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[00:14:16] <axisys> OT: looking for a AA.com discount code *sigh*
[00:14:18] <axisys> cheap me
[00:15:18] <axisys> travelling to country panama next month
[00:21:22] <Error_404> escaping the feds?
[00:21:44] <axisys> Error_404: u must be kidn right?
[00:21:55] <Error_404> obviously
[00:22:22] <axisys> so anyone has a promo/discount code for AA.com?
[00:22:51] <jamesd_> alcoholics anonymous, just go to a meeting... i think they are still free..
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[00:23:24] <g4lt-U60> jamesd_, no, you still have to bring donuts
[00:24:02] <jamesd_> oh.. i've never been, i let defer to the experts
[00:24:44] <Error_404> heh
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[00:32:52] <quasi> jamesd_: an AA meeting might be a good place to pick up tips on the good "watering holes" in town ;)
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[00:34:27] <jamesd_> nah i'll just invite my sister-in-law to stay after a week she will have bottles hid all over the house and in the backyard and garage, no need to leave the house, just look behind things and find another bottle.. yes she has a major problem, but she refuses help.
[00:35:54] <quasi> that's tough
[00:37:01] <jamesd_> yeah she is currently sitting for a year, because she refused to get help after attacking a relative.
[00:37:25] <moazamraja> sitting?
[00:37:34] <jamesd_> maybe she will sober long enough to quit. but who knows... she has sat before for 6 months no help...  sitting == time in jail
[00:37:49] <moazamraja> oh whoa!
[00:49:20] <sommerfeld> yike.
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[01:13:13] <stevel> what happened to onbot?
[01:21:46] <alanc> [11:24] <-- onbot has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[01:22:47] <Tpenta> oh dear
[01:34:50] <stevel> too bad. the day when everyone is flooding the gate to get their putbacks in now that onnv_56 is open, and onbot croaks :)
[01:36:45] <alanc> who owns onbot?
[01:37:13] <Error_404> you can't *own* onbot man
[01:37:18] <Error_404> it belongs to everyone
[01:37:27] <stevel> johnlev
[01:37:38] * stevel didn't realise #opensolaris was socialist
[01:38:25] <alanc> are they going to publish the onnv_56 putback limitations to the community?
[01:38:35] <richlowe> I'd highly doubt it.
[01:38:56] <alanc> it's not as bad as 55 was
[01:38:59] <richlowe> I was actually wondering if there'd be a "restrictions lifted" and/or "changed" post.
[01:39:02] <richlowe> there appears to be neither.
[01:39:34] <alanc> mark nelson sent out mail to onnv-gate this morning - I would have figured it would appear on the onnv community headsup page, but I don't see it yet
[01:39:44] <richlowe> I'm not sure if/when that runs.
[01:41:05] <alanc> hmm, it's not on the internal ON headsup archive page either
[01:41:41] <richlowe> They get done at the same time, I think (at least the script in ongk updates both for things it's involved in).
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[01:42:06] <stevel> it wasn't a flag day, so the external page won't get updated
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[01:42:14] <richlowe> That isn't true.
[01:42:25] <richlowe> it has archived content which includes previous non-flag headsups.
[01:43:41] <richlowe> unless it got adjusted, I guess.
[01:43:44] <richlowe> if it did, it shouldn't have. :)
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[01:50:08] <Kmays> Moo...
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[02:03:47] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[02:04:00] <dlg> damnit, i totally fried my solaris box
[02:04:27] <edwardocallaghan> Hi dig
[02:04:36] <edwardocallaghan> You still around here?
[02:04:54] <dlg> im waiting for the community to help me
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[02:05:16] <edwardocallaghan> I still got to figure out how to mod a PC keyboard to work with a Ultra 10
[02:05:28] <edwardocallaghan> Its a 8pin mini din
[02:05:45] <dlg> that wont work
[02:05:54] <dlg> you need a sun keyboard
[02:05:56] <boyd> It's a serial connection. I think you need a microcontroller or similar
[02:06:00] <edwardocallaghan> Why not?
[02:06:29] <edwardocallaghan> Oh well if I can find something out about the protocol I could program a pic to do it ;)
[02:06:45] <aFlag> hello. I often read stuff like this "The goal of the OpenSolaris project is to make as much of the source for the Solaris OS available as possible. If and when possible, binary-only components will be made available in source form.". What are the problems for sun to release its own code on a different license?
[02:06:59] <boyd> I've seen schematics on the net... but I think they may have been the other way
[02:07:16] <boyd> boyd: It's standard rs-232 signalling IIRC
[02:07:27] * boyd wonders why he's talking to himself
[02:08:06] <boyd> aFlag: Not all the code is written by Sun. Some is by third parties, from whome they need to get permission
[02:08:09] <Error_404> aFlag: not owning some of it
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[02:08:17] <boyd> s/whome/whom/
[02:08:29] <aFlag> oh I see, the same thing happens to java?
[02:08:35] <boyd> ... and some will not give permission
[02:08:48] <boyd> aFlag: I think Java is pretty much all sun...
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[02:08:52] <boyd> I may be wrong
[02:09:02] <Tpenta> aFlag: the problem being that the different license needs to be compatible with all of the bits that we use to make open solaris, many have problems with the fact that we link with binary objects that we cannot provide the source to due to contractual obligations
[02:09:09] <edwardocallaghan> So is Java GPL now?
[02:09:15] <Tpenta> yes
[02:09:18] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: yes
[02:09:19] <Tpenta> v2
[02:09:26] <edwardocallaghan> OK thanks
[02:09:31] <edwardocallaghan> Just confirming
[02:09:42] <boyd> There is no more recent GPL than v2 anyway at the moment
[02:09:54] <Error_404> I thought of putting together a source-only distro of opensolaris
[02:09:59] <edwardocallaghan> v3 has problem I hear
[02:10:00] <aFlag> there's part of java that isn't gpl yet, isn't there?
[02:10:03] <Error_404> use openbsd's stuff when needed
[02:10:08] <Error_404> ( eg, sed )
[02:10:18] 
[02:10:31] <Error_404> didn't he stop somewhere around build 30?
[02:10:32] <Tpenta> I believe so
[02:10:43] <boyd> aFlag: There is lawyerly diligence to pass
[02:11:01] <aFlag> Error_404: what's the name of that project?
[02:11:05] <Error_404> schililx
[02:11:08] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: v3 has problems or not depending on who you ask
[02:11:10] <Error_404> err, schillix
[02:11:21] <edwardocallaghan> So anyone know lots on this keyboard problem ?
[02:11:32] <edwardocallaghan> I don't like law, my sistor does that
[02:11:36] <Tpenta> the main "problem" with v3 is that it does not yet exist, so it's not reasonable to expect *anyone* to commit to using it
[02:11:38] <edwardocallaghan> I don't like my sistor
[02:11:54] <edwardocallaghan> I wonder if it has something to do with it ?
[02:11:55] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: How long before you're in aus? I can get a sun kb and hold onto it for you
[02:12:09] <boyd> Tpenta: I think the FSF are committed :)
[02:12:11] <edwardocallaghan> Oh cool thanks
[02:12:21] <Tpenta> or should be?
[02:12:33] <edwardocallaghan> I need to get my VISA done, need to get a x-ray
[02:12:35] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: but it seems a long way to ship it right now :)
[02:12:50] <edwardocallaghan> Sure, that's great thanks
[02:13:00] <alanc> could just get a PCI USB card for the U10 and use a USB kbd
[02:13:11] <boyd> Won't help with OBP, will it?
[02:13:20] <alanc> don't remember
[02:13:38] <edwardocallaghan> Although I am still wondering how to do it because I got two Ultra 10's one for a mate who want to use it as a webserver
[02:13:59] <edwardocallaghan> But he is starting out with unix/linux from windows
[02:13:59] <boyd> For a webserver does he really need a gui console?
[02:14:06] <alanc> if you're just going to use as a webserver, use the serial port for console
[02:14:26] <edwardocallaghan> Yes, I would not he will would find it too hard
[02:14:55] <boyd> young folks these days....
[02:15:09] <edwardocallaghan> He wants X to start learning however much I try to convince
[02:15:26] <edwardocallaghan> He is 46 and I am 19 and I am teaching him ?!
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[02:15:50] <boyd> old folks these days..... :)
[02:15:57] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[02:16:25] <edwardocallaghan> Now where's that on button?
[02:17:41] <boyd> grr... is there an option to add_install_server to skip the disk space verification?
[02:17:58] <boyd> err.. setup_install_server
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[02:25:11] <dlg> when are they going to make the solaris install 15 minutes long?
[02:25:36] <edwardocallaghan> lol why is it so slow?
[02:25:39] <alanc> when everyone buys 200x DVD drivers
[02:25:46] <edwardocallaghan> I really don't get it?
[02:26:16] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: pkg tools are a bit slow i think
[02:26:22] <dlg> i dunno really
[02:26:45] <edwardocallaghan> It's like it complies the OS though !?
[02:26:58] <Tpenta> we were looking at replacing teh flat file that is the pkg database with an sql database before we released s10, but getting close to release time, it was causing problems still so we went back
[02:27:05] <dlg> im not running an old alpha here
[02:28:15] <alanc> it only takes about 30 minutes if you're installing from a netinstall server over gigabit ethernet to a fast disk on a modern machine
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[02:28:41] <dlg> that would be nice
[02:28:47] <dlg> pity i dont have a net install machine
[02:29:15] <edwardocallaghan> SQL would be cool no?
[02:29:19] <dlg> nope
[02:30:13] <edwardocallaghan> ok
[02:30:15] <edwardocallaghan> .
[02:30:48] <edwardocallaghan> What are peoples fav serial terminal ?
[02:30:58] <dlg> cu
[02:31:07] <jamesd_> minicom
[02:31:09] <edwardocallaghan> See you later
[02:31:28] <dlg> uhm... cu is a program i use to talk on serial lines
[02:31:43] <edwardocallaghan> You like minicom ok I am think ok then
[02:31:51] <edwardocallaghan> I was joking dig
[02:31:56] <edwardocallaghan> Bad joke
[02:32:09] <dlg> explain it to me
[02:32:47] <edwardocallaghan> Oh
[02:32:50] <edwardocallaghan> God
[02:32:52] <edwardocallaghan> .
[02:33:01] <dlg> :D :D
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[02:40:45] <hile_> i use tip
[02:40:50] <hile_> or Zterm on my mac
[02:40:55] <hile_> or just plug things into my conserver
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[02:46:13] <hell``> jamesd_, minicom? such a linux choice :)
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[02:47:31] <edwardocallaghan> I am on Linux :(
[02:47:44] *** detriment is now known as movement
[02:47:55] <edwardocallaghan> Until I can buy my new Ultra
[02:50:28] <dlg> huggz
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[02:52:52] <nachox> guys, i have a little problem with the update manager, last night i stopped it when it was downloading the updates and now it thinks it installed them, is there a way to reset that? i know it didnt install anything
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[03:13:40] <nachox> hmm, damn patchadd :)
[03:14:15] <edwardocallaghan> don't know the answer sorry mate
[03:14:24] <edwardocallaghan> pkg_remove ?
[03:14:28] <edwardocallaghan> only a clue
[03:14:39] <edwardocallaghan> man pkg
[03:14:52] <edwardocallaghan> minicom is gay
[03:15:11] <edwardocallaghan> I am trying to just use the AT command ?
[03:15:32] <delewis> minicom is bloated
[03:15:36] <delewis> I do not know why it is recommended
[03:15:41] <delewis> it contains bloat for modems
[03:16:08] <edwardocallaghan> What should I install on Linux then?
[03:16:23] <richlowe> this'd be the wrong time to mention I often use screen for that stuff, right? ;)
[03:16:23] <delewis> do you have 'tip' or 'cu'?
[03:16:28] <richlowe> I mean, if you consider minicom bloat for it...
[03:16:45] <delewis> google around for taylor-uucp if you do not
[03:17:28] <dwc-> AT commands? you're using modems?
[03:18:13] <delewis> hey, modems are still popular :-)
[03:18:18] <dwc-> could always just use bash <> /dev/cua0 or whatever it is
[03:18:24] <delewis> every pSeries, iSeries, and zSeries sold comes with a complementary modem :-)
[03:18:45] <dwc-> or I guess it'd be bash-whatever$ cat <> /dev/cua0
[03:18:58] <edwardocallaghan> :o
[03:19:09] <edwardocallaghan> got uucp thanks
[03:19:16] <edwardocallaghan> I'll give it a try
[03:19:19] <delewis> cu or tip should be included
[03:19:59] <edwardocallaghan> system?
[03:20:07] <edwardocallaghan> /dev/ttyS0 ?
[03:20:21] <delewis> you sort of have to define that
[03:20:24] <delewis> look in the documentation
[03:20:33] <delewis> there's a file (/etc/dialers or something, IIRC)
[03:20:48] <delewis> in Solaris, 'hardwire' is already defined to use /dev/term/b or whatever.
[03:20:59] <delewis> with cu, you don't have to do this, though.
[03:21:12] <delewis> you can simply specify a 'line' -- in your case ttyS0
[03:21:52] <boyd> I normally do tip -9600 /dev/term/a
[03:22:23] <edwardocallaghan> tip's not included
[03:22:36] <edwardocallaghan> Linux is poo remember with its stupid RPMs
[03:22:40] <delewis> so, you're using cu?
[03:22:52] <edwardocallaghan> indeed
[03:22:55] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, RPMs aren't that bad from the user perspective.
[03:23:18] <delewis> analogous to SVR4 packaging
[03:23:23] <delewis> very roughly, anyway.
[03:23:38] <boyd> .. and yet you say they're not that bad?
[03:23:46] * boyd ducks
[03:23:53] <delewis> boyd, I like SVR4 packaging :-)
[03:23:55] <delewis> very simple
[03:23:58] <edwardocallaghan> Ture but then are slow and you don't want a powercut though one
[03:24:05] <delewis> but then again, I'm masochistic like that, I suppose.
[03:24:14] <boyd> Simple in the "he is a bit simple" sense?
[03:24:15] <edwardocallaghan> What do you guys think of Gentoo?
[03:24:29] * delewis gets his stick out
[03:24:34] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: unsupportable
[03:24:35] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, which version do you want?
[03:24:48] <delewis> I could give you the 'diplomatic' opinion
[03:24:55] <edp> edwardocallaghan, i like it for its flexibility for my laptop, but it definitely is not at all consistent
[03:24:55] <delewis> or the 'Gentoo is a toy' one
[03:25:13] <boyd> What about the "Gentoo is for Ricers" one?
[03:25:26] <delewis> boyd, that falls under the 'toy' one :-)
[03:26:00] <edp> don't use Gentoo just because they claim it's faster though since it's not
[03:26:22] <delewis> edp, I wouldn't be surprised that if the careless optimization actually hurts performance.
[03:26:37] <delewis> let alone the install/deployment time involved
[03:26:46] <edp> the deployment time is horrible
[03:27:21] <edp> though if you do chose to use it for a server at least you don't need to install X, gnome/kde, etc.
[03:27:26] <jbk> i always like http://funroll-loops.org :)
[03:27:55] <delewis> I despise systems that don't have well-defined install sets.
[03:28:04] <edp> though they only have 2 or so releases a year so right after you install it from the CD you get to spend 4 hours recompiling stuff
[03:28:09] <delewis> you usually end up with an unusable system
[03:28:24] <delewis> and have to jump through hoops at later points when you figure out 'Oh yeah, I need this.'
[03:28:30] <edwardocallaghan> and Slackware?
[03:28:37] <delewis> of course, most ricers are disillusioned by this
[03:28:46] <delewis> and think they're disk space is far more optimized and light-weight.
[03:28:57] <delewis> this is nothing but a Windows mindset.
[03:29:18] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, Slackware is one of the few Linux distributions that I 'like' (when it comes to Linux distributions, anyway)
[03:29:25] <delewis> package management is very simple.
[03:29:29] <delewis> and the install sets are well-defined.
[03:29:32] <boyd> Wasn't there an old joke about Firefox 2.0 being released and Gentoo users being the first to be able to download it... and the last to be able to run it
[03:29:35] <edwardocallaghan> Although Gentoo is running faster (40 odd %) on a old laptop
[03:29:58] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I like Slackware its old for a reason
[03:30:05] <boyd> jbk: Yeah, me too... seems to be broken for me ATM
[03:30:35] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: what kind of crap statement is that?
[03:30:39] <dlg> 40% faster? at doing what?
[03:30:44] <delewis> I still don't like the fact that Slackware transitioned to KDE
[03:30:45] <dlg> scrolling text for no reason?
[03:30:50] <edp> gentoo isn't 40% faster
[03:30:51] <delewis> I liked it far better when it included Gnome.
[03:30:57] <AbeFroman> i LOVE scrolling text
[03:31:04] <delewis> it might be 40% faster because of senseless optimization
[03:31:08] <edwardocallaghan> I am not talking about the kernel
[03:31:12] <dlg> delewis: no way
[03:31:14] <edp> delewis, it includes gnome after you spend 20 hours compiling it's 300 packages on a dual core cpu
[03:31:21] <edwardocallaghan> I said Gentoo not Linux
[03:31:21] <delewis> optimization that rounds off floating-point calculations, etc.
[03:31:35] <delewis> of course, that's only on programs that do floating-point
[03:31:42] <delewis> and that's horrendous optimization if not used properly
[03:31:47] <delewis> *cough* -fast *cough*
[03:31:48] <edwardocallaghan> Gnome is for gardens
[03:32:15] <edwardocallaghan> NetBSD does a good job in my mind
[03:32:26] <dlg> hahaha
[03:32:48] <nachox> found a few google hits about my problem, the comments are "it's not funny" hehe
[03:33:15] <edwardocallaghan> But I had to get a friend a easy to use Desktop and was force to put Gentoo on his junk Celeron with 128mb ram
[03:33:16] * delewis is currently reading Maurice Bach's "Design of the UNIX Operating System"
[03:33:17] <delewis> classic.
[03:33:42] <edwardocallaghan> Oh that's on my Amazon wish list
[03:33:54] <delewis> it's a worthy follow-up of Tanenbaum
[03:34:55] <delewis> and would probably be adequate to jump into Solaris Internals
[03:35:02] <nachox> ohh, well, i'll deal with this later
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[03:35:15] <dlg> delewis: you're reading out of curiousity or because you want to do something specific?
[03:35:26] <edwardocallaghan> I wish I could have got Solaris to run better on that computer
[03:35:31] <delewis> dlg, curiousity.
[03:35:35] <dlg> nod
[03:35:36] <edwardocallaghan> 40% at Blender by the way
[03:36:13] * boyd is unable to parse that sentence
[03:36:40] <delewis> Error: parse error
[03:37:12] <delewis> or if you're in AIX: Error: (some obscure error code) parse error
[03:37:15] <delewis> god, I hate that.
[03:37:32] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[03:37:47] <delewis> sometimes I think they don't distinguish between developer builds and production builds.
[03:38:27] <delewis> I have similar annoyances with Oracle
[03:38:33] <delewis> just tell me what the damn error is
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[03:39:30] <boyd> Isn't the idea that you can then look up the error code somewhere and be given another copy of the error message?
[03:39:33] <pdkl> quick question, any reason why kdmconfig is selecting Xsun instead of Xorg though i tell kdmconfig to use Xorg?
[03:39:36] <jbk> heh
[03:39:45] <delewis> boyd, yes, but that's still annoying
[03:39:51] <delewis> if anything, they could give you a simple, terse error message
[03:39:55] <jbk> what? ORA-454578876543 isn't intuitive?
[03:40:00] <delewis> and have you refer to documentation for something more specific
[03:40:07] <boyd> I agree that in this day and age there is little reason to not just include the error text
[03:40:16] <delewis> but no, they just spit out a string of characters that you're just supposed to intuitively know.
[03:40:47] <boyd> jbk: It's no worse than /dev/dsk/c3t0500182749a8f697e8s6e9f7d0s0
[03:40:59] <delewis> you're not an Oracle DBA if you can't recite at least 50-60 error codes :-)
[03:41:00] <dlg> that makes perfect sense
[03:41:06] <delewis> boyd, that does make sense, though.
[03:41:13] <delewis> ORA-1000 does not.
[03:41:21] <jbk> the taget == wwn
[03:41:26] <jbk> er target
[03:41:29] <delewis> exactly.
[03:41:38] <delewis> and it makes it *so* easy to just walk over to your disks and find the target.
[03:41:55] * delewis wonders why some drivers mask the WWN and others don't
[03:41:56] <boyd> You are not all being reasonable.. the target number is as meaningless to a human as the oracle error number
[03:42:01] <delewis> on my A5200, I don't see the WWN.
[03:42:08] <boyd> FCAL
[03:42:23] <delewis> boyd, A5200 is FC
[03:42:27] <delewis> and fabric-aware at that.
[03:42:28] <dlg> delewis: i thought the spuds on sun disks listed their wwn
[03:42:33] <delewis> dlg, they do
[03:42:38] <dlg> so...
[03:42:39] <delewis> but that's not the point
[03:42:48] <boyd> delewis: Are you sure? I didn't think my A5200 was
[03:42:53] <delewis> some drivers mask the WWN in the device noede name and others do not
[03:43:00] <delewis> boyd, that's the case with mine
[03:43:15] <boyd> Maybe it's controller board specific
[03:43:38] <delewis>  vxdisk list
[03:43:38] <delewis> DEVICE       TYPE            DISK         GROUP        STATUS
[03:43:38] <delewis> c0t0d0s2     auto:none       -            -            online invalid
[03:43:38] <delewis> c2t37d0s2    auto:cdsdisk    rootdg07     rootdg       online
[03:43:38] <delewis> c2t38d0s2    auto:cdsdisk    rootdg08     rootdg       online
[03:43:39] <delewis> ...
[03:43:49] <delewis> c2t37 and c2t38 are in the A5200
[03:44:01] <delewis> and it progresses all the way to c2t50-something
[03:44:06] <delewis> 59
[03:44:07] <boyd> I don't see how that shows fabric vs FCAL
[03:44:14] <jbk> is there a fabric in between?
[03:44:19] <delewis> jbk, no
[03:44:25] * boyd wonders if http://funroll-loops.org/ is down because it runs gentoo
[03:44:40] <delewis> boyd, that wasn't mean to illustrate. I know for a fact, though, that I can plug the A5200 into my Silkworm and the drives are there.
[03:45:10] <delewis> this forces me to conclude that the HBAs on the A5200 are fabric aware, otherwise, I'd have to have a license on my Silkworm to see the drives.
[03:45:31] <delewis> right now, though, I just have the A5200 direct-attached.
[03:45:34] <boyd> Hmm.. news to me
[03:46:25] <delewis> likewise, my Silkworm won't see socal HBAs
[03:46:28] <delewis> which aren't fabric-aware
[03:46:41] <delewis> regardless, maybe I have to have the A5200 on a fabric for the WWNs to appear as targets
[03:47:17] <dlg> are the disks attached with ssd or sd?
[03:47:18] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:yes
[03:47:25] <edwardocallaghan> I did not say I liked it
[03:47:36] <delewis> dlg, ssd
[03:47:43] <dlg> how strange
[03:48:01] <delewis> Dec 12 20:04:09 laplace scsi: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING: /sbus@1f,0/SUNW,socal@0,0/sf@1,0/ssd@w22000004cf0a104f,0 (ssd20):
[03:48:06] <delewis> maybe its a socal thing.
[03:48:07] <edwardocallaghan> But the fact remains that something was loading the Solaris kernel down, probley gnome
[03:48:32] * dlg cough
[03:48:43] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, don't let gman hear you :-)
[03:48:55] * delewis thinks ksh93 is loading down his system
[03:48:56] <delewis> :-)
[03:49:12] <edwardocallaghan> who is gman?
[03:49:26] <boyd> delewis: lol
[03:49:28] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, one of the guys on the JDS development team.
[03:49:33] <McBofh> edwardocallaghan: a Sun person who does JDS / gnomish stuff
[03:49:50] <edwardocallaghan> Oh rock on flux box
[03:50:08] <boyd> McBofh: Hi, whatdaya know about the A5200?
[03:50:17] <edwardocallaghan> But it was a guy trying to move away from windows who had a very old laptop
[03:50:32] <edwardocallaghan> and Solaris was, sorry to say slow
[03:50:49] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, how much memory did the system have?
[03:50:50] <edwardocallaghan> Gentoo was much faster, so I hate to use it
[03:51:09] <edwardocallaghan> Not much at all 128 so gnome would have needed much more
[03:51:12] <McBofh> boyd: it's heavy :)
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[03:51:15] <McBofh> what's the problem with it?
[03:51:17] <delewis> yes, it is.
[03:51:26] <delewis> I about broke my back trying to get it into my office
[03:51:33] <delewis> still doesn't beat an E4500 :-)
[03:52:23] <McBofh> only if you drop one onto the other
[03:52:42] <delewis> heh, that's how I have mine now.
[03:53:07] <jbk> heh..
[03:53:21] <jbk> i remember having to lift an a5200 up to set it ontop of a 5500
[03:53:24] <jbk> not fun
[03:53:31] <delewis> ugh.
[03:53:40] <delewis> I can barely lift it on top of my E4500 that's sitting on the floor
[03:53:41] <jbk> since it wouldn't fit inside it
[03:53:44] <delewis> even without disks its still heavy as hell.
[03:54:03] <jbk> i still don't know how my one coworker used to rackmount E450s by himself, with no jacks
[03:54:14] <delewis> you'd think removing 22 disks that probably way 2-3Lbs each would make a difference, but no.
[03:54:33] <delewis> s/way/weigh/
[03:55:38] <boyd> McBofh: Sorry... I was called away... I could have sworn it was FCAL only.. delewis swears it'll do fabric.. I wonder if there are different controller boards
[03:55:55] <delewis> boyd, quite possible, I think
[03:55:58] <delewis> my A5200 is one of the later ones
[03:56:02] <delewis> ~ 2002-2003, IIRC.
[03:56:26] <delewis> I was pretty surprised to find it out myself, because I was under the impression that A5200s used socals, as well.
[03:57:53] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Any news on a site?
[03:58:10] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Sorry?
[03:58:23] <McBofh> delewis: socal is the sbus controller interface
[03:59:14] <delewis> McBofh, yes, and I wish mpxio supported them :-(
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[03:59:25] <delewis> means I have to round up a PCI IO board for my E4500.
[03:59:25] <McBofh> you'll be wishing until the cows come home
[03:59:47] <edwardocallaghan> You said you maybe able to get me a site up for a package UI manager ?
[03:59:58] <delewis> McBofh, oh, come on. Surely, Sun has gotten customer requests for mpxio support for a 10-year-old HBA.
[04:00:02] <delewis> :-)
[04:00:43] <McBofh> delewis: yes, of course they have
[04:01:07] <McBofh> and the response has almost always been along the lines of "here's a nice salesrep to help you upgrade your kit to something that's supported"
[04:01:32] <edwardocallaghan> I emailed your right?
[04:01:33] <delewis> McBofh, is the fact that socal isn't fabric-aware the reason there's no mpxio support for it?
[04:01:42] <edwardocallaghan> Or have I lost my mind?
[04:01:49] <delewis> or are there other architectural reasons, or is it just lack of interest?
[04:02:20] <edwardocallaghan> I did see cu -l /dev/ttyS0 and its says its connected and that's it
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[04:08:51] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Oh.. I just worked it out... I think you may be thinking of jamesd_ or dclarke
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[04:15:46] * McBofh concalls
[04:16:13] <McBofh> delewis: no, it's probably more due to the effort involved in getting it to work
[04:16:26] <McBofh> edwardocallaghan: nah, you've lost your mind :)
[04:16:30] * McBofh cares and shares....
[04:18:35] * edp just discovered that the x4500 requires 220 VAC
[04:19:42] <delewis> edp, I can't say that's surprising, really.
[04:20:00] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke that's it
[04:20:01] <delewis> though, my A5200 with 22 drives still only uses 110.
[04:20:02] <edp> no, it's not, i guess i just assumed it would run on 120
[04:20:03] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry
[04:20:13] <edwardocallaghan> Yes your right I lost my mind
[04:20:25] <edwardocallaghan> How did you know?
[04:20:45] <edp> just means we'd need electrical run and get new battery backups
[04:21:34] <McBofh> edwardocallaghan: the fact that you asked the question is proof enough
[04:21:47] <McBofh> edwardocallaghan: unless you can show me a picture of it, I assume you lost it long ago :)
[04:21:50] <McBofh> same goes for me
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[04:23:40] <dlg> two hour installs :(
[04:26:24] <edwardocallaghan> Now where's that picture ...
[04:27:08] <McBofh> I've got an xray of my spine.... my wife was impressed :)
[04:27:21] <edwardocallaghan> Hmmm
[04:28:02] <Doc> that you had one?
[04:28:14] <McBofh> Doc: exactly
[04:28:21] <McBofh> it was taken after a monitor fell on me in the lab
[04:28:40] <Doc> ahh.. yess... that incident
[04:28:56] <Doc> you got us locked out of the lab for months because of that
[04:29:17] <dlg> at uq?
[04:29:20] <McBofh> :(
[04:29:22] <McBofh> dlg: no
[04:29:35] <dlg> sounds like something uq would do
[04:30:05] <edwardocallaghan> What happen?
[04:30:19] <edwardocallaghan> I trust it was not a plastic TFT then :D
[04:30:23] <McBofh> heh ... no
[04:30:28] <McBofh> 21" Sun monitor
[04:30:43] <McBofh> didn't fall very far - about 1/2 metre
[04:31:20] <McBofh> somebody had left it perched perilously and I didn't notice it, bent down to work on something else , bumped the cabinet and it fell on me
[04:32:19] <edwardocallaghan> Oh sorry about that
[04:32:31] <edwardocallaghan> Blam Sony
[04:33:05] <McBofh> nah, I blamed the intern :|
[04:33:33] <dlg> McBofh: you were in #humbug on irc.uq at one point werent you?
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[04:34:19] <McBofh> dlg: I'm still there now
[04:34:27] <dlg> im not on their server though
[04:34:48] <McBofh> migrated to oftc, but I still connect to irc.humbug.org.au which redirects
[04:35:19] <dlg> ah, i see
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[04:38:39] <edwardocallaghan> Gaim connects to more then one for me
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[04:46:46] <aFlag> hello, would someone know of a reliable article comparing opensolaris' scalability and performance against other systems?
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[04:50:49] <aFlag> another thing. Would someone explain me this portion of the CDDL? "(b) under Patent Claims infringed by the making, using or selling of Original Software, to make, have made, use, practice, sell, and offer for sale, and/or otherwise dispose of the Original Software (or portions thereof)." (part 2.1). I didn't really understand what it means.
[04:58:12] <edwardocallaghan> Solaris/OpenBSD as a server OS is a hard one
[04:58:21] <edwardocallaghan> For what/ a server?
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[04:59:03] <boyd> Not when it comes to scalability. What is the largest box that OpenBSD runs on? How well does it scale to multi-CPUs
[04:59:06] <boyd> ?
[04:59:15] <dlg> solaris kicks openbsds arse for scalability
[04:59:32] <boyd> That's my point
[04:59:56] <dlg> depends on what you're doing though
[05:00:09] <dlg> openbsd has some stuff that lets you scale horizontally in cool ways
[05:00:18] <dlg> on big iron solaris is king though
[05:00:34] <edwardocallaghan> Ture to all of the above
[05:00:48] <edwardocallaghan> I did say "For What"
[05:01:07] <boyd> dlg: Out of interest, what is there that helps the horiz scaling?
[05:01:24] <dlg> carp
[05:01:34] <dlg> it lets machines pick up the slack of a failed host very easily
[05:01:37] <boyd> Isn't that for router redundancy only?
[05:01:54] <dlg> no, i know people using it to do failover of web services and mail and things like that
[05:02:05] <syphilis> openbsd carp has been ported to most unixes, afaik.  does openbsd do something special with it?
[05:02:30] <dlg> if by ported you mean they all use some insane userland toy to do the same job and try to take over addresses, sure
[05:02:38] <dlg> it feels a lot better and easier in openbsd
[05:04:10] <aFlag> I'm not a real experts on systems. I'm justing trying to understand what's out there and what they're good at.
[05:04:30] <dlg> aFlag: depends on what you're trying to do
[05:05:03] <dlg> eg, i would use openbsd on a lot of network infrastructure
[05:05:19] <dlg> like web, mail, dns, firewalls, and little things like that
[05:05:34] <aFlag> hum
[05:05:41] <aFlag> why is it so good on it?
[05:05:44] <dlg> for "real" tasks like dbs and fileserving i would go with solaris
[05:06:03] <dlg> are you asking why i think openbsd is good at that stuff?
[05:06:08] <aFlag> yes
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[05:06:29] <dlg> uhm...
[05:06:38] <dlg> cos i can get a machine up and running in 20 minutes
[05:06:55] <dlg> and its trivial to get those services working on openbsd
[05:07:11] <dlg> id pick solaris for the big loads simply because it has the scalability
[05:07:28] <dlg> please note im horribly biased
[05:08:43] <aFlag> hum, if I wanted something I could install fast and get things running I'd probably go with linux :P
[05:08:55] <dlg> id call you a masochist
[05:08:57] <aFlag> because it's the one I'm most used to work with
[05:09:02] <dlg> but like i said, im biased :)
[05:09:28] <mlh> getting dns,web,firewalls is easy on *bsd,linux, arse on solaris
[05:09:53] <aFlag> well, I don't really have much experience setting up servers, but linux works quite nice as my desktop :)
[05:10:02] <aFlag> mlh: why is it hard to do on solaris?
[05:10:20] <dlg> you asked about servers though didnt you?
[05:10:21] <mlh> doesn't come with apache (or didn't)
[05:10:31] <aFlag> dlg: yes
[05:10:36] <aFlag> I'm trying to study about that
[05:10:49] <mlh> and then to get updates and modules and stuff it's still way more painful under solaris
[05:11:10] <edwardocallaghan> OpenBSD is secure and can run on old systems so makes great firewalls
[05:11:39] <mlh> yup, that's what I understand, but it's been years since I ran openbsd.
[05:12:17] <edwardocallaghan> For a webserver maybe OpenBSD still ?
[05:12:26] <dlg> old/slow hardware isnt that great at doing high pps
[05:12:34] <mlh> I doubt that openbsd is anymore secure than say, fedora5 or 6 with it's selinux policies and various security add-ons
[05:12:46] <dlg> mlh: you have got to be kidding
[05:12:52] <edwardocallaghan> Not true
[05:13:04] <edwardocallaghan> Your got to be joking
[05:13:35] <edwardocallaghan> I seen Fedora 6 get own in 36min as a default install
[05:13:38] <mlh> absoloutely not
[05:13:54] <mlh> cite?
[05:13:57] <mlh> details?
[05:14:05] <dlg> its an attitude thing
[05:14:14] <dlg> lets just say that glibc has 75 bugs in it
[05:14:24] <dlg> why are they adding code around glibc to insulate the system from its bugs
[05:14:28] <dlg> rather than just fix glibc?
[05:15:24] <dlg> personally i think selinux is less about security and more about auditability
[05:15:43] <edp> the main reason for the other security addons is so that when an exploit is found it ends up just causing crashes instead of being remotely exploitable
[05:16:28] <aFlag> edp: are you talking about selinux or openbsd?
[05:16:33] <edp> now for existing exploits, adding extra security software to work around their problems is no excuse
[05:16:38] <dlg> edp: which is something i think vanilla unix can provide without extra software layers
[05:16:54] <edp> i'm just talking generally about security addons
[05:17:00] <mlh> if apache is prevented from running exec and can't exec it's stack or ... it sharply reduces the chance of a hack
[05:17:23] <edp> grsecurity.net project is one that adds a number of features to help soften the blow of an exploit
[05:17:26] <edwardocallaghan> On a default install of Fedora, SSHd is running and allows root login's !!! :O
[05:17:33] <edwardocallaghan> A big NO NO!
[05:17:37] <mlh> edwardocallaghan: are you sure
[05:17:44] <edwardocallaghan> Yes 100%
[05:17:57] <aFlag> I understand openbsd checksums the memory somehow, isn't it right? Does it actually prevents attacks or it's benefits are not that great?
[05:18:28] <edwardocallaghan> OpenBSD also encrypts your SWAP if you like
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[05:19:01] <mlh> edwardocallaghan: yeah ya right.
[05:19:04] <dlg> aFlag: no, we do a few things with memory
[05:19:05] <edp> aFlag, could be.. gcc has addons (maybe even the default now) that place random numbers at the end of buffers and then verifies they are still there at the end of the routine to help prevent buffer overflows
[05:19:24] <dlg> ranging from the propolice/ssp stuff edp just mentioned
[05:19:29] <edp> if the magic ending has changed then it just kills the process instead of allowing a potential exploit
[05:19:41] <dlg> to randomising stack offsets, allocations and library locations
[05:20:01] <edp> Vista is actually adding the ssp stuff too, as well as memory randomisations and a number of other open source techniques
[05:20:26] <edwardocallaghan> What a steal
[05:20:34] <edwardocallaghan> No its true
[05:20:35] <edp> yes, so much for MS innovation
[05:21:01] <edwardocallaghan> Macs can encrypt your SWAP as well
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[05:23:04] <edwardocallaghan> By default OpenBSD 4.0 encryptes the swap partition
[05:23:23] <Error_404> that's because Theo cares about doing things right & secure
[05:23:53] <whaq> Sounds like a pretty big overhead..
[05:24:01] <dlg> whaq: strangely it isnt
[05:24:10] <dlg> you spend more time waiting for disks than for the cpu to do its thing
[05:24:11] <Error_404> on a modern CPU it's unnoticalbe
[05:24:26] <edwardocallaghan> Yes indeed
[05:24:29] <Error_404> look at it this way, Sun's ZFS compresses everything
[05:24:35] <edwardocallaghan> People always think CPU
[05:24:36] <whaq> on the fly checksumming, I'm convinced after looking at zfs.. but, encyption?
[05:24:43] <syphilis> error: optionally compresses things
[05:24:50] <Error_404> (you can turn off compression) in 99% of the cases it's faster
[05:24:55] <Error_404> less to write to the disk = less IO
[05:24:58] <whaq> hmm..
[05:25:00] <Error_404> cpu's are fasts... disks are slow
[05:25:15] <edwardocallaghan> SAS is the way to go
[05:25:18] <Error_404> despite checksumming & compressing things, zfs is as fast as reiser4
[05:25:18] <whaq> ok
[05:25:27] <Error_404> in some cases faster
[05:25:37] <edwardocallaghan> I hate reiser
[05:25:38] <edp> and has a zillion more features
[05:25:42] <whaq> btw, how's zfs  compression? how's your experience with it?
[05:25:53] <whaq> i love zfs
[05:25:56] <Error_404> CPU's have been faster than anyone needs for quite a while now
[05:26:09] <edwardocallaghan> Did yo hear what happen to Mr. Reiser ?
[05:26:26] <Error_404> no, but I heard about his wife
[05:26:27] <whaq> Error_404, yeah. And they're multiplyinglike rabbits  nowadays.
[05:26:30] <edwardocallaghan> XFS is better I think
[05:26:30] <edp> whaq, i always compression unless it's a filesystem that i know will not compress at all (e.g. media files)
[05:27:11] <edp> i usually don't get overly spectacular compression ratios but even a ratio of 1.1 saves a good amount of disk space
[05:27:14] <whaq> edp, how much compression do you get on non-media files?
[05:27:27] <edwardocallaghan> Waitting for my disks in the post for my cheap ZFS RAID
[05:27:29] <aFlag> hum, compressing and checksuming things on disk I'd expect to not change much speed, but doing so on memory, I'd suspect that it'd noticiable reduce the performance
[05:27:42] <whaq> yeah not bad. u get  extra space practically for nothing..
[05:27:56] <Error_404> aFlag: it does it in memory before it writes to disk
[05:28:16] <edwardocallaghan> Can a default install of Solaris not encryptes the swap partition
[05:28:24] <edp> on a 900 GB filesystem with various user files (some media) i'm getting 1.08
[05:28:25] <edwardocallaghan> What would be wrong with that?
[05:28:38] <Error_404> i have swap on zfs
[05:28:43] <Error_404> for no particular reason
[05:28:52] <aFlag> Error_404: are you talking about zfs compression or openbsd checksum thing?
[05:28:59] <whaq> say, where can one get the latest version of a SUNW package? (SUNWwebminu & SUNWwebminr)
[05:29:04] <Error_404> aFlag: zfs compression
[05:29:18] <edwardocallaghan> Why put SWAP on ZFS hehe
[05:29:40] <edwardocallaghan> No I would keep it well outside on a cheap small disk
[05:29:54] <jteo> morn.
[05:29:57] <Error_404> why not put swap on zfs?
[05:30:02] <edp> edwardocallaghan, and have your box die if the swap disk dies?
[05:30:04] <syphilis> NAME                   USED  AVAIL  REFER  RATIO
[05:30:05] <syphilis> int/dumps             7.83G   441G  7.83G  1.41x
[05:30:10] <aFlag> oh, yeah, I'd suspect that it would actually be better to compress the data before writing on disk. I even wonder about that while I was reading an OS book, but I didn't realise that it was actually good and people were already doing it :)
[05:30:47] <edwardocallaghan> I put lots of SWAP partition around
[05:30:52] <edwardocallaghan> Not one ?
[05:31:16] <edwardocallaghan> I though it was a good idea maybe I am wrong
[05:31:23] <edp> yes, but the box would still have serious problems if it lost a swap disk
[05:31:47] <edwardocallaghan> What about Solaris encrypt your SWAP by default?
[05:31:49] <dlg> can i limit the number of openings a scsi target will use in solaris?
[05:31:54] <edp> say you have 2 GB used on a swap partition and the disk dies.. the contents of it are gone
[05:32:25] <edp> it's like (effectively) pulling out a dimm from the running compupter
[05:32:32] <edwardocallaghan> And what's going to happen if its on ZFS?
[05:32:42] <edp> there will be redundancy
[05:32:45] <dwc-> eew, why would you wnat to make swapping any slower
[05:33:02] <aFlag> wouldn't 2gb on swap be too much?
[05:33:14] <edwardocallaghan> SWAP is slow that's why I like it on another disk
[05:33:19] <Error_404> aFlag: no
[05:33:30] <dwc-> no, I mean why would you want to compress it
[05:33:40] <edp> it was just an example.. point is, if you have non redundant swap, something isn't going to be happy if it just lost that much memory and its contents
[05:33:42] <Error_404> compressing it would be faster
[05:33:48] <Error_404> disks are slow
[05:34:00] <edwardocallaghan> Buy RAM you cheap bastard hehe :D
[05:34:37] <dwc-> yes, but so does running all these operations to swap memory back in from disk
[05:35:17] <dwc-> the overhead of compressing/decompressing a page isn't really going to save you anything
[05:35:55] <dwc-> writing one 8k page out as 8k is going to cost you the same number of writes to disk than writing out a 4k compressed block to disk
[05:36:44] <edwardocallaghan> What if the RAM packs up
[05:36:54] <edwardocallaghan> What if you use pen and paper
[05:36:55] <dwc-> then I'm killing some processes :)
[05:37:29] <dlg> there are systems that let you do mirrors of ram
[05:37:34] <dlg> so you can lose a dimm and be ok
[05:38:33] <edwardocallaghan> Chipkill
[05:38:42] <edwardocallaghan> OK what ever I was joking anyway
[05:39:32] <edwardocallaghan> be back
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[05:44:53] <dwc-> hm, is it u3 that you can LU with zones?
[05:46:26] <dlg> firmware bugs make me really sad
[05:47:56] <Tpenta> yay, my first sun alert came out at the end of last month
[05:47:59] <Tpenta> http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102574-1
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[05:51:53] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[05:52:09] <edwardocallaghan> Why's it say in the man pages of see you This program does not work very well. ?
[05:52:18] <edwardocallaghan> Under Bugs
[05:52:28] <edwardocallaghan> That's funny is that a joke?
[05:54:14] <mlh> edwardocallaghan: which man page?
[05:54:28] <edwardocallaghan> man cu
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[05:55:27] <jbk> heh.. we just managed to hit a sun alert i think the day after it was released :) talk about timing..
[05:55:33] <edwardocallaghan> Can anyone hell me on connecting to a Ulta 10 over a tty please
[05:55:54] <jbk> 9600b, n81, no hardware flow control
[05:56:05] <jbk> make sure keyboard isn't pluggined in at boot
[05:56:16] <edwardocallaghan> I don't have a kb
[05:56:17] <jbk> or do you want to configure the 2nd serial port instead of aserial console?
[05:56:39] <edwardocallaghan> the 9pin Dtype
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[05:56:50] <edwardocallaghan> I don't have much here
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[05:57:21] <edwardocallaghan> cu -l /dev/ttyS0
[05:57:33] <edwardocallaghan> it just says connected
[05:58:26] <jbk> ok
[05:58:33] <jbk> not keyboard response>
[05:58:36] <jbk> ?
[05:59:12] <edwardocallaghan> I don't have one that's why I am doing this
[06:01:26] <edwardocallaghan> Anyone know more about see you then me :p?
[06:06:44] <jteo> minicom?
[06:08:32] <edwardocallaghan> I got minicom
[06:08:37] <edwardocallaghan> I can use that
[06:08:55] <edwardocallaghan> let me just get the man page for it
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[06:13:44] <jteo> wb stevel.
[06:13:51] <stevel> 'evening jteo
[06:15:12] <edwardocallaghan> Right I got minicom open with the right settings me thinks
[06:16:20] <edwardocallaghan> How do I change 8N1 to n81 ?
[06:16:44] <edwardocallaghan> Or are they the same and minicom says it different
[06:17:45] <rydis> I find Kermit to be the best program for serial (and quite a few other) comms.
[06:18:07] <rydis> But 8N1 and n81 are probably the same thing.
[06:18:32] <jteo> i've only ever used tip. :|
[06:18:41] <edwardocallaghan> OK I will install it
[06:18:49] <edwardocallaghan> I don't have tip
[06:18:58] <edwardocallaghan> only cu
[06:19:02] <rydis> (No parity, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit.)
[06:20:18] <stevel> jteo: can i trouble you to code-review stephen potter's changes to hostname?
[06:20:26] <rydis> If you're just talking to a sun serial port, for console, pretty much anything ought to do, really.
[06:20:27] <stevel> since you mucked about with it recently ;-)
[06:20:58] <edwardocallaghan> This should be working
[06:21:08] <edwardocallaghan> That's why I asking
[06:21:13] <jteo> stevel: sure.
[06:21:39] <jteo> stevel: drop me an email with his changes?
[06:23:11] <rydis> Do you get anything at all in cu/minicom/kermit when you power up the U10?
[06:23:20] <boyd> Null modem cable?
[06:23:21] <stevel> jteo: http://cr.grommit.com/~stevel/hostname_cr
[06:24:28] <stevel> (sorry, can't find your email addr at the moment)
[06:25:09] <edwardocallaghan> I think it maybe this cable
[06:25:24] <edwardocallaghan> Any one know a good site and I'll make a new one
[06:25:27] <rydis> I imagine that what boyd is askins is whether you're sure you've got the right cable. I don't recall if you want a crossed one or not, but try the other kind. ;)
[06:26:15] <boyd> If it's computer to computer you want a null-modem cable. I can't remember if that's crossed or not either
[06:26:54] <rydis> A null-modem cable is crossed. (2->3, 3->2, IIRC.)
[06:27:10] <aFlag> for a first solaris install should that first Solaris Express build 53 CD sufice? Or should I get something else? I want to be able to have a system where I can easily browse through code
[06:27:23] <edwardocallaghan> VT102 right
[06:27:48] <boyd> aFlag: You really want all the CDs. There isn't really provision for using only some of them
[06:28:08] <edwardocallaghan> VT102 with BS right :/
[06:28:23] <aFlag> boyd: oh, I see.
[06:28:32] <boyd> .. or the DVD :)
[06:30:05] <boyd> It's been a while, but I think of you do a minimal install you can only use the 1st CD. On the other hand, you don't get X or much other stuff then
[06:30:49] <aFlag> they're not easily downloaded through the net?
[06:30:58] <razrX> morning all
[06:31:02] <aFlag> Well, I'll just get all the cds to save any trouble latter :P
[06:31:31] <boyd> aFlag: Alas, there is currently no network packaged based install
[06:32:59] <edwardocallaghan> I like cu it reminds me of Vim
[06:33:01] <jteo> aFlag: src.opensolaris.org
[06:33:26] <edwardocallaghan> That's it bed time
[06:33:29] <edwardocallaghan> Night
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[06:34:32] <aFlag> jteo: yeah, I've seen that, but I really wanted to browse them on my system, using vim and maybe making some modifications, see how things work
[06:34:49] <jteo> aFlag: ah.
[06:35:05] <onbot> commit by Rod Evans:  6496718 restricted visibility symbol references should trigger archive extraction
[06:35:05] <onbot> commit by Rod Evans:  6496718 restricted visibility symbol references should trigger archive extraction
[06:35:10] <Tpenta> oi stevel
[06:36:11] <aFlag> also building my own programs in different platforms always help me getting them more portable
[06:36:14] <Tpenta> ping stevel
[06:37:21] <stevel> tpenta: pong
[06:37:25] <Tpenta> drwxr-xr-x   2 stevel   staff         13 Dec 12 06:44 /export/dlc/dlc_files/on/downloads/20061211
[06:37:40] <stevel> grr. thought i had fixed my umask
[06:37:56] <Tpenta> :)
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[06:38:16] <stevel> tpenta: go ahead and try now
[06:38:17] <stevel> sorry bout that
[06:38:22] <Tpenta> if you were doing it as tonicpush it would not be a problem
[06:39:00] <stevel> indeed it wouldn't - but this way i can have my delivery scripts do it in a simpler fashion (since they run on my build machines, rather than on tonic-push)
[06:41:38] <Tpenta> shouldnt you be able to give away ownership of the dir with chown once you are done?
[06:42:18] <stevel> sure, though is it enough if i umask 0000?
[06:42:35] <Tpenta> should be (although three of those zerous are redundant
[06:42:42] <Tpenta> and pushed
[06:43:05] <stevel> danke
[06:43:24] <Tpenta> whoa i pushed on, why was it deleting stuff in crossbow?
[06:43:40] <stevel> did you pass the "-c on" flag to dlcpush.sh?
[06:43:48] <stevel> if not, then it'll rsync the whole dlc_files tree
[06:48:26] <jteo> aFlag: you need all the CDs
[06:48:40] <aFlag> yeah, thanks :)
[06:53:04] <Tpenta> stevel ahh
[06:57:30] <g4lt-U60> the short answer in solaris is if you need to ask about alternate ways to install solaris, there aren't any
[06:59:23] <loke__> Using SMF or some other method, is there a simple way to start a service in a zone only after another service running in a different zone is started?
[06:59:43] <jteo> SMF dependencies don't cross zones.
[06:59:45] <loke__> (logical reasoning says no)
[06:59:52] <loke__> jteo: thought so
[07:00:02] <jteo> and since zones are isolated, 1 local zone can't see the other local zone either
[07:00:54] <loke__> basically, I have a service in zone A that talks to a postgres database in zone B. I want to make sure the database is up before I start the app. I realise this is probably more of a postgres issue than an SMF issue though
[07:02:14] <boyd> you could make a service in the global zone that uses zlogin to enable the zone A service, then waits and enables the zone B service.
[07:02:46] <boyd> Or you could use suncluster 3.2 (nearly released) to make a one-node cluster and then set up one app to depend on the other in the two zones as you like
[07:02:47] <loke__> oooh
[07:02:52] <loke__> that's kinda neat
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[07:05:13] <boyd> You would want to enable -t the services so they don't start by themselves next boot
[07:06:34] <McBofh> edwardocallaghan: /whois loke__
[07:06:49] <McBofh> hm, might just ask nickserv instead :)
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[07:07:31] <loke> thanks :-)
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[07:10:18] <boyd> Me has two questions. Do we know when the putback for todays sunalert about ld.so when back into nevada?
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[07:10:47] <syphilis> boyd: about a week ago iirc
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[07:10:57] <syphilis> i remember seeing it on irc
[07:11:29] <boyd> Cool.. thx.. and 2: in the Sunalert document, what does "State: Workaround" mean when later followed by: "There is no workaround for these issues."
[07:11:43] * boyd goes to look at hg logs
[07:18:05] <boyd> Ah: 856ba340e65d 6487273 ld.so.1 may open arbitrary locale files when relative path is built from locale environment vars In b54 by the look
[07:19:02] <boyd> Tue Nov 28 16:45:29 2006 -0800
[07:20:04] <syphilis> where is the advisory?  (us peons only get weekly summaries)
[07:20:17] <boyd> http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102724-1
[07:21:07] <boyd> I'm a peon too. Subscribe to this: http://blogs.sun.com/security/
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[07:25:01] <Tpenta> hello dennis
[07:25:05] <dclarke> hello
[07:25:13] <dclarke> its been a while
[07:25:42] <Tpenta> the enc bins for last night are up
[07:25:47] <dclarke> I am installing S10u3 here
[07:25:52] <Tpenta> which happens to be the same day as the close for b55
[07:25:57] <dclarke> so .. not really looking at opensolaris at the moment
[07:26:13] <dclarke> ah .. so really .. I should have a look at that
[07:26:14] <boyd> dclarke: Beat ya by a few hours :)
[07:26:33] <dclarke> boyd : but I bet I have you beat in terms of RAM !
[07:26:42] <boyd> So do I
[07:26:45] * dclarke never fast enough to catch boyd
[07:26:53] <boyd> On the S10u3 box
[07:26:58] <dclarke> oh ?
[07:27:00] <jamesd_> hi dclarke
[07:27:09] <dclarke> hello james
[07:27:17] <dclarke> I have a problem .. an ethical delimma
[07:27:26] <boyd> dclarke: I was in here yesterday showing off prtconf with 106GB RAM
[07:27:51] <dclarke> I have long held the positions that the dumpadm config should point to a dump device that is large enough to hold all of RAM
[07:27:55] <dclarke> 106 GB ?
[07:28:00] <dclarke> you said 106 ?
[07:28:06] <dclarke> not 16 ?
[07:28:07] <McBofh> boyd: yeah, but isn't that box in Colorado and nowhere near you?
[07:28:08] <boyd> .. and 57 CPUs, yes
[07:28:11] <McBofh> dclarke: yeah, 106Gb
[07:28:19] <boyd> This one is on Germany... Munich I think
[07:28:20] * dclarke falls out of chair
[07:28:26] <dclarke> Opterons ?
[07:28:27] <McBofh> dclarke: that's not an ethical dilemma, it's an engineering problem
[07:28:32] <boyd> UsIII
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[07:28:39] <boyd> dclarke: It's a 15k
[07:28:44] <dclarke> no .. its ethical ..
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[07:28:56] <dclarke> I *could* create a 32GB swap area
[07:29:02] <dclarke> or _cheat_
[07:29:05] <boyd> There's an ethics of dump devices now?
[07:29:10] <dclarke> and make it only 4GB
[07:29:19] <jamesd_> dclarke, since  the dumping code does compression  its usually not neccessary to match exactly and i have heard even on the largest boxes it doesn't use more than a few gigabyte to handle even the largest dumps
[07:29:24] <dclarke> yeah .. what to do ?  to do the *right* thing or not
[07:29:51] <boyd> dclarke: It depends how much you want to be able to grab crash dumps
[07:29:55] <dclarke> I really don't want to allocate a ton of disk space to swap that will never get used
[07:30:28] <boyd> jamesd_ is right, and further, unless you are dumping all of RAM it'll be smaller
[07:30:57] <dclarke> so in theory a machine with 32GB of RAM should be *okay* with 8GB of swap ?
[07:30:58] * boyd notices that the Optimus keyboard is now using switch-and-bait tactics :)
[07:31:05] <g4lt-U60> dclarke, get aq multi-terabyte array, then 32G is nothing ;P
[07:31:06] <jamesd_> dont forget its not just swap that uses swap, but /tmp as well so probably best to allocate swap == to the amount of ram in the box.
[07:31:34] <boyd> McBofh: You WFH yet?
[07:31:51] <Tpenta> he is
[07:31:53] <jamesd_> dclarke, allocating a full spindle or two is probably faster than just a slice anyway..
[07:31:57] <boyd> ... or limit /tmp
[07:31:58] <dclarke> okay .. I'm a coward ... maybe I'll just go with a pile of swap and kill most of a 72GB disk
[07:32:16] <dclarke> be right back
[07:32:55] <dclarke> oh heck .. I should use other disks for this swap thing anyways
[07:32:58] <dclarke> duh
[07:33:10] <dclarke> I have four to choose from and the first two are mirrored anyways
[07:34:04] <jamesd_> a pair of 36
[07:34:22] <jamesd_> GB 15k rpm drives  mirrored would be good for swap and not break the bank
[07:34:49] <dclarke> well .. I certainly don't have that laying around here
[07:35:16] <jamesd_> i thought this was for a customer buying a box with 32GB of ram...
[07:35:31] <dclarke> yeah .. it is ..
[07:35:39] <dclarke> and it has 72GB disks in it
[07:36:14] <dclarke> four of them .. soooo .. what I will do is just use the first two disks as OS and then a chunk of the other two disks as swap
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[07:38:14] <jamesd_> dclarke, might be best to spread the swap across all 4 drives...  8-16GB each drive.. and mirrored if the customer is paranoid..
[07:39:34] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/Ik0BEN29.nln.html
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[07:42:38] <boyd> Tpenta: Thanks, just worked that out
[07:43:31] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/3PkV7p92.nln.html  <-- check out the language load on this puppy
[07:47:05] <dclarke> anyone out there have a really fast Opteron ? like over 2.8 GHz ?
[07:47:33] <jamesd_> not i
[07:49:04] <dclarke> you have an U20 right ?
[07:49:12] <dclarke> what speed is that ?
[07:49:17] <dclarke> 2.4 GHz ?
[07:49:24] <jamesd_> yeap.  2.6 ghz   single core
[07:49:33] <boyd> Do they make tham that fast?
[07:49:35] <dclarke> okay .. thats pretty quick
[07:49:50] <dclarke> I have a job for you .. will make a nice blog link also
[07:50:01] <jamesd_> ok
[07:50:11] <dclarke> let me go get the info .. one sec
[07:52:15] <jteo> dclarke: hello
[07:52:30] <dclarke> jteo :  hello back at ya
[07:56:50] <asyd> \_o<
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[07:57:44] <jteo> asyd: hello duckie. ;)
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[08:02:00] <dclarke> okay .. I'm back
[08:02:06] <dclarke> am feeding CDROMs to this machine
[08:02:33] <dclarke> I will be happy when the whole bloody OS fits on a single 4GB USB key and is bootable from there
[08:02:44] <dclarke> that will make installation a little easier
[08:02:57] <dclarke> anyways ... jamesd ?
[08:03:06] <dclarke> what are you running on that Ultra 20 ?
[08:03:11] <jamesd_> yes i'm around for a little while
[08:03:32] <jamesd_> win xp + vmware server so i can use any OS you like
[08:03:39] <dclarke> crap
[08:03:46] <dclarke> that won't fly
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[08:03:57] <jamesd_> currently have   unbreakable linux, debian,  sxcr and  nexenta installed and ready to use.
[08:04:15] <dclarke> I am looking for Solaris 10 Update 3
[08:04:26] <dclarke> on a _really_ fast server
[08:04:27] <jamesd_> haven't even downloaded it yet
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[08:04:49] <jamesd_> what are you trying to accomplish?
[08:05:02] <dclarke> a benchmark
[08:05:10] <dclarke> see http://mark.technolope.org/pages/rad_bench.html
[08:05:38] <dclarke> Myself and James Lee ( at Blastwave ) are both nuts for ray traceing
[08:05:55] <dclarke> I tend to be a little focused on performance optimizatio these days
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[08:06:11] <dclarke> we have a build of radience and its real real fast on Solaris
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[08:06:34] <dclarke> but we only have a 2.2 GHz Opteron in the Blastwave stack
[08:06:44] <dclarke> that's fast .. but not fast enough
[08:06:46] <aliquis> Could anyone at sun figure out what the correct url for the pdf link from http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=16696 might be?
[08:07:22] <dclarke> the code has been built for the AMD64 target and its just a tad faster than anything else
[08:07:45] <dclarke> I thought it would be nice to turn in the overall fastest benchmark on Solaris 10 update 3
[08:08:30] <jamesd_> dclarke, given its a cpu based benchmark just using something close in the list..they have allready tested boxes faster than mine because some of the ones listed are dual core... thus twice as fast as mine.. the OS shouldn't matter more than 1-2% on a cpu bound task
[08:09:25] <dclarke> a single core 2.2 GHz Opteron clocks in at just a little slower than the fastest result they have
[08:09:46] <dclarke> so we figure a fast single core Opteron will slay the thing
[08:11:45] <boyd> What you want is someone with an X4600
[08:11:59] <dclarke> the 3GHz chips
[08:12:18] <jamesd_> in a couple months all the numbers are meaningless  since  4 core cpus will be coming out...
[08:12:33] <dclarke> its single threaded code
[08:12:45] <dclarke> multi-core just means the image gets sliced up
[08:13:18] <jamesd_> Tabulated below are run times for the rpict step of the process involved in making an accurate rendering with Radiance. This test was designed mainly to exercise the ambient calculation portion of Radiance, but includes other types of commonly-used elements, namely daylighting, mesh primitive, antimatter, alias, brightfunc, and colorpict. It supports parallel computers (SMP only) via rpiece, though it may be exteneded to
[08:13:19] <jamesd_> support workstation clusters in the future.
[08:13:46] <dclarke> right
[08:13:50] <dclarke> so ?
[08:13:51] <boyd> ... so a 16way x4600 woiuld be nice
[08:14:18] <dclarke> no no ... it supports SMP via rpiece ... thats the image slicer
[08:14:43] <dclarke> it simply slices up the image and then processes either vertical slices or horizontal slices
[08:14:45] <razrX> i can't figure out how to enable the zfs webconsole app via wcadmin(1M) on a snv_53 box. wcadmin list shows the zfs webapp deployed but in a stopped state. when i `wcadmin enable -x zfs` i get "Error processing the zfs web application: Error from manager enable: Error from manager enable: Unexpected exception connecting to the container manager: HTTPS hostname wrong:  should be <127.0.0.1>"
[08:15:05] <razrX> i simply enabled the webconsole service by running svcadm enable webconsole
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[08:16:15] <razrX> i can login as root into the webconsol on https://localhost:6789 though but get the infamous "no apps are registered" as discussed at http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=9175
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[08:16:49] <razrX> either smreg or wcadmin are not working for me, anyone else having this "problem" ?
[08:17:14] <jamesd_> i've never managed to get the zfs tool to work though i haven't tried in a while
[08:17:56] <syphilis> why am i getting duplicate ON commit notifications?
[08:18:15] <razrX> thx for the reply james, i'll try a different webapp on this box or will try to enable the zfs webapp on a sol10 u2 release tonight
[08:18:33] <razrX> that will be upgraded to u3
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[08:19:08] <jamesd_> oh well.. i'm off to bed.. see you all tomorow...
[08:19:17] <razrX> nn james
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[09:09:54] <Doc> restore from your latest non-corrupt backup
[09:10:14] <Doc> blah
[09:11:35] <jteo> Doc: ?
[09:13:05] <Doc> wrong channel
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[10:52:08] <raph_ael> hello
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[11:17:34] <Gr|ffous> my 4100's arrived today, woo!
[11:17:55] <Gr|ffous> you know you enjoy work when your family is calling asking when you'll be home
[11:18:42] <Gr|ffous> I'm still just gobsmacked by the ILOM. I installed the os with, no keyboard, no mouse, no floppy, no cdrom, no video. The server had power and a single cat-5, that was IT!
[11:20:19] <jteo> Gr|ffous: welcome to civilization.
[11:20:51] <Gr|ffous> and what a merry place it is to be in
[11:21:06] <onbot> commit by yq193411:  6428204 CDC ACM class driver and devices with modem function need to be supported
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[11:21:36] <onbot> commit by yq193411:  6428204 CDC ACM class driver and devices with modem function need to be supported
[11:21:37] <Gr|ffous> the install process for windows could be better, Dell wins with both the windows install process (sun appears to have no install assistant for windows), and the rack rails.
[11:21:52] <Gr|ffous> other then that though, it's been a wicked day
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[11:48:38] <Gr|ffous> I'm having some trouble with ludelete. For some reason it's trying to mount a slice that contains my zfs pool. There isn't any mention of that slice in the BE's vfstab, where else should I be looking?
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[11:51:37] <onbot> commit by arindam sarkar:  6451790 timex need to be compiled in 64 bit, to prevent overflows
[11:51:50] <Doc> lufslist
[11:53:21] <Gr|ffous> there wasn't any mention of it there either. I appear to have fixed it by doing a ludelete while still having the BE mounted using lumount. weird
[11:57:12] <lasseoe> can anyone confirm if JES5 Beta contains Comms Suite (Messaging ec.)
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[12:06:20] <quasi> Gr|ffous: plain old 4100s or M2s?
[12:10:49] <Gr|ffous> the 1st generation sadly. The 2nd weren't working with ESX at the time we needed to order them
[12:15:03] <jteo> ah VMWARE user.
[12:15:51] <Gr|ffous> that's the [very expensive] plan :)
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[12:17:26] <Gr|ffous> I will be really interested to see how well these 4100s handle the load
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[12:17:56] <Gr|ffous> as an aside, does anyone know much about the RAM configuration considerations in these servers
[12:18:15] <Doc> yes. what specifically?
[12:18:27] <Gr|ffous> I ordered them with 12GB of ram, which came in 2GB dimms, giving us 6 dimms
[12:18:44] <Gr|ffous> CPU0 had 4, CPU1 had 2.
[12:18:57] <Doc> yup.. thats fine
[12:19:08] <Doc> all done in pairs
[12:19:17] <Gr|ffous> Which didn't feel right. So I tried 3 each - it didn't like that, so I'm back to 4/2, which still makes me think non optimised thoughts
[12:19:45] <Gr|ffous> essentially though, one cpu has more 'dedicated' ram then the other right?
[12:20:04] <Gr|ffous> so CPU1 has to NUMA/hypertransport it's way to the other 8?
[12:20:33] <quasi> it has to be pairs
[12:20:53] <jteo> Gr|ffous: correct. NUMA.
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[12:21:53] <Gr|ffous> Should I be strategically trying to put more memory intensive VMs on CPU0, to help balance it?
[12:22:06] <Gr|ffous> or is NUMA fast enough that it's not really that much of a big deal
[12:22:06] <Doc> grif: yeah.. it's a bit unbalanced. get over it
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[12:22:41] <Gr|ffous> Doc; happy to get over it, I'd just like to understand it better first
[12:24:12] <Doc> memory is interleaves over 2 DIMMs, so you have to have pairs
[12:24:30] <Doc> given that, and the fact that nobody makes 1.5 or 3Gb DIMMs, you have no choice but to have 4/2
[12:25:11] <Doc> so either get over it, or buy yourself some more RAM (which doesnt actually solve the problem - if anything it makes it worse from a bus perspective - same bandwidth, more data)
[12:25:36] <Doc> pull out 1 CPU and you wont have this problem (of course, you'll only have 1 CPU and 4 Gb of memory, but hey.. :)
[12:27:04] <Gr|ffous> ok, thanks. I understand that they interleave, and require pairs, and that it's done now. I guess I just wanted to understand what that actually resulted in, in practicle terms.
[12:29:04] <Gr|ffous> I guess the bottom line is, with AMDs the memory bus hurt will be MUCH less, then if these were Intel heaters ;)
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[12:39:34] <quasi> indeed
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[12:44:59] <timeless> alanc: how do i get a libgtop version?
[13:01:06] <onbot> commit by ny155746:  6472892 closedir() crash when called twice on the same dirp
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[13:14:42] <gotit> hi i am a newbee
[13:14:58] <gotit> didnt installed solaris sofar
[13:15:20] <gotit> didnt even see how it look like,
[13:15:49] <gotit> do you people recomand installing it
[13:16:16] <gotit> i bought a system for trying linux distros
[13:16:21] <gotit> anybody alive
[13:16:36] <trygvis> ask a question and someone *might* answer
[13:16:37] <Berny_> alive yes sort of
[13:16:50] <gotit>  do you people recomand installing it
[13:17:07] <Berny_> yes
[13:17:11] <gotit> the whole thing i write was a question i guess
[13:17:32] <trygvis> but did you join this channel and expect another answer that "yes"?
[13:17:36] <trygvis> :)
[13:17:42] <gotit> i know nothin about linux
[13:17:50] <Cyrille> but it's not really a question. Obviously most people here are using it, or they probably wouldn't bother coming around here.
[13:17:53] <gotit> lo
[13:18:00] <gotit> l* :)
[13:18:20] <gotit> ok
[13:18:47] <gotit> is this a help channel for solaris users or is it just for experts??
[13:18:59] <gotit> cause no body is askin anyhin :)
[13:19:28] <Berny_> we all know everything ;-)
[13:19:45] <gotit> anyways i order some linux distros ,including solarix ofcourse,
[13:19:47] <gotit> :)
[13:19:51] <Berny_> but for most of us things are running well, so no questions at the moment
[13:19:58] <gotit> thats cooool
[13:20:07] <Berny_> solaris is not a linux distro
[13:20:14] <Cyrille> and not to nitpick too much but solaris is not a linux distro.
[13:20:25] <Berny_> *5* Cyrille
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[13:20:43] <gotit> can you explain a little bit more please
[13:20:54] <Cyrille> I was in the midst of typing it when your answer appeared and didn't want all these bytes to go to waste ;-)
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[13:21:11] <gotit> :-)
[13:21:12] *** dlg has joined #opensolaris
[13:21:18] <Berny_> solaris and linux are two pairs of shoes... although the share the same ancestor
[13:21:41] <trygvis> the leather sandal? :)
[13:21:46] <gotit> lol
[13:21:49] <Cyrille> the piece of wood tied to the foot
[13:21:53] <Berny_> the holy sandal!
[13:22:00] <dlg> Berny_: thats a bit unfair
[13:22:03] <trygvis> \o/
[13:22:05] <Cyrille> no, no, it's a gourd!
[13:22:06] <Cyrille> the
[13:22:09] <Berny_> follow the sandal!
[13:22:20] <Cyrille> heretic!
[13:22:45] <gotit> anyways i orderd it , even if its not a linux distro :)
[13:22:56] <gotit> is it easy to install ??
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[13:24:35] <Cyrille> it might require you to acquaint yourself with some of the concepts of the Unix world (if you've got experience with neither Linux nor Solaris I'll assume you're new to that)
[13:25:08] <gotit> you are assuming right
[13:26:03] <gotit> can i install it on intel system
[13:26:10] <Cyrille> yes
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[13:29:20] <Berny_> .oO(if he ordered the right set of dvds yes)
[13:30:31] <Cyrille> the one with the director's commentary?
[13:30:34] <gotit> what do you mean the right set of dvds
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[13:30:44] <gotit> lol
[13:30:51] <Berny_> x86 version not the sparc one 8-)
[13:31:46] <gotit> aah
[13:32:04] <gotit> lemme check it , or rather retell them
[13:32:59] <gotit> can it be installed with any other operating system like debian or slackware
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[13:33:53] <gotit> any ways if its not linux, and i am sure its not windows , than what is it, a unix??
[13:35:27] <dlg> wait
[13:35:31] <dlg> you think that linux is the only unix?
[13:36:00] <gotit> i guess, as i am fairly new
[13:36:08] <dlg> wow
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[13:36:25] <dlg> linux isnt technically unix
[13:36:36] <gotit> really?
[13:36:42] <dlg> no
[13:36:53] <dlg> unix is like a qualification you have to pay to get assessed for
[13:37:10] <gotit> actually i want to learn unix , idont know why , but i have heard a lot about it
[13:37:13] <dlg> linux is unixlike, but it isnt technically unix
[13:37:14] <quasi> it also doesn't quite follow the standard
[13:37:38] <gotit> aah thats no so cool,
[13:39:38] <gotit> solaris is unix right?
[13:41:52] <Cyrille> though I'm usually wary of linking to that source, since you might find out that Lunix was discovered by Magellan in 1853 in Iraq, you may learn a couple of things from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix
[13:41:53] <gotit> and wat this linux is if not unix and
[13:42:22] <quasi> gotit: you can even get Solaris to conform to different versions of the spec if you ask it nicely
[13:42:27] <Cyrille> it's another operating system which happens to have similarities to Unix
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[13:43:55] <gotit> quasi: i didnt understand
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[13:44:44] <gotit> cyrille: your last sentence was about solaris or linux??
[13:44:51] <Cyrille> linux
[13:45:04] <Capricorn^80> hi ! can anyone tell me how to unblock a specific port in solaris 9
[13:45:23] <gotit> and solaris is unix
[13:45:53] <gotit> right?
[13:46:26] <Cyrille> yes
[13:47:33] <gotit> can you please tell me some differences in linux and unix
[13:48:16] <silk> 5 letters vs. 4 letters
[13:48:21] <raph_ael> :)
[13:48:23] <gotit> hehe
[13:48:25] <Cyrille> the order of the i and u, too.
[13:48:44] <Doc> Solaris is UNIX!
[13:48:52] <gotit> and linux is not
[13:48:57] <LeftWing> Spoken with the power and conviction of CAPITALS.
[13:48:57] <Doc> Linux is unix (maybe)
[13:48:58] <raph_ael> solarix
[13:49:01] <LeftWing> Like FORTRAN.
[13:49:09] <Doc> leftwing: no. spoken with the trademark that UNIX brings
[13:49:25] <gotit> lol guys
[13:49:26] <razrX> the 4 letter one takes a *lot* of effort to guarantee backwards binary compatibility and the 5 letter one does not
[13:49:36] <quasi> LeftWing: of course - the louder you shout, the more right you are (or so some people seem to think)
[13:49:37] <LeftWing> Doc: That trademark includes the power and conviction of capitals. =P
[13:49:53] <Doc> it's like the difference between the "Windows" on my laptop, and the "windows" on my house... there's quite a difference :)
[13:50:06] <gotit> DOC: lol
[13:50:15] <Doc> (thankfully the windows on my house dont break anywhere near as much)
[13:50:31] <Capricorn^80> hello ?
[13:50:50] <LeftWing> Capricorn^80: Read about Sun Screen.  Or whatever firewall is being used on your Solaris 9 box.
[13:50:50] <gotit> "backwards binary compatibility" what does it mean
[13:51:06] <quasi> Doc: but it would be cool if you could fix most broken glass by rebooting it ;)
[13:51:15] <Doc> it means that an app written for/compiled on Solaris 2.0 (or even SunOS 4 for the most part) will run on Solaris 10
[13:51:22] <razrX> gotit: that i can take a binary from a very old SunOS release and still have it work on a Solaris 10 box today
[13:51:29] <Doc> (that was for gotit btw)
[13:52:04] <gotit> no i mean
[13:52:33] <gotit> i want to know some major diffrences of linux and unix
[13:52:36] * LeftWing sleeps. &
[13:52:56] <raph_ael> gotit: rtfm a little bit i think :)
[13:53:02] <gotit> i read the wiki page anyways but it mostly tells about its origon and history and bla bla
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[13:53:39] <razrX> well that history and "bla bla" defines what UNIX is so i wouldn't take it so lightly ;)
[13:53:48] <gotit> raph_ael: what?
[13:54:13] <Cyrille> gotit: I'm not sure there are "major" differences, which is why Linux is usually referred to as a "Unix-like".
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[13:57:35] <gotit> so if i learn linux , means ,i also learne unix
[13:58:11] <jamesd_> gotit, not exactly... solaris is much more complex ]
[13:58:26] <gotit> but...
[13:59:02] <jamesd_> linux is like driving a sedan,   solaris is like driving a 18 speed semi truck.. yes the steering wheel and gas petal are still there, but there is still a lot more to learn
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[13:59:28] <gotit> if i learnd solaris , .....
[13:59:30] <gotit> ok
[13:59:31] <Cyrille> at any rate even "learning linux" is a kind of abstract proposition, there are many distributions out there, and though they do share the same kernel, the rest of the operating system may have differences.
[13:59:53] <Cyrille> we've moved from the shoe analogy to the car one...
[14:00:51] <gotit> but i thought they use the same command prompt
[14:01:00] <delewis> and regardless, you're not really learning Linux
[14:01:03] <delewis> you're learning the GNU userland.
[14:01:10] <delewis> there's a distinction.
[14:01:21] <dlg> delewis: its all a world of pain
[14:01:29] <delewis> gotit, I suggest you find a copy of "Learning UNIX" from O'Reilly.
[14:01:30] <gotit> i mean the gui could be different but not the commmands
[14:02:00] <delewis> gotit, the commands vary slightly between GNU and the UNIX (POSIX) userland.
[14:02:03] <jamesd_> gotit, commands are different to a small extent and solaris has more commands
[14:02:18] <gotit> i have it already
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[14:02:41] <delewis> read it then.
[14:02:52] <delewis> the book uses an SVR4/Solaris 2.0 userland.
[14:03:15] <gotit> learning unix , unix power tools sed and awk,  i got it recently,
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[14:04:06] <gotit> UNIX Power Tools
[14:04:06] <gotit> UNIX in a Nutshell: System V Edition
[14:04:06] <gotit> Learning the vi Editor
[14:04:06] <gotit> sed & awk
[14:04:06] <gotit> Learning the Korn Shell
[14:04:07] <gotit> Learning the UNIX Operating System
[14:04:10] <gotit> oh sorry
[14:04:49] <gotit> i didnt wanted to paste it like this
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[14:06:07] <raph_ael> read and above all use, gotit :)
[14:06:52] <lasseoe> and Google
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[14:08:03] <raph_ael> :)
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[14:10:28] <quasi> why bother with all those books when you can http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16
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[14:12:06] <Doc> exactly! the only book worth buying is bill calkins sol10 sysadmin one
[14:12:32] <Doc> not that my recommendation of it has anything to do with me being involved in it :)
[14:12:36] <bougie> hello :)
[14:13:01] <hile_> not at all, Doc.
[14:16:09] <gotit> hm
[14:19:44] <gotit> the above site is all about solarix
[14:20:24] <gotit> isnt there any difference between solaris and unix
[14:20:38] <hile_> uh, what?
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[14:20:55] <dlg> solaris is a unix
[14:22:23] <gotit> ok
[14:24:34] <gotit> so if i learn solaris , i can operate any flavor of unix
[14:25:07] <hile_> if you have a brain, probably.
[14:25:36] <hile_> but to say something is UNIX means it adheres to some standards (and is authorised to be called same); each has their own idiosyncracies
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[14:26:34] <raph_ael> if you reaally know one unix/unix-like os, you'll find your way in another gotit
[14:26:47] <raph_ael> but you'll always have to learn again and again
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[14:30:24] <gotit> nice to meet you guys , i have to leave now , i will porbably instally solaris for the first time , tommorow or the day after it Thankyou
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[14:42:37] <jteo_> wb Kmays
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[14:43:03] <Kmays> hello
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[14:52:22] <CaPricorN^801> how to check that tcp port 2401 is running or block ?
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[14:53:39] <quasi> telnet host-ip 2401
[14:54:52] <CaPriCoRN^80> but i have block the telnet
[14:55:29] <quasi> telling it port 2401 just opens a connection to 2401
[14:57:07] <CaPriCoRN^80> <CaPriCoRN^80> connect failed
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[14:57:36] <delewis> netstat -an | grep 2401
[14:58:08] <CaPriCoRN^80> no output
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[15:17:56] <hile_> delewis - count has 2GB RAM now
[15:19:27] <delewis> nice
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[15:27:17] <hile_> mornin mrdeviant
[15:29:20] <mrdeviant> hi
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[15:30:53] <hile_> how goes things in PSU land?
[15:31:43] <mrdeviant> eh ok. i'm just stuck doing support for something I thought was handed-off a year ago.
[15:31:54] <hile_> lionshare?
[15:32:07] <mrdeviant> yes
[15:32:28] <hile_> you poor soul
[15:34:08] <mrdeviant> what's new on your end
[15:34:21] <hile_> not much.
[15:34:26] <hile_> I told you I was engaged, right?
[15:34:29] <mrdeviant> yea
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[16:07:37] <onbot> commit by cf46844:  PSARC/2006/629 /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation; 6487582 xargs: /usr/bin/xargs should acquire the same /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs behavior; Contributed by Garrett D'Amore <garrett_damore at tadpole dot com>
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[16:07:59] <lloy0076> Why is the JDS installer trying to upgrade by Linux branded zone?
[16:08:21] <lloy0076> It's obviously *not* upgradding it but it seems bizarre.
[16:09:08] <Error_404> file the bug?
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[16:09:33] <timeless> pkgadd tries to upgrade my nexenta zone too
[16:09:44] <lloy0076> Is it a bug or a feature?
[16:09:45] <timeless> i think you need to do something special to mark a zone as not to be touched
[16:09:53] <timeless> i just haven't looked to see what that mark is
[16:09:56] <lloy0076> Or a step I haven't taken :)
[16:10:19] <lloy0076> (sorry if I lag - I've got a huge IO hit because of the upgrades)
[16:12:23] <lloy0076> Ok, let's say that I *did* have a real SXCR zone but I wanted to keep it untouched so that my upgrades if they went awry wouldn't throw me back onto the command line...
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[16:12:52] <timeless> actually no
[16:13:02] <timeless> zfs snapshot zone@important
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[16:13:08] <timeless> then do the upgrade
[16:13:13] <timeless> then if it futzes w/ it
[16:13:16] <timeless> zfs rollback :)
[16:13:27] <lloy0076> That would work if /export were on ZFS :P
[16:13:39] <timeless> you're crazy if it isn't =b
[16:13:56] <timeless> but then i'd go w/ -G
[16:13:59] <lloy0076> That's a bit unfair :P
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[16:14:23] <timeless> man pkgadd
[16:14:23] <timeless>      -G            Add package(s) in the current zone only.  When
[16:14:30] <timeless> as for real installers, no clue
[16:15:08] <axisys> remote console access to x2100 thru cisco 2900 is a pita
[16:15:15] <lloy0076> Ideally, I'd like to put my main system on striped RAID and /export on ZFS. However, I still can't work out how to get an OpenSolaris installer to do the striped RAID bit automatically :(
[16:15:44] <axisys> out of 10 this one system does not take F1 or F2.. that is where it is sitting at.. it took F1 for the others
[16:15:57] <axisys> no two x2100 are on same city btw
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[16:20:43] <lloy0076> j #java
[16:20:46] <lloy0076> oops
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[17:09:39] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
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[18:04:08] <onbot> commit by as198278:  5073203 Guest user cannot chdir to home directory if nscd is running
[18:09:03] <stevel> richlowe: you're right, there's definitely something screwy in the notifications that's causing two notifications to be sent
[18:10:11] <xushi> Regarding the Iso, If i have file-a, file-b, file-c, file-d, file-e, is there an easier way with wildcards to cat them all instead of cat file-a, file-b, .... > file  ?
[18:12:06] <alanc> I see onbot has returned
[18:12:19] <alanc> too bad gdamore wasn't around to see onbot announce his putback
[18:14:57] <stevel> richlowe: what i can't figure out is why it does it for some, and not for others
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[19:08:34] <sickness> what's the best unix eMule client in your opinion? aMule? mlnet?
[19:08:49] <Auralis> mlnet
[19:09:18] <sickness> tnx
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[19:19:01] <myrkraverk> can someone here point me to an exlanation of a simple filesystem (cp/m, minix, zfs) that's detailed enough to allow me to implement it?
[19:19:20] <dwc-> fat16?
[19:19:36] <myrkraverk> dwc-: hmm, sure ;)
[19:20:18] <dwc-> google it
[19:20:27] <myrkraverk> ;)
[19:20:40] <dwc-> or wikipedia should be able to point you to some good references
[19:21:03] <Auralis> zfs and simple?
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[19:22:42] <myrkraverk> Auralis: that was supposed to be a joke ;)
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[20:10:28] <gisburn> sickness: ping!
[20:11:14] <sickness> gisburn: pong!
[20:11:36] <gisburn> sickness: is the machine under steam and activated for action ?
[20:12:40] <moazamraja> mykraverk: http://www.letterp.com/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf
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[20:12:50] <sickness> gisburn: booting just now ;)
[20:20:34] <gisburn> ohhh crap
[20:20:45] <gisburn> now the GNU people are after us... ;-(
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[20:27:55] <gisburn> What are "hookers" ?
[20:28:30] <movement> gisburn: does ksh93 fix the zombie child problem then? do you happen to know what the bug was?
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[20:29:04] <gisburn> movement: assuming it is the reaper problem then yes, ksh93 fixes that.
[20:29:05] <alanc> gisburn: slang for prostitute
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[20:29:10] <gisburn> ugh
[20:29:50] <gisburn> Ok, seems it's time to intervene...
[20:29:52] <movement> gisburn: did you just test it, or do you know the revelant code?
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[20:30:22] <gisburn> movement: I remeber ksh93 fixed this very early, even before ksh93d
[20:30:50] <movement> gisburn: ok, thanks
[20:31:28] <gisburn> movement: AFAIK somewhere in libast is code for that.
[20:31:41] <gisburn> movement: dig for |procrun()|&co.
[20:33:08] <onbot> commit by ck153898:  PSARC/2006/638 noxattr ZFS property; 6351954 zfs missing noxattr mount flag
[20:34:06] <dwc-> what are the gnu people after?
[20:34:36] <gisburn> dwc-: /sbin/sh being non-standard and non-posix
[20:34:51] <delewis> gisburn, that's not a surprise.
[20:34:53] <dwc-> oh boo hoo, cry me a river
[20:35:00] <dwc-> did they just realize this now? :)
[20:35:53] <gisburn> dwc-: no, they realised this long ago and are very dissatisfied, up to the recent discussion to remove solaris support until /sbin/sh gets updated.
[20:36:05] <dwc-> I didn't know anyone counted on /sbin/sh to be standard
[20:36:15] <dwc-> remove solaris support from ....
[20:36:34] <gisburn> dwc-: /sbin/sh is the phyiscal location of /usr/bin/sh
[20:36:41] <gisburn> dwc-: gzip/gawk/gsed etc.
[20:37:13] <dwc-> flood [1] ls -l /usr/bin/sh
[20:37:14] <dwc-> flood [2] ls -l /sbin/sh
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[20:42:37] <onbot> commit by Roger Faulkner:  PSARC 2006/659 fork extensions; 6497356 fork extensions
[20:42:59] <syphilis> dwc: what release is that?  S10 /usr/bin/sh is a symlink to /sbin/sh
[20:43:03] <sommerfeld> that was quick
[20:43:10] <dwc-> uh... 8.
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[20:44:23] <alanc> on S9 and earlier /sbin/sh is a statically linked copy of /usr/bin/sh
[20:44:52] <syphilis> i think it's reasoable to stop relying on /bin/sh being posix compliant once people stop writing #! /bin/sh in their code ;-)
[20:45:43] <dwc-> #!/usr/bin/env sh ?
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[20:50:37] <gisburn> dwc-: no.
[20:51:07] <gisburn> dwc-: this is not reliable either.
[20:51:33] <gisburn> dwc-: and the situation is quite bad on solaris since AIX uses ksh for /bin/sh
[20:51:56] <gisburn> which means there are little "other" OSes left which uses a non-POSIX-like shell as /bin/sh
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[20:54:42] <rydis> I thought there was some magic incantation you need to do to ensure a posix environment?
[20:54:45] <delewis> Wikipedia poitns this out, too
[20:54:48] <delewis> on the ksh entry
[20:54:53] <Error_404> isn't  bash even posix compliant when invoked as "sh"
[20:54:59] <delewis> Error_404, no
[20:55:05] <Error_404> news to me
[20:55:07] <delewis> there's a bash compatibility mode that you can build bash with
[20:55:08] <delewis> but it sucks
[20:55:13] <delewis> and most people do not build with it
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[20:55:25] <delewis> s/bash compatibility/POSIX compatility/
[20:55:34] * delewis can't type well over a slow Tarantella session
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[20:55:48] <Error_404> yeah, POSIX_ME_HARDER
[20:56:09] <gisburn> ksh93 conforms to POSIX by default
[20:56:11] <Error_404> but iirc even plain old regular bash, when invoked as /bin/sh is posix
[20:56:36] <gisburn> Error_404: depends
[20:56:50] <Error_404> depends on what?
[20:57:02] <gisburn> Error_404: bash's POSIX implementation sucks various things, including giraffes and elephants and developer brains
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[21:01:38] <dwc-> so um, if /sbin/sh is a symlink to /usr/bin/sh
[21:01:47] <dwc-> what happens if /usr isn't available?
[21:02:21] <syphilis> dwc: wrong way round
[21:02:28] <syphilis> dwc: /usr/bin/sh is a symlink to /sbin/sh
[21:02:28] <richlowe> nothing, you have the two backwards. :)
[21:02:47] <dwc-> ah-ha, it's my head that's the problem!
[21:02:52] * dwc- cuts it off
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[21:03:12] <richlowe> nah, given what /usr being missing *does* cause, it's not an unreasonable thing to wonder.
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[21:03:45] <richlowe> take a look at where fsck is.
[21:03:55] <richlowe> but I recommend having beer handy.
[21:05:36] <dwc-> too lazy to log into the s10 machine
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[21:07:09] <dwc-> if I had to guess /usr/lib/fs/*/
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[21:07:36] <richlowe> Indeed, with the link being in /etc
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[22:03:18] <jbl^> hola.
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[22:23:01] <syphilis> someone really needs to find sun a more reliable network :P
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[22:23:56] <richlowe> the frequency suggests client crashes to me.
[22:24:04] <richlowe> even Sun's proxies tend to last longer than this...
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[22:37:22] <boyd> Morning, all
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[22:38:10] <pikapika> hello
[22:38:17] <boyd> Good grief, do I see a popst that tells me that jamesd_ uses joe!?!
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[22:38:48] <jamesd_> yes i use joe, i cut my teeth on wordstar before many in this channel were born...
[22:39:09] * boyd bites his tougue :)
[22:39:17] <ShadowHntr> lol
[22:39:18] <boyd> err and his tongue
[22:39:22] <ShadowHntr> i used wordstar for a little while
[22:39:28] <ShadowHntr> and wordperfect in the DOS environments...
[22:39:35] * jamesd_ wonders how many in this channel were born after 1977.
[22:39:51] <boyd> jamesd_: Many, I'd say, but less than most channels
[22:39:58] <ShadowHntr> my first computer was a Commodore 64. great computer to start on.
[22:39:59] <ShadowHntr> :)
[22:40:10] <boyd> Luxury, mine was a VIC20
[22:40:30] <boyd> ... who needs more than 5K RAM. Well, me, for one.
[22:40:39] <jamesd_> my first computer was a  apple][+ clone and yes i had a cpm card for it, and had access to many cpm machines before the apple
[22:40:54] <ShadowHntr> i used CPM on a clone once
[22:41:12] <boyd> Never really played with CP/M.... except a brief play with a Z80 card on an apple
[22:42:14] <boyd> My early computers were: VIC20, BBC Micro, Apple //c .. all 6502 based
[22:43:09] <gisburn> Fueled by the possibility of an upcoming merger, Wild Brush Energy (WBRS) is gearing up for an explosion.  Tension is building and soon the scramble to take a position will push this one off the charts. Current $0.80, target $6000000000bazillion.
[22:43:17] <dwc-> hey gisburn
[22:43:19] <dwc-> I get that in my email
[22:43:20] <jamesd_> apple][+, 8086-10, 286-10, 386sx25, 386dx40,  486dx4-100... then i got into sun and SGI gear as well
[22:43:22] <dwc-> do I need to get it here too?
[22:43:23] <gisburn> stupid spam
[22:43:28] <sommerfeld> pump & dump may be grounds for use of /kick
[22:43:29] <sommerfeld> :-)
[22:43:32] <dwc-> I know... "It ready"
[22:43:53] <dwc-> did it really go up to $0.80?
[22:44:00] <dwc-> that was the long-term target in my emails, I think
[22:44:55] <gisburn> whatever. who buys this based pn "email suggestions" ?
[22:45:02] <gisburn> s/pn/on/
[22:45:13] <boyd> jamesd_: You got into x86 before me... after the above I went Macintosh II + SE/30, then I got my first x86 (486DX2 50MHz) to run linux kernel 0.96
[22:45:14] <dwc-> stupid people?
[22:45:24] <gisburn> is human nature that dumb ?
[22:45:38] <dwc-> hah.... yahoo says it's up 0.0020 to 0.0520
[22:45:49] <hspaans> gisburn: yes
[22:45:56] <gisburn> horror
[22:45:57] <boyd> I guess it's the same people who by Herbal Viagra
[22:46:03] <gisburn> heh
[22:46:37] <dwc-> no... it's Her ba|    V!a gr    a
[22:46:38] <jamesd_> boyd, yeap  mac's were always too expensive, it wasn't untill my u20 that i actually paid more than $150 for a computer  ( my first apple][+ was a gift)
[22:47:00] <syphilis> you know, i heard that these email spams can actually affect the price
[22:47:02] <hspaans> boyd: you have seen the prices for Herbal Viagra? You need some profit from pump-and-dump ;-)
[22:47:09] <syphilis> i wonder if you could exploit that by buying/selling quickly enough
[22:47:33] * boyd suspects that close to every cent of HV is profit. Certainly not much goes on R&D
[22:48:09] <dwc-> you don't think the scientists are "R&D'ing" it in bars
[22:48:34] <dwc-> I bet it works great as a pick-up line... ;)
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[22:48:49] <hspaans> dwc-: mit if I'm not mistaken is R&D'ing it
[22:50:41] <hspaans> woei, smpatch also is patching StarOffice 8
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[22:53:08] <onbot> commit by arindam sarkar:  6451790 timex need to be compiled in 64 bit, to prevent overflows (fix build warning)
[22:53:22] <TrogL> I this possible?  I've added HBA's.  /kernel/drv/scsi_vhci.conf is already mpxio-ready.  The SAN guys have presented a partition, but I'm seeing 4 drives.
[22:53:40] <TrogL> with mpxio I shoould only see one.  My instructions say to reboot.  Is th ere any way around it?
[22:54:15] <TrogL> ive already done cfgadm -al, cfagdm -c configure, devfsadm -C -c disk
[22:56:01] <TrogL> it's an E450 runing Solaris 8.  all patches up date
[22:56:16] <TrogL> SUNWsan with emulex cards
[22:57:37] <McBofh> TrogL: what do you have in /kernel/drv/fp.conf  for "mpxio-disable" ?
[22:58:10] <TrogL> nothing.  this is Solaris 8
[22:58:25] <McBofh> the OS rev should not matter here
[22:58:39] <McBofh> if you want mpxio turned on, then in your fp.conf you need to have              mpxio-disable="no";
[22:59:44] <McBofh> did you run "stmsboot -e" ?
[22:59:59] <TrogL> no, I"m doing this by hand
[23:00:00] <boyd> Hey, McBofh
[23:00:03] <McBofh> hi boyd
[23:00:15] <McBofh> TrogL: then make sure you add that property to fp.conf, then reboot
[23:00:24] <TrogL> I can't reboot.  that's the whole point
[23:00:30] <McBofh> then you can't enable mpxio
[23:00:37] <McBofh> full stop, no arguments .
[23:00:39] <McBofh> you *must* reboot
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[23:01:00] <McBofh> because you absolutely must edit fp.conf -- and changes to fp.conf will not become active without a reboot
[23:01:02] <syphilis> how come mpxio is disabled by default?
[23:01:03] <TrogL> and I don't want the qlogic cards to get the idea they can mpxio enable
[23:01:25] <McBofh> TrogL: perhaps you should go and rtfm on mpxio http://docs.sun.com/source/819-0139/ch_4_config_multi_SW.html is a very good reference
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[23:02:57] <TrogL> McBofh: I've got that in front of me
[23:03:01] <McBofh> great
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[23:03:24] <McBofh> have a good read of http://docs.sun.com/source/819-0139/ch_4_config_multi_SW.html#70686 as well
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[23:04:42] <TrogL> still sorting that out.  I've disabled the qlogics, but I'm not sure how to enable the Emulexes individually
[23:05:00] <TrogL> and my understanding is for solaris 8 I need to be doing scsi_vhci.conf, not fp.conf
[23:06:36] <jmc1> so what mechanism did you use to disable mpxio on the qlgc cards?
[23:06:57] <TrogL> modified /kernel/drv/qlc.conf
[23:07:16] <jmc1> and what method do you think you might want to use for the emulex cards?
[23:07:21] <TrogL> name="qlc" parent="/pci@8,600000" unit-address="2" mpxio-disable="yes";
[23:07:48] <syphilis> jmpcp: as you missed the beginning: he's not allowed to reboot
[23:08:08] <jmc1> syphilis: that's irrelevant to the question I just asked
[23:08:13] <TrogL> jmc1: modify scsi_vhci.conf
[23:08:14] <boyd> jmc1 is doing a reall Jekyll & Hyde thing ATM
[23:08:14] <syphilis> i know that
[23:08:45] *** jmc1 is now known as jmcp
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[23:09:16] <TrogL> probably do an entry soemthing like....
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[23:10:20] <TrogL> name="fp" parent="/pci@4,4000" "unit-address="3" mpxio-diable="no"
[23:10:47] <TrogL> although I agree that would make more sense fp.conf
[23:10:50] <TrogL> I'm just doing what I'm told
[23:11:41] <jmcp> well if you successfully disabled mpxio on qlc instances by using      name="qlc"    etc, why wouldn't you do a similar thing for emlxs?
[23:13:03] <jmcp> and anyway, if you are prevented from rebooting.... it's all moot
[23:13:36] <TrogL> 'cause this is a kernel parameter, right?
[23:13:59] <jmcp> TrogL: there's this whole "pattern" concept which you seem to be missing
[23:14:32] <richlowe> whoa
[23:14:45] <jmcp> hi richlowe
[23:15:39] <hile_> hey jmcp
[23:15:43] <jmcp> hi hile_
[23:15:52] <TrogL> I'm suspicious of that fp entry 'cause the format entries reads "/pci at 4,4000/fibre-channel@3/fp@0 dot 0 etc."
[23:16:16] <TrogL> why don't I have to put "fibre-channel" in the fp.conf entry?
[23:16:39] <TrogL> jcmp: help me see the light.  "pattern concept"?
[23:17:05] <jmcp> TrogL: with the qlc.conf you used    name="qlc"   ... so logically therefore you should use emlxs.conf with      name="emlxs"
[23:17:09] <jmcp> see the pattern?
[23:17:16] <TrogL> ah
[23:18:02] <TrogL> kewl
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[23:20:01] <TrogL>  jcmp: I was going on the driver name in "format" ie. qlc -> qlc, fp-> fp
[23:20:18] <jmcp> which is incorrect
[23:21:40] <jmcp> that's where RTFM helps
[23:22:48] <TrogL> (plaintively) I've been R'ing T F'ing M's - how do you think I got this far
[23:23:27] <jmcp> did you start with the mpxio docs that McBofh pointed you to?
[23:23:34] <TrogL> yes
[23:23:52] <TrogL> actually I started barking up the wrong tree with Emulex's documentation
[23:25:13] <TrogL> their driver doesn't do mpxio
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[23:29:18] <hile_> TrogL: what HBAs you using?
[23:29:28] <TrogL> then I tried mpxio-disable="no" in scsh_vhci.conf and the qulogic driver got ahold of it and disappeard half my drievs
[23:29:41] <TrogL> hile_ Emulex L10000's
[23:29:49] <hile_> why not use emlxs?
[23:29:59] <hile_> instead of lpfc?
[23:30:18] <TrogL> I am, I think.  I dropped lpfc whcn I found out wouldn't multiplex
[23:30:40] <hile_> well, it will... just not with mpxio
[23:31:08] <jmcp> yeah, it'll multipath if you use a $$$ solution
[23:31:13] <hile_> I've got multipathing and lpfc working fine
[23:31:33] <hile_> and i have it workin fine @ work too (well the admins do anyway)
[23:31:36] <hile_> Yay powerpath
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[23:34:38] <hspaans> hmmm powerpath
[23:34:39] <TrogL> yep. I'm using emlxs
[23:35:12] <TrogL> SAN_4.4.10_install_it put it in
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[23:41:54] * Tpenta yawns
[23:42:25] * gisburn tasers Tpenta
[23:42:29] <gisburn> Tpenta: better ?
[23:42:40] <gisburn> s/better/feel better/
[23:42:41] * jmcp watches Tpenta writhe in pain
[23:42:50] * Tpenta turns his head slowly and says "huh"?
[23:43:43] <boyd> Late night?
[23:43:44] <gisburn> The people in down under seem to be lazy all the time...
[23:44:06] <jmcp> gisburn: no, we just recognise that sometimes it's quite appropriate to get some sleep
[23:44:12] <jmcp> like, most nights of the week
[23:44:17] <gisburn> sleep ?
[23:44:20] <jmcp> unlike, fr'example, certain people who live in the EU ....
[23:44:27] * jmcp pokes out tongue @ gisburn
[23:44:34] <gisburn> Wasn't that EOL'ed and obsoleted by Sun with PSARC2003/871 ?
[23:44:44] <hspaans> jmcp: its still before 00h00 so? ;-0
[23:44:45] <Tpenta> boyd: late night, early morning
[23:45:00] <jmcp> hspaans: only just!
[23:45:06] * gisburn throws his tongue after jmcp
[23:45:27] * Tpenta puts a peg on gisburn's tongue while it's out
[23:45:34] <gisburn> peg=?
[23:45:45] <hspaans> jmcp: not when your clock is running in utc ;-)
[23:46:09] <gisburn> BTW: which timezone does the ISS use ?
[23:46:10] <Tpenta> clothes peg, you should now be in pain
[23:47:58] <hspaans> gisburn: wasn't ISS running geo?
[23:48:05] <gisburn> no
[23:48:21] <gisburn> ISS is AFAIK 400km while geo is 36000km
[23:48:40] * hspaans search for iis on wikipedia aaarrggghhh
[23:49:28] <gisburn> Ahhh, our boy who posted the hookers comment is back with an apology "... picked wrong entry in dictionary.... very sorry.. blabla..."
[23:49:39] <gisburn> troll
[23:50:22] <syphilis> where?
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[23:51:49] <gisburn> syphilis: one of our own mailinglists... he used this word to complain about our nurses at the university hospital. I've send a comment that I hope that this was a typo and that I would ban him from the list if this was intentional.
[23:52:56] * jmcp hits the codebase again ....
[23:53:41] <hspaans> gisburn: Orbits per day: 15.72 <--that thing goes fast ;-)
[23:55:02] <gisburn> sounds like 370km orbit average
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[23:58:42] <hspaans> hmmm Sun Solaris SPARC isn't going to run on x86. right?
[23:58:51] <asyd> right.
[23:59:12] <hspaans> then why is adobe offering me this as download
[23:59:56] <Tpenta> OMG: "kdump is especially significant since it represents the first crash dump tool accepted into the mainline kernel and we expect it to be really valuable for the kernel development team, permitting us to gather detailed information regarding kernel bugs from our worldwide testing team." [Andrew Morton]
[23:59:57] <Tpenta> This apparantly "Continuing to drive technology innovation into the Linux kernel"





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