[00:00:50] <Auralis> hrm, how does libumum compares perforamcewise to mtmalloc?
[00:12:08] <sommerfeld> ITYM libumem
[00:12:51] <sommerfeld> Auralis: I think it's a "generally better, but your milage may vary" thing.
[00:13:09] <twincest> yes, i'm just unable to spell it.  i typed it wrong in google too
[00:14:10] <boyd> Morning. all
[00:15:35] <boyd> Geez, only about 200m visibility here. And a noticable smell of smoke.
[00:16:56] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, just so long as at the 200m limit you don't see orange...
[00:17:16] <Auralis> sommerfeld: <nod>
[00:17:25] <boyd> Yeah...
[00:17:46] <Error_404> why does zpool scrub have to lie so?
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[00:18:12] <boyd> The fires are about 200-300km away, but there's 150000 hectares of them
[00:18:35] <sommerfeld> australian brushfire season again?
[00:18:54] <boyd> bushfire, yeah. If very early this year
[00:19:03] <boyd> 10 years of drought doesn't help
[00:19:57] <g4lt-mordant> boyd take solace in the fact that there's still fires in cali
[00:20:04] <Yamazaki-kun> ...
[00:20:07] <Yamazaki-kun> Wow.
[00:20:53] <boyd> Normally the peak of the season is in Feb, but they're anticipating that this weekend could be the worst conditions ever
[00:21:09] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: from summer?
[00:22:15] <g4lt-mordant> boyd no, new ones
[00:23:06] <boyd> phew :)
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[00:28:23] * jamesd_ is home now, so you will be seeing a lot more of my annoying nick and comments :-)
[00:28:58] <Error_404> and no more 9600 baud
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[00:29:14] <jamesd_> yes,  THANK god.
[00:29:25] <boyd> lol welcome back jamesd_
[00:29:58] <twincest> oh god, it's that annoying jamesd again
[00:31:20] <Error_404> I thought we were rid of him for sure this time
[00:31:21] <sommerfeld> Error_404: zpool scrub lie?  you mean in the completion estimates?
[00:31:24] <Error_404> and all that planning
[00:31:42] <Error_404> sommerfeld: yeah, it tells me something silly like 15 hours, and it's done a half hour later
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[00:32:51] <sommerfeld> i got an explanation for that at one point from a zfs developer
[00:33:11] <sommerfeld> apparently it judges the completion percentage by what percent of the zfs objects it's walked through
[00:33:26] <sommerfeld> but the actual time-to-scrub depends on their sizes
[00:33:53] <Error_404> makes sense
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[00:40:49] <Error_404> I don't suppose it is (will be in the forseeable future) possible to turn a single drive zpool in to a raidz
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[01:08:30] <sommerfeld> Error_404: not likely.  i would expect to see device removal before raidz-reshaping.
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[01:15:25] <Error_404> drats
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[01:16:15] <Error_404> at the very least it'd be nice if i could create a new raidz with a missing volume (ie, a degraded raidz straight off the bat) & copy stuff over
[01:16:24] <Error_404> then use my old drive to "fix" the degraded state
[01:16:47] <Error_404> raidz c0t0d0 c0t0d1 /dev/null
[01:18:54] <Error_404> or i could quit being a cheapskate & just buy 3 new (bigger) drives
[01:19:40] <bengtf> I want to install the Expert3d card in my blade 100, but when I try to install the SUNWifb the system crashes , is there a known workaround ?
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[01:32:57] <Auralis> use the ifb driver from the solaris media kit you installed the system with
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[01:42:01] <bengtf> Auralis: tried and it crashed when i installed the ifb in postinstall
[01:42:40] <bengtf> it is the build 53 version
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[01:46:13] <Auralis> maybe try in single user mode in the console, otherwise sorry
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[01:47:12] <alanc> I've never heard of the package install crashing
[01:47:22] <alanc> can't imagine what would cause that
[01:48:56] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[01:49:04] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry is DMA on?
[01:50:01] <bengtf> alanc it is probing the hardware in postinstall I guess and the system crashes with a panic
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[01:56:31] <edwardocallaghan> What hardware have you got?
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[02:00:36] <bengtf> edwardocallaghan: if you mean me, it is a blade100, that run sol9 with expert3d and I just installed build 53 on it, had to remove the card to be able to install, system panics when I try to install the driver
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[02:01:32] <edwardocallaghan> The SPARC version right?
[02:02:02] <edwardocallaghan> Stupid question but you are not installing the x86 build right?
[02:02:17] <alanc> there is no x86 build of the SUNWifb driver
[02:02:21] <bengtf> yep the sparc version ;), ultraIIe cpu
[02:02:41] <bengtf> the rest of the system is up and running
[02:02:44] <alanc> (there was one internally of SUNWjfb, but it never shipped)
[02:05:21] <bengtf> hmm, how do I check where the kernel crashed in the core file from the crash
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[02:07:50] <edwardocallaghan> Not sure if it's the same but dmesg
[02:08:12] <edwardocallaghan> Do you mean a Blade 1000 or 100?
[02:08:44] <bengtf> just a blade100 the old one yes
[02:09:01] <bengtf> 500mhz u2e cpu
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[02:09:42] <edwardocallaghan> Should they not be well supported by now?
[02:10:02] <edwardocallaghan> Hmmm, ps how does it compare to a p3 for example?
[02:10:43] <bengtf> got this from the core:
[02:10:54] <bengtf2> physmem fa1b
[02:10:55] <bengtf2> vpanic(127ade8, 300000c7850, 0, 2, fffffffffffffffd, 1856400)
[02:10:56] <bengtf2> pbm_error_intr+0x138(3000009fa80, 127ac00, 300000b5ce8, 0, 3000009f580,
[02:10:57] <bengtf2> 2a10007ff20)
[02:10:59] <bengtf2> current_thread+0x168(3000303c780, 0, 2a100cb33d0, 0, 0, 2a100cb33d8)
[02:11:01] <bengtf2> pci_config_put16+0x1c(0, 183dc00, 3e494, 3e496, 2, 18a7990)
[02:11:03] <bengtf2> ifb_attach+0x1860(30000367700, 4c00, 0, 16000000, 70000, 70000)
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[02:12:23] <edwardocallaghan> bad ram?
[02:13:15] <bengtf> shouldnt be, its one 512M ram and is working without a problem sofar
[02:14:16] <delewis> use SunVTS
[02:14:23] <delewis> and do the physical memory test
[02:14:49] <delewis> that'll elliminate physical memory being the problem
[02:17:16] <bengtf> which cd is that on ..., wasnt installed automatically
[02:17:34] <delewis> it's no longer shipped with Solaris
[02:17:39] <delewis> but you can download it from Sun
[02:17:41] <delewis> just Google around for it
[02:17:54] <twincest> sunvts isn't on the media?
[02:18:15] <delewis> twincest, not with Solaris 10, as far as I know
[02:18:22] <delewis> with Solaris 8 and 9 it was shipped as Extra Value
[02:18:44] <edwardocallaghan> a handy application for diagnostics and stress testing Sun hardware
[02:19:07] <delewis> quite handy, especially for testing physical memory and processor failures
[02:19:31] <delewis> it'll make sure the system is being 100% utilized
[02:19:36] <edwardocallaghan> Why is it not shipit any more?
[02:19:42] <delewis> edwardocallaghan, no clue
[02:19:47] <delewis> but like I said, you can still download it
[02:20:03] <alanc> I thought sunvts was still shipped in S10
[02:20:41] <twincest> i thought i remember seeing it on the dvd too
[02:20:50] <alanc> it's in Solaris_10/ExtraValue/CoBundled/SunVTS_6.3 in the s10u3 install image on our install server
[02:21:21] * jteo takes notes
[02:21:28] <alanc> yeah - and in all the S10 releases, the version number just changes for each one
[02:21:42] <edwardocallaghan>  Before you run SunVTS<font size="3">?, it is extremely important to remember that it is *very*</font>
[02:21:42] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">system intensive.  CPU testing will drive the load up, memory testing may</font>
[02:21:42] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">prohibit other programs from starting properly, graphics testing may make the</font>
[02:21:42] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">console unusable for a few minutes, etc.  Its best to run SunVTS? on a quiet</font>
[02:21:42] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">system.  Note that it must be run on runlevel 3.  Single user will not work.</font>
[02:22:06] <delewis> yeah, you don't want to run SunVTS on a production system :-)
[02:22:15] <alanc> dammit, I broke my Ferrari
[02:22:34] <alanc> won't start X any more
[02:22:48] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">Why?</font>
[02:23:06] <bengtf> is it shipped with SXCR ? the one on sun is 6.2ps1
[02:23:54] <alanc> it's there in the nevada images, so should be in SXCR
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[02:26:17] <jteo> morn stevel.
[02:26:18] <richlowe> Hm.
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[02:26:23] <stevel> evening
[02:26:33] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">hehe</font>
[02:26:35] <jmcp> hi
[02:26:43] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">Hi</font>
[02:26:50] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: why are you fontifying everything?
[02:26:53] <stevel> hey rich, jmcp
[02:26:56] <richlowe> stevel: hey.
[02:26:57] <jmcp> hi stevel
[02:26:57] <jteo> wb jmcp.
[02:26:58] <stevel> edwardocallaghan: knock off the html tags
[02:27:01] <jmcp> hi jteo, richlowe
[02:27:16] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">What HTML ?</font>
[02:27:18] <richlowe> I don't seem to have had any list mail since earlier this morning.
[02:27:30] <stevel> richlowe: mailman got bogged down processing many thousands of emails
[02:27:40] <stevel> and then sendmail got bogged down sending out many thousands of emails
[02:27:51] <richlowe> stevel: so, you did an hg import, huh? ;)
[02:27:56] <alanc> everything you type comes through as &lt;font size="3"&gt;What HTML ?&lt;/font&gt;
[02:27:57] <stevel> no, not me again
[02:28:10] <alanc> maybe something in your client?  I think I've seen gaim do those
[02:28:11] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">Am I sending HTML ? Sorry, I am using a beta of Gaim ?</font>
[02:28:19] <jteo> well that's good to hear stevel ;)
[02:28:42] <alanc> it started when you pasted the SunVTS docs
[02:28:52] <edwardocallaghan> <font size="3">Oh 1sec</font>
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[02:29:18] <edwardocallaghan> Is this better?
[02:29:22] <jmcp> much better
[02:29:24] <jmcp> thanks
[02:29:31] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry lads I did not know
[02:29:52] <edwardocallaghan> Should have told me earlier, very sorry
[02:30:45] <edwardocallaghan> So Gaim 2.0Beta needs some improvements then I guess
[02:31:50] <springfield> HTML should be for a web browser and nothing else
[02:31:59] <edwardocallaghan> Indeed
[02:32:08] <springfield> who still uses <font /> tags anyway?!
[02:32:11] <edwardocallaghan> Not for gaim, that's for sure
[02:32:22] <edwardocallaghan> PHP thanks
[02:32:41] <bengtf> alanc strange, it is vts 6.2 in the Extra in b53 ?
[02:32:54] <Error_404> springfield: web designers that should be fired?
[02:33:03] <edwardocallaghan> http://80.177.99.151/ I am doing this site for someone, what's do you guys think?
[02:33:10] <springfield> Error_404: ding! another point for 404
[02:33:17] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[02:33:20] <alanc> bengtf: yeah, I saw that - don't know why S10u3 has newer than nevada
[02:33:25] <stevel> <span style="{font-size: 48pt;}">yeah, font tags have no place in irc</span>
[02:33:28] <stevel> ;-)
[02:33:39] <bengtf> oops only the package info is wrong it installs 6.3b4
[02:33:50] <alanc> <blink>there are worse tags you could use</blink>
[02:34:05] <stevel> lol
[02:34:56] <springfield> <marque><blink>yea, I guess</blink></marque>
[02:35:15] <stevel> sigh
[02:35:16] <springfield> I really hope that is rendering in an IRC client somewhere
[02:35:29] * stevel sends another apology note to on-all
[02:35:40] <richlowe> [2027] <stevel> no, not me again
[02:35:45] <stevel> it wasn't me
[02:35:46] <richlowe> changed your mind? :)
[02:35:50] <stevel> i maintain it wasn't me
[02:35:51] <jmcp> springfield: you're missing an e off "marquee"
[02:35:58] <richlowe> Oh, then why is it your doing the apology? :)
[02:36:00] <stevel> it's really more of an explanation note
[02:36:05] <richlowe> Ah.
[02:36:12] <stevel> richlowe: cause nobody else is, and people keep asking derek and me what's going on
[02:36:28] <springfield> jmcp: so I am
[02:36:37] * jmcp pedants
[02:37:00] <Error_404> If you're really looking for the the worst of the web, google "my first website", in quotes
[02:37:21] <edwardocallaghan> 503 The server can not be bothered to server any more HTML tags
[02:37:51] <edwardocallaghan> Ah yes the top of the list is msn.com
[02:37:57] <edwardocallaghan> I am looking at it now
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[02:38:38] <bengtf> started sunvts and got panic pci error
[02:38:57] <Error_404> actually, my first webpage works better than website
[02:39:23] <Error_404> oh yeah, here we go
[02:39:25] <Error_404> real beauty
[02:39:30] <Error_404> http://webpages.marshall.edu/~yeager10/
[02:39:59] <edwardocallaghan> My eyes what have you done?
[02:40:30] <edwardocallaghan> I like the Calculator though hehe...
[02:41:22] <Error_404> take that, tim burners-lee
[02:42:18] <bengtf> Error_404: should I run your page through the WAI test ;)
[02:43:03] <Error_404> that's not my page
[02:43:24] <g4lt-mordant> Error_404, you do realize that your page violates the geneva convention? ;P
[02:43:29] <Error_404> lol
[02:43:38] <Kmays> :D
[02:43:39] <g4lt-mordant> okay, linking to that page
[02:44:15] <stevel> okay time for me to run to dinner
[02:44:20] <stevel> 'night folks
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[02:45:59] <edwardocallaghan> Night
[02:46:28] <bengtf> well sunvts didnt help , got panic pci-error when starting it ...
[02:55:45] <edwardocallaghan> I think the system is dead :(
[02:56:15] <edwardocallaghan> You can get a Blade1000 off ebay for about 200quid and that's really cheap
[02:56:32] <jteo> that's relative to where you live.
[02:56:52] <edwardocallaghan> bengtf:Where abouts are you?
[02:57:00] <Error_404> anysystem's getting rid of them for about $200 or so as well
[02:57:27] <edwardocallaghan> Really that's like 100quid !
[02:57:46] <Error_404> oh, i lied
[02:57:51] <Error_404> $295
[02:58:06] <Error_404> for $100 more you can get a U60
[02:58:20] <springfield> edwardocallaghan: better, the dollar is weak at the moment
[02:58:27] 
[02:58:29] <sommerfeld> i thought the exchange rate for computer gear was more like 1:1 (gear which sells for $N in the US typically sells for N quid in the UK...) :-)
[02:59:02] <edwardocallaghan> New yes
[02:59:07] <edwardocallaghan> On ebay no
[02:59:08] <sommerfeld> (regardless of the "regular" exchange rate)
[02:59:29] <jteo> intriguing.
[03:00:53] <edwardocallaghan> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=9741359630&rd=1&rd=1 Here is a steal
[03:01:12] <Error_404> neat, 13 grand for an e10k
[03:01:19] <bengtf> edwardocallaghan: in sweden
[03:02:01] <springfield> nice, "144 gb of memory"
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[03:02:31] <bengtf> could use that in my origin 2400 ;)
[03:02:32] <edwardocallaghan> I did not know they had quad core SPARC's ???
[03:02:57] <alanc> ever hear of niagra?
[03:03:06] <bengtf> sunvts test says mem ok, after I removed the SUNWifb ...
[03:04:30] <edwardocallaghan> Yes
[03:04:41] <edwardocallaghan> But it says Ultra 3's
[03:05:00] <edwardocallaghan> As in UltraSPARC III
[03:05:21] <edwardocallaghan> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120058371361&rd=1&rd=1 What do you guys vote on the price of this?
[03:05:30] <edwardocallaghan> I was going to get it
[03:08:46] <bengtf> off to see 3am movie now ;)
[03:10:15] <dlg> mmmblade2k
[03:10:34] <bengtf> mmmm to noisy
[03:12:07] <edwardocallaghan> What do you think of the spec/price
[03:12:24] <edwardocallaghan> How do you think it would compare to a P4 ?
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[03:12:44] <edwardocallaghan> I was thinking of buying it as a Workstation for collage
[03:13:06] <dlg> depends on what you're doing
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[03:13:36] <edwardocallaghan> Sure but, what's your overview
[03:14:16] <edwardocallaghan> I have not been lucky enother yet to own a 1Ghz SPARC
[03:14:22] <dlg> i dunno, i havent bought a computer for ages
[03:15:02] <edwardocallaghan> I am interested to compare this system to a base config of a P4
[03:15:32] <dlg> for doing what though?
[03:17:03] <dwc-> hmmmm
[03:17:11] <dwc-> $750?
[03:17:16] <dwc-> you could get a reallllly nice system for $750
[03:17:40] <dwc-> or sorry, $835, counting shipping
[03:17:51] <edwardocallaghan> Mathematica
[03:18:25] <g4lt-mordant> you could prolly catch a blade2000 for $750 on epay
[03:18:30] <edwardocallaghan> So you don't think its worth the money
[03:18:36] <dwc-> that is a blade 2000 on ebay for 750
[03:18:41] <dwc-> I don't
[03:19:03] <edwardocallaghan> Would that spec not be fast though?
[03:19:20] <edwardocallaghan> 2x 1ghz Ultra's
[03:19:28] <g4lt-mordant> it's right about right, if a bit high.  if you wanted to play the market, you could prolly get one for $500, but it'd take about two months of hunting
[03:19:55] <dwc-> I'd personally rather have a dual core laptop for college
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[03:20:04] <dwc-> I'd get a junker if all I was making was a collage
[03:20:05] <delewis> a Blade 2000 with 1GHz procs is a steal for $750
[03:20:18] <delewis> you should be able to find one with 900MHz procs for around $500
[03:20:18] <hile_> oh fuck yeah.
[03:20:22] <delewis> and anything less than that, hit the SB1000s
[03:21:29] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.wolfram.com/news/ultrasparc.html
[03:22:07] <edwardocallaghan> But that has two cores !
[03:22:19] <edwardocallaghan> I though it was a steal ?
[03:22:24] <edwardocallaghan> Am I wrong?
[03:22:33] <dwc-> I dunno, I'd probably get a dell
[03:22:42] <dwc-> dual core athlon 64 3800+ for $389
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[03:23:06] <edwardocallaghan> You mean Hell
[03:23:09] <dwc-> yes
[03:23:13] <gustav3d> hehe
[03:23:22] <dwc-> but I can't build systems for much cheaper than that these days
[03:23:29] <delewis> Blade 1000s and 2000s are rock-solid systems
[03:23:36] <delewis> well worth $750 and under
[03:23:51] <le_rosminet> hi there
[03:23:52] <delewis> disk IO is pretty amazing on them, too, given the internal FC
[03:24:13] <jteo> delewis, they're niche systems only we would be fans of. :)
[03:24:16] <delewis> and very expandable
[03:24:27] <dwc-> I don't think of it as 750, since it has $85 shipping
[03:24:31] <delewis> up to 8GB of memory and 2x1.2GHz UltraSPARC-III CU procs
[03:24:34] <g4lt-mordant> dwc you could prolly grab one of gdamore's lappies ;P
[03:24:45] <delewis> though, the 1.2GHz procs are pricey
[03:24:55] <delewis> you'd be better off buying a Blade 2000 with them than purchasing them standalone
[03:26:04] <dwc-> g4lt-mordant: I have a tadpole
[03:26:33] <g4lt-mordant> I need to get a better one, this powerlite sucks
[03:27:06] <dwc-> I have a sparcle 650
[03:28:17] <dwc-> seriously though, I got a lot more use out of a mobile system than my desktop when I was at school
[03:28:38] <edwardocallaghan> Or I may, if I can afford it, get a T1 8core and backend things
[03:29:13] <dwc-> if I had 750 and I was going to school with no computer, I'd probably get looking at another thinkpad, or one of the dual core dells .... but probably the thinkpad
[03:30:03] <dwc-> as nice as a sb2k would be....
[03:30:14] <le_rosminet> I have just installed solaris on an amd64 platform and  after 2-3 minutes after the boot the console diseapeard (black screen) and my keyboard/mouse are disabled ... I can't do anything, will you have an idea from where can come the problem from ?
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[03:34:03] <dwc-> I dunno, shot in the dark... turn off power management in the bios?
[03:34:37] <delewis> I'd disagree with portability being more useful, especially in a school environment
[03:34:55] <delewis> most of the our class rooms have computers, so I can just use SSGD and connect to my systems at home
[03:35:13] <edwardocallaghan> SSGD?
[03:35:20] <dwc-> global desktop
[03:35:21] <delewis> Sun Secure Global Desktop
[03:35:22] <edwardocallaghan> Oh
[03:35:25] <edwardocallaghan> Yes sorry
[03:35:26] <delewis> a.k.a Tarantella
[03:35:32] <edwardocallaghan> I got it as I hit enter :p
[03:35:39] <le_rosminet> ok may be, i will try
[03:35:40] <dwc-> well, we had computers in labs
[03:35:44] <dwc-> but not in lectures
[03:35:51] <dwc-> and not in !cs classes
[03:35:52] <delewis> that's true
[03:36:13] <edwardocallaghan> x86 is every where and no I am not getting a H(D)ell
[03:36:36] * hile_ envisions delewis taking notes in LaTex
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[03:36:50] <delewis> I'm guilty of that :-(
[03:36:54] <jteo> deadtree: always on, instant response.
[03:36:58] <edwardocallaghan> I should not be even on the market ! There power supplies don't meet all the standards in the UK :O
[03:36:59] <delewis> on more than one occasion
[03:37:13] <pdkl> im trying to figure out what to download
[03:37:14] <delewis> I compose all of my documents in LaTeX, too
[03:37:31] <pdkl> we had a proposal come in to port some software to solaris
[03:37:36] <delewis> I just want to laugh whenever I see someone writing their own bibliography without hte power of BibTeX :-)
[03:37:43] <delewis> "you poor soul"
[03:38:06] <hile_> I still use *roff for most things that don't use metric fucktons of math
[03:38:13] <hile_> math-heavy papers get TeX
[03:38:18] <hile_> or AMSTeX
[03:38:55] <jteo> pdkl, S10
[03:38:56] <pdkl> If someone is going to download solaris,  and run it inside vmware, which one? nextena, SXCR? or ?
[03:39:08] <delewis> I use LaTeX mostly for BibTeX
[03:39:19] <delewis> which is something that I don't think *roff has an equivalent of
[03:39:20] <edwardocallaghan> Solaris
[03:39:27] <jteo> pdkl, are you porting to Solaris, or one of the distributions?
[03:39:36] <pdkl> porting to solaris
[03:39:51] <jteo> jteo, SXCR
[03:40:27] <jteo> pdkl, SXCR.
[03:40:29] <jteo> (doh)
[03:44:25] <edwardocallaghan> Been thinking to port this to Solaris http://www.songbirdnest.com/
[03:45:58] <edwardocallaghan> Will start as soon as I have a site up
[03:46:32] <edwardocallaghan> Anyone who has Apache up, that can get me up a site ASAP please?
[03:49:10] <dwc-> why do you need a site to port anything
[03:49:15] <dwc-> and why don't you have your own apache?
[03:52:28] <edwardocallaghan> I am moving so don't have the money to get a server up right now
[03:53:30] <edwardocallaghan> I would like to make a bit of a project out of Solaris and making a package manager and port some nice GPL apps over
[03:54:03] <edwardocallaghan> Just something to backend pkg commands to the shell
[03:54:45] <Error_404> like blastwave?
[03:55:45] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I will link to them
[03:56:25] <edwardocallaghan> I would like to build a small community
[03:57:43] <Error_404> no, i mean there *is* a pacakage manager full of GPL apps
[03:57:46] <Error_404> it's blastwave
[03:57:53] <edwardocallaghan> But a website would help keep everything in order I don't want to see my projects ending up like a Linux with another distro of my package man...hehe
[03:58:10] <edwardocallaghan> I know
[03:58:32] <Error_404> basically i can't see what your doing other than re-inventing blastwave
[03:58:33] <edwardocallaghan> I mean a really nice GUI that uses the site and pkg commands ect...
[03:59:03] <edwardocallaghan> I am not reinventing anything
[03:59:20] <edwardocallaghan> Because I hate it when people do that
[03:59:30] <edwardocallaghan> I guess you will have to see
[03:59:45] <Error_404> *shrug* i'll just use blastwave
[04:00:48] <edwardocallaghan> This software is probley not for you anyway
[04:01:37] <edwardocallaghan> I was also thinking of doing a 'Solaris Magazine' in PDF's on my site
[04:01:50] <jteo> i was thinking of buying a pony too.
[04:02:11] <Error_404> heh
[04:02:22] <Error_404> edwardocallaghan: go to freshmeat. pick a random project
[04:02:26] <Error_404> see how far they got
[04:02:57] <Error_404> odds are they might've started something & gave up when they realized that creating stuff takes actual work
[04:03:01] <Error_404> and sometimes it's not fun
[04:04:12] <edwardocallaghan> I know
[04:04:47] <Error_404> successful projects tend not to start with notions of "I want to create a community that does blah"
[04:04:56] <edwardocallaghan> I got someone who want to be on the team who is a project manager. So he will handle things
[04:05:09] <Error_404> they start with someone staying up all night on account of they have a need for something
[04:05:15] <edwardocallaghan> OK then don't help
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[04:05:48] <edwardocallaghan> I am still going to do it though
[04:06:09] <edwardocallaghan> If you think I am or not, that's your problem
[04:06:27] <edwardocallaghan> I look forward to start
[04:07:47] <edwardocallaghan> Oh I will have to wait until some one offers me a server or that very kind guy from blastware can put up my site for me.
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[04:08:25] <edwardocallaghan> I may use one of them Ultra 10's I got as a server
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[04:09:29] <Error_404> dennis started blastwave on an ultra1
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[04:11:32] <edwardocallaghan> No, it should be fine I know
[04:11:47] <edwardocallaghan> Just cash and knowing that its not going to go down
[04:11:58] <edwardocallaghan> As I will be in Australia
[04:12:22] <edwardocallaghan> Question: Can you put a ILOM in a Ultra 10?
[04:12:27] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: no
[04:12:35] <edwardocallaghan> :(
[04:12:35] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: when are you making your way to Oz?
[04:12:37] <pdkl> any sane reason why xorg.conf is not in /etc/X11/ ?
[04:12:47] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:12:52] <jmcp> pdkl: because *you* haven't created it
[04:13:05] <jmcp> pdkl: look for /etc/X11/.xorg.conf
[04:13:10] <jteo> pdkl, by default Xorg auto-detects the settings and runs without xorg.conf
[04:13:11] <pdkl> just confused here...
[04:13:24] <jmcp> confusion is fine :)
[04:13:56] <pdkl> init 3  is mutliuser w/o X?
[04:13:58] <jmcp> pdkl: by default you'll get an autogenerated xorg.conf. If you want to customise it then copy that version to /etc/X11/xorg.conf and edit
[04:13:59] <jmcp> no
[04:14:08] <jmcp> pdkl: this ain't the same thing
[04:14:13] <Error_404> edwardocallaghan: I should warn you though, package dependency resolution is hard
[04:14:18] <Error_404> as in, NP hard
[04:14:25] <pdkl> ill just do X -configure
[04:14:31] <pdkl> if i can drop it out of X
[04:14:46] <jmcp> which release are you running? s10 or solaris express?
[04:14:50] <edwardocallaghan> I know !!! Tell me about it
[04:15:12] <Error_404> people with PhD's in math work w/ the various linux distros and still can't do it properly
[04:15:13] <pdkl> i have a nexenta vmware machine im playing with, until SXCR is finished downloading
[04:15:20] <jmcp> ah
[04:15:22] <jmcp> ok ...
[04:15:25] <jmcp> try "svcadm disable cde-login"
[04:15:32] <jmcp> or "svcadm disable dtlogin"
[04:15:38] <edwardocallaghan> I have some un-though of ideas though ! ;)
[04:15:46] <jbk> Error_404: and put things in /var that have no business being there :)
[04:15:47] <Error_404> i have very little hope that you'll be able to figgure it out
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[04:15:54] <jmcp> pdkl: I'm not sure what nexenta is calling the X service
[04:16:11] <Error_404> I have yet to see a resolver that works properly
[04:16:27] * jmcp tries to think of a corny pun about resolving ....
[04:16:28] * jmcp fails
[04:16:59] <pdkl> gdm
[04:17:00] <bumm> I notice that entries inside /etc/inet/hosts seem to be ignored.  The system seems to use entries in /etc/inet/ipnodes  only.  Is this usual ?
[04:17:01] <pdkl> :P
[04:17:22] <jmcp> pdkl: ah ... well "svcadm disable gdm" migh work for you
[04:17:31] <jmcp> bumm: yes ... I think so
[04:17:32] <edwardocallaghan> Well why resolve that's the secure
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[04:17:35] <ddunham> hosts should still be used, but ipnodes entries will override any in hosts.
[04:17:38] <jbk> bumm: values are searched for in ipnodes first, then hosts
[04:17:47] <ddunham> You should keep hosts and ipnodes in sync (or just symlink them)
[04:17:56] <jbk> though, i thought i read (with much rejoycing) that ipnodes was going away
[04:17:59] <jteo> wasn't there a PSARC to fix the ipnode issue?
[04:18:02] <boyd> In current builds ipnodes -> hosts
[04:18:03] <jmcp> jteo: yeah
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[04:18:18] <hile_> hey jmcp
[04:18:21] <jmcp> hi hile_
[04:18:32] <boyd> It's been there for about 7-8 builds IIRC
[04:18:33] <bumm> boyd,  currently  /etc/hosts  is a sym link from /etc/inet/hosts
[04:18:36] <boyd> hey jmcp
[04:18:39] <jmcp> hi boyd
[04:18:43] <jteo> wb boyd
[04:18:46] <jmcp> boyd: how's the smoking habit coming along?
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[04:18:57] <boyd> Still inhaling :)
[04:19:02] <jmcp> :)
[04:19:04] <edwardocallaghan> Hi boyd
[04:19:15] <pdkl> there a cheat sheet for this? :P
[04:19:20] <boyd> in current builds both /etc/hosts and /etc/inet/ipnodes are symlinks to /etc/inet/hosts
[04:19:29] <boyd> Hi edwardocallaghan, jteo, all
[04:19:49] <edwardocallaghan> I think I am starting to recognize the regulars here
[04:19:54] <boyd> :)
[04:19:59] <hile_> jmcp: one of my tactical instructors: "never ceases to amaze me that pepole will come to leearn how to keep themselves alive witha cigarette hanging out their mouth"
[04:20:09] <bumm> also, at the beginning  of  /etc/inet/ipnodes, there's a line   ::1   localhost   , anybody know what this is for ?
[04:20:22] <hile_> localhost in ipv6?
[04:20:25] <ddunham> ::1 is an IPv6 address.
[04:20:26] <bumm> oh ahhh
[04:20:43] <bumm> thanks all
[04:20:47] <jmcp> hile_: yes, I've noticed that
[04:21:03] <hile_> FFs I can forgive
[04:21:20] <hile_> but others, not on your life
[04:21:21] <boyd> hile_: The smoke in question is from the 170000 hectares of bushfires that are 200km upwinds from here
[04:21:40] <hile_> ah
[04:23:00] <Error_404> hile_: why not? smoking cuts your life short
[04:23:07] <jmcp> hile_: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/firefighters-prepare-for-worst/2006/12/09/1165081185498.html
[04:23:07] <Error_404> but not as short as bullets
[04:23:14] <hile_> ah
[04:26:52] <edwardocallaghan> And stress from computers even shorter :D
[04:27:13] <jmcp> boyd: I see from The Age that you're calling for help from NZ as well
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[04:27:56] <jmcp> pretty animation, though scary: http://www.theage.com.au/flash/alpinethreat/
[04:33:53] <boyd> jmcp: Yeah, They shipped a bunch of people in in the last few days
[04:34:17] <boyd> jmcp: I hadn't seen that
[04:34:50] <jmcp> I don't think I really wanted to see it either
[04:34:57] <jmcp> the projection for Sunday ... bad news
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[04:36:08] <edwardocallaghan> :(
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[04:49:29] <edwardocallaghan> Why does every distro try and put your bloody refresh rate up at 100 odd Hz !?
[04:50:13] <edwardocallaghan> Default to 60 for installs and let the user set it g'sss :p
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[06:30:50] <Error_404> Neat, sun sent me a solaris10 6/06 media kit
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[06:40:51] <axisys> since iSCSI still not available .. has anyone used EtherDrive?
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[06:49:15] <Auralis> Error_404: the free media kit from last month stuff?
[06:51:03] <Error_404> yes
[06:51:22] <Error_404> i just found it in my mailbox today
[06:51:25] <Auralis> cool, i wonder how long it will take to reach germany :)
[06:51:41] <Error_404> i'm in canada
[06:51:47] <Error_404> so... if that means anything
[06:52:31] * Auralis nods
[06:55:13] <jmcp> Error_404: it means you're cold
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[07:13:32] <Error_404> what's with freenode today?
[07:19:16] <richlowe> they just upgraded/restarted everything.
[07:19:23] <richlowe> there was a global notice a few minutes before they did it.
[07:19:42] <Error_404> damnable irssi_proxy
[07:28:32] <jteo> touch and go there for a minute. ;)
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[07:41:42] * ShadowHntr must be the only person on earth that still uses BitchX. :P
[07:50:05] <Error_404> irssi is nicer, IMO
[07:50:10] <Error_404> *shrug*
[08:01:00] * dwc- uses bx
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[10:08:37] <bougie> hello :)
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[10:50:15] <whaq> hello
[10:50:27] <whaq> Does solaris support Intel Core2Duo?
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[10:53:29] <Fish> hello
[10:55:04] <Triskelios> whaq: of course
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[11:02:38] <jmcp> whaq: in 64bit mode too, iirc
[11:04:18] <LeftWing> Intel's Pentium D works on 64-bit mode, I imagine it wouldn't be much of a stretch for the Core 2 Duo to do so as well.
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[11:16:26] <richlowe> Whoa
[11:18:20] <LeftWing> Whoa?
[11:18:38] <richlowe> oh, noticed the mail backlog/load cleared.
[11:18:47] <jmcp> yeah, I noticed that too
[11:18:54] <jmcp> I was beginning to feel unloved :)
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[11:31:22] <onbot> commit by ep32863:  6485604 kssl hangs under SPECweb2005-banking
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[11:58:52] <onbot> commit by Govinda Tatti:  6501187 sun4v interrupt trap handler should check for spurious interrupts
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[12:32:06] <axisys> since iSCSI still not available .. has anyone used EtherDrive?
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[12:35:15] <jteo> onbot is nice.
[12:35:16] <onbot> jteo: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
[12:35:21] <jteo> ...
[12:36:12] * jmcp chuckles
[12:36:17] * jmcp laughs @ onbot
[12:37:52] <jmcp> awww
[12:37:57] <jmcp> onbot: please come out and play again
[12:38:10] <onbot> jmcp: Error: "please" is not a valid command.
[12:39:22] * jmcp grins
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[12:41:20] <jteo> jmcp, grr
[12:41:27] <jmcp> jteo: ??
[12:42:20] <twincest> apparently, the linux function that receives a packet from the NIC to queue considers 'packet dropped' as not failing
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[12:50:37] <Berny> righty... spare sc updated on to the main sc (i really should have brought my serial cable...)
[12:50:49] <jmcp> twincest: it's just tuned in, turned on and dropped out. But a failure ... that would require turning up more
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[13:18:15] <twincest> JDS needs to include this: http://www.exaile.org/
[13:18:21] <twincest> finally a decent audio plyer for gnome :-P
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[14:03:43] <_william_> hi all
[14:05:00] <jmcp> hi _william_
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[14:05:16] <_william_> hi jcsmith
[14:05:21] <_william_> hi jmcp
[14:05:27] <_william_> key inversion :)
[14:05:44] <jmcp> :)
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[14:06:17] <jmcp> almost the home stretch now - only have captions to do for 155 photos
[14:06:32] *** _william_ has joined #opensolaris
[14:06:35] <_william_> oops
[14:14:20] <Berny> hmm
[14:14:37] <Berny> why does dladm create-aggr -P L4 -d ce0 -d ce1 1  fail with this message:
[14:14:44] <Berny> dladm: create operation failed: No such file or directory (invalid interface name)
[14:21:33] <Berny> .oO(and yes ce0 and ce1 are there and plumbed)
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[14:24:49] <andersmo> Berny: I think I'd truss a little and see if some system call returns ENOENT and whether the parameters to that system call yield some insight into exactly what dladm expected to find. =)
[14:25:21] <andersmo> or, rather, if some system call returns -1 and errno is ENOENT. =)
[14:28:28] <Berny> hmm, only for some libs (but it finds these in other directories)
[14:29:44] <andersmo> Well, I've never used dladm, so I can't offer any insight beyond brute force truss. Sorry. =)
[14:29:57] <Berny> bugger
[14:31:39] <andersmo> Hm. The dladm manpage is a wee bit inconsistent. The command synopsis specifies using one "-d" parameter for each interface to be used in aggregation like you wrote above, but the example at the bottom goes like this: "# dladm create-aggr -d bge0 bge1 1"
[14:33:40] <Berny> it wants -d for each interface
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[14:35:59] <Berny> bugger
[14:36:24] <Berny> Interfaces must be of the GLDv3 type: xge, e1000g, and bge.
[14:36:50] <jmcp> Berny: I don't think ceX are gldv3
[14:36:57] <jmcp> which is both a good and bad thing
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[14:41:28] <richlowe> Common wisdom is that anything involving ce(7D) is bad. ;)
[14:41:45] <Berny> grr
[14:41:56] <richlowe> or at least, I can't think of a positive comment regarding the driver in here (from anyone that's seen it)
[14:43:16] <jmcp> richlowe: you're correct on that
[14:43:24] <richlowe> Nemo Unification should take care of it as far as letting dladm work with non-nemo drivers, however.
[14:43:39] <Berny> that's year from now for sol10 ;-)
[14:43:43] <richlowe> I think it's one of the many different faces of the clearview bits.
[14:43:44] <Berny> so lets get sun trunking
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[14:54:10] <edwardocallaghan> My dog ran away with the README ...
[14:54:17] <edwardocallaghan> :(
[14:54:23] <edwardocallaghan> hehe Hi guys
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[15:00:35] <Berny> .oO(i haven't had so many reboots in years)
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[15:02:03] <Berny> .oO(couldn't you just write gldv3 driver for ce? *duck*)
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[15:52:30] <springfield> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0HyxQv97Q&eurl=
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[15:58:18] <hell`> Berny, you can still trunk with sun trunking software for old interfaces
[16:00:45] <Berny> hell`: i'm on it
[16:00:51] <Berny> strike
[16:01:12] <Berny> ok, walk down the building and put the cable back on the ce's
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[16:12:44] <Berny> hmm
[16:12:51] <Berny> aggregation seems to work...
[16:12:52] <Berny> but
[16:13:01] <Berny>  mars ip: WARNING: IP: Hardware address '00:03:ba:07:b7:c8' trying to be our address 149.203.091.001!
[16:13:18] <Berny> how's that? that mac is the mac of the aggr
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[16:21:44] <Berny> ok, off to the next box
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[16:26:10] <Berny> let there be silcence
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[16:34:35] <Berny> hopefully this was the last reboot...
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[16:51:23] <Berny> hi steleman
[16:51:40] <steleman> hiya berny
[16:51:55] <steleman> :-)
[16:52:02] <Berny> how's the kde stuff going?
[16:53:07] <twincest> what's special about a 768-byte ethernet frame?  for some reason this IP stack drops packets any longer than that
[16:53:59] <springfield> qq
[16:54:08] <springfield> oops, sorry, wrong window
[16:54:29] <jamesd_> twincest, what is your mtu set at?
[16:54:43] <twincest> 1500, it's ethernet
[16:55:58] <delewis> great. now, Solaris is being accused of having a broken signal implementation.
[16:56:26] <delewis> (mplayer is executing VIS code on sun4m and the SIGILL disposition is never being set to anything but the default, according to psig)
[16:56:42] <delewis> ShadowJK But if it's crashing for you, then there's something that's broken on SunOS but not NetBSD :)
[16:57:34] <delewis> ideally, MPlayer should catch SIGILL, disable VIS, and set the default disposition back
[16:57:35] <twincest> shadowjk = finnish guy?
[16:57:40] <delewis> twincest, yeah.
[16:57:45] <twincest> heh, i know him ;-)
[17:04:49] <twincest> haha, found the problem, it was out of memory.  stupid embedded software
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[17:07:17] <jamesd_> delewis, you would have to create a parent process to catch the death of a child and fix that stuff....  SIGKILL is fatal
[17:07:52] <Stric> jamesd_: sig ILL, not sig KILL
[17:08:17] <delewis> jamesd_, SIGILL is illegal instruction execution
[17:08:28] <jamesd_> oh
[17:08:49] <delewis> hence why MPlayer is trying to catch VIS, otherwise, the default action is to core dump, which would be the case on non-sun4u systems
[17:08:53] <jamesd_> okay...  ENOCAFINE  on board.
[17:08:56] <delewis> :-)
[17:09:23] <delewis> s/VIS/SIGILL/
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[17:16:33] <Berny> .oO(the flying teleman...)
[17:17:43] <steleman_> the flying steleman went postal on his ISP this morning
[17:18:36] <delewis> there's no way to completely disable VIS on an UltraSPARC is there?
[17:18:49] <Berny> who doesn't steleman_ ?
[17:19:16] <steleman_> well they were usually ok until yesterday when they dropped off and never recovered
[17:20:11] <Berny> how nice
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[17:21:43] <delewis> ISPs down here in response to that tend to go "well, you're just a persona/home user. you don't have immediate needs."
[17:21:55] <Berny> hmm, why do the aggregation of ce[0-3] and eri0 (single dev) show the same mac?
[17:23:39] <Berny> got it
[17:24:13] <whaq> steleman_, so who won?
[17:24:46] <steleman_> well i got one free month if they come fix this crap on monday
[17:24:55] <steleman_> if they dont i get 3 free months
[17:25:02] <Berny> cool deal
[17:25:25] <whaq> way to go
[17:29:15] <steleman_> yeah
[17:29:20] <steleman_> and i might still diss them after this
[17:29:59] <jteo> go consumer powah.
[17:31:08] <Stric> delewis: maybe you can try it in qemu?
[17:31:18] <steleman_> roadrunner used to be pretty good but this is exceedingly crappy service even for an ISP
[17:31:21] <delewis> that's true
[17:31:27] <delewis> qemu emulates a SPARCstation 5
[17:31:32] <delewis> I don't think its good enough to install Solaris on
[17:32:47] <delewis> they claim it isn't
[17:32:57] <delewis> so I'm inclined to believe them
[17:33:00] <delewis> I figured out a solution anyway
[17:33:17] <jteo> which is?
[17:33:18] <delewis> I will install Solaris 8 on my E4500 and build MPlayer over there for sun4m then copy the binary over to the SS5 running Solaris 8
[17:33:37] <delewis> I can do a build of MPlayer on the E4500 in 4 minutes compared to 6 hours on the SS5
[17:34:42] <delewis> not exactly ideal, but still effective for debugging this signal handling mess
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[17:37:10] <Berny> hmm, how do i plumb a nic upon bootup without assing an ip? or could i assign n ip at boot that is later used as ip of another zone?
[17:37:49] <Stric> make a script that runs 'ifconfig xyz0 plumb'
[17:38:18] <Berny> no way to handle this more elegantly?
[17:40:32] <lasseoe> couldn't you just sick "plumb" in hostname.if
[17:40:33] <lasseoe> ?
[17:40:46] <Berny> hmm
[17:41:01] <jteo> "touch hostname.if"
[17:41:07] <Berny> lets try
[17:41:26] <Berny> .oO(i bet it complains about that...)
[17:42:40] <springfield> is pkg-config common on Solaris?
[17:44:36] <Stric> it exists in sol10+
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[18:00:21] <Berny> right
[18:00:28] <Berny> time to move myself home...
[18:02:29] <jamesd_> mv  Berny  ~
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[18:10:10] <springfield> Stric: as part of a "standard build"?
[18:11:23] <Stric> springfield: SUNWgnome-common-devel contains /usr/bin/pkg-config
[18:11:32] <springfield> Stric: thanks
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[18:30:46] <twincest> how integrated is ip.c with STREAMS?  would it be feasible to extract the upper layer parts to use in a system that doesn't have streams?
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[18:41:59] <heanol_> what is it i should install? solaris express?
[18:42:11] <twincest> what you should install depends what you want to use it for
[18:43:04] <heanol_> i am going to use it for a home-server
[18:43:06] <heanol_> "Solaris Express Community Release"
[18:43:39] <twincest> you could use any then.. i'd probably use solaris 10, but SX:CR is probably fine for a home server (better if you want to use the latest features)
[18:44:10] <heanol_> is solaris 10 ree?
[18:44:13] <heanol_> *free
[18:44:34] <twincest> yes
[18:44:57] <heanol_> what's the difference?
[18:45:28] <twincest> SX and SX:CR are builds of what will be Solaris 11, so they have all the current features which have been integrated (the difference between the two is that SX:CR is released more frequently)
[18:53:03] <lasseoe> you can buy support for SX.  SX:CR is bleeding edge more or less
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[19:14:16] <steleman_> hmmm verizon can give me fiber 15/down 7.5/up for 99.99/month with first 3 months free
[19:15:37] <Stric> is that a good price for .us?
[19:15:58] <steleman_> well i dont really know if it's a good price, it's the only price in manhattan :-)
[19:16:17] <steleman_> (the advantages of being a tolerated monopoly like verizon is)
[19:16:19] <Stric> for me it seems super expensiv
[19:16:21] <Stric> e
[19:16:35] <steleman_> it probably is expensive but there are no other choices
[19:16:54] <steleman_> noone else offers fiber
[19:17:29] <steleman_> and roadrunner's super fast extra package blows
[19:18:36] <steleman_> they won't even give static ip's
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[19:31:25] <jteo> intriguing. bluetooth devt. on osol is remarkable.
[19:42:07] <dvorak> you can get static ip's for business accts
[19:51:21] <steleman_> dvorak: yeah and they charge at least 300/month
[19:51:34] <steleman_> for something i can get from verizon for 59/month
[19:52:02] <richlowe> jteo: Hm?
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[19:53:32] <steleman_> at the rate it's going the US will only have 3 major corporations in 2012: BigBank, Inc, BigTelecom, Inc and BigUtilities, Inc.
[19:54:17] <jteo> all wholly own subsidiaries of MSFT?
[19:54:20] <jteo> *owned
[19:55:12] <steleman_> jteo: no, but they will all have a "strategic partnership" with M$FT
[19:57:28] <steleman_> following a landmark ruling of the US Supreme Court which would have declared constitutional the requirement that US employment eligibility must be verified by showing a valid EULA/proof-of-purchase of Microsoft Vista
[19:58:24] <dvorak> steleman_: no idea bout that, most other company companies offer a reasonable soho package
[19:58:25] <jteo> by then, Dell will be selling cars.
[19:58:29] <dvorak> I use cox's, a friend of mine has comcast's
[19:58:48] <tsoome> a rather grim vision...
[19:59:31] <steleman_> dvorak: what is a soho package
[19:59:36] * tsoome has installed vista... sorry, but it's total joke...
[19:59:37] <dvorak> small office/home office
[19:59:39] <steleman_> and why do i have to buy a "package" ?
[19:59:44] <delewis> tsoome, that bad?
[19:59:49] <steleman_> well i dont want a package. i want internet access.
[19:59:54] <tsoome> quite
[20:00:03] <delewis> are they shipping it on DVD?
[20:00:04] <steleman_> that's it. i will take care of my own "package" as i see fit
[20:00:09] <tsoome> it's looking quite nice
[20:00:32] <delewis> Windows releases on a DVD sound silly.
[20:00:39] <delewis> considering you don't get much with it
[20:00:46] <tsoome> but it will not perform, and apps are crashing...
[20:01:13] <tsoome> sure, crashing apps are probably fault of bad programming, but still
[20:01:26] <steleman_> delewis: that's why BluRay and (the other one whatever its name is) were invented: the 4GB DVD's can no longer fit M$ Vista
[20:01:33] <delewis> at least it won't take down the entire operating system, nowadays
[20:01:37] <tsoome> 1.4GHz, 1GB RAM is not enough for vista
[20:01:44] <delewis> in Vista they moved various comonents of the GUI to userland
[20:02:00] <delewis> in Windows 2000/XP and especially 9x, most components were implemented in the kernel level
[20:02:11] <delewis> tsoome, !
[20:02:15] <delewis> that's insane.
[20:02:26] <steleman_> delewis: windows 9x didn't even have a kernel
[20:02:37] <dvorak> ...
[20:02:39] <twincest> delewis: at some point it has to become more cost effective to just ship everything on DVD
[20:02:46] <Stric> tsoome: it's not using that much ram for me
[20:02:54] <delewis> steleman_, sure it did. :-)
[20:02:57] <steleman_> it was a glorified dlopen() with very long switch()
[20:02:59] <steleman_> :-)
[20:03:18] <delewis> twincest, my point is Windows does not have enough software included with it to be shipped on DVD.
[20:03:29] <tsoome> from time to time the CPU is 100% utilized, and then it's dog slow and only reboot seems to help
[20:03:36] <twincest> delewis: my point is that at some point it will be cheaper to ship it on DVD even when it could fit on a CD
[20:03:43] <delewis> with Solaris, you get a complete development environment, two entire desktop environments, an office suite, etc.
[20:03:44] <Stric> tsoome: haven't seen that either
[20:03:46] <delewis> twincest, ah.
[20:03:47] <dvorak> I doubt vista fills the dvd
[20:03:58] <tsoome> and it seems to appear when my laptop does not have any nw connection
[20:04:11] <jteo> tsoome, file a bug? ;)
[20:04:19] <tsoome> yeah:)
[20:04:25] <cmihai> dvorak: sure it does! Remember when Windows 95 switched to CDROM?
[20:04:33] <cmihai> They added a damn videoclip to the disk!
[20:04:42] <cmihai> 14 floppies? Nah, videoclips
[20:04:56] <jteo> i remember MS Office. On floppies.
[20:04:57] <twincest> heh, the early days of CDs were funny, when people were trying to work out what to put on them
[20:04:59] <tsoome> also, it's "nice" ati radeon mobility 9000 series is not supported by ati any more:)
[20:05:00] <jteo> Many many floppies
[20:05:03] <delewis> nothing beat the simplicity of Windows 1.x
[20:05:07] <twincest> i think Sun have finally solved the problem with StarOffce, though ;-P
[20:05:10] <delewis> a single 720KB floppy.
[20:05:36] <Stric> tsoome: geforce4200go isn't supported by nvidia either (while regular geforce4200 is), but dell ships some vista drivers
[20:05:54] <cmihai> So does Fujitsu, but they don't work.
[20:06:05] <cmihai> Guess what?
[20:06:08] <tsoome> but lots of laptops do have this damn ati inside;)
[20:06:09] <cmihai> 3000$ Fujitsu laptop
[20:06:15] <cmihai> Core 2 cpu
[20:06:24] <cmihai> And it wouldn't burn cd's
[20:06:27] <cmihai> You know why?
[20:06:30] <cmihai> My video card didn't support it!
[20:06:48] <tsoome> :)
[20:06:59] <dvorak> nvidia doesn't support any of the mobile chipsets directly
[20:07:09] <dvorak> ati is the same way iirc
[20:07:13] <cmihai> Vista <3... you need a GF7 to burn cds lol
[20:07:48] <Stric> cmihai: that sounds like bullshit.. burning with which app?
[20:08:05] <tsoome> and if I do compare vista on my dell D600 with friends mac mini + macos.... sorry, I do need the mac:)
[20:08:12] <cmihai> Stric: Vista cd burning something. It won't start without a proper 3D card + drivers.
[20:08:37] <_william_> does Vista support existing virus ? :) sorry... ;)
[20:08:44] <tsoome> but perhaps microsoft will fix some issues via updates, but....
[20:08:51] <cmihai> Service packs :)
[20:09:05] <Stric> cmihai: hm. I'll try that later.. it doesn't see my gf4200go as a "real 3d card"..
[20:09:29] <dvorak> it's probably using the default drivers for it
[20:09:36] <steleman_> http://www.drivl.com/code.html
[20:09:54] <tsoome> so, it's nice to look from far-far away, but I really can't say I'm happy with it:)
[20:10:01] <Stric> nah, I got some dell mobile nvidia drivers.. because the regular (vesa?) drivers doesn't support WS for instance
[20:10:25] <cmihai> This laptop even came with a Vista sticker ;)
[20:10:34] <tsoome> :D
[20:10:37] <Wez> I just put vista on my desktop
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[20:11:29] <cmihai> Didn't solitaire tell you your performance score is too low for it?
[20:11:52] <tsoome> but, anyhow. I like it's asking a permission to run apps etc...
[20:11:53] <Wez> I didn't try it, but my machine scores a 4.1, whatever that means
[20:11:59] <cmihai> OOo, that's good.
[20:12:08] <tsoome> my dell scores 1.0
[20:12:21] <cmihai> Same here
[20:12:29] <Stric> cmihai: I got a "vista score" of 1.0 since it didn't detect how much ram I got on the gfx card.. no problem playing solitaire etc
[20:12:38] <delewis> I just don't see how Vista could have such requirements.
[20:12:43] <delewis> is it just because of all the visual effects?
[20:12:46] <cmihai> It doesn't really.
[20:12:55] <heanol_> what's included in solaris?
[20:12:59] <cmihai> it's just the new Aero interface && the effects.
[20:13:05] <heanol_> webserver like apache?
[20:13:05] <delewis> Solaris with all of its complexity still has quite modest requirements.
[20:13:12] <cmihai> Kind of like XGl && co. Besides, Aero isn't even it all Vista versions.
[20:13:13] <delewis> heanol_, Apache2, precisely.
[20:13:16] <heanol_> postgresql?
[20:13:22] <delewis> yes
[20:13:32] <cmihai> Neh, real requirements of Vista are quite close to XP. It's just the fancy effects.
[20:13:33] <heanol_> is there a list of packages?
[20:13:42] <heanol_> do the packages get updated?
[20:13:47] <delewis> you can turn the effects off, right?
[20:13:48] <Wez> vista seems to like touching the disk; I think it's making shadow copies of everything all the time
[20:13:50] <cmihai> Yep.
[20:13:59] <delewis> heanol_, why don't you try actually using it.
[20:14:05] <heanol_> i will
[20:14:08] <delewis> rather than having us be your eyes and ears.
[20:14:30] <heanol_> i'm just trying to decide if i'm gonna try solaris express or nexenta
[20:14:35] <delewis> does Vista require SSE2/SSE3?
[20:14:44] <delewis> or SSE period that is
[20:14:45] <cmihai> It's not really that bad, I'd just wait for SP1 before I'd deploy it..
[20:14:55] <Stric> delewis: you want to run it on a 486 or what? :)
[20:15:13] <delewis> Stric, the majority of x86 CPUs do not have SSE
[20:15:28] <delewis> the only peecee hardware I have is a 1.4GHz AMD Thunderbird
[20:15:32] <delewis> which does not have SSE.
[20:15:49] <cmihai> Well, it does work on a Barton
[20:15:54] <cmihai> Didn't try anything lower
[20:16:25] <cmihai> Oh, wait.
[20:16:28] <cmihai> It does work on PIII
[20:16:37] <delewis> PIIIs have SSE
[20:16:42] <delewis> most AMDs do not
[20:16:51] <cmihai> Iirc Duron too.
[20:17:03] <cmihai> There's a retarded version of Vista for 3rd world countries
[20:17:14] <delewis> "Vista Lite"?
[20:17:15] <delewis> :-)
[20:17:16] <Wez> dos?
[20:17:17] <cmihai> It's cheap and only works on PIII/Duron, with limitations like max 3 processes or something
[20:17:26] <delewis> 3 procsses?
[20:17:29] <cmihai> Yeah
[20:17:40] <delewis> explorer.exe already fills one slot
[20:17:57] <Wez> there's a whole bunch of processes running by default
[20:17:58] <delewis> and don't forget the "System Idle Process" :-)
[20:18:11] <cmihai> Wez: neh, like applications.
[20:18:20] <cmihai> Eg: Iexplore, Outlook, Solitaire, that's it!
[20:18:24] <Wez> even without running anything, you're running a lot
[20:18:37] <cmihai> Oh, and no network servers.
[20:18:43] <dvorak> sounds like someone talking out of their ass to me
[20:18:54] <cmihai> It firewalls all incoming network connections by default, and you can't disable it.
[20:19:01] <cmihai> dvorak: just google Windows Vista Starter edition.
[20:19:39] <dvorak> 3 concurrent applications is not the same thing as 3 processes
[20:20:09] <delewis> reminds me of UNIX concurrent user licenses
[20:20:12] <delewis> (sort of)
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[20:20:32] <Stric> chlicense Command
[20:20:35] <Stric> Changes the number of fixed licenses and the status of the floating licensing of
[20:20:36] <Stric> the system.
[20:20:39] <delewis> yeah :-)
[20:20:40] <Stric> like that in AIX? :)
[20:20:53] <delewis> fortunately, that died in AIX 4.x
[20:21:01] <cmihai> # lslicense
[20:21:02] <cmihai> Maximum number of fixed licenses is 10.
[20:21:03] <delewis> though, you still have to adjust it
[20:21:07] <tsoome> ultrix did had it as well
[20:21:15] <Stric> it still exists in aix 5.1 at least
[20:21:16] <cmihai> <- still has to deal with that crap
[20:21:28] <delewis> it's in 5.2 and 5.3 as well
[20:21:31] * steleman_ wuuved ultrix
[20:22:05] <delewis> Ultrix was always fairly primitive and behind everyone else
[20:22:12] <delewis> it never received dynamic linking, etc.
[20:22:26] <steleman_> delewis: uhm yeah considering it came out in like 1985 ?
[20:22:39] <delewis> steleman_, that was not my point.
[20:22:45] <delewis> compared to everyone else in 1985, Ultrix was primitive.
[20:22:49] <delewis> and so fourth
[20:22:54] <delewis> throughout its lifetime
[20:22:55] <steleman_> delewis: actually, no
[20:22:57] <delewis> it never received FFS
[20:24:00] <cmihai> Though it did get nice with OSF/1 && Tru64
[20:24:52] <richlowe> and I'm near certain ultrix had ffs/ufs while it was still Ultrix.
[20:25:08] <steleman_> back in 1988 4 dishwasher ultrix boxes supported about 6000 student email accounts at my uni
[20:25:34] <delewis> OSF/1 and Ultrix are completely unrelated
[20:26:11] <steleman_> they were replaced in 1992 with 4 HP/UX SMP blablabla boxes which cost 10 times as much and could only reaslistically support half the number of concurent logins
[20:26:31] <delewis> richlowe, it never received any 4.3BSD updates
[20:26:36] <delewis> including filesystem or libc
[20:26:37] <cmihai> Well, they were DEC...
[20:26:53] <delewis> cmihai, and that's about it
[20:27:02] <cmihai> Well, pretty much.
[20:27:04] <delewis> Ultrix was BSD-based. OSF/1 was Mach-based.
[20:27:36] <steleman_> nobody cares if they upgraded to 4.3 BSD or not. they were very stable and very cost effective for their intended use.
[20:28:00] <cmihai> I think they did get some 4.3 stuff and from SysV in Ultrix
[20:28:15] <steleman_> the last ultrix release i saw was indeed 4.3
[20:28:53] <delewis> steleman_, it never received the 4.3BSD filesystem fixes, which resulted in filesystem integrity issues.
[20:29:02] <delewis> I wouldn't call that "very stable" :-)
[20:29:21] <steleman_> delewis: and in my 5 yeasr working at the uni noone hever had any filesystem integrity "issue" amongst those 6000 students with email accounts
[20:29:46] <steleman_> that's not what i can say about the super duper hp/ux pa-risc 4-cpu boxes
[20:30:10] <steleman_> i must say that the hp/ux boxes had a much better "hollywood" design
[20:30:13] <cmihai> Was it using HFS?
[20:30:24] <steleman_> ufs
[20:31:06] <steleman_> hp had blinking lights in the front, a digital panel displaying temperature and humidity and wheels
[20:31:13] <steleman_> the DECs looked like dishwashers
[20:31:22] <steleman_> an no wheels
[20:31:52] <steleman_> very poor form
[20:33:55] <richlowe> delewis: except FFS went into 4.2BSD not 4.3BSD.
[20:34:18] <delewis> richlowe, ah
[20:35:17] <steleman_> and therein lies one of the explanations for DEC's demise: their shit was pretty good and they never mad much money on supporting revenue-generating bugs
[20:37:00] <cmihai> Well, that's true. I've seen DEC's in production for over 10 years, and nobody bothered to service or upgrade them.
[20:37:42] <Stric> , or use them ..? :)
[20:37:55] <steleman_> cmihai: that's what i remember from my days at the uni. we never bothered with the ultrix boxes because they just worked on their own
[20:38:42] <cmihai> Stric: true also. There weren't many people who could operate them anyway
[20:39:39] <steleman_> rebooting an ultrix box required you to be on console
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[22:20:19] <timeless> richlowe: sorry
[22:20:30] <timeless> yes i deal with bugzilla
[22:20:33] <timeless> how can i help you?
[22:20:42] <timeless> if you pong badly, please just email me @gmail.com
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[22:29:45] <jbk> this is depressing
[22:30:13] <jbk> apparently the dns servers for sprint's data service around here are broken
[22:30:52] <PerterB> hmm, "Sprint" and "broken"... there's two words you don't often hear together ;)
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[22:31:34] <jbk> not at all :)
[22:32:04] <jbk> though i won't go into the internal politics as to why this amuses me so much..
[22:32:22] <PerterB> that's ok, it amuses me even without knowing
[22:32:35] <jbk> i strongly suspect they have a transparent web proxy
[22:32:44] <jbk> which is why must people probably don't notice..
[22:33:16] <jbk> i had to resort to finding a web page where you could do dns lookups
[22:33:27] <PerterB> if it's tranparent, doesn't that require working DNS? Or am I misunderstanding?
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[22:34:12] <nettie> heya gusy
[22:34:14] <nettie> guys
[22:34:15] <nettie> :)
[22:34:52] <jbk> hmm true... either way, it's not properly resolving this hostname
[22:34:57] <nettie> uhmm
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[22:43:11] <springfield> is regex.h a posix thing?
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[22:49:48] <pikapika> hello
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[22:53:55] <jamesd_> hi
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