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[00:10:53] <gisburn> Anyone here worked with tanks ?
[00:11:33] <zarathustra> panzers ?
[00:11:38] <zarathustra> lol, ignore me
[00:11:39] <gisburn> yeah
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[00:12:46] <gisburn> zarathustra: Were you ever asked to mark the vehicle for amor flaws, e.g. you get chalk and a hammer and have to mark those spots in the amour which sound "weak" ?
[00:14:04] <zarathustra> gisburn: do you work in the army ?
[00:14:08] <gisburn> no
[00:14:22] * gisburn just found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe_hunt
[00:14:44] <zarathustra> lol
[00:14:45] <gisburn> "Armor flaws ? New privates are given chalk and a hammer and asked to mark armor for tanks and armored personnel carriers with x's wherever the armor may sound weak. Inevitably, the tank commander (usually an officer or senior NCO) returns to a vehicle covered with chalk marks."
[00:14:56] <gisburn> This may get interesting with reactive amour... =:-)
[00:15:01] <zarathustra> lol
[00:15:09] <sommerfeld> ITYM "armor".  "amor"/"amour" has a very different meaning in, uh, Romance languages.
[00:15:38] <gisburn> I mean the armor thing.
[00:15:48] <gisburn> e.g. reactive armor
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[00:16:57] <dmick> anyone here had any success building GNOME stuff?
[00:17:03] <gisburn> which explodes to counter an incoming projectile to disrupt it (e.g. the penetrator)
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[00:17:38] * dwc- throws a rock at the chalk marked areas of gisburn's tank
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[00:22:11] <dmick> no one has even tried to build GNOME?
[00:22:16] <dmick> oh hey, there's someone
[00:22:33] <dmick> laca: having problems building
[00:23:08] <dmick> laca: sent email, can recap if you like, but have a silly problem I'm sure
[00:23:16] * laca looks
[00:23:53] <laca> ah
[00:24:01] <dmick> summary: there's no libgnomeui-devel.* filename on my system (for instance) so pkgbuild can't verify it's installed
[00:24:07] <laca> dmick: cd Solaris; pkgtool prep SUNWgnome-foo.spec
[00:24:16] <dmick> did that already
[00:24:18] <dmick> for all of them
[00:24:34] <laca> from what you sent me in the email,
[00:24:42] <laca> you were trying to use the spec files in spec-files/
[00:24:47] <laca> not in spec-files/Solaris
[00:24:59] <dmick> hm
[00:25:05] <dmick> for pkgbuild
[00:25:12] <dmick> I'm trying to use them from $topdir/SPECS
[00:25:20] <dmick> after having already done pkgtool prep
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[00:44:48] <nettie> hey guys, sorry for the stupid question.. but.. how do I mount a cd (IDE) on solaris 10 please?
[00:45:05] <nettie> I simply can't find it
[00:45:06] <nettie> eheh
[00:45:06] <dmick> if you haven't done anything special
[00:45:09] <dmick> volcheck
[00:45:16] <dmick> then it should show up under /cdrom
[00:45:21] <nettie> uhmm
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[00:45:23] <nettie> volcheck isnt there
[00:45:25] <nettie> not found
[00:45:45] <nettie> do you know where it should be located please?
[00:45:58] <nettie> and do you know how to enable character completition and arrows keys?
[00:45:59] <nettie> ehehe
[00:46:02] <dmick> man volcheck
[00:46:05] <nettie> I feel sooo lost eheh
[00:46:12] <nettie> man not found
[00:46:14] <nettie> well
[00:46:18] <nettie> I installed jus tthe core system
[00:46:24] <nettie> maybe that's the reason?
[00:46:30] <dmick> oh, forget it then
[00:46:33] <dmick> yes, that's why
[00:46:40] <nettie> uhmm
[00:46:47] <nettie> anything close to yum
[00:46:47] <nettie> ?
[00:46:48] <dmick> completion and arrows are a function of which shell you use
[00:47:16] <nettie> right.. must switch to bash then
[00:47:24] <dmick> I don't know what the easy way to install packages after having chosen core is; the graphical managers aren't very good
[00:47:34] <dmick> tcsh and ksh both support cmd line recall
[00:47:40] <dmick> tcsh does completion too
[00:47:46] <dmick> probably none of that is installed with a core install
[00:47:55] <nettie> exaclty
[00:47:56] <nettie> ehehe
[00:47:58] <nettie> pretty lost
[00:48:06] <nettie> I think I'll just re-install
[00:48:07] <dmick> did you have a really really really tiny disk or something?
[00:48:31] <nettie> dmick eheh.. worse, im installing ina vmaware workstation vm
[00:48:36] <dmick> oh
[00:48:40] <nettie> this is my forst tiem
[00:48:42] <jmcp> nettie: the "core" installation cluster is a throwback to the days when 200Mb was a huge disk
[00:48:47] <nettie> first time :)
[00:48:57] <dmick> yeah, inside a vm, you're alawys hurting for space
[00:49:03] <nettie> jmcp ok
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[00:49:07] <nettie> thanx
[00:49:08] <dmick> but I'd still reinstall
[00:49:14] <jmcp> nettie: me too
[00:49:16] <nettie> will re-install then..
[00:49:32] <nettie> jmcp you too what?
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[00:50:00] <jmcp> I would reinstall as well
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[00:50:06] <nettie> ahh ojk
[00:50:07] <nettie> eheh
[00:50:12] <jmcp> nettie: it's a long time since I actually needed to do a mere core install
[00:50:12] <laca> dmick: sorry, me network went down :/
[00:50:18] <dmick> laca: bummer
[00:50:25] <dmick> glad it wasn't something I said :)
[00:50:36] <nettie> jmcp point is I hate graphical environments
[00:50:37] <nettie> eheh
[00:50:38] <laca> heh
[00:51:19] <nettie> and I'm used to centos where minimal (500MB) has everything I need.. noticed that the size was the same so I thought it had everything I needed as well :)
[00:53:19] <jmcp> nettie: you're taking the wrong approach by making assumptions
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[00:53:58] <nettie> you're right.. you know.. when you get used to something..
[00:53:58] <jmcp> nettie: if you want a gui, then don't enable the graphical login service
[00:54:02] <jmcp> true, true
[00:54:09] <jmcp> I got used to Solaris a long time ago :)
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[00:55:30] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[00:55:31] <stevel> cute
[00:55:35] <stevel> [root@grommit:~] 500$ useradd -h
[00:55:35] <stevel> ld.so.1: useradd: fatal: libc.so.1: version `SUNW_1.22.2' not found (required by file /usr/sbin/useradd)
[00:55:35] <stevel> ld.so.1: useradd: fatal: libc.so.1: open failed: No such file or directory
[00:55:35] <stevel> Killed
[00:55:47] <Tpenta> james
[00:55:49] * stevel wonders how that happened
[00:55:50] <jmcp> stevel: phew! I thought you were saying tpenta was cute
[00:55:55] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:55:57] * Tpenta @ syd07
[00:55:58] <jmcp> hi boyd
[00:55:59] <stevel> nah, i'm not nearly drunk enough for that
[00:56:28] <jmcp> stevel: heck ... you'd have to be smoking something too. You have *seen* tpenta, haven't you? :)
[00:56:29] <dmick> eh, who needs libc
[00:56:37] <stevel> i've seen his hackergotchi :)
[00:56:43] <jmcp> Tpenta: said in the caring and sharing manner which brought us "Ask me if I'm a giraffe" :-)
[00:57:07] <jmcp> dmick: only people who cannot handle the essential truth of cat and ed
[00:59:11] <stevel> aargh.
[00:59:11] <stevel> okay
[00:59:18] <stevel> Solaris patches officially suck ass
[00:59:23] <richlowe> Yup.
[00:59:25] <stevel> this is the third patch that's caused me issues
[00:59:28] * dmick slaps knee
[00:59:29] <stevel> 6490476
[00:59:32] <richlowe> that's the patch delewis has been complaining about for months.
[00:59:38] <richlowe> well, only a couple of months, but that counts.
[00:59:58] <richlowe> stevel: You should get back into testing, you seem to have a natural talent ;)
[01:00:05] <stevel> yeah seriously
[01:00:36] <stevel> how the hell did this get past testing???
[01:00:44] <stevel> ffs
[01:01:05] <jmcp> stevel: is that ffs(3C) or some other form?
[01:01:12] * mlh is tempted to put up a page of #opensolaris quotes   "Solaris patches officially suck ass" is a prime candidate
[01:01:23] <stevel> for fuck's sake
[01:01:31] <richlowe> pitty Glynn isn't around.
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[01:01:37] <richlowe> I could just see that at the top of his weekly news.
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[01:01:59] * mlh has known solaris patches to rm -r /
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[01:02:22] <jmcp> stevel: it's ok, I figured that from the context. Did you know about ffs(3C) though?
[01:02:28] <mlh> due to the lack of a VAR that has apparently always been present in testing
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[01:02:29] <stevel> nope :)
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[01:04:43] <boyd> Hooray! SXCR 53!
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[01:09:38] <alanc> stevel: welcome to the post-TX world of S10 patches - unfortunately QA tested the TX patches as a unit, since that's how they went into the update release, so missed a number of interdependency issues if you install them individually
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[01:10:03] <alanc> (since the sheer size of the test matrix for installing all the possible combinations of patches is staggering to imagine)
[01:10:26] <stevel> indeed - but perhaps having one machine running S10 FCS and patching every night wouldn't be too hard to manage
[01:10:31] <darkcmd> is JDS open source?
[01:10:41] <delewis> darkcmd, of course.
[01:10:46] <delewis> it is Gnome, basically.
[01:11:09] * delewis restrains himself from throwing more boulders at Sun's QA department at the mere mention of 3 infamous patches
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[01:11:30] <darkcmd> what infamous patches?
[01:12:03] <delewis> darkcmd, use smpatch or pca to install all of the latest patches, and you'll see what they are infamous :-)
[01:12:18] <darkcmd> I don't have solaris in any of the machines
[01:12:25] <darkcmd> are they really bad
[01:12:45] <delewis> one of them breaks usermod and the other two break zone creation, IIRC.
[01:13:37] <richlowe> zone boot in general.
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[01:13:54] <printk> ah sxcr 53 was released?
[01:14:09] <delewis> printk, yes, with Gnome 2.16.1 goodness.
[01:14:17] <delewis> though, I've been running the latest JDS bits for about the last week
[01:14:29] <printk> nice
[01:14:36] <delewis> so I'm not exactly feeling the motivation to upgrade at the moment :-)
[01:14:38] <alanc> shh!  it's a secret!   don't tell people or they'll take all the bandwidth before you can get yours
[01:15:21] <darkcmd> delewis, you running solaris on sparc?
[01:15:34] <printk> hrm... I'm still showing on the download page that it's 52
[01:15:39] <delewis> darkcmd, yes\
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[01:24:34] <printk> hrm, does the live upgrade package come with SXCR 52?
[01:25:50] <alanc> yes
[01:25:58] <alanc> they're included with all Solaris builds
[01:26:07] <printk> I'm trying to locate it
[01:27:03] <alanc> Solaris_11/Tools/Installers/liveupgrade20 should have the simple installer to put it in
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[01:27:20] <printk> ok thanks
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[01:43:57] <edwardocallaghan> HI guys
[01:44:03] <edwardocallaghan> How are you all?
[01:44:13] <jmcp>  good, thankyou
[01:44:23] <edwardocallaghan> :)
[01:44:48] <jmcp> except for the old awake since 4am issue that is
[01:44:49] 
[01:45:05] <hile_> You poor bastard
[01:45:11] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I got that all the time ;)
[01:45:31] <edwardocallaghan> lol it's only going to be a webserver
[01:45:44] <edwardocallaghan> But I am in love with SPARC chips you see
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[01:46:27] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: it'll do for a small instance. just don't go trying to run oracle on there as well
[01:46:41] <jmcp> hile_: yeah, and he had to pay in GBP as well. Real money :)
[01:46:53] <newpers> hi, i'm installing sxcr, ran auto-layout (for partitions) and now it's going to create the following:  [(/,0,5GB), (swap,1,.5GB), (overlap,2,38GB), (/export/home,7,32GB)].  does this sound right on a 38GB drive?
[01:47:32] <hile_> haha james
[01:47:50] <Auralis> free hint: NEVER use autolayout
[01:48:07] <richlowe> jmcp: could be fun to try oracle on there.
[01:48:41] <newpers> Auralis, thanks... i was following http://blogs.sun.com/vlad/resource/Simple_Solaris_Installation.pdf
[01:48:55] <newpers> Auralis, any suggestions on how i should layout things out, then?
[01:49:01] <edwardocallaghan> MySQL tahnks
[01:49:04] <edwardocallaghan> *thanks
[01:49:40] <Auralis> newpers: depens on what the box is fore
[01:50:28] <newpers> good point
[01:50:37] <newpers> backups and subversion repository
[01:50:48] <newpers> small backups, mind you
[01:51:22] <Auralis>  / 10gig, swap 2 gig the rest into /data or where you want to store your stuff
[01:51:48] <edwardocallaghan> Nice PDF, don't mind if I keep a copy myself
[01:52:20] <Auralis> if you do heavy logging you might want to slit of /var as well, 2-4gig should do it
[01:52:31] <newpers> Auralis, thank you :)
[01:52:45] <Auralis> and if oyu have lots of local users, splitting off /export/home is a wise idea as well
[01:53:38] <newpers> what's overlap, btw
[01:53:52] <Auralis> overlap is a reprensentation of the entire disk
[01:54:05] <newpers> ok, so it's fine that it's there
[01:54:11] <Auralis> its used by some programs  to access the entire disk instead of slices
[01:54:22] <newpers> thanks
[01:54:25] <Auralis> never change overlap and you will be fine
[01:57:02] <edwardocallaghan> Does anyone know when the new installer will be around for testing?
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[02:19:27] * jmcp lunches
[02:21:34] <edwardocallaghan> Right good night
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[02:21:50] <edwardocallaghan> I'm smashed after my late one last night
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[02:34:00] <gisburn> Is there something like an ISBN number for things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_to_the_Telescope ?
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[02:35:18] <dlg> morning all
[02:37:25] <Error_404> gisburn: amazon has an ASIN
[02:37:28] <Error_404> *shrug*
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[02:38:25] <dmick> "things like a wikipedia entry"...you mean "recorded music releases"?
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[02:39:05] <Error_404> yeah, i didn't get that either
[02:39:12] <twincest> SWAN, the Standard Wikipedia Article Number
[02:40:25] <gisburn> SOS/GPL//AN
[02:40:47] <gisburn> Standard OpenSource (GPL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Article Number!
[02:40:50] <gisburn> GPL!!!!
[02:40:51] <gisburn> GPL!!!!
[02:40:56] <gisburn> GPL!!!!
[02:41:03] <dmick> gisburn: calm down, and answer the question, please
[02:41:12] <nprice> SWAN is Sun Wide Area Network :D
[02:41:29] <gisburn> dmick: nah, I just mocking the trolls who want Solaris GPL'ed.
[02:41:38] <dmick> I know.  but there was a question there.
[02:41:59] <gisburn> dmick: I mean the thing which I can use to order stuff.
[02:42:02] <nprice> from the time i left my desk to the time i sat down, SXCR has been bumped to nv53
[02:42:13] <dmick> so that depends on who you order it from.
[02:42:19] <dmick> and what "stuff" is.
[02:42:28] <gisburn> dmick: it's for my xmas wishlist and my parents are notirious for finding the wrong stuff all the time.
[02:42:33] <dmick> I'll ask it again: are you asking "is there a standard identifier for a particular record album"?
[02:42:46] <gisburn> dmick: yes
[02:43:04] <dmick> ok.  so the right answer probably is "the label's identification number"
[02:43:18] <dmick> in this case, Virgin
[02:45:04] <dmick> as for how you *find* that, that's a good question
[02:45:24] <alanc> this is why amazon has wish lists
[02:45:29] <dmick> once it was rumored that CDs had barcodes on them, but I don't know if that ever became standard enough, and you'd have to possess the physical media anyway
[02:45:34] <dmick> AMG has an "album ID"
[02:45:38] <dmick> but that's theirs, I believe
[02:45:42] <nprice> wish they'd start shipping DVD isos as a single file
[02:45:57] <dmick> AMG *claims* that it's Virgin Catalog # 50729
[02:46:12] <dmick> so that might actually be true
[02:46:39] <gisburn> alanc: unfortunately not everything on my wishlist is covered by amazon.
[02:47:01] <alanc> gisburn: no Ultra 45's in amazon's catalog?
[02:47:02] <gisburn> alanc: e.g. somewhere on that list is a new ossciloscope
[02:47:22] <gisburn> alanc: I already ordered a Blade1000 with two CPUs.
[02:47:23] <boyd> nprice: Why is it so hard to combine them?
[02:47:30] <alanc> or T1000's?
[02:47:38] <gisburn> alanc: no money
[02:47:50] <alanc> that's why it's called a "wish list"
[02:48:23] <gisburn> alanc: blade1000 from ebay: 500 euro, t1000: firstborn (which I do not have (yet) and won't give away (in any imaginable case))
[02:49:11] <dmick> gisburn: overstock.com agrees
[02:49:15] <alanc> hmm, wonder if I could put a T1000 on next quarter's budget to be a new build machine...though then we'd have to parallelize the X builds
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[02:49:59] <dmick> overstock also says it's UPC 094635072921 which might also be a useful universal ID
[02:50:24] <alanc> (we have wishlists too, they're just called "capital requests")
[02:50:49] <dmick> and overstock.com is also less than half price
[02:51:24] <nprice> boyd: slow i/o subsystem :)
[02:51:50] <boyd> nprice: I dont' see how that's a problem, you need to do a pass to uncompress anyway
[02:52:03] <nprice> yeah, but now I must do two
[02:52:08] <dmick> cduniverse.com also agrees on catalog number, so I bet AMG is a reasonable place to look.  I don't know if that's generally on the outside of the CD pkg or not tho.
[02:52:13] <nprice> as the files themselves are already zipped then must be assembled
[02:52:24] <boyd> nprice: Rubbish
[02:52:24] <gisburn> alanc: you can tell the compiler itself to use multiple threads, too.
[02:52:42] <boyd> nprice: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/OacoRc68.html
[02:53:10] <nprice> haha
[02:57:33] <gisburn> Can anyone recommend a good introduction into multuthreaded programming in Unix ?
[02:58:04] <inaddy> gisburn: have u ever read pthreads from oreilly ?
[02:58:07] <gisburn> (not for my, I am just not happy to play the dictionary for my GF each time... :-) )
[02:58:14] <gisburn> s/my/me/
[02:58:19] <gisburn> inaddy: it's not for me
[02:58:41] * boyd mutters "You're welcome"
[02:58:42] <gisburn> s/me/myself/
[02:59:07] <gisburn> inaddy: I think I read that book long ago but I am not sure.
[02:59:08] <inaddy> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-5137/6mba5vpkh
[02:59:19] <inaddy> Solaris Multithreaded Programming Guide
[02:59:25] <inaddy> :D
[02:59:28] <alanc> didn't bart smaalders write a threads book?
[03:01:00] <steleman> alanc: i believe so
[03:01:10] <inaddy> Comparing APIs for Solaris Threads and POSIX Threads  ---> this is the best part ;)
[03:01:21] * boyd posts http://quidocet.blogspot.com/2006/12/concatenating-dvd-iso-parts-for-solaris.html
[03:01:59] <gisburn> inaddy: a physical book may be better
[03:02:14] <alanc> ah - looks like it might be out of print - http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Threads-Steve-Kleiman/dp/0131723898/sr=8-1/qid=1165370501/ref=sr_1_1/103-8350759-5867049?ie=UTF8&s=books
[03:03:55] <steleman> they have used ones
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[03:22:59] * jmcp returns
[03:23:11] <boyd> Nice lunch?
[03:25:20] * boyd had some fantastic steamed lettuce thing in Beijing. Tasted better than it sounds. It also had something in it to numb the mouth in preparation for the spices that followed in later courses
[03:26:35] <gisburn> boyd: blowfish ?
[03:26:56] <gisburn> or was that the japanese meal with the 1:300 chanche to die horribly ?
[03:27:03] <boyd> That's the one
[03:27:11] <boyd> I don't think what I had was that
[03:27:23] <boyd> You're talking about "Fugu"
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[03:28:33] <jmcp> boyd: grocery shopping, + yoghurt
[03:28:45] <gisburn> boyd: http://www.hundefeind.de/hundesuppe.html ?
[03:28:47] <jmcp> boyd: making up for fish-n-chips yesterday :)
[03:29:03] <boyd> Hehe
[03:29:56] <gisburn> boyd: note the page is a fake.
[03:30:13] <boyd> gisburn: Thanks for exposing me to that appalling javascript popup-like thing
[03:30:48] <gisburn> boyd: the whole site www.hundefeind.de (german for "enemy of the dogs") is designed to upset dog friends badly
[03:30:50] <gisburn> boyd: erm
[03:30:57] <gisburn> boyd: which popup ?
[03:31:20] <boyd> Some obnoxious slide-in-from-the-side javascript driven thing
[03:31:40] <gisburn> ugh
[03:31:53] <gisburn> anyone owns a "retriever" here ?
[03:32:43] <gisburn> e.g. Golden Retriever etc. ?
[03:33:52] <dmick> my sister does
[03:34:58] <gisburn> dmick: http://www.hundefeind.de/retrievergulasch.html
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[03:35:47] <dmick> that's an odd sense of humor.
[03:36:40] <gisburn> dmick: that's no humor, that's IMO plain trolling.
[03:37:04] <gisburn> dmick: note the front page. They offer a phone number with a tape connected.
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[03:37:19] <gisburn> dmick: and many people complain on the tape violently.
[03:37:34] <gisburn> dmick: and then the wav's are placed on the page.
[03:37:35] <dmick> sigh.  "I can lie to you, therefore I am funny"
[03:37:57] <gisburn> dmick: the whole site is designed to make dog friends&&lovers horribly upset.
[03:38:06] <dmick> yes, I get it.
[03:38:50] <dmick> someone probably finds it funny.  I can imagine it took a lot of effort, but just don't see the humor (and there are plenty of dogs I'd just as soon see cooked into goulash, but still..)
[03:39:27] <gisburn> dmick: someone else here used http://www.hundefeind.de/schlachtreport.html as education example how to construct a text to make people really angry (just mark the text segments which are designed to upset people and 1/3 of the text gets RED)
[03:40:07] <dmick> given that animal abuse/torture/killing is apparently a really good indicator of sociopathy
[03:40:17] <dmick> it seems to me that websites like this are at least a warning sign
[03:40:36] <gisburn> dmick: do you know bonsaikitten ?
[03:40:50] <dmick> heh.  and I know almost no German, but I remember Schlacthof-Funf from Vonnegut
[03:41:05] <dmick> so can extrapolate :)
[03:41:14] <dmick> I've seen bonsaikitten, yes
[03:41:33] <dmick> slightly less offensive than killing for meat, but along the same lines
[03:41:37] <gisburn> dmick: well, this is like bonsaikitten on steroids.
[03:42:31] <gisburn> and there isn't a month where someone complains that such evil pages must be banned/blocked/authors jailed and the internet is so evil blabla and counterstrike makes children run amok etc.
[03:42:48] <dmick> yeah.  well there's reaction and overreaction.
[03:43:09] <gisburn> dmick: it's AGAIN a real debate here in germany.
[03:43:11] <dmick> I support his right to post such pages.  but I would not invite him to socialize with me in any context, nor any of my friends.
[03:44:12] <gisburn> dmick: quick question: if you open www.nazi.org ... which color would you expect (don't look, just guess) ?
[03:45:52] <gisburn> (almost all people guess wrong)
[03:47:18] <dwc-> white?
[03:47:51] <gisburn> dwc-: that's the background, but was thinking about the foreground color...
[03:47:56] <dwc-> black?
[03:47:59] <dwc-> black on white?
[03:48:00] <gisburn> no
[03:49:33] <gisburn> and it's not "red" as most people would guess.
[03:50:17] <Auralis> green?
[03:50:41] <gisburn> Auralis: you did look, right ?
[03:51:06] <Auralis> no
[03:52:09] <gisburn> Auralis: "Libertarian National Socialist Green Party" <---- note the "green"... somewhere in the last ten or more years these xx@@@!!! added that to look more "cute" (or whatever the matching term would me)
[03:52:54] <gisburn> The fun part is that many politicans here scream to ban rotten.org, bonsaikitten and counterstrike servers... but those pages aren't listed in their proposals.
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[04:05:00] <jbk> grrr.. diag-level was left to max :(
[04:05:07] <jbk> thank god this is a v240
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[04:06:30] <ski-worklap> what's the difference between solaris and opensolaris?
[04:06:45] <jbk> 4 characters :)
[04:06:46] <jbk> j/k
[04:06:47] <mustang> four letters
[04:06:49] <mustang> snap
[04:07:11] <jbk> think of 'solaris' as sun's distribution of opensolaris
[04:07:31] <ski-worklap> ups, now i see the topic :)
[04:08:38] <ski-worklap> so as someone who's new to solaris, i should just download the free solaris from sun?
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[04:08:57] <jbk> well depends what you want
[04:09:18] <ski-worklap> just something to play around with, really
[04:09:43] <ski-worklap> and i'd like tocompile my programs for 64 and 32 bit intel solaris as well
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[04:09:50] <jbk> you can download solaris 10 for free, you can download solaris express, solaris express community release (and if you have that, you can also download the least source snapshot and build and run that)
[04:09:55] <ski-worklap> i suppose the latter is more important
[04:10:10] <ski-worklap> so i have to register with sun to get either version ?
[04:10:37] <jbk> yes
[04:10:40] <ski-worklap> i can never remember wtf my uname / pw for sun is, i must have like 10 accounts over the years
[04:10:48] <ski-worklap> and now it'll be 11 i guess :)
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[04:13:24] <dmick> gisburn: you assume I have any idea what nazi colors were/are, which I don't
[04:14:57] <ski-worklap> wtf?
[04:15:18] <gisburn> dmick: usually it's red.
[04:15:25] <gisburn> dmick: (AFAIK)
[04:15:34] <dmick> ski-worklap: before you got here
[04:15:35] <Auralis> red/white and black
[04:15:50] <dmick> ok
[04:15:51] <gisburn> dmick: or better: it was red for a long time and suddenly it became green.
[04:15:54] <dmick> so's my ferrari
[04:16:13] <newpers> i thought it was green apple?
[04:16:23] <newpers> apple green
[04:16:47] <gisburn> dmick: rotten.org and nazi.org are usually be used to "shock" students who never used the www yet. after that part happytreefriends are used to get them smiling again.
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[04:17:35] <jbk> i'd love to know why liveupdate by default makes every ufs filesystem nologging
[04:17:54] <gisburn> jbk: which solaris version ?
[04:17:57] <jbk> 10 -> 10
[04:18:02] <gisburn> mhhh
[04:18:05] <gisburn> file bug.
[04:18:25] <dmick> jbk: lucreate/
[04:18:27] <dmick> ?
[04:18:28] <ski-worklap> bla, there'sno way to just download one big whopping file from sun? that's annoying
[04:18:32] <jbk> yes
[04:18:43] <jbk> basically, box w/ factory server-start installed (s10)
[04:18:57] <jbk> create empty BE
[04:19:09] <jbk> flash with our standard sol10u1 image
[04:19:11] <jbk> activate be
[04:19:33] <jbk> vfstab has no logging (does not in the archive)
[04:19:46] <jbk> usually i remember to catch it.. forgot to on this box :(
[04:22:12] <dmick> weird.  none of the snv_53 tools even mention logging
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[04:23:42] <jbk> hmm.. perhaps it's fixed in a later version then..
[04:24:07] <richlowe> it defaults to logging.
[04:24:16] <richlowe> vfstab won't mention it, mount | grep logging, probably will.
[04:25:10] <Auralis> mount_ufs actually
[04:25:48] <dmick> right, but for it to be off, it'd have to specify nologging
[04:25:59] <Auralis> yes
[04:26:18] <richlowe> dmick: Indeed, I was thinking "vfstab has no logging" was meaning the keyword was not present.
[04:26:26] <richlowe> and thus causing the assumption logging wasn't enabled.
[04:26:31] <dmick> oh
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[04:26:36] <dmick> jbk?
[04:26:55] <jbk> no
[04:27:04] <jbk> it explicitly put 'nologging' in vfstab
[04:27:08] <richlowe> Hm.
[04:27:23] <jbk> unless someone screwed up the flash archive
[04:27:37] <jbk> but i don't believe it happens when you do a flash install off cd
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[04:35:17] <Plaidrab> I am so sad. I bought a HD today just for Solaris.
[04:35:39] <jbk> and why is that sad?
[04:35:48] <boyd> That's not as sad as buying a whole computer just for Windows
[04:36:07] <dlg> hahaha
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[04:38:52] <quasi> new toys for your favorite os - that seems like cause to celebrate rather than being sad ;)
[04:39:22] <gisburn> Plaidrab: you mean you bought it because there was no other way to handle a multiboot system ?
[04:39:37] <gisburn> Plaidrab: solution: install suse linux + VMware
[04:39:48] <gisburn> this is what I do on my laptop.
[04:39:51] <Plaidrab> I'm not installing a new linux just to shove in vmware
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[04:40:15] <gisburn> Plaidrab: well, on laptop's there is little other choice.
[04:40:44] <gisburn> Plaidrab: solaris doen't detect USB properly and power-management locks the CPU at 1200MHz
[04:40:52] <gisburn> e.g. no 2GHz
[04:41:16] <Plaidrab> My newest laptop is a Walstreet. I don't think that's a fear
[04:41:39] <ski-worklap> vmware server seems to just work for me on ubuntu
[04:42:04] <ski-worklap> (altho i haven't installed opensolaris in it yet)
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[04:45:18] <boyd> Wow... here comes (in the distance) 100GB ethernet
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[04:54:21] <LeftWing> boyd: About time, too.
[04:54:36] <LeftWing> How else are we supposed to fulfill the Multimedia Sun Ray vision. ;P
[04:55:14] <richlowe> Hm, snv_53 made the input method junk reappear.
[04:55:17] <richlowe> among other things.
[04:55:37] <richlowe> (has anyone else noticed how Gman always vanishes just around the time a new JDS goes in?) :)
[04:57:35] <syndrome71> boyd: where was the reference to 100GB ethernet?
[04:57:42] <quasi> richlowe: wouldn't you hide as well if it was you? ;)
[04:58:45] <richlowe> quasi: nah, I'd imagine everyone was too busy wishing they'd backed up their gconf settings to yell at him. ;)
[04:59:28] <boyd> syndrome71: /.
[04:59:34] <syndrome71> ah
[04:59:39] <syndrome71> I hardly read that these days...
[04:59:46] <boyd> I just scan the RSS
[04:59:47] <boyd> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/slashdot/eqWf/~3/57508929/article.pl
[05:00:51] <quasi> richlowe: or it could just be trying to bring down the overtime after the last couple of weeks panic^Wwork on the release ;)
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[05:17:03] <boyd> Hmm... what's that open source desktop that looks like CDE?
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[05:17:30] <syndrome71> filth?
[05:17:32] <syndrome71> :)
[05:17:36] <boyd> :P
[05:17:42] <syndrome71> heh
[05:17:56] <boyd> Slow day, syndrome71? :)
[05:18:09] <richlowe> boyd: xfce?
[05:18:18] <boyd> Ahh... sounds familiar
[05:18:19] <syndrome71> actually, no - I just happened to have switched desktops, and this window happened to be ontop... ;)
[05:19:03] <boyd> richlowe: Any idea how similar it is to CDE in things other than appearance?
[05:19:10] <richlowe> none at all.
[05:19:20] <boyd> Thanks... just thought I'd ask
[05:20:00] * boyd is replying to an email bye some lunatic that wants something that's "simiar to customize to CDE"
[05:20:33] <boyd> s/bye/bye/; s/simiar/similar/
[05:20:44] <LeftWing> heh
[05:21:51] * boyd thought about suggesting "an oscilloscope" but thought better of it
[05:21:59] <syndrome71> I ate my cat?
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[05:23:28] <jamesd> syndrome71, no, no your supposed to eat  p***y
[05:23:41] <dlg> holy crap nge is bad
[05:23:52] <LeftWing> nge?
[05:24:01] <dlg> nvidia ethernet on the u20
[05:24:04] <boyd> jamesd: Feeling better, huh?
[05:24:06] <syndrome71> jamesd: <speechless>
[05:24:07] <boyd> :)
[05:24:40] <jamesd> a bit better, i will be better when i get home. back to broadband
[05:24:43] <quasi> dlg: bad how? performance or?
[05:24:56] <dlg> yeah
[05:25:05] <dlg> feel like it takes half a second to notice interrupts or something
[05:25:19] <quasi> hmmm, interesting
[05:25:20] <dlg> its got a gig link to the center of our network and i get maybe 2meg a second to it
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[05:25:53] <quasi> that seems very wrong - I usually get much more
[05:26:08] <boyd> jamesd: You're IRCing over your cell phone?
[05:26:42] <jamesd> cellphone is acting as a modem to an isp in maine
[05:26:57] <jamesd> connected via usb port to the cellphone
[05:27:42] <boyd> Yikes!
[05:28:34] <jamesd> nights and weekends are free...  its just a sucky  9600 baud link that kills me... its free... and it works
[05:29:08] <alanc> I hate XKB
[05:29:43] <alanc> hours stepping through the Xorg keyboard code to find out my Type 5 keyboard is mapped wrong simply because of a bad line in one of the XKB config files
[05:29:58] <boyd> Damn
[05:30:19] <alanc> on the bright side, I can now login to Xorg on my U10
[05:30:30] <alanc> since I can now actually type my user name & passwd 8-)
[05:35:48] <boyd> AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! I just spent hours downloading SXCR to find that I got b52!!!!!
[05:36:30] <boyd> The link on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/ is wrong
[05:37:51] <alanc> that sucks
[05:38:02] <alanc> time for me to go home - see you guys tomorrow
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[05:38:06] <boyd> Night
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[05:39:29] <Kmays> sol-nv-b53-x86-v1-iso.zip
[05:39:50] <nbkk6fo_> any standard tool to get back superblock info ?
[05:39:56] <nbkk6fo_> fs block size and such
[05:40:02] <boyd> fstyp -v
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[05:54:01] <whaq> Which log file to check for sata related problems? I get intermittent sleep\inactivity during long data read\write or even scrub.
[05:54:19] <jmcp> whaq: /var/adm/messages, if anything
[05:54:41] <ski-worklap> is there a decent gui for configuring networking on solaris these days?
[05:55:06] <jmcp> define "decent"
[05:55:18] <ski-worklap> decent == anything, really.
[05:55:43] <ski-worklap> i remember last time i tried solaris... maybe 8-9 yrs ago, it was all editing obscue files which weren't even the same ones as on linux/bsd
[05:55:50] <ski-worklap> *obscure
[05:55:57] <jmcp> ski-worklap: awwww, not the same as linux
[05:56:03] <jmcp> sorry, no sympathy here on that account
[05:56:07] <jmcp> yes, there are guis
[05:56:10] <ski-worklap> well i can live with that
[05:56:20] <ski-worklap> but if there is a gui i needn't care about the underlying internals, so im happy
[05:56:23] <jmcp> and do you mean "obscure" as in "not like linux" ?
[05:56:26] <jmcp> yes
[05:56:29] <ski-worklap> yeah, obscure wasn't fair
[05:56:36] <ski-worklap> obscure seeming to me  at the time :)
[05:56:53] <whaq> jmcp, nothing there. what about zfs\zpool? Is there debug mode to toggle somewhere?
[05:56:59] <ski-worklap> actually i wasn't expecting it to be like linux, i was surprised it wasn't like bsd tho
[05:57:13] <jmcp> ski-worklap: you wanted SunOS then ...
[05:57:18] <jmcp> whaq: no there isn't
[05:57:39] <ski-worklap> jmcp, did they ever have sunos for x86?
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[05:58:04] <jmcp> ski-worklap: not as such
[05:58:09] <jmcp> ski-worklap: there was Interactive Unix
[05:58:15] * jmcp heads off to a concall
[05:58:32] <whaq> jmcp, hrm. how can someone troubleshot issue like this then?
[05:58:44] <mustang> well, there was the Sun 386i
[05:58:47] * whaq joins jmcp on the concall and bugs him on the problem some more..
[06:10:14] <nbkk6fo_> sadly only kids that run Solaris at home who have no real experience working for a large corporation thinks Linux is horrible
[06:11:13] <jmcp> nbkk6fo_: talking about me?
[06:11:35] <nbkk6fo_> no just #solaris,#opensolaris in general
[06:11:45] <nbkk6fo_> everytime I'm here its constant #linux bash
[06:12:10] <jmcp> nbkk6fo_: yawn
[06:12:23] <jmcp> we don't actually make it a habit of bashing linux/*BSD/... whatever here
[06:12:34] <richlowe> attempting to derive the attitude of all from the actions of the few is doomed to failure.
[06:13:02] <jmcp> it's just when somebody rocks up and says "oh, linux is much less obscure than Solaris was 8 years ago" ... that's when people such as myself start to get annoyed
[06:13:23] <jmcp> richlowe: I'll carry that banner for you :)
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[06:14:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[06:14:25] <ski-worklap> oh, interesting. x86 and amd64 have the same cd/dvds for solaris
[06:14:58] <jmcp> ski-worklap: yes. the x86/x64 installer runs in 32bit, but on reboot if your cpu is 64bit-capable, that's what will boot by default
[06:15:11] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[06:15:16] <Tpenta> jmcp
[06:16:07] <ski-worklap> jmcp, interesting, i wonder how vmware will deal with that
[06:16:22] <ski-worklap> well, actually it will detect 64 bit since i told it i was installing 64 bit solaris i suppose
[06:17:48] <nbkk6fo_> did Sun yank their vmware image/
[06:17:52] <nbkk6fo_> I cant seem to find it anymore
[06:19:06] <Plaidrab> It sould just be buried. The site is notorious for hiding things
[06:20:55] <Plaidrab> Is anyone using cmake here, particularly out of cvs?
[06:21:09] <ski-worklap> hmm
[06:21:16] <ski-worklap> i just downloaded the x86 isos from sun
[06:21:22] <Plaidrab> cmake's cvs, not building cvs with cmake :)
[06:21:31] <ski-worklap> do i concat these things together, or what?
[06:21:38] <ski-worklap> i've got sol-10-u2-ga-x86-dvd-iso-[a..e]
[06:21:53] <nbkk6fo_> yes
[06:21:56] <Plaidrab> Yes.
[06:22:00] <boyd> I don't want to stir anything up, but my experience is almost the exact opposite of what  nbkk6fo_ describes above
[06:22:41] <boyd> ski-worklap: http://quidocet.blogspot.com/
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[06:26:11] <ski-worklap> i don't get why they didn't just make one of those "conjoined" zip archives or whatever they are called
[06:26:51] <boyd> ski-worklap: I don't know what those are.
[06:27:01] <ski-worklap> multi0-archive spanning zip?
[06:27:10] <ski-worklap> multi-zip spanning archive? one of those two
[06:27:13] <boyd> The reason for the split is that many clients (and some servers) can't handle files > 2G
[06:27:23] <ski-worklap> right
[06:27:35] <Plaidrab> Cause there's no need to zip it?
[06:27:36] <ski-worklap> but the output image is >2G so why bother?
[06:27:42] * ski-worklap not trying to flame, just curious
[06:27:54] <ski-worklap> i guess they also wanted to put their little disclaimer/license thing all over the place
[06:27:59] <jmcp> ski-worklap: clients such as lynx and wget
[06:28:02] <jmcp> and apache httpd
[06:28:03] <boyd> ski-worklap: I think it's download programs in particular (and apache for a while)
[06:28:10] <jmcp> though httpd is clearly a server :)
[06:28:13] <ski-worklap> jmcp, not true of apache
[06:28:25] <ski-worklap> except old versions. it can even work on 1.3.x
[06:28:26] <boyd> ski-worklap: ... any more
[06:28:28] <jmcp> not now
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[06:28:58] <ski-worklap> right. it's just odd to me. but i guess this is somthing others have flamed about before, so i will spare you all :)
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[06:30:25] <Plaidrab> I'm fairly confident there isn't any speed or size benefit to doing it with a multi-file zip than doing it with cat.
[06:31:04] <boyd> Plaidrab: I agree.. there may be some fool-proofing improvements though
[06:31:21] <boyd> "You have missed a segment of this file"
[06:31:38] <Plaidrab> Maybe a little shell script that could md5 check each chunk then cat 'em
[06:31:45] <richlowe> you could probably tie that into, "How the hell did this gain another segment this time?" :)
[06:31:58] <boyd> richlowe: lol
[06:32:23] * boyd points Plaidrab at his latest post (link above)
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[06:35:32] <Plaidrab> I really don't think compressing the ISO is worth the cpu cost of extracting it. But that's just me. :)
[06:35:48] <ski-worklap> well you don't pay sun's bandwidth bills :)
[06:36:23] <Plaidrab> I'm a stockholder. I contribute
[06:36:24] <Plaidrab> :)
[06:37:16] <jamesd> Plaidrab, you do relize there bandwidth bill is over $50k a month?
[06:37:21] <ski-worklap> (*&%$
[06:37:35] <ski-worklap> jamesd, it's a lotmore than that
[06:37:45] <ski-worklap> why the hell can't i download the md5sums for this dern image
[06:37:50] <jamesd> oc48's are not cheap
[06:37:57] <Plaidrab> I'd be surprised if it's that little, based on my own experiences on SCA years ago
[06:38:24] <Plaidrab> And I never claimed it was a useful or effective contribution
[06:38:28] <Plaidrab> :)
[06:38:47] <Plaidrab> So why aren't the slices torrented then?
[06:38:52] <jamesd> ski-worklap, i have it from a good authority that sun's main link to the net is a oc48,  i'm sure there are other smaller links, but the main ones are on the oc48]
[06:39:05] <jamesd> Plaidrab, lawyers
[06:39:36] <ski-worklap> jamesd, whatever you say
[06:39:38] <Plaidrab> In Broomfield? Or SFBay?
[06:44:00] <ski-worklap> wtf, the iso is bigger by 200MB than the zip'd files, heh
[06:44:05] * Plaidrab looks at the zips of the iso slices... Better ratios than I'd expect
[06:44:12] <ski-worklap> pretty minimal
[06:44:37] <Plaidrab> Yes.
[06:45:29] <ski-worklap> but then again 6% on even a $50k monthly bill is someone's salary in a year
[06:46:14] <jamesd> and 200MB * 6 million equals alow..
[06:46:16] <Plaidrab> I wasn't paid *that* badly. :)
[06:46:43] <Plaidrab> Though I am now. heh
[06:46:46] <jamesd> now think about if some guy  gets a bad chunk,  its a lot better to download one chunk instead of a full iso.
[06:47:05] <Plaidrab> True
[07:03:39] <razrX> morning
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[07:22:39] <Error_404> am I missing something here?...
[07:22:51] <Error_404> resolv.conf is set up properly with my name servers
[07:23:04] <boyd> nsswitch.conf?
[07:23:17] <Error_404> the "hosts" and "ipnodes" are both set to "files dns"
[07:23:43] <Error_404> yet i can't resolve anything
[07:23:58] <boyd> Is dig working?
[07:24:02] <Doc> what happens when you try using nslookup or dig?
[07:24:08] <boyd> Hey, Doc
[07:24:21] <jmcp> Error_404: did you restart name-service-cache and dns/client ?
[07:24:23] <Doc> as they say, great fools think alike!
[07:24:30] <Error_404> oh, wierd... nslookup works
[07:24:33] <jmcp> Error_404: can you ping your nameserver's ip?
[07:24:48] <boyd> I thought it was great thinks like never
[07:24:53] <boyd> Fool!
[07:24:59] <Error_404> yeah, i can ping the nameservers fine
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[07:25:31] <Error_404> i'll restart dns/client *shrug*
[07:25:39] <Error_404> nope
[07:25:49] <boyd> What the hell does dns/client represent anyway
[07:25:58] <razrX> Error_404: you're not using a ~/.digrc file with some weird settings ?
[07:26:27] <Error_404> ahh, bingo
[07:26:30] <Error_404> it was name-service-cache
[07:26:40] <Error_404> thnx
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[07:29:52] <Doc> good old nscd
[07:30:41] * jmcp re-concalls
[07:30:51] <razrX> god knows how many times nscd has caused some 'weird; behavior ;)
[07:32:40] <Doc> 4,811,185 times
[07:32:47] <Doc> (i've been keeping track)
[07:33:28] <razrX> Doc: lmao
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[07:34:41] <Tpenta> !seen gman
[07:34:43] <Drone> Gman (Gman!i=gman@nat/sun/x-e64584cc51c55fa5) was last seen in #opensolaris on Fri 01 Dec 2006 21:28 GMT, saying 'ok bbl, i need to head to the airport :)'.
[07:34:58] <Doc> obviously he was flying JetStar
[07:35:02] <Tpenta> that would probably explain why i have not seen him
[07:35:10] <Tpenta> did that 2nd flight get cancelled too?
[07:35:26] <Doc> nah.. i made it - 4 1/2 hours late
[07:35:36] <Tpenta> i hope you didnt have folks waiting for you
[07:35:42] <Doc> but i also discovered that they fudge their on-time numbers
[07:36:21] <Doc> planes that were leaving 30+ mins late they were claiming left 10-15 mins late, because 15 mins is "on-time"
[07:36:57] <Tpenta> sounds like cityrail
[07:37:15] <Tpenta> i think they have to be 10 minutes before they are called late
[07:37:32] <Doc> a few telling photos on my blog
[07:40:42] <Tpenta> nice
[07:40:54] <Tpenta> I hope you sent the url to some papers
[07:41:11] <Doc> not yet, but i will...
[07:41:24] <Tpenta> don't leave it too lonhg
[07:41:42] <Doc> anyway... off to do some funky stuff on an SE9990
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[08:13:57] <Error_404> odd... postgres won't start
[08:14:13] <Error_404> something about work_mem needing to be an int, so says smf
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[08:30:56] <ski-worklap> hmm, does solaris take awhile to boot? or is it just that it's doing some things on the first boot after install?
[08:32:35] <Posixzombie> I try to create a zfs file system according to "Creating a Basic ZFS File System" section of Creating a Basic ZFS File System
[08:32:53] <Posixzombie> the problem is that the device has a ufs fs on it
[08:33:00] <Posixzombie> and -f does not help
[08:33:01] <noyb> ski-worklap: yes, it's longer on the first boot.
[08:33:13] <Posixzombie> zpool create -f tank /dev/dsk/c1d0s6
[08:33:13] <Posixzombie> internal error: No such device
[08:33:13] <Posixzombie> Abort (core dumped)
[08:33:26] <Posixzombie> is there anything I can do to succeed in it ?
[08:34:08] <noyb> ski-worklap: it will be a lot faster next time.
[08:34:21] <ski-worklap> oh heh
[08:34:26] <ski-worklap> it seems like it's still installing stuff actually
[08:34:44] * noyb grins
[08:34:49] <ski-worklap> any thoughts on xsun vs. xorg?
[08:35:50] <noyb> I'm on snv_43 running Xorg, and I see no difference.  So that's good IMO.
[08:36:13] <noyb> sorry...   snv_53  (typo)
[08:36:51] <ski-worklap> ackkkkk cde is still default?
[08:37:15] <ski-worklap> is java desktop system worth trying? or should i just install a real window manager?
[08:37:24] <noyb> it's still the same geiser at Yosemite, too...
[08:37:35] <ski-worklap> i thought there was talk of replacing it with kde or gnome
[08:37:38] <ski-worklap> must have been idle speculation
[08:38:14] <triplah> ski-worklap: JDS is gnome
[08:38:27] <noyb> ski-worklap: jds (gnome) is good enuf.  I've been using it for almost a year now.
[08:38:36] <triplah> ski-worklap: enlightenment is your friend too ;)
[08:38:56] <ski-worklap> oh wack
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[08:39:03] <ski-worklap> yeah i just read that on wikipedia
[08:39:22] <boyd> triplah: Is e17 ever going to release?
[08:39:44] <triplah> boyd: doubt it. i think raster is having too much fun working on it
[08:41:44] <boyd> Wasn't benr working on it too?
[08:41:53] <boyd> (like a thousand years ago)
[08:42:52] <triplah> yes
[08:43:04] <triplah> he also maintains the solaris/sparc ports
[08:43:11] <triplah> well, did last time i checked
[08:43:45] * boyd doesn't have a solaris box with anything like the graphics horsepower to run the e17 eyecandy
[08:44:01] <triplah> boyd: there are e16 ports too ;)
[08:44:18] <boyd> That's so... last hour
[08:45:35] <triplah> hehe
[08:45:42] <triplah> its still a nifty wm
[08:45:52] <triplah> the latest version has compositing support
[08:45:59] <boyd> Nice
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[08:51:29] <ski-worklap> what exactly does jds have to do with java?
[08:51:40] <trygvis> not much :)
[08:51:47] <boyd> They both have "java" in their name
[08:51:50] <trygvis> just marketing
[08:52:06] <ski-worklap> heh
[08:52:36] <boyd> Marketing that has led to much confusion. "So many assholes, so few bullets"
[08:55:45] <richlowe> "Brand recognition!"
[08:55:57] <richlowe> except, you know, when you pollute it with meaningless crud, it could be said that kinda goes away...
[08:56:38] <ski-worklap> hmm, is adduser the best way to add a user in solaris, or is there some solaris-specific command i should run?
[08:56:53] <boyd> useradd
[09:00:11] <Error_404> there we go... now i have dtrace on postgres
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[09:02:18] <Firefishe> I am only able to boot into solaris via failsafe, to a terminal prompt.  What is a command to start the gui (cde will do)?
[09:03:31] <boyd> Firefishe: You mean from a failsafe option at the grub menu?
[09:04:04] <boyd> If so, I don't think there is a way to do that... failsafe boots from an alternative root image
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[09:05:02] <Firefishe> ah, so that's the ticket
[09:05:59] <Firefishe> I just got my free copy of Solaris 10 from Sun (yay!) but I'm having trouble with the system on my x86 laptop...seems a mite temperamental, and it hangs at this one stage and I can't do anything after that, the drive just quits working.
[09:07:16] <printk> hrm all i see is SXCR 52 at sun download site.  Is live upgrade working (I have nv 52) to upgrade to 53?
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[09:07:51] <boyd> printk: 53 is there.. I think the links are not yet updated
[09:08:04] <boyd> replace 52 with 53 in the url
[09:08:19] <boyd> LU works, but there are some gotchas....
[09:08:22] * boyd looks
[09:08:52] <boyd> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2006110701/
[09:09:21] <richlowe> and if you don't enable svc:/system/hal before you try and log into JDS, the world explodes around you.
[09:09:35] <boyd> It's not enabled by default?
[09:09:46] <boyd> Oh, you mean after LU?
[09:09:47] <Tpenta> fixed in 54 apparantly
[09:09:54] <richlowe> It was disabled on here (non-bfu'd)
[09:10:01] <richlowe> it looks like bfu enables, install doesn't.
[09:10:07] * richlowe can't imagine having disabled it, anyway.
[09:10:10] <printk> yah i've never done live upgrade before... might as well try it now.  Is there a good howto handy?
[09:10:14] * boyd is starting to wonder about waiting for b54
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[09:10:52] <boyd> printk: Do you have a spare slice somewhere?
[09:10:53] <richlowe> boyd: beyond it misplacing some of my settings, everything is seeming fine now.
[09:11:18] <printk> boyd: i have a pretty big ZFS pool i could create a zfs... would that work?
[09:11:19] <boyd> "everything is seeming" !? are you moving to bangalore? :)
[09:11:22] <printk> other than that... no
[09:11:44] <boyd> printk: Not yet, sorry
[09:12:28] <printk> no worries... but I can upgrade by getting the isos right?  I.e. it should give me an upgrade option?
[09:12:47] <boyd> Yes. Do you have any non-=global zones?
[09:12:55] <printk> no
[09:13:54] <boyd> Then you're golden I think
[09:13:57] <printk> cool
[09:14:14] <printk> yah typing b53 over the link doesn't work... not a big deal i'll just wait till the links are updated
[09:14:58] <ski-worklap> hmmm.... i remember this weird blue and green and red installer
[09:15:04] <boyd> printk: Worked for me... on the DVD Version link here: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/
[09:15:06] <richlowe> replacing the 52 with 53 *should* be working.
[09:15:09] <ski-worklap> but i also remember X popping up to do a large portion of the install
[09:15:14] <ski-worklap> but it doesn't seem to happen anymore
[09:15:23] <ski-worklap> install seems text only until the reboot.
[09:15:28] <printk> i'm doing the CD version
[09:15:31] <boyd> ski-worklap: It does if it can get your X going I thikn
[09:15:45] <ski-worklap> ahh right
[09:15:58] <ski-worklap> that's what the Xorg can't figure out what's going on but Xsun can message was about
[09:16:25] <boyd> printk: Works for me with the CD links... you need to register
[09:16:35] <printk> hrm i am registered
[09:16:50] <boyd> An you don't get a login prompt?
[09:16:57] <printk> well i already logged in
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[09:19:02] <ski-worklap> damn, solaris still feels dog slow on x86
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[09:19:20] <ski-worklap> (yeah i'm in a vm, but linux and freebsd in VMs feel snappy compared to this)
[09:19:53] <dlg> you need mp to make it happier
[09:20:24] <ski-worklap> mp as in multi processor?
[09:20:36] <richlowe> it's not being less pleasant than anything else has been, on here at least.
[09:20:45] <richlowe> though given the age of this, it's possible it's just real hard to tell.
[09:21:13] <Firefishe> Hmmm...unplugged my ethernet cable before rebooting; now it works...for now, although it's slow as molasses.
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[09:27:10] <ski-worklap> anyone else running solaris in vmware?
[09:30:52] <Firefishe> I'm now staring at my Desktop login screen but for some reason my keyboard and trackpad just stopped working; no input possible.
[09:31:08] <Firefishe> keymap issues?
[09:31:14] <trygvis> bummer
[09:31:30] <Firefishe> ya trygvis, it is.
[09:31:43] <Firefishe> Although I am making progress upon my first install of
[09:31:48] <Firefishe> Solaris 10
[09:31:57] <Firefishe> Sorry, hit enter prematurely
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[09:34:27] <ski-worklap> Firefishe, control-alt-backspace?
[09:34:43] <ski-worklap> should kill or hopefully restart your display manager
[09:35:01] <ski-worklap> or greeter, or whatever the login screen is called in solaris
[09:35:14] <boyd> dtlogin
[09:35:27] <boyd> or gdm... but dtlogin by default
[09:36:25] <ski-worklap> wtf...
[09:36:30] <ski-worklap> a 32MB kernel patch]
[09:36:46] <ski-worklap> ive never seen a kernel biger than aobut 5MB compresed in linux/bsd, heh
[09:36:56] <Firefishe> ski-worklap:  My laptop's keyboard is completely frozen.  The trackpad doesn't even work.  This has to be some type of keymap issue, I would suspect
[09:37:10] <asyd> ski-worklap: 5MB including all modules ? I don't think so
[09:37:24] <ski-worklap> asyd, yeah, i'm not a modular type of guy
[09:37:25] <ski-worklap> but good point
[09:37:41] <triplah> asyd: i've seen them under 5mb with no modules
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[09:38:02] <triplah> but thats just people who only have what they need, and probably spend too long getting it to that size
[09:38:03] <triplah> ;)
[09:38:19] <ski-worklap> well i'll be. i had no idea i had 77MB of modules (mostly sitting unused) on this ubuntu machine
[09:38:44] <triplah> ubuntu uses modular kernels
[09:38:47] <triplah> which == big
[09:38:49] <triplah> ;)
[09:39:00] <ski-worklap> triplah, nah, you just comment out the major subsystems you don't need, e.g. isdn, scsi if you have ata, etc.
[09:39:03] <boyd> You whippersnappers... my first Linux box only had 8MB Ram.. and I was *happy*
[09:39:04] <Firefishe> ski-worklap:  I've got the login screen so x is working, but I can't type anything in or use my trackpad.  Strange, it was working during earlier install stages.
[09:39:20] <triplah> i've got 2.5gb on here :\
[09:39:25] <ski-worklap> Firefishe, maybe you just lockedup? try a hard reset?
[09:39:45] <ski-worklap> i still want a niagara
[09:39:51] <Firefishe> ski-worklap:  That is actually my only choice, but I'll try it again. ;)
[09:39:57] <ski-worklap> sun wouldn't give me one,m the fsckers
[09:40:12] <Error_404> why do you want one?
[09:40:21] <boyd> Did you just say "Give me a niagara, you fsckers!" ?
[09:40:22] <ski-worklap> cuz it's sexy
[09:40:24] <Error_404> do you do a lot of heavily threaded non-fp loads?
[09:40:34] <Error_404> if not, it'd be an expensive waste of time
[09:40:35] <ski-worklap> Error_404, yes
[09:40:42] <ski-worklap> webserving with mod_perl
[09:40:44] <Error_404> if you can't keep a processor filled with data, you don't need it
[09:40:57] <triplah> niagara = java service machine
[09:40:58] <ski-worklap> wel i didn't *njeed* it, but i sure wanted it :)
[09:41:03] <triplah> haha
[09:41:46] <ski-worklap> they had some program where developers got it free, they said, in essence "uh we mean C developers, not douchebags who just want a fast box for whatever their interpreted language of choice is"
[09:42:20] <ski-worklap> to which i replied i used inline C in my critical loops - they still didn't bite :)
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[09:43:05] <boyd> I'd think that java would count, too
[09:43:19] <ski-worklap> yeah, java/C
[09:43:31] <ski-worklap> and C++
[09:43:45] <Error_404> i find the beta-geek habit of having next to no knowledge of how to use the quirky hardware they stumble across kindof annoying. I deal with those kids all the time in CS classes.... the sort of people who talk about lusting after a cray, despite 1) not knowing how to use vectors and 2) not having an prospective application to run on it
[09:43:46] <ski-worklap> anything that compiles to asm probably
[09:44:22] <boyd> Error_404: I want a porsche. I don't want to drive at 200kmh
[09:44:23] <ski-worklap> Error_404, everyone knows what to do with a cray! run distributed.net! :)
[09:45:11] <Error_404> i don't mean annoying in the sense of "you shouldn't want that" or "you shouldn't have that"
[09:45:35] <Error_404> I mean annoying as in "stop talking to me about it. I don't care..."
[09:46:19] <ski-worklap> Error_404, what's the point of irc if that is your attitude? ;)
[09:46:29] <boyd> But dude... It would be so cool to have a Porsche :)
[09:46:39] <Error_404> but then again, I'm kindof jaded about the fashion geeks... (the guys who don't know crap about computers, but they spend $100 a month at thinkgeek)
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[09:47:25] * ski-worklap doesn't know anyone who spends any money ever on thinkgeek
[09:47:37] <boyd> Me either
[09:47:44] <Error_404> boyd: that's different... porches help you sleep with dumb girls
[09:47:47] <Firefishe> ski-worklap: I hard-rebooted, moved the finger upon the trackpad a bit before the main login screen came up, and voila!  Now it seems I did not add a user LOL
[09:47:53] <boyd> Error_404: lol
[09:48:12] <boyd> Firefishe: So you gave it the finger and it worked?
[09:48:14] <Firefishe> Error_404: I think I rmbr that from my younger daze ;)
[09:48:27] <Firefishe> boyd:  eggs aktly! ;)
[09:48:35] <ski-worklap> Error_404, imagine how many women youcould simultaneously ahve cybersex with on a niagara :)
[09:48:43] <boyd> Doesn't work for me on people :)
[09:48:58] <boyd> err That was in response to Firefishe :)
[09:49:03] <ski-worklap> i suppose you'd need more hands though....
[09:49:36] <Firefishe> boyd:  nor I *sigh*  Sometimes, karmically, it *really* should ;)
[09:49:53] <Firefishe> Considering how people drive around here
[09:50:00] <Error_404> Firefishe: remember which, the "fashion geeks" ?
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[09:50:33] <Firefishe> Error_404: no, the porsches some kids drove ;)
[09:51:05] <boyd> GBS was right
[09:51:08] <Firefishe> porches rather.  (gads I can't spell worth nuthin' tonight)
[09:51:31] <boyd> I think you were right the first time
[09:51:47] <ski-worklap> i don't know how to drive my porch
[09:51:53] <Firefishe> What directory are users stored in on Solaris?  This file system structure sure ain't linux
[09:51:59] <boyd> Slowly is best I think
[09:52:07] <boyd> Firefishe: you mean their home dirs?
[09:52:08] <ski-worklap> Firefishe, /export/home i think
[09:52:22] <Firefishe> ski-worklap:  ya, that sounds right
[09:52:37] <Firefishe> I need to check and see if there's some type of user in there...on to command prompt
[09:52:37] <ski-worklap> for laughs try to create a directory in /home
[09:53:46] <Firefishe> hey, does command complete exist in Solaris 10?
[09:54:01] <razrX> Firefishe: that's a shell thing
[09:54:04] <boyd> aw crap.. the boot disk just disappeared from the controller on this U5. In mid flight
[09:54:06] <Error_404> depends on the shell
[09:54:13] <Error_404> you can set your shell to bash if you like
[09:54:40] <razrX> i'd recommend setting it to /bin/zsh :)
[09:54:47] <Error_404> ugh, i hate zsh
[09:54:56] <razrX> the one true shell ;)
[09:55:01] <Firefishe> I hear zsh is quite the shell.
[09:55:08] <boyd> De gustibus non disputandum est
[09:55:11] <Firefishe> but I'm a bash freak
[09:55:12] <asyd> zsh !!!
[09:55:14] <Firefishe> and I just did, and voila!  command complete!
[09:55:27] <ski-worklap> hmm, i must have missed something in useradd, as when i try to login as that user, solaris goes to the command prompt for a sec then returns to the login screen
[09:55:32] <Firefishe> thank you gentlemen
[09:55:33] <ski-worklap> the shell is in /etc/shells
[09:55:40] <ski-worklap> the homedir exists and is owned by the user
[09:55:41] <razrX> yw
[09:55:44] <ski-worklap> what else might i have missed?
[09:55:46] <asyd> btw, I start to write completions functions for zones tools
[09:55:49] <asyd> (for zsh)
[09:55:58] <Firefishe> I had to log in as root, however.  good thing the lappie isn't connected to the net
[09:56:02] <razrX> asyd: nice, more compinit stuff
[09:56:05] <boyd> We should get a solaris zsh project going... it's fragmented ATM
[09:56:14] <asyd> boyd: +1
[09:56:24] <razrX> boyd: +1
[09:56:38] <boyd> Ok, I'll see what I can do... I have to go offline right now
[09:56:58] <boyd> dduvall had some good stuff already
[09:57:05] <boyd> Bye, y'all
[09:57:10] <asyd> I start to wrote function for smf too
[09:57:17] <boyd> He has som of them
[09:57:22] <boyd> lemme find it
[09:57:28] <Firefishe> ski-worklap: You said to, for fun, to try to make a directory in /home?
[09:57:39] <ski-worklap> heh, yeap
[09:57:42] <Firefishe> My /home directory is, apparently, empty
[09:58:01] <boyd> http://www.comfychair.org/~duvall/zsh/Solaris/
[09:58:08] <Firefishe> it won't make my laptop's plastic shell melt or nothin' will it? ;)
[09:58:18] * boyd &
[09:58:23] <Firefishe> I mean, it *is* solaris by sun and... *duck*
[09:58:30] <ski-worklap> no it just gives a weird (to me) error
[09:58:37] <ski-worklap> "operation not applicable"
[09:58:41] <ski-worklap> i dunno if /home is union mounted or what
[09:58:54] <asyd> http://asyd.net/home/geeklog/2006/09/07/solaris_zsh
[09:58:57] <Firefishe> yeah
[09:59:00] <Firefishe> what is a union mounted situation?
[09:59:27] <ski-worklap> well i'm not sure if that's even the right term in solaris
[09:59:37] <Firefishe> ah
[09:59:44] <ski-worklap> but union mount, as it exists in bsd, is when you have one directory, and overlay deltas in another
[09:59:59] <ski-worklap> so for example you have a directory of deltas for your cdrom mount point
[10:00:04] <Firefishe> which I'm not familiar with.
[10:00:10] <ski-worklap> then you can make changes, as if the cdrom were writable
[10:00:15] <Firefishe> deltas  ^^^^^
[10:00:20] <Firefishe> liek that?
[10:00:44] <ski-worklap> e.g. cd /where/you/union/mounted/the/cd ; rm -f somefile ; echo "create" > another_file
[10:00:45] <razrX> just finished lucreate on a sxcr:52 box. now that 53 is out, i can experiment a bit ?
[10:00:48] <Firefishe> Please pardon my newbie-dom ;)
[10:01:05] <razrX> hmm, sxcr 52 still the offered version on the download center
[10:01:06] <ski-worklap> Firefishe, nevermind it all, it's rather obscure and unimportant
[10:01:23] <jengelh> download center is always late
[10:02:03] *** Dar_HOME is now known as Dar
[10:02:11] <Firefishe> ski-worklap: Oh, I'm interested in the nuances underlying new (to me) OS's.  Solaris is (to me) only slightly more obscure...and besides, I've been using linux since Mandrake 5.2 or something, so it's gonna take a while.
[10:02:29] <jengelh> the more obscure an OS is (e.g. Inferno) the more interesting
[10:03:10] <Firefishe> how do I add a new user?  adduser does not seem to be here
[10:04:28] <Firefishe> jengelh: I have to agree on that principle :)  About as obscure as running Solaris 10 on this underpowerhorse of a laptop I currently have it installed on ;)
[10:04:35] <Firefishe> exit
[10:04:35] <razrX> Firefishe: useradd(1M)
[10:04:39] <Firefishe> oops ;)
[10:04:46] <Firefishe> wrong keyboard LOL
[10:04:59] <Firefishe> what is (1M)?
[10:05:07] <ski-worklap> jengelh, inferno is to unix as c++ is to c
[10:05:08] <razrX> section of the manpage
[10:05:21] <ski-worklap> a few good ideas, but mostly what you remember are the hideous warts
[10:05:25] <Firefishe> thank you
[10:05:26] <razrX> man(1) ;)
[10:06:05] <razrX> as in: man useradd will give you the 1M section of useradd already
[10:06:16] <Firefishe> Here's an interesting message...username too long
[10:06:24] <Firefishe> 10 letters??
[10:06:37] <razrX> but some manpages have several sections so you can: man -s 1M useradd (just an example)
[10:06:56] <ski-worklap> Firefishe, any login name longer than 3 characters is unnecessary :)
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[10:07:14] <razrX> ski-worklap: as in ski or as in god? ;)
[10:07:26] <ski-worklap> ok 4 if you can't root
[10:07:49] <Firefishe> ski-worklap: Now *this* is a concept I'm totally brain-bonked on.  3 character limit in Solaris?
[10:08:02] <ski-worklap> Firefishe, sorry i was being a bit sarcastic
[10:08:11] <ski-worklap> s/can't/count/
[10:08:15] <Error_404> brb
[10:08:17] <ski-worklap> damn i'm tired. time to turn in
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[10:08:19] <Firefishe> heeee (falling off c hair)
[10:08:32] <Firefishe> well, sleep well
[10:08:52] <Firefishe> thanks for the help :) I appreciate it...will continue to plod on, and do a lot of RTFM'ing as the night wears on
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[10:09:25] <ski-worklap> i wonder why it takes so long to instal these updates
[10:09:30] <ski-worklap> the downloading finished a long time ago
[10:09:39] <Error_404> there we go... irssiproxy works again
[10:09:42] <Error_404> much better
[10:09:43] <ski-worklap> mebbe i need more ram on this sucka
[10:09:47] <ski-worklap> a problem for tomorrow
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[10:14:51] <Firefishe> I switched to a shell from the gui login and did my useradd and such, but somehow I'm now at a blank page that accepts text, but no login screen...and I can't get out?  Any ideas?
[10:15:06] <Firefishe> nm..it just came back...must be a delay
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[10:16:44] <Error_404> yes, once you exit out of a command line shell it takes about 10 seconds for dtgreet to come back up
[10:22:33] <Firefishe> Error_404:  Thanks.  I'm in "java sun desktop" (gnome I guess)
[10:22:50] <Firefishe> StarOffice7, nice touch :)
[10:22:53] <Error_404> yes, it's a mildly modified gnome
[10:23:07] <Firefishe> seems to do the job just fine.
[10:23:16] <Firefishe> cde was a bit sparse, but I'd always wanted to experience it
[10:24:38] <richlowe> there's also LSARC 2006/664, which looks like it intends to bundle soffice 8.
[10:24:49] <richlowe> (bets it'll add yet another CD?)
[10:27:22] <Firefishe> Hmm...no sound, grand.
[10:27:37] <Firefishe> Is ALSA available for solaris?
[10:28:00] <Error_404> no, the advanced LINUX sound architecture is not availiable in solaris
[10:28:14] <Error_404> neither is CoreAudio
[10:28:19] <Error_404> or DirectSound
[10:28:27] <Firefishe> Error_404: I know it's linux...I thought, perhaps, it was ported for solaris.
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[10:29:18] <Firefishe> Is there some type of sound package available?
[10:29:32] <Error_404> OSS
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[10:31:52] <Firefishe> Is there a website of available packages for Solaris 10?  Like OSS?
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[10:32:08] <Error_404> OSS is already installed
[10:32:31] <Firefishe> Which means, essentially, that my sound chip is not supported
[10:33:09] <richlowe> OSS is what now?
[10:33:24] <Error_404> if it doesn't work, you just need drivers
[10:33:27] <Error_404> check bigadmin
[10:34:34] <Firefishe> bigadmin?  sorry, not familiar with that
[10:34:56] <Error_404> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/
[10:36:08] <Firefishe> thank you
[10:37:53] <Error_404> the announce script ought to list useful solaris sites
[10:38:07] <Error_404> docs.sun.com, bigadmin, etc
[10:42:16] <Firefishe> ah, thank you again
[10:42:51] <Firefishe> I just plugged in my ethernet cable (hangs when it's plugged in for some reason).  What is the command to bring up the network?
[10:43:31] <Error_404> man ifconfig
[10:43:38] <Cyrille> www.bigadmin.com will redirect to the proper site too.
[10:43:57] <Firefishe> ifconfig....doh.
[10:44:12] <twincest> OSS ships with Solaris now?
[10:44:13] <Firefishe> Hmm.. /etc has the ol' rc.x stuff.  I'd heard about this.
[10:44:27] <Error_404> twincest: doesn't it?
[10:44:36] <Error_404> did I install it & forget doing it?
[10:44:40] <twincest> i don't know, that's why i'm asking
[10:44:49] <twincest> it never did last time i installed (b27) but maybe it changed
[10:45:48] <Error_404> Firefishe: /etc/rc.x is deprecated (not really)... use SMF instead
[10:46:20] <Firefishe> smf?
[10:46:38] <Cyrille> man smf ;-)
[10:46:45] <Error_404> service management facility
[10:46:48] <Firefishe> doh
[10:46:56] * Firefishe mans the man
[10:47:01] <Firefishe> that doesn't sound right
[10:47:05] <Error_404> a subsystem which is part of solaris 10's predictive self healing
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[10:48:23] <ZZZki-worklap> is there a way to get flash9 working on solaris/x86 ?
[10:48:25] <boro> morning
[10:49:00] <Error_404> ZZZki-worklap: illegally gain access to adobe's servers
[10:49:03] <Error_404> *shrug*
[10:49:07] <boro> flash9 as a flash plugin for browsers ?
[10:49:21] <ZZZki-worklap> boro, ya
[10:49:22] <boro> for linux its supposed to work at the beginning of 2007
[10:49:35] <boro> so i don't suppose solaris will be earlier with this
[10:49:37] <ZZZki-worklap> flash9 works on linux now
[10:49:47] <boro> really ?
[10:49:48] <Saltsa> ZZZki-worklap: in linux and with ie6 it's currently working
[10:50:04] <boro> so i said nothing ;)
[10:51:10] <andersmo> ZZZki-worklap: Have you tried installing a brandz zone with centos and running firefox with the flash9 linux beta in it? =)
[10:51:21] <boro> when i run the same app in different zones, do they share code segments in memory, or are those separate ?
[10:51:49] <ZZZki-worklap> andersmo, brandz zone?
[10:52:11] <ZZZki-worklap> hmmm sounds like somepin i need to google
[10:52:22] <andersmo> ZZZki-worklap: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/brandz/
[10:52:39] <ZZZki-worklap> what's the best way to install various free software i need
[10:52:50] <andersmo> "zones that contain non-native operating environments" - i.e. the lx brand, which lets you install red hat enterprise or centos.
[10:52:51] <ZZZki-worklap> e.g. nano, locate, etc.
[10:53:07] <Firefishe> Error_404: is smf
[10:54:44] <Error_404> Firefishe: hmm?
[10:55:03] <Error_404> ZZZki-worklap: blastwave.org
[10:55:13] <Error_404> or sunfreeware.org
[10:55:18] <Error_404> ( .com ?)
[10:56:06] <Firefishe> oops...sorry Error_404
[10:56:09] <Firefishe> typo]\
[10:56:16] <ZZZki-worklap> does either have a gui that just downloads packages & installs them seemlessly like the solaris update thing or synaptic on ubuntu etc ?
[10:56:35] <Error_404> nope
[10:56:48] <Error_404> but pkg-get is the same as apt-get
[10:56:52] <ZZZki-worklap> hmm maybe i can get netbsd pkgsrc running here
[10:56:56] * ZZZki-worklap backs up
[10:56:58] <ZZZki-worklap> pkg-get, eh?
[10:57:03] <Error_404> like, # pkg-get install nano
[10:57:12] <raph_ael> hello
[10:57:18] <Error_404> ZZZki-worklap, yes, pkg-get... that's what you grab things off blastwave with
[10:57:25] <ZZZki-worklap> pkg-get - command not found.
[10:57:27] <ZZZki-worklap> ah i see it's 3rd party
[10:57:43] <Error_404> no, of course it wasn't found, you need to install it first
[10:57:54] <Error_404> go to blastwave, run through the howto
[10:59:52] <Error_404> option 2 is to just use nexenta, which is more or less ubuntu with some of the solaris O/N bits
[11:03:57] <Firefishe> What is, usually, the first ethernet device listed as?
[11:04:08] <Error_404> depends on the driver
[11:04:15] <Firefishe> ah
[11:04:32] <Error_404> my sempron's sfe0, my sparc is hme0
[11:05:16] <Posixzombie> What is the max number of cores T2 can have ? is it also 8 ?
[11:05:19] <Firefishe> hmmm...
[11:05:43] <Firefishe> Error_404: my prtconf output gives me a lot of drivers not attached messages
[11:06:06] <Posixzombie> I know that it is  capable of running 64 threads,
[11:06:09] <Error_404> that's normal
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[11:14:04] <Firefishe> What is the command for finding one's network interfaces?
[11:14:29] <Error_404> ifconfig -a
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[11:15:34] <Berny> ifconfig -a only shows plumbed interfaces?
[11:15:43] <Firefishe> thank you
[11:17:19] <Firefishe> hmmm...only lists the loopback device
[11:17:24] <Firefishe> lo0
[11:17:25] <ZZZki-worklap> you are screwed
[11:17:35] <silk> look in /etc/path_to_inst
[11:17:42] <silk> or, ifconfig -a plumb
[11:17:48] <silk> then ifconfig -a
[11:17:52] <ZZZki-worklap> turn your computer off quick, before it explodes! :)
[11:19:15] <Firefishe> Hmm..let's see:  ubuntu dapper on power pc g4 powerbook, debian 3.1 sarge on my desktop, suse 10.1 on my other laptop's drive that's currently out of the lappie (solaris 10 stand alone, which I'm *learning* now ;) thanks to all you happy, helpful people.  etc. etc.
[11:19:44] <Firefishe> and fink/open source build system on Mac OS-X Tiger 10.4.x
[11:20:05] <Firefishe> I'm not so much an expert, but I know how to live "dangerously"
[11:20:09] <Firefishe> ;)
[11:21:04] <ZZZki-worklap> Firefishe, use macports (formerly known as darwinports) on your mac os box
[11:21:11] <ZZZki-worklap> much more up to date and generally cleaner than fink
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[11:21:52] <Firefishe> ZZZki-worklap: I'll look into that.  macports have some kind of inteface, similar to fink commander or something?
[11:21:58] <Firefishe> interface
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[11:22:53] <Firefishe> or is the software stand-alone binaries you run from x11?>
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[11:23:27] <ZZZki-worklap> Firefishe, i use the command line interface, but i bet there is a graphical one
[11:24:01] <ZZZki-worklap> it's kind of a mix of the freebsd ports tree and apt-get - you do port install foobar, and that downloads, builds, and installs the port
[11:24:49] <dwc-> that sounds like ... ports.
[11:25:09] <Firefishe> sounds similar to debian's methodology..I have not had the pleasure of using BSD yet.
[11:25:33] <Firefishe> ah, time will tell :)
[11:26:41] <Firefishe> silk: I looked at my /etc/path_to_inst file.  What am I looking for in here?
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[11:27:03] <Berny> Firefishe: grep for network
[11:27:58] <Firefishe> well, it's open in gedit, and I see no "network" listing anywhere
[11:29:29] <silk> sparc or x86?
[11:29:35] <Firefishe> x86
[11:31:13] <Firefishe> I'd paste something at rafb.net but I don't have any way of getting the paste from the laptop to the box I'm typing on
[11:31:58] <ZZZki-worklap> my hostname is stuck as "unknown" - how can i change that?
[11:32:01] <silk> What sort of NIC is in there?
[11:32:36] <silk> grep for iprb
[11:33:29] <razrX> ZZZki-worklap: you using dhcp?
[11:33:38] <ZZZki-worklap> razrX, yep
[11:33:50] <razrX> add your hostname to /etc/nodename
[11:33:54] <razrX> you need to create it
[11:33:59] <razrX> it doesn't exist by default
[11:34:06] <ZZZki-worklap> nodename, not hostname?
[11:34:07] <Firefishe> silk:  as in  prtconf | grep iprb ?
[11:34:17] <silk> just in path_to_inst
[11:34:31] <silk> from the cmdline you can try ifconfig -a plumb
[11:34:37] <razrX> and if you're solaris box is in an windows environment and they allow for dynamic dns registration you can do following:
[11:35:04] <ZZZki-worklap> i also get warnings about not being able to resolve loghost.... what's that about?
[11:35:09] <razrX> add : inet hostname to /etc/hostname.interface (ie /etc/hostname.bge0)
[11:35:36] <razrX> the inet keyword sends your hostname to the DHCP server
[11:35:48] <ZZZki-worklap> ahh, the nodename thing seems to have done the trick
[11:35:57] <razrX> just for setting it, yes
[11:36:01] <Firefishe> silk:  did the plumb command a while ago, no dice
[11:36:11] <Firefishe> still only listing the loopback interface
[11:36:12] <Firefishe> lo0
[11:36:56] <Firefishe> silk:  also, searching the file in gedit yielded no string "iprb"; it's not in there
[11:37:39] <richlowe> What kind of NIC is it?
[11:37:49] <silk> ok... do you know what type of NIC you have?
[11:39:20] <Firefishe> I should...but I don't rmbr.  I'
[11:39:21] <Firefishe> I
[11:39:24] <Firefishe> sheesh
[11:39:47] <Firefishe> I'll have to boot up knoppix or something and "lshw" the system
[11:40:12] <Firefishe> isn't there a way solaris can pick up character strings of devices?
[11:40:25] <Firefishe> instead of just hardware addresses?
[11:41:04] <ZZZki-worklap> you mean like an lspci style thing?
[11:41:19] <Firefishe> yes
[11:42:28] <Firefishe> I think it might be a "MacPhyter"
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[11:51:58] <Sinist3r> hey guys I heard there is supposed to be a project that is making opensolaris with a GNU userland, is this true?
[11:52:39] <Gr|ffous> absolutely
[11:52:40] <Error_404> nexenta
[11:52:50] <Sinist3r> cool
[11:52:55] <Sinist3r> how far along is the project?
[11:53:10] <Error_404> not sure *why* you'd want a gnu userspace, but *shrug* people seem to like it so that's cool
[11:53:27] <Sinist3r> I'm just familiar to it.
[11:53:36] <Gr|ffous> I'm not too sure sorry Error_404, I just use opensolaris
[11:53:39] <Sinist3r> solaris options and minor differences just annoy me.
[11:53:47] <Sinist3r> not saying it's bad, just saying I'm not used to it
[11:54:44] <Error_404> anyways, as far as I've heard, nexenta's fairly stable
[11:54:51] <trygvis> nexenta is really good
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[11:55:55] <Berny> why is sdlc so slow today?
[11:56:10] <Sinist3r> well the backend of it is solaris it says
[11:56:14] <Error_404> tubes are clogged
[11:56:19] <ZZZki-worklap> is there an equivalent to tar cfz foo.tgz without installing the gnu tools?
[11:56:22] <Sinist3r> so I'm guessing it would be as stable as solaris is
[11:56:34] <ZZZki-worklap> err let me try that again
[11:56:46] <ZZZki-worklap> is there an equivalent to "tar xfz foo.tgz" without installing the gnu tools?
[11:56:52] <ZZZki-worklap> besides gunzip -c foo.tgz | tar xf -
[11:56:55] <Firefishe> Anyone ever get cursor skipping on their solaris laptop when  something is installing?
[11:57:03] <ZZZki-worklap> Firefishe, sure
[11:57:13] <ZZZki-worklap> or any non-realtime system for that matter
[11:57:59] <Sinist3r> quick question
[11:58:04] <Firefishe> ZZZki-worklap: non-realtime?  is that what solaris is?
[11:58:18] <Sinist3r> can I compile code for linux on OS?
[11:58:27] <Error_404> Sinist3r, with a cross compiler, sure
[11:58:30] <Gr|ffous> Berny, I'm getting 500kB/sec what speed are you getting?
[11:58:41] <ZZZki-worklap> Firefishe, it might have realtime support, but i doubt x11 gets that by default
[11:58:51] <Berny> 350-400k (usually i see 1.5M/s)
[11:58:59] <Error_404> you can compile linux/ppc binaries on solaris/sparc if you feel like it, given a properly constructed cross compiler
[11:59:22] * ZZZki-worklap wonders how much work it will be to compile for x86 on amd64
[11:59:22] <Error_404> ZZZki-worklap, X11 is in the IA scheduling class
[11:59:34] <Error_404> it's FSS with a bit of a priority boost
[11:59:45] <ZZZki-worklap> FSS?
[11:59:50] <Error_404> fair share scheduler
[11:59:53] <ZZZki-worklap> ie, not real time
[12:00:01] <Error_404> solaris has a realtime scheduler
[12:00:26] <richlowe> IA is not FSS based.
[12:00:43] <richlowe> IA is TS based, with a priority boost for (ideally) the focussed window (or apps therein)
[12:00:50] <ZZZki-worklap> sure, but does x11 run as a realtime app by default? i highly doubt that
[12:00:52] <Error_404> richlowe, you are correct...
[12:01:11] <Error_404> ZZZki-worklap, it absolutely does not. not in solaris, not in linux, not in BSD
[12:01:25] <ZZZki-worklap> Error_404, actually, it does in some linuces
[12:01:34] <richlowe> I also highly recommend not fooling around incautiously with RT.
[12:01:47] <richlowe> though it can be fun, you have to have a real odd sense of fun...
[12:02:05] <jteo> eh?
[12:02:16] <ZZZki-worklap> fun == like to reboot
[12:03:12] <Error_404> I've never heard of linux putting X in the realtime scheduling class... that sounds like a profoundly bad idea to me
[12:03:25] <ZZZki-worklap> doesn't mean linux devs haven't done it :)
[12:03:26] <Firefishe> Might more RAM reduce the skipping?
[12:03:57] <ZZZki-worklap> oh neat. so with brandz i can install firefox on linux with fp9 and all the other plugins i "need" and just use that
[12:04:04] <Error_404> richlowe, huh, i guess it is TS based... i dunno why i messed that one up
[12:06:58] <ZZZki-worklap> i wonder if i can share copy/paste buffers across brandz
[12:08:09] <Firefishe> Well, all, thanks for your help.  I must delve into the secrets of Solaris 10 another night.  Time for this fishe to hit the rack.
[12:08:24] <Firefishe> Be well, each and every one of you.  Thanks again for all the help.
[12:08:28] <Firefishe> :)
[12:08:33] <Firefishe> Good night.
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[12:20:25] <ZZZki-worklap> /usr/ucb/cc:   language optional software package not installed
[12:20:31] <ZZZki-worklap> anyone knows how to fix this?
[12:21:05] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: yes, install Sun Studio compilers
[12:21:39] <ZZZki-worklap> is that free?
[12:21:54] <jmcp> yes, for Studio 11 - latest version
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[12:44:43] * LeftWing hearts Studio 11.
[12:47:15] <twincest> that won't fix /usr/ucb/cc not working
[12:47:23] <twincest> the fix for that is, don't put /usr/ucb in your path
[12:47:28] <ZZZki-worklap> twincest, oh no?
[12:47:58] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: correct. you need to have an instance of "cc" in your path, and having /usr/ucb in your path is badness
[12:48:48] <twincest> (or if you really, really have to use /usr/ucb for some reason, make sure it's at the end)
[12:49:00] <ZZZki-worklap> removing /usr/ucb from my path also gives bash: cc: command not found
[12:49:02] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: /usr/ucb is a throwback to SunOS4 days
[12:49:13] <jmcp> that's a different message
[12:49:21] <twincest> did you install Studio yet?
[12:49:25] <twincest> add /opt/SUNWspro/bin to your path
[12:49:32] <ZZZki-worklap> not yet, no
[12:49:39] <twincest> well you won't have cc until you do
[12:49:41] <ZZZki-worklap> or rather, it's still chugging
[12:49:59] <ZZZki-worklap> oh so by that not working you just mean that /usr/ucb/cc won't work, but cc will
[12:50:06] <jmcp> twincest: should we mention the existence of /usr/sfw/bin/gcc at this point ?
[12:50:11] <twincest> z: yes
[12:50:14] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: correct
[12:50:35] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: boy oh boy you should have been a Sun user back when cc got unbundled
[12:50:36] <ZZZki-worklap> k, thought you were saying something very different
[12:50:47] <ZZZki-worklap> when was that?
[12:50:58] <jmcp> 1991
[12:51:01] <ZZZki-worklap> heh
[12:51:04] <ZZZki-worklap> i was 11
[12:51:05] <jmcp> all hell broke loose
[12:51:08] <ZZZki-worklap> i bet
[12:51:21] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: so you're the same age as my bro-in-law. heh
[12:51:23] <twincest> was that with 2.0?
[12:51:34] <jteo> 1991
[12:51:35] <jteo> mmm
[12:51:56] <jmcp> twincest: it was actually SunOS 4.1.4
[12:52:02] <twincest> ah
[12:52:05] <jmcp> which was not-quite Solaris 2.0
[12:53:54] * jmcp continues with his expense report ....
[12:54:48] <jteo> ooh money matters
[12:54:57] <Vanuatoo> Can anyone explain why firefox flies on windows and crawls on solaris? We've got dtrace, why it's still not optimized
[12:55:35] <jmcp> Vanuatoo: yeah, brendang can
[12:55:38] <jmcp> but he's not in today
[12:57:05] <richlowe> having the ability to find out what's wrong, actually knowing what's wrong, and having the ability/cycles to fix what's wrong are all very different things.
[12:57:12] <Doc> he'll just blame the 1 character writes
[12:58:29] <Vanuatoo> Is adobe going to release new flash player only for linux? Or will we have the pleasure to see 8.0,9.0 sites
[12:59:04] <richlowe> Given their damn logo on the JDS splash screen, I sure as hell hope they put the new flash out for Solaris too.
[12:59:21] <movement> Vanuatoo: mozilla org only really care about windows, that's why
[12:59:30] <movement> it's just as slow on other UNIXes too
[13:00:11] <Vanuatoo> movement: While it;s slow on linux, it's fairly usable compared to solaris
[13:00:43] <Vanuatoo> My cpu usage only goes up when using firefox
[13:01:10] <Vanuatoo> it has problems with sites with big tables
[13:01:19] <movement> Vanuatoo: I don't see any noticable difference
[13:01:25] <Vanuatoo> rendering is also slow
[13:01:46] <Vanuatoo> I compared to ubuntu linux's firefox and it never uses cpu that much
[13:02:11] <Vanuatoo> It's really impossible to work fast in the browser
[13:02:32] <Vanuatoo> Even when you press back, the page should load instantly but it crawls
[13:02:54] <Vanuatoo> and when cpu usage is going high mouse motion is slowing down and mouse becomes less responsive
[13:03:03] <movement> are you comparing version to version?
[13:03:09] <Vanuatoo> yes
[13:03:14] <Vanuatoo> version to version
[13:03:42] <Vanuatoo> On linux I've not problem with firefox just the memory usage
[13:03:55] <Vanuatoo> on solaris there is also cpu problem in addition
[13:04:09] <movement> what solaris version?
[13:04:26] <Vanuatoo> Solaris Express 11/06 (build 50)
[13:04:37] <movement> hmm, weird
[13:04:42] <twincest> opera works great on solaris ;-)
[13:04:54] <Vanuatoo> I don't like it
[13:05:01] <Vanuatoo> QT interface
[13:05:13] <Vanuatoo> Kinda alien on my desktop
[13:05:37] <Vanuatoo> movement: This problem exists till Solaris express 9/05
[13:05:45] <Vanuatoo> since I meant
[13:06:16] <Vanuatoo> I time to time complain about that but noone cares I guess
[13:06:27] <razrX> jmcp: any other way to get the SXCR:53 chunks besides the download center (since it's still offering 52) ?
[13:06:38] <jmcp> genunix.org not updated its torrents yet then?
[13:06:50] <jmcp> razrX: apart from that, no idea
[13:06:59] <razrX> ah, thx anyway
[13:07:10] <razrX> didn't know about the torrents
[13:07:12] <movement> Vanuatoo: well, did you file a bug?
[13:07:48] <Berny> razrX: grab the url from download center and replace 52 by 53 ;)
[13:07:57] <Vanuatoo> I did
[13:07:58] <Berny> that how i just got b53
[13:08:07] <Vanuatoo> but could not find after that
[13:08:20] <Vanuatoo> bug system is not very user friendly
[13:08:46] <movement> I think you get an email telling you the ID?
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[13:09:24] <Vanuatoo> I received some intermediate mail
[13:09:29] <Vanuatoo> but after that no sign
[13:09:46] <razrX> Berny: doh, that simple huh
[13:09:47] <razrX> ;)
[13:09:53] <Vanuatoo> I had the case when one of my bugs was visible but internally it was marked as incomplete
[13:10:02] <Berny> razrX: sometimes ;-)
[13:10:02] <Vanuatoo> gman told me about that
[13:10:19] <richlowe> The only realistic way to find out anything b.o.o doesn't tell you is to ask someone who can see the real information.
[13:10:28] <Vanuatoo> It's a joke to offer such bug system. only three fields in search
[13:10:32] <richlowe> It does allow external people on interest lists, but you actually get *less* information that way.
[13:10:35] <movement> indeed.
[13:10:46] <richlowe> Vanuatoo: the phrase I used was "So awful it should provoke corporate embarrassment"
[13:10:58] <richlowe> believe it or not, people weren't so happy about that as a justification ;)
[13:11:25] <Berny> richlowe: how many new friends did that statement make you? ;-)
[13:11:43] <Vanuatoo> can't you just use bugzila
[13:11:59] <Vanuatoo> or some other system
[13:12:00] <richlowe> there is a *vast* amount of data and tools that would need to be migrated to facilitate any kind of switch.
[13:12:17] <richlowe> whether or not that is easier or harder than getting the needed changes made to the current system, who knows?
[13:12:39] <Vanuatoo> richlowe: When opensolaris was in its infancy why did not you choose ready system
[13:12:41] <Vanuatoo> There was no data to migrate
[13:13:03] <richlowe> The bug database hasn't been in it's infancy for a long, long time.
[13:13:11] <richlowe> that is a (heavily butchered) view of Sun's bug database.
[13:13:15] <Vanuatoo> As a user I would like to see some reports
[13:13:16] <richlowe> restricted to the solaris/ product.
[13:13:21] <Vanuatoo> of the ongoing activity
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[13:13:40] <movement> Vanuatoo: there were tens of thousands of bugs to migrate/interface!
[13:13:41] <Vanuatoo> We're open source project I guess
[13:13:48] <richlowe> there hasn't been "no data" since around 1994.
[13:13:54] <richlowe> maybe earlier, but I recall 94 being the earliest I've seen.
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[13:14:27] <Vanuatoo> richlowe: I understand, I just want to be part of the community but tools don't allow me that
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[13:14:48] <richlowe> where b.o.o is concerned, it doesn't particularly allow anyone that.
[13:14:59] <movement> richlowe: before that too
[13:15:19] <richlowe> In the vast majority of cases the only useful interface to the bug database is people with SWAN access.
[13:15:29] <Vanuatoo> Can anyone tell me the program to configure a windows shared printer
[13:17:13] <ZZZki-worklap> autoexec.bat ?
[13:17:18] <ZZZki-worklap> :)
[13:18:55] <Vanuatoo> ZZZki-worklap: you don't use printers I guess
[13:21:03] <Cyrille> otherwise you'd know it's config.sys ;-)
[13:21:21] <ZZZki-worklap> Vanuatoo, actually i have, about 3 times in the past year, heh
[13:21:54] <Vanuatoo> Can you mail me a copy of your autoexec.bat
[13:21:55] <Vanuatoo> ?
[13:22:04] <Vanuatoo> :D
[13:22:06] <ZZZki-worklap> don't have one :P
[13:22:17] <ZZZki-worklap> i run windows new technology, baby!
[13:22:21] <Vanuatoo> Unlucky day
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[13:22:46] <Vanuatoo> I guess you're on the wrong channel
[13:26:14] <ZZZki-worklap> is it possible to resize slices and grow/shrink the filesystems underneath in solaris?
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[13:27:18] <ZZZki-worklap> the fs's are ufs presumably (i'm guessing that's still solaris's default)
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[13:28:02] <jmcp> yes, ufs is still the default fs
[13:28:22] <jmcp> you can growfs but there's no shrinkfs
[13:28:27] <ZZZki-worklap> d'oh
[13:28:30] <jmcp> growfs has some significant limitations on it
[13:28:39] <jmcp> which you'll be well advised to RTFM on
[13:28:41] <ZZZki-worklap> i knew i sohuldn't have let it auto-partition
[13:28:50] <jmcp> TFM explains things really well. http://docs.sun.com
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[13:33:58] <jteo> b.o.o. is like a really bad text adventure
[13:34:06] <richlowe> LOOK
[13:34:08] <richlowe> GO INSANE
[13:34:09] <richlowe> etc.
[13:34:10] <richlowe> :)
[13:36:25] <LeftWing> Hmm.  Can I use Authorisations (/etc/security/auth_attr) to hand out access to a regular user to restart an SMF service?
[13:37:17] <trygvis> let me know when you find out LeftWing
[13:37:22] <LeftWing> It would appear that I can.
[13:37:36] <LeftWing> Having just assigned myself solaris.smf.manage.sendmail
[13:37:38] <richlowe> if the service has auths specified in its manifest, yes.
[13:38:18] <LeftWing> That's really neat.
[13:39:28] <coolvibe> SMF++
[13:39:49] * LeftWing nods.
[13:40:04] <coolvibe> creating manifests is also easy
[13:40:11] <LeftWing> Yeah.
[13:40:30] <coolvibe> I made one for net-snmp the other day, hella simple
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[13:41:58] <Berny> why the heck does the solairs installer take roughly 20mins to check the update profile and another 20mins to check filesystem space (looks like it's doing the same thing twice?)
[13:43:33] <LeftWing> Because it's a fine installer.
[13:43:42] <coolvibe> he's checking the blocks, checking them twice, it's gonna find out if blocks were naughty or nice
[13:43:53] <LeftWing> Or renice.
[13:44:13] <coolvibe> suninstall is coming to town
[13:44:18] * coolvibe hums
[13:44:36] <Berny> .oO(guys take me seriously... pleeeeaaaasseee...)
[13:45:01] <coolvibe> Berny: actually, I have no idea :)
[13:45:30] <coolvibe> that, and I'm in a yule spirit for some reason
[13:45:39] <jteo> i blame the alcohol coolvibe.
[13:45:48] <LeftWing> Haha, I blame the Yule Spirits. =P
[13:46:05] <Berny> is started about an hour ago and gotta leave in 10mins... i'm now at 1% of the update :-\
[13:46:19] <coolvibe> jteo: not likely, I am at work and I had a great lunch
[13:46:56] <jteo> coolvibe, :)
[13:46:59] <jteo> sugar high?
[13:47:05] <coolvibe> jteo: something like that
[13:47:28] <coolvibe> calorie high more likely, but hey :)
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[13:48:02] <coolvibe> Berny: you using liveupgrade or somesuch?
[13:48:33] <Berny> not on the notebook :-\
[13:48:52] <Berny> as soon as u3 is out i'll try that on some big iron though ;-)
[13:50:13] <coolvibe> upgrade of solaris using suninstall hasn't always worked out for me though, when I need to upgrade, I usually wipe the OS and start anew. (having made backups of course)
[13:50:38] <jteo> upgrade always works for me.
[13:50:41] <coolvibe> flar files really speed things along :)
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[13:52:31] <coolvibe> jteo: I usually go for LU (and I partition my disks accordingly), which never failed for me
[13:53:17] <coolvibe> but when a box was not installed by me, and it needs to be upgraded, I wipe it
[13:53:29] <jteo> coolvibe, ah
[13:53:55] <coolvibe> gradually every box here will be lu-able :)
[13:54:09] <coolvibe> stupid legacy :P
[13:54:28] <jteo> it's called history emiel.
[13:54:29] <jteo> ;)
[13:54:37] <coolvibe> jteo: whatever you call it :)
[13:55:13] <coolvibe> lots of Solaris 8 boxes here, we're moving to Solaris 10
[13:55:24] <jteo> coolvibe, thank goodness. ;)
[13:55:27] <coolvibe> (slowly but surely) :)
[13:55:34] <ZZZki-worklap> hmm, file says all my solaris binaries are 32 bit x86... so is it only the kernel that runs in 64 bit mode by default?
[13:55:45] <coolvibe> ZZZki-worklap: something like that, yeah
[13:56:08] <quasi> squeezing in room for LU on an old box with 18G disk and the apps on the same disk is sometimes a "challenge"
[13:56:09] <jteo> ZZZki-worklap, solaris can run 32 bit and 64 bit binaries at the same time.
[13:56:36] <ZZZki-worklap> jteo, but if i were to look for a 64 bit binary on my system (which is essentially a fresh install) would i find any besides perhaps the kernel?
[13:56:37] <coolvibe> quasi: plop in a extra disk and whammo :)
[13:56:45] <Berny> 7% and time to go :-\
[13:56:57] <Berny> oh well let the update continue on the way home
[13:57:06] <quasi> coolvibe: that would take a very large hammer on some of the old t1s
[13:57:10] <jteo> ZZZki-worklap, download a copy of Oracle?
[13:57:12] <jteo> ;)
[13:57:20] <coolvibe> quasi: external SCSI enclosure?
[13:57:21] <nightswim> file /usr/bin/* | grep 64
[13:57:35] <ZZZki-worklap> is there a way to specifically compile for x86-64?
[13:57:39] <nightswim> on sparc it shows quite some 64 bit binaries
[13:57:52] <jteo> ZZZki-worklap, gcc -m64. I'm unsure about Sun CC.
[13:57:53] <nightswim> about 22 to be exact
[13:57:56] <quasi> coolvibe: yipes - like physically going to the serverroom? are you nuts? ;)
[13:58:13] <coolvibe> quasi: iscsi :)
[13:58:19] <ZZZki-worklap> nightswim, where, in /use/bin ?
[13:58:24] <ZZZki-worklap> s/e/r/
[13:58:27] <nightswim> yes
[13:58:30] <nightswim> according to grep -c
[13:58:36] <nightswim> (on sparc)
[13:58:55] <quasi> coolvibe: right, except then you'd have to upgrade to s10 first
[13:59:28] <coolvibe> quasi: oh yeah :P
[13:59:42] <ZZZki-worklap> oh there are 64 bit binaries in /usr/bin/amd64
[14:00:13] <jteo> i'm ashamed to admit i didn't realise that.
[14:01:33] * coolvibe hugs kstat
[14:02:17] <ZZZki-worklap> hmm
[14:02:28] <ZZZki-worklap> gcc -m64 -O2 foo.c -o foo
[14:02:40] <ZZZki-worklap> foo.c:1: sorry, unimplemented: 64-bit mode not compiled in
[14:02:45] <coolvibe> gcc? philistine
[14:02:50] <ZZZki-worklap> eh?
[14:02:51] <coolvibe> download sun studio
[14:02:58] <jmcp> coolvibe: ZZZki-worklap is doing that
[14:02:58] <ZZZki-worklap> i've got it
[14:02:58] <coolvibe> use a real compiler :)
[14:03:24] <ZZZki-worklap> is there any significant difference?
[14:03:35] * jmcp snorts
[14:03:36] <jmcp> hell yes
[14:03:54] <ZZZki-worklap> enlighten me?
[14:04:10] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: http://developers.sun.com
[14:04:30] <quasi> studio is loads faster than gcc and often creates faster binaries as well
[14:04:33] <jteo> zealot. ;)
[14:04:34] <jmcp> *much* more effective than reading stuff in an irc channel
[14:04:56] <coolvibe> and sun cc is more pedantic, resulting in you writing cleaner code
[14:05:21] <ZZZki-worklap> see, i could read thru all this marketing speak, or you could tell me more or less what you think, saving me a lot of time and giving you the opnion to run off at the mouth :)
[14:05:24] <jmcp> yeah, none of those "oh, if it works with gcc it must adhere to the Cxx standard" craptacular bits
[14:05:31] <ZZZki-worklap> i've noticed that it is more pedantic
[14:05:45] <coolvibe> ZZZki-worklap: I think the pedanticness is a good thing
[14:05:51] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: the optimiser in Studio is insanely good. Intel, HP and IBM all use it to benchmark their generated code against
[14:05:52] <ZZZki-worklap> agreed
[14:06:23] <coolvibe> I don't like the IDE though, but that's just a personal issue with me and NetBeans
[14:06:29] <coolvibe> vim suffices :D
[14:06:41] <jteo> emacs forever!
[14:06:59] <coolvibe> blegh
[14:07:01] <coolvibe> :D
[14:07:19] <coolvibe> emacs is a nice OS though, but it has a crappy modeless editor *duck*
[14:07:59] <ZZZki-worklap> hehe
[14:08:54] <coolvibe> http://home.hackerheaven.org/~coolvibe/cream-solaris.png <-- vim is nice :)
[14:09:13] <jteo> research.sun.com/minds/2006-0928
[14:09:19] <jteo> goodness bonwick looks so..fatherly
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[14:14:54] <coolvibe> nice article on the history of ZFS by the way
[14:15:03] <coolvibe> still reading it
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[14:46:05] <ZZZki-worklap> call me a skeptic
[14:46:12] <ZZZki-worklap> but i find this a bit unlikely:
[14:46:12] <ZZZki-worklap> http://blogs.sun.com/elowe/entry/zfs_saves_the_day_ta
[14:46:31] <ZZZki-worklap> i install a new filesystem, and all of a sudden there are all these data corruption errors, it turns out it was the filesystem saving the day
[14:46:36] <ZZZki-worklap> hoorah for zfs!
[14:46:50] <coolvibe> \o.
[14:47:03] <jteo> i'm biased towards zfs.
[14:47:04] <ZZZki-worklap> i know it's sun pr and all, but am i the only one who things that is much more likely a bug?
[14:47:08] <coolvibe> that's an old blog post
[14:47:12] <ZZZki-worklap> yes it is
[14:47:28] <coolvibe> ZZZki-worklap: disks can flake
[14:47:40] <ZZZki-worklap> coolvibe, oh, trust me, i know :)
[14:47:45] <richlowe> Not given the description of odd conflicts.
[14:47:46] <richlowe> but eh.
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[14:50:25] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: so did you read the actual description of what the true root cause was?
[14:50:38] <ZZZki-worklap> i did
[14:50:49] <ZZZki-worklap> by true, you mean, alleged :)
[14:51:08] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: so you just don't believe what Eric wrote in that blog entry?
[14:51:26] <ZZZki-worklap> i just find it highly unlikely
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[14:51:33] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: that's your choice
[14:51:38] <jmcp> a shame
[14:51:53] <jmcp> perhaps if you'd experienced a similar issue you might find it more believable
[14:51:56] <ZZZki-worklap> it doesn't strike you as a case of looking for what you want to see
[14:51:59] <ZZZki-worklap> ?
[14:52:13] <jmcp> uh .. .no
[14:52:49] <jmcp> particularly since I've many years of high-level support experience where I came across issues such as this after much tearing out of hair
[14:52:52] <jteo> there was a recent post on zfs-discuss where someone discovered his FC controller was flaky
[14:52:53] <richlowe> I'm trying to figure out failures in zfs that would lead to data being written that didn't match it's (just computed) checksum.
[14:52:58] <ZZZki-worklap> i dunno, s/solaris/windows nt/ and s/vfat/ntfs/ and people would read that and laugh
[14:53:00] <richlowe> rather than, say, bogus data with a valid sum.
[14:53:16] <jteo> that someone was not Sun internal.
[14:53:28] <jmcp> jteo: that fellow's problem is (a) ifp card (qlc2100) and (b) a3500fc
[14:53:30] <jmcp> 'nuff said!
[14:53:39] <jmcp> ZZZki-worklap: but that
[14:53:52] <jmcp> that's kinda the point. It's *not* windows nt/xp, and it's *not* ntfs.
[14:54:13] <richlowe> actually, even if it were not a zfs issue, that failure mode seems less likely than the vast majority of others.
[14:54:25] <jmcp> richlowe:
[14:54:30] <richlowe> I think the window between checksum calculation and write is rather small.
[14:54:34] <richlowe> you'd have to frag the data in that window.
[14:54:44] <jmcp> richlowe: true, but when you've established beyond doubt that it is in fact the most likely candidate ....
[14:55:06] <jmcp> there are a number of other issues with that particular class of hw that he was using. I came across one myself
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[14:59:34] <richlowe> It's also fairly illuminating (though not *entirely* applicable), to look at how ztest abuses things.
[14:59:37] <razrX> i'm about to luupgrade from my current snv_52 BE to snv_53 BE. i've mounted the snv_53 ISO thru lofiadm(1M). should i just pkgrm the currently installed SUNWlu* packages and pkgadd -d the newer revisions of SUNWlu from the snv_53 image correct?
[15:00:09] <razrX> before running the luupgrade command?
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[15:00:29] <richlowe> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/ztest/ztest.c#29
[15:00:39] <Doc> razrx: yes
[15:00:46] <razrX> Doc: ty
[15:00:55] * jmcp sleeps
[15:01:14] <Doc> it's very possible they are the same thing, but it's worth doing it anyway in case they arent...
[15:01:23] <razrX> they're not
[15:02:33] <razrX> REV=2006.11.03.09.56 from snv_52 vs REV=2006.11.17.14.42 for SUNWlucfg for example
[15:02:41] <razrX> for snv_53
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[15:08:32] <razrX> isn't there a way to specify the SUNWlu* packages from the mounted ISO image directly instead of doing: `pkgadd -d /path/to/mounted/snv_53/image/Solaris_11/Product` and then choosing the names of the packages i want to pkgadd?
[15:09:15] <richlowe> pkgadd -d /patch/to/iso/Solaris_11/Product SUNWlur SUNWluu SUNWlucfg
[15:09:22] <razrX> doh
[15:09:31] <richlowe> s/tch/th/
[15:09:35] <razrX> must be half asleep stil
[15:09:53] <razrX> still even
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[15:19:47] <razrX> Doc: you still around?
[15:21:16] <razrX> i was able to pkgadd SUNWlu* from the mounted image but when i try: luupgrade -u -n snv_53 -s /mnt/Solaris_11 i get the error: ERROR: The media is not recognized installation media </mnt/Solaris_11>
[15:22:12] <razrX> the image is mounted on /mnt
[15:22:29] <razrX> nevermind
[15:22:58] <razrX> since it is mounted on /mnt that is the os image path i shoud use
[15:23:03] <razrX> luupgrade is running now
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[15:38:02] <sickness> someone has any newer and maybe more readable news on honeycomb than this? http://blogs.sun.com/nob/entry/stk5800%E3%80%80%E4%BF%A1%E9%A0%BC%E6%80%A7
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[16:32:18] <sickness> someone has any newer and maybe more readable news on honeycomb than this? http://blogs.sun.com/nob/entry/stk5800%E3%80%80%E4%BF%A1%E9%A0%BC%E6%80%A7
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[17:50:11] <AbeFroman> are recent builds of Xorg debug builds or something?
[17:50:16] <AbeFroman> seems like they've slowed way down
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[17:59:55] <hile_> hey Gman
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[18:00:02] <Gman> hi hile_
[18:00:15] <hile_> early morning for you, no?
[18:00:20] <steve1> hey glynn
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[18:01:52] <Gman> hile_, i'm in ireland now for the month
[18:02:07] <Gman> hi stevel-
[18:02:35] <Gman> though nicely coordinated a 24 hour flight over with some bug
[18:02:50] <hile_> ah
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[18:06:56] <sommerfeld> Gman: oops.  24 hours of airplane+airport air probably didn't help much..
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[18:08:49] <Gman> no indeed, a nice rash has now developed on my body since this morning ;)
[18:09:01] <hile_> ugh
[18:09:46] <Gman> haw haw -
[18:09:48] <Gman> I am pleased to announce a milestone in the evolution of Sun's iWork program -- the transition of "iWork" to "Open Work," internally.
[18:10:01] <Gman> hilarious
[18:10:20] <hile_> bwhaha
[18:10:31] <hile_> wouldn't apple be a bit pissed that you're calling it iWork?
[18:10:53] <Gman> yeah, that's probably the milestone - ignoring a lawsuit ;)
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[18:11:52] <stevel-> "Open" is our new "Java"
[18:12:02] <stevel-> everything is now going to be prefixed with "Open"
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[18:14:04] <sommerfeld> iwork is not a product or service offered to the general public
[18:14:16] <Cyrille> sun java open work system... that's got a nice ring to it ;-)
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[18:18:42] <alanc> stevel-: "Open" was the hot buzzword of the 80's and early 90's, so we've just gone full circle
[18:18:43] <stevel-> okay, traffic should have died down now. i think i'll head into the office
[18:18:52] <stevel-> alanc: we're going retro ;-)
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[18:19:00] <alanc> "Open Systems" "Open Group", "OpenWindows", "OpenLook"
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[18:27:40] <jafari> hello all, what command can i use to see how much zone instances i have running on my zone host?
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[18:30:35] <tomww>  zoneadm list -cv
[18:30:46] <tomww> does this what you want?
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[18:57:21] <jafari> tomww , yes thats what i was exaclty looking for thank you
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[19:08:00] <alanc> up early for ARC?
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[19:08:52] <alanc> looks like just fasttracks today from the agenda
[19:09:01] <brandini> hello
[19:09:03] <Tpenta> yup and arc business
[19:09:38] <alanc> I've got a list of fasttracks on my whiteboard that I need to file soon...
[19:09:55] <alanc> though most will probably go LSARC except for the Xorg 7.2 server case
[19:10:31] <Tpenta> so now you've done your dtrace stuff, are you pushing teh firefox folks re brendan's provider
[19:10:34] <Tpenta> ?
[19:11:03] <alanc> john rice said they had people working on it
[19:11:34] <alanc> so I'll wait and see for a bit before pushing again
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[19:12:17] <Tpenta> :-D
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[19:19:38] <elektronkind> I so hate ufs acls
[19:22:32] <brandini> :)
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[19:24:21] <elektronkind> they make my brain hurt. not much in this world makes my brain hurt. that's saying a lot.
[19:27:22] <dwc-> ufs acls are rather simple
[19:27:47] <dwc-> they're like unix permissions, but there's just more than one set
[19:31:19] <Stric> elektronkind: try macosx acls.. they're "kinda" like zfs/ntfs/nfsv4 acls.. but with some twists..
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[19:50:05] <brandini> I am not cut out to be a programmer
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[19:52:51] <hile_> sure you can
[19:55:35] <brandini> I'm working on an openbsd port of zfs and I cannot traverse the build process :)
[19:57:40] <Stric> brandini: you talked to the zfs-freebsd people?
[19:57:54] <brandini> nope
[19:58:07] <brandini> they don't respond to my emails :)
[19:59:02] <brandini> I've built theirs on freebsd and it seems ok but when I started hacking the source it was a lot of "lets just make this compile" duct tape
[20:00:02] <Stric> brandini: you mean solutions similar to http://tomas.ogren.pp.se/gallery/gaffastolpe ?
[20:00:51] <brandini> yes!
[20:01:45] <Stric> "It seems to stay put, let's call it a day.."
[20:03:28] <brandini> yeah, I'm doing this kinda as a pet project and I'm more interested in correctness than anything
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[20:13:30] <gisburn> uhhh... linda is going to skin me alive...
[20:13:31] <gisburn> ;-(
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[20:14:11] <sommerfeld> Stric: is "gaffastolpe" swedish for Gaffer's Tape ?
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[20:15:22] 
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[20:15:26] <Stric> combination of that tape and stolpe=pole/post, where lyktstolpe is lamppost
[20:15:32] <_william_> hi all
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[20:15:55] <sommerfeld> duct tape and gaffer's tape are actually quite different.
[20:16:55] <rydis> sommerfeld: Yes, but the terms are often used interchangably, anyway.
[20:16:55] <sommerfeld> duct tape is cheaper, generally greyish-silver, plastic body, permanent-ish adhesive.  gaffer's tape is generally flat black, cloth, temporary/low residue adhesive for temporarily securing cables,, etc.
[20:17:57] <Stric> Ive seen all mixes of those attributes to under the same name..
[20:18:19] <Stric> or rather.. names..
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[20:34:49] <jbk> always fun when you find a server no one remembers :)
[20:37:00] <alanc> gisburn: was this the bug you were looking for yesterday?   CR 6501520 Created P3 opensolaris/triage-queue Messages from |gai_strerror()| are not localised
[20:37:52] <alanc> btw, chickenmonster?
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[20:46:57] <gisburn> alanc: yes
[20:47:09] <gisburn> alanc: chickenmonster is one of the machines here.
[20:47:22] <Error_404> *yawn* morning
[20:47:35] <alanc> came in to the triage queue about an hour ago with another bug - don't know what the delay was
[20:48:49] <stevel> alanc: it could have been in the bbm pipeline when we had to change from kritter->bjc
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[20:49:14] <Error_404> hey, neat... an ON build that actually worked
[20:49:14] <alanc> oh yeah, guess her account got disabled...
[20:49:30] <stevel> alanc: yeah, we had to update all the stuff to go file as bjc instead
[20:50:00] <alanc> that's an easy bug to fix - just tell bonnie she can never leave 8-)
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[20:52:04] <stevel> we'd fall apart if she did :)
[21:01:05] <twincest> i have an ELF module with an absolute text address of 0x1100000.  how do i convince gdb to let me disassemble a particular address?
[21:04:16] <quasi> twincest: switch to mdb? ;)
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[21:05:22] <gisburn> is there any example of a tool in /usr/ which has a completely private API ?
[21:05:25] <twincest> quasi: linux :-(
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[21:05:52] <twincest> oh well, objdump works
[21:06:25] <quasi> twincest: lucky you ;)
[21:07:06] <twincest> although having to use the fiasco kernel debugging, i'm starting to appreciated how nice mdb really is
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[21:08:35] <quasi> mdb might not be the most intuitive thing in the world, but it is well worth it
[21:09:11] <twincest> wonder how hard it'd be to port to a new OS
[21:09:14] <Burana> How can I prevent an additional network interface to come up automatically in a zone during zoneboot?
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[21:11:07] <quasi> Burana: disable the network service
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[21:18:30] <Burana> Doesn't it stop all interfaces? I want to take only one interface down
[21:19:29] <quasi> yes, it would stop all of them
[21:22:35] <Burana> Is there an easy way to take the interface down, or do I have to write a smf service inside the zone to take down the interface? Doesn't look like an elegant way to do.
[21:23:51] <quasi> if you're booting anyway, you could just zonecfg to get rid of it
[21:24:45] <Burana> I have this manual "failover-cluster", where an service ip address is shared between two zones on different nodes. The ip address should be preconfigured, but not active, when the zone is booted.
[21:25:54] <quasi> I think you can do that by hacking /etc/hostname.interface
[21:27:00] <quasi> http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~doug/howtos/multipathing.html
[21:28:24] <Burana> Of course...! why didn't you tell me earlier :-)
[21:29:22] <quasi> first you had to tell me what you wanted to do ;)
[21:29:56] <Burana> Now the only thing missing is a service that checks if the Ip address is already in use somewhere and if not to enable the interface.
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[21:33:19] <quasi> that should be easy enough
[21:38:26] <Burana> I had to write a manifest to pre-plumb the interface in the global-zone, as this interface is only used in the local-zone
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[21:55:05] <brandini> zfs is so dead sexy
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[21:56:02] <elektronkind> brandini: I still can't get it to wear a thong, though :/
[21:59:12] <brandini> I like it better necked
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[21:59:17] <brandini> ;)
[21:59:33] <brandini> I'm playing around with the version in freebsd
[21:59:43] <brandini> I have a feeling I'm not quite capable of porting it to openbsd
[21:59:54] <Error_404> zfs is in openbsd?
[22:00:05] <brandini> I was working on that for a while
[22:00:11] <Error_404> good job theo... wow... that was fast
[22:01:46] <brandini> Error_404: that sounds awfully bitter :)
[22:01:55] <dlg> pwned
[22:02:07] <Error_404> not at all actually
[22:02:23] <brandini> dlg: what's been going on man
[22:02:33] <dlg> not much
[22:03:19] <brandini> I got a little work done on zfs over the past week but I gave up today with a bad headache
[22:03:27] <dlg> heh
[22:04:20] <brandini> I am not at all cut out to be a programmer
[22:04:50] <dlg> im sure i told you it would hurt
[22:05:02] <brandini> :)
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[22:06:13] <springfield> hi all, how common is libxml on solaris machines these days?
[22:06:30] <brandini> I did read a bunch of good information from MIT's open course ware about writing and reading to disks though :)
[22:07:30] <Auralis> springfield: libxml is part of the jds desktop of solaris since solaris 9, however it will be a old version
[22:07:31] <quasi> springfield: pretty common on s10
[22:08:02] <springfield> rightio, ta
[22:08:38] <sommerfeld> in s10, there's a "libxml2.so" which provides critical system infrastructure (SMF depends on it)
[22:09:26] <springfield> ahhhh, it's MIT too
[22:09:47] <hile_> hey Auralis
[22:10:09] <Auralis> alo
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[23:03:01] <jmcp> morning all
[23:04:02] <jbk> hello
[23:05:11] <jbk> ok.. can someone tell me if the getaddrinfo(3SOCKET) man page on solaris 10 says anywhere what it returns on success?? I see the error values, but I can't find anything that explicity says what it returns on success (like most manpages), and I'm not sure if I just missed it
[23:05:37] <jbk> i will assume 0
[23:06:11] <springfield> on linux: "getaddrinfo(3)  returns  0 if it succeeds"
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[23:07:26] <dj2> jbk returns 0 if successful
[23:07:46] <dj2> last paragraph page 5
[23:08:31] <springfield> it's a posix call and posix says returns 0 on success
[23:09:14] <jbk> ahh now i see it....
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[23:13:35] <twincest> jmcp: any idea how hard it'd be to port mdb to another OS?
[23:14:10] <jmcp> no idea
[23:14:31] <jmcp> one of the central problems is that it has very intimate knowledge of the Solaris kernel
[23:14:58] <movement> almost entirely in modules though
[23:15:05] <movement> and things like libproc
[23:15:30] <movement> so it's really mostly about porting libproc for mdb on userspace
[23:15:47] * jmcp mutters about the x86/x64 disassembler .....
[23:16:17] <movement> for kernels, you'd need libkvm and several changes to mdb_kvm.c
[23:16:33] <movement> a libumem port exists already
[23:16:42] <jmcp> heh .. might be easier to start with the principles behind it, and then write from scratch
[23:16:48] * jmcp feels pessimistic this morning
[23:17:29] <movement> nah.
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[23:26:36] <twincest> well, i don't have a userland, i just want the kernel bit
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