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[00:01:11] <richlowe> jmcp, Tpenta, etc.
[00:01:20] <jengelh> no, jmcp
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[00:03:30] <_william_> good night
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[00:17:36] <trygvis> will the x4xxx series ever come out with a sata interfaces?
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[00:23:11] <ada> 'night all
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[00:37:49] <Error_404> trygvis: doesn't x4*** come with SAS?
[00:38:21] <Error_404> SAS is a compatible superset of SATA... you can throw sata drives in it if you want
[00:38:35] <Auralis> isn't the x4100 sata?
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[00:40:02] <gisburn> Tpenta: ping!
[00:40:11] <Tpenta> ACK
[00:40:21] <gisburn> Tpenta: please watch the bug queue...
[00:40:35] <gisburn> Tpenta: anything new from me ?
[00:41:48] <gisburn> e.g. gai_strerror()-related ?
[00:43:04] * gisburn throws stones at the bugdatabase
[00:43:43] <Tpenta> what's the synopsis?
[00:44:06] <gisburn> aghhhhrrr
[00:44:07] <richlowe> it's not the databases fault.
[00:44:15] <richlowe> it's the stupid means of interaction.
[00:44:25] <richlowe> as it stands, you're probably stuck waiting on Linda getting to work.
[00:44:28] <gisburn> some ######### did some javascript to wipe the input fields on back
[00:44:29] <richlowe> unless tpenta can find it first.
[00:44:50] <Tpenta> stuff should go automatically into the triage queue without intervention
[00:44:55] <richlowe> Tpenta: it does.
[00:45:01] <richlowe> (unless bt2 croaks)
[00:45:12] <richlowe> Tpenta: the notification back to us is done by hand, by linda (she forwards the notification she gets)
[00:45:21] <Tpenta> when did you log it roland?
[00:45:23] <richlowe> my current record wait-time is 5 days from filing to real notification.
[00:45:30] <gisburn> yeah
[00:45:33] <gisburn> this sucks
[00:45:51] <gisburn> I don't know whether the bug is "there" or not.
[00:45:58] <richlowe> Tpenta: can you search on hook fields?
[00:46:11] <richlowe> Tpenta: if so, Roland's email should be in hook6, and the CR should be in opensolaris/triage-queue
[00:46:20] <gisburn> Tpenta: it has gai_strerror in the summary
[00:46:23] <Tpenta> not simply in the normal client, I'd have to look at some of the other stuff for that
[00:46:48] <Tpenta> I'm doing a search on the triage queue ordered by descending bugid
[00:47:50] <gisburn> Tpenta: just curious: Is SCTP support in OS/Net experimental or is this a supported feature ?
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[00:48:09] <Tpenta> it's in 10 it's supported
[00:48:15] <gisburn> oh oh
[00:48:36] <gisburn> Tpenta: did anyone wrote test applications yet ?
[00:48:46] <Tpenta> I have not received a notification into the triage queue with that string in the synopsis
[00:49:14] <Tpenta> no idea
[00:49:31] <gisburn> Tpenta: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ksh93-integration-discuss/2006-December/001944.html ... this is the TIP of an iceberg.
[00:50:36] <gisburn> I've hit nscd crashes, two kernel panics and the things in the email... just by playing around with SCTP+IPv6
[00:51:19] <Tpenta> The last bug i see from you was CR 6488593 Created P4 opensolaris/triage-queue RFE: /etc/profile should set TMPDIR to /tmp/$LOGNAME/
[00:51:32] <gisburn> yeah
[00:52:52] <richlowe> Did you file bugs for the nscd crashes and panics, too?
[00:53:34] <Tpenta> i do not sene ay eerlvant bugs with the keywords getservbyname and sctp
[00:54:18] <gisburn>  d2d3568b strlen   (74617473, d1ea90ac, 401) + b
[00:54:20] <gisburn>  d2f8ab19 __ns_samename (d1ea9d58, 74617473) + 49
[00:54:21] <gisburn>  d2f77e9a gethostbyname2_p (d1ea9d58, 1a, 80da054) + 7a
[00:54:23] <gisburn>  d2f77d14 res_gethostbyname2 (d1ea9d58, 1a) + 24
[00:54:36] <Tpenta> roland for goodness sake use something like pastebin.ca
[00:54:59] <richlowe> bugs.opensolaris.org :)
[00:55:07] <richlowe> (if it's a bug, it's a bug, may as well paste it there and wait it out...)
[00:55:29] <gisburn> Tpenta: that were five lines... ;-(
[00:55:32] * gisburn hides...
[00:55:39] <Tpenta> i thought there was mroe coming ;)
[00:55:45] <gisburn> no.
[00:55:56] <gisburn> anything > five lines goes elsewhere
[00:56:01] <Tpenta> :)
[00:56:02] <richlowe> Yeah, when I see lwp ID's in pstack output, I expect much, much more too :)
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[00:56:30] <gisburn> richlowe: I am clever enougth to filter all the innocent and waiting threads.
[00:57:38] * gisburn wishes he would be PAID to fix those bugs.
[00:58:08] <gisburn> there is so much junk in the tree... it's ten lifetimes to clean that up... ;-(
[01:03:05] <gisburn> maybe even more
[01:03:15] <gisburn> Tpenta: still no new bug ?
[01:03:34] <Tpenta> roland, I have other things to do in my mail than continuously watch the traige queue ;)
[01:04:20] * gisburn would just write a one-liner to watch the queue and beep if something new happens.
[01:04:35] <Tpenta> nothing new
[01:11:57] <gisburn> . . .
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[01:18:34] * gisburn moves the testcase to his SVN tree... just for the case...
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[01:46:56] <Tpenta> Oh gisburn, ...
[01:47:09] <gisburn> ?!
[01:47:16] <Tpenta> it's not there yet :-D
[01:47:17] <Tpenta> sorry, couldnt resist
[01:47:17] <gisburn> what is wrong ?
[01:47:24] <gisburn> #######
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[02:02:02] <gisburn> Tpenta: is it there ?
[02:04:50] <Tpenta> NO
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[02:10:51] <Tpenta> didnty mean the caps
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[02:15:05] <gisburn> Tpenta: too late
[02:15:18] * gisburn is already hanging on a tree...
[02:15:34] <Tpenta> binary? sorted? ...
[02:16:16] <gisburn> b*
[02:16:49] <jmcp> avl? red-black?
[02:17:06] <gisburn> other topic...
[02:17:28] <gisburn> ... can getaddrinfo() be used for DECnet support ?
[02:18:59] <jmcp> gisburn: is it mentioned in TFM ?
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[02:19:17] <gisburn> TFM=?
[02:19:24] <gisburn> The F*cking Manual ?
[02:19:49] <jmcp> or "The Fine Manual" or even "The Flamin' Manual"
[02:20:01] <jengelh> hey jmcp , what's the euphemism for working at home?
[02:20:06] <jmcp> wfh
[02:20:15] <jengelh> ah m.kay
[02:20:21] <jmcp> gisburn: and I don't see DECnet mentioned in tfm entry for getaddrinfo() so it's probably not appropriate
[02:20:25] <jengelh> sounds a bit obvious tho
[02:20:32] <jmcp> jengelh: you wanted something funky ?
[02:20:33] <jmcp> sorry :|
[02:20:42] <jengelh> jmcp: no, just the regular business term
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[02:21:33] <jmcp> jengelh: phew
[02:21:48] <jengelh> wfh seems to be the accepted one
[02:21:52] <jmcp> yup
[02:22:38] <jbk> or do you mean telecommuting?
[02:22:47] <jengelh> yeah wiki redirects
[02:22:58] <jmcp> jbk: nope, that's so 1990s
[02:29:40] <Plaidrab> Is it an exercise in futility to try and get qt3.3 to build?
[02:34:10] <Auralis> no
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[02:36:17] * gisburn feels extremly <NOTE: This word was filtered by ChildGuard(TM)> that noone provided the IPv6 code for dtksh
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[02:37:01] <Tpenta> evening steve
[02:37:08] <stevel> g'evning
[02:37:15] <stevel> actually bad evening
[02:37:21] <stevel> having major issues with grommit :(
[02:37:28] <jmcp> hi stevel
[02:37:46] <stevel> hey jmcp
[02:37:49] <gisburn> Hi stevel! :-)
[02:37:50] <Doc> feed him some more cheese
[02:38:08] * steleman sighs
[02:38:21] <jmcp> stevel: I read Geoff Arnold's blog about the DoS ... I guess it's continuing, right?
[02:38:38] <richlowe> I blame the giant robotic dog.
[02:38:57] <gisburn> jmcp: URL for the blog ?
[02:39:04] <jmcp> www.geoffarnold.com
[02:39:48] <gisburn> jmcp: erm
[02:39:54] <gisburn> jmcp: "connection refused"
[02:40:12] <jmcp> that's kinda the problem, yes
[02:40:38] <gisburn> jmcp: how did you read it ?
[02:40:39] <jmcp> http://geoffarnold.com/?p=1259, via google reader
[02:41:39] <jmcp> .... via google reader ....
[02:41:52] <jmcp> oh, and I used this neat thing from google, called "google reader" too
[02:42:42] <jmcp> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/NpyPuo25.html
[02:43:53] <stevel> jmcp: no, i moved to a new datacentre today, so that's not the issue
[02:44:01] <stevel> i'm having two issues
[02:44:06] <stevel> 1) apache is segfaulting continuously
[02:44:13] <jmcp> urgle
[02:44:22] <stevel> 2) none of my zones boot
[02:44:25] <jmcp> crap
[02:44:33] <stevel> thanks to 122663-06
[02:44:39] <jmcp> and if they don't boot, then they won't scoot, either
[02:45:31] <jengelh> Yeah yeah yeah yeah 8)
[02:45:56] * jmcp chuckles
[02:47:01] <gisburn> stevel: can't you handle the zones like diskless clients and apply patches while the zone is offline ?
[02:47:10] <stevel> gisburn: can't apply patches because the zones won't boot
[02:47:17] <gisburn> erm
[02:47:17] <stevel> can't remove patches because the zones won't boot either
[02:47:36] <stevel> i'm trying to debug the apache problem first
[02:47:44] <stevel> but i can't figure out if/where apache is dumping core
[02:48:01] <gisburn> stevel: correct me if I am wrong. When I have a diskless client I can apply and remove patches from the files stored on the server from which the diskless client boots from ?
[02:48:20] <stevel> i've never played with diskless clients, so i don't know
[02:52:46] <stevel> anyone have experience debugging apache2?
[02:52:58] * steleman has
[02:53:08] <jmcp> time for lunch
[02:54:33] <stevel> steleman: http://pastebin.ca/266374
[02:54:40] <stevel> any idea where to start debugging that?
[02:54:46] <steleman> k hang on lemme read it
[02:55:38] <steleman> this is apache2 with mpm_worker
[02:55:45] <steleman> or mpm_prefork ?
[02:55:51] <stevel> i'm not sure
[02:55:52] <stevel> how do i know?
[02:56:07] <stevel> /usr/apache2/bin/httpd -V says:
[02:56:12] <stevel>  -D APACHE_MPM_DIR="server/mpm/prefork"
[02:56:15] <steleman> ok
[02:56:17] <stevel> (this is the standard S10 apache2)
[02:56:18] <steleman> it's prefoork
[02:56:29] <steleman> oh ok this is the vanilla apache2
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[02:57:03] <stevel> what's weird is some that mod_rewrite apparently is working okay
[02:57:10] <stevel> it's just anything where it has to serve content
[02:58:59] <steleman> does that file exist ?
[02:59:04] <stevel> nope
[02:59:10] <stevel> but it also does the same segfault for files that exist
[02:59:19] <steleman> ohhh
[03:01:31] <steleman> i wonder if this isn't related to the mmap'ed mutex problems
[03:04:18] <stevel> ??
[03:05:23] <steleman> stevel: im working on apache2.2.3 (which doenst work on sparc at all) and i found some problems with some mmap'ed mutexes in libapr
[03:05:36] <steleman> and the symptoms are very similar to what you are seeing now
[03:05:45] <stevel> ugh. any idea for a workaround
[03:05:47] <stevel> ?
[03:05:58] <steleman> im testing the workaround(s) as we speak
[03:06:07] <steleman> but not for apache2
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[03:06:42] <stevel> urgh urgh urgh
[03:07:02] <steleman> yeah
[03:07:07] <stevel> and who the hell let 122663-06 out the door
[03:07:11] <stevel> seems like i'm in good company
[03:07:18] <stevel> http://forum.sun.com/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=109686
[03:07:27] <steleman> what does 122663-06 do ?
[03:07:32] <stevel> breaks zones from booting
[03:07:33] <steleman> (besides breaking apache)
[03:07:35] <stevel> :-P
[03:07:35] <richlowe> break shit, apparently :)
[03:07:42] <steleman> ohh wonderful
[03:07:53] <stevel> yeah, that was lovely
[03:08:05] <steleman> so now you can only have the global zone ?
[03:09:17] <stevel> yup
[03:09:22] <stevel> grommit is not in very good shape
[03:09:27] <stevel> no local zones, and a global zone with a broken apache
[03:09:30] <stevel> yay for sun update connection
[03:09:34] <steleman> phuck.
[03:10:09] <richlowe> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6488656
[03:10:12] <steleman> this reminds me of a former schoolmate of mine who was asked to write a thread safe cache. he wrote it, with the explicit restriction that it is thread safe for only 1 thread.
[03:10:17] <richlowe> has an icky, yet seemingly more salvagable workaround.
[03:11:41] <stevel> yeah, i grabbed the undo.Z and was able to pull libzonecfg.so.1 out of that
[03:11:52] <stevel> since "remove the local zones" (IMHO) is not a workaround
[03:12:04] <richlowe> Yeah, I was meaning #2
[03:12:10] <stevel> or rather it is, but one that would piss dp and gisburn, and all my other zone-admins off :)
[03:12:19] <stevel> so that fixes that
[03:12:24] <richlowe> direct them to the person responsible for the patch.
[03:12:25] <stevel> but apache2 still segfaults like crazy
[03:12:32] <richlowe> I think that actually more fun than a more tidy fix :)
[03:12:39] <jbk> haha
[03:12:50] <stevel> though here's the funny thing
[03:13:02] <stevel> why does apache2 serve the zone web pages okay, but not the global zone ones?
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[03:13:09] <stevel> http://cr.grommit.com vs. http://grommit.com
[03:13:18] <stevel> they're using the same apache2 binary
[03:13:25] <stevel> is it my config?
[03:13:36] <jbk> are there any core files?
[03:13:42] <stevel> jbk: if there are, i have no idea where they are
[03:13:57] <jbk> hmm..
[03:14:39] <jbk> could do a dtrace script that intercepts and segfaults, pauses the process, runs gcore, the resumes
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[03:14:47] <jbk> so you can get one where you know it's location..
[03:14:53] <stevel> wow, heinously overkill - but yeah
[03:14:56] <jbk> i did that to diagnose an issue with sudo
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[03:15:11] <jbk> because they make it impossible to otherwise diagnose the issue
[03:15:25] <jbk> it's actually only like 5 lines (formatted nicely)
[03:16:03] <jbk> (in the case of sudo, it was actually an issue with libldap segfaulting when using ssl)
[03:16:27] <jbk> nice way to get acquainted with dtrace though :)
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[03:19:16] <richlowe> stevel, steleman: 6492784
[03:19:55] <steleman> richlowe wut's that
[03:20:01] <stevel> !!!!#)(@#()%*@#%
[03:20:06] <stevel> yup, i'm using the php module
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[03:20:14] <stevel> dp isn't, which is probably why cr's apache2 works
[03:20:39] <stevel> of course, i'm running s10
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[03:21:00] * stevel wonders if 6373222 made it's way into a patch already
[03:21:29] <richlowe> looks to have made it to 10u3, at least.
[03:22:07] <stevel> yup. 120544-06
[03:22:10] <stevel> bugger
[03:22:20] <stevel> let's see if that was one of the patches update connection installed for me
[03:22:37] <stevel> yup it did
[03:22:48] <stevel> augh
[03:22:49] <stevel> fucking patches
[03:25:25] <sahafeez> just ran into the woz in san jose airport on the way home to san diego. i so need to move back to san jose.
[03:26:24] <stevel> thanks rich for pointing me at both of those bugs
[03:27:23] <jbk> i don't see how people can afford to live around there :)
[03:28:35] <sahafeez> i used to but moved back to san diego after the .bomb.
[03:28:42] * stevel loves SD
[03:29:07] <jbk> san diego is nice, but also expensive :)
[03:30:23] <sahafeez> yes. it is is. 450k for medium family home
[03:31:04] <g4lt-mordant> yes, but there's mission beach: literally ten blocks of pubs in a row
[03:31:07] <jbk> i don't know how people can swing that without being in an enormous amount of debt
[03:31:09] <sahafeez> san jose is a bit more but they pay better in san jose. salaries are low in san diego
[03:31:47] <stevel> richlowe: bingo, that was it. my mod_php is "bad" in that it needs to be recompiled
[03:31:52] <stevel> 'cept i installed it from CCD
[03:32:00] <sahafeez> g4lt: Britannia Arms on De Azna in Cupertino 2 miles down from Apple is a nice place.
[03:32:17] <stevel> sahafeez: the brit is nice...but can't quite compare to mission beach
[03:32:26] <stevel> the brit is a great place to go watch the CL final
[03:32:31] <g4lt-mordant> sahafeez, yes, but I don't have four years of "mnemories" there from the USN, now do I? ;P
[03:32:33] <stevel> mission beach is a great place to just get trashed cheaply
[03:32:52] <sahafeez> yah. spent all my pre-ipo nights there. the waitress new everyones drink and IPO date ;)
[03:33:03] <jbk> hahaha
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[03:34:03] <sahafeez> haha. no-memory = to much to drink.
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[03:42:22] <stevel> bollocks
[03:42:33] <stevel> the SFWmphp i grabbed from the u3 CCD is only for apache1
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[04:23:55] <boyd> Morning, all from Sunny Perth
[04:24:00] <boyd> Oh, Afternoon
[04:25:57] <jmcp> hi boyd
[04:28:31] <Tpenta> enjoying daylight savings there this week boyd?
[04:29:04] <Plaidrab> I must say I am terribly impressed with how cleanly the QT3.3 code is compiling
[04:29:23] <twincest> that's because Qt does not use any C++ features except those that existed in 1985
[04:29:50] <jengelh> what has come after that?
[04:29:57] <nachox> http://whacked.net/what_is_opensolaris seems to be down
[04:30:00] <twincest> templates, for one
[04:30:12] <Auralis> qt is not the problem, the problem comes when you have apps that don't compile with the compiler you used for qt
[04:30:13] <richlowe> nachox: scroll up, stevel's having software issues.
[04:30:20] <jengelh> i rarely need templates in C++, although i sometimes wished they existed in C
[04:30:47] <nachox> i have nothing to scroll up to, i just joined :P
[04:31:06] <twincest> well, templates are fairly widely used in modern C++ design.  the standard library has far more templates than instances of inheritance, for example
[04:31:21] <jengelh> STL is just a big bloat because it's all sadly inlined.
[04:31:54] <twincest> no reason it has to be inlined
[04:32:24] <jengelh> yeah if the linker is smart enough to find the instantiations in libstdc++.so
[04:32:35] <twincest> there aren't any in libstdc++
[04:32:51] <twincest> the instantiations are added to every object file and the linker removes duplicates at the end
[04:32:53] <twincest> (COMDAT)
[04:33:08] <jengelh> still, that copies STL into every executable
[04:33:11] <twincest> you get larger object files but no difference in the binary
[04:33:25] <twincest> well that's true of all templates, not just the stl
[04:33:31] <stevel> well i got my zones back up, so cr.grommit.com should be working again
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[04:42:24] <is> join #openssh
[04:42:38] <jengelh> no.
[04:42:55] <Plaidrab> Don't wanna
[04:42:57] <Plaidrab> Like it here
[04:43:35] <Plaidrab> Good lord this is taking forever to build
[04:47:44] *** is is now known as help
[04:50:22] <boyd> Tpenta: Yeah, but they're all very confused over here... it's kinda quaint :)
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[04:51:33] <stevel> ugh. okay, apache is back up now too
[04:51:43] <stevel> fucking patches killed my whole afternoon/evening
[04:51:44] <stevel> sigh
[04:51:48] * stevel is off to go get drunk
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[05:19:27] <timelyx> hrm, still no snv53 :(
[05:20:38] <boyd> Tell me about it :(
[05:21:10] <boyd> I'm now thinking of waiting will b54, since Glenn Brunette says that the TJDS doesn't go in until then
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[05:23:28] <nachox> that tjds will still be 2.6 based right?
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[05:45:13] <boyd> nachox: No, 2.16 I believe
[05:45:28] <boyd> But the one in s10 11/06 will be 2.6 baesd
[05:45:38] <dclarke> where is 11/06 ?
[05:45:41] <dclarke> seen it ?
[05:45:58] <boyd> Have you lost it? Well where did you see it last?
[05:45:58] <twincest> i thought TJDS was merged with 2.16 in b52
[05:46:20] <nachox> boyd: hehe
[05:47:42] <boyd> twincest: I thought b53, but Glenn seems to say otherwise: (oops, Faden, not Brunette): http://blogs.sun.com/gfaden/entry/comparing_selinux_with_solaris_trusted  last 2 paras
[05:47:59] <dclarke> The product you requested is not available at this time.
[05:48:00] <dclarke>   	warning:  	Sol10-U3-x86-DVD-G-F
[05:48:26] <dclarke> The product you requested is not available at this time.
[05:48:27] <dclarke>   	warning:  	Sol10-U3-x86-G-F
[05:48:32] <dclarke> bah ..
[05:48:47] <boyd> dclarke: did you really think that would work?
[05:49:06] <dclarke> yes ..
[05:49:09] <dclarke> it has in the past
[05:49:19] <boyd> Too early then, perhaps
[05:49:40] <dclarke> I think that it generally happens on a thurdsay
[05:49:41] <Plaidrab> Oooh. nearly out?
[05:49:53] <dclarke> this thursday ..
[05:49:56] <dclarke> or .. the next
[05:50:01] <dclarke> or .. the next after that
[05:50:09] <dclarke> maybe 11/06 will be 01/07
[05:50:12] <dclarke> dunno
[05:50:36] <Plaidrab> Wow. QT is still building.
[05:50:58] <twincest> what are you building it on?  i don't remember it taking that long forme
[05:51:45] <Plaidrab> U5
[05:52:00] <twincest> oh
[05:52:02] <Plaidrab> It's chugging along.
[05:52:05] <twincest> figures ;-)
[05:52:37] <Plaidrab> I suppose I'm as surprised it's building cleanly as I am that it's still running. I've seen very very few warnings
[05:53:17] <twincest> last time i tried it one of the variables had the same name as something solaris #defines in a header
[05:53:21] <twincest> that didn't work so well
[05:53:26] <twincest> guess they fixed it though
[05:54:18] <Plaidrab> Well, I might not have hit it yet. It has only been um.. 3 hours? :)
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[05:58:47] <edwardocallaghan> Hi everyone
[05:58:56] <edwardocallaghan> Oh there lots in this IRC !
[05:59:01] <dclarke> anyone out there have browsers other than Mozilla or SeaMonkey or Firefox ?
[05:59:14] <edwardocallaghan> Lynx ;0
[05:59:33] <nachox> konqueror
[05:59:40] <nachox> explorere :)
[05:59:49] <twincest> dclarke: konq and opera
[05:59:54] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/graphviz
[05:59:58] <dclarke> whats that look like
[06:00:02] <dclarke> reasonable ?
[06:00:07] <dclarke> its W3C clean
[06:00:12] <twincest> fine in opera
[06:00:13] <dclarke> but the CSS is a bit spotty yet
[06:00:19] <Plaidrab> hot damn. It's done
[06:00:32] <twincest> okay in konq too, except the the bottom of the box is only 1px away from the bottom of the page
[06:00:37] <Plaidrab> curl
[06:00:38] <twincest> so it looks like it has no bottom
[06:00:47] <dclarke> twincest:  thats correct .. no footer yet
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[06:00:51] <twincest> ok
[06:01:09] <twincest> that salmon colour is the same one the OpenVMS online documentation uses
[06:01:20] <dclarke> the footer is tough to place because it needs to be stacked under the preceding div
[06:01:22] <edwardocallaghan> Love KDE and Fluxbox ;)
[06:01:32] <boyd> Looks good to me dclarke
[06:01:37] <dclarke> Fluxbox is cool .. too true
[06:01:42] <dclarke> thanks
[06:01:48] <boyd> twincest: How many people would know that ? :)
[06:01:49] <dclarke> okay .. now to fix up the CSS on it
[06:05:53] <edwardocallaghan> Can anyone tell me if someone is working on a package manager for Solaris ?
[06:06:10] <dclarke> like what ?
[06:06:15] <dclarke> like apt-get ?
[06:06:19] <edwardocallaghan> No no
[06:06:25] <dclarke> or something much more sophisticated
[06:06:32] <edwardocallaghan> Just a GUI to back end pkg stuff
[06:06:44] <dclarke> yeah .. a few guys are working on that
[06:06:48] <dclarke> its a toughie
[06:06:49] <edwardocallaghan> I am thinking of doing one
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[06:06:55] <dclarke> cool !
[06:06:59] <dclarke> I elect you do it
[06:07:00] <dclarke> :-)
[06:07:06] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks ;)
[06:07:19] <dclarke> base it on pkg-get and I'll love ya
[06:07:22] <edwardocallaghan> I need to get a box up so I can have a site
[06:07:35] <dclarke> a site ?
[06:07:36] <edwardocallaghan> That's the plan
[06:07:39] <dclarke> a websitE?
[06:07:42] <edwardocallaghan> yes
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[06:07:53] <edwardocallaghan> Then I need to find some people to help
[06:07:56] <dclarke> no prob .. for OpenSolaris related work ?
[06:08:15] <edwardocallaghan> Yes and some PC-BSD and Fedora Core
[06:08:52] <dclarke> well .. for OpenSolaris/Solaris related work .. send me an email and I'll get you setup
[06:09:01] <edwardocallaghan> Solaris needs more drivers though
[06:09:08] <edwardocallaghan> Do you host?
[06:09:13] <dclarke> yep
[06:09:18] <edwardocallaghan> Great !
[06:09:35] <dclarke> for Solaris and OpenSolaris related work I do
[06:09:56] <dclarke> what are your requirements ?
[06:10:29] <edwardocallaghan> MySQL,PHP
[06:10:42] <dclarke> thats easy
[06:11:02] <edwardocallaghan> Going to use a XOOPS site for content management
[06:11:14] <dclarke> drop me a line at dclarke at blastwave dot org
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[06:11:21] <dclarke> I'll try to help you out
[06:11:43] <edwardocallaghan> that's fantastic thanks !
[06:12:24] <Plaidrab> Bugger. forgot to turn on threading
[06:12:45] <boyd> Noooooo!
[06:14:05] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:just emailing you now
[06:14:52] <edwardocallaghan> I am thinking of using XOOPS but do you know something better for keeping things neat for a dev team?
[06:14:53] <dclarke> thanks .. I'll put it in my work queue
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[06:15:57] <dclarke> a dev team ?
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[06:16:01] <dclarke> Lotus Notes ?
[06:16:03] <dclarke> SCCS ?
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[06:17:19] <Plaidrab> zope!
[06:17:32] <dclarke> notepad
[06:20:35] <boyd> trac
[06:21:00] <Plaidrab> Hmm. It won't build xft support in. Hmm
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[06:23:01] <edwardocallaghan> XOOPS it is then
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[06:24:19] <dclarke> no email received here
[06:24:27] <dclarke> just FYI
[06:26:21] <edwardocallaghan> OK just sent it
[06:26:34] <edwardocallaghan> Let me know if you need any more details
[06:26:58] <dclarke> got it
[06:27:17] <dclarke> I set up a dual Opteron server for someone with less info
[06:27:27] <dclarke> so .. I'll see what I can slam in place
[06:27:32] <edwardocallaghan> I will have to sit down with a friend of mine who is a project manager and get him on the team
[06:28:09] <edwardocallaghan> Nice Thank you very much indeed
[06:28:16] <dclarke> well .. my involvement would be to get you the infrastructure .. then get out of your way
[06:28:30] <dclarke> thats what I do .. its a simple job .. but someone has to do it
[06:28:34] <dclarke> :-)
[06:28:37] <edwardocallaghan> Good with me ;)
[06:29:01] <edwardocallaghan> Sounds fun in its own right
[06:29:04] <dclarke> O'Callaghan ? Scot ?
[06:29:06] <edwardocallaghan> I like the system
[06:29:17] <edwardocallaghan> Scot ?
[06:29:21] <dclarke> Scottish ?
[06:29:25] <dclarke> Irish ?
[06:29:28] <edwardocallaghan> Edward O'Callaghan
[06:29:33] <edwardocallaghan> Irish
[06:29:34] <edwardocallaghan> Yes
[06:29:38] <dclarke> ah .. well then ..
[06:29:45] <edwardocallaghan> And you?
[06:30:01] <dclarke> nine generations of Irish and Scottish
[06:30:08] <boyd> dclarke: Not so many O'Something's are Scots
[06:30:18] <edwardocallaghan> I am half Turkish half Irish but was born and live in the UK
[06:30:32] <edwardocallaghan> But I am moving to Australia soon
[06:30:47] <dclarke> spent most of my child hood in Cape Breton Nova Scotia where people still speak Gaelic
[06:30:50] <boyd> But a lot of us Somethingson's are of Scots origin
[06:31:01] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Whereabouts?
[06:31:09] * boyd lives in Melbourne
[06:31:35] <dclarke> fyi : end of testing here .. rolled out this : http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php
[06:31:48] <dclarke> it works and its more pretty .. good enough for now
[06:31:55] <edwardocallaghan> Well for the first two years in Canberra
[06:32:38] <boyd> Ah. Sorry about that. :)
[06:32:51] <edwardocallaghan> lol yes
[06:34:45] <edwardocallaghan> I am studying there then going to move to Uni in Adelaide
[06:35:09] <edwardocallaghan> Then I want to live in Melbourne or Adelaide
[06:35:47] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: Adelaide is a great city to use as a jumping off point to a place you really want to visit
[06:36:17] <sommerfeld_work> jmcp: thanks for the help the other day sorting out the sickness in the A5200's I have
[06:36:37] <jmcp> sommerfeld_work: you're welcome :)
[06:36:43] <jmcp> did you get a chance to replace the gbics?
[06:37:10] <sommerfeld_work> replaced 3 of 4 gbics and 2 of 4 cables  (one loop was clean; only had 2 cables on hand)
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[06:37:33] * jmcp nods
[06:37:36] <sommerfeld_work> you said the gbics tend to go bad after a few years?  the replacements had a mfg date in 1999 ...
[06:38:09] <jmcp> oh
[06:38:22] <jmcp> yeah, but that's "several years of use"
[06:39:00] <edwardocallaghan> I wish Sun would bring out a AMD x64 laptop
[06:39:26] <Plaidrab> Sun doesn't make the Sparcbooks
[06:39:55] <edwardocallaghan> I know
[06:40:12] <Plaidrab> I didn't realise that 5200s were still in service.
[06:40:17] <edwardocallaghan> Wish I had the 17" one though, the build Q is amazing
[06:40:23] <sommerfeld_work> jmcp: ah.
[06:41:48] <edwardocallaghan> Sun building a x86 laptop would not be a bad idea as it would be the only one that's not OEM to M$ and be out dated with bad build Q
[06:42:38] <sommerfeld_work> Plaidrab: A5200's were last shipped in early 2004.  should still be supported until 2009 or so.
[06:42:59] <Gr|ffous> I have a cdrom drive that had it's power disconnected for a moment, is there a way that I can get it back online again without restarting?
[06:44:22] <dclarke> attach the power ?
[06:44:25] <dclarke> that would help
[06:44:33] <dclarke> then run devfsadm -v -c disk -C
[06:44:39] <Gr|ffous> yup, it's powered and taking disks in/out
[06:44:40] <dclarke> then .. maybe .. volcheck
[06:44:53] <Plaidrab> Huh. I thought they stopped shipping them before I was laid off.
[06:45:45] <dclarke> burn out .. just set in ..
[06:45:46] <dclarke> ttyl
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[06:46:53] <sommerfeld_work> A5100 was last shipped in 2/2001
[06:47:07] <sommerfeld_work> but the 5200 lingered on..
[06:49:32] <g4lt-mordant> edwardocallaghan, uhm the sparcbooks are OEM to tadpole, a division of lockheed martin
[06:49:45] <gdamore> General Dynamics, actually
[06:50:02] <g4lt-mordant> sorry, I bow to your superior knowlege
[06:50:09] <edwardocallaghan> I know I know
[06:50:22] <g4lt-mordant> so are you guys thinking of ann athlon64 lappy?
[06:50:27] <Gr|ffous> oh well, worth a try
[06:50:29] * Gr|ffous reboots
[06:50:30] <gdamore> i cannae say. :-)
[06:50:49] <g4lt-mordant> I think i have the answe I wanted to hear :)
[06:51:16] <g4lt-mordant> my open offer to beta anything you want me to is still open :)
[06:51:27] <gdamore> meanwhile i'm getting pissed off at Via C7 based JetWay board, which just "hangs hard" at install, usually after installing about ~200MB to hard disk, but at other random points as well.
[06:51:40] <gdamore> its a fanless unit, and I'm wondering if the problem is thermal.  I hate PCs.
[06:51:52] <g4lt-mordant> memory issues?
[06:51:59] <edwardocallaghan> Well its naturetech really who build the 17" version
[06:52:34] <edwardocallaghan> Love SPARCS
[06:52:39] <gdamore> the 17" is a naturetech unit, true.  we did the 15" units.  (we have a 17" unit as well, but its a 28lb dual processor monster for the military that normal people cannot lift, much less afford. :-)
[06:52:40] <g4lt-mordant> edwardocallaghan, troo dat, but tadpole, in the form of one of its acquisitions, RDI, were the real innovators of the sparc-based laptop
[06:52:54] <trygvis> Error_404: aha, cool
[06:53:10] <gdamore> fwiw, i don't think it is memory.  i replaced the stick tonight with just that thought.
[06:53:18] <edwardocallaghan> I wish I could have one
[06:53:21] * g4lt-mordant still has a sparcboo2 flaoting around
[06:53:24] <gdamore> again, i hate PCs.  :-)
[06:53:54] <edwardocallaghan> What about the T1 chip, as its so efficient ...
[06:54:03] <sommerfeld_work> gdarmore: last time I ran into thermal issues, my short term fix involved a big box fan..
[06:54:11] <gdamore> the Ultrabook IIi still has the best damn laptop keyboard I've ever come across ... a damn fine sight better than most desktop keyboards, IMO
[06:54:16] <edwardocallaghan> Is there a reason why there not in the new notebooks?
[06:54:23] <g4lt-mordant> gdamore, is it hitting on a instruction that eh vias don't have?
[06:54:46] <g4lt-mordant> ISTR that vias had a R-CISC
[06:54:47] <gdamore> could be, but i thought all Vias had all instructions, if not in firmware, then at least in microcode
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[06:54:58] <sommerfeld_work> (a 20" box fan on high will move a lot of air.....)
[06:55:13] <sommerfeld_work> (but it might also cause that via to blow away...)
[06:55:19] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[06:55:20] <gdamore> sommerfeld: true.  but this was supposed to be for a low noise, low power NAS appliance. :-)
[06:55:30] <g4lt-mordant> last time I used via, they were still called cyrix, and they actually didn't have some of the ia32 instruction set
[06:55:45] <edwardocallaghan> same
[06:55:45] <Plaidrab> Tadpole also makes these lovely Laptop formfactor Sunrays
[06:55:53] <gdamore> heh.  i didn't know that the via parts had cyrix heritage.
[06:56:00] <g4lt-mordant> ayup
[06:56:07] <g4lt-mordant> that's why they suck so badly
[06:56:09] <sommerfeld_work> yah, but it would rule thermal issues in or out
[06:56:12] * gdamore still hates PCs. :-)
[06:56:34] <g4lt-mordant> Plaidrab, yeah, the only 802.11 sunray terminals out there
[06:56:39] <gdamore> sommerfeld: true.  I might see what I can scrounge up.
[06:56:41] <edwardocallaghan> I wish I could buy a SPARC book but there too expensive as a student
[06:56:54] <Plaidrab> Overpriced though. Ouch.
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[06:57:01] <gdamore> heh.  I wrote the 802.11 sun ray driver code in Comet. :-)
[06:57:17] <g4lt-mordant> edwardocallaghan, you can ususally get a used powerlite cheap (equivalent of a sparcstation 5)
[06:57:24] <Plaidrab> We use them as Server Room units. Though wireless is disabled.
[06:57:42] <gdamore> (and also in NatureTechs units, since they licensed code I supplied to Sun. :-)
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[06:58:52] <edwardocallaghan> Well I am planing on buying a new laptop
[06:58:59] <gdamore> of course, I'm not sure if nature ever actually got the wifi on their units working.  i wasn't really going out of my way to help them. :-)
[06:59:01] <edwardocallaghan> (I hate laptops)
[06:59:11] <razrX> morning all
[06:59:23] <edwardocallaghan> evening
[06:59:48] <Plaidrab> I'd really like a headless, possibly even keyboardless portable unit that docked. But I don't think I'm the normal customer.
[07:00:25] <gdamore> Plaidrab: you might like some stuff we have in development. :-)
[07:00:42] <edwardocallaghan> If only I could get my hands on a Meso 999
[07:00:43] <Plaidrab> Just like everything I need in a laptop is available in a 1998 PDA. Except it's size.
[07:00:44] <g4lt-mordant> well, I's still looking for the solaris PDA, so you aren't that weird ;P
[07:01:20] <gdamore> heh.  if I ever get around to the MIPS port, you might just get your wish.  there are MIPS based PDAs.
[07:01:37] <Plaidrab> : ponders a Sunray with local ejectable storage, basicly a USB HD in a kangaroo bay or the like.
[07:01:38] <gdamore> but don't hold your breath. :-)
[07:01:44] <g4lt-mordant> ayup, and I'll get one specifically to use it if you do so
[07:01:47] <gdamore> Plaidrab: its been thought of. :-)
[07:01:56] <Plaidrab> Oh, I'm sure
[07:02:17] <Plaidrab> But like I say. I'm not the customer.
[07:02:33] <Plaidrab> Or rather, there aren't enough like me to make product for
[07:02:36] <gdamore> but most "end user" cases for Sun Ray have only tiny amounts of local storage needed.
[07:03:13] <gdamore> the exception being optical readers.  optical storage is one area where a local drive is really, really useful.  everything else usually will fit on a usb token. :-)
[07:03:41] <Plaidrab> Same reason no one makes a PDA in a Laptopish form factor ( eMate notwithstanding ) cause too many people want to do non-work stuff on their laptop.
[07:04:00] <Plaidrab> I'm the guy in the cell phone shop screaming at the clerk. "I just want one that makes phone calls!"
[07:04:04] * gdamore has been hacking the Sun Ray "USB remote device driver (rdd)" protocols the past 2 weeks (implementing them for a client running on POSIX systems
[07:04:50] <gdamore> Plaidrab: I'm right next to you.  My phone actually only does phone calls,  though I got a bluetooth model since the headset is sometimes useful.
[07:05:37] <Plaidrab> That and the fact that a camera phone is a CLM. :)
[07:05:46] <gdamore> CLM?
[07:05:55] <Plaidrab> Career Limiting Move
[07:06:08] <Plaidrab> My worksite is not camera friendly. :)
[07:06:13] <gdamore> ouch.
[07:06:41] <jmcp> Plaidrab: you're in a no-such-agency type place?
[07:06:44] <gdamore> actually, i think my phone has a camera on it, now that i think about it.  but no games or organizer or web browser or any of that other crap
[07:06:55] <Plaidrab> No. I'm not in a no-such-agency place.
[07:07:04] <gdamore> there are a lot of places that aren't camera phone friendly
[07:07:16] <silk> The salesdroid that called me to sell me a new phone had to call back after looking to see if they still had one
[07:07:20] <Error_404> I worked at a call center that was strictly no camera
[07:07:38] <Error_404> like, consumer tech support
[07:07:59] <gdamore> heh.  a good excuse not to bring your phone with you (leave it at home or in the car).  I like that. :-)
[07:08:06] <g4lt-mordant> my call center is trechnically strictly no cel phones at all, but they have yet to complain about mine that's always in its holster on vibrate
[07:08:29] <Plaidrab> When I was 5, we had a darkroom in the basement. I'm not a good photogrpaher but even I go "How is this shitty camera supposed to be a selling point" :)
[07:09:10] <gdamore> actually, they've gotten pretty good now.  I megapixel is pretty common, and not long ago that was state-of-the-art for digital cameras
[07:09:27] <Plaidrab> It's not just the pixels
[07:09:40] <gdamore> no, its not, but that is one of the parts that drives up costs.
[07:10:19] <gdamore> my wife has found hers useful, on occasion, when she hasn't had the camera handy.  (e.g. to document insurance stuff, etc.)
[07:10:26] <Plaidrab> Anyway. I'm just an old fogey a few years ahead of schedule
[07:10:42] <twincest> i don't suppose anyone knows a TCP/IP implementation that runs under L4?
[07:10:59] <gdamore> any way, gotta run.  gonna play with the Via C7 more tomorrow.   If I don't figure it out soon, I'll just send it back and get a name brand EPIA board instead of the cheaper Jetway.
[07:11:06] <Plaidrab> I don't know. I just like saying FireEngine. :)
[07:11:24] <Plaidrab> Try it. It's fun. FireEngine.
[07:11:36] <Plaidrab> And that suggests it's time for bed
[07:12:00] <silk> twincest... um?
[07:12:11] <twincest> um what?
[07:12:22] <silk> L4?
[07:12:30] <twincest> L4, the realtime microkernel
[07:12:47] <silk> see now that makes sense... no :)
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[07:17:32] <FU5nUY7bd>
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[07:18:06] <edwardocallaghan> FireEngine.
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[07:20:11] <edwardocallaghan> Has anyone seen, openmoko
[07:20:29] <edwardocallaghan> Its a open Linux phone that's coming out in Jan2007
[07:21:14] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.openmoko.com/
[07:22:58] <g4lt-mordant> prolly to eveyone except my carrier
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[07:30:22] <twincest> someone ported fireengine to an L4 server?
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[07:33:25] <edwardocallaghan> Good night all
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[08:50:58] <newpers> The CD download for SX was 6 "required" CDs.  Are all 6 of those really required.
[08:51:00] <newpers> ?
[08:51:05] <newpers> And if so, wow!
[08:51:59] <boyd> Unfortunately, yes.
[08:52:22] <boyd> Unless you are *very* careful and know the pkg system quite well
[08:52:27] <boyd> It's a pain
[08:53:16] <newpers> thanks, boyd
[08:53:32] <twincest> you can do an install from 1 CD if you're careful but you end up with a very very bare system
[08:53:35] <twincest> basically don't bother
[08:54:25] <trygvis> morning
[08:55:06] <twincest> (if you need a custom install, read about jumpstart and flar, much better way to do it)
[08:55:11] <newpers> also, one more stupid question:  I downloaded "Solaris Express for Noncommercial Use".  I'm assuming that's the same thing as SX Community Release, yes?
[08:56:31] <newpers> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/solaris-express/get.jsp
[08:57:15] <andersmo> newpers: sorry, it's not.
[08:57:49] <andersmo> newpers: SXCR is linked to from this page: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/distributions/
[08:57:57] <boyd> newpers: Generally they are the same thing, but SX is an  older build and has seen more testing
[08:58:15] <newpers> so, SXCR is recommended, correct?
[08:58:31] <newpers> andersmo, thanks for the info
[08:58:32] <andersmo> depends on what you want? Stability or new shiny stuff to play with? =)
[08:58:33] <boyd> newpers: It's more bleeding edge... depends what you want it for
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[08:59:04] <newpers> shiny new stuff, of course :P
[08:59:14] <twincest> if you're interested in opensolaris, SX:CR is probably the right choice
[08:59:21] <andersmo> Or, if you want stability you probably want solaris 10. =)
[08:59:27] <twincest> just remember that's it's the least tested of all the solaris stuff
[08:59:49] <boyd> SX is normally only about 6 weeks behind, so it's not too bad
[09:00:36] <andersmo> But "least tested of all the solaris stuff" probably means it's about as stable as your average linux distro? ;)
[09:00:55] <Gr|ffous> thems fighting words
[09:01:06] <boyd> andersmo: lol
[09:01:09] <newpers> heh
[09:01:26] <boyd> andersmo: About right, I'd say
[09:02:18] <Gr|ffous> My first experience with solaris wasn't a pleasant one. Brand new ibm server that would reboot itself every time that it started X, which since it was a new install, and X was(is?) enabled by default meant that basically, it would boot, reboot, reboot, reboot... you get the idea :)
[09:04:01] <andersmo> Most of my experience with solaris is with production releases running on sun hardware. However, when I first installed a SXCR release on my AMD64 home system, I was somewhat surprised to find that the hardware support for my setup was at least as good as Windows XP x64 at that time. =)
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[09:05:02] <newpers> hmm... gmail is marking SDLCautoreply at sun dot com as spam
[09:05:44] <Gr|ffous> lucky you, I went through hell switching over from linux
[09:05:58] <Gr|ffous> I still get very lost, but I think it's worth it in the long run :)
[09:07:03] <boyd>  I think that we have morphed from "stable" to "hardware support", which is a different thing
[09:08:42] <newpers> night
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[09:10:34] <Gr|ffous> It's interesting, I can't say I remember seeing many updates about driver additions to solaris of late
[09:10:50] <Gr|ffous> Has my head just been in the wrong sandpit, or has this all tapered off
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[09:16:36] * Gr|ffous scratches
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[09:58:07] <raph_ael> hello
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[10:56:11] <Gr|ffous> hey does solaris come with something to open .sit files?
[10:56:22] <trygvis> what kind of files are .sit files?
[10:56:31] <Gr|ffous> I'm getting desperate to make a printer work under cups
[10:56:38] <Gr|ffous> they are a mac 'zip'
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[10:57:00] <Gr|ffous> I'm hoping that a mac printer driver might actually be a cups driver. In which case - woo hoo!
[10:57:52] <Gr|ffous> It's so frustrating, I almost have my parents on ubuntu, but the printer really doesn't want to play ball
[10:58:01] <mustang> its a stuffit archive
[10:58:14] <mustang> whatever Aladdin are called today have a stuffit expander for Solaris.
[10:58:18] <mustang> go google it up, you'll find it.
[10:58:58] <Gr|ffous> cool, thanks
[10:59:52] <Gr|ffous> does anyone happen to know if mac printer drivers are just .ppds these days?
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[11:06:21] <mustang> not really, no. the last HP printer I bought had all sorts of multi-function nonsense with it, but all the cute stuff is in the ppd.
[11:06:53] <mustang> so yeah, pull the stuffit archive apart and feed the ppds to your CUPS and see how you go
[11:08:07] <Gr|ffous> Yeah, has to be worth a try, and this point I'm almost at the point of trying to learn the format of these files, to edit one up myself.
[11:22:06] <twincest> hahah learning unix printing
[11:22:08] <twincest> fool!
[11:27:03] <Gr|ffous> gee, thanks ;)
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[11:36:01] <dlg> morning jmcp
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[12:06:21] <lloy0076> Ok, I'm seriously contemplating a "Make it Easier to use SWT" apps on Solaris project.
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[13:00:55] <timeless> supposing i'm silly and want cvsd (w/ support for lock free readonly checkouts only), can i get that from sunfreeware or on e of the other systems? :)
[13:01:21] <dlg> there's no such thing as cvsd
[13:03:16] <timeless> that's not exactly accurate
[13:03:20] <PerterB> actually, there is :) http://ch.tudelft.nl/~arthur/cvsd/
[13:03:40] <dlg> yeesh
[13:03:52] <timeless> welcome to open source ;-)
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[13:04:07] <dlg> ive used that stuff before
[13:04:13] <timeless> although heck, even if cvs were closed source, someone would probably have written cvsd :)
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[13:49:15] <sickness> http://www.opencvs.org/
[13:49:16] <sickness> :P
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[14:09:56] <twincest> 'opencvs' is a pretty stupid name for a project
[14:12:19] * timeless chuckles
[14:12:21] <timeless> but it has cute art
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[14:57:03] <nachox> there is no standard way to get nis to encrypt data right?
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[15:07:48] <Stric> nis+, but that's a different beast
[15:08:16] <nachox> unfortunately i cannot pick, i'm stuck with nis
[15:16:44] <jteo> dtrace is very entertaining. ;)
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[15:59:57] <quasi> Stric: nis+ should be avoided
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[16:07:02] <jteo> gdamore, fan of ARM?
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[16:15:13] * timeless tries to figure out where libgtk and libgtk2 (devel packages) are on the product cd
[16:15:57] <timeless> CSWgtk2 / CSWgtk ?
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[16:25:30] <whaq> gentlemen
[16:25:51] *** calumb has quit IRC
[16:28:55] <jbk> where?
[16:29:24] <whaq> can someone give me some pointers on how to change the boot drive? I've just added a sata card on my machine (making all the drives external on eSata)
[16:29:41] <whaq> jbk, heheh u think there aren't any?
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[17:01:59] <timeless> ok
[17:02:09] <timeless> how do i tell opensolaris *not* to try to install things into a zone? :(
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[17:02:48] <quasi> timeless: -G iirc
[17:02:58] <timeless> does that work for pkg-get?
[17:03:10] <asyd> yup.
[17:03:15] <asyd> edit pkg-get.conf
[17:03:19] <quasi> works pkgadd
[17:03:25] <asyd> the option is already here, but commented
[17:04:16] <timeless> swift# grep -- -G /opt/csw/etc/pkg-get.conf.csw
[17:04:17] <timeless> PKGADDFLAGS=-G
[17:04:24] <timeless> swift# /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install gtk
[17:04:29] <timeless> ## Waiting for up to <300> seconds for package administration commands to become available (another user is administering packages on zone <nexenta>)
[17:04:29] <timeless> pkgadd: ERROR: Unable to acquire package administration lock for zone <nexenta>; please try again later
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[17:22:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[17:22:45] <jteo> greetz stevel.
[17:23:11] <stevel> morning jteo
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[17:31:17] <gdamore> morning all.
[17:31:34] <edwardocallaghan> evening
[17:31:36] <gdamore> well I finally got Solairs (10 06/06) loaded on the Via C7 board from Jetway.
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[17:32:18] <gdamore> It doesn't like the onboard realtek gigE ports (rge doesn't recognize, and update_drv is not sufficient -- they then see media events, but the mac engine doesn't seem to rx/tx packets)
[17:32:24] <edwardocallaghan> How is Solaris and device drivers for USB xDSL modems?
[17:32:43] <gdamore> pretty dismal, I'd expect.
[17:33:07] <jbk> depends probably on what type of USB device it presents
[17:33:08] <gdamore> there are no standard USB ethernet (or ethernet-like) devices supported out of the box.  Masa's drivers might work, though
[17:33:13] <edwardocallaghan> I hate them anyway, USB is not ment for networks
[17:34:03] <edwardocallaghan> I really would like to recommend Solaris to people over Linux and Windows
[17:34:10] <edwardocallaghan> But no device drivers
[17:34:35] <gdamore> I wouldn't say "no".  But yes, the device support is not as rich as Linux or Windows.
[17:35:01] <gdamore> That's likely to always be a problem, for the simple reason that device mfgs don't write drivers for Solaris
[17:35:20] <edwardocallaghan> lol yes well you know what I mean...:-P
[17:35:48] <edwardocallaghan> Is there anyway to port them from Linux
[17:35:59] <edwardocallaghan> Or build a wrapper for them
[17:37:25] <gdamore> there is an "ndis" wrapper for some of them.  but i don't know about USB. :-/
[17:38:08] <gdamore> its not that hard to write Solaris drivers, especially if you have Linux sources and any Solaris experience.  but you do need reasonable coding skills. :-?
[17:38:13] <gdamore> :-) i mean
[17:40:57] <edwardocallaghan> Looks like I got some learning to do then?
[17:41:40] <edwardocallaghan> As soon as my site is up I'll setup a poll to see what drivers need to be ported the most
[17:42:52] <jteo> that's if the Linux sources aren't filled with magic numbers. ;)
[17:44:03] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[17:44:32] <edwardocallaghan> Do nvid and ATi do Solaris drivers?
[17:45:51] <gdamore> edwardocallagahan: nvidia does.  Sun writes drivers for ATI, but only older parts (where you can still get docs), and no 3D accel.
[17:46:35] <gdamore> jteo: even if there are magic numbers, a driver can often be written, but it will be harder to debug, or notice if you have "bugs".
[17:46:59] <jteo> gdamore, point taken.
[17:47:46] <edwardocallaghan> I guess 3D labs are Suns graphics people?
[17:47:51] <gdamore> edwardocallaghan: don't bother with a poll.  write the drivers that interest you the most.  I'd start with technology you're familiar with first, though.  e.g. for me writing a nic driver was relatively straight-forward.   but I still don't understand a lot of stuff about audio, so audio drivers are confusing.
[17:48:04] <gdamore> Sun wrote the drivers for the 3Dlabs chips.
[17:48:21] <gdamore> 3Dlabs are exiting the workstation graphics market, though.
[17:48:41] <jteo> i believe Creative acquired them, and then spun them off.
[17:48:48] <gdamore> right.
[17:49:15] <gdamore> they let most of their wildcat team go, and are focused on graphics for cell phones and embedded systems now.
[17:49:37] <jteo> i'm under the impression that nvidia owns the high end market nowadays. (Quadro)
[17:50:05] <gdamore> jteo: pretty much, i think
[17:50:28] <gdamore> unfortunately nvidia do not play well with sharing information about how to make drivers for their parts
[17:50:41] <jteo> neither does the other 50% (ATI)
[17:50:46] <Auralis> which is to bad, the Wildcats where damn good cards and seriously fster then the rest
[17:50:54] <gdamore> which means that they will only ever work on x86 machines (not sparc, mips, ppc, etc.)
[17:51:09] <gdamore> Auralis: ATI and Nvidia drove them out of the market.
[17:51:30] <gdamore> matrox is still around, but they are a niche player.
[17:51:39] <Auralis> yeah
[17:51:48] <jteo> the economics of semiconductor manufacturing favour volume. -sigh-
[17:51:59] <Auralis> matrox has the business crowd where quality matters ofer speed as niche
[17:52:45] <gdamore> i've looked at graphics suppliers recently looking for a graphics roadmap for our (Tadpole's) future SPARC products.  The roadmap is not promising.
[17:53:01] <Auralis> i bet
[17:53:12] <edwardocallaghan> I though the X??? cards in the Ultra45 are 3D labs cards
[17:53:17] <gdamore> They are.
[17:53:21] <gdamore> But 2D only.
[17:53:51] <Auralis> the xvr-500/600/1200/2500 are 3dlabs as well
[17:53:52] <gdamore> XVR-100, XVR-300 are Radeons.
[17:53:57] <gdamore> i was confused,  sorry.
[17:54:01] <edwardocallaghan> Use a Intel GPU with 10million IRQ's ahhahaha
[17:54:34] <gdamore> XVR 500 and above are 3Dlabs, but there is no roadmap beyond XVR-2500, and these are all waay too big (and hot) for a laptop class system
[17:54:44] <jteo> gdamore, from a business perspective, wouldn't it be easier for a company to get documentation for the chip one is licensing?
[17:54:49] <gdamore> even the XVR-500 exceeeds our power budget.
[17:55:04] <Auralis> yeah, those are big honking pci cards
[17:55:13] <gdamore> jteo: getting documentation out of ATI or Nvidia is impossible for newer parts
[17:55:44] <gdamore> I have docs for _some_ ATI parts, but nothing newer than the M9, and 2D details only.
[17:55:47] <jteo> jteo, ah. basically it's like here's the chip, the driver.
[17:55:53] * gdamore wrote the NetBSD radeonfb driver. :-)
[17:56:04] <jteo> gdamore, ;)
[17:56:53] <gdamore> yep.  Nvidia writes the drivers themselves, and won't provide information to anyone else on how to write an alternative (e.g. for a MIPS system, or embedded system)
[17:57:23] <gdamore> and they really only do the high volume systems.  I'm still surprised that they did a driver for Solaris.  But I'm grateful.
[18:00:50] <Auralis> wel, and sun building their own gfx cards, we all know how that ended
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[18:01:56] <edwardocallaghan> How does the XVR-2500 compare to a top end PC card?
[18:02:38] <Auralis> the xvr-2500 is a Realizm 500, itsa very fast card
[18:02:56] <Auralis> opengl 2.0 and the works
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[18:06:15] <edwardocallaghan> What about a 800
[18:06:48] <Auralis> the realizm 800 is a real beasty
[18:08:16] <edwardocallaghan> Wow ! the 3d labs site has changed to all embedded stuff
[18:08:25] <edwardocallaghan> That's a swing
[18:08:56] <Auralis> yeah, sucks, the realizm cards where imho the best cards out there, except for gaming
[18:09:02] <Auralis> and saly gaming brings the cash
[18:09:03] <edwardocallaghan> So please explain what's going on with the realizm cards now?
[18:09:27] <edwardocallaghan> Hate games
[18:09:42] <edwardocallaghan> Why where they not good for games though?
[18:10:17] <Auralis> there will be no new models, but i guess 3dlabs will continue to build the current ones for their customers, the 800 especialy is basicaly in every workstations high end unix system, hp, ibm
[18:10:47] <Auralis> they are optimized for display quality and accuracy, not fancy game gimmics
[18:11:09] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[18:12:29] <edwardocallaghan> So what's going to happen to the it all ?
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[18:12:40] <edwardocallaghan> VHS/BetaMax?
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[18:15:19] <alanc> gdamore: you see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/02/amd_nvidia_doj/ ?   looks like the feds are trying to see how hard nv & ati pushed the other players out
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[18:15:22] <gdamore> 3Dlabs is not making any new cards, so yeah, they're gone
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[18:15:58] <alanc> (btw, got a picture from Xorg on my XVR-100 board last week - unfortunately, it wasn't the right picture)
[18:16:12] <gdamore> alanc: bad url.
[18:16:23] <gdamore> but i'm glad to hear Xorg works on the XVR-100 now.
[18:16:48] <alanc> hmm, was in my cache, but reload made it go away
[18:17:05] <gdamore> I never did get a response on my offer to help with ATI or 3Dlabs approval for opensourcing sun code
[18:17:06] <alanc> said US Dept. of Justice had opened an antitrust investigation
[18:17:32] <gdamore> i would be surprised if Nvidia and ATI collaborated actively to drive other players out of the market.
[18:18:19] <edwardocallaghan> What about Microsoft
[18:18:22] <gdamore> there are still a few niche players anyway: Intel (only for pentiums), Via (s3 unichrome, also only integrated at the moment), and matrox
[18:18:47] <alanc> Xorg on XVR-100 won't be fast though, since for now, I just used the BSD wsfb driver with the ioctls changed back to the fbio names to open it as a dumb frame buffer
[18:19:05] <alanc> works better on m64 - have correct picture there
[18:19:05] <gdamore> ouch.  yeah, that won't be too fast.
[18:19:07] <edwardocallaghan> JUST a TIP but M$ could be braking antitrust
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[18:19:59] <edwardocallaghan> And maybe (just maybe) Intel
[18:20:00] <gdamore> maybe i should take a look.  i can probably help out with acceleration support for Xorg.  but why not using a radeon driver directly?
[18:21:01] <gdamore> edwardo: how would MS or Intel be doing anything antitrust related in the graphics space?  Intel has their own graphics chips, and MS stands nothing (significant) to gain by such an action
[18:23:04] <edwardocallaghan> AMD own ATi I am missing something
[18:23:33] <edwardocallaghan> no not in the GPU market
[18:23:46] <edwardocallaghan> I mean in general ...
[18:23:47] <gdamore> yes, AMD recently bought ATI.  but how does that implicate either MS or Nvidia?
[18:24:13] <gdamore> s/MS or Nvidia/MS or Intel/
[18:24:14] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry I am talking about more then one thing at once
[18:24:20] <gdamore> okay.  no worries.
[18:24:52] <edwardocallaghan> Are you part of the dev team for SPARC laptops then?
[18:25:09] <alanc> gdamore: mainly because I was going for quick port to be able to start testing and fixing the other bugs, like the keyboard ones I found once I had a running server
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[18:25:22] <gdamore> ah, that makes sense. :-)
[18:25:59] <alanc> jay down the hall has been poking at the radeon_drv.so to try and get it to work with XVR-100, but has gotten hung up on it trying to talk to a PC BIOS in a few places
[18:26:20] <gdamore> ah, yeah, i forgot about that code.
[18:26:32] <gdamore> i've hacked on the xvr-100 code myself, as well as other radeon drivers.
[18:27:08] <gdamore> probably the simplest fix is to have a standin stub routine for the BIOS read logic, and supply a binary "blob" consisting of BIOS content.
[18:27:23] <alanc> and Linda has promised to have her team port the pfb driver someday
[18:27:25] <gdamore> a cleaner fix, of course, is to get the params needed from OpenBoot
[18:27:39] <gdamore> yeah, I am not holding my breath where Linda is concerned
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[18:28:07] <alanc> also, wsfb works with the existing /dev/fb drivers, where radeon_drv needs /dev/xsvc or /dev/aperture
[18:28:30] <gdamore> "porting" the pfb driver would be a bad idea, that code is ugly.  much rather see the Xorg radeon_drv made to work with sparc
[18:28:45] <alanc> already confirmed that wsfb will never work with any of the 3dlabs cards though
[18:29:03] <gdamore> (i'm not saying doing a wsfb is a bad idea though -- it can be useful for a larger number of other graphics cards)
[18:29:13] <gdamore> why not?  are the fb's not mapped linear?
[18:29:14] <alanc> so it can't be a generic fallback for everything
[18:29:43] <alanc> apparently you can only use DMA to write to the fb's
[18:29:48] <gdamore> wow: reading the rge driver code.  jumbo frames not supported for PCIe chips, because they use bcopy instead of DMA.  ewwww
[18:30:05] <alanc> so they don't expose the ioctls to tell you how to mmap them in
[18:30:24] <gdamore> alanc: ouch.  maybe need a driver that can dma from a shadow framebuffer then?
[18:31:30] <gdamore> actually, one of the projects i wanted to start up, but never got around to, in NetBSD was to enhance wsfb so that it could use "drawing primitives" at the kernel level, so that registers wouldn't need to be mapped to userland to get accelerated support
[18:31:38] <gdamore> this would have been useful for things like the wildcat boards
[18:32:22] <gdamore> the goal was to be able to run an X server with uid != 0 :-)
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[18:35:13] <edwardocallaghan> Anyone tell me what the latest Solaris is
[18:35:34] <edwardocallaghan> I mean the build, are we still at 6/06
[18:36:21] <gdamore> Solaris 10 06/06 is the latest official Solaris.  Solaris Express is at 52.
[18:37:03] <edwardocallaghan> So what's the difference in Express ect I am a bit lost with that
[18:37:39] <PerterB> edwardocallaghan: http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/
[18:37:45] <alanc> Express is drops of the development branch of Solaris, the release after 10
[18:38:09] <alanc> (i.e. you can think of it as "Solaris 11 alpha", but we can't call it that)
[18:38:40] <sommerfeld_work> really more of a continuous beta
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[18:43:08] <edwardocallaghan> got it
[18:43:10] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks
[18:43:54] <edwardocallaghan> So is ZFS now used by default in the installer?
[18:44:02] <Auralis> no
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[18:46:24] <edwardocallaghan> How do you use it?
[18:47:21] <Auralis> you put aside free space forit during the install, or add free drives later
[18:47:25] <asyd> once solaris is installed
[18:47:51] <edwardocallaghan> Probley a stupid question I know
[18:48:20] <edwardocallaghan> OK so what's the partitioning tool?
[18:48:27] <Auralis> format
[18:48:36] <edwardocallaghan> Oh
[18:49:05] <edwardocallaghan> so: bash#format /dev/hda2 ?
[18:49:13] <Auralis> just format
[18:49:22] * AbeFroman hugs zfs
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[18:49:52] <edwardocallaghan> Then how do you move the install onto the ZFS partition ?
[18:50:08] <AbeFroman> my hug was unrelated
[18:50:15] <AbeFroman> to your issue
[18:50:51] <g4lt-mordant> edwardocallaghan, since zfs root isn't supported yet, you don't
[18:55:24] <gdamore> heh.  for my nas device, i put root on a smallish PATA drive, and am planning on using SATA mirrored drives for my zfs storage
[18:55:25] <edwardocallaghan> Oh its not bootable?
[18:55:40] <edwardocallaghan> http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/05/why-zfs-for-home.html I am readinf this
[18:55:44] <edwardocallaghan> *reading
[18:55:47] <gdamore> edwardo: not by default.  I think the problem is that the bootloaders don't grok zfs
[18:56:06] <edwardocallaghan> GRUB is a nice bootloader
[18:56:19] <edwardocallaghan> Maybe someone would like to have a hack at it
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[18:56:32] <edwardocallaghan> I must learn more to do it myself
[18:57:23] <edwardocallaghan> Right I am going out to eat :p be back tonight
[18:57:34] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks for the info guys see you later
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[19:07:03] <gdamore> hmmm.... just now looking at zfs for the first time.  am i better off with only two drives doing a mirror or a raidz?
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[19:09:49] <Auralis> 2 drives a mirror is better
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[19:10:28] <gdamore> that's sort of what i'm thinking.  it looks like you can't expand a raidz?  (That was the only reason i could see for using raidz, so that i could add more drives later.)
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[19:18:32] <elektronkind> you can't expand an existing raidz set
[19:19:03] <elektronkind> you would instead add an additional raidz set to the pool
[19:19:29] <gdamore> elektronkind: yeah, i'm getting that now. :-)
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[19:20:23] <gdamore> i must say, zfs is pretty darn easy.  much easlier than the old vxvm or Solstice Disk Suite stuff.
[19:22:39] <sickness> evening all
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[19:40:23] <jbk> gdamore: that's an understatement
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[19:47:15] <newpers> i'm about to install SXCR on an x86 32bit machine.  will zfs work on 32 bit systems?
[19:47:37] <dj2> yes
[19:48:13] <newpers> thanks
[19:51:54] <movement> but not well
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[19:53:37] <trygvis> not well? what does that mean?
[19:56:19] <gdamore> heh.  i'm using zfs on a 32-bit Via 1GHz system right now.  so far so good, but it has only been about 15 mins. :-)
[19:56:40] <ShadowHntr> well that's a VIA for ya. ;P
[19:57:12] <gdamore> heh.  My 1.2GHz was getting hung during install.  I finally solved the problem by downclocking to 1GHz.
[19:57:23] <gdamore> its a fanless unit, and I think it was getting too hot
[19:57:36] <ShadowHntr> my neighbor has a similar system
[19:57:43] <ShadowHntr> mini-itx with a via proc in a dvd player case.
[19:57:53] <ShadowHntr> don't know how he does solidworks on it...
[19:57:55] <ShadowHntr> :P
[19:57:57] <gdamore> i have a bigger case.  but minitx.
[19:58:31] <gdamore> this is to be a nas appliance, so compute isn't so important, apart from demands made by ZFS and NFS
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[19:58:42] <ShadowHntr> gotcha.
[19:58:57] <gdamore> i figure DMA with gigE and SATA is going to be how data moves around
[19:59:00] <moazamraja> that'd be interesting to see if a lil VIA proc can hold up to ZFS compression, etc.
[19:59:03] <ShadowHntr> springfield: how do you get a reverse lookup for your ip address?
[19:59:04] <springfield> hi all, does Solaris have the getmntent system call?
[19:59:11] <ShadowHntr> :/
[19:59:13] <moazamraja> how much RAM you got on the VIA box?
[19:59:14] <gdamore> i'm not interested in doing compression
[19:59:18] <gdamore> 1G
[19:59:20] <moazamraja> ok
[19:59:36] <ShadowHntr> springfield: dunno what that call is, but i know it has tgetent
[19:59:39] <gdamore> i want to get another via box and write a driver for the onchip crypto
[19:59:57] <gdamore> springfield: yes, it does.
[20:00:07] <moazamraja> int getmntent(FILE *fp, struct mnttab *mp);
[20:00:44] <gdamore> ShadowHntr: getmntent is alibrary routine to parse /etc/mnttab
[20:00:52] <ShadowHntr> ahhhh. that could be useful =)
[20:01:12] <gdamore> not really.  the format is pretty trivial to parse as is. :-)
[20:01:15] <springfield> I think getmntent might be glibc only :(
[20:01:23] <gdamore> no, Solaris has it.
[20:01:30] <springfield> gdamore: ah, great
[20:01:32] <gdamore> its kind of a defacto standard
[20:01:38] <moazamraja> getmntent(3C)    :/
[20:01:49] <springfield> gdamore: how long has it been around on solaris, do you know?
[20:01:55] <gdamore> since 2.0? :-)
[20:01:57] <gdamore> i.e. forever.
[20:02:04] <moazamraja> at least since 2.5.1
[20:02:07] <springfield> great stuff - thanks for your help
[20:02:18] <Error_404> longer than linux i'd assume
[20:02:22] <gdamore> actually, i think getmntent comes from SunOS 4.x :-)
[20:02:34] <springfield> er... out on a limb here. Does BSD have it?
[20:03:46] <gdamore> it looks like netbsd has an alternative called "getmntinfo"
[20:04:19] <gdamore> so i _think_ the answer is no.  i've not looked at freebsd etc.
[20:04:32] <springfield> gdamore: thanks
[20:04:47] <springfield> I should stop being lazy and find out myself :)
[20:04:49] <gdamore> i suspect statvfs() may be closer what you want, rather than getmntent
[20:05:55] <gdamore> although, it appears that you might need getmntent() to determine the actual filesystem tree....
[20:05:58] <springfield> gdamore: statvfs probably needs a mount entry
[20:06:02] <alanc> looping through entries in getmntent() can take a long time on bigger systems, with lots of automounts or zfs mounts
[20:06:30] <gdamore> alanc: why?  it just uses strtok() or somesuch on a read of /etc/mnttab.
[20:06:31] <alanc> I think the ON engineering home directory server is around 3500 entries in mnttab
[20:06:42] <springfield> strtok - yuck
[20:07:02] <alanc> I was thinking more of whatever you're doing with the results of getmntent() than getmntent() itself
[20:07:18] <gdamore> even so... it shouldn't be too bad.  as long as you don't reloop it _alot_.  i.e. you use getmntent once to build a list of mounts, and then use statvfs to read the data
[20:07:44] <springfield> I'll experiment and see what happens
[20:07:57] <gdamore> why do you want this data? btw?
[20:08:09] <springfield> ironically I'm writting some monitoring software
[20:08:22] <gdamore> alanc: did they use a seperate zfs for each engineers homedir? :-)
[20:08:32] <alanc> the gnome file manager trash can is a good example of pathological behaviour - it was scanning every entry in mnttab for a trash folder once a minute - do that on a large sun ray server with lots of users, each one scanning every mount point once a minute and you're wasting a lot of time/NFS bandwidth
[20:08:53] <gdamore> ouch.  thats just stupid.
[20:08:55] <alanc> gdamore: I think so
[20:08:56] <springfield> I hate gnome
[20:09:19] <gdamore> (stupid referring to gnome trash can, not to engineering practices at sun)
[20:09:27] <springfield> the lack of options really annoys me, I don't like using patronising software :)
[20:09:59] <sommerfeld_work> gnome seems to have a lot of "one user per system" assumptions buried in it.
[20:10:03] <alanc> the gnome trash can was designed for single user desktops, not many nfs mounts, so they were being efficient by moving files to a trash directory on each fs, instead of copying them to your home dir
[20:10:04] <gdamore> actually gnome is one of the more configurable options, unless you go for fvwm or somesuch
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[20:10:35] <gdamore> that sounds like a bad idea from a security standpoint as well.  i.e. who owns the trash directory?
[20:11:04] <gdamore> but it is probably better than "copying" files in order to delete them :-)
[20:11:25] <gdamore> trashcans are for Windoze noobs that expect a reasonable "undelete".
[20:11:41] <springfield> so the trashcan had its own filesystem?
[20:11:42] <gdamore> but with zfs, you could use a snapshot to get the same kind of behavior. :-)
[20:12:40] <gdamore> springfield: IIUC, no, it had its own directory on each filesystem
[20:12:42] <springfield> ah... did it work by making hardlinks?
[20:12:48] <gdamore> probably
[20:12:55] <springfield> silly me :)
[20:13:00] <alanc> but the reason I noticed the number of mounts on jurassic was wondering why add_install_client took so long on it one day, and it's because it was checking all the mounts for something (I forget what)
[20:13:20] <gdamore> it looks for exported filesystems, IIRC
[20:13:58] <gdamore> add_install_client is probably a pathlogical case for shell scripting, too. :-)
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[20:14:23] * gdamore rewrote a curses based add_install_client in dtksh about a decade ago while still at qualcomm. :-)
[20:14:28] <alanc> I think patchadd is still on top of my list of "Shell Scripts Gone Wild"
[20:14:46] <gdamore> heh.  i dunno.  they are both pretty nasty.
[20:15:10] <gdamore> i have always believed that patchadd should be a C program.
[20:15:33] <gdamore> add_install_client, performs simple enough stuff, that it _could_ have been a reasonable shell script.
[20:16:07] <gdamore> (actually, i wrote a version of add_install_client -- no common code -- for use in our factory, where we use custom jumpstart to preinstall Solaris in our factory)
[20:16:34] <springfield> gdamore: and where did you use that ;)
[20:16:45] <gdamore> but it also supported setup of JDS (Linux), too
[20:16:53] <gdamore> springfield: I work for Tadpole Computer.
[20:17:13] <gdamore> we make Solaris laptops.
[20:17:20] <gdamore> (Solaris/SPARC)
[20:17:44] <springfield> gdamore: cool, what might one use a sparc laptop for?
[20:18:00] <gdamore> any thing one might use a SPARC desktop for. :-)
[20:18:19] <springfield> gdamore: good answer
[20:20:09] <gdamore> hmm... now that this NAS box is running, I should probably go invest in a gigE switch.  moving a dozen DVD ISOs over 100BaseT is slow.
[20:21:04] <g4lt-mordant> awwwwww
[20:21:33] <sommerfeld_work> gdamore: so, what turned out to be the problem causing install to fail?  thermal, or something else
[20:21:40] <g4lt-mordant> actually, my original idea for a tadpole was a portable jumpstart server
[20:21:54] <gdamore> pretty sure it was thermal.  i downclocked to 1GHz (from 1.2) and it Just Worked
[20:22:30] <gdamore> g4lt-mordant: yes, you could do that.  but you could also use any PC for that (loaded with Solaris x86)
[20:22:49] <gdamore> in fact, I'm using this Via system (NAS) for serving jumpstart as well as compilation directories
[20:23:06] <g4lt-mordant> gdamore, this was when sol/x86 was OS no grataq
[20:23:17] <gdamore> heh.  not that long ago.  :-)
[20:23:57] <gdamore> i've done install servers running Linux, but it requires some hand hackery as the add_install_scripts assume Solaris in a few places (but not that many, surprisingly)
[20:24:17] <jbk> heh
[20:25:41] <gdamore> i'm going to have to hack rge to support the onboard gigE on this Jetway board though.  the newer 8110SC (8169 variants) require some additional driver tweaks, apparently
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[20:28:27] <Error_404> gdamore: are there any open drivers for it? (bsd, linux...) ?
[20:28:32] <jbk> if i feel ambitious, once the wireless stuff has integrated, i was gonna see what i could do with the revere engineered broadcom wireless docs some people have been compiling (for private use)
[20:28:49] <gdamore> yes, and I even think Masa-san's gani supports it, but I want support in the stock rge driver
[20:29:29] <Error_404> you could try'n cleanroom the driver, *shrug*
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[20:53:49] <_william_> hi all
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[21:26:22] <jbk> heh.. managed to have almost 64000 lwps on this box
[21:26:53] <jengelh> why is that something special?
[21:27:15] <jbk> it's a bit high
[21:27:32] <jengelh> in what respect
[21:27:32] <jbk> and apparently hit's a limit on the default segkp size in solaris 10
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[21:33:58] <Error_404> what the blazes? dns stopped working
[21:34:44] <gdamore> interesting results comparing my SB100 (768MB, 500MHz, PATA, ufs) and the Via C7 (1GHz, SATA 150, zfs mirror, 1GB)
[21:35:00] <gdamore> md5 over a 770MB iso (xubuntu) gives the following:
[21:35:15] <gdamore> on the SB100: 20.80u 11.78s 0:38.57 84.4%
[21:35:30] <gdamore> on the Via C7: 16.04u 3.25s 0:22.72 84.9%
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[21:36:22] <gdamore> so even though the Via is slow, its still faster than my old Sun box at pure CPU stuff.  and the IO is a lot faster.
[21:36:37] <gdamore> it would be cool to have the ability to use the onchip crypto on the via, though.
[21:37:23] <Error_404> what's your sata setup?
[21:37:32] <Error_404> single drive, or ?
[21:37:41] <gdamore> 2 drive mirror
[21:37:56] <Error_404> how's the iostat on that beast?
[21:38:07] <gdamore> i've not tested it yet.
[21:38:14] <gdamore> is there a good benchmark to use?
[21:38:20] <Error_404> zfs iostat ?
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[21:38:50] <Error_404> I get about 13MB/s off my single sata drive
[21:38:55] <Error_404> with compression though, so who knows
[21:39:28] <gdamore> zfs iostat? :-)
[21:40:13] <Error_404> okay, so it's not a benchmark
[21:40:47] <gdamore> weird.  trying to use /bin/cat to just do io is bad, because it detects /dev/null as a special case, and doesn't do anything, apparently
[21:41:10] <Error_404> you could use /dev/urandom
[21:41:26] <gdamore> that would test write speed.  i'm testing read right now.
[21:41:38] <gdamore> using dd.... just a sec.  (single threaded, so may not be a great test)
[21:43:09] <gdamore> looks like ~21MB/sec, but that seems hard to believe
[21:43:28] <Error_404> i'd believe it
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[21:43:31] <Error_404> you're reading off a mirror
[21:43:51] <gdamore> pretty darn cool.
[21:44:34] <Error_404> I might think of pickup up one of those C7's for a fileserver
[21:44:43] <gdamore> so far i'm impressed.
[21:45:31] <gdamore> i bought a fanless 1.2GHz Jetway board.  i wouldn't recommend that again.  i had to downclock it to keep it from overheating
[21:45:54] <gdamore> the 1.5GHz boards with fans are actually cheaper, and I think the fans are prettyquiet
[21:46:26] <gdamore> i have to get close to my unit to hear the drives or case fans -- i'm amazed at how quiet this thing is
[21:46:55] <gdamore> (its a Venus case, forgot the exact name.  I have another Antec Aria case waiting for a different Jetway board though)
[21:47:09] <quasi> gdamore: so you got it booting and all?
[21:47:18] <gdamore> yep.
[21:47:29] <quasi> what was the problem?
[21:47:38] <richlowe> Indeed, what was happening? :)
[21:47:39] <gdamore> running Solaris 10 06/06 with zfs right now.
[21:47:40] <quasi> or rather - the fix ;)
[21:47:45] <richlowe> oh, you cheated.
[21:47:48] <gdamore> turn down the clock. :-)
[21:47:49] * richlowe loses interest :)
[21:47:57] <gdamore> i expect SNV will "just" work
[21:48:09] <gdamore> i.e. SNV booted, but got hung just like S10 06/06
[21:48:30] <gdamore> I'll probably install SXCR on it next, i left room on the root drive for an alternate OS image.
[21:48:59] <gdamore> (the SXCR install got up to ~900MB installed before the CPU overheated and hung)
[21:49:36] <richlowe> Oh, your panics were heat?
[21:49:38] <richlowe> pity.
[21:49:47] <richlowe> Well, not for you I guess, but they seemed like they'd be interesting as a bug :)
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[21:50:50] <gdamore> well, i still have to fix a problem with the on-board rge interfaces, so i get to write some code.
[21:50:53] <Error_404> looking @ pricing...
[21:51:06] <Error_404> i can just build a sempron64 machine for the same price as a via machine
[21:51:12] <gdamore> the EPIA boards might be better
[21:51:24] <jbk> hey.. anyone know offhand if any parts of the kernel in solaris 10 are pageable?
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[21:51:25] <quasi> gdamore: isn't there a driver for the rge nics somewhere?
[21:51:30] <gdamore> Error_404: true.  but the sempron systems will suck up several times more watts.
[21:51:52] <gdamore> there is, but the on-board chips have a different revision, and the driver needs tweaking to make it work
[21:52:13] <gdamore> (its more than just a vendor/device id change, apparently some additional tweaks are also necessary, i'll play with it later)
[21:52:21] <jbk> such as say, kthread_t's?
[21:53:11] <quasi> http://www.epiacenter.com/powersim/powersim_v2/epiasimulator_v2.htm has a nice power compare for various mini boards
[21:53:12] <gdamore> ?
[21:54:47] <Error_404> actually, speaking of sempron64... anyone know of a decent (supported, not crap) socket 754 board
[21:55:00] <Error_404> the one i have currently is apparantly total garbage
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[22:06:29] <ShadowHntr> Error_404: i'd have to ask my roommate - he has an EPIX board, i think.
[22:14:36] <jbk> brain fart: how do i dump the value of a symbol in mdb?
[22:14:59] <jmcp> jbk:    symbolname=X
[22:15:28] <stevel> symbol/X
[22:15:30] <stevel> isn't it?
[22:15:31] <jmcp> gah
[22:15:34] <jmcp> too darned early for me
[22:15:40] <jmcp> jbk: stevel is correct
[22:16:04] <jbk> if it's a 64bit val?
[22:16:13] <Tpenta> jmcp is also correct "too damned early for me"
[22:16:18] <jbk> haha
[22:16:25] <jmcp> jbk: maybe a /J ?
[22:17:20] <richlowe> dereferences, = doesn't.
[22:17:28] <richlowe> so depending on what in specific was meant, "Both". :)
[22:17:32] <jbk> (trying to find the value of 'segkpsize' on a system)
[22:17:39] <richlowe> / dereferences, that is.
[22:18:46] <Tpenta> twilight zone time; we just recommended a change to that to a high profile cust as they were filling it
[22:18:55] <jbk> ahh so that was you :)
[22:19:28] <Error_404> I should really get around to picking up the perf/tools boog
[22:19:30] <Error_404> book
[22:20:30] <jbk> just wanted to make sure we have a way to verify the new value is there
[22:20:49] <jbk> was gonna try it on my workstation
[22:21:00] <Tpenta> you want the /J
[22:21:16] <Tpenta> the default is 0x40000
[22:21:39] <Tpenta> which is a number of 8k pages
[22:21:43] <Tpenta> ie 2 gb
[22:21:53] <jbk> ahh
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[22:56:25] <Tpenta> need coffee
[22:57:01] <_william_> :)
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[23:19:37] <gdamore> hmm... i just noticed that the Solaris 10 06/06 DVDs are considerably larger than the SXCR 52 DVDs.  I wonder why.  Star Office, perhaps?
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[23:24:34] <alanc> both should have the same staroffice bits
[23:24:51] <alanc> does the S10 DVD include JES too?
[23:25:19] <delewis> alanc, no
[23:25:31] <alanc> hmm, not sure why then
[23:26:03] <alanc> i would have figured the other way, especially since on CD's S10U2 is still only 4 discs, while nv_52 is up to 6
[23:26:14] <delewis> yeah.
[23:26:24] <delewis> S10U2 does ship Mozilla, though.
[23:26:29] <delewis> which is much larger than Firefox
[23:26:30] <richlowe> language CD rolled into the DVD?
[23:26:32] <delewis> likewise Evolution
[23:26:36] <delewis> richlowe, yeah.
[23:26:53] <alanc> is Mozilla really that much bigger than Firefox + Thunderbird?
[23:27:03] <_william_> is the release date os update 3 publicly known ?
[23:27:05] <delewis> it certainly feels larger :-)
[23:27:14] <alanc> _william_: RSN
[23:27:21] <alanc> exact date, no
[23:27:22] <elektronkind> hmm. 12/04 and no u3. In terms of waiting for u3, it feels like 12/15.
[23:27:38] <_william_> well can we hope it will be this year ? :)
[23:27:48] <alanc> yes
[23:27:51] <_william_> cool :)
[23:27:52] <alanc> you can always hope
[23:27:56] <_william_> ...
[23:28:01] <_william_> ;)
[23:28:05] <delewis> alanc, Mozilla has a lot of extras that Sun shipped, including mozilla-mail, Composer, etc.
[23:28:23] <elektronkind> u3 patches have started showing up on sunsolve... eg: the trusted extensions.
[23:28:39] <delewis> yes
[23:28:41] <alanc> yeah - it's getting close, it just slipped a little later than originally planned
[23:28:47] <delewis> and a lot of those patches break things
[23:29:26] <elektronkind> they make delewis sad
[23:29:33] <delewis> :-(
[23:29:41] <elektronkind> a sad, sad panda
[23:29:43] <delewis> well, when you can't create zones or when usermod fails to work, yeah.
[23:29:53] <delewis> I tend to get a little pissed^W sad
[23:30:02] <alanc> patching TX into the existing system is ... tricky
[23:30:07] <richlowe> the patches lately seem to have been a whole bucket of fun.
[23:30:26] <delewis> yeah, I've had to backout about 5 or 6
[23:30:34] <delewis> two were breaking things, but of course, they had dependencies.
[23:30:36] <alanc> lots of interdependencies, some of which were unfortunately missed in the Patch Requires fields
[23:30:39] <delewis> (one being the latest kernel patch)
[23:31:30] <delewis> for some reason, I had forgotten that the libc is patched with most kernel patches, and it took me forever to track the suspect patch down.
[23:31:58] <delewis> apparently one of the later patches does not include a specific version of a symbol that usermod uses
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[23:35:31] * delewis throws rocks at Sun's QA department
[23:36:07] <delewis> boulders, rather.
[23:36:19] <elektronkind> delewis the centimani
[23:36:27] <delewis> hehe
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[23:45:32] <krozinov> do i need to be running rpc.statd, rpc.lockd, or portmap on an nfs client?
[23:45:43] <jengelh> all three
[23:46:28] <elektronkind> yes
[23:46:49] <elektronkind> statd/lockd coordinate file locks with the nfs server
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[23:47:03] <elektronkind> rpcbind is needed for them to talk
[23:47:12] <delewis> none of which are required for NFSv4, unless I'm mistaken.
[23:47:21] <delewis> I know lockd isn't required
[23:47:54] <asyd> well, since nfvs4 is not standard rpc.. afair
[23:48:31] <elektronkind> I think nfsv4 folds all that into the single nfs4cbd daemon - the nfs4 callback daemon
[23:48:51] <elektronkind> rpcbind is still needed afaik
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[23:54:36] <jmcp> morning all
[23:56:29] <silk> I didnt think it was.. given it all travels over a wellknown port now
[23:58:33] <_william_> morning
[23:58:49] <_william_> or night according to your TZ :) here it's almost midnight ;)
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