December 1, 2006 
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December 1, 2006 [00:00:04] <bobbyz> coffman: I could indeed do that, but I'm in love with yakuake on KDE, and for some reason, changing to vt100 terminal settings on it doesn't work [00:00:23] *** tassieboy has joined #opensolaris [00:00:26] *** tassieboy has left #opensolaris [00:01:12] <coffman> o [00:01:47] <bobbyz> I know, sounds silly, but I love to be able to drop down a bunch of tabbed terminals whenever I wish. [00:02:01] <Error_404> speaking of VT100... an 80 char x 24 char LCD would be a fantastic thing to get ahold of... put a terminal inside a couple 5.25 drive bays [00:02:16] <bobbyz> that would be awesome [00:02:17] <coffman> im in love with securecrt [00:02:22] * coffman hides [00:02:41] *** gm152 has quit IRC [00:02:53] <bobbyz> coffman: windows?! :) [00:03:08] *** postwait has quit IRC [00:03:09] <coffman> could be.... [00:03:51] *** Kernel86|Laptop has joined #OpenSolaris [00:03:58] * Error_404 sits in his happy little world where he hasn't so much as needed to touch windows in half a decade [00:04:03] <bobbyz> Actually that term doesn't look too bad. I think I'd stick to putty over it just because putty is free, but oh well [00:04:14] <coffman> yeah [00:04:21] <coffman> but secure crt is lovely [00:04:42] <coffman> its realy light-weight and feature rich [00:04:51] <coffman> u cant say that about gnome term [00:04:52] <bobbyz> Error_404: yeah, you are indeed lucky :) [00:05:14] <Error_404> I literally haven't sent a single keystroke to a windows machine in about that long [00:05:30] <bobbyz> yeah, I can't say I'm a big fan of gnome term...not much of a fan of gnome in general but that's a whole 'nother story [00:05:43] <coffman> yeah [00:05:44] <bobbyz> Error_404: what type of work do you do? [00:05:49] <Error_404> I'm a student [00:05:52] <coffman> but its the default on jds [00:05:55] <Error_404> & my school is a unix shop [00:06:22] <bobbyz> Error_404: that's pretty unique -- a fully unix college [00:06:37] <Error_404> I think there's a single windows lab somewhere in the school.... [00:06:46] <jbk> yeah.. i mean we had a lab with sun workstations at school [00:06:49] <Error_404> i haven't discovered it, but I also have no reason to look for it [00:06:52] <jbk> to run mentor graphics [00:06:56] <jbk> but also had a windows lab [00:07:09] <coffman> well i will builld enlightenment soon :) [00:07:19] <bobbyz> coffman: I think if I were to install a solaris box with x windows on it, I'd go minimal and then blastwave a kde install just to avoid gnome :) [00:07:20] <jbk> on solaris? [00:07:33] <Error_404> everything's blade150's except the supercomputing lab... they own an origin of some sort [00:07:41] <coffman> jbk: yeah [00:07:47] <bobbyz> Error_404: that's very impressive [00:08:06] <jbk> good luck.. last i heard the code wasn't the most portable [00:08:10] <bobbyz> I wish I went to your school :) [00:08:16] <coffman> bobbyz: i avoid blastwave :) [00:08:23] <bobbyz> coffman: ahh, IC [00:08:28] <coffman> jbk: its allready portet in pmpkg [00:08:35] <coffman> i does run [00:08:36] <moazamraja> origins are ...old. [00:08:43] <moazamraja> like really old...and inexpensive now :/ [00:09:28] <coffman> bobbyz: blastwave had put me serveral times in dependence hell [00:09:39] <coffman> i dont like that [00:10:35] <bobbyz> coffman: now that you mention it, I didn't like how blastwave's midnight commander needed X packages. I had to use a package from sunfreeware instead [00:10:57] <coffman> hehe [00:11:00] <coffman> u see [00:11:19] <bobbyz> yeah, you're right [00:12:06] <stevel> gman, laca: ping [00:15:55] *** xiaofeng_ has joined #opensolaris [00:21:05] <coffman> nv53 will be the next exp release right? [00:21:28] <alanc> will be the next SX:CR release [00:21:35] <alanc> next SX:non-CR is TBD [00:21:35] <laca> stevel: pong [00:21:49] <stevel> laca: is there a way to specify the colour of the workspace-switcher in the panel? [00:22:03] <stevel> after i upgraded to snv_53, the background color is black which is kind of annoying [00:22:06] <laca> i think it follows the theme [00:22:15] <laca> the black bg is due to a bug [00:22:19] <laca> caused by a TX patch [00:22:22] <stevel> ahh [00:22:23] <laca> fixed in snv_54 [00:22:36] <stevel> okay, yeah - it used to look nice and follow the theme before, but now it's black (since the snv_53 upgrade) [00:22:37] <alanc> thought that was covered on nv-users mail [00:22:43] <stevel> if it's just a bug, then no worries, i'll wait [00:22:52] <alanc> (which we need to get at least some of outside) [00:23:00] <stevel> alanc: hrm. i must have missed that one. i thought i knew most/all of the snv_53 issues, didn't know this one though [00:23:49] *** Andrew___ has quit IRC [00:24:00] *** coffman changes topic to "" [00:26:43] <coffman> ups [00:26:47] *** coffman changes topic to "SXCR: 52 | ON build: 53" [00:27:41] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest releases: SXCR: 52 | ON build: 53" [00:27:53] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 52 | ON build: 53" [00:29:44] *** yarihm has quit IRC [00:33:55] <coffman> thx my bad [00:33:58] <coffman> shit xchat [00:34:16] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC [00:36:58] <richlowe> stevel: for reference, s/sure/not sure/ [00:37:35] <stevel> hrm? [00:37:47] <richlowe> oh, I butchered a sentence in a reply to you and kupfer. [00:37:50] <stevel> ah [00:37:52] <richlowe> figured it wasn't worth replying to insert a word. [00:38:31] <stevel> got it now [00:39:34] *** xiaofeng_ has quit IRC [00:41:59] <richlowe> stevel: while I'm here. wschk? [00:42:55] <stevel> yeah, what about it? [00:43:02] <stevel> i think we don't need it [00:43:11] <richlowe> Yeah, you never actually told me that bit, see. [00:43:16] <richlowe> you were going to find out... that's the last I knew. :) [00:43:21] <stevel> oh, sorry... my bad [00:43:28] <stevel> too many discussions in my head [00:43:39] <stevel> it's used by CRTs to check workspaces before accepting RTIs [00:43:49] <richlowe> Yes. [00:43:51] <richlowe> and it uses Teamware. [00:44:04] <richlowe> when the ON gate is hg, they no longer will be able to use it. [00:44:24] <richlowe> (though in theory, they won't be able to depend on workspace access, either) [00:44:24] <stevel> so as near as i can see, it's yet another form of pbchk [00:44:38] <richlowe> Yeah, the impression I got from the CR referencing it was that it was a better form of pbchk. [00:45:01] <stevel> i'm not convinced it's better - but i haven't looked at the code itself yet [00:45:31] <stevel> i'll ping bonnie and see if i can get it approved to opensource and we'll throw it outside, and we can determine if it's got any better checks [00:46:53] <coffman> hm patching needs realy realy some love [00:48:54] <bobbyz> I've come to love pca [00:49:58] <elektronkind> onnv-notify has been oddly silent the past few days [00:50:11] <coffman> bobbyz: yeah pca is cool enough [00:50:24] <coffman> but its easy to screw if u got zones [00:50:35] <bobbyz> I just love the fact that it is so lightweight. [00:50:48] <bobbyz> Ahh yeah, I don't use any zones other than global [00:52:26] * McBofh heads [00:52:31] *** McBofh has quit IRC [00:53:31] <coffman> i could start bitch or cry about, but its all my fault [00:53:51] <bobbyz> ? [00:54:18] <coffman> not reading the documentation proper [00:55:37] *** solarisjon has left #opensolaris [00:59:10] <boyd> Geez, where's b53? I was hoping do grab it today while I'm here on this fast(ish) net [01:00:13] <boyd> s/do/to [01:01:50] *** uebayasi has joined #opensolaris [01:09:11] <alanc> elektronkind: see opensolaris-announce mail from this morning about restricting putbacks to serious bugs to bring bug counts down [01:15:29] <elektronkind> oh no [01:15:50] <stevel> alanc: do you still have those pc-style type7 keyboard/mice in your labs? [01:16:05] <stevel> i found someone with a unix-style type7 who is willing to trade it for a pc-style one :-D [01:17:20] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris [01:17:33] <elektronkind> what is this "crisis" [01:17:41] <elektronkind> and why the coyness about it? [01:19:32] <richlowe> what coyness? [01:19:55] <richlowe> stevel: the type7 is real nice. [01:19:58] <richlowe> stevel: beg, borrow, steal. [01:20:04] <stevel> richlowe: i'm trying :) [01:20:24] <elektronkind> not really explaining what this crisis is, and why it has affected putbacks in such a way for a month. [01:20:28] <elektronkind> that kind of coyness [01:20:33] <elektronkind> you know, " [01:20:37] <boyd> elektronkind: I'm inclined to agree [01:20:40] *** printk has quit IRC [01:20:55] <elektronkind> you know, "don't mind the man behind the curtain" [01:21:06] <richlowe> I read it as "bug count is high, we'd like to bring it back down" [01:21:06] <boyd> "Open" means more than just making source and bug trackers available [01:21:09] <richlowe> ... is that rocket science? [01:21:17] <richlowe> I think the annoucement being so late is terrible. [01:21:21] <richlowe> but the announcement itself is just fine. [01:21:38] <boyd> I don't understand... I thought that the b54 gate already closed [01:23:16] <boyd> Are they saying they will backout feature putbacks? [01:23:31] <stevel> boyd: no... just that new feature putbacks won't be approved to putback in the first place [01:23:36] <stevel> any stuff already in is fine [01:23:40] <elektronkind> sigh. I don't know anymore. [01:24:03] * elektronkind sits in the corner and mumbles "too much sun" repeatedly while rocking back and forth [01:24:05] <richlowe> boyd: Bug good, RFE bad. [01:24:11] <boyd> stevel: But isn't the gate closed? They [01:24:14] <richlowe> (probably dependent on priority for bug too, I'd imagine) [01:24:19] <richlowe> boyd: 54 closed, 55 is open. [01:24:20] <boyd> stevel: But isn't the gate closed? They're alre alredy putback [01:24:32] <richlowe> boyd: but you'll notice 54 was short on RFE's too... [01:24:35] <stevel> yeah, hence why stephen harpster was apologising for the late notice [01:24:38] <richlowe> the announcement was just pathetically late. :) [01:24:47] <stevel> 54 didn't have very many (any?) RFE's that went into it [01:25:08] <richlowe> stevel: it got Huron support and a couple of other things. [01:25:12] <richlowe> stevel: and Tpenta's makefile :) [01:25:49] <alanc> stevel: I think I still have a PC layout - our next batch of Unix layout ones are supposed to arrive mid-late December [01:26:03] <elektronkind> so hmm. the CAB has no say in how the nevada tree is treated? [01:26:42] <boyd> richlowe: Yeah, so that's what I mean... are those two things now rolled back? [01:26:46] * elektronkind again wonders, on a general level, what the CAB really does. [01:27:12] <alanc> hmm, I guess we are treating the master gates on opensolaris.org as still subject to the Solaris build schedule above all other distros [01:27:18] <richlowe> The CRTs (and probably others) control the gates on that level. [01:27:27] <stevel> alanc: can you spare one for me? :) [01:27:50] <richlowe> and I think diverging from scheduling and everything else just to prove to yourself we're different would be so incredibly foolish I'm lacking appropriate vocabulary. [01:27:52] <stevel> boyd: no, they're not rolled back [01:27:55] <alanc> maybe once there's an SCM that allows easier branch management, so that we'd just not pull from the opensolaris.org master into the Solaris Express branch for those builds [01:28:12] <richlowe> which I'd still consider foolish. [01:28:25] <richlowe> if you want to maintain a gate on a seperate tack, *you* branch it. [01:28:38] <alanc> as annoying as it was to learn git, the ease of pulling changes from one branch to another is nice [01:28:47] <stevel> elektronkind: part of the problem is what alanc just noted... the gate is still Sun controlled at the moment, and it's mirroured from inside->out. once we have the gate outside, then Sun can continue to do its thing on the side without affecting opensolaris.org [01:29:20] <alanc> with X.Org currently having 7.2 release candidates coming out of one branch, without slowing down development of new features for 7.3 on the master branch [01:29:30] <alanc> doing that with TeamWare would be painful [01:29:35] <richlowe> sigh. [01:29:44] <richlowe> stevel: as is obvious, I *really* hope that doesn't happen. [01:29:45] <richlowe> it's backwards. [01:30:06] <boyd> The outside-> inside is backwards? [01:30:25] <stevel> richlowe: by "do its thing on the side" i mean that the schedule of Sun's OpenSolaris distribution: Solaris won't dictate the pace of onnv-gate [01:30:35] <richlowe> boyd: maintaining a master gate that goes utterly nowhere, so that everyone else can branch from it. [01:30:48] <richlowe> it leaves you in a position where everything gets tested *except* the reference source. [01:30:51] <richlowe> and to be frank, fuck that. [01:30:58] <boyd> I can see your point.. [01:33:36] <stevel> but really guys, we're missing the more important point [01:33:41] <stevel> how can i get my hands on a type7 unix kb [01:33:58] <Auralis> call your local sun fixer and order one? [01:33:59] <alanc> let me go see if the Type 7 PC is in the lab [01:34:09] <alanc> do you need mouse too? [01:34:29] <Plaidrab> Which one is the type 7? [01:34:35] <stevel> alanc: if you have a spare one, sure. i'd love to replace this m$ one i'm using [01:34:42] <alanc> the one that came out late last year [01:34:47] <alanc> USB keyboard & wheel mouse [01:35:03] <Plaidrab> Ahhh [01:35:06] <alanc> okay - you upstairs if I find it? [01:35:14] <stevel> yup, in my office 3653 [01:35:16] <alanc> k [01:35:23] <stevel> many thanks [01:35:45] <Plaidrab> I don't think I've seen one of those in person yet. [01:36:31] <stevel> plaidrab: http://www.sun.com/desktop/index.jsp?tab=3 [01:38:48] <Plaidrab> I don't like the new cases. Not pretty! [01:39:43] <stevel> alanc rocks :) [01:40:11] <stevel> oooh. this is nice. [01:40:47] <jbk> they don't look that bad [01:40:56] <Error_404> Plaidrab, they remind me of the G5 powermac [01:40:57] <moazamraja> i'll trade u an Apple USB keyb+mouse for a Sun Type7 set :P [01:41:56] <alanc> heh - I replaced the Apple USB keyb+mouse on my iMac with Sun keyb & logitech mouse a long time ago [01:42:03] <moazamraja> :P [01:42:12] * Auralis hates mac keyboards and mice [01:42:20] <boyd> alanc: Did you ever come up with a way to get the sun keys to do anything useful? [01:42:29] <alanc> on the mac? no [01:42:34] <moazamraja> fine fine, i'll get u a 15% discount on yer next iMac/Mini/whatever for a Type7 set [01:42:35] <boyd> Bummer [01:42:45] <moazamraja> they sound keys work fine on the Mac [01:43:00] <moazamraja> and i *think* i was able to map the left hand row of keys on OS X...i dont remember now [01:43:02] <boyd> Yeah, it's the left function keys I want to customise [01:43:03] <Auralis> yes the sound keys work fine, power too [01:43:05] <alanc> moazamraja: I thought the Sun employee discount on Apple purchases was at least that high already? [01:43:12] <moazamraja> alanc: nope [01:43:18] <moazamraja> alanc: sun discount for apple is like 8-10% [01:43:37] <moazamraja> apple discount for hardware is 15% and 50% for software [01:43:50] <moazamraja> anytime u want something, lemme know, just meet me at the cupertino company store [01:43:51] <alanc> it's been too long since I ordered - just remember it was cheaper to buy through employee discount than any other prices I could find [01:44:01] <moazamraja> speaking of which..Flip Russell is on his way over at 5 [01:44:20] <moazamraja> alanc: i know the discount for Sun changed right before I left Sun [01:44:25] <moazamraja> it decreased [01:44:39] <Plaidrab> Bleah. Gimme an Excalibur anyday [01:44:49] <moazamraja> i was bummed...but then my wife works at apple, so no biggie...and then...i started working at apple, so i didnt care anymore anyways :) [01:45:10] <moazamraja> now I drool over the Sun hardware discount. Ironic isn't it?! [01:45:44] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC [01:48:13] <Plaidrab> Yeah. I miss it too [01:50:39] * Plaidrab is looking for a little diskpack or the like. Any recommendations on something old enough to be cheap? :) [01:51:12] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris [01:53:29] *** bondolo has quit IRC [01:54:44] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris [01:56:47] <coffman> buy some external ide disks [01:56:53] <coffman> firewire is fast :) [01:56:56] <coffman> or e-sata [01:57:38] *** simford has joined #OpenSolaris [01:59:51] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [02:00:06] <jmcp> morning all [02:01:00] <jbk> evening [02:01:46] <Plaidrab> You think that'll be cheaper than a D1000? [02:02:07] <Plaidrab> Though I don't think I can use firewire or e-sata with my U5 [02:02:45] <Auralis> but you can get a ohci/ehci compliant usb2 card, solaris 10 and later sol9 has drivers for that [02:06:29] <mbadaro> quick question please: I have a web page and I want the page to authenticate the user against the unix account. I want to do that programmatically. [02:06:36] <mbadaro> does it require to run an LDAP server on the unix box ? [02:07:33] <Plaidrab> no [02:08:56] <mlh> Plaidrab: how would you do it? mod_pam [02:08:57] <mlh> ? [02:09:25] <Plaidrab> Any of a number of ways. Flat file is fine [02:10:09] <Plaidrab> e really haven't specified a degree of paranoia yet. [02:10:24] <Plaidrab> 1996 web authentication methods may be adequate [02:11:21] <Plaidrab> And we don't know the target language, if he's wanting code. Jsp, perl, python, php.... [02:11:40] <coffman> Plaidrab: cheaper and faster via usb [02:12:09] <Plaidrab> I'm not concerned with speed. I want practice with zfs. [02:12:10] <coffman> just imagine how much power a d1000 sucks [02:12:25] <Plaidrab> I don't have to imagine. I still have them in my datacenter [02:12:27] <jbk> 1.21 jiggawatts? :) [02:12:38] <mlh> ? the question was to auth against the unix account [02:12:58] <jmcp> jbk: gigawatts or jigglywatts? [02:13:07] <mlh> i.e. not some random other flat file, but against /etc/passwd [02:13:32] <coffman> uh, take a usb hub and some usb-sticks [02:13:37] * coffman hides [02:13:38] <Plaidrab> I missed that part. Well, if you are authenticating against files in the nsswitch, you can code to verify the password. You just need, IIRC< the salt and crypt() [02:13:43] <jbk> not sure, can the latter power a flux capacitor? :) [02:14:11] <Plaidrab> : chuckles. I could do that, if Solaris recognizes my USB sticks [02:14:16] <mlh> well sure, but if you could use mod_pam, it'd be trivial [02:14:36] <Plaidrab> I've never done this particular task on Solaris. It might be harder [02:14:58] <jmcp> jbk: only if there's sufficient jiggly-ness :) [02:15:01] <mbadaro> how would I do it then? [02:15:49] <coffman> Plaidrab: i does not? [02:15:56] *** Kernel86|Laptop has quit IRC [02:16:11] <Plaidrab> What is your local authentication, mbadaro? [02:16:22] <coffman> did u only tried it whit fat formatet 1s? [02:17:04] <Plaidrab> coffman: I do not know. I have not yet installed Solaris on a USB capable machine where I had USB sticks [02:18:08] <Plaidrab> I haven't yet risked my main workstation. :) [02:19:14] <coffman> never had any problems with geting solaris 10 to see my usb stick [02:19:26] *** mlh has quit IRC [02:19:26] <coffman> problem was to mount the fat on it :) [02:19:36] *** bobbyz has quit IRC [02:22:21] <Plaidrab> :) [02:23:00] <coffman> solaris 10 is a bit "sensible" on fat [02:23:04] <Plaidrab> Worst case, I'll get a cheap oldish IDE and just ZFS up the slices [02:23:29] <coffman> while opensolaris works out of the box automounting [02:24:06] <coffman> Plaidrab: here in gemany u can get a usb with 200gb for 60 euros [02:24:11] <coffman> thats not that much [02:25:30] <Plaidrab> That's what? 100 bucks? More than it's worth [02:26:48] *** mlh has joined #opensolaris [02:34:34] *** esaxe has joined #opensolaris [02:37:26] <stevel> anyone going to the SVOSUG meeting tonight? [02:37:30] <moazamraja> me [02:37:34] * moazamraja raises hand [02:37:48] <moazamraja> power management..ehh...but...i hear the free food is awesome. [02:37:58] <jbk> <-- snowed in [02:38:05] * stevel raises his eyebrows [02:38:07] <stevel> free food? [02:38:08] <moazamraja> heheh [02:38:11] <jbk> (and a thousands miles away, give or take) [02:38:12] <moazamraja> yeaaaaah ;) [02:38:49] <moazamraja> ok ok fine [02:38:52] <moazamraja> no free food [02:38:57] <moazamraja> but they have water and sodas [02:39:01] <stevel> okay [02:39:03] <stevel> you had me confused [02:39:04] <moazamraja> i just go cuz I miss the SCA campus [02:39:22] <Plaidrab> Where were you? [02:39:25] <moazamraja> SCA [02:39:27] <moazamraja> 17 [02:39:32] <Plaidrab> <-SCA19, 1203 [02:39:47] <Plaidrab> But not for a very log time, sadly [02:39:48] <moazamraja> i dont remember my office number...i never even knew it the 6 years i was at sun :/ [02:39:59] <moazamraja> i quit like 9-10 months ago [02:40:06] <Plaidrab> Rif victim. heh [02:40:11] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [02:40:16] <moazamraja> i kinda wish i had gotten riffed! [02:40:21] <moazamraja> at least I woulda gotten a package then [02:40:22] <alanc> I have my office number written on my white board for when I need to know it [02:40:29] <Plaidrab> No you don't. [02:40:38] <Plaidrab> I had to stock shelves at target to feed the kids. [02:40:46] <moazamraja> alanc: damn...that's what i shoulda done..i always got up and looked when I had to tell someone on the phone [02:40:49] *** kupfer has joined #opensolaris [02:40:49] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o kupfer [02:40:50] <moazamraja> youch [02:40:50] <stevel> alanc: that's smart. i always get up to read the sign outside my office [02:40:52] <Plaidrab> I'm so hopelessly out of date I can only get government work [02:40:53] <moazamraja> yeah, i have 0 kids :P [02:41:06] <alanc> yeah, I did that for a while, then got lazy [02:41:07] <moazamraja> and...i'm pretty up to date...i thikn [02:41:22] <Plaidrab> I had to have stuff sjipped to me, so I had to know my whole address [02:41:38] <moazamraja> i knew my mailstop info real well [02:41:45] <moazamraja> since i got EVERYTHING shipped to work [02:41:46] <Plaidrab> Heh [02:41:51] <alanc> oh, for shipping address, I just keep one of my business cards by my monitor 8-) [02:42:23] <Plaidrab> Well, that too. But I was one of the WBAY-E/B support guys, so when you blew up your monitor or somethign, the replacement came to my office [02:42:32] <Plaidrab> Man. I really miss having a door. [02:42:36] <moazamraja> i was so enamored with the Apple cafeteria when I first left Sun, but that lasted all of like...2 visits [02:42:53] <moazamraja> my office is actually bigger here than the Sun office, which is damn wierd [02:42:56] <Plaidrab> The SCA one wasn't bad. It did get old after a while, but [02:43:03] *** delewis has joined #opensolaris [02:43:08] <moazamraja> SCA campus, the coffee lady was great [02:43:11] <jbk> offices?!? [02:43:14] <moazamraja> Lucy, made a wicked cup o' chai [02:43:19] <Plaidrab> I'm in a (*&)& cube farm now. It is so hard to work with all the damned noise [02:43:47] <moazamraja> i swear to you, I have had NIGHTMARES that I am in cube farm, with a 15" monitor, and wearing a white shirt+tie [02:43:53] <moazamraja> thats the whole nightmare [02:44:02] <Plaidrab> I don't have to wear a white shirt [02:44:16] <moazamraja> i'm just sitting there, in a cube, white shirt, tie, staring at 14"-15" monitor... [02:44:59] <Plaidrab> I actually look forward to covering the holidays because it's quiet and I can get work done [02:45:12] <alanc> wow, I remember having local support staff/sysadmins [02:45:15] <jbk> that it one nice thing, we can get away with t-shirts & jeans (which for a place not on the west coast, is somewhat unusual), even if i am in acube farm [02:45:25] <alanc> now you just call India for everything [02:45:32] <Plaidrab> Oh, that's right, they reorged those guys out of the building, didn't they [02:45:41] <alanc> print server down in your building? call India... [02:46:23] <Plaidrab> : was part of the team that handled the iPlanet side of the house. It hadn't been ( assuming it ever was ) absorbed into swan yet. [02:46:33] <delewis> alanc, don't tell me Sun has out-sourced their IT department [02:46:48] <Plaidrab> Why not. They outsourced the networking at one point [02:46:49] <jbk> heh one of my friends often complains that they screw up his workstation without notice [02:46:52] <alanc> parts of it are, others are just managed remotely [02:47:08] <jbk> and he tends to run very long (multi-day) hardware simulations [02:47:19] <stevel> anyone going to SVOSUG: kupfer, esaxe, and i are planning on grabbing dinner at Piatti (italian restaurant in the rivermark shopping complex near the Sun campus) @ 6:30 [02:47:37] <moazamraja> 6:30...god damn...i dont even get off my slave driver job until 7pm :/ [02:47:40] <stevel> moazamraja, or anyone else going: join us for dinner if you're free :) [02:47:41] <moazamraja> oh well [02:47:43] <Plaidrab> How did Rivermark turn out? We thought about getting a house there when it was in planning [02:47:52] <stevel> http://www.piatti.com/santaclara/ [02:48:01] <moazamraja> stevel: i'll try to swing by..see if i can skip out early maybe [02:48:42] <stevel> k. look for the 3 of us [02:48:50] <stevel> if you remember what any of us look like :-P [02:48:55] <Plaidrab> hee [02:48:58] <esaxe> stevel, we should head down there :) [02:49:11] <stevel> esaxe: yeah, i'm finishing up some stuff - i'm going to try to leave in around 10 mins [02:49:22] <kupfer> ditto [02:49:33] <kupfer> well, maybe 5 minutes [02:49:50] *** bobbyz has joined #opensolaris [02:49:58] <stevel> moazamraja: http://flickr.com/photos/57234581@N00/230694000/ [02:50:05] *** kupfer has left #opensolaris [02:50:07] <stevel> kupfer and i, if you need assistance locating us :) [02:50:21] <stevel> wow. flickr is cool :) [02:50:24] <esaxe> i'm not coming back this way, so i'll probably drive separate... [02:50:31] <stevel> esaxe: me too, i'm heading straight home [02:50:35] <stevel> so i think all 3 of us are driving separate :) [02:50:44] <esaxe> lovely. See you guys there [02:50:48] <stevel> see you in a bit [02:50:52] <moazamraja> stevel: yeah, i've seen you before at SVOSUG, where you talked about Mercurial [02:51:23] <richlowe> stevel is the one with a disembodied hand slapping him. [02:51:48] <stevel> disembodied only due to cropping [02:52:01] <boyd> hehe... Thing strikes back :) [02:52:01] <dwc> but a lovely hand it is [02:52:37] <stevel> :) [02:53:01] <Gman_> is the meeting worth dialing into today? [02:53:10] <Gman_> i don't think i understood half of the previous one [02:53:23] <hile_> like the actual voices or the subject matter? ;) [02:53:42] <Gman_> it's always the subject matter for me ;) [02:53:45] <esaxe> see you there... [02:53:50] <Gman_> i'm a userspace weener. [02:54:13] <richlowe> Gman_: I'm going to wait for someone else to try and see if they complain about the line quality :) [02:54:28] <Gman_> hey, i spoke up! [02:54:45] * boyd tried with skype last time and couldn' [02:54:46] <richlowe> yeah, the last couple of times it's just been an awful connection though. [02:54:51] <richlowe> and whatever the hell the dial tone noise was. [02:54:53] <alanc> they'll tell you why suspend-and-resume is cool, but that you won't be able to run it on your laptop [02:54:54] * boyd tried with skype last time and couldn't hear the talking [02:55:03] <Gman_> alanc, oh, really? [02:55:10] <boyd> alanc: I think I must have read that wrongly [02:55:13] <moazamraja> haha [02:55:13] <richlowe> alanc: because it suspends, and then it resumes? [02:55:14] <Gman_> richlowe, people need to learn how to mute [02:55:26] * richlowe can't think of where else to go with that, other than internals. [02:55:32] *** pacx has joined #opensolaris [02:55:41] <alanc> because the drivers are all going to need to implement the suspend & resume hooks [02:55:56] <richlowe> They're supposed to do so currently. [02:56:03] <boyd> I thought there were already such hooks... DDI_SUSPEND/RESUME [02:56:05] <alanc> which is where the community comes in - you want it on *your* laptop, help put the hooks into the drivers for it [02:56:06] <boyd> Ah [02:56:16] * richlowe has no laptop. [02:56:17] <richlowe> so nyeh! [02:56:25] * richlowe never thought those sentences would go together [02:56:26] <alanc> right - they exists, but lots of x86 drivers didn't bother implementing it [02:56:35] <alanc> now they have to [02:56:38] * boyd may have been the only person in the world who liked the idea of cprboot on SPARC [02:56:52] <richlowe> boyd: I've only ever triggered it by mistake. [02:56:55] <Gman_> alanc, that's ok [02:56:58] <richlowe> and it's only ever actually worked for me the once, even then. [02:56:59] <boyd> richlowe: :) [02:57:00] <Gman_> hell [02:57:09] <alanc> and for graphics devices, that means creating new drivers in the kernel for each chipset/card, instead of just the userspace Xorg drivers [02:57:12] <Gman_> i'd probably even write the code for this laptop myself if i knew how :) [02:57:17] <richlowe> boyd: nothing like hitting sleep on an aging sparcstation and watching the world collapse around you. [02:57:28] <boyd> alanc: gah! Can't be genericised? [02:57:32] *** benr has joined #opensolaris [02:57:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o benr [02:57:54] <Stric> it probably has to re-initialize the card (like the bios did) [02:58:05] * boyd nods... [02:58:19] <boyd> It's be nice to be able to call back to Xorg.. [02:58:20] <alanc> nah, each graphics chipset maker has their own set of registers to poke on suspend/resume and different data to save to RAM/disk on suspend and then restore to VRAM on resume [02:58:21] *** dr1024 has joined #opensolaris [02:58:52] * boyd rolls his eyes [02:58:55] <richlowe> boyd: push bits into the kernel, and maybe Xorg will be able to keep its fingers out of places it shouldn't be. [02:58:58] <richlowe> and then everyone wins. [02:59:04] <boyd> True [02:59:10] <alanc> so far, they've done two (ati rage XL & es-1000, the two on the motherboards of Ultra 20 & U20M2) and worked with nvidia to put the bits into the nvidia driver [02:59:23] <boyd> Then push the whole freakin' thing in, not just parts :) [02:59:43] <stevel> okay time for me to run [02:59:50] *** stevel has quit IRC [03:00:03] <alanc> the beauty of userspace Xorg is we get to share drivers between all the OS'es, and not have to write them for each kernel [03:00:25] <alanc> the downside of course being Xorg doing things that nothing outside the kernel ever should [03:00:58] <dr1024> Anyone had any success installing Solaris 10 Express Community Release Build 52 in VMWare Workstation v5.3.3? [03:01:04] <alanc> like say, setting the x86 I/O privilege level [03:02:24] <alanc> oh that's scary - I googled for XVR-100 docs, and www.cobaltmicro.com came up higher than sun.com [03:04:00] <alanc> wow - when did OBP get command line editing? [03:04:10] <alanc> or have I just not been paying attention? [03:04:22] *** razrX has quit IRC [03:04:23] <boyd> The latter, I think [03:04:30] <jbk> well, i know ctrl-p/ctrl-n have worked for a while [03:04:31] *** slowhog has quit IRC [03:04:42] <coffman> have to be there for a while [03:04:48] <coffman> like 4 years min [03:05:23] *** printk has quit IRC [03:05:41] <Plaidrab> dr1024: no. I was told it's not yet sypported [03:06:15] *** razrX has joined #opensolaris [03:09:01] *** bengtf has quit IRC [03:11:10] <mbadaro> LDAP runs on top of /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow ? [03:11:25] <boyd> On top of? [03:11:36] <Stric> /etc/passwd&shadow is one way of having users.. LDAP is another [03:11:45] <Stric> so.. "next to" [03:11:55] <boyd> You mean in addition to? Yes... it's configured with /etc/nsswitch.conf [03:13:46] *** razrX has quit IRC [03:15:06] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris [03:18:30] *** razrX has joined #opensolaris [03:19:11] *** benr has quit IRC [03:21:54] <dr1024> PLaidrab: I have Solaris 10 Update 2 running fine in a VM - even the graphical installer worked without a hitch. [03:22:18] *** pacx has left #opensolaris [03:28:53] *** razrX_ has joined #opensolaris [03:29:30] *** razrX has quit IRC [03:35:39] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [03:38:24] *** mbadaro has quit IRC [03:41:10] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC [03:41:48] <regx_home> dr1024, high five for using OSOL [03:42:08] <regx_home> install some zones and see how it runs [03:43:02] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris [03:48:05] <dr1024> regx_home: I'm 90% through a text install on Build 52 [03:48:20] <regx_home> coo [03:48:39] <regx_home> hmm [03:48:44] <regx_home> for some reason [03:48:46] <regx_home> nm [03:52:26] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [04:07:58] *** vmhobbes has quit IRC [04:10:00] <dr1024> Build 52 - installs fine *only* if you use the text installer. Graphical installer hangs [04:10:14] <dr1024> with VMWare Workstation [04:16:37] *** dunc has quit IRC [04:25:54] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [04:30:25] *** sickness has quit IRC [04:30:49] *** sickness has joined #opensolaris [04:41:14] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris [04:48:09] *** Kush- has joined #opensolaris [04:48:24] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [04:52:48] *** b0on has joined #opensolaris [04:55:48] *** b0on has quit IRC [04:56:33] *** b0on has joined #opensolaris [04:57:15] <printk> where does one get the nightly ON builds? maybe I've become retard but I cannot find them for the life of me [04:57:49] <dr1024> printk: Try http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/ [04:58:50] <b0on> anyone here have anything against linux? [04:59:07] <printk> dr1024: ah ok i see, so i need the bfu archive correct? [04:59:12] <printk> i was thinking it was something different [05:00:45] <printk> thanks [05:00:48] <Kitty> b0on: yes, currently 3 large bricks, and a small slab of concrete [05:00:48] <printk> that's it [05:01:21] <b0on> Kitty: .. thought i was rid of you people [05:01:34] <Kitty> no, I am an IRC whore with 114 irc channels open [05:01:54] *** dwc has quit IRC [05:02:00] *** dwc__ has joined #opensolaris [05:02:10] <b0on> ah ok [05:02:49] <Kitty> and without wanting to sound childish [05:02:50] <Kitty> I was here first [05:03:19] <b0on> ok [05:03:58] <dr1024> Linux is OK just as long as you run it in a zone ;-)) [05:04:05] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris [05:04:30] *** bobbyz has quit IRC [05:04:33] <b0on> ah yes.. zones [05:04:51] <dwc__> oh boy, this debate again [05:05:20] *** dwc__ is now known as dwc- [05:05:30] <b0on> what debate is that [05:05:49] <dwc-> sorry, I use the term "debate" loosely [05:06:03] <b0on> meh.. everyone is entitled to their oppinion [05:06:06] <dwc-> I have nothing against linux [05:06:16] <b0on> but.. speaking of zones.. [05:06:27] <b0on> ok.. well.. i need some quick help. [05:06:38] <dwc-> shoot [05:06:52] <b0on> cool thanks [05:07:00] <b0on> i just did a SOl 10 install [05:07:19] <b0on> need to get gcc and make running on the system.. is Studio 11 the best way [05:07:37] <dwc-> make should be in /usr/ccs/bin already [05:07:50] <b0on> dwc.. can i just export that to my path% [05:07:59] <b0on> s/path%/path$ [05:08:04] <dwc-> and, gcc is probably in /usr/sfw/bin [05:08:14] <dwc-> yes, you can [05:08:23] <b0on> muy excellente [05:08:26] <b0on> #2. [05:08:35] <b0on> i need to implement a ZFS with 100 zones [05:08:40] <coffman> b0on: gmake its called [05:08:43] <dwc-> if not, the "best" way might be the one that saves you the most trouble... which would be blastwave (pkg-get) [05:08:59] <b0on> however, i didn't do this from the installer.. can i adjust the /export/home ? [05:09:06] <dwc-> ah yes, if you need gnu make, it's in /usr/sfw/bin too [05:09:07] <dwc-> as gmake [05:09:22] <b0on> coffman.. excellent [05:09:25] <b0on> thanks you [05:09:52] <dwc-> you could put zfs on any slice, if you want to resize your existing /export/home that works [05:10:01] <dwc-> you could also feel safe nuking it entirely and reformatting it zfs [05:10:05] <b0on> meaning.. i didn't leave any room for a ZFS partition.. [05:10:10] <b0on> excellent [05:10:19] <b0on> finally getting somewhere [05:10:58] <b0on> ok.. the apache that is installed by default.. and the init scripts are under init.d .. i take it this is apache1 ? is there any way i can get rid of that .. i need apache2 or.. is this a combo apach1/2/and tomcat [05:11:01] <dwc-> 'format' will let you change the slices around if you like [05:11:03] <b0on> i don't quite understand that setup [05:11:36] <dwc-> pkginfo, pkgrm, are useful for that [05:11:39] <b0on> sorry for taking up your time.. kind of crashing into this whole thing.. deadlines.. sales guys.. and i'm the admin .. [05:11:48] <b0on> gothca [05:11:55] <b0on> and i can deinstall that just as easily [05:12:13] <dwc-> if it's /etc/init.d/apache, it's apache 1.x [05:12:16] <dwc-> if it's /etc/init.d/apache2, it's apache 2.x [05:12:17] <b0on> is there any sort of XAMPP that is with recent binaries that i can use [05:12:33] <dwc-> you can look at /usr/apache{,2} if you want to see where the files end up [05:12:47] <b0on> excellent.. i don't think there is any reason to keep apache1 around.. there are no libraries needed by some random os function that i'm forgetting [05:12:51] <dwc-> I've never used xampp [05:13:05] <coffman> b0on: for the export/home thing look at this : http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2005/02/youre-never-far-from-home.html [05:13:22] <dwc-> oh yea... svcadm disable autofs [05:13:49] <coffman> nooo [05:14:01] <dwc-> yesssssss [05:14:05] <coffman> b0on: apache2 is managed via smf [05:14:27] <b0on> smf? [05:14:40] <b0on> crap.. thats a new term [05:15:25] <coffman> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/selfheal/smf-quickstart.html [05:15:39] <coffman> Service Management Facility [05:16:00] <coffman> replacement for init.d [05:16:03] *** nachox has quit IRC [05:16:40] <dwc-> more like a replacement for rc*.d .... [05:16:43] *** bobbyz has joined #opensolaris [05:16:44] <b0on> ah.. i didn't install taht [05:16:50] <dwc-> you get it for free [05:16:51] *** vmhobbes has joined #OpenSolaris [05:16:57] <dwc-> it's installed [05:17:22] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away [05:17:38] <b0on> hmm.. i didn't see it installed [05:18:00] <b0on> could've sworn the bigadmin was an add/l d/l [05:18:24] <dwc-> man svcs [05:18:27] <dwc-> and man svcadm [05:18:55] <b0on> holy crap.. i've got a good linux background.. but i am way freaking in over my head for a 24 hr deadline [05:19:52] <b0on> and the bigadmin portal is installed right on a default install? [05:19:58] <b0on> is this the whole portal? [05:20:12] <coffman> aeh [05:20:13] <dwc-> err, bigadmin's just a bunch of webpages [05:20:23] <b0on> kinda like webmin? [05:20:28] <dwc-> no [05:20:38] <dwc-> it's documentation on sun's webpage [05:20:58] <b0on> ok.. gotcha.. [05:21:03] <b0on> sorry [05:21:12] <b0on> its late.. i'm getting fuzzy.. i'm back on track now [05:21:15] <b0on> sorry about that [05:21:20] <b0on> so thats why ssh isn't in the init.d [05:21:21] <b0on> anymore [05:21:27] <dwc-> yea [05:22:39] *** sickness has quit IRC [05:22:47] <b0on> ok.. well thanks guys.. the biggest question i had was the paths to the gcc , gmake and the zfs slicew [05:22:58] <b0on> i don't suppose anyone has done any work with directadmin and solaris [05:22:59] *** Gman_ is now known as GmanAFK [05:23:16] <dwc-> glossing over a bit, your init.d scripts are now in /lib/svc/method/ [05:23:34] <richlowe> that's glossing over rather a lot, but yeah. [05:23:45] <dwc-> but you shouldn't call them directly [05:23:52] <b0on> call them through the smf [05:24:09] <dwc-> right. I'm just pointing out where they are in case they need editing [05:24:10] <b0on> er.. svc [05:24:16] <b0on> gotcah [05:24:24] *** sickness has joined #opensolaris [05:24:27] <b0on> i guess i got confused when i saw that apache was still in the init.d [05:24:38] <b0on> and also had some stuff about tomcat with it.. [05:24:39] <dwc-> that's stuff that hasn't been migrated [05:24:53] * dwc- points at the README in /etc/init.d [05:25:15] <b0on> anywebsites that would offer the best tips? [05:25:30] <b0on> starting at the .. oh crap.. they want this when? level [05:25:30] <dwc-> docs.sun.com and bigadmin are pretty good [05:25:41] <b0on> excellent [05:25:46] <dwc-> why solaris on short notice? [05:25:56] <b0on> i guess when this is all done i need to spend some time with filesystem(5) [05:26:06] <dwc-> I'm sure you didn't make the decision, but that seems not very risk-averse [05:26:27] *** printk has quit IRC [05:27:15] <b0on> why solaris.. well we have three Sparc boxes and two aren't being used.. I've read a lot of great things about Solaris and want to get to know it better, more so than just installing an app, and running it.. [05:27:52] <b0on> the other .. is the deadline was due a while back.. and i was inundated with a ton of other tasks.. and then thanksgiving.. [05:28:13] <dwc-> on 24h notice, I'd be more inclined to push for temporarily, using a system I'm familiar with [05:28:28] <dwc-> but I suppose on sparc, solaris is your best option [05:28:52] <b0on> dwc-: that may happen.. but .. i work well under pressure.. i know some things.. just need to put all the pieces together in my head so i know how to query google.. [05:29:37] <b0on> that.. and i had to fight to use Solaris a little bit.. but with what we're trying to do.. its the best fit.. and i want to do it right from the get go [05:30:13] <dwc-> fair enough [05:30:20] <b0on> i mean.. ZFS is freaking sweet... and the private zones will allow us to do exactly what we need to do.... i want to learn more about the N1 Grid stuff [05:30:36] <b0on> dwc-: you and coffman have helped a freaking ton [05:30:39] <b0on> thanks so much [05:31:39] <dwc-> no prob [05:32:24] <coffman> np [05:32:37] <coffman> b0on: u request kick in #solaris [05:32:44] <coffman> i can understand that [05:32:49] <b0on> ya.. they were a bunch of jerks [05:33:17] <b0on> sorry.. i shouldn't say that.. should say they were unpleasant [05:34:02] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [05:34:11] <coffman> they have to use very old operating systems [05:34:39] <coffman> on machines that need very long to boot [05:34:48] <coffman> i better stop now :) [05:35:24] <b0on> heh.. i have love for all operatings systems.. they started to badger me a little when i said that i thought linux could exist in an enterprise environment.. then it all went to hell [05:37:04] *** mercykiller has quit IRC [05:37:17] <b0on> well anywho.. thanks again [05:37:22] *** dr1024 has quit IRC [05:37:27] *** b0on has quit IRC [05:41:19] <printk> woo hoo ON is upgraded, now to upgrade JDS [05:41:36] *** laca has quit IRC [05:44:29] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [05:44:38] <dwc-> linux does exist in an enterprise environment [05:44:51] <dwc-> anyone who says otherwise is basically deluding themselves [05:45:08] <richlowe> or working somewhere unusual. [05:45:20] <printk> indeed [05:45:27] <printk> Linux pays my bills now :) [05:46:08] <printk> do i think it's the greates os? no [05:46:24] <dwc-> oh well, I guess not everyone's heard of that new search engine yet... I think google was its name [05:46:34] <printk> haha [05:46:42] <Error_404> isn't yahoo a primarily freebsd shop? [05:47:15] <dwc-> it was at one point... I don't know about now [05:47:21] <printk> I do alot of contract work for American Airlines, ALOT of their servers that control things from electronc tickets to navigation etc etc is run on Linux [05:47:32] <printk> but honestly they do have more Solaris machines, but there is a good amount of Linux there. [05:47:33] <delewis> there's a distinction that needs to be made between "enterprise-ready" and "existing in the enterprise" [05:47:42] <dwc-> so it's your shit that tells me there's flights from sjc to tpe [05:47:43] <dwc-> but none coming back! [05:47:45] <printk> delewis: true :) [05:47:56] <printk> dwc-: heh i don't do the application programming :) [05:47:57] *** Kush- has quit IRC [05:48:02] <jamesd> dwc-, so does windows, no one says the enterprise is smart [05:48:03] <delewis> the assumption that enterprises only implement enterprise-grade operating systems is obviously false. [05:48:10] <delewis> (look at the number of Windows deloyments) [05:48:48] <dwc-> indeed james, I was commenting on something said before you joined [05:49:12] <delewis> dwc-, which is something that originated in #solaris, which b0on mis-quoted several statements I made. [05:50:46] <dwc-> well, then I guess you have to make up some arbitrary definition of what "enterprise-grade" and "enterprise-ready" means [05:51:00] <richlowe> "Whatever better suits by bias" [05:51:02] <richlowe> :) [05:51:05] <richlowe> s/by/my/ [05:51:06] <richlowe> damn. [05:51:13] <printk> as cliche as it is to denounce windows, it still holds true. Everytime i see a new production deployment of a windows server, problems upon problems arise. And boy does that OS like to go down alot [05:51:16] <coffman> gah [05:51:29] <coffman> google will migrate to opensolaris [05:51:40] <delewis> dwc-, absolutely. [05:51:41] <delewis> :-) [05:51:45] <Error_404> coffman: what makes you think that? [05:51:48] <printk> we'll see :) [05:51:54] <printk> Error_404: they are doing some tests using it [05:51:56] <dwc-> maybe he has insider information [05:52:04] <Error_404> yeah, but google tests a lot of stuff [05:52:26] <coffman> rumors tell me that [05:52:52] <coffman> and very loud "we dont comment such stuff" [05:53:02] <dwc-> delewis: one of the top 60 websites on the internet, runs on linux and mysql, with yes, MyISAM tables. [05:53:22] <dwc-> and pulls in at least $10m/month [05:53:31] <dwc-> but I'd still say myisam isn't enterprise ready, really [05:54:12] <dwc-> but, if you consider that a fairly successful enterprise (# of employees is pretty low), then it's enterprise ready [06:12:35] *** Kernel86_ has joined #OpenSolaris [06:13:27] *** printk has quit IRC [06:15:49] *** gm152 has quit IRC [06:18:26] *** coffman has quit IRC [06:20:54] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [06:23:03] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC [06:28:21] <bobbyz> hey, I've got a quick zfs question: is it okay to turn compression on for a zfs filesystem after data has been written to it? The documentation makes it sound like any of the settings can be changed on the fly, but I wanted to check. Second, if yes to the first question, will the pre-existing data be compressed, or only newly-recorded data? [06:28:39] <elektronkind> yes, and no. [06:28:44] <jbk> yes, and only existing data [06:28:49] <jbk> err new data [06:28:52] <jbk> ggahh [06:28:53] <elektronkind> existing data is not compressed [06:28:57] <jbk> my brain is shutting down [06:29:00] <bobbyz> elektronkind and jbk, thanks :) [06:29:01] <elektronkind> heh [06:29:22] <elektronkind> tar it off, tar it back on if you want it compressed [06:29:40] <twincest> there's a cpio one liner to do it in place somewhere [06:29:57] <jbk> most of the settings dealing with how it stores data are only going to affect new block [06:30:00] <elektronkind> or if you have the space, work up a script that copies each file to a tmp name, rm's the old, and mv's it back [06:30:19] <elektronkind> or listen to the wisdom of twincest [06:30:35] <bobbyz> hehe, I'll google around for the one-liner [06:31:30] <printk> I'd really like to switch to zfs on my opensolaris box here... [06:31:33] <printk> i need to do some reading [06:31:45] * elektronkind watches the warnings spew as he compiles php 5.2.0 with studio 11 [06:32:21] <Error_404> php's bad code? go figgure [06:32:47] <bobbyz> heh [06:32:48] <elektronkind> heh. test-compiling your code with at least -Wall ? nah, too much effort. [06:33:17] <Error_404> no, if you do that it spews warnings all over the place [06:33:36] <Error_404> the fix for those bugs are to remove -Wall from the make file [06:33:44] <elektronkind> oh right [06:34:23] <twincest> i find it unlikely that compiling with gcc -Wall would make studio be quiet [06:34:42] <twincest> they have different warnings [06:35:14] <jbk> why not just comment out the lines that generate warnings instead? [06:35:15] <jbk> :) [06:35:22] <jbk> eventually, it'll compile clean [06:35:31] <elektronkind> "/local/src/php-5.2.0/main/main.c", line 1710: warning: implicit function declaration: open [06:35:38] <elektronkind> I mean, c'mon [06:37:36] <bobbyz> I haven't programmed in a long time, but isn't that a matter of not explicitly including some of the standard header files? [06:37:44] <elektronkind> pretty much [06:37:59] <twincest> or test on linux where open comes from somewhere else that it doesnt' in solaris [06:38:10] <elektronkind> it's not like open() is exotic or anything [06:38:15] <richlowe> more likely is that linux leaks open()'s prototype into some other header. [06:38:21] <richlowe> (or someone is just really really sloppy) [06:40:46] <Error_404> if this "SAMP" thing is gonna work out... someone out to add dtrace probes to PHP [06:41:23] <steleman> Error_404: there is already a PHP dtrace probe [06:41:27] <elektronkind> Error_404: http://cvs.php.net/viewvc.cgi/pecl/dtrace/ [06:41:30] <Error_404> fantastic! [06:41:41] <Tpenta> i thought that had been done [06:41:44] <steleman> and yeah i'll put it in there [06:42:15] <Error_404> steleman: you'll put what in where? [06:42:26] <steleman> the PHP dtrace probe [06:42:31] <twincest> s/test/testing [06:42:43] <Error_404> put it in where? [06:42:52] <Error_404> PHP? it's already there i hear [06:43:04] <richlowe> Error_404: steleman works on either SFW or the CCD (I forget) [06:43:09] <Error_404> oh, i see [06:43:17] <elektronkind> heh [06:43:18] <elektronkind> static void (*ye_olde_execute_internal) [06:43:18] <Error_404> can I have dtrace in postgres, in that case? [06:43:21] <steleman> richlowe: something like that :-) [06:43:27] <Error_404> it's there... but not in sfw [06:43:38] <Tpenta> Error_404: that's also being worked on [06:43:41] <twincest> ccd for php is a funny idea, how many days would it be useful before it needs an upgrade for the latest security issue? :) [06:43:42] <richlowe> so here's a handy hint. [06:43:49] <richlowe> builds finish *way* faster if you remember to kick them off. [06:43:53] <steleman> nah SAMP wont be on the CCD [06:44:02] * richlowe just waited an hour for a build, that turned out to be waiting on me hitting return [06:44:08] * jbk grins [06:44:10] * steleman snorts [06:44:14] <Tpenta> builds of ON also finish quicker if you define CW_NO_SHADOW [06:46:02] <steleman> http://68.173.45.234/phpinfo.php [06:46:11] <steleman> http://68.173.45.234/sparc/phpinfo.php [06:46:34] <twincest> /usr/gnu? [06:46:42] <steleman> that's just temporary [06:46:45] <twincest> ah [06:46:47] <steleman> it won't be in /usr/gnu [06:46:48] <richlowe> Tpenta: can't do that all the time though. [06:46:54] <richlowe> though this one, yeah. [06:46:59] <richlowe> the next one, no. [06:47:05] <richlowe> I'll need your -nd bins, too I guess. [06:49:11] <printk> hrm, /dev/dks/c0d0 is first controller first IDE disk correct? I wonder why opensolaris thinks my SATA drives are ide [06:49:42] <printk> /dev/dsk/c0d0p0 i meant [06:49:53] <twincest> no, not the first IDE disk, the first disk with no target (luns), afaik [06:50:30] <printk> oh ok [06:50:58] <richlowe> c<controller>(t<target>)?d<disk>s<slice> [06:52:16] <twincest> although it's possible your SATA clllr runs in IDE compatible mode [06:53:58] <printk> Dec 1 05:16:18 bubble scsi: [ID 193665 kern.info] sd0 at ata1: target 0 lun 0 [06:54:06] <printk> I'm assuming this means it is actually seeing it as SATA? [06:54:32] *** jmcp has quit IRC [07:00:33] <elektronkind> dear lord [07:00:34] <elektronkind> [root@lithium]/>pldd `pgrep -u root httpd` | wc -l [07:00:35] <elektronkind> 95 [07:01:19] <jbk> what happens if you do | sort | uniq | wc -l [07:01:20] <jbk> ? [07:02:00] <elektronkind> nothing [07:02:05] <elektronkind> I mean, no change [07:02:16] <jbk> so only one httpd process? [07:02:17] <elektronkind> the shared so's are only loaded once... [07:02:59] <elektronkind> I have many, those are just final tally of shared objects that are loaded by one httpd process [07:03:18] <elektronkind> hence the 'pgrep -u root httpd' [07:03:21] <jbk> well i was wonde3ring if pldd was doing that for each httpd process (assuming it was forking) [07:03:29] <jbk> ahh true [07:06:02] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris [07:07:53] *** printk has quit IRC [07:08:02] <elektronkind> steleman: that phpinfo output is pretty mighty [07:08:50] <steleman> ty [07:08:55] <steleman> i didnt write php :-) [07:09:00] <Error_404> why not? [07:09:07] <Error_404> lazyass... [07:09:12] <steleman> haha [07:09:21] <steleman> im just not that much of a webby guy [07:09:32] *** bougie has joined #opensolaris [07:12:05] <steleman> the apc caching engine makes a huge performance difference [07:12:06] *** hell` has quit IRC [07:12:34] *** hell` has joined #opensolaris [07:13:29] <elektronkind> I'm using eaccellerator here [07:13:46] <steleman> i built that one too but to me it seemed apc was faster [07:14:01] <elektronkind> I'll have to give apc a shot [07:17:59] <dwc-> hah. eaccellerator [07:18:35] <dwc-> at one point, we had a shell script called eaccelerator_is_a_piece_of_shit that ran as a cronjob to restart it, because it kept dying [07:19:15] <steleman> dwc: did it also send an email to the author every time it crashed ? "your piece of shit crashed again. fix it." [07:19:31] <steleman> :-) [07:20:57] <elektronkind> heh. I run it as a zend extension [07:21:01] <elektronkind> seems ok [07:21:12] <jbk> heh [07:21:20] <jbk> i once did something like that with a backup issue [07:21:42] <elektronkind> anything helps on this ultra2 server of mine that also doing 10 brazillian other things [07:21:45] <jbk> as we have a separate group that does nothing but focus on backups [07:22:07] <jbk> but on one server, it kept spitting an email every 5 minutes, 24/7 to root (which then came to me) [07:22:20] <jbk> but the message wasn't particularly obvious what it was complaining about [07:22:26] <jbk> and they wouldn't give me an answer [07:22:40] <jbk> so i just setup a rule to automatically forward those emails to their distribution list [07:22:50] <jbk> they became more responsive after that :) [07:23:53] <dwc-> forwarding cron spam to those responsible for it usually makes it go away faster [07:23:59] *** dlynes_laptop has joined #opensolaris [07:24:20] <jbk> it did [07:24:25] <steleman> when i was in grad school there was a prof in the geology dept who kept stripping his kernel [07:24:35] <steleman> and then would call us and complain his box crashed [07:25:10] <steleman> so we renamed all his files and directories to original name + 2 spaces [07:25:12] <elektronkind> he thought it took up too much space? [07:25:16] <jbk> hahahha [07:25:19] <elektronkind> hehe [07:25:26] <jbk> devious [07:25:29] <jbk> i like it :) [07:25:51] <dwc-> he must not have had tab completion [07:25:55] <steleman> we didnt know what he was trying to do [07:26:07] <elektronkind> that's a bit more clever than putting "You have new mail." at the bottom of your .plan [07:26:26] <dwc-> you don't put xterm escape sequences in your .plan? [07:26:38] <elektronkind> ooh good idea. [07:26:49] <elektronkind> too bad no one uses finger anymore [07:26:52] <dwc-> change the name of their title bar or something [07:27:05] <dwc-> not true [07:27:11] <elektronkind> I keep a .plan around for posterity. complete with pgp key and geek code. [07:28:09] <jbk> hmm that gave me an idea... [07:28:13] <elektronkind> ok, fist person shooter developers seem to have had a .plan/finger love afair for a while. that was funny. [07:29:01] <elektronkind> with ".plan aggregators" so you can keep up with all the latest news from your favorite devs [07:29:17] <jbk> a friend of mine used to create a symlink to /bin/ksh or such but with a phrase for the name i.e (ln -s /bin/ksh "What are you looking at"), then run that as their shell so people would see it when they did a w, etc. [07:29:27] <jbk> i wonder if you could embed escape sequences in that.. [07:30:06] <elektronkind> warez doodz do so to hide their dirs [07:30:21] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris [07:31:11] *** GmanAFK has quit IRC [07:31:35] *** sbingner has joined #opensolaris [07:32:08] *** logic has joined #opensolaris [07:32:22] <sbingner> anybody know why a file compiled with tgmath.h would have issues being linked to? http://pastebin.ca/263079 tgmath references some stuff but it's supposed to be all in libm, ie __tgmath_sqrt [07:34:35] <sbingner> willing to make the obligatory blood sacrifice to the solaris gods [07:34:51] <PerterB> that gcc command line seems to be linking against libspandsp (which references the symbols) but not libibm (which you say defines them) [07:35:13] <sbingner> libm (-lm) [07:35:33] <steleman> sbingner: are there any __tgmath symbols defined in /usr/lib/libm.so.1 ? [07:35:34] <PerterB> oh, misread it :) [07:35:59] <elektronkind> tgmath is a asterisk thing [07:36:14] <sbingner> tgmath is a C thing [07:36:21] <sbingner> see /usr/include/tgmath.h [07:36:42] <sbingner> it's abstraction for sqrt functions etc, in glibc/gcc it's all compiler macros [07:36:49] <sbingner> solaris seems to have done it slightly differently [07:36:49] *** jamesd has quit IRC [07:37:08] <sbingner> steleman: no it doesn't have any [07:37:11] <elektronkind> ah, i see [07:37:42] <steleman> sbingner: so then where should these symbols be resolved from ? tgmath.h only #undefs the standard math functions and then #defines them to __ttmath<foo> [07:37:57] <sbingner> steleman: thats what I'm trying to figure out :) [07:38:01] <steleman> s/tt/tg/g [07:38:07] <sbingner> steleman: google is surprisingly unhelpful :( [07:38:30] *** LeftWing has quit IRC [07:38:40] <sbingner> there is no libtgmath etc [07:41:19] <PerterB> so is the tgmath manpage... (and nothing in /usr/include further defines those macros, nor does anything in /usr/lib define the symbols)... [07:41:43] * sbingner nods [07:41:46] <sbingner> it's pretty confusing [07:41:58] <PerterB> anyway, gotta run and catch a bloody 7:30 train to Corby :) [07:43:07] <steleman> weird [07:43:12] *** logic__ has quit IRC [07:43:39] <elektronkind> huh [07:44:03] <elektronkind> 'nm /usr/lib/lib*.so | grep tgmath' returns nothing [07:44:10] *** Teltariat has quit IRC [07:44:29] <steleman> yeah and i just did the same under /opt/SUNWspro and still nothing [07:45:19] <elektronkind> is there some difference bettwen tgmath_sqrt and libm's sqrt? [07:45:45] <sbingner> elektronkind: no, libm accepts any type of argument and then calls libm's approprtiat sqrt function [07:45:56] <sbingner> s/libm/tgmath/ [07:48:08] *** bougie has quit IRC [07:49:55] <elektronkind> I just nm'd every .so on my solaris 10 system and came up nil for any function tgmath [07:52:46] <elektronkind> I'd make a wrapper .a to resolve the tgmath symbols and use the libm ones [07:53:07] *** _dreams_ has quit IRC [07:53:08] <elektronkind> and of course file a bug :/ [07:53:13] *** Kernel86_ has quit IRC [07:55:43] <sbingner> apparently it's in the compiler itself from somebody else, still checking [07:56:44] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [07:57:00] <printk> is ZFS boot patches for grub etc installed on default on nv 52? [07:57:09] <twincest> no [07:57:26] <printk> the only ones i see for download are for nv 48. [07:57:46] <twincest> i doubt they merge every build [07:58:24] <printk> well. without the patches... i need / (/boot include included in /) and /usr UFS ? anything else can be ZFS right? [07:59:19] *** printk has quit IRC [08:05:20] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [08:10:17] *** Triskelios has quit IRC [08:12:26] *** vmhobbes_ has joined #OpenSolaris [08:12:33] *** vmhobbes has quit IRC [08:18:46] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris [08:22:45] *** |tsoome| has quit IRC [08:26:12] *** Triskelios has joined #opensolaris [08:33:16] *** |tsoome| has joined #opensolaris [08:35:25] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [08:37:40] *** printk has quit IRC [08:38:36] *** mazon is now known as Mazon [08:45:13] *** bobbyz has quit IRC [08:50:18] *** bobbyz has joined #opensolaris [08:57:05] *** B|nTaRa has quit IRC [09:04:21] *** qdk has quit IRC [09:12:40] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris [09:18:41] *** Cyrille has quit IRC [09:19:32] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris [09:28:27] *** alobbs has joined #opensolaris [09:30:42] *** qdk has joined #opensolaris [09:35:47] *** simfordWFH has joined #OpenSolaris [09:38:03] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC [09:38:19] * jmcp packs up and heads back to Australia [09:38:41] <twincest> have fun [09:38:47] *** jmcp has quit IRC [09:39:58] *** xiaofeng_ has joined #opensolaris [09:42:17] *** simford has quit IRC [09:43:39] *** xiaofeng_ is now known as jteo [09:51:18] *** gustav3d has joined #opensolaris [09:53:39] *** sbingner has left #opensolaris [09:55:53] *** mega has joined #opensolaris [09:56:31] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris [10:02:32] *** axxl has joined #opensolaris [10:04:46] *** slowhog has quit IRC [10:10:07] *** alanc__ has quit IRC [10:10:48] *** alanc has joined #opensolaris [10:21:19] *** yongsun has quit IRC [10:23:39] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [10:26:42] *** Gman has quit IRC [10:29:17] <raph_ael> hello [10:30:48] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [10:31:44] <Berny> motning [10:31:58] <Berny> morning even [10:32:08] <Berny> .oO(frozen fingers :-/) [10:33:16] <Berny> Gman: do you have any idea why evolution always jumps to the end of an email message? this is a little annoying when you get longer mail... [10:33:28] <Gman> i don't, sorry [10:33:40] <Berny> ok, any idea who might have? [10:35:18] *** jteo has quit IRC [10:35:51] <Gman> Berny, maybe check bugzilla.gnome.org first [10:36:23] <Berny> good thinking ;-) [10:38:01] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [10:40:03] <Berny> argh [10:40:24] <Berny> you can't search for "end message" because end is shorter than 4 characters... [10:42:07] <|tsoome|> damit. sunsolve is just plain useless:( [10:43:19] <Gman> Berny, jump onto #evolution on irc.gnome.org [10:44:44] <|tsoome|> can anyone get workaround description from bug 6442164 ? [10:47:32] <Berny> Gman: cheers... jsut gotta tell our firewall guy i need yet another orc server on the access list 8-) [10:47:40] <Gman> heh [10:48:26] <Berny> ah still got my student account on the other campus 8-) [10:54:03] *** Gman has quit IRC [10:54:44] *** LeftWing has joined #OpenSolaris [10:56:06] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [11:00:48] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [11:01:14] *** mrdeviant has joined #opensolaris [11:03:51] *** simfordWFH has quit IRC [11:03:58] <Berny> Gman: if someone asks again: press F7 to toggle caret mode ;-) [11:04:11] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC [11:11:36] *** yongsun has quit IRC [11:13:49] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [11:15:59] *** Gman has quit IRC [11:18:16] *** Darwin_ has joined #opensolaris [11:19:31] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [11:26:31] <Berny> re gman [11:26:49] <Gman> sorry, connection dodgy this evening [11:27:31] <Berny> you revived your modem? ;-) [11:27:59] <Gman> stupid isp seemingly [11:28:31] <Gman> i think i'm going to quit while i'm ahead, go to bed, and pull down a copy of ON for the first time in the meantime [11:28:33] <Gman> night! ;) [11:28:36] *** Gman is now known as GmanAFK [11:28:42] *** mega has quit IRC [11:30:38] *** Darwin has quit IRC [11:36:34] *** subramani has joined #opensolaris [11:36:56] <subramani> hi [11:37:07] <subramani> how r u [11:38:03] *** subramani has quit IRC [11:38:09] <Gr|ffous> ok.... [11:41:31] *** godfather] has joined #opensolaris [11:41:34] *** vmhobbes_ has quit IRC [11:41:38] <godfather]> hi [11:41:41] <godfather]> how r u [11:41:51] <godfather]> ? r u there? [11:42:08] *** vmhobbes has joined #OpenSolaris [11:48:21] *** GmanAFK has quit IRC [11:49:50] *** MattMan has joined #opensolaris [11:59:10] *** godfather] has quit IRC [12:02:10] *** mrdeviant has quit IRC [12:04:04] *** yomen has joined #opensolaris [12:05:07] <yomen> has anyone ever tried to upload a foozjs firmware to a printer which is connected to a Windows server? [12:07:42] <yomen> otherwise, who has succeeded in printing from Solaris to a hp laserjet 1000 connected to Win? [12:09:35] *** rachel has joined #opensolaris [12:09:46] <yomen> no ideas.... [12:14:01] *** yomen has quit IRC [12:16:39] <Berny> besides a reboot, what other ways are there to clean up some shared memory? [12:17:10] <leal> hello all.. [12:18:47] <leal> In solaris, when i execute a program, inside the gnome-terminal, what the drivers involved in the communication (pipe)? [12:20:00] <leal> I mean, the driver that handle the output from the application to gnome-terminal input. [12:24:16] <g4lt-U60> leal, RTFS [12:26:27] <g4lt-U60> Berny, you seriously ask if if there's an alternative to rebooting in solaris?! the only reason you should reboot solaris is upgrades of the system or hardware [12:27:47] *** bougie has joined #opensolaris [12:29:34] <leal> g4lt-U60: sorry, read what? i know what (where) to look, why ask?? [12:29:58] <g4lt-U60> exactly [12:30:12] <Stric> Berny: ipcs -m;man ipcrm [12:30:52] <Berny> cheers [12:30:56] <leal> g4lt-U60: exactly what??? [12:32:20] <g4lt-U60> leal, exactly. why ask? [12:36:04] <leal> g4lt-U60: i dont know where is that information! If i know, i would not ask!!! Do you know if there is a man page, doc in sun or something.... [12:36:31] <leal> g4lt-U60: RTFS does not help. [12:37:14] <g4lt-U60> leal in that case, you have no business hooking to pipes [12:39:43] <leal> g4lt-U60: Ok, is a jedi thing... the fact that i don't know where to look, mean that i'm not prepared... [12:39:59] <leal> g4lt-U60: you are a joke. [12:40:59] <Berny> ok, assuming i found some shm segment and the pid listed doesn't exist anymore. is it safe to ipcrm that segment? or might some other process still use it? [12:41:05] *** vmhobbes has quit IRC [12:41:12] <g4lt-U60> leal given that you can find what you need with basic tools such as google, view, and apropos, I'd say you were the joke. [12:41:58] *** vmhobbes has joined #OpenSolaris [12:42:48] <leal> g4lt-U60: what the f.. are we doing here??? the google is the answer. I'm the joke. [12:44:09] <leal> g4lt-U60: i was expecting a simple answer... if someone here had one. If don't, i would look... [12:45:27] <leal> g4lt-U60: But someone could tell me: "look that", and the things would be faster... but you start with RTFS... [12:46:27] <g4lt-U60> awww, you actually had to find the answers on your own. sucks to be you [12:48:14] <lasseoe> heh [12:48:39] <bougie> hello :) [12:49:02] <leal> g4lt-U60: oh, its a Neo thing... are you morpheus? [12:49:45] <g4lt-U60> but since you seem to have an idea that me saying RTFS wasn't useful, let me clue you in. you wish to programatically hook pipes that gnome-terminal uses, yet you can't understand that with the opensourced gnome-terminal, the answers are right there in the source code. have you considered taking up crochet? [12:51:36] <g4lt-U60> RTFS == read the fine source [12:53:19] *** lloy0076 has joined #opensolaris [12:53:29] <lloy0076> I have the most annoying problem. [12:53:44] <lloy0076> 1. I can run Eclipse (of http://www.eclipse.org/ fame). [12:53:49] <lloy0076> 2. Eclipse uses SWT [12:53:57] <lloy0076> 3. I did not build Eclipse... [12:54:16] *** Dar_HOME is now known as Dar [12:54:19] <lloy0076> 4. OBVIOUSLY *swt* can be compiled for Solaris x86 based systems... [12:54:33] <lloy0076> But trying to work out how they did it is just not documented. [12:54:36] <lloy0076> *at all* [12:54:47] * lloy0076 sigh [12:55:01] *** Snake007uk has joined #opensolaris [12:56:20] <twincest> there are various guides on compiling eclipse for Solaris/x86 around [12:56:29] <twincest> (but some of them are a bit old, so be areful) [12:57:03] <lloy0076> I've got an Eclipse for Solaris working. [12:57:17] <lloy0076> I want to be able to compile and run a "HELLO WORLD" SWT program. [12:57:24] <twincest> well last time i built SWT it was simply a matter of typing 'make' or so in the swt source [12:57:32] * lloy0076 flop [12:57:35] <twincest> i don't remember anything complicated about it [12:57:54] <lloy0076> I'm getting lost in the FAQs for making jars and stuff. [12:57:56] <lloy0076> And classpaths. [12:58:30] <twincest> actually, i think the sparc/x86 thing might apply, as with eclipse (you'll get an swt that calls itself 'sparc' unless you change that) but that's it [12:58:44] <lloy0076> eep [12:58:47] <twincest> and the x86 one that thinks it's sparc still runs okay [12:58:51] <twincest> it just has the wrong name :) [12:58:55] <twincest> but that isn't hard to change either [12:59:04] <lloy0076> twincest: And that's meant to be obvious to me how? [12:59:08] * lloy0076 flop [12:59:19] <g4lt-U60> just run it backwards ;P [12:59:22] <lloy0076> One kind of assumes that FOOBAR-SPARC won't work on FOOBAR-X86 [12:59:23] <twincest> well solaris/x86 isn't a supported platform, so i wouldn't think it's really meant to be obvious [12:59:38] <twincest> lloy: no, it's swt for x86 [12:59:41] <lloy0076> heh [12:59:56] <twincest> it's just got 'sparc' embedded as the platform name [12:59:57] <lloy0076> I actually think my Eclipse is an Eclipse for Linux. [13:00:00] <lloy0076> But I've totally forgotten. [13:00:33] <twincest> it's kind of ridiculous that eclipse still doesn't support solaris x86 officially [13:00:56] <lloy0076> twincest: I've found my most problems ever with Java on Solaris. [13:01:00] <cmihai> I remember getting it working [13:01:16] <lloy0076> I've gotten Eclipse working. I somehow have a working Eclipse 3.2. [13:01:17] <twincest> the problem isn't java, it's swt (which is C) and the eclipse native launcher [13:01:22] <cmihai> Let me see... 3.2, yeah. [13:01:25] <lloy0076> As I said, I *think* it's a Linux version. [13:01:29] <cmihai> I belive I wanted to compile Azureus or something [13:01:42] <cmihai> And somehow it needed Eclipse... don't really remember [13:01:58] <cmihai> I use JDeveloper/NetBeans/SunStudio over Eclipse really [13:02:02] <lloy0076> cmihai: I think you replied to me on the list :) [13:02:10] <cmihai> Hm... could be ;) [13:02:32] <lloy0076> cmihai: I've found Eclipse 3.2 to work faster. [13:02:47] <lloy0076> cmihai: Except for when it decides to do nothing at all for long periods of time. [13:03:15] <cmihai> Well, google for Azureus Solaris x86, I belive that helped me somehow. [13:03:36] <cmihai> I'm on some pretty strange systems atm, so I can't check :) [13:05:18] <lloy0076> In essence, it says that the SPARC libraries will actually wrk on X86 [13:05:26] <lloy0076> Which I think is what twincest was saying before. [13:05:39] * lloy0076 is now totally confused [13:06:04] <cmihai> I remember something about rm -ing some linux libs and adding some sparc libs, heh [13:06:15] <lloy0076> It kind of sucks that I don't have a "Hello World" swt app to test with. [13:06:28] <twincest> lloy0076: *no*, sparc libraries don't work on x86 [13:06:33] <lloy0076> It's even more annoying that something as horrendously complex as Eclipse does work :( [13:06:44] <twincest> what works is building x86 libraries where the embedded string containing the name of the platform is "SPARC" [13:06:49] <lloy0076> ah [13:07:11] <cmihai> By the way, know of any Cisco VPN client for Solaris? [13:07:14] <lloy0076> Could I pester one of you to point out what I should download and build from http://www.eclipse.org/ [13:07:22] <cmihai> I can't really.. check at the moment, heh [13:07:27] <lloy0076> I'm confused. [13:07:58] <cmihai> lloy0076: just look for the Azureus on Solaris x86 page, I _belive_ that uses Eclipse/swt and tells you what you need. Or not. OH well. [13:08:25] *** Kernel86_ has joined #OpenSolaris [13:08:41] <lloy0076> I [13:08:46] <lloy0076> oops [13:08:49] <lloy0076> I'll try that. [13:09:07] * lloy0076 sigh [13:09:17] <lloy0076> Azureus home page is worse than SWT's download page. [13:09:30] <cmihai> Neh, this was unofficial from some wiki iirc. [13:09:47] <lloy0076> Yeah, I think I'm on the right one. [13:09:54] <lloy0076> It's talking about get that, rename this and such. [13:10:07] *** MattMan is now known as MattAFC [13:10:12] <lloy0076> http://learningsolaris.com/archives/2006/03/22/azureus-solaris-x86/ [13:14:36] <lloy0076> OMGWTFBBQ [13:14:45] * lloy0076 sigh [13:14:47] <lloy0076> It worked. [13:15:04] <lloy0076> Well, I can now use Azureus which wasn't really my goal. [13:15:27] <lloy0076> But I now have a set of SWT libraries that run on my system that aren't part of Eclipse. [13:18:09] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC [13:24:15] <cmihai> Well, you do have SWT stuff working with Eclipse, right? :) [13:31:55] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris [13:33:13] <lloy0076> cmihai: yes. [13:33:36] <lloy0076> cmihai: I'm looking for a way to run SWT stuff without eclipse. [13:33:51] <lloy0076> cmihai: Or at least the bizarre JAVA incantation to use if one has Eclipse. [13:33:53] * lloy0076 sigh [13:34:10] <lloy0076> Swing slow, ugly and likely to break on client machines. [13:34:29] <lloy0076> SWT is fast, good looking and likely to be impossible to work out how to get running. [13:34:54] *** ADHS has joined #opensolaris [13:35:00] *** uebayasi has quit IRC [13:35:05] <ADHS> Hi [13:35:54] <boyd> Well, looks like it's nigh on official, the Optimus Keyboard is dead in the water [13:36:09] <Stric> you mean the $1200 price tag? :) [13:36:14] <boyd> and the B&W [13:36:27] <ADHS> Is it possible to load Solaris 10 drivers in Opensolaris ? [13:36:28] <boyd> and the not-all-keys-have-displays [13:36:40] <boyd> and the fewer keys than planned [13:37:07] <boyd> Oh, and the 6 month wait if you pre-order for only $1200 [13:37:19] *** Dar is now known as Dar_AFC [13:37:22] <boyd> ADHS: Probably [13:37:23] *** Dar_AFC is now known as Dar [13:37:34] <boyd> ... but apart from that it's fine [13:38:03] <lloy0076> $1200? [13:38:07] <lloy0076> That's excessive.' [13:38:10] <boyd> Yah [13:38:17] <lloy0076> DO THOSE KEYS RUN SWT LABELS? [13:38:21] * lloy0076 snickers [13:38:59] <boyd> One post from the blog: "The next announcement will be that the keys are gonna have slots for paper you slide in and you just draw what you want on it (eraser sold separately) but due to funding restraints.... there wont' be a backlight." [13:39:08] <boyd> hehe [13:39:26] <lloy0076> boyd: Did you happen to post the URL to said blog? [13:39:46] <boyd> http://community.livejournal.com/optimus_project [13:39:53] <ADHS> boyd: I'm trying to install Opensolaris on a HP DL360 G5 and it doesn't support the Raidcontroller [13:40:10] * cmihai beats the crap out of an optimus keyboard with a 12 pound 1987 vintage IBM model M clicky keyboard [13:40:11] <|tsoome|> so ask driver from HP [13:40:26] *** |tsoome| is now known as tsoome [13:40:35] <cmihai> Modern piece of **** :) [13:40:43] <ADHS> tsoome: HP provides drivers for Solaris 10 [13:40:46] <tsoome> BTW, HP does have some driver download [13:40:53] <lloy0076> cmihai: You want to beat the http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-upravlator/ [13:40:56] <boyd> So give them a try [13:41:03] <boyd> lloy0076: lol [13:41:11] <lloy0076> How the fsck one patents transparent buttons over a screen beats me. [13:41:15] <ADHS> tsoome: I did, it says no drivers found [13:41:53] <tsoome> solaris is actually quite nice about drivers - you may find the drivers for older version will run just fine [13:42:01] <cmihai> lloy0076: they should patent opaque buttons over a display! Now that's smart! :D [13:42:09] <boyd> Hehe [13:42:18] <boyd> ADHS: What said that? [13:42:41] <lloy0076> boyd: I'd suggest the least likely answer is: The voice in his head. [13:42:46] * lloy0076 ducks for cover [13:42:52] <boyd> Now now [13:43:16] <boyd> I have to say that the photos/mockups on the blog look nice, I just doubt that the res will be that good [13:43:26] <tsoome> wait a bit - this DL360 G5 is 64bit xeon? [13:43:35] <ADHS> tsoome: yes [13:44:00] <tsoome> someone just asked few weeks ago [13:44:10] <tsoome> there are drivers in HP [13:44:27] <tsoome> but, only will run in 32bit kernel [13:44:36] <boyd> Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention the obvious contempt that the guy is showing for those who are agrieved by the bait-and-switch [13:44:47] <tsoome> 64bit kernel did not found any disks [13:45:14] <ADHS> tsoome: I got the 32bit Version and the drivers on a floppy [13:45:32] <ADHS> tsoome: but it says: No Driver Updates foun [13:45:53] <tsoome> and your kernel is running 32 or 64 bit? [13:46:02] <boyd> Oh, wait... maybe it's expecting the DCA? [13:47:10] <tsoome> could be. [13:47:41] <ADHS> tsoome: uname -a -> SunOS 5.11 snv_52 i86pc i386 i86pc [13:47:48] *** bor1 has joined #opensolaris [13:48:03] <ADHS> tsoome: seems 32bit? [13:48:09] <boyd> isainfo [13:48:23] <ADHS> i386 [13:48:26] <tsoome> isainfo -k, I think [13:49:10] <ADHS> also i386 [13:49:13] <boyd> Yeah, but if it's only got i386 then it's 32 bit [13:50:07] <tsoome> is the system up and running or is this from install cd/dvd? [13:50:21] * boyd has to go to bed... Night all [13:50:22] <tsoome> because x86 install is always 32bit [13:54:50] *** Somethingelse has joined #opensolaris [13:56:24] <ADHS> Im trying to install the system [14:02:06] <lloy0076> heh [14:02:10] <lloy0076> Going to be is underrated [14:02:15] <lloy0076> Umm, overrated [14:03:04] *** jteo has joined #opensolaris [14:03:22] *** bengtf has quit IRC [14:05:22] *** lloy0076 has left #opensolaris [14:10:59] *** gm152 has quit IRC [14:11:00] *** bor1 has quit IRC [14:13:03] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [14:26:11] <Vanuatoo> I'm using solaris express 11/06 and as it seems it comes with old fnmatch.h [14:26:41] <Vanuatoo> I try to compile a program and it fails because some constants are not defined in fnmatch.h [14:27:44] <Vanuatoo> anyone here? [14:36:20] *** tek-ops has joined #opensolaris [14:38:03] <cmihai> If any of you have experience with Clariion Storage (EMC / CX300), please take a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/31118 and tell me what I'm missing ;\ [14:44:05] *** axisys has joined #opensolaris [14:44:34] *** loke has joined #opensolaris [14:46:55] *** leal has quit IRC [14:47:30] <axisys> anyone know of effective way to block aol instant message traffic? [14:47:56] <axisys> just blocking port 5190 thru ipfilter may not be enough [14:48:50] <axisys> i guess one way would be find all the ips of aim login servers.. but nslookup just gave me one ip [14:50:46] *** dlynes_laptop has quit IRC [14:54:39] <tsoome> cmihai: you have dual path setup? [14:56:28] <tsoome> it seems vxvm is not able to recognize it and it will not activate DMP for luns. it could be some settings issue in clariion, but I'm not really EMC expert so I can't tell what exactly to set [14:57:05] <cmihai> Right [14:57:10] <cmihai> Yeah, I do. [14:57:43] <tsoome> and - you do have emc asl installed for veritas? [14:57:49] <cmihai> Well, I'm supposed to get an answer from EMC about my account in working days. Hem. [14:57:53] <cmihai> tsoome: no... [14:58:14] <tsoome> vxvm needs vendor specific ASL's for array [14:58:26] <tsoome> look into http://support.veritas.com [14:58:36] <tsoome> at least in solaris it is so.... [14:59:24] <tsoome> if ASL is missing, it can't do array specific initialization, including DMP... [14:59:29] <cmihai> Well, the HP compatibility matrix said it's supported or something. Well, I did look for them, but it's kind of hard to find, heh [14:59:36] <cmihai> Right. [15:00:11] <tsoome> sure it's supported [15:00:45] <cmihai> Well, there's only a Solaris version on the Veritas site ;\ [15:01:47] <tsoome> maybe for hpux they have different implementation.... [15:03:03] <tsoome> what version of veritas? [15:03:39] <cmihai> 3.5 [15:03:46] <tsoome> that old... [15:03:47] <cmihai> Base [15:03:51] <cmihai> Yeah. [15:04:00] <cmihai> It's what the latest patch from HP had. [15:04:27] <tsoome> for 3.5 thay have U1, U2 and U3 [15:04:38] <tsoome> latest for HPUX is 5.0 btw [15:05:17] <tsoome> see this link [15:05:18] <tsoome> http://www.symantec.com/enterprise/support/downloads.jsp?pid=15273 [15:05:56] <tsoome> it shows me updates for 3.5U3 hpux and clariion asl download is the first link [15:06:41] <tsoome> so they are using ASL's for HPUX as well. [15:06:58] <tsoome> ASL = Array Support Library, BTW [15:07:26] <cmihai> Yeah, I know. Anyway, I'm pretty much stuck with ssh/lynx atm, but can I donwload this BASE version from Veritas? [15:08:08] <tsoome> usually yes, but it's no use unless you have support and new license keys [15:08:16] <tsoome> (if they are needed) [15:08:53] <cmihai> ugh [15:08:53] <tsoome> if you have support, you can register in support web and then you will have download options in your account [15:09:04] <tsoome> or just talk to your veritas rep. [15:09:16] <cmihai> Well, since this HP came with the BASE version, I have no Veritas license. [15:09:20] <cmihai> Or support. Only HP support. [15:09:55] <tsoome> okay, thare are then some limitations perhaps? [15:10:06] <cmihai> Only the online-resize && stuff functions. [15:10:23] <cmihai> Mostly since this array _did_ work before with the same stuff [15:10:29] <tsoome> like only internal JBOD disks are supported and to connect an external array you have to buy an upgrade [15:10:34] <tsoome> ask from HP [15:11:07] *** postwait has joined #opensolaris [15:11:12] <tsoome> meanwhile you can just exclude/disable the alternate path [15:11:27] <cmihai> HP guys said he's in the U.K. and won't show up until next week.. EMC told me to wait until Monday for an account, etc. I'd pretty much like this fixed now :). [15:11:28] <postwait> So I have a raidz volume with a drive failure. [15:11:41] <tsoome> because just now vxvm is confused to see same disk ID twice [15:11:42] <postwait> I've got an extra drive in my enclosure I'd like to do a zfs replace pool old new [15:11:55] <cmihai> tsoome: yep. That's from dual path I presume, right? [15:11:59] <postwait> It says "new" is not in pool. [15:12:00] <tsoome> yes [15:12:07] <cmihai> Since I did try to disable that but... heh, it didn't work at all :) [15:12:16] *** laca has joined #opensolaris [15:12:19] <tsoome> if you have dual fibre connection - unplug one [15:12:23] <cmihai> I did. [15:12:47] <cmihai> Maybe I should have unplugged the other, huh? Since unplugging one made it dissapear completly [15:13:05] <tsoome> :) [15:13:21] <tsoome> vxdisk scandisks or something [15:13:31] <tsoome> and vxdctl enable [15:13:46] <tsoome> (or just reboot) [15:14:02] <cmihai> Right, didn't do that ;) [15:15:02] <postwait> anyone have any raidz zpool experience? [15:15:28] <tsoome> .oO HP support on opensolaris channel.... wierd world... [15:17:15] <tsoome> .oO provided by solaris admin:P [15:17:50] <cmihai> How could I do that from remote? Disable a card? [15:18:14] <tsoome> to "unplug" alternate? [15:18:17] <cmihai> Yeah [15:18:30] <tsoome> you can actually exclude disks from veritas [15:18:44] <tsoome> vxdiskadm [15:19:18] <pjd_> postwait: Works fine here. [15:19:20] <tsoome> perhaps some other command as well - I don't work with vxvm every day... [15:19:36] <tsoome> just after some year or 2... [15:19:39] <cmihai> tsoome: cool, looks like this may work. Thanks. [15:19:42] <pjd_> postwait: You 'new' is not in use? [15:20:01] <cmihai> tsoome: well, that's a whole lot more experience than I have with vxvm :) [15:20:35] <tsoome> well you can download vxvm manual from support.veritas.com and it will help you a lot [15:21:47] <postwait> the new is not in use [15:22:20] <postwait> pjd_: c4t6000393000016A1Fd4 is failing [15:22:30] <cmihai> Well, I offlined the LVM disks. I guess veritas should work now. [15:22:49] <postwait> pjd_: c4t6000393000016A1Fd6 is not in any zpool [15:23:09] <postwait> And I'm trying zpool replace xsr_slowdata_2 c4t6000393000016A1Fd4 c4t6000393000016A1Fd6 [15:23:47] *** xiaofeng_ has joined #opensolaris [15:24:03] *** xiaofeng_ is now known as jteo_ [15:24:06] *** crash|_ has joined #opensolaris [15:24:25] <pjd_> postwait: I tried on files only and it seems to work. Can you try: mkfile 64m foo0 foo1 foo2 && zpool create test mirror /path/to/foo[01] && zpool replace test /path/to/foo[12] [15:26:13] <postwait> maybe I have to specify the full path to the new device? [15:26:18] <postwait> Seems sillyu [15:28:33] <pjd_> postwait: You only need full paths for files. [15:32:19] *** jteo has quit IRC [15:34:06] <postwait> I do'nt have to offline the broken one first do I? [15:34:12] <postwait> This is a raidz, not a mirror. [15:35:27] <pjd_> Ok, let me retry with raidz. [15:37:05] <pjd_> postwait: The same test works for raidz too. [15:46:01] <jteo_> i believe there was a post about this on zfs-discuss. [15:47:11] <postwait> Okay look slike odd naming convention of the devices for some reason. [15:47:14] <postwait> So... [15:47:33] <postwait> Now, my replace is taking FOREVER (hasnt' returned from the invocation) [15:47:38] <postwait> And status now hangs. [15:47:52] <postwait> I think the bad drive is slowing everything down. [15:47:56] <postwait> with timeouts. [15:49:21] *** mrdeviant has joined #opensolaris [15:56:16] *** glagasse has joined #opensolaris [15:56:52] *** MattAFC is now known as MattMan [16:03:42] *** ADHS has left #opensolaris [16:09:16] *** Mazon is now known as mazon [16:09:47] *** dunc has quit IRC [16:33:48] *** jteo_ is now known as jteo [16:37:13] *** Jaguar has joined #opensolaris [16:39:51] *** vext01 has joined #opensolaris [16:43:23] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris [16:43:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel [16:47:45] *** echelog has joined #opensolaris [16:49:19] *** mazon has joined #opensolaris [16:49:33] *** solarisjon has quit IRC [16:49:51] *** solarisjon has joined #opensolaris [16:49:54] <postwait> Is a wsvc_t time of 22114.3 bad? [16:49:55] <postwait> :-) [16:50:30] <postwait> pjd_: update, my zpool replace command took 53 minutes to "start" [16:50:35] *** alobbs has quit IRC [16:50:37] <postwait> Now it is marked as "replacing" [16:55:49] *** qdk has quit IRC [17:05:26] *** Burana has joined #opensolaris [17:12:59] *** logic has quit IRC [17:13:01] *** logic_ has joined #opensolaris [17:13:02] *** mrdeviant has quit IRC [17:13:22] *** razrX_ is now known as razrX [17:14:27] *** tsoome has quit IRC [17:14:30] *** tek-ops has left #opensolaris [17:16:33] *** mazon is now known as Mazon [17:20:38] <gdamore> good morning *! [17:20:48] <jengelh> waaah [17:22:41] <jbk> almost :) [17:24:03] *** raph_ael has quit IRC [17:25:09] *** qdk has joined #opensolaris [17:27:38] *** raph_ael has joined #opensolaris [17:29:03] *** Dar is now known as Dar_HOME [17:29:41] *** sommerfeld has joined #opensolaris [17:29:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sommerfeld [17:31:19] *** crash|_ has quit IRC [17:32:56] *** astinus has quit IRC [17:43:21] *** laca has quit IRC [17:43:24] <jteo> darn. i missed the argument about p.o.o. [17:43:37] <stevel> was there another one? [17:45:10] <jteo> i presume there was only that One you blogged about. [17:47:27] <stevel> ah yeah [17:52:11] <jteo> ack. forgot to bzero. [17:52:44] *** laca has joined #opensolaris [17:57:41] *** stevel has quit IRC [18:09:53] *** vext01 has quit IRC [18:10:15] *** alanc is now known as alanc_away [18:10:38] *** laca is now known as lacaAFK [18:14:42] *** Inhetep has joined #opensolaris [18:16:50] <onbot> commit by Robbin Kawabata: 6497364 update zoneinfo timezones to 2006p - (Western Australia DST 12/3/2006) [18:18:25] <sickness> i'm back [18:21:47] *** bougie has quit IRC [18:23:15] *** bougie has joined #opensolaris [18:23:48] *** Cyrille has quit IRC [18:26:00] *** Gadzooks has joined #opensolaris [18:28:10] *** Snake007uk has quit IRC [18:29:19] <Gadzooks> SXCR b53... I see some bugs have reared their ugly heads before the launch.. no cairo 1.2.6 this round.. [18:32:35] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc [18:34:52] *** bondolo has quit IRC [18:35:24] *** jgilje has joined #opensolaris [18:38:57] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [18:38:58] *** jgilje has quit IRC [18:39:20] *** bondolo has quit IRC [18:40:00] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [18:54:21] <alanc> I wonder how much I'd have been yelled at for trying an ON putback using the term STFU...no one in the X.Org community even blinked at that commit comment 8-) [18:56:39] <jteo> one can aspire. [18:57:44] <cmihai> Gasp, I can't belive CDE didn't start because /tmp wasn't chown bin:bin :)) [18:57:57] <cmihai> <3 dr_dt ;) [18:59:46] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [19:00:41] <movement> I got complained at for using "dog slow" in a bug synopsis once. [19:01:16] <Gman> by the rspca? [19:01:26] <alanc> I suppose STFU has the advantage of not dropping the F-bomb directly on people too clueless to know what it means [19:01:37] <movement> heh [19:01:52] <Berny> .oO(what does stfu stand for? ;0) [19:01:58] <jengelh> stfu. [19:02:03] <jengelh> ;) [19:02:10] <Berny> btw hello alanc... i got an x related question ;-) [19:02:40] <alanc> http://www.stfu.se/ [19:03:29] <alanc> though http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stfu is more explanatory [19:03:37] <Berny> would you know if it is possible to tell the xserver used by the sunray server software to provide an static grey visual? [19:03:42] <jengelh> tech9iner : Oh? [19:03:55] <jengelh> I thought you were on drugs and wanted to connect one NIC with another NIC on the same machine. [19:04:13] <jengelh> bla [19:04:36] <Gman> don't suppose there's a hg clone option that does rsync style bringovers? [19:04:39] <alanc> Berny: I don't know if the Sun Ray module supports that [19:04:52] <alanc> the Xsun server supports it if the device module sores [19:04:56] <alanc> err, does [19:05:05] <alanc> don't know where sores came from [19:05:25] <Berny> alanc: i haven't found a way to get it to and nobody seems to have tried it (but me) so i'm afraid it doesn't :-\ [19:05:47] <Berny> and i guess there is no other way to get this static grey stuff? [19:05:48] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris [19:05:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel [19:06:06] <Berny> i would need that for some old crappy medical imaging software ;-\ [19:06:50] <alanc> could use a nested X server that offers other visuals - maybe one of the vnc variants or Xephyr [19:07:07] <Berny> vnc doesn't either as far as i found out [19:07:19] <Gadzooks> Does CDE 2.1 equal Sun's CDE?? Good question.. [19:07:23] <postwait> So, I got my ZFS resilvering in progress... but I'm curious as to the fmdump I'm seeing. [19:07:37] <postwait> from /var/adm/messages, I see Key Sense errors starting Nov 30 4am [19:07:44] <postwait> but nothing int he fault management framework [19:07:55] *** razrX has quit IRC [19:07:57] *** razrX has joined #opensolaris [19:08:05] <postwait> for ZFS, I started to "feel" the errors at Dec 01 4am... and I see FM info for that. [19:08:08] *** delewis has quit IRC [19:08:20] <postwait> Why did the fmd not alert me to the fact that there were SCSI errors. [19:08:21] <postwait> ? [19:08:38] <Gadzooks> Sun is at CDE 1.7..don't know how it forks from OpenGroup's CDE 2.1... [19:09:19] <Berny> alanc: cheers xephyr look like the thing i want... [19:10:39] <alanc> Sun CDE 1.7 is the latest release of Sun's fork of CDE, which forked off Open Group CDE 1.0.x [19:11:19] <alanc> some of the features TOG added in CDE 2.1 were added to Sun's fork along the way, such as IMAP support in dtmail [19:11:33] *** Burana has quit IRC [19:13:42] <Berny> alanc: is there a sol9 sparc package of xephyr available somewhere? ;-) [19:13:50] <alanc> not that I know of [19:14:01] <alanc> I've only built/run it on nevada [19:14:05] <Berny> bugger [19:14:35] <alanc> trying to get it into S10U4 too [19:14:44] <alanc> but S9, that's old [19:14:56] <Gadzooks> Is there any thoughts of going full CDE 2.1 with Sun enhancements?? [19:15:03] <alanc> absolutely not [19:15:09] <Gadzooks> :< [19:15:24] <alanc> Sun will delete CDE completely before they do a major upgrade to it [19:15:25] <cmihai> alanc: oh, IMAP support is a new feature? [19:15:37] <cmihai> I was wondering why I only had that on Solaris CDE [19:15:48] <Berny> alanc: thats what i have to run on the sunray server because this box gotta run some crappy medical software which doesn't yet give support if run on sol10 :-\ [19:15:51] <alanc> cmihai: it was when it was added to Sun CDE around 1.2 or 1.3 about 10 years ago [19:15:52] <Gadzooks> Ah.. what is the next gen desktop for Sun moving forward? [19:16:18] <cmihai> JDS... :( [19:16:21] <alanc> Gadzooks: welcome to 2000 - Sun's been on GNOME for a while [19:16:24] <cmihai> Gnome && co [19:16:53] <Gadzooks> (I heard a rumor about KDE...just checking... ;> ) [19:16:59] <alanc> CDE is being phased out [19:17:10] *** jteo has quit IRC [19:17:36] <Somethingelse> CDE being phased out?? highly doubt it [19:17:54] <alanc> very certain of it [19:18:04] <cmihai> Yeah, they're all dropping CDE [19:18:09] <alanc> and I've been in the meetings where the demise has been planned [19:18:13] <Gadzooks> Really, I thought there was some large user base for it. [19:18:23] <Somethingelse> mmmm, i don't know dude, iz nice and simple and ppl love it [19:18:34] <cmihai> Only nutcases like me :) [19:18:49] <Somethingelse> gnome is good, but it still has it's share of issues and it hogs up quite a bit of resources [19:19:09] <andersmo> heh. And I thought it was the other way around. CDE's not nice, not simple, and people hate it? =) [19:19:33] <alanc> Sun doesn't want to keep spending to maintain 2 desktops forever [19:19:42] <jbk> with much rejoycing? :) [19:19:46] <jbk> err [19:19:51] <jbk> that was delayed [19:19:52] *** Burana has joined #opensolaris [19:19:57] <cmihai> alanc: but I don't mind using 10 year old version of CDE. [19:20:07] <alanc> it's not yet decided which release of Solaris will no longer contain CDE, but one of the future ones will be CDE-less [19:20:46] *** vmhobbes has quit IRC [19:21:23] <Gadzooks> Ok.. so Sun is thinking of **ONE** official desktop to support... is KDE an alternative choice?? [19:21:33] *** vmhobbes has joined #OpenSolaris [19:21:36] <cmihai> no. [19:21:50] <cmihai> And when that happens, I'm dropping Solaris :) [19:22:15] <alanc> KDE is an unsupported alternative you can download and add on yourself, but Sun isn't shipping it in Solaris [19:22:28] <alanc> you can get KDE from companion CD, blastwave, etc. [19:26:51] <Gadzooks> No problem, GNOME is fine. Is there still an upgrade of Xorg coming out for SXCR b53 or b56?? [19:27:10] <alanc> working on Xorg 7.2 - currently targeting b56 [19:27:28] <alanc> b53 got GNOME 2.16 and Firefox 2.0 [19:28:14] <Gadzooks> Will GNOME 2.16 be a part of Solaris 10 ever? [19:29:12] <Gadzooks> (current selling Sun workstations are still on GNOME 2.6) [19:31:35] <trygvis> hm .. I wonder why svn is having issues updating saying disk full, but I have a several gigs of free space [19:31:50] <alanc> Gadzooks: TBD [19:32:06] * Gman votes for no [19:32:37] <alanc> would be a lot of work to backport, and if everything from nevada goes into S10, what are we going to use to convince people to upgrade to S11? [19:32:54] <Gadzooks> ;> [19:33:36] <cmihai> break it :) [19:33:55] <cmihai> Then force people to upgrade and ask for their money. All big companies do it! [19:34:04] <Gman> was about to say :) [19:34:21] <alanc> now to figure out why Xorg on SPARC is mapping the keyboard all wonky [19:34:37] <sickness> lol [19:36:13] <Gadzooks> AlanC <- how many people on the Sun X team? [19:36:16] <alanc> I hate keyboards [19:36:23] <alanc> Gadzooks: not enough [19:36:28] <Gadzooks> heheh [19:36:33] <sommerfeld> we need to develop direct neural interfaces [19:36:46] <alanc> depends how you define the X team [19:37:14] <alanc> I work in the group that owns the X server itself and clients, we have other groups that do the Xsun device modules for SPARC, x86 & Sun Ray [19:37:35] <alanc> there's also the sustaining group, the i18n group which does the X input methods... [19:38:28] <alanc> and the JDS group which keeps finding more things we need to do in X so they can add more feature bloat to GNOME... [19:38:32] *** bunker has joined #opensolaris [19:38:34] <alanc> 8-) [19:39:38] <g4lt-U60> alanc, then tell project looking glass to get on the stick and make a version for sparc ;P [19:39:39] <Gadzooks> lol [19:40:32] <alanc> Looking Glass is waiting for Xorg on SPARC with accelerated drivers [19:40:51] <alanc> all I have here is Xorg on SPARC using the m64 as a dumb frame buffer with 0 acceleration [19:41:24] <alanc> have to wait for SPARC graphics team to port their drivers still [19:42:04] <g4lt-U60> alanc, even better, since that means the first target will be my SB100 ;) [19:42:43] <Gadzooks> Are all the new composite/Beryl 3D graphics supportable on SPARC platforms? [19:43:28] <alanc> Gadzooks: should be once they have Xorg with accelerated OpenGL on the boards with 3-D acceleration [19:43:47] *** Kush- has joined #opensolaris [19:43:58] <alanc> g4lt-U60: actually, first is my Ultra 10, though i could probably grab one of the unused sb150's off the shelf in the lab [19:44:40] <g4lt-U60> alanc, I thought the U10 had UPA gfx, there's a UPA m64? [19:45:20] <alanc> U10 has m64 soldered onto the motherboard just like SB100/150 [19:45:29] <alanc> it's used if you don't plug in a UPA card [19:45:37] <Gadzooks> Is this with the new DRI and Sun OpenGL?? That is pretty cool if so. [19:46:02] <alanc> can also put m64 in a PCI slot on the U10 - had a PGX-64 card in too for a while, replaced it with an XVR-100 recently [19:46:09] <alanc> Gadzooks: TBD [19:46:16] <g4lt-U60> coolies, so if it works on your U10, my SB100 should be a breeze ;) [19:46:57] <alanc> SB100 is a slightly newer rev of the ATI Rage chip with 8 Mb VRAM instead of the 2Mb or 4Mb on the U10 (depending on U10 model) [19:47:00] <alanc> so yes [19:48:56] <g4lt-U60> I never did figure out why they crippled a rage128 with 8Mb VRAM [19:49:21] <g4lt-U60> the one peecee rage128 I got had 8 times that much [19:49:39] <alanc> cost [19:50:02] <alanc> every penny mattered when they were making those machines if they were going to hit the $1000 price target [19:50:14] *** mrdeviant has joined #opensolaris [19:50:17] <g4lt-U60> troo dat [19:50:50] <alanc> with the SB100 the price was so high on the feature priority list, the project was named "grover" since the $1000 bill has Grover Cleveland's picture on it [19:51:14] *** Inhetep has quit IRC [19:51:53] <g4lt-U60> well, I can stop looking for the silkscreened muppet on the mainboard then ;P [19:52:00] <Gadzooks> :> [19:52:25] <alanc> heh [19:52:48] *** deather_ has joined #opensolaris [19:52:52] * elektronkind remember the bear on his SS20's main board [19:53:01] <elektronkind> "Kodiak" I think was the code name for that [19:53:05] <g4lt-U60> I was thinking of hobbes [19:54:01] <klepplap> http://geekologie.com/2006/11/l337_speak_is_a_potentially_da.php [19:58:35] <Gadzooks> What will happen to Looking Glass?? [19:58:55] <cmihai> Probably die from lack of users? [19:59:47] *** deather has quit IRC [20:02:36] <Gadzooks> Seems like it was the forerunner... just that more updated technologies have come out now. [20:02:48] *** bougie has quit IRC [20:02:51] <alanc> Looking Glass is a research project into how we might use 3D interfaces, and they're still exploring that [20:02:59] <cmihai> They'll probably integrate some parts of it in something sooner or later [20:03:12] <alanc> compiz/beryl are more about eye candy effects than truly changing the way apps work [20:04:07] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [20:04:47] <Fish> hello [20:05:41] <Gadzooks> is this something we'll see in SXCR b53? [20:06:06] <cmihai> no?! [20:06:13] <alanc> is what something you'll see in B53? [20:07:30] <g4lt-U60> Gadzooks, the only person that has looking glass on sparc right now is alanc, so no [20:07:38] <alanc> g4lt-U60: bullshit [20:07:51] <alanc> I don't even have looking glass on SPARC 8-) [20:08:08] <g4lt-U60> okay, let me rephrase [20:08:22] <alanc> I barely have unaccelerated Xorg on SPARC - certainly not the 3-D acceleration Looking Glass needs [20:08:46] <g4lt-U60> Gadzooks, the only person that is attempting to look forward to looking glass on sparc right now is alanc, so no [20:10:40] <alanc> if you're asking about Looking Glass, go see https://lg3d.dev.java.net/ - it's a research project, not something ready to include in Solaris [20:15:09] <Gadzooks> Is the U10 used to test SPARC stuff for X? [20:17:04] *** Kronuz has joined #opensolaris [20:17:06] <Kronuz> hello [20:17:24] <Kronuz> hey, what's the cvs to get opensolaris source code? [20:18:48] <dwc-> cvs.opensolaris.org? [20:19:04] <Gadzooks> Just so I know the baseline SPARC desktop platform everything will work on. [20:19:16] <dwc-> or you might need to grab it with mercurial instead of cvs [20:19:23] <Kronuz> dwc-: yeah, but is it anonymous? [20:19:29] <Error_404> Kronuz: ssh://anon at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate [20:19:30] <Kronuz> pserver, etc? [20:19:36] <Error_404> you get it with Hg (mercurial) [20:19:37] <Kronuz> oh, great! :) [20:19:51] <Error_404> read: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/onnv/ [20:19:53] <Kronuz> what's the onnv thing? [20:19:59] <Kronuz> ok [20:20:12] <stevel> kronuz: ON NV = OS/Net (consolidation) Nevada (codename) [20:20:23] <Kronuz> oh [20:21:09] <Kronuz> Error_404: and the module name? src? [20:21:30] <stevel> stop trying to think of things in terms of CVS :) [20:21:32] <Error_404> it's not CVS [20:21:37] <Error_404> it's mercurial [20:21:40] <Kronuz> <.< [20:21:41] <Kronuz> >.> [20:21:46] <axisys> anyone know how to start apache, not apache2, thru smf? svcs -a | grep http shows only apache2 [20:21:52] <Error_404> you get it with the command: hg clone ssh://anon at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate [20:21:53] <stevel> the repository is at ssh://anon at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate [20:21:55] <axisys> *knows [20:22:00] <stevel> what you call it is up to you [20:22:11] <stevel> axisys: apache[1?] never got SMF'd i think [20:22:16] <stevel> it's still controlled by /etc/init.d [20:22:37] <stevel> kronuz: we happen to call it onnv-gate, but if you want to clone it into a "kronuz-rocks" repository, that's fine too [20:23:09] <axisys> stevel: thnx [20:23:30] <Kronuz> I guess I'll get a snapshot instead then [20:23:39] <Kronuz> I don't have mercurial installed [20:23:58] <stevel> kronuz: what build are you running of sxcr? [20:23:59] *** axxl has quit IRC [20:24:04] <stevel> we've shipped mercurial since snv_45 [20:24:06] <stevel> /usr/bin/hg [20:24:20] <Kronuz> stevel: WinXP build ^_^ [20:24:24] <Kronuz> :P [20:24:29] <stevel> ah, well, can't help you much there then :) [20:24:34] <Kronuz> hehe [20:24:56] <Kronuz> there are snapshots, right? [20:25:05] <stevel> yeah, build synchronised snapshots [20:25:18] <stevel> the most recent is build 53 [20:25:24] <stevel> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b53/ [20:25:41] <Kronuz> great, thanks, I was looking for it :) [20:26:49] <Kronuz> are there device drivers in the source code too? [20:27:28] <stevel> yup [20:27:35] <Kronuz> great :) [20:27:43] <Kronuz> I'm trying to figure out how device drivers work [20:28:13] *** sickness has quit IRC [20:28:19] <stevel> kronuz: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4854 [20:28:34] <Kronuz> does it have all the device drivers that Solaris 10 has? (opensolaris that is) [20:28:56] <stevel> kronuz: no. it's got all the device drivers we could open source [20:29:05] <Kronuz> oh [20:29:08] <stevel> there are some proprietary/closed drivers that we don't have the rights to open source [20:29:17] *** |tsoome| has joined #opensolaris [20:29:20] *** sickness has joined #opensolaris [20:29:34] <Kronuz> stevel: how can I tell which ones are the ones that were kept close? [20:29:49] <stevel> kronuz: http://opensolaris.org/os/about/no_source/ [20:29:50] <Kronuz> is there a list of all drivers saying which ones are open and which ones not? [20:30:01] <Kronuz> oh [20:30:08] <stevel> browse the source to which ones are open :) [20:30:16] <Kronuz> :) [20:30:22] <stevel> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/ [20:30:40] <Kronuz> are most drivers in the non-dependant code? [20:31:04] <stevel> not sure what you mean by non-dependent code [20:32:26] *** jcsmith has quit IRC [20:32:47] <Kronuz> stevel: well, there's SPARC and x64 specific code [20:32:52] <Kronuz> (or x86) [20:33:08] <Kronuz> x86 Platform Files, SPARC Platform Files and Common Files [20:33:09] <stevel> ah, maybe you mean common code [20:33:23] <Kronuz> I was just wondering where most of the drivers are [20:33:32] <stevel> it's all in sun4m ;-) [20:33:35] <stevel> (kidding) [20:33:37] <Kronuz> ... not sure if they're platform dependant [20:33:52] <Kronuz> :P [20:33:53] <Error_404> if you go to http://src.opensolaris.org/source/ you can browse through the source without needing to download it [20:33:58] <stevel> i know we've made a concerted effort to keep things in common; but i don't know what the breakdown is exactly [20:34:14] <Kronuz> Error_404: oh, great! :) [20:34:52] <Error_404> uts/common/ is where the arch independent stuff is [20:36:16] <Error_404> quick glance, i don't see any drivers in there [20:36:42] <Kronuz> me neither [20:36:47] <stevel> go further [20:36:50] <stevel> look in uts/common/io for example [20:37:25] <Error_404> ahh, you are correcrt [20:37:27] <Error_404> correct [20:38:01] <Kronuz> and, say for instance HBA or ethernet card drivers [20:38:12] <Kronuz> should also be there, right? [20:38:17] <Kronuz> but I don't see them [20:38:20] <Error_404> are you looking for a specific driver? [20:38:29] <Kronuz> qlc [20:38:39] <Kronuz> or bge [20:39:00] <stevel> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/io/bge/ [20:39:11] *** Mark__T has joined #opensolaris [20:39:13] <Kronuz> O_O [20:39:16] <stevel> i think qlc is part of nws [20:39:28] <stevel> or maybe it's closed [20:39:29] <stevel> i forget [20:39:32] <Kronuz> how do you know all that? :S [20:39:38] <Kronuz> :P [20:40:00] <stevel> i'm on the opensolaris engineering team at sun [20:40:09] <Kronuz> oh :) [20:40:35] <stevel> when i'm not crashing the website, i try to actually do useful things too [20:41:11] <Error_404> heh [20:41:14] <Kronuz> lol [20:41:53] <Kronuz> hey, I'm looking for the driver with support for Broadcom BCM5708S and Broadcom BCM5706S [20:42:07] <Kronuz> and for Qlogic ISP2422 (but for that I think is the qlc) [20:42:12] *** klocze2 has quit IRC [20:42:40] <Kronuz> I thought the bge was for the BCM57xx, but it seems it doesn't have the 5708 or 5706 [20:42:53] <Kronuz> where do you check thise things... to know what driver has what [20:43:02] <Error_404> i think the 5704 is the only supported one [20:43:12] <stevel> you could use the bcme driver [20:43:16] <stevel> if bge doesn't support it [20:43:32] <stevel> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/hwdata/pci.ids [20:43:33] <stevel> or check that file [20:43:53] <stevel> and match that up against the driver_aliases entries for bge [20:43:54] <axisys> i am using apache only to make the logs available thru browser so that my crawler can find them.. I have only four systems including my crawler to access the http.. is there some performance tuning i should look into? currently i have 7 httpd process running like this http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/xOUX3T74.html [20:44:01] <elektronkind> Kronuz: qlc support the QLC2412-based cards [20:44:03] <Kronuz> I'm having a hard time finding a non-loony system with support for those things [20:44:04] <Kronuz> :( [20:44:20] *** klocze1 has joined #opensolaris [20:44:41] <elektronkind> there's also broadcomm's own bcme driver, which may support hardware that the solaris bge driver doesn't [20:45:26] <Kronuz> bcme... broadcomm's? I suppose it's a closed one [20:46:08] <elektronkind> I think it is closed source... but if you need to have a ethernet interface work, sometimes it doesn't matter if it's open/closed. [20:48:15] <Kronuz> elektronkind: there are two things I'm checking support for: a FC HBA (Qlogic ISP2422) and an ethernet card (Broadcom BCM5706S or BCM5708S) [20:48:43] <Kronuz> 16ac NetXtreme II BCM5708S Gigabit Ethernet [20:48:46] <Kronuz> stevel: from the pci.ids file [20:48:52] <Kronuz> what does that mean? [20:49:01] <Kronuz> 16ac is the ID, right... now what :P [20:49:06] <Kronuz> :-( [20:49:10] *** mrdeviant has left #opensolaris [20:50:16] <Kronuz> there's also 2422 QLA2422 Fibre Channel Adapter [20:50:32] <Kronuz> I guess those two are the ones [20:50:45] <Kronuz> so if it's listed there it should be supported, right? ... or not? [20:51:33] <Kronuz> also there are the PCI-X bridges I needed (HT2000 and HT2100) [20:53:11] *** _william_ has joined #opensolaris [20:54:21] <elektronkind> I use tons of QLA2422 cards with the qlc driver here with no problems. [20:54:42] <elektronkind> including the QLE26xx PCI-E cards [20:54:49] <elektronkind> I use those in our T1000's. [20:55:01] <Kronuz> oh, great! [20:55:10] <elektronkind> all use qlc, with mpxio [20:55:13] <Kronuz> 'cause IBM said it might not be supported :P [20:55:17] <Kronuz> lol [20:55:29] <Kronuz> (if I wasn't using loonix) [20:55:38] <Kronuz> (or winblows) [20:57:17] <Kronuz> well, everything I have in the list seems to be listed there in that pci.ids [20:57:35] <Kronuz> how, if I have the ID, how can I find out what driver uses it? [20:58:30] <Kronuz> hey, that's just a PCI ID's list... [20:58:39] <Kronuz> it seems it doesn't mean it's supported, right? [20:58:46] <Kronuz> "PCI ID's Project" [20:59:23] <elektronkind> look at /etc/driver_aliases [20:59:41] <elektronkind> that tells the kernel which PCI IDs get which driver. [20:59:52] <Kronuz> elektronkind: let me start my solaris box [20:59:58] <_william_> hi all [21:00:05] <Kronuz> 'lo [21:00:41] <Kronuz> elektronkind: they won't all be listed there, are they? [21:00:50] <Kronuz> just the ones I use, I suppose [21:01:00] <elektronkind> if a driver supports a pci id, it's listed there [21:01:01] <Kronuz> so there must be a large file maping the PCI id to a driver [21:01:04] <Kronuz> oh [21:01:05] <elektronkind> bge, qlc [21:01:10] <elektronkind> all of them [21:01:17] <Kronuz> so all of them are listed ... interesting [21:01:33] <elektronkind> [daleg@sympa]~> grep bge /etc/driver_aliases | wc -l [21:01:33] <elektronkind> 37 [21:02:03] <Kronuz> amazing how you guys use tools in the shell :P [21:02:25] <Kronuz> I'm from the windows world... and I'm just recently getting into unix [21:02:38] <Kronuz> windows doesn't have such nice tools :P [21:02:44] <Kronuz> hehe [21:03:24] <elektronkind> heh, well it /can/ with the cywin environment, but since most of the important stuff is in the windows registry... that's kinda hard to work with [21:03:52] <Kronuz> yeah, well I have the native gnu32 tools [21:03:59] <sommerfeld> That's nothing. Yesterday I used: /pkg/gnu/bin/grep -A 2 "CHILD_WORKSPACE (/ws/\ [21:04:00] <sommerfeld> onnv-clone)" /ws/onnv-clone/Codemgr_wsdata/history | grep END | awk '{print $5\ [21:04:00] <sommerfeld> }' | sort -n [21:04:08] <Kronuz> they're nice, but is not the same [21:04:28] <Kronuz> o_O [21:04:49] <sommerfeld> to answer the question "how long does it take for the nightly clone bringover job to complete on average?" [21:05:04] <elektronkind> in time, grasshopper, you too can execute commands like that [21:05:15] *** pikapika has joined #opensolaris [21:05:36] <sommerfeld> Of course, command line editing means that you usually construct such pipelines incrementally... [21:05:51] <Kronuz> elektronkind: could you send me your driver_aliases [21:05:55] <Kronuz> I have an old one :( [21:06:02] <Kronuz> or where can I get it? [21:06:16] <elektronkind> what solaris revision are you working off of? [21:06:28] <pikapika> hello [21:06:42] <Kronuz> 01/06 [21:06:57] <Kronuz> I just hope the new one supports those drivers :S [21:07:08] <Kronuz> (they're not listed there in my driver_aliases) [21:07:12] *** mega has joined #opensolaris [21:07:21] <Kronuz> 164c, 16aa, 16ac [21:08:14] <Kronuz> neither for the other IDs :( [21:08:29] <Kronuz> hey, what has a PCI ID in a computer? [21:08:34] <Kronuz> everything? [21:08:41] <Kronuz> I mean, I'm sure the PCI cards do [21:08:46] <elektronkind> any PCI device [21:08:51] <elektronkind> look at this: [21:08:53] <elektronkind> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/pkgdefs/SUNWbge/postinstall [21:08:54] <Kronuz> but it seems chipsets and other things too [21:09:24] <elektronkind> that's the install script that the bge card driver package uses. The pci id's that it supports are listed there [21:09:39] <Kronuz> regularly around how many PCI IDs are there in any given computer? [21:09:51] <elektronkind> since it's the bge drive package install script which ultimately adds those PCI IDs to the /etc/driver_aliases file [21:09:59] <Kronuz> oh [21:10:27] <elektronkind> Kronuz: there's a PCI ID for every PCI device on the system. I belive that in some odd cases, a single device could have multiple IDs [21:11:00] <elektronkind> much like how each ethernet interface has its own MAC address [21:11:07] <Kronuz> elektronkind: so that a single device can use several drivers, for example? [21:11:52] <Gman> stevel, submitting a paper for the os dev conf? [21:12:03] <Kronuz> so I suppose one can "force" the use of a driver for a particular device by just adding it to the alias list, right? [21:12:10] <elektronkind> yes [21:12:13] <Kronuz> well, anyway... it's not there either :( [21:12:29] <Kronuz> maybe it's in the bcme [21:12:50] <elektronkind> you can get the bcme package from broadcomm's website [21:13:36] <Kronuz> at least the 2422 seems to be supported out of the box :) [21:13:43] <Kronuz> (the QLogic's one) [21:14:03] *** FlaTLyneR has joined #opensolaris [21:14:29] <FlaTLyneR> sup [21:14:32] <elektronkind> heya [21:16:20] <stevel> gman: nope [21:16:24] <stevel> when is it? [21:16:27] *** MattMan has quit IRC [21:18:52] *** Somethingelse has quit IRC [21:19:43] <Gman> stevel, February 27 to March 2, 2007 [21:26:04] <Gman> stevel, would to be good to do one about hg and migration of tools ;) [21:26:37] <Gman> [though i still don't know why the first os conf is in germany and not somewhere like mpk that could guarantee a few more kernel guys] [21:27:16] *** bengtf has quit IRC [21:30:11] *** delewis has joined #opensolaris [21:32:04] *** Kronuz is now known as KronuzAFK [21:33:15] *** FlaTLyneR has quit IRC [21:47:00] <alanc> Gman: because the german group decided to organize it on their own, since we never would [21:47:18] <Gman> we should have [21:51:10] *** KronuzAFK is now known as Kronuz [21:51:15] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [21:51:44] *** solarisjon has left #opensolaris [21:52:41] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [21:52:47] *** axisys has quit IRC [21:53:52] <sommerfeld> the timing is poor for me (non-work commitments on 3 March incompatible with spending 2 march in a european time zone..) [21:59:24] <Gman> sommerfeld, pity [22:00:57] <sommerfeld> (But I'll get a big dose of German in any event -- I'll be in the pit orchestra for a production of Der Rosenkavalier....) [22:03:38] <jbk> I read that as Rosenklavier :) [22:04:08] <jbk> my german is a bit rusty obviously [22:08:18] <sommerfeld> title is sometimes translated into english as The Rose-Bearer. [22:08:33] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris [22:12:38] <moazamraja> where is the conference gonna take place? [22:12:51] <moazamraja> oh [22:12:54] <moazamraja> germany. [22:12:55] <moazamraja> ooooooK [22:16:45] *** printk has quit IRC [22:18:04] <Mark__T> Gman: where is this thing? [22:18:39] <Gman> berlin [22:18:48] <Gman> http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/osdevcon2007/cfp.html [22:19:07] <Mark__T> hm to far for me [22:19:21] <alanc> a german group no one had ever heard of before decided to throw a conference on their own [22:20:21] <alanc> which is both encouraging that random people think OpenSolaris is hot enough they can do that, and a bit discouraging that no one in the community or at Sun could get it together either [22:20:26] <Mark__T> haven't heard of guug before either [22:20:35] <moazamraja> heh [22:20:57] <moazamraja> alanc: I'm not sure why there almost 0 presence at OSCON for opensolaris [22:21:39] <moazamraja> Sun had a booth of some odd sort (with a couch)...but very little was actually SAID about OpenSolaris [22:22:05] <Gman> there was a bof [22:22:33] <Mark__T> bof? [22:22:42] <jengelh> beginning of frame? [22:22:47] <Gman> birds of a feathre [22:22:48] <jengelh> beginning of file. [22:22:49] <moazamraja> birds of a feather [22:22:52] <jengelh> bof <=> eof [22:23:17] <moazamraja> Gman: I didn't know that (or don't remember now)...but I felt there shoulda been a presentation on it...or some part of it, maybe "Building OpenSolaris" or something [22:24:35] <moazamraja> initially I thought the OSCON attendees would be super Pro-Linux and anti-Solaris, but I didn't find that to be the case when I actually mentioned Solaris/OpenSolaris in my own preso [22:24:36] <Gman> stevel wasn't there :) [22:24:54] <Gman> ok bbl, i need to head to the airport :) [22:25:18] *** Gman is now known as GmanAFK [22:25:37] <moazamraja> stevel: yeah, you should totally present at OSCON 2007 [22:28:46] *** mega has quit IRC [22:30:16] *** coffman has joined #opensolaris [22:31:28] *** axisys has joined #opensolaris [22:32:45] <jbk> i was impressed by their presence at LISA last year [22:33:38] <moazamraja> where was that held? [22:33:41] <jbk> i mean, most of the stuff was linux, but there were several solaris classes, plus the bof, plus the vendor show, and the guru session stuff [22:33:44] <jbk> san diego [22:33:46] <moazamraja> ah [22:33:51] <jbk> i'm wondering what sort of attendence they'll get this year [22:34:00] <jbk> (as it's in washington, dc [22:34:02] <moazamraja> I'm a lil surprised that Sun Tech Days are happening, but NONE are in Silicon Valley [22:34:03] <jbk> in december [22:34:04] <moazamraja> unless i read it wrong [22:34:29] <jbk> i mean, san diego in december? how quick can i get there :) [22:34:38] <jbk> being able to wear shorts in december is nice [22:34:42] <moazamraja> where do u live? [22:35:01] <jbk> kansas city [22:35:21] <jbk> not much out here :) [22:35:24] <jbk> and it gets cold [22:35:31] <jbk> (not as bad as some places, but cold enough) [22:36:21] <moazamraja> <-- cupertino, ca [22:36:26] <moazamraja> i.e., santa clara [22:37:40] *** Kronuz has left #opensolaris [22:52:11] *** Mark__T has quit IRC [22:53:04] *** deedaw has joined #opensolaris [22:56:12] <jbk> it's a technology wasteland here unfortunately :( [22:57:56] *** DataStream has quit IRC [22:58:20] <elektronkind> anyone going to be at USENIX in DC ? [22:58:33] <elektronkind> er LISA [22:58:40] <elektronkind> USENIX/LISA [22:58:44] <elektronkind> LISA/USENIX [22:58:47] <jbk> not this year [22:59:00] <jbk> took a minor miracle to go last year [22:59:25] <elektronkind> ah kansas city, eh. I lived in leavenworth as a kid (army) [22:59:30] <jbk> i'm sorry [22:59:31] <jbk> :) [22:59:32] <elektronkind> godforsaken place [22:59:39] <elektronkind> even to a 10 year old [22:59:45] <jbk> i bet [22:59:52] <elektronkind> "oh look mommy! nothing!" [23:00:05] <jbk> and what's that over there? more nothing [23:00:22] <jbk> all we need is a giant flying dog :) [23:00:29] <elektronkind> the buffalo were neat though [23:00:38] <elektronkind> and the prisoners who mowed our lawn [23:00:45] <jbk> hahaha [23:00:46] <moazamraja> wtf. [23:03:01] <jbk> unfortunately, my group apparently has the smallest travel budget of any area (judging by the way mgmt acts if you bring up travel), and they don't believe in sending people to conferences -- they'd rather send everyone to the local in-town var to take the same few classes (solaris nn I admin, solaris nn II admin, solaris network admin, veritas I & II admin) every few years [23:05:36] <jbk> so no LISA or such unless i were to pay for it myself [23:08:52] <stevel> gman: dunno if i can get travel for the osdevcon.. [23:09:58] *** bengtf has quit IRC [23:12:12] *** glagasse has quit IRC [23:12:40] *** foomonkey has joined #opensolaris [23:20:26] *** icon has quit IRC [23:20:48] <moazamraja> stevel: oscon is nearby (portland, or) and ORielly pays a certain amount of your way, i think [23:21:08] <moazamraja> depending on if you are doing a BoF or presentation, or whatever [23:21:41] *** printk has joined #opensolaris [23:23:17] *** ProfMikey has quit IRC [23:23:29] *** ProfMikey has joined #OpenSolaris [23:24:05] <printk> i'm digging new JDS, gnome 2.16 [23:24:23] *** |tsoome| has quit IRC [23:24:49] <jbk> does anything break if you stick the latest vermillion stuff on build 51? [23:24:55] <jbk> i might try to upgrade it tonight [23:25:00] <jbk> as i believe that still has 2.14 [23:25:03] <printk> according to the website you just need svn 50 or above [23:25:04] <stevel> moazamraja: i'll look into it for 2007. my group has sent people in the past (i think kupfer went this past year) [23:25:27] <printk> to upgrade to vermillion53 i mean [23:25:44] <moazamraja> i know Tim Bray was there last year, he presented some stuff [23:25:48] <moazamraja> (from Sun) [23:26:19] <moazamraja> but i didnt see any opensolaris specific stuff [23:27:19] <stevel> i don't know that we had as big as presence this year as we did the year prior [23:28:21] <moazamraja> unfortunately, I heard from some Sun folks that Sun was gonna pull out of OSCON for 2007 :/ [23:28:33] <moazamraja> but that doesnt stop Sun/OpenSolaris ppl from *presenting* [23:28:44] <moazamraja> the pull out is from a marketing/sponsorship perspective [23:29:16] *** solarisjon has joined #opensolaris [23:29:34] <moazamraja> steve__: btw, I showed up at Piatti last night, waited till about 6:45 then dipped...went and hung out with friends in SCA17 instead, I prolly missed you guys by a couple minutes, not sure [23:29:41] <moazamraja> that was for stevel :/ [23:30:07] <stevel> moazamraja: doh! sorry, we all got stuck in heinous traffic and didn't get there till about 6:50 [23:30:12] <moazamraja> ah [23:30:13] <moazamraja> no prob [23:30:24] <stevel> none of us ever commute down 101S, so we totally had no idea what traffic was like [23:30:28] <jbk> taffic in the bay area? [23:30:29] <stevel> it took us 50 minutes to get from MPK to SCA [23:30:32] <jbk> naah [23:30:34] <jbk> :P [23:30:49] <moazamraja> I went to the presentation also...but they were having a ton of difficulties, and i was starving, so we kinda skipped out at like 7:50pm :/ [23:31:06] <stevel> haha [23:31:09] <stevel> yeah, they got rolling around 8 [23:31:10] <dwc-> eew, 101S commute [23:31:13] <stevel> av/concall issues i guess [23:31:31] <moazamraja> stevel: i woulda stuck around..but "power management"....well, not the most exciting topic, unfortunately [23:31:52] <moazamraja> they need to start up some Glassfish users groups or something [23:31:55] <moazamraja> that'd be cool [23:32:23] <stevel> it'd get boring after the first meeting :) [23:32:27] <moazamraja> shhhh :) [23:32:31] <stevel> buncha guys sitting around going "wheee! lookit, i can flip this window around!" [23:32:42] <moazamraja> no no, you're thinking the windowing thing [23:32:53] <moazamraja> Glassfish = the Java EE app server [23:33:06] <printk> i think you're thinking of compiz/berl/xgl whatever ;) [23:33:07] <coffman> gnar [23:33:18] <stevel> ohhhh [23:33:19] <stevel> sorry [23:33:27] *** Kernel86_ has quit IRC [23:33:30] <printk> s/berl/beryl [23:33:31] <stevel> my mistake, got carried over from the lg3d conversation earlier [23:33:36] <stevel> you're right, glassfish would be more interesting [23:33:41] <moazamraja> more like "wheee! lookit, I can deploy this app.....again. and again." [23:33:46] <moazamraja> :P [23:33:59] <coffman> i would love have some more cons around here for *nix. not only that stupid linux meets [23:34:06] <coffman> so boring in germany [23:34:13] <printk> germany is about linux huh? [23:34:30] <stevel> moazamraja: the second meeting would be "whee! lookit, i can redeploy this app... again. and again." [23:34:36] <coffman> seems like it [23:37:21] <elektronkind> I'm surprised that there's not much OpenSolaris-ish going on at LISA in as far as official events go (presentations, BoFs, etc) [23:37:50] <elektronkind> but who am I to talk... it's happening 15 minutes from my house and I'm not even going. [23:38:00] <jbk> elektronkind: there was last year [23:38:19] <coffman> elektronkind: screw u! [23:38:34] <moazamraja> my company/org/manager is anti-conference [23:38:46] <jbk> and the BoF were packed and ran real long [23:38:54] <jbk> due to interest [23:38:55] <moazamraja> i had effin take VACATION time to present at OSCON..that just blew my mind [23:39:24] <elektronkind> that sucks [23:39:34] <dwc-> that sucks, but why shoudl they pay you to not do work at your desk? [23:39:49] <elektronkind> "professional development" [23:39:58] <elektronkind> that's what we put conferences under [23:40:03] <jbk> also [23:40:06] <dwc-> that's funny, I don't get any "professional development" time [23:40:09] <jbk> get's your company name out there [23:40:17] <jbk> so some free advertising [23:40:49] <elektronkind> of course, "professional development" at a conference can also mean networking for a new job [23:41:02] <jbk> or it can mean actually learning new things [23:41:20] <dwc-> depends on whether they care about "free advertising" in an area that doesn't fit their particular business needs [23:41:32] <jbk> i mean, last year at LISA, richard mcdougal and jim mauro had a class on performance tuning in solaris [23:41:50] <jbk> i don't think you're going to get quite the same level of knowledge from the suned performance tuning class :) [23:41:55] <coffman> i guess companies that dont let there people go to cons are affraid to lose there staff to other companies (that they could meet there) [23:42:17] <dwc-> I don't really think that's a major reason [23:42:31] <dwc-> otherwise, they wouldn't let you leave the building at all :) [23:42:46] <coffman> they let u go home? [23:42:47] <coffman> wow [23:42:50] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris [23:42:51] <coffman> ;) [23:43:05] <moazamraja> dwc-: while I was at Sun, they woulda totally paid for it, for MULTIPLE reasons [23:43:09] <dwc-> if their employee retention is that bad, that they're losing employees at conferences [23:43:12] <jbk> coffman: and those companies will never be able to recruit and retain quality people [23:43:23] <dwc-> I don't think conferences is a big thing on their priority list :) [23:43:28] <elektronkind> heh. that can happen any time. I remember when I lived in silicon valley and was at the IPO party for the company was working for there, the place was crawling with recruiters. I got asked several times - at my company's IPO bash - if I was interested in $GREAT_NEW_JOB [23:43:33] *** sch0 has joined #opensolaris [23:43:54] <dwc-> moazamraja: yes, some companies do, some companies don't [23:43:58] <moazamraja> yuhp [23:44:05] <moazamraja> which is fine [23:44:07] <sch0> Looking for a poll? Check out http://www.grupthink.com/topic/index.php5?id=821 (I added OpenSolaris...) [23:44:24] <dwc-> whether they pay for the fees, or pay wages for you to go or not, depends on whether your going fits their business needs (or what they think their business needs are) [23:44:25] <moazamraja> but this company was *not happy* that i was taking 2 of my own vacation days to present at OSCON [23:44:43] <dwc-> they'd have rather you taken vacation to go to hawaii? [23:45:00] <moazamraja> so fine, don't pay for it...o'rielly footed the majority cost anyways, but dont get ticked that i'm taking time off to go [23:45:24] <dwc-> eh, you probably screwed up some project manager's schedule or something :) [23:45:37] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris [23:45:44] <moazamraja> hrmpf. 'twas a rude awakening, either way. [23:45:47] <moazamraja> oh well. [23:45:50] <moazamraja> water under the bridge. [23:46:01] <moazamraja> just not what i was used to, I suppose [23:46:17] <moazamraja> oh well, it's just a job :)