[00:00:12] * timeless tries to remember if f1-a is configured to work on this system
[00:00:15] * timeless thinks it isn't :(
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[00:22:26] <Plaidrab> I don't suppose screen is in /usr/sfw?
[00:22:52] <timeless> it's installabale
[00:23:00] <timeless> although i think i installed it into nexenta instead
[00:23:08] <timeless> you could probably pkgget it :)
[00:24:05] <Plaidrab> I'm sure I could build it. Just lazy
[00:24:22] <timeless> sunfreeware.com
[00:24:37] <cmihai> Plaidrab: well, it is in blastwave iirc.
[00:24:40] <timeless> http://sunfreeware.com/programlistintel10.html#screen
[00:24:43] <cmihai> pkg-get && friends.
[00:25:01] <Plaidrab> I'm staying blastwave free on this particular install
[00:25:15] <timeless> is sunfreeware related to blastwave?
[00:25:39] <alanc> no
[00:26:00] <boyd> Only in the same way that a Porsche is related to a Ferrari
[00:26:01] <alanc> sunfreeware and blastwave are two projects offering similar things
[00:26:11] <Plaidrab> sunfreeware has been around since at least '00
[00:26:18] <eboutilier> Plaidrab: screen binaries are in all the main repos: blastwave, sunfreeware, and companion
[00:27:03] <boyd> MC Escher in google maps: http://tinyurl.com/yb4a59
[00:27:16] <eboutilier> And if you have a build environment handy, it's a really easy build too.
[00:27:32] <boyd> eboutilier: Yeah, with a patch :)
[00:27:50] <richlowe> probably slightly different patches in all of the above, too.
[00:28:05] <timeless> heh
[00:28:16] <timeless> they really need to hack screen for it to buiod?
[00:28:21] <timeless> s/od/ld/\
[00:28:49] <cmihai> Don't forget pkgsrc :P
[00:28:58] <richlowe> The bigger question is whether the needless duplication is worse than the arguments suggesting anything different cause :)
[00:28:59] <eboutilier> boyd: Looking at my notes, I see I did indeed have to patch it.
[00:29:06] <eboutilier> Here's mine:
[00:29:12] <eboutilier> perl -i.orig -lpe 's/$/ || defined(sun)/ if $. == 616' misc.c
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[00:29:33] <Plaidrab> I shoulda thought to go to Sunfreeware. :)
[00:29:38] <Plaidrab> Anyway. It's in now.
[00:30:02] <boyd> eboutilier: Yeah, that looks like the one I use, but mine does more since I ripped it straight out of pkgsrc :)
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[00:31:06] <boyd> timeless: yes, in S10 there is setenv, but the build incorrectly assumes it's the 2 arg version, not the 3 arg
[00:32:19] <timeless> heh
[00:32:28] <eboutilier> richlowe: It'd be very cool to have a central patches repo; from where upstream bug reports could originate too.
[00:32:47] <timeless> eboutilier: didn't the linux distros start talking about doing htat?
[00:32:56] <timeless> s/hta/tha/
[00:33:27] <boyd> eboutilier: I agree... that's kinda what you're getting at in your blog, right?
[00:33:46] <eboutilier> timeless: Not sure, but OpenSolaris is a many, many times less fragmented community, so it's feasible I think.
[00:33:54] <eboutilier> boyd: Yes.
[00:36:17] <Plaidrab> Okay. I found out how to fix enchant, but I don't understand why the fix works.
[00:38:05] * boyd thinks that people who make web pages that change the window size should be shoved into shoeboxes.
[00:38:25] <moazamraja> shoeboxes which are then stapled shut.
[00:38:51] <boyd> ... and then have their size reduced without permission from the occupant
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[00:40:02] <Plaidrab> I had to add a using namespace std; for it to see <cstdio>.
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[00:41:12] <boyd> Meh, that's what you get for using C++ :)
[00:41:28] <twincest> no, that's what you get for writing non-standard code
[00:41:38] <twincest> Standard C++ says <cstdio> puts no identifiers in the global namespace
[00:41:39] <Plaidrab> Actually, I was mistaken, it didn't work.
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[00:42:05] <twincest> (use <stdio.h> if you want identifiers in both std:: and ::)
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[00:42:38] <Plaidrab> Well, that particular fix ( <stdio.h> ) did work, but the author suggested I try the other one.
[00:42:51] <twincest> what identifier in particular causes the problem?
[00:43:33] <twincest> one possible problem is that CC + stlport is more strict than gcc - gcc pollutes the global namespace when you use <cstdio>, and also includes the OS's stdio.h, which provides many non-Standard-C++ symbols
[00:44:36] <twincest> (iirc, gcc's behaviour is allowed by the standard, but it's still unfortunate)
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[00:44:46] <Plaidrab> twincest: FILE :)
[00:45:10] <twincest> hmm, std::FILE should work, or just FILE with using namespace
[00:45:34] <Plaidrab> So it boils down to an interpretation of if the namespace should be polluted or not. :)
[00:46:15] <twincest> well, gcc's behaviour is much easier to implement cross-platform
[00:46:22] <eboutilier> Plaidrab: I just grabbed the enchant 1.1.5 source, set CC to /usr/sfw/bin/gcc and CXX to /usr/sfw/bin/g++...
[00:46:34] <eboutilier> Closed my eyes, hit gmake,  an voila it just built!
[00:46:35] <twincest> <cstdio> just does #include <stdio.h>; namespace std { using ::FILE; using ::fopen; // etc
[00:46:56] <twincest> i guess that's why they do it
[00:47:24] <Plaidrab> eboutilier: Did you rerun automake.sh or just use the existing makefiles or?
[00:47:39] <eboutilier> Plaidrab: sorry, I mean I did ./configure then gmake
[00:47:51] <Plaidrab> but no running autogen?
[00:47:52] <eboutilier> Didn't rerun anything.
[00:47:58] <Plaidrab> Hmm. Maybe that's my problem.
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[00:49:34] <Plaidrab> Oho! I am not trying to use gcc. I'm trying to use Sun's CC
[00:50:58] <Plaidrab> i.e.  /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc and /opt/SUNWspro/bin/CC
[00:52:21] <Plaidrab> Well, i'm starting from a clean tarball just in case.
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[00:53:52] <eboutilier> voila x  2: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Enchant
[00:54:36] <boyd> eboutilier: Nice work
[00:55:02] <Plaidrab> Well, I'm gonna fix that gcc centric buglet. :)
[00:55:03] <eboutilier> :) Many, many bad lines of perl involved.
[00:55:20] <boyd> eboutilier: Is there a reason you pipe gzip to gtar rather than using the gtar -z option?
[00:55:32] * richlowe would guess habit
[00:55:35] <Plaidrab> I'd go with habit. :)
[00:56:12] <eboutilier> boyd: Not really. That's actually is what pkgbuild  invokes internally.
[00:56:28] <boyd> Just wondering
[00:56:43] * twincest always uses gzip | (g)tar
[00:56:44] <Gman> go pkgbuild! :)
[00:56:51] <eboutilier> Laca's pkgbuild stuff comes with this cool thing that extracts the build block from a spec file
[00:56:51] <twincest> easier than remembering which tar i'm using
[00:57:00] * Gman mostly uses gtar
[00:57:26] <Plaidrab> for similar reassons I usually two-step it
[00:57:35] * boyd does tar xvf <( gzip -dc .....) since he remembers half way through
[00:57:41] <eboutilier> So what you see on the wiki originates from that, like this: spectool get_block build SFEenchant.spec
[00:57:46] <timeless> heh
[00:58:39] <boyd> eboutilier: So can I get this straight... the SFE specs only need Studio11? Not the whole JDS build env?
[00:58:42] <eboutilier> Hey Gman
[00:58:57] <twincest> what's an SFE now?
[00:58:58] * eboutilier ponders
[00:59:45] <eboutilier> boyd: You definitely don't need all of the JDS stuff. Just the "CBE" common build environment.
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[01:00:51] <boyd> Ok, so more than just studio.. kay.
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[01:01:19] <Gman> boyd, it's a doddle to set up
[01:01:28] <Gman> though most of that stuff should really be in solaris default
[01:01:31] <eboutilier> Actually though, all you really need is the pkgbuild stuff and then mimic the CBE environment.
[01:01:54] <Gman> pkgbuild is obviously only useful if you want to create packages
[01:01:55] * timeless frowns
[01:02:01] * Gman is anal that he wants to create packages
[01:02:08] * timeless manages to get a screen window to stop painting
[01:02:10] <Gman> [and now that i know how....]
[01:02:18] * timeless can never remember what key (^S?) it is that trigges/undoes it
[01:02:22] <eboutilier> I knocked together this page that outlines the env in case people want to roll their own.
[01:02:29] <twincest> time: ^S, ^Q
[01:02:36] <eboutilier> http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Environment#Summary_of_CBE_Attributes
[01:02:39] <Gman> binarycrusader had some leet scripts to do similar
[01:02:51] <timeless> twincest: is there some magic order guaranteed to fix it? :(
[01:02:59] * timeless usuaully ends up just killing the screeen :(
[01:03:00] <twincest> time: press ^Q
[01:03:03] <boyd> I've been rolling my own with pkgbuild, but I wanted to get started on trying the SFE ones
[01:03:08] <Gman> eboutilier, maybe you should take over the ccd :)
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[01:03:30] <boyd> Where is binarycrusader these days?
[01:03:35] <eboutilier> Gman: Heh.
[01:03:37] <twincest> hm, apparently screen does its own xon/xoff and needs ^Q q
[01:03:40] <Gman> dunno, total MIA
[01:03:58] * timeless frowns
[01:04:07] <timeless> maybe i should just kill the entire screen
[01:04:10] <boyd> He's supposed to spend 6/12 months in Melbourne, but I haven't heard from him since I was last at SOSUG
[01:04:24] <Gman> oh rad
[01:04:25] <eboutilier> Gman: The CCD process etc. is inseparably tied to the SFW  consolidation. That's the thing.
[01:04:38] <Gman> eboutilier, no it isn't
[01:04:44] <Gman> there's no reason for it to be
[01:05:03] <Gman> ccd has no where near the same limitations
[01:05:36] <boyd> I'm not sure that the idea of an actual CD (or other fixed media) is so relevant these days
[01:05:38] <eboutilier> The choir politely listens as it is being preached to. :-)
[01:05:48] <Gman> heh
[01:05:52] <eboutilier> :)
[01:05:53] <timeless> boyd: it's handy
[01:05:54] <Gman> so, first things first
[01:05:59] <timeless> not all of us have network access that works
[01:06:04] <Gman> get all the packages that are currently available in ccd and move them to SFE
[01:06:05] <twincest> the CCD isn't even a CD anymore
[01:06:13] <boyd> timeless: Sure, but only for about 2 months. then it's out of date
[01:06:23] <timeless> boyd: i use rewritable media
[01:06:25] <timeless> it doesn't bother me
[01:06:36] <timeless> i rewrite the snv_XX dvd each time i install
[01:06:38] <twincest> timeless: they don't make newer CCDs even if you do use rewritable media
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[01:06:50] <Gman> eboutilier, i'm reluctant because i'm already stirring with poo ;)
[01:06:56] <twincest> snv releases don't update it
[01:06:57] <timeless> twincest: eh?
[01:06:58] <Gman> someone else should jfdi
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[01:07:11] <Gman> pants off Tpenta
[01:07:14] <eboutilier> gman: Speaking of poo, I shurnk my head and mailed it to you.
[01:07:14] <timeless> talking across netsplits suck :(
[01:07:21] <Tpenta> err ummm?
[01:07:22] * boyd tries to get the image of gman stirring with poo out of his head
[01:07:22] <twincest> timeless: the companion CD is not updated for new nevada releases
[01:07:24] <timeless> if you eman that they haven't updated ccd
[01:07:32] <Gman> eboutilier, i saw - haven't had chance to update it, though it's likely you could do it yourself
[01:07:40] <timeless> boyd's complaining that it doesn't get updated
[01:07:47] <Tpenta> actually  I have some  more crap to post to p.o.o. :)
[01:07:49] <timeless> or at least that's the implication i hear from his comment
[01:07:50] <richlowe> I don't think the "consolidate the freeware" discussion is likely to get anywhere but another unreadable argument.
[01:07:57] <boyd> timeless: Yes
[01:07:58] <twincest> timeless: yes..
[01:08:01] <eboutilier> I can update poo?
[01:08:16] <Gman> eboutilier, well you're a tonic dude, so there's a chance if you know the right things
[01:08:16] <timeless> being able to download a convenient cd image every month or whatever
[01:08:23] <timeless> i don't see how that hurts anyone
[01:08:32] <twincest> but it's not updated every month
[01:08:33] <timeless> unless some poor person has to spend a lot of effort doing the maintenance
[01:08:37] <Tpenta> well i can update the blog and it sill get (screen) wiped to p.o.o.  (hmmm ithink I'm pushing the joke a bit far)
[01:08:40] <timeless> twincest: this i understand
[01:08:57] <richlowe> You shouldn't have to push it, more fibre!
[01:08:57] <eboutilier> Hmm
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[01:09:20] * timeless tries to figure out how tpenta's screen parenthetical relates to his hung screen
[01:09:25] <Gman> eboutilier, goto staging server, su - planet
[01:09:34] <eboutilier> Tpenta: We need more people to put their head in the poo
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[01:09:44] * Tpenta was answering erics question about "updating p.o.o"
[01:09:53] <perry131> anyone know of a good beginners guide to opensolaris?
[01:09:53] <twincest> what's p.o.o?
[01:09:58] <Gman> ohboywhathaveicreated?
[01:09:59] <eboutilier> You have shell access to staging server? Lucky.
[01:10:04] <Tpenta> planet.opensolaris.org
[01:10:05] <timeless> planet.{whatever}
[01:10:10] <Gman> eboutilier, ah, ok, i'll do it myself now
[01:11:14] <onbot> commit by danmcd:  6478675 inconsistent ESP padding verification in OpenSolaris; Contributed by Jean-Paul Degabriele <jeanpaul.degabriele at gmail dot com>.; 6481387 Freed queue_t gets passed to ipsec_log_policy_failure() during OPL ttcp runs...; 6494630 qs21 may be validating cert chains incorrectly.
[01:11:15] * boyd refrains from mentioning that someone should be taking a dump of poo
[01:11:23] <Tpenta> Gman:  you have not fixed access to /heads on poo
[01:11:26] <eboutilier> LOL
[01:11:42] <Gman> Tpenta, yeah, i need to do that too
[01:12:40] <perry131> anyone know of a good beginners guide to opensolaris?
[01:12:54] <eboutilier> perry131: Nexenta?
[01:12:59] <Plaidrab> Aside from any decent Solaris 10 guide?
[01:13:06] <eboutilier> Unless you haven't used Linux that is.
[01:13:06] <perry131> Plaidrab: or that
[01:13:17] <perry131> I have used *nix for about 7 years
[01:13:24] <perry131> but I just installed OpenSolari
[01:13:25] <perry131> s
[01:13:31] <Tpenta> gman, should I have referred to http://planet.opensolaris.org/heads a a bunch of sh*t heads?
[01:13:39] <Plaidrab> Have you used Solaris, though? :)
[01:13:46] <Tpenta> this could get really bad
[01:13:55] <perry131> Plaidrab: no
[01:13:56] <Plaidrab> It's a little odd. A little BSD. A little SYS. A little special sauce
[01:14:05] <perry131> hrm
[01:14:15] <Plaidrab> Find a good Solaris 10 book then.
[01:14:19] <perry131> does it come with all the compiling tools?
[01:14:24] <jengelh> go http://docs.sun.com/ :)
[01:14:27] <perry131> alright
[01:14:29] <perry131> that works
[01:14:32] <perry131> thanks
[01:14:45] <Plaidrab> I don't recall anything beginnery there. Musta missed it
[01:14:50] <Tpenta> docs.sun.com works? that's unusual
[01:14:58] <Tpenta> </sarcasm>
[01:15:02] <perry131> heh
[01:15:11] <Plaidrab> Hee
[01:15:14] <perry131> well, if thats the best there is, so be it
[01:15:33] <Tpenta> actually docs is pretty damned impressive
[01:16:15] <Tpenta> Gman: I guess the next tow popular posters to do would be benr and jimgris
[01:16:29] <Tpenta> and perhaps jamesd
[01:16:54] <Plaidrab> It's got a lot of good stuff I just always have a hard time finding what is relevant.
[01:17:03] <Plaidrab> I usually google my way in, to be honest
[01:17:15] <boyd> Yeah, some of the docs can be a little like a Choose your own Adventure book
[01:18:00] <Plaidrab> The site's been like that ever since they moved to the portal software.
[01:18:38] <eboutilier> I guess if I had to pick one starting point for a begginer, it'd be http://sun.com/bigadmin
[01:18:57] <Plaidrab> I miss access to superteam, personally
[01:19:03] <timeless> offtopic, anyone here ever sent/received a gpg encrypted attachment?
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[01:19:25] <Plaidrab> yes
[01:19:43] <Plaidrab> Wait, no. PGP. gpg I've only done signed
[01:22:37] <Gman> Tpenta, seemingly stevel has done a bit of work on this - http://planet.opensolaris.org/heads.html
[01:23:06] * boyd always liked stevel's one
[01:23:15] <Gman> yeah, steve's one rocks
[01:23:24] <boyd> That page of heads is a little.... creepy
[01:24:34] <Gman> http://planet.gnome.org/heads/
[01:24:39] <Gman> that should give you the willies too :)
[01:24:48] <richlowe> Gman: how come sch has shoulders? :)
[01:24:59] <Gman> he wanted to have a tie in the frame ;)
[01:25:14] <Gman> and given he gimped up his own, i figured it was good enough
[01:26:02] <boyd> He could have wrapped the tie around his head
[01:26:41] <Gman> well you know what his nick is to ask the next time ;)
[01:26:51] <stevel> eboutilier: you don't have access to tonic-push?
[01:27:14] <stevel> boyd: thanks :)
[01:27:15] <eboutilier> stevel: Not that I know of
[01:27:40] <stevel> try ssh'ing to tonic-push.sfbay
[01:28:20] <eboutilier> Well, that means I'd have to get on SWAN first. I spend 90% of my time off-SWAN -- much faster.
[01:28:27] <stevel> ah, okay
[01:28:30] <eboutilier> Anyway, I'll give it try
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[01:28:54] <Gman> eboutilier obviously doesn't look at bugs much :)
[01:29:13] <stevel> boyd: that's my fiancee giving me the smack
[01:29:26] <boyd> fiancee? Get used to is :)
[01:29:28] <Gman> clearly a good woman
[01:29:29] <boyd> it
[01:29:33] <Plaidrab> : chuckles at eboutilier.
[01:29:51] <stevel> when you look at the heads page, it looks like webmink has jaundice
[01:29:58] <Plaidrab> I thought the sfbay domain was going away?
[01:30:05] <stevel> his photo has a lot more yellow-tone than everyone else :)
[01:30:33] <Gman> yeah, that could be my fault ;)
[01:30:34] <Plaidrab> I had to giggle. I got some spam a week or so back purporting to be from an eng. box
[01:30:36] <Gman> though i like his hackergotchi
[01:30:47] <stevel> yeah i do too
[01:30:52] <stevel> it's a good pic of him
[01:31:07] <alanc> sfbay.sun.com and eng.sun.com will be around as long as there is a sun.com
[01:31:08] * Gman reduced the darkness of the drop shadow a little
[01:31:24] <richlowe> barring earthquakes.
[01:31:31] <richlowe> or do you just intend to move it east city by city? :)
[01:32:01] <Plaidrab> Maybe I am remembering backwards. I thought sfbay and eng were supposed to consolidate into ebay
[01:32:13] <alanc> oh, the machines may all be in the colorado data center, but the names will remain so we don't have to fix all the links
[01:32:21] <alanc> ebay & eng were supposed to consolidate into sfbay
[01:32:37] <alanc> they finally shot the IT people who decided to do that
[01:32:37] <Plaidrab> That sounds more sensible.
[01:32:38] <boyd> What exactly does "ebay" stand for anyway? East Bay?
[01:32:39] <stevel> we need a ghetto domain
[01:32:42] <stevel> crackhouse.ghetto.sun.com
[01:32:49] <Plaidrab> Yeah. East bay
[01:32:54] * boyd nods
[01:32:57] <benr> anyone familiar with NFS on Mac OS X Server?
[01:32:59] <alanc> yes, ebay was "East Bay", back when sun had offices there
[01:33:08] <boyd> Hi benr
[01:33:11] <benr> hey boyd
[01:33:13] <delewis> benr, is it any different than on OS X?
[01:33:14] <alanc> pretty much all gone with the closures of the Milpitas & Newark campuses
[01:33:15] <Plaidrab> : actually had an iPlanet domain.
[01:33:30] <benr> delewis, besides the fact that you don't have the Finder (CLI only), not really.
[01:33:39] <stevel> it's debatable whether milpitas is considered east bay or not.  i don't consider it to be ebay
[01:33:40] <Plaidrab> Did they close the SCA12-21 buildings?
[01:33:45] <delewis> benr, yeah, I figured. Did they at least enable Kerberos encapsulation?
[01:33:54] <Tpenta> benr: we need a head from you for p.o.o :)
[01:33:55] <delewis> on OS X they, specifically, disabled it.
[01:33:56] <benr> delewis, dunno.
[01:33:57] <Plaidrab> Though SCA12-14 were just shells when I left
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[01:34:06] <alanc> SCA & MPK are the two Sun campuses in the bay area now
[01:34:11] <benr> Tpenta, :)
[01:34:12] <stevel> tpenta: i think benr's should be the full thing... you have to get his kilt in there
[01:34:21] <pitty> i have a weird question.. what's the key to building software from source? Is knowledge of C always necessary
[01:34:28] <Tpenta> that's what i was thinking, like that full size one on the gnome page
[01:34:31] <benr> Tpenta, POO?
[01:34:40] <Tpenta> planet.opensolaris.org
[01:34:47] <Plaidrab> It boggles me, at times, i can't remember my extension at the job I've been at a year but I can still remember my mail info and SunID from 5 years ago
[01:34:49] <Tpenta> where the crap is aggergated :)
[01:34:57] <Plaidrab> Must be wistful thinking I might go back. heh
[01:35:33] <benr> ickie... no pictures.
[01:36:44] <hile_> howdy benr
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[01:37:22] <timeless> so, are there any magic keys other than f1-a and ctrl-alt-backspacE?
[01:37:27] <timeless> i think i want m computer back
[01:37:28] <benr> hey hile_
[01:37:35] <Plaidrab> stop-a? :)
[01:37:53] <timeless> i don't have a sparc keyboard
[01:38:01] <timeless> (or a sparc for that matter)
[01:38:06] <Plaidrab> Well, that certainly makes it more difficult
[01:38:17] <Plaidrab> You should get one.
[01:38:19] <Plaidrab> :)
[01:38:33] <alanc> need both to use stop-a
[01:39:09] <timeless> ok, neither of those work
[01:39:16] <timeless> i guess it's time to kill my box
[01:39:22] <Plaidrab> Well, I've used terminal concentrators that could fake a stop A
[01:39:27] <alanc> f1-a only works if you are running in kernel debugger - and since it doesn't take the console back to text mode, helps to have console on a serial port so you can see it
[01:39:33] <timeless> when i bring it up, i'll use -k so that next time i'll have a chance to use f1-a
[01:39:42] <richlowe> Hm, it maybe possible to add stop-a as an F1-a alternative.
[01:39:43] <Plaidrab> You could log into the Alom and issue a break...
[01:39:44] <timeless> oh
[01:39:50] <alanc> otherwise when you hit f1-a, you're typing blind
[01:39:59] <richlowe> alanc: adds to the fun.
[01:40:00] <timeless> that didn't occur to me
[01:40:13] <timeless> assume f1-a worked (not likely)
[01:40:19] <timeless> how do i get it to beep at me?
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[01:41:04] <gisburn> !seen kupfer
[01:41:06] <Drone> kupfer (kupfer!i=kupfer@nat/sun/x-4f49b394ec6833e8) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 08 Nov 2006 23:13 GMT, saying 'hi Rich.  thanks for forwarding me the tools list.'.
[01:41:26] * gisburn thinks that the /topic looks a little bit... RISC-like and cryptic.
[01:41:59] <Plaidrab> Enchant is fixed, so far as the speller in question, but it does require gmake instead of the system make.
[01:42:33] <Plaidrab> I've informed dom, I'm sure he'll roll it into the cvs and the next release
[01:42:44] <timeless> can you make a makefile which when run w/ the wrong make it reruns itself w/ the one it likes? :)
[01:43:03] <richlowe> you can somewhat rely on gmake looking for GNUMakefile first.
[01:43:27] <Plaidrab> That's a thought. :)
[01:44:01] <timeless> ok, so i'm going to give up on blind typing and kill my box
[01:44:12] <timeless> do workstations ever really use power management?
[01:44:34] <Plaidrab> I did
[01:44:38] <richlowe> timeless: you could type ::systemdump blind, and get a crash dump.
[01:44:45] <richlowe> timeless: if you have a dump device, and you're going to take it down anyway...
[01:44:46] <Plaidrab> I used the annoying power button all the time
[01:44:54] <timeless> i have a dump device
[01:45:17] <timeless> if it works, will i hear anything or will it do anything remotely recognizable?
[01:45:18] <richlowe> that does assume you're typing blind at kmdb however, and do be aware it forces a panic :)
[01:45:35] <timeless> yeah well, as long as i get a console or it reboots i don't care
[01:45:48] <timeless> anyway, i don't really hear anything
[01:45:52] <timeless> i'm assuming that didn't work
[01:46:07] <timeless> what logs would i check when i reboot to find out why this computer gave up on me :)
[01:46:10] * hile_ falls over
[01:46:27] * timeless is used to a /var/log/syslog.old
[01:48:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[01:49:27] <Error_404> yum! fruit soup!
[01:49:44] <timeless> ok, i suspect i got my computer stuck somewhere
[01:49:56] <Plaidrab> Hmm. The makefile seems to be working now as well. I musta had something fouled up before
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[01:53:27] * timeless frowns
[01:53:43] <timeless> id/addr/flg/nrun/bspl/pri/rnrn/krnrn/switch/thread/proc
[01:54:07] <timeless> 1/../1b/0/0/108/no/no/t-1/../sched
[01:54:14] <timeless> err 0
[01:54:38] <timeless> 2/../1b/0/0/60/no/no/t-0/../sched
[01:54:43] <timeless> the other two claim to be idle
[01:56:19] <timeless> oh well, x11 laoded
[01:59:30] <Tpenta> Gman: could I possibly get you to change my p.o.o feed to pull from my OpenSolaris topic from b.s.c?
[01:59:41] <Tpenta> that way only relevant stuff will go to the planet
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[02:00:18] <Gman> Tpenta, ok, what's the atom feed?
[02:01:25] <Plaidrab> Okay. Enchant will build and install with the system make.
[02:01:26] <Tpenta> you shoudl listen to the latest lugradio, tey have a long discussion about planets
[02:01:29] <Tpenta> and relevancy
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[02:01:35] <Tpenta> eg "I dont care about your cat"
[02:01:38] <Gman> Tpenta, heh
[02:02:31] * gisburn wishes dmake would be part of opensolaris...
[02:02:50] <Tpenta> hmmm, the new stuff makes finding teh feeds more tricky
[02:03:06] <Gman> Tpenta, though i sort like the people aspect of it
[02:03:17] <Gman> personally gives me a much better idea of who i'm working with
[02:04:34] <Gman> hrm, looks like atom?cat=OpenSolaris
[02:05:13] * timeless wonders what sysevent might move into maintenance
[02:07:15] <Plaidrab> is there a name for the milestone before the single user one?
[02:09:11] <Plaidrab> I'm currently in the "Sol10 for Advanced" update class and the instructor said he's managed to disable all the milestones and boot up into a rescuable mode, but had no idea what it was labeled
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[02:11:46] * timeless doesn't get it
[02:11:57] <Plaidrab> Get what?
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[02:12:22] <timeless> why the sysevent service in my nexenta zone went into maintenance mode
[02:12:31] <twincest> i don't think the maintenance state before single-user is a milestone
[02:13:35] * timeless wonders if  /etc/sysevent/syseventd_lock is important
[02:14:06] <timeless> what is /etc/sysevent/syseventd_daemon.lock ?
[02:14:36] <timeless> the man page mentions it, but the only thing i see is /etc/sysevent/syseventd_lock
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[02:15:11] * timeless assumes the man page is wrong :)
[02:17:06] <timeless> hrm
[02:17:43] <timeless> are the man pages in src.opensolaris.org?
[02:17:52] <Plaidrab> I dunno
[02:17:59] <timeless> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/syseventd/daemons/syseventd/syseventd.c#96
[02:18:01] <timeless> is the code
[02:18:23] <timeless> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-0211/6m6nc678m?a=view
[02:18:30] <timeless> mentions a different file
[02:18:56] <timeless> and my snv_49 has a man page that matches
[02:18:56] <timeless> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-5166/6mbb1kqii?a=view
[02:23:31] <elektronkind> so the other day I turned on greylisting on my email servers. oh. my. god. the spam has all but stopped.
[02:23:40] *** bobbyz has quit IRC
[02:23:57] <elektronkind> that plus spamassassin plus copious rbl lookups = pretty much spam free
[02:24:50] <timeless> ok
[02:24:57] <timeless> i think i can reproduce killing my computer :)
[02:25:28] <Stric> GL still helps a whole bunch
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[02:26:05] <Stric> although, 2 years ago, it helped much more.. but it's still the most efficient spam killer I've seen
[02:26:38] <elektronkind> indeed
[02:26:45] <elektronkind> I'm loving it
[02:26:53] <timeless> ok, cute
[02:26:57] <timeless> ufs`ufs_pageio
[02:27:10] <timeless> is that a good/useful thing for me to be in?
[02:27:27] * timeless goes off to try to find out what that does
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[02:28:44] <pitty> is there another way other than "isainfo " to tell if your server is 32 or 64 bit arch ?
[02:29:11] <pitty> uname -a just returns i686 but i was expecting something like x64
[02:29:31] <elektronkind> isainfo -b is the most reliable way
[02:30:06] <elektronkind> I can't think of any other way
[02:30:07] * timeless tends to keep bhami.com/rosetta.html handy
[02:30:22] <elektronkind> other than, say, querying the kernel directly with mdb
[02:30:56] <elektronkind> "x64" is more marketting-speak I think
[02:31:13] <elektronkind> and not a "Real" archetecture
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[02:32:17] <timeless> hrm
[02:33:06] <timeless> so, i think i have an app that's just allocating memory in some expensive manner
[02:33:20] <timeless> but i don't understand why that would cause my system to crawl
[02:33:37] <timeless> the app is living in a zone and is running as a normal user
[02:35:40] * timeless wonders how to kill a process from kmdb
[02:36:24] <pitty> maybe i am getting confused with linux X86_x64
[02:36:55] <pitty> it returns that on x64 rhel servers but on solaris i guess isainfo -b is it
[02:37:27] <elektronkind> each OS has it's own terminology standards
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[02:37:39] <timeless> rosetta :)
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[02:41:25] <pitty> yeah, i guess so
[02:41:34] <pitty> signing off, good night
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[02:44:48] <timeless> hrm
[02:44:57] <timeless> pageout is one of my processes
[02:45:36] * timeless wonders if it's possible to reconfigure a zone from kmdb to have a physical memory limit of say 2g
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[02:55:33] <Tpenta> ahhh, i see a new episode of ps pipe grep, benr
[02:55:42] <timeless> ?
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[02:56:53] <astinus> run into more NFS issues tonight - I can't seem to bring nfs/server online; getting RPC Error 15 (Program Not Registered) because mountd isn't starting. Does anyone know where I should look to determine cause?
[02:57:22] <benr> Tpenta, every week.
[02:57:29] <astinus> I'm sharing stuff using 'zfs set sharenfs=ro pool/....'
[02:57:32] <timeless> can someone suggest an aritcle that explains how to setup a zone w/ memory limits?
[02:57:32] <benr> Tpenta, the one 2 weeks ago got me in trouble with Simon. :)
[02:57:44] <Tpenta> svcs -a|grep nfs    # would probably be a good start
[02:57:58] <Gman> benr, what did you say? :)
[02:58:01] <astinus> Tpenta: shows as offline, everything else (deps) are online
[02:58:02] <benr> timeless, limiting memory consuption in zones is current handled by projects.
[02:58:24] <timeless> projects?
[02:58:31] * timeless doesn't understand
[02:58:34] <Tpenta> which shows as offline?
[02:58:43] <timeless> prctl -n project ?
[02:58:50] <benr> timeless, /etc/projects
[02:58:59] <astinus> Tpenta: nfs/server is offline, nfs/rquota is uninitialized
[02:59:00] <benr> timeless, managed within the zone using rcapd.
[02:59:03] <timeless> in the zone?
[02:59:06] <timeless> ok
[02:59:12] <benr> man rcapd
[02:59:17] <astinus> Tpenta: issuing 'svcadm enable nfs/server' or 'svcadm restart nfs/server' does nowt
[02:59:19] <Tpenta> svcadm enable nfs/server
[02:59:20] <benr> memory capping sucks ass atm.
[02:59:22] <timeless> hrm
[02:59:25] <timeless> problem
[02:59:28] <benr> timeless, how so?
[02:59:30] <timeless> i don't seem to have rcapd
[02:59:35] <astinus> it just remains offline :x
[02:59:44] <benr> timeless, need to install SUNWrcapu
[03:00:07] <Tpenta> svcs -xv nfs/server
[03:00:16] <timeless> is there something like a consolidation or magic thing to install all zone management tools?
[03:00:28] <astinus> Reason: Service svc:/network/rpc/gss:default is uninitialized.
[03:00:29] <astinus> aha!
[03:00:50] <benr> timeless, its not technically a zone management tool, its a solaris feature.
[03:00:53] <benr> same goes for dtrace.
[03:00:55] <Tpenta> score one for smf :)
[03:01:02] <benr> so, if the closest would be SUNWall :)
[03:01:13] <timeless> hrm
[03:01:18] <timeless> i have a 4g / partition
[03:01:26] <timeless> is there space for SUNWall ?
[03:01:33] <astinus> Tpenta: you're a start.
[03:01:34] <astinus> *star
[03:01:36] <timeless> <1/2g available on /
[03:01:41] <Tpenta> :)
[03:01:42] <astinus> works fine now, inetd had stopped, which knocked GSS offline
[03:01:44] <benr> timeless, a full install is around 2.something gigs i believe.
[03:01:59] <astinus> domino effect
[03:02:02] <benr> timeless, so for how probly just install that one package.
[03:02:09] <astinus> which I couldn't see until I used 'svcs -xv'
[03:02:18] <Tpenta> you might also want to have a look at svcs -x
[03:02:27] <benr> 'svcs -vx' is the best command in Solaris imho
[03:02:32] <astinus> seems empty now :)
[03:02:35] <benr> that and 'fmadmin faulty'
[03:02:41] <astinus> gawd knows why inetd was being a muppet
[03:02:45] * astinus kicks
[03:03:08] <timeless> oh man
[03:03:11] <astinus> #opensolaris saves the day, yet again :)
[03:03:14] * timeless makes a mental note not to type mount
[03:03:25] <benr> timeless,  why?
[03:03:40] <timeless> because i have 3 shy of 500 mounted things :)
[03:03:52] <astinus> benr: If you use ZFS and have *lots* of pools and stuff, it kinda hurts ;)
[03:03:57] <benr> timeless, that few? :)
[03:04:09] <benr> astinus, pfffft.
[03:04:15] <timeless> i only have one pool, just lots of volumes
[03:04:28] <timeless> i was planning on consolidating now that i have more space in my pool
[03:04:47] <boyd> timeless: So , what are you on a 300bps line or something?
[03:04:52] <benr> astinus, let me know if you wanna see a big pool at some point. ;)
[03:04:53] <timeless> but i'm having trouble proving to myself that my consolidated version matches the fragmented one (df says they have different space)
[03:05:04] <timeless> boyd: console... just means i lose all context
[03:05:09] <timeless> and definitley don't find whatever i wanted
[03:05:10] <astinus> benr: ZFS clustering would be cool, you could pool a few Thumpers :D
[03:05:23] <boyd> timeless: | grep
[03:05:26] <timeless> yeah yeah
[03:05:32] <timeless> i still lost my scrollback
[03:05:41] <timeless> not that console has scrollback (afaik)
[03:05:48] <timeless> swift# pwd
[03:05:51] <benr> astinus, i'm not at liberty to discuss such things.
[03:05:53] <benr> :)
[03:06:00] <timeless> /cdrom/sol_11_x86/Solaris_11/Product/SUNWrcapr
[03:06:07] <timeless> can i pkgadd -d . ?
[03:06:23] <benr> pkgadd -d . SUNWrcap*
[03:06:40] <boyd> Yowza! /me updates his mac thanks to the latest security advisory
[03:07:04] * timeless wonders why it didn't work before
[03:08:08] <timeless> ok, i suspect i need to read about projects :(
[03:08:36] <benr> timeless, you should read the Contain guide on docs.sun.com
[03:08:45] <benr> timeless, first half is on resource management, second is zones.
[03:09:13] <benr> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-1592
[03:09:26] <richlowe> many many filesystems certainly hit boot times pretty hard.
[03:09:31] <benr> timeless, what you want to keep your ear out for is Project Duckhorn.
[03:09:44] <benr> richlowe, definately.
[03:09:59] <benr> richlowe, 3000 filesystems on one system caused it to take almost 1hr to boot.
[03:10:03] <timeless> richlowe: is 500 many?
[03:10:06] <timeless> benr: ouch
[03:10:17] * timeless really will try to reduce them
[03:10:31] <benr> supposedly its been fixed in post-B45 releases, but I haven't tested it.
[03:10:48] <richlowe> benr: really?
[03:10:59] * timeless is using 49
[03:11:03] <richlowe> benr: It wasn't quite *that* bad.
[03:11:04] <benr> richlowe, so says Jeff and Bill.
[03:11:07] <richlowe> Oh, ah, yeah, I tried post b45.
[03:11:09] <timeless> boot time isn't anywhere near that bad,
[03:11:20] <benr> richlowe, ya, this 1hr boot was on B43.
[03:12:05] <boyd> Now if only the shutdown time on x86 could shrink. Why *is* it so long?
[03:12:15] <richlowe> boot archive update?
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[03:12:30] <benr> my reboot times aren't that bad.
[03:12:33] <boyd> Could be... didn't it used to say it was doing that though?
[03:12:36] <Error_404> boyd: that's a good question
[03:12:38] <benr> running bootadm manually definately does help.
[03:12:48] <boyd> Some progress message would be nice
[03:13:00] <benr> boyd, ya, it'll tell you if its updating.
[03:13:24] <boyd> That's what I thought... And that happened before init returns to the shell
[03:13:33] <boyd> The delay I see is after that
[03:13:39] * benr shrugs
[03:13:48] <benr> the system might be dumping core.
[03:13:52] <boyd>  in the "70 system services are being shut down" time
[03:13:53] <benr> have you checked /var/crash?
[03:13:54] <boyd> :)
[03:13:59] <boyd> benr: It's not
[03:14:16] <benr> odd.... boot in verbose.
[03:14:23] <benr> thats the best I could think of for finding the culprate.
[03:14:30] <benr> or massive SMF log analysis.
[03:14:37] * benr runs off to dinner.
[03:14:39] * boyd sighs.. I think you may be right
[03:15:09] <movement> what version of solaris?
[03:15:19] <boyd> Any recent build ... b51 ATM
[03:17:24] *** stevel has quit IRC
[03:18:05] * boyd reboots his laptop for a security update
[03:22:09] *** fred343 has quit IRC
[03:23:31] <boyd> Anyone know of a decent open source CA?
[03:23:38] <twincest> we use cacert.org
[03:23:53] <boyd> Actually, I was after an in-house one
[03:23:57] <twincest> ah
[03:25:23] <Plaidrab> There is one in the JES stack
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[03:26:45] <boyd> Really? I find determining the content of that somewhat hard. What's it called? Sun Java Enterprise Security and Authentication and Administrative Enablement Server?
[03:27:37] <Plaidrab> I honestly don't know which subpiece it is.
[03:27:53] <Plaidrab> I have had it confirmed by folks using the whole kit it is in there though
[03:28:16] <Plaidrab> The bastards in charge of naming oft need to be taken out back and beaten
[03:28:20] <Plaidrab> :)
[03:29:22] *** dunc_ has quit IRC
[03:29:31] <Plaidrab> Since I was only looking for the one piece at the time I reacted rather as I imagine you are now. "Well, That was almost as helpful as it was unhelpful..."
[03:31:45] <Plaidrab> Ultimately I ended up using a self-signed certificate. We only needed it for TLS/SSL Ldap, so it wasn't as big a deal
[03:33:09] <boyd> Hmm.
[03:38:54] <boyd> For what I need I'm using openssl on the command line ATM
[03:43:50] *** bobbyz has quit IRC
[03:45:21] * jmcp hits the code again
[03:45:22] <jmcp> back later folks
[03:46:45] <boyd> bah... can't code and IRC at the same time.... what, are you trying to concentrate?
[03:47:18] <timeless> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1650
[03:47:27] * timeless can't figure out what to do
[03:48:30] <richlowe> check your other logs?
[03:48:38] <richlowe> attach a debugger?
[03:48:56] <timeless> which other logs?
[03:49:33] <richlowe> messages, syslog, see if sysevent logged anything before it vanished?
[03:49:48] <timeless> syslog is empty
[03:50:15] <timeless> Nov 29 16:45:38 nexenta syslogd: line 45: WARNING: loghost could not be resolved
[03:50:16] <timeless> Nov 29 16:47:13 nexenta syseventd[1166]: [ID 221228 daemon.error] unable to open
[03:50:16] <timeless>  channel to syseventconfd
[03:50:46] <timeless> Nov 29 16:47:13 nexenta syseventd[1166]: [ID 600323 daemon.error] Invalid ops vector for module 'sysevent_conf_mod.so'
[03:52:01] <Tpenta> oi, stevel
[03:52:39] <Tpenta>    3 drwxr-xr-x   2 stevel   staff         13 Nov 28 06:46 /export/dlc/dlc_files/on/downloads/20061127
[03:52:49] <Tpenta> write permission pls?
[03:53:05] <Tpenta> damn, he's not there
[03:54:04] <boyd> chmod go+w /export/dlc/dlc_files/on/downloads/20061127
[03:54:13] * boyd shrugs... I did what I could
[03:54:19] <Tpenta> :)
[03:57:08] <timeless> ok, i see a syseventconfd, but it doesn't seem to actually stick around
[04:00:51] <Tpenta> http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta/entry/20061127_non-debug_on_encumbered_binaries
[04:01:27] <Tpenta> damn, just missed teh planet :)
[04:01:44] <Tpenta> which for those not in the know is the serect to flying ;) ie throw yourself at the planet and miss
[04:01:45] <boyd> Hehe... "Posted at 02:00PM"
[04:01:55] <timeless> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1651
[04:03:44] <timeless> i understand that doors are basically the way apps talk to the system/services
[04:04:33] <boyd> syndrome71: ping
[04:04:42] <Tpenta> he is steaking at the pub
[04:04:49] <boyd> Sheesh
[04:05:05] <boyd> Do you mind signalling me when he's back
[04:05:06] <boyd> ?
[04:06:00] * boyd farms out the polling to the IO controller Tpenta
[04:06:10] <timeless> heh
[04:06:21] <Tpenta> you could ring his mobile :)
[04:06:37] <boyd> I think he may need to look up an answer for me
[04:06:38] <timeless> so, does this unable to establish door thing mean that part of my file system has a bad file/missing file/bad permissions?
[04:07:44] <boyd> Could be... could also be that the operation is not permitted for a non-filesystem reason
[04:07:57] * boyd doesn't recognise modctl
[04:08:33] <boyd> timeless: Actually, "open("/etc/sysevent/sysevent_door", O_RDWR|O_CREAT, 0600) = 4" Seems to indicate to me that it'
[04:08:38] <boyd> it's not a permissions thing
[04:10:15] <Tpenta> you are not supposed to open door files
[04:10:56] <Tpenta> swell not to read directly
[04:11:02] <jmcp> boyd: doors are always closed
[04:11:03] <Tpenta> certainly not to create them
[04:11:11] <timeless> tpenta: that's ok, since this thing just can't establish one at all
[04:11:21] <boyd> It's not my code... look at timeless' post
[04:11:24] <boyd> paste
[04:11:37] <twincest> you are meant to open() doors to create them
[04:11:38] <Tpenta> hang on that may not be quite right
[04:11:40] <richlowe> I would expect nexenta broke something.
[04:11:41] <twincest> then you call fattach
[04:12:00] <timeless> Drw------- 1 root root 0 Nov 29 18:45 /etc/sysevent/sysevent_door
[04:12:11] <Tpenta> have a look at door_create(3c)
[04:12:26] <twincest> door_create gives you a door id, then you do fattach(pathname, door_id)
[04:12:32] <twincest> you have to create the pathname first
[04:12:43] <timeless> should that file not exist on the system if the process isn't running?
[04:12:59] <twincest> did = door_create(...); unlink(path); close(creat(path, 0600)); fattach(did, path);
[04:13:15] <boyd> hpost -?postrc
[04:13:16] <boyd> Oops
[04:15:52] <timeless> well, ok, so doors allow things to do essentially rpc
[04:15:59] <boyd> YEs
[04:16:00] <timeless> that still doesn't explain how i fix this
[04:16:16] <timeless> nexenta was working until it fried my system and i hit the big power switch
[04:16:23] <timeless> now it's relatively unhappy
[04:16:42] <boyd> Funny, I've had probs with nextenta after unclean shutdowns.
[04:16:51] <boyd> I haven't persisted for long, though
[04:16:51] <timeless> how'd you fix it?
[04:17:06] <boyd> I don't think I did.... I think I re-installed...
[04:17:17] <boyd> different probs to this though'
[04:18:38] <timeless> ok, supposing i wanted to snapshot this, and then roll back to a working snapshot
[04:18:40] <timeless> could i do that?
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[04:23:28] <jbk> cool.. my evdo aircard is working under build 51
[04:23:29] <timeless>      zfs destroy [-rRf] filesystem|volume|snapshot
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[04:23:38] <timeless> swift# zfs list|grep nexenta
[04:23:38] <jbk> though i''m curious why 3 serial devices show up ont he card
[04:23:42] <timeless> root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta_bad@broken                                                          81K      -  1.09G  -
[04:23:56] <timeless> swift# zfs destroy root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta@broken
[04:23:57] <timeless> cannot open 'root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta@broken': dataset does not exist
[04:24:04] <timeless> what did i do wrong?
[04:24:25] <jmcp> timeless: you used my hostname
[04:24:36] <timeless> ? swift?
[04:24:49] <jmcp> broken :)
[04:24:56] <richlowe> that maybe an artifact of the dataset being zoned.
[04:25:04] * richlowe kinda forgets how all that stuff plays out
[04:25:12] <timeless> should it have told me that?
[04:25:17] <timeless> and how do i undo it?
[04:26:12] <timeless> ok, he's what i have:
[04:26:18] <timeless> root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta
[04:26:23] <timeless> root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta_bad@apt_ready
[04:26:29] <timeless> root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta_bad@broken
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[04:26:54] <timeless> then i cloned that as root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta_bad
[04:27:02] <timeless> then i promoted that
[04:27:24] <timeless> now it wants me to zfs rollback -R root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta_bad@apt_ready
[04:27:42] <timeless> will that "do the right thing" or will it kill _bad?
[04:28:23] <timeless> hrm
[04:28:34] <timeless> ok, i screwed something up
[04:29:01] <timeless> i wasn't supposed to have nexenta_bad@*
[04:29:20] <timeless> just nexenta@* and nexenta_bad (equivalent to nexenta@broken)
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[04:34:32] <timeless> ok
[04:34:38] <timeless> after dancing around, i have sshd running
[04:34:46] <timeless> but sysevent is still unhappy
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[04:35:18] <timeless> Oct 19 00:09:11 nexenta syseventd[6080]: [ID 221228 daemon.error] unable to open channel to syseventconfd
[04:35:19] <timeless> Oct 19 00:09:11 nexenta syseventd[6080]: [ID 600323 daemon.error] Invalid ops vector for module 'sysevent_conf_mod.so'
[04:35:19] <timeless> Oct 19 00:09:11 nexenta syseventd[6080]: [ID 600323 daemon.error] Invalid ops vector for module 'devfsadmd_mod.so'
[04:35:19] <timeless> Oct 19 00:09:11 nexenta syseventd[6080]: [ID 712776 daemon.error] sysevent_reg_mod: Can not open subscriber channel: Bad address
[04:35:20] <timeless> Oct 19 00:09:11 nexenta syseventd[6080]: [ID 160083 daemon.error] Unable to establish door name with kernel: 'Not owner'
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[04:38:47] * timeless wonders what brings switch to qnx/opensolaris
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[04:40:03] <jbk> hmm.. i wonder if i should comment out the nodetach line in this chat script
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[05:02:11] <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ grep max /etc/project
[05:02:11] <timeless> dot:201:dot memory restriction:timeless::rcap.max-rss=2g,zone.max-shm-memory=1g,project.max-tasks=50
[05:03:54] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris
[05:03:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[05:06:34] <richlowe> stevel: So.
[05:06:42] <stevel> So?
[05:06:44] <gisburn> stupid question: can | NaN| have a sign ?
[05:06:45] <richlowe> stevel: a user can't bringover as anything but anon@ unless they have putback access.
[05:06:54] <timeless> i believe so
[05:06:55] <richlowe> stevel: so all this add-gateling discussion is moot, unless you itend to change that.
[05:07:31] <stevel> richlowe: yes, that seems wrong. i'll see if i can change that tomorrow
[05:07:35] <stevel> it should be easy
[05:07:53] * stevel crosses his fingers
[05:11:49] * Gman agrees with richlowe, and worries about the consequences of tying too much to the webapp that isn't yet OS'd ;)
[05:16:22] <stevel> it will be
[05:16:25] <stevel> ...
[05:16:26] <stevel> someday
[05:17:19] * stevel is away (walking the beagles)
[05:17:21] <Gman> sorry, was just stating the obvious
[05:17:35] <Gman> [and again in my latest website-discuss mail]
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[05:54:54] <richlowe> stevel: I assume it's obvious why I'm against kupfer's approach?
[05:55:07] <richlowe> well, not entirely against.
[05:56:09] <elektronkind> tonight is adventures in mass patching (bringing a s10 FCS box up to speed)
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[06:03:55] * richlowe totally doesn't see how that makes anything easier.
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[06:05:20] <dclarke> hello
[06:06:13] <boyd> Afternoon, dclarke
[06:06:24] <dclarke>  evening !
[06:06:44] <dclarke> so is it hot down there or what ?
[06:07:33] <Gman> dclarke, i'm more than willing to remove any blogs on planet opensolaris upon request - if you don't want it appearing, that's fine
[06:07:40] * steleman doesn't quite know how to interpret dclarke's last statement
[06:07:43] <dclarke> eh ?
[06:07:58] <dclarke> ya lost me there
[06:08:11] <dclarke> let me expound on my thoughts a little more okay ?
[06:08:14] <Gman> dclarke, re, your mail on website-discuss
[06:08:16] <steleman> ;-)
[06:08:41] <dclarke> I personally think that the OpenSolaris Community is a nice tight little bunch
[06:08:44] <dclarke> and it is little
[06:08:56] <dclarke> we can't go around talking about 10,000 plus people
[06:09:00] <dclarke> thats just not the fact
[06:09:15] <dclarke> if I look at the email traffic on the discuss mail list
[06:09:28] <dclarke> it is limited to a whack of Sun.com people and a few non Sunner
[06:09:34] <dclarke> non Sunners
[06:09:41] <dclarke> that doesn't bother me
[06:09:46] <dclarke> not in the least really
[06:09:56] <dclarke> I like to read various blogs
[06:09:57] <Gman> ok, so what does this have to do with planet opensolaris?
[06:10:00] <dclarke> I pick and choose
[06:10:08] <dclarke> I'm getting there ...
[06:10:10] <dclarke> hold on
[06:10:23] <Error_404> heh
[06:10:27] <dclarke> first off .. I see no reason for this new Planet OpenSolaris at all
[06:10:33] <dclarke> period
[06:10:38] <dclarke> its totally superflous
[06:10:49] <dclarke> and does nothing at all other than what ? gather blogs ?
[06:10:53] <Gman> to you perhaps
[06:11:01] <dclarke> the OpenSolaris site is supposed to be a community site
[06:11:06] <dclarke> a community project
[06:11:09] <dclarke> yeah .. to me
[06:11:15] <dclarke> yes .. absolutely
[06:11:16] * steleman slouches back in chair and watches the show
[06:11:23] <dclarke> but you work for Sun right ?
[06:11:26] <Gman> it is - doesn't mean that you give everyone commit access to ON does it? ;)
[06:11:30] <dclarke> they pay you right ?
[06:11:32] <Gman> it's nothing to do with sun vs non-sun
[06:11:46] <Gman> i'm speaking as a community person period
[06:11:57] <dclarke> yes yes yes .. the usual diatribe comes out again .. etc etc .. its tired and I'm tired of it
[06:12:09] <dclarke> look .. who is paying for th site ?
[06:12:14] <dclarke> and paying you ?
[06:12:19] <Gman> sun, sun
[06:12:19] <Gman> so?
[06:12:23] <hell`> i tried to get my blog on planet opensolaris and no one fuckin responded
[06:12:28] <hell`> so that tells you what a crock planet opensolaris is
[06:12:30] <dclarke> Sun Inc ... its that simple .. now be honest and really .. don't bullshiut me
[06:12:39] <Gman> hell`, you did?
[06:12:42] <hell`> yeah
[06:12:45] <dclarke> would you .. you personally ,, create the site
[06:12:47] <dclarke> and run it
[06:12:49] <dclarke> and fund it
[06:12:51] <Gman> when? i don't see the mail
[06:12:54] <hell`> e-mailed glynn foster and talked to jamesd about it
[06:12:59] <dclarke> and get in there get dirty ... roll up your sleves and do this
[06:13:08] <hell`> no response from glynn
[06:13:11] <Gman> hell`, if you're actively involved in the project, i have no problem
[06:13:11] <dclarke> if you worked for Pixar ?
[06:13:20] <Gman> dclarke, yes
[06:13:21] <Gman> i would
[06:13:24] <Gman> and i did
[06:13:35] * dclarke puts on seatbelt
[06:13:50] <Gman> i got off my arse, created it - i didn't have hosting facilities at the time, and stevel kindly did so on grommit
[06:14:09] <hell`> Gman, well the website says to e-mail glynn foster if you want to be added, so i did
[06:14:14] <Gman> that's me
[06:14:17] <dclarke> because there are a stack of guys that have sunk their teeth into the Solaris community process over at Blastwave and have done it for years and that was waaaay before the OpenSolaris hoopla nad market droids and all that
[06:14:18] <hell`> and i haven't got a response.. its been 2 weeks
[06:14:23] <Gman> hell`, i may have missed your mail
[06:14:24] <dclarke> the so called "real" community
[06:14:35] <richlowe> yeesh.
[06:14:41] <hell`> hmm ok
[06:14:46] <dclarke> and man .. ya goot start seeing the veracity and nature of what people are saying // behind your back
[06:14:56] <richlowe> Why is it that anything vaguely nifty immediately offends someone via some tangenital scheme?
[06:15:05] <dclarke> no no no .. its not nifty
[06:15:07] <richlowe> if Gman was machiavelli, JDs would suck less.
[06:15:16] <dclarke> its _supposed_ to be at OpenSolaris.org
[06:15:21] <dclarke> the real community site
[06:15:24] <dclarke> isn;t it ?
[06:15:25] <hell`> there is a lot of solairs community out there its just sun people need to start recognizing and not just keeping the core people in the group and expanding out
[06:15:39] <Gman> solaris install community
[06:15:40] <Gman> right
[06:15:46] <Gman> there's a lot of linux install community
[06:16:05] <Gman> i'm trying to differentiate people who are directly contributing to the project
[06:16:06] <Gman> and those who aren't
[06:16:21] <dclarke> do I contribute ?
[06:16:25] <hell`> what do you consider contributing?
[06:16:40] <hell`> anyone who blogs about opensolaris is a contributor
[06:16:42] <Gman> hell`, patches, documentation, maintaining the web
[06:16:49] <Gman> stepping up to the plate
[06:17:01] <hell`> thats where you are being too biased
[06:17:03] <Gman> in gnome, we have 1000's of people using the desktop
[06:17:04] <timeless> does reporting bugs in documentation count?
[06:17:19] <dclarke> users .. okay
[06:17:24] <dclarke> I asked a question
[06:17:29] <dclarke> do I contribute ? ??
[06:17:38] <elektronkind> I think dclarke is recursing the wrong way in his argument when what he's really trying to say is that SUNW people are railroading the non-SUNW people with a practical monopoly of what flies on opensolaris.org, and in in the process ignoring - with the perception being on purpose, however intentional or not - the non-SUNW community at large.
[06:17:46] <Gman> timeless, yes, i think with continual efforts
[06:17:59] <Gman> dclarke, i believe so because you're leading the blastwave effort
[06:18:06] <Gman> to the same way i'd consider erast similar
[06:18:36] <richlowe> except a real planet install is something various of us have mentioned in here several times.
[06:18:37] <hell`> Gman, people contribute if they write even a few posts about opensolaris, if opensolaris is all about being open and wants a community, it shouldnt be picky about who is in its community
[06:18:39] <dclarke> okay .. but did I do anything for OpenSolaris besides market it ?
[06:18:44] <dclarke> or climb into the pilot ?
[06:18:51] <richlowe> but whatever.
[06:18:56] <dclarke> remember .. I have been involved since day minus one
[06:18:57] <Gman> dclarke, dunno, did you?
[06:19:24] <dclarke> in fact .. I had a conference call with Sun people months before the pilot and we talked about how to start the pilot
[06:19:41] <dclarke> here we are .. second year
[06:19:42] <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ grep max /etc/project
[06:19:42] <timeless> dot:201:dot memory restriction:timeless::rcap.max-rss=2g,zone.max-shm-memory=1g,project.max-tasks=50
[06:19:45] <dclarke> is it working ?
[06:19:46] <timeless> does that seem reasonable?
[06:20:29] <timeless> dclarke: well, i'm relatively happily using a system which has a better file system, debugger, profiler, and core than the one i was using before
[06:20:33] <timeless> i consider that working
[06:20:51] * timeless clearly has a low bar
[06:21:05] <dclarke> timeless .. you mean OpenSolaris ?  Solaris ? or Nexenta ?
[06:21:21] <timeless> opensolaris
[06:21:33] <timeless> nexenta atm is barely working after i powercycled the box
[06:21:34] <dclarke> look .. this new thing .. planet what-ever .. serves only to dilute what OpenSolaris.org is
[06:21:49] <dclarke> I don't see its purpose
[06:21:56] <Gman> what is it? what is opensolaris.org then?
[06:21:59] <richlowe> yeah, it contains useful stuff rather than crap crud about java.
[06:22:04] <richlowe> and whatever genesi are selling this week.
[06:22:08] <dclarke> we need to clean up OpenSolaris.org .. change the bloody homepage .. get people involved from the community
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[06:22:19] <hell`> dclarke is right
[06:22:37] <Error_404> agreed. os.o can be cryptic at times
[06:22:38] <Gman> and you're doing what to help this cause?
[06:22:46] <dclarke> I am sitting on top of a stack of my own stuff to do at Blastwave to pump out .. 44,000 packages per day .. last count
[06:23:06] <Gman> dude, you're complaining that stuff isn't getting done, but you're not stepping up to the plate either
[06:23:13] <elektronkind> I don't think opensolaris blogs and articles on opensolaris.org is a bad thing at all. I just have issue with it seeming like it serves as a SUNW employee playground.
[06:23:14] <dclarke> the community wanted to build open source software .. their way .. I don't interfere .. I provide
[06:23:24] <dclarke> I answer to the call .. I do what I can and get the hell out of the way
[06:23:27] <hell`> Gman, what are you doing by not letting people in the community?
[06:23:33] <Gman> elektronkind, it isn't, it doesn't have to be
[06:23:38] <dclarke> OpenSolairs .org needs to be modified in its mode of operation
[06:23:39] <hell`> Gman, who are you to decide who gets in the community and who doesnt?
[06:23:46] <Gman> *every* non-sun person i've given leadership to on desktop-discuss has done almost nothing with it
[06:24:05] <elektronkind> well, they're not GNOME 8 hours a day like you
[06:24:10] <Gman> hell`, i'd rather not be, but no one else seems to be taking that responsibility
[06:24:15] * timeless considers subscribing just to see what gman is talking about
[06:24:24] <dclarke> Gman .. what exactly do you expect ?
[06:24:32] <elektronkind> you're being paid to be Mr. GNOME/JDS. These other, probably not so much.
[06:24:33] <hell`> Gman, you start killing the community when you start trying to dictate who gets in the community
[06:24:34] <Gman> elektronkind, true, i am very fortunate
[06:24:41] <dclarke> Gman : really .. tell me what you expect from a so called "leader" ?
[06:24:41] <Gman> i'm not killing anyone
[06:24:45] <Gman> i'm encouraging people
[06:24:46] <Gman> yeesh
[06:24:53] <Gman> dclarke, anything, showing responsibility
[06:24:58] <Gman> leadership, encouragement
[06:24:59] <elektronkind> I'm just pointing that there's a gap in expecations
[06:25:04] <dclarke> I lead tons
[06:25:07] <hell`> you just said "what has dclarke done" ?
[06:25:10] <dclarke> do it every day
[06:25:14] <hell`> and you ignored my e-mail
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[06:25:37] <dclarke> hell` : did I miss something ?
[06:25:50] <dclarke> hell` : sorry . .wasn't ignoring you .. an email you say ?
[06:26:21] <hell`> dclarke, no i just e-mailed a while back to get on the planet opensolaris and no one responded.. they only include people they want
[06:26:34] <Gman> i've already rejected a vp in sun
[06:26:41] <Gman> i'm sure it won't be the last
[06:26:48] <dclarke> Gman : geez .. thats ballsy
[06:27:00] <dclarke> Gman : seeing as how they sign your paycheck
[06:27:14] <dclarke> thats grit
[06:27:37] <dclarke> lat's talk numbers can we ?
[06:27:41] <dclarke> hard data
[06:27:48] <elektronkind> I'd love to help out with documentation and ON/network storage, but my day job and life in general precludes me from doing that 8 hours a day, unlike SUNW people who are paid to do just that. If I were to get involved/be allowed to be involved, then I don't want to be seen by said SUNW people as not being "committed enough"
[06:27:49] <dclarke> is Derek C. around ?
[06:28:02] <dclarke> someone with _actual_ access to the OpenSolaris site ?
[06:28:09] <hell`> this is Derek C
[06:28:22] <dclarke> hell` :  excellt !
[06:28:33] * dclarke *waves*
[06:28:47] <dclarke> hell` :  you .. I need to talk with you !
[06:28:59] <hell`> about what?
[06:29:01] <Gman> elektronkind, so how is this different to the linux kernel where people are paid by other companies to be hacking on the source?
[06:29:06] <dclarke> hell` :  do you have some stats on the traffic to the site ? to OpenSolaris.org ?
[06:29:19] <hell`> no.. i dont have no access to opensolaris.org
[06:29:20] <dclarke> hell` :  how are we doing ?
[06:29:25] <dclarke> what ?
[06:29:30] <dclarke> Derek Cicero ?
[06:29:36] <hell`> no
[06:29:40] <hell`> Derek Crudgington
[06:29:41] <dclarke> oh hell ...
[06:29:42] <boyd> I'm somewhat will hell` here. I don't want it to sound like sour grapes either. Is seems to me that the "strict editorial policy" is really a "strict contributor policy". What I mean by that is that editorial policy would cover *content* of the posts, not who makes them. So, instead of a bunch of good solid solaris-related posts we see quite a few non-solaris-related posts from people who happen to be in the elite crew.
[06:29:45] <dclarke> wrong Derek !
[06:29:46] <elektronkind> elektronkind: I don't think the actual jobs are different, expect perhaps for the psychological expectations.
[06:29:48] <dclarke> sorry man
[06:29:55] <elektronkind> er s/elektronking/Gman
[06:30:18] <hell`> no problem
[06:30:20] <dclarke> boyd : the elite crew ...
[06:30:29] <dclarke> boyd : sounds like a shaving commercial
[06:30:32] <dclarke> :-)
[06:30:37] <Tpenta> a suggestion I made was to take the atom feeds with OpenSolaris only. My feed into there is limited like that at my own request
[06:30:41] <movement> boyd: yeah. we need tag filtering as I suggested
[06:30:47] <boyd> That, BTW is exactly what's wrong with planetsolaris. Too many off-topic posts from people who occasionally have something to do with soalris
[06:30:58] <dclarke> Tpenta :  hello Sir
[06:31:01] <elektronkind> "I had surgery"
[06:31:06] <Tpenta> hi dennis
[06:31:09] <elektronkind> worthy of a poo post, for sure
[06:31:22] <steleman> 'my cat is a lesbian'. beat that if you can.
[06:31:27] <whaq> lagg
[06:31:30] <dclarke> Tpenta :  pardon my rant .. but I have _had_it_up_to_here
[06:31:39] <elektronkind> "tonight my baby has its first solid poop" coming soon.
[06:31:43] <Tpenta> steleman: sounds like the planet discussion on lugradio in the last episode
[06:31:46] <Gman> it's going to take while to get right
[06:31:49] <Gman> anyway
[06:31:58] <boyd> movement: *exactly*. I'd like to see a planet with solaris related posts, even from those like me who can onlu offer help to newbs and documentation and evangelism. I don't want to see (e.g.) posts about the Boeing 777 (no offence to jamesd)
[06:32:08] <steleman> Tpenta: there is a subconscious reason i do not listen to lugradio ;-)
[06:32:23] <Tpenta> "I don't want to know about your cat"
[06:32:25] <hell`> boyd, haha
[06:32:26] <silk> but you might occaisonally carry a Sun box on a 777 :)
[06:32:41] <dclarke> Gman : I want .. really .. to write about many things Solaris related ... have you seen the stuff at http://www.blastwave.org/articles ??
[06:32:48] <dclarke> Gman : I wrote every damn one of them
[06:32:54] <dclarke> Gman : some of them took days
[06:33:06] <Error_404> silk: or simulate a 777 on a sun box
[06:33:15] <dclarke> Gman : some of them neeed input from guys like Alan Hargreves ( God love him! )
[06:33:22] <silk> however you are right, they should only contain relevant topics -- if I really wanted to know about lesbian cats, I would register the domain
[06:33:32] <timeless> what about running solaris on a 770, is that close enough to a 777? :)
[06:33:56] <dclarke> Gman : but just a few days ago I wanted to write an article on why we need to start using Sun SSH and drop OpenSSH fom our servers and I was told that I would hit a CopyRight problem and Sun Lawyer problem
[06:34:09] <dclarke> Gman : thats bull shit ... in a community process right there
[06:34:26] <movement> huh?
[06:34:31] <dclarke> Gman : can I blog that ?
[06:34:35] <hell`> dclarke, it sounds like you are trying to prove yourself.. you have no reason to
[06:34:57] <hell`> its a bs community if they dont recognize
[06:34:58] <dclarke> hell` :  no .. not at all .. I want this process to win . .to be a damn good thing for all of us
[06:35:05] <Gman> dclarke, i have no idea, i'm not you
[06:35:14] <Gman> i have absolutely no idea what the context is
[06:35:19] <Gman> nor do in fact care.
[06:35:28] <dclarke> okay ..
[06:35:32] <dclarke> nuff said
[06:35:47] <dclarke> ladies and gentlemen .. its been fun .. but I need to sign off now
[06:36:00] <dclarke> I think its time for me to politely bow out
[06:36:05] <boyd> dclarke: Did you get my comment to your blog BTW?
[06:36:08] <boyd> I saw nothing
[06:36:43] <dclarke> if anyone want to reach me ... Im at dclarke at blastwave dot org and there are mailists ...
[06:37:29] <elektronkind> man dclarke, I identify with you but I don't fancy martyrs.
[06:37:33] <dclarke> Gman : be advised .. are ya listening ? when the long term never die never give up and never give in types are leaving .. its a sign of sure death
[06:37:41] <timeless> dot:201:dot memory restriction:timeless::rcap.max-rss=2g;zone.max-shm-memory=1g;project.max-tasks=50
[06:37:56] <timeless> so, someone was trying to explain to me why memory limitations are messy w/ zones
[06:38:06] <dclarke> elektronkind :  no martyr crap  ... just frustrated with this
[06:38:11] <richlowe> because as they currently stand, they're done by rcapd.
[06:38:18] <Gman> dclarke, you'll have to be less subtle
[06:38:38] <richlowe> if you wait a while for PSARC 2006/598, I believe that improves things.
[06:38:51] <richlowe> timeless: (swap resource controls)
[06:39:05] <dclarke> I guess ...
[06:39:10] <dclarke> let me say something ..
[06:39:24] <timeless> so, my pacakge database says i have /usr/lib/rcap/amd64/rcapd
[06:39:38] <timeless> but svcs doesn't list anything matching rcap
[06:39:39] <dclarke> firstly .. I'll stand up in any public forum and speak good things .. I love ehat I do and I love the technology and the people are hellish cool
[06:39:51] <timeless> oh, it matches rcap, but not rcapd
[06:39:52] <dclarke> but it just doesn't feel like a community process anymore
[06:39:53] <richlowe> timeless: you pretty much gain a zone.max-swap rctl from that.
[06:39:54] <timeless> and it's disabled
[06:40:03] <richlowe> timeless: (2006/598, that is)
[06:40:14] <timeless> i don't want a swap limit
[06:40:23] <timeless> i added swap specifically to allow this thing to run away
[06:40:34] <boyd> dclarke: So, you're saying that anon comments on yr blog are discarded?
[06:40:38] <timeless> i just don't want it to kill the reset of my system while it swaps
[06:40:49] <dclarke> boyd : ermm .. I hope not !
[06:40:54] <dclarke> boyd : one sec ..
[06:41:08] <stevel> holy crap
[06:41:49] <dclarke> stevel : ??
[06:41:56] <stevel> i missed a helluva conversation
[06:42:02] *** Burana has quit IRC
[06:42:05] <boyd> :)
[06:42:06] <dclarke> well .. its me ranting a tad
[06:42:18] <stevel> man. i step out for dinner, and miss the most interesting conversation of the day
[06:42:32] <dclarke> stevel : not so much a conversation as me venting that .. it doesn't feel right .. whats being done with OpenSolaris.org
[06:42:47] <stevel> what's being done with opensolaris.org?
[06:42:51] <dclarke> stevel : poke me with a stick and I'll start over :-)
[06:42:55] <stevel> did i cause it to go down again?
[06:42:56] <stevel> my bad
[06:43:12] <boyd> hehe.. nope
[06:43:17] <dclarke> stevel : ha ha !  no ... it just doesn't feel like a community process anymore
[06:43:27] <stevel> dclarke: why?
[06:43:28] <dclarke> stevel : certainly not for me
[06:43:51] <dclarke> stevel : I went looking for a larger more vibrant community and I found a corporation instead
[06:44:12] <dclarke> stevel : clearly my expectations are misguided .. poorly formed .. or
[06:44:19] <dclarke> stevel : just bloody wrong
[06:44:37] <dclarke> stevel : I'm not sure .. sometimes I need to stop .. and think about it
[06:44:44] <Error_404> we could fork the thing ?
[06:44:48] <whaq> Are there any Xen tester\user here? How does it work so far?
[06:44:54] <dclarke> stevel : has anyone ever seen Ben Rockwood anymore ? where did he go ?
[06:45:05] <Error_404> he was here earlier today
[06:45:18] <boyd> dclarke: He was in earlier
[06:45:23] <stevel> !seen benr
[06:45:24] <boyd> Briefly
[06:45:25] <Drone> benr is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Thu 30 Nov 2006 02:18 GMT, saying 'benr runs off to dinner.'.
[06:45:26] <dclarke> stevel : is he still a big Solaris user ?  I seem to never see anything from him on the mail lists
[06:45:36] <boyd> dclarke: I think he'
[06:45:39] <stevel> dclarke: he's been pretty busy since he moved to joyent
[06:45:42] <boyd> dclarke: I think he's really busy
[06:45:47] <dclarke> ah .. okay
[06:45:52] <hell`> dclarke, what is your point there?
[06:45:53] <dclarke> I can relate to busy
[06:45:55] <boyd> He's on the podcast with them
[06:46:07] <boyd> (other joyent guys)
[06:46:24] <dclarke> hell` : dunno .. let me do something .. give me a few minutes .. need to fix my blog and hopefully boyd will test it
[06:46:42] <timeless> ok, i have rcap in globalzone, but it doesn't appear in nexenta
[06:46:45] * timeless wonders why
[06:47:55] <boyd> dclarke: Happy to... but it's only a little comment
[06:47:57] <dclarke> boyd : ?
[06:48:03] <boyd> (I could just type it here)
[06:48:07] <dclarke> boyd : can ya try to post a comment please ?
[06:48:20] <dclarke> boyd : I just adjusted the perms
[06:48:22] <boyd> 'kay
[06:48:47] <boyd> Oh, wait... my comment is there from a few days ago... wasn't a few minutes ago
[06:48:54] <Error_404> actually, come to think of it a fork wouldn't work very well
[06:48:57] <dclarke> really ?
[06:49:17] <dclarke> Error_404 :  I have a domain ready to go
[06:49:29] <timeless> so,
[06:49:32] <stevel> ... so
[06:49:35] <stevel> i'm not sure what you're getting at
[06:49:37] * timeless wonders how to use rcap(d) from nexenta
[06:50:08] <boyd> dennis, I think the perms are a little too open... I just edited someone elses post
[06:50:10] <whaq> timeless, how's nexenta?
[06:50:17] <stevel> dclarke: give me specifics.  we're talking about planet osol here, right?
[06:50:22] <stevel> or are we ranting about the site in general?
[06:50:24] <timeless> whaq: it was fine until i tried to use dot
[06:50:27] <timeless> that killed the box
[06:50:35] <timeless> and now i'm trying to build a protective fence against dot
[06:50:36] <whaq> what's dot?
[06:50:36] <stevel> whaq: i use it as my daily personal machine
[06:50:37] <dclarke> stevel : one sec please
[06:50:44] <Error_404> dclarke: i suppose a sync to the official repo might work
[06:50:45] <dclarke> boyd : oops
[06:50:46] <timeless> graphviz
[06:50:54] <timeless> it's a thinking that makes *huge* graphs
[06:51:04] <timeless> s/kin//
[06:51:09] <dclarke> Error_404 :  yep .. would be easy to get going
[06:51:20] <timeless> ok, the .dot input was huge to begin w/, but...
[06:51:27] <boyd> Geez, you got a lot of comments along the lines of what I said on that one post, dclarke
[06:51:28] <whaq> stevel, great. I'll jump in as soon as it tturns to beta
[06:51:30] <dclarke> Error_404 :  and .. as you know .. I have the means to go forwards with it .. if there were interest
[06:51:46] <dclarke> boyd : what post ?
[06:51:50] <stevel> whaq: sounds good. though i have to say, this is the stablest piece of alpha software i've run :)
[06:51:57] <Error_404> I'd be interested if I could think of a valid technological purpose for it
[06:52:09] <boyd> dclarke: "SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 - broken out of the box" Mostly about power saving
[06:52:10] <dclarke> boyd : holy crap .. yeah man
[06:52:11] <whaq> timeless,  heheh ok. good luck w/ that then.
[06:52:21] <dclarke> boyd : I gotta fix the perms though .. right now
[06:52:34] <Error_404> as in, Solaris/Alternate Arch., or if someone there were new features that didn't have to go through Sun's process... anything
[06:52:37] <whaq> stevel, the name still scares me ;) They gotta have a good reason for naming it so
[06:52:38] <boyd> Heh... no wait... I need to comment about my online poker site!!1
[06:52:54] <Error_404> Sol/Alt might not be a bad basis for it come to think of it...
[06:53:23] <Error_404> Polaris + Itanaris + PAlaris (heh)...
[06:53:46] <stevel> whaq: maybe they've got self-esteem issues :)
[06:53:53] <whaq> Any Xen users? I'm wondering if: a). Xen on Solaris is stable enough... b). Is it possible to migrate (live) xen domU's running on Linux to Solaris.
[06:54:01] <boyd> stevel: Maybe it's like "
[06:54:17] <boyd> stevel: Maybe it's like "Evolving"... too gutless to commit :)
[06:54:25] <stevel> boyd: lol
[06:55:17] <whaq> steve, haha let's hope they grow up to be a strong distro
[06:56:13] * timeless tries to figure out how svcs works
[06:56:52] <stevel> whaq: i'm rooting for them
[06:56:56] <stevel> timeless: smf(5)
[06:57:04] <dclarke> boyd ?
[06:57:16] <timeless> stevel: don't things normally get installed into all zones?
[06:57:23] <boyd> dclarke: Does that mean test again?
[06:57:24] <dclarke> boyd : I think that you can post comments anonymously now but not edit anything else
[06:57:28] * timeless is trying to figure out why rcap(d) didn't land in this nexenta zone
[06:57:41] <dclarke> boyd : please do
[06:57:59] <boyd> dclarke: Strangely most of the comments just disappeared, except the one I editted
[06:58:28] <dclarke> boyd : ya know ... this si not working "out of the box"
[06:58:41] <Error_404> I never managed to get suse working either
[06:58:42] * boyd is trying to post
[06:59:07] <boyd> dclarke: Ok, so now I can post and the comment shows up immediately
[06:59:10] <Error_404> i need maple for school, the student version is linux/mac/windows... i picked the best of 3 evils
[06:59:21] <dclarke> boyd : and you can ed it that comment ?
[06:59:22] <Error_404> after getting fed up with suse i just used ubuntu & was done with it
[06:59:27] <boyd> dclarke: No
[06:59:32] <boyd> I can only reply
[06:59:46] <dclarke> boyd : okay .. I think thats correct and reasonable
[06:59:50] <boyd> yah
[06:59:59] <boyd> Maybe you need to moderate the other comments?
[07:00:39] <dclarke> boyd : moderate .. like edit the ones that call me an idiot ? where is the fun in that ?  :-)
[07:00:41] <stevel> timeless: on a solaris system, yes.. i've not messed much with nexenta zones though
[07:00:58] <boyd> dclarke: Actually I mean "manually spam filter :)"
[07:01:27] <dclarke> boyd : oh .. yeah .. the idea was to force people to register
[07:02:09] * boyd nods... we (the net) really need something better... I don't really need yet another username/password conbo
[07:02:17] <boyd> combo
[07:02:42] <dclarke> yep .. let's give the whole world RSA ACE Key fobs and then setup one central authentication server
[07:02:45] <dclarke> a big one
[07:03:24] <boyd> :) running on linux?
[07:03:27] * boyd ducks
[07:04:17] <timeless> does each zone have its own job name?
[07:04:26] <boyd> Hey, btw, dclarke, why DID you not want the power saving?
[07:04:36] <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ grep dot /etc/project
[07:04:37] <timeless> dot:201:dot memory restriction:timeless::rcap.max-rss=1073741824;zone.max-shm-memory=1g;project.max-tasks=50
[07:04:44] * dclarke points to my most recent comment
[07:04:53] <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ newtask -p dot
[07:04:54] <timeless> newtask: warning, zone.max-shm-memory resource control assignment failed for project "dot"
[07:05:11] <dclarke> boyd : Let's be honest .. I had no clue!
[07:05:12] <boyd> dclarke: lol
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[07:05:35] <dclarke> boyd : honesty .. thats my policy
[07:05:43] <boyd> It's always nice to hear someone say that kinda thing
[07:05:56] * timeless tries reading http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/rm/zones/
[07:05:59] <boyd> Not in the sense of schadenfreude
[07:06:02] <boyd> (sp?)
[07:06:23] <dclarke> what ?  that I was an idiot and now I know it?  sure thing !  I have teenagers and I *know* I'm not too bright anymore !
[07:06:53] <dclarke> boyd : excellent word usage !
[07:07:00] <boyd> :)
[07:07:11] <dclarke> boyd : schadenfreude!  I have to go get the totaly definition on that
[07:07:30] <boyd> Ask nrubsig.. .or another German
[07:07:51] <dclarke> A malicious satisfaction obtained from the misfortunes of others.
[07:08:10] <dclarke> ooh .. beauty !
[07:08:25] <stevel> alrighty. it's past my bedtime... i'll be around tomorrow if you want to rant more about opensolaris.org :)
[07:08:28] <stevel> 'night folks
[07:08:32] <boyd> Night stevel
[07:08:41] <dclarke> stevel : I'll always be around
[07:08:42] <richlowe> g'night stevel.
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[07:09:00] <richlowe> Well great, now I've got to draft a decent rant, on top of everything else.
[07:09:29] <dclarke> richlowe :  eh ?
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[07:11:22] <timeless> ok, so how do i figure out if rcap is working? :)
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[07:13:26] <Error_404> malloc()....
[07:13:27] <Error_404> a lot
[07:13:38] <richlowe> try again and see if the machine still dies :)
[07:13:50] <dclarke> boyd : one sec .. new blog coming
[07:14:09] * boyd has an image of dclarke brooding an egg
[07:14:14] <Error_404> eww
[07:14:21] <boyd> s/brooding/laying
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[07:15:55] <timeless>   5945 1000     1926M 1924M cpu1     0   19   0:00:08 8.2% dot/1
[07:16:02] <timeless> that's not a good start
[07:16:14] <timeless>   5945 1000     2794M 2443M sleep   60   19   0:00:13 6.0% dot/2
[07:21:26] <dclarke> boyd : one fresh egg : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/16
[07:22:07] <boyd> Nice
[07:22:40] <dclarke> there ya go .. nice usage of html there ..
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[07:23:05] <dclarke> speaking of which .. I have to fix this http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php
[07:23:13] <dclarke> oops .. thats broken
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[07:23:33] <boyd> Yes, you do have to fix it :)
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[07:24:15] <dclarke> boyd : I have a stack of CSS to get in there to fix that crud
[07:24:16] <timeless>   5176 daemon   6312K 4452K cpu0    60    0   0:01:40  10% rcapd/1
[07:24:17] <timeless>   5945 1000     3117M 1064M cpu3    60   19   0:00:41 0.7% dot/1
[07:24:32] <timeless> what does it mean when rcapd is using 10% of my cpu? :)
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[07:30:58] <dclarke> boyd : fixed it http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/9menu
[07:31:34] <boyd> Much better :)
[07:31:56] <dclarke> its ugly as sin .. I'm working on better colors and layout
[07:33:20] <boyd> The reverse depends is a bit in-you-face http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/gnutls
[07:33:28] <dclarke> boyd : wdyt?  still ugly ?  http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/9menu
[07:33:29] <boyd> s/you/your
[07:33:51] <timeless> are you critiquing colors?
[07:33:59] <boyd> yep
[07:34:22] <dclarke> oooh .. thats ugly
[07:34:30] <boyd> dclarke: I think it needs a border for those colors... like what I have here: http://www.users.on.net/~boyd.adamson/
[07:35:19] <boyd> There is a 1-pixel border around the rectangles
[07:35:26] <dclarke> oooooh .. thats ... beeeautifull
[07:35:32] <dclarke> CSS ?
[07:35:37] <dclarke> or tables there ?
[07:35:37] <boyd> yep
[07:35:40] <boyd> No tables
[07:35:57] <dclarke> yep .. I live for a no tables web
[07:36:13] <dclarke> but .. I am sort of stuck with data that is displayed in tables and thus ..
[07:36:25] <dclarke> I'll make incremental changes until I get what I want
[07:36:26] <boyd> Feel free to steal s much or as little CSS as you like..
[07:36:36] <Tpenta> dclarke, so is the answer to your suse thing that it was speedstepping?
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[07:36:42] <dclarke> can I snag that background image ?
[07:36:53] <boyd> dclarke: Sure.... I did :)
[07:37:01] <dclarke> Tpenta : it was runnign some weird cool and quiet daemon this
[07:37:06] <boyd> dclarke: want one that's not colored to my scheme?
[07:37:14] <Tpenta> ahh
[07:37:21] <dclarke> boyd : no way .. I like that one
[07:37:35] <boyd> I can give you the gimp file I think
[07:37:38] <dclarke> I need something more .. in tune with the blastwave motif
[07:37:54] <dclarke> let me keep hacking forwards here
[07:38:22] <boyd> Something more.... astronomyish?
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[07:38:48] <dclarke> yeah .. sort of on the NASA/SOHO image thing
[07:38:54] <dclarke> boyd : here http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/css2/index.html
[07:39:03] <dclarke> boyd : see that ?  no tables .. pure CSS2
[07:39:13] <boyd> noice
[07:39:34] <dclarke> yeah .. that will go into the php after I get the tables looking nice
[07:39:46] <dclarke> I want people to be able to fetch the data but without the ugliness
[07:40:04] <dclarke> one sec .. be right back
[07:40:33] <timeless> ok, my system didn't fall over dead, i have to admit, that's a big plus
[07:40:41] <dclarke> ha ha
[07:41:02] <timeless> but it also didn't do what i needed
[07:41:36] <boyd> Geez, timeless How big is this freakin' diagram?
[07:41:45] <timeless> i guess i want to set per app memory limits of 1/2 zone memory limit
[07:41:49] <timeless> > png image, 91756x35306
[07:42:00] <timeless> small i guess
[07:42:06] <boyd> Holy Cr*p
[07:42:12] <timeless> :)
[07:42:21] <boyd> What the hell are you gonna view it on?
[07:42:28] <timeless> windows
[07:42:41] <timeless> there isn't an x server i've met that wouldn't kill itself if we tried x :)
[07:42:41] <boyd> My SMF charts make some browsers barf at 7000x4000
[07:42:48] <timeless> but, "that's not my problem"
[07:43:04] <timeless> i'm just generating it and sending it back over a wire to someone crazy enough to look
[07:43:25] <gisburn> boyd: blame mozilla and it's attempt to map anything to 24bit first and then back to the local display depth
[07:43:40] <boyd> Oh, I do :)
[07:43:40] <timeless> for perspective, i know that you can have a 1m png that's 17940x18824
[07:43:53] <gisburn> boyd: there are 1bit PNG images which can crash the Xserver
[07:44:09] <dclarke> wow http://www.users.on.net/~boyd.adamson/smf/smf-all.png
[07:44:14] <timeless> fair warning, firefox does not handle this weell: http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsgraph.cgi?file=mozilla/client.mk
[07:44:19] <dclarke> that didn't knock my machine over here ..
[07:44:22] <timeless> (use ie)
[07:44:41] <boyd> dclarke: My IRC client just displayed that inline :)
[07:44:52] <dclarke> ick !
[07:44:54] <dclarke> sorry
[07:45:05] <boyd> No prob, it ate it for breakfast
[07:45:23] <timeless> oyd: are you serious?
[07:45:32] <boyd> timeless: Fine in safari
[07:45:40] <boyd> timeless: yes, serious
[07:45:43] * timeless nods
[07:45:49] <timeless> i'm not saying the picture is hard
[07:45:56] <timeless> ie wants 300mb for rendering it
[07:46:03] <timeless> ff wants something like a gig to think about it
[07:46:11] <timeless> and decideseventually that it only needs 100mb
[07:46:22] <boyd> That's quite a nice diagram
[07:46:30] <timeless> which?
[07:46:33] <boyd> yours
[07:46:44] <timeless> try: http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsgraph.cgi?file=mozilla/configure
[07:46:46] <boyd> Safari ground a little but it was fine in the end
[07:46:55] * boyd clicks
[07:46:58] <timeless> ie doesn't grind at all
[07:47:36] <boyd> When I say grind I mean there's about a 10 second rendering time
[07:48:22] <timeless> <2s in ie
[07:48:25] <boyd> Ah, but that later one just goes blank about 1/3 of the way from the top
[07:48:36] <timeless> heh
[07:48:38] <timeless> ie renders the thing
[07:48:43] <timeless> not just some fraction
[07:48:56] <boyd> Well, I guess it had to be able to do something right
[07:49:15] <boyd> I just noticed the mouseovers too
[07:49:18] <timeless> well, to be fari, i do have a url i can use that ie+ff will combine to kill devices w/
[07:49:20] <gavins> timeless: http://talkback-public.mozilla.org/search/start.jsp?search=2&type=iid&id=TB26686139H :)
[07:49:40] <boyd> I'm not sure how much use charts like that are
[07:50:02] <timeless> boyd: the mouseovers work wonders
[07:50:09] <timeless> the'yre actually very useful
[07:50:10] <boyd> Heh... timeless made me do it :) It's funny because it's true
[07:50:11] <timeless> if you have ie
[07:50:35] <timeless> gavns: vc8 feature
[07:50:44] <timeless> ask to go back to vc6 where new doesn't throw on bad_alloc :)
[07:50:49] <timeless> ;-)
[07:51:05] <boyd> I was thinking about trying out some of the interactive graph browsers stuff... like  this kinda thing: http://graphics.stanford.edu/~munzner/software.html
[07:51:06] <timeless> arg, and kick jay for me
[07:51:11] <timeless> he needs to fix those \s
[07:52:11] <timeless>  46 pavlov   1.4     mData = new unsigned char[height * stride];
[07:52:14] <gavins> last I heard he tried to get ispiked to do it
[07:52:16] <timeless> should be what you crashed on
[07:52:33] <timeless> i'll poke ispiked then
[07:52:54] <timeless> gavins: file a bug :)
[07:53:06] <timeless> biesi/dveditz love those bugs
[07:53:22] <gavins> I wonder what stuart thinks of those bugs
[07:53:31] <timeless> <stuart> this crash is stupid
[07:53:31] <gavins> only one way to find out!
[07:53:38] <gavins> heh, yeah, I saw that :)
[07:53:41] <timeless> <stuart> oom crashes are ok
[07:53:54] <timeless> <stuart> i dont even bother checking for oom anymore
[07:53:55] <timeless> > we noticed
[07:54:27] <timeless> this is of course in a constructor, so it's not like checking would work correctly :(
[07:54:28] <boyd> Quality code
[07:54:37] <dclarke> boyd : a boatload of style in a dumb button here http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/gnutls
[07:54:42] <timeless> i really don't like his attitude
[07:54:43] <timeless> never have
[07:54:48] <timeless> brilliant guy
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[07:54:52] <timeless> but well...
[07:54:59] <timeless> i don't appreciate it when my software crashes
[07:55:03] <boyd> dclarke: Huh?
[07:55:08] <timeless> and he doesn't like code that's ugly
[07:55:44] <timeless> anyway, if you want a prettier (slightly nsfw) memory test
[07:55:50] <boyd> Code that crashes is by definition ugly
[07:55:54] <dclarke> boyd : the blue button .. its in cornflower blue
[07:55:55] <timeless> which also could kill you, your xserver, your web browser, or your computer
[07:56:10] <timeless> http://itkombinat.de/~timeless/stress.html
[07:56:15] <boyd> I'll try it :)
[07:56:28] <boyd> If you don't hear from me for a while ....
[07:56:29] <timeless> requires 100mb bandwidth, and 885mb (ie,n4)
[07:56:46] <timeless> gecko tends to hit a 2g barrier
[07:56:49] <timeless> again, use safari/ie
[07:56:52] <timeless> (or n4)
[07:57:07] <boyd> 100mb bandwidth.. sheesh
[07:57:14] <timeless> windows/mac/solaris recommended
[07:57:22] <timeless> boyd: but it's pretty! :)
[07:57:32] <timeless> and yes, it really has killed a number of devices
[07:57:38] <boyd> So far I have "0 bytes of ?" Maybe my proxy's died :)
[07:57:45] <timeless> i have a .dump from a samsung q1
[07:57:55] <timeless> heh
[07:58:16] <boyd> Still zero
[07:58:17] <timeless> actually, i have bandwidth and space, i should get a local copy so i can torture internals
[07:58:58] <boyd> dclarke: Ah, I see it... safari makes buttons look like native widgets.... which aren't cornflower blue
[07:59:21] <dclarke> safari overrids the style ?
[07:59:28] <dclarke> thats bogus ..
[07:59:39] <dclarke> I have changing mouseover stuff in there
[07:59:39] <boyd> May I suggest that the page needs less of a "box of colored pencils" look and more of a "planned color scheme" look?
[07:59:52] <dclarke> I'm still working on it
[08:00:03] <dclarke> and yes .. it needs a nice color scheme
[08:00:10] <dclarke> but .. I'm getting there
[08:00:16] <dclarke> I'm working from top to bottom
[08:00:45] <boyd> timeless: (145) Connection timed out
[08:00:54] <timeless> hrm
[08:00:55] * boyd retries
[08:01:51] * timeless talks to a proxy about getting the content
[08:02:49] <timeless> :( try next month? it's possible they hit bandwidth restrictions for the month? :(\
[08:03:02] <boyd> Heh... yeah, like I'll remember that :)
[08:03:09] <timeless> yeah, i'm timing out here too
[08:03:27] <timeless> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51028 is the bug for it
[08:03:56] <timeless> actually from memory ie6 needs 1.3g instead of ie5.5's 885m
[08:04:31] <timeless> gavins: remind me to poke landfill for an extrra 20g
[08:04:35] <timeless> then we can add it to landfill :)
[08:04:55] <timeless> (along w/ an hg repo of oo.os.o)
[08:04:58] <gavins> file a bug asking for space on landfill to store your NSFW pictures? :)
[08:05:13] *** Dar_AFK is now known as Dar
[08:05:34] <timeless> gavins: you've seen that page before, right?
[08:05:35] <boyd> Dammit... now I want to see the damn test :)
[08:05:38] <gavins> yes
[08:06:02] <timeless> there actually was a second directory i ran across  a couple of years after the first which would have made a good stress2
[08:06:08] <timeless> but i don't think i had space to store it :(
[08:06:57] <timeless> so, back to quotaing memory allocations
[08:11:06] <timeless> ok, can i set a per process memory limit that only affects ram and not vm?
[08:11:24] <timeless> i know i can set a project limit
[08:11:30] <timeless> but that won't do what i need
[08:11:46] <boyd> Can you make a single-process project?
[08:11:47] <timeless> since afaict dot calls gd and there's no memory left, so gd crokes
[08:11:53] <timeless> s/ke/ak/
[08:12:17] <timeless> are processes tied to app names?
[08:12:24] <boyd> Ah... it probably inherits..
[08:12:35] <timeless> or newjo
[08:13:02] <boyd> could you wrap gd with a script that runs newtask?
[08:15:05] <timeless> hrm
[08:15:07] <timeless> maybe i'm wrong?
[08:15:13] * timeless can't find a gd
[08:16:26] <dclarke> boyd : this sucks less : http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/gnutls
[08:16:46] <boyd> Yes, it does
[08:16:52] <Error_404> what's with the grey?
[08:17:07] <boyd> It's pale blue to me
[08:17:12] <boyd> (the background?)
[08:17:21] <Error_404> yes
[08:17:27] <dclarke> background is very pale baby blue
[08:17:28] <timeless> the bright blue bothers me more
[08:17:35] <Error_404> i see it as grey, but either my eyes, or my monitor suck
[08:17:36] <timeless> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=64465
[08:17:37] <dclarke> bright blue ? where ?
[08:17:45] <timeless> why not match the bluegreys there instead?
[08:17:47] <dclarke> the links ?
[08:17:50] <timeless> contact maintainer
[08:17:59] <timeless> cyan?
[08:17:59] <dclarke> ooh .. okay .. that can change
[08:18:30] <timeless> it's been a while since i've had to name colors from a wheel
[08:18:31] <dclarke> hrmmm .. on my screen it look to be color coordinated
[08:18:50] <dclarke> my reference : http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/html/quickref/color_chart.html
[08:19:18] <timeless> the hover style for links is /odd/
[08:19:58] <timeless> and why use any js for style changes?
[08:20:05] <timeless> why not always use :hover?
[08:20:13] <dclarke> I'm lazy sometimes
[08:20:30] <dclarke> and .. there is no way to specify hover for a button
[08:20:39] <dclarke> not that I'm aware of
[08:20:46] <boyd> Hooray for that :)
[08:21:09] * timeless personally hates colored widgets
[08:21:28] <boyd> Good grief... I just unblocked scripts for that page. No, the button over thing has to go
[08:21:41] <dclarke> eh  ?
[08:21:54] <dclarke> you hate the buttons
[08:21:59] <dclarke> you hate the buttons  ??
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[08:22:12] <boyd> Only in a kind of..... hateful way
[08:22:20] <dclarke> er .. crap
[08:22:33] <dclarke> okay .. so .. what ?  leave them black and white default ?
[08:22:42] <timeless> oh, that's why there's no effect here
[08:22:53] * timeless didn't look at the (\s)
[08:22:56] <boyd> I think the main thing is that a button should look like a button.. like every other button
[08:23:11] <timeless> oh man
[08:23:15] <boyd> timeless: \s ?
[08:23:19] <timeless> please get rid of that, it's terrible :)
[08:23:21] <timeless> noscript
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[08:23:32] <boyd> Ah... yeah, me too
[08:23:57] <dclarke> reload this : http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/gnutls
[08:24:06] <dclarke> that first button has no js on it now
[08:24:11] <boyd> Better....
[08:24:26] <dclarke> is it still blue there ?
[08:24:26] * timeless had already forbidden blastwave again
[08:24:41] <boyd> dclarke: You remember in the early days of Desktop Publishing everyone wanted to use every font they had on every page?
[08:24:53] <dclarke> yeah .. I recall
[08:24:59] <boyd> So all the docs looked like old western posters
[08:25:00] <dclarke> it was just like early web pages
[08:26:08] <boyd> You don't need to used every color/gimmick on one page.
[08:26:09] <dclarke> little flashy crap everywhere ... just like shockwave flash today
[08:26:09] <dclarke> point taken
[08:26:09] <boyd> Or color changing buttons :)
[08:26:09] <dclarke> the buttons .. they will be buttons and not .. crap
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[08:26:56] <dclarke> hows that?  http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/apache
[08:27:40] <timeless> ok,
[08:27:45] <boyd> Better... still blue. :)
[08:27:48] <timeless> still not fond of links becoming unliknklike on hover
[08:28:06] <timeless> remember the cat that would chase or flee from the mouse?
[08:28:08] <dclarke> unlinklike ?
[08:28:11] <timeless> nako?
[08:28:15] <boyd> neko
[08:28:18] <dclarke> ah yes .. that
[08:28:21] <dclarke> uh huh ..
[08:28:23] <timeless> not blue, not underlined
[08:28:28] <dclarke> so .. er ... what ?
[08:28:37] <timeless> looks like normal paragraph content
[08:28:44] <dclarke> what does ?
[08:28:51] <boyd> A hovered link
[08:28:54] <timeless> your hovered links
[08:28:55] <dclarke> specifically .. which link?  all of them ?
[08:29:01] <boyd> Yes
[08:29:08] <timeless> yes\
[08:29:19] <dclarke> geez .. I'm using SeaMonkey here and they all look .. blue
[08:29:34] <boyd> Not when they are hovered over
[08:29:36] <timeless> you're either using override css
[08:29:41] <timeless> or not hovering over them
[08:30:11] <dclarke> umm .. no .. I am just loading the page and the CSS takes full effect as per normal
[08:30:13] <boyd> For consistency with, like, the whole internet they should at least be underlined on hover
[08:30:27] <dclarke> okay .. underlined .. okay
[08:30:30] <dclarke> I can do that
[08:31:15] <dclarke> hows this?  http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/apache
[08:31:42] <boyd> Better... do they need to change color?
[08:32:22] <dclarke> hit reload !
[08:32:24] <dclarke> :-)
[08:32:28] <dclarke> like that ?
[08:32:32] <boyd> Egad!
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[08:32:46] <boyd> Lucky I haven't eaten :)
[08:33:21] <dclarke> okay .. I made it even more ugly
[08:33:24] <dclarke> try that !
[08:33:51] * dclarke hands a bucket to boyd
[08:34:00] <dclarke> dry heaves !
[08:34:13] <boyd> Stop it, you'll kill us all!
[08:35:10] <dclarke> is that okay now ?
[08:35:24] <boyd> Better
[08:35:38] <dclarke> the grey background is .. okay I think
[08:37:37] <boyd> Ok, Here's my suggestion. Rather than choosing colors from all the colors in the world, do something like this: google for, say, "web page color schemes", follow one of the links, then choose a scheme you like with somewhere < 6 colors. Go with those, and maybe saturation variants of them.  My page I pointed you at before uses IIRC 6 colors, which are variants on 3 base colors
[08:38:13] <dclarke> I am using maybe 5
[08:39:03] <boyd> Yes, but 5 randomly generated musical notes don't sounds as good as 5 carefully chosen ones.
[08:39:11] <boyd> s/sounds/sound
[08:39:53] <dclarke> well .. you should hear me sing :-)
[08:40:02] <boyd> lol
[08:40:17] <boyd> Ok, well... It's 18:40 here... Time I left the office
[08:40:36] <dclarke> cool ... thanks for the feedback !
[08:40:45] <boyd> Evening, all
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[08:40:58] * boyd &
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[09:04:05] <dclarke> whos around ?
[09:04:59] <boyd> Sadly, I'l still here
[09:05:01] <boyd> I'm
[09:05:14] <dclarke> geez man
[09:05:30] * dclarke points to the background "&" above
[09:05:32] <boyd> If I ever get my hands on the people responsible for SunMC....
[09:05:50] <dclarke> well ... yeah .. I'l hold them down .. you kick them
[09:05:57] <boyd> Heh
[09:06:08] <dclarke> in the mean time .. can ya look at http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php
[09:06:19] <dclarke> scrll all the way to the bottom
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[09:06:30] <dclarke> tell me if the colors are screwed at the bottom
[09:06:51] <boyd> Everything looks ok to me
[09:07:09] <dclarke> okay .. clearly my browser is screwed
[09:07:22] <dclarke> I better get something other than Mozilla here
[09:07:23] <boyd> What are you seeing?
[09:07:31] <boyd> I'm using firefox on a mac
[09:07:42] <dclarke> the whole table is yellowish in color
[09:07:49] <dclarke> the backgroun is blueish
[09:08:05] <boyd> The table is kinda pale salmon for me
[09:08:06] <dclarke> but at the bottom I see the color form the table running down over the blue
[09:08:19] <boyd> Ah, no... nothing like that here
[09:08:21] <jmcp> dclarke: yeah, the background colour for the table goes all the way to the bottom of the page rather than staying inside the table
[09:08:24] <dclarke> pale salmon ?  wow .. thats an odd color .. but sure
[09:08:45] <dclarke> I'm using Mozilla in Solaris 10 update 2
[09:08:52] <dclarke> its has issues I guess
[09:08:55] <sgnut> morning
[09:09:06] <boyd> Hi jmcp
[09:09:12] <boyd> Morning, sgnut
[09:09:13] <jmcp> hi one-n-all
[09:09:14] <jmcp> hi boyd
[09:09:23] <jmcp> I get pale salmony-pink too
[09:09:24] <boyd> It's fine in safari too
[09:09:42] * boyd looks in firefox 2 on solaris
[09:09:44] <jmcp> dclarke: what colour are you expecting?
[09:09:45] <dclarke> okay .. looks like a browser bug
[09:09:50] <jmcp> and does it really matter?
[09:10:04] <dclarke> nope
[09:10:18] <dclarke> I just thought that the color in the table should stay in the table
[09:10:26] <Triskelios> there's a stray "\";" above the table in case you care
[09:10:35] <Triskelios> man, old-school HTML...
[09:10:39] <boyd> FF2.0 on s10u2: Broken
[09:10:56] <dclarke> yeah .. its old and ugly
[09:12:23] <dclarke> okay .. got rid of the stray chars
[09:12:46] <boyd> jmcp: You fly tomorrow don't you?
[09:13:45] <dclarke> okay .. I'm done .. this looks okay to me : http://www.blastwave.org/packages_test.php/libpq
[09:13:50] <dclarke> okay for now anyways
[09:13:59] <sgnut> I have a problem with crle and a binary. it uses a library located in /oracle/DES/102_64/lib, and crle reports: crle -c /var/ld/ld.config -l /lib:/usr/lib:/oracle/DES/102_64/lib
[09:14:14] <sgnut> but when I execute the binary the problem persists
[09:14:19] <sgnut> any suggestion?
[09:17:45] <sgnut> anyone out there? lool
[09:17:50] <dclarke> yep ..
[09:17:54] <dclarke> not sure what to say
[09:18:06] <sgnut> it's solaris 10
[09:18:11] <dclarke> okay
[09:18:16] <dclarke> I have that ehre too
[09:18:19] <dclarke> here
[09:18:22] <dclarke> :-)
[09:18:58] <dclarke> but .. that doesn't mean that I can help you .. I have no clue what oracle has to do with it
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[09:21:26] <jmcp> boyd: yeah
[09:21:36] <jmcp> 9pm departure assuming the Roo is on time
[09:21:38] <sgnut> it's strange because a ldd /path/binary says: libskgxp10.so => (file not found)
[09:21:53] <dclarke> woo hoo
[09:21:58] <dclarke> bash-3.1$ uptime
[09:21:59] <dclarke>   3:35am  up 600 day(s), 14:15,  4 users,  load average: 1.34, 0.95, 0.79
[09:22:00] <jmcp> sgnut: and what was the problem again?
[09:22:09] <dclarke> another 100 days on that server ...
[09:22:25] <sgnut> jmcp: I have a binary that uses a library located on /oracle/DES/102_64/lib
[09:22:40] * dclarke doesn't see the problem
[09:22:53] <sgnut> jmcp: when I execute the binary it says that can't load a dinamic library (libskgxp10.so) that it is located on /oracle/DES/102_64/lib
[09:23:10] <sgnut> jmcp: and crle reports: crle -c /var/ld/ld.config -l /lib:/usr/lib:/oracle/DES/102_64/lib
[09:23:16] <dclarke> set LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
[09:23:30] <sgnut> dclarke: yes.. I have tried with LD_LIBRARY_PATH too...
[09:23:36] <sgnut> but doesn't work
[09:23:42] <dclarke> oh .. sorry
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[09:25:02] <sgnut> ldd -s path/binary says: ignore path=/oracle/DES/102_64/lib  (insecure directory name)
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[09:25:44] <sgnut> jmcp: what does exactly mean "insecure directory name"?
[09:26:05] <sgnut> jmcp: is not supposed that with crle we can specify secure directoris?
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[09:27:10] <jmcp> just a sec, I'll see what I can find out
[09:27:30] <silk> you are having trouble executing some oracle guff?
[09:27:57] * dclarke passes out tired
[09:28:06] <dclarke> boyd : thank !!
[09:28:15] * dclarke waves g'night
[09:28:20] <silk> au revoir
[09:28:27] *** dclarke is now known as dclarke_ZZZzzz
[09:28:45] <sgnut> silk: yeah
[09:29:06] <silk> did you install this in teh standard way or something else?
[09:29:15] <silk> (ie using their installer)
[09:29:39] <jmcp> sgnut: crle -s /path/to/trusted/directory is what you want
[09:29:47] <sgnut> jmcp: let me see
[09:30:17] <silk> before you do that, you might try relinking oracle
[09:31:17] <sgnut> jmcp: doesn't work :(
[09:31:42] <jmcp> best offer I can make, sorry
[09:31:55] <sgnut> silk: the problem is that with some users it works without problems, but with another ones doesn't :(
[09:32:10] <silk> are they all in the dba group?
[09:32:11] <sgnut> silk: and is not a problem of LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[09:32:18] <sgnut> silk: sure
[09:32:31] <sgnut> id -a confirm that :)
[09:32:34] <silk> is the ENV for all of the users teh same?
[09:32:45] <sgnut> silk yes
[09:32:58] <sgnut> it's very very strange
[09:33:00] <silk> ok, I would try relinking oracle
[09:33:09] <sgnut> silk: what do you mean with relinking?
[09:33:20] <silk> su - oracle ; relink all
[09:33:30] <sgnut> let's see
[09:33:31] <silk> but I would make sure that the databses were all stopped etc
[09:33:43] <silk> usual make sure you havea  backup shit
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[09:33:56] <sgnut> silk: lool ok
[09:34:26] <silk> but it doesnt really explain why some users are ok and some arent
[09:34:35] <sgnut> silk: yes...
[09:34:40] <sgnut> very strange :(
[09:34:54] <silk> and you can see no difference between the 2 users?
[09:35:24] <sgnut> some differences in PATH
[09:35:29] <sgnut> but I suppose that is not relevant
[09:35:47] <silk> unless trhey are using different versions of a binary
[09:36:08] <sgnut> mmm
[09:36:15] <silk> do a which binary as each user
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[09:36:59] <sgnut> silk: I have used type :P but yes... same binary
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[09:44:46] <gisburn> is there a linux client for secondlife ?
[09:45:01] <Triskelios> gisburn: yup, practically since always
[09:45:20] <gisburn> Triskelios: ?!
[09:46:15] <Triskelios> I'm serious
[09:46:37] <gisburn> I do not understand the "practicially since always" thing...
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[09:47:16] <boyd> He means there has been one for a long time, nearly as long as there has been a Second Life
[09:48:14] <gisburn> Ok... what do I need to join secondlife ?
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[09:48:37] <boyd> No proxy :(
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[09:50:56] <gisburn> grump... flash plugin crash
[09:51:38] <gisburn> ok... again... how do I join secondlife ?
[09:52:29] <Triskelios> uhh, the usual registration stuff for the free accounts they have now
[09:56:03] <gisburn> Triskelios: nothing else ? No restrictions ?
[09:59:04] <Cyrille> how about going to the site and reading their terms and conditions or faq or whatever, that's surely going to be more authoritative than whatever people on #opensolaris may answer...
[09:59:48] <Triskelios> well, you get more stuff and the ability to buy land if you have a paid account, but I think that's it
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[10:04:13] <g4lt-U60> so you can buy huge...tracts...of....land.  isn't that illegal?
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[10:39:18] <raph_ael> hello
[10:46:50] <Berny> morning
[10:58:01] <sgnut> morning Berny
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[10:59:13] <Berny> morning sgnut
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[11:09:44] <twincest> okay, studio express build 27 is either buggy or has insane memory requirements
[11:09:51] <twincest> it just ate like 800MB reading my binary
[11:13:08] <sgnut> twincest: probably it has been designed thinking in the resources that will be necessary for vista xD
[11:13:41] <twincest> i wasn't aware dbx ran on windows
[11:14:37] <gisburn> dbx, "Quantum-Computer edition" where the debugger must simulate all possible states of one 64bit integer at once ?
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[11:20:23] <gisburn> twincest: lesson learned: back to 16bit computers wtih 64k memory. at least the quantum version of the CPU can't consume more than 4GB per 16bit variable... :-)
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[11:28:09] <kimc> morning
[11:28:51] <sgnut> morning kimc
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[12:53:43] <dlynes_laptop> Is it LD_CONFIG_PATH that you set if you want to include paths to search shared object files from?
[12:53:57] <trygvis> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[12:54:02] <dlynes_laptop> ah, ok
[12:54:02] <dlynes_laptop> thanks
[12:54:11] <dlynes_laptop> and that's accessible to a non-privileged user, right?
[12:54:16] <trygvis> yep
[12:54:20] <twincest> except for setuid binaries
[12:54:21] <dlynes_laptop> ok, cool
[12:54:25] <dlynes_laptop> thanks muchly
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[13:14:12] <Doc> LD_LIBRARY_PATH is evil
[13:14:22] <Doc> EEEEEEEEVVVIILLLLLLL!!!!!
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[13:17:32] <dlynes_laptop> Doc: why's that?
[13:17:56] <timeless> there are long rants explaining why
[13:18:07] <timeless> settle for it being wrong
[13:18:09] <dlynes_laptop> What's a better solution, then?
[13:18:22] <Doc> ask google
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[13:18:41] <leal> hello all..
[13:19:00] <dlynes_laptop> I'm guessing it's because a userspace program can inject a trojan in a new location and overwrite the LD_LIBRARY_PATH variable
[13:19:46] <Doc> no, it's primarily because there should be no need for ld_library_path - there are "correct" ways to solve almost every single problem it solves
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[13:20:24] <dlynes_laptop> Yeah...I see LD_RUN_PATH instead
[13:22:54] <Doc> as a general rule, library locations should be stored in the binary themselves
[13:22:57] <Doc> using relative paths
[13:23:19] <Berny> tell that some software vendors :-\
[13:23:30] <Doc> i do. regularly
[13:23:43] <Berny> do they listen?
[13:27:04] <Cyrille> I guess they don't. just as regularly.
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[13:29:54] <Berny> that's my impression too
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[14:05:50] <leal> yesterday i was with a "rsync" problem...
[14:06:01] <leal> the sincronization on a ZFS filesystem was terrible.
[14:06:24] <leal> but the problem was not the ZFS.. or the SATA discs.
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[14:12:15] <kiivi> Doc: that does not help with user installation of binaries under a home directory with the system missing the required libraries.
[14:12:31] <kiivi> LD_LIBRARY_PATH is an easy solution to that.
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[14:18:04] <timeless> leal: what was the problem?
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[14:25:15] <leal> timeless: gnome-terminal, i guess..
[14:25:23] <timeless> gnome-terminal!?
[14:25:59] <leal> timeless: i'm still looking
[14:26:35] <leal> timeless: the fact is: the rsync inside the gnome-terminal, with the "-v" switch, go tooooo slow
[14:27:49] <Auralis> gnome-terminal is unbrideled crap
[14:28:10] <leal> timeless: i have made some debug with dtrace, and the gnome-terminal has made 267771 syscalls in 5 minutes...
[14:28:29] <timeless> heh
[14:28:36] <leal> timeless: and in the same time, rsync did 60671
[14:29:06] <timeless> did you really need -v?
[14:29:15] <timeless> or why not -v > log
[14:29:16] <leal> timeless: no.. no...
[14:29:28] <timeless> i actually did something similar recently
[14:29:35] <timeless> but now i'm left unsure whether it worked correctly
[14:30:10] <leal> timeless: i'm use to do that... i use the same command always... :) but now i have encountered that problem..
[14:30:47] <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/world-all/projects/browser
[14:30:48] <timeless>                        10.8G   249G  10.8G
[14:30:51] <leal> timeless: in fact, i was testing a remote connection (XDMCP)... but now i want to debug it, and to know the real thing.
[14:30:56] <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/world-all/projects/browser_tree
[14:30:57] <timeless>                        13.2G   249G  7.57M
[14:31:29] <timeless> i was doing an rsync from browser_tree to browser, and i'm trying to figure out why browser claims to be 3g smaller than browser_tree
[14:33:04] <leal> Auralis: gnome-terminal is a problem on solaris... in linux it works fine..
[14:33:15] <leal> Auralis: I think that the problem is vte...
[14:33:19] <timeless> gnome-terminal doesn't work well anywhere
[14:33:23] <timeless> it might work worse on solaris
[14:33:30] <timeless> but it's always slower than xterm
[14:33:36] <leal> timeless: whatever... :)
[14:33:48] <Auralis> gnome-term is crap everywhere
[14:33:49] <leal> timeless: no doubt
[14:33:58] <tomww> slower than xterm. xterm ist slower than rxvt :-)
[14:34:00] <Stric> leal: how old gnome-terminal?
[14:34:13] <timeless> presumably 2.14
[14:34:16] <leal> Stric: solaris 10 u2
[14:34:30] <leal> 2.6.1
[14:34:34] <timeless> oh wow
[14:34:37] <timeless> heh
[14:34:56] <leal> timeless: it's a standard installation.
[14:35:23] <timeless> i've never installed 10
[14:36:17] <leal> timeless: would be nice if you can make a similar test with the newer version... and see if that problem is already fixed.
[14:36:35] <Stric> in 2.14, g-t with antialiasing is 50% slower than an xterm without, and an xterm with antialiasing is waaaaaay slower (still waiting on my testcase)
[14:36:40] <leal> timeless: if you can understand my english.. :)
[14:37:09] <Stric> xterm with aa is about 60 times slower
[14:37:51] <leal> Stric: but i want to understand "how" the gnome-terminal, or xterm... whatever can slow down the process running on it...
[14:38:07] <Stric> leal: simple, it blocks write() calls
[14:38:24] <Stric> rsync wants to write output, xterm/g-t/foo says "hold on a little"
[14:38:56] <leal> Stric: But something is write to the terminal, other is write on disc. right?
[14:39:26] <Stric> leal: it's all about latency.. adding a millisec here and there makes stuff go slow
[14:39:42] <leal> Stric: And the driver (pipe) does not buffer the output.
[14:39:54] <Stric> (if your rsync is outputting a whole bunch of lines, not just a few)
[14:40:00] <timeless> doesn't rxvt support transparency w/o much of a perf hit?
[14:40:21] <Auralis> yes
[14:40:59] <Stric> I don't see any performance diff with g-t 2.14 either
[14:41:17] <leal> Stric: I was expecting that the rsync would finish the "job", and the terminal will still print the output..
[14:41:31] <Stric> ~2.7s to print 85k lines from 'find .', xterm takes slightly less, xterm with aa takes 1.5 min
[14:41:53] <Stric> leal: welcome to the real world :)
[14:42:04] <Doc> the real world is over-rated
[14:42:11] <Doc> i've tried it - it's just not worth the effort
[14:42:38] <twincest> does Solaris provide a method to read() from one socket and write() to another without copying the data to userland?
[14:42:51] <trygvis> check out sendfile()
[14:42:52] <Doc> sockets, or files?
[14:42:52] <trygvis> (IIRC)
[14:42:58] <twincest> sendfile on Linux doesn't support sockets
[14:43:00] <twincest> does it on Solaris?
[14:43:03] <twincest> doc: sockets
[14:43:04] <Doc> nope
[14:43:07] <trygvis> oh
[14:43:12] <Doc> if it's sockets, i'm not aware of a way to do it
[14:43:13] <trygvis> you learn every day :)
[14:43:29] <twincest> this would be really beneficial to be application
[14:43:41] <twincest> at 100% CPU load, i spend 30% CPU in userland and 70% CPU in kernel
[14:43:46] <twincest> most of which is copying data
[14:44:11] <Doc> if you're just moving data in and out, why bother at all?
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[14:45:05] <twincest> because i need to inspect the data.  it's an HTTP proxy that routes requests based on the destination host and a few other variables
[14:45:18] * McBofh defrosts
[14:45:19] <leal> Stric: So, rsync stays blocked wainting for the gnome-terminal reads, and after that it continues syncing the discs?
[14:45:22] <twincest> but i only need to inspect the headers, i don't care about the data
[14:45:36] <twincest> so i'd like to read() the headers, and then use something like sendfile() to tranfer the data efficiently
[14:46:15] <McBofh> twincest: might sysv shm be a possibility for you?
[14:46:24] <andersmo> Linux experimented with something like that recently - I think they called it splice()
[14:46:40] <Stric> leal: something like that.
[14:46:59] <twincest> McBofh: can that improve the speed of kernel reads?
[14:47:10] <twincest> i tried using /dev/shm under linux, but it didn't make much difference
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[14:47:56] <leal> Stric: so, its a buffer limitation (driver). right?
[14:49:30] <McBofh> twincest: if your data is coming in via an http port, then you're kindasorta already in kernelspace, so a transfer via shm might (should, I'd hope) decrease the latency for you
[14:49:55] <McBofh> twincest: re linux' /dev/shm ... I hope Solaris' shm is a heckuvalot faster :)
[14:50:04] <twincest> McBofh: how would i do that?  get some shm memory, read() into it and write() it like normal?
[14:50:15] <twincest> and the kernel will optimise it because it's shm rather than normal memory?
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[14:53:51] <Dr3w> Hello
[14:54:00] <Xh4> Hello, Dr3w.
[14:54:21] <Dr3w> Does anyone know which package I need to install from the Blastwave repository to get an svn client?
[14:54:34] <Xh4> ...
[14:54:41] <Xh4> Why not just compile the svn client's source?
[14:55:09] <Auralis> Dr3w: easiest, get blastwaves pkg-get then pkg-get -i svn
[14:56:42] <Dr3w> Is the package pm_svnmirror - mirror remote repository to local Subversion repository ?
[14:56:59] <Auralis> pm_ is a perlmodul
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[15:02:24] <McBofh> twincest: that's my understanding. I think SIv2 will explain it a lot better
[15:02:35] <twincest> hmm, maybe i should buy that
[15:02:52] <twincest> although our main platform if linux, if i can demonstrate that solaris is better.. :)
[15:03:30] <trygvis> Dr3w: try pkg-get subversion
[15:03:47] <Dr3w> excellent!
[15:04:02] <McBofh> twincest: you need to evaluate several different options to see which makes a difference. One of those is Solaris, with shm :)
[15:04:20] <Dr3w> I know this is #OpenSolaris not #Blaswave, but if your doing a pkg-get in one shell, can you do another in another shell without it messing up?
[15:04:47] <twincest> McBofh: sadly i fear it'd have to be a *lot* faster.. everyone else hates it
[15:04:55] <trygvis> that depends on pkgadd I guess, but I wouldn't try it :)
[15:04:58] <twincest> (they like zfs and dtrace and such, but the userland is harsh)
[15:05:23] <Dr3w> I am not in a rush, I will wait for pkg-get -i ap2_modphp5 to finish :)
[15:06:18] <Auralis> Dr3w: yes you can run several pkg-get at the same time, the actuall pkgadd will block when anothe ris running at the same time
[15:06:21] <Dr3w> I moved from Linux to Solaris.  I installed Blastwave's pkg-get added gcc and then copied my terminal and env settings over and I don't notice a difference now.
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[15:07:02] <lasseoe> Solaris ships with gcc.
[15:07:17] <Dr3w> the only thing that annoys me is I can't do tar zxpvf ... I have to gunip | -
[15:07:29] <Auralis> gtar
[15:07:46] <lasseoe> add /usr/sfw/bin to your path, gcc, gtar et al. can be found there
[15:09:38] <McBofh> Dr3w: no, you cannot do multiple pkgadds at the same time
[15:10:14] <McBofh> twincest: ah, if you've got political problems re Solaris in your org ... you'll probably need at least 3 orders of magnitude improvement in speed , and stability
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[15:10:42] <McBofh> Dr3w: friends don't let friends use gnu tar
[15:10:50] <Dr3w> why?
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[15:12:17] <McBofh> Dr3w: because (a) Joerg doesn't like it. (b) it does *not* adhere to various important standards which Unix adheres to, (c) it is not maintained with an appropriate degree of care, and (d) it creates incompatible archives
[15:12:46] <McBofh> (d) is particularly important because - as far as I am aware at least - tar on Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Irix et al are all compatible
[15:12:51] <LeftWing> (a) is moot -- there isn't much Joerg likes. =P
[15:12:56] <McBofh> LeftWing: :)
[15:13:08] <hile_> *chortle*
[15:13:13] <McBofh> LeftWing: oh, and of course star is standards compliant since like forever duh!
[15:13:20] <LeftWing> McBofh: So is #schily
[15:13:23] <lasseoe> haha LeftWing
[15:13:24] * McBofh tries to imagine Joerg using VG-speak
[15:13:32] <LeftWing> Using gtar to extract stuff you download isn't really a heinous crime.
[15:13:33] * McBofh chortles too
[15:13:46] <hile_> did i just walk in to "gtar sucks because" discussion?
[15:13:52] <Dr3w> anyone in the UK?
[15:14:01] <LeftWing> hile_: Apparently so.
[15:14:13] <LeftWing> hile_: It could very easily become a "joerg sucks because" conversation, though. ;)
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[15:15:17] <McBofh> hile_: yeah
[15:15:42] <McBofh> LeftWing: at least Joerg understands that software engineering requires certain attribute, especially when you're talking about Standards
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[15:17:03] <LeftWing> McBofh: My problems with Joerg don't really extend to his software engineering practices. =P
[15:17:24] <eboutilier> Dr3w: I'd also suggest checking out this page on opensolaris.org: "How To Use SVN Repositories":
[15:17:25] <eboutilier> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/svn_help/
[15:17:44] <McBofh> LeftWing: but he is Always Correct (tm) ... so what's your problem? :)
[15:18:06] <LeftWing> McBofh: Oh who knows.
[15:18:16] <eboutilier> Not that there's anything wrong with the  Blastwave svn client, but I thought you should know it's supported by the project.
[15:18:21] <eboutilier> too.
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[15:20:17] <twincest> McBofh: honestly - i'm inclined to agree - the solaris userland does suck in many ways.. but i know people are working on this as part of opensolaris
[15:20:39] <Dr3w> I wanted SVN as I am going to try and get Haiku's (BeOS re-write) build up and running on Solaris.
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[15:23:04] <McBofh> twincest: yeah, that's true ... except for tar :)
[15:25:33] <timeless> haiku on solaris kernel?
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[15:25:39] * timeless ponders
[15:25:54] <timeless> including be graphics?
[15:26:11] * timeless didn't follow haiku but assumes it isn't using x11
[15:28:52] <Dr3w> No, I mean cross-compiing the OS on SOlaris
[15:29:04] <Dr3w> not building the OS ontop of the Solaris kernel
[15:29:11] <timeless> awww :(
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[15:29:50] <Dr3w> I don't know if that could ever work, the kernels are too different.
[15:30:28] <Dr3w> I would like to get Haiku running on Sun hardware though, the OS is made for multiple processors, and you can get a quad-processor Ultra really cheap.
[15:30:55] <timeless> well, it supported ppc and x86
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[15:31:28] <timeless> i suspect that getting basic gui-less apps to run in a zone wouldn't be impossible
[15:31:43] <timeless> after all haiku is basically built using atheos, right?
[15:31:44] <Dr3w> Haiku runs on x86 and builds on PPC, but I think the PPC branch isn't booting at the moment, a SPARC port would be nice :)
[15:32:16] <Dr3w> No, they started with the NewOS kernel, buts its almost unidentifiable as that now.  Its all its own stuff.
[15:32:40] <Dr3w> People think that as AtheOS was influanced by BeOS's API etc.
[15:32:42] <timeless> too many sall cute os kernels floating around :)
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[15:33:08] <Dr3w> NewOS was written by an ex-Be engineer, so it contained similar concepts to BeOS's kernel.
[15:33:52] <Dr3w> I like the BLT kernel the best :)
[15:33:59] <Dr3w> as I love BLT's.
[15:34:44] * timeless doesn't know that one
[15:34:53] <McBofh> timeless: bacon, lettuce, tomato
[15:35:00] <McBofh> Dr3w: on rye or sourdough?
[15:35:17] <McBofh> mmmmmmm
[15:35:20] <McBofh> I could go one of those right now
[15:35:29] <McBofh> though maybe on a panini rather than sourdough
[15:35:32] <Dr3w> http://www.frotz.net/openblt/
[15:35:34] <timeless> i don't understand how that's a kernel
[15:35:35] <McBofh> even though I'm a huge sourdough fan
[15:37:45] <timeless> but would you go for a nice MLT sandwich?
[15:38:36] <Dr3w> spam and egg
[15:38:54] <McBofh> timeless: M ? mayo? meat?
[15:39:32] <timeless> Mutton Lettuce and Tomato
[15:39:44] <timeless> espically when the mutton is 'nice and lean'
[15:40:06] <timeless> you either get it or you don't
[15:40:17] * timeless marks dr3w in the "doesn't get it" category and moves on
[15:40:42] <hile_> best.. movie... ever
[15:41:05] <McBofh> timeless: add me to that category as well
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[15:44:31] <Dr3w> Lamb reminds me of kebabs.
[15:44:44] <Dr3w> Kebabs reminds me of being sick when I am drunk.
[15:44:47] <Dr3w> MLT isn't for me.
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[16:03:58] * McBofh packs
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[16:11:24] <jteo> McBofh, early flight?
[16:13:13] <McBofh> jteo: nope, just like to not rush in the morning
[16:13:18] <McBofh> my flight is tomorrow night
[16:13:27] <jteo> ah
[16:13:49] <McBofh> and I go direct from the office to the airport
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[16:21:56] <stevel> much better
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[16:35:50] <eboutilier> stevel: ssh'ing to tonic-push does indeed work for me. thanks.
[16:36:27] <stevel> eboutilier: i gave you access to the tonic-push and planet roles, so you should be able to modify the planet and/or push to the DLC
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[16:38:08] <klepplap> anyone here using a sun ultra 40?
[16:38:20] <klepplap> if so, what's your experience with it?
[16:38:23] <mustang> they're pretty.
[16:38:30] <eboutilier> stevel: perfect, thanks.
[16:38:46] <stevel> klepplap: my only experience with an ultra40 has been drooling over sch's
[16:39:00] <mustang> oh. and they make almost as much noise as an x4600 on startup.
[16:39:08] <stevel> can't be louder than my w2100z
[16:39:24] <stevel> that thing is an f-ing jet engine
[16:39:25] <mustang> you'd think that
[16:39:26] * stevel can't stand it
[16:39:48] <klepplap> so, they're noisy in operation?
[16:39:56] <darrenm> nope just initial startup
[16:39:57] <mustang> I was sitting on the datacentre floor at about ear-level as I plugged power into the x4600 and had it start up in my face.
[16:40:00] <stevel> klepplap: only during the initial bios boot
[16:40:01] <McBofh> klepplap: the w2100z is, yes
[16:40:02] <mustang> \o/
[16:40:26] <klepplap> stevel, ah, ok, not an issue then..
[16:40:29] <McBofh> klepplap: the u20 does the same thing - until you get an OS installed, the darn box will have the fans going at full pace
[16:40:37] <McBofh> afterwards, nice and quiet
[16:40:40] <klepplap> ok, cool..
[16:40:43] <klepplap> reliability?
[16:41:02] <klepplap> I want a box which'll run for at least three years
[16:41:05] <stevel> as far as i've heard, no complaints from anyone who has an u20 or u40
[16:41:17] <klepplap> ok, great :P
[16:41:24] <stevel> the only reason i haven't asked for a u40 is cause my w2100z is reliable and won't bite the dust
[16:41:27] <stevel> :-P
[16:41:35] <jteo> ...
[16:41:44] <jteo> w2100z is nice. -sigh-
[16:41:59] <jteo> if only i could get my hands on an ontario box..
[16:42:02] <stevel> jteo: it is actually. it's already overkill for what i use it for
[16:42:09] <jteo> stevel, IRC?
[16:42:12] <stevel> it's just not as purty as a u40
[16:42:23] <stevel> jteo: ... well... i do connect to 3 IRC networks :-P
[16:42:30] <jteo> holy.
[16:42:31] <stevel> that's computationally intensive you know
[16:42:39] <mustang> we've got HP xw9300s. pushing for u40s as the replacements: they're sexy, they're fast and they are screwed together nicely.
[16:42:41] <jteo> yeah talk about cheap workloads
[16:42:53] <stevel> sometimes i even do work on my machine
[16:43:19] <klepplap> well, IMO the u40 offers a very nice upgrade path
[16:43:28] <jteo> for which you earn this thing called "pay" stevel?
[16:43:30] <klepplap> I can add another two cores in a few months, and loads of RAM..
[16:43:41] <stevel> jteo: yeah go figure
[16:44:02] <jteo> stevel, fascinating. ;)
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[17:07:23] * McBofh sleeps
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[17:08:15] <jteo> wb dclarke.
[17:08:26] * dclarke awakes
[17:08:39] <dclarke> hey
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[17:14:13] <jbk> morning
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[17:18:03] <dclarke> I'm going for coffee ... back in a bit
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[17:23:50] <dclarke> coffee is crap this moring .. ic k
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[17:28:17] <quasi> dclarke: maybe you should brew a new pot rather than use leftover coffee from last night
[17:28:34] <bougie> hello :)
[17:28:43] <dclarke> I never operate complex kitchen equipment when half awake
[17:28:59] <printk> "complex kitchen equipment" :)
[17:29:08] <hile_> that explains a lot, dennis
[17:29:13] <hile_> ;)
[17:29:21] <Auralis> the kitchensink? :)
[17:29:54] <hile_> dclarke: novel concept -- coffee machine on a timer
[17:29:55] <dclarke> me in a kitchen .. thats a recipe for bloody disaster
[17:30:11] <dclarke> oh .. oh .. now yer gettin' all complex on me !
[17:30:25] <hile_> you put it there before you go to bed
[17:30:30] <hile_> and when you get up, it's all brewed
[17:30:32] <dclarke> when I first awake .. I am qualified to operate a coffee cup
[17:30:40] <dclarke> barely
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[17:32:27] <dclarke> barely awake and reading gisburns #!/bin/ksh93 code
[17:33:04] <lasseoe> feeling suicidal in the morning? ;-)
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[17:58:14] <elektronkind> anyone here ever compile sendmail with sun studio before?
[17:58:30] <elektronkind> I'm interested in your site.config.m4
[17:58:31] <Auralis> yes
[17:58:40] <elektronkind> in as far as the compiler settings go
[17:59:04] <Auralis> no clue, never had to touch that, and don't have it anymore, but it worked out of the box
[17:59:22] <elektronkind> hmm ok
[17:59:30] <asyd> 18
[17:59:31] <asyd> oups
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[18:02:14] <elektronkind> ah, apprently I was missing define(`confDEPEND_TYPE', `Solaris')
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[18:18:29] <Jeff7> Has anyone tried to install OpenSolaris on top of Xen version of Solaris Express?
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[18:20:54] <postwait> Does anyone know a vague release date for Solaris 10 update 3?
[18:21:08] <dclarke> today ?
[18:21:10] <dclarke> soon ?
[18:21:23] <LeftWing> Yesterday!
[18:21:28] <Cyrille> if it has to be vague, I'd say sometime.
[18:21:36] <Auralis> still time left, don't be hasty :)
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[18:21:52] <LeftWing> Not here, there's not. December 1st, 4am. =P
[18:22:00] <postwait> We have a deployment that we have the opportunity to delay for a week... and I'd do so if we think it will be out within that time
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[18:24:23] <postwait> So, to rephrase.  if asked confidence from 1 to 10 if s10u3 would be out within the next 6 business days, what would the answer be?
[18:24:50] <Somethingelse> 3
[18:25:07] <Somethingelse> 3-5...
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[18:30:24] <darrenm> postwait: this is #opensolaris not #solaris so you won't get an official answer to that question here
[18:30:35] <darrenm> even those of us that do know we can't say, sorry
[18:32:52] <quasi> postwait: I'd say you have a 50% chance of getting it in time (assuming december release and sun not wanting to risk shipping in the week before christmas)
[18:33:59] <darrenm> quasi: you are just guessing only Sun can say this it is best for postwait to contact a Sun sales person that way he may get an answer under NDA.  Anything said here is just guessing or an unofficial leak if it is from some one who does know.
[18:34:12] <darrenm> Solaris 10u3 is NOT an OpenSolaris distribution so this is just not the correct place to ask.
[18:34:18] <quasi> darrenm: indeed I'm only guessing
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[18:36:41] <quasi> darrenm: even if it did ship tomorrow, I'd personally be very cautious on rolling it out in a production setup if I was on that short a schedule
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[18:38:15] <darrenm> quasi: what would you use instead ?
[18:38:23] <quasi> darrenm: u2
[18:38:37] <quasi> darrenm: or my beta u3 ;)
[18:38:46] <darrenm> beta u3 can't be patched
[18:38:52] <darrenm> u2 doesn't have the u3 features in it
[18:38:57] <quasi> hence the ;)
[18:39:01] <stevel> fwiw, some quick googling will tell you what the anticipated date of s10u3 was expected to be
[18:40:17] <stevel> darrenm: thanks for doing the filemerge testing; i'm looking forward to seeing more results
[18:40:21] <stevel> especially with the gvim diff mode
[18:40:23] * stevel has never used it
[18:40:59] <Gadzooks> postwait <- Wouldn't you want to pretest your deployment with Sol10u3 before doing  true deployment... is htere something specific you want 10u3 for?
[18:41:18] <stevel> i wonder if we had a kdiff3 w/ statically linked-in libqt.. still not great, but at least we'd have something
[18:42:33] <stevel> darrenm: have you used mgdiff?
[18:43:37] <postwait> Gadzooks, we have testing time in our schedule already
[18:43:44] <postwait> That wouldn't be lost.
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[18:43:51] <postwait> ZFS improvements.
[18:43:52] <icon> morning all
[18:43:53] <postwait> dtrace fixes.
[18:44:05] <darrenm> mgdiff nope not heard of that one
[18:44:10] <postwait> bootable ZFS root.
[18:44:55] <darrenm> a static libqt for kdiff3 might be doable but personally I just don't want to be runing around picking up all the worms off the floor as soon as the libqt in Solaris can is opened up
[18:44:56] <stevel> a quick google brings up: http://linux.maruhn.com/sec/mgdiff.html
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[18:46:22] <darrenm> I'm going to try doing an hg merge with gvimdiff - Jims suggestion
[18:47:22] <stevel> alrighty. i'm off to walk the dogs and head into work. back online in an hour or so
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[18:49:28] <Gadzooks> trusted extensions and zfs are a good features to deploy. ;>
[18:53:10] <Gadzooks> good luck
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[19:44:25] <sickness> hi eboutilier
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[19:54:12] <eboutilier> hi sickness
[19:59:29] <dclarke> eboutilier :  hopefully you saw my comments on this IRC business and see my point
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[20:02:12] <eboutilier> dclarke: Sure. If we start getting mainstreamers into #opensolaris it'll loose it's edginess and therefore go downhill...
[20:02:31] <eboutilier> dclarke: That's maybe a trade-off, but I think it's worth it.
[20:02:36] <stevel> so start a #opensolaris-l33t channel
[20:03:11] <dclarke> I have no clue what you just said
[20:03:12] <whaq> k3wl
[20:03:14] <whaq> invite plz
[20:03:26] <stevel> and make it +k
[20:04:08] <eboutilier> I didn't either, but checking wikipedia: means l33t means "elite"
[20:04:36] <whaq> wouldn't #opensolaris-dev be more appropriate
[20:04:44] <eboutilier> I'm afraid  wp doesn't help me with +k though... :-/
[20:04:57] <stevel> makes it a keyed channel, i.e.: password protected
[20:05:19] <movement> what the heck is a "mainstreamer"?
[20:05:22] <eboutilier> Ah.
[20:05:22] <dclarke> oh .. so let's just make the whole thing closed source and be done with it
[20:06:33] <eboutilier> movement: Maybe "the establishment" is a better word. Or am I dating myself? (Woodstock anyone?)
[20:06:49] <movement> I still don't know who that would be.
[20:07:52] <darrenm> WTF ?
[20:08:28] <dclarke> eboutilier :  I think you mean "the man"
[20:09:01] <eboutilier> dclarke: No, I mean mainstream opensolaris members don't hang out here.. for the most part.
[20:09:32] <darrenm> I think that might be more of a "don't do IM/IRC" thing for some people
[20:09:44] <movement> what are we? underground members?
[20:09:45] <dclarke> what in God's green earth do you mean by "mainstream" ?
[20:09:46] <eboutilier> not the man, whoever that is.
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[20:10:13] <stevel> samuel l. jackson is the man
[20:10:22] <dclarke> in reference to your woodstock comment .. no one would say "the establishment" but would just say .. het comes "the man"
[20:10:22] <alanc> members?  are those users? contributors? hangers on?
[20:11:36] <eboutilier> alanc: Just my way of looking at it... members are subscribers to one or more lists plus registered members.
[20:11:56] <eboutilier> dclarke: gotcha
[20:12:04] <dclarke> oh hell .. whoever wants to drop in on this IRC channel will .. even Jim Gris does from Japan
[20:12:22] <alanc> ah, the marketing mindset, where you have to keep tabs on who everyone is
[20:12:23] <dclarke> he is as "mainstream" as it gets in my opinion
[20:13:47] <movement> (am I the only one who still has not the slightest clue what dclarke is actually on about?)
[20:14:02] <darrenm> movement: nope I don't know what he is talking about either
[20:14:08] <dclarke> movement ... its okay .. even I am just giving up ..
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[20:14:28] <darrenm> dclarke: giving up on what ?
[20:14:44] <sommerfeld> dclarke: and then there's that recent Nextel ad.. ("it's my way of sticking it to The Man" "But, you are The Man!"  "I know!"  ...)
[20:15:02] <dclarke> movement : my understanding is that there is some interest in logging all of the IRC traffic and sticking it in the OpenSolaris.org site as wel las some new thing called Planet Solaris or whatever it is
[20:15:26] <movement> right...
[20:15:32] <dclarke> the idea was that the OpenSolaris.org site was supposed to be community driven .. its not
[20:15:43] <dclarke> that idea is fading rapidly
[20:15:58] <movement> you just jumped about 500 steps there.
[20:16:04] <moazamraja> heh
[20:16:14] <eboutilier> dclarke: your understanding of what *I* said???
[20:16:15] <eboutilier> Nope.
[20:16:55] <alanc> all the IRC traffic has been logged for months - the log URL is sent to everyone who joins the channel in the welcome message
[20:17:11] <alanc> putting a link to it on opensolaris.org would just make it easier to find
[20:17:21] <dclarke> logged to OpenSolaris.org ?
[20:17:26] <dclarke> I don't think  it is
[20:17:33] <alanc> no, logged by one of those community member things
[20:17:43] <dclarke> okay .. fine
[20:17:43] <eboutilier> alanc: Yes, I just posted a message about that about 10 minutes ago in fact.
[20:17:54] <dclarke> but its not all over the OpenSolaris.org site is it ?
[20:18:02] <eboutilier> alanc: The archive that is.
[20:18:06] <alanc>  [#opensolaris] Welcome to #opensolaris. Please see the following URLs for more information. 'The OpenSolaris Wiki' @ http://www.genunix.org/wiki, 'What is OpenSolaris?' @ http://whacked.net/what_is_opensolaris, and the #opensolaris IRC channel log @ http://www.uwyn.com/drone/log/bevinbot/opensolaris. Of course, please visit the main OpenSolaris website at http://www.opensolaris.org
[20:18:29] * dclarke turns off the channel header usually
[20:18:36] <alanc> so now you're complaining that opensolaris.org shouldn't point to a community member log ?
[20:18:38] <eboutilier> Here's the thread in case it helps...
[20:18:42] <eboutilier> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=19271&tstart=0
[20:18:58] <eboutilier> (helps  others who are just hearing about this that is)
[20:19:10] <dclarke> alanc : no
[20:19:33] <dclarke> alanc : my irratation is with the idea of the whole IRC channel log being on the OpenSolaris site itself
[20:19:52] <dclarke> alanc : sort of like .. blogs .. do we mass feed all of them or a subset or what
[20:19:57] <movement> and that means we should go closed source again? right...
[20:20:07] <dclarke> and .. let's face it .. in the end .. I'm not involved anywys
[20:20:12] <eboutilier> s/this that/what this/
[20:20:33] <dclarke> movement : okay .. who are you please ?
[20:20:41] <eboutilier> dclark: You can stop being irritated then because nobody posed that idea.
[20:20:44] <dclarke> alanc is Alan Coopersmith .. everyone knows him
[20:20:52] <dclarke> eboutilier is well known
[20:21:05] <dclarke> movement is ?
[20:21:14] <movement> what does that matter?
[20:21:32] <dclarke> okay .. it doesn't
[20:21:35] <dclarke> fine ..
[20:21:54] <movement> I'm only asking you to explain what your issue is, IDGI.
[20:22:00] <dclarke> look .. does anyone here have a clue what the traffic to the OpenSolaris site looks like ?
[20:22:21] <dclarke> is it holding?  growing ? what ?
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[20:23:55] <eboutilier> dclarke: The people who track that kind of thing don't hang out here as far as I know.
[20:24:11] <dclarke> eboutilier :  seems like a lot of people don't
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[20:24:25] <darrenm> dclarke: what is your problem with the IRC being logged
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[20:24:42] <dclarke> darrenm :  its mostly noise
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[20:24:59] <dclarke> darrenm :  so why stick it on the OpenSolaris.org site ?
[20:25:12] <dclarke> darrenm :  if there is a link to some log somewhere .. fine ..
[20:25:20] <darrenm> ah okay I now understand
[20:26:02] <eboutilier> dclarke: In case there still any confusion. sticking it on the opensolaris.org site isn't what anybody wants.
[20:26:26] * dclarke is sooo lost
[20:26:31] <eboutilier> Not sure why I'm having trouble getting that across.
[20:26:42] <dclarke> okay .. I'm going to go make a cup of tea .. take a moment .. be back in a bit
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[20:29:32] <moazamraja> ahhh, the wonders of communist^H^Hty :)
[20:30:45] <dclarke> now .. that was funny
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[20:32:14] <stevel> yay. proxy musta died
[20:33:42] <darrenm> stevel: http or socks ?
[20:33:55] <stevel> not sure, whatever solarisjon, alanc, and dduvall were using
[20:33:58] <stevel> /whowas dduvall
[20:34:06] <stevel> durn. gaim doesn't support that command
[20:35:01] <Gman_> * [dduvall] (i=dduvall@nat/sun/x-1241a5a8bf82dc0a): Danek Duvall
[20:35:04] <Gman_> not obvious
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[20:35:35] <Gman_> yippi, when are we going to get xchat into solaris? :)
[20:35:43] <eboutilier> stevel: You know how you were talking about graphical diff tools  earlier?
[20:35:44] * steleman reads the thread about the Mythical QT Can Of Worms(TM)
[20:35:49] <stevel> eboutilier: yeah
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[20:36:11] <eboutilier> stevel: Maybe try out tkdiff too.
[20:36:32] <stevel> i think that was already mentioned
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[20:36:40] <eboutilier> It's pretty good, plus no porting requires since it's a wish script.
[20:36:41] <stevel> (this was re: the whole thread on GUI file merge utilities on tools-discuss)
[20:36:45] <eboutilier> Oh.
[20:37:05] <alanc> I'm using the socks proxy here, the http proxy at home, looks like both reset
[20:37:35] <stevel> hrm. odd
[20:37:54] <tomww> hi all :-)
[20:38:04] <alanc> steleman: most of the nastiness in the QT Can of Worms is inherited from the parent class: C++ Can of Worms
[20:38:09] * eboutilier heads over to tools-discuss to read that thread
[20:38:28] <steleman> alanc: and who cares ? those who care about C++ will deal with it. those who don't won't touch it.
[20:39:20] <alanc> the question came up of shipping a libqt in Solaris, in which case, you have to care - you either ship multiple copies or pick one compiler that everyone has to use who wants to build against it
[20:39:47] <dclarke> so use Studio 11
[20:39:50] <alanc> ("you" being a generic "person doing the qt integration", not specifically you personally)
[20:40:09] <stevel> lol
[20:40:19] <stevel> i read that as "you" == steleman
[20:40:21] <moazamraja> alanc is becoming a lawyer
[20:40:28] <stevel> given that well... he does have to care :)
[20:40:43] <alanc> well, we just assume that if it was going to happen, he's the most likely victim
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[20:41:05] <steleman> alanc: "you" (i.e. me == steleman) pick SunStudio 11, built QT 3.3.7, put it in /usr/gnu, make the source available and then tell everyone interested that, if they want QT support, they can contact Trolltec and buy it from them.
[20:41:36] <Gman_> why /usr/gnu?
[20:41:45] * dclarke shiver ..
[20:41:54] <steleman> GMan: well because the argument was made that GPL "things" should go in /usr/gnu
[20:41:58] <dclarke> please .. into /opt/FOOqt
[20:42:03] <alanc> oh, yeah, I was forgetting the whole license thing
[20:42:04] <Gman_> no, i don't think that's right
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[20:42:06] <steleman> and the hypothetical Sun QT would be GPL
[20:42:23] <dclarke> so /opt/SUNWqt
[20:42:30] <Gman_> things in /usr/gnu were meant for bits and pieces already in solaris, but we wanted to ship the GNU equivalent too
[20:42:33] <alanc> /opt/FOOqt would only be for unbundled, not for something shipped as part of Solaris
[20:42:36] <Gman_> [or so i understood]
[20:42:50] <steleman> \/opt/SUNWqt would be even better
[20:42:57] <stevel> gman_: that was my understanding too, i.e.: our "g*" tools
[20:42:58] * eboutilier agrees with Gman_
[20:43:01] <Gman_> otherwise half of gnome would be in there too :)
[20:43:04] <alanc> yes, /usr/gnu is only supposed to be for things like gnu ls or gnu sed that clash with existing /usr/bin tools
[20:43:07] <steleman> anyway it's not like the precise location of Sun QT is being decided right now :-P
[20:43:09] <stevel> e.g.: /usr/bin/gtar moves to /usr/gnu/bin/tar
[20:43:39] <steleman> personally it makes 0 difference to me where it ends up
[20:43:46] <steleman> as long as it's not /dev/null :-)
[20:43:54] * dclarke in /tmp then .. it will load fast
[20:44:00] <eboutilier> stevel: That would be /usr/sfw/bin/gtar moves to...
[20:44:09] <stevel> eboutilier: right, sorry
[20:44:26] <Gman_> i wouldn't be opposed to shipping qt on solaris
[20:44:37] <dclarke> put it in /opt/csw ... oops .. never mind .. its already there
[20:44:37] <steleman> but apparently /dev/null is the most likely candidate because of the Mythical QT Can Of Worms(TM)
[20:45:07] <alanc> Can of Worms doesn't make it impossible, just makes you do some hard thinking first
[20:45:14] <Gman_> steleman, you could just give it a suitable interface stability classification
[20:45:24] <Gman_> that might workaround the problem
[20:45:31] <Gman_> unsupported volatile library
[20:45:34] <eboutilier> So if we put libqt in /usr/lib, would it be the first thing ever  put there that was compiler dependent?
[20:45:39] <steleman> Gman_ it's easier to do this with QT because their interfaces are actually Stable within Major Release Versions
[20:45:58] <darrenm> steleman: API yes, what about the ABI ?
[20:46:01] <Gman_> steleman, yeah, i don't think the actual api is the issue, just the abi
[20:46:05] <steleman> so qt3 is API/ABI binary compatible within all QT3 releases
[20:46:11] <Gman_> [by virtue of c++]
[20:46:21] <darrenm> compiled with the same compiler though
[20:46:27] <steleman> darrenm: who cares about g++'s ABI ? g++'s ABI is binary incompatible with itself.
[20:46:49] <eboutilier> eboutilier: I bet it isn't.
[20:46:50] <steleman> the C++ Standard does NOT require or specify any ABI compatibility. why should we ?
[20:46:51] <jbk> has anyone tried to do HA with solaris printing?
[20:47:06] <darrenm> the care is that you have g++ and CC from Studio 11 if you compile the library with one you can't necessarily compile applications with the other.
[20:47:09] <darrenm> Solaris cares about that
[20:47:29] <steleman> and Solaris is built with Sun Studio, not with GCC.
[20:47:47] <alanc> except for the parts built with gcc
[20:47:49] <steleman> should we also care about Comeau or EDG ?
[20:47:58] <eboutilier> alanc: :)
[20:48:11] <darrenm> so if we ship a libqt that is built with Studio it means someone using Solaris who wants to use the bundled libqt can't compile their application with g++ and have it work
[20:48:14] <alanc> like all of the AMD64 bits of ON in Solaris 10 that were built with /usr/sfw/bin/gcc
[20:48:38] <steleman> darrenm: that is a Feature Of The C++ Standard. Any complaints can be addressed to the C++ Standards Committee.
[20:48:51] <eboutilier> darrenm: We (our customers) live with that kind of problem all the time.
[20:48:56] <steleman> alanc: isn't S10U2 06/06 built with SunStudio ?
[20:49:05] <steleman> (even the amd64 bits) ?
[20:49:10] <eboutilier> they solve it by building their own.
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[20:49:18] <eboutilier> apache, perl, etc.
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[20:49:28] <alanc> I think ON still uses gcc for all S10 updates since update releases don't change compilers from the base release
[20:49:37] <alanc> ON moved to Sun Studio cc in Nevada
[20:49:41] <eboutilier> For a different reason though of course.
[20:49:51] <darrenm> when the choice between KDE and GNOME was being discussed - prior to OpenSolaris! the C++ ABI was one of the issues against KDE for this very reason.
[20:49:52] <alanc> though I'm looking at using gcc for Xorg on x86 in Nevada
[20:50:01] <eboutilier> That reason being they don't like the version or the way we built  apache, perl. etc.
[20:50:02] <darrenm> while we didn't ship gcc/g++ that could have been okay
[20:50:18] <darrenm> there is a difference between "don't like" and like but can't use
[20:50:37] <darrenm> alanc: why looking at gcc for Xorg ?
[20:50:40] <steleman> darrenm: and at that time, SunStudio was not a free download. so, if Sun built QT with SunSTudio, it would have been perceived as a way of forcing customers to buy a Forte license, which was expensive. That is no longer the case.
[20:50:49] <darrenm> true
[20:51:13] <steleman> besides it will always be an unanswered question for me why would anyone pick g++ over SunStudio
[20:51:34] <darrenm> because g++ is *in* Solaris :-)
[20:51:43] * Gman_ ^5s darrenm
[20:51:43] <eboutilier> darrenm: But they could use at libqt built with Studio. Studio's free now.
[20:51:54] <darrenm> and because there is lots of code out their with gcc specific ism's in it
[20:52:06] <steleman> darrenm: but g++s' C++ optimizations SUCK(TM).
[20:52:18] <steleman> darrenm: not in QT. it is actually quite clean.
[20:52:25] <alanc> darrenm: gcc inline assembly, including the MMX acceleration of alpha blending
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[20:52:43] * Gman_ images a hell of a lot more people use gcc/g++ than sun studio right now
[20:52:49] <andersmo> qt is built and tested regularly on a lot of platforms, afaik.
[20:52:57] <darrenm> alanc: nice!   and Studio isn't recognising that yet asm inline yet - I thought there was work on that
[20:53:18] <darrenm> Gman_: indeed which is why building a libqt with studio might not be the good choice
[20:53:23] <andersmo> So it probably isn't too nasty. =)
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[20:53:39] <steleman> welcome the "check out our SUCKY SPARC OPTIMIZATIONS BUILD OF QT" release
[20:53:42] <darrenm> I wonder if we can do some linker magic ;-)
[20:53:57] <darrenm> steleman: so build it with studio on SPARC and gcc on x86 ;-)
[20:54:00] <alanc> not yet - they're working on at least some for Studio 12, but until that's ready, we have to choose between build-Sun-on-Sun (cc) or get-best-performance (gcc)
[20:54:15] <steleman> darrenm: i can think of even better definitions of HELL.
[20:54:18] <darrenm> alanc: same problem for OpenSSL in ON.
[20:54:26] <eboutilier> Let's build it with g++ then. I just think it's about time it's "Just There" one way or the other.
[20:54:38] <darrenm> steleman: :-)  and people wonder why I care about the ABI as much as the API stability!
[20:54:41] <steleman> eboutilier: why ? so it thoroughly sucks ?
[20:54:52] <alanc> sadly, g++ is even more complicated, since g++ changes ABI between versions, so you
[20:54:59] <alanc> 're choosing a specific version of g++
[20:55:10] <steleman> eboutilier: and you have't even eliminated the ABI problem. you eliminated it for this week only.
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[20:55:25] <steleman> the g++ C++ ABI is subject to change without notice.
[20:55:26] <alanc> Sun Studio C++ at version 5 - it's changed product names a half dozen times since then, but not ABI
[20:55:35] <darrenm> Which might be one of the reasons that Skype on Linux has a build with a static libqt
[20:55:47] <mbadaro> 4-processor linux server with a bunch of users who all run a bunch of jobs
[20:55:49] <mbadaro> if user A runs 2 simultaneous jobs and user B runs 1, I don't want user A to get more cycles just because they have two jobs
[20:55:54] <darrenm> which was good since it worked for me on Solaris just nicely!
[20:55:57] <eboutilier> steleman: Why a week only?
[20:55:58] <mbadaro> I want user B's one job to get 50% of the available processing resources, and user A to get 50% total, split between his jobs
[20:56:05] <steleman> darrenm: actually it's because they used the free version of QT but they dont release the source code for Skype. same reason as Google Earth.
[20:56:07] <mbadaro> I want user B's one job to get 50% of the available processing resources, and user A to get 50% total, split between his jobs
[20:56:13] <mbadaro> is there any way to do this please?
[20:56:29] <darrenm> mbadaro: do you want the Solaris answer or the Linux answer ?
[20:56:46] <mbadaro> Solaris and Linux if possible
[20:56:53] <stevel> Linux answer: install Solaris
[20:56:56] <mbadaro> I think in Solaris this is accomplished with project groups and fair share scheduling
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[20:57:08] <darrenm> For Solaris use the fairshare scheduler and give A and B appropriate shares
[20:57:10] <steleman> eboutilier: because the moment we build QT with g++ people will assume that it will be ABI compatible between different g++ versions. and that is not the case, and users will learn it the hard way, and eventually the blame will boomerang back to Sun.
[20:57:11] <mbadaro> and solaris answer?
[20:57:12] <mbadaro> :)
[20:57:16] <darrenm> this can be done using projects
[20:57:19] <stevel> Solaris answer: projects, resource controls
[20:57:21] <stevel> cpu-caps too
[20:57:27] <darrenm> and can even be done in a zone and to a zone
[20:57:45] <stevel> projects+cpu-caps would control that situation quite nicely
[20:57:48] <eboutilier> It seems to me we say: Whatever version of g++ is in a given version of Solaris is the g++ you
[20:57:48] <eboutilier> need to you use to build against the libqt we put in /usr/lib
[20:57:50] <Gman_> stevel, i hope there's a gui for that :)
[20:57:53] <darrenm> last I looked Linux couldn't do that but my Linux knowledge is out of date
[20:58:08] <mbadaro> ah okay
[20:58:18] <stevel> gman_: nope :-P
[20:58:23] <darrenm> eboutilier: I think that is a reasonable compromise for the g++ ABI but still doesn't help with the pepole that one to use Studio
[20:58:34] <steleman> so why can' we say QT is built with SunStudio which has been ABI compatible since Workshop 5.
[20:58:45] <darrenm> err I thought there was a GUI for resource management.
[20:58:57] <eboutilier> darrenm: They'd have to build their own. No biggie IMO.
[20:58:58] <stevel> darrenm: ah, i was saying for cpu-caps there isn't currently a GUI
[20:59:51] <andersmo> mbadaro: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-1592/6mhahuogv#hic - here's how to do it on solaris. =)
[21:00:10] <movement> steleman: because I bet a hell of a lot of stuff won't build with studio, or not easily
[21:00:18] <eboutilier> Hmm, how about Studio-built QT in /usr/lib and g++ built QT in /usr/gnu/lib...
[21:00:35] <yippi> Gman, I keep telling people that we should put xchat into Solaris, but nobody listens to me!
[21:00:38] <eboutilier> No that kinda bastardizes the purpose for /usr/gnu
[21:00:51] <dclarke> hello ?  anyone here using the SWAN ?
[21:01:04] <eboutilier> dclarke: Not me, sorry.
[21:01:06] <dclarke> I have an engineer that wants to chat but can not get IRC to go
[21:01:13] <steleman> eboutilier: then Studio QT in /usr/lib and g++ QT in /opt/sfw ?
[21:01:41] <darrenm> dclarke: yeah I'm on SWAN - via punchin
[21:01:46] <eboutilier> steleman: Hm, I like that.
[21:01:57] <movement> eboutilier: hrm, please no, /opt/sfw should be going away
[21:02:00] <stevel> dclarke: tell him he needs to setup his proxies
[21:02:01] <dclarke> darrenm :  how do you get onto IRC ? via some web site ?
[21:02:06] <dclarke> her
[21:02:08] <darrenm> dclarke: said engineer needs to set gaim or what ever he is using for IRC to use an appropriate proxy
[21:02:13] <dclarke> what proxies ?
[21:02:19] <darrenm> webache is usually the name of the web proxy in SWAN domains
[21:02:22] <darrenm> port 8080
[21:02:25] <steleman> (underlying connotation: He who links against /opt/sfw is Not A Real Man(TM))
[21:02:26] <Gman_> yippi, force the issue a little more
[21:02:40] <eboutilier> dclarke: When i'm on SWAN I use brmea-socks
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[21:02:59] <stevel> dclarke: http://tonic.eng/space/SOCKS+Proxy+Information
[21:03:12] <stevel> if she wants to use the SOCKS proxies
[21:03:27] <dclarke> let me direct her there
[21:03:31] <dclarke> thats internal no ?
[21:03:34] <stevel> yes
[21:03:37] <Gman> you can use web proxies too
[21:03:44] <stevel> you can
[21:03:44] <Gman> either work fine
[21:03:50] <dclarke> one sec ..
[21:03:55] * stevel uses no proxies!
[21:04:09] <Gman> stevel, that's part of some rollout isn't it?
[21:04:10] * stevel is special
[21:04:11] * Gman can't quite remember
[21:04:12] <eboutilier> I use to  have problems with web proxies, then stevel showed me the light.
[21:04:19] <stevel> gman: supposedly it was going to be on a broader rollout
[21:04:20] <darrenm> being on the edge helps
[21:04:22] <Gman> i was always jealous of that when i visited santa clara
[21:04:28] <stevel> but i haven't seen anything about it
[21:04:41] <darrenm> edgemail, edgecal, edgeim but when on SWAN need proxy to get to external IRC
[21:04:55] <stevel> darrenm: nope, certain hosts are allowed direct internet access
[21:05:07] <Gman> yeah, edgemail is actually quite useful, except when it's down mostly every week ;)
[21:05:08] <stevel> darrenm: login to my workstation: donuthole.sfbay
[21:05:16] <darrenm> yeah I remember that
[21:05:36] <darrenm> but I'm UK based now so not much use bouncing backand forward over the atlantic ;-)
[21:05:45] <stevel> ah
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[21:05:57] * Gman has his mail server in emea :(
[21:06:26] <hile_> you need to fix that, bro :)
[21:06:59] <Gman> i can't afford being down for a week because of it
[21:07:21] <nergal> hi, is opensolaris possible to install from ftp by using a boot disc?
[21:07:46] <hile_> not in the way you're expecting
[21:07:58] <nergal> what should I expect if there is a way? ;)
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[21:09:52] * steleman goes back to writing the PHP ARC case
[21:10:04] * steleman commits ritual suicide
[21:10:41] <darrenm> steleman: so that would be the last missing part of SAMP ?
[21:11:01] <steleman> darrenm: i have so far about 30 missing parts. where would you like me to start ? :-)
[21:11:17] <darrenm> steleman: eek I thought we were closer than that!
[21:11:20] <steleman> darrenm: probably the biggest one is 64-bit Apache
[21:11:42] <darrenm> Hmn why do we need 64bit Apache ?
[21:11:43] <steleman> darrenm: i'm done building all of them and now i'm writing about 20 ARC cases
[21:12:06] <steleman> darrenm: because customer asked for 64-bit Apache because they want 64-bit Java which lead to 64-bit PHP
[21:12:51] <Error_404> darrenm: it's twice as good as 32 bit apache
[21:12:51] <steleman> customer in question being Big Important Customer We Do Not Want To Piss Off(TM)
[21:13:33] <darrenm> we already deliver 64bit OpenSSL so 64bit mod_ssl for Apache should be fine.
[21:13:45] * hile_ has a feeling said customer is not his employer
[21:13:48] <steleman> darrenm: oh yeah OpenSSL i did not even have to touch it
[21:13:59] <darrenm> yeah!
[21:14:02] <steleman> now GNU MP was a different story. very different story
[21:14:09] <andersmo> 64-bit apache because of 64-bit java? Hm. Curious.
[21:14:33] <darrenm> steleman: you are using the OpenSSL from /usr/sfw/lib right ? and you do know it is about to move to /usr/lib ?
[21:15:10] <steleman> darrenm: yes that's the one i used. yah i know it's relocating to /usr/lib
[21:15:27] * steleman dances around because he didnt have to mess with OpenSSL :-)
[21:15:28] <darrenm> just checking!
[21:16:01] <steleman> now i'm just curious how compatible Sun kerberos5 will be with MIT Kerberos5
[21:16:33] <darrenm> the libkrb5 is actually a filter lib on mech_krb5 the list of functions it exposes was agreed with MIT
[21:16:34] <steleman> Sun SASL and LDAP were 100% compatible
[21:16:48] <darrenm> the code is actually a derivative of MIT
[21:16:55] <darrenm> we share and resync code with them a lot
[21:17:05] <steleman> darrenm: cool.
[21:17:22] <steleman> because the krb5 in S10U2 isn't that compatible (./configure barfed on it)
[21:17:23] <Gman> heh, simon seems rather happy to have a hackergotchi - he's put it on his blog :)
[21:18:13] <darrenm> steleman: there is no libkrb5 in S10U2 IIRC
[21:18:28] <darrenm> you can't link against mech_krb5.so that isn't supported and probably doesn't work
[21:18:41] <steleman> darrenm: there is something which looks like krb5 but it ain't the real mccoy
[21:18:49] <darrenm> right
[21:18:55] <steleman> and that explains why it didnt work
[21:19:03] <steleman> so i had to build MIT krb5
[21:19:04] <darrenm> libkrb5 is either U3 or U4 can't remember which it was/is targeting
[21:19:06] <steleman> to test PHP
[21:19:10] <steleman> i think U4
[21:19:14] <darrenm> talk to Glenn Barry
[21:19:42] <steleman> yah
[21:19:57] <darrenm> time for me to go - actually long past time for me to go - will be getting my ear bent by wife (even though I'm only upstairs ;-))
[21:20:00] <steleman> i'll give him a heads-up that he might get complaints from me :-)
[21:20:12] <stevel> 'night darren
[21:20:18] <steleman> night darren
[21:20:38] <stevel> gman: lol. hadn't noticed that :)
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[21:23:43] <Gman> hrm, anyone noticed punchin doing strange things - can't resync my connection, but when i stop it and start it again, it works fine :/
[21:24:24] <movement> I've seen it do that sometimes
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[21:24:52] <Gman> dunno whether it's my connection - kinda frustrating
[21:25:13] <Gman> i tend to blame my isp for most of these sorts of things
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[21:35:21] <coffman> i got a problem with a package
[21:35:47] <coffman> i recently installed a patch for it that made it global only
[21:35:57] <coffman> is there a way to change that back?
[21:36:36] <coffman> i mean can i force it to be global?
[21:36:44] <coffman> or did i need to reinstall it?
[21:42:43] <axisys> is there some concern w/ new day light saving coming up next year.. should there be patch to update timezones?
[21:43:27] <axisys> i guess replication servers on different timezone need to sync up
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[21:46:48] <axisys> btw anyone know of a mysql client to access a remote mysql server for solaris?
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[21:47:45] <stevel> what's wrong with the mysql binary?
[21:47:53] <stevel> or am i misunderstanding the question
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[21:48:15] <axisys> stevel: well for that i need to install the whole mysql on a system
[21:48:26] <stevel> ah. you want client only
[21:48:28] <axisys> may be some java client to access mysql server
[21:48:32] <axisys> stevel: yep
[21:48:40] <axisys> remote server that is
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[22:07:58] <alanc> someone has got to stop kicking the Sun proxy servers around
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[22:12:00] <klepplap> isn't one of your selling points stability and reliability? :P
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[22:12:25] <klepplap> hahah
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[22:17:16] <alanc> sure, but I don't think we sell SOCKS proxy servers
[22:17:29] <alanc> or internet ISP service
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[22:18:00] <alanc> (not sure whether the socks proxy is crashing or the net connection is flipping out - I just see getting disconnected and reconnected)
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[22:25:42] <richlowe> alanc: get on whatever proxy stevel uses.
[22:25:48] <richlowe> alanc: he seems to survive when the rest of you don't.
[22:26:31] <alanc> the strange thing is that I'm using two different proxies that both go down at the same time
[22:26:53] <alanc> though I think they're both going out the same pipe to the net
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[22:28:04] <alanc> need to fix IRC at home to reconnect me as alanc_away instead of alanc_____
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[22:32:48] <stevel> richlowe: i'm not on a proxy
[22:33:00] <stevel> he would have to IRC through my machine
[22:33:03] <tomww> alanc: which irc-client?
[22:33:08] <stevel> maybe i should run a proxy on my machine :-P
[22:33:14] <alanc> xchat
[22:33:38] <richlowe> stevel: Oh.
[22:33:43] <alanc> I just need to set the nickname in the server settings menu
[22:35:21] <tomww> wich my client irssi this is stored in the config too. for reconnects an extra script does the nickserv auth nicely .)
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[22:46:28] <_william_> hi all
[22:51:56] <alanc> ooh, virus mail claiming to be from nrubsig - it'd be scary if it wasn't the third copy in a row, each with a different random From: address
[22:55:37] <richlowe> You could tell if it was from Roland, it'd need you to bfu prototype_004 archives before you opened the mail :)
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[23:12:44] <_william_> gn
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[23:15:43] <Plaidrab> We got to the ZFS class today. Hee. Half the folks in there were "nu-uh. It can't possibly do all that!"
[23:16:30] <Auralis> heh
[23:17:37] <moazamraja> Plaidrab: I was at a ZFS presentation (technical/internals), and everyone kept asking "I don't get it...HOW can it do that???"
[23:18:13] <Plaidrab> Indeed.
[23:18:37] <Plaidrab> It is a little hard to take, but once you digest it you also have to wonder "Why the hell hasn't it been this easy for at least the last few years?
[23:19:02] <Plaidrab> Oh, and I heard a delightfully scandalous rumour that I half hope is true, half hope is false.
[23:20:24] <moazamraja> Plaidrab: ???
[23:20:46] <Plaidrab> The rumour being that Sun was gonna spin off into Hardware and software and then McNealy was gonna take hardware private.
[23:21:02] <moazamraja> ehh...been hearing this type of stuff for ages :/
[23:21:20] <Plaidrab> Yes, well, West Virginia isn't exactly at the front of the rumour mill
[23:21:28] <postwait> Interesting... ZFS doesn't do much more than VxVM/VxFS.
[23:21:31] <postwait> which has been around for agers.
[23:21:48] <Plaidrab> It does quite a bit more.
[23:22:30] <Plaidrab> Self healing, alone.
[23:22:50] <Plaidrab> 16, I think it was, 9s.
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[23:23:25] <Plaidrab> Learnable in half a day.
[23:23:39] <sommerfeld> the "16 9's" is the probability that data corruption will be detected.
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[23:24:50] <Plaidrab> I was given that number as the reliability (in testing) the probability of occurance, not of detection
[23:25:46] <sommerfeld> well, it's the probability of detection.
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[23:28:17] <Plaidrab> So you you're saying it only stand a .00000000000001 chance of spotting actual corruption
[23:29:01] <Plaidrab> Not terribly reliable then
[23:29:02] <richlowe> no, that chance of *missing* it.
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[23:29:24] <Plaidrab> Then his phrasing there was horrid. :)
[23:30:08] <richlowe> how the hell did I manage to respond to a mail from fiveash, and reply to myself, but not him?
[23:30:11] <Plaidrab> How about chance of failing to detect (and presumably repair) corruption. :)
[23:30:12] <richlowe> more caffeine!
[23:30:21] <Plaidrab> Have some of my Jolt Blue?
[23:31:18] <Plaidrab> Mostly I'm just thrilled with how easy it is to set up
[23:32:05] <Plaidrab> I'm tempted to acquire a a d1000 or the like just to play with it
[23:32:16] <moazamraja> those things are heavy, and loud
[23:32:32] <bobbyz> Hey, how do you setup keyboard layouts in solaris?  When I ssh into my solaris 10 06/06 box and run mc, the F1-F12 keys don't work properly.
[23:33:26] <bobbyz> for example, pressing F7 send '18~' to the mc shell prompt instead of creating a new directory
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[23:35:57] <Plaidrab> They're a little heavcy, I suppose. not that loud. It's not like an EMC or something
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[23:36:46] <Plaidrab> Um. F7 is supposed to create a new directory? That's a new one on me
[23:36:50] <coffman> bobbyz: thats more the problem of ur terminal
[23:37:19] <bobbyz> ahh...so the terminal on my linux box I am ssh'ing from is what's causing it?
[23:37:23] <sickness> mkdir is supposed to do that...
[23:37:27] <pjurisprudencia> anybody have changed the community string and define the hosts in snmp on solaris 10?
[23:37:31] <sickness> otherwise try ESC+7
[23:37:34] <Plaidrab> echo $TERM, boobyz
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[23:37:48] <bobbyz> Plaidrab: vt100
[23:38:00] <Plaidrab> That seems normal enough
[23:38:16] <bobbyz> sickness: thanks esc+num does it
[23:38:23] <sickness> bobbyz: :)
[23:38:27] <bobbyz> :)
[23:38:36] <coffman> bobbyz: well via remote terminal i would stick by esc+num
[23:39:02] <bobbyz> coffman: sounds good.  Unless it's something easy to work around, I can adjust to pressing escape
[23:39:07] <coffman> bobbyz: u can also set  a propper terminal on the solaris box like xterm or so
[23:39:30] <coffman> hm
[23:39:34] <bobbyz> yeah, problem is I have very, very few packages installed on the solaris box (100 or so)
[23:39:56] <tomww> and try rxvt from the companion-collection. it has sometimes mor luck with special keys...
[23:40:12] <bobbyz> I'm not using any x packages on the solaris box  :)
[23:40:13] <coffman> bobbyz: i would start over with a reinstall :)
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[23:40:46] <coffman> unless u realy know what u are doing u should stick with default+oem
[23:40:52] <coffman> less trouble man
[23:41:12] <bobbyz> coffman: nah, that's alright.   I'm just using the box as a fileserver.  Really I haven't been having any problems
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[23:41:21] <bobbyz> it's just the function key thing through me off
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[23:41:30] <bobbyz> threw
[23:41:33] <coffman> hmpf
[23:41:33] <bobbyz> threw
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[23:42:02] <coffman> is there a place where i can download packages that are on the install media?
[23:42:13] <bobbyz> coffman: why hmpf?  :)  All has been well so far.
[23:42:22] <asyd>  /S 12
[23:42:23] <coffman> bobbyz: not u :)
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[23:42:28] <bobbyz> ahh
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[23:43:10] <coffman> i know it was a bad idea to have only one  sparc system around
[23:43:11] <coffman> grr
[23:44:22] <bobbyz> coffman: you can just pkgadd -d /cdrom/Solaris_10/Product <package name> if you have the CD/DVD sitting around, or just download the whole CD/DVD image again
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[23:45:06] <coffman> bobbyz: thx, now i hate u :)
[23:45:14] <bobbyz> why?  :)
[23:45:25] <coffman> im not physical near that system
[23:45:56] <bobbyz> ohh...then download the disc to wherever you are, mount the image, and scp the needed packages over
[23:46:19] <coffman> and after the image would  downloadet i would be there again
[23:46:29] <coffman> bobbyz: sure
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[23:46:35] <coffman> target system is sparc
[23:46:44] <coffman> i have no sparc system around
[23:46:53] <coffman> u see where the problem lays?
[23:47:00] <bobbyz> but you can download the sparc disc image and mount it
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[23:47:05] <Auralis> download the image on the remote sparc
[23:47:06] <coffman> nope
[23:47:18] <coffman> Auralis: would take to long
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[23:47:45] <Auralis> well, you can't mount the first cd, but the other cds you can
[23:48:02] <lasseoe> you can mount the first cd as well
[23:48:09] <lasseoe> just have to extrac the slice
[23:48:18] <coffman> hm
[23:48:27] <coffman> i got the dvd image around
[23:48:32] <Auralis> lasseoe: ufs is endian specific
[23:48:39] <Auralis> the dvd should be mountable
[23:48:53] <lasseoe> Auralis: sure but why does he need the UFS slice?
[23:49:01] <lasseoe> admittedly I haven't followed the entire conversation :)
[23:49:06] <Auralis> because it contains the actuall software
[23:49:09] <coffman> Auralis: i cant find the package for it
[23:49:16] <lasseoe> nah e actual packages are on the HSFS slice
[23:49:34] <lasseoe> the first CD has two slices, one UFS and one HSFS
[23:49:40] <coffman> oooo
[23:50:02] <coffman> arent they there in form like *.pkg?
[23:50:24] <Auralis> they are in directory pkg format
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[23:50:29] <bobbyz> I think they are in directory form
[23:50:31] <bobbyz> yeah
[23:50:45] <coffman> oh
[23:50:57] <coffman> thx :)
[23:51:02] <coffman> thx :)
[23:51:52] <bobbyz> say, is there an equivalent esc+key or some other key sequence that works for the insert key as well?  That's the last key I need to work around for mc  :)
[23:53:19] <jbk> it is days like this that reaffirm my dislike of both the cold and snow
[23:53:33] <bobbyz> jbk: where are you located?
[23:53:55] <jbk> middle of nowhere, usa.. also known as kansas city :)
[23:54:06] <lasseoe> I was way off then
[23:54:18] <sickness> my advice is to use gnu screen, and use this sequence documented in the manual: Insert                kI          stuff \033[2~
[23:54:21] <bobbyz> ahh.  :)  I'm in Colorado.  We had a bunch of snow yesterday and I felt the same way
[23:54:26] <sickness> that should work...
[23:54:35] <jbk> ahh.. we're probably getting what you got yesterday then
[23:54:54] <bobbyz> jbk: yup
[23:54:55] <jbk> they're predicting between 8"-12" (20-30cm) of snow by tomorrow morning
[23:55:20] <bobbyz> sickness: thanks.  I use screen all the time but didn't realize there were key sequence mappings.  This is the first time I've run into keyboard mapping problems.  :)
[23:55:29] <sickness> eheh :)
[23:55:34] <bobbyz> jbk: eek.  That's worse than what we had
[23:55:55] <sickness> I use screen all the time too, but didn't know there was a sequence for insert key, I never need it :)
[23:56:00] <sickness> but screen manual is really useful sometimes ;P
[23:56:22] <bobbyz> sickness: amen.  I should have thought to read through it
[23:56:31] <jbk> took me almost 2 hours to get home, instead of the normal 25-30mins (though a lot of that is because due to where i work and where i live, you end up having to take mostly secondary streets to get there)
[23:56:40] <bobbyz> screen has to be one of the msot useful programs ever
[23:57:15] <jbk> yes.. it's the savior of flaky internet connections
[23:57:16] <jbk> :)
[23:57:23] <bobbyz> jbk: egads.  Yeah, slow commuting and terrible drivers are my worst beefs with snow.  I saw people driving 50 in 35s yesterday and I wanted to shoot them
[23:57:24] <sickness> bobbyz: I second that =)
[23:57:36] <bobbyz> :)
[23:58:19] <coffman> u could also change ur terminal
[23:58:21] <jbk> i saw a bit of that.. mostly people in suvs that seem to think they're indestructable
[23:58:34] <jbk> they forget, under the snow is about a 1/2" layer of ice
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