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[01:05:18] <gdamore> !seen masa
[01:05:22] <Drone> I've never seen masa talk in #opensolaris.
[01:05:41] <gdamore> oh well.  i wonder if masa-san ever uses irc.
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[01:32:45] <onbot> commit by ml149210:  6464581 assertion failed: bgep->bge_chip_state == BGE_CHIP_RESET; 6480901 bge support for PCI ID 14e4,1654; 6480903 bge support for PCI ID 14e4,1679; 6487521 primary network does not come up after system resume from suspended state.
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[01:53:18] <cla|> re
[01:53:53] <cla|> any staff around?
[01:54:03] <Gman> staff?
[01:54:17] <cla|> channel admins :)
[01:54:49] <cla|> 01:54:22 -ChanServ(ChanServ at services dot )- Channel [#opensolaris] is private
[01:54:54] <Gman> seemingly not, though i think jamesd is one
[01:55:29] <cla|> jamesd: ping
[01:55:42] <jamesd> i'm an op in this channel
[01:56:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd
[01:56:11] <cla|> who has access 50?
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[01:56:40] <jamesd> sparkly  i think
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[01:57:15] <Terinjokes> hey, i'm interested in running open solaris, how can i get started?
[01:57:28] <cla|> Terinjokes: read opensolaris.org
[01:57:34] <gdamore> wow.  none of my PCI NICs with 8169s are recognized by Solaris.  They all have different vendor/device ids.  Aargh.
[01:57:41] <jamesd> www.opensolaris.org
[01:57:52] <gdamore> (realtek 8169s).
[01:58:03] <Terinjokes> cia| i have
[01:58:07] <cla|> jamesd: anyway, i'd like to get onbot to #opensolaris-pl
[01:58:13] <gdamore> (And I'm trying to find something that I can use to netinstall..   grrr....
[01:58:54] <jamesd> create the channel.. if no one owns it, its yours
[01:59:03] <Terinjokes> is any one of http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/distributions/ gentoo-ish? or are they all ubuntu-ish?
[01:59:36] <jamesd> nexenta is based on debian/ubuntu
[01:59:49] <cla|> jamesd: channel is created, we are working on polish translations of OS docs and locales
[02:00:13] <Terinjokes> anything more torward gentoo? i prefer working on the command line building up the system
[02:01:06] <delewis> Terinjokes, no
[02:01:29] <jamesd> solaris  is all about command line...  but it doesn't do  dependencies
[02:01:44] <Terinjokes> solaris is more toward servers, right?
[02:01:45] <gdamore> Terinjokes: just install Solaris Express Community Edition. :-)
[02:01:50] <delewis> Terinjokes, you do not prefer building up the system.
[02:01:53] <delewis> you prefer someone doing it for you
[02:02:02] <cla|> http://tinyurl.com/y8owgv
[02:02:04] <delewis> there is a distinction.
[02:02:05] <cla|> jamesd: ^
[02:02:24] <gdamore> generally, yes, more for servers.  but I've been using it on my desktop for nearly a decade.
[02:02:25] <Plaidrab> Well, he could install the Network minimal install.
[02:02:42] <delewis> I've been using Solaris on my primary workstation for quite some time now.
[02:02:45] <Gman> richlowe, so i imagine the on notification stuff really sucks when there's lack of access to a bug database and full arc case...
[02:02:45] <Terinjokes> i'll take it a laptop isn't a great place for solaris :)
[02:02:50] <delewis> Terinjokes, sure it is
[02:02:57] <delewis> provided your laptop's components are supported
[02:03:06] <gdamore> actually, my company produces laptops designed for Solaris. :-)
[02:03:11] <jamesd> cla|, sorry.. i'm on a painfully slow connection currently.. can't check it out...
[02:03:14] <delewis> you can run any OS on any operating system, but this depends upon how masochistic you are.
[02:03:15] <Terinjokes> Apple iBooks?
[02:03:36] <delewis> asking whether or not you should run Solaris on a desktop is not a question that Solaris can address, but only you can address by your desires and needs.
[02:03:51] <cla|> jamesd: ok, so tell me, who could i speak about onbot?
[02:04:00] <Terinjokes> hrm, i might try out solaris later...thanks
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[02:04:03] <cla|> jamesd: or show me pleas /msg chanserv access #opensolaris list
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[02:06:20] <cla|> ja thanks :)
[02:06:25] <cla|> jamesd: thanks
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[02:09:19] <cla|> Last Seen: 2 weeks 6 days (3h 39m 12s) ago
[02:09:20] <cla|> huh
[02:09:46] <cla|> and who is owner of onbot?
[02:10:18] <jamesd>  /whois onbot
[02:10:33] <cla|> no info there :)
[02:10:38] <cla|> already checked
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[02:10:51] <jamesd> that is all the info we have
[02:11:03] <jamesd> onbot is not an op here
[02:11:04] <onbot> jamesd: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
[02:11:11] <cla|> lol
[02:11:39] <cla|> jamesd: ok, its a bot only :)
[02:12:06] <cla|> i would like him to join our channel if it is not a problem
[02:13:55] <jamesd> cla|, message the bot.. we have no control over him
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[02:14:22] <cla|> lol, someone has to be its owner :)
[02:14:35] <cla|> onbot: ping
[02:14:36] <onbot> pong
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[02:21:39] <richlowe> Gman: nice try, no cookie.
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[02:28:22] <jmcp> morning all
[02:28:29] <richlowe> mornin'
[02:28:45] <jamesd> hi
[02:28:49] <zarathustra> morning ?
[02:29:06] <jamesd> zarathustra, its the way of china, and auzzie land
[02:29:30] <richlowe> it should be afternoon in oz by now.
[02:29:43] <zarathustra> here 19:29
[02:29:52] <jmcp> zarathustra: it's still 0930-ish in Beijing
[02:30:02] <jmcp> richlowe: I don't fly back until friday evening
[02:30:05] <zarathustra> jmcp: :O
[02:33:26] <richlowe> jmcp: I suspect you have dumpadm on install media
[02:33:47] <richlowe> of course, you'd need to get up far enough to *use* it, but...
[02:35:35] * sniffy &
[02:35:58] <jmcp> richlowe: yeah. though I was thiking of some while-in-kmdb hackery
[02:36:05] <richlowe> Well, I have ideas.
[02:36:11] <richlowe> they're just not *good* ideas.
[02:36:14] <jmcp> :-)
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[03:08:27] <movement> cla|: I own it
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[03:13:33] <onbot> commit by movement: excuse the test
[03:13:52] <twincest> ooh colours
[03:16:11] <jmcp> very pretty
[03:17:39] <movement> seems to work semi-randomly though
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[03:20:44] <timelyx> movement: can you kill the color codes?
[03:22:33] <movement> why?
[03:22:59] <richlowe> give it a while.
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[03:23:13] * richlowe has reasonable faith the reason the channel used to be +c is no longer an issue.
[03:24:03] <movement> ah... +c ... what was the issue?
[03:24:31] <richlowe> there was a period of frequent technicolor quit messages, away messages, and similar
[03:24:38] <twincest> i find colours in CIA's messages make it much easier to read
[03:25:03] <richlowe> most likely.
[03:25:12] <richlowe> I'm still impressed it deals with noreply@'s correctly.
[03:25:18] <richlowe> movement gets a cookie, or other appropriate baked good.
[03:26:06] <movement> delicious
[03:27:39] <richlowe> movement: and I need to do the page walk to deal with MAP_NORESERVE
[03:27:39] <movement> it'd be much less annoying if Author: were better
[03:27:42] * richlowe is most unhappy
[03:27:57] <movement> hrmph
[03:30:08] <timelyx> colors aren't very friendly to console irc clients
[03:30:20] <twincest> really?  i use a console irc client and i have no problems with them
[03:31:08] <twincest> most of them let you turn colours off if you dont like them
[03:31:17] <twincest> (/set color of $stripcrap() in epic for example)
[03:31:42] <richlowe> movement: I'm not sure why Author: is the way it is.
[03:31:53] <richlowe> movement: or what, if anything, will change when it's no longer bridged.
[03:33:01] <richlowe> currently the notifications assume $commiter is an opensolaris.org username, and translate if so/noreply@ if not.
[03:33:16] <richlowe> I can't think why it couldn't be looked up on the bridge side, and used as the author info on the actual putback.
[03:34:27] <movement> indeed
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[04:47:33] <dclarke> hello
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[04:51:30] <jbk> evening
[04:51:40] * dclarke nods
[04:51:43] <dclarke> evening
[04:52:07] <dclarke> I'm slowly working my way towars getting VMware Server running here
[04:52:19] <dclarke> but .. I have to run it on Linux
[04:55:36] <dclarke> and .. I have a console here at 9600 baud ..
[04:55:47] <dclarke> so .. it will be a long slow process I think
[04:56:08] <twincest> how do you control vmware without a gui?
[04:56:20] <delewis> twincest, it is VMware server
[04:56:23] <twincest> yes
[04:56:26] <delewis> there is a web-based administration interface
[04:56:27] <twincest> my vmware server has a gui :)
[04:56:28] <dclarke> there is a remote management client
[04:56:30] <twincest> oh web based
[04:56:35] <delewis> and there's also a management client
[04:56:36] <twincest> i was hoping for command line
[04:56:39] <delewis> which is similar to VMware workstation
[04:56:48] <delewis> twincest, there are CLI tools
[04:56:48] <jbk> i wish i could avoid tomorrow :)
[04:56:53] <delewis> but they aren't meant to be used as such :-)
[04:57:04] <dclarke> jbk : what the issue with tomorrow ?
[04:57:13] <twincest> del: stop/start/reboot would be enough for most uses
[04:57:26] <jbk> heh.. well let's just say things went to shit over the weekend
[04:57:28] <delewis> twincest,  you can do that, sort of.
[04:57:35] <dclarke> well ... there is a complete API
[04:57:38] <delewis> it's just the userland tools (from what I remember) have really annoying syntax.
[04:57:45] <jbk> and while people were working it, i know i'm going to get sucked into the problem
[04:57:56] <dclarke> perhaps it no more difficult than writing a console control tool for Lotus Domino
[04:58:14] <dclarke> jbk : what broke ?
[04:58:29] <jbk> internal application
[04:58:35] <dclarke> oh
[04:58:41] <dclarke> yeah .. those are the worst
[04:58:47] <dclarke> been there .. done that
[04:58:52] <jbk> oracle is claiming there is a bug with the solaris 10 aio libraries
[04:58:57] <jbk> but dunno if sun concurs with that..
[04:59:04] <jbk> as i've just gotten bits and pieces
[04:59:13] <dclarke> aio .. asynchronout IO ?
[04:59:18] <jbk> yeah
[04:59:21] <dclarke> async IO ?
[04:59:30] <dclarke> been there .. done that
[04:59:33] <dclarke> seen that bug
[04:59:41] <dclarke> I seem to recall a solution also
[04:59:49] <dclarke> what rev of Oracle ?
[04:59:53] <jbk> 9
[05:00:00] <dclarke> okay .. thats good
[05:00:05] <dclarke> 9i .. 9g ?
[05:00:10] <jbk> 9i
[05:00:24] <dclarke> and Solaris 10 update 1 or 2 or GA ?
[05:00:29] <dclarke> patched recently ?
[05:00:30] <jbk> u1
[05:00:49] <jbk> patched using whatever revs are on the may 07 ice cd
[05:00:52] <dclarke> let me have a gander in my email .. this sounds real familiar
[05:01:31] <jbk> heh
[05:01:46] <jbk> i'd hope if it was, that sun would have identified it
[05:01:51] <jbk> but dunno..
[05:02:09] <jbk> i just had a voicemail on my phone (no coverage at my parents house)
[05:02:20] <jbk> so i called my coworker back from the airport and he filled me in
[05:03:41] <jbk> it appears when oracle cores, cpu utilization skyrockets
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[05:03:46] <jbk> which is the big issue
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[05:51:12] <kAv_> http://wiikilledmytv.com/
[05:51:13] <kAv_> hahahaha
[05:55:19] <gdamore> rotfl
[05:56:37] <gdamore> hmm....  i just went out and purchased a new dvd reader, in the hope that it would be able to install S10u2 on my nice shiny new via c7 machine.  unfortunately it just kinda hangs after asking the date and time.  i only have 256MB.  Is that enough to install with?
[05:57:52] <gdamore> after ~2 days trying to get Solaris installed, i'm ready to give up and install Linux just to have _something_ useful running on the system.
[06:00:36] <delewis> 256MB is the minimum, but you should have no problem installing it if that's the case.
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[06:09:04] <Error_404> gdamore: try openbsd
[06:12:33] <gdamore> heh.
[06:13:08] <gdamore> i'm now wondering if the dvd was bad.  unforunately, its kinda hard to debug suninstall. :-(
[06:13:35] <gdamore> especially when running in a text console
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[06:19:10] <gdamore> hmm... this system has a unichrome that uses "shared memory" -- e.g. right now it is configured for 64MB shared memory (shared between the graphics board and the system).  That reduces the available to 191MB.  I guess that might be a problem, then?
[06:19:59] <jmcp> yup
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[06:24:58] <cla|> movement: ok, thanks :)
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[06:41:08] <gdamore> hmmm.... reducing the video shared memory region to 16M (the minimum) seemed to help.  it will be interesting to see if it actually completes the install.  (Its newfs'ing the root disk now)
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[06:49:38] <Error_404> no option to cram more ram in that beast?
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[07:32:24] <Gr|ffous> Who do we hit up about the out of date solaris express links on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/distributions/ ?
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[08:14:20] <richlowe> gdamore: if this is the same issue, I'd wonder why grub wasn't complaining.
[08:14:38] <richlowe> though grub's loading stuff isn't exactly the smartest of code.
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[08:43:40] <boyd> Evening, all
[08:44:06] <Gr|ffous> hi boyd
[08:45:41] <jmcp> hi boyd
[08:45:50] <Tpenta> hi folks
[08:46:08] <boyd> Hey, Gr|ffous, jmcp, Tpenta.
[08:46:17] * boyd is at the airport on his way to Sydney
[08:48:14] <boyd> You're back this fri or someting aren't you jmcp ?
[08:48:35] <jmcp> the flight leaves 9pm on friday
[08:48:48] <jmcp> I'll be back in Aus by about Saturday lunchtime
[08:49:47] * boyd nods
[08:49:52] <boyd> I'm gone by then
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[09:10:44] <[aa]> Moggies
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[09:24:30] <razrX> morning all
[09:25:30] <Error_404> is anyone working on an updated version of solaris systems programming?
[09:25:50] <Error_404> in the same vein as 2nd edition of SI ?
[09:25:55] <Tpenta> I think Rich Teer is a bit busy
[09:26:04] <Tpenta> gawd that book has not been out *that* long
[09:26:08] <jmcp> Error_404: sheeesh! give RichT a break! ... it's only been out for a few months
[09:26:25] <Error_404> jmcp: ?
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[09:26:43] <Error_404> it's been out for a few years
[09:26:58] <Error_404> http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-Systems-Programming-Rich-Teer/dp/0201750392/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/102-3786699-8032108 << that one
[09:27:07] <Error_404> and i wasn't complaining, i was just curious
[09:27:30] <Error_404> systems programming is solairis <= 9
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[09:28:03] <jmcp> I'm pretty darned sure my version is more recent than that
[09:28:04] * jmcp shrugs
[09:28:09] <jmcp> don't have it here to check
[09:28:15] <jmcp> ok, time for me to sodoff
[09:28:16] <jmcp> back later
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[09:51:35] <printk> I just installed SXCR 52, for some reason I can't seem to get the resolver to work.  I have my /etc/resolv.conf setup the same way I've done for years.. for some reason I can't resolv anything.  It is working right now for my OpenBSD and Linux machines so I know my isp nameserver is up.
[09:51:40] <printk> any suggestions?
[09:51:53] <asyd> vi /etc/nsswitch.conf, add dns to hosts: entry
[09:51:56] <printk> and I can connect using IP.. like google etc just can't resolve
[09:51:59] <printk> ahhhhh
[09:53:03] <printk> awsome thanks so much
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[10:06:55] <axisys> hi all..
[10:07:09] <axisys> do u know of a pkg that offeres text2html?
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[10:10:33] <Error_404> vi
[10:11:29] <Doc> echo '<PRE>'; cat $1; echo '</PRE>'
[10:12:34] <trygvis> I wonder if I could put a 120Gb drive in my v100
[10:13:03] <Doc> yes, you can
[10:14:02] <trygvis> without a bios upgrade? I remember I read something that if I wanted to put something bigger than a 80GB drive in it I had to upgrade something
[10:14:23] <twincest> you must upgrade the flux capacitor
[10:14:24] <trygvis> the smallest drive I can find is 250GB ..
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[10:16:01] <Doc> fairly sure the v100 still maxes out at 137Gb
[10:18:39] <trygvis> if I put a 160G drive in it, will it fail or just say it's 137GB big?
[10:19:00] <g4lt-U60> trygvis, you can only use ATA100 drives in the v100/blade100
[10:20:36] <axisys> Doc: echo PRE was a answer to my question i guess?!
[10:20:37] <Tpenta> dennis around?
[10:20:39] <Doc> 160gb will probably show up as a 23gb drive
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[10:21:00] <kiivi> How can I create an ACL that gives all users in a group permissions to do the following things in all directories under /foo/bar 1) create new files, 2) rename existing files, 3) read/list files, 4) only modify/delete those files that are owned by them ?
[10:21:02] <Doc> axisys: apparently
[10:21:06] <sgnut> anyone has installed sun update connection?
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[10:21:10] <axisys> Doc: :P
[10:21:12] <Doc> tpenta: never did get your email...
[10:21:15] <twincest> kiiv: need to specify if you want zfs or ufs acls
[10:21:38] <kiivi> zfs
[10:23:50] <kiivi> few inherited ACLs with granting write permissions to owners and read to the group seem like the way. But the rename seems hard.
[10:23:55] <g4lt-U60> sgnut, for most variants of opensolaris, update connection is about as useless as teats on a boar hog
[10:25:46] <sgnut> g4lt-U60: I know but I have a machine with solaris (not open) :(
[10:26:00] <sgnut> g4lt-U60: and I have some problems to install it
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[10:38:58] <bengtf_> g4lt-U60: really ata100 only ?, I run one ata133 on a blade100, have problems with cabling though when having 2 disks on the same cable
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[10:43:25] <axisys> is there a way to boot w/o any reference to md disks at ok prompt?
[10:43:34] <g4lt-U60> bengtf_, http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/SunBlade100/components.html  RTFM
[10:44:12] <axisys> wisk i had a cdrom at the site
[10:46:12] <bengtf_> g4lt-U60: although the interface is ata100 doesnt require you to buy ata100 disks since ata133 are backwards compatible right ?
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[10:57:16] <axisys> anyone know of a public site where i can upload 10MB file and share w/ few ? i dont have a ftp site
[10:57:44] <g4lt-U60> bengtf_, frankly, I really don't care if you managed to get a frankenstein SAS disk working in there.  the supported disks are ATA100.  use whatever else at your own risk and don't tell n00bs that it's supported unless you want to hold their hands personally the rest of their lives when they fuck it up
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[10:59:19] <dlg> where's the fun in that?
[11:00:33] <sgnut> where the SUNWupdatemgrr should be? I have done a find . -name "SUNWupdatemgrr" on every cd of the solaris and I can't find it
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[11:04:36] <PerterB> bengtf_: ATA133 disks may work, but the size limit still applies
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[11:50:38] <raph_ael> hello
[11:53:41] <dlynes_laptop> bon matin, raph_ael
[11:54:58] <raph_ael> de meme dlynes_laptop :)
[11:57:43] <jmcp> gdaygday
[11:58:34] <Berny> morning jmcp
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[12:05:13] <jmcp> hi berny
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[12:26:26] <axisys> sorry for the repeat question, incase new people signd in, anyone know of a public site where i can upload 10MB file and share w/ few ? i dont have a ftp site
[12:28:12] <kimc> what is it?
[12:28:13] <trygvis> I'd host that from home
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[12:30:35] <axisys> found it.. xdrive.com
[12:32:41] <axisys> free 5GB w/ free autobackup from aol .. not bad
[12:33:43] <sgnut> axisys: why don't u try 127.0.0.1? :P
[12:34:13] <axisys> sorry not allowing any inbound traffic yet..
[12:34:27] <axisys> once i get my wrt54GL may be..
[12:40:14] <kiivi> Why does "chmod A+group:foobar:add_file:allow file" add write_data permission?
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[12:45:41] <kiivi> found the issue (http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6461609)
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[13:31:10] <solarx> is hte chat on?
[13:32:05] <twincest> no.  we're closed
[13:32:46] <jmcp> solarx: question is, do you meet the dress code?
[13:33:09] <solarx> closed?
[13:33:29] * andersmo turns the chat off. Come back tomorrow, everybody, we're closed for today. =)
[13:33:43] <solarx> only for today?
[13:33:46] <solarx> OK
[13:34:17] <andersmo> solarx: In case of any doubt: we're just kidding. =)
[13:34:25] <solarx> ?????
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[13:34:37] <solarx> good joke
[13:34:42] <Berny> .oO(stop kidding the noobs ;-))
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[13:34:58] <jmcp> aww, but sometimes it's fun when we're bored
[13:35:02] <jmcp> ok ... all the time :)
[13:35:14] <solarx> why isn't there any solaris duscussion?
[13:35:22] <Berny> oh well but i can't work while loughing my butt off
[13:35:23] <jmcp> solarx: nobody is asking questions
[13:35:38] <jmcp> solarx: care to ask a question to get us started?
[13:35:42] <solarx> is there any Solaris 10 user?
[13:35:53] <razrX> i'm sure there are lots ;)
[13:35:57] <andersmo> Probably quite a few of them. =)
[13:36:05] <solarx> here now?
[13:36:16] <Berny> hmm
[13:36:19] <jmcp> solarx: care to ask a *specific* question?
[13:36:25] <solarx> OK
[13:36:27] <Berny> not a sol10 user...
[13:36:35] <razrX> Berny: you're out then ;)
[13:36:36] <andersmo> solarx: If you wonder about something, just ask a question. Somebody may be around who knows the answer, or maybe not.
[13:36:47] <razrX> solarx: dont ask to ask, just ask
[13:36:48] <Berny> damn
[13:37:03] <solarx> have you ever met difficulties about printing from S10 to a windows printer?
[13:37:07] <jmcp> yeah, because you're wasting valueable questions
[13:37:07] <andersmo> solarx: And even if nobody who knows the answer is around, someone else may find it with google. =)
[13:37:10] <Berny> someone knocked on my door should i open?
[13:37:13] <jmcp> solarx: define "windows printer"
[13:37:32] <solarx> a printer connected to a Windows PC
[13:37:40] <solarx> and shared over LAN
[13:37:53] <Berny> shouldn't that work via cups/samba?
[13:38:29] <solarx> my samba works fine
[13:38:31] <Berny> otherwise connect the printer to the solaris box and share it from there :-)
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[13:38:57] <solarx> the printer is in my boss's office
[13:39:04] <solarx> so can't moe it
[13:39:26] <Berny> switch office? :>
[13:39:31] <Cyrille> become boss?
[13:39:32] <solarx> there's a link in opensolaris forum that show how to print via samba
[13:39:53] <solarx> using a "weird" modified-uri
[13:40:12] <jmcp> solarx: if it's a printers shared out from a windows box, check out the samba config stuff at www.samba.org
[13:40:16] <Berny> define weird
[13:40:28] <jmcp> solarx: an ipp:// uri?
[13:40:40] <jmcp> that's not weird, that's The Way Of The Future(tm)
[13:41:05] <solarx> it uses : lpadmin -p name -v smb://server/share -m modified-uri
[13:41:18] * jmcp shrugs
[13:41:22] <jmcp> it's not weird to me
[13:41:32] <solarx> you must copy this modifief-uri from opensolaris
[13:41:53] <solarx> and put it to /etc/lp/
[13:42:56] <solarx> I followed the instructions, but nothing is printed when I request a print job
[13:44:14] <jmcp> did you enable the printer queue?
[13:44:19] <jmcp> with /usr/bin/enable nameofqueue
[13:44:22] <solarx> yes, quite
[13:44:29] <solarx> enable and accept
[13:44:35] <jmcp> so what does "lpstat -t" show you for that queue?
[13:45:35] <solarx> I tried something else : I booted a Linux live CD and then I set up the printer (windows printer via samba). And it worked, I was able to print from the live CD
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[13:46:15] <jmcp> did you, or did you not, try "lpstat -t" ?
[13:46:51] <solarx> I tried lpstat -t (every second)
[13:47:40] <solarx> the output was, printer name "..." idle, accepting job, but I don't see the smb://server/share line
[13:49:00] <jmcp> why did you expect to see that line?
[13:49:42] <solarx> because it's the device uri  (it should show where the printer is connected)
[13:50:09] <jmcp> and just how much do you understand about the operation of Solaris' lpstat command?
[13:50:55] <solarx> I just launched lpstat (with and without -t) to see printer list
[13:51:09] <solarx> and alos lpq -P printer
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[13:51:44] <jmcp> so why do you assume a certain behaviour? on what do you base that assumption?
[13:52:44] <solarx> when I type lpstat -t on linux distros, it shows the connection mode : ipp, or lpd, or smb
[13:53:01] <leal> I have created a zfs pool (test), and two zfs filesystems (home, and user)... they are mounte on /export/home/user
[13:53:36] <leal> the passwd is: /export/home/user... but the user cannot use his home.
[13:53:40] <Berny> solarx: that line is not in the standard solaris lpstat
[13:53:51] <Berny> solarx: iirc it's a feature of the cups lpstat
[13:54:00] <leal> i have shared the zfs fs (sharenfs=on).
[13:54:02] <jmcp> solarx: so you're making an assumption about Solaris' lpstat behaviour based on linux ... not such a good idea, really
[13:54:11] <jmcp> solarx: howabout you go and rtfm on lpstat
[13:54:14] <leal> what is missing?
[13:55:09] <leal> jmcp: i have sent to you a mail about the SAN boot. it's working now...
[13:55:14] <jmcp> leal: cool!
[13:55:23] <jmcp> leal: thankyou for following up, I appreciate it.
[13:55:54] <leal> jmcp: the problem was the HBA bios...
[13:56:00] <jmcp> ah ....
[13:56:02] * jmcp reads
[13:56:05] <solarx> What I don't understand is that I followed each instructions on opensolaris forum but I can't still manage to access the printer
[13:56:18] <jmcp> leal: although, you did change both the bios and the card.
[13:56:35] <Cyrille> well opensolaris != solaris 10, so there might be differences in the expected behaviour of certain parts.
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[13:56:37] <jmcp> solarx: are you sure that the printer is shared from windows, and that you have appropriate permissions to useit?
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[13:57:15] <solarx> quite, I can easily print to it when I'm under Windows
[13:57:22] <leal> jmcp: ok, i did that.. but i did tell you on the "first" email, that with the firmware of the first card (2200), i could not select the lun..
[13:57:37] * jmcp nods
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[13:58:03] <jmcp> leal: : yeah, it's just that when somebody tells me that solved problem by changing two things.... I wonder which it really was :)
[13:58:07] <leal> jmcp: and with the new card (23xx), the bios was not working at all... without even a "ctrl Q"...
[13:58:24] <jmcp> leal: in your case, I think perhaps it really was the combination. At least you had the chance to change cards
[13:59:30] <leal> jmcp: So, i updated the bios of the 23xx card, because it was installed in a computer with floppy...
[13:59:38] <jmcp> ah
[13:59:56] <jmcp> I really hate that we still have to do bios and card bios updates via such ooooooold technology
[14:00:08] <Berny> bugger
[14:00:21] <leal> jmcp: i'm almost sure, that if i update the bios of the "old" card, that will boot too. understand?
[14:00:32] <Berny> something seems to have shredded my font caches...
[14:00:37] <leal> jmcp: i agree.
[14:00:43] <jmcp> I do understand ... but now I'm not sure that your card might handle the change
[14:00:50] <jmcp> Still, if you can get it working, that would be great
[14:00:57] <jmcp> leal: is it a Sun-branded card?
[14:01:24] <leal> jmcp: is a qlogic 2340 and 2200.
[14:01:53] <solarx> I think it's a problem concerning filtering formats
[14:02:05] <leal> jmcp: i did a cdrom image from the floppy, but did not work because the software needs "write" permissions...
[14:02:07] <jmcp> leal: neither of the cards have Sun stickers or part numbers on them?
[14:02:10] <jmcp> :(
[14:02:15] <Berny> how do i regenerate the font cache again?
[14:02:26] <leal> jmcp: no.
[14:03:14] <leal> jmcp: the bios update is for 2200 and 2340, maybe i test it on the old one. will work. :))
[14:04:10] <leal> jmcp: but i will make a bootable CD too. I do not trust these cards...
[14:04:16] * jmcp nods
[14:04:19] <jmcp> a wise move
[14:04:53] <solarx> jcmp: the print server doesn't probably support postscrit
[14:05:08] <leal> jmcp: was a "bad" experience... imagine, occurs a hardware problem, i need pickup a new, card and pray to work...:)
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[14:05:28] <jmcp> ha!
[14:05:29] <jmcp> :)
[14:05:46] <jmcp> solarx: well if your windows printer doesn't understand .ps then you'll need an appropriate filter
[14:05:56] <jmcp> and probably a PPD file to go with it
[14:06:07] <solarx> the printer is a LaserJet 1000
[14:06:22] <solarx> and it's listed on Solaris printer admin
[14:06:23] <andersmo> solarx: have you seen this document? http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/techtips/lpd_print_solaris.html
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[14:06:59] <solarx> I also installed Unix print service on the Windows PC
[14:08:12] <solarx> when typing lpstat -t, it was written : WIndows XP LPD server
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[14:11:08] <solarx> And I coulndn' print through the LPD printer
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[14:15:11] <solarx>
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[14:18:36] <solarx> this printing problem leads me to headache
[14:20:34] <quasi> that's good - maybe you'll save some trees that way ;)
[14:20:53] <solarx> :)
[14:20:58] <solarx> (:
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[14:22:37] <solarx> for Christmas, I wish to receive as gift the printer working fine from Solris
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[14:25:40] <Berny> argh
[14:25:49] <solarx> why argh
[14:25:58] <Berny> why do acroread and mozilla crash after i installed ntop from blastwave?
[14:26:45] <solarx> maybe dependances problems or overwriting
[14:27:39] <Doc> karma
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[14:29:12] <Berny> hmm, it seems to be fontconfig related
[14:33:39] <solarx> I'm fed up with this network printer : I'm gonna hang myself
[14:34:54] <jmcp> solarx: there are more important things in life
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[14:35:21] <solarx> like ?
[14:35:30] <solarx> printers?
[14:35:49] <jmcp> solarx: like wine, women and song, for a start
[14:36:09] <jmcp> solarx: was that your email to printing-discuss that I just saw?
[14:36:17] <solarx> ah wine !! I git it installed on my solaris 10
[14:36:28] <jmcp> I thinking of a more liquid variety :)
[14:36:38] <jmcp> except for the 2003 Bordeaux vintage
[14:37:06] <solarx> yes, that's it, I've just posted it
[14:38:06] <solarx> there are liquid varieties inside women
[14:38:30] <jmcp> solarx: you should provide a followup where you copy your /etc/printers.conf and a description of what you've done on the windows box to enable shared printing
[14:38:39] <jmcp> but certainly, printing-discuss is the place to post the question
[14:39:41] <solarx> just a litl problem : now I'm under Linux, i will have to reboot under S10 in order to provide you the /etc/printers.conf
[14:41:11] <Joe0> I have a problem installing SXCR 51a on sparc ultra 10. After the first CD is installed, I think the computer should reboot from the hard drive and continue the installation. How do I boot from the hard drive?
[14:41:32] <Doc> where does it try and boot from?
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[14:41:58] <Joe0> It doesn't.
[14:42:25] <Joe0> i just get the ok prompt.
[14:42:41] <Doc> try "boot disk"
[14:42:51] <Doc> or "setenv auto-boot? true"  if you want it to boot automatically
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[14:43:25] <Joe0> I have tried with boot disk. doesn't work.
[14:43:55] <Doc> are you going to make us guess what it says when you try, or are you going to tell us?
[14:44:08] <Doc> i'm thinking guessing could be fun, but possibly much slower
[14:44:09] <jmcp> Doc: nownow, be nice
[14:44:37] <Joe0> Ok, but it will take a while. Hold on.
[14:44:53] <jmcp> Doc: I still haven't gotten to 1000 photos on my 400d yet
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[14:45:00] <jmcp> and I've been trying really hard, too
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[14:46:28] <Doc> blah.. i took 600 in 2 hours recently - you need to pick up the pace :)
[14:47:28] <jmcp> Doc: clearly I've been focussing too much on work lately
[14:47:33] <Joe0> The file just loaded does not appear to be executable.
[14:47:38] <jmcp> Doc: question is, though, how many of those were publishable?
[14:47:53] <jmcp> Joe0: exactly what args did you provide to the boot command?
[14:48:02] <Joe0> boot disk
[14:48:06] <jmcp> duh
[14:48:12] <Doc> jmcp: 404 of them (although only as 1 image)...
[14:48:28] <jmcp> Doc: clearly I need to practice more
[14:48:29] <Doc> what about "boot" ?
[14:48:48] <Doc> jmcp: that was my machu picchu 1500 megapixel one, so i'm not sure that it actually counts
[14:48:57] <jmcp> I tried a bit of point-n-shoot without framing etc this morning/evening on the way to/from work
[14:49:04] <jmcp> yeah, i don't think that counts at all
[14:49:15] <jmcp> Joe0: what does the "disk" alias translate to?
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[14:50:24] <Doc> i did take about 400 in a day though at one point a few weeks ago - i think that's my non-pano record
[14:50:27] <Joe0> Doc: Same thing: The file just loaded does not appear to be executable.
[14:50:42] <Doc> how many disks does the system have?
[14:51:14] <Joe0> jmcp: what do u mean?
[14:51:30] <jmcp> Joe0: "disk" is an alias for a device path.
[14:51:33] <Joe0> Doc: 2 hard disks, 1 cdrom
[14:51:43] <jmcp> Doc: I can't recall the syntax - is it "show-devs" or "devaliases" ?
[14:51:46] <Doc> internal, ide disks?
[14:51:52] <Doc> try "boot disk1"
[14:52:22] <Doc> "disk" on an U10 points to the first IDE disk. it's a built-in alias, and whilst you can over-ride it, it's very uncommon
[14:52:23] <jmcp> Doc: what I've found in the last few days is that the overhead colour has been *really* washed out, so a lot of my colours aren't balanced quite right
[14:52:29] <Joe0> Yes, 2 seagate 17.2 GB IDE
[14:52:38] <jmcp> Joe0: and to some extent not recommended either
[14:52:47] <Doc> actually, it's probably more likely "boot disk2"... just try both
[14:53:33] <axisys> how do i find out what kind of scsi card i have in my e450?
[14:53:42] <trygvis> prtconf -v
[14:53:57] <axisys> prtconf | grep glm gives -> 'pci1000,f' + 'glm' + 'pciclass,001000'
[14:54:06] <jmcp> axisys: walk the device tree in mdb -k :)
[14:54:13] <jmcp> axisys: that could be the onboard instance
[14:54:18] <axisys> prtdiag -v | grep pciclass gives -> pciclass,001000                   Symbios,53C875
[14:54:26] <jmcp> axisys: prtdiag -v will show you the plugin cards
[14:54:36] <jmcp> s/could/is/
[14:55:26] <axisys> jmcp: is it Symbios,53C875?
[14:55:33] <Doc> you'll probably need to look at the back of the system, at least to tell if it's a SE or DIFF card
[14:55:38] <jmcp> axisys: yes, that's a glm instance
[14:55:55] <jmcp> axisys: are you asking about a pci card or the onboard interface?
[14:56:18] <axisys> jmcp: hmm.. so much to learn before asking the right question :P
[14:56:23] <jmcp> axisys: :)
[14:56:28] <jmcp> axisys: so which is it?
[14:56:31] <axisys> i need to replace the scsi card
[14:56:37] <Doc> bedtime...
[14:56:46] <jmcp> Doc: I bet your pager goes off within 15 minutes
[14:57:02] <jmcp> .... said in the nicest possible way .....
[14:57:04] <jmcp> :-D
[14:57:09] <axisys> but in the sunsolve page i see so many SCSI cards
[14:57:27] <axisys> nothing says Symbios,53C875
[14:57:42] <jmcp> axisys: what is the problem that you are trying to resolve?
[14:58:30] <axisys> jmcp: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/Xj7FDE76.html
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[14:58:45] <axisys> sun suggested to replace the scsi card
[14:58:48] * jmcp looks
[14:59:03] <axisys> scsi adapter in PCI slot 10
[14:59:34] <axisys> this is what sun said
[14:59:36] <axisys> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/qMBIzd49.html
[14:59:39] <jmcp> axisys: what else was suggested? what have you done already?
[15:00:08] <axisys> i put  the glm patch in the past
[15:00:10] <jmcp> what other analysis has been done?
[15:00:42] <axisys> jmcp: none other than the glm patch and still glm timeout error
[15:01:00] <jmcp> and the disks in question are internal to your e450's disk cage, correct?
[15:01:07] <axisys> correct
[15:01:30] <axisys> take it back
[15:01:39] <axisys> external
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[15:01:52] <Joe0> boot disk1  Bad magic number in disk label.  Can't open disk label package.  Can't open boot device.
[15:02:35] <jmcp> axisys: ok, so for an external connection, have you changed the cable and terminator?
[15:02:48] <jmcp> Joe0: you seem to be missing the point just a little bit
[15:03:00] <jmcp> Joe0: there is a *device path* which is printed ... what is that device path?
[15:03:22] <axisys> jmcp: i think we did that in the past
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[15:03:44] <jmcp> axisys: how many back-and-forth iterations have you had for this problem?
[15:03:45] <axisys> jmcp: i have to dig thru for that.. but i think we went thru that
[15:03:50] <jmcp> ok
[15:03:59] <jmcp> then replacing the card is quite possibly the right way to go
[15:04:10] <axisys> jmcp: i think since aug if my memory serves right :-)
[15:04:18] <jmcp> ugggh
[15:04:34] <axisys> now we have find out what is the card's part number
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[15:05:14] <axisys> pci slot 10 says this
[15:05:15] <axisys> SYS   PCI    33    10   pciclass,001000                   Symbios,53C875
[15:05:18] <Joe2> Sorry, I was disconnected.
[15:05:34] <axisys> i need to find how to map that to a sun part number
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[15:05:42] <axisys> i need help w/ that
[15:06:03] <Joe2> Doc: u said i missed the point?
[15:06:16] <jmcp> axisys: do you have access to the back of the machine?
[15:06:22] <jmcp> Joe2: *I* said you had missed the point
[15:06:43] <jmcp> Joe2: what is the device path which is printed when you try to boot from "disk" or "disk1" or "disk2" ?
[15:06:43] <axisys> jmcp: no. its at a remote location
[15:06:54] <jmcp> axisys: :(
[15:07:02] <jmcp> axisys: what devices do you have attached to this card?
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[15:07:37] <Berny> cheeri calum
[15:07:38] <Joe2> jmcp: Ok, what should I do?
[15:08:06] <jmcp> oh, hang on ... if you run "prtpicl -v " you might see a "fru" number for that device entry, something like 375-0005/375-0006
[15:08:07] <Berny> calumb: how much do you know about fontconfig and co?
[15:08:10] <axisys> jmcp: this is what format says http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/vzk7sH57.html
[15:08:17] <jmcp> Joe2: try "boot disk -v"
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[15:08:41] * jmcp suspects that calumb will be wise and deny all knowledge :)
[15:08:54] <jmcp> axisys: what about tape drives?
[15:09:01] <Berny> jmcp: shush ;-)
[15:09:17] <jmcp> axisys: you've got it attached to a multipack?
[15:09:34] <jmcp> axisys: a multipack would imply 375-0005.
[15:09:47] <jmcp> axisys: or multiple unipacks
[15:09:55] <jmcp> Berny: muahahahaha
[15:10:23] <Berny> grrr
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[15:12:40] <axisys> jmcp: please dont scream but i think all 12 disks are internal on c0, c2 and c3 controller
[15:12:51] <axisys> jmcp: :-)
[15:12:52] <Berny> the first annoyed users start banging on my door :-\
[15:13:21] <jmcp> axisys: that's fine, it's a normal-ish config for the e450 which can have up to iirc 20 internal disks
[15:13:44] <jmcp> Berny: bang back .....
[15:13:58] <axisys> jmcp: 20 it is.. just checked w/ sunsolve
[15:14:24] <Joe2> jmcp: boot device: /pci@1f,0/pci@1,1/ide@3/disk0,0  File and args: -v  The file...
[15:14:36] <axisys> jmcp: One, three, or five 40-MB/sec, UltraSCSI-3 buses for internal disks
[15:14:43] <axisys> per sunsolve
[15:14:44] <jmcp> Joe2: ok, *now* we have some facts to work on
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[15:14:57] <jmcp> axisys: yes, I know them well
[15:15:10] <solarx> jcmp : I'm back again
[15:15:29] <jmcp> axisys: depends on the number of cards that you want to plug in. so you want 1..enough 375-0005 for this best
[15:15:32] <jmcp> beast
[15:15:35] <jmcp> solarx: gee, took your time!
[15:16:33] <solarx> this is my /etc/print.conf :
[15:17:03] <timeless> is solaris express community edition b53 supposed to come out later?
[15:17:31] <axisys> jmcp: i think i have only one scsi adapter according to prtdiag -v
[15:18:08] <jmcp> axisys: pastebin your entire prtdiag -v output
[15:19:22] <axisys> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/HXc9aa81.html
[15:19:44] * jmcp looks
[15:20:04] <solarx> I will send the printer in iraq to undergo some bullets
[15:20:22] <jmcp> axisys: you've got an onboard one as well, ie on the motherboard
[15:20:45] <Joe2> jmcp: I think Solaris is on the primary master. Solaris tried to do some eeprom stuff, but I think it failed.
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[15:23:09] <jmcp> Joe2: you think.... do you know or are you guessing? This does make a difference you knoe
[15:23:10] <jmcp> know
[15:23:26] <jmcp> and which slice did you install / on ? slice 0 or another slice?
[15:26:28] <Joe2> I KNOW nothing about Sparc. I have just a few days of experience with sparc. Slice 0 is /boot. Slice 1 is swap. Slice 2 is overlap. Slice 3 is /. Slice 4 is /export/home.
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[15:28:48] <jmcp> no, slice 0 is *not* /boot.   /boot is an x86-ism which pre-dates s10 update 1.
[15:29:03] <jmcp> and apart from slice 2, you can assign the slices however you want
[15:29:15] <jmcp> so when you installed Solaris, which slice did you choose for / ?
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[15:31:13] <Joe2> As I said I think slice 3 is /.
[15:31:58] <jmcp> so you want to do something like this:          boot  /pci@1f,0/pci@1,1/ide@3/disk0,0:c
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[15:34:06] <jmcp> and on that note, time for sleep
[15:34:07] <jmcp> good nite!
[15:34:09] <leal> i have a zfs filesytem on /export/home... and sharenfs "on"...
[15:34:12] * jmcp sleeps
[15:34:17] <Berny> night jmcp
[15:34:24] <leal> why i can not use my home?
[15:34:28] <leal> ERR: cannot create.
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[15:35:59] <leal> any tips??
[15:37:19] <AbeFroman>   audio810#0 |    190230 10.2
[15:37:22] <AbeFroman> ugh
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[15:38:22] <Joe2> jmcp: Can't open boot device.
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[15:43:54] <Joe7> jmcp: Sorry, I was disconnected again. Did I miss something?
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[15:50:51] <razrX> leal: what is it you're trying to achieve exactly?
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[15:53:26] <Joe7> jmcp: are u still there?
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[15:54:18] <leal> razrX: just use my home. :)
[15:55:09] <Berny> * jmcp sleeps
[15:56:18] <razrX> leal: so you created a storage pool which you want mounted on /home or something?
[15:56:57] <leal> razrX: yeap. (/mypool/home), mounted on /export/home
[15:57:19] <leal> inside there is another filesystem /mypool/home/user
[15:57:30] <leal> and the user home directory is: /export/home/user
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[15:58:08] <leal> but the user cannot create files (cannot create error).
[15:58:59] <razrX> if the user tries to log in, does he end up in his homedirectory or doesn't that even work?
[15:59:40] <leal> that works.
[15:59:58] <Berny> chown user /mypool/home/user
[16:00:03] <leal> oh, i did not change the owner..
[16:00:10] <Berny> :>
[16:00:41] <leal> i see that know... but that is not "automounter" task?
[16:01:01] <Berny> noe
[16:01:13] <Berny> admin task when creating a users home
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[16:03:21] <leal> how can i see if the automounter is working? i mean, the filesystem is already mounted, because is the same machine...
[16:03:31] <leal> there is a way to debug that?
[16:04:42] <Berny> type mount and see if your fs turns up in the place you want it to
[16:05:24] <leal> Berny: but it is already mounted.
[16:06:06] <Berny> under /export/home yes
[16:06:23] <Berny> but if you use the automounter for your homes ist should turn up under /home
[16:06:58] <leal> Berny: /home is empty.
[16:07:15] <razrX> normally, /home is under the automounter's control so user directories are automounted there. a quick `df -h` will show you that /export/home/foo is mounted under /home/foo
[16:07:40] <leal> ok, so the passwd should be /home/user ?
[16:07:52] <razrX> what do you mean with the passwd?
[16:08:00] <leal> sorry, /etc/passwd.
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[16:09:15] <razrX> yes, the entry in /etc/passwd for a user normally would be /home/foo if that directory is under the automounters control
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[16:09:48] <razrX> and the corresponding entry for that particular user would be found in /etc/auto_home
[16:10:22] <leal> one entry for user?
[16:10:27] <razrX> example: foo localhost:/export/home/&
[16:10:34] <razrX> where foo being the username
[16:10:50] <leal> and "&" ?
[16:11:26] <Stric> is a &
[16:11:45] <leal> Stric: great. :)
[16:12:08] <leal> what does that mean? is a wildcard?
[16:12:30] <Stric> * localhost:/export/home/&     will for instance transform 'blah' into 'blah localhost:/export/home/blah'
[16:12:40] <Stric> & means the matching token
[16:13:01] <leal> Stric: perfect.
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[16:15:32] <leal> Stric: auto_home is * localhost:/export/home/&.. just after "+auto_home"
[16:15:33] <razrX> leal: in any case, with the autofs service instance enabled and online (svcs autofs will verify that) you can't put the backing store for a ZFS pool in an automounted directory and have it come up at boot time 'cuz the automounter doesn't start until *after* the "zfs mount" command runs (on a Solaris 10 6/06 system anyway but I don't think that will be different on a nevada box)
[16:16:40] <leal> so, i will need user UFS for home?
[16:17:04] <Stric> it's a classic chicken&egg problem.. for now: don't use files in automounted directories as zfs vdevs
[16:18:02] <leal> are you telling me that i cant use home directories on ZFS and automounter??
[16:18:22] <leal> in the same box?
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[16:23:54] <Stric> leal: you can.. maybe I was just confused about what razrX said..
[16:24:19] <razrX> you can but not in combination with the automounter ... it's one or the other
[16:25:22] <Stric> leal: what's the "disk" for your zfs home pool? is it a regular disk/slice or is it a file somewhere?
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[16:33:26] <razrX> leal: if it's a couple of files you used to create your storagepool from than you *must* ensure they are out the the automounters way
[16:33:37] <razrX> anyway, i'm off
[16:33:42] <razrX> l8r gents
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[16:59:58] <leal> razrX: ok, i have one pool (two discs) in raid0
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[17:00:12] <leal> razrX: the pool is mypool
[17:00:35] <leal> razrx: that pool is mounted on /export/home
[17:01:03] <leal> razrx: there is a user that has home is /home/user
[17:01:41] <leal> in auto_home i have the configuration: * localhost:/export/home/&
[17:01:55] <leal> but it is not working. :)
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[17:03:49] <Joe7> Which file format does a floppy in solaris use? Is it the same for x86 and sparc?
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[17:04:16] <leal> ok, it's working...
[17:04:28] <leal> i just restart the autofs. :))
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[17:17:57] <sommerfeld> Joe7: you can put any filesystem which will fit on a floppy.
[17:19:33] <timeless> ntfs can be put on a floppy
[17:19:38] <timeless> but most rational people use FAT :)
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[17:20:09] <delewis> throwing a journalized filesystem on a floppy sounds somewhat silly. :-)
[17:20:28] * timeless wonders if zfs fits on a floppy
[17:20:29] <sommerfeld> you can also put ufs on a floppy
[17:20:48] <delewis> sommerfeld: that would be a bad idea, as well, given UFS is endian-dependent.
[17:21:32] <sommerfeld> I said "can", not "should"
[17:38:44] * gdamore has put ufs on a floppy before. :-)
[17:40:12] <gdamore> btw, hi *. :-)
[17:40:54] <timeless> hrm, zfs list is slow if it hasn't been used in a while :)
[17:41:07] <quasi> gdamore: any progress on the jetway board?
[17:41:20] <gdamore> yes, a bit.
[17:41:47] <gdamore> booting from an IDE dvd seems to work okay.  but my install is getting flumoxed probably due to insufficient RAM
[17:42:03] <gdamore> i need to go buy a bigger stick.  (manager put a 256MB instead of 1G)
[17:42:26] <gdamore> interestingly enough, snv52 now boots once i use an IDE drive.
[17:42:32] <quasi> should still work with the commandline install, no?
[17:42:52] <gdamore> well, it gets to the point of copying files onto the destination image, and then "hangs".
[17:42:59] <quasi> so just not net booting?
[17:42:59] <gdamore> (after ~16GB)
[17:43:07] <gdamore> err... 16MB
[17:43:45] <quasi> you didn't netboot because you were missing the driver, right?
[17:43:48] <gdamore> also, it gets further when i reduce the "shared video memory" (IGP graphics chip, ugh) to 16MB, which is the minimum
[17:43:51] <gdamore> right.
[17:44:06] <gdamore> well, its actually an rge device, but it has a "new" vendor and device id
[17:44:18] <quasi> have you considered hacking the install image?
[17:44:23] <gdamore> i considered it.
[17:44:58] <gdamore> but my install server is a SPARC, and the tools are therefore not installed.  (my other x86 box is running 10 03/05, which also lacks the tools)
[17:45:14] <quasi> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/device_driver_install.html
[17:45:22] <gdamore> so, it was looking like a chicken and egg problem, and ultimately easier to just buy a $29 IDE DVD drive
[17:46:18] <quasi> true ;)
[17:46:34] <gdamore> yes, but the "root_archive" tool mentioned there requires your install server be running S10 06/06 on x86. (or newer)
[17:46:45] <gdamore> i.e. i don't have handy access to the root_archive tool.
[17:47:01] <quasi> ah, bummer
[17:47:25] <gdamore> it would be _nice_ if this tool was available on SPARC as well, since some of us use SPARC install servers. :-)
[17:47:51] <gdamore> maybe i should file an RFE for it.
[17:48:08] <quasi> gdamore: I see it on an older machine as well
[17:48:28] <gdamore> not on my 10 03/05 machine.
[17:48:45] <gdamore> (which is an Ultra 20 opteron setup)
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[17:49:05] <Joe7> I would like to update the Openboot in my Sparc ultra 10. I don't have an OS there yet. So can I use a floppy with EXT2 and update from the floppy?
[17:49:55] <gdamore> not sure about U10, but you might be able to TFTP an image.  that's how we update openboot on Tadpole systems.
[17:50:06] <quasi> gdamore: Solaris 10 3/05 s10_74L2a X86 here - has /boot/solaris/bin/root_archive
[17:50:11] <gdamore> (i.e. you may be able to update openboot from itself)
[17:50:49] <gdamore> hmm.. my system lacks /boot/solaris/bin altogether.  maybe you have a patch installed that i lack?
[17:51:06] <quasi> I'm pretty much up to date
[17:51:14] <gdamore> (note that my 03/05 system runs without grub)
[17:51:30] <quasi> part of SUNWcakr
[17:51:58] <quasi> right - that's probably it - I had that fight a while back
[17:51:59] <timeless> hrm, using zones+fs mounts makes life easier
[17:52:12] <gdamore> ah.
[17:52:22] <Joe7> gdamore: what is tftp?
[17:52:31] <gdamore> trivial file transfer protocol.
[17:52:36] <gdamore> its how sparc systems netboot
[17:54:06] <gdamore> i'd have to refresh my memory how sun systems name the file that you drop in /tftpboot on a server to load via tftp.
[17:55:06] <Joe7> gdamore: Can't it be done from the ok prompt with a floppy?
[17:55:24] <gdamore> probably.  boot floppy?  I've never done it before
[17:56:23] <Joe7> gdamore: Must it be bootable? why?
[17:56:49] <gdamore> i imagine that is how the flash update works, as a bootable kernel image.
[17:56:59] * timeless frowns
[17:57:06] <gdamore> but i'm not sure, so check the patch README.  its been ages since i've done this on a U10
[17:57:09] <timeless> so, i have two zones, global and nexenta
[17:57:16] <timeless> they have different usernumbers
[17:57:33] <timeless> and i want the two to talk to zfs about the same usernumber
[17:57:46] <timeless> but i don't want to break nexenta's usernumbering
[17:57:56] <timeless> is it possible for me to have the zone remap the numbers? :)
[17:58:00] <dwc-> I've got a bunch of what looks like MACADDRESS and MACADDRESS.SUN4U symlinks
[17:59:21] <dwc-> or actually I guess they're IPs, not MACs
[17:59:24] <dwc-> in hex
[17:59:27] * dwc- yawns
[17:59:50] * dwc- wanders off in search of caffeine
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[18:00:16] <gdamore> dwc-: that sounds right.
[18:09:01] <timeless> so, is there any way for me to get zones to remap usernumbers per filesystem? :(
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[18:14:23] <timeless> hrm, if i use nfs instead of lofs, would i get what i want?
[18:17:37] <richlowe> if I'm understanding the question correctly, I don't think so.
[18:18:11] <timeless> i just want a user in a zone to be able to write files w/ a certain user/group number pair as seen by the global zone
[18:18:39] * timeless doesn't want to have to hack /etc/passwd for zones and redo permissions for all things in the zones just to make them agree
[18:18:43] <timeless> it seems to hacky
[18:19:53] <timeless> s/to/too/
[18:19:54] <tsoome> use nfsv4 mounts...
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[18:23:31] <whaq> evening all
[18:24:19] <whaq> I've a question, is it safe (or even recommended) to change root's home directory from /? (to /root)
[18:24:28] <gdamore> sure.
[18:24:34] <timeless> it's against solaris style :(
[18:24:58] <timeless> technically it's a bad idea to put root's home dir into anything that might not be available if the system boots into singleusermode
[18:25:04] <gdamore> but i don't think any software relies on the location of ~root
[18:25:17] <gdamore> yes, but /root on the / filesystem should be fine
[18:25:20] <Auralis>  but /root is on / so no harm
[18:25:25] <whaq> hmmm okay
[18:25:38] <timeless> personally i asked here and was given a polite scolding
[18:25:51] <gdamore> where is "here"?
[18:25:52] <whaq> I wanted to customize root's environment a little. Put .profile etc.. it's a mess if you do that in /
[18:25:53] <timeless> i'd probably create a toor instead
[18:26:02] <Auralis> i always relocat roots home to /root
[18:26:03] <timeless> here=#opensolaris
[18:26:07] <whaq> timeless ouch. thanks for being civil ;)
[18:26:08] <gdamore> ah.
[18:26:20] <Auralis> its jsut cleaner and people that bitch to me about it can honestly shut up
[18:26:37] <gdamore> well you probably shouldn't be using root for work anyway. :-)  i always just install sudo.
[18:26:39] <whaq> how's toor?
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[18:26:52] <timeless> i certainly don't like that if i accidentally run a gnome app it dumps turds all over /
[18:26:53] <gdamore> toor == alternate uid 0 account
[18:26:58] <timeless> yeah
[18:27:06] <timeless> doing it for toor makes a lot of sense imo
[18:27:11] <timeless> it doesn't violate any style
[18:27:22] <whaq> is toor'supported' in solaris?
[18:27:37] <whaq> cool. how is that created? make another user w/ uid 0?
[18:27:41] <gdamore> yes.
[18:27:52] <timeless> note that i haven't done it, i probably will though
[18:28:00] * timeless is more of a user than an admin
[18:28:01] <whaq> alrighty, gonan try that out in a zones first
[18:28:29] <gdamore> toor is IMO not a good idea though, because some software (stupidly) assumes that there is only one account with a given uid.  so it may lookup home etc. for the uid 0 account and get "root"'s values instead of "toor"'s values.
[18:28:32] <whaq> sort of a ying-yang thing eh? u gotta be a good user to be a good admin, and vice versa
[18:28:38] <whaq> =)
[18:29:07] <whaq> right
[18:29:09] <whaq> i'll take sudo
[18:29:13] <gdamore> i think /root is a better idea than "toor".
[18:29:21] <gdamore> and sudo is an even better idea. :-)
[18:29:24] <timeless> gdamore: have you filed bugs about that?
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[18:29:50] <gdamore> timeless: no.  i don't use it, so i've not seen the problem since before i _could_ file bugs.
[18:30:27] <timeless> i guess i like filing bugs, so i'm slightly more likely to add a toor just to complain :)
[18:30:46] * timeless tosses it onto the end of the ever growing to use to bug list
[18:31:00] <gdamore> heh.
[18:31:21] <gdamore> i've filed enough other bugs of my own lately.  most of them have me named as the person who will fix them. :-/
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[18:33:03] <timeless> that's no fun
[18:33:11] <timeless> much more fun to file bugs against dozens of engineers and spec writers
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[18:33:21] <timeless> especially when they deserve it for writing buggy apps/specs
[18:34:24] <richlowe> gdamore: the bug stuff won't allow external people to be set as RE, so you can relax a little :)
[18:34:50] <timeless> RE?\
[18:35:06] <richlowe> Responsible Engineer
[18:35:22] <gdamore> yes, but i'm still listed _somewhere_, even if it isn't in bugster. :-)
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[18:37:57] <richlowe> submitter email goes into hook6, "submitter wants to work on", is just copied into Description, I think. :)
[18:38:33] <richlowe> I think that makes us Irresponsible Engineers ;)
[18:40:36] * timeless tries to figure out how to change a fs's special
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[18:41:05] <Kronuz> hello
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[18:41:27] <timeless> yum
[18:41:31] * timeless likes zfs
[18:41:34] * timeless likes zonecfg
[18:41:42] <Kronuz> hey, how do you install/deinstall "packages" in Solaris 10?
[18:42:15] <Kronuz> like, for instance, I just installed the "core"... how can I install the ssh support?
[18:42:37] <Kronuz> I've also found the daemons are not all in /etc/init.d
[18:43:00] <Kronuz> (last time I installed Solaris, there was no /etc/init.d/sshd)
[18:43:05] * timeless would google for pkgadd pkgdel
[18:43:16] <Kronuz> pkgadd...
[18:43:17] <Kronuz> hmm
[18:43:25] <Kronuz> I had to issue a svcadm or something
[18:43:32] <Kronuz> (for the sshd)
[18:43:34] <alanc> init.d is mostly gone in Solaris 10 and later - replaced by SMF - use svcadm to enable/disable services
[18:43:40] <timeless> yeah, svcadm is where most things live these days
[18:43:52] <Kronuz> oh, that's what I figured
[18:43:55] <tsoome> Kronuz: read docs.sun.com sysadmin manuals
[18:43:58] <timeless> swift% svcs ssh
[18:43:59] <timeless> STATE          STIME    FMRI
[18:43:59] <timeless> online         Nov_05   svc:/network/ssh:default
[18:44:31] <timeless> much more friendly than throwing files all over the place
[18:44:48] <Kronuz> is svcs and svcadm a Solaris exlusive feature or is it something linux and the BSD family will or are adopting, do you know?
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[18:45:01] <richlowe> Solaris specific, currently.
[18:45:02] <timeless> it's open source ;-)
[18:45:05] <Kronuz> :)
[18:45:15] <Kronuz> I suppose the svc is from "service"
[18:45:16] <Kronuz> ?
[18:45:16] <richlowe> various linux distributions are looking at fairly similar things, but I'm not sure if that includes similar administration.
[18:45:19] <sommerfeld> yes
[18:45:21] * timeless can only hope the rest of the world will see the light
[18:45:25] <sommerfeld> svc -> service
[18:45:35] <Kronuz> yeah, like windows!
[18:45:43] <Kronuz> or not... hehe :P
[18:45:45] <richlowe> it's also worth noting that SMF in its entirety is fairly invasive, so it wouldn't just be a straight simple port.
[18:45:57] <alanc> everyone seems to be inventing their own equivalent these days - MacOS X & Ubuntu have similar replacements for init.d as well
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[18:46:12] <Kronuz> well, I guess it's about time
[18:46:19] <whaq> say... is brandz gonna be in S10U3?
[18:46:32] <alanc> no
[18:46:33] <Kronuz> the ugly thing is the transition
[18:46:50] <Kronuz> like for instance, there still are things in /etc/init.d
[18:46:51] <whaq> ah..
[18:47:18] <Kronuz> <.<
[18:47:19] <Kronuz> >.>
[18:47:24] <richlowe> Some of those are for compatibility purposes (they just use svcadm), some actually haven't been switched over yet.
[18:47:25] <Kronuz> I think I didn't install the man
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[18:47:48] <richlowe> and you probably didn't, such is the nature of using the smaller package clusters.
[18:47:54] <richlowe> they're not entirely sensible in their construction :)
[18:48:11] <whaq> heh..
[18:48:15] <Kronuz> richlowe: so most likely I can manage all the services by using svcadm ?
[18:48:20] <whaq> zfs root = aye/nay?
[18:48:54] <quasi> whaq: it is a maybe ;)
[18:48:57] <Kronuz> also, what's with the arrows not working in the console :P
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[18:49:13] <whaq> quasi, aww..
[18:49:19] <whaq> it could be such a nice thing :>
[18:49:30] <timeless> kornuz: shell compatibility?: try zsh )
[18:49:46] <Kronuz> "not found"
[18:49:47] <Kronuz> :P
[18:49:50] <quasi> whaq: it is doable on x86 - but not easy
[18:50:03] <Kronuz> timeless: I don't think I have any shell installed
[18:50:14] <Kronuz> timeless: I used the "core" instalation mode (or something)
[18:50:25] <timeless> hrm, i never pay attn to my install mode
[18:50:33] <Kronuz> I wanted to start learning from the ground up
[18:50:41] <whaq> quasi, i saw one blog about it.. it needs some modified boot scripts eh
[18:50:55] <Kronuz> (I think it's always better as you know what to expect from any system)
[18:51:05] <whaq> my system automatically installs 'core' for me whenever something f's up..
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[18:51:17] <Kronuz> but the man not being there that's bad :P
[18:51:52] <quasi> whaq: there's a shortcut script somewhere as well
[18:52:26] <Kronuz> dtrace is part of the core :)
[18:52:37] <whaq> quasi, that thing scares me. I don't know how things will work out during an upgrade if that mod is in place.
[18:52:40] <quasi> whaq: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/timf?entry=first_attempt_at_automating_a
[18:53:28] <whaq> quasi thx.... wow, way back in april
[18:53:58] <Kronuz> hmm.. I didn't know /bin was /usr/bin
[18:54:06] <quasi> whaq: yeah, not much have happened since then
[18:55:35] <whaq> awwaww..
[18:56:03] <Kronuz> no, but really... I didn't install the man... how can I install it now? I have the Solaris DVD
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[19:00:17] <quasi> Kronuz: cd to the dir that has all the packages and pkgadd -d . SUNWman
[19:00:47] <Kronuz> quasi: let me try :)
[19:03:45] <Kronuz> <.<
[19:04:08] <Kronuz> what's the /dev for the DVD ? (usually)?
[19:04:24] <Kronuz> also, there's no /etc/fstab
[19:04:25] <Kronuz> >.>
[19:04:58] <sommerfeld> /etc/vfstab
[19:06:48] <delewis> fstab died a long time ago :-)
[19:06:57] <Kronuz> O_O
[19:07:02] <Kronuz> it did?
[19:07:05] <Kronuz> hmm
[19:07:08] <richlowe> on Solaris, yes.
[19:07:13] * tsoome misses the old times
[19:07:15] <richlowe> well, with Solaris, actually.
[19:07:16] <delewis> Kronuz: SunOS used /etc/fstab
[19:07:21] <delewis> Solaris uses /etc/vfstab
[19:07:28] <Kronuz> but why?
[19:07:36] <Kronuz> just 'cause it's different format?
[19:07:42] <tsoome> when people did learn elementar things before started to ask questions...
[19:08:00] <richlowe> "Because"
[19:08:04] <Kronuz> hehe
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[19:11:02] <gdamore> probably leftover from SVR4 days. :-)
[19:11:54] <Kronuz> this may seem like a really stupid question... but regularly what's the device name for the cdrom? (on machines with only one DVD and a scsi hard drive)
[19:12:09] <gdamore> is it x86 or sparc?
[19:12:12] <Kronuz> x86
[19:12:15] <Kronuz> x64
[19:12:17] <timeless> kronuz: why? :)
[19:12:27] <timeless> normally you can ask dvd burnrs to write to the virtual device instead
[19:12:47] <Kronuz> 'cause there's a bunch of cxtyd0pz files
[19:12:51] <timeless> certainly that's the only use i would have had for it :)
[19:13:05] <Kronuz> and my command history isn't working... (neither my arrows nor backspace)
[19:13:11] <gdamore> if you ever have to manually mount one, it is useful to know.
[19:13:39] <gdamore> look in /vol/dev/dsk though.  that might be more helpful -- it is dynamically maintained by vold
[19:13:45] <Kronuz> (and it'd be crazy to try them all)
[19:13:51] * timeless is spoiled by automounters
[19:14:12] * gdamore has had to cope with broken automounters before.
[19:14:13] <Kronuz> gdamore: there's no vol
[19:14:26] <Kronuz> I have a just "core" install
[19:14:37] <gdamore> weird.  maybe this is the result of vold going away in nevada.
[19:15:10] <Kronuz> yep, no vold in svcs
[19:15:11] <gdamore> why did you just install core?  its not terribly useful unless you at least do minimal or end-user
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[19:15:36] <Kronuz> well, I didn't know that :P
[19:15:37] <delewis> anything but a Full+OEM install tends to be fairly limiting.
[19:15:45] <Kronuz> I usually do the core on the BSD systems
[19:15:51] <delewis> Kronuz: if you didn't know, you should not have modified the default
[19:15:56] <Kronuz> and then I start adding stuff from there
[19:15:57] <gdamore> not true.  developer should be enough for most people.
[19:16:00] <delewis> Kronuz: Solaris != BSD
[19:16:11] <bougie> hello :)
[19:16:26] <Kronuz> delewis: I also installed the full version someplace else
[19:16:29] <timeless> swift% ls -l /vol/dev/aliases/cdrom0
[19:16:29] <timeless> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          35 Nov 27 20:01 /vol/dev/aliases/cdrom0 -> /vol/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0/ubuntu6.06i386
[19:16:29] <delewis> gdamore: Sun does Full+OEM installs on all consulting gigs.
[19:16:57] <gdamore> that's just because _one_ time somewhere they had a problem, and so they got lazy and just installed everything.
[19:17:06] <timeless> heh
[19:17:09] <timeless> seems reasonable to me
[19:17:23] <Kronuz> delewis: but that's exactly the issue, I want to know how to go from the "core" up :)
[19:17:29] <delewis> Kronuz: you do not
[19:17:32] <delewis> that is is pointless
[19:17:35] <delewis> cast that thought out of your mind
[19:17:43] <delewis> Solaris is meant to be usable
[19:17:48] <delewis> not light and useless.
[19:17:51] <gdamore> i usually do a Full Install, but that's because I'm lazy too.  Developer install has everything you probably want, though.
[19:18:15] <Kronuz> really? what if you just want to have apache running, for instance
[19:18:21] <Kronuz> that's why I started with the core
[19:18:22] <gdamore> I only run into problems when someone installs end-user and you need some developer tool (contents of /usr/ccs/bin).
[19:18:32] <delewis> Kronuz: are you 100% that system will always, just run Apache?
[19:18:38] <Kronuz> yep
[19:18:43] <Kronuz> or a database
[19:18:49] <Kronuz> (for production environments)
[19:18:58] <gdamore> never going to want to login and have some tool like /usr/ccs/bin/id ?
[19:18:59] <delewis> Kronuz: you will need X11 libs, Java, etc. for various installers, most likely.
[19:19:17] <Kronuz> nah, I won't need X11
[19:19:22] <Kronuz> nor java and stuff
[19:19:32] <gdamore> heh.  the _database_ will probably tell you to install developer cluster in its install notes. :-)
[19:19:35] <delewis> no Oracle for you.
[19:19:42] <gdamore> _system_ tools need java.
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[19:20:13] <FlaTLyneR> oh guys
[19:20:17] <FlaTLyneR> hows it going
[19:20:36] <FlaTLyneR> I'm having the crappiest day ever
[19:20:51] <FlaTLyneR> Anyone know how to recover a lost partition table?
[19:21:57] <gdamore> yer screwed, unless you remember the old geometry and can recreate it by hand.
[19:22:13] <FlaTLyneR> argh
[19:22:20] <FlaTLyneR> I don;t have the old geometry
[19:22:21] <gdamore> PCs don't backup the partition table anywhere else.
[19:22:43] <FlaTLyneR> Its not a pC though
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[19:22:44] <gdamore> (unlike the disk label on BSD or SPARC, which does have redundant copies)
[19:22:56] <FlaTLyneR> Its Solaris on Intel
[19:22:59] <FlaTLyneR> 10
[19:23:14] <gdamore> so its still a PC.  It  just isn't running Microsoft.
[19:23:19] <FlaTLyneR> haha
[19:23:20] <FlaTLyneR> I guess
[19:23:26] <Kronuz> quasi: thanks, I'm finally installing the man package :)
[19:23:49] <gdamore> the partition table is still laid out in the same manner.  (though Solaris takes one partition and "paritions" (err... slices) it further
[19:23:54] <Kronuz> now, where do one get the patches for Solaris?
[19:23:57] <FlaTLyneR> So, back at work i'm running TestDisk, it 'apparently' can recover lost tables
[19:24:09] <gdamore> sunsolve.sun.com
[19:24:39] <FlaTLyneR> gdamore : is there anywhere i might find the old geometry logged?
[19:25:05] <gdamore> not that i'm aware of.  unless you stored the output from fdisk or somesuch.
[19:25:13] <FlaTLyneR> Thought as much
[19:25:19] <Kronuz> gdamore: thanks... how are patches numbered?
[19:25:19] <FlaTLyneR> I didn;t do it
[19:25:26] <FlaTLyneR> Should have screen-shotted
[19:25:29] <gdamore> or if you knew that you used the whole disk with a single patch, that would be useful.
[19:25:30] <Kronuz> gdamore: also, are they incremental?
[19:25:37] <gdamore> Kronuz: no they aren't.
[19:26:07] <FlaTLyneR> Have you ever heard of TestDisk?
[19:26:10] <FlaTLyneR> Maybe it will work
[19:26:14] <gdamore> the numbers are "semirandom" (well assigned increasing, but not necessarily released in order) as XXXXXX-YY  (where XXXXXX is a number and YY is a revision)
[19:26:17] <FlaTLyneR> I'm going to have to try anyway
[19:27:01] <Kronuz> I see three for Solaris 10... I guess: (SunOS 5.10: 119683 and two others)
[19:27:02] <gdamore> Kronuz: the main thing is that patches on Solaris don't work like other OS'.  The XXXXXX corresponds to certain files.  And the list of files contained in that patch number can  change over time.
[19:27:19] <gdamore> There are a lot more than that.  Get the recommended patch cluster.
[19:27:51] <dwc-> are you recovering the partition table, or the slices?
[19:28:22] <gdamore> he said partition table, so I assumed... :-)
[19:28:24] <FlaTLyneR> dwc- : just the table
[19:28:29] <FlaTLyneR> Slices are good
[19:28:32] <dwc-> I've had great luck with gpart
[19:28:39] <dwc-> the time I accidentally nuked my partition table :)
[19:28:41] <dwc-> http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/
[19:28:42] <FlaTLyneR> nothing written to them since the table was wiped
[19:28:50] <FlaTLyneR> I nuked it with fdisk by accident
[19:28:57] <FlaTLyneR> So now i have a whole new partition table
[19:28:59] <dwc-> sounds like what I did, heh
[19:29:07] <FlaTLyneR> some sort of "default"
[19:29:52] <FlaTLyneR> dwc- : gpart
[19:29:55] <gdamore> Kronuz: those three patches are just the "latest" patches.  Not necessarily the full set
[19:29:57] <FlaTLyneR> that looks good
[19:30:04] <FlaTLyneR> might give that a go
[19:30:13] <FlaTLyneR> If its got a x86 binary available
[19:30:14] <Kronuz> gdamore: yeah, I think I found a full list
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[19:30:15] <dwc-> I haven't used testdisk, but from what I've heard, it should do something similar
[19:30:39] <Kronuz> gdamore: SUNWman didn't install the man binary .... hmm
[19:30:48] <dwc-> conveniently, they have a statically linked linux and fbsd binary on their page -- no solaris though
[19:31:13] <gdamore> You need SUNWdoc for that.
[19:31:26] <Kronuz> gdamore: oh
[19:31:36] <gdamore> This is why you should _never_ do a core install.
[19:31:40] <Kronuz> gdamore: is there a list that says what each package contains?
[19:31:51] <gdamore> it is really only meant for ISVs building "custom embedded solutions". :-)
[19:31:52] <Kronuz> (I'm sure there must be)
[19:32:32] <gdamore> not sure.  could do pkginfo -l or pkgchk -l   on the package directories on the install media.
[19:32:35] <FlaTLyneR> gdamore : Never do a core install? I'm installing later, SunOS 10 06/06, what should i go with?
[19:32:49] <FlaTLyneR> package i mean, full?
[19:32:50] <gdamore> developer cluster or full install
[19:32:55] <FlaTLyneR> okey doke
[19:32:55] <gdamore> yes.
[19:33:33] <Kronuz> hehe
[19:33:34] <Kronuz> <.<
[19:33:35] <Kronuz> >.>
[19:33:53] <Kronuz> core is good
[19:34:00] <Kronuz> once you know a few things, I suppose
[19:34:05] <gdamore> one of the main differences between developer and full is the presence of a few optionals like freeware shells (/bin/tcsh, etc.)
[19:34:14] <Kronuz> but this is my first day in any Solaris system
[19:34:37] <gdamore> core != good.  core will leave you missing some essential tools for a "usable" system.
[19:34:42] <gdamore> for example, want to read man pages?
[19:34:44] <FlaTLyneR> Thanks ' gdamore
[19:34:50] <FlaTLyneR> k Guys
[19:34:54] <FlaTLyneR> I'll be back later
[19:34:58] <FlaTLyneR> Will try to recover this disk!
[19:34:59] <gdamore> or what about look at network statistics? kstat requires perl. :-)
[19:35:04] <gdamore> np.
[19:35:23] <Kronuz> gdamore: yep, but once you know how to install that that's it!
[19:35:24] <Kronuz> ;)
[19:35:36] <Kronuz> perl is part of the core :)
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[19:35:53] <gdamore> really?  that's a bit of a surprise, but good news i suppose
[19:35:56] <Kronuz> yep :)
[19:36:00] <Kronuz> it's there
[19:36:07] <Kronuz> man it's not found but perl is
[19:36:18] <Kronuz> lol
[19:36:37] <Kronuz> I'm telling you, that's why I like to start from the core/kernel up
[19:36:56] <gdamore> why?  so you know what is part of core or not?
[19:37:06] <Kronuz> yep, that's part of it
[19:37:18] <gdamore> i've never, ever needed to care about that in my entire Solaris career (now about a decade long)
[19:37:45] <Kronuz> I guess it's just another way of learning
[19:37:57] <Kronuz> I always also like to build stuff myself
[19:38:09] <gdamore> and every  time I've ever tried to install something less than the developer cluster, I've wound up cussing when I need to use some 3rd party software that assumes something like m4 or id is around.
[19:38:30] <Kronuz> yeah, that's always a nightmare in any system
[19:38:52] <Kronuz> but once you get to know what ytou have and what not, it's better (at least it feels better to me)
[19:39:10] <gdamore> i think you still need the developer cluster if you want to hack on sendmail configs, for example (again, due to m4 dependency)
[19:39:31] <Kronuz> or you can just build m4
[19:40:01] <gdamore> that way lies madness. :-)  i suppose you like building your own gnome installs too? :-)
[19:40:13] <Kronuz> nay, I don't use X
[19:40:26] <Kronuz> starting with just the linux kernel is more difficult
[19:40:32] <Kronuz> FreeBSD is not as bad
[19:40:46] <gdamore> heh.  the netbsd system works well for what you're talking about. :-)
[19:40:51] <Kronuz> I'll see how it goes for me with Solaris :)
[19:41:10] <cmihai> pkgsrc doesn't really work that well on Solaris.
[19:41:23] <cmihai> Well, it works fine, but a lot of stuff is broken
[19:41:24] <Kronuz> mostly I've used FreeBSD, in the BSD family
[19:41:30] <Kronuz> (I'm still trying to forget linux)
[19:41:54] <gdamore> i still don't understand the appeal of pkgsrc on solaris, myself.  pkg-get (blastwave) works reasonably well to my mind
[19:42:12] <Kronuz> pkgsrc ?
[19:42:28] <gdamore> netbsd's package management system.  someone ported it to Solaris.
[19:42:29] <cmihai> pkgsrc is NetBSD's port system. Automatic build system.
[19:42:36] <Kronuz> oh, really?
[19:42:43] <cmihai> gdamore: the NetBSD guys did. It's an "official" platform for quite some time
[19:42:59] <gdamore> yeah, i know that.  that's what I mean about "someone" though :-)
[19:43:03] <cmihai> Well, pkgsrc works on FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, Linux, etc.
[19:43:22] <cmihai> Even used a central pkgsrc build system + distcc for all of the above (when I had way too much time on my hands)
[19:44:03] <gdamore> maybe if i still had to deal with hetegenous environments i would care.  my only netbsd boxes are tiny embedded machines, and everything else is Solaris. :-)
[19:44:11] <Kronuz> yeah, I know, I love how the BSD family handles packages :P
[19:44:21] <cmihai> I'm pretty much considering using it on PHUX
[19:44:25] <gdamore> (barring one Linux system that I am using for embedded development)
[19:44:26] <cmihai> But... phux ;\
[19:44:45] <Kronuz> yuck!, loonix
[19:44:54] <cmihai> God, I wish Solaris would run on PA-RISC :)
[19:45:08] <gdamore> port it.  :-)  yeah, right....
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[19:45:16] <Kronuz> lol
[19:45:24] <Kronuz> why not? it's open source!
[19:45:30] <gdamore> on the other hand, as I keep saying, I intend to port Solaris to MIPS one day soon.
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[19:46:03] <cmihai> Wouldn't mind an IBM RS/6000 port either
[19:46:08] <gdamore> and then there is that guy that is working on the s/390 port.  that is freaking bizarro
[19:46:11] <cmihai> One that actually works.
[19:46:21] <cmihai> gdamore: oh yeah, I think I've seen that, heh
[19:46:24] <Kronuz> the future is amd64
[19:46:25] <Kronuz> lol
[19:46:32] <cmihai> Well,... yeah.
[19:46:37] <gdamore> no, there are other relevant cpus.
[19:46:53] <cmihai> SPARC... hm.. that's all I can think of
[19:46:56] <cmihai> Don't say Itanic :))
[19:46:59] <gdamore> MIPS is still very relevant in the embedded space, and they have some really cool massively SMP stuff...
[19:47:10] <gdamore> ARM too, but I don't have any ARM hardware.
[19:47:16] <cmihai> Alpha is pretty dead..
[19:47:24] <Kronuz> well, I saw lots of benchmarks for the UltraSPARC T1
[19:47:27] <gdamore> I have about 4 systems with "modern" MIPS cpus in them at the moment
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[19:47:46] <cmihai> 8 EV7 1.3Ghz, and I still say it's a dead platform.
[19:47:49] <Kronuz> and it seems Opteron was faster (with enough cores)
[19:47:52] <gdamore> T1 and T2 have breathed new life into the SPARC ISA.
[19:47:52] <cmihai> Tru64.. pff.
[19:47:55] * timeless has arm hardware
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[19:48:31] * timeless can't remember the size someone reduced solaris to
[19:48:36] <gdamore> I am not aware of any 64-bit ISA for ARM.
[19:48:48] <cmihai> timeless: a few MB iirc
[19:48:50] <timeless> is that a requirement for solaris?
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[19:49:02] <Kronuz> anyway, who maintains the ports (pkgsrc)?
[19:49:08] <cmihai> NetBSD project.
[19:49:10] <gdamore> no.  but it is nice to know that it is around when starting a port to a new ISA. :-)  future stuff...
[19:49:16] <cmihai> See netbsd.org, pkgsrc.se
[19:49:32] <Kronuz> cmihai: but the ports, not pkgsrc
[19:49:33] * gdamore is a former NetBSD committer.
[19:49:45] <Kronuz> the ports tree
[19:49:58] <gdamore> pkgsrc _is_ the NetBSD ports tree.
[19:50:01] <cmihai> pkgsrc is crossplatform. You just grab the official release, and -wip.
[19:50:08] <cmihai> There's a bunch of commiters/maintainers.
[19:50:15] <cmihai> They're listed somewhere in the ports / netbsd.org.
[19:50:27] <Kronuz> oh, I didn't know that it also had support for Solaris
[19:50:33] <cmihai> Well, it does.
[19:50:35] <Kronuz> :)
[19:50:40] <cmihai> Works on pretty much anything.
[19:50:56] <cmihai> Works even on phux :)
[19:51:01] <gdamore> (or so the claim goes... :-)
[19:51:04] <cmihai> MacOS... etc.
[19:51:14] * richlowe just got the notification for a CR filed 5 days ago.
[19:51:19] <cmihai> It's DragonFly's official ports also.
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[19:51:27] <richlowe> aside from everything else, the notification method needs drastic change.
[19:51:54] <gdamore> richlowe: yes, but we keep bitchin' about it.  I don't expect rapid change.
[19:52:00] <timeless> richlowe: you mean the 5day latency?
[19:52:06] <richlowe> gdamore: hence the "aside from everything else"
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[19:52:21] <richlowe> gdamore: everything else just sucks, waiting (in theory) 5 days for an ID is unnacceptably bad.
[19:52:46] <gdamore> agreed.  the whole vetting process for bugs needs to fixed.
[19:53:04] <gdamore> its insane that Linda has to process all community bug submissions manually.
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[19:56:32] <Kronuz> gdamore: yep, pkgsrc is a NetBSD thing
[19:56:39] <Kronuz> FreeBSD doesn't use it
[19:56:44] <quasi> gdamore: sounds like a fulltime job
[19:57:01] <timeless> richlowe: it could be worse
[19:57:10] <timeless> it's taking us about a day for any bugmail we generate
[19:57:27] <Kronuz> I wonder if the pkgsrc for certain apps have the improvements done by the Solaris team
[19:57:35] <timeless> our bugmail comes from outside our firewall, and our mailservers are having "issues" w/ spam :(
[19:57:46] <Kronuz> I believe some apps have been tweaked to improve performance in solaris, right?
[19:57:47] <timeless> at least you're only having problems w/ CRs and not everything
[19:57:54] <Kronuz> (like apache or pgsql)
[19:58:24] <Kronuz> so I wonder if those modifications are there in the source code from pkgsrc...
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[20:02:58] <sickness> evening all :)
[20:03:13] <Kronuz> 'lo
[20:04:19] <Kronuz> hey, what compiler does Solaris use?
[20:04:26] <Kronuz> WorkShop Compiler?
[20:04:59] <Kronuz> is it at least better than gcc (I've read gcc sucks when compared to other compilers)
[20:04:59] <cmihai> Sun Studio 10, Sun Studio 11, gcc. Pick one. I think there's an intel there also.
[20:05:27] <gdamore> Studio 11 works best for SPARC.  On intel, I'm not sure whether gcc or studio produce better code
[20:05:30] <cmihai> But you need Sun Studio 10 to build OpenSolaris < 40something, 11 works for 40something+, gcc sort of works etc... whatever.
[20:06:19] <cmihai> Personally, I'd stick to Sun Studio 11. It's there, it's free, it's Sun, it works. For OSS software, gcc might be a better option. Though pkgsrc for example works with both.
[20:06:21] <gdamore> for building Solaris itself, I recommend Studio before gcc.
[20:06:34] <cmihai> Yep. Recent builds of OpenSolaris (should) work with Sun Studio 11.
[20:06:55] <Auralis> i would use Studio when ever possible, the resulting bnaries are that much faster it not funny
[20:06:58] <Kronuz> it's called Studio 'cause it has a nice IDE>
[20:06:59] <Kronuz> ?
[20:07:06] <Auralis> yes
[20:07:09] <cmihai> Well, yeah.
[20:07:12] <gdamore> Auralis: on x86 as well?
[20:07:13] <Kronuz> :)
[20:07:13] <cmihai> NetBeans-ish thing.
[20:07:17] <Auralis> gdamore: yes
[20:07:18] <cmihai> Works on Loonix too.
[20:07:33] <Kronuz> I suppose you can have the compiler without the IDE
[20:07:39] <gdamore> impressive.  i thought gcc4 generated pretty good x86 code as it was.
[20:07:54] <gdamore> Kronuz: yes, you can.  i never use the IDE.  I use the compiler every day.
[20:07:55] <Auralis> Kronuz: yes, you don't have to install the IDE at all
[20:07:56] <cmihai> Well, Sun Studio an Intel are better.
[20:08:19] <cmihai> As in, might generate faster/lighter binaries.
[20:08:30] <Kronuz> I bet gcc4 improved the quality, but intel is always far better
[20:08:33] <cmihai> Though it really does depend on what you're compiling. Some might not compile.
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[20:08:48] <gdamore> will the Intel compiler run under Solaris?
[20:09:04] <cmihai> Don't really care. We have Sun Studio and it's free.
[20:09:21] <Kronuz> yeah, intel's expensive :P
[20:09:33] <cmihai> Yeah, I just got an email from intel
[20:09:42] <cmihai> Telling me they're upping the prices by 30% on ICC
[20:09:47] <cmihai> Bastards :)
[20:09:55] <Kronuz> but it's better than gcc... tho I cant' really say anything about Sun Studio
[20:10:14] <Kronuz> (havent used it... at all)
[20:10:33] <cmihai> fbackup(1030): warnings encountered during backup :((. Damn, I just hate this when it happes ;\
[20:10:44] <cmihai> You always get to find out 400GB later :P
[20:10:48] * gdamore still wishes Sun would opensource (CDDL or GPL) studio.
[20:10:54] <cmihai> Might happen.
[20:10:56] <cmihai> Just you wait.,
[20:11:13] <cmihai> But for the love of Sun, _not_ GPL :)
[20:11:29] <Kronuz> yeah! not GPL!!!
[20:11:37] <gdamore> who cares.  i don't think anyone is going to produce commercial products derived from studio 11.
[20:11:38] <cmihai> They did opensource Solaris and Java (work in progress). So just you wait :)
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[20:11:55] <cmihai> gdamore: well, it did wonders for Solaris.
[20:11:56] <gdamore> this is different than Solaris, where it could be used to host embedded projects.
[20:12:12] <Kronuz> under what license is Java?
[20:12:13] <gdamore> (i meant, why not GPL)
[20:12:15] <cmihai> Open Sourceing that is. Really.
[20:12:27] <gdamore> java was recently GPLd, IIRC
[20:12:30] <cmihai> Kronuz: well, they're CDDL-ing it or something. Look @ sun.com, it's on the front page
[20:12:33] <Kronuz> GPL :S
[20:12:34] <cmihai> Oh
[20:12:42] <cmihai> LGPL or what
[20:12:48] <cmihai> Erm... what's that called
[20:12:51] <cmihai> Damn GPL-ware :)
[20:13:05] <Kronuz> hehe
[20:13:31] <cmihai> Great. Now the moral dilema.
[20:13:32] <Kronuz> I just believe GPL is like a cancer... it grows and it infects everything it touches
[20:13:37] <gdamore> i heard rumours that sun might relicense Solaris under GPL.  now _that_ would be a Bad Idea.
[20:13:45] <cmihai> Leave the backup as it is and hope it was a minor error...
[20:14:04] <cmihai> Try to restore it an fsck everything up :). Or loose another 3 hours doing it all over again ;\
[20:14:33] <Kronuz> gdamore: it would not be as bad if they also license it under other "better" license as well
[20:14:44] <gdamore> personally, i can't stand GPL, but for some projects i don't care too much.
[20:14:52] <Kronuz> me neither
[20:15:03] <Kronuz> but if it has both licenses it's alright
[20:15:25] <Kronuz> as long as you can move away from GPL that's fine
[20:15:29] <gdamore> heh.  most of the stuff I've released to FOSS lately has been under a BSD license. :-)
[20:15:43] <Kronuz> BSD is nice :)
[20:15:56] <Auralis> Greedy Peoples License
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[20:16:04] <reflect> hey.. I'm thinking about creating a HCL tool to gather better information about what's supported and what's not..  however, I need some help from people with different architectures
[20:16:05] <Kronuz> lol
[20:16:21] <cmihai> MIT license rules :)
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[20:16:37] <Kronuz> cmihai: did you study there by any chance?
[20:16:46] <cmihai> No, not really.
[20:16:53] <Kronuz> :P
[20:16:54] <reflect> I'm sort of scripting in the dark here, as I haven't got access to a solaris system, but if you can, please download http://www.acggbg.org/~reflect/opensolaris/getinfo.sh and send me the resulting tar file when done
[20:16:59] <cmihai> Did you study at Berkely?
[20:17:00] <cmihai> :)
[20:17:07] <Kronuz> <.<
[20:17:09] <cmihai> Kronuz: it's a simplified BSD license really
[20:17:09] <Kronuz> >.>
[20:17:20] <Kronuz> oh, it's good then
[20:17:21] <Kronuz> :)
[20:17:27] <gdamore> BSD 3-clause and 2-clause are simple too.
[20:17:28] <Kronuz> GPL is evil
[20:17:29] <cmihai> Kronuz: yeah, it's the preffered license for new stuff in OpenBSD
[20:17:30] <Kronuz> lol
[20:18:04] <cmihai> www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php
[20:18:38] <cmihai> Aka X11 license :)
[20:18:55] <Kronuz> well, I guess GPL is not as bad... it has certainly helped the open source world... but I just which it wasn't so bitchy
[20:19:21] <cmihai> Bah, this whole GPLv3 and FSF and RMS stuff is way too political for me.
[20:19:24] <reflect> if you're worried, look the script over first.. it's just doing showrev, uname, psrinfo, prtdiag, prtconf..
[20:19:30] <cmihai> Besides, everybody knows they're loonies :)
[20:19:44] <gdamore> GPLv3 is for political activism.  damned liberals... :-)
[20:19:45] <Kronuz> ROTFL
[20:20:54] <Kronuz> that's why they called it loonix in the first place... or was it something else they initially called it?
[20:20:58] <gdamore> there are some people who use GPLv2 who think sanely.  Linus is one of them.
[20:21:19] <cmihai> Kronuz: WeStoleMinixAndSCOcode? :)
[20:21:23] <gdamore> then there are people like Donald Becker, who are complete software socialists that think nobody should be able to make money selling software.
[20:21:24] <cmihai> </flame> :)
[20:21:39] <cmihai> gdamore: right, I call them crackpots :)
[20:21:52] <Kronuz> lol
[20:22:22] * gdamore makes his living writing software that other people sell... :-)
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[20:22:53] * gdamore is also a heavy FOSS contributor.
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[20:23:31] <gdamore> (heavy as in weighing over 200 lbs. :-)
[20:24:12] <Kronuz> I guess that's the exuse "some" use once they've done major fuckup in their business decitions ... like those guys who invented the spreadsheet... or Donald Becker
[20:24:32] <Kronuz> (they become software socialists)
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[20:25:53] <Kronuz> ... or not (that's just a theory)
[20:25:56] <Kronuz> ^_^
[20:29:19] <reflect> so.. anyone have the time to help me gather some information for a "hardware compatibility list"-tool?
[20:29:26] <Kronuz> what are the packages that end with a capital S?
[20:29:33] <timeless> http://www.drizzle.com/~lettvin/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html
[20:29:36] <cmihai> reflect: there's one on sun.com
[20:29:42] <cmihai> reflect: it's a Java app.
[20:29:44] <gdamore> reflect: maybe later... not right now.
[20:29:55] <cmihai> Works on every OS. It tells you what will and won't run Solaris.
[20:29:58] <cmihai> Worked fine here.
[20:30:01] <Kronuz> like SUNWgccS or SUN2bashS
[20:30:08] <Kronuz> SUNWbashS *
[20:30:09] <Auralis> Kronuz: source pkgs
[20:30:12] <Kronuz> oh
[20:30:19] <reflect> cmihai: yeah, well have you ever really tried to look through their HCL?
[20:30:20] <Kronuz> I thought that was it :P
[20:30:25] <cmihai> I didn't really follow your chat to know what you want though.
[20:30:38] <Kronuz> "Windows Shutdown crapfest"
[20:30:39] <Kronuz> lol
[20:30:43] <cmihai> reflect: I just run their app, and it tells me everything I need to know.
[20:30:50] <cmihai> And it works pretty well here.
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[20:31:05] <reflect> cmihai: the app might, their webfrontend isn't very good.
[20:32:02] <Kronuz> How many Microsofties does it take to implement the Off menu?
[20:32:05] <Kronuz> lol
[20:32:17] <cmihai> Works here. Usually everything apart from the sound cards (works with OSS from opensound or OpenSource drivers) is supported :)
[20:32:28] <cmihai> Unless you have really shitty hardware
[20:33:25] <reflect> cmihai: eh? I'm not talking about hardware support. I'm talking about how the HCL is presented, how easy it is to search for hardware etc
[20:33:32] <cmihai> Oh, right. I've just read what you were trying to do.
[20:33:42] <cmihai> To implement a HCL thing.
[20:33:46] <cmihai> Well, it's already there.
[20:33:53] <cmihai> It's been done, and it works.
[20:35:31] <reflect> ok..  I find it unneccecarily hard to find what I'm looking for with that one
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[20:37:04] <leal> What do you think about XDMCP? i'm use to admin linux server with just ssh... solaris 10 has graphic login by default (nevada dont)..
[20:37:25] <leal> Do you use the graphical facility, or no?
[20:38:18] <Auralis> well, sinc ei use solaris as desktop i do
[20:39:06] <cmihai> leal: you don't need to install that you know.
[20:39:15] <cmihai> dtlogin or gdm or whatever you have installed.
[20:45:03] <leal> cmihai: i see... i just want to know if you use it in servers. understand?
[20:45:09] <Kronuz> why are there two sshd: SUNWsshdr and SUNWsshdu ?
[20:45:22] <Kronuz> I understand one is root and the other user
[20:45:23] <richlowe> one's the root package, one's the user package.
[20:45:25] <Kronuz> but why?
[20:45:31] <leal> i just want to see your opinion about the security concerns, and the facility itself.
[20:45:38] <cmihai> leal: not on my servers.
[20:45:38] <reflect> privilege separation, perhaps
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[20:45:51] <cmihai> leal: they're headless anyway.
[20:46:01] <richlowe> Kronuz: diskless stuff, zones, and I believe general shared /usr stuff.
[20:46:02] <Kronuz> reflect: but which one should one install? both? (if I want to run the server)
[20:46:10] <cmihai> Meh, not that big a security issue I guess.
[20:46:34] <reflect> Kronuz: go for both.. it could be that one is for sshd and the other is ssh
[20:46:40] <reflect> you most likely want both anyway
[20:46:41] <richlowe> No, both are sshd.
[20:46:50] <richlowe> one contains files in / the other files in /usr
[20:46:57] <Kronuz> nope, there are SUNWssh(r/u) for the client too
[20:46:59] <richlowe> You need both.
[20:47:12] <Kronuz> oh
[20:47:21] <Kronuz> how can you tell where and what files a package installed?
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[21:02:32] <Kronuz> hey
[21:03:02] <Kronuz> does anyone know how to configure the home/end and pgup/pgdown and DEL key in the console?
[21:03:07] <Kronuz> (without X)
[21:03:47] <Kronuz> I'm using bash and it fixed the arrows issue on the /sbin/sh... but the home/end keys still don't work as expected
[21:04:23] <Kronuz> it just prints the codes: home = 14z end = 20z
[21:05:05] <Kronuz> and DEL works as a backspace, not a forward delete
[21:05:55] <Kronuz> other question is about virtual consoles
[21:06:02] <Kronuz> can you have those in solaris?
[21:06:05] <Auralis> no virtual consoles
[21:06:16] <dwc-> stty erase <hit the backspace key>
[21:06:36] <Kronuz> backspace works as expected (when using bash)
[21:06:55] <Kronuz> but DEL always do a backspace instead of a forward delete
[21:07:26] <Kronuz> also, is there a way to scroll the console up?
[21:07:35] <tsoome> no
[21:08:48] <tsoome> who needs that - you are working with some kind of terminal emulator anyhow, do you?
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[21:09:50] <Kronuz> tsoome: I'll work with ssh... but I was just wondering
[21:09:56] <tomww> Kronuz: there is no scroll back for now. probably the virtual console project introduces such thing. (you might contribute :-)
[21:10:23] <Kronuz> but what about the end/home keys?
[21:10:34] <tomww> much much much better would be to use "screen" which would give you much more than "only" scrollback
[21:10:35] <Kronuz> and the forward delete
[21:11:00] <gdamore> Kronuz: depends on your shell. :-)
[21:11:04] <leal> Failure: SSL peer shut down incorrectly...
[21:11:12] <gdamore> the keystrokes are certainly conveyed.
[21:11:19] <leal> I'm trying to make a update (fresh install).
[21:11:54] <Kronuz> gdamore: I'm using bash (that did fix the arrows, but the home/end still won't work, so I figure there's something else to do)
[21:12:13] <Kronuz> also there's always the issue with the DEL key
[21:12:14] <gdamore> does it work under Linux?
[21:12:24] <Kronuz> I suppose so
[21:12:33] <gdamore>  wouldn't assume. :-)
[21:12:52] <gdamore> i always use control-e, control-a to move the start/end of a line
[21:13:02] * Auralis has to confess that i can't remember to have ever used del
[21:13:14] <Kronuz> i guess it does... it works under FreeBSD
[21:13:46] <Kronuz> gdamore: what of forward delete?
[21:13:47] <gdamore> heh.  in X11 home/end scroll the window.
[21:13:51] <tsoome> there is always a hard way - read the shell manual and do the keybinding....
[21:13:55] <cmihai> There's no issue with any of the keys.
[21:13:56] <gdamore> dunno.
[21:14:04] <cmihai> You just didn't setup your shell profile.
[21:14:13] <gdamore> i always use control-d for forward delete
[21:14:41] * gdamore doesn't want to exit X11 to test what happens on the console...
[21:14:44] <Kronuz> I've always had the same problem with the keys in every system
[21:15:00] <Kronuz> ctrl+d works too
[21:15:01] <gdamore> which is precisely why i use the control keys instead... :-)
[21:15:01] <cmihai> Not really, you just never knew how to configure your shell :P
[21:15:08] <Kronuz> lol
[21:15:11] <cmihai> Too used to bashy default loonixy configs huh? :)
[21:15:30] <Kronuz> actually too used to DOS ^_^
[21:15:34] <cmihai> Ugh...
[21:15:38] <Kronuz> :P
[21:16:33] <dwc-> in DOS [without doskey], you wouldn't ever find a use for the delete key
[21:16:40] <dwc-> due to its lack of actual line editing
[21:16:43] <Kronuz> yeah, NDOS
[21:16:44] <gdamore> those home/end keys are often stolen by the terminal application under X11, which is why it is usually a bad idea to use them within the shell
[21:16:47] <Kronuz> hehe
[21:16:54] <Kronuz> gdamore: what other ctrl+x keys you know of?
[21:16:57] <cmihai> dwc-: Control Alt Delete :P
[21:17:06] <dwc-> they're all the readline keys
[21:17:07] <gdamore> control-f, control-b for cursor movement.
[21:17:12] <cmihai> set -o emacs for teh win :))
[21:17:17] <dwc-> and it starts out in emacs mode
[21:17:18] <gdamore> control-w delete word, control-u delete line
[21:17:20] <dwc-> so try emacs movement keys
[21:17:33] <Kronuz> gdamore: does those work in BSD and loonix too?
[21:17:36] <gdamore> tcsh: defaults to emacs keybindings
[21:17:38] <dwc-> exec /bin/ksh for better
[21:17:39] <gdamore> yes.
[21:17:42] <cmihai> Kronuz: they're shell specific.
[21:17:43] <Kronuz> :P
[21:17:56] <dwc-> and no, bash set -o vi doesn't count
[21:18:00] <Kronuz> I should've learned those a long time ago
[21:18:05] <gdamore> but for bash, ksh, and tcsh, if you use emacs bindings (which you may have to set) it is on all of them
[21:18:17] <Kronuz> interesting
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[21:18:21] <Kronuz> brb
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[21:18:46] <gdamore> also control-k deletes to end-of-line
[21:18:55] <cmihai> Or you can just use this:
[21:18:56] <cmihai> bindkey '^[[3~' delete-char
[21:19:05] <cmihai> I use ^V in zsh for the DEL char
[21:19:06] <cmihai> ex:
[21:19:16] <cmihai> bindkey Control V -> DELETE delete-char
[21:19:20] <cmihai> wammo, problem solved.
[21:20:18] <cmihai> As in, ^v gives you the keycodes of any key you push.
[21:20:24] <gdamore> right.
[21:21:56] <gdamore> i also use meta-f and meta-b a lot (esc-f, esc-b if your keyboard/terminal doesn't handle meta properly) for forward word, back word
[21:22:36] <gdamore> i get really ticked off at certain unnamed terminal emulators that won't let me configure meta-<key> to send <esc> <key>
[21:22:53] <gdamore> (ala dtterm*kshMode)
[21:23:08] <awg> C-x e edits whatever you've typed at the prompt in your editor of choice, in bash
[21:23:20] <awg> handy when typing complex commands
[21:23:39] <twincest> what an odd bug: http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102687-1
[21:24:11] <gdamore> just got notification on my rge bugs (rfes, really) to add some vendor/device ids
[21:24:12] <awg> C-x C-e, that is
[21:25:04] <gdamore> twincest: whew.  don't have that patch on my system. :-)
[21:25:43] <twincest> i do, and i have CG opterons, but apparenty they're right about sun not being affected :)
[21:26:32] <gdamore> hm... i have an original Ultra 20.  I bet it is affected.  maybe i won't install S10u2 right away. :-)
[21:27:59] <gdamore> the test command they list doesn't work under S10 03/05, so i have no idea what revision opteron I have
[21:29:09] <gdamore> i don't have 4G memory though, so i'm immune anyway.
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[21:30:14] <cmihai> Ugh...
[21:30:24] <cmihai> Gasp, I have amd64 with 4GB RAM ;\
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[21:36:26] <Kronuz> I don't have the bindkey command
[21:36:27] <Kronuz> :P
[21:36:48] <cmihai> You don't have a z shell :P
[21:36:48] <gdamore> are you using stock csh?
[21:36:53] <cmihai> You probably have bind
[21:36:54] <gdamore> stock csh sucks. :-)
[21:37:04] <cmihai> Or better yet, read your shell's manpage. Or switch to zsh.
[21:37:17] <sunnyDay> I found out today that UFS is not a journaling filesystem
[21:37:18] <gdamore> zsh is not portable. :-)
[21:37:23] <Kronuz> was it zsh the one that had colors for ls ?
[21:37:30] <cmihai> No, that's GNU ls.
[21:37:32] <sunnyDay> is zfs also not journaling filesyste?
[21:37:33] <cmihai> Or colorls.
[21:37:40] <gdamore> zfs is.
[21:37:48] <pikapika> hello
[21:37:51] * timeless doesn't think of zfs as journalling
[21:37:55] <gdamore> for some value of journaling filesystem. :-)
[21:37:57] <twincest> sunny: UFS is a logging filesystems
[21:37:59] <timeless> more like atomic
[21:38:17] <sunnyDay> gdamore, are there more disadvantages of ufs comparing to zfs?
[21:38:19] <timeless> journaling is for systems that can't manage atomic
[21:38:20] <gdamore> with zfs you don't need a journaling filesystem, might be a better way of saying it.
[21:38:24] <Kronuz> cmihai: I belive ls in other shell had colors too
[21:38:26] <cmihai> And anyway, I need little more than stock sh (portable scripts), ksh93 (every other script) and zsh (user shell) :)
[21:38:51] <cmihai> Kronuz: Your ls must also support colors. It's usually a GNU ls thing or colorls (FreeBSD's ls) thing.
[21:38:59] <cmihai> Won't see that on UNIX or OpenBSD and so on.
[21:39:00] <gdamore> sunnyDay: zfs is superior in almost every way, if you can use it.  (root filesystem and portability are the only considerations against zfs)
[21:39:07] <Kronuz> cmihai: nope, without the gnu ls
[21:39:24] <timeless> can you possibly dump a full gconf tree into a pastebin?
[21:39:28] <timeless> oops, wrong window
[21:39:29] <gdamore> ksh isn't too bad. :-)  even sun's older ksh88.
[21:39:45] <Kronuz> cmihai: tcsh it's the one
[21:39:46] <richlowe> don't let Roland hear you say that. :)
[21:39:49] <sunnyDay> gdamore, I understand the "portability" point; what do you mean by root filesystem?
[21:39:51] <gdamore> I seem to recall some other shell had a builtin ls that colorized.
[21:39:57] <cmihai> Kronuz: is this on FreeBSD?
[21:40:05] <gdamore> heh.
[21:40:07] <Kronuz> nope, Solaris
[21:40:08] <cmihai> If so, you're using ls -G, FreeBSD ls, colorls, etc.
[21:40:24] <Kronuz> ls for tcsh in Solaris
[21:40:26] <gdamore> builtin ls makes no sense tome. :-)
[21:40:31] <cmihai> It's a builtin then.
[21:40:32] <gdamore> to me i mean
[21:40:37] <Kronuz> alias ls ls-F ; set color=ls-F
[21:40:47] <cmihai> Heh, sounds... stupid really.
[21:40:48] <Kronuz> tcsh and after that it has colors
[21:41:01] <gdamore> well, it should work, just a sec and i'll try
[21:41:19] <Kronuz> but I wonder why it doesn't work with other shells
[21:41:24] <gdamore> works fine.
[21:41:29] <gdamore> because ls-F is a tcsh builtin
[21:42:04] <Kronuz> I mean, why haven't colors been implemented in the default ls
[21:42:08] <gdamore> (NFI why tcsh needs an ls builtin)
[21:42:21] <cmihai> Kronuz: it's a waste of time?
[21:42:28] <gdamore> possible considerations for POSIX, actually?
[21:42:29] <Kronuz> lol
[21:42:34] <cmihai> Some people use serial consoles, etc, etc, etc?
[21:42:53] <Kronuz> still a -G could be used
[21:43:00] <Kronuz> ^_^
[21:43:09] <cmihai> Besides, all that stuff doesn't belong in default root shells. You can have your merry berry user shells with colorls and all that, but install them yourself.
[21:43:54] <gdamore> the idea of adding it as an option for /bin/ls isn't a bad idea though
[21:43:57] <cmihai> l='colorls -laG'
[21:43:58] <cmihai> :))
[21:44:16] <cmihai> I just use colorls :)
[21:44:19] <Kronuz> cmihai: why why doesn't it belong to root shells... if it can be found useful to many then it belongs there
[21:44:38] <cmihai> No it doesn't. Bells and whistles don't belong there.
[21:44:49] <gdamore> root shells shouldn't have any cruft that would slow down fork/exec of the shell.
[21:45:01] <twincest> default roots shells are /sbin/sh, and no-one sane uses that as their login shell anyway
[21:45:04] <Kronuz> yeah, you're probably right
[21:45:06] <gdamore> but then "ls" shouldn't be a shell builtin either
[21:45:09] <cmihai> And you're not using it for "ls" anyway.
[21:45:36] <Kronuz> o_O
[21:45:41] <gdamore> all these years of using tcsh, and I never knew about ls-F builtin. :-)
[21:45:52] <twincest> great, sunsolve's broken again.  "502 Proxy Error"
[21:45:52] <Kronuz> is ls a builtin?
[21:46:03] <jengelh> use sash, it's all builtin :)
[21:46:04] <gdamore> ls-F is (note the absence of a space)
[21:46:12] <Kronuz> 'cause there's a binart called ls at /bin
[21:46:17] <jengelh> twincest : usually means Connection reset by peer if you were not to use a proxy
[21:46:29] <twincest> jen: it's not my proxy, it's sunsolve's
[21:46:38] <jengelh> ugh
[21:46:42] <jengelh> a reverse proxy huh
[21:46:43] <gdamore> Kronuz: yes, but if you use ls-F you are using the builtin, not the binary
[21:47:11] <Kronuz> gdamore: what happens if you "delete" /bin/ls
[21:47:14] <gdamore> for years I've never had an alias for "alias ls ls-F", so "which ls" reports /bin/ls
[21:47:20] <Kronuz> will the shells use a builtin one?
[21:47:36] <twincest> kronus: there is no builtin 'ls'
[21:47:37] <gdamore> Kronuz: you get what you deserve. :-)  in that case use "echo *"
[21:47:40] <Kronuz> oh
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[21:47:45] <twincest> kronus: there is a builtin 'ls-F'
[21:47:51] <twincest> kronus: but there is no /bin/ls-F command
[21:47:53] <gdamore> and only in tcsh
[21:48:12] <Kronuz> twincest: yeah, that's what I saw :)
[21:48:25] <Kronuz> but I thought there were a builtin ls too in the shells
[21:48:37] <Kronuz> (besides the ls-F, just ls)
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[21:49:24] <gdamore> nope, only if you set up an alias
[21:49:25] <twincest> problem with builtin ls is it doesn't usually match the OS
[21:49:44] <Kronuz> I would have guessed ls was a builtin in the shells
[21:49:48] <twincest> e.g. extended attributes, zfs acls, ... on solaris, selinux on linux, etc
[21:50:04] <stevel> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[21:50:07] <stevel> ugh
[21:50:09] <stevel> damn sticky keyboard
[21:50:26] <cmihai> I give mine regular hot showers
[21:50:54] <richlowe> I can't currently find an RFE for colored ls.
[21:50:58] <richlowe> I'd expect that one must exist, however.
[21:51:06] <twincest> you spelt coloured wrong.
[21:51:08] <twincest> :P
[21:51:20] <gdamore> setenv LANG=en.US
[21:51:21] <Kronuz> richlowe: RFE ?
[21:51:23] <cmihai> RFE? Request for.. existence? :)
[21:51:27] <gdamore> enhancement
[21:51:28] <stevel> enhancement
[21:51:42] <cmihai> meh, close 'nuff.
[21:51:50] <richlowe> twincest: actually, I tried both the correct spelling *and* the way americans spell it.
[21:51:53] <richlowe> twincest: so nyeh. ;)
[21:51:58] <richlowe> though yeah, I dropped the 'u' just then.
[21:51:59] <Kronuz> O_O
[21:51:59] <richlowe> damn.
[21:52:00] <gdamore> richlowe: just file one.  it should be marked oss-bite-sized.
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[21:52:09] <Kronuz> lol "Request for.. existence?"
[21:52:12] <richlowe> gdamore: yeah, but *I* don't want it.
[21:52:15] <cmihai> I demand to exist!
[21:52:18] <alanc> colored ls RFE should be marked spawn-of-satan
[21:52:21] <gdamore> don't offer to work on it. :-)
[21:52:26] <richlowe> gdamore: if you want fruit salad, make your own ;)
[21:52:34] <cmihai> Bah, ls should be ls.
[21:52:44] <Kronuz> (with color?)
[21:52:51] <cmihai> And alias l to whatever colored bike shed you want
[21:53:11] <twincest> alanc: now you're channelling gisburn
[21:53:30] <gdamore> just enable color ls with an environment variable or extra flag, IMO.  but it might be nice if the _stock_ ls had support for it, so that it could do reasonable things with Sun specific details like doors and acls
[21:53:36] <Kronuz> how come some packages start with SUNW and some don't what's the philosophy there?
[21:53:47] <alanc> damn, I was doing that last week too - would have thought that the holiday would cure that
[21:53:52] <gdamore> if it is a Sun package (originated by Sun) its SUNW (the stock ticker)
[21:53:55] <cmihai> Some come from Sun. Some are open source stuff you installed, etc.
[21:54:08] <Kronuz> oh
[21:54:15] <cmihai> You think that's bad?
[21:54:20] <alanc> (except when it comes from Sun and it's SPRO* or SFW* for historical reasons)
[21:54:21] <cmihai> You should see the way phux names stuff
[21:54:40] <gdamore> alanc: why don't you like the idea of an option to add colored output to ls?
[21:54:41] <cmihai> For example, try to guess what T1471AA is!
[21:54:51] <cmihai> Well, guess what, it's HP OpenSSH. Easy, no? :)
[21:54:56] <gdamore> looks like a T patch number to me. :-)
[21:55:07] <alanc> it's amusing that despite 5 renames of the SunPRO compilers in the last decade, they're still SPRO* and /opt/SUNWspro/*
[21:55:21] <Gman> we need to /usr/bin that sucker :)
[21:55:25] <alanc> gdamore: an option I could live with as long as it's not on by default
[21:55:32] <Kronuz> so, what's the package name for Sun Studio?
[21:55:39] <gdamore> packaging names controlled by engineering, product names controlled by marketing. :-)
[21:55:48] <gdamore> Kronuz: there are more than one.
[21:55:52] <alanc> they did an LSARC case a while back for /usr/bin/cc & friends, don't know why it hasn't happened yet
[21:56:28] * Gman also thinks that most package names should push the character limit now
[21:56:49] <twincest> LSARC?
[21:57:00] <richlowe> You know, it pains to have to say it.  But the b.o.o refresh is actually a pretty good start.
[21:57:07] <Kronuz> and how do you delete a package... pkgdel ?
[21:57:08] <alanc> Gman: only found 1 major bug in JDS since upgrading my main desktop to nv_53 over the weekend, and I'm scared it's not in GNOME...
[21:57:21] <Gman> alanc, heh, funny
[21:57:27] <gdamore> richlowe: what refresh?
[21:57:32] <richlowe> gdamore: b.o.o changed.
[21:57:34] <richlowe> gdamore: go look.
[21:57:35] <Gman> session still crashes for me regularly
[21:57:44] <richlowe> gdamore: it stopped lying to you.
[21:57:48] <twincest> richlowe: looks identical to me
[21:58:00] <twincest> there's not even a comment box
[21:58:02] <gdamore> they added type and state queries, what else?
[21:58:03] <richlowe> ... it sure as hell doesn't here.
[21:58:06] <alanc> LSARC == Layered Software ARC, the architecture review committee that reviews desktop software, compilers, and various other products that sit above the traditional core OS portions that PSARC reviews
[21:58:15] <richlowe> gdamore: it shows you keywords, it stopped lying about state, it shows you RE.
[21:58:15] <twincest> richlowe: what's different?  a couple of extra fields?
[21:58:31] <alanc> Gman: just don't turn on LCD optimization in the fonts preferences on SPARC
[21:58:38] <richlowe> I figure you have to take improvements as you get them.
[21:58:49] <Kronuz> I'd say even the "core" installation has way too much stuff installed :P
[21:58:51] <Gman> alanc, i don't think it works very well on x86 either to be honest
[21:58:52] <richlowe> I call "starting to tell the truth" a pretty good start.
[21:59:06] <stevel> wow. that's a huge improvement actually
[21:59:07] <Gman> alanc, but the fonts have changed so often that i no longer know what's a good font
[21:59:28] <richlowe> it'd be nice if you could select multiple states in the search.
[21:59:30] <Gman> stevel, must be a mistake ;)
[21:59:37] <stevel> gman: that's what i'm worried about
[21:59:37] <gdamore> Kronuz wants a kernel installation only.  :-)
[21:59:42] <Kronuz> nope
[21:59:44] <stevel> don't tell anyone on the b.o.o. team ;-)
[21:59:45] <alanc> at least on x86, the letters still had recognizable shapes
[21:59:56] <Kronuz> but why would the core have X components in it?
[22:00:01] <Gman> stevel, i'm surprised the haven't XXXX at sun dot com the RE's
[22:00:07] <stevel> yeah, me too
[22:00:08] <richlowe> Gman: probably a bug.
[22:00:16] <alanc> core install cluster doesn't include X
[22:00:17] <Gman> someone should check the interest stuff
[22:00:22] <Gman> and see if it's changed
[22:00:31] <Kronuz> alanc: X Window System kernel modules
[22:00:37] <richlowe> Gman: like hell it will have.
[22:00:44] <Gman> alanc, the dri stuff is also hellishly broken for me
[22:00:51] <richlowe> Gman: if you want to check, add me to 6474299
[22:00:55] <gdamore> Kronuz: because some of those modules are also required to get the console working?  (text console i mean)
[22:01:12] <Kronuz> I suppose they should have some other name then
[22:01:18] <gdamore> those modules are tiny, btw.
[22:01:31] <alanc> haven't tried nv_53 on an intel graphics system yet - just my SPARC desktop & Ferrari (ATI graphics)
[22:01:32] <g4lt-U60> anyone downwind of Idaho, expect a bitch of a snowstorm
[22:01:53] <sommerfeld> which way is hte wind blowing in Idaho?
[22:02:34] <Gman> richlowe, done
[22:02:44] <gdamore> holy crap, we have responsible engineers in the b.o.o.  i like it!
[22:03:18] <richlowe> see.
[22:04:17] <sommerfeld> whoa
[22:04:27] <alanc> damn, no where to hide anymore
[22:04:38] <richlowe> just don't say it too loud, or they'll probably vanish ;)
[22:04:54] <gdamore> heh.  on 647299 the RE field is empty
[22:05:03] <gdamore> 6474299
[22:05:22] <twincest> can i delete old patch jars in /var/sadm/spool?
[22:05:22] <richlowe> I figure stevel should do it.
[22:05:33] <richlowe> oh, no that's the whatthread thing.
[22:05:36] <richlowe> I did that over the weekend.
[22:05:39] <richlowe> he better not do that ;)
[22:05:48] <Burana> Does anybode know how to set the service processor IP in the X4200 bios? I get a BMC not responding message...
[22:06:05] <stevel> i've got enough on my plate thanks
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[22:06:50] <Gman> really we should just open up the rest of the info too
[22:07:07] <Gman> and avoid doing it for anything non-blank in the escalation field
[22:07:26] <alanc> | seems like a weird keyword separator
[22:07:41] <gdamore> that would be nice.  the "comments" field should probably still be suppressed though -- i'm sure there is historic confidential information in some bugs
[22:07:44] <gdamore> s/some/most/
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[22:08:39] <alanc> could have a keyword or flag we could set for "allow publishing comments externally" and "allow publishing evaluation externally" that we could set on bugs that are known clear and set by default on new bugs
[22:08:51] <Gman> yeah
[22:09:19] <alanc> but we still get new bugs filed with "See comments" descriptions so we can't even get that word out widely enough yet, much less that comments could be public
[22:09:20] <twincest> hm, docs.sun.com = slow like snail today
[22:10:19] <Gman> alanc, they could at least open up certain products
[22:10:26] <Gman> we could open up jds tomorrow i should think
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[22:12:06] <richlowe> alanc: there's a social solution to that.
[22:12:15] <richlowe> alanc: any time you see one filed in a cat you're interested in, LART the submitter.
[22:12:18] <sommerfeld> richlowe: yep.  involves baseball bats.
[22:12:27] <richlowe> See. :)
[22:12:52] <Burana> So Solaris 10 11/06 Docs are up. Where are the ISOs? http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/1236.5
[22:13:07] <Kronuz> hey, what book would you recomend about Solaris?
[22:13:07] <alanc> I've been tempted to start marking them as "incomplete" until they put in a decent description, but most of the "See comments" we get these days come from SPARC QA and I
[22:13:20] <alanc> 'm already fighting enough battles against the SPARC groups
[22:13:44] <Kronuz> like for learning how to load drivers and kernel modules, daemons, packages, administration, etc.
[22:14:00] <alanc> and dammit, there's a brand new "See comments" bug just arrived in my inbox
[22:14:03] <sommerfeld> alanc: ah, yes, those guys need to get sent to open development reeducation camps
[22:14:12] <_william_> hi all
[22:14:33] <twincest> how can i make 'sort' sort the output of du -h properly?
[22:14:37] <twincest> (e.g. 19M is higher than 20K'
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[22:15:23] <sommerfeld> twincest: only thing which comes to mind: sed s/M/000000/g | sed s/K/000/g
[22:15:34] <richlowe> alanc: break out the lart, make the world a better place.
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[22:15:41] <sommerfeld> (that's a sketch, not a solution)
[22:17:45] <twincest> heh, 500MB vmcore from april stealing my disk spae
[22:18:04] <alanc> I just did a copy-and-paste of comments to description and set the comments to a note about "See Comments is not an acceptable bug description"
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[22:24:12] <gdamore> alanc++
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[22:24:35] <gdamore> twincest: sort -n
[22:24:45] <richlowe> that still won't quite work.
[22:24:46] <twincest> that sorts 20K higher than 20M
[22:24:51] <twincest> er, higher than 19M
[22:24:53] <richlowe> "stop using -h" :)
[22:25:12] <gdamore> richlowe++
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[22:28:06] <onbot> commit by daemon:  Added tag onnv_54 for changeset 37b6f32ad9fc8678e022725d5063e1521a6cee47
[22:28:06] <onbot> commit by Gerald Jelinek:  6494678 Zone attach dry-run fails with 'missing or invalid brand'
[22:28:06] <onbot> commit by Wyllys Ingersoll:  6495595 KMF incorrectly checks the CA constraint; 6495596 KMF_OpenSSL plugin incorrectly clears memory from returned cert list.
[22:28:11] <onbot> commit by hyw:  6492102 RESET_USER_RTT_REGS() checking is needed in OPL
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[22:29:20] <sommerfeld> (whoever set up onbot)++
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[22:30:02] <richlowe> sommerfeld: johnlev, I believe.
[22:30:04] <cmihai> Gasp. Me wonders who the hell gave /home 32768 total allocated Kb :))
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[22:31:19] <gdamore> the /home directory is just an automount farm, it shouldn't contain real data, that should come from /export/home in a normal Sun install
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[22:32:06] <myren> is it possible to get nvidia graphics card binaries running in opensolaris
[22:32:07] <myren> ?
[22:32:12] <cmihai> This is a phu gdamore :)
[22:32:17] <cmihai> myren: yes, and it works.
[22:32:22] <cmihai> I played Quake1,2,3, etc ;)
[22:32:41] <cmihai> erm, ph-ux :P
[22:33:02] <jbk> so i'm not the only one that calls it that? :)
[22:33:24] <andersmo> Everybody but HP calls it that, afaik? Just like Slowlaris? =)
[22:33:44] <myren> cmihai: thats fantastic!
[22:33:55] <cmihai> myren: from a 1.4TB array!
[22:33:57] <mrdeviant> i've never heard ph-ux. normally i hear hp-sux
[22:34:02] <myren> congradulations opensolaris, you just got promoted to Dom0!
[22:34:17] <cmihai> And it's all ate up by /home/oracle :))
[22:34:20] <cmihai> (duh)
[22:34:21] <twincest> i don't think i'd want to try opensolaris+xen+nvidia myself
[22:34:28] <twincest> the xen stuff is fairly new
[22:34:48] <kiivi> hp-sux seems more common.
[22:35:10] <cmihai> Well, they're both quite true :)
[22:35:14] <andersmo> ...and aches.
[22:35:15] <alanc> myren: just download the Solaris drivers from nvidia.com
[22:35:29] <cmihai> myren: it's pretty straight forward. But remember, you need Xorg not XSun.
[22:35:36] <kiivi> databases are one area where zfs needs careful consideration as they can be tuned to expect ufs.
[22:35:54] <alanc> nvidia binary drivers will even be bundled into Solaris Express starting in nv_53
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[22:36:40] <cmihai> They work quite well. Got some 500+ fps in quake 2 on my gf6600 :)
[22:37:18] <Gman> alanc, the nvidia gui is funny
[22:37:46] <Gman> 'Show "Really Quit?" Dialog
[22:37:55] <alanc> I like the way it shows up on all machines since there's no way to put in it's desktop file to only show the menu on machines with nvidia graphics
[22:37:59] <cmihai> The nvidia-config or whatever it's called?
[22:38:19] <Gman> alanc, yeah, that's pretty annoying
[22:38:27] <sommerfeld> cmihai: aka "making the rubble bounce"
[22:38:31] <clee> alanc: you can't create the .desktop in a postinst script?
[22:38:36] <clee> or copy it into-place or something like that?
[22:39:12] <alanc> now that we're installing the drivers as part of the OS install, it gets installed on all machines
[22:39:21] <alanc> unless you manually unselect it
[22:39:37] <clee> oh, right. I have no idea how solaris packages work
[22:39:45] <richlowe> badly. :)
[22:39:46] <clee> I'd assume there's some sort of a postinstallation phase where you can run shell scripts though
[22:39:47] * richlowe whistles
[22:40:15] <alanc> there is
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[22:40:41] <alanc> and we could put a check there to only install the .desktop on machines with nvidia cards, but then if someone upgraded to an nvidia card later, they wouldn't get it
[22:40:54] <twincest> 6390372 SUNWswupclr preremove script issues if user does upgrade with DSR.
[22:40:56] <twincest> what's a DSR?
[22:41:04] <clee> they'd still get the driver, and they would still be able to run 'nvidia-settings' from the command-line
[22:41:16] <clee> but, yeah, no perfect solution.
[22:41:36] <sommerfeld> twincest: Disk Space Reallocation.
[22:41:39] <twincest> ah
[22:41:49] <sommerfeld> which has to be the most frightening capability in the install code.
[22:42:11] <sommerfeld> "we'll copy your /export/foo elsewhere, repartition, newfs, and copy it back"
[22:43:06] <onbot> commit by James Anderson:  6470022 OPL scfd driver should be moved into the closed source tree
[22:43:06] <onbot> commit by susan kamm-worrell:  6335025 telnet or rsh processing 5-15 times slower in S10 (6-330 times slower on T2000)
[22:43:07] <onbot> commit by Michen Chang:  6495346 memory leak in nss_dns.so.1/_nss_dns_gethost_withttl; 6495347 getexecuser/getexecprof leak memory in nss_nis.so and nss_nisplus.so
[22:43:36] <onbot> commit by dp78419:  6488843 Hashed Cache index mode support for Huron; 6489149 colorequivszc[] may be set incorrectly on sun4v; 6489393 MTYPE_START/MTYPE_NEXT DR race in ASSERT macro; 6493685 randomize effective process user stack start address to avoid thrashing caches on sun4v platforms
[22:43:36] <onbot> commit by Chin-Long Shu:  6495007 memory leak in libsldap:__s_api_get_cachemgr_data()
[22:43:54] <alanc> putback bot?
[22:44:01] <richlowe> alanc: Yeah.
[22:44:02] <quasi> alanc: yeh
[22:44:06] <onbot> commit by Jean McCormack:  5079387 _get_auth_policy() doesn't provide corresponding free function; 6197467 svccfg segfaults on unmatched (; 6464928 *librestart* leaks memory in restarter_get_method_context()
[22:44:07] <timeless> yeah /ignore onbot if it bothers
[22:44:10] <richlowe> except the bridge backed up, so they all came through at once.
[22:44:12] <quasi> annoys some people
[22:44:27] <timeless> does it provide any other services beyond commit lists?
[22:44:47] <timeless> as long as it only plays one tune, ignoring it is easy
[22:44:47] <richlowe> interest it on CRs and subvert the bug suck! ;)
[22:44:49] <alanc> hadn't noticed it before
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[22:46:30] <alanc> hmm, power management at SVOSUG this week - maybe I should go heckle them...
[22:47:03] <gdamore> alanc: that topic i'd like to hear.
[22:47:14] <gdamore> i'm kinda remote for SVOSUG, though
[22:47:15] <alanc> you can drive up or call in
[22:47:32] <gdamore> i can call in?  cool.
[22:47:39] <alanc> it's only what, an 8-hour drive on the 5?
[22:47:40] <gdamore> URL, or phone number?
[22:47:56] <gdamore> yeah, but i don't want to be there _that_ badly. :-)
[22:48:01] <alanc> http://blogs.sun.com/aland/
[22:48:59] <alanc> but power management demos aren't very impressive over the phone - "the screen is now black - if you're on the phone, just turn off your monitor to help imagine that"
[22:49:10] <gdamore> heh.
[22:49:27] <alanc> not that they're really exciting in person
[22:49:52] <richlowe> the call in has been kinda sketchy, the last couple of times.
[22:49:59] <gdamore> i am curious, but i'm more interested in hooking up with folks inside sun who are doing power management stuff, to make sure the stuff works on sparc, too
[22:50:05] <Gman> someone needs to stream the fucker
[22:50:17] <gdamore> and, frankly, framebuffer power managment isn't as interesting as the rest of the bits.
[22:50:22] <alanc> and the last time they demo'ed for the SE's I was standing at the demo next to them for about half an hour and every single person asked "So can I run it on my laptop?" and went away disappointed
[22:50:23] <gdamore> (cpu throttling, etc.)
[22:50:24] <richlowe> Gman: just like ARC calls need to be bridged onto SIP :)
[22:50:30] <Gman> yeah
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[22:50:33] * elektronkind vollunteers a mp3 streaming server (icecast-based)
[22:50:49] <alanc> gdamore: they're mostly making x86 catch up to where SPARC has been for years right now
[22:50:58] <elektronkind> all we need is someone there with a mic and any number of apps to encode and send a stream to the server
[22:51:03] <gdamore> ah, that's less interesting than.
[22:51:25] <alanc> the big project de-jure is suspend-and-resume, first to RAM, then to disk (ala SPARC's cpr)
[22:51:35] <gdamore> Sun's SPARC stuff is actually somewhat primitive (WRT power management).  We (Tadpole) have gone further, but its all proprietary at the moment
[22:52:00] <myren> whoa i jumped in at a weird point
[22:52:09] <alanc> different group is working on CPU power/load adjusting (ala AMD powernow)
[22:52:38] <timeless> hrm
[22:52:44] <richlowe> and there's casper's powernow, if you want something in the interim.
[22:52:45] <timeless> anyone here play w/ mercurial on win32?
[22:53:00] <gdamore> i'm working with casper on stuff.
[22:53:04] <gdamore> (or at least I should be :-)
[22:53:57] <alanc> but if you're looking for the guys doing this work, I know most of them (especially the one on loan from the X group to handle the video card driver suspend/resume), so can give you their addresses
[22:54:39] <gdamore> alanc: i might get in touch with you wrt later.
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[22:56:33] <alanc> heh - now the entire world gets to know everytime jurassic crashes when the teamware -> mercurial gateway dies
[22:57:07] <stevel> it would be less noticable if i ran the bridge from somewhere other than my home directory :-P
[22:57:12] <gdamore> interesting that we get to see putbacks to closed source.
[22:57:28] <marctt> does c0d0 correspond to /dev/hda in linux?
[22:57:39] <elektronkind> you mean the bridge isn't more "enterprise-like" ?
[22:58:04] <stevel> gdamore: you don't.  you gt to see putbacks the the open tree that also affect closed-source
[22:58:13] <elektronkind> erm, any care to donate money to stevel for a SMF manifest for the bridge or something??
[22:58:14] <stevel> you wouldn't see a putback which purely touched closed-source
[22:58:24] <marctt> anyone?
[22:58:29] <elektronkind> s/any/anyone
[22:58:38] <alanc> more enterprise like?   you mean the captain's chair in the middle isn't enough like the Enterprise?
[22:58:44] <elektronkind> har har
[22:58:47] <marctt> does c0d0 correspond to /dev/hda in linux?
[22:58:49] <stevel> eletronkind: lol
[22:58:55] <alanc> or is that stevel's hot seat?
[22:59:03] <elektronkind> I mean NOT RUNNING OUT OF $HOME
[22:59:21] <elektronkind> I don't even run irc bots out of $HOME anymore
[22:59:38] * stevel has never claimed the bridge was enterprise-quality ;-0
[23:00:02] <stevel> it's barely william-shatner quality
[23:00:12] <marctt> can anyone please help me?
[23:00:22] <elektronkind> well SMF would at least try to restart it, right? or does is some manual doo-doo picking up required wheneven it breaks?
[23:00:33] <elektronkind> s/is/it require
[23:00:36] <onbot> commit by Vikram Hegde:  6469348 lofiadm shouldn't depend on syseventd
[23:00:38] <elektronkind> er nm
[23:00:41] <elektronkind> I'm tired
[23:00:54] <stevel> elektronkind: it depends when and where it breaks, if it broke in the middle of a bridge operation, it may require some cleaning up to do
[23:01:04] <stevel> cute. who setup onbot?
[23:01:05] <alanc> sorry marctt, don't know linux well enough - /dev/dsk/c0d0 is disk #0 on controller #0
[23:01:31] <gdamore> linux /dev/hda depends on probe order.
[23:01:44] <gdamore> so it really totally depends.
[23:01:45] * elektronkind extends his pointer finger and thumb and places the back of his hand against his forehead
[23:02:17] <marctt> :/
[23:02:27] <richlowe> stevel: johnlev, I think.
[23:03:08] <gdamore> marctt: but if you have a single disk in your system, then yes, /dev/hda will probably be c0d0
[23:03:13] * g4lt-U60 o/~ he was lookin kinda dumb with his finger and his thumb, in the shape of an l on his forehead o/~
[23:03:41] <alanc> heh, same song I was just thinking of
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[23:05:06] <Gman> it's amzing looking at ON notify
[23:05:28] <Gman> because of the sheer amount of people popping up who actually don't contribute to opensolaris at all :)
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[23:07:18] <alanc> ooh, the "show time in other time zones" in the gnome 2.16 clock applet is cool
[23:07:35] <sommerfeld> stevel: hah.  was just watching one of the "remastered" episodes.  (the 2-part retread of the first pilot, with the "blink once for yes, two for no" guy)
[23:07:53] <Gman> alanc, except it looks like ass
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[23:09:03] <printk> is 2.16 avail for solaris?
[23:09:21] <cmihai> Are we supposed to figure out that is GNOME? :)
[23:09:32] <printk> context clues :)
[23:09:55] <printk> yes gnome
[23:09:58] <alanc> 2.16 packages for Solaris Express/Nevada builds are available from opensolaris.org - for older releases, I think blastwave is working on them
[23:10:16] <alanc> I'm using the ones built into nv_53 here 8-)
[23:11:00] <alanc> the SMF services panel as a single list of 150 items is a bit unwieldy - would be nice to group into more managable chunks
[23:11:03] <printk> k... ive only been running opensolaris for a day.. still getting use to it.    Recomping ON as we speak
[23:11:21] <printk> s/recomping/compiling
[23:11:30] <twincest> hmm, i don't have the "uninstall" program that the appserver docs reference
[23:11:33] * twincest wonder show to uninstall it
[23:13:07] <onbot> commit by jonathan haslam:  6493158 pid provider having problems matching module names
[23:13:08] <Gman> stevel, would there be a desire for a opensolaris-notify
[23:13:11] <Gman> ?
[23:13:36] <Gman> stevel, with all public repos sending mail to that list as well as their respective interest group
[23:14:16] <twincest> ah, it seems to be hiding in /var
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[23:14:44] <stevel> it might be interesting to see from a statistics point of view
[23:15:21] <stevel> but there isn't currently a way to support sending notifications to multiple addresses in the SCM webapp
[23:16:03] <Gman> stevel, suck. goat.
[23:16:11] <marctt> thanks, so c0d1 would be the second disk on ide0, right?
[23:16:19] <stevel> :)
[23:16:26] <richlowe> stevel: sure there is.
[23:16:30] <richlowe> stevel: subscribe the master list to the sublists.
[23:16:31] <richlowe> :)
[23:16:41] <Gman> heh
[23:16:44] <marctt> it wanted to install itself on c0d0 and i dont want this, it is my xp
[23:16:55] <Gman> i can't wait until the webapp is public
[23:16:56] <Gman> *cough*
[23:17:00] <marctt> gdamore ?
[23:17:05] <marctt> anyone? :)
[23:17:08] <gdamore> yes?
[23:17:20] <movement> stevel: so why is onnv-notify so slow?
[23:17:21] <stevel> gman: me too
[23:17:26] <marctt> c0d1 would be the second disk on ide0, right?
[23:17:31] <gdamore> marctt: c0d1 is the 2nd disk on ide0, yes.
[23:17:42] <Gman> stevel, for now i'll just log it
[23:17:51] <stevel> movement: because outgoing mail seems to lag for some reason, and i don't know why
[23:18:03] <marctt> now it is installing on c0d1
[23:18:05] <stevel> garypen and i looked into it briefly but didn't see anything of note
[23:18:16] <marctt> i wonder if it will grub the mbr
[23:19:00] <gdamore> probably it will.  i have not tried to install a multiboot system.  who needs windows anyway? :-)
[23:19:29] <Gman> stevel, 6497700: We need opensolaris-notify awesomeness!
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[23:19:48] <richlowe> movement: the gate backed up.
[23:19:52] <richlowe> movement: (see tools-discuss)
[23:19:58] <richlowe> well, the bridge did, rather.
[23:20:00] <movement> ah, will do
[23:20:07] <movement> I've noticed it do it before
[23:20:16] <richlowe> the times before is the automounter snafu.
[23:20:27] <richlowe> if the mount doesn't happen fast enough, hg bails.
[23:20:31] <richlowe> so the push doesn't happen until the next putback.
[23:20:38] <stevel> ah. okay, we're talking about different "slowdowns"
[23:20:53] <stevel> there is the actual smtp+mailman delay which seems to be a few minutes
[23:21:06] <stevel> then there is the automounter cock-up which rich just described
[23:21:09] <richlowe> a few minutes isn't quite so noticable as "most of the day", or "A couple of hours"
[23:21:12] <richlowe> :)
[23:21:21] <stevel> and then there is the jurassic went away problem which is what happened today
[23:21:26] <Doc> rich: you complain too much. stop it! :)
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[23:21:55] <stevel> lol
[23:21:58] <Doc> "Nov 27: Jurassic is not responding to pings, nfs, etc. Cause currently unknown."
[23:22:02] <richlowe> Hey, these are just descriptions.
[23:22:03] <Doc> that cant be good
[23:22:52] <marctt> solaris use grub?
[23:23:10] <cmihai> Some versions do. Like after u1+ or express
[23:23:27] <marctt> only?
[23:23:36] <cmihai> only.. x86? or what do you mean
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[23:23:47] <marctt> so it might not grub my mbr
[23:23:50] <cmihai> Only 10+? Yeah...  etc. What/why?
[23:24:01] <twincest> you shouldn't be installing a version that doesn't use grub, it would be old
[23:24:07] <cmihai> Well, I guess you could try using grub to chainload it or something. Don't know, don't care.
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[23:32:54] <Kronuz> what should I check to see why I don't have network connection?
[23:33:20] <stevel> your network cable?
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[23:34:10] <Kronuz> lol
[23:34:21] <Kronuz> stevel: I just installed solaris
[23:34:46] <Kronuz> the network cable is okay, but for some reason the link is not working
[23:34:55] <Kronuz> I should have selected dhcp...
[23:35:04] <Kronuz> (during the installation)
[23:35:07] <printk> Kronuz: did you setup your resolver?
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[23:35:45] <printk> Kronuz: 72.14.207.99
[23:35:50] <printk> can u ping that ip?
[23:36:24] <Kronuz> nope
[23:36:32] <Kronuz> I think my gateway is wrong...
[23:36:37] <stevel> is your interface up?
[23:36:43] <stevel> and plumbed?
[23:36:49] <Kronuz> the thing is I'm not sure how to setup these things in solaris... I'm too new
[23:37:12] <Auralis> Kronuz: where you asked during the install to input your network settings?
[23:37:13] <printk> Kronuz: use ifconfig to bring up your interface.  ifconfig -a shows a list of known interfaces.  for example ifconfig eth0 up 192.168.2.2
[23:37:24] <Kronuz> Auralis: yep
[23:37:29] <printk> Kronuz: then bring up your default gateway (i.e. your router or ISP's gateway) route add default 192.168.2.1
[23:39:22] <Kronuz> printk: okay now 72.14.207.99 says "72.14.207.99 is alive"
[23:39:29] <Kronuz> when I do a ping to it
[23:39:34] <printk> ok your connected, that's google
[23:39:41] <Kronuz> is that the way ping works in Solaris?
[23:39:44] <printk> can you ping google.com now?
[23:39:45] <printk> yah
[23:39:46] <Kronuz> just says it's alive?
[23:39:51] <printk> yah by default
[23:39:53] <twincest> kronuz: ping -s is what you're used to
[23:39:58] <Kronuz> it says unknown host
[23:40:19] <Kronuz> so no DNS I suppose
[23:40:32] <printk> Kronuz: okk you need to setup your resolver.  cp /etc/nsswitch.dns to /etc/nsswitch.conf and edit /etc/resolv.conf and insert "nameserver <ip address of your nameservver or router>"
[23:41:10] <Kronuz> there's no /etc/resolv.conf, I'll create it, I suppose
[23:41:14] <printk> correct
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[23:42:36] <Kronuz> printk: do I have to bring down and up the device again for the changes to take effect?
[23:42:42] <printk> nope
[23:42:45] <Kronuz> hmm
[23:42:48] <Kronuz> 'cause it's not working
[23:42:58] <printk> what'd yyou put in your /etc/resolv.conf?
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[23:43:08] <printk> and did you cp /etc/nsswitch.dns to /etc/nsswitch.conf ?
[23:43:10] <Kronuz> just the nameserver line
[23:43:24] <Kronuz> printk: tere's already a nsswitch.conf
[23:43:29] <Kronuz> should I overwrite it?
[23:43:31] <printk> yes
[23:43:35] <Kronuz> what's the nsswitch?
[23:43:48] <printk> most likely you didn't configure it to use outside DNS server
[23:43:55] <Kronuz> it's working now
[23:43:57] <Kronuz> yes :)
[23:43:59] <Auralis> it tells the system what name service to use in what order
[23:44:07] <printk> what auralis said
[23:44:13] <Kronuz> oh
[23:44:28] <printk> Kronuz: there ya go, yah I installed sxcr 52 yesterday and i had the same problem :P
[23:44:32] <Auralis> your hostfile, a dns server, a ladp server, a nis servcer or a combination
[23:44:50] <twincest> do people not select DNS as their naming service during install?  or does that not setup nsswitch itself?
[23:45:02] <printk> twincest: people are probably selecting NONOE
[23:45:04] <printk> er NONE
[23:45:07] <printk> that's what i did lol :)
[23:45:19] <Kronuz> twincest: I didn't
[23:45:28] <Kronuz> I thought it was to install bind
[23:45:33] <twincest> print: why did you do that?  maybe someone should file a bug to make the installer more clear about it
[23:45:54] <printk> well it is clear actually i thought it meant if i wanted to setup LDAP or NIS
[23:46:05] <timeless> gman: so, what's the status of snv_53? i want to install it
[23:46:06] <printk> i just went through too fast
[23:46:42] <Kronuz> so, if you don't select anything it's the same as with nsswitch.files ?
[23:46:46] <Kronuz> or something else?
[23:46:49] <twincest> yes, files
[23:47:00] <Kronuz> oh :)
[23:47:01] <Gman> timeless, not yet out
[23:47:09] <Gman> timeless, possibly by the end of this week?
[23:47:19] <Kronuz> at least it was easy to fix...
[23:47:27] <richlowe> I'd expect later this week.
[23:47:29] <Kronuz> printk: about the gateway I added
[23:47:39] * jmcp heads officewards
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[23:47:45] <alanc> not sure who knows the SXCR posting status now that kritter is gone
[23:47:52] <Kronuz> printk: what about after the next reboot
[23:47:57] <printk> now if i stay up to date with the onnv-gate repo, there is no need for mme to download snv_53 right?
[23:48:00] <twincest> kronuz: /etc/defaultrouter
[23:48:05] <richlowe> recently it's been about 1-1.5 weeks after they're available internally.
[23:48:06] <timeless> do only odd versions appear as snv_?
[23:48:14] <richlowe> No.
[23:48:15] <timeless> because i tried grabbing a version and was offered snv_51
[23:48:32] <alanc> printk: if all you care about is the kernel and core utilities, no - onnv is only about 20% of SX:CR though
[23:48:45] <printk> alanc: ok, but there is an
[23:48:53] <printk> "upgrade" option right?
[23:48:54] <Kronuz> twincest: where are all the files for network configuration in Solaris?
[23:48:56] <alanc> yes
[23:49:01] <richlowe> alanc: you need a form response for this :)
[23:49:02] <twincest> kronuz: /etc
[23:49:05] <printk> ok cool
[23:49:18] <alanc> download snv_53 and use live upgrade or boot from cd/dvd and use the upgrade option
[23:49:19] <Kronuz> the /etc/defaultrouter is not there :S
[23:49:24] <timeless> richlowe: so should snv_52 be available?
[23:49:26] <twincest> kronuz: that's because you haven't set a default router
[23:49:31] <richlowe> timeless: it is available.
[23:49:34] <twincest> kronuz: put the IP or hostname of your router in it
[23:49:37] <printk> timeless: snv_52 is available
[23:49:43] <timeless> http://opensolaris.org/os/about/distributions/ links to snv_51
[23:49:46] <Kronuz> twincest: as a single line? just the IP?
[23:49:47] <timeless> did i do something wrong?
[23:49:50] <twincest> kronuz: yes
[23:49:52] <richlowe> timeless: then the link is outdated.
[23:50:00] <Kronuz> twincest: okay, thanks :)
[23:50:12] <timeless> hrm, typing 52 works :)
[23:50:15] <twincest> kronuz: if you had to configure your own IP as well, create /etc/hostname.<interface> and putyour  host or ip in that as well
[23:50:17] <alanc> still say we need a single SX:CR page instead of having links hidden in weird places like the ON build instructions
[23:50:18] <timeless> (typing 53 didn't work)
[23:50:28] <richlowe> alanc: Yes.
[23:50:29] <Gman> OpenSolaris Weekly News #39 - http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2006-November/022099.html
[23:50:37] <timeless> i'm assuming waiting 5 days for someone to see me filing a bug about the link being bad isn't a good use of my time?
[23:50:54] <richlowe> The CR's hit buqtraq near instantly.
[23:51:00] <richlowe> they just take an inordinate amount of time to get back to you, sometimes.
[23:51:14] <timeless> so i should file one?
[23:51:21] <Gman> website-discuss should probably be the IE on all the website related bugs
[23:51:24] <alanc> mailing website-discuss might be more efficient for a simple bad link though
[23:51:28] <Kronuz> twincest: okay, thanks
[23:51:45] <Kronuz> twincest: if I put the hostname there, then /etc/hosts will tell what the IP is, right?
[23:51:50] <twincest> yes
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[23:52:04] <Kronuz> twincest: and what other files are there for configuring the network?
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[23:52:37] <twincest> dhcp.* for dhcp, and hostname6 for ipv6
[23:53:23] <twincest> few things in /etc/inet
[23:53:31] <Kronuz> then it's just: /etc/hostname.<device> /etc/hosts /etc/defaultrouter /etc/nsswitch.conf and those?
[23:53:36] <kAv_> dont frget ipnodes
[23:53:43] <twincest> ipnodes is not existing in current builds
[23:53:46] <twincest> (it's a symlink)
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[23:53:56] <timeless> ok, there goes nothing
[23:53:58] <kAv_> ah didnt know that :>
[23:54:36] <Kronuz> twincest: thanks :)
[23:54:37] <twincest> kronuz: i don't have a list of all networking-related config files in my head :)
[23:54:52] <Kronuz> that's enough to get me started anyway :)
[23:56:07] <stevel> gman: love this week's quote
[23:56:27] <Kronuz> o_O
[23:56:33] <Kronuz> binaries in the /etc/ ?!
[23:56:56] <printk> wow solaris has come along way.  I think last time I used sunos was when it was actually stilll called SunOS.... 4.1.3 if memory serves (?) kudos to developers
[23:57:20] <alanc> SunOS 4.1.3 was ancient - had to recompile libc if you wanted DNS support
[23:57:29] <printk> yup
[23:57:36] <alanc> but that was 1988 or so
[23:57:44] <printk> well i used it in 92 :)
[23:57:45] <twincest> kronuz: Unix has traditionally put several binaries in /etc.  these days they're only symlinks
[23:57:47] <printk> but yah sounds right
[23:58:01] <Gman> stevel, it was a stupid idea of mine to give myself the extra burden of quotes! :/
[23:58:31] <Kronuz> twincest: yeah, I know... but I thought that was an old old ancient and forgotten practice
[23:58:31] <richlowe> the things that aren't symlinks are bugs.
[23:58:33] <richlowe> I'm filing them now.
[23:58:39] <richlowe> (oh for a way to bulk-file CRs)
[23:58:46] <timeless> heh
[23:58:52] <twincest> kronuz: removing them would break backward compatibility for no gain
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[23:58:55] <timeless> why can't you bulk file?
[23:59:01] <timeless> perl script taking a csv? :)
[23:59:07] <timeless> (mail merge, from wordperfect)
[23:59:18] <Kronuz> no gain?!
[23:59:31] <Gman> richlowe, if it uses bugs-by-mail it should be possible
[23:59:35] <Kronuz> well... I wouldn't say it like that ;)
[23:59:58] <Kronuz> correctness is pretty good gain, I'd say :P
[23:59:59] <alanc> could write a perl script using LWP to POST to the web form





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