[00:00:27] <darkcmd> I'm in a debate whether to put OpenVMS or UNIX on it
[00:01:08] <darkcmd> is tru64 fairly expensive?
[00:01:25] <Plaidrab> I have no idea.,
[00:01:34] <Plaidrab> I have a bud who's toptier support on it though. :)
[00:01:53] <Plaidrab> Which are you more likely to look for work in?
[00:02:36] <darkcmd> I like UNIX better, hands down
[00:03:00] <darkcmd> but I haven't run OpenVMS much, and am a bit curious
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[00:03:22] <darkcmd> Doesn't make much sense that HP is juggling Tru64 and HP-UX
[00:03:29] <Plaidrab> I tend to look at playing on old hardware through the lens of "What might pay for the kids lunch next year"
[00:03:30] <deather> You can try OpenVMS for free with the hobbyist license
[00:03:55] <darkcmd> deather, I have a DECUS number as well as a OpenVMS license through that program
[00:04:04] <darkcmd> I just need the media, which they want money for
[00:04:11] <deather> oh, okay, I see...
[00:04:16] <darkcmd> which I'm assuming is for the actual physical copy
[00:04:25] <deather> I think, yes, and for the shipping
[00:04:28] <deather> What are the costs?
[00:04:53] <twincest> darkcmd: tru64 is being eol'd afaik
[00:04:54] <darkcmd> somewhere near 40 bucks, which doesn't seem worth it, to just mess around with something
[00:05:01] <darkcmd> eol'd?
[00:05:05] <twincest> end of lined
[00:05:06] <deather> end of lifed
[00:05:06] <darkcmd> end of life ?
[00:05:11] <twincest> yeah, that
[00:05:11] <deather> s/f/n/ :-)
[00:05:22] <darkcmd> so they're just going to stick with HP-UX?
[00:05:28] <deather> anyway, beeing eol'd or not, it could be fun to play with it
[00:05:49] <twincest> darkcmd: yes
[00:05:57] <twincest> hp-ux on itanium
[00:06:15] <darkcmd> yeah, but i really don't see the point in me getting into all this other hardware when everyone is pretty much abandoning the others for x86
[00:06:42] <darkcmd> not sure if it is worth it
[00:06:55] <Error_404> legacy machines?
[00:07:05] <darkcmd> yes
[00:07:13] <Error_404> VMS admins will be worth a lot due to their rarity
[00:07:38] <darkcmd> other than that, am I just better off sticking with UNIX on X86?
[00:08:00] <Plaidrab> What definition are you using of UNIX there?
[00:08:21] <darkcmd> The BSDs as well as Solaris, and stuff like that
[00:08:24] <darkcmd> not Linux
[00:08:58] <darkcmd> would that be correct?
[00:08:59] <Plaidrab> Well, based on what I see where I work, there are long gonna be jobs for non-Linux Unixes and even old school Big Iron
[00:09:20] <darkcmd> old school Big Iron?
[00:09:28] <Plaidrab> darkcmd: It depends on who you talk to. Some people have a very narrow or very broad definition of Unix.
[00:09:34] <Plaidrab> Mainframes
[00:09:40] <Plaidrab> Real, honest to god Mainframes
[00:09:58] <darkcmd> I had an IBM S/390 given to me
[00:10:00] <darkcmd> does that count?
[00:10:11] <Plaidrab> Prolly. :)
[00:10:57] <darkcmd> still, there's probably no point in learning how to use and mess with the old dec stations and stuff of that nature
[00:10:59] <Plaidrab> Anyway. Based on my limited world view, depending on the market around you, I don't see it as being any mistake to continue working and skill-deving on HPUX, Solaris, and the like.
[00:11:29] <Plaidrab> I've seen articles citing a LOT of folks still running VMS boxen, mostly Open, but
[00:11:57] <darkcmd> My VMS experience is limited to free shells on public VMS clusters
[00:13:00] <darkcmd> though my favorite machine that I own, is by far the Ultra 2
[00:13:39] <Stric> I tried installing HPUX once.. everything seemed to go just fine.. and when the install was complete, it printed FAILURE all over the screen in huge ascii letters.. and then it didn't boot..
[00:13:45] <Stric> so I kinda gave up on HPUX :)
[00:13:48] <galt> well, the alphas could run VMS
[00:13:56] <darkcmd> I have an alpha as well
[00:14:22] <darkcmd> HP-UX only runs on the PARISC machines I believe
[00:15:57] <galt> they made a version for sun3 once IIRC
[00:16:06] <twincest> darkcmd: HP-UX is running on Itanium for a few years
[00:16:16] <twincest> darkcmd: as i said, HP-UX on Itanium is HP's current Unix platform
[00:16:16] <darkcmd> really?
[00:16:30] <Plaidrab> I dunno
[00:16:31] <darkcmd> ah so they've abandoned PARISC mostly?
[00:16:35] <Plaidrab> They still sell a lotta superdomes
[00:17:05] <tsoome> are they developing PARISC is the question...
[00:17:24] <twincest> pa-risc is like alpha afaik.  they still sell it but it's going away
[00:17:32] <darkcmd> yeah
[00:17:33] <twincest> (VMS runs on Itanium too now)
[00:17:34] <Plaidrab> Itanium seems to be a massive failure though
[00:17:36] <tsoome> exactly
[00:17:45] <darkcmd> why didn't they just port it to x86?
[00:17:51] <darkcmd> I would have loved to see that
[00:18:05] <Plaidrab> Anyway, here's my build failure. I wonder if it's trying to mix compilers?
[00:18:06] <Plaidrab> http://pastebin.com/832863
[00:18:07] <twincest> because they expected Itanium to replace x86 in the high-end workstation and server market
[00:18:10] <tsoome> x86 just plain sucks:(
[00:18:13] <twincest> it was pitched similar to how SPARC is used
[00:18:29] <twincest> of course that never happened, and now they're screwed :)
[00:18:32] <darkcmd> x86 hardware although many feel is inferior its a lot easier to access
[00:18:52] <darkcmd> tsoome, why does x86 suck?
[00:19:06] <tsoome> because of fdisk, bios etc
[00:19:37] <andersmo> Backwards compatibility is king. Just ask IBM about mainframes. =)
[00:19:45] <darkcmd> yes, I would love to see some type of openfirmware implementation on x86
[00:20:01] <tsoome> it's not possible to call x86 as server platform if management card reboot will cause os to lock-up
[00:20:15] <dwc-> pa-risc and itanium are really really similar
[00:20:20] <darkcmd> management card reboot?
[00:20:35] <twincest> dwc: hm, Itanium was designed by Intel and HP together, wasn't it?
[00:20:42] <dwc-> which isn't too surprising since hp was deeply involved with designing it
[00:20:44] <dwc-> yes
[00:20:57] <darkcmd> itanium isn't compatible with x86 in any way?
[00:21:07] <twincest> darkcmd: it has x86 emulation similar to Alpha
[00:21:10] <dwc-> as the story goes, the itanium v1 was the intel people getting their way
[00:21:11] <twincest> darkcmd: no native compatibility
[00:21:14] <andersmo> itanic has some x86 emulation, but it's dog slow.
[00:21:26] <twincest> i heard the x86 emulation in Itanium 2 is better..
[00:21:27] <dwc-> the itanium v2 was when they listened to HP
[00:21:37] <andersmo> When people "upgrade" they expect improvements. =)
[00:21:59] <dwc-> itanium has built-in pa-risc emulation
[00:22:03] <dwc-> I believe
[00:22:24] <Plaidrab> I think I found my problem. CCPLUSPLUS is the c++ environ equiv to CC?
[00:22:40] <Auralis> no
[00:22:45] <dwc-> CXX
[00:22:46] <Stric> CXX
[00:22:53] <Plaidrab> Thanks
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[00:22:59] <Plaidrab> Lemme see what that changes
[00:23:23] <twincest> confusingly the sun c++ compiler is called CC though :)
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[00:25:07] <Plaidrab> not to me.
[00:26:29] <Plaidrab> It should be /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc, yes?
[00:26:42] <twincest> $CC?  yes
[00:28:22] <Plaidrab> $CXX
[00:28:37] <twincest> CXX should be set to the C++ compiler, /opt/SUNWspro/bin/CC
[00:28:45] <Auralis>  /opt/SUNWspro/bin/CC is $CXX
[00:28:48] <Plaidrab> Ah! There's my problem
[00:28:57] <twincest> < twincest> confusingly the sun c++ compiler is called CC though :)
[00:28:58] <twincest> :PP
[00:29:16] <Plaidrab> didn't notice the case.
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[00:29:46] <darkcmd> if itanium is failing, then what will hp be moving hp-ux to?
[00:29:55] <twincest> linux? :)
[00:30:03] <darkcmd> really?
[00:30:07] <twincest> no
[00:30:10] <twincest> i have no idea where hp-ux is going
[00:30:24] <Auralis> down the drain
[00:30:26] <Plaidrab> More than likely they'll circle the wagons on PARISC for a while and wait for the next "ITanium"
[00:31:52] <Plaidrab> Which could very well be Opteron or another INtel chip. Who knows. :)
[00:32:03] <darkcmd> probably not x86?
[00:32:56] <twincest> x86-64 maybe, x86 would be completely pointless
[00:33:02] <twincest> (since everyone is moving to x86-64)
[00:33:34] <Plaidrab> Everyone wants 64 bit.
[00:34:46] <darkcmd> so you guys see the industry moving mostly towards x86, phasing out other architectures?
[00:35:08] <twincest> i don't think i said that
[00:35:23] <darkcmd> oh
[00:35:27] <darkcmd> sorry :)
[00:35:34] <Plaidrab> I don't think so at all.
[00:36:05] <darkcmd> do you see the opposite?
[00:36:14] <Plaidrab> Though the moment someone show s me an effective E25K replacement that runs on Opteron, I reserve the right to reevaluate that position. :)
[00:36:35] <Plaidrab> darkcmd: It's a combination of perception and right tools for the job.
[00:36:43] <darkcmd> true
[00:36:54] <Plaidrab> There are still people who believe "No one ever got fired for buying IBM"
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[00:37:52] <darkcmd> You guys will laugh when I tell you what I found in a box of computer stuff I got for free.
[00:37:57] <darkcmd> I found an MO disk.
[00:38:20] <hali> Plaidrab: x4800 .. 32 socket
[00:38:40] <hali> domains and the kit
[00:38:46] <Auralis> MO rocks
[00:38:53] <Plaidrab> I'll say that's pretty damned close.
[00:39:08] <Plaidrab> What's a 25K max out at though? 96 cpus?
[00:39:20] <Auralis> 72 sockets, 144 cores
[00:39:36] <hali> touch and go on the core count
[00:39:37] <Auralis> 104 sockets with maxcpu boards
[00:39:50] <hali> 128 cores on the opteron...
[00:39:58] <Plaidrab> So it's close.
[00:40:11] <hali> i would "guess" the x4800 have separate IO ...
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[00:40:51] <Plaidrab> So I'll put myself in the "Look at it again in 12-18 months"
[00:41:39] <Plaidrab> I hear very good thing about Sun's Opteron boxes, particularly comapred to say, the v240s I'm using now. I dunno how IBM's boxes compare.
[00:41:59] <twincest> is the X4800 released yet?
[00:45:00] <Tpenta> there's a x4800?
[00:45:07] <Tpenta> i dont see any such beast
[00:45:28] <twincest> < hali> Plaidrab: x4800 .. 32 socket
[00:45:53] <Tpenta> I have no knowledge of such a beast
[00:46:40] <hali> i've only heard rumours from the dark cornes of st. clara
[00:46:47] <Tpenta> I would hope that we woudl not be so silly as to name an opteron box anything with 4800 in the name (given the existance of the sunfire 4800), but then again we did name an opteron box "Ultra"
[00:47:20] <hali> and the "blade" workstations ...
[00:47:22] <Plaidrab> Well, the "Ultras" have been the Workstation name for a while, I personally assumed that was the "logic" there
[00:47:29] <hali> branding is not sun's strong side :)
[00:47:46] <Plaidrab> Assuming they are still in SCA21, go there and complain.
[00:48:17] <Plaidrab> And try to remember the "We're going awaay from our very recognized Purple" phase while you're at it
[00:48:40] <Plaidrab> Searing the eyeballs Red and Yellow. What the (*& were they thinking
[00:51:52] <Plaidrab> And the SunBlades, I think someone was trying to dilute IBM's use of the term
[00:51:57] <Plaidrab> Naughty Marketing
[00:55:36] <Plaidrab> My opinions are merely my own, hardly educated and mostly called from the gut. Hense, most likely wrong. But I'm aware of that so it's okay. :)
[00:57:37] <Plaidrab> As to my thoughts on Sparcs, I just like 'em. No real rational reason. It's like likely chocolate.
[00:58:40] <kAv_> plaidrab : yes opteron is good though its the architecture that is stinky
[00:59:29] <Plaidrab> Well, PCs are gonna have to slam, very hard into a technology wall or Microsoft will have to have the corporate death penalty for that to ever, really, change.
[00:59:36] <kAv_> although sun and hp are making the biggest efforts to bring quality x86/64 servers to the datacentre
[01:00:00] <kAv_> well i dont know if you heard the latest that MS has pulled out of UEFI
[01:01:30] <kAv_> its probably down to intel how they gonna pass it to the industry
[01:01:44] <kAv_> i would imagine through tcg
[01:01:49] <Plaidrab> UEFI?
[01:02:08] <kAv_> yes the "new generation" of bios
[01:02:15] <Plaidrab> AH,
[01:02:20] <kAv_> basically an obp reborn
[01:02:42] <Plaidrab> The Intel Macs still use the Apple variety of OBP, don't they?
[01:02:49] <dvorak> they use EFI
[01:03:07] <kAv_> well efi/uefi same thing in rough
[01:03:34] <Plaidrab> Gotcha
[01:04:05] <kAv_> uefi is a group that work on expanding the efi spec.
[01:05:35] <Plaidrab> Another compiler question. I'm havinf something picth a fit. Maybe an environment thing again
[01:05:52] <Plaidrab> Error: Could not find a match for std::multimap<int, const XAP_NotebookDialog::Page*, std::less<int>, std::allocator<std::pair<const int, const XAP_NotebookDialog::Page*>>>::insert(std::pair<int, const XAP_NotebookDialog::Page*>) needed in XAP_DialogFactory::registerNotebookPage(int, const XAP_NotebookDialog::Page*).
[01:07:03] <Plaidrab> the CC line has a define in it for having the stdlib.h
[01:07:20] <twincest> Plaid: i suggest using CC -library=stlport4, to get a more standards compliant C++ standard library
[01:07:31] <twincest> the default one is fairly non-compliant, so that it's compatible with older code
[01:08:52] <Plaidrab> Hmm. Gotta figure out how to work that in.
[01:09:10] <twincest> CXXFLAGS='-xO4 -library=stlport4' (or whatever)
[01:09:30] <twincest> note that code compiled with -library=stlport4 is not binary compatible with code compiled without it
[01:09:45] <twincest> (i.e. you have to compile all C++ libraries and the program with that option)
[01:10:21] <Plaidrab> Yeek. Well. I guess I'll see if something breaks. I don't think any of my depends were using c++.
[01:12:44] <Plaidrab> This could get messy
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[01:19:55] <Plaidrab> That fixed that one. Thanks
[01:24:01] <Plaidrab> It'll be interestin.. heh .. to see if it doesn't work all the way down. I'll have to install parallel gtk and such. bleah
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[01:27:43] <twincest> GTK+ isn't C++
[01:28:06] <Auralis> the one good feature of gtk+
[01:28:13] <twincest> i wish they'd just have a studio flag day and make stlport the default.  the old library is becoming less and less useful for modern c++ code
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[01:43:53] <Plaidrab> I just am not sure if all of my depends are not gtkmm based. heh
[01:44:30] <Plaidrab> I need to rebuild them anyway.
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[01:50:29] <Plaidrab> Since I didn't have CXX or that flag set, I'm gonna redo.
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[02:23:15] <Axposf> hi all
[02:25:26] <Plaidrab> howdyhowdy
[02:25:51] <jamesd_> hi
[02:27:25] <Axposf> :)
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[02:51:50] <Plaidrab> wow. libc linker errors now. heh
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[02:55:35] <Error_404> someone correct me if I'm wrong... there's no way to loop through a C struct, no?
[02:55:45] <twincest> you mean the elements?  no
[02:55:54] <Error_404> drats.
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[03:24:11] <gdamore> anyone know if AHCI (SATA "standard" is supported in Nevada?)
[03:27:41] <jamesd_> depnds on the controller
[03:27:55] <jamesd_> thumper has sata drives
[03:28:06] <gdamore> really?  i though AHCI was, like OHCI, a universal standard for the SATA HBA.
[03:28:44] <gdamore> i know some controllers have SATA support, but what i want to know is whether there are only proprietrary chip drivers, or a common AHCI driver.
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[03:29:04] <gdamore> OpenGrok doesn't seem to think there is a common AHCI driver.
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[03:30:32] <gdamore> maybe this would be a good project for me. :-)
[03:30:56] * gdamore currently knows _jack_ about IDE/ATA.
[03:32:19] <kAv_> AHCI i though that was propriatary
[03:33:07] <kAv_> seem to remember intel hunting some guys that made some code for it
[03:33:08] <gdamore> nope.  you can download the spec.  hang on a sec.
[03:33:36] <dvorak> there is a licensing fee according to this: http://www.intel.com/technology/serialata/ahci.htm
[03:33:39] <gdamore> http://www.intel.com/technology/serialata/pdf/rev1_0.pdf
[03:34:42] <kAv_> !bug 6418168
[03:34:53] <kAv_> join the train
[03:35:04] <gdamore> wow.  i never heard about the licensing fee.
[03:36:19] <gdamore> kAv_: thanks.  it looks like someone filed a manpage bug too, so maybe there is hope it is actually going to get done soon?
[03:37:13] <kAv_> if you needs it ping the person working on it
[03:37:16] <kAv_> :>
[03:37:32] <gdamore> responsible engineer is not listed in the bug.
[03:37:51] <dvorak> well, it sounds like the licensing fee is probably only for people making hardware
[03:38:37] <gdamore> that would be nice.  even nicer if it only applies to people licensing a _core_, and not just implementing to the spec.
[03:39:40] <kAv_> dvorak : thats in an ideal world..
[03:40:18] <gdamore> certainly there is linux and netbsd code for AHCI.
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[03:41:39] <Stric> http://linux-ata.org/driver-status.html#ahci  seems to say good things about it
[03:41:48] <gisburn> Hey, "The Return II" is out
[03:42:02] <Auralis> gisburn: yes since tuesday
[03:42:17] <Auralis> movie central in canada runs the second half of the seson since monday
[03:42:56] <gisburn> Auralis: yeah, time to test my new multistream bittorrent client
[03:43:18] <Auralis> multistream?
[03:43:31] <twincest> what is AHCI?  like EHCI for ATA?
[03:43:45] <dvorak> seems to be
[03:43:57] <gisburn> Auralis: if multiple trackers offer the same file you can download them from multiple sources, effectively boosting the download bandwidth.
[03:44:16] <Auralis> gisburn: azurus does that
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[03:45:01] <gisburn> Auralis: so far channel is is fetching with 12kb/s, channel 2 with 9kb/s, channel 3 with 22kb/s, channel 4 with 4kb/s, channel 5 with 38kb/s ...
[03:45:03] <gisburn> Auralis: nope
[03:45:06] <Plaidrab> bugger. Enchant won't build now
[03:45:16] <Stric> twincest: for SATA, but yeah
[03:45:32] <dvorak> pretty sure azureus does that
[03:45:49] <gisburn> Auralis: azurus can AFAIK fetch files from multiple source using the same torrent, but not if the different torrents refer to the same file.
[03:45:55] <Auralis> gisburn: yes it does, azureus allows you to have multiple trackers per torrent and it doesnloads in parallel
[03:46:06] <jamesd_> cranberries
[03:46:06] <jamesd_> 19:23 <@kerouac> yeah, i need to eat something
[03:46:06] <jamesd_>  [19:25] [jamesd_(+ei)] [2:#solaris(+cnt)] [Act: 3]
[03:46:06] <jamesd_> [#solaris]
[03:46:20] <jamesd_> 00ps
[03:46:39] <gisburn> Auralis: "multiple trackers per torrent" is different from "multiple trackers for multiple torrents"
[03:46:44] <gisburn> Auralis: I am using the 2nd option
[03:46:54] <Auralis> yes ok, that is different
[03:46:58] <gisburn> download speed now at 139kb/s
[03:47:05] <gisburn> 140
[03:47:07] <gisburn> wheeeeee
[03:47:09] <gisburn> :-)
[03:47:36] <gisburn> madness
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[03:47:55] <Auralis> what client is that?
[03:48:20] <gisburn> mine
[03:48:26] <Auralis> ah
[03:50:48] <gisburn> 166
[03:51:07] * gisburn thinks about making a commercial product out of this... :-)
[03:52:31] <gisburn> another interesting feature may be multipathing to cheat around per-client bandwidth limits (e.g. one client acting as multiple clients on a multi-homed host)
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[03:54:26] <dvorak> I don't think there is much of a market for commercial bittorrent clients
[03:54:55] <Plaidrab> WoW makes nice use of it
[03:55:54] <Axposf> bye all,see you tomorrow :)
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[03:57:54] <Plaidrab> okay. this is oddish. when I'm using CC it doesn't seem to find libC. Any ideas?
[03:58:29] <Auralis> if you mean a static libc, thats normal, there isn't one in sol10+
[03:58:30] <twincest> what error(s)?
[03:58:38] <twincest> Auralis: i think he means libC, not libc
[03:58:43] <gisburn> Auralis: libC, AFAIK he means the libC runtime.
[03:58:55] <Plaidrab> Let me paste one or three
[03:59:09] <Plaidrab> Undefined                       first referenced
[03:59:09] <Plaidrab>  symbol                             in file
[03:59:09] <Plaidrab> atoi                                .libs/lookup.o  (symbol belongs to implicit dependency /lib/libc.so.1)
[03:59:22] <twincest> that looks like libc though, not libC
[03:59:34] <twincest> what command are you linking with?
[03:59:43] <gisburn> Plaidrab: are you linking a library in OS/Net ?
[04:00:00] <Plaidrab> /opt/SUNWspro/bin/CC -G -zdefs -nolib -hlibenchant_ispell.so -o .libs/libenchant_ispell.so   .libs/correct.o .libs/good.o .libs/hash.o .libs/ispell_checker.o .libs/lookup.o .libs/makedent.o .libs/tgood.o  -R/var/tmp/enchant-1.3.0/src/.libs -R/usr/local/lib -library=stlport4 -lgmodule-2.0 -lglib-2.0 ../../src/.libs/libenchant.so
[04:00:14] <dvorak> well...you probably want -lc if you're using -nolib
[04:00:25] <gisburn> Plaidrab: "-nolib" means you have to use -lc explicitly.
[04:00:26] <Plaidrab> I haven't done anything beyond the Nevada build and the SunDevPro download
[04:00:37] <Plaidrab> Okay. That's what the configure generated.
[04:00:42] * gisburn looses two channels
[04:00:49] <dvorak> what are you compiling?
[04:00:52] <Plaidrab> I'll add that to the CXXFLAGS?
[04:00:54] <Plaidrab> enchant
[04:01:01] <dvorak> which is?
[04:01:14] <Plaidrab> It's a Metaspellchecker.
[04:01:21] <dvorak> remove the -nolib
[04:01:36] <twincest> looks like libtool, who knows wtf it's doing
[04:01:36] <Plaidrab> http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/
[04:01:51] <dvorak> imo, you're asking for it if you're using libtool with suncc
[04:02:07] <dvorak> it barely works correctly with gcc
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[04:02:22] <Plaidrab> How do you suggest setting things up if you cannot use the configure scripts?
[04:03:50] <twincest> i'd suggest hacking makefile and/or libtool after configure runs
[04:03:54] <twincest> or else complain to the authors
[04:04:00] <dvorak> I'd either fix the configure script, or what twincest said
[04:04:42] <twincest> libtool is kind of funny, it's like a portable library tool that only works on linux
[04:04:49] <twincest> sort of pointless :)
[04:05:01] <Plaidrab> I woulda added a barely in there somewhere
[04:05:16] <dvorak> it generally works better than the lack of libtool
[04:05:20] <dvorak> but that's not saying a whole lot
[04:05:53] <twincest> i dunno, one program i work on generates shared objects for linux, bsd, solaris and hp-ux with no problems
[04:06:06] <twincest> not even much autoconf work, just a few flags
[04:06:23] <dvorak> yeah, but you presumably have access to all those platforms
[04:06:43] <twincest> yeah, and presumably the guy who wrote enchant doesn't have access to solaris
[04:06:46] <twincest> look at how that turned out :)
[04:06:52] <dvorak> or doesn't care
[04:07:01] <twincest> i don't believe any automated tool can help with portability if you don't at least test it
[04:07:16] <dvorak> well, obviously it can help.  it can't be perfect though
[04:07:47] <Plaidrab> I don't think Dom has access to Solaris, no. But he usually writes damned good code. Of course, that doesn't fix the who autochain
[04:08:13] <dvorak> well, like I said, you're asking for it using libtool/autoconf with sun cc
[04:08:28] <dvorak> I'd be very surprised if anyone pretends that sun cc is supported with either
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[04:09:19] <Auralis> it works normaly reasonably well with the occasionaly handweaving
[04:09:27] <dvorak> I'd be surprised if whatever little support either tool has for suncc has gotten more an a few hours of attention by someone willing to fix it in the past 5-10 years
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[04:18:06] <Plaidrab> I've mostly been using scons lately
[04:18:16] <Plaidrab> Dunno if it works on Solaris though
[04:18:22] <dvorak> it does
[04:18:44] <dvorak> I used to use scons, I finally gave up and went back to autoconf/automake/libtool
[04:19:52] <Plaidrab> Well, what little coding I do is little piddley stuff. Probably a lot easier to make it work. :)
[04:20:24] <dvorak> I have the same problem with both for the most part.  the docs suck.  the difference is that with the gnu tools there are plenty of examples for me to look at
[04:20:30] <Plaidrab> I sortafixed enchant. I told it to exclude all the spelling options. Of course, it's pretty much non-functional, but I can deal with that later
[04:20:52] <Plaidrab> When I was told about scons, someone gave me a real nice walkthru
[04:22:33] <Plaidrab> It was good enough that idiot me was able to build a linkable library, which was what I was up to
[04:23:17] <Plaidrab> But again, I'm doing little and non-complex stuff
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[05:12:39] <delewis> heh
[05:12:52] <delewis> apparently my Dell order is being 'processed' at the moment for a Sony VAIO laptop.
[05:12:55] * delewis chuckles
[05:13:00] <delewis> latest piece of spam to bit my mbox
[05:13:04] <delewis> s/bit/hit/
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[05:23:17] <noyb> hello friends
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[05:27:12] <noyb> for small typo errors in man pages, what is the correct procedure for fixing them?
[05:28:49] <noyb> I sent a patch to gman today, but I'm pretty sure that will get old quickly.
[05:30:18] <twincest> file bug
[05:33:53] <darkcmd> does sun make case badges?
[05:34:17] <galt> big ovoid ones, yeah
[05:34:31] <darkcmd> do you know of any third party ones
[05:35:40] <noyb> twincest: really?  That seems absurd when it's a microscopic typo.  see: man -s 3c getopt     and look for: "correct"  you'll see the hyphen '-' is misplaced.
[05:37:11] <twincest> noyb: every commit has to have a bug id
[05:38:28] <twincest> i guess you could find another problem, find a bug for that and then fix both in the same commit :)
[05:46:33] <noyb> twincest: clever piggy-back option...   probably more trouble in the future than just filing the specific bug.  :)
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[06:18:15] <dclarke> Merry Christmas
[06:19:42] <jamesd> hi dennis
[06:19:48] <dclarke> hey !
[06:19:57] <dclarke> I figured that no one was about
[06:20:27] <dclarke> so ... how are you doing ?
[06:20:28] <jamesd> just us poor people with no night life
[06:20:35] <dclarke> thats me too
[06:22:35] <dclarke> I'm curious .. what sort of traffic is your blog getting these days ?
[06:22:40] <dclarke> must be getting big
[06:23:00] <jamesd> 500-1000 views a day
[06:23:13] <dclarke> unique views ?
[06:23:56] <dclarke> those are pretty big numbers
[06:23:56] <jamesd> 200-300 on sundays
[06:24:03] <jamesd> yes
[06:24:21] <dclarke> that's about 20,000 to 30,000 a month
[06:24:26] <dclarke> conservatively
[06:24:33] <dclarke> geez .. thats big
[06:24:35] <jamesd> yeap
[06:24:51] <jamesd> 70,000 page views since aug 1
[06:25:26] <dclarke> so now I guess you need to ask yourself ... what's it doing for you ?
[06:25:29] <gisburn> jamesd: which blog is that ?
[06:25:42] <jamesd> uadmin.blogspot.com
[06:25:45] * dclarke waves to gisburn
[06:25:46] <gisburn> uhm
[06:26:02] <gisburn> Maybe 65000 hits are from my ksh93_wget test script.
[06:26:21] <jamesd> i'm doing okay about $100 every 3 months or so
[06:26:27] <dclarke> gisburn : refresh my memory .. you *are* the man that wrote the NCR SCSI drivers for Solaris 2.5.1 ?
[06:26:49] <gisburn> (BTW: The 65000 is just kiddng)
[06:27:10] <gisburn> dclarke: no. the only driver I worked on until now was for the MegaBACE PCI card
[06:27:22] <gisburn> dclarke: and I am not THAT old.
[06:27:29] <dclarke> okay .. had you confused with someone else
[06:27:32] <gisburn> 2.5.1 was released... when ?
[06:27:37] <jamesd> i know.. use google analytics
[06:27:41] <dclarke> back in 96
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[06:28:44] <gisburn> dclarke: I've been 21 then, Amiga hacker and SPARC's were the giant things my father was working with.
[06:29:07] <dclarke> gee .. thanks
[06:29:09] <gisburn> dclarke: If the driver was written by Reinhold Mainz...
[06:29:12] <dclarke> now I feel old
[06:33:27] <dclarke> one sec .. I have to swap CD-R media around
[06:33:38] <gisburn> what was the google thing where you could compare two keywords and their appearance in the internet ?
[06:34:31] <dclarke> never heard of that ...
[06:34:45] <jamesd> googlewars
[06:34:56] <gisburn> no
[06:35:01] <jamesd> or is googlefight
[06:35:30] <jbk> like word vs other_Word?
[06:35:56] <jamesd> yeap
[06:36:16] <gisburn> google trends
[06:36:40] <jamesd>  oh yeah they did do that
[06:37:43] <dclarke> hey james
[06:37:50] <dclarke> you play chess ?
[06:37:51] <jamesd> yeap
[06:37:54] <dclarke> at all ?
[06:37:55] <jamesd> yes
[06:37:57] <dclarke> yeah ?
[06:38:00] <dclarke> cool !
[06:38:09] <dclarke> got a chess board handy ? anywhere ?
[06:38:12] <gisburn> http://www.google.com/trends?q=ksh+shell%2C+bash+shell&ctab=0&geo=US&date=2006
[06:38:18] <gisburn> we're rising
[06:39:54] <dclarke> just a sec
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[07:00:09] <Error_404> yum, microwave burittos
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[07:02:52] <galt> how do you fit a tortilla around a microwave?!
[07:04:05] <whaq> Hm.. there's gotta be an official plan to make ZFS boot/root enabled and integrated to the automated install, right..?
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[07:05:29] <whaq> df -h
[07:06:01] <noyb> whaq: that's where most good ideas go...   to the place where we're waiting for someone else to do it because it makes so much sense that we assume it's going to happen any second now.
[07:08:59] <Error_404> true not just of open source
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[07:15:13] <noyb> Error_404: that's exactly what I mean
[07:15:37] <Error_404> what is?
[07:16:05] <noyb> not only open source, but "most good ideas" as I said.
[07:16:28] <noyb> I'll just nod next time.
[07:16:56] <Error_404> my irc client pooped itself, i didn't see the last thing you said, so
[07:16:58] <Error_404> :)
[07:17:41] <Error_404> I don't remember how many times i've been hanging around & someone's said "hey wouldn't it be cool if..." and then they'd come up with youtube or something 2 years before someone actually does it
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[08:14:26] <noyb> Error_404: I feel your pain...  irc network poopage.
[08:15:12] <KingDillyDilly> Someone at Freenode exposed an old bug. Steps were taken so it won't happen again.
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[08:16:23] <Error_404> KingDillyDilly: someone got sacked?
[08:16:52] <KingDillyDilly> No. Technical steps were taken, I think.
[08:18:23] <KingDillyDilly> I thought there was a Freenode-wide notice of how to be informed about it. I enabled sysop messages, or whatever, and received the information about 20 minutes ago.
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[08:20:33] <KingDillyDilly> I saw the notice on #Ubuntu.
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[09:18:45] <printk> hey, with these 6 SXCR disks, are there any that are not necessary ?
[09:23:04] <Error_404> nope
[09:26:32] <printk> k no prob, just checking :)
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[09:49:44] <bougie> hello :p
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[10:16:37] <Error_404> neat, someone's got a pdp8 listed on ebay
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[10:22:46] <Fish-> hello
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[10:40:57] <Error_404> you know, if i had $1000 to waste on stupid crap, i'd seriously consider buying that pdp8
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[10:49:53] <delewis> I'd rather have an PDP-11 :-)
[10:50:01] <delewis> that or a VAXen
[10:50:06] <Error_404> run unix III?
[10:50:30] <delewis> release 3 was never released outside of Bell Labs, AFAIK
[10:50:34] <delewis> only 5, 6, and 7
[10:50:48] <Error_404> i could've sworn it was 3 & 7 that you could download
[10:50:49] <delewis> and 7 also had an Interdata port
[10:50:54] <Error_404> but i'm almost certainly wrong
[10:50:59] <delewis> you can download 5, 6, 7
[10:51:03] <delewis> I was running them the other day :-)
[10:51:09] <Error_404> on what?
[10:51:25] <delewis> http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
[10:51:31] <Error_404> ahh
[10:51:42] <delewis> they have a variety of emulators, notably a PDP-11, VAX, and Interdata one.
[10:52:17] <delewis> the VAX emulator is good enough to run BSD 4.3 (Quasijarus) and OpenVMS
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[10:59:37] <Error_404> I wonder how someone would go about beginning to build a vintage computer collection
[10:59:47] <Error_404> eg, where to find pdp11 parts other than ebay
[11:01:45] <delewis> well, now, it's quite difficult
[11:01:52] <delewis> about 10 years ago, it would've been really easy
[11:02:06] <delewis> as that's when most people were beginning to take PDPs and VAXen out of production.
[11:02:42] <delewis> just as we're seeing with most of the UltraSPARC-II hardware, nowadays
[11:02:50] <delewis> E4500s are coming onto the market for pennies
[11:03:16] <dlg> i have friends still using vaxen in production
[11:03:29] <delewis> yes
[11:03:30] <delewis> but you
[11:03:31] <delewis> er
[11:03:41] <delewis> but it'd be difficult finding a PDP-11 still in production, though, I know of a few places that still have them.
[11:03:51] <dlg> that would be scary
[11:04:13] <delewis> several places are still running 30-year-old IBM System 360s and what not
[11:04:33] <delewis> that's widely-known, though thanks to IBM's PR department
[11:05:37] * kirma recalls seeing PDP-something (all-transistor model size of suitcase, which was that?) in production couple years ago
[11:06:04] <kirma> and he actually has Sun IPX in production use (loghost though)
[11:06:19] <delewis> one of the smaller PDP-11s, probably.
[11:06:40] <kirma> delewis: PDP-11s are too complex to be built from transistors.
[11:06:55] <delewis> oh, I overlooked that part :-)
[11:07:54] <kirma> I've got plenty of vintage computers over time, but got rid of most of them
[11:08:04] <kirma> literally worth millions when they were new
[11:08:40] <kirma> only one I would have wanted to have but missed getting by some 15 minutes was 500+ CPU Cray T3E
[11:09:10] <delewis> heh, I've seen a couple of T3Es on Ebay from time to time.
[11:09:15] <delewis> with the complementary SPARCstation 5
[11:09:19] <kirma> was on lunch when friend in supercomputing center told they were getting rid of it (it was still on top 50 during the time...)
[11:09:56] <kirma> Origin 2000 is is the most high-end system I've had at home :/
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[11:12:39] <kirma> 500+ Alphas would have had some serious computing capacity even these days, though.
[11:16:39] <delewis> you'd have to have a fairly decent air conditioning facility to handle that, though.
[11:16:50] <delewis> definitely more than what your average datacenter has
[11:17:19] <kirma> large models were water-cooled with two circuits
[11:17:42] <kirma> they're installing new system with power usage of like half a megawatt soon-ish
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[11:19:21] <kirma> afair T3E primary system had about 85 kW peak electric load
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[12:22:43] <noyb> just goofing around with blastwave gnuchess+xboard...  seems like it's broken.  it makes/tries to make illegal moves when starting a machine vs. machine game...
[12:23:13] <noyb> anyone else see that behaviour?
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[13:09:32] <kimc> good morning
[13:09:57] <jmcp> hello
[13:10:26] <kimc> tried to setup the manifest for starting postfix.. didn't work correctly and now it complains
[13:10:44] <kimc> even though I've removed all mentions of it
[13:11:23] <silk> you removed the manifest or just teh xml?
[13:11:47] <kimc> yes removed the manifest from /var/svc/manifest
[13:12:04] <silk> ok, but does svcs -a still list it?
[13:12:07] <kimc> removed the file from /etc/ init.d
[13:12:21] <jmcp> kimc: *what* complains?
[13:12:40] <kimc> svcadm enable postfix returns..
[13:12:50] <silk> children, wives.. bunches of things :)
[13:12:57] <kimc> yes  :)
[13:13:08] <kimc> # svcadm enable postfix
[13:13:08] <kimc> svcadm: Pattern 'postfix' matches multiple instances:
[13:13:08] <kimc>         svc:/network/postfix:default
[13:13:08] <kimc>         svc:/network/smtp:postfix
[13:13:16] <jmcp> silk: muahahahaha :)
[13:13:22] <kimc> really :)
[13:13:53] <silk> kimc, svcs -a | grep postfix
[13:14:11] <silk> that looks like you havee/had 2 manifests for the same thing
[13:14:17] * LeftWing muses as to which is more in the spirit of SMF ... network/smtp:postfix or network/postfix:default
[13:14:30] <kimc> it is running at the moment..
[13:14:45] <silk> network/smtp:postfix I would think
[13:14:59] <tsoome> xml files are for SMF db initialization, removing xml will not remove service...
[13:15:14] <kimc> # svcs -a|grep postfix
[13:15:15] <kimc> online         18:46:55 svc:/network/smtp:postfix
[13:15:15] <kimc> maintenance    18:46:55 svc:/network/postfix:default
[13:15:42] <kimc> yes will not remove it...
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[13:16:18] <kimc> any way to remove the service ?
[13:16:20] <silk> ok, so then one is busted and the other is running, check the logfiles for postfix:default... probably something about being unable to bind to the port
[13:16:35] <kimc> ok..
[13:16:44] * LeftWing sleeps. &
[13:17:50] <tsoome> svccfg is for db manipulation....
[13:18:27] <tsoome> and btw, why to have 2 services for postfix;)
[13:18:51] <nettie> Hi guys, I'm referring to slide 36 of http://jasonhoffman.org/JasonHoffman-EuroRailsConf.pdf -- This setup looks incredible, but I'm having troubles understanding the actual implementation. They share storage via iscsi targets of multiple x4500 boxes and then they build a raidz using multiple targets on the client machines?
[13:19:12] <kimc> yes the 2 services part is a mistake i made while trying to figure out how the svc system works..
[13:19:45] <tsoome> svccfg delete ...
[13:20:35] <kiivi> How does one specify for which hosts a sharenfs option in ZFS applies?
[13:20:41] <kimc> svccfg delete -f postfix ?
[13:20:44] <nettie> I'm wodnering what actually happens when a storage box goes down, all the rais volumes will be desynched right? Arent they worried about "resilvering" load and bandwidth usage? or is ZFS a smart enought to do a differential resync?
[13:20:57] <silk> kims, use the full fmri, postfix matches both
[13:21:08] <kimc> ok thanks
[13:21:15] <nettie> thanx in advance guys.
[13:22:05] <kimc> svccfg delete svc:/network/postfix:default
[13:22:16] <kimc> returns a shell..
[13:22:42] <tsoome> and you expected? ;)
[13:23:20] <kimc> or i was hoping :)
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[13:28:56] <jmcp> hoping for what?
[13:29:00] <jmcp> Doc: hi
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[13:32:07] <boro> hllo
[13:32:50] <boro> has solaris' apache support php included by default ?
[13:36:06] <jmcp> not that I am aware of
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[13:43:51] <boro> ah, pity
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[14:04:55] <kimc> postfix startup appears to be working correctly
[14:05:58] <kimc> have not added anything to /etc/init.d ..wonder if that creates a problem
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[14:12:28] <silk> rc scripts are not required if the service is now being managed via SMF
[14:12:57] * jmcp sleeps
[14:13:22] <silk> sounds like a plan
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[14:16:58] <kimc> great.. SMF is a new thing for me.. before this postfix effort i was sure it used some kind of balck magic to work..
[14:17:14] <kiivi> Is there any reason the installer could not just work with NFS-mounted ISO-images?
[14:18:39] <tsoome> use lofiadm, mount it and then share
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[14:19:12] <kiivi> tsoome: does not help very much if the installer does not support it.
[14:19:19] <tsoome> on server
[14:22:15] <kiivi> I can do the "mount the iso images and share them mounted" step quite trivially.
[14:24:03] <kiivi> oh well. should probably just install proper jumpstart.
[14:24:46] <tsoome> :)
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[14:39:59] <kimc> i'm seeing this linker error: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64  how can i set the environment to build 64-bit ?
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[14:42:19] <kimc> i'm linking against a 64-bit libssl
[14:42:21] <delewis> you're trying to link 32-bit and 64-bit objects
[14:42:28] <kimc> right
[14:42:48] <delewis> set the proper CFLAGS, depending on the compiler you're using
[14:42:55] <kimc> its the sun cc
[14:43:02] <delewis> for Sun Studio, you'll probably want -xarch=v9 and gcc is -m64
[14:43:29] <kimc> great lemme try that
[14:43:42] <delewis> oh, shit
[14:43:45] <delewis> I'm thinking SPARC
[14:43:50] <kimc> ahh..
[14:43:52] <delewis> for -xarch
[14:44:19] <kimc> ah right.. here goes
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[15:58:44] <_william_> hi all
[15:59:02] <Plaidrab> Howdy
[16:02:44] <_william_> hi Plaidrab
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[16:09:56] <dunc_> folks, do I have to anything special when doing an upgrade when I have some zfs partitions (none of them are system critical ones though)
[16:12:52] <jamesd> zpool export poolname if you like... but not a problem if you dont
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[16:15:39] <razrX_afk> jamesd: isn't that depending what dunc_ is upgrading from -> to ? (ZFS version 1,2 or 3 ) ??
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[16:16:15] <razrX> or is that an incorrect statement ?
[16:17:54] <jamesd> zfs is compatible with older versions
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[16:19:42] <razrX> ok, i read the -upgrade switch in zpool(1M) so that's why my question
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[16:21:47] <jamesd> razrX: you can upgrade but you can't downgrade
[16:21:49] * dunc_ is just going from snv_51 to snv_52
[16:22:42] <dunc_> i've never done an upgrade before but it's looking like i just split my / and swap mirrors and then upgrade onto original rootdisk ?
[16:22:57] <jamesd> exporting is just needed if you are installing a new version and just want to move the pool
[16:23:44] <jamesd> bbl
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[16:51:14] <whaq> dunc_, do you have zones running? I think those would need some care during OS upgrade.
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[17:05:33] <dunc_> whaq, no, not yet anyway
[17:06:11] * dunc_ struggles to understand how to do liveupgrade with svm root and chickens out :)
[17:08:09] <Plaidrab> %$^# Still getting linkage badness
[17:13:48] <quasi> dunc_: you could just break the mirror, upgrade and if it fails, boot from the old root mirror
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[17:15:18] <dunc_> quasi, yeah, I have broken the mirror, but I was reading 2 howtos, one with liveupgrade and one by just using normal upgrade procedure, and they seemed to conflict and I couldn't work it out
[17:15:35] <dunc_> so I'm going with normal upgrade, and I'll try liveupgrade next time :)
[17:16:19] <quasi> ;)
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[17:26:45] * whaq makes funny chicken noises..
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[17:29:46] <dunc_> whaq, :P
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[17:39:15] <dunc_> hmm, well the installer blew up just after I'd selected timezones and rebooted my box
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[17:46:56] <Plaidrab> If someone wants to play "Find the linker error" http://pastebin.com/833270
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[17:54:37] <PerterB> Plaidrab: add libfreetype.so.6 as an explicit dependancy? (you seem to have pretty much the rest of the system linked in there already ;)
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[17:57:44] <Plaidrab> How exactly should I do that?
[17:58:29] <PerterB> add -L/usr/sfw/lib -lfreetype.so.6 to the command line
[17:59:07] <PerterB> oh, and -R/usr/sfw/lib so the runtime linker can find it too
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[18:02:16] <nachox> cifs.central.sun.com is internal to sun right?
[18:02:32] <dunc_> hmm, even in text mode the installer blows up right after initial questioning
[18:02:46] <Plaidrab> should be.
[18:03:43] <PerterB> dunc_: "blows up"?
[18:04:10] <dunc_> i don't get much chance to see what happens, there's definately some  genunix:    messages
[18:04:16] <dunc_> anxd then the box is back at the BIOS
[18:05:01] <PerterB> tried disabling acpi support? (http://blogs.sun.com/danasblog/entry/configuring_solaris_acpi_at_boot)
[18:06:51] <dunc_> what's the - option to the kernel for options again? it's some capital letter is all I rememeber
[18:07:04] <dunc_> cheers
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[18:12:45] <dunc_> what happens when you need several options ? (the installer already has one to set install_media
[18:13:58] <dunc_> ah d'oh
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[18:19:54] <dunc_> it seems to be something to do with md PerterB, I saw a bit more that time
[18:20:33] <dunc_> i'm trying to upgrade my system, which was mirrored with svm, but I thought I'd split successfully
[18:20:57] <dunc_> maybe I haven't ?
[18:21:01] <PerterB> ah... maybe
[18:21:18] <dunc_> metastat definately showed nothing before reboot
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[18:22:49] <PerterB> and you took the rootdev entry out of /etc/system and references to metadisks out of vfstab? (although I can't see why that should crash the install CD so early)
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[18:23:22] <dunc_> i couldn't see anything in system, and defnately yes to the vfstab one
[18:23:32] <dunc_> me neither
[18:23:45] <PerterB> usually something like rootdev:/pseudo/md@0:0,0,blk
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[18:24:24] <dunc_> ah would metaroot c0d0s0 (or whatever) have done that for me?
[18:24:33] <dunc_> i definately booted onto plain partitions 1st
[18:24:34] <PerterB> quite possibly
[18:24:38] <dunc_> ok
[18:25:30] <PerterB> I didn't know you could use metaroot to go back to a non-meta device :)
[18:25:43] <dunc_> nor me until today
[18:26:08] <dunc_> removing one of the disks in case it's the 2nd one causing me problems
[18:26:23] <lasseoe> yeah I only found out about that as well recently
[18:26:31] <lasseoe> turns out it's even mentioned in the metaroot manpage :)
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[18:26:53] <PerterB> lasseoe: yeah :)
[18:27:15] <lasseoe> PerterB: you learn something new every day, almost :)
[18:27:32] <PerterB> yup
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[18:31:38] <dunc_> gah it does just the same
[18:31:55] <dunc_> going to try it with none of my svm disks in just to prove it
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[18:32:34] <PerterB> did you delete the metadbs too when you un-svmed the disks?
[18:32:55] <dunc_> i definitely metacleared some stuff
[18:33:01] <PerterB> still shouldn't make it crash even if they are there though
[18:33:10] <dunc_> indeed
[18:33:43] <PerterB> metaclear just deletes devices not metadbs (boot off the hard drive and run "metadb" to see if they are still there)
[18:35:04] <dunc_> okeydoke, i'll just see if it crashes this time with none of them connected
[18:35:35] <PerterB> pah...I just jumped through hoops to upgrade my PC's BIOS (why do they always need you to boot into DOS to flash the BIOS??) and it's actually worse... now 10/06 requires ACPI disabling too and still no working prtdiag
[18:36:16] <dwc> they don't -- a lot of boards have windows utilities
[18:36:18] <dunc_> oh dear :(
[18:36:34] <dwc> but, you saved your old bios image right? so now you can revert it
[18:36:44] <dunc_> ah ha, with no disks in it's ok
[18:36:52] <dunc_> looks like i do need to mess with metadb then
[18:37:33] <PerterB> dwc: windows would be even worse, I don't have any windows media anywhere
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[18:38:53] <PerterB> and not that much point reverting it, nevada already needed ACPI disabling with the old BIOS
[18:39:04] <dwc> well, then there's your answer -- they require you to boot into dos, because nobody writes bios flashers for solaris
[18:39:27] <dwc> and dos is easy
[18:40:29] <timelyx> so is snv_53 available?
[18:40:43] <quasi> timelyx: yep
[18:40:57] * timelyx should go to the office and start installing it
[18:41:00] <PerterB> they should make it OS-neutral... for a company capable of writing a BIOS you'd expect them to be able to knock out a standalone flash utility or build something into the BIOS that could just read an image file from CD or floppy (most BIOSes have space to hold two copies, so you load the new imagine into spare memory then reboot into that)
[18:41:23] <timelyx> i think the idea is that they don't want random apps to mess w/ the bios
[18:41:30] <timelyx> so they protect themselves after a certain point
[18:41:40] <timelyx> but i could be dead wrong. i certainly would rather my bios protected itself :)
[18:41:46] <quasi> PerterB: at least lenovo has gotten to the point of having flash downloadable as iso images
[18:42:00] <dunc_> oh cool
[18:42:02] <PerterB> cool
[18:42:24] <dwc> I don't want anyone dumping a cd/floppy into my computer and writing a non-bios image into my bios
[18:42:35] <dwc> and yes, some boards have two copies of the bios
[18:42:44] <dwc> those are mostly tweaker/gamer boards
[18:43:07] <PerterB> dwc: there are obvious ways to protect against accidental flashing
[18:43:28] <dwc> yea, like not doing it ;)
[18:43:38] <dunc_> what difference does it make whether someone could flash your bios after booting a dos floppy, compared to just having a cd that can do it?
[18:43:47] <dunc_> if someone wants to, they still will
[18:44:02] <dunc_> it's just that if u actually do want to, it would be much easier to have a bootable cd
[18:44:09] <dwc> because one way requires floppies/cdroms to be in the boot order
[18:44:28] <dwc> if the bios does it itself, it'd be doing it after POST, before booting
[18:45:45] <dwc> anyhow, I suppose if it was off by default, and you hit a key during POST to activate that mode, that wouldn't be so bad
[18:45:47] <dunc_> sorry are u talking about a BIOS utility to do it rather than a bootable cd here?
[18:45:58] <kiivi> Is it better to use two partitions or one partition and a few slices for UFS-root + ZFS for most things?
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[18:48:38] <dunc_> things are looking up PerterB, now I can't boot of the hd at all :)
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[18:49:34] <PerterB> score :)
[18:49:43] <dunc_> hehe
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[18:51:43] <dlg> anyone used the serial port on an x4200?
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[18:54:47] <PerterB> dlg: the one the ILOM I have
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[18:55:15] <dlg> how do you get to the serial port of the machine?
[18:55:48] <PerterB> didn't need to try that, sorry
[18:56:09] <dlg> ncurses
[18:56:48] <dunc_> lol
[18:57:14] <quasi> dlg: it is doable with ssh into the ilom
[18:57:19] <PerterB> it isn't something obvious like /dev/term/b?
[18:58:34] <quasi> dlg: you want to use it locally on the x4200?
[18:59:07] <dlg> my kernel is crashing
[18:59:07] <dlg> and i want to use the debugger on the serial port
[18:59:42] <quasi> ah. then ssh into the ilom and run it that way
[19:00:00] <dlg> i think stupid bios redirection is my borpen
[19:00:01] <quasi> you may need a grub option to point serial there
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[19:00:34] <quasi> I remember seeing an infodoc on sunsolve for the x4100 which is pretty similar
[19:00:48] <dlg> quasi: i have that sorted
[19:01:00] <dlg> its just tricking the lom into using the port properly thats my issue
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[19:01:35] <pikapika> hello
[19:03:52] <dunc_> lo
[19:11:34] <dunc_> ffs, it's just the same now I've been and got rid of the metadbs
[19:12:01] <dunc_> i'm gonna have to really remove them with dd and /dev/zero at this rate I reckon
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[19:16:57] <gdamore> hi *
[19:17:29] <gdamore> so i think i've discovered an interesting regression.
[19:18:40] <richlowe> same thing as yesterday?
[19:19:01] <dunc_> praise be, finally got the installer to be happy with me having a disk in
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[19:23:05] <dunc_> hmm, not getting a chance to upgrade though
[19:23:40] <Plaidrab> Well, hmm. Adding the -l -L and -R did not fix it
[19:24:31] <gdamore> richlowe: yes.  except it works with s10u2. :-)
[19:24:49] <gdamore> sort of.  the onboard rge ports aren't recognized, because they have a "newer" device id
[19:25:32] <gdamore> burning a dvd now, so i can try to install via USB dvd drive, instead of net boot.
[19:27:04] <richlowe> gdamore: Hm.
[19:27:15] <richlowe> gdamore: I don't think you're looking at 6323525.
[19:27:22] <gdamore> i don't think so either.
[19:27:25] <gdamore> i think it is new.
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[19:28:24] <richlowe> gdamore: let me guess, it falls over before you have a dump device too? :)
[19:28:31] <gdamore> yep.
[19:28:41] <richlowe> I'm so glad someone else has that kind of luck, too :)
[19:28:44] <gdamore> well, or so i assume.  its a network boot, so there is no dump device.
[19:28:57] <gdamore> i need to debug it with kmdb later.
[19:29:31] * gdamore is tempted to ship a board to Sun so the x86 guys can debug it. :-)
[19:29:49] <gdamore> brekky time.  bbiab
[19:29:50] <timelyx> heh
[19:31:32] <dunc_> PerterB, it seems it really was metadbs breaking things then
[19:32:07] <PerterB> I'd say that's a bug then
[19:32:25] <dunc_> that's what I thought too
[19:34:27] <dunc_> after install, i'll set up a metadevice for my swap only to start with, and then reboot the install cd to see if i can recreate
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[20:14:48] <dunc_> why does the login banner for sol.exp. always have the year down as 2007 ?
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[20:32:28] <dunc_> PerterB, ok, I succesfully installed from scratch, I booted, and set up one device (d1) with one submirror, then rebooted onto install cd again, and it goes boom in the same way
[20:33:20] <dunc_> didn't actually try and mount it or use it, just created half of a mirror
[20:34:25] <Auralis> dunc: the october 2007 is the estimated release date of the finished solaris 11
[20:35:44] <richlowe> I'm not sure if it's estimated, or just fictional.
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[20:38:59] <dunc_> oh really lol
[20:39:12] <dunc_> is it that hard to change that bit between builds?
[20:39:15] <dunc_> :)
[20:39:37] <twincest> i think it's less of an estimate and more of a placeholder at this point
[20:39:43] <twincest> at least that's what someone said (tpenta iirc)
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[20:41:01] <lasseoe> It'll be out when it's good and ready, hope they don't rush it at any point.
[20:47:19] <quasi> maybe once they have zfs boot on both sparc and x86
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[20:48:27] <dunc_> that would be a good time i reckon yeah
[20:48:56] <lasseoe> hm I thought zfs root was slated for U4, summer 2007
[20:49:30] <quasi> I heard u5
[20:49:34] <dunc_> so does anyone else think that if u have any existing metadbs on a disk when you boot the install cd, the box crashes, counts as a bug?
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[21:03:57] <sickness> evening all
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[21:21:47] <dunc_> just me then eh?
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[21:37:29] <Plaidrab> should I have libxml2 in /usr/sfw/*
[21:41:40] <richlowe> /usr/lib/
[21:49:55] <Error_404> heh
[21:50:13] <Error_404> apple's going to submit OSX 10.5 to the open group for SUS03 certification
[21:51:20] <delewis> scary.
[21:51:40] <delewis> it's been a short-time since OS X received POSIX AIO
[21:51:50] <Error_404> is aix unix03?
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[21:55:48] <Plaidrab> richlowe: Thanks. du found it before I checked back here. it looks like the configure tools just aint none too bright when run against Solaris
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[22:19:31] <jbk> heh..
[22:19:41] <jbk> i was just on the phone w/ a coworker talking about aio issues in s10
[22:21:15] * Gman wonders who designed the nvidia x server settings dialog
[22:22:31] <g4lt-U60> gman emus on acid, IIRC
[22:23:02] <Gman> g4lt-U60, :)
[22:23:08] <jbk> haha
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[22:51:17] <_william_> gn
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[23:14:54] <kimc> the zone configuration docs say you must run the sysidtool commands before the zone is started the first time
[23:15:19] <kimc> so what if i booted the zone.. can i still run the configuration commands ?
[23:15:36] <richlowe> sysidtool runs on the zone console on first boot.
[23:15:42] <richlowe> zlogin -C <thatzone> and answer the questions
[23:16:12] <kimc> thanks richlowe
[23:16:27] <lasseoe> doesn't zoneadm -z <zone> ready    run the sysidtool ?
[23:17:15] <kimc> # zlogin -C zonester
[23:17:15] <kimc> [Connected to zone 'zonester' console]
[23:17:37] <kimc> now there is a shell prompt, is this correct ?
[23:17:46] <richlowe> You should have sysidtool.
[23:17:49] <richlowe> Hm.
[23:18:24] <kimc> looks like i'm inside the zone [so to speak]
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[23:18:47] <richlowe> Yeah, the first time the zone boots it should do the manifest import, then have sysidtool running on the zone console.
[23:18:56] <richlowe> ... I guess maybe it doesn't keep attempting that on subsequent boots until you answer?
[23:19:30] <kimc> i last ran: zoneadm -z zonester install
[23:20:34] <kimc> it indicated: Installation of <108> packages was skipped.
[23:21:01] <kimc> all SUNWgnome-*
[23:21:15] <kimc> Installation of these packages generated warnings:
[23:22:15] <kimc> then ~40 pkg names, such as 'SUNWftpr SUNWslpr SUNWsmmgr' and more..
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[23:23:45] <kimc> The file </zones/zone_roots/zonester/root/var/sadm/system/logs/install_log> contains a log of the zone installation.
[23:24:06] <kimc> [returned a shell]
[23:24:08] <lasseoe> sounds like there's something wrong with your system
[23:24:24] <kimc> hmm..
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[23:24:45] <kimc> its snv_49
[23:25:58] <kimc> don't know why it didn't run sysidtool
[23:26:20] <lasseoe> you shouldn't get that many package errors and warnings
[23:28:49] <kimc> its easy to back out the zone
[23:31:30] <delewis> Error_404, AIX 5.3 was the first UNIX2003-compliant operating system
[23:33:12] <richlowe> You get a fair chunk of zone install errors on a BFU'd system (files not matching packaging data).  But nothing particularly bad happens as a result.
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[23:40:01] <kimc> ok the zone is uninstalled
[23:40:53] <kimc> the instructions i was using didn't mention about running the sysidtool first.. maybe thats what hosed it
[23:41:42] <kimc> i was following: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/faq/#sa_create
[23:42:47] <kimc> from Section 4: Q: How do I create a zone?
[23:43:02] <kimc> A: what i did..
[23:45:03] <kimc> this information is uhh.. not exactly correct
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[23:49:18] <kimc> # zoneadm -z zonester uninstall
[23:49:18] <kimc> zoneadm: zone 'zonester': is already in state 'configured'.
[23:50:24] <kimc> hmm.. wonder how i can get it in state 'uninstalled'
[23:55:05] <delewis> kimc, to uninstall a zone, you must first install it
[23:55:19] <delewis> if it is in a 'configured' state then clearly you have not installed the zone
[23:55:32] <kimc> it was installed with some problems so i wanted to begin again
[23:55:35] <delewis> if you wish to delete any trace of the zone (it's configuration) zonecfg -z delete <zonename>
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[23:56:33] <kimc> right thanks, thats got it
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[23:59:43] <kimc> there is a lot of documentation on zones and setting up.. hard to know where to begin
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