[00:00:11] <twincest> you can disable forced flushing at the client end usually.. but that might not be a good idea
[00:01:26] <richlowe> or you can disable the ZIL, though that removes the consistency guarantees NFS wants (as does ufs and the write cache, as I understand it)
[00:02:34] <qdk> what would be a good approach to iSCSI device -> Solaris cluster -> "something" -> webfarm -> users?
[00:03:51] <qdk> my current setup is iSCSI -> Windows -> NFs -> BSD-farm -> users, and im certainly not happy about the windows/NTFS part.
[00:04:16] <quasi> qdk: what type of work does the webfarm need to do?
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[00:05:02] <quasi> iSCSI -> s10 -> NFS is doable
[00:05:03] <qdk> its only job is to provide correct access to the correct user data (just sharing files using webdav and scripts).
[00:06:37] <quasi> so read and write
[00:07:46] <qdk> yes, and the speed requirements isnt that great either.
[00:07:55] <quasi> I'd probably also load test changing the bsd farm to solaris as well - the nfs on solaris is pretty good
[00:08:14] <qdk> if i could just do 100mbit from each server to the networkstorage it would be fine.
[00:08:41] <qdk> quasi: ok, what does Solaris offer similar to BSDs CARP devices?
[00:09:11] <qdk> CARP is the only thing keeping the BSDs on the webfarm.
[00:09:31] <Stric> where CARP is.. what?
[00:09:50] <qdk> each of my webfarm units act as a load balancer and working horse.
[00:10:01] <qdk> Stric: virtual shared IP.
[00:10:06] <Stric> ok
[00:10:15] <quasi> multipathing and link aggregation are in solaris itself
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[00:10:41] <quasi> the virtual ips could also be done with whackamole
[00:11:03] <qdk> quasi: multipathing for the iSCSI?
[00:11:27] <quasi> ipmp
[00:12:32] <qdk> quasi: well i know CARP and it extremely efficient.... i have an OpenBSD redundant BGP/router/fw setup, and i dont even losses ICMP packets when switching back and forth between master and slave.
[00:13:01] <qdk> quasi: dont know what that is.
[00:13:19] <qdk> (doing wiki now)
[00:14:32] <qdk> quasi: ok, IPMP sounds better than CARP due to the slave nics feature.
[00:15:26] <quasi> qdk: yeah, it has worked well for me
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[00:15:32] <qdk> does Solaris do bonding/teaming/trunking too?
[00:15:42] <quasi> yes
[00:15:56] <quasi> dladm is the command
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[00:17:09] <quasi> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4554 has the ipmp docs and iirc it has the link aggregation as well, but my network is too slow to check at the moment
[00:18:27] <qdk> quasi: can they work together.. like if i have 4 nics... trunking them in pairs an them have a master and a slave and in the same time have virtual IPs between several units?
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[00:19:08] <qdk> quasi: thx for that link.
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[00:21:11] <quasi> I'm not sure if you can do both - the link aggregation is new in s10
[00:21:58] <qdk> well the sharing of the V-IP between several units is the important part, i can always change nic manually.
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[00:26:58] <quasi> ah, here it is - http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4554/6maoq01nk?a=view
[00:27:14] <quasi> Administering Link Aggregations
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[00:29:15] <qdk> quasi: great, thx... ill read up on that.
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[00:29:45] <Aghaster> A simple question, are OpenSolaris: Community releases built with GCC or Sun Studio ?
[00:30:02] <quasi> Aghaster: Sun Studio 11
[00:30:06] <Aghaster> k
[00:30:24] <Aghaster> I just read kernels compiled with sun studio were faster
[00:30:29] <quasi> why choose a suboptimal compiler? ;)
[00:30:43] <quasi> exactly
[00:30:52] <Auralis> not only the kernelis faster, studio produces generale significantly faster code
[00:31:09] <qdk> quasi: about the FS and NFS issue, i guess NFS is the only decent protocol to make a shared filesystem over a LAN, right?
[00:31:20] <Aghaster> looks interesting. I'm a linuxian interested in making the switch to solaris...
[00:31:38] <quasi> qdk: there are others like qfs if you have $$ to spend
[00:32:08] <quasi> and others again if you're slightly insane ;)
[00:32:13] <qdk> quasi: depends on how much, but i guess it expensive?
[00:32:20] <qdk> hehe
[00:32:59] <Auralis> QFS is big bucks
[00:33:13] <quasi> yeah, but also high performance
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[00:33:36] <Aghaster> http://www.sun.com/2006-1113/feature/index.jsp
[00:33:37] <Aghaster> !
[00:33:43] <Aghaster> that's some interesting news
[00:33:52] <_william_> gn
[00:33:53] <qdk> quasi: well i have at least 1Gbit connection between all units, so a NFS should provide me with at least a part 5, right?
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[00:34:14] <Aghaster> not even under CDDL!
[00:34:34] <quasi> Aghaster: not exactly news anymore
[00:35:00] <Aghaster> yeah, well, I missed that
[00:35:05] <quasi> qdk: one trick to speed up nfs could be cachefs if you have bits that are read only
[00:35:07] <Aghaster> it is still quite recent
[00:35:46] <quasi> Aghaster: I'm sure you must bethe only one here to miss it ;)
[00:35:57] <qdk> quasi: the data is constantly being updated using rsync tools, so no RO.
[00:36:18] <stevel> no matter, it's good news whether it's recent or old
[00:36:49] <qdk> quasi: but i have above 100mbit to the windows NFS/NTFS share, and i would expect Solaris to do a someway better job, though its not that important.
[00:39:13] <quasi> qdk: sure, keeping up with 100mbit should be a walk in the park ;)
[00:40:51] <quasi> stevel: that remains to be seen ... or at least depending on your definition of good ;)
[00:41:12] <stevel> quasi: why would it be bad?
[00:41:21] <stevel> besides the obvious GPL pressure it places on OpenSolaris
[00:41:56] <quasi> that's exactly it
[00:42:09] <quasi> "too little too late"
[00:42:26] <stevel> (speaking for myself here, not for the OpenSolaris team)
[00:42:35] <stevel> i just don't see any possible way for OpenSolaris to be GPL'd
[00:42:41] <richlowe> it's not the choices of licensing that would be problematic.
[00:42:46] * quasi hopes not
[00:42:49] <richlowe> it's the gigantic fucking argument any thought of switching would cause.
[00:43:18] <Auralis> cddl is just fine, thank you very much
[00:44:02] <quasi> and from my knowledge of Roy, he'd personally beat up any CAB member daring to suggest gpl ;)
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[00:47:10] <stevel> richlowe: odd. my nightly build failed
[00:47:16] <stevel> failed to compile script plockstat.d
[00:47:59] <richlowe> I blame sasha.
[00:48:10] <richlowe> actually, no, I stick with what the email said.
[00:48:10] <stevel> sure. i'll blame him too
[00:48:18] <stevel> don't make me kick you again
[00:48:20] <stevel> ;-)
[00:48:36] <stevel> don't hate me because i have a nice build machine
[00:49:21] <Aghaster> arg... I installed lilo on the MBR, but it installed it on my secondary HD MBR!
[00:51:10] <richlowe> stevel: Hm, I see nothing in that area that changed recently.
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[00:51:57] <stevel> nor do i
[00:52:16] <stevel> but it def. fails to build for me
[00:52:22] <richlowe> Hm, hang on.
[00:52:24] <stevel> if i bldenv, and go to usr/src/lib/libc and do a dmake install
[00:52:28] <richlowe> I may have a decent guess.
[00:52:35] <qdk> quasi: great... last question... what FS in Solaris would be best when its only task is to r/w data from NFS?
[00:53:18] <stevel> interesting
[00:53:23] <stevel> it's trying to use /usr/lib/dtrace/procfs.d
[00:53:30] <richlowe> It does.
[00:53:43] <richlowe> dtrace loads *all* the /usr/lib/dtrace bits
[00:53:44] <stevel> but on zday it looks like:
[00:53:50] <stevel> inline char SONPROC = @SWAIT@;
[00:53:53] <stevel> (line 53)
[00:53:56] <stevel> it's barfing on the @
[00:54:05] <richlowe> Yeah, that's from procfs.d.in
[00:54:08] * stevel is going to blame sasha
[00:54:22] <stevel> looks like something in cpu-caps' build isn't right
[00:54:22] <richlowe> that's going to blow out every build you do though.
[00:54:33] <stevel> and afaik, nobody has built on it since the machine was bfu'd
[00:54:46] <richlowe> are recent caps bits available?
[00:54:54] <stevel> these bits are from wednesday
[00:54:59] * stevel isn't sure what's available on os.o
[00:55:28] <richlowe> my guess would be the dtrace stuff he added is bogus.
[00:55:33] <richlowe> his builds/tests would work just fine.
[00:55:37] <richlowe> right up until the 2nd build.
[00:55:46] <richlowe> (can you tell I've broken this stuff before, too?) :)
[00:56:15] <stevel> you seem awfully familiar with it ;-)
[00:56:20] <stevel> i'll send sasha a note
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[01:00:22] <richlowe> stevel: if you have root and want a quick fix, do the obvious :)
[01:00:47] <stevel> :-) i suppose i could to get the closed-bins up
[01:00:51] <stevel> how badly do you need them?
[01:01:00] <richlowe> Nah, not badly, I just noticed them missing.
[01:01:10] <richlowe> I'm kinda nervous about building on a non-canonical machine though.
[01:01:23] <richlowe> given that system headers can leak into the build environment.
[01:01:23] <stevel> 'k. i'll wait for sasha to fix it, i don't want to get in his way if he logs in while i have it changed
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[01:01:47] <stevel> yeah, zday doesn't normally run non-gate bits
[01:01:55] <stevel> but we thought it would be a good test for the cpu-caps project
[01:02:03] <stevel> i'll spin up a closed-bins delivery on a nother build machine
[01:02:10] <richlowe> Oh yeah, it'd be a good test.
[01:02:19] <richlowe> akolb: (you should totally cap stevel down to a couple of %)
[01:02:49] <stevel> note to self: you should totally kick richlowe
[01:03:07] <richlowe> stevel: hey, a test that self-notifies on success.
[01:03:10] <richlowe> stevel: I call that forward thinking.
[01:03:15] <stevel> ;-)
[01:04:02] <richlowe> stevel: and if wschk parses putback -n, it probably needs to go on the tools list.
[01:04:06] <richlowe> assuming it's actually used...
[01:04:36] <stevel> yeah, i can't figure out if it is or not. i pinged val and danek, i assume i'll hear back when we get back to work
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[01:05:20] <richlowe> stevel: even if it's not, it'd be nice to have.
[01:06:05] <stevel> sure, the Perl modules that parse Teamware/SCCS/etc. might be handy
[01:06:14] <stevel> i'll ping alanbur too, since i think he wrote them originally
[01:06:39] <richlowe> the impression I got is that it implemented a bunch of stuff that maybe a better reference for the gate hooks than wx.
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[01:08:00] <Tpent1> morning folks
[01:08:04] <Tpent1> good thankgiving?
[01:08:21] <Tpent1> stevel: i should have the b53 stuff shortly (set it building before i left last night)
[01:09:25] <stevel> tpent1: yup, still stuffed :)
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[01:09:41] <stevel> i'm finally getting around to captioning my photos from seoul
[01:11:25] <jamesd> stevel, did you capture their true soul in them?
[01:11:33] <stevel> sucked it straight out of 'em
[01:13:48] <dclarke> good evening
[01:14:07] <Tpent1> stuffed?
[01:14:17] <dclarke> and how !
[01:14:18] <jamesd> hi dennis
[01:14:28] <dclarke> its the holiday season up here
[01:14:39] <dclarke> down there too .. but the eating starts early
[01:14:47] <dclarke> chocolate truffles .. rich cheeses
[01:14:58] <dclarke> gotta fatten up for winter
[01:15:07] * dclarke waves to jamesd
[01:15:10] <Tpent1> ahhh, got it, i was reading teh answer to the wrong statement
[01:15:43] <dclarke> oh .. you asked "stuffed?"
[01:15:54] <dclarke> and I replied ... "big time" !
[01:15:59] <Tpent1> i also used teh word stuff in my other statement about the b53 stuff
[01:16:04] <dclarke> tis the season and all that
[01:16:07] <Tpent1> :)
[01:16:10] <dclarke> oh ..
[01:16:16] <dclarke> I have b52 here
[01:16:18] <richlowe> 'tis not the season for another month or so.
[01:16:22] <dclarke> running fine thus far
[01:16:29] <dclarke> it tis the season
[01:16:35] <dclarke> and its gets cold here
[01:16:40] <richlowe> dclarke: it's always cold there :)
[01:16:41] <dclarke> its a damp cold too
[01:16:42] <Tpent1> !seen dduvall
[01:16:44] <Drone> dduvall is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Tue 21 Nov 2006 01:23 GMT, saying 'dduvall leaves for train'.
[01:16:57] <stevel> dduvall is probably on holiday
[01:17:06] <Tpent1> yea
[01:17:15] <Tpent1> he just responded to the RTI mail thsi morning
[01:17:26] <stevel> yeah saw that
[01:17:31] * stevel was hoping it would go into 54
[01:17:54] <dclarke> I need to write an update to my non-debug build article
[01:18:14] <dclarke> to take into consideration the disappearance of the tarball drops for source
[01:18:32] <stevel> source tarballs are still delivered for build synchronised deliveries
[01:18:41] <dclarke> oh ?
[01:18:51] <dclarke> ummm .. gee .. I better go look
[01:20:33] <dclarke> well golly gee : http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b53/
[01:20:37] <dclarke> there it is ...
[01:20:44] <dclarke> that makes life easy
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[01:21:36] <dclarke> okay .. I will download the source to snv_b53
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[01:22:01] <dclarke> then I'll go grepping for a spellign error in the ZFS code that I want to file a bug rep about
[01:23:06] <stevel> spelling ;)
[01:23:26] <dclarke> I say that .. it seemed so apropo
[01:23:32] <dclarke> i saw that
[01:23:42] <dclarke> geez .. the old type 5c is rusty today
[01:24:50] <dclarke> I have a question for you
[01:25:01] * dclarke thinks .. for anyone actually
[01:25:22] <dclarke> what is the least amount of RAM you have seen Solaris 10 run with ?
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[01:25:48] <jamesd> 65MB ;-p
[01:25:57] <jamesd> er 64
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[01:26:42] <dclarke> I may try 32MB
[01:26:49] <dclarke> just for a lark
[01:27:09] <dclarke> in theory the OS should start up and swap right away
[01:27:20] <dclarke> the kernel should load
[01:27:34] <dclarke> I may get a few services going .. not much
[01:27:38] <dclarke> very few drivers
[01:28:51] <dclarke> Tpent1: non-debug files are missing from the b53 dl page ... any thoughts ?
[01:29:22] <Tpent1> i only started the build last night, i was just about to do something about them
[01:29:28] *** Tpent1 is now known as Tpenta
[01:29:39] <Tpenta> i've had a damnably busy week
[01:29:48] <dclarke> np
[01:29:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[01:29:55] <dclarke> just was curious
[01:30:13] <dclarke> I no long see a reason for building a debug build
[01:30:20] <dclarke> no loger
[01:30:29] <dclarke> no longer can type either
[01:30:33] <dclarke> :-\
[01:31:16] <dclarke> Tpenta: there is a very simple command that allows mdb to show me memory usage in a detailed way .. but I can not recall it
[01:31:31] <dclarke> Tpenta: could you refresh my memory ?
[01:31:35] <Tpenta> ::kmastat ?
[01:31:40] <dclarke> bingo
[01:31:46] <dclarke> that's it
[01:32:04] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/12
[01:32:09] <dclarke> I was using memstat
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[01:33:23] * dclarke waves at derek
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[01:35:29] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/12
[01:35:36] <dclarke> there .. thats up dated
[01:36:05] <Tpenta> damn, i ran out of disk on my sparc build
[01:36:11] <Tpenta> 5 more hours away now :(
[01:36:21] <dclarke> that suks
[01:36:35] <dclarke> I hate it when some damn thing like that chews up my life
[01:36:36] <stevel> tpenta: use my build machine
[01:36:42] <Tpenta> looks like the x86 ones finished, i just need to check te file list and I'll put them up
[01:36:48] <Tpenta> what is your machine?
[01:36:51] <stevel> stomper.sfbay
[01:36:55] <Tpenta> i have a 12 way 4800
[01:36:57] <dclarke> I waiting for Sparc actually
[01:37:09] <stevel> stomper is a V890 w/ 8 dual core US-IV's
[01:37:18] <stevel> and 32GB
[01:37:20] <dclarke> damn .. well .. I don't have anything that fast
[01:37:26] <Tpenta> I'm all set up on this machine, I'll just kick it off again
[01:37:33] <stevel> k
[01:37:42] <dclarke> with 8GB of disk space hopefully
[01:37:45] <stevel> well in the future, if you need a machine, you can use that
[01:37:52] <stevel> and zfs clone my workspaces :)
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[01:38:04] <Tpenta> the problem steve is taht I'd have to clobber your /opt/onbld
[01:38:08] <stevel> so no bringover
[01:38:26] <stevel> you can't use -t?
[01:38:36] <stevel> i think i use -t
[01:38:37] <Tpenta> the whole process gets much simpler when nightly leaves debug/non-debug protos around
[01:38:46] <Tpenta> stevel, i probably could
[01:38:50] <Tpenta> but i dont run nightly
[01:38:56] <stevel> so i don't think i use /opt/onbld/nightly
[01:39:04] <Tpenta> i run a script that does a subset of nightly and a few seperate things
[01:39:11] <richlowe> stevel: nightly -t does use /opt/onbld/nightly
[01:39:20] <richlowe> stevel: nightly doesn't re-exec itself or any of those smarts.
[01:39:31] <Tpenta> when /ws/onnv-clone gets debug/non-debug protos hanging around, I knock about 3.5 hours off my stuff
[01:39:34] <stevel> good point
[01:39:39] <stevel> tpenta: likewise :-)
[01:39:44] <richlowe> stevel: I'd bet you're using the onnv-tools onbld, rather than a local one though.
[01:39:46] * stevel is looking forward to that
[01:39:57] <stevel> richlowe: probably. i forget, i haven't looked at my delivery scripts in ages
[01:40:09] <richlowe> well now I'm just *filled* with confidence :)
[01:40:19] <stevel> feeling particularly snarky today, are you? ;-)
[01:40:49] <Tpenta> the thing is that my stuff installs three more files into /opt/onbld: bin/encumbered-bins, bin/bindrop and env/encumbered-binaries
[01:41:06] <richlowe> if they aren't picked up from -t, that's a bug and they should be.
[01:41:11] <richlowe> so you could call this testing...
[01:41:17] <Tpenta> the encumbered-binaries env file expects a few things in the environment so it can deal with multiple types of build and target from the same tree
[01:41:27] <richlowe> assuming you have all this wrapped up somehow.
[01:41:55] <darkcmd> what are encumbered-binaries ?
[01:42:11] <Tpenta> the binaries that we don't have permission to release the source to
[01:42:13] <stevel> darkcmd: closed-binaries... binaries that for legal reasons, can't be open sourced
[01:42:16] <richlowe> stevel: just my usual jovial self.
[01:42:17] <stevel> but are freely redistributable
[01:42:20] <stevel> richlowe: :-)
[01:42:28] <darkcmd> what are some examples so that I may know
[01:42:34] <Tpenta> stevel: did I see something about a new driver going into the open tree in the last week or two?
[01:42:36] * richlowe has been putting yet more thought into wx.
[01:42:45] <stevel> tpenta: which driver?
[01:42:54] <richlowe> subversion has kind of broken my thinking in that regard.
[01:42:56] * stevel recalls the new atheros driver, some sound fixes, and the N2 stuff
[01:43:01] <Tpenta> cant remember now, guess i'll see when i compare my file list against yours
[01:43:14] <richlowe> I don't think anything has moved from closed/
[01:43:16] <richlowe> but N2 added a few.
[01:43:35] <Tpenta> i was surprised to see a lot of the N@ stuff go into closed
[01:43:38] <dclarke> excuse me but can anyone give me a 30sec definition of heap memory ?
[01:43:39] <Tpenta> N2 even
[01:43:51] <richlowe> Tpenta: I would hope it was mostly NCP
[01:43:54] * dclarke reachs for his fresh copy of Solaris Internals
[01:44:05] <richlowe> (the on-board crypto is closed due to some export weirdness, I think?)
[01:44:06] <Tpenta> heap is where you do dynamic alloc/free from
[01:44:32] <Tpenta> ruchlowe the crypto stuff is changing, darren logged and had approved a psarc case on this a few weeks back
[01:44:35] <richlowe> but since steve's stuff now run's from the hg tree, we can't actually see what changes in closed/ anymore.
[01:44:42] <richlowe> Tpenta: NCP is 'special' in that regard, I recall.
[01:44:52] <stevel> huh, good point. i hadn't thought about that
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[01:50:39] <gisburn> !seen kupfer
[01:50:41] <Drone> kupfer (kupfer!i=kupfer@nat/sun/x-4f49b394ec6833e8) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 08 Nov 2006 23:13 GMT, saying 'hi Rich.  thanks for forwarding me the tools list.'.
[01:50:48] <stevel> gisburn: Sun US is on holiday today
[01:51:43] <gisburn> stevel: I know... turkey day... but sometimes there is a small light of hope that he may be here.
[01:51:45] <gisburn> Just a hope.
[01:51:47] <gisburn> small one
[01:51:54] <Tpenta> and he's not been well
[01:52:05] <gisburn> Actually just one PL' in width
[01:52:36] <gisburn> Tpenta: I know that, too. But it seems it's getting better AFAIK... at least he read his emails...
[01:52:56] * gisburn wonders whether "hope" can be measured in Planck...
[01:54:09] <gisburn> Tpenta: Do you have a Niagara1 around ?
[01:54:10] <dclarke> next silly question .. let's suppose the memory in a system is arranged with executable text and data at the bottom, then piles of heap, then libraries and stack at the top
[01:54:23] <Tpenta> not at home, i could probably find one in one of the global labs
[01:54:39] <gisburn> Tpenta: I can't get an account, right ?
[01:54:44] <dclarke> what is the dead minimal space for Solaris to startup in ?
[01:54:48] <Tpenta> do i *really* need to answer that?
[01:54:53] <gisburn> Tpenta: I may have found a solution to the niagara-killer script problem...
[01:55:21] <dclarke> Tpenta : um .. no .. I guess not
[01:55:22] <stevel> gisburn: sure, you can have an account - you just can't access it
[01:55:39] <dclarke> gisburn : you need access to UltraSparc T1 ?
[01:55:52] <Tpenta> exactly, you need an ldap corporate accoutn AND a nice little one time passwd challenge/response doohicky
[01:56:35] <stevel> you could create a local account
[01:56:41] <stevel> but he still wouldn't be able to access it
[01:56:41] <stevel> :-P
[01:56:48] <Tpenta> exactly
[01:56:52] <gisburn> dclarke: yes, may be nice. seems ksh93 expresses all math as |long double| internally (which I thought that this was the problem) but the issue _may_ be related to other abuse of fp math in ksh93
[01:56:59] <Tpenta> the security of thw sun network is taken pretty seriously
[01:57:25] <richlowe> you could bridge it over mail.
[01:57:31] <richlowe> he mails command, you respond with output, etc.
[01:57:43] <richlowe> the silly ideas are always the best :)
[01:57:44] <gisburn> Tpenta: really ? DId they fix all the holes caused by IPv6 and half of sun germany running their IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnels to 6bone ? =:-)
[01:57:49] <twincest> mailsh93
[01:57:54] * stevel thinks a bugster bridge by mail would be useful
[01:58:04] <Tpenta> i should prefix that last statement with "to my knowledge"
[01:58:18] <dclarke> gisburn : give me a little time
[01:58:31] <dclarke> gisburn : like a week or so ... and then no problem
[01:58:33] <gisburn> dclarke: ok...
[01:58:40] <gisburn> dclarke: you could do be a large favor...
[01:58:47] <gisburn> dclarke: rm -Rf /home/rmainz
[01:58:55] <gisburn> dclarke: and create a new account
[01:59:08] <bobbyz> is the nfsv4 client source among the things that is open sourced now on solaris?
[01:59:14] <dclarke> gisburn : did you say rm -rf ?
[01:59:17] <gisburn> dclarke: the old account only allows me access to the login server and nothing beyond that.
[01:59:48] <gisburn> dclarke: yes, because something is wrong witht that... I've send you five emails in two years about the probem... ;-(
[02:00:03] <dclarke> gisburn : okay .. but .. I'll need to verify that you are who you say you are before I can kill off that directory
[02:00:17] <gisburn> erm
[02:00:18] <dclarke> please rant about ksh93 and then I'll know its you !
[02:00:21] <dclarke> :-)
[02:00:31] <dclarke> damn .. I'll fix it .. rfn
[02:00:59] <gisburn> dclarke: no, I just stuff you in a scanner and then you'll become the little yellow figure in http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ksh93-integration/screenshots/gnaw_v0_8.png
[02:01:25] <gisburn> dclarke: please rm -Rf the account and create a new one, username="gisburn", shell=/bin/bash for now , please...
[02:01:28] <dclarke> rmainz:x:16433:101:Roland Mainz:/export/home/rmainz:/bin/ksh  <<-- sory but that stays
[02:01:44] <dclarke> but .. let's get it working everywhere
[02:02:13] <dclarke> we ( as in myself and Phil and a few of the "guys" ) all agree that we need some standards
[02:02:26] <dclarke> and user accounts are based on the persons name in some way
[02:02:32] <dclarke> gisburn hardly works
[02:02:39] <dclarke> as much as I agree
[02:03:01] <dclarke> so .. can you ssh into login.blastwave.org ?
[02:03:26] 
[02:03:38] <dclarke> geez ...
[02:04:08] <dclarke> because it will screw up the backend stuff ... like our tracking of your account and bug reports and the whole damn thing
[02:04:20] <dclarke> all hell will break loose .. the world will stop spinning
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[02:04:40] <gisburn> erm
[02:04:41] <dclarke> your mother gave you that name and the username is rmainz
[02:04:49] <gisburn> I am getting ASCII art.
[02:04:51] <dclarke> what's the big deal ?
[02:04:56] <dclarke> good !
[02:05:18] <richlowe> gisburn: toss in an ~/.ssh/config that fixes up the username. :)
[02:05:19] <dclarke> the ASCII art is my way of tellign you that logging is in place and here's a warning up front
[02:05:20] <gisburn> dclarke: actually my father anfd my sister voted for one name and my mother for a 2nd... that's why I have two names.
[02:05:45] <richlowe> Host login.blastwave.org
[02:05:46] <richlowe>   User rmainz
[02:05:53] <richlowe> be happy, no more typing rmainz :)
[02:05:58] <dclarke> now now ... let's not drag in family problems here
[02:07:02] <dclarke> gisburn : whats with the authorized_keys-disabled in your .ssh ?
[02:07:55] <gisburn> dclarke: I never touched that.
[02:08:02] <gisburn> e..g anything under .ssh/
[02:08:10] <dclarke> huh .. odd
[02:08:25] <dclarke> gisburn@castor ?
[02:08:34] <gisburn> castor and pollux
[02:08:38] <dclarke> that look familiar ?
[02:08:43] <gisburn> old machine names, long dead
[02:08:43] <dclarke> okay ..
[02:09:12] <gisburn> named after stellar consterlations, not the atomic transport thing "castor"
[02:09:48] <gisburn> Interestingly we got requests to "rename" it as it was doing some mailserver work during a server transition
[02:09:49] <dclarke> I thought that they looked familiar
[02:10:12] <gisburn> everyone was thingking the machine was named after the atomic transport container... ;-(
[02:10:31] <dclarke> hrmmm .. never heard of that
[02:10:50] <dclarke> the constellation yes .. the atomic bits .. no .. never heard of such a thing
[02:11:03] <dclarke> in any case .. can you login ?
[02:11:06] <gisburn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASTOR
[02:11:37] <dclarke> ok
[02:11:45] <gisburn> yes
[02:11:46] <gisburn> works
[02:11:49] <dclarke> now let's get you onto all other hosts
[02:12:00] * gisburn wishes blastwave would use the automounter some day...
[02:12:24] <dclarke> I'll get to that when we have better NFS server and better auth services
[02:12:31] <dclarke> like NIS+ or something ..
[02:12:42] <dclarke> its bloody irrelavent
[02:12:59] <dclarke> can you ping isis, osiris, ra, thor ... ??
[02:13:08] <dclarke> of course you can ping .. can you ssh in ?
[02:13:32] <gisburn> yes
[02:13:33] <gisburn> er
[02:13:35] <gisburn> ping works
[02:13:42] <myrkraverk> is there any chance the webcam built into my laptop works in solaris?
[02:13:47] <dclarke> well thats nice .. the network is up .. good
[02:13:55] <gisburn> ssh "ra" works, too.
[02:14:01] <dclarke> good
[02:14:04] <dclarke> and thor ?
[02:14:51] <gisburn> yes
[02:14:52] <gisburn> works
[02:15:26] * gisburn tries to locate the T2000 box
[02:15:27] <dclarke> try osiris and isis
[02:16:04] <gisburn> works, too
[02:16:06] <gisburn> :-)
[02:16:26] <dclarke> and now an experiment .. try saturn
[02:16:57] <gisburn> wants root password
[02:17:02] <gisburn> s/root// # :-)
[02:17:39] <gisburn> (sorry couldn't resist... :-) )
[02:18:06] <dclarke> just a sec
[02:18:18] <dclarke> need to get your authorized_keys2 in place
[02:19:29] <dwc-> gisburn: is it something someone else can run on a T2000? or do you need to?
[02:19:32] <dclarke> okay .. try saturn again
[02:19:44] <gisburn> dwc-: I have to debug it.
[02:19:47] <gisburn> ;-(
[02:20:04] <dwc-> hm, not sure I can help you with that one
[02:20:17] <dclarke> I will just hand over a zone to you
[02:20:24] <dclarke> then you can do whatever you want
[02:20:39] <dclarke> within reason
[02:20:50] <gisburn> may be a stupid question... do "lockstat" and "trapstat" work in a zone ?
[02:21:17] <dclarke> geez .. good question
[02:21:23] <dclarke> let's try
[02:21:36] <dwc-> # lockstat
[02:21:36] <dwc-> lockstat: cannot open dtrace library: DTrace device not available in local zone
[02:21:47] <gisburn> dclarke: and note that someone dubbed the script I'd like to benchmark the "niagara killer script"
[02:21:58] <dwc-> trapstat: not implemented on i86pc
[02:22:01] * dwc- goes to find another machine
[02:22:07] <dclarke> okay .. in that case we can really test that :-)
[02:22:17] <dclarke> sounds like fun
[02:22:24] <dwc-> # trapstat
[02:22:24] <dwc-> trapstat: couldn't open /dev/trapstat: No such file or directory
[02:22:26] <dclarke> can you login to saturn ?
[02:22:41] <gisburn> dclarke: the "killing" is done by forking a few hundred processes which all attack the single, lonely FPU
[02:22:54] <dclarke> sounds like no big deal to me
[02:23:01] <richlowe> I think lockstat may work if you hand the right dtrace privs to the zone.
[02:23:02] <dclarke> its a DOS attack
[02:23:06] <dclarke> no biggie
[02:23:25] <dclarke> I'll just give him the console of the box for a while
[02:23:59] <dclarke> its not like he isn't well known in the Solaris world
[02:24:08] <gisburn> Where did you get a 8way i386 box ?
[02:24:44] <dwc-> quad dual-core opteron?
[02:24:57] <stevel> there are 8-way x86 boxes
[02:25:17] <gisburn> dwc-: no, four sockets
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[02:25:36] <gisburn> stevel: yes, but they are rare these days...
[02:26:24] * gisburn still mourns the old 20way SPARCserver machines...
[02:26:34] <gisburn> 20 (!!!) CPUs
[02:27:30] <gisburn> BTW: What was the last Solaris release which supported the Cray SPARC server thing ?
[02:27:52] <gisburn> 2.6 ?
[02:28:36] <Tpenta> that woudl have been teh C6400 wouldnt it?
[02:28:51] <gisburn> Tpenta: AFAIK yes
[02:28:58] <gisburn> Tpenta: but I am not sure.
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[02:29:50] <Tpenta> searching
[02:30:01] <Tpenta> gawd, that was a sun4d
[02:30:39] <Tpenta> 2.6 is probably about right but I can't see a reference on the page I'm looking at yet
[02:30:42] <gisburn> Tpenta: why "gawd" ?
[02:30:57] <richlowe> I thought sun4d support lasted into 7.
[02:30:58] <Tpenta> i think we dropped 4d about the same time we dropped 4c
[02:31:09] <richlowe> I think 4d support vanished sooner than 4c though.
[02:31:13] <richlowe> (wasn't 4c support still in 8?)
[02:31:28] <Tpenta> yes it was, not sure about d
[02:32:11] <dclarke> sun4m is in Solaris 8 for sure
[02:32:43] <dclarke> gisburn : you are on saturn .. for a giggle run psrinfo -v
[02:33:21] <gisburn> dclarke: I did that already.
[02:33:34] <dclarke> lots of horses ther e
[02:33:40] <gisburn> dclarke: you can't install B51/AMD64 on it, right ?
[02:33:51] <dclarke> sure I can
[02:33:55] <gisburn> dclarke: would be a cool build machine for OS/Net...
[02:33:56] <gisburn> dclarke: erm
[02:34:08] <gisburn> dclarke: isn't that your main server ?
[02:34:14] <dclarke> nope
[02:34:21] <gisburn> "core" ?
[02:34:37] <dclarke> core is the real "core" of everything
[02:34:54] <dclarke> yes .. its totally critical and totally not accessible to anyone
[02:36:15] <dclarke> in any case .. you seem to have access to various servers and systems
[02:36:18] <gisburn> Mhhh, Netra hardware...
[02:36:27] <gisburn> ... psrinfo just shows one CPU...
[02:36:29] <gisburn> right ?
[02:36:32] <dclarke> eh ?
[02:36:35] * stevel is heading out to dinner
[02:36:38] <stevel> g'night folks
[02:36:51] <gisburn> stevel: night! :-)
[02:36:57] <gisburn> dclarke: just kidding.
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[02:37:08] <gisburn> dclarke: I didn't even try it.
[02:37:19] <dclarke> oh ... there are 8 procs there
[02:37:40] <gisburn> dclarke: how can a T1 have 8 procs ?
[02:37:53] <dclarke> its not a T1 at all
[02:38:10] <gisburn>  /etc/motd_map says Netra T1
[02:38:22] <dclarke> oh .. that's out of date
[02:38:29] <dclarke> I have to update that
[02:38:35] <Tpenta> the cs6400 hit end of vintage support in june 2002 FWIW
[02:38:37] <dclarke> another bloody thing to do
[02:38:55] <jamesd> gisburn, the T1 can have upto  8 cores each with 4 hardware threads... so it can emulate  32 threads/cpus
[02:39:01] <dclarke> I have fond memories of the SPARCcenter 2000E
[02:39:15] <richlowe> jamesd: Netra T1, not US-T1.
[02:39:20] <jamesd> oh
[02:39:24] <Tpenta> we still have a 2000E in the lab, hasnt been turned on in a bit
[02:39:43] <dclarke> gisburn : I have been promised a T2000 for Blastwave
[02:39:48] <gisburn> jamesd: and the NIagara1 does not "emulate" anything, it's all in hardware
[02:39:49] <jamesd> Tpenta, so you turn it on during the winter when there is a bit of chill in the air?
[02:39:57] <Tpenta> :)
[02:39:59] <dclarke> gisburn : the various market droids may even ship it .. this time
[02:40:07] <gisburn> dclarke: if you have one around it may be nice to install B51a on it...
[02:40:12] <dclarke> gisburn: it has taken a year
[02:40:28] <dclarke> gisburn: why not b53 ?
[02:40:32] <gisburn> dclarke: that way I can build OS/Net from svn.genunx.org
[02:40:43] <gisburn> dclarke: the ksh93-integration prototype004 is B51 based...
[02:40:50] <dclarke> sure .. okay ...
[02:40:55] <jamesd> gisburn, but only  6 or 8  threads can execute in any given cycle.
[02:41:11] <gisburn> jamesd: one thread per core/cycle
[02:41:34] <jamesd> yeap.. oh i forgot there is actually a 4 core version :-)
[02:41:54] <gisburn> however I am wondering whether they are smart enougth to schedule interrupts on idle strands...
[02:42:00] <Error_404> you've been playing with niagra2?
[02:42:08] <gisburn> Error_404: no.
[02:42:09] <dclarke> I figure that if the Niagara chip can execute 8 ops in one machine state then it should be able to perform a arithmetic shift left in 8 regs at the same time
[02:42:23] <dclarke> in theory
[02:42:27] <gisburn> erm
[02:42:36] <gisburn> dclarke: one arthmetic shift per core
[02:42:40] <dclarke> so .. 8 x 64 = 512 bit shift left in one op
[02:42:43] <gisburn> dclarke: if you have 8 cores
[02:42:50] <dclarke> assume 8 cores
[02:42:53] <richlowe> gisburn: intrd should take care of much of that.
[02:43:03] <dclarke> the trick would be to synchronize the 8 shifts
[02:43:14] <gisburn> richlowe: is intrd aware of idle strands ?
[02:43:29] <dclarke> one would end up with a carry flag or some flag set to the state of the upper bit from each reg
[02:43:30] <mrdeviant> dclarke, you are shifting inside a register. how are you proposing to shift across different registers in different cores?
[02:43:46] <dclarke> thats the problem !
[02:43:47] <richlowe> gisburn: it should at least balance interrupt load between the cpu_t's.
[02:43:56] <gisburn> dclarke: you're thinking too small, in the ILP scale. Threads have an overhead and you're better to optimize at he high level and not at the function level.
[02:43:59] <dclarke> mrdeviant: exactly the issue that I wonder
[02:44:03] <richlowe> though I'm not sure if that's actually sane with the T1.
[02:44:04] <richlowe> Hm...
[02:44:35] <gisburn> dclarke: for example I wrote an mpeg encoder which scales very well via running each IBBPBBPBBPBBI sequence in a seperate thread
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[02:44:51] <dclarke> mrdeviant: I am wondering if its possible to load up data from RAM into 8 cores and then perform a shift left on a number of regs at the same time
[02:44:52] <gisburn> dclarke: this scales MUCH better then trying to do threading at the macroblock level
[02:45:12] <gisburn> dclarke: that would be very ineffecient
[02:45:25] <gisburn> dclarke: the thread management eats that advantage
[02:45:47] <dclarke> hrmmm ... unless it were possible to keep all the cores in lock step perfect timing
[02:46:16] <dclarke> I really need a map of the processor and how each of them loads operations in to execute
[02:46:21] <gisburn> dclarke: erm, that won't work because the hardware picks threads which is not really predictanle from software level
[02:46:27] <dclarke> its most likely superscalar and
[02:46:29] <gisburn> dclarke: AFAIK
[02:46:38] <mrdeviant> dclarke, no. the T1 is scalar.
[02:46:39] <gisburn> dclarke: it's like taming the Cray MTA
[02:46:52] <dclarke> those cores all do their own damn thing
[02:47:00] <mrdeviant> if you want to manipulate large integers, you are probably better off using VIS
[02:47:13] <gisburn> mrdeviant: forget VIS on Niagara1
[02:47:18] <dclarke> I was thinking large integers .. yes
[02:47:21] <gisburn> mrdeviant: half of VIS is emulated in software
[02:47:28] <gisburn> mrdeviant: on niagara1
[02:47:30] <mrdeviant> gisburn, yea, i know. but i hear that niagara 2 will have hw vis
[02:47:41] <Error_404> dclarke: you can have a map of the processor... it's gpl
[02:47:42] <dclarke> specifically an implementation of a lucas-lehmer test on the niagara chip
[02:47:59] <gisburn> mrdeviant: yeah, but I heared it still sucks compared to UltraSPARC-III+ ;-(
[02:48:34] <mrdeviant> well, vis isn't really all that common in the TLP workloads
[02:49:01] <gisburn> mrdeviant: think about HPC
[02:49:02] <mrdeviant> it could be useful for RSA, but the T1 has dedicated hardware for that
[02:49:17] <gisburn> mrdeviant: but based on the top100 Sun/SPARC left the HPC market completely
[02:49:27] <gisburn> er
[02:49:28] <gisburn> top500
[02:49:35] <mrdeviant> yea, but the poor FP performance of the T1 makes it largely irrelevant for hpc
[02:49:55] <gisburn> mrdeviant: depends on the type of software.
[02:50:06] <gisburn> mrdeviant: but Niaga1 is really bad.
[02:50:17] <twincest> gisburn: would it be easier for you if i assume ksh93 will take a while and make my changes anyway? :)
[02:50:55] <gisburn> twincest: it may be more interesting to apply the changes to ksh93's buildin commands...
[02:51:07] <gisburn> twincest: email still burried in drafts/ ;-(
[02:51:25] <gisburn> twincest: I try to get it out today, ok ?
[02:51:28] <twincest> gisburn: i assume if ksh has such builtin commands they're going to replace cmd/ anyway (with appropriate solaris bits merged in), so it wouldn't matter..
[02:51:41] <gisburn> twincest: BTW: feel free to use shell-discuss@ for your work-
[02:51:43] <richlowe> I think blocking such things against an intent to eventually replace them is not sane.
[02:52:15] <dclarke> well .. I'm going to go watch "Its a Wonderful Life" again
[02:52:21] <dclarke> make popcorn etc
[02:52:30] <gisburn> richlowe: it would be twice the engineering work... we should work together, not agaonst each other or try to start a competition
[02:52:33] <dclarke> gisburn : good to see you can login again
[02:52:43] <gisburn> dclarke: yes... :-)
[02:53:07] <dclarke> gisburn : you really *need* a T2000 eh ?
[02:53:10] * gisburn hacks the urandom patch for ksh93
[02:53:35] <gisburn> dclarke: the problem is the FPU contention on niagara1 which seem to bring down the machine in flames
[02:53:46] <gisburn> dclarke: lock for 30min+ for 2000 worker jobs
[02:53:55] <dclarke> wow ...
[02:54:16] <gisburn> this is why daniel called it the niagara killer script
[02:54:21] <dclarke> okay .. I'm going to go eat popcorn and watch old movies .. when I can get you a console on such a machine .. I'll let ya know
[02:54:28] <gisburn> ok
[02:54:34] <gisburn> dclarke: thanks! :-)
[02:54:35] <Error_404> dclarke: blastwave's getting a t2000?
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[02:54:38] <dclarke> stay in touch !
[02:54:55] <dclarke> Error_404: thats the "promise" that I have
[02:55:06] <Error_404> if you blog about it, you can keep it
[02:55:07] <Error_404> heh
[02:55:11] <dclarke> Error_404: and yes .. you get a ODW for christmas too
[02:55:18] <dclarke> gotta run
[02:55:28] <gisburn> dclarke: bye
[02:55:33] <gisburn> dclarke: and THANKS! :-)
[02:57:07] <gisburn> dclarke: BTW: it is not really suprising that the script takes the machine down... think about it: 2000 processes making FPU calls which are serialised and may generate a trap ---> havoc
[02:57:33] <Error_404> w00t
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[03:04:42] <nachox> grub needs to support the filesystem the kernel lives in to be able to boot from it right?
[03:04:47] <darkcmd> does opensolaris come with the solaris management console
[03:06:47] <twincest> nachox: yes
[03:06:54] <twincest> nachox: that's why sun modified grub to add UFS support
[03:07:05] <twincest> and have to again for zfs
[03:07:57] <darkcmd> twincest, when did they add that, is it in the main branch?
[03:08:13] <twincest> darkcmd: i don't know if it's been merged upstream.  i believe sun sent back patches for it
[03:08:21] <twincest> darkcmd: they added it when solaris moved to grub, for S10
[03:08:38] <darkcmd> i thought grub could always boot UFS, since it boots freebsd doesn't it?
[03:08:51] <twincest> i thought people used chainloading for freebsd
[03:08:57] <darkcmd> probably
[03:09:03] <darkcmd> so it'll boot natively soon?
[03:09:08] <twincest> what will?
[03:09:24] <darkcmd> freebsd, since UFS patches may be making it in upstream
[03:09:29] <twincest> UFS isn't enough to boot an OS
[03:09:32] <nachox> how does it boot windows then? it knows ntfs?
[03:09:37] <twincest> grub has to understand the OS's kernel and the OS has to understand grub
[03:09:46] <twincest> Solaris uses multiboot, which is a standard that grub supports
[03:09:52] <twincest> i don't believe freebsd does, but i could be wrong..
[03:09:55] <twincest> nachox: chainloading
[03:10:02] <twincest> nachox: it loads NT's boot loader
[03:10:13] <nachox> cant you do the same with solaris then?
[03:10:21] <darkcmd> has it always used multiboot? solaris?
[03:10:28] <twincest> you could, but the whole point of using grub was to replace the shitty x86 boot loader
[03:10:31] <twincest> darkcmd: no
[03:11:07] <darkcmd> since when does it use multiboot (solaris)?
[03:11:13] <twincest> nachox: the old Solaris bootloader on x86 required separate real mode drivers for the boot device, for example
[03:11:18] <twincest> darkcmd: grub/multiboot doesn't
[03:11:27] <twincest> darkcmd: at the same time grub was added
[03:11:55] <nachox> yes, i know, and it used an awful hack to load them from a fat like partition, fortunately that is history
[03:12:38] <twincest> nachox: well if grub didn't support UFS, you'd still have to use that
[03:13:01] <nachox> makes sense now, thanks
[03:13:49] <darkcmd> does grub support UFS
[03:14:01] <twincest> didn't we just cover that?
[03:14:16] <darkcmd> where can I get the Grub solaris source
[03:14:17] <twincest> < twincest> darkcmd: i don't know if it's been merged upstream.  i believe sun sent back patches for it
[03:14:32] <nachox> solaris' grub does, suse's doesnt :P
[03:14:51] <twincest> darkcmd: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/grub/
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[03:19:30] <jmcp> hmmm. given http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/weather/en/54511_C_e.html and that outside it looks really grey and wet ... do I go to Tian an men today or tomorrow?
[03:21:10] <jamesd> jmcp, wow, i'm surprised that site isn't blocked.. isn't it against the law to say that it isn't warm, bright and sunny outside?
[03:21:48] <jmcp> ha :)
[03:21:57] <jmcp> well, I don't bother looking there for news, that's for sure
[03:22:12] <twincest> what are you over there for?
[03:22:23] <jmcp> work
[03:22:32] <nachox> jmcp you found a job again?
[03:22:35] <jmcp> heck, doesn't *everybody* know that I'm here for another week?
[03:22:37] <jmcp> yup
[03:22:38] <jamesd> twincest, no its the food, but he won't admit it.
[03:22:45] <jmcp> with Sun's x86 driver team :
[03:22:46] <jmcp> :)
[03:22:53] <jmcp> it's only a 6 month contract though
[03:23:29] <jmcp> jamesd: http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/roller/page/jmcp?entry=not_quite_sure_what_i
[03:23:32] <nachox> i was surprised when i saw your mail @ sun.com
[03:23:53] <darkcmd> who's soandso at sun dot com?
[03:24:05] <jmcp> darkcmd: I'm jmcp at Sun dot COM
[03:24:13] <darkcmd> do you work for sun
[03:24:16] <jmcp> as well as my official firstname.lastname at Sun dot COM
[03:24:20] <jmcp> yp
[03:24:23] <jmcp> yes, 6 month contract
[03:24:42] * jmcp hopes for a permanent spot to become a reality
[03:25:00] <nachox> jmcp: and there is no way you could stay?
[03:25:02] <darkcmd> jmcp, is sun moving more towards solaris on the x86 platform?
[03:25:21] <nbkk6fo_> moving? they've been solaris on x86 since 8 :-p
[03:25:24] <twincest> darkcmd: did you notice that raft of AMD solaris servers they just released? :)
[03:26:06] <jmcp> nbkk6fo_: ahem ... since 2.0 thankyouverymuch
[03:26:32] <nachox> hehe
[03:26:37] <jmcp> nachox: well, this particlar trip is a short one, I fly back this Friday. but as to 6months versus longer ... depends on how well things go
[03:26:41] <twincest> since 4.1, isn't it? :P
[03:26:54] <darkcmd> would there be any reason to run solaris 8 on an x86 machine
[03:26:55] <jmcp> twincest: that was Interactive Unix rather than Solaris
[03:27:03] <jmcp> darkcmd: only if you likepain
[03:27:18] <twincest> jmcp: SunOS + Interactive bits?  or was it just interactive with sunos branding?
[03:27:25] <nachox> jmcp: i meant working at sun :P
[03:27:26] <jmcp> it was ok at the time, but with s10 and now snv ... wtf would you want to?
[03:27:29] <jmcp> twincest: the second
[03:27:53] <jmcp> nachox: yes.... so it's a good thing that where I sit here inBeijing is right near my Director's office
[03:28:04] <jmcp> back in a b ti
[03:28:05] <jmcp> bit
[03:28:10] <darkcmd> interactive unix?
[03:28:25] <twincest> Interactive was an old x86 Unix
[03:28:36] <twincest> (i think it's still supported by Sun until 2008 or something)
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[03:29:32] <darkcmd> is it hard to get
[03:29:49] <twincest> i doubt it's still sold.  maybe you could find a second hand copy somewhere
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[03:30:36] <jmcp> twincest: you'd have to search really thoroughly
[03:30:43] <jmcp> but yes, Sun bought it as far as I'm aware
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[03:31:44] <jmcp> is "light snow" a worse touristing weather condition than "overcast" >
[03:31:46] <jmcp> ?
[03:31:59] <twincest> not if you like snow :)
[03:34:30] <jmcp> well .... I'm not really sure whether I do or not
[03:34:42] <jmcp> it's not something we get much of in Sydney, let alone Brisbane
[03:39:22] <twincest> "This corresponds to the well known fact that the sets (AxB -> C) and (A -> (B -> C)) are isomorphic, where "x" is cartesian product and "->" is function space."
[03:39:29] <twincest> that's a curious definition of 'well known'
[03:40:19] <jmcp> which function space is that?
[03:41:03] <KingDillyDilly> Over 24 hours of deleting directories and still less than 1 GB deleted. :(
[03:41:54] <KingDillyDilly> I might try installing Solaris with just 3GB space.
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[03:43:41] <KingDillyDilly> Which makes no sense because the "size on disk" is about 1GB per directory and I deleted about 13.
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[03:44:57] <KingDillyDilly> But in "My Computer" the space I'm gaining seems to be the smaller value, not the "size on disk" the the properties say.
[03:48:01] * KingDillyDilly broke another conversation
[03:49:17] <jmcp> ya think?
[03:49:34] <eugene> jmcp: been to the "twin tower" in beijing?
[03:49:43] <jmcp> eugene: no, where is that?
[03:49:50] <eugene> jmcp: http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f09.18-beijing%2fIMG_1903.JPG&index=57
[03:49:59] <eugene> jmcp: chaoyang, near xiu shui jie
[03:50:28] * jmcp gets out his map ....
[03:50:30] <eugene> jmcp: this is how you need to write, just in case you want to get a cab http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f09.18-beijing%2fIMG_1879.JPG&index=33
[03:50:37] <jmcp> cool!
[03:50:38] <jmcp> thankyou
[03:50:41] <eugene> :)
[03:51:24] <eugene> jmcp: if you go to any shopping centres, find this steamboat resutrant: xiabu xiabu. I love their steamboat. it's really good. get the peanut sauce too.
[03:51:55] <eugene> jmcp: something like: http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f09.18-beijing%2fIMG_1893.JPG&index=47
[03:52:11] <eugene> jmcp: http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f09.18-beijing%2fIMG_1980.JPG&index=134
[03:52:36] <jmcp> eugene: looks good
[03:52:51] <jmcp> btw, what's the nearest street to Chaoyang?
[03:52:56] <jmcp> duh
[03:52:57] <eugene> jmcp: and finally, don't miss Xidan http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f09.18-beijing%2fIMG_1983.JPG&index=137
[03:52:59] <jmcp> I should read more :)
[03:53:13] <eugene> jmcp: hmm. look at the east of the map, with tiananmen in the middle
[03:53:44] <eugene> been to wangfujin?
[03:54:10] <eugene> you can get to xidan and wangfujin by taking the underground train. i think it is just a couple of rmb.
[03:54:41] <jmcp> ok
[03:54:42] <eugene> http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f09.18-beijing%2fIMG_2064.JPG&index=212
[03:55:07] <jmcp> are you talking about the China Millenium Monument, btw?
[03:55:23] <eugene> nope i am not
[03:55:34] <eugene> awww, i miss home. i want to go to beijing :)
[03:55:53] <jmcp> where are you now?
[03:56:05] <eugene> singapore. i'm flying to beijing during the xmas week :)
[03:56:08] <eugene> http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f02.12-beijing-hebei%2f146_4685.JPG&index=5
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[03:56:45] <eugene> have you tried this? i haven't seen you blog any of this http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f02.12-beijing-hebei%2f148_4820.JPG&index=102
[03:56:59] <jmcp> ah
[03:57:27] <jmcp> no, the most adventurous thing I've had so far has been a fish tail
[03:57:39] <eugene> hehe.
[03:57:47] <eugene> i thought the fish tail is quite usual :)
[03:58:05] <eugene> try this drink (left) http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f02.12-beijing-hebei%2f150_5033.JPG&index=242
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[03:59:48] <eugene> the funny food is located at wangfujin da jie (it's very famous)
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[04:01:23] <jmcp> ok
[04:01:35] <jmcp> what else is Wangfujin famous for?
[04:01:40] <jmcp> I know I've heard of it, but I can't recall why
[04:01:47] <eugene> try the scorpion, but don't try the starfish and beatles
[04:01:56] <eugene> wangfujin is also called the richman stret
[04:02:08] <eugene> that's where you find branded stuff, good resutrants, funny food
[04:02:13] <jmcp> ah, right
[04:02:19] <eugene> roadside stores, pretty prositutes
[04:02:27] <eugene> ktv, discos, pubs
[04:02:33] <eugene> beijing pubs should not be missed
[04:02:36] <jmcp> you know, walking back from the office last night I got asked by about a dozen people whether I wanted to buy dvdcdvcd
[04:02:40] <jmcp> so I've heard
[04:02:46] <eugene> they have very nice programs, and they definitely want to have fun with foreigners :)
[04:02:49] <jmcp> I'm going to one/some with friends from the office on wednesday
[04:02:52] <jmcp> :)
[04:02:55] <eugene> :)
[04:03:08] <eugene> jmcp: ktv (500rmb). you pick the girls. i didn't tell you that :)
[04:03:35] <jmcp> it's ok  .... I'll let my mate Rob know instead :)
[04:03:40] <eugene> hehe
[04:03:43] <KingDillyDilly> I read "Starfish tastes like fried catfish."
[04:03:47] <jmcp> heck, I'm sure they'd have plenty of fun with me because my Mandarin is so woeful
[04:03:58] <eugene> jmcp: hehe.
[04:04:00] <jmcp> I had jellyfish before now, at a friend's wedding
[04:04:17] <eugene> KingDillyDilly: it's quite difficult to eat. it's pretty hard. awful taste
[04:04:44] <eugene> jmcp: jellyfish is a typical wedding appetizer
[04:04:45] <eugene> :)
[04:04:58] <jmcp> it was .... uh ... an interesting taste
[04:05:34] <eugene> jmcp: during the weekends, you might want to venture out of beijing, to hebei with your colleagues
[04:05:45] <eugene> jmcp: more beautiful scenaries, less polluted,
[04:05:50] <KingDillyDilly> http://jonstraveladventures.blogspot.com/2006/01/unfathomably-somehow-dan-turned-up-on.html
[04:05:50] <KingDillyDilly> "Scorpion tastes pretty good. The legs are kinda crunchy but the bodies are a  tasty little treat. It turns out the starfish tastes a little like sand."
[04:05:50] <KingDillyDilly> See photos.
[04:05:57] <eugene> jmcp: but do go before it gets even colder :)
[04:06:18] <jmcp> eugene: this is my last weekend here this year, but I'll be back in Feb
[04:06:33] <eugene> jmcp: feb! you might see snow again :)
[04:06:37] <jmcp> eugene: that's what I noted about Mutianyu
[04:06:38] <eugene> jmcp: hebei: http://www.anomalistic.org/photospace/web/view?view=media&path=%2f2006%2f02.12-beijing-hebei%2f
[04:06:41] <jmcp> that's what I'm hoping
[04:06:54] <eugene> jmcp: i saw the last snow in around end of feb
[04:07:05] <eugene> jmcp: the first snow i think is dec 17
[04:07:10] * jmcp nods
[04:07:27] <eugene> it is best to be in beijing around early march
[04:07:31] <eugene> between winter and spring
[04:07:37] <jmcp> uh huh
[04:07:38] <eugene> lots of pretty girls in their prettiest dres s:)
[04:07:47] <jmcp> *now* we're talking :)
[04:07:48] <jmcp> heck .. i'd better go out and do stuff otherwise I'll be wasting the day
[04:07:53] <Tpenta> gawd, ponting dropped a slips catch
[04:08:03] <eugene> hehe i'm going out now :)
[04:08:27] <eugene> jmcp: what are you gdoing at home?!!?
[04:08:30] <eugene> jmcp: get out !
[04:08:50] <jmcp> eugene: i'm in the hotel ... home-away-from-home ... I slept really badly last night
[04:09:01] <eugene> jmcp: oh..
[04:09:02] <Tpenta> james, Eng: 6/127 off 50 overs
[04:09:07] <jmcp> Tpenta: wow
[04:09:17] <jmcp> now where is Botham's loud mouth ?
[04:09:24] <eugene> jmcp: tata
[04:09:27] <Tpenta> someone is going to have to bat again. follow on target is 403
[04:09:29] <bhumphreys> G'Day Alan
[04:09:32] <bhumphreys> and James :-)
[04:09:33] <Tpenta> hey ben
[04:09:40] <Tpenta> thanks for the lijnked in
[04:09:55] <bhumphreys> My pleasure
[04:10:00] <jmcp> ben!
[04:10:03] <Tpenta> how's bae?
[04:10:11] <KingDillyDilly> Is this chat archived somewhere public?
[04:10:25] <bhumphreys> Ya, BAE is good. The first week I missed Sun and you guys heaps...
[04:10:29] <Tpenta> yes, you get a notify of it when you join the channel
[04:10:31] <gisburn> KingDillyDilly: well, the NSA gets it's daily copy
[04:10:37] <bhumphreys> but the team there is great
[04:10:42] <Tpenta> cool
[04:10:53] <bhumphreys> Hows things in Gordon?
[04:11:16] <Tpenta> busy with you going and mohamed being away
[04:11:23] <bhumphreys> Sorry :-(
[04:11:32] <bhumphreys> Mohamed back yet?
[04:12:02] <bhumphreys> I'm going to try and get up there for lunch in the next few weeks. You better come!! I'll buy you a pub steak :-)
[04:12:21] <jmcp> bhumphreys: if you can make that visit after 1st Dec I can come too
[04:12:55] <bhumphreys> Really...for sure. It's a done deal then.
[04:13:11] <jmcp> cool
[04:13:39] <bhumphreys> I'll buy you a pub jellyfish
[04:13:45] <jmcp> hahaha :)
[04:13:52] <jmcp> I bet the Greengate could still burn it
[04:15:37] <bhumphreys> Wouldn't know, I don't like my steak as rare as you guys
[04:16:09] <jmcp> I prefer mine to be medium rare ....
[04:16:14] * jmcp isn't a total carnivore
[04:16:48] <jmcp> ah, Zongguo Renmin Daxue is only a few blocks away .. I'll head there to get my friend a tshirt
[04:16:52] <bhumphreys> :-)
[04:17:31] <jmcp> she visited about 12 years ago, and the tshirt she got then is now full of holes
[04:17:42] <jmcp> I wonder whether they'll have sno-globes too .....
[04:21:01] <Tpenta> wow, lee just had a bouncer called a wide, in a TEST!
[04:21:11] <Tpenta> the comment was "12 feet over his head"
[04:21:45] * jmcp chuckles
[04:21:49] <jmcp> ok, off to shop
[04:21:52] <jmcp> back later folks
[04:22:03] <bhumphreys> Cya mate
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[04:37:44] <Tpenta> yay, wicket, the last of the specialist batsmen are gone
[04:38:20] <Tpenta> 7/149
[04:49:10] <gisburn> Tpenta: ?!
[04:49:36] <Tpenta> yes
[04:49:43] <gisburn> Tpenta: batman is gone ?
[04:49:48] <Tpenta> heh?
[04:49:53] <Tpenta> huh? i mean
[04:50:11] <gisburn> <Tpenta>	yay, wicket, the last of the specialist batsmen are gone
[04:50:16] <Tpenta> ahh
[04:50:32] <Tpenta> whoa anotehr wicket
[04:51:21] <gisburn> Tpenta: the turkey... was it made using alcohol ?
[04:51:30] <gisburn> Tpenta: much alcohol ?
[04:51:34] <Tpenta> i am not an american
[04:51:46] <gisburn> Tpenta: that doesn't rule out alcohol
[04:51:49] <Tpenta> i dont celebrate thanksgiving (although i did have a glass of white wit lunch)
[04:52:16] <gisburn> WTF is "anotehr wicket" ?
[04:52:23] <gisburn> And WTF is a "batsman" ?
[04:52:25] <Tpenta> the cricket is on
[04:52:31] <Tpenta> aus vs england
[04:52:38] <gisburn> aaahhhhhh
[04:52:43] <Tpenta> and england is getting hammered
[04:52:44] <gisburn> weired games.
[04:52:47] <gisburn> heh
[04:53:04] <Tpenta> Aus 9/602 declared. Eng: 8/153
[04:54:58] <gisburn> Tpenta: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5348a51ff
[04:55:09] <gisburn> Tpenta: bird cricket
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[04:56:41] <Tpenta> another wicket
[04:57:01] <Tpenta> 9/154
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[05:04:20] <sickness> i'm back
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[05:23:54] <Tpenta> england all out for 157
[05:24:32] * richlowe mutters
[05:25:21] <gisburn> interesting question: what happens when I use |sendfile()| from=/dev/random to=/tmp/bigfile with 100000GB ?
[05:25:36] <gisburn> can I interrupt this ?
[05:29:53] <Error_404> try it
[05:30:06] <Auralis> manualy i think it will be hard to kill in time, but it should just die when /tmp is full
[05:30:23] <Error_404> assuming you have a couple hundred terabytes to spare in case it doesn't work
[05:30:42] <richlowe> I would expect you to survive, but painfully.
[05:30:50] <richlowe> I'm not sure if you meant /tmp literally though.
[05:32:03] <gisburn> tmpfs
[05:32:38] <richlowe> I'd be interested in knowing whether you run out of entropy or memory first :)
[05:32:44] <richlowe> mainly only morbid curiosity though.
[05:33:06] <Error_404> try it on a production box
[05:35:01] <nachox>  /dev/random doesnt fallback to a pseudorandom number generator algorithm once it runs out of entropy?
[05:35:57] <twincest> nachox: that's urandom
[05:36:06] <richlowe> the answer will be "entropy"
[05:36:25] <gisburn> nachox: /dev/random waits until entropy is available again.
[05:36:47] <nachox> hmm, there is another difference with linux then :)
[05:37:00] <dwc-> uh?
[05:37:12] <dwc-> what linux are you reading from
[05:37:19] <dwc-> RANDOM(4)                  Linux Programmer's Manual                 RANDOM(4)
[05:37:20] <twincest> no, /dev/random on linux blocks too
[05:37:27] <twincest> you need /dev/urandom there too
[05:37:30] <dwc->        When read, the /dev/random device will only return random bytes  within
[05:37:33] <dwc->        the estimated number of bits of noise in the entropy pool.  /dev/random
[05:37:37] <dwc->        should be suitable for uses that need very high quality randomness such
[05:37:40] <dwc->        as  one-time  pad  or  key generation.  When the entropy pool is empty,
[05:37:43] <dwc->        reads from /dev/random will block until additional environmental  noise
[05:37:46] <dwc->        is gathered.
[05:38:01] * nachox stands corrected :)
[05:39:11] <nachox> i was under the impression that urandom always generated pseudorandom numbers and random fell back to the urandom way when it ran out of entropy
[05:39:18] <dwc-> no, that'd be insecure
[05:39:25] <dwc-> well, less secure
[05:41:41] <richlowe> more insecure.
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[06:17:55] <Tpenta> non-debug closed binaries are now available for b53
[06:20:12] <Tpenta> http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta/entry/b53_non-debug_encumbered_binaries_%28and
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[06:27:50] <KingDillyDilly> Anyone know if BeleniX supports ZFS?
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[06:28:50] <Tpenta> i believe that it does
[06:30:19] <kAv_> not fully functional, tried it couple of weeks ago
[06:30:32] <kAv_> but its coming
[06:30:39] <Tpenta> :)
[06:30:53] <Tpenta> jamesd: you missed my update: http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta/entry/b53_non-debug_encumbered_binaries_%28and
[06:31:01] <Tpenta> nd bins available
[06:31:12] <Tpenta> sorry it was a bit late this week, this week has been, .....    special
[06:31:23] <kAv_> personally i am waiting for when zfs get the add-disk to raidz
[06:31:23] <KingDillyDilly> It might be better to just get a CD burner for a LiveCD  than to make room on my hard drive when my hardware may not be supported.
[06:31:30] <jamesd> cool, but i don't use them.. i just run sxcr
[06:31:53] <Tpenta> that's right it was mr clarke who was after the sparc ones
[06:32:00] <kAv_> kingdilly : you can boot it of a usb stick
[06:32:01] <jamesd> yeap
[06:32:53] <KingDillyDilly> I don't have one, but I have a USB hard drive. Would that work?
[06:35:45] <KingDillyDilly> The download page says it requires a thumb drive, do I guess not.
[06:36:22] <kAv_> in theory should not make any diference
[06:39:36] <kAv_> but coming to think of it you should be able to use the same technique for the disks as long as you want a single bootable partition (belenix)
[06:41:47] <KingDillyDilly> I think I should get a CD burner anyway, for partial backups and stuff. Especially since I'll be partitioning both hard drives for this.
[06:42:50] <KingDillyDilly> (or for another OS if this doesn't work)
[06:47:46] <darkcmd> when could you start booting solaris off a usb drive
[06:49:48] <KingDillyDilly> Who, me? Any time I want, if it works. But I read about people having problems booting Linux LiveCDs off their USB drives, so I might not even try.
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[07:40:46] * jmcp wanders back in
[07:41:53] <jmcp> bit of a disappointing wander, really - couldn't find the tshirt I was looking for, couldn't find the SAS hbas I was looking for ... was unable to haggle successfully for the lens I want, and I still haven't had breakfast!
[07:41:55] * jmcp sighs
[07:45:05] <jmcp> Tpenta: how's the cricket?
[07:45:09] <jamesd_> i thought  china was earlier than the west coast of u.s.a... i figure it would be about  3 or 4 pm.
[07:45:29] <jmcp> jamesd_: 14:50 here right now
[07:45:52] <jamesd_> wow i was closer than i thought...
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[07:46:31] <jmcp> all of China is the same tz, and they don't have DST here either
[07:47:13] <jamesd_> isn't the country huge? i guess that must be strange... it seems big enough for 5 or 6 normal timezones
[07:48:12] <jmcp> yeah, same size as the continental USA, same size as Australia
[07:48:33] <jmcp> I reckon the govt here decided that it would be too hard to educate everybody about multiple TZs
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[07:51:50] <jamesd_> i guess
[07:52:41] <Tpenta> eng all out for 157, ponting decided to bat again! aus 1/128
[07:53:28] <jmcp> wow
[07:53:37] <jmcp> so who let the Australian side down by getting out?
[07:54:36] <Tpenta> hayden for 37 off 41 balls
[07:54:55] <Tpenta> james: www.cricinfo.org it updates minute to minute with written commentry
[07:56:11] <jmcp> I know about cricinfo, but there's a slight problem with where I'm physically located right now
[07:56:29] <silk> he ran himself out
[07:56:36] <silk> stupid thing to do
[07:57:02] <silk> I have no idea as to why they didnt enforce a follow on
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[08:09:46] <Tpenta> probably to embarass them
[08:09:59] <Tpenta> rack the score up to something sill quickly and then polish them off over 2 days
[08:10:22] <axisys_> where can i get help w/ linksys 54G?
[08:10:25] <axisys_> i want to put linux on it
[08:10:39] <axisys_> sorry for off topic q
[08:12:46] <jamesd_>  #linux, #linksys,  linksys.com, google.com
[08:14:11] <axisys_> jamesd_: thnx
[08:18:28] <Tpenta> 1/165 they have passed what england scored in about a session
[08:18:50] * jmcp wanders off for a snooze
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[08:32:55] <Tpenta> jmcp: 1/181 at stumps
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[08:59:11] <eugene> jmcp: buying a university t-shirt? possible?
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[09:27:40] * jmcp wakes up
[09:28:08] <jmcp> eugene: unable to find one for my friend. found plenty of Beijing 2008 gear though
[09:28:37] <eugene> jmcp: hehe
[09:30:20] <jmcp> Tpenta: that's an ok score for stumps
[09:30:29] <jmcp> wish I could watch some of it
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[09:55:13] <jmcp> bizzarrity ...housekeeping just arrived to completely restock my kitchen with new kit
[09:56:52] <jmcp> even to the extent of re-pouring my cuppa into a new glass!
[09:57:58] <Error_404> heh
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[10:02:21] <jmcp> wow ... now I have some decent stemware, *plates*, a corkscrew like I saw the other night for 1000RMB =~ AUD166, and non-stick cookware
[10:03:02] <jmcp> I knew that the previous owners of this hotel basically scarpered with a whole heap of stuff that the new owners thought they'd bought, but this is ridiculous. A new kitchen in 5 minutes!
[10:04:03] <whaq> jmcp, what hotel are you staying at?
[10:06:44] <Error_404> the only accomidation i've ever stayed at which gave me cookware was a fishing lodge
[10:06:53] <Error_404> (I don't fish, it was just a nice out of the way lodge)
[10:07:19] <jmcp> whaq: Somerset Zhongguancun, #15 Haidian Zhongjie, Beijing
[10:08:18] <whaq> jmcp, cool. Are you staying at their suite? I never got a kitchen while staying at BEijing Hotel (regular and jr suite)
[10:09:48] <jmcp> yeah, this is a suite. 60m^2 I think. My mate Rob is here too, he's got one of the 75m^2 suites
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[10:10:38] <whaq> Nice
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[10:11:57] <boro> morning
[10:12:23] <whaq> g'day
[10:12:24] <jmcp> morning
[10:12:25] <boro> SunOS server 5.10 Generic_118855-19 i86pc i386 i86pc, can i somehow download zfs/zpool for this version, or upgrade ? smpatch update no more downloads newer kernel etc
[10:12:41] <jmcp> boro: what does /etc/release say?
[10:12:56] <boro> Solaris 10 1/06 s10x_u1wos_19a X86
[10:13:14] <jmcp> no, you have to upgrade to at least Solaris 10 update 2 (06/06)
[10:13:33] <boro> i see, but i have very difficult access to that server
[10:13:47] <jmcp> then you will have to schedule access
[10:13:52] <boro> i guess, on some other machine, i used just to smpatch update and it was done
[10:13:57] <jmcp> there is no "just add this package" to get zfs
[10:14:04] <jmcp> boro: they were probably running s10u2 already
[10:14:15] <boro> i am not sure, but i think no
[10:14:24] <boro> but...if u say, i'll believe
[10:14:26] <boro> thanks
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[10:24:21] <bougie> hello :p
[10:25:20] <jmcp> hiya
[10:25:42] <whaq> bonjour
[10:25:56] <jmcp> gutentag
[10:26:00] <boro> zdravstvuj
[10:26:01] <jmcp> ninhaoma
[10:26:17] * jmcp has no idea wtf to say in swedish as a greeting
[10:26:33] <twincest> bork
[10:26:57] <trygvis> hei!
[10:26:57] <jmcp> :)
[10:27:04] <whaq> hej.
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[10:49:07] <whaq> Hm.. I get the following report on iostat -e after transferring about 100GB. What could've caused the errors?
[10:49:10] <whaq>            ---- errors ---
[10:49:10] <whaq> device     s/w h/w trn tot
[10:49:12] <whaq> sd5        1153   0   0 1153
[10:50:12] <trygvis> will myzone:/etc/defaultrouter be used to set the default router for a zone?
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[10:57:47] <Fish> hello
[10:58:43] <dlynes_laptop> Good morning, Fish
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[11:23:36] <sickness> morning all
[11:32:34] <whaq> morning sickness
[11:32:45] <Tpenta> your pregnant?
[11:33:31] <whaq> just trying to be friendly, and look what i got..
[11:33:52] <Tpenta> :)
[11:33:58] <Tpenta> i'm in a silly mood :)
[11:34:04] <twincest> oh, so _that's_ why he's called sickness..
[11:34:05] <Tpenta> please forgive
[11:34:09] <whaq> are you a cute chick? ;)
[11:34:17] <Tpenta> not quite
[11:34:29] <Tpenta> http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta
[11:34:46] <whaq> that's ok, u can pretend to be one ;)
[11:35:01] <whaq> jk.
[11:35:05] <Tpenta> on the internet, no-one knows you are a dog
[11:36:23] <whaq> first, i would gauge their typing speed.. paws are not so quick..
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[11:42:42] <bobbyz> Hey, I've got a quick question: Can you designate the same drive as a hot spare for both SVM and zfs?  My more important data I have stored on a SVM mirror, while my less important data I am storing on a zfs raidz pool.  However, I have an extra drive I would like to designate as a hot spare if any of my other drives go out.  I'd like to have it shared as a hot spare between both SVM and ZFS but I'm afraid to try without asking
[11:46:44] <quasi> somehow I doubt that
[11:48:16] <lasseoe> either way it's a bad idea
[11:54:04] <sickness> I have a strange problem, I've a drive with an snv_something installed (something as in like snv_48), if I boot from a cdrom or anything is cleanly mountable and fsckappable, if I try to upgrade with an snv_51 dvd media, it says that the filesystem is not mountable :/
[11:54:08] <sickness> any idea?
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[12:00:40] <bobbyz> alright thanks
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[12:03:13] <delewis> 04:58 < KotH> really?
[12:03:13] <delewis> 04:58 < KotH> solaris is slow
[12:03:13] <delewis> 04:58 <@dalias> it's not calles "slowlaris" for no reason
[12:03:13] <delewis> 04:59 < KotH> but it does not become slower if you run 1000 processes
[12:03:13] <delewis> 04:59 <@dalias> hahahaha
[12:03:16] <delewis> 04:59 <@dalias> exactly
[12:03:18] <delewis> 04:59 <@dalias> typical shit
[12:03:21] * delewis snickers
[12:03:40] <Tpenta> slowaris was actually coined when we went from SunOS4 to Solaris 2.0
[12:03:54] <Tpenta> but the newbies dont know that and think it's kewl to say
[12:04:11] <twincest> the last sunos4 machine i used still booted faster than any solaris machine i've seen ;-)
[12:04:38] <delewis> Tpenta: indeed.
[12:04:41] <delewis> but of course, I pointed that out.
[12:04:50] <Tpenta> that was the point solaris 2.0 WAS slow in comparison. we've come an awful long way since then (about 13 years I think)
[12:06:22] <movement> I bet sunos 4 could do some things faster on modern machines though :)
[12:08:44] <delewis> 05:08 < KotH> delewis: solaris/sparc sucks when it comes to single process
[12:08:45] <delewis>               application performance
[12:08:57] <lasseoe> heh
[12:09:10] <delewis> 05:08 < KotH> delewis: dont know of any non-sparc systems (is there a point to
[12:09:13] <delewis>               use solaris on anything else?)
[12:09:16] <delewis> 05:08 < KotH> delewis: but it rocks if you have huge loaded servers
[12:09:48] <twincest> get him to file a bug next time he finds one of these slow things
[12:09:57] <twincest> since any time solaris is slower than linux is a bug (officially)
[12:09:58] <delewis> twincest: I doubt he cares. :-)
[12:10:14] <Tpenta> which channel is that in?
[12:10:21] <delewis> Tpenta: #mplayerdev
[12:10:25] <twincest> oh gawd
[12:10:28] <delewis> yes.
[12:10:29] <delewis> :-)
[12:11:34] <dlynes_laptop> Yeah...I'm new to solaris, and even I find it faster than Linux
[12:11:52] <dlynes_laptop> But every channel I hang out in, all the Linux geeks say Linux is much faster and that I'm full of crap :p
[12:12:15] <dlynes_laptop> But the only solaris i've used so far is Solaris 8
[12:12:30] <delewis> 05:11 <@dalias> i hate that approach
[12:12:35] <delewis> 05:11 <@dalias> horrible baseline performance but "scales well in the high end"
[12:12:44] <delewis> in reference to Solaris' scalability
[12:13:21] <lasseoe> ignorance is bliss
[12:15:36] <delewis> now, I'm getting compared to Microsoft. :-)
[12:16:19] * delewis wonders why he subjects himself to such torture
[12:16:20] <twincest> is that channel on this network?
[12:16:26] <delewis> twincest: yes
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[12:24:04] <dlynes_laptop> delewis: he's obviously a bsd fanboi :p
[12:24:53] <delewis> twincest: out of popcorn, yet?
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[12:55:06] <trygvis> anyone know if the svn mail stuff is packages in some blastwave package?
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[13:14:44] <jmcp> ooooh, it's got a pretty blue led!
[13:14:57] <jmcp> just got myself a usb2->rs232 converter
[13:19:22] <dlynes_laptop> Is Solaris Management Console the typical way one would configure the network and that kinda thing on Solaris?
[13:19:51] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: it depends on whether you're asking an old-style sysadmin or not
[13:20:02] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: I think it's a fair assumptionto make
[13:20:07] <dlynes_laptop> ah, ok
[13:20:23] <dlynes_laptop> Just curious why they went with a java application, instead of an x11 gui
[13:21:39] <dlynes_laptop> I guess there aren't any books around to tell instruct someone new to solaris on how to do it using an old fashioned text editor, is there?
[13:21:46] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: that's a Pandora's Box
[13:21:57] <dlynes_laptop> Why's that?
[13:22:02] <dlynes_laptop> Solaris is that complicated?
[13:22:03] <jmcp> um, not really sure. have you looked at opensolaris.org or sun.com/bigadmin
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[13:22:19] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: the conflict between the old school and the new school got .... ugly
[13:22:22] <jmcp> :|
[13:22:24] <dlynes_laptop> Yeah, i was more looking for a book to get started
[13:22:31] <dlynes_laptop> and then use bigadmin as a supplementary resource
[13:23:18] <kiivi> How large is the performance difference of giving ZFS a whole disk or just a partition (so the same disk can be used for UFS-root) ?
[13:23:36] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: dunno about a book, sorry
[13:23:42] <dlynes_laptop> If it helps, I've got the solaris 9 system admin cert prep book, solaris management console tools, and a number of books on tuning solaris
[13:23:55] <dlynes_laptop> but nothing specifically on administering it
[13:23:56] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: that should be fine to get started with
[13:24:16] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: but you probably want to go to docs.sun.com and look at the Solaris 10 System Administrator Collection
[13:24:17] <dlynes_laptop> oh yeah...and a generic o'reilly unix book
[13:24:26] <dlynes_laptop> Ah, ok
[13:24:27] <dlynes_laptop> thanks
[13:24:31] <jmcp> kiivi: I don't think anybody has really worried about that so far
[13:24:37] <jmcp> kiivi: what concerns you about it?
[13:25:18] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: Solaris 10 sysadmin collection works equally well for 8 and 9 as well?
[13:25:42] <kiivi> jmcp: just reading the documentation and it seems to advice on giving it whole disks. (Solaris ZFS Administration Guide)
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[13:32:41] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: well, i suppose one good thing about the gui is that it allows you to see the status of a remote machine
[13:32:57] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: that's something you can't do with vim :)
[13:33:13] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: no, but if you're running Solaris Express or S10 it does
[13:33:39] <jmcp> kiivi: some people have had problems with giving entire disks to ZFS if their PC bios can't handle the EFI label
[13:33:46] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: vim does?  vim's a text editor
[13:34:10] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: no, I was talking about your s8/s9 query
[13:34:21] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: ah, ok
[13:34:51] <dlynes_laptop> Just trying to learn solaris well enough to get a few opensource projects compiling on solaris
[13:35:03] <dlynes_laptop> And hopefully deploy one of them on solaris in a production environment
[13:35:34] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: any project in particular?
[13:35:43] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: #openpbx
[13:35:47] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: and have you perused the package list @ www.blastwave.org ?
[13:35:52] <jmcp> I don't think that one is there
[13:35:58] <dlynes_laptop> I know it's not there
[13:36:04] <dlynes_laptop> It's not compiling on solaris yet
[13:36:09] <dlynes_laptop> I'll be the first to do that
[13:36:28] <dlynes_laptop> I want to get it deployed on a netra t1
[13:37:02] <jmcp> ah, the t1
[13:37:38] <dlynes_laptop> yeah...it's a great little machine
[13:37:45] <dlynes_laptop> I wish I'd have come across it before
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[13:38:09] <FlaTLyneR> Hi Guys
[13:38:14] <FlaTLyneR> Is there anyone around?
[13:38:19] <dlynes_laptop> yes
[13:38:28] <FlaTLyneR> haha
[13:38:29] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: I bought a bunch of sparcs from NetWolf
[13:38:38] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: I don't know if you know him, or not
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[13:39:21] <jmcp> I've seen him around
[13:39:22] <FlaTLyneR> Guys, i've lost a partition on my Solaris x86 box, i can't mount
[13:39:31] <jmcp> FlaTLyneR: nobody here but us insomniacs
[13:39:32] <FlaTLyneR> fsck gives me a core dump
[13:39:34] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: he worked at Sun about ten years ago
[13:39:43] <jmcp> what's his real name?
[13:39:45] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: He's a major solaris/sparc fanatic
[13:39:53] <jmcp> bruno delbono ?
[13:39:55] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: Bruno Salvorio(?) delbono
[13:39:56] <dlynes_laptop> yeah
[13:40:11] * jmcp waves to Netwolf
[13:40:23] <dlynes_laptop> He's without a sparc, right now :0
[13:40:30] <dlynes_laptop> His wife made him get rid of all of them
[13:40:33] <dlynes_laptop> So I bought them all :)
[13:41:00] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: you probably saved his marriage :)
[13:41:06] <dlynes_laptop> hahah
[13:41:13] <dlynes_laptop> nah...his wife's pretty cool
[13:41:17] <Dr3w> Ooo this is chatty
[13:41:20] <dlynes_laptop> but i bet she goes nuts with all his damned computers
[13:41:25] <dlynes_laptop> mind you
[13:41:36] <dlynes_laptop> i've got a 600 sq ft apartment with about 13 computers n it
[13:41:43] <dlynes_laptop> five of them are sparcs
[13:41:58] <dlynes_laptop> the rest are all linux boxes
[13:42:27] <dlynes_laptop> but out of all of those, so far the netra's my favorite
[13:42:36] <FlaTLyneR> Does anyone know of any good (maybe free) data recovery utils for Solaris?
[13:42:56] <tsoome> ufsrestore
[13:43:03] <jmcp> FlaTLyneR: there are some you can run under windows, but they don't help you unless you pay $$$$
[13:43:12] <FlaTLyneR> Yeah, i noticed that
[13:43:16] <jmcp> FlaTLyneR: so what did you do which resulted in your partition being hosed?
[13:43:31] <FlaTLyneR> God damn prod box shat itslef after someone performed an fsck when it was up
[13:43:38] <FlaTLyneR> last weekends backups failed
[13:43:53] <FlaTLyneR> so screwed
[13:44:21] <FlaTLyneR> New graduates we have in to help = hosed box
[13:44:40] <tsoome> x86 and fdisk partition?
[13:45:06] <FlaTLyneR> Its one big Solaris x86 parition i think
[13:45:32] <tsoome> and whitch one is gone, fdisk partition or vtoc slice?
[13:46:01] <FlaTLyneR> I can see the slice, and i can try to mount it on c1d0s3
[13:46:08] <FlaTLyneR> but it gives an I/O error
[13:46:13] <FlaTLyneR> and fsck doesn;t fix it
[13:46:14] <jmcp> so you've booted from media ?
[13:46:18] <FlaTLyneR> Yep
[13:46:26] <jmcp> same version that you've got installed?
[13:46:30] <FlaTLyneR> yes
[13:46:33] <FlaTLyneR> Solaris 10
[13:46:34] <tsoome> does fstyp recognize the fs?
[13:47:00] <FlaTLyneR> yes as UFS
[13:47:01] <jmcp> how far through the fsck does it coredump?
[13:47:15] <FlaTLyneR> Its coredumps after about 10 minutes
[13:47:24] <FlaTLyneR> i tried deleting the indode with clri
[13:47:27] <tsoome> any nessages?
[13:47:36] <FlaTLyneR> but the next inode give the same problem
[13:48:18] <jmcp> FlaTLyneR: no, what stage does it get to? stage1? stage 2?....
[13:48:30] <FlaTLyneR> Oh stage 1 i think
[13:48:46] <FlaTLyneR> no further
[13:49:15] <jmcp> you're really hosed
[13:49:17] <jmcp> sorry :(
[13:49:28] <jmcp> what is the downtime on this box costing you?
[13:49:35] <FlaTLyneR> I think maybe we might have made it worse actually, tell me if this sounds bad
[13:49:50] <FlaTLyneR> Solaris 10 Install asked us to preserve slices
[13:50:00] <FlaTLyneR> So we did, when we were reinstalling the os
[13:50:09] <FlaTLyneR> But there wa no room for a new root slice
[13:50:29] <FlaTLyneR> So there was two 50 meg slices which were doing nothing
[13:50:59] <FlaTLyneR> So i put the root slice on like c1d0s5 and increased its size to 700mb to handle a "Core" install
[13:51:13] <FlaTLyneR> Doe this mean i've overlapped into other paritions?
[13:51:24] <FlaTLyneR> or is Soalris smart enough not to do that?
[13:51:35] <jmcp> sounds like you shot yourself in the foot with a howitzer
[13:51:40] <FlaTLyneR> owww
[13:51:49] <jmcp> FlaTLyneR: solaris is smart enough to trust that you know what you're doing
[13:51:55] <FlaTLyneR> lol
[13:52:08] <jmcp> which doesn't answer your question in any affirmative sense :|
[13:52:13] <FlaTLyneR> Ok, this prod box is semi-important
[13:52:28] <jmcp> ever tested your restores before now?
[13:52:31] <FlaTLyneR> I'll get ti back into its former state in some way shape or fashion
[13:52:40] <FlaTLyneR> A couple of times
[13:52:57] <FlaTLyneR> But always had recent backups
[13:54:07] <FlaTLyneR> Thanks a million for the advice guys
[13:54:31] <jmcp> I see no advice here other than "reinstall OS and restore what you can from backup"
[13:54:41] <FlaTLyneR> well. yeah
[13:54:49] <FlaTLyneR> but its good to know i'm screwed
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[13:54:55] <dlynes_laptop> heh
[13:55:25] <FlaTLyneR> I don't want any false hope, now i move on to the next phase of this restore which is as you said above
[13:55:41] * jmcp nods
[13:55:57] <FlaTLyneR> back later!
[13:55:58] *** FlaTLyneR is now known as FlaT_restoring
[13:56:04] <Dr3w> hey!
[13:56:22] <jmcp> Dr3w: I didn't step on your toe, don't worry
[13:56:23] <Dr3w> how appropriate "FlaTLyneR"
[13:56:39] <FlaT_restoring> haha
[13:56:42] <FlaT_restoring> yeah
[13:56:47] <FlaT_restoring> dead as a doornail
[13:57:01] <FlaT_restoring> laterz!
[14:15:30] <dlynes_laptop> Is there a channel specific to developing code on solaris?
[14:15:54] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: you're in it
[14:15:59] <dlynes_laptop> ah, ok
[14:16:00] <jmcp> as much as there is one
[14:16:22] <dlynes_laptop> I noticed in the header files a definition of _LP64 and _ILP64
[14:16:38] <dlynes_laptop> erm
[14:16:45] <dlynes_laptop> _ILP32, not _ILP64
[14:17:25] <dlynes_laptop> I'm on a 64-bit SPARC, and _ILP32 is supposed to be for 32-bit intel, and _LP64 is supposed to be for 64-bit intel
[14:17:34] <dlynes_laptop> Why is _ILP32 getting defined?
[14:17:59] <jmcp> why are you sure that ILP32 is just for intel?
[14:18:09] <jmcp> how much do you know about posix?
[14:18:16] * jmcp looks around for movement .....
[14:18:29] <dlynes_laptop> Well, _LP64 is getting defined when __ia64 is defined
[14:18:58] <jmcp> you're seeing ia64 defined? ... interesting ....
[14:18:59] <dlynes_laptop> _ILP32 is getting defined when __i386 or i386 is defined
[14:19:18] <dlynes_laptop> This is in /usr/include/sys/isa_defs.h
[14:19:51] <dlynes_laptop> Which ultimately gets included by inttypes.h
[14:19:52] <jmcp> so read the comments about ILP32, amongst other things
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[14:20:54] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: ia64 is not defined in Solaris. that's the Itanium #define
[14:21:03] <dlynes_laptop> Ok, not sure what the 'Sparc v9' is
[14:21:16] <dlynes_laptop> or a 64-bit abi, for that matter
[14:21:19] <movement> jmcp: hmm?
[14:21:58] <dlynes_laptop> Well, I figured __ia64 wasn't defined in Solaris
[14:22:19] <dlynes_laptop> That was never an issue...was just trying to figure out why 32-bit was getting defined by default instead of 64-bit
[14:22:28] <jmcp> movement: hi. dlynes_laptop is asking about ILP32 and LP64
[14:22:39] <dlynes_laptop> The whole reason I ran into this issue is because I needed int64_t defined
[14:22:46] <movement> _ILP32 applies to any 32-bit environment
[14:23:02] <movement> and int64_t is /always/ defined if you include <inttypes.h>, look at the headers
[14:23:14] <movement> the 'I' is Integer not Intel
[14:23:17] <dlynes_laptop> But it isn't
[14:23:30] <movement> dlynes_laptop: what solaris release is this???
[14:23:36] <dlynes_laptop> Solaris 9
[14:23:39] <movement> oh.
[14:23:44] <movement> lord knows about that then
[14:23:51] <movement> what do the headers do?
[14:23:54] <jmcp> :)
[14:24:03] <movement> I skipped from 2.6 to 10.
[14:24:08] <dlynes_laptop> It includes int64_t if and only if _LP64 is defined
[14:24:22] <movement> wtf?
[14:24:29] <dlynes_laptop> erm wait...not solaris 9...solaris 8
[14:24:30] <movement> show me?
[14:26:26] <movement> hah, I see it
[14:26:31] <movement>  73 #if __STDC__ - 0 == 0 && !defined(_NO_LONGLONG)
[14:26:31] <movement>  74 typedef long long               int64_t;
[14:26:32] <movement>  75 #endif
[14:26:40] <dlynes_laptop> #ifdef  _LP64
[14:26:41] <dlynes_laptop> typedef long                    int64_t;
[14:26:41] <dlynes_laptop> #else   /* _ILP32 */
[14:26:41] <dlynes_laptop> #if __STDC__ - 0 == 0 && !defined(_NO_LONGLONG)
[14:26:41] <dlynes_laptop> typedef long long               int64_t;
[14:26:41] <dlynes_laptop> #endif
[14:27:02] <movement> guess Solaris 8/9 never got C99
[14:27:21] <dlynes_laptop> I have no idea what __STDC__ - 0 does...never seen a construct like that before
[14:27:32] <dlynes_laptop> Seems like an expression only useful for its side effect
[14:28:18] <dlynes_laptop> It's weird though...it's solaris 8, but looking through admintool, it shows solaris core 7
[14:28:22] <dlynes_laptop> so i have no idea how that one works
[14:28:33] <movement> dlynes_laptop: works for when __STDC__ is not defined and when it's 0
[14:28:55] <dlynes_laptop> Ok, so I guess I need to make sure __STDC__ isn't defined
[14:29:00] <dlynes_laptop> thanks
[14:29:23] <dlynes_laptop> Because when I define _LP64, I get an error about _ILP32 already being defined
[14:29:41] <dlynes_laptop> I didn't realize it was a compiler or build environment generated definition
[14:29:46] <movement> you can't do that
[14:29:55] <movement> your workaround is relatively simple:
[14:29:56] <dlynes_laptop> That's what I just said :)
[14:30:05] <movement> (after all the headers)
[14:30:30] <dlynes_laptop> #undef _ILP32
[14:30:34] <dlynes_laptop> #define _LP64?
[14:31:09] <dlynes_laptop> I think modifying the makefile so that stdc isn't defined would probably be an easier solution
[14:31:29] <movement> #if !defined(_LONGLONG_TYPE) && !defined(_LP64) && !defined(__STDC__) && !defined(_NO_LONGLONG)
[14:31:36] <movement> typedef long long uint64_t;
[14:31:37] <movement> #endif
[14:31:39] <movement> should do it
[14:31:44] <movement> dlynes_laptop: won't help you
[14:31:47] <dlynes_laptop> oh
[14:31:59] <dlynes_laptop> I guess solaris defines it as part of the build
[14:32:00] <movement> hrm, hold on
[14:32:12] <dlynes_laptop> Under Linux it only gets defined if you define it
[14:32:27] <movement> defining it do something other than 0 should work
[14:32:41] <movement> dlynes_laptop: not true, it depends upon what compiler flags you give (-std= for gcc)
[14:32:52] <dlynes_laptop> ah, ok
[14:33:19] <dlynes_laptop> It would make it so much simpler if they just made it build with the sun compiler instead of gcc :)
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[14:33:42] <movement> what gcc flags are you using
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[14:34:32] <movement> should work by default
[14:34:47] <movement> you must be using -std=c89
[14:34:56] <movement> try -std=gnu89
[14:34:59] <movement> or no -std
[14:35:18] <dlynes_laptop> /opt/csw/gcc3/bin/gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -I.. -std=c99 -Wall -Wunused-variable -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -xtarget=ultra -xarch=v8plusa -xc -I/usr/sfw/include -I/opt/csw/include -DSOLARIS -MT adsi.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/adsi.Tpo -c adsi.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/adsi.o
[14:35:49] <dlynes_laptop> btw...is there a preprocessor definition that's automatically defined when compiling on solaris?
[14:39:37] <dlynes_laptop> movement: Yeah...getting rid of '-std' worked beautifully
[14:39:40] <dlynes_laptop> movement: thanks muchly
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[15:04:35] <dlynes_laptop> Thanks again for your help, movement and jmcp :)
[15:04:41] <jmcp> you're welcome
[15:04:48] <dlynes_laptop> I think i'm going to go to sleep for the night
[15:05:00] <dlynes_laptop> 6am here already
[15:05:00] <jmcp> though all I did for you was pull movement into the conversation :)
[15:05:29] <dlynes_laptop> Nah, you pointed me in another direction for somewhere I could find some Sun/Solaris books
[15:05:42] <dlynes_laptop> I much prefer books over online sources for my initial education
[15:07:36] <movement> dlynes_laptop: __sun__
[15:08:04] <dlynes_laptop> movement: ?
[15:12:26] <movement> define for solaris
[15:12:49] <dlynes_laptop> ah, ok
[15:12:54] <dlynes_laptop> thanks very much
[15:15:45] <Doc> jmcp/tpenta: alive?
[15:15:50] <Doc> we built rory an office whilst he was on holidays - http://www.docbert.org/tmp/office1.jpg and office2.jpg
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[15:30:54] <jmcp> Doc: d0000000000000000000000000d !! :-)
[15:30:57] <jmcp> good work :)
[15:31:10] <Doc> yeah.. only problem is he likes it and wants to keep it!
[15:36:37] <Auralis> lol
[15:40:00] <troff> does nightly ./opensolaris.sh &  also build the kernel?
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[15:42:18] <jmcp> troff: yes
[15:42:54] <troff> thanks
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[16:20:27] <Saltsa> is it possible to install solaris from internet?
[16:20:42] <Saltsa> without burning/downloading huge cd/dvd-images...
[16:21:35] <whaq> Saltsa, sure, if you have a 100mbps broadband..
[16:22:19] <Stric> no, there's not something like a debian netinst cd and apt-get the rest
[16:22:23] <Saltsa> whaq: well, where to get those minimal cd-images from which to boot installer?
[16:22:42] <kiivi> whaq: any documentation on that?
[16:23:05] <whaq> Heh :> Sorry I was just messing w/ u
[16:23:36] <kiivi> blah. got the 100mbps broadband ;)
[16:23:39] <whaq> I'm a solaris noob, coming from extensive debian use.. Zones and ZFS are the main reason, and so far I've been very impressed w/ what I've seen.
[16:24:51] <whaq> klivi, I'm sure there's ome method to have jumpstart install for it then?
[16:25:13] <kiivi> whaq: yes. But for that one has to first install Solaris and setup the jumpstart server.
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[16:25:23] <Stric> but you still have to download cd/dvd images
[16:25:48] <kiivi> setting up jumpstart on non-solaris is non-trivial (although there was some blog on how to do that).
[16:26:35] <quasi> or if you're not in a hurry - http://www2.sun.de/dc/forms/reg_us_2211_391.jsp
[16:27:00] <kiivi> Stric: it gets extra fun with a scsi-only machine with a cdrom drive that is very picky and does not like CD-Rs very much.
[16:27:43] <whaq> klivi, that means if you setup a jumpstart server w/ your 100mbps connection then you can make that procedure a reality for the rest of you 100mbps-ers :P
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[16:43:33] * whaq <3 Nexenta
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[17:16:05] <nachox> smf logs early boot errors in /var/svc/log right?
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[17:22:23] <timelyx> did gman declare 53 ok? i want to know if i can install it say 20hrs from now
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[17:37:21] <leal> i did that sometime ago... how can i change back to old cde login screen?
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[17:57:51] <nachox> anyone willing to give me a hand with an nv_42 that does not work anymore? i cant login from the console or ssh, i dont have a serial cable to play with
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[18:00:04] <Yamazaki-kun> Does it respond to pings?
[18:01:08] <nachox> yes, it does
[18:01:25] <richlowe> do you know how you caused this to happen?
[18:02:00] <richlowe> (wondering if you could bring it up under kmdb, then reproduce)
[18:02:29] <nachox> i ran fsck on the filesystem and it appeared to be very broken
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[18:03:04] * dlg yawn
[18:03:14] <nachox> i can boot it in failsafe and check any logs by mounting the fs in /a
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[18:03:51] <leal> alanc: you should know...
[18:04:21] <nachox> the service that seems to be failing is console-login, but the logs in /var/adm are not very helpfu
[18:04:22] <leal> alanc: how can i change the dtlogin to the old style? (solaris 9)?
[18:04:23] <nachox> l
[18:04:33] <richlowe> nachox: if console-login fails, you should be getting sulogin.
[18:04:48] <richlowe> (though I'm not 100% sure that's true if console-login fails, but everything else works)
[18:04:53] <richlowe> it should be, but I'm not certain it is :)
[18:05:09] <leal> alanc: i mean, with just a centralized login, and a small picture (like the screensaver).
[18:05:26] <nachox> when i use ssh i get pam related errors about not being able to open some files
[18:06:27] <nachox> logging in through jds obviously fails too, and the x server crashes
[18:09:15] <tomww> nachox: if you look at /a/var/svc/log  and ls -axltr, what service-logs at the end show meaningfull errors?
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[18:13:35] <nachox> system-console shows some errors about finishing because every process died or something like that
[18:13:54] <nachox> give me a sec and i'll copy the msg exactlyy
[18:16:08] <whaq> nachox, have you saved all the pertinent data while in failsafe?
[18:16:18] <nachox> stopping because all processes in service failed
[18:16:34] <nachox> s/failed/exited/
[18:16:56] <nachox> i'm not writing anything, yet, i'm just reading files
[18:17:05] <whaq> Q: Can i change the root shell to /bin/bash on OX b50?
[18:18:18] <tomww> whaq: /bin is a symlink into /usr
[18:18:36] <tomww> if you like your system in maintenance without /usr ....
[18:18:59] <tomww> i would prefer a .profile with an "exec /usr/bin/bash" at the end.
[18:19:50] <nachox> ugly hack
[18:20:39] <tomww> if you don't trust every shell-script having the right shell as the first line...
[18:21:20] <tomww> slightly better to leave the root-shell at the default (my choice)
[18:25:30] <whaq> tomww so it'll work if i set root shell in /etc/passwd to /usr/bin/bash?
[18:26:39] <nachox> ok, now i'm getting somewhere, i booted in milestone none and when i type login i get pam errors
[18:26:40] <whaq> tomww, ok. will leave it as is. thanks ,mate.
[18:26:40] <Stric> if /usr is on your root fs, you can change to /bin/bash
[18:27:27] <whaq> Stric: it's in my root fs, but i tried it w/ b46 and it couldn't boot.
[18:28:29] <Stric> I have tcsh as root shell on loads of solaris machines (2.6, 8, 9, 10), and it's not even /bin/sh compatible..
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[18:30:28] <whaq> tcsh eh? I'll check it out.. i just need command complletion and some basic shell comforts (TM)
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[18:33:36] <Auralis> zsh baby :)
[18:33:44] <tomww> indeed
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[18:38:42] <FlaT_restoring> Hi Guys
[18:40:04] <FlaT_restoring> Looking for teh best Solaris Rescue CD (Like the INSERT CD for Linux) with lots of tools on it etc?
[18:42:06] <detriment> belenix? there's not really a rescue CD
[18:42:15] <nachox> ok, it seems like the problem is that passwdutil.so.1 is missing, that's a start i guess
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[18:44:27] <FlaT_restoring> Thanks detriment
[18:44:40] *** detriment is now known as movement
[18:45:06] <FlaT_restoring> Do you know any free UFS recovery software besides ddrescue?
[18:45:43] <Auralis> use your google-fo for the coroner toolkit
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[19:01:33] <nachox> damn, not one but two broken solaris dvds...
[19:02:58] <nachox> would anyone mind sending me the /usr/lib/passwdutil.so.1 file?
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[19:12:12] <ofu_> zpool status doesnt tell me if my pool is raidz or raidz2
[19:12:21] <lloy0076> Has Sun/Anyone produced a boilerplate to put into source files which indicates said source files are placed under the CDDL?
[19:12:54] <richlowe> $SRC/prototypes/
[19:13:12] <richlowe> or, alternative, the top of near every file in ON, NWS, etc.
[19:13:15] <richlowe> :)
[19:13:22] <lloy0076> richlowe: It just dawned on me to look there.
[19:13:42] <lloy0076> richlowe: It's like 4:45AM here and I'm only awake because my stupid next door neighbour decided to play loud music :(
[19:14:42] <ofu_> oh, /me was just a little blind
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[19:18:18] <lloy0076> ofu_: I hope it said, "Bank error in your favour - you are now rich enough to employ someone to examine your zpool status and retire rich."
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[20:06:41] <onbot> commit by Phi Tran:  6424510 usb ignores DKIOCFLUSHWRITECACHE
[20:07:38] <jamesd> how dare it ignore such an important capitalized sequence of characters ;-p
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[20:09:48] <Error_404> lol
[20:10:03] * kAv_ passes a stick to jamesd with usb writen on it
[20:10:35] <jamesd> cool, i haven't had a good stick in ages...
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[20:15:38] <richlowe> now that's going to make ZFS performance on USB fun for some workloads.
[20:17:23] <boro> hello, is it possible to pkgadd from stdin ?
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[21:10:25] <quasi> boro: like pkgadd -d - ?
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[21:22:18] <Plaidrab> ping: alanc
[21:24:01] <boro> quasi: yes, does it work with "-" ? i've browser man page...
[21:24:17] <quasi> boro: try it
[21:24:53] <boro> ok, if there's no possibility ;)
[21:25:06] <boro> i don't like usual gunzip, tar and then pkgadd
[21:25:38] <quasi> can't be helped
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[21:46:34] <Plaidrab> Is Freetype not installed in a traditional place on OpenSolaris?
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[21:47:09] <quasi> most likely not
[21:47:17] <twincest> it['s in /usr/sfw
[21:50:17] <Plaidrab> Hmm
[21:50:48] <Plaidrab> That might explain some things
[21:55:40] <Plaidrab> No. DU seems to disagree.
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[21:57:46] <Plaidrab> It'
[21:57:53] <Plaidrab> It's not fontconfig2?
[22:07:15] <Plaidrab> brainfart. heh. Freetype is a 2. :) Well, I discovered I'm missing a few pkgconfig directories.
[22:27:43] <Plaidrab> hmm.
[22:27:46] <Plaidrab> I broke the linker.
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[22:30:19] <gdamore> font size="3">anyone from sun with internal bug traq access around?
[22:30:29] <gdamore> (sorry, weird paste bug)
[22:30:50] <gdamore> but i'm still looking for someone who can lookup 6323525 for me.
[22:31:32] <gdamore> (my Jetway Via C7 board panics during netboot with an error that might be due to this.)
[22:31:38] <kimc> trying to add startup for postfix with a method and manifest
[22:32:08] <richlowe> gdamore: best thing I can come up with is to look at the diffs as they went into onnv.
[22:32:31] <gdamore> i'm trying to figure out if the fix is in b50.
[22:32:36] <richlowe> Yes.
[22:32:40] <richlowe> 09dad677daab
[22:32:54] <quasi> kimc: http://cuddletech.com/opensolaris/smf/postfix.xml
[22:32:55] <kimc> if i do svcadm enable postfix it returns svcadm: Pattern 'postfix' doesn't match any instances
[22:33:05] <kimc> great thanks muchly
[22:33:06] <gdamore> richlowe: crap.
[22:33:19] <richlowe> gdamore: don't crap yet, it's opteron specific.
[22:33:30] <richlowe> oh my.
[22:33:33] <richlowe> well, not *quite* opteron specific.
[22:34:01] <gdamore> i got there from 6313890
[22:34:21] <richlowe> Well, check the cpuid.c changes in that rev.
[22:34:33] <richlowe> (some are hilariously silly, but there's also the other bits in there)
[22:34:59] <gdamore> i get a panic message: page_vpsub: bad arg(s) pp 0 *ppp f000e700
[22:35:23] <gdamore> what's the easiest way to see the diffs from a certain rev?
[22:36:11] <richlowe> hg diff -r <revbeforeit>:<rev>
[22:36:46] <richlowe> assuming your revnos match up, hg diff -r 1581:1582
[22:37:34] <kimc> quasi: the link to ben's postfix page is broken :(
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[22:38:24] <gdamore> hmm... revnos don't seem to match up.
[22:38:37] <gdamore> but this could be in a gate that is from before the hg fiasco.
[22:38:45] <quasi> kimc: not for me
[22:39:05] <richlowe> gdamore: well.
[22:39:31] <richlowe> in whatever workspace.  'hg log -k 6323525', 'hg diff -r <revnobefore thatone>:<thatone>'
[22:40:03] <gdamore> thanks.  but if you say the fixes are in b50 (and I believe you), it means I need to debug the kernel more directly.
[22:40:16] <gdamore> i might try getting a newer build, though, i suppose
[22:45:17] <richlowe> The fixes are opteron specific.
[22:45:20] <richlowe> I think.
[22:45:28] <kimc> quasi: works with firefox on opensol.. not on ie..
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[22:45:34] <richlowe> the checkin comment and CR synopsis don't match, and I'm not sure which is misleading.
[22:46:06] <gdamore> i'm pulling down b52, and also s10u2.  i'll try them both on the machine.  This is a 1.2GHz Via C7 based system, with the CN700 chipset.  It _should_ work. :-)
[22:46:18] <quasi> kimc: I don't use ie
[22:46:41] <gdamore> (Basically, I'm building this as a lower power NAS server.  It uses little power and seems to be very quiet.  But it has to boot. :-/
[22:47:28] <quasi> gdamore: it would use a lot less power if it didn't have to boot ;)
[22:47:39] <gdamore> heh.
[22:47:54] <gdamore> well, i'll post back here what i find out.
[22:48:25] <quasi> I think asyd was running on a similar thing
[22:49:42] <kimc> quasi: understand that
[22:53:29] <richlowe> gdamore: also, 6323525 includes a comment suggesting it only affects multi proc (ie cpu_t not chip_t) machines.
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[22:55:19] <richlowe> (looking at the fix, it seems that locks really were not quite actually locking)
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[23:43:04] <_william_> bn
[23:43:05] <_william_> gn
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[23:50:23] <Plaidrab> is there a reason I shouldn't use the /usr/ccs/bin/make with the Sun Compiler?
[23:50:45] <tsoome> if the Makefile is written for gnu make...
[23:51:32] <Plaidrab> I've been using gmake, but today the compiler segfaulted, so I tried to swotch back, but I wasn't forcing it to use the GNUmakefiles yet.
[23:52:48] <tsoome> and how can make make compiler to segfault?
[23:52:58] <Plaidrab> wince I don't seem to have locate or whereis ( or at least not in my path ) I wasn't sure if maybe I should be using a make in /opt/ somewhere
[23:53:12] <Plaidrab> Really bad options? I dunno
[23:53:52] <Plaidrab> I'm not terribly confident my environment is set up properly for building yet. I've never used the Forte/etc. toolsets to build before.
[23:54:26] <Plaidrab> I seem to have *several* broken things.
[23:54:50] <twincest> are you running the latest patches for studio?
[23:55:00] <darkcmd> Plaidrab, I have a question for you, has nothing to do with what you're talking about, but are you running OpenSolaris on x86?
[23:55:26] <Plaidrab> no. It's a u5
[23:57:23] <Plaidrab> The last time I built this particular project on a sparc though, I was using gcc 2.9x. It's been a long while. :)
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[23:57:50] <darkcmd> I hope my VAX fires up, been a long time since I've turned it on
[23:57:50] <Plaidrab> 2002, I think
[23:57:55] <Plaidrab> Hee!
[23:57:59] <Plaidrab> Space heater!
[23:58:17] <darkcmd> not a big vax though, just a vaxstation
[23:58:40] <Plaidrab> smaller spaceheater. :)
[23:59:19] <darkcmd> do you think it's a waste to have?





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