[00:00:00] <darkcmd> oh
[00:00:20] <tomww> i see, i should write a blog about that experience .)
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[00:03:54] <alanc> that's not good - logged into my freshly installed nv_53 as root so I could create a user account and gnome-session crashed on startup
[00:04:27] <alanc> worked fine on second login though - weird
[00:05:22] <richlowe> postrun still running?
[00:05:35] <alanc> damn, 3 bugs in the first 3 minutes of using it...I'm going to have to taunt Gman now...
[00:05:45] <alanc> hmm, could have been, I didn't wait long for it
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[00:05:53] <alanc> 4
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[00:06:03] <alanc> guess it's time to open bugtraq
[00:06:38] <richlowe> it'd totally make my day if it crashed metacity in doing so :)
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[00:08:46] <Gman> alanc, really? what bugs?
[00:09:02] <alanc> gnome-about links don't work - that appears to be 6452394
[00:09:52] <Gman> hrm, seem to be working here fine
[00:09:54] <alanc> gnome-session crashed on first login - could be I hadn't waited long enough for postrun to finish
[00:10:06] <Gman> that sounds like a bug i've been experiencing actually
[00:10:09] <Gman> punchin?
[00:10:48] <alanc> 6452394 says the workaround is to set preferred application for http to firefox - this was in a first-time user session with no preferences that I hit it
[00:10:59] <Gman> ahh, ok
[00:11:08] <Gman> i've probably got that in my config already
[00:11:15] <Gman> that's badass that we haven't fixed that
[00:11:37] <alanc> the gnome-about stupid ARC warning still says GNOME 2.6
[00:11:45] <alanc> (cosmetic, I know)
[00:11:55] <Gman> hrm, it's currently mozilla
[00:12:07] <Gman> hrm, that arc warning should die.
[00:12:38] <sickness> the gnome-war was lost at start, replace it with something more consistent like kde if you want to end the instability :/
[00:12:39] <alanc> and the new-user session dialog asked if I wanted to use CDE or GNOME 2.14 and had GNOME 2.14 listed as default
[00:12:54] <Gman> yeah, that's been fixed
[00:13:17] <alanc> err, had CDE listed as default instead of GNOME 2.14
[00:13:23] <Gman> that was also braindead
[00:13:46] <Gman> man, i can't believe no one updated the url handler
[00:13:47] <Gman> like seriously.
[00:13:49] <Gman> [sigh]
[00:14:29] <alanc> yeah - the preffered applications says my default url handler is "mozilla %s"
[00:15:11] <Gman> it's like a 2 minute fix
[00:15:13] <richlowe> isn't the new-user-session the fast user switching stuff?
[00:15:14] <Gman> i've already fixed it
[00:15:15] <Gman> [sigh]
[00:15:26] <richlowe> if so, that spreads death and destruction everywhere it goes (and I thought was disabled)
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[00:16:57] <Gman> richlowe, i don't think we're shipping it
[00:17:04] <alanc> ah, found why the default is CDE - l10n bug
[00:17:22] <richlowe> alanc: does JDS still describe itself as OpenSolaris GNOME Desktop?
[00:17:32] <alanc> since I logged in en_US.UTF-8 instead of C, and the Xresources for en_US.UTF-8 don't set the default desktop correctly
[00:17:46] <alanc> richlowe: it does in nv_53 "GNOME 2.14 for OpenSolaris"
[00:19:32] <Gman> sigh. sigh. sigh.
[00:19:42] <richlowe> Gman: hey, 2.14 was minorly bumpy too.
[00:20:16] <richlowe> alanc: so, you guys don't use any of the ON tools/copies of the ON gate tools?
[00:20:20] <richlowe> (you guys == X)
[00:20:25] <Gman> richlowe, i'm dealing with idiots.
[00:20:36] <Gman> [or at least, people who don't seem to care about the product they work on]
[00:20:48] <Tpenta> oh, do tell glynn
[00:20:51] <Gman> it's very very frustrating
[00:21:13] <richlowe> mornin' Tpenta
[00:21:19] <Tpenta> hi rich
[00:21:26] <alanc> this is why we're all installing nv_53, so we can pile on the bug reports and get it polished up for nv_54 & beyond
[00:21:51] <richlowe> Tpenta: do you need code review for the nd-bins Makefile?
[00:22:08] <Tpenta> code review is done
[00:22:08] <alanc> richlowe: not directly - we use the Sun Studio 11 tools from their internal on-tools server, but nothing under onbld is part of our normal process
[00:22:12] <Tpenta> waiting on CRT advocate
[00:22:21] <Tpenta> danek and stevel did it
[00:22:25] <alanc> (I occasionally run check-rtime & sccshist, but that's about it)
[00:22:37] <richlowe> alanc: yeah, I was meaning onbld or the gk scripts.
[00:22:48] <richlowe> Tpenta: ah, k.  Didn't know if you had thanksgiving getting in your way or not.
[00:22:53] <richlowe> (for review, that is)
[00:23:15] <Tpenta> well I"m using the "alternate" of the gk team during thanksgiving, but he was rather busy last night with another large putback
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[00:24:30] <alanc> oh, and we occassionally use webrev for large code reviews, but I don't see anything else in there we use
[00:24:50] <Tpenta> I like pbchk :)
[00:24:53] <alanc> cstyle is counterproductive when you have to sync with an upstream community
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[00:25:23] <richlowe> alanc: yeah, I'm trying to get an idea of which tools need to support which SCMs.
[00:25:31] * richlowe is rather hoping the answer isn't "all 3 for everything".
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[00:25:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[00:25:47] <richlowe> or that if that is the answer, stevel deals with all of it.
[00:25:54] <Tpenta> stevel will do it
[00:25:57] <Tpenta> :)
[00:26:12] <Tpenta> ho, hi steve
[00:26:19] <alanc> we've already told stevel he has to do it all
[00:26:21] <stevel> that's odd
[00:26:32] <stevel> i don't usually get that stomach sinking feeling until at least 10 minutes after joining this channel
[00:26:38] <Tpenta> rofl
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[00:30:04] <stevel> what have i been volunteered to do?
[00:30:10] <alanc> everything!
[00:30:16] <stevel> fair enough
[00:30:19] <Tpenta> alanc, you siad it before i got to
[00:30:19] * stevel will punt it all to someone else
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[00:30:57] <Tpenta> stevel: i've logged the rti for that usr/src/Makefile thing; it's crazy not have not done it already
[00:31:12] <Tpenta> umm i think i had too many 'not's in that last sentence
[00:31:27] * stevel not thinks tpenta not is not crazy
[00:31:42] <Plaidrab> Is there a go-to person for Freetype issues on B51? I've been trying to build a project that links against freetype for about a week now and am having some linking issues.
[00:31:43] <boyd> Not!
[00:31:49] <richlowe> Plaidrab: blame alanc :)
[00:31:55] <Tpenta> Ni!
[00:31:59] <boyd> Hehe
[00:32:06] <Plaidrab> : chuckles.
[00:32:10] <alanc> richlowe was trying to figure out which SCM's need to be supported by the onbld tools or if you'ld just have to handle all three
[00:32:36] * stevel doesn't believe we need to handle all 3 for all tools
[00:32:45] <alanc> the previous freetype guru left, so I just pretend I can do something about it
[00:33:08] <stevel> alanc: do you use anything besides webrev?
[00:33:35] <Plaidrab> I may have a simple environmental error. I'm gonna try and tweak a part of the configure script and try again. If not, i'll be baclk with an asking for help. :)
[00:33:36] <Tpenta> "for as long as they continue to pretend to pay us, we will continue to pretend to work" ? (removes toungue from cheek)
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[00:33:51] <alanc> as part of the official builds no - occasionally I manually run sccshist & check-rtime, but I doubt you'll do anything with those
[00:34:13] <alanc> okay - ld flags I can usually handle
[00:42:43] <Plaidrab> I was using the "Build a statoc binary" option and maybe that bit is busted. so I try with it off before I ask for more help. :)
[00:42:56] <OnkelSchorsch_> hm. creating a whole-root zone exposed some problems with my machine. everything excluding /opt/csw/ takes 88 minutes.
[00:43:16] <OnkelSchorsch_> intrstat shows me something unusual nge#1 |   2623761
[00:43:19] <OnkelSchorsch_> hm.
[00:48:52] <alanc> submitted 6496814 for the bug that CDE is default instead of JDS if you login in a locale other than C
[00:49:25] <alanc> now back to installing everything else on nv_53
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[01:44:29] <dlg> anyone written a driver for a pci device here?
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[02:03:24] <kimc> huh ?
[02:08:24] <dlg> huh?
[02:08:32] <jamesd_> huh?
[02:08:39] * dlg confused
[02:08:40] <jamesd_> cool..  i can play this game
[02:09:21] <dlg> is it fun?
[02:09:41] <jamesd_> i guess so.. because i'm so damm bored its hard to tell
[02:12:14] <dlg> know anything about device drivers?
[02:13:45] <jamesd_> nope... you init the driver on  modload ...  free cachees  on modunload
[02:13:56] <dlg> damnit
[02:14:15] <dlg> my driver almost works
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[02:38:35] <jmcp> morning all
[02:38:44] <jamesd_> hi
[02:40:10] <Error_404> hey
[02:40:17] <cormac_> lo
[02:44:27] <jmcp> heyhey
[02:45:44] <boyd> Morning, jmcp
[02:47:18] <jmcp> hi boyd
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[03:00:06] <delewis> ~
[03:00:18] <jmcp> boyd: http://writingenglish.wordpress.com/2006/09/12/the-25-funniest-analogies-collected-by-high-school-english-teachers/
[03:00:27] <delewis> ~~~~~~
[03:00:36] <delewis> ~
[03:00:42] <delewis> damn buffer.
[03:00:45] <boyd> Trying to make something upper case delewis ?
[03:00:57] <delewis> boyd: hehe
[03:01:27] <boyd> hey, delewis Since you're the only mplayer guy I know... can I throw a quick q at ya?
[03:01:36] <boyd> jmcp: Hah
[03:01:45] <delewis> boyd: sure
[03:02:24] <boyd> delewis: Any idea on a magic incantation to take a stream.dump that's in RM format and get mp3 out?
[03:03:06] <Plaidrab> Is alan likely to return
[03:03:14] <delewis> would a wav do? (and then you could convert it from wav to mp3 using lame or something)?
[03:03:36] <boyd> delewis: I guess... esp on stdout :)
[03:03:39] <delewis> (mplayer isn't really that good of an audio transcoder, but it can dump to wav)
[03:03:52] <delewis> in that case, mplayer -ao pcm -aofile dump.wav -vo null
[03:04:11] <boyd> delewis: M'kay... I'll give it a shot
[03:04:15] <boyd> thx
[03:04:26] <delewis> boyd: sure
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[03:05:00] <boyd> jmcp: I like the eclipse one
[03:06:30] <boyd> delewis: I don't suppose -aofile - will do what I want it to do
[03:06:42] <jmcp> boyd: I sent that list on to my mother, who is an English teacher
[03:06:50] <boyd> :)
[03:07:36] <delewis> boyd: but redirecting it to /dev/stdout might
[03:07:47] <delewis> what are you trying to do anyway?
[03:07:58] <boyd> delewis: Good idea...
[03:08:11] <boyd> I'm trying to get a real stream onto my iPod
[03:10:04] <jmcp> boyd: were you doing to dry it off afterwards?
[03:10:28] * boyd groans and rolls his eyes
[03:11:23] * Plaidrab helps boyd collect them afterwards.
[03:11:28] <Plaidrab> Damn things can be slippery
[03:11:42] * boyd bangs his head on the desk
[03:12:04] <Plaidrab> Careful. If you warp the desk the mouse don't work so well
[03:14:58] <boyd> delewis: -aofile is deprecated. Use -ao pcm:file=<filename> instead. :)
[03:15:27] <delewis> hehe, close enough.
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[03:49:06] <jmcp> !seen Doc
[03:49:11] <Drone> Doc is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Wed 22 Nov 2006 20:52 GMT, saying 'free copies of solaris 10 media - sun.com/solaris/freemedia'.
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[04:27:25] <jbk> ahh... chicago traffic...
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[04:34:16] <richlowe> alanc_away: thanks.
[04:35:28] <KingDillyDilly> Do most of you run Sun hardware or were you able to install Solaris on your pre-existing hardware?
[04:35:47] <jamesd_> yes
[04:35:57] <KingDillyDilly> Or did you consult the list of compatible hardware?
[04:36:02] <jamesd_> i've installed solaris on ibm and  vmware
[04:36:34] <dlg> ive installed it on dells
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[04:40:16] <Plaidrab> I use it only on Sparcs. I like the way the koolaid tastes
[04:40:43] <dlg> i hate the decisions my boss makes
[04:40:44] <KingDillyDilly> Maybe I'll work up the nerve to install it tonight, but there's indication it won't recognize my USB drive or monitor.
[04:40:47] <richlowe> Bah, two and a half different flavours, same great kool-aid.
[04:40:52] <Error_404> i bought junk hardware without looking & installed solaris on it
[04:41:08] <Error_404> IDE controller doesn't work in DMA mode, but otherwise works like a charm
[04:41:43] <Plaidrab> Oh, I hear absolutely lucious things about the AMD boxen and Solaris, I'm just not quite ready to reformat to do it. I may vmware it though
[04:41:58] <dlg> solaris feels good on real hardware
[04:42:01] <Plaidrab> I'm a little too married to FC6 right now
[04:42:35] <Plaidrab> And I'm told Solaris doesn't play too nicely with others in multiboot
[04:42:59] <jmcp> Plaidrab: that's a lie
[04:43:40] <Plaidrab> Last I inquired, it didn't like being added to an existing grub setup. Is that no longer true?
[04:43:45] <dlg> boot disk1
[04:43:46] <jmcp> it works just fine as long as you use Solaris' version of grub which understands ufs as well as everything else that Grub supports
[04:44:24] <Plaidrab> So I can add it, stop my current grub them pull my current grub settings back in?
[04:44:36] <Plaidrab> stop/stomp
[04:44:41] <KingDillyDilly> Can Solaris read NFTS?
[04:44:46] <jmcp> KingDillyDilly: no
[04:44:48] <KingDillyDilly> I mean NTFS?
[04:44:58] <jmcp> KingDillyDilly: still no
[04:44:59] <dlg> it can chainload though
[04:45:19] <jmcp> Plaidrab: when you install Solaris, grub will detect what you have there already and it should get added automagically.
[04:45:36] <jmcp> Plaidrab: it has done that for my (spit)windows(spit) partition whenever I've done a fresh install
[04:45:45] <Plaidrab> Okay. So the info was a tad stale. COol.
[04:48:02] <KingDillyDilly> What's chainload?
[04:49:10] * KingDillyDilly checked two computer dictionaries
[04:49:20] <jmcp> KingDillyDilly: a hacky way of getting a bootloader to handle an OS that it doesn't know how to handle natively
[04:49:45] <KingDillyDilly> oh
[04:53:34] <jbk> heh.. i once read an article on what you have to do to get a OS running in protected mode on x86 processors... as i was reading it, i kept wondering if rube goldberg had actually died, or went to work at intel
[04:55:13] <jmcp> jbk: were you aware that you can run 8080 opcodes directly on centrino core2 duo chips?
[04:55:32] <KingDillyDilly> Plaidrab: If FC6 means Fedora Core 6, I was about to download it but everyone seems to prefer CentOS. The competition between RedHat, Fedora, and CentOS made me nervous and uncertain, so I chose Solaris.
[04:55:33] <dvorak> 8080?
[04:55:36] <dvorak> you mean 8086?
[04:56:22] <Plaidrab> Well each has it's strengths.
[04:56:27] <jmcp> dvorak: no, I mean 8080
[04:56:37] <dvorak> you have a reference?
[04:56:50] <jmcp> it's inside the Intel i386 PRM docs
[04:57:04] <Plaidrab> Centos is, essentially Redhat. And FC is essentially Redhat Beta Beta. :)
[04:57:06] <jmcp> which of course are 9500km away from me right now
[04:57:13] <Plaidrab> But Solaris is yummy. Good choice
[04:57:16] <jamesd_> what was the 8080 about  80 instructions and  8 bit about 4 8 bit registers?
[04:57:17] <jbk> well doesn't a brand new 3.0ghz whatever still act like an 8080 when you turn it on?
[04:57:47] <dvorak> no, it's in virtual 8086 mode
[04:58:02] <dvorak> there is a big difference between 8086 and 8080
[04:58:19] * jmcp lunchesd
[04:58:22] <jmcp> s/d//
[05:00:07] <KingDillyDilly> Centos is a copycat and not run by a company. I like good old fashioned business. I get the sense that many distros aren't good enough to make it commercially and are developed by kids.
[05:00:49] <Plaidrab> I dunno about that. Many distros are by people who seem to think it's wrong to make money from yout hobby-labors
[05:00:50] <Plaidrab> :)
[05:02:14] * KingDillyDilly goes to laundry room
[05:02:27] <jbk> heh.. the more i used linux, the more it felt like a prototype gone too far :)
[05:03:30] <Plaidrab> There you go. linux is a vb Application... :)
[05:03:39] <brendang> G'Day jmcp
[05:03:51] <jamesd_> hi brendang
[05:04:14] <Error_404> jbk: no, no....
[05:04:15] <brendang> Hi James
[05:04:22] <Error_404> GNU/Linux is a printer driver gone horribly wrong
[05:04:34] <jmcp> brendang: hi!
[05:04:53] <brendang> jmcp: watching the cricket?
[05:04:58] <jmcp> not so far
[05:05:09] <jmcp> been busy with this project
[05:05:14] <brendang> jmcp: it's been bloody hard to get cricket over here in the US
[05:05:26] <jbk> well terminal emulator is probably closer to the truth
[05:05:29] <jamesd_> Error_404, linux is okay if you don't ask it to do too much and never depend on it getting the job you asked for done in the expected amount of time
[05:05:40] <jmcp> brendang: that figures....
[05:05:44] <brendang> jmcp: the only option was a broadband tv station - I paid US$99 just to watch the ashes series!
[05:05:47] <jmcp> www.cricinfo.com.au is currently my friend
[05:05:48] <jmcp> ouch!
[05:05:49] <Plaidrab> Honestly, it's mostly okay for me in the way Windows was mostly okay
[05:05:52] <Error_404> jamesd_: linux is a teamster?
[05:06:02] * jbk LOLs
[05:06:05] <brendang> jmcp: they initially advertised it at US$250
[05:06:08] <jamesd_> pretty close
[05:06:15] <brendang> jmcp: I think porn is cheaper
[05:06:20] <jmcp> yeah, it seems that way
[05:06:31] <jmcp> wow ... cricket, but only between consenting adults in the privacy of your own home
[05:06:33] <jamesd_> Error_404, and its harder than hell to kick out of the datacenter once it gets hired
[05:06:44] <jbk> depends
[05:06:49] <brendang> jmcp: what project were you doing?
[05:06:50] <Error_404> so exactly like a teamster then
[05:07:14] <jbk> if you have a lot of closed source apps
[05:07:30] <jbk> and are used to more traditional commercial unix variants
[05:07:37] <jbk> that can be enough to stop it..
[05:07:46] <jbk> we were going to go all linux
[05:07:55] <jbk> but they could never get it working well
[05:08:00] <Plaidrab> I've been debating picking up a HockeyPuck box just to learn a little bit of something diff
[05:08:05] <jmcp> ok ... definitely lunchtime
[05:08:06] <jbk> so now it basically takes an act of god to deploy anything new on it
[05:08:07] <Error_404> surprise surprise
[05:08:08] <jmcp> back in < 1 hour
[05:09:11] <jbk> now if we could just fix our broken change process...
[05:13:00] * dlg miss diff -p
[05:14:03] * richlowe mutters
[05:15:36] <Plaidrab> Sounds like my change process
[05:15:54] <jbk> well i guess you can't solve world hunger in a day
[05:16:04] <twincest> you can't integrate ksh93 in a year either
[05:16:06] <twincest> ;-D
[05:17:13] <Plaidrab> Works for me. I do not like ksh. :)
[05:17:26] <jbk> i'll be happy with working cursor keys :)
[05:18:20] <Plaidrab> I'm a Bashie these days, after a few years of csh and tcsh
[05:18:49] <swoolley> bashies rule
[05:19:16] <dlg> a dynamic bash is bigger than a static ksh on my machine
[05:19:31] <dlg> and doesnt do much more
[05:20:22] <jbk> it's all the added freeness :)
[05:20:43] <dlg> right
[05:20:54] <Auralis> zsh, the last word in shells :)
[05:21:31] <Error_404> zsh: it'll break your  scripts
[05:22:09] <Auralis> not mine, they are zsh scripts :)
[05:22:27] <Error_404> way to write portable code
[05:22:54] <twincest> why would zsh break any scripts?  if it's not a zsh script, don't run it under zsh
[05:23:00] <Auralis> yes, just the same as writing bash scripts
[05:23:49] <Auralis> except bash is worse, since linux people use /bin/sh instead of /bin/bash, and then it bombs out when encounting a real sh
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[05:24:06] <swoolley> not on a real distro
[05:24:11] <richlowe> I swear stevel made the closed-bin stuff hard to automate intentionally.
[05:24:22] * richlowe especially likes how the newest set are the middle pair in the table.
[05:24:26] <richlowe> that's a real nice touch.
[05:27:37] <swoolley> richlowe: I wouldn't put that past him ;)
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[05:32:09] <Plaidrab> Can vmware run under Solaris x86?
[05:32:22] <jamesd_> under?
[05:32:29] <jamesd_> no
[05:32:36] <Plaidrab> over? in? On top of?
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[05:32:52] <jamesd_> solaris x86 can be ran in a vhost
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[05:33:24] <Plaidrab> I was looking to go the other way around. heh
[05:33:32] <whaq> what's cookin?
[05:33:42] <jamesd_> aren't we all... but vmware won't port
[05:33:52] <Plaidrab> Pity pity.
[05:35:21] <whaq> Does anyone know if disks on a zfs pool can be moved to different interface? (ie:SATA drives moved to firewire or USB enclosure). That sounds pretty handy for emergency or maintenance
[05:35:35] <dlg> i think fs only cares about whats on the disk
[05:35:40] <dlg> not how it gets to it
[05:35:42] <dlg> zfs
[05:35:47] <jamesd_> yes
[05:36:36] <Plaidrab> That's damned neat
[05:36:55] <Error_404> which is a huge leap above other software raid solutions, where if you change controllers, your raid is toast
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[05:37:17] <jamesd_> Error_404, svm  handled it without a problem
[05:37:53] <delewis> most OSes with a properly implemented device abstraction do it correctly.
[05:38:07] <delewis> it's really nothing ZFS specific
[05:38:28] <Error_404> i remember lvm puking itself when i tried
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[05:38:44] <Error_404> or whichever one it is that linux uses
[05:38:52] <delewis> Error_404: that is because Linux does not have a proper device abstraction
[05:38:56] <Error_404> heh
[05:38:59] <delewis> devices are presented to the user in the order they are detected
[05:39:31] <jamesd_> Error_404, linux was just looking for an excuse to puke... and print the funny ascii  face with its tongue sticking out
[05:40:13] <jbk> well i get the impression that the linux lvm was at least at one point modeled heavily after ph-ux's
[05:40:18] <swoolley> udev on linux lets the userland manage device naming and not just in the order detected
[05:40:26] <delewis> jbk: no, AIX, actually.
[05:40:31] <delewis> HP-UX uses VxVM.
[05:40:47] <jbk> i mean the older lvm in 10.20 and 11.0
[05:41:14] <jbk> basically /etc/lvmtab contained the OS device path (i.e. /dev/dsk/XXX) for the disks of a volume group
[05:41:31] <jbk> if the controller instance changed, you'd ahve to run a vgscan and rebuild the file
[05:42:55] <dlg> how does solaris do it/
[05:43:27] <jbk> well veritas at least writes a unique id to each disk, and the config is done in terms of those ids, so on boot, it scans all the disks to reconstruct what is what
[05:43:46] <jbk> so it doesn't really care what the device path is, or if it changed between reboots
[05:44:00] <jamesd_> dlg, not sure.. when i moved my  disk box to another controller.. svm  just found the drives when i booted the box.
[05:44:01] <delewis> ZFS does something similar if I'm not mistaken
[05:44:03] <Error_404> IIRC zfs writes an EFI label (including a unique ID) to it
[05:44:15] <dlg> does it use ondisk data?
[05:44:58] <jbk> yes, though i believe it's a bit different in how it stores the pool topography info, but allows for the same result
[05:45:01] <KingDillyDilly> Ok, so I think I'll try Solaris. I have to partition my hard drive. Should I look at VMware?
[05:45:04] <jamesd_> most drivers have serial number in hardware
[05:45:21] <jamesd_> KingDillyDilly, vmware works great for me
[05:45:45] <swoolley> linux is also able to handle disklabels, as well.
[06:05:45] <dlg> jamesd_: i dont trust that to be there except on fc and sas disks which have wwn type stuff
[06:05:57] <dlg> but that doesnt help you move volumes between machines
[06:06:07] <dlg> i thinkt he on disk data makes more sense
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[06:06:19] <dvorak> pretty much all drives have serial numbers and have for a good while
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[06:08:34] <jbk> but on disk arrays, you can get interesting behavior depending on how you configure the ports
[06:10:06] <jbk> like all luns showing the same serial#
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[06:20:16] * jmcp returns
[06:20:26] <jmcp> jbk: that behaviour is a standards violation
[06:21:15] <jbk> i've seen high-end hitachi and emc arrays do it
[06:22:40] <richlowe> Tpenta: when did you last run -nd bins?
[06:22:48] <richlowe> uh, run as in "Generate" that is.
[06:23:13] <jmcp> jbk: those arrays should have been fixed wrt that issue several years ago
[06:24:43] <jbk> well our brand new emc dmx, we actually had an issue with some luns because our storage people forgot to set some bit, running emc's inq reported back all the same serial# for every lun
[06:24:53] <jbk> so it still seems to be there
[06:25:16] <jbk> of course i wouldn't be surprised at all if our storage group was putting in some non-standard default
[06:25:23] <jmcp> heh
[06:25:48] <jmcp> ah yes, that's true .. you do have to set up the correct mode, but once you've done that it should all be sweet
[06:26:42] <jbk> my guess would be that not having that as the default solved some issue (perhaps with another platform) 5-6 years ago
[06:27:09] <jbk> we have an issue with stuff like that (not that i suspect it's unique to our organization)
[06:27:18] * jmcp nods
[06:27:36] <jbk> come up with some workaround, and never recheck to see if it's still needed
[06:27:45] <jbk> so it stick around far loner than it should
[06:28:01] <richlowe> cargo cults are fun, huh? :)
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[06:28:33] <jmcp> yeah, ..... if you enjoying kicking yourself in the nuts repeatedly
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[06:30:45] <jbk> sometimes it feels less like a cult and more like a religion :)
[06:30:52] <Error_404> i'm still annoyed that I'm encountering a bug with no fix from 10 years ago
[06:31:01] <Error_404> oh, they "fixed" it
[06:31:07] <Error_404> in as far as now it doesn't issue warnings
[06:34:28] <jmcp> Error_404: what's the bug?
[06:34:46] <Error_404> underpriveledged user can't issue rm -r
[06:35:14] <Error_404> the old bug id is 4677347
[06:35:36] <Error_404> the fix that was provided makes it so "rm -rf" doesn't spew warnings
[06:35:50] <Error_404> rm -r still does, and that's a good thing (easier to track down why)
[06:36:31] * jmcp nods
[06:36:49] <Error_404> i have an internal ID, but such things don't help me since i don't work for sun
[06:37:02] <richlowe> "internal ID"?
[06:37:10] <Error_404> well, i dunno what it's called
[06:37:11] <richlowe> support, I assume?
[06:37:26] <Error_404> i got an email from linda bernal with a bug id number that i can't search on b.o.o
[06:37:39] <movement> what's the id??
[06:37:40] <richlowe> that isn't internal, exactly.
[06:37:45] <Error_404> 6496410
[06:37:47] <richlowe> Error_404: when did you get the ID?
[06:37:50] <richlowe> ah.
[06:37:54] <richlowe> that just won't have been pushed yet.
[06:37:55] <Error_404> this morning i guess
[06:38:04] <richlowe> b.o.o isn't live, it's updated every 24 hours-ish.
[06:38:07] <delewis> it takes sometime to bit bugs.opensolaris.org
[06:38:12] <delewis> hit*
[06:38:45] <richlowe> I have interest-list-ish updates regarding 6496847 (which I filed a few hours ago), but haven't even got linda's notification for it yet :)
[06:39:01] <movement> Error_404: I don't get your example in the new one you filed
[06:39:53] <Error_404> well, i create a directory
[06:39:58] <Error_404> then i rm -rf it
[06:40:01] <Error_404> and  it's still there
[06:40:06] <jmcp> richlowe: yup, that one's a p.i.t.a
[06:40:34] <Error_404> then i wonder "wtf?", and use rm -r, and it spits out an error "rm: cannot determine if this is an ancestor of the current working directory"
[06:40:54] <richlowe> yet more fun, since the notifications seem to be sent manually, you won't get them as promptly on weekends or holidays.
[06:40:57] <richlowe> that's even more fun.
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[06:41:10] <movement> ericr: um, you're doing something like in the original bug?
[06:41:12] <Error_404> it's wednesday
[06:41:27] <richlowe> Error_404: yeah, it's also (US) thanksgiving tomorrow.
[06:41:30] <Error_404> oh
[06:41:36] <Error_404> that i did not know
[06:41:48] <richlowe> neither did I, until earlier today.
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[06:42:26] <Error_404> movement: yeah, that was the idea
[06:42:47] <Error_404> except not with veritas, this is with zfs
[06:45:31] <Error_404> and what's even more annoying is that if i mount it via NFS, the client can delete things normally
[06:45:56] <Error_404> (eg, my laptop)
[06:51:39] <richlowe> Hm, the top of nightly's logshuffle() is real suspicious lookin'
[06:55:11] <richlowe> well, not suspicious so much as "I don't like it", I guess :)
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[07:13:47] <razrX> morning
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[07:15:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[07:16:22] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 52 | ON build: 53"
[07:20:34] <stevel> i'm dropping the 'ON nightly' from the topic now that we have nightly closed-bins and the Mercurial repository
[07:20:47] <richlowe> makes sense.
[07:21:18] <stevel> i saw your bug come in, but i'm on my nexenta laptop which doesn't seem to have a working java
[07:21:23] <stevel> so i can't launch bugster to add you to the interest list
[07:21:29] <richlowe> stevel: alanc added me.
[07:21:33] <richlowe> stevel: apparently he's psychic :)
[07:21:34] <stevel> ah okay, good
[07:22:44] <richlowe> and I finally figured out some (horrid) trickery to pull close to the right closed bins.
[07:23:17] * stevel is doing the on-closed-bins-latest.$plat.tar.bz2 thing now
[07:23:24] <richlowe> curses.
[07:23:35] <richlowe> well, I guess I get a sense of victory from my way anyway ;)
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[07:32:20] <stevel> okay, i just rewrote the push stuff, i'll let tonight's nightly be the first test case
[07:32:29] <stevel> odds are i made a typo somewhere and broke something
[07:32:32] <stevel> we'll find out tomorrow
[07:32:37] * stevel is lazy
[07:32:37] <stevel> ;-)
[07:32:59] <richlowe> Hah.
[07:33:10] <razrX> no worries stevel, we'll come nocking at your door tomorrow then ;)
[07:33:17] <razrX> *knocking
[07:33:50] * stevel won't be around, going out for thanksgiving
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[07:34:52] <boyd> Jeez... there's a lot of headsups for b54
[07:35:47] <boyd> ... mostly thanks to "Heads up: Niagara2 (UltraSPARC-T2) support in Nevada" W00t!
[07:36:00] <razrX> kool
[07:36:48] <dlg> are their t2s available yet?
[07:36:59] <Error_404> inside sun probably
[07:37:01] <Error_404> maybe
[07:37:08] <stevel> yeah
[07:39:06] * boyd drools: Niagara II NIU 10Gbit Ethernet Driver - PSARC/2006/645
[07:39:29] <dlg> is there source for that?
[07:40:01] <richlowe> Yes.
[07:40:06] <richlowe> as of earlier today.
[07:40:15] <stevel> guess this whole open source thing really works, eh
[07:40:32] <richlowe> $UTSBASE/sun4v/io/nxge
[07:40:39] <boyd> ... and that's an on-die 10GB nic for those that don't know.
[07:40:40] <dlg> any docs?
[07:40:53] <richlowe> stevel: your next step is to release docs, and fight with the lawyers about NCP.
[07:42:50] <richlowe> well, not you personally.
[07:43:18] <stevel> i've got enough going on ;)
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[07:44:55] <stevel> okay i decided to test it after all
[07:45:02] <stevel> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/nightly-bins
[07:45:13] <stevel> latest.i386 & latest.sparc will be symlinks to the most recent nightly-bins
[07:45:42] <boyd> I'm off home... check ya all
[07:45:56] <stevel> 'night boyd
[07:46:04] * boyd &
[07:46:52] <stevel> i'm heading to bed too
[07:46:55] <stevel> 'night all
[07:46:56] <richlowe> g'night.
[07:46:56] <stevel> happy turkey day
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[08:55:31] <axisys> jamesd_: like your blog on thinclient
[08:56:03] <axisys> jamesd_: i dont use cam.. wonder if i still should increase the workers to 32 on my V440 sunray server
[08:56:22] <axisys> jamesd_: also adding more memory to java probably would be a g'd idea
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[09:47:15] <Retrofite> I am trying to install, and when it is time to select disks, only the dvd drive is shown. i have checked dmesg, it shows the disk has been detected. any ideas?
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[10:21:26] <Berny> morning
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[10:22:45] <Berny> just for my understanding: if i have a zone without a separate / some packages (those which a on a shared fs) are only partially installed and all patches to those packages are only applied in the global zone?
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[10:47:40] <raph_ael> hello
[10:48:32] <Berny> morning
[10:49:53] <raph_ael> :)
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[11:03:37] <PosixCompliantNe> problems with a simple ipfilter configuration: I have created one rule in
[11:03:41] <PosixCompliantNe> /etc/ipf/ipf.conf
[11:03:42] <PosixCompliantNe> it says :
[11:03:42] <PosixCompliantNe> pass in all
[11:03:45] <PosixCompliantNe> I had uncommented the nic line in  /etc/ipf/pfil.ap
[11:03:46] <PosixCompliantNe> and rebooted
[11:03:49] <PosixCompliantNe> svcs -xv shows:
[11:03:50] <PosixCompliantNe> ioctl(SIOCIPFFL): I/O error
[11:03:50] <PosixCompliantNe> /lib/svc/method/ipfilter: load of /etc/ipf/ipf.conf into alternate set failed
[11:03:50] <PosixCompliantNe> Not switching config due to load error.
[11:04:32] <PosixCompliantNe> and svcs | grep ipfilter
[11:04:33] <PosixCompliantNe> maintenance    12:03:07 svc:/network/ipfilter:default
[11:04:41] <PosixCompliantNe> any idea why?
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[11:08:24] <boyd> Doc: ping
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[11:15:38] <razrX> PosixCompliantNe: what does the log state (/var/svc/log/network-ipfilter:default.log) ??
[11:16:04] <PosixCompliantNe> svc:/network/ipfilter:default (IP Filter)
[11:16:04] <PosixCompliantNe>  State: maintenance since Thu Nov 23 12:03:07 2006
[11:16:04] <PosixCompliantNe> Reason: Start method exited with $SMF_EXIT_ERR_CONFIG.
[11:16:04] <PosixCompliantNe>    See: http://sun.com/msg/SMF-8000-KS
[11:16:04] <PosixCompliantNe>    See: man -M /usr/share/man -s 5 ipfilter
[11:16:05] <PosixCompliantNe>    See: /etc/svc/volatile/network-ipfilter:default.log
[11:16:06] <PosixCompliantNe> Impact: This service is not running.
[11:16:12] <PosixCompliantNe> NO
[11:16:39] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, it syas
[11:16:40] <PosixCompliantNe> [ Nov 23 12:03:02 Enabled. ]
[11:16:41] <PosixCompliantNe> [ Nov 23 12:03:06 Executing start method ("/lib/svc/method/ipfilter start") ]
[11:16:41] <PosixCompliantNe> ioctl(SIOCIPFFL): I/O error
[11:16:41] <PosixCompliantNe> /lib/svc/method/ipfilter: load of /etc/ipf/ipf.conf into alternate set failed
[11:16:41] <PosixCompliantNe> Not switching config due to load error.
[11:16:42] <PosixCompliantNe> [ Nov 23 12:03:07 Method "start" exited with status 96 ]
[11:17:09] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, and I undesrstand tha SIOCIPFFL is flushing IOCTL
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[11:20:22] <razrX> PosixCompliantNe: your problem is a bit more than I can chew without more data from your system
[11:20:53] <razrX> anyone care to help Posix out here?
[11:21:01] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, it is b52
[11:21:04] <PosixCompliantNe> opensolaris
[11:21:11] <PosixCompliantNe> on x86
[11:21:22] <boyd> I've seen it before, but I can't for the life of me remember why
[11:21:22] <qdk> more data? then please use a pastebin.
[11:21:24] <PosixCompliantNe> freshly installed
[11:21:56] <PosixCompliantNe> which more data is needed ? I will help to give everything which is neede
[11:22:04] <PosixCompliantNe> s/neede/needed
[11:25:37] <razrX> PosixCompliantNe: do you still have a logfile in /etc/svc/volatile, and if so, does it contain different data or the same as the one residing in /var/svc/log (just speculating a bit here)
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[11:26:57] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, /etc/svc/volatile/network-ipfilter:default.log exists
[11:26:58] <PosixCompliantNe> still
[11:28:11] <PosixCompliantNe> timestamp of /var/svc/log/network-ipfilter:default.log is from yesterday
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[11:30:42] <PerterB> PosixCompliantNe: did you edit /etc/ipf/pfil.ap first? (see http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4554/6maoq024k?a=view) otherwise the required modules won't be on that interface's stack, which I guess could lead to the I/O error you saw
[11:31:04] <PosixCompliantNe> yes
[11:31:38] <PosixCompliantNe> I had uncommented the line which included my interface name (e100g) before reboot
[11:31:55] <PerterB> that blows that theory then :)
[11:32:01] <PosixCompliantNe> :)
[11:33:02] <razrX> has autopush(1M) done its job then?
[11:33:54] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, I assume yes, because yesterday I made a trial without uncommenting that line
[11:34:03] <PosixCompliantNe> and I saw : pfil not plumbed on any network interfaces.
[11:34:06] <PosixCompliantNe> in the log
[11:34:17] <razrX> kk
[11:34:27] <PosixCompliantNe> by log  I mean of course : /network-ipfilter:default.log
[11:35:39] <razrX> i can try the ipfilter thing on my solaris 10 6/06 laptop to see whether i get the same behavior
[11:35:54] <andersmo> To check if pfil is properly plumbed in you can run ifconfig <interface> modlist
[11:35:59] <andersmo> i.e. "ifconfig bge0 modlist"
[11:36:23] <razrX> andersmo: good tip
[11:39:12] <PosixCompliantNe> andersmo, I knew that ... a moment
[11:39:42] <PosixCompliantNe> it seems plumbed:
[11:39:43] <PosixCompliantNe> ifconfig e1000g0 modlist
[11:39:43] <PosixCompliantNe> 0 arp
[11:39:43] <PosixCompliantNe> 1 ip
[11:39:43] <PosixCompliantNe> 2 pfil
[11:39:43] <PosixCompliantNe> 3 e1000g
[11:39:59] <PosixCompliantNe> line 2 says it all...
[11:40:10] <andersmo> yep, looks normal.
[11:40:19] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, I will be gratefult if you test it in your machine
[11:40:42] <PosixCompliantNe> s/ gratefult/ gratefull
[11:43:16] <razrX> i'm rebooting my 6/06 system now (steps taken so far: uncomment bge iface in /etc/ipf/pfil.ap)
[11:43:51] <andersmo> There's no need to reboot either, unplumbing and replumbing the network interface is sufficient.
[11:44:40] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, i appreciate that
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[11:44:56] <PosixCompliantNe> andersmo, you are right
[11:45:19] <PosixCompliantNe> andersmo, the reason that i rebooted was
[11:46:00] <PosixCompliantNe> that i couldn't unplumb the nic because i am connected to that solaris via ssh
[11:46:24] <PosixCompliantNe> so umplumbing will loose connectio to solaris
[11:46:39] <lasseoe> well duh
[11:46:56] <andersmo> well, you could do it all in one command. I've done it, but having a serial console handy is nice. =)
[11:47:22] <andersmo> (especially a serial console server you can ssh to =)
[11:47:45] <razrX> andersmo: thx for that pointer but i have the same situation here, no console/(i|a)lom access/possibility here
[11:47:52] <razrX> anyways, the box has rebooted
[11:48:04] <razrX> # ifconfig bge0 modlist
[11:48:04] <razrX> 0 arp
[11:48:04] <razrX> 1 ip
[11:48:04] <razrX> 2 pfil
[11:48:06] <lasseoe> andersmo, ALOM :)
[11:48:07] <razrX> 3 bge
[11:48:18] <andersmo> Is there a word for the feeling you get when you suddenly realize that the command you just executed locked you out from the machine? =)
[11:48:26] <razrX> lol
[11:48:33] <lasseoe> andersmo: "stupid"? :)
[11:48:41] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, what svcs |grep pfil say?
[11:49:02] <razrX> # svcs pfil
[11:49:02] <razrX> STATE          STIME    FMRI
[11:49:03] <razrX> online         11:42:34 svc:/network/pfil:default
[11:49:05] <PosixCompliantNe> grep ipf i mean
[11:49:55] <razrX> it was still disabled (haven't used/configured it before now)
[11:49:56] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, it seems to work in your case
[11:49:59] <razrX> but it's online now
[11:50:37] <razrX> # svcs network/ipfilter
[11:50:38] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, may I ask : what do you have in /etc/ipf/ipf.conf?
[11:50:38] <razrX> STATE          STIME    FMRI
[11:50:38] <razrX> disabled       11:42:34 svc:/network/ipfilter:default
[11:50:38] <razrX> # svcadm enable network/ipfilter
[11:50:38] <razrX> # svcs network/ipfilter
[11:50:40] <razrX> STATE          STIME    FMRI
[11:50:42] <PosixCompliantNe> which rules?
[11:50:43] <razrX> online         11:49:11 svc:/network/ipfilter:default
[11:50:52] <razrX> same as what you suggested/described
[11:50:53] <razrX> one line
[11:50:54] <razrX> pass in all
[11:51:07] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, I don't know what to do
[11:51:23] <razrX> mind you, this is official Solaris 10 6/06 and you're using nevada
[11:51:31] <PosixCompliantNe> I know
[11:51:34] <razrX> kk
[11:51:46] <PosixCompliantNe> But I assume that such a basic thing should work
[11:51:49] <andersmo> Have you tried just doing it manually with ipf?
[11:51:53] <PosixCompliantNe> no
[11:52:12] <andersmo> It might give you a better idea of exactly what's failing.
[11:52:19] <PosixCompliantNe> what should i do? I once knwe
[11:52:45] <PosixCompliantNe> ipf -f ?
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[11:53:39] <andersmo> man ipf. =)
[11:53:56] <PosixCompliantNe> I get 1:ioctl(add/insert rule): I/O error
[11:54:41] <razrX> PosixCompliantNe: have you tried restarting the network/pfil service (wild guess) as described in ipf(1M) ?
[11:55:38] <PosixCompliantNe> razrX, yes
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[11:58:52] <quasi> hmmm, "Solaris 10 11/06 (update 3) is planned for December 2006. Please read carefully: planned. Which implies that this could change" - http://blogs.sun.com/bartm/entry/free_solaris_10%2Fsun_studio_dvd
[11:59:05] <quasi> I wonder if there will be a delay :(
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[12:00:24] <Berny> does anyone know what those fibre channel connectors are called? i have small ones on some hbas and on a 3510 and a bigger one on another hba?
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[12:02:00] <quasi> qlogic?
[12:02:38] <lasseoe> uhm
[12:02:46] <Berny> yeah one hba is a qlogic
[12:03:29] <Doc> the small ones are SF - either SFP for the removable ones like on the 3510, or SFF for the fixes ones
[12:03:36] <Doc> the big ones are GBICs
[12:03:46] <Berny> ah thanks!
[12:03:47] <Doc> or do you just mean the plugs?
[12:03:56] <Doc> the big ones are SC, the small ones are LC
[12:04:18] <lasseoe> yup
[12:04:39] <Berny> well i need to find a cable to connect a 3510 to the hba with the bigger sockets
[12:04:48] <Doc> then you want SC to LC
[12:04:53] <Berny> cheers
[12:04:55] <Doc> but keep in mind that it will only run at 1Gbps
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[12:05:52] <Berny> it's the hba that came installed with my v880 so i think it will only do 1gbit anyway
[12:06:09] <Doc> the on-board one, or on a PCI card?
[12:06:20] <Doc> yeah.. if it's SC then it's only 1Gbps
[12:06:52] <Berny> looks like onboard from the outside
[12:07:05] <Doc> then i've got some bad news for you
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[12:07:07] <Berny> at least it's not in one of the pci slots ;-)
[12:07:17] <Doc> that's a gigabit ethernet port
[12:07:23] <Berny> bugger
[12:07:26] <Doc> yes
[12:08:37] <Berny> hmm, if it's a gbit ethernet why doesn't it turn up with ifconfig -a?
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[12:09:23] <lasseoe> because it's not plumbed
[12:09:53] <Berny> ok, even when i installed that box it only showed one nic?
[12:10:21] <trygvis> you need to plumb the interface to make it show up
[12:11:18] <Berny> would that be a bge interface?
[12:11:44] <trygvis> possibly, that depends on your nick
[12:11:49] <trygvis> try: ifconfig bge0 plumb
[12:11:54] <Berny> nope
[12:12:18] <Berny> and not a hme and not eri it seems
[12:12:42] <lasseoe> according to the System Handbook for the V880
[12:12:43] <lasseoe> One Gigabit ethernet (1000BASE-SX) dual SC fiber optic port
[12:13:39] <trygvis> my v890 has eri cards
[12:13:46] <lasseoe> http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_private/Systems/SunFire880/component.rear.html
[12:13:53] <trygvis> but then again that box has a couple of extra nics so I'm sure which ones it is
[12:13:58] <lasseoe> trygvis, the 880 also has one eri port
[12:13:59] <mustang> berny: its a gemini. the ge driver.
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[12:14:35] <Berny> yeah it's ge and eri
[12:14:36] <Berny> oh well
[12:14:44] <Berny> put another hba on the shopping list
[12:17:43] <Doc> when the V880 first came out gig over UTP basically didnt exist
[12:17:52] <Doc> so they put in a 100 meg UTP, and a gig fiber
[12:18:12] <Doc> then shortly afterwards gige/utp took off bigtime, but the poor v880 was left without
[12:19:57] <trygvis> bummer
[12:20:15] <Berny> oh well that is sorted
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[12:20:31] <Berny> so the ge nic is pretty useless...
[12:20:57] <Berny> .oO(that's why i have the quad gbit nic here 8-))
[12:21:25] <Berny> another question just for my understanding: if i have a zone without a separate / some packages (those which a on a shared fs) are only partially installed and all patches to those packages are only applied in the global zone?
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[12:23:50] <Berny> if that is true - should i consider the fact that studio 11 won't install in a non-global zone because SUNWbash is only partially installed as a bug?
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[12:27:44] <Barry> Anyone know if a new engineering manager was chosen?
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[12:29:30] <PosixCompliantNe> I remeber I saw a page where there was a description of link to unsupported hw in SUN solaris. (to which there is no
[12:29:31] <PosixCompliantNe> 	  intention to supply drivers in the near future).
[12:29:39] <PosixCompliantNe> I cannot find it
[12:31:40] <Barry> I'd like to see that too. I just know the page that lists supported hardware.
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[12:36:32] <lasseoe> se noai
[12:36:33] <lasseoe> apse ai
[12:36:36] <lasseoe> oops
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[12:45:06] <Barry> Someone may want to add the word "Solaris" to the topic so this room shows up in http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&query=solaris
[12:45:53] <Barry> (and similar searches)
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[12:49:47] <Barry> Especially because when I saw "man. I haven't been f**ked like that since grade school." in the topic for #solaris, I almost headed back to Linux.
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[12:58:02] <dunc> i guess he meant #solaris
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[13:23:28] <KingDillyDilly> Sunfreeware.com only has Python 2.5 for x86. I heard that's not a stable version yet. 2.4.4 would be a better choice I think. People don't trust 2.5 yet.
[13:24:28] <KingDillyDilly> ActiveState has 2.4.3.11.
[13:27:06] <KingDillyDilly> I read that the "super patches" aren't done yet for Python 2.5.
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[13:53:05] <tsoome> T2000 and scadm support?
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[13:56:39] <PerterB> KingDillyDilly: if you look in the FTP directories, sunfreeware.com often has packages for older versions that are no longer linked from the web page
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[13:59:43] <leal> jmcp: hello.. i did found a paper from qlogic, now i have enable the qlogic BIOS to boot from SAN, but it is not working...
[14:00:06] <leal> jmcp: No available boot devices...
[14:00:25] <jmcp> that is disappointing
[14:00:35] <jmcp> I think it is possible that your system bios is the cause of the problem
[14:00:36] <jmcp> :(
[14:00:55] <leal> jmcp: Now, i'm installing the OS on the other two discs. just in case.
[14:01:44] <leal> jmcp: but now, the qlogic appears in the system BIOS. I thinking in send a email to dell to know if the motherboard supports SAN boot.
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[14:02:13] <dlg> leal: which dell is it?
[14:02:24] <leal> jmcp: It's a poweredge 850 Xeon dual...
[14:02:33] <jmcp> how old is it?
[14:03:03] <dlg> i have a 2500 that refuses to boot from anything but the onboard stuff, a megaraid, or an areca hba
[14:03:24] <leal> jmcp: for me, it's new... :)) but i dont know the fabrication time.
[14:03:31] <dlg> it hates the lsi hbas and the compaq raid adapters
[14:03:37] <boro> test
[14:03:42] <leal> jmcp: maybe the BIOS release?
[14:03:47] <KingDillyDilly> PerterB: Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
[14:04:57] <jmcp> leal: yes. is there a date on the bios ?
[14:05:08] <jmcp> boro: !test
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[14:05:50] <leal> jmcp: Now, i'm installing the OS as i said, after that i will look and tell you.
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[14:07:01] <leal> jmcp: i was looking on dell, but can't find a compatibility list, or something...
[14:08:16] <jmcp> leal: it might be the case that the bios does not support booting from anything except the internal devices (ata/atapi)
[14:09:04] <leal> jmcp: how can i check that? I mean, for sure...
[14:09:19] <jmcp> I don't know.... trial and error, I'm sorry to say
[14:09:39] <jmcp> put it this way - as long as your bios can cope, then qlgc2200/qlc cards can be used to boot from
[14:10:24] <leal> jmcp: Ok, so, plan B... Do you know how can i create a Solaris bootable CD, to load the driver and boot from that disc?
[14:10:31] <leal> jmcp: the old fashion... :))
[14:11:10] <leal> jmcp: i use to do that for linux..
[14:11:19] <jmcp> I don't think you are asking the correct questions
[14:11:23] <jmcp> hang on a sec....
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[14:12:09] <jmcp> what you could do is install grub on one of your internal disks, and tell grub to boot from the qlc-attached disk
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[14:13:07] <dlg> but grub uses int10 hooks at that point right?
[14:13:22] <dlg> if the qla set those up, you'd also be able to boot from it wouldnt you?
[14:13:31] <leal> ok, i can do that.. but i want to do it on the CDROM. I want "Independence" from the machine...
[14:13:31] <jmcp> you would hope so
[14:13:45] <jmcp> I do not have the knowledge to help you there
[14:14:05] <jmcp> dlg: yes, but .... some bioses do not pay attention to the full "specification" for booting
[14:14:36] <dlg> true
[14:14:51] <dlg> id be surprised if the dells didnt like the qlogics though
[14:15:04] <dlg> im sure the hbas would be qualified on some dell gear cos of emc
[14:15:10] <leal> jmcp: In linux i load the kernel from the CDROM (with isolinux), load the qla2200 driver (initrd), and mount the rootfs on the simmetrix.
[14:15:42] <leal> jmcp: I'm thinking, there is a way to do it with solaris too.
[14:16:02] <jmcp> yeah, I'm sure that there is. I just do not know how to do it
[14:16:04] <leal> jmcp: I just dont know how. :))
[14:16:07] <jmcp> so don't ask me, ask somebody else
[14:16:21] <leal> jmcp; Oh, ok.
[14:16:37] <jmcp> leal: probably you should ask Moinak Ghosh or Erast Benson
[14:16:48] <tsoome> for solaris you can do similar things
[14:18:43] <tsoome> but for x86 you have to modify boot archive to include drivers...
[14:19:42] <leal> tsoome: yeah, i did it sometime ago... there is a utility to uncompress the boot archive, and add drivers..
[14:19:53] <tsoome> yes
[14:20:12] <tsoome> rootfs spec could be tricky as well
[14:20:29] <leal> tsoome: i just dont know if i can pass just the rootfs to the grub..
[14:20:40] <leal> tsoome: if so, will be easy..
[14:21:20] <leal> tsoome: In linux, after load the driver, the next task is mount the rootfs, and the system is bring up.
[14:22:16] <tsoome> you can specify boot devs in grub config
[14:22:50] <tsoome> bootadm list-menu should show....
[14:24:21] <leal> tsoome: i will try with usb devices, so if work, i burn a CD.
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[14:27:24] <jmcp> leal: /platform/i86pc/boot_archive is a gzipped iso9660 image
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[14:29:16] <tsoome> leal:  you should be able to set root device with bootpath property in grub, like -B bootpath=....
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[14:34:57] <PosixCompliantNe> any idea whrere dependencies of services (smf) are defined ?
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[14:36:31] <jmcp> PosixCompliantNe: rtfm for svccfg
[14:36:59] <PosixCompliantNe> reading...
[14:37:20] <sickness> good afternoon
[14:38:43] <leal> jmcp: i will look at dell.com the bios version is A03
[14:39:11] <leal> jmcp: i coud not see a date.. but i agree with you.
[14:39:18] <jmcp> phew
[14:39:24] <leal> jmcp: maybe a update..
[14:39:33] <dlg> leal: do you see the qlogic hba spit stuff out when you turn the machine up?
[14:39:51] <leal> dlg: yes.
[14:40:06] <dlg> leal: does it say something like "qlogic bios NOT INSTALLED!"?
[14:40:32] <leal> dlg: not, that was before i hit "Ctrl Q" and enable it. :)
[14:41:04] <dlg> do you have to nominate a lun to boot from in the qlogic bios thing?
[14:41:32] <leal> dlg: that is a question??
[14:41:37] <dlg> yes
[14:42:09] <dlg> we have qlogics in some boxes at work, but we dont boot from them
[14:42:11] <leal> dlg: i have to select the Port number.
[14:42:15] <dlg> so ive never played with it
[14:42:24] <dlg> are they dual port hbas?
[14:42:51] <leal> dlg: ok, you have a email, i can send to you a paper whith the BIOS configurations.
[14:43:12] <dlg> i think i read them a long long time ago
[14:43:40] <dlg> and im pretty sure you have to select a lun to boot from
[14:44:10] <leal> dlg: in fact, is just select "host adapter settings", enable the BIOS and select the Fiber channel.
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[14:44:49] <leal> dlg: maybe, but i dont have that option in the bios. system bios or qlogic.
[14:45:43] <leal> dlg: i thing that too, but i could not find the LUN's... just PN adn PID.
[14:45:46] <leal> and..
[14:45:53] <dlg> hrm
[14:46:03] <dlg> im reading some crazy qlogic whitepaper
[14:46:50] <dlg> so you've gone ctrl-q to get into the qlogic bios
[14:46:59] <dlg> then gone to config settings
[14:47:08] <dlg> then host adapter settings
[14:47:14] <dlg> you've enabled the host adapter bios
[14:47:23] <dlg> right?
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[14:49:14] <leal> dlg: yes.
[14:49:17] <dlg> ok
[14:49:19] <dlg> thats half of it
[14:49:28] <leal> dlg: so... :)
[14:49:31] <dlg> then in the host adapter settings menu
[14:49:39] <dlg> did you go into the selectable boot settings?
[14:49:45] <dlg> and nominate a boot port and lun?
[14:49:46] <leal> yes
[14:49:53] <leal> yes
[14:50:19] <leal> but that, selected a PN, the lun is always 0.
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[14:50:50] <dlg> as far as i know that should be enough
[14:51:00] <dlg> you should be able to install onto that lun and then boot off it
[14:51:26] <leal> i think is not a bios problem... i get this screen: http://support.dell.com//support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?docid=CAC2A54EE8CD5D3EE030A68F73283DB6&c=br&l=pt&s=dhs
[14:52:05] <dlg> you're using an emc array?
[14:52:22] <leal> dlg: yes.
[14:52:41] <dlg> poor leal
[14:52:52] <dlg> does the hba see the boot lun twice?
[14:54:18] <leal> dlg: no, that's the problem... in my case should work. in my case is "Figure 1", but does not work...
[14:54:31] <leal> dlg: i'm seeing the footer page.
[14:54:45] <dlg> you see figure 1?
[14:55:10] <leal> dlg: yes.
[14:55:53] <dlg> is there an operating system on that lun?
[14:58:14] <leal> dlg: yes. :)
[14:58:21] <dlg> i give up then
[14:58:23] <dlg> it should work
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[15:01:25] <leal> dlg: thanks, i will try to update the qla bios.
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[15:25:38] <PosixCompliantNe> is it ok to remove non true dependencies in manifest xml file of a service  ?
[15:25:56] <PosixCompliantNe> should the system be rebooted so that this change will take effect?
[15:36:51] <tsoome> xml files are just source to be imported into db
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[16:46:19] <airween> hello
[16:46:46] <airween> is here somebody?
[16:47:00] <dunc> i'm here
[16:47:07] <airween> thanks
[16:47:51] <airween> could you help me in solaris (not opensolaris)
[16:47:56] <airween> or
[16:48:33] <airween> where is solaris irc channel?
[16:48:48] <dunc> #solaris
[16:49:17] <twincest> solaris questions are fine here too
[16:49:24] <airween> there aren't anybody
[16:49:27] <airween> thanks
[16:49:39] <dunc> i'm logged in right now and there's plenty
[16:49:42] <airween> i'm looking for a better random source
[16:49:51] <airween> random vs urandom
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[16:49:59] <quasi> airween: prngd
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[16:50:13] <airween> i'd like to clear more disks
[16:50:16] <airween> with dd
[16:50:29] <airween> djgregor: dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0
[16:50:48] <quasi> airween: that's going to take quite a while
[16:51:07] <airween> but first, i made this:
[16:51:20] <airween> dd if=/dev=zero of=/dev/dsk/c0d0...
[16:52:03] <airween> dd runs about 15min, on a 9GB scsi disc with /dev/zero
[16:52:22] <airween> but with /dev/random, dd runs since more, than 1 hour
[16:52:34] <quasi> use /dev/urandom instead
[16:52:51] <airween> my idea is system doesn't has enough enthropi
[16:53:10] <airween> there are doens't runs anithing, any application...
[16:53:13] <airween> no network traffic
[16:53:22] <airween> okay,
[16:53:25] <quasi> /dev/random is a blocking device waiting for more random data to be collected - so with not much other going on, it will block for a long time
[16:53:42] <airween> quasi: thanks
[16:53:50] <airween> btw: /dev/urandom, or /dev/prng
[16:53:53] <airween> solaris8
[16:54:04] <quasi> http://www.openssl.org/support/faq.html#USER1 has some bits of explanation that covers something similar
[16:54:36] <airween> okay,
[16:54:50] <airween> system doesn't has prng... :(
[16:55:04] <airween> so, i will change random to urandom
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[17:00:27] <airween> thank you for your help,
[17:00:31] <airween> bye
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[17:25:46] <whaq> what's up fellas
[17:26:11] <jamesd__> the rate of turkeys in the oven.
[17:26:38] <whaq> nice.
[17:27:10] <dunc> lol
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[17:27:41] <whaq> are they better eaten in sandwhiches or w/ mashed potatoes w/ some gravy?
[17:28:03] <bougie> hello :p
[17:28:16] <whaq> hi bougie
[17:28:19] <jamesd__> stuffing .. and roasted sweet potatos
[17:28:40] <whaq> oh yeah.. that's some gourmet porn rite there..
[17:30:38] <whaq> hm.. is bonnie++ included in OX? I Can't find it in blastwave
[17:31:41] <quasi> it was an easy compile
[17:32:01] <whaq> compile it is then
[17:32:11] <jamesd__> whaq, most  benchmark programs insist that you build them your self...  most compile easily thankfully
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[17:34:03] <whaq> jamesd__ alright, I'll do that. Why do they insist on source-only distribution?
[17:34:23] <jamesd__> whaq, not sure, just the way they all work
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[17:35:16] <whaq> I see. Welp, no biggies.. I'm so happy I've finally downloaded b50 and have everything installed on my Athlon X2 SFF
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[17:36:03] <quasi> whaq: only b50 when 52 is out? ;)
[17:36:25] <whaq> do you know if ZFS pools can be transported to other systems w/ different bus? (ie: From SATA to USB or Firewire)
[17:36:42] <quasi> shouldn't be a problem
[17:37:01] <hali> quasi: works fine.. it's even "endian-less"
[17:37:13] <whaq> quasi: I couldn't find the download from sun.com
[17:37:24] <whaq> cool
[17:37:44] <richlowe> b52 should be linked as SX:CR, I expect b50 is express?
[17:37:58] <whaq> oh yeah, express
[17:38:17] <quasi> hali: I was just about to say it even works between sparc and x86
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[17:38:31] <whaq> i'm gonna use a pair of these babies: http://www.raidon.com.tw/web/pro-st6600.htm
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[17:39:36] <quasi> looks quite nice
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[17:40:10] <whaq> Seems the best way I could find of hooking up SATA drives to a SFF box (sata ii multiplier)
[17:41:33] <whaq> Is it worth it to jump thru all the hoops to get ZFS as root?
[17:43:57] <whaq> Alrighty, that's a no.
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[17:44:32] <quasi> I use disksuite instead for my root mirroring
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[17:44:49] <whaq> quasi, is that a software?
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[17:45:33] <Stric> disksuite is an old name for SVM
[17:45:55] <quasi> yeah, old habit
[17:45:59] <whaq> oh
[17:46:25] <whaq> I read a howto on that, seems like a lot of manual steps to take to setup mirrored root?
[17:46:47] <LeftWing> Nah, you just JumpStart it as such. =D
[17:47:23] <whaq> LeftWing, please excuse this noob.. what's a JumpStart? :]
[17:47:28] <quasi> that's what I do as well
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[17:47:45] <Stric> whaq: autoinstall
[17:47:59] <LeftWing> whaq: The Solaris configurable [auto]installation system -- you usually use it over a network.
[17:48:10] <LeftWing> Although you can use profile floppies too, from memory.
[17:48:15] <LeftWing> Or perhaps modified install CDs.
[17:48:19] <whaq> Can I use that feature on b50 OX?
[17:48:53] <LeftWing> Well you should be able to install SXCR over the network with Jump Start.
[17:48:57] <quasi> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4520 - Solaris Volume Manager Administration Guide
[17:50:01] <quasi> whaq: http://soulfood.dk/archives/2006/09/20/T23_43_37/index.html are my notes - I don't think choosing another install media should be a problem
[17:50:05] <whaq> Alright. And where can I find the appropriate jumpstart script to get mirrored root?
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[17:50:23] <whaq> quasi, cheers mate!
[17:51:55] * quasi still needs to write up how to use sds with jet
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[17:56:18] <sniffy> whaq, http://perlpimp.dk/perma/2005/10/02/JET_-_Jumpstart_Enterprise_Toolkit/ - might be somewhat outdated, but worked for me a few months ago though.
[17:58:00] <quasi> a bit sparc-ish
[17:58:39] <sniffy> Well in regards to sds it should be the same.
[17:58:42] <whaq> sniffy, cool.. *read*.. is there much difference w/ Sol 10 or 11?
[17:59:03] <whaq> great!
[17:59:42] <sniffy> sniffy, Well I managed to do it with the lastest express so I guess not except for versions not mixing (SUNW* packages) and the like. Again it "worked" for me a few months ago (on x86 too)
[17:59:50] <whaq> Hmm..btw, how sensitive are solaris to root disk location? Say if I buy a new sata controller in the future and move my boot\root drives to it. Will it still work?
[18:00:33] <sniffy> Depends on their location on the controller. I've managed to do it with exact same positions on the controller.
[18:00:34] <quasi> http://jet.maui.co.uk/wiki/index.php/MirroredSystemDisks is what I used (with a few tweaks)
[18:01:25] <sniffy> quasi, That page is a great source of knowledge except I needed it with a never VTS and more so I had to tweak some files and push stuff around to archive the "whole" thing. Hence the write up.
[18:01:30] <whaq> Hm.. maybe if I disable the onboard controller, so the new one will take its place then..
[18:01:53] <sniffy> whaq, One way yes.
[18:02:13] <quasi> sniffy: ah, your page ;)
[18:02:53] <sniffy> newer*
[18:03:00] * sniffy yawns
[18:03:06] <quasi> sniffy: jumpstarting on x86 is somewhat more involved because of the whole dhcp/pxe mess
[18:03:12] <sniffy> I need less travel and more family time.
[18:03:34] <sniffy> quasi, Well boot from a CD, use RARP + 'boot net - install' has worked before. :)
[18:03:38] <whaq> how about traveling w/ family?
[18:04:07] <sniffy> quasi, Albeit I don't fiddle too much with x86 - it was just until I got my T1000 (as in for private stuff only).
[18:04:11] <quasi> sniffy: 'boot net - install' needs obp
[18:04:16] <sniffy> whaq, No way. I would never get stuff done.
[18:04:26] <leal> dlg:hello..
[18:04:35] <whaq> sniffy haha, what'd you do?
[18:04:46] <sniffy> quasi, Well my memory fails me then. Anyhow. He wanted to know about SDS, which still applies from my write up :)
[18:04:58] <quasi> sniffy: true ;)
[18:04:59] <leal> dlg: i guess the problem is the HBA... i'm swapping it for a 2340 (2200).
[18:05:05] <sniffy> whaq, Well a totally messed up mix of semi-management, implementation, and sales.
[18:05:22] <quasi> sniffy: seeing your .dk connection - http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/osug-dk/
[18:05:37] <sniffy> quasi, I live in Spain :)
[18:05:43] <whaq> sounds fun for the whole family ;)
[18:05:46] <quasi> sniffy: luck bastard ;)
[18:05:53] <sniffy> quasi, Eventhough I'd love to join it - I'd hate the commute for the meetings ;)
[18:06:01] <leal> dlg: i think the problem is the firmware... i'm not able to choose one disc(lun) to boot. Just the FC.
[18:06:07] <sniffy> whaq, Well it's a "phase" or so I tell myself.
[18:06:35] <sniffy> whaq, As long as it's .eu travel destinations - it's fine. But for .us / .asia - it gets to suck.
[18:06:37] <whaq> lol
[18:06:48] <quasi> sniffy: yeah, I can see where an evening meeting with a couple of beers could get rather late for you ;)
[18:06:57] <sniffy> whaq, Like .es->.fr->.nl->.us->.be->.in->.es - A hell of a month.
[18:07:02] <whaq> .eu is a fine place to take the whole family too.. I just got back from some time off there last month
[18:07:05] <sniffy> quasi, Yea :)
[18:07:23] <whaq> .fr, .it, .es and .gr ..
[18:07:24] <sniffy> whaq, .eu = { .es, ... }; :)
[18:07:39] <jamesd__> why ever leave spain...  you have  paelea(sp?, that awesome  rice and  seafood dish)
[18:07:57] <sniffy> jamesd__, To be able to complete my jobfunction? ;)
[18:07:58] <whaq> tapas :>
[18:08:07] <sniffy> And yea Paella rocks :)
[18:08:24] <sniffy> Shrimp, clams, mussels, and all the good stuff :)
[18:08:34] <vaneth> Come to Poland? :>
[18:08:37] <jamesd__> not to mention,  topless  tapas  bars :-)
[18:08:48] <vaneth> s/\?/\.
[18:08:55] <sniffy> vaneth, Nice vodka marinated dishes indeed. I like Warsaw :)
[18:09:16] <jamesd__> mmmm  polish sausage   polska kielbasa.
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[18:09:43] <vaneth> hahaha ;]
[18:09:54] <vaneth> and "bigos" of course ;>
[18:10:06] <sniffy> The problem is to be able to eat all the good stuff the world has - one has to travel to get it "local" and hence in it's true form. Real bummer for people and great ride for the airlines.
[18:10:22] <ProfMikey> heh
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[18:38:09] <whaq> later all
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[19:32:52] <sunnyDay> I had tried and could not connect DS300 to solaris ; May I ask a question which is in fact not related to Solaris but more to DS300 in the hope that somebody can give any advice ?
[19:33:26] <sunnyDay> sorry , here is my question:
[19:33:43] <sunnyDay> I had tried to connect DS300 to solaris
[19:33:54] <sunnyDay> I have a problem with it
[19:34:35] <sunnyDay> the problem is related probably not to solaris but to DS300 but I want to ask it here in the  hope that somebody can give any advice
[19:34:39] <sunnyDay> is it ok?
[19:35:53] <Tpenta> you can ask, there are probablly not a lot of folks around, it being thanksgiving in the US
[19:36:31] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, thnks , I had spent quite a time on this
[19:36:49] <sunnyDay> connect the management port of controller B of IBM totalStorage
[19:36:50] <sunnyDay> DS300 with a cross cable to a solaris machine
[19:36:56] <sunnyDay> According to DS300 docs, the default  IP address of controller B is
[19:36:58] <sunnyDay> 192.168.70.124/255.255.0.0.
[19:37:28] <sunnyDay> So I set the  solaris IP to be 192.168.70.1/255.255.0.0
[19:37:41] <sunnyDay> while pinging from solaris 192.168.70.124 ,
[19:37:52] <sunnyDay> I poer I power up controller B of
[19:37:53] <sunnyDay> IBM totalStorage. I tried three times this power down and
[19:37:53] <sunnyDay> power up; I get some answers for this ping (about 4 or 5)
[19:37:57] <sunnyDay> and then there are no answers. Also of course there is no
[19:37:58] <sunnyDay> telnet to 192.168.70.124.
[19:38:09] <sunnyDay> Could it be that someone had changed the IP ?
[19:38:22] <sunnyDay> I want to emphasize one thing:
[19:38:23] <Tpenta> is that the only NIc on the solaris box?
[19:38:32] <sunnyDay> yes
[19:38:55] <sunnyDay> And this NIC is connected directly the storage
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[19:39:08] <sunnyDay> no HUB/SWITCH in between them
[19:39:11] <Tpenta> to me that netmask doesnt look right, as 192.168.70.124 is in the private class C network
[19:39:14] <sunnyDay> I tried to sniff
[19:39:29] <Tpenta> but if you are direct connect that shouldnt make a difference
[19:39:44] <sunnyDay> these what the docs say, I will look again
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[19:39:58] <Tpenta> i would have expected 255.255.255.0
[19:40:13] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, a moment, I am looking now
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[19:40:33] <Tpenta> i may not be able to help you either (and I have to run to get ready to leave for work shortly
[19:40:39] <Stric> Tpenta: that would only affect 192.168.(!70).x stuff
[19:41:04] <sunnyDay> this is from IBM  redbook: Controller A - Management port 192.168.70.123/255.255.0.0
[19:41:05] <sunnyDay> Controller B - Management port 192.168.70.124/255.255.0.0
[19:41:28] <Tpenta> as i said earlier, that *should* not affect things on this point to point, I was initially concerned that he may have had another 192.168.*.* address on the machine
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[19:42:19] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, Now I see a note there: "Note: Please note the slightly unusual network mask"
[19:42:42] <Tpenta> was snoop showing you anything?
[19:43:01] <sunnyDay> it showed the ping and the reply
[19:43:12] <sunnyDay> for 4 or 5 pings
[19:43:15] <Tpenta> what about after you stopped getting replies?
[19:43:28] <sunnyDay> only the "pings" (ARPS)
[19:43:33] <sunnyDay> NO
[19:43:37] <sunnyDay> I mean ICMP
[19:43:40] <Tpenta> that sounds more like an issue on the storage box then
[19:43:41] <sunnyDay> No arps
[19:44:28] <sunnyDay> strange thing is that there were 4-5 answers
[19:44:35] <Tpenta> agreed
[19:44:56] <sunnyDay> and I wrote a script which pings all the range 192.168.70.0 - 192.168.70.255
[19:45:00] <sunnyDay> and no answer
[19:46:43] <Stric> nmap can ping scan too :)
[19:47:17] <timeless> zfs is confusing me
[19:47:45] <jbk> howso?
[19:48:27] <Tpenta> sunnyDay, I'd be looking at the ibm box, what happens if you reset/restart it?
[19:49:53] <timeless> i have two zfs items
[19:50:02] <timeless> NAME                                                                USED  AVAIL  REFER  MOUNTPOINT
[19:50:07] <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects.0  24.5K  4.40G  24.5K  /export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects.0
[19:50:12] <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects  10.8G  4.40G  10.8G  /export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects
[19:50:44] <timeless> i can't figure out from that it both such mount points are supposed to exist
[19:50:54] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, the same
[19:51:11] <Tpenta> what i mean is, after you reset it, do you get any pings at all?
[19:51:29] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, yes; I tried it 3 times
[19:52:04] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, it could be that the default ip was changed by a sysadmin before
[19:52:37] <sunnyDay> and still in boot it first sets default IP addresses than changes to those saved inside the flash
[19:52:52] <jbk> timeless: i would think they should
[19:53:03] <sunnyDay> But I don't know how to retrieve the IP address
[19:53:30] <jbk> is it not mounted?
[19:54:10] <Tpenta> so, with only ping running   on the solaris box, you get answers within a short period after resetting the storage box. the problem definitely is the storage box and what you propose is definitely a possibiility
[19:55:28] <timeless> how would i tell? i can't remember the zfs get syntax :(
[19:55:52] <jbk> df -k, /sbin/mount ?
[19:56:08] <timeless> NAME                                                             PROPERTY  VALUE                                                            SOURCE
[19:56:11] <sunnyDay> Tpenta, I think I can know the mac address of that port
[19:56:12] <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects  mounted   yes                                                             -
[19:56:15] <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects.0  mounted   yes                                                                -
[19:56:27] <Tpenta> so snoop the mac address (snoop ether .....)
[19:56:28] <sunnyDay> can I use it to retrieve IP address (RARP or something)
[19:56:37] <timeless> /export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/projects.0: No such file or directory
[19:57:16] <sunnyDay> I will try it ;
[19:57:19] <jbk> did you perhaps mount something on top of the zfs filesystems?
[19:57:40] <timeless> not intentionally, but probably
[19:58:41] <timeless> i suppose i should ask both of them to unmount and then ask both of them to remount to their default places
[20:00:30] <timeless> ok, unmounting both of them, rmdir'ing the projects directory, remounting both of them, resulted in both appearing
[20:03:46] <jbk> i have found that sometimes old habits can get in the way with zfs -- if you're too used to doing things the hard way :)
[20:04:57] <sickness> like big files "mv" from a user home to another...
[20:05:13] <sickness> if they are different zfs filesystems, the move will be slow :/
[20:05:18] <sickness> the file will be rewritten :/
[20:05:37] <sickness> but that's the same with different ufs filesystems for homes too... I suppose...
[20:05:54] <timeless> except you're less likely to do it there
[20:06:58] <timeless> when i'm lucky i can zfs rename to move volumes around
[20:07:37] * timeless cries
[20:07:50] <timeless> i have 10g of junk in a single zfs area
[20:08:00] <timeless> and ~4g of free space
[20:14:15] <jamesd__> timeless, zfs destry poolname/junkarea
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[20:24:22] <timeless> i don't have any junk
[20:24:53] <jamesd__> <timeless> i have 10g of junk in a single zfs area
[20:25:09] <timeless> well, it's only junk in a certain sense
[20:25:10] <jamesd__> deny all you like.. your words give yourself away ;-p
[20:25:13] <timeless> it isn't disposable junk
[20:25:21] <timeless> it's just stuff i don't like :)
[20:25:26] <jamesd__> oh its toxic waste
[20:25:31] <timeless> definitely
[20:25:58] <jbk> i usually have that after eating spicy food..
[20:25:59] <jbk> err
[20:28:05] <timeless> so if i have a zfs thing rootpool/x/y/z/a/b/c
[20:28:14] <timeless> where each of x...c has 1g of internal data
[20:28:40] <timeless> and there's 3g free in rootpool, i probably can't zfs rename rootpool/x/y rootpool/y
[20:29:15] <timeless> even though i could zfs rename rootpool/x/y/z/a/b/c rootpool/c ... and then restore them
[20:30:02] <jbk> the nexting of the filesystem name is just for property inheritance iirc
[20:30:09] <jbk> err nesting
[20:31:55] <timeless> it sometimes helps me keep my sanity wrt what things relate to what other things
[20:32:02] <timeless> except when i get confused :(
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[20:35:21] * timeless chuckles
[20:35:33] <timeless> is it bad that i want gnome-system-monitor's devices tab to have a find option? :)
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[20:48:19] <reflect> evening
[20:50:06] <reflect> I was looking at the solaris HCL and my first thought was that the interface wasn't very good.. and I noted that opensolaris has no real hcl..
[20:50:08] <_william_> hi all
[20:50:29] <reflect> so I thought I'd create one..  and if you have suggestions or ideas..  let me know
[20:50:59] <reflect> or if you want to help out
[20:53:14] <reflect> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/index.html <== take a peek, search for some hw.. come with suggestions/ideas
[20:54:04] <trygvis> reflect: if you really want to put some effort into a community-driven HCL make a simple app for it
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[20:54:15] <trygvis> I'm sure you can get it hosted on blastwave or something similar
[20:54:32] <trygvis> also, an application that submit peoples configuration would be very useful
[20:54:41] <reflect> I was thinking more like a script
[20:55:04] <reflect> there are three aspects to this.. submitting, storing and displaying the information
[20:56:28] <reflect> a script would do just fine, I presume?
[21:00:32] <trygvis> for discovering all the hardware on a machine? sure
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[21:01:10] <reflect> I was thinking discovering and submitting it online
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[21:20:02] <Gman> hey hey
[21:21:40] * Gman tries to unbrickify b53 :/
[21:22:50] <Gman> Error 3: Bad or corrupt data while decompressing file
[21:22:52] <Gman> any ideas?
[21:23:20] <timeless> isn't that the one i'm supposed to install on sunday?
[21:23:34] <Gman> timeless, yeah, probably next week
[21:24:54] <Gman> hrm, looks like grub
[21:28:48] <timeless> so, are you installing the official image or testing before it gets to that state?
[21:30:02] <reflect> http://www.acggbg.org/~reflect/opensolaris/ <-- if anyone has suggestions, etc, let me know
[21:30:29] <Gman> timeless, testing internal images
[21:30:54] <Gman> they'll be out as soon as they get some testing from the various teams
[21:34:00] <reflect> constructive criticism welcome
[21:36:50] <andersmo> Gman: that is, unless it bricks too many systems? ;)
[21:37:08] <Gman> andersmo, obviously enough :)
[21:38:18] <timeless> i wonder if my new hard drive will arrive tomorrow
[21:38:34] <timeless> if it does, i could stop juggling so many tiny zfs volumes :|
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[22:02:14] <timeless> i have this "silly" app called gnome-system-monitor and i have a bunch of volumes where it reports 0 bytes for total/free/available/used
[22:02:27] <timeless> it only does this for places where my paths are fairly insanely long
[22:02:40] <timeless> say 100chars
[22:07:01] <reflect> isn't that a shell dependant issue?
[22:08:00] <timeless> no, user error
[22:08:01] * timeless sighs
[22:08:04] * timeless should sleep
[22:08:30] <jamesd__> timeless, what is the big deal,  allocate 64k for  path, no user is going to have longer than that...   and since you have maybe 2 or 3 copies of it sitting around.. no one will care.
[22:09:40] * timeless crashes gnome-system-monitor :)
[22:09:58] <Auralis> how did you manage that? looked at it? :)
[22:10:08] <timeless> i ran it twice very quickly
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[22:13:39] <smoco> jamesd_: Why do you thing ?
[22:14:29] <jamesd__> thing?  i thing because its pleasurable.
[22:14:50] <boyd> I do thing beacuse it's cheap
[22:15:05] <boyd> (morning, all)
[22:18:22] <timeless> oh darn
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[22:20:50] <gisburn> Does anyone here have a gmx.de account ?
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[22:26:02] <ultra60> I need a little help
[22:26:18] <ultra60> trying to boot cdrom to install latest opensolaris build
[22:28:44] * timeless frowns
[22:28:49] <timeless> i wish zfs rename was smarter
[22:28:58] <jamesd__> ultra60,  a little more details would be good
[22:29:26] <ultra60> jamesd__, ok I cannot get openboot to boot from cdrom
[22:29:39] <ultra60> boot crom
[22:29:48] <jamesd__> ultra60, unless you want to ship it to me, then i will install the latest opensolaris code base on it and test it out,  and return it in a short 2 years.. i must test it thoughrly
[22:29:58] <ultra60> hahah
[22:30:01] <jamesd__> probe-scsi-all
[22:30:05] <ultra60> thanks for the offer
[22:30:08] <jamesd__> see if the cdrom shows up
[22:30:09] <ultra60> done that
[22:30:12] <ultra60> does
[22:30:29] <boyd> ultra60: You will need to provide more information that "I can't get it to boot"
[22:30:30] <jamesd__> does  boot cdrom attempt to boot the cdrom?
[22:30:42] <ultra60> hng
[22:31:09] <jamesd__> reboot stop  the machine,   set auto-boot? false
[22:31:24] <ultra60> ok
[22:31:26] <jamesd__> restart the machine at the ok prompt run  bott cdrom
[22:31:28] <ultra60> I'll try that
[22:32:26] <boyd> ultra60: Was there, like, an error message or something?
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[22:34:28] * boyd looks for esr's "how to ask good questions"
[22:34:46] <twincest> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[22:35:12] <boyd> It was more a rhetorical point, but thanks :)
[22:35:34] <timeless> is there a cute way to ask if certain directories in the current directory are zfs mounts?
[22:36:33] <timeless> or rather which in a directory are not :)
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[22:36:52] <boyd> umm
[22:36:59] <ultra60> ok says cant open boot device
[22:37:19] <ultra60> I have already successfully installed ubuntu
[22:37:28] <ultra60> now I want to try opensolaris
[22:37:40] <boyd> on the same box? and boot cdrom worked ok for that?
[22:37:45] <ultra60> yes
[22:37:48] <ultra60> yes
[22:37:53] <ultra60> it worked for that
[22:38:07] <richlowe> and you're sure the solaris CDs you burned aren't screwed up?
[22:38:08] * boyd looks suspiciously at the cdrom that ultra60 is trying to boot from
[22:38:11] <richlowe> (and aren't x86)
[22:38:23] <ultra60> sheet
[22:38:40] <ultra60> i'll crack
[22:38:54] <ultra60> is there a net build boot disk for opensolaris
[22:39:08] <boyd> Not in the sense that you're asking about
[22:39:13] <ultra60> sheet
[22:39:26] <ultra60> boyd can I use openboot to inspect the disk
[22:39:47] <boyd> In theory
[22:39:58] <boyd> but it's unlikely to be useful
[22:40:13] <ultra60> ok so give me the theory
[22:40:52] <boyd> Well, OBP has drivers for accessing the device one block at a time... and it allows you you add your own code....
[22:41:15] <boyd> (in other words, for most purposes, no)
[22:41:28] <ultra60> yeah i see
[22:41:31] <twincest> no-one write a Forth md5? :)
[22:41:45] <ultra60> so I have to retry burning the first disk ?
[22:41:50] <boyd> Maybe.... the've done towers of hanoi
[22:42:09] <boyd> ultra60: Seems likely... CD images?
[22:42:14] <boyd> (or DVD)
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[22:42:39] <ultra60> i only have cd on the ultra 60
[22:42:46] <ultra60> so its 6 discs
[22:42:49] <ultra60> sheet
[22:42:52] <ultra60> old tech
[22:43:00] <boyd> What are you using to burn it?
[22:43:13] <ultra60> my mac laptop
[22:43:20] <ultra60> burnt at low speed x8
[22:43:23] <ultra60> to make sure
[22:43:28] <boyd> Hm... that's worked for me...
[22:43:43] <ultra60> what hardware u have it on
[22:43:48] <boyd> There can be some trickyness since the 1st CD has several partitiions
[22:44:17] <ultra60> man ubuntu loaded and installed flawlessly
[22:44:31] <boyd> Well, ot
[22:44:40] <boyd> have you checked the MD5 on the iso?
[22:44:52] <ultra60> I confess no!
[22:44:55] <ultra60> doh!
[22:45:01] <boyd> Do that before you burn another one :)
[22:45:18] <boyd> It's an easy job and it saves much pain
[22:45:19] <ultra60> ok
[22:45:27] <ultra60> yeah I was in a hurry
[22:45:38] <twincest> are the CD images delivered as parts, or is that just the dvd?
[22:45:43] <boyd> Just the DVD
[22:45:52] <boyd> It's to keep the file sizes below 2G
[22:46:02] <ultra60> 6 cds or 1 dvd
[22:46:03] <twincest> oh, i thought it was just to annoy people ;-D
[22:46:06] <boyd> Which is not a prob on CD images obviously
[22:47:03] <ultra60> ok just mounted disc 2 on this ubuntu laptop
[22:47:08] <ultra60> i can see info
[22:47:16] <ultra60> ut disk 1 seems fried
[22:47:24] <ultra60> might need to redo disk 1
[22:47:33] <ultra60> and then give it a shot
[22:47:58] <twincest> disk 1 isn't a normal CD
[22:48:04] <ultra60> hmmm
[22:48:06] <ultra60> meaning
[22:48:08] <twincest> i don't know if linux can mount it
[22:48:14] <ultra60> ah
[22:48:15] <twincest> it's a partitioned UFS image
[22:48:27] <boyd> On CD1 there are ~6 partitions. only one is iso9660 the others are solaris ufs
[22:48:32] <ultra60> ok
[22:48:42] <ultra60> i wonder if linux can support ufs
[22:48:53] <twincest> in theory it can read it
[22:48:58] <boyd> I think it can.. but maybe not in your default kernel
[22:49:09] <boyd> twincest: Not as basic theory as OBP :)
[22:49:14] <ultra60> i can see it too
[22:49:19] <ultra60> ok so what now
[22:49:26] <ultra60> why wont the ultra boot it
[22:49:32] <ultra60> sheet
[22:50:00] <boyd> Well... I'd like to try it on another box... but you don't have one :)
[22:50:16] <ultra60> boyd, i do at work
[22:50:36] <ultra60> :(
[22:51:00] <ultra60> when i do boot cdrom  it tr\\
[22:51:42] <ultra60> shows Boot device: /pci@1f,4000/scsi@3/disk@6,0:f File and args:
[22:51:49] <ultra60> Cant open boot device
[22:52:00] <ultra60> ?
[22:52:27] <boyd> Well, if the ubuntu cd boots from that device I think it's likely to be the disk
[22:52:34] <ultra60> hmmm
[22:52:39] * boyd didn't know there *was* ubuntu for SPARC
[22:52:41] <ultra60> no speciall boot parameters
[22:52:48] <ultra60> yeah it rox
[22:52:55] <boyd> wait... what's the HW?
[22:53:02] <ultra60> runs fines
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[22:53:14] <ultra60> sun ultra sparc 60
[22:53:32] <ultra60> scsi 9gb drive dual 360mhz with 512 ram
[22:53:33] <boyd> One moment ... that's sun4u right?
[22:53:44] <ultra60> yip
[22:53:47] <ultra60> me thinks
[22:54:33] <boyd> never mind... I thought that parition :f sounded wrong... but it's right for sun4u
[22:54:48] <boyd> Dude, I think it's the disk
[22:54:56] <ultra60> ok i TRY NEW DISK
[22:54:58] <ultra60> oops
[22:55:18] <boyd> Hehe
[22:55:25] <boyd> md5 the iso first
[22:55:34] <ultra60> OBP will boot the UFS partition of the cd ?
[22:55:37] <ultra60> ok
[22:55:42] <boyd> ultra60: yes
[22:55:59] <ultra60> boyd, thanks mate
[22:56:04] <boyd> ultra60: You know you can do the md5 on the mac, right
[22:56:05] <boyd> ?
[22:56:10] <ultra60> yes
[22:56:15] <boyd> Cool... good luck
[22:56:24] <ultra60> l8tr
[22:56:29] <ultra60> ps... happy T day
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[22:58:44] <boyd> Doc: ping
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[23:00:09] * timeless goes to write a script to work around the fact that zfs rename is greedy
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[23:01:15] <gisburn> timeless: Hi!
[23:01:18] <gisburn> timeless: http://svn.genunix.org/repos/on/branches/ksh93/gisburn/scripts/gnaw.ksh
[23:01:22] <timeless> hi
[23:01:47] <boyd> timeless: Greedy?
[23:02:03] <timeless> boyd: it considers the space required for all nested volumes
[23:02:15] <timeless> and makes sure it has enough space in the destination in order to move the volume
[23:02:38] <timeless> if all the volumes are in the same zpool, then i'd hope it could instead skip that step
[23:02:47] <richlowe> boyd: did you get the CR I linked you to?
[23:02:58] <boyd> Really? I had no idea. Maybe it wants to deal with quotas nicely
[23:03:01] <timeless> and manage to just move the single /relatively-tiny/ root volume block information
[23:03:12] <boyd> richlowe: Haven't noticed... looking
[23:03:15] <timeless> boyd: yes, it's part of the quota algorithm
[23:03:18] <richlowe> boyd: if so, could you paste it back to me ;)
[23:03:19] <timeless> i read through it a while ago
[23:03:27] <boyd> richlowe: I don't see it
[23:03:28] <timeless> it's just unfortunate, since i have 2g of space atm
[23:03:35] <richlowe> bugger.
[23:03:41] <timeless> and i'm dealing w. at least 10g of data
[23:03:46] <boyd> Lemme check upstream mail providers
[23:03:49] <boyd> richlowe: ^^
[23:03:55] <richlowe> boyd: nah, msg on IRC, not mail.
[23:04:12] <boyd> Oh... wait... lemme look at upstream IRC proxys
[23:04:20] <timeless> gisburn: cute
[23:04:44] <boyd> richlowe: You want the number?
[23:04:50] <richlowe> Yeah.
[23:04:55] <richlowe> I can't seem to re-find the mail it was from :)
[23:05:03] <boyd> 4963325
[23:05:08] <richlowe> thanks.
[23:05:09] <timeless> boyd: anyway, i basically need to do tower of hanoi in order to move my volumes around
[23:05:27] <boyd> timeless: You're in luck... there is an OBP implementation :)
[23:05:37] <timeless> obp?
[23:05:49] <timeless> although maybe if i had a hashing algorithm w/ 0 collisions, i could cheat
[23:05:52] <gisburn> timeless: I am littlebot shocked that everyone calls it "cute" ... jmcp, kupfer, april... all call it "cute" ... :-)
[23:06:16] * timeless trades gisburn a bit for his bot
[23:06:43] <boyd> timeless: http://www.kernelthread.com/hanoi/html/prom.html
[23:06:58] * timeless rotfl
[23:07:28] <timeless> but i don't have a sparc, just a poor amd_64 :)
[23:08:04] <boyd> http://www.kernelthread.com/hanoi/html/sed.html then?
[23:08:10] <_william_> is there any know issue with installation of sol10u2 into vmware 5 ?
[23:08:21] <timeless> wow
[23:08:31] <timeless> i think i'll stick with a very stupid perl script
[23:08:33] <_william_> i have a configuration error after setting up network during installation
[23:08:39] <boyd> I think there was something about microfind on vmware... not sure if it's current
[23:08:49] <timeless> since it really doesn't have the hanoi 3 tower limitation if i do things right
[23:08:52] <boyd> Oh, not it was earlier than that
[23:10:18] <_william_> thanks boyd , it's the latest workstation version. Just after answering questions about network using ipv6 or not, using nis, dns, files, root password etc... solaris cannot apply configuration and output a configurtion error, but does not tell me which parameter is wrong :(
[23:10:46] <boyd> Wierd
[23:10:50] <_william_> so i was just wondering if it is a well known issue. Otherwise i'll search tomorrow (here local time is 11PM ...)
[23:11:19] <_william_> yes boyd it's really weird, maybe i did something wrong :( i'll try on another box running linux as host, not xp
[23:12:12] <boyd> I have no experience, sorry... jamesd__ may have more than me
[23:13:17] <jamesd__> _william_, ignore it, it may just because  its not finding the machines name in the dns server
[23:14:36] <_william_> jamesd__, i was used to ignore it on sparc, but in this version i am looping on this error. Stuck with this error message
[23:14:51] <_william_> is there an easy way to retrieve log at this stage ?
[23:15:04] <_william_> even an uneasyt one ;)
[23:15:35] <jamesd__> _william_, set dns to none,  and continue.. you can configure networking later, or even  sys-unconfig
[23:17:30] <_william_> i tried...
[23:17:33] <_william_> does not work
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[23:29:18] <_william_> good night
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[23:35:59] * timeless writes http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/solaris/hanoi.pl
[23:36:50] <gisburn> timeless: internal server error
[23:36:54] <boyd> Internal Server Error
[23:37:03] <timeless> eep
[23:37:10] <boyd> I think it's trying to run the .pl as a cgi
[23:38:19] * gisburn reloads in a hope to get a root shell prompt from that box
[23:38:26] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[23:38:28] * timeless writes http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/solaris/hanoi.pl.txt ?
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[23:38:41] * timeless kicks apache
[23:39:20] * timeless writes http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/solaris/hanoi !
[23:39:41] <gisburn> data format error
[23:39:48] <timeless> it's perl
[23:39:56] <gisburn> bah
[23:40:00] <timeless> input is a fraction of a zfs list
[23:40:05] <timeless> i'll provide a sample in a bit
[23:41:35] <gisburn> "The discipline functions have been modified to allow each subscript to act independently.  Currently the discipline function will not be called when called from a discipline function of the same variable."
[23:41:37] <gisburn> ksh93 freak bug of the year... ;-(
[23:41:40] <gisburn> fixed :-)
[23:42:22] <timeless> ok, i now have 2g of space free, and none of the volumes in input are that big
[23:42:50] * gisburn just ordered a Blade1000 with 2GB and 2 CPUs
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[23:44:11] <tomww> nice :-)
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[23:45:03] <gisburn> tomww: read http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ksh93-integration-discuss/2006-July/000643.html
[23:45:12] <gisburn> tomww: I am recovering.
[23:46:08] <Auralis> yuck
[23:47:19] <boyd> gisburn: Ouch! Sorry to hear that
[23:47:28] <boyd> I didn't see it before
[23:47:33] <gisburn> boyd: that's from JUly
[23:47:40] <gisburn> two months later my car broke down
[23:48:29] <boyd> Bummer
[23:48:59] <gisburn> now someone came up with the LD_LIBRARY_PATH thing.
[23:49:13] <gisburn> every two months another hiccup in my life
[23:49:22] <boyd> ?
[23:49:29] <gisburn> uh
[23:49:46] <boyd> ksh93-discuss?
[23:49:49] <gisburn> didn't you read ksh93-integration-discuss@ and what started the latest flamewar ?
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[23:50:02] <boyd> No, I have too many lists
[23:50:05] <boyd> I'll look
[23:50:42] <Doc> ksh93 is good enough reason itself for a flame war
[23:50:53] <boyd> Hey Doc
[23:50:54] <gisburn> basically I am temped to implement what they've suggested: build ksh93 twice in OS/Net just to make it conform the "rules".
[23:51:27] <boyd> Doc: I have some people here who have to do with some work you're going to be doing apparently
[23:51:40] <Doc> hmm...
[23:51:41] <boyd> gisburn: Subject?
[23:51:52] <Doc> i wonder if google translator supports "Boyd to English"
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[23:52:20] <boyd> Doc: Unlikely... that problem is turing complete
[23:53:14] <Gman> ok, i'm back in the game.
[23:53:18] <Gman> [thanks richlowe!]
[23:53:29] <gisburn> boyd: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ksh93-integration-discuss/2006-November/001879.html
[23:53:44] <gisburn> boyd: it started with this and then half the list went down in flames.
[23:54:22] <gisburn> alanc_away: if you get two more requests to your proposal to get martin schafstall banned I do it.
[23:54:37] <gisburn> alanc_away: just three vote (excluding me)
[23:54:39] <timeless> gisburn: http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/solaris/hanoi.desc
[23:56:18] <Doc> so it was all James's fault?
[23:56:24] <gisburn> (dumb ?!) question: is half sun on vacation right now ?
[23:56:29] <gisburn> Doc: erm, no
[23:56:38] <gisburn> Doc: my fault since I wrote crappy code
[23:56:47] <timeless> gisburn: thanksgiving
[23:56:51] <timeless> in the new world(us)
[23:57:02] <timeless> unfortunately some of us are living in the old world :(
[23:57:02] <jamesd__> gisburn, i would guess 75%
[23:57:05] <boyd> Doc: Are you getting correct program info from Channel 10 at the moment?
[23:57:05] <Doc> gisburn: if you knew james, you'd know i was being sarcastic... :)
[23:57:16] <Doc> boyd: havent been getting EPG from them for at least a few days
[23:57:23] <gisburn> Doc: ?!
[23:57:26] <gisburn> Doc: please explain
[23:57:27] * boyd nods... ok.,.. not just melbourne
[23:57:41] <Doc> he doesnt have it in him to start a flame war.. too nice a guy :)
[23:58:15] <boyd> Doc: Everything on 10 claims to be Benny Hinn ! :)
[23:58:19] <boyd> (for me)
[23:58:26] <Doc> that's gotta suck
[23:58:43] <boyd> Heh
[23:59:10] <Doc> anyway, gorn...
[23:59:15] <gisburn> Doc: well, it may be nice to avoid going on rampage in the list because that automatically triggered the trolls in the last two cases.
[23:59:16] <boyd> gisburn: I don't want to start a flame war here, but from my reading of James' email it sounds reasonable
[23:59:25] <gisburn> boyd: yes
[23:59:52] <gisburn> boyd: unfortunazely he found something which forces us back to the drawing board
[23:59:58] <boyd> :(





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