[00:00:07] * Gman mails
[00:00:52] <Gman> firefox sucks too though
[00:00:57] <Gman> it's bringing my machine to a crawl
[00:01:06] <tomww> use elinks? :-)
[00:01:12] <Gman> heh
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[00:05:50] *** irc.freenode.net sets mode: +o stevel
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[00:06:28] <quasi> what's wrong with telnet as a browser?
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[00:07:33] <Gman> ok, purged jmcp
[00:07:41] <tomww> quasi: rendering is up to me, and i'm lazy
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[00:08:17] <stevel> richlowe, gman: hg.opensolaris.org/hg/scm-migration/docs should work now
[00:09:54] <Gman> remote: Repository 'hg/scm-migration/docs' inaccessible: No such file or directory.
[00:09:55] <Gman> abort: no response from remote hg!
[00:09:59] <Gman> hrm, must be doing something wrong
[00:10:55] <stevel> ??? i just cloned it
[00:11:15] <stevel> are you doing it as yourself, or as anon?
[00:11:19] <Gman> 'hg clone ssh://gman at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/scm-migration/docs' right?
[00:11:21] <Gman> yourself
[00:11:28] <Gman> myself
[00:11:29] <Gman> ;)
[00:11:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[00:11:46] <stevel> ah, then that's because you're listed as a committer probably
[00:11:47] <stevel> hang on
[00:12:22] <Gman> i should be able to clone without needing commit rights?
[00:12:36] <stevel> yeah you should be able to, but i can't kick the automounter hard enough
[00:12:41] <Gman> heh
[00:12:56] <Gman> out of curiosity, what's the difference between observer and anon?
[00:13:03] <stevel> observer gets you commit privileges
[00:13:04] <Gman> i assume none?
[00:13:11] <stevel> can't commit as anon
[00:13:13] <Gman> oh, ok
[00:13:19] <Gman> then anon should be default for all repos
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[00:13:29] <Gman> i don't really need commit rights dude
[00:14:03] <Gman> anon works like a treat, thanks heaps!
[00:15:11] <mlh> no "umpfing" in this channel please
[00:15:59] * mlh blushes
[00:16:11] <Gman> unz unz unz
[00:16:19] <boyd> This is clearly some new usage of the word "Observer" that I wasn't previously aware of
[00:16:28] <mlh> me too
[00:16:41] <twincest> <@stevel> observer gets you commit privileges
[00:16:44] <stevel> sorry
[00:16:45] <stevel> no that's wrong
[00:16:49] <twincest> this almost makes less sense than bugs.o.o :)
[00:16:50] <twincest> oh ok.
[00:16:53] <stevel> observer gives you the right to *ask* for commit privs :)
[00:17:00] <Gman> right
[00:17:01] <stevel> i.e.: project admins can only give commit privs to people who are listed as observers
[00:17:03] <boyd> Hell... I can *ask* now :)
[00:17:07] <Gman> i assume it's the same infrastructure as svn
[00:17:12] <stevel> gman: yeah it is
[00:17:15] <twincest> oh, ok, that's just silly then
[00:17:15] * stevel isn't running at 100% today
[00:17:20] <Gman> coolness
[00:17:26] * Gman thinks stevel is running just fine
[00:17:27] <mlh> more precisely it gets your request /considered/
[00:17:29] * Gman throws a bone
[00:17:37] <boyd> stevel: ECAFFEINE?
[00:17:47] <stevel> boyd: definitely
[00:18:12] <richlowe> stevel: as anon, I assume?
[00:18:47] <Gman> you won't be able to use username at hg dot opensolaris.org until you are added to the commit list
[00:19:04] <Gman> [which makes sense]
[00:19:07] <Gman> i should blog ;)
[00:19:11] <twincest> i want ON commits privs
[00:19:12] <stevel> richlowe: i added you as a committer
[00:19:15] <richlowe> he said, at least twice, only available to observers.
[00:19:20] <twincest> :-)
[00:19:22] <richlowe> so I'm *not* crazy.
[00:19:39] <stevel> richlowe: i also said, at least once today, i'm an idiot
[00:19:47] <stevel> twice now
[00:20:02] <richlowe> stevel: oh, I was purely giving evidence in my defence :)
[00:20:57] <richlowe> oh, that's going to be fun :\
[00:21:25] <Gman> richlowe, at least you can't break the build ;)
[00:21:30] <richlowe> eh?
[00:21:37] <Gman> with scm-migration/docs :)
[00:21:37] <richlowe> oh, I meant the folks staying with teamware.
[00:21:50] <Gman> who's doing that?
[00:21:52] <richlowe> nothing like tools having to support 3 different SCMs.
[00:22:10] <Gman> i don't think anyone should have a good excuse for staying with teamware
[00:22:30] <Gman> at least, not for future work
[00:22:38] <Gman> [maintaining past is probably ok]
[00:22:43] <stevel> tell you what, when i invent the giant remote controlled boot that lets me kick automountd in the arse, i'll let you borrow it for kicking DevPro and alanc ;-)
[00:22:46] <Gman> though in that case i'd encourage a branch of the tools
[00:23:01] <Gman> alanc just needs a few more resources
[00:23:21] <Gman> and to be locked up in a room for the weekend :)
[00:24:25] <noyb> resources == beer     :)
[00:24:49] <Gman> stevel, i actually think you guys have done a pretty good job with the scm infrastructure so far
[00:24:50] <boyd> stevel: Isn't that what pkill -V is for?
[00:24:53] <Gman> the jds stuff seems to be holding up really well
[00:25:02] <stevel> boyd: i thought that was vold
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[00:25:45] <boyd> stevel: Oh yeah... d'oh
[00:26:48] <richlowe> stevel: sccs* really don't need anything.
[00:26:51] <richlowe> for TW, they're there.
[00:26:59] <richlowe> anything else provides real commands to do the same stuff.
[00:27:32] <richlowe> at least, I can't think of a *sane* reason to, say, teach sccsmv to do svn mv... :)
[00:27:51] <Gman> stevel, richlowe: 6495808: anonymous access should be default and *heavily* encouraged
[00:29:15] <richlowe> Gman: am I interested in that one too?
[00:29:51] <Gman> well, i figured you were :)
[00:31:13] <richlowe> I meant on the interest list, not "interested" :)
[00:31:37] <Gman> yes
[00:31:47] <richlowe> 6495786 sank to new lows, I wondered if I'd get another like it :)
[00:32:07] * Gman intends to use the interest list as much as possible
[00:32:33] <Gman> richlowe, yeah, you'll get a new useless piece of notification :)
[00:34:07] <Gman> richlowe, how possible is it for you to get to the dev conference in february?
[00:36:05] <alanc> sure, kick at me while I'm in the lab
[00:36:16] <richlowe> no better time for it.
[00:36:21] <richlowe> the fans would deaden the noise.
[00:36:39] <alanc> you want X off teamware, you send someone to convert our trees and our custom tools
[00:36:54] <alanc> and re-train our staff
[00:37:03] <Gman> your staff of how many? :)
[00:37:07] <Tpenta> a more than fair point alanc
[00:37:39] * stevel adds a filter to add richlowe to the interest list of every bug filed against website ;-)
[00:37:40] <alanc> they're confused enough between teamware, cvs & git already - adding more systems to remember will be painful
[00:37:48] <stevel> what do you use git for?
[00:38:15] <alanc> Gman: direct staff - 5, additional people who work with the tree, probably 1-2 dozen more
[00:38:17] <richlowe> stevel: Xorg upstream.
[00:38:29] <Gman> alanc, that many? wow, surprising
[00:38:30] <richlowe> or is it just bits of Xorg?
[00:38:33] <Gman> just bits of xorg
[00:38:57] <alanc> all of Xorg upstream is on git now
[00:39:02] <alanc> Mesa is still on CVS
[00:39:09] <Gman> fun
[00:40:09] <alanc> I think Mesa is planning to move once their current release cycle is done
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[00:50:05] <raze-on> hello all, do anyone know anything about ip soure routing and how ti works
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[00:53:31] <boyd> Has anyone heard anything from the FUSE on solaris project for a while?
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[00:55:57] <jamesd_> i haven't  the fuse project probably has there hands full porting  ZFS
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[00:56:11] <Gman> the sources are now available
[00:56:16] * Gman suggests boyd reads the latest weekly news :)
[00:56:34] * boyd reads the latest weekly news
[00:57:09] <Gman> man
[00:57:18] <Gman> mediawiki sucks in its placement of the [Edit] links
[00:57:34] <twincest> gman: that changed recently, iirc
[00:57:47] <Gman> ahh, ok
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[00:57:53] <boyd> Gman: Ah... thanks
[00:57:59] <twincest> cuz they would always get messed up by floating content
[00:58:00] <Gman> twincest, hopefully genunix can catch up
[00:58:05] <Gman> oh, cool
[00:58:09] <twincest> i don't know what the change was though :)
[00:58:10] <Gman> nice to know, thanks!
[00:58:12] <boyd> Gman: What a handy resource that is :)
[00:58:17] <Gman> ;)
[00:59:02] <nachox> sarah updated fuse resently i think
[00:59:12] <boyd> Gman: Out of interest, how do you get from the mail to the URL... or do you re-read them on pipermail
[00:59:13] <nachox> hey Gman :)
[00:59:24] <eboutilier> lacaAFK: I have an RFE for you:
[00:59:28] <eboutilier> $ pkgbuild --cpan -ba <cpanmodule>
[00:59:31] <Gman> hi nachox
[00:59:39] <Gman> boyd, not sure i understand - mostly through a mail reader
[00:59:41] <eboutilier> (no spec file required!)
[00:59:44] <eboutilier> :-O
[00:59:50] <eboutilier> :)
[00:59:57] <tomww> eboutilier: :-) please, but with autmatic naming for the tons of modules on CPAN :)
[01:00:20] <eboutilier> tomww: 'twould be very cool indeed
[01:00:22] <tomww> not to forget:  pkgbuild --cpan -ba --recourse   (+kidding*)
[01:00:41] <robg> Hi all. Can someone please tell me on Solaris SunproC how do I get a list of the compiler defined constants that are used for my machine (Ultra20)
[01:01:25] <eboutilier> Since laca is AFK, I'll answer for him
[01:01:38] <eboutilier> eboutilier: "So are you volunteering to write the code?"
[01:01:42] <boyd> Gman: I mean, how do you get the URLS for the threads that you use in the news? Do you read in a mail reader and then good for the link in pipermail or what?
[01:01:45] <Gman> eboutilier, evil!
[01:01:50] <twincest> robg: try 'man cc'
[01:01:50] <boyd> eboutilier: hehe
[01:01:51] <eboutilier> Welllllllllllll Ummmmmmmmm.
[01:02:00] <Gman> boyd, yeah, i just browse through mailman and copy them in
[01:02:04] <twincest> 'cc -#' on an empty C file will also work
[01:02:09] <eboutilier> eboutilier: Yeah, that's  what I thought. Hmpf.
[01:02:18] <eboutilier> :)
[01:02:22] <Gman> though would be kinda cool if the mail to the list included some sort of X-Mailman-Archive-Link header :)
[01:02:26] <boyd> Gman: bummer... I was hoping there was a msgid->ulr tool or something :)
[01:02:33] <boyd> YEah, or that
[01:02:42] <boyd> msgid->url I mean
[01:04:03] <twincest> Gman: iirc gmane does that, use their archive instead :)
[01:04:14] <Gman> heh
[01:04:21] <nachox> Gman: hows the new gnome integration going? already flooded with bugs? :)
[01:04:26] <robg> twincest: Thx that did it
[01:04:27] <Gman> there's an open bug about that somewhere
[01:04:38] <Gman> nachox, not yet, the isos haven't been delivered yet
[01:05:21] <nachox> enjoy your last minutes of peace then, hehe
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[01:06:22] <Gman> it's reasonably stable i think
[01:06:30] <tomww> enjoy this irc-channel, it's real fun here :)
[01:07:08] <richlowe> Gman: you said that last time, too :)
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[01:07:17] <Gman> richlowe, it was!
[01:07:26] <richlowe> Well, yeah, other than on sparc.
[01:07:42] <Gman> you're just bitter about 1 bug, *1* bug!
[01:08:15] <Gman> reponse times in the team do vary unfortunately
[01:08:20] <richlowe> Gman: 3 or 4, I think. :)
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[01:11:11] <nachox> what bug? :)
[01:11:27] <stevel> richlowe is just bitter because he thought his "Java Desktop System" came with a desktop
[01:11:32] <stevel> silly richlowe
[01:11:37] <stevel> trying to drag and drop
[01:11:47] <richlowe> nachox: drag-n-crash. :)
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[01:12:29] <nachox> never had that problem, i had a ghost trashcan  though
[01:13:20] <Gman> richlowe, when you upgrade to b53, tell me if it's fixed
[01:13:25] <Gman> if it's not, i'll put pressure on our guys
[01:13:29] <Tpenta> interestign rich, i got your response before i saw my posting
[01:13:30] <Gman> because basically it's a stopper
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[01:15:17] <Gman> Tpenta, the lists seem to be running slow today
[01:15:29] <Tpenta> actually i think i got the reply direct from rich
[01:15:49] <Tpenta> richlowe, I'm actually happy for them to go into usr/src/tools/licenses as an alternate
[01:15:49] <nachox> Gman: well, it differentiates jds from other gnome distributions, and that is the reason distributions customize it ;)
[01:15:55] <Tpenta> as long as the go into the tree
[01:17:48] <richlowe> Tpenta: alanc said earlier that mail was taking a bunch of time to get back to him, too.
[01:19:55] <Tpenta> I was just commenting to stevel that the encumbered bins non-debug stuff that i'm doing could easily be broken up into 3 bugs.
[01:19:55] <Tpenta> 1. the encumbered bins stuff
[01:19:55] <Tpenta> 2. usr/src/Makefile
[01:19:55] <Tpenta> 3. licenses into the ON tree
[01:20:10] <robg> okay next question... if I have a statement #if(defined(__SUNPRO_C))
[01:20:25] <alanc> yeah, and you probably don't want to see that mail either, since we're arguing over how exactly vino will give sparc users a big middle finger sign when they try to run it
[01:20:45] <richlowe> Tpenta: I think #1 and #2 should happen together, personally.
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[01:21:05] <Tpenta> i think i could make #2 happen within days if i tried, #1 will take some time in review
[01:21:06] <richlowe> Hm, though #2 could happen without #1
[01:21:08] <robg> and the Sun compiler constat says __SUNCPRO_C_=0x580 with it pick it up?
[01:21:11] <richlowe> #1 without #2 doesn't make much sense though.
[01:21:17] <twincest> robg: yes
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[01:21:29] <twincest> robg: assuming you meant __SUNPRO_C and not __SUNCPRO_C_
[01:21:33] <Tpenta> basically i was thinking that i'd like to knock over #2 to make it easier for folks to build
[01:21:36] <gisburn> Is James Carlson here ?
[01:21:53] <richlowe> Tpenta: yeah, that makes sense.  Sorry, I was reading in a sense of ordering that wasn't there :)
[01:22:18] <Tpenta> and if we could break the licences thing out, that would also simplify matters for all of us
[01:22:23] <robg> twincest: So even though it is truncated it is okay?
[01:22:26] <noyb> is there a place where we can get details of what exactly "encumbered bins" means?  It would be great to see which binary files are encumbered and why they have this status.
[01:22:27] <Tpenta> as it loosk liek a couple of use are attacking it
[01:22:28] <richlowe> Tpenta: the webrev of kupfers contains bits of your stuff too, though.
[01:22:30] <twincest> robg: what is truncated?
[01:22:33] <richlowe> Tpenta: that's fueling part of my confusion there.
[01:22:39] <richlowe> Tpenta: (he has your src/Makefile bits, at least.)
[01:22:42] <Tpenta> which parts?
[01:22:45] <Tpenta> ahh
[01:22:48] <stevel> yeah
[01:22:57] <Tpenta> I am going to log a bug to fix Makefile later today
[01:22:58] <stevel> he said his wad might be subsuming tpenta's bits
[01:23:00] <Tpenta> and take it
[01:23:01] <eboutilier> gisburn: Probably not, but he's one of the most  prolific  e-mailers I've ever seen -- including 1:1 e-mails.
[01:23:07] <Tpenta> I'll let kupfer know
[01:23:22] <Tpenta> actually, danek can review it and he can be rti advocate ;)
[01:23:39] <gisburn> dduvall: ping!
[01:24:02] <robg> twincest: __SUNPRO_C vs __SUNPRO_C_=0x580
[01:24:17] <dduvall> gisburn: pong
[01:24:21] <gisburn> eboutilier: I am suffering from his emails already.
[01:24:28] <twincest> robg: do you mean __SUNPRO_C or __SUNPRO_C_?  i wasn't aware the compiler defined the latter
[01:24:34] <gisburn> dduvall: did you follow the ksh93-integration discussion ?
[01:24:40] <eboutilier> And now you want to IRC him too? :-)
[01:24:45] <dduvall> On opensolaris-code?
[01:24:45] <twincest> (my compile does not define __SUNPRO_C_)
[01:24:58] <gisburn> dduvall: no, on ksh93-integration-discuss@
[01:25:07] <dduvall> No, I'm not subscribed.
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[01:25:16] <alanc> even if carlson was on IRC, he probably wouldn't be here at 7:30pm (1930h)
[01:25:23] <gisburn> dduvall: the discussion that perl build by OS/net runs as part of the build.
[01:25:32] <robg> twincest: Sorry typo __SUNPRO_C vs __SUNPRO_C=0x580
[01:25:44] <twincest> robg: nothing is truncated there.  the macro is called __SUNPRO_C and its value is 0x580
[01:25:58] <dduvall> gisburn: EPARSEFAILED
[01:25:59] <Tpenta> stevel, is kupfer still around?
[01:26:00] <gisburn> dduvall: would you consider this a "bug" ?
[01:26:07] <stevel> tpenta: he's out sick today
[01:26:09] <gisburn> Tpenta: kupfer is sick
[01:26:18] <Tpenta> we already knew that, but is he around ;)
[01:26:23] <twincest> robg: #if defined() and #ifdef test if a macro is defined, its value is irrelevant
[01:26:30] <robg> twincest: Doh.. sorry my bad... new to the C thing
[01:26:54] <Tpenta> thanks steve & rich. any idea how long he's out for?
[01:26:59] <robg> twincest: But I did buy two C programming guides today
[01:27:06] <gisburn> dduvall: James Carlson raised the objection that it is a bug that a binary build during the OS/Net build is actually called for doing more stuff. Both perl and ksh93 do that.
[01:27:30] <dduvall> What does perl do during the build?
[01:27:38] <gisburn> dduvall: generate charmaps etc.
[01:27:44] * Tpenta hides as he did some stuff to perl for during the build
[01:27:47] <gisburn> dduvall: and generate more perl code
[01:28:02] <dduvall> And none of this is used to create installed objects?
[01:28:15] <Error_404> dduvall: in my experience, what perl does during the build is "crap it's pants and die
[01:28:22] <gisburn> dduvall: erm, the perl charmaps and other stuff are installed.
[01:28:32] <dduvall> Then they need to be built.
[01:28:41] <dduvall> Error_404: perl's a big scaredy-cat.
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[01:29:26] <gisburn> dduvall: would you accept the same for ksh93 ? Right now msgcc.sh is a ksh93 shell script to create the localisation catalogs for itself and all it's librearies.
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[01:29:39] <Tpenta> dduval, if i log a bug and do the fix for having usr/src/Makefile look in the right place for non-debug encumbered bins, would you review it? (both kupfer an I appear to be using the same fix in different workspaces). This would vastly simplify non-debug open builds.
[01:29:51] <gisburn> dduvall: read http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ksh93-integration-discuss/2006-November/001886.html
[01:29:53] <dduvall> Tpenta: I'll take a look.
[01:30:02] <Tpenta> i havent logged the bug yet ;)
[01:30:27] <Tpenta> the fix is actually on my blog somewhere if you want to see it ;)
[01:30:45] <gisburn> dduvall: and I am not happy with the idea to port a whole C preprocessor written in ksh93 to perl.
[01:31:58] <dduvall> Why rely on ksh93 being in the CBE, and not just use the binary that's generated by the build?  We don't support cross-compilation (yet?).
[01:32:11] <Tpenta> danek, the diff is in here: http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta/entry/non_debug_opensolaris_build_49
[01:32:14] <gisburn> dduvall: CBE=?
[01:32:19] <Tpenta> you have to scroll down a bit
[01:32:37] <richlowe> gisburn: Common Build Environment
[01:32:39] <dduvall> CBE=Common Build Environment -- what's assumed to be installed on the machine.
[01:32:52] <gisburn> dduvall: right now I am doing that for the l10n stuff
[01:33:02] <gisburn> dduvall: James Carlson is unhappy with that.
[01:33:19] <gisburn> dduvall: it may theoretically break on libc flag days
[01:33:24] <richlowe> He's primarily unhappy with you forcing LD_LIBRARY_PATH in a way that's near certain to lead to explosions.
[01:33:35] <dduvall> Ah, I see.
[01:33:36] <gisburn> dduvall: since LD_LIBRARY_PATH point to $ROOT
[01:34:02] <dduvall> And you can't run the ksh93 in the workspace without setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
[01:34:10] <Tpenta> anyway danek, I'll log that bug in the next few hours
[01:35:16] <gisburn> dduvall: we can do that in a few months, but right now the underlying workspace lacks the libraries. ksh93 in solaris is mainly contained in libraries, e.g  libshell (ksh93 core), libcmd (builtin commands), libdll (linker support) and libast (utility library like libnspr)
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[01:35:43] <gisburn> dduvall: we can use the system's ksh93 once all build machines have been updated.
[01:35:59] <gisburn> dduvall: but I am oipposed to create a "flag day" because of this
[01:36:16] <gisburn> (and force evefyone to install a statically build ksh93)
[01:36:34] <dduvall> That's ugly, I agree.
[01:36:43] <alanc> can you point to somewhere that has the ksh93 libraries but not libc?
[01:37:16] <gisburn> dduvall: and we never had problems in the last nine months by any flag day. In fact the ksh93 binaries build in B48 work with Solaris 10 update 2
[01:37:20] <gisburn> alanc: ?!
[01:37:36] <gisburn> alanc: you mean the idea with the temorary lib dir ?
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[01:37:59] <alanc> set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to a directory containing the ksh93 libraries created in the build, but not the libc created in the build
[01:38:16] <alanc> I don't know if that's a temporary directory, the ksh93 build tree, or whatever
[01:38:21] <hell`> i've got a netrat1 here that has 2 interfaces but only one comes up in solaris and in the OBP.  anyone ever seen this?
[01:38:24] <gisburn> alanc: yeah, I proposed that to kames carlson in one of my replies
[01:38:40] <noyb> Tpenta: it may have happened that you missed my question during the recent flurry of conversations.  It was about defining "encumbered bins."  Can you shed light on that?
[01:38:45] <alanc> I've tried to forget everything I ever knew about building ksh - working on the dtksh build was just too painful
[01:39:09] <gisburn> alanc: we don't use mammake - don't worry.
[01:39:15] <alanc> and the recent discussion of mysterious, unreproducible build failures reminded me of just how often the dtksh build does that
[01:39:20] <Tpenta> i did miss it noyb, i'm just looking for it
[01:39:36] <noyb> Tpenta: thanks!
[01:39:46] <gisburn> alanc: that's the test suite. and right now it was a bug in ksh93 which happens only under stress.
[01:40:06] <gisburn> alanc: so far the test suite still works
[01:40:25] <gisburn> alanc: it's just that we didn't found all bugs in ksh93 yet... =:-)
[01:41:01] <noyb> Tpenta: google returns interesting things with "solaris encumbered bins"  sorry.
[01:41:08] <Tpenta> noyb: the short answer is that the only way you can find out what is in there is by looking. Some of the licensing of the encumbered stuff prevents us disclosing why it is encumbered or who owns it, hence we take that policy for all of it's contents
[01:41:13] <alanc> I doubt you ever will
[01:42:08] <noyb> is there a ray of hope that one day...  it will all be un-encumbered?
[01:42:19] <gisburn> noyb: yep
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[01:42:38] <Tpenta> noyb, it is always getting smaller
[01:42:43] <noyb> when the patents expire in 27 years or something?  :)
[01:42:52] <gisburn> noyb: or better: we get rid of most of the stuff there, either by disclosing them or replacing rotten stuff (e.g. ksh88 with ksh93)
[01:43:06] <gisburn> noyb: (not speaking for sun)
[01:43:14] <Tpenta> not necessarily anything to do with patents. patents are a subset of Intellectual property, they are not equivalent (see david berlind's writeup on this today)
[01:43:23] <noyb> ah!  So that's what all this ksh93 stuff is about lately?
[01:43:38] <gisburn> noyb:  yes and no.
[01:43:38] <alanc> there was internal mail this week about another vendor allowing us to open source one of the closed drivers, so work is continuing there
[01:43:50] <Tpenta> alanc: i must not be on that list
[01:43:56] <noyb> so ksh is one of those EB's ?
[01:44:04] <gisburn> noyb: ksh93 is just a complex theme.
[01:44:07] <gisburn> noyb: ksh88 is.
[01:44:16] <gisburn> noyb: ksh93 is opensource.
[01:44:21] <alanc> gisburn: exactly, like getting rid of the encumbered/rotten Xsun and replacing it with Xorg 8-)
[01:44:44] <gisburn> alanc: which reminds me to complain that the vmware driver in Xorg is still garbage in B51
[01:44:49] <noyb> ok, so there's probably a *lot* of work to verify/validate that ksh93 would be a proper replacement for ksh88 ?
[01:45:02] <Auralis> apropos Xsun, is there any doc on how to define new display mods and what all the stuff in OWconfig means?
[01:45:05] <gisburn> noyb: that's an understatement.
[01:45:15] <alanc> it's whatever was in Xorg 6.9, with the one patch they asked us to add
[01:45:25] <Error_404> goddamnit
[01:45:26] <gisburn> noyb: right now we're bickering about the integration, not the migration of /usr/bin/ksh to ksh93
[01:45:29] <Error_404> it did it again: http://pastebin.com/829347
[01:45:48] <alanc> 7.2 will bring in the newer vmware driver - that's targeting nv_56 now
[01:46:13] <alanc> Auralis: I think for most of the sparc video cards, defining new display modes is a matter of editing the source and rebuilding
[01:46:33] <alanc> OWconfig is mostly undocumented
[01:46:47] <Auralis> alanc: ugh
[01:46:50] <dduvall> gisburn: I'm inclined to have the l10n stuff just not be enabled until a few builds go by after ksh93 is putback.  L10N is something that is typically delayed until late in the release cycle, anyway, for reasons I don't entirely understand (probably because it's expensive, and you only want to do it once, after the code is settled down).
[01:47:31] <noyb> I feel much more enlightened at the moment, even if we're only talking about ksh.
[01:48:00] <gisburn> dduvall: what about the idea to put only the ksh93 libraries in a temp. dir and point LD_LIBRARY_PATH to it ? that would eliminate the libc flag day problem completely...
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[01:48:19] <nachox> alanc, speaking of X and video, you have no idea when 945g cards will be supported right? :)
[01:48:59] <alanc> nachox: maybe in nv_54
[01:49:20] <alanc> I believe that's when the agpgart for i945 goes in at least
[01:49:23] <jamesd_> alanc and  zfs /  and  looking glass is being included tomorow right ;-p
[01:49:57] <nachox> really? wow, thanks :)
[01:50:06] <alanc> except the Xorg side won't be in until nv_56, as mentioned a few lines ago
[01:50:44] <alanc> and no clue about DRI support for it - I know there's an open RFE for that
[01:50:50] <nachox> that beats my "it will never be supported" expectations
[01:50:53] <alanc> and then we'll do it all again for i965
[01:51:37] <dduvall> gisburn: that's the best solution to get it working from the beginning that I can think of, but it's an ugly hack.
[01:51:40] <alanc> nachox: an x86 OS that doesn't support intel, nvidia & ati graphics is worthless - everything else is gravy, but you need those 3 for 95% of the market
[01:51:59] * nachox agrees
[01:52:02] <gisburn> dduvall: well, it works right now
[01:52:15] <twincest> alanc: do you believe that for audio as well?  because i'd dearly love to get rid of OSS :-)
[01:52:18] <dduvall> Ugly hacks can work; that's not the point.
[01:52:30] <dduvall> And just setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH is asking for trouble.
[01:52:33] <alanc> so we'll pretty much always support those 3, though the hardware we sell (nvidia cards and ATI on-board chips) is always first priority
[01:52:40] <gisburn> dduvall: it is just that there is the theoretical possbility that a libc flag day may cause trouble.
[01:52:50] <alanc> twincest: absolutely not - I know nothing about audio driver availability
[01:53:15] <dduvall> I'd be willing to entertain a solution that only runs the L10N targets' commands if ksh93 is on the system.
[01:53:15] <gisburn> dduvall: any suggestions wheren I can place such a temporary directory for the libraries ?
[01:53:44] <dduvall> This shouldn't affect a normal build, since a normal build wouldn't be doing any l10n stuff, anyway (much like people aren't required to build SUNW0on on a regular basis).
[01:53:48] <hile_> dduvall, The only time I use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, I do so in a wrapper that  calls env LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/some/dir /my/executable
[01:54:12] <nachox> alanc, i still shouldnt expect 3d acceleration to work for a while though, right?
[01:54:14] <gisburn> dduvall: it would break "makebfu" as the l10n files are part of the package system
[01:54:37] <dduvall> gisburn: they shouldn't be.
[01:54:38] <gisburn> s/system/file list/
[01:55:01] <dduvall> L10N files should always be in separate packages.
[01:55:15] <gisburn> dduvall: they are and have to be there as I've been told.
[01:55:33] <dduvall> They are in separate packages already?
[01:55:59] <gisburn> dduvall: no, they are part of the same package where csh and sh have their localisation stuff, too.
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[01:56:13] <alanc> nachox: for i945, that would be the DRI part I said I didn't know when it was coming
[01:56:14] <dduvall> What's that package name?
[01:56:17] <gisburn> dduvall: rainer orth is doing a more detailed package split
[01:56:26] * gisburn looks
[01:57:11] <gisburn> SUNW0on
[01:57:20] <richlowe> SUNW0on isn't a 'real' package, exactly.
[01:57:23] <dduvall> Ah.  Well, then.
[01:57:46] <dduvall> Like I said, SUNW0on isn't part of a normal build.
[01:57:52] <gisburn> dduvall: but makebfu is
[01:58:05] <dduvall> Yes ....
[01:58:07] <richlowe> it's delivered to the localization folks, but nobody else, iirc.
[01:58:53] <dduvall> richlowe: that's correct
[01:59:12] <dduvall> I build it once a build, rather than every night.  Nightly doesn't have any support for building it.
[02:00:08] <gisburn> mhhh
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[02:00:47] <gisburn> dduvall: Ok... do you accept the lib(shell,cmd,dll/ast).so.1 libs in temp.dir solution ?
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[02:00:55] <dduvall> No.
[02:00:58] <gisburn> umpf
[02:02:10] <dduvall> At least not until I understand why doing this part of the build is required each time you do a full build.
[02:02:14] <Axposf> (bye all,see you tomorrow )
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[02:03:07] <gisburn> dduvall: to build the message catalogs like any other application in OS/Net. Remeber the rule "no RTI approval with localisation support" ?
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[02:03:21] * boyd wonders once again why the homepage for star is under http://.../old/private/..
[02:04:03] <gisburn> dduvall: right now OS/Net has no tools to parse the AST format so we have to use the AST tools... ;-/
[02:06:11] <dduvall> All I'm saying is, don't build the .po files unless ksh93 is on the system.  It's not going to impact anyone except those who build the SUNW0on package, which is basically just me.
[02:06:44] <gisburn> dduvall: it will break the makebfu run and AFAIK many people who do kernel hacking use that...
[02:06:55] <dduvall> Why will it break makebfu?
[02:07:02] <gisburn> dduvall: missing files
[02:07:28] <dduvall> Files in the proto area that aren't in the packages, or files in the packages that aren't in the proto area?  Or something else?
[02:07:42] <gisburn> dduvall: the 2nd problem.
[02:08:03] <gisburn> dduvall: files described in the package are not available in the proto area
[02:08:25] <gisburn> dduvall: next problem is how we can handle this for the solaris 10 backport
[02:08:38] <gisburn> dduvall: the l10n files are mandatory for that putback.
[02:08:56] <dduvall> You'll have to talk to the update gatekeepers about that.
[02:09:08] <gisburn> erm
[02:09:17] <gisburn> you have more than one gatekeeper group ?
[02:09:39] <dduvall> Well, there's me for the marketing release, and then a team for the update releases.
[02:10:07] <gisburn> where is the difference ?
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[02:10:21] <dduvall> Between ... ?
[02:10:47] <gisburn> or better: What is a marketing release ?
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[02:10:58] <alanc> "HEAD"
[02:11:03] <dduvall> The current, not-yet-released version of Solaris.
[02:11:10] <dduvall> Right now, that's Nevada.
[02:11:23] <gisburn> WHy on earth is this called "marketing release" ?
[02:11:33] * gisburn can't imagine a more horrific name...
[02:11:47] <gisburn> it sounds as the marketing people are doing the hacking
[02:11:51] <dduvall> Good question.  I don't actually know.
[02:11:55] <alanc> it gets a new name for marketing (maybe "Solaris 11"), instead of just changing the date after the name
[02:12:02] <noyb> could be worse...
[02:12:17] <gisburn> noyb: examples for "worse", please ?
[02:12:46] <alanc> "janitorial release"
[02:13:21] <gisburn> rotf
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[02:13:28] <gisburn> l
[02:13:49] <gisburn> more!
[02:14:25] <alanc> "Vista"
[02:14:32] <noyb> "Shared Source" release    (associating itself with lame Microsoft practices)
[02:15:07] <gisburn> "solaris vista marketing management early release"
[02:15:22] <alanc> you forgot the Java!
[02:15:25] <Auralis> Solaris 2007 Advanged Server Professional SP3.2
[02:15:54] <alanc> Solaris Java Developer Enterprise Desktop System
[02:15:55] <gisburn> "Javaris 11 Jista Jarketing Jearly Jelease"
[02:15:57] <Auralis> Solaris 2007 Advanged Server Professional SP3.2 Enterprise Java Extended
[02:15:58] <gisburn> better ?
[02:16:14] <Error_404> Auralis: Solaris Java ONE advanced Professional Server Workstation XP 3002 early marketing release
[02:16:27] <Tpenta> you left out N1
[02:16:33] * gisburn watches dduvall exploding...
[02:16:39] <Error_404> damn. almost had it
[02:16:44] <alanc> OS/N1 consolidation
[02:17:21] <dlg> how long does smpatch usually take?
[02:17:34] <gisburn> dlg: 26h per megabyte
[02:17:38] <Auralis> between not working, half a day and forever
[02:17:39] <noyb> "Here, you fix it" release
[02:17:45] * dlg cry
[02:17:47] <gisburn> noyb: sorry, that is linux
[02:17:58] <alanc> noyb: I thought that was Linux...
[02:18:02] <Tpenta> gawd, bugster is crawling
[02:18:22] <alanc> damn, time to go home when I start thinking like gisburn
[02:18:27] <alanc> 8-)
[02:18:33] <noyb> "Shut your trap, I told you so, here it is." release.
[02:18:38] <twincest> gisburn: any word on my ksh93 query?
[02:18:44] <alanc> that's OpenBSD
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[02:18:57] <gisburn> twincest: in my drafts folder
[02:19:06] <Error_404> Tpenta: why?: http://pastebin.com/829347 :(
[02:19:16] <noyb> Participation age release
[02:19:21] <gisburn> twincest: sorry for being slow but the ksh93 getconf dilemma sucks.up all resources
[02:19:29] <twincest> sure
[02:20:10] <noyb> buzzword compliant, infinitely scaleable, community-friendly release.
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[02:20:48] <noyb> Here's the freaking code, are you happy now? relase
[02:21:04] <noyb> Don't steal this code release.
[02:21:04] * dduvall leaves for train
[02:21:11] * alanc-away takes a parting shot: Solaris93: The POSIX Shell Release
[02:21:21] <noyb> lol
[02:21:31] <noyb> good one
[02:21:50] <noyb> polish my code, bitch.  release
[02:21:54] <gisburn> alanc-away: well, ksh93 is the most complete implementation of a POSIX shell.
[02:21:58] <Auralis> the "Your Code" Release
[02:22:27] <Error_404> hmm... my copy of /usr/ccs/bin/as is from snv_36
[02:22:32] <Error_404> might that be the problem?
[02:23:00] <noyb> I'm thinking the dead horse looks more like hamburger now.  Sorry.
[02:23:16] <Tpenta> stevel: dduval: 6495870
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[02:27:31] <Tpenta> Error_404 no idea, I'd have to see the full log
[02:27:34] <Plaidrab> Afternoon folks
[02:28:16] <Error_404> the full log's like, 62Mb
[02:28:37] <Tpenta> you need to look at the errors in context, try searching for some of the strings that show up in the log
[02:29:18] <Error_404> ahh, found it
[02:29:22] <Error_404> searched for 'perl'
[02:29:46] <Error_404> http://pastebin.ca/253733
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[02:31:25] <Error_404> the same thing's repeated 3 times
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[02:36:01] <Error_404> I can file a bug on it, but I'm the only one that seems to get the error
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[02:44:39] <Error_404> or i could just sit here talking to myself & pouting about it
[02:47:14] <jbk> so option 2? :)
[02:47:48] <Error_404> seems to be the case, yes
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[02:52:11] <Error_404> If I filed a bug, someone'd just mark it NOTABUG, and i'd never hear about it again because that sort of thing isn't public
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[02:52:52] <jbk> that reminds me..
[02:55:23] <jbk> hmm.. this isn't looking encouraging if i'm right..
[02:55:57] <jbk> i guess i'll see tomorrow..
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[03:00:36] * jbk hopes he's wrong
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[03:05:33] <noyb> does anyone know if "The Java Problem" internal memo ever addressed?  I'm guessing it can be addressed now that it's GPL'd ?
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[03:06:53] <gisburn> noyb: you mean the resource usage problem ?
[03:06:57] <gisburn> noyb: not really
[03:07:03] <noyb> yeah, 9M for "hello world"
[03:07:19] <gisburn> 900M for the SMC
[03:07:36] <noyb> yeah, that one.  maybe things will get better now.
[03:07:57] <gisburn> however had that idea should be forced to work on a Ultra5 with 256MB and an ATA disk
[03:08:01] <gisburn> er
[03:08:03] <gisburn> ATAPI
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[03:08:22] <noyb> agreed.
[03:08:25] <jbk> at least it's better displaying remotely over X
[03:08:34] <jbk> i remember a few years ago running symon remotely
[03:08:41] <jbk> over a switch 100mb network
[03:08:46] <jbk> on 512mb workstations
[03:08:56] <jbk> and it literally took like 30 minutes to get a window
[03:09:19] <gisburn> jbk: but it is still horrible. run dtrace and scream when you see that one window refresh calls XFlush() around 600-700 times.
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[03:09:25] <gisburn> which should be exactly ONE
[03:10:02] <noyb> well, like I said.  Maybe it'll get better now, but I would understand if that took some months or perhaps years.  I think that memo was about 2001, but I could be wrong.
[03:10:08] <gisburn> even the GTK+ people learned THAT lesson
[03:10:56] <jbk> i'm just happy they fixed the whole single-byte disk i/o issue
[03:11:32] <jbk> i still can't figure out the thought process that lead to that..
[03:11:33] <noyb> did the solaris java implementation ever get forced to ARC?
[03:12:19] <gisburn> unlikely
[03:12:21] <jbk> 'we have all these bufferd i/o classes, then issue i/o to the os one byte at a time, regardless'
[03:12:25] <gisburn> the design would be better then
[03:13:21] <noyb> well, that's the intent, but then again committees have a certain "way" about them...  :)
[03:13:37] <noyb> bbs...  pickup baby sitter.
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[03:18:14] <Plaidrab> gisburn: You mean a stock U5? Lovely fun ATA33? :)
[03:18:29] <gisburn> yeah
[03:18:36] <gisburn> Plaidrab: actually the SPARC driver just sucks
[03:19:21] <Plaidrab> Well, they didn't exactly use speed demon disks in those either.
[03:20:23] <Plaidrab> 5400 RPM seagates, I think. I can't find the one I pulled recently to look
[03:20:59] <Plaidrab> They weren't exactly horrid at the time. Just mediocre
[03:22:04] <Gman> richlowe, http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/cab-discuss/2006-November/000679.html is interesting
[03:22:09] <Plaidrab> Still, I was happy to switch to a Sunray.,
[03:22:38] <boyd> Seagate ST38410A 8.6GB
[03:23:23] <Plaidrab> That seems to match my memory. Not that that's an indication of accuracy. :)
[03:23:49] <boyd> (at least that what the 2 I have here say)
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[03:24:08] <Plaidrab> I think they started the model with 4giggers.
[03:24:26] <Plaidrab> The U1 I got to work with at home was way peppier.
[03:24:39] <cheatersrealm> anyone have a syba sd-sata-4p?
[03:25:28] <Plaidrab> So back to building Abiword I've run into a linking issue against Freetype. Can anyone help me spot the problem?
[03:28:18] <Plaidrab> I'm contemplating rebuilding Freetype, but that seems silly
[03:31:19] <boyd> LeftWing: Geoff asks how's Anne going?
[03:31:20] <gisburn> what is the translation of "gute besserung" into english ?
[03:32:11] <boyd> Google thinks "good improvement" But I'd need to see context to know how good that is
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[03:51:36] <Tpenta> 'ello bill
[03:51:43] <sommerfeld> good evening.
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[03:55:40] <Gman> any sun dudes who have found the SEED program useful?
[03:56:34] <gisburn> Gman: what does the seed program do ?
[03:56:52] <Gman> http://blogs.sun.com/katysblog/entry/seed_applications_now_being_accepted%5D
[03:56:56] <Tpenta> it's a mentoring program
[03:56:59] <Gman> internal program thing
[03:57:19] <gisburn> Ah
[03:57:51] * Gman heard from one person who thought it was a dead loss
[03:57:56] <gisburn> The "How to use your Klingon Painstick correctly on yourself when working for Sun" program thing ?
[03:58:03] <Gman> so i just wanted other opinions ;0
[03:58:50] <Tpenta> dduval: I just read the mail from Mark abt build 54, ... If I have you as the reviewer for this CR i spoke about this morning, will I be able to get it through?
[03:59:09] <cheatersrealm> I am trying to follow http://blogs.sun.com/PlasticPixel/entry/build_your_own_multi_terabyte but I can't get my syba card to the correct firmware, any hints?
[04:03:36] <Plaidrab> I'm beginning to wonder if my Campus was just a more pleasant place to work...
[04:04:59] <cheatersrealm> hrm, I guess I'll wait for syba to respond, maybe they have the stuff I need
[04:05:18] <cheatersrealm> unfortunately, only a handful of people would dare use such cheap raid cards with such a great os
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[04:47:15] <jbk> hmm.. searching on src.opensolaris.org seems inconsistent at the moment
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[05:57:30] <Error_404> jbk: you're kidding right?
[05:57:43] <Error_404> jbk: look @ the /topic
[06:02:37] <mlh> http://bazaar-vcs.org/NuclearLaunchCodes seems relevant.  Not many scms handle this situation
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[06:06:20] <Error_404> mlh: too bad a bzr checkout would take a day and a half
[06:06:31] <Error_404> a commit would take longer
[06:07:10] <jbk> oh heh.. didn't even notice :)
[06:07:16] * jbk puts on a dunce cap
[06:08:21] <jbk> but that would answer it
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[06:14:06] <dclarke> evening ..
[06:15:32] <Error_404> gd'evening
[06:15:43] <dclarke> have not forgotten you
[06:15:52] <dclarke> then again .. Christmas is comeing
[06:15:58] <Error_404> heh
[06:16:09] <dclarke> and hell freezing over and other slow events
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[06:16:40] <Error_404> how's things in ontario?
[06:16:50] <dclarke> getting cold
[06:16:58] <dclarke> not *real* cold
[06:17:04] <dclarke> just a tad chilly
[06:17:17] <dclarke> in fact .. I hear my furnace just kicking in
[06:18:12] <Error_404> it's above freezing here for the first time in about a month
[06:19:38] <jamesd_> here is milwaukee we try to keep the furnace off untill   dec 1...   even though its  0C
[06:20:12] <dclarke> just a sec .. late night homework question just arrived
[06:20:19] <dclarke> teenagers ....
[06:20:34] <Error_404> you're a teacher?
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[06:22:07] <dclarke> only in my own house
[06:22:24] <boyd> Need some help from the other side of the world? :)
[06:22:29] <Error_404> ah, spawnlings
[06:22:32] <dclarke> thankfully I have extensive skills in the area of math and I generally can teach ..
[06:22:32] <Error_404> yes
[06:22:53] <dclarke> boyd : how are ya there matey ?
[06:23:06] <dclarke> boyd : somewhere in ozzie land I assume
[06:23:07] <boyd> Yeah, not bad... hot, damn hot
[06:23:14] <Error_404> shut up
[06:23:15] <boyd> Melbounre
[06:23:16] <Error_404> ;)
[06:23:17] <dclarke> hot .. geez .. a little heat I guess
[06:23:26] <dclarke> getting to peak temps ?
[06:23:39] <boyd> Not quite... only 35degC today
[06:23:40] * dclarke suddenly remembers Midnight Oil
[06:23:53] <dclarke> only .. only .. wow
[06:24:02] <dclarke> 35 C drives me nuts
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[06:24:17] <boyd> we peak around 45 most years
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[06:25:11] <Error_404> ugh
[06:25:22] <boyd> It sucks at night
[06:25:27] <dclarke> oh ?
[06:25:43] <dclarke> personally I'd crawl out of my skin at 45 C
[06:25:44] <boyd> It's hard to sleep
[06:25:49] <dclarke> I'll bet
[06:25:54] <dclarke> I recall an army story
[06:26:04] <boyd> Of course, that's in the shade...
[06:26:05] <dclarke> from when I was young and strong and stupid
[06:26:14] <dclarke> ha ha !
[06:26:29] <dclarke> yeah .. like we say up here in Canada .. it was -54 C and then
[06:26:38] <dclarke> it cooled down at night
[06:26:42] <boyd> Hehe
[06:27:06] <dclarke> I have an audio tape here somewhere .. a cassete that I kept from when I was 22 yrs old
[06:27:09] <dclarke> a long time ago
[06:27:18] <boyd> Yeah, it gets insanely cold over there.. My Australian friends in Sarnia are starting to get depressed again
[06:27:21] <dclarke> its a recording of the weather report back in the winter of 84
[06:27:44] <dclarke> it was -60 C with a wind chill of -72 C
[06:27:55] <dclarke> exposed flesh frezes solid in ten secs
[06:28:02] <dclarke> it was .. to say the least .. nippy
[06:28:05] <boyd> Holy crap.... that's like... uninhabitable
[06:28:07] <dclarke> I miss the north
[06:28:25] <dclarke> I lived up north of Lake Superior in the logging country area
[06:28:47] <dclarke> in the morning I went to school in the dark and came home in the dark
[06:29:00] <dclarke> layers of clothing were needed
[06:29:00] <boyd> Woking down 'pit?
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[06:29:20] <dclarke> what is 'pit ?
[06:29:49] <jmcp> dclarke: nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
[06:30:18] <boyd> Yorkshire abbreviation for "the pit" (coal mine)
[06:30:29] <dclarke> oh ..
[06:30:32] <dclarke> no .. not coal
[06:30:33] <boyd> Hey jmcp
[06:30:34] <dclarke> logging
[06:30:40] <jmcp> boyd: hiya
[06:30:43] <dclarke> up north the money is above ground mostly
[06:30:51] <dclarke> out east its below ground
[06:30:59] <dclarke> out west is big oil
[06:31:09] <dclarke> way way out west its all drugs I think
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[06:31:18] <boyd> There were hundred and eighty of us, living in shoebox
[06:31:25] <Error_404> dclarke: in vancouver it's tech.
[06:31:38] <dclarke> ah .. tech and drugs
[06:31:41] <dclarke> ha ha
[06:31:42] <Error_404> yes
[06:31:55] <Error_404> well, the engineers gotta get their pot from somewhere
[06:32:00] <boyd> jmcp: dya get my email?
[06:32:12] <Error_404> the rest of BC is trees
[06:32:13] <dclarke> today was cooler .. here it was below freezing but not really cold
[06:32:24] <Error_404> and places where they've converted trees in to money somehow
[06:32:44] <jmcp> boyd: yup, sent it on to the relevant people
[06:32:48] <boyd> Cool
[06:32:50] <dclarke> biggest trees I ever saw
[06:32:57] <dclarke> massive .. beyond reason
[06:33:27] <Error_404> the cathedral pines on vancouver island?
[06:33:28] <boyd> jmcp: I didn't mean to give you work... it's just that you're the only person I know who knows anything about it :)
[06:33:40] <Error_404> you can walk through some of them
[06:33:49] <Error_404> probably drive a car if they bored out a bigger hole
[06:34:09] <dclarke> I did my basic training at the military engineer base in Chilliwack BC
[06:34:31] <dclarke> thats east of the rockies and slightly north of the US border
[06:34:32] <Error_404> I lived on what was formerly the military base in Chilliwack
[06:34:38] <dclarke> no way !
[06:34:44] <Error_404> for about a year and a half
[06:34:45] <dclarke> they closed that base ?
[06:34:54] <Error_404> big chunks of it anyways
[06:34:59] <dclarke> it was a big big base
[06:35:07] <Error_404> all the PMQ's are now low-end condos
[06:35:16] <dclarke> geez .. thats funny as hell
[06:35:27] <dclarke> probably worth more after renovation I guess
[06:35:40] <Tpenta> 'ello dennis
[06:35:43] <dclarke> I have fond memories of the gun room officers mess in Chilliwack
[06:35:50] <dclarke> 'ello Alan !
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[06:35:52] <jmcp> boyd: it's ok .. in a few weeks I might be able to do something about it ... but in the meantime I figured somebody else (specific) would be best
[06:35:54] * dclarke waves
[06:36:15] <dclarke> let me share somethign here ... get some feedback
[06:36:17] <boyd> jmcp: Thanks
[06:36:20] <dclarke> I jotte down some notes
[06:36:43] <dclarke> after chatting with Jim Gris last night I thought .. "there is a guy with real history and character"
[06:37:02] <dclarke> and then today
[06:37:04] <Tpenta> jmcp: what do you think of my chances of getting 6495870 in to b54?
[06:37:08] <dclarke> it was a little cold
[06:37:14] <dclarke> and I recall the winters up north
[06:37:24] <Tpenta> dclarke: jim is *definitel* one of the good guys
[06:37:27] <dclarke> I started doing some notes on a book
[06:37:39] * dclarke is a big fan of Jim G
[06:37:54] <dclarke> but I wonder if my writing style sucks
[06:38:07] <dclarke> so .. anyone want to read an intro to a chapter  ?
[06:38:22] <jmcp> Tpenta: if you can get an advocate who isn't off on Thanksgiving ... reasonably good
[06:38:35] <Tpenta> my only concern is the mail that mark sent to gatelings today
[06:39:44] <jmcp> well.... I assume your changes don't break the gate
[06:39:58] <Tpenta> a good assumption
[06:40:04] <Tpenta> you should also note that its an rfe
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[06:40:12] <dclarke> oh well .. I was OT .. anyone here know anything about USB Key devices in Solaris 10 ?
[06:40:16] <Tpenta> i couldnt in conscience call it a bug
[06:40:28] <dclarke> specifially why they are sooo slow and how to create a UFS filesystem on one ?
[06:40:40] * jmcp notes
[06:41:13] <boyd> slow because of USB1.1?
[06:41:19] <dclarke> not sure
[06:41:19] <Tpenta> before i read marks email I was already considering having danek do code review
[06:41:37] <dclarke> Nov 17 15:16:10 titan usba: [ID 912658 kern.info] USB 2.0 device (usb154b,5) operating at full speed (USB 1.x) on USB 1.10 root hub: storage@1, scsa2usb0 at bus address 2
[06:41:40] <Error_404> you could do some weird raidz setup if you had 3 of 'em
[06:41:49] <dlynes_laptop> what's the difference between regular solaris and opensolaris?
[06:42:04] <Error_404> don't know why you'd want a raid stripe across USB keys
[06:42:15] <dclarke> Nov 17 15:16:10 titan genunix: [ID 408114 kern.info] /pci@0,0/pci8086,7112@7,2/storage@1/disk@0,0 (sd15) online
[06:42:31] <dclarke> it shows up at /rmdisk/unnamed
[06:42:32] <Error_404> unless you had => 3 USB 2.0 channels and you wanted something fast... that'd work i guess
[06:42:50] <dclarke> it shows up at /rmdisk/unnamed_rmdisk/
[06:43:01] <boyd> dclarke: So it's USB 1.x which is slow
[06:43:05] <dclarke> but this si slow as hell
[06:43:20] <dclarke> the PNY key says its high speed
[06:43:30] <dclarke> Nov 17 15:16:10 titan usba: [ID 349649 kern.info]       PNY      USB 2.0 FD
[06:43:51] <boyd> "USB 2.0 device ... operating at full speed (USB 1.x) on USB 1.10 root hub:
[06:43:59] <dclarke> oh .. crap
[06:44:14] <dclarke> its a USB 2.0 device *but* I am not gettign decent speed
[06:44:19] <dclarke> perhaps its my hardware
[06:44:47] <boyd> USB 1.10 root hub looks like the problem
[06:44:58] <boyd> (to my inexpert eyes)
[06:45:04] <dclarke> yeah .. damn .. this is a five year old system
[06:45:15] <dclarke> I should know better I guess
[06:45:36] <dclarke> I thought USB was really well established and even a old box would be "okay"
[06:45:49] <dclarke> the nice thing it .. Solaris 10 Update 2 works flawlessly
[06:45:50] <boyd> Well, it's working, isn't it?
[06:45:57] <dclarke> tis !
[06:46:03] <dclarke> its strolling along
[06:46:16] <dclarke> at 270 kBytes/sec
[06:46:27] <boyd> As to ufs on them... I dunno...
[06:46:39] <boyd> is rmformat involved somewhere?
[06:46:51] <dclarke> me neither .. I figure I'd need to create a partition first
[06:47:06] <dclarke> I was going to use a port of parted
[06:47:09] <boyd> There is probably already one.... try fdisk
[06:47:15] <dclarke> but I guess rmformat will suffice
[06:47:33] <Error_404> is sun phasing out the v210?
[06:48:04] <Error_404> they've still got the old purple cases on 'em
[06:48:20] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/USB_Key
[06:48:26] <dclarke> Error_404:  I hope not !
[06:48:38] <Error_404> i'm thinking of getting the company to  buy me one
[06:48:44] <Error_404> first i gotta start a company though
[06:49:05] <dclarke> ha ha !
[06:49:16] <Error_404> speaking of which, does anyone know a half decent out of work graphics designer that wants to start a web2.0 company?
[06:49:19] <boyd> There is no end date on the handbook and the RoHS version was only GA in Jan this year
[06:49:58] <Error_404> alternately i could pick up a netra 105 for like, 40$ on ebay
[06:50:14] * Error_404 wants a rackable SPARC to play with
[06:50:42] <Error_404> but anyways, yeah, thinking out loud again
[06:50:54] <Error_404> so, web designers?
[06:50:55] <Error_404> anyone?
[06:51:09] <dclarke> not me .. I'm a HTML hack
[06:51:15] <boyd> You definitely don't want my artistic skills
[06:51:30] <dclarke> Error_404:  I can help you with the rackable Sparc box
[06:51:40] <boyd> Damn I thought this jumpstart had failed... but I forgot how fast a SUNWCrnet is :)
[06:51:41] <Error_404> boyd: or mine... i tried, and apparantly i can't make a website look good if my life depends on it
[06:51:48] <dclarke> Error_404:  but not with web design .. have you *looked* at Blastwave ?
[06:51:54] <Error_404> lol
[06:52:13] <Error_404> it's not that bad
[06:52:26] <dclarke> well .. its clunky
[06:52:39] <dclarke> but looks community based .. which is the intent
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[06:53:47] <Error_404> I've not found it difficult to navigate, which is really all that matters
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[06:54:03] <Error_404> now, opensolaris.org occasionally hides information
[06:54:26] <Error_404> it's like an easter egg hunt, but for documentation
[06:54:33] <dclarke> I try to avoid that ...
[06:54:46] <dclarke> avoid burying stuff I mean
[06:55:27] <dclarke> but lest face it .. OpenSolaris is inside Sun with a pile of people working on it and its probably complex as hell by now
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[06:55:39] <dclarke> whats it based on ?  JES ?
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[06:56:05] <dclarke> database is .. what ? heck .. I dunno
[06:56:12] <dclarke> its tough to not have things get lost
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[06:56:35] <Error_404> IIRC they were talking of moving it over to glassfish, so it's J2EE something
[06:56:48] <Error_404> as for the database, your guess is as good as mine
[06:57:13] <dclarke> yeah .. I dunno
[06:57:25] <dclarke> I use MySQL and PostgreSQL
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[06:57:34] <dclarke> postgreSQL rocks
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[06:58:41] <dclarke> just a sec .. be right back
[06:58:46] <Error_404> I don't do a whole lot of DB stuff
[06:58:53] <Error_404> so i mostly just fiddle with postgres
[06:59:01] <Error_404> (if i'm gonna learn something, why learn it wrong?)
[06:59:54] <dclarke> true
[07:00:23] <dclarke> here comes a tough question ..
[07:00:39] <dclarke> I just finished downloading the SXCR b52 CD iso's
[07:00:50] <boyd> That's not a question at all :)
[07:00:57] <Error_404> heh
[07:01:02] <dclarke> I'd like to create a jumpstart server .. thats easy and I know that down cold
[07:01:20] <boyd> Neither is that :)
[07:01:21] <dclarke> the objective being to update my workstation here
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[07:01:29] <boyd> ..or (never mind)
[07:01:30] <dclarke> without losing anything
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[07:01:43] * dclarke tosses a fish at boyd
[07:02:07] <dclarke> can I live upgrade this thing via jumpstart ? safely ?
[07:02:07] <boyd> Ow!
[07:02:16] <dclarke> from snv_46 to snv_52 ?
[07:02:33] <boyd> I don't know about any version-specific stuff but in general yes
[07:02:56] <dclarke> I have a tape drive here
[07:03:07] <dclarke> if I was half way smart .. I'd drop it all to tape first
[07:03:23] <dclarke> but .. bloody ZFS does not dump to tape in any easy way ..
[07:03:29] <dclarke> I have to tar it out ..
[07:03:32] <dclarke> at best
[07:03:45] <boyd> star is POSIX compliant since 15 years
[07:03:46] <Error_404> snapshot & zfs send piped through bzip2?
[07:03:57] <dclarke> boyd : I know star back to front
[07:03:59] <boyd> ... and dd
[07:04:06] <Error_404> might work, never tried it
[07:04:07] <boyd> I know... I was just joking
[07:04:08] <Error_404> *shrug*
[07:04:29] <dclarke> Error_404:  ever tried that snapshot crud ? to tape I mean ?
[07:04:34] <dclarke> I have
[07:04:39] <boyd> dennis, do you have the space for another BE?
[07:04:40] <dclarke> and it doesn't impress me
[07:04:43] <Error_404> I don't have a tape drive to even try such a thing
[07:05:04] <dclarke> boyd:  another BE ?  what is a BE ?
[07:05:19] <boyd> Boot Environment... the basic unit of Live upgrade
[07:05:28] <dclarke> well ... not really
[07:05:37] <dclarke> this old box has 9GB internal disks
[07:05:48] <dclarke> and 36 GB extrnals
[07:06:06] <boyd> "diskS"
[07:06:11] <boyd> mirrored?
[07:06:12] <Barry> What's a good webpage to learn about Solaris's file system(s)?
[07:06:25] <Error_404> buy a copy of solaris internals
[07:06:32] <boyd> Barry: What do you want to know about the filesystems?
[07:06:34] <dclarke> boyd : totally mirrored
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[07:06:50] <dclarke> boyd : except the ZFS
[07:06:53] <boyd> dclarke: So you could break the mirror and use one disk to LU
[07:07:00] <dclarke> boyd : yeah .. true
[07:07:08] <Barry> What it's called, what file systems are supported, whether I can chose block size, etc.
[07:07:11] <dclarke> boyd : what about the ZFS stripe set ?
[07:07:15] <boyd> lucreate will even do that for you
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[07:07:26] <boyd> dclarke: It's data only? not OS?
[07:07:29] <dclarke> Barry:  you can ask lots of questions here
[07:07:40] <dclarke> boyd : the ZFS stuff is all data only
[07:07:57] <boyd> Barry: 2 major ones.. ufs (based on Berkeley FFS and ZFS
[07:08:06] <boyd> dclarke: It will still work after upgrade
[07:08:54] <boyd> Barry: for UFS you can choose block size (but few people do) see mkfs_ufs(1M)
[07:09:08] <dclarke> yeah ?
[07:09:12] <boyd> Barry: For ZFS you don't need to since it's dynamic block sizing
[07:09:17] <dclarke> you totally totally super sure ?
[07:09:35] <boyd> Did for me... not sure how much surer you want me to be
[07:09:45] <boyd> It's on a seperate disk/disks?
[07:10:12] <dclarke> six disks
[07:10:24] <boyd> Different from the boot disks right?
[07:10:25] <dclarke> six 36GB disks
[07:10:32] <dclarke> totally different
[07:10:40] <dclarke> different controllers also
[07:10:45] <boyd> Ok, so if you're worried you can just disconnect them... but I see no reason to worry
[07:11:00] * dclarke worries lots
[07:11:19] <boyd> Barry: Any other qs? There are other FS like QFS and VxFS but they are add-ons
[07:11:22] <dclarke> I tend to remember the times I didn't have a backup tape
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[07:11:36] <dclarke> brb
[07:12:03] <Barry> No, thanks. I have a little research to do.
[07:12:18] <boyd> dclarke: With LU you clone your OS and upgrade the clone... so you always have a fallback path... with ZFS you could disconnect them or snapshot, which is at least read-only
[07:12:19] <Barry> As long as I'm not stuck with a 4K block size.
[07:12:52] <boyd> Barry: Default for ufs is 8k with 1k fragments on files up to 96k. ZFS is dynamic from 512bytes to 128k
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[07:13:10] <dclarke> boyd ... what I may do .. because I'm a worry wart .. is boot net to singlue user mode
[07:13:29] <dclarke> then dump all the internal disks filesystems to tape
[07:13:35] <dclarke> with a verify
[07:13:36] <Barry> I'll have to look into details about ZFS, but it sounds good.
[07:13:49] <dclarke> then just blow it all away and install fresh
[07:13:54] <boyd> If you like, but remember that you're basically leaving one half of the mirror untouched
[07:13:55] <delewis> greetings
[07:14:11] <dclarke> boyd:  true
[07:14:12] <boyd> dclarke: I think you should try LU... it can be life-changing
[07:14:19] <Barry> Sounds like a good alternative to reiserFS
[07:14:22] <dclarke> boyd:  I'll try it
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[07:14:23] <boyd> (if your life is a little sad :) )
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[07:14:39] <dclarke> boyd:  not really .. but it can always use a new skill
[07:14:46] <delewis> LU is one of the first features of I think of when I'm presenting Solaris to a new user.
[07:15:03] <dclarke> okay .. I'll get these disks images onto my jumpstart server .. good ol' Solaris 8
[07:15:14] <delewis> no other operating system really has anything like it (though, AIX does, but it was implemented after LU) :-)
[07:15:15] <Error_404> Barry: ricerfs? why not just take your harddrive out and chuck it against the wall?
[07:15:51] <boyd> Error_404: Now, now..
[07:15:54] <Barry> I won't use ReiserFS, but it's supposed to do what I need./
[07:15:55] <delewis> and the AIX 5.3 LU (which is called 'alternate disk install') only becamse as usable as LU within the last release -- 5.3.
[07:16:00] <Error_404> or kill your wife with it
[07:16:18] <delewis> you would not use ReiserFS if you've seen a few of the things Hans Reiser has said regarding "filesystem reliability"
[07:16:20] <Error_404> (had to...)
[07:16:25] <jamesd> Barry, sorry zfs not equal rieserfs,  zfs won't  corrupt your data its designed to prevent it unlike reiserfs
[07:16:36] <delewis> he's under the impression that filesystem reliability should be placed upon the hardware.
[07:16:37] <boyd> Barry: ZFS has many other features... see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/ especially "demos"
[07:17:42] <boyd> I like some of what Hans says about some new filesystem semantic models for Reiser4, but I'd prefer the reliability of ZFS
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[07:18:45] * jmcp thinks of reiserfs as "ricinfs"
[07:18:46] <delewis> I think we all would :-)
[07:18:56] <delewis> jmcp: nice
[07:19:05] * jmcp muahahahaahas
[07:25:09] * boyd hates freakin' websites that are so arrogant that they think the know what size my browser window should be better than me
[07:26:16] <boyd> Anyone got a suggestion for a FF add-on that stops that crap?
[07:26:21] <jamesd> i hate the ones that use tiny text...  when it looks tiny on my 19" lcd set at  1280x1024.. there is something wrong...
[07:26:49] <jamesd> this includes  program-team emails...
[07:27:09] <Error_404> that's what I wanted to do
[07:27:21] <Error_404> strip HTML out of incoming emails
[07:28:21] <Error_404> not because my mailreader can't display them, but just because i don't *WANT* it to display them
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[07:31:14] <Barry> Is this a better room for Solaris questions than #solaris?
[07:31:29] <dclarke> almost certainly
[07:31:40] <boyd> Heh... I dunno.. I don't spend much time in #solaris
[07:31:52] <dclarke> me neither
[07:31:53] <jamesd> Barry, you are coming across as very whiny... just ask your damm questions...
[07:32:01] <dclarke> thats why this is better here !  :-)
[07:32:30] <Barry> I'm done. Just wondering. The topic in #solaris seems unprofessional.
[07:32:33] * dclarke hands jamesd a cookie and some milk
[07:32:45] <dclarke> Barry ?
[07:32:50] <Barry> But it's a better room name.
[07:32:54] <dclarke> well .. now I need to go look at that
[07:33:02] <boyd> jamesd: Whiny? I didn't get that?
[07:33:09] <boyd> dclarke: me too :)
[07:33:19] <Tpenta> it's actually true, sysunconfic *does* solve a lot of issues :)
[07:33:20] <Barry> He thinks I'm looking for a better place.
[07:33:50] <Tpenta> I dont know about #solaris but you get a good gathering of sun techincal folks as well as some very cluey opensolaris folks in here
[07:33:57] <boyd> Barry: I don't immediately see what's wrong with the topic over there
[07:34:15] <Error_404> boyd: the gradeschool thing i assume
[07:34:24] <Barry> Yeah, at the end.
[07:34:38] <boyd> What? Oh... there must be more... mine stops at FOSS
[07:34:39] <jamesd> its a movie quote for those of you that aren't up on great movies.
[07:34:43] <Tpenta> ahhh  i didnt read it all
[07:34:44] * dclarke feels all "cluey" now :-)
[07:34:58] <jmcp> Barry: the topic in #solaris is fine, it's the content which is a problem
[07:35:01] <boyd> Ugh... yeah, I get it
[07:35:17] <Error_404> jamesd: actually it's a book quote
[07:35:31] <dclarke> Fight Club
[07:35:32] <boyd> Speaking of content I just saw that Michael Richards video... sad.
[07:35:33] <jamesd> Error_404, that too.. its in a book that became a movie
[07:35:34] <Error_404> oh, n/m
[07:35:35] <Error_404> you're right
[07:35:42] <Error_404> i got it mixed up
[07:36:08] <Error_404> they changed it *FROM* "I want to have your abortion" *TO* "i haven't been f*cked like that since grade school"
[07:36:16] <Error_404> because the studio complained about the first one
[07:37:04] <Barry> The abortion could have contributed to stem cell research.
[07:37:14] <Barry> Should have left it in.
[07:37:47] <dclarke> I'm *not* getting dragged into that
[07:38:00] <dclarke> I have a major work to do here
[07:38:48] <dclarke> erk ... check this
[07:38:51] <dclarke> # fsck -F ufs -Y /dev/rdsk/c0t1d0s0
[07:38:54] <dclarke> runs fine
[07:39:07] <dclarke> # mount -F ufs -o nologging /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 /mnt
[07:39:08] <dclarke> mount: /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 is not this fstype.
[07:39:11] <dclarke> hrmmm ?
[07:39:27] <Tpenta> # which mount
[07:39:30] <ShadowHntr> did you newfs it ?
[07:39:39] <dclarke>  /sbin/mount
[07:39:54] <Tpenta> strange
[07:40:03] <dclarke> # echo $PATH
[07:40:04] <dclarke> /usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
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[07:40:13] <dclarke> bloody odd ..
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[07:40:26] <boyd> fstyp /dev/rdsk/c0t1d0s0
[07:41:49] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/uRuiMw77.nln.html
[07:42:07] <dclarke> spooky
[07:42:55] <dclarke> makes it tough to setup my jumpstart server ...
[07:43:13] <dclarke> I need that disk space for the CDROM ISO images etc etc ..
[07:43:31] <boyd> dclarke: Where did you create the FS?
[07:43:34] <Error_404> solaris 8?
[07:43:58] <dclarke> can't say for sure .. this is an old box
[07:44:13] <dclarke> that secondary disk has been in there since the dawn of time
[07:44:21] <dclarke> but .. it was done with Solaris
[07:44:28] <dclarke> thats all I need to know
[07:44:35] <boyd> So, not solaris 10 then?
[07:44:38] <dclarke> and fsck runs clean
[07:44:44] <dclarke> no no .. not Solaris 10
[07:44:53] <dclarke> this box has 200 MHz procs
[07:45:00] <dclarke> and only 256Mb of RAM
[07:45:01] <boyd> largefiles?
[07:45:05] <dclarke> its not fit for Solaris 10
[07:45:17] <dclarke> largefiles is an option during mount_ufs
[07:45:26] <dclarke> so its not relavent I think
[07:45:35] <boyd> I was wondering if it needed nolargefiles
[07:45:49] <dclarke> well ... let me toss that in
[07:45:52] <dclarke> good call
[07:45:53] <dclarke> one sec
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[07:46:04] * dclarke is watching fsck run again
[07:47:15] <Error_404> what's with all these anti-j2ee editorials that i've been seeing for like, 2 weeks?
[07:47:25] <Error_404> people keep declaring it dead
[07:47:52] <dclarke> # /sbin/mount -F ufs -o nolargefiles,nologging,noatime /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 /mnt
[07:47:53] <dclarke> mount: /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 is not this fstype.
[07:48:37] <dclarke> # /sbin/mount -F ufs /devices/sbus@1f,0/SUNW,fas@e,8800000/sd@1,0:a /mnt
[07:48:38] <dclarke> mount: /devices/sbus@1f,0/SUNW,fas@e,8800000/sd@1,0:a is not this fstype.
[07:48:39] <dclarke> #
[07:48:51] <boyd> wierd
[07:48:51] <dclarke> okay .. I'm at a loss .. any ideas anyone ?
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[07:49:31] <dclarke> damn peculiar
[07:49:34] <boyd> fstyp -v /dev/rdsk/blah | grep magic | head -1  ?
[07:49:53] * boyd can't work out how to make grep|head into a sed command... it must be late
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[07:52:07] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/WVPQQI13.nln.html
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[07:53:15] <boyd> Hmm... small block size, but otherwise I don't see anything really odd
[07:54:04] <dclarke> its real normal looking
[07:54:17] <dclarke> oh heck !
[07:54:21] <dclarke> I see the issue
[07:54:38] <dclarke> its a 4096 byte blocksize and 64-bit sun4u can't mount that
[07:54:40] * Gr|ffous inches forward to the edge of his seat
[07:54:43] <dclarke> sun4m can
[07:54:47] <mlh> Error_404: bzr performance has improved massively since the scm decisions for opensolaris was made
[07:54:55] <mlh> it's also got a smart server now
[07:54:59] <boyd> dclarke: Really? I wasn't aware of that limitation
[07:54:59] <dclarke> 32-bit mode .. I need to boot in 32-bit mode to mount that
[07:55:08] <dclarke> yep .. an oldie but a goodie
[07:55:18] <boyd> sun4m is before my time :)
[07:55:19] <Tpenta> wierd
[07:55:20] <mlh> Not actually advocating mind you, just adding some info
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[07:55:24] <dclarke> I'll shutdown .. and boot the 32-bit kernel
[07:55:35] <dclarke> I have a Sparc20 here .. I can always use that
[07:55:40] <Gr|ffous> reboot... a sun box? I'm confused.
[07:55:42] <mlh> I'm not even sure how bzr handles the nuclear launch code case
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[07:55:51] <Error_404> mlh: huh? probably, it couldn't have gotten any slower
[07:56:19] <boyd> mlh: That page seemed to just be a description of the problem, rather than the solution
[07:56:44] <Error_404> last time i used bzr was in august
[07:56:49] <Error_404> it was horrid slow
[07:56:51] <dclarke> boyd : all the nitty gritty : http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/n4bWTr58.nln.html
[07:57:38] <boyd> don't you love that fstype says "Unknown_fstyp" for any error, including SIGPIPE
[07:57:55] <dclarke> I could live with that
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[08:00:49] * dclarke boot kadb -D kernel/unix
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[08:02:24] <dclarke> I'll L1-A that
[08:02:35] <dclarke> boot disk kernel/unix -as
[08:02:40] <dclarke> thats reasonable
[08:03:32] <dclarke> damn ..
[08:03:36] <dclarke> I'm screwed
[08:03:42] <dclarke> gotta newfs that puppy
[08:03:57] <boyd> No 32 bit?
[08:04:04] <dclarke> thats not the issue
[08:04:10] <dclarke> the architecture is
[08:04:16] <dclarke> it has to be sun4m or sun4d
[08:04:19] <dclarke> or sun4c
[08:04:25] <dclarke> and .. I'm not going there
[08:04:43] <Tpenta> yoou dont have a sol 9 that you can boot 42 bit?
[08:04:49] <Tpenta> 32 even
[08:04:52] <g4lt-mordant> aw, c'mon,  you know you want to fire up that old IPC ;P
[08:05:03] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/AIJmFs31.nln.html
[08:05:14] <dclarke> I have Solaris 2.5.1 here
[08:05:21] <dclarke> bit .. this is still sun4u
[08:05:30] <dclarke> and I think the manpage for newfs is clear on that
[08:06:12] <boyd> I wonder if ufsdump will read it
[08:06:22] <dclarke>                  The logical block size of  the  file  system  in
[08:06:23] <dclarke>                  bytes  (either  4096  or  8192).  The default is
[08:06:25] <dclarke>                  8192.  The sun4u architecture does  not  support
[08:06:26] <dclarke>                  the 4096 block size.
[08:06:36] <dclarke> I should have seen that coming
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[08:06:49] <boyd> Makes sense... 8k page size
[08:07:23] <dclarke> this has been humbling .. and educational but still its just a walk down memory lane
[08:07:34] <dclarke> I'm no closer to my jumpstart setup
[08:07:37] <Tpenta> :)
[08:07:45] <boyd> Humor me and see if ufsdump will read it
[08:07:48] <dclarke> so .. I'm going to slap an external disk on this
[08:08:00] <dclarke> okay .. boyd .. this one is for you :-)
[08:08:09] <boyd> Aw shucks
[08:08:14] <dclarke> but .. I better stick a tape drive on there eh ?
[08:08:38] <boyd> Meh, /dev/null will do for a test
[08:08:57] <dclarke> well ... if I can't read it back in then is it really a test ?
[08:09:05] <dclarke> I'm such a stickler eh ?
[08:09:16] <boyd> True... but if you can't write you need not read
[08:09:30] <dclarke> I'll slap a disk onto a controller
[08:09:35] <dclarke> and dump to a file on another disk
[08:09:43] <boyd> Besodes.. you can fit so much more into /dev/null than on a tape :)
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[08:10:17] <dclarke> and its fast too !
[08:10:30] <dclarke> one sec ...
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[08:10:36] <boyd> Cmon! I have to go :)
[08:10:42] <dclarke> I have piles of crud here .. SCSI cables all over the place
[08:10:56] <dclarke> ooooh .. I just had an obscene idea !
[08:10:59] <dclarke> ha ha
[08:11:10] <boyd> EEEuuuww!
[08:11:11] <dclarke> you will love this ....
[08:12:26] * boyd waits to love this idea
[08:13:46] <dclarke> okay .. I slapped on an external disk
[08:14:01] *** Dar_HOME is now known as Dar
[08:14:41] * boyd just realised that you could have done ufsdump 0f - /dev/rdsk/blah | ufsrestore tf -
[08:15:32] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/8TAtO056.nln.html
[08:15:42] <dclarke> look closely there .. its real real odd
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[08:17:28] <boyd> I don't see it... Is that a 1.86 GB disk!?
[08:17:29] <dclarke> # newfs -b 8192 -i 1024 -f 1024 -m 2 -a 2 -C 1 /dev/rdsk/c1t5d0s0
[08:17:37] <dclarke> yep
[08:17:50] <boyd> Man... that must be dusty :)
[08:17:55] <dclarke> a 3600 rpm disk
[08:18:01] <dclarke> from 1991 or so
[08:18:26] <dclarke> I do have lots of crud here
[08:18:49] <Tpenta> well outside the seagate 5 year warranty huh?
[08:19:12] <dclarke> it still works .. a testament to really high quality old SCSI disks
[08:19:32] <dclarke> I had a Sparc 670MP once with original Seagates in it .. they all worked too
[08:19:40] * boyd is ready to go for a tram... waits for dclarke to try ufsdump
[08:20:43] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/zkggXj13.nln.html
[08:20:50] <dclarke> okay ... now to run ufsdump ...
[08:22:18] <dclarke> yep !
[08:22:23] <dclarke> ufsdump works
[08:22:31] <Error_404> yay for old junk that becomes new good stuff
[08:22:34] <boyd> Yay!
[08:22:57] <boyd> Is not when you discover that you don't really need the data? :)
[08:23:01] <boyd> s/not/now
[08:23:15] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/J9eQ6a88.nln.html
[08:23:50] <boyd> So it's savable! woohoo!
[08:24:08] <Error_404> dclarke: anything interesting on the drive?
[08:24:40] <dclarke> dunno yet ...
[08:25:00] <dclarke> I just slapped another disk onto yet another controller
[08:25:07] <dclarke> newfs runnign now
[08:25:38] <dclarke> I need a 5GB filesystem
[08:25:51] <dclarke> and .. I use ufsdump piped to ufsrestore
[08:27:31] <boyd> Good luck... I'm off... note to self.. don't shut down the dhcp server, causing it to revoke all leases while jumpstarts are running
[08:27:45] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/GY1I2j15.nln.html
[08:27:58] <dclarke> boyd .. thanks for playing !
[08:28:07] <boyd> Night
[08:28:45] * boyd &
[08:28:53] <dclarke> nighty
[08:28:54] <Gr|ffous> ROFL
[08:29:04] <Gr|ffous> I must remember that, "&"
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[08:29:20] <dclarke> brilliant in its simplicity
[08:29:24] *** GmanAFK is now known as Gman
[08:29:38] <Gr|ffous> dclarke, is this disk one of the ones that was in the file on your desk in the picture that you posted yesturday?
[08:29:43] <dclarke> perhaps to be more precise he could have said   . &
[08:29:43] <Gr|ffous> hi Gman
[08:29:51] <Gman> Gr|ffous, hey dude
[08:29:56] <Tpenta> ^Zbg
[08:29:57] <dclarke> ummm .. maybe ?
[08:30:09] <dclarke> I have to look at that pic
[08:30:11] <Gr|ffous> great news on 2.16 in snv_53, good work
[08:30:16] <Tpenta> or perhaps nohup -p $$
[08:30:19] <Gr|ffous> (yes, I'm a couple of days behind)
[08:30:36] <dclarke> Tpenta : oooh .. I have not seen nohup in a while
[08:30:41] <Error_404> Tpenta: i just run things in screen
[08:30:43] <Gr|ffous> Tpenta, you're loosing me now :/
[08:30:48] <Tpenta> read about nohup -p
[08:31:08] <dclarke> in my Solaris 2.5.1 days .. I lived for nohup
[08:31:11] <Tpenta> new in 10
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[08:31:20] <Tpenta> you can nohup a running process
[08:31:25] <dclarke> it was the only way .. to sanely build GCC or other larger software packages
[08:31:36] <dclarke> oh ?
[08:31:41] <dclarke> nice to know !
[08:31:46] <dclarke> good one that !
[08:31:47] <Tpenta> and it will also redirect the output, ... clever use of procfs
[08:31:56] <dclarke> damn clever
[08:32:07] <dclarke> its little things like that that make me smile
[08:32:21] <Gr|ffous> Gman: you win the award for best avator on POS, cracks me up every time
[08:32:22] <Tpenta> basically it stops the proc with an agent threaed, , redirects stdio, fixes signales then lets it start again
[08:32:28] <Gr|ffous> avatar too!
[08:32:29] <dclarke> that and the fact that 4096 byte blocksize filesystems can be read with ufsdump
[08:33:01] <Gman> Gr|ffous, i think i mostly win the award for the only one atm
[08:33:16] <Gman> hopefully we'll fix that and get some crazy hackergotchi action!
[08:33:25] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[08:34:44] <Error_404> dclarke: i don't suppose polaris' Hg repo is up yet, is it?
[08:35:14] <dclarke> I have to check with Craige Steinberger on that
[08:35:22] <dclarke> he was working on the Polaris site
[08:35:31] <dclarke> over the last few days
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[08:37:29] <dclarke> damn .. look at the time
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[08:37:34] <dclarke> geez ...
[08:37:37] <Error_404> 11:37
[08:37:42] <dclarke> I'm better off to dump this to tape
[08:37:50] <Gr|ffous> 8:37pm?
[08:37:51] <dclarke> its 02:37 for me
[08:38:17] <Gr|ffous> what time do you start work?
[08:38:28] <Error_404> where *do* you work anyways?
[08:38:31] <dclarke> I work 24 hours a day
[08:38:39] <dclarke> well .. I don't lately
[08:38:44] <dclarke> Blastwave.org
[08:38:48] <dclarke> which is my home really
[08:39:03] <dclarke> no contract at the moment
[08:39:04] <Gr|ffous> Oh, I didn't realise that it kept you full time employed too :)
[08:39:13] <dclarke> but the last few months were okay
[08:39:26] <dclarke> it keeps me full time out of trouble
[08:39:35] <dclarke> and my wife hasn't killed me
[08:39:36] <dclarke> yet
[08:39:58] <Gr|ffous> heh, speaking of killing wives, what even happened to Hans reiser?
[08:40:04] <dclarke> it doesn't keep me employed
[08:40:12] <dclarke> it keeps me busy
[08:40:27] <dclarke> hans reiser ?
[08:40:35] <dclarke> hrmmm .. dunno I guess
[08:40:36] <Gr|ffous> yeah, of reiserfs fame.
[08:40:41] <dclarke> hey .. Tpenta ?
[08:40:50] * dclarke points to the Blastwave.org homepage
[08:40:52] <Tpenta> hey Dennis
[08:41:05] <dclarke> um .. just pointing to the top item there
[08:41:09] <Doc> hrmmm
[08:41:18] <Doc> tpenta: we built rory an office
[08:41:24] <dclarke> sort of a great blog topic if one were to read the article
[08:42:05] * Gr|ffous reads
[08:42:28] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0058/index.html
[08:42:30] <Tpenta> doc? pics?
[08:42:37] <Doc> pics tomorrow
[08:42:59] <dclarke> I think for once I just saw the best use of shockwave flash ever
[08:43:00] <Doc> turns out used E25K boxes do still have uses
[08:43:01] <Tpenta> oh you tease
[08:43:08] <jmcp> Doc: were you @ Gordon when we filled Gar's office with balloons?
[08:43:14] <Doc> (actually we didnt end up using E25k boxes, just the sunrack 900 boxes)
[08:43:15] <dclarke> see : http://www.tudorwatch.com/home_en.html
[08:43:29] <Doc> hmm.. balloons in the cardboard office - now there's an idea
[08:44:07] <jmcp> Doc: mashley helped a lot with that one. And I think somebody videod it too
[08:44:10] <Doc> tpenta: didnt take the camera in today
[08:46:18] <dclarke> if anyone here is interested in really great watches and want to see the current time .. see : http://www.tudorwatch.com/tudor.swf?lang=en
[08:46:38] <dclarke> the thing shows the current time on your computer and the watch bits move
[08:47:35] <LeftWing> I still think Digital Watches are a pretty neat idea.
[08:47:42] * dclarke is impressed by fine craftsmenship
[08:47:57] <dclarke> digital watches .. were an obscenity
[08:48:07] <dclarke> no art to them really
[08:48:18] <Doc> negative points to dclarke for not knowing the reference
[08:48:21] <dclarke> pure mechanical time pieces are an art
[08:48:32] <LeftWing> positive points to Doc, however.
[08:48:43] <Doc> :)
[08:48:53] <dclarke> its 2:48 AM here .. so I'm a tad dragged out
[08:49:06] * dclarke wonders what he missed
[08:49:11] <LeftWing> Doc: Going to come to Christmas SOSUG, potentially?
[08:49:52] <Doc> when?
[08:50:01] * LeftWing shrugs.
[08:50:06] <LeftWing> Whenever Tpenta decides. =P
[08:50:10] <Doc> dclarke: reference to hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
[08:50:18] <dclarke> ah
[08:50:23] <dclarke> sorry
[08:50:25] <Doc> it's just do far for more to have to go to get to it
[08:50:30] <Doc> s/do/so/
[08:50:37] <Doc> er... s/more/me/
[08:50:40] <Byron> you gotta be a frood who knows where his towel is to get that one...
[08:50:43] <Doc> really need to stop trying to do 3 things at once
[08:51:20] * LeftWing drives from Newcastle. ;P
[08:51:53] <Doc> i used to be closer, but then we moved and now it's about 3 times as far as it used to be
[08:52:02] <LeftWing> Speaking of driving, it's time to go home.
[08:52:03] * LeftWing brb
[08:52:18] <Doc> (instead of 3 floors in the lift, it's now 9)
[08:52:18] * dclarke reaches for Inigo Montoya's sword
[08:52:33] <Error_404> boo-urns to that pop culture reference
[08:52:38] *** dunc has quit IRC
[08:52:38] * dclarke smaks Doc with it
[08:52:50] <Doc> error: boo-urns... cute
[08:53:52] <Error_404> dclarke: heh, entertaining blastwave article about running a production sysyem out of crap you found in a dumpster (more or less)
[08:54:14] <dclarke> welcome to my life :-)
[08:55:27] <Error_404> it's just neat to breathe life in to once-discarded hardware
[08:55:38] <dclarke> discard ?
[08:55:41] <dclarke> whats that ?
[08:55:50] <Error_404> well, "put away" anyways
[08:55:51] <dclarke> I pile it here .. there .. under there
[08:55:54] <dclarke> over on that
[08:55:59] <dclarke> connect it
[08:56:21] * dclarke points to a 13 years old SCSI disk spinning here
[08:56:24] <Error_404> stuff that should theoretically be violating international toxic anti-dumping agreements
[08:56:37] <dclarke> thus .. I don't dump it
[08:56:45] <dclarke> its not pretty .. but it works
[08:56:46] <Error_404> leeching heavy metals in to public waterways
[08:57:14] <dclarke> Inconceivable!
[08:58:05] <Error_404> the rack full of 1U machines lacking their branded faceplates was kinna pretty
[08:58:16] <Error_404> in a techno grunge sort of way
[08:58:37] <dclarke> I worked hard on ensuring good air flow
[08:58:42] <dclarke> and neat cables
[08:58:43] <Doc> installed an X4600 today.. nice little machine :)
[08:58:57] <dclarke> oooh .. new gear
[08:59:04] <Error_404> new gear is always fun
[08:59:47] <dclarke> does it have that new computer smell ?
[08:59:58] <Error_404> dclarke: if you're ever in vancouver, look up "cal's computer warehouse"
[09:00:05] <Error_404> then go upstairs
[09:00:29] <dclarke> will do
[09:00:34] <dclarke> if I can remember
[09:00:41] <dclarke> I need to write it down
[09:00:50] *** Dar is now known as Dar_MTG
[09:00:51] <dclarke> what is it .. the junk mecca ?
[09:00:54] <Gr|ffous> dclarke, I'm looking forward to the lack of smell in my server room. I have a pair of x4100s going in to replace 8 old Dells, and some ahem, production desktops
[09:01:04] <Error_404> last time i was there i saw an ancient (not beige even, but the cappuchino color of 80's electronics) IBM workgroup server of some sort
[09:01:36] <dclarke> oh hell
[09:01:42] <Error_404> a pile of sparcstations as tall as me
[09:01:43] <dclarke> damn damn
[09:02:09] <dclarke>  /opt/csw/bin/star: Operation not applicable. Cannot link 'unstable/sparc/5.8/aspellsc-1.0,REV=2005.06.17-SunOS5.8-all-CSW.pkg.gz' to 'stable/sparc/5.8/aspellsc-1.0,REV=2005.06.17-SunOS5.8-all-CSW.pkg.gz'.
[09:02:26] <dclarke> the filesystem on this USB key will not allow symlinks
[09:02:31] <dclarke> its bloody pcfs
[09:02:41] <dclarke> and I have no idea how to put in ufs
[09:02:48] <Error_404> format?
[09:02:51] <dclarke> looks to me rmformat may be my friend
[09:02:58] <Error_404> failing that
[09:03:09] <Error_404> create a file, and loopback mount it
[09:03:14] <Error_404> then makefs on it
[09:03:22] <dclarke> I want this on my USB key
[09:03:30] *** tsoome has quit IRC
[09:03:52] <Error_404> and you'll have it on your USB key, with heavy use of dd, mkfs, and lofiadm
[09:04:51] * dclarke reads man rmformat
[09:06:33] <Error_404> fine, don't do it my way
[09:07:16] <dclarke> don't take it personally .. its just ..
[09:07:21] <dclarke> this looks like the way to go
[09:07:24] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/man/rmformat_1M.html
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[09:07:52] <Error_404> neat, i found a copy of A/UX
[09:08:12] <Error_404> sitting on an old backup CDR from a decade ago
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[09:08:45] <dclarke> AUX ?
[09:08:49] <dclarke> A/UX ?
[09:08:51] <Error_404> apple unix
[09:08:53] <dclarke> thats way old
[09:09:11] <Error_404> sysVr3 old
[09:09:12] <dclarke> along with XENIX probably
[09:09:21] <Error_404> xenix... i don't have
[09:09:32] <lasseoe> Error_404: taht's for 68000's right?
[09:09:43] <Error_404> lasseoe: A/ux? yeah
[09:09:44] <dclarke> gotta crash here
[09:09:49] <Error_404> old performas & such
[09:09:53] <Error_404> dclarke: night
[09:10:22] <dclarke> now then .. what was it that Tpenta suggested for a tuck away ?  nohup . $$
[09:10:32] <dclarke> er ... no
[09:10:49] <Error_404> nohup -p ?
[09:11:40] <dclarke>  /bin/priocntl -e -c FX -m 0 -p 0 -t 10 sleep 18000 &
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[09:12:17] <Error_404> oh, aux is even older than that
[09:12:23] <Error_404> SysV R2
[09:12:30] <rydis> The openmagic dude has some A/UX stuff, as well.
[09:12:37] <Error_404> who?
[09:13:25] <rydis> ftp://alge.anart.no/pub/AUX/
[09:13:44] <Error_404> well i don't have a machine to run it on
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[09:17:20] <Error_404> i should buy one
[09:17:33] <Doc> hmm.. firefox 2.0 is in snv_53
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[09:22:13] <timeless> oh goody
[09:22:23] <timeless> how un JDSy does it feel?
[09:25:41] <Gman> it's not too bad
[09:26:00] <Gman> better than staroffice :)
[09:26:50] <timeless> thats not saying much
[09:27:13] <timeless> btw, did you offer a gnomesystem-monitor 2.16.x to me a while ago?
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[09:27:36] <Gman> timeless, it should be in build53
[09:29:33] <Gman> sucks up cpu, and isn't dp's best friend ;)
[09:29:45] <Gman> probably uses some slightly dodgy kernel interfaces too
[09:31:29] <timeless> 2.16 instead of 2.14?
[09:31:46] <timeless> and it's whatever the latest 2.16 is?
[09:31:52] * timeless doesn't understand gnome versioining
[09:34:15] <Gman> yeah, 2.16 is latest
[09:34:19] <Gman> will go into b53
[09:35:07] <jmcp> Gman: I thought b53 had closed already
[09:35:18] <jmcp> do you mean 'went' into b53?
[09:35:41] <Gman> yeah, it's closed, delivered, integrated :)
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[09:35:47] <jmcp> yay
[09:35:57] <timeless> is b52 the current?
[09:36:04] <timeless> if so i'll plan to grab 53 next week or something
[09:36:27] <Gman> yeah, do that
[09:36:29] <timeless> having 2.16 could be useful, if only to verify the various bugs i've asked them to fix
[09:36:34] <Gman> 2.16 rocks
[09:36:35] <Gman> :)
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[09:36:49] <timeless> i haven't gotten around to filing bugs about gnome-system-monitor doing a bad job of understanding ZFS
[09:36:54] <timeless> i don't suppose you're interested :)
[09:37:24] <timeless> a bunch of my 'devices' are missing their volume icon, and i can't figure out why :)
[09:38:00] <timeless> it also claims some of them take up no space
[09:38:14] <jmcp> timeless: because gnome-system-monitor is really in league with ricinfs
[09:38:24] <timeless> ?!
[09:38:31] <Gman> all mine have icons
[09:38:38] <timeless> i bet you have <10
[09:38:43] <timeless> (zfs voumes)
[09:38:48] <Gman> yeah
[09:38:53] <Gman> it hasn't been ported to use zfs
[09:38:59] <timeless> i have about 65
[09:39:20] <timeless> maybe it's 64 + one header row
[09:39:55] <timeless> that doesn't include i suppose fun things like /dev, ctfs, objfs, libc_hwcap1.so.1, fd, /vol and firends which i have a couple of times over
[09:40:12] <Gman> ouch :)
[09:40:36] <timeless> well, i have an 80g drive, and i wanted to be able to move pieces around
[09:40:49] <timeless> so i split my volumes so that they're generally <10g
[09:40:54] <timeless> ideally 2g or smaller
[09:42:15] * timeless tries some math
[09:42:42] <timeless> Total: 1.2 GiB, Free 1.2 GiB, Available 1.2 GiB, Used 24.5 KiB
[09:43:16] * timeless hates those numbers
[09:43:24] <timeless> totally meaningless on zfs based systems
[09:43:29] *** Dar_MTG is now known as Dar
[09:44:31] <timeless> actually, maybe, since you're vaguely aware of zfs, you could consider a different Total/Free algorithm
[09:46:01] <timeless> would it be possible for gnome-system-monitor to treat zfs partitions as if they had Total=SizeOfZVolume, Free=SizeOfZVolumeFree(current), Available=SizeOfZVolumeFree+zfsReserved, Used=SizeOfZfsUsed(current)
[09:46:20] <timeless> currently it uses total=sizeoffree+sizeofzfsused
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[10:33:28] <Berny> morning
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[10:40:14] <raph_ael> hello
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[11:20:35] <dlg> am i still online?
[11:20:54] <Cyrille> I don't think so.
[11:22:15] <dlg> hrm
[11:22:18] <dlg> i wonder how to fix that
[11:25:08] <dunc> have u tried turning it off and on?
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[11:26:33] <dlg> not yet
[11:26:58] <Snake007uk> morning
[11:27:03] <dunc> :)
[11:27:08] <dunc> lo Snake007uk
[11:27:15] <Snake007uk> :)
[11:31:57] <PerterB> blogs.sun.com seems a bit borked
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[11:32:57] <PerterB> hmmm, or not
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[11:58:04] <Gr|ffous> :( this issue with the intel810 sound card is crippling my interactivity. 400k interrupts/sec!
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[12:25:18] <Gr|ffous> good call
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[12:29:44] <Berny> is there a way to tell the x server to run 24bit default but also provide a staticgrey visual?
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[12:55:43] <jmcp> evening all
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[12:56:46] <dlg> evening
[12:58:19] <jmcp> dlg: I didn't make it to the electronics plaza this evening
[12:58:22] <jmcp> :(
[12:58:23] <Snake007uk> anyone here used/using hp ilo ??
[12:58:33] <dlg> jmcp: that sucks
[12:58:42] <jmcp> dlg: got a back/shoulder/leg massage instead ... which was definitely worth it
[12:58:55] <dlg> you didnt see a hello kitty usb hub while you were there last time did you?
[12:58:57] <dlg> ooh, nice
[12:59:02] * dlg could do with one of those
[12:59:11] <dlg> dell rac stuff makes me tense
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[13:01:09] <jmcp> you want a hello kitty usb hub? can't you get one from Toowong?
[13:01:40] <lasseoe> heh
[13:01:57] <dlg> no, ive been there and looked
[13:02:00] <jmcp> lasseoe: there's a Hello Kitty store @ the Toowong shopping centre near where dlg works
[13:02:03] <jmcp> dlg: awww
[13:02:05] <jmcp> :)
[13:02:10] <jmcp> I'll see if I can find one
[13:02:16] <lasseoe> jmcp: gotta love Hello Kitty stuff, some of it is hilarious
[13:02:23] * jmcp nods
[13:02:36] <lasseoe> hello kitty mouse?
[13:04:05] * jmcp snorts
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[13:07:40] <jmcp> hi lplatypus
[13:07:43] <lasseoe> I remember seeing a photo of a hello kitty schoolbus once
[13:07:54] <lplatypus> hi
[13:07:55] <jmcp> wow
[13:08:00] <jmcp> lasseoe: that's crazy
[13:08:22] <Berny> is there a way to tell the x server to run 24bit default but also provide a staticgrey visual?
[13:09:16] <jmcp> no idea
[13:09:49] <Stric> Snake007uk: I've used those in 145g2's..
[13:10:24] <Snake007uk> Stric,  just wondering if you know of a local iLO program the java applet is p*ssing me off
[13:10:40] <Stric> Snake007uk: umm.. I've only used the telnet thingie :)
[13:10:49] <Snake007uk> ok
[13:11:07] <Stric> lasseoe/jmcp: http://www.mittwochsfreunde.de/blog/uploads/hello-vader.jpg
[13:11:29] <jmcp> I think I've seen that one ...
[13:11:48] <jmcp> yup, I have
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[13:27:26] <lasseoe> Stric: heh yep seen that before as well :)
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[13:27:48] <dlg> there's a point at which it is too much pain to try and catch the boot loader in teh drac
[13:28:11] * dlg curse machines without ofw
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[13:31:59] <jmcp> can somebody do an nslookup on www.flickr.com for me please?
[13:32:51] <dunc> Non-authoritative answer:
[13:32:51] <dunc> www.flickr.com  canonical name = www.flickr.vip.mud.yahoo.com.
[13:32:51] <dunc> Name:   www.flickr.vip.mud.yahoo.com
[13:32:51] <dunc> Address: 68.142.214.24
[13:32:58] <jmcp> thanks much
[13:33:01] <dunc> np
[13:33:19] <Doc> jmcp: hint: dont try and out 1473 photos in a single flickr set
[13:33:20] <twincest> nslookup is deprecated ;-D
[13:33:31] <jmcp> Doc: awww ....
[13:33:41] <jmcp> twincest: I know, I know .... I'm a recidivist
[13:34:13] <dunc> lol
[13:34:47] <jmcp> Doc: I don't have 1473 photos with my new camera yet, so I don't think that'll be a problem
[13:34:48] <jmcp> yet
[13:34:51] <dunc> that's a very tinny sort of a word </monty_python>
[13:35:24] <Doc> yea? you've had it a week now havent you?
[13:37:19] <jmcp> Doc: yes ... I've been pacing myself :)
[13:37:20] <Doc> jmcp: did you see there's like 2500 photos in the canon comp this week?
[13:37:25] <Doc> bit of a farce really
[13:37:26] <jmcp> aw crud
[13:37:49] <jmcp> been concentrating on this project I'm working on rather than sightseeing or taking photos
[13:38:23] <Doc> i do like mine this week tho - http://www.canon.com.au/eos400d/GalleryVote.aspx?imageid=23237
[13:39:13] * jmcp whistles
[13:39:18] <jmcp> Doc: yeah, that's a good one
[13:39:59] <Doc> feel free to vote :)
[13:40:17] <jmcp> Doc: don't tempt me ..... :)
[13:40:54] <lasseoe> Doc: very nice
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[13:52:28] <PosixCompliantNe> binary comaptability of linux apps under osol: I remeber I heard something about it in the past; something I saw reminded me of it; is there a thing like this at all ?
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[13:54:19] <Doc> google for brandz
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[13:58:28] <leal> hello all..
[13:58:46] <timeless> lx brandz
[13:59:10] <timeless> it works, but i've found that source compat w/ nexenta under brandz was good enough for my actual needs
[14:00:38] <leal> what about the "linux kernel features"? e.g: compiz/beryl that needs specific features (drivers)...
[14:01:30] <leal> There is interest in make that features work on a linux brand?
[14:01:32] <timeless> driver compat islimited to some specific kernel, i wouldn't try
[14:02:59] <PerterB> "oops"... my boss is sat in a client's data centre trying to build some x4200's from DVD via the ILOM serial port, and simply couldn't get a GRUB screen up.  Eventually after some garbled phone calls we eventually managed to prove it was bad media, not something he was doing
[14:03:12] <leal> I mean, the objective is support all functions, or handle that stuff is out of the roadmap?
[14:04:45] <jmcp> PerterB: confidence-building for your boss :)
[14:05:07] <leal> VMWare is free, and there is a possibility to have a "slave" machine to desktop (web, games, etc).. but with all of that new linux features...
[14:05:08] <PerterB> he was beginning to feel a bit of a tw*t in front on the client, yeah :)
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[14:07:19] <leal> If the brandz give us a "full featured" machine, we can have a solaris OS instead. not a vmware...
[14:07:47] <lasseoe> I don't think that's the goal of it
[14:09:44] <jmcp> leal: if you want linux, run linux. if you want solaris, run solaris. if you want to have solaris hosting a linux environment, run solaris with brandZ
[14:09:51] <jmcp> choose the correct tool for the job
[14:10:16] <timeless> tracking millions of kernel versions is impractical
[14:10:21] <timeless> and pointless
[14:10:35] <timeless> i think the brandz docs explains which redhat kernel it emulates
[14:10:46] <jmcp> agreed
[14:10:57] <jmcp> 2.4.$mumble iirc
[14:11:07] <timeless> 16? *shrug*
[14:12:13] <jmcp> not important to me
[14:12:18] <jmcp> I can't run picasa under brandZ, so picasa is dead to me
[14:12:27] <leal> jmcp: ... It's just a question. i don't see that way... why brandz anyway? compiz is part of a linux environment.
[14:12:43] <jmcp> I'm not interested in linux
[14:12:49] <twincest> i thought compiz was some window manager
[14:13:04] <leal> jmcp: So, why brandz?????!!!
[14:13:22] <timeless> jmcp: wine? :)
[14:13:35] <lasseoe> timeless: beer please ;-)
[14:13:42] * timeless wonders if that works w/ solaris
[14:13:43] <asyd> both !
[14:13:49] <jmcp> leal: because somebody within Sun thought it would be a good thing to do
[14:13:50] <jmcp> timeless: I prefer it to beer, yes :)
[14:13:50] <jmcp> timeless: I haven't tried getting picasa to run with wine yet though
[14:14:00] <timeless> i tried wine w/ ubuntu and my system got so hosed that i installed opensolaris
[14:14:09] <lasseoe> heh
[14:14:15] * jmcp enjoys a local Beijing brew called Yanjing
[14:14:35] * timeless ponders "local"
[14:14:53] <jmcp> timeless: "brewed in Beijing City"
[14:15:23] <jmcp> the other option here right now is Qingdao, which is really light and kinda tasteless. It's almost as bad as Duff^WBud
[14:15:50] <Doc> yeah, but it's cheap
[14:16:05] <jmcp> Doc: I'll pay an extra CNY0.80 and get the Yanjing
[14:16:28] <leal> Anyone from the brandz team? I just want to know if the objective is fix that minor issues (driver specifics), or the focus is another apps.
[14:16:40] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: yeah...Yanjing kicks ass
[14:16:49] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: I like it better than Qingdao
[14:17:08] <timeless> to the extent there's a focus it should be on userspace support
[14:17:15] <dlynes_laptop> besides....yanjing comes in 1L bottles :)
[14:17:20] <timeless> i need to look into some doors to get scratchbox working
[14:17:22] <jmcp> :-)
[14:17:27] <Doc> best chinese beer i've ever had was over in the west.. damned if i can remember the name of it
[14:17:28] <timeless> that'd be remotely interesting
[14:17:29] <jmcp> see, a *real* volume
[14:17:47] <dlynes_laptop> Doc: that'd be Qingdao, and it's not as good as the yanjing jmcp's talking about
[14:17:50] <Doc> actually, no. the best was the tibet stuff
[14:18:21] <dlynes_laptop> but qingdao's won a lot more awards, because unlike yanjing, qingdao's exported
[14:18:24] <jmcp> Doc: well that won't be around for much longer now that the railway goes all the way to Tibet
[14:18:56] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: Does Beijing brand beer still exist?
[14:19:11] <dlynes_laptop> jmcp: that was my favorite beer when I was in Beijing
[14:19:22] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: the label on this can of Yanjing says "Monde Selection, Bruxelles. Selection Internationale de la Qualite"
[14:19:27] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: haven't seen it so far
[14:19:29] <Doc> i dont think the railway will chance things much more than they have already changed
[14:19:34] <jmcp> mind you, I haven't really gone looking for it
[14:20:14] <jmcp> Doc: I'll wait and see. I'm not too confident about the longevity of the Tibetan people
[14:20:19] <jmcp> dlynes_laptop: I'll keep checking
[14:20:20] <dlynes_laptop> oh yeah...there's one crappy Guangdong beer you can get here
[14:20:27] <dlynes_laptop> Zhujiang beer
[14:20:33] <dlynes_laptop> erm it's not guangdong
[14:20:45] <dlynes_laptop> It's from Zhejiang I think
[14:20:51] <Doc> tibetan people? have you ever been to tibet?
[14:21:16] <jmcp> Doc: no
[14:21:21] <Doc> when i was there 5 years ago, lhasa was 80% Han chinese
[14:21:29] <jmcp> Doc: that's my point
[14:21:43] <Doc> right. and like i said, the railway wont make much difference
[14:22:32] <Doc> that ship has sailed long ago (well, it would have if there was water for a ship to sail on there)
[14:23:05] <jmcp> I see a straw.... and a camel's back
[14:24:38] <noyb> razrX: regarding readline support in postgres, it occured to me that it would be easy to find the right guy with google, Josh Berkus.
[14:25:19] <Doc> hmm.. google has crap satellite photos for late titikaka
[14:25:22] <noyb> I don't know how accurate that is, or if he will respond directly.  It's just a google hit to me.
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[14:26:16] <jmcp> Doc: I'm blocked from wikipedia and wikimapia, and I don't have punchin access yet ..... I feel so un-informed!
[14:27:46] <hile_> suprised you don't have punchin access yet
[14:28:40] <jmcp> hile_: there are some interesting problems happening, which are really pissing me off
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[14:28:54] <jmcp> I'm almost at the point where I need to escalate to my Director
[14:29:42] <noyb> is it the nwk site?
[14:29:47] <jmcp> noyb: nope
[14:29:48] <jmcp> nwk is gone
[14:30:00] <noyb> yeah, that's why I ask.
[14:30:11] <jmcp> I'm in Beijing
[14:30:12] <jmcp> for the moment
[14:30:28] <noyb> just checking.  due to the "uninformed" comment.  :)
[14:30:38] <timeless> jmcp: so what brings you to china?
[14:30:54] <jmcp> timeless: 6 month contract working on some drivers for Sun
[14:31:20] <jmcp> timeless: it's really nice for the ego after being laid off to get a phone call saying "we have a need for your skills and experience"
[14:31:29] <twincest> jmcp: China firewall? set your proxy to rr.knams.wikimedia.org for wikipedia and see if it works
[14:32:04] <PosixCompliantNe> I read now (after your ansers ) about brandz, I wonder when there will someting
[14:32:06] <PosixCompliantNe> on linux
[14:32:13] <PosixCompliantNe> like this
[14:33:38] <jmcp> twincest: hmm. not quite sure how to get that happening inside firefox
[14:34:15] <timeless> jmcp: ff2 or 1.5?
[14:34:24] <sickness> i'm back
[14:35:01] <jmcp> timeless: 1.5.0.7
[14:35:20] <timeless> edit>preferences>general>connection settings
[14:35:32] <timeless> assuming it's a normal proxy
[14:35:37] <timeless> i didn't finish reading about it
[14:35:37] <jmcp> oh, right
[14:36:18] <LeftWing> Hah. Installation successful.
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[14:37:46] <timeless> i think it's not a proxy server
[14:37:57] <twincest> it's a squid
[14:38:02] <twincest> in reverse-proxy mode
[14:38:02] <timeless> ok
[14:38:25] <jmcp> oh
[14:40:15] <twincest> apparently Tor works as well (tor.eff.org)
[14:41:28] <PosixCompliantNe> .
[14:41:49] <PosixCompliantNe> error
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[15:07:16] <twincest> what exactly is CTF?  why is it better than dwarf?
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[15:07:36] <timeless> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.sun.com%2Flevon%2Fentry%2Freducing_ctf_overhead&ei=IQhjRb-UKoz4-ALp7qi9AQ&usg=__3hzx3DSVuczs5wMO2UO-MQ1ecj4=&sig2=uckFuuNZ1lmvZV47-OFxvA
[15:07:40] <timeless> blogs.sun.com/levon/entry/reducing_ctf_overhead
[15:08:30] <timeless> big reason seems to be "it's tiny/compact"
[15:08:41] <timeless> so they're willing to "bloat" the kernel and such w/ it
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[16:12:02] <LeftWing> Oh, no! The ksh93-integration project has been TERMINATED!!
[16:12:20] <LeftWing> (AKA: Time for another osol-discuss flame war, children.)
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[16:17:36] <delewis> LeftWing: hehe
[16:17:47] <delewis> I haven't found anything in the ksh93-integration list that says so
[16:18:05] <LeftWing> And I can't be arsed looking.
[16:18:53] <LeftWing> Besides, it isn't (as the e-mail says) the first true community-driven project anyway.  It's the first Roland-powered project. ;P
[16:19:00] <delewis> I think gisburn would be starting the 3rd World War if it had, indeed, been terminated.
[16:19:10] <LeftWing> Exactly.
[16:19:25] <LeftWing> He would have burnt the building down by now.
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[16:27:56] <jafari> jamesd_ , when you login to the zonesconsole using zlogin -C
[16:28:10] <jafari> how do i logoff of it when am dont
[16:28:12] <jafari> done
[16:28:22] <jafari> i tried crtl-d
[16:28:27] <jafari> doenst work
[16:28:27] <sommerfeld> Leftwing: indeed.  completely incoherant: "Sun has TERMINATED the ksh93-integration project, the first true
[16:28:27] <sommerfeld> community driven Opensolaris project by unacceptable review requests."
[16:28:40] <jafari> i had to find that PID and kill it
[16:28:46] <twincest> does he mean "I have TERMINATED the ksh93-integration project because i got fed up"?
[16:28:56] <delewis> jafari: RTFM
[16:28:59] <sommerfeld> jafari: read zlogin(1).      ~.       Disconnects from the zone. This is not the same  as
[16:28:59] <sommerfeld>               a logout, because the local host breaks the connec-
[16:28:59] <sommerfeld>               tion with no warning to the zone's end.
[16:29:00] <LeftWing> jafari: <Enter>~.
[16:29:03] <delewis> and like most things, there's an escape sequence
[16:29:09] <delewis> *cough* tip, cu, etc. *cough*
[16:29:27] <LeftWing> twincest: He could be drunk.
[16:29:32] <sommerfeld> *cough* ... ssh, rlogin, ...
[16:29:37] <jafari> ok thanks
[16:29:43] <Berny> ~. is bad...
[16:29:54] <delewis> Berny: -e is your friend.
[16:30:01] <Berny> .oO(try that when logged in via ssh to the global zone ;-))
[16:30:02] <twincest> oh hey, if ksh93 has gone away i can integrate my cmd/ fixes :D
[16:30:20] <LeftWing> Berny: <Enter>~~.
[16:30:40] <Berny> don't tell me ;-)
[16:31:08] <sommerfeld> twincest: it's not his to terminate
[16:31:37] <twincest> drat
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[16:46:09] <delewis> oh, I've heard it all now.
[16:46:22] <delewis> "Use VMware or Xen for Linux's lack of resource control"
[16:46:35] * delewis beats head against desk
[16:46:48] <delewis> courtesy of the local Java channel.
[16:47:52] <PerterB> gotta love those java folk and their grasp of systems issues ;)
[16:48:12] <delewis> yeah. :-)
[16:48:59] <jbk> :)
[16:50:30] <jbk> 'we'll create 10,000 threads... that shouldn't be a problem'
[16:51:12] <PerterB> '... and one mutex to synchronise them'
[16:51:19] <quasi> jbk: and don't forget the global mutex
[16:52:01] <jbk> we actually have one program, while the vendor never did confirm this, based on the behavior, it appears to spawn a new thread for every connection
[16:52:12] <jbk> the problem is, it never stops if the backend systems start slowing down
[16:52:22] <tomww> funny: setting the notebooks time forward makes the screen blanking
[16:52:23] <quasi> jbk: that's not uncommon
[16:52:32] <tomww> ...in real activation of the screensaver
[16:53:00] <jbk> so on one box we have like 3 jvms each with around 6000 lwps
[16:53:19] <PerterB> bit... the backend is just another java object, what could possibly go wrong ;)
[16:53:22] <PerterB> *but
[16:53:35] <jbk> :)
[16:54:30] <Cyrille> write once, grind to a halt anywhere
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[17:02:46] <elektronkind> anyone care to fill me in on what happened with ksh93?
[17:03:57] <mrdeviant> was it killed and eaten by a hoarde of angry komodo dragons ?
[17:03:58] <elektronkind> ah, nevermind. aparently some tool likes to start rumors
[17:05:36] <andersmo> Oh no! Not the komodo dragons again!
[17:05:39] * andersmo flees in terror
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[17:06:52] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: so, as best as I can tell, the sequence of events was: 1) someone notices that the test suite fails when run during nightly builds.  2) sun reviewer points out the reason why this happens and suggests changes to fix it 3) Martin Schaffstall sees this suggested fix and believes it's time for gisburn to take his ball and go home.
[17:07:18] <elektronkind> wha?
[17:07:27] <elektronkind> people are weird
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[17:09:51] <__alex___> Hi, we have a solaris, the install process is failing with error : "cannot find hard drive". I think the hard drive had an old linux install on it  . What is the command to use fdisk on the hard drive' ?
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[17:09:59] <leal_> I'm trying to install a RHEL 3 on a brandz, and getting the error: Unable to find a supported Linux release on...
[17:10:03] <__alex___> current disk is  : c0t0d0
[17:10:08] <__alex___> pci@1f,4000/scsi@3/sd@0,0
[17:10:35] <leal_> I'm not seeing access to the cdrom drive... the vold is running and the cdrom is mounted.
[17:10:44] <leal_> solaris nevada b50.
[17:10:49] <leal_> any tips?
[17:11:52] <jamesd_> screw cd's use iso's and loop back mount them
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[17:12:41] <dunc_> Latest builds: SXCR: 52 # does that mean there'll be a dvd d/loadable soon?
[17:13:01] <jamesd_> yes  it should be out allready..
[17:13:14] <quasi> dunc_: the isos often trail by a week or two
[17:13:33] <dunc_> ah right cheers, I checked this morning like
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[17:28:28] <tomww> wxwidgets rocks :)
[17:30:02] <jbk> heh 'please see comments section'
[17:32:54] <alanc> the sxcr 52 dvd's were up yesterday
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[17:34:19] <Fetch> alanc: did they get taken down?
[17:34:30] <alanc> not that I know of
[17:34:32] <Fetch> I pulled whatever was on sun.com last night, and it was 50
[17:35:06] <alanc> that sounds like the Solaris Express from sun.com - SX:CR is newer but is only available from opensolaris.org
[17:35:26] <Fetch> ah, ok. opensolaris.org only linked to the sun.com
[17:35:34] <Fetch> and I was way too tired and noobish to know better :)
[17:36:05] <Fetch> I would kill for a best-guess meta-dnode repair tool
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[17:36:31] <alanc> the links on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/ still point to the 52 download links
[17:36:53] <Fetch> huh, so they do
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[17:55:16] <jafari> jamesd_ , are you there?
[17:55:24] <jamesd_> yes
[17:55:50] <jafari> when i created the zone right, the server i installed it on had 2 hardrives
[17:56:08] <jafari> and it installed the zone only on 1 hdd
[17:56:09] <jamesd_> okay.. why does that matter
[17:56:21] <jafari> the second one i had it set up like /export/home
[17:56:26] <jamesd_> the zone is installed in its zonepath
[17:56:33] <jafari> was wondering why it didnt detect it?
[17:56:40] <jafari> oh
[17:56:59] <jafari> that answer my question thanks
[17:57:16] <jamesd_> best solution for that if you need home directories is to setup automounter to mount them.
[17:57:26] <jafari> ok
[17:57:50] * djgregor wonders why can't Solaris automatically correct for non-ECC memory errors ;-)
[17:57:53] * djgregor kids, of course
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[17:59:15] <jamesd_> djgregor, because its cheaper to do it in hardware.. you could make an OS do fix ECC erorrs.. but it requires a lot of overhead.
[17:59:56] <djgregor> jamesd_: yeah, I totally understand... was just kidding... lost bit 2 on an ECC DIMM last night
[18:00:09] <djgregor> at least the machine paniced for a good reason. ;-)
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[18:00:50] <djgregor> The machine was an impulse buy, and I'm actually using it, so I'm trying to figure out if I can put ECC memory in it
[18:00:59] <djgregor> s/using it/using it now/
[18:01:19] <lasseoe> lastlog 100
[18:02:29] <djgregor> anyone ever seen modern AMD Athlon64 systems that wouldn't take advantage of ECC memory?
[18:03:58] <quasi> djgregor: I thinl so - I'm pretty sure I was looking at a mini-pc thingy with an am2 socket that was non-ecc
[18:04:17] <djgregor> quasi: doh... okay
[18:04:50] <djgregor> this is a Compaq system, and their web site says that it doesn't do ECC, but the AMD Athlon64 has an onboard memory controller that does ECC
[18:04:59] <djgregor> I'm *hoping* that the Compaq specs are wrong
[18:06:26] <Stric> djgregor: there are apparently also BIOS issues with actually turning it on where lots of manufacturers fail..
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[18:07:59] <djgregor> Stric: ah, forgot about possible BIOS issues
[18:08:08] <pixie_> djgregor tyan have a a64 box that wont take ecc
[18:09:46] <djgregor> darn
[18:09:47] <djgregor> okay
[18:09:54] <djgregor> that'll teach me to not make impulse buys
[18:10:33] <Stric> I would say that you have to specifically look for ECC supporting mobos if you want it
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[18:13:25] <gdamore> hi *
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[18:24:06] <bougie> hello :p
[18:24:30] * OnkelSchorsch dances the boogie woogie :)
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[18:47:46] <myrkraverk> just a question, is the / as directory separator built into zfs, or is that just how solaris interfaces it? -- that is, will there be a consiquence of porting zfs to a system with different dir separators and such things?
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[18:49:00] <jamesd_> myrkraverk, only windows would have a different  seperator.. at least of any moddern OS i have used.
[18:49:26] <PerterB> OpenVMS? :)
[18:49:54] <myrkraverk> jamesd_: yes, but I'm 1) not thinking about windows and 2) not sure if you'd call it modern - os/2 is a thing in mind
[18:50:16] <myrkraverk> PerterB: only if I get my hands on an actual box ;)
[18:50:22] <jamesd_> os/s should use  / or \ interchanibly..
[18:50:53] <myrkraverk> vms uses . as a separator ;)
[18:51:49] <PerterB> for most operations (on Unix) the vfs layer handles all the directory parsing stuff anyway, but with some zfs bits (like creating new filesystems in a pool) the / might well be very built in
[18:51:59] <myrkraverk> PerterB: you'll show up, here in Iceland, with an alpha or itanium, and I'll port zfs ;)
[18:52:13] <twincest> ODS-Z ;-D
[18:53:18] <myrkraverk> PerterB: ok - but those bits should not be too hard to deal with, I hope
[18:55:44] * myrkraverk continues to sigh and read art of assembly (x86 *is* horrible)
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[19:57:19] <timeless> who do i yell at about CNSAdapter_NSPR::JD_Close?
[20:05:37] <myrkraverk> timeless: not me, please, unless it makes you feel better ;)
[20:06:07] <myrkraverk> is there a way to monitor cach hit/misses in an application?
[20:06:56] <jamesd_> depends on the cpu, amd,  T1, and ultra3 and later have cpu registers that you can access using special tools
[20:07:35] <sommerfeld> cpustat is the shell-level interface to CPU event counters which generally cover cache miss stats among other things.
[20:08:08] <myrkraverk> I have Intel Core 2 Duo - will that help?
[20:08:48] <myrkraverk> (I'll look in my Intel books later)
[20:09:21] <myrkraverk> sommerfeld: but that only gives me statistics, not the actual cache misses, right?
[20:09:23] <andersmo> myrkraverk: valgrind?
[20:09:36] <myrkraverk> what is valgrind?
[20:09:45] <andersmo> Hm, it's linux specific.
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[20:10:22] <myrkraverk> andersmo: aparently, yes
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[20:11:43] <myrkraverk> I'd have thought cache miss (and maybe hit) provider for dtrace would be in order :P
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[20:12:53] <jamesd_> i think there is an RFE allready filed
[20:13:53] <timeless> can someone help me find a home for /var/crash/cores/bonobo-activatio.836.global.100.1161281202.swift http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1499
[20:14:07] <timeless> myrkraverk: i'll use peng
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[20:28:35] <alhop> Hi Alan C from Al Hopper
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[20:31:06] <alanc> hello
[20:31:16] <stevel> myrkraverk: use the libcpc interfaces
[20:31:35] <stevel> (cpu performance counters)
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[20:31:47] <alhop> was I too harse on Martin Schaffstall this AM?
[20:33:59] <alanc> I don't remember you being much harsher than I was
[20:34:06] <alanc> it's not the first time he's done this
[20:34:38] <alhop> yes but you were more diplomatic - and I checked the
[20:34:49] <alhop> archives and saw his track record
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[20:39:08] <myrkraverk> stevel: ah, k
[20:40:34] <twincest> what a tosser
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[20:41:00] <Gman> hey hey hey
[20:41:11] <alanc> sadly, human nature seems to make it impossible to have a open community without people who try to poison it
[20:41:37] <clee> alanc: just have to be willing to man up and tell them to fuck themselves
[20:41:47] <clee> (probably in nicer terms, but.)
[20:41:53] <Gman> oooh, another opensolaris flame?
[20:41:58] <alanc> somewhere I've got saved a bookmark to a presentation from google on it
[20:42:14] <clee> alanc: about how open communities get poisoned?
[20:42:59] <alanc> martin what's-his-name "announced" today that Sun has killed the ksh93 project because the reviewers keep pushing to make running the test suite part of the Solaris testing process instead of the ON build process
[20:43:08] <alanc> clee: yeah
[20:43:26] <clee> alanc: ugh
[20:43:45] <alanc> there it is: http://www.red-bean.com/dav/presentations/Poisonous-people.pdf
[20:43:51] * timeless doesn't recognize martin
[20:44:22] <alanc> his sole involvement seems  to be popping up every couple of months to claim Sun is sabotaging the ksh93 project
[20:45:11] <alanc> some of the recommendations are similar to the "lessons learned" plocher posted after ksh93 code review
[20:46:00] <alanc> err, ARC review
[20:46:19] <alhop> what's strange is that I see people say "I going to do blah, blah because blah, blah"
[20:46:45] <alhop> whereas my inclination would be to first write "what's the best way to do blah, blah"
[20:47:26] <twincest> i like the bit where he accuses casper of ksh93 hatemail
[20:47:32] <alhop> One cannot be master of everything - someone working a given software niche 50hours
[20:47:46] <Error_404> why is this ksh93 issue so contentious?
[20:48:01] <alhop> a week every week has to be  more knowledgable than someone doing it for the first time?
[20:48:04] <twincest> Error: it's not, except that people keep trying to ake it so
[20:48:05] <Error_404> the ksh93 zealots are almost as bad as the kde/gnome zealots
[20:48:11] <stevel> error_404: cause we (sun) are clearly sabotaging the project
[20:48:13] <stevel> can't you see
[20:48:17] <stevel> :-P
[20:48:52] <twincest> Error: some people in the community think it's a simple project, whereas sun is trying to impose their standard rules for such projects..
[20:48:55] <Error_404> If somebody wants ksh93, nothing's stopping them from adding it on... I don't see the problem with it not even being in Solaris at all
[20:49:14] <twincest> Error: they want /bin/ksh to be ksh93
[20:49:17] <alanc> just be glad they haven't found out about the 4 hours a day we all spend in meetings planning new ways to sabotage it...
[20:49:57] <stevel> alanc: 4?  i only spend 2 hours
[20:50:01] <alanc> because we clearly have nothing else to do and want to make the first big opensolaris project example a clear sign that it's going to fail
[20:50:17] <stevel> the other 2 hours i spend greasing my gun, and filling my bullets
[20:50:26] <Error_404> twincest: so why don't they just replace /bin/ksh with their own version ?
[20:50:35] <alhop> am I right in the following: if you want it integrated in ON you have to be prepared to play by ON rules?   That makes sense to me.
[20:50:39] <Gman> stevel, dude, with all your screwups, you are sabotaging it!
[20:50:43] * Gman runs very fast, very hard
[20:50:44] <twincest> Error: because replaccing random parts of the OS is stupid and unsupportable?
[20:50:49] <stevel> gman: that may be true - but it's not intentional
[20:50:51] <stevel> ;-)
[20:51:00] * stevel chases after Gman with his aforementioned gun very very fast
[20:51:09] <twincest> Error: plus that'd still leave default Solaris having an out of date ksh93, so it doesn't help with portability at all
[20:51:12] <stevel> (my very very fast trumps your very fast)
[20:51:15] <twincest> er, ksh88 i mean
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[20:51:19] <Gman> heh
[20:51:33] <Error_404> portability across what?
[20:51:42] <twincest> Unixes
[20:51:47] <Error_404> solaris & AIX, then
[20:53:05] <Stric> /bin/sh on AIX is some ksh thingie
[20:53:50] <Stric> @(#)37  1.18.1.13  src/bos/usr/bin/ksh/history.c, cmdksh, bos51G, g2003_12D7 3/18/03 02:22:18
[20:53:54] <Stric> etc
[20:54:19] <Stric> or you can come to that conclusion by seeing that it is a hardlink to /bin/ksh :P
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[20:56:24] <twincest> /usr/xpg4/bin/sh on solaris is ksh too
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[20:57:05] <Stric> "An enchanced version of the korn shell, called ksh93, is also available." .. so I'm guessing it's ksh88 or something
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[20:58:20] <alhop> interesting paper (Poisonous people)...
[20:59:20] <gisburn> Can anyone remind me that I don't take new projects, even if they look interesting ?
[20:59:52] <timeless> alac: thanks for the url
[20:59:53] <alhop> hello gisburn - we've been talking about  your project...
[21:00:00] <gisburn> uh-oh
[21:00:10] <timeless> alanc :(
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[21:00:25] <gisburn> or better..
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[21:00:30] <alanc> welcome - I forwarded it on to arc-discuss as well
[21:00:47] <alanc> though ksh93-integration needs it most right now, but already has enough e-mail
[21:01:31] <gisburn> alhop: which one ? ksh93-integration, genochart, opencyc ... ?
[21:01:55] <alanc> the one that's generated a dozen mails to opensolaris-discuss today 8-P
[21:01:58] <whaq> heya
[21:02:24] <whaq> do you guys like solaris' partitioning scheme, w/ all its slices?
[21:02:35] <gisburn> alanc: Yeah, I read that... and spend the next ten minutes to vomit the contents of my stomach elsewhere.
[21:02:37] <Stric> too few of them
[21:02:40] * gisburn is sick of it.
[21:02:50] <twincest> whaq: there is no 'solaris partitioning scheme', you can partition however you like
[21:02:59] <alhop> ksh93 - the most important one of course :)
[21:04:23] <gisburn> alanc: I think we may want to make a decision whether we can continue the project that way or "reset" it, ship ksh93 natively built from SFW and dump the /usr/bin/ksh migration.  At leasth then I would have my peace.
[21:04:26] <timeless> whaq: i ignore slices and like zvolumes :)
[21:04:58] <alanc> you seem so close to finishing with the current plan, seems like a big waste to reset now
[21:05:21] <alhop> please - don't "reset" youve 95% of the way there....
[21:06:01] <Error_404> ditch ksh93, i'm tired of hearing about it
[21:06:14] <alanc> you might have to have a flag day, but so what?   look at the ON pages for how many there are of those - it's no big deal
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[21:07:16] <alhop> I'm no ON integration specialist - but the "flag day" option seems quick and easy.  Done deal IMHO
[21:07:27] <gisburn> alhop: I am around 20mins at home, spend 5mins reading emails and then ten mins to get of my lunch the wrong way because somehow we have trolls on the list I cannot control. And the largest troll (not on the list) is the backport sponsor who's even more xx@@!! than our little sheep lover (Marin Schafstall)
[21:07:42] <_william_> hi all
[21:07:58] * gisburn fees sick and tired of it
[21:08:03] <alanc> backport sponsor?
[21:08:16] <gisburn> alanc: irek sceniak/GE Healthcare
[21:09:16] <gisburn> alanc: where "sponsor" means $$$$, not "Sun sponsor"
[21:09:22] <alanc> ah
[21:09:32] <alanc> I was confused how you had a sponsor for a backport
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[21:10:01] <Axposf> hi all :)
[21:10:02] <alanc> so he's going to convince his Sun contacts that ksh93 is important enough to backport?
[21:10:05] <alhop> gisburn: keep your eye on the ball.  the prize is in sight.  There's light at the end of the tunnel
[21:10:36] <gisburn> alhop: right now I don't see the end of the tunnel... only a light... and that's likely a train coming in my direction
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[21:10:48] <gisburn> alhop: (sorry for being pessimistic)
[21:11:24] <alhop> don't allow the trolls to distract you and to take away from your achievements to date.  that is what they want...
[21:11:41] <gisburn> alhop: tell that my stomach... ;-(
[21:11:57] <jbk> think how gratifying it'll be to demonstrate what an ass the guy is by finishing the project :)
[21:12:05] * gisburn has the urgend need to kick something innocent
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[21:12:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[21:12:27] <alanc> do we need to send you a bottle of antacids?
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[21:12:53] <alhop> something can only affect you if you let it.  you have control of the horizontal; you have control of the vertical...
[21:13:01] *** dosbot was kicked by nrubsig (REVENGE!)
[21:13:12] *** cluebot was kicked by nrubsig (REVENGE!)
[21:13:17] <nrubsig> grumpf
[21:13:18] <wilbury> cluebat
[21:13:18] <wilbury> :-P
[21:13:25] <nrubsig> better :-)
[21:13:38] *** nrubsig sets mode: -o nrubsig
[21:14:08] <nrubsig> alanc: what are "antacids" ?
[21:14:43] <nrubsig> alhop: what do you mean the horizontal/vertical thing ?
[21:16:31] <alhop> its from a TV series (the outer limits) that began by telling the audience not to adjust the TV "we control the horizontal; we control the vertical" with eerie music  playing in the background
[21:17:24] <alhop> the inference being that you control how you let something or someone affect you...
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[21:19:16] <alhop> i'm just catching up on the mail on osol-discuss. pretty funny...
[21:19:21] <sommerfeld> antacids: medication to reduce stomach acid to treat symptoms of stomach ulcers, etc.,
[21:19:26] <timeless> twilight zone
[21:19:41] <alhop> yep - thats it - thanks
[21:20:32] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: right now I would prefer a club. First to beat one or two people to death and then use it on myself to shut down my brain for today.
[21:21:42] * delewis watches nrubsig meltdown
[21:22:12] <nrubsig> alhop: and I don't agree with the idea that the project is 95% done. Judging about various review comments we're around 40% done.
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[21:23:51] <alhop> what about the speed with which the getconf stuff was done?  that was pretty impressive imho.
[21:23:58] <nrubsig> And I am not happy with the idea to ship a 2nd ksh93 as part of the build tools because this would replicate lots of pain in another location of the tree and then ditch it a few nevada release cycles later. That is IMHO stupid.
[21:24:30] <nrubsig> it will at least take two weeks to get this setup and tested.
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[21:25:29] <delewis> nrubsig: any luck on appropriating some SPARC hardware for ksh93?
[21:25:37] <nrubsig> delewis: yes
[21:25:49] <nrubsig> nrubsig: thanks to al hopper... :-)
[21:25:54] <nrubsig> we
[21:25:55] <nrubsig> er
[21:26:00] <delewis> cool
[21:26:09] <delewis> glad to see someone came to the rescue.
[21:26:21] <nrubsig> delewis: it shortcut a few months of debugging via email
[21:26:37] <delewis> I can imagine
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[21:42:43] <dwc-> speaking of ksh93 and sparc, I should get around to fixing my machine
[21:43:12] <delewis> heh,  I'm doing an LU of nv52 on my SB1000 today.
[21:43:53] <delewis> should probably upgrade the E4500, as well.
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[21:47:05] <Dragonfire1> Hi I have tried to download Solaris 10 It seems everytime I try it is down or the page doesn't open. I surely would like to try this on a Sun Micro Ultra 10 I have.
[21:51:12] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: just bad luck, i guess
[21:53:29] <Dragonfire1> everytime I pull this one out from under the counter I have bad luck download sites always down. Oh well have to go add another Linux sorry. I will just have to keep trying.
[21:54:05] <twincest> it seems unlikely that the site is _always_ down
[21:54:10] <twincest> sounds like something is wrong at your end..
[21:54:16] <Dragonfire1> Such a clean SUn Ultra with no OS in it ah $5 bucks what do I want.
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[21:54:54] <Dragonfire1> Well I just tried on this linux sytem as well as a Blue screen. Its alwasy some smarty that thinks it the operator.
[21:55:14] <Dragonfire1> SO I guess this is a smarty site that could care less about helping.
[21:56:01] <twincest> uh.. what?
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[21:57:23] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: i'm sure if there was a problem with the site, this channel would be getting spammed with people complaining about it
[21:57:40] <Dragonfire1> Well how come it says down under maintenance
[21:58:09] <Dragonfire1> even when I checked the sites mentioned they don't open for the download
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[21:59:26] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: which page are you going to?
[21:59:36] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: and what link are you clicking on?
[21:59:48] <Dragonfire1> Let me look to post
[22:00:27] <Dragonfire1> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/
[22:00:40] <Dragonfire1> thats the last one then the Sun Micro site
[22:00:57] <Dragonfire1> I just got finished prior to coming in here with chat at Sun
[22:01:23] <Dragonfire1> Sites are having maintenance at sun that I see for Solaris 10
[22:01:34] <dlynes_laptop> nvm....I'm getting that message now, too
[22:01:44] <dlynes_laptop> I wasn't getting it 20 or 30 seconds ago, though
[22:01:53] <Dragonfire1> Figured I would search for a mirror site or some other downlaod area. Then I saw this IRC chat and came in for help
[22:02:04] <Dragonfire1> Sites are having maintenance at sun that I see for Solaris 10
[22:02:31] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: You've only tried downloading it today?  not previously?
[22:02:55] <Dragonfire1> It may be the XP so I tried on the Linux sytem as well I think just bad luck. Doesn't want me to get sucked into another OS
[22:03:18] <Dragonfire1> I have tried other times month ago I will keep trying in the weeks ahead
[22:03:21] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: are you just wanting to install solaris on an intel box?
[22:03:34] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: or are you wanting opensolaris, specifically?
[22:04:24] <Dragonfire1> I just want to try on this Sun I have to get it up and runing  CHat told me SOlaris 10 would work
[22:04:59] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: try downloading solaris instead...that site's not offline
[22:05:10] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/
[22:05:11] <Dragonfire1> Just tyring to breath life into these computers I pick up. Was impressed this was a Sun. I have a number of books and would like to learn it
[22:05:22] <Dragonfire1> Let me go there thanks
[22:05:23] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: the irc channel for solaris is #solaris
[22:05:48] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: that includes the complete isos
[22:05:48] <Error_404> dlynes_laptop: actually, this is a much better place
[22:05:58] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: so you don't need to make your own isos
[22:06:20] <dlynes_laptop> Error_404: Yeah, but #solaris is the official channel for solaris as opposed to #opensolaris, isn't it?
[22:06:35] <dlynes_laptop> Error_404: although sun employees apparently hang out here and not in #solaris
[22:06:36] <Dragonfire1> oh okay on channel I will fix that as well thanks
[22:09:32] <tomww> managed to setup a SFEddd.spec :)
[22:10:17] <Dragonfire1> This server has encountered an internal error which prevents it from fulfilling your request. The most likely cause is a misconfiguration. Please ask the administrator to look for messages in the server's error log.
[22:10:37] <Dragonfire1> I will go try again on the XP computer but I was there earlier
[22:10:52] <Error_404> #solaris isn't official
[22:12:36] <Error_404> Dragonfire1: if i understand correctly, your only problem is that SDLC is down?
[22:15:13] <Dragonfire1> I click Solaris 10 6/06 then get downloads and media. Put my user name in and password
[22:15:35] <Dragonfire1> Down for sytem upgrades I will wait try later tonight
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[22:15:50] <Dragonfire1> let me fix this chat area  change it
[22:15:52] <Error_404> yeah, give it an hour or two
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[22:18:58] <Dragonfire1> So what is this room for versus #solaris?
[22:19:22] <Dragonfire1> Thanks for the help I will try download later
[22:20:59] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: I'm not the best person to answer that question...perhaps error_404 might be able to tell you
[22:21:12] <Dragonfire1> I'm out of computers to add OS too. Figured I would take out this Sun Micro Tower  to get it going.
[22:21:27] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: in my mind, opensolaris and solaris are the same thing, but other people have told me that's not the case
[22:22:12] <dlynes_laptop> Dragonfire1: Some masochist was telling me the other day about all the fun he had installing Qnx 4.2 onto a Sparc :)
[22:22:22] <Dragonfire1> No problem I will wait Have a long week ahead. Got to cold in FL. man the Shrimp will run tonight.
[22:23:21] <Dragonfire1> I will surely understand that one in the days ahead. Time to start reading the Solaris books.
[22:24:23] <Error_404> This channel is the "official" opensolaris IRC channel
[22:24:34] <Error_404> a bunch of folks that work at Sun hang out here
[22:25:02] <Error_404> #solaris was started by a bunch of enthusiasts a few years ago, and has no relation to sun microsystems at all
[22:25:03] <Dragonfire1> I goog that one to figure it out at least try thanks.
[22:25:32] <Dragonfire1> thanks error I wish them the best
[22:25:54] <Dragonfire1> Never liked the nonsense from the Giant
[22:26:51] <Error_404> Giant?
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[22:29:16] <OnkelSchorsch> hm. the sun type 7 is so awesome.
[22:29:20] * OnkelSchorsch likes it :)
[22:32:19] <dlynes_laptop> what's cool about it?  isn't it the standard sun keyboard and mouse?
[22:33:27] <Error_404> all i have is that godawful type5 with the "optical" mouse that doesn't work ever
[22:34:37] <dlynes_laptop> oh...i guess the ones i have are the type 6's
[22:35:03] <dlynes_laptop> but i always just use a usb keyboard and mouse
[22:35:12] <dlynes_laptop> or ssh/serial terminal
[22:36:39] <OnkelSchorsch> it feels good, the sound is good. I like it better than all the other sun keyboards I've used (types 3,4,5,6)
[22:37:42] <Tp_away> !seen stevel
[22:37:44] <Drone> stevel is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Tue 21 Nov 2006 19:54 GMT, saying '(my very very fast trumps your very fast)'.
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[22:38:05] <Tp_away> you around stevel?
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[22:43:59] <Dragonfire1> The Sun Ultra 10 Creator. Will that only run on Solaris?
[22:44:19] <jamesd_> the ultra 10 can use  solaris 7 and later.
[22:45:56] <Dragonfire1> Reading the old manual online 7 and up I see. Can it take anything other on this unit? BSD, Linux etc.
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[22:46:22] <Dragonfire1> thanks Jamesd
[22:47:01] <dlg> Dragonfire1: you can run linux and openbsd on the u10
[22:47:04] <dlg> maybe netbsd as well
[22:47:12] <jamesd_> yes, but its not recomended...  solaris will be faster.
[22:47:33] <Dragonfire1> Let me ask you this how do you get into the setup  for the boot to set it to the CD
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[22:47:55] <Dragonfire1> I will try a Solaris soon as I can get a download
[22:47:58] <dlg> jamesd_: i dunno, that depends on what you're doing
[22:48:10] <Dragonfire1> Hope this unit runs sounds okay
[22:48:13] <Dragonfire1> but no OS
[22:48:43] <jamesd_> dlg, given that gcc is slow on sparc,  solaris should be faster at least doing typical tasks on  solaris 8 or later unless ram is really limited.
[22:48:45] <Dragonfire1> I tried a number of key delete F1 etc
[22:49:35] <Dragonfire1> ram 256 two 128 stciks in it Unique ram sticks. I will search for other ssticks in future
[22:49:48] <dlg> Dragonfire1: try stop-a during the startup
[22:50:04] <dlg> when you get the ofw prompt you can boot off cd with "boot cdrom"
[22:50:05] <Dragonfire1> So any clues to get the set up boot
[22:50:24] <dlynes_laptop> jamesd_: why has gcc become so popular on sparc, then?
[22:50:25] <Dragonfire1> Let me go look at the keyboard for that one DLG
[22:50:29] <dlg> jamesd_: i guess. solaris just feels heavy to me
[22:50:51] <dwc-> dlynes_laptop: because there's a lot of crap that doesn't compile with anything other than gcc
[22:50:57] <dlynes_laptop> dwc-: ah
[22:50:58] <jamesd_> dlynes_laptop, because its easier to port  linuxisms..  with gcc
[22:51:12] <jamesd_> dlg, solaris 8 is nice and lite.
[22:51:21] <dlynes_laptop> on that note, any idea where pkg-get installs gcc?
[22:51:24] <dlg> heh
[22:51:31] <dlynes_laptop> I've installed gcc, but can't for the life of me find it
[22:51:35] <jbk> probably under /opt/csw/bin
[22:51:36] <jamesd_> dlynes_laptop, /opt/csw/gcc*
[22:51:38] <dlynes_laptop> and it's not showing up in my path, either
[22:51:39] <dwc-> look in /opt/csw/gcc
[22:53:07] <dlynes_laptop> ah...thanks
[22:53:20] <dlynes_laptop> kinda crazy that it doesn't put it in the path, though
[22:55:03] <dlg> dlynes_laptop: using sol10?
[22:55:11] <dlynes_laptop> sol8
[22:55:29] <dlynes_laptop> I've got sol10 on some of my other boxes though
[22:55:34] <dlynes_laptop> and sol9 on another
[22:56:02] <dlynes_laptop> ewww...it's gcc 2.95.3, too
[22:56:07] <dlynes_laptop> super ancient version
[22:56:38] <dwc-> there's probably a gcc3 package
[22:56:43] <dwc-> maybe even gcc4
[22:56:47] <dlynes_laptop> ah
[22:58:10] <dlynes_laptop> I guess they'll all install to /opt/csw/gcc2, /opt/csw/gcc3 and /opt/csw/gcc4
[22:58:14] <Gman> stevel, yay, SPN on 4793867!
[22:58:39] <dlynes_laptop> What's the 'csw' an abbreviation for, anyways?
[22:58:50] <dlynes_laptop> C sourceware?
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[22:59:07] <Gman> companion soft ware?
[22:59:11] <mrdeviant> community software
[22:59:18] <dlynes_laptop> ah
[22:59:21] <dlynes_laptop> thanks
[23:01:28] <jbk> anyone know of a way if using rbac w/ldap to be able to not only control access to roles on a per user basis, but also on a per server basis?
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[23:03:26] <jbk> i haven't been able to figure out a way, and it's been a stumbling block w/ using roles + rbac
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[23:15:15] <stevel> gman: took them freaking long enough
[23:15:46] <Gman> stevel, well, given that it had to be approved by vp's :)
[23:15:53] <stevel> yeah, i didn't realise that
[23:15:53] <stevel> jeez
[23:16:30] <Gman> we have the schwartz!
[23:16:54] <noyb> the ultimate power in the universe!
[23:16:59] <jamesd_> may the schwartz be with you!!!!!
[23:17:10] <stevel> "and i see your schwartz is as big as mine.... now let's see how well you handle it"
[23:17:17] <noyb> now that's just silly.
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[23:19:20] <stevel> my bad. i forgot this channel has a minimum maturity level requirement ;-)
[23:19:20] <Tp_away> stevel: does how you deliver the nightly encumebred bins change how i should deliver weekly? ie should I drop into teh same directory with the same naming?
[23:19:26] <Burana> do not underestimate the power of the Schwartz!
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[23:19:41] <eboutilier> SPN on 4793867?
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[23:21:04] <stevel> eboutilier: service provider note, re: planet opensolaris
[23:21:19] <stevel> tp_away: nope, shouldn't change your stuff at all.  the weekly delivery continues unchanged
[23:21:28] <Tp_away> ok
[23:21:33] <Tp_away> (i missed this week)
[23:21:50] <eboutilier> stevel: thanks
[23:22:03] <Tp_away> stevel: next, could you have a look at that webrev?
[23:22:20] <stevel> (11:25:06) stevel: alanhome: it looks fine to me
[23:22:23] <stevel> (from #onnv)
[23:22:25] <stevel> already did
[23:22:28] <Tp_away> ahh, I missed that
[23:22:36] <Tp_away> cool, i take it kupfer is still ill?
[23:22:58] <stevel> afaik, yeah
[23:23:05] <stevel> he dialed into a meeting this morning and sounded like crap
[23:23:23] <Tp_away> ok, I'll run an open x86 build with that makefile and then submit an rti looking for someone else to be the advocate
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[23:35:56] <Tp_away> stevel: I have a change I want to make to it
[23:36:12] <Tp_away> see tha line that says $(ECHO) "Copying closed binaries from $$ON_CLOSED_BINS";
[23:36:23] <Tp_away> I want to make that $$CLOSED_ROOT
[23:36:29] <Tp_away> still ok?
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[23:37:01] <stevel> seems good
[23:37:29] <Tp_away> i just got caught, my test on spar clast night, i didnt put the new makefile into place and didnt notice it; the log was nto helpful
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[23:38:57] <Tp_away> hmmmm we should probably also mention root_$(MACH)$${RELEASE_BUILD+-nd} in the error mesg for the dircheck above it too
[23:39:56] <Tp_away> something like the addition of "root_$(MACH)$${RELEASE_BUILD+-nd} is not present in $$ON_CLOSED_BINS"
[23:40:15] <Tp_away> i'll fix it up and repost to you and danek
[23:40:21] <stevel> k
[23:44:53] <boyd_> The amount of time the vermillion install script takes amazes me every time
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