[00:01:23] <Plaidrab> Is opensolaris-build-extras-DATE.sparc.tar.bz2 nolong needed? I can't find it
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[00:04:21] <stevel> it's no longer needed
[00:04:27] <stevel> do you see it referenced somewhere?
[00:05:29] <Plaidrab> Several places
[00:05:56] <Plaidrab> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/ an example/
[00:06:29] *** jamesd_AFK is now known as jamesd
[00:06:48] <stevel> where else?
[00:06:57] <stevel> i just removed the reference on that page
[00:07:12] <Plaidrab> Several similar pages. I closed most of them already. :/
[00:07:13] <dwc-> time to suck down all of www.os.org and grep!
[00:07:43] <stevel> :P
[00:07:46] <Plaidrab> Well, I mighta also had three windows to the same page. :)
[00:07:56] <dwc-> (or wait for google to reindex it all)
[00:08:09] <Plaidrab> Also this. http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/README.opensolaris
[00:08:42] <dwc-> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/gcc/build_instr/;jsessionid=DEFA3FE25271E4E3ABF5D3A8292324D9
[00:08:50] <stevel> okay, fixed that - that will be fixed in the next delivery
[00:09:07] <stevel> that page is hopelessly out of date
[00:09:27] <dwc-> terminate with extreme prejudice
[00:09:51] <Plaidrab> Okay. I'm trying to get set up so I can build some "Not part of OpenSolaris" projects. I installed from the Nevada discs yesterday. What do I need to do to get a) up to date and b) able to compile. Is there a current pointer?
[00:09:54] <richlowe> stevel: so, you see my point about the README bit yet? ;)
[00:10:29] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:10:46] <stevel> richlowe: :)
[00:13:41] <Plaidrab> Oh, that's rich. I just got spam from the eng domain.
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[00:15:26] <stevel> richlowe: i think i've got my cronjob all setup to deliver nightly closed-bins
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[00:19:47] <richlowe> stevel: I guess I better stop managing them with hg then, huh?
[00:20:00] <richlowe> or I could keep doing it, and see how long it takes that workspace to pass onnv in size.
[00:20:37] <movement> real    50m2.251s cloning onnv-gate. hmm.
[00:22:02] <stevel> movement: ouch
[00:22:08] <stevel> UK?
[00:23:22] * boyd starts his clone of the new repo
[00:23:34] <movement> yes. quite crappy connection (400kbytes/s max usually)
[00:23:39] <stevel> sorry to force everyone to do a fresh clone :(
[00:23:40] <movement> turned compression on
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[00:23:51] <movement> didn't think it would be /that/ slow though :/
[00:23:56] <twincest> move: it wasn't nearly that slow for me on a 400KB/s connection
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[00:24:28] <boyd> stevel: I don't think most people hold it against you
[00:24:34] <richlowe> I do.
[00:24:38] <richlowe> movement: punchin?
[00:24:55] <boyd> richlowe: curmudgeon
[00:25:00] *** richlowe was kicked by stevel (punk)
[00:25:05] <boyd> hehe
[00:25:08] *** richlowe has joined #opensolaris
[00:25:13] <richlowe> that'll teach me to forget he has ops now.
[00:25:13] <richlowe> ;)
[00:25:14] <stevel> okay seriously, that was the *only* time i've ever abused my op powers
[00:25:16] <boyd> Ha
[00:25:24] <stevel> but he totally asked for it
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[00:25:51] <boyd> stevel: It's a slippery slope... next you'll be kicking people for mentioning a plan to replace ZFS with a ksh93 implementation
[00:26:08] <stevel> lol
[00:26:18] <stevel> we should just rewrite all of ON in ksh93
[00:26:19] <dlg> ive had someone suggest zfs should be written in java
[00:26:33] <jmcp> msg boyd hiya, could you do a lookup on www.jmcp.homeunix.com for me please?
[00:26:52] <stevel> msg jmcp don't forget slash next time
[00:26:53] * jmcp is too damned tired
[00:27:00] <boyd> NXDOMAIN
[00:27:11] <jmcp> somebody rang my room @ 0520 localtime
[00:27:14] <boyd> Oh.. wait
[00:27:16] <jmcp> boyd: bugger
[00:27:25] <benh6> James, G'Day! How's China?
[00:27:27] <jmcp> how bout without the www?
[00:27:28] <boyd> I was too fast with copy and paste
[00:27:31] <jmcp> benh6: interesting!
[00:27:36] <boyd> www.jmcp.homeunix.com.  43200   IN      CNAME   jmcp.homeunix.com.
[00:27:45] <toblun> dwc-: hehe, it was kinda simple. Just pressed the ESC and ENT key while power on. =)
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[00:28:02] <boyd> jmcp: How'd ya do subdomains?
[00:28:10] <stevel> simple is not always equal to intuitive
[00:28:13] <boyd> well CNAMEs at least
[00:28:14] <jmcp> boyd: dyndns.org
[00:28:28] <boyd> That's what I use... I should should read the instructions :)
[00:28:30] <jmcp> which doesn't seem to be responding from here
[00:28:47] <boyd> jmcp: Great firewall of china?
[00:28:51] <jmcp> dunno
[00:29:02] <richlowe> boyd: well, jmcp is clearly unsavoury.
[00:29:02] <boyd> jmcp: lookup is fine from here
[00:29:07] <jmcp> on three consecutive days I've had three separate IPs reported for it
[00:29:16] <jmcp> richlowe: yeah, definitely
[00:29:19] <boyd> jmcp.homeunix.com.      14400   IN      A       59.167.244.18
[00:29:24] <jmcp> ta heaps
[00:29:36] <boyd> Well, it *is* dynamic :)
[00:29:46] <boyd> Are you supposed to have a static IP?
[00:30:15] <jmcp> yes
[00:30:18] <jmcp> very much so
[00:30:21] <jmcp> that one you just pasted
[00:30:44] <jmcp> can you get to www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog ok?
[00:31:05] <boyd> Maybe a little slow, but yeah, fine
[00:31:06] <jmcp> heck, just got another IP for that name
[00:31:10] <jmcp> entirely different too!
[00:31:21] <boyd> It's been coming through on planetsolaris and google reader fine too
[00:31:24] * stevel always thought it was spelled Tsinghua
[00:31:42] <boyd> jmcp: They're doing some kind of DNS faking to redirect through a proxy I'd say
[00:31:48] <stevel> i know that's not the current romanisation, but i didn't realise they'd updated
[00:31:57] <jmcp> boyd: yeah, and it's rooted
[00:32:04] <jmcp> stevel: some of them have, some haven't
[00:32:09] <jmcp> stevel: it's quite annoying
[00:32:12] <stevel> yeah
[00:32:27] <boyd> jmcp: It's because you canned Kayne West :)
[00:32:30] <stevel> jmcp: have you been to that electronics mall yet?
[00:32:33] <boyd> Knye
[00:32:34] <jmcp> boyd: muahahahaha
[00:32:38] <jmcp> stevel: nope
[00:32:44] <stevel> ask robs to take you
[00:32:45] <stevel> it's amazing
[00:32:46] <jmcp> been too busy with the office
[00:32:48] <jmcp> I will
[00:32:59] <jmcp> Hai lon ? or Wang fu jing St ?
[00:33:17] <stevel> hailon i think... it's been a few years since i've been. i remember roughly where it is (very near the Sun office)
[00:33:17] <boyd> stevel: Good? SimLim is as good as I get to most of the time these days
[00:33:28] <jamesd>  jmcp did you pick up a couple hundred pirated dvds for $20  yet?
[00:33:41] <jmcp> jamesd: nope ...been in the office almost all the time
[00:33:46] <dwc-> 15:28 < boyd> jmcp: How'd ya do subdomains?
[00:33:48] <jmcp> really busy there
[00:33:51] <dwc-> www.foo CNAME foo
[00:33:54] <stevel> boyd: it's awesome :) maybe 10 minutes from the Sun office so it's pretty convenient.  it was walking distance from my parents' apt
[00:34:07] <jmcp> stevel: yeah, hailon is only about 2 megablocks away from here
[00:34:08] <dwc-> or if you have DNS over foo.domain.com www CNAME @
[00:34:11] <boyd> dwc-: I know that, I was talking about on dundns.org
[00:34:14] <stevel> jmcp: yeah, that's it then
[00:34:14] <boyd> err dyndns
[00:35:02] <dwc-> if it updates off of $current_ip, via web, you may need to watch for transparent web proxies
[00:35:36] <jmcp> stevel: we've been walking to/from the office. it'sbeen great
[00:35:41] <boyd> dwc-: jmcp is updating from his home box and looking up from a client in china
[00:36:00] <Plaidrab> Best I ever got to do was walk from the Light Rail. Was too far. :)
[00:36:07] <stevel> rent a moped :) it's a great way to get around
[00:36:53] <boyd> I will check it out if they ever send me back to Beijing
[00:36:58] <jmcp> stevel: I'll leave the driving thing to the locals this time, I have to come back in late jan/ early feb, maybe then
[00:37:13] <stevel> moped'ing is fun though... not nearly as insane and exasperating as driving a car
[00:37:37] <boyd> jmcp: Cold then I expect
[00:37:42] <Plaidrab> Well, I usually took my bike on the Lightrail. But riding from my house to the station was a lot dangerous.
[00:38:02] * boyd used the subway... but unless you want to go somewhere on one of the two lines....
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[00:38:03] <jmcp> boyd: yeah, somewhat
[00:38:08] <Plaidrab> It was just easier to get on 101 and deal with people who don't know how to merge
[00:38:37] <regx> where do i get packages for OSOL?
[00:38:46] <jmcp> regx: from stevel
[00:38:55] <regx> whats that
[00:38:59] <boyd> www.blastwave.org www.sunfreeware.com
[00:39:10] <twincest> what's stevel?  we're still trying to work that out...
[00:39:11] <regx> would that have APACHE and BIND etc
[00:39:22] <boyd> regx: Both are in solaris
[00:39:29] <jmcp> regx: apache and bind are supplied as integrated packages with  Solaris, OpenSolaris
[00:39:34] <regx> oh
[00:39:41] <stevel> lol
[00:39:44] <regx> would that include within a native zone?
[00:39:46] <boyd> Yeah, jmcp put it more nicely
[00:39:47] * stevel pulls packages out of his arse and hands them to jmcp
[00:39:53] <boyd> Ewww
[00:40:02] <stevel> pkgadd that ;-)
[00:40:07] <dwc-> don't worry
[00:40:08] <boyd> hehe
[00:40:11] * LeftWing sprays the spray-on disinfectant everywhere.
[00:40:13] * dwc- calls isis and char siu to lick the packages
[00:40:20] <jmcp> stevel: I hope you washed your hands afterwards
[00:40:27] <stevel> dwc-: they're both incapacitated at the moment :(
[00:41:00] <stevel> dwc-: one with a sliipped disk in his back, and the other with a cone around her head
[00:41:07] <boyd> At this rate we'll need anti-virus sw for solaris
[00:41:16] <dwc-> oh no...
[00:41:24] <twincest> or anti-#opensolaris software
[00:41:28] <boyd> or anti-bacterial at least
[00:41:29] <Plaidrab> *chuckle*
[00:41:53] * jmcp heads off for breakfast
[00:42:10] <stevel> hopefully not eating the packages
[00:42:25] <boyd> hehe
[00:42:43] <boyd> stevel: So should I wash this clone when it finishes?
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[00:43:18] <stevel> no, it's pure :) (better be after all that regeneration crap i had to go through)
[00:43:31] <richlowe> boyd: nah, just wait for him to have to regen it again :)
[00:43:34] <richlowe> they're self-cleaning!
[00:43:43] <boyd> Hehe ... who's bitter
[00:44:03] <richlowe> I dunno, who's bitter?
[00:44:34] <boyd> You're just pretending not to be so you don't get kicked agaiin
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[00:45:29] * myrkraverk is having fun going through the device driver tutorial
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[00:51:33] <myrkraverk> a metaquestion: should I not know something about ethernetworking when attempting to write/port a NIC driver?
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[00:52:25] <g4lt-mordant> myrkraverk, tehy don't for linsux, so not really ;P
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[00:52:40] <myrkraverk> g4lt-mordant: ;)
[00:53:06] <Richthofen> Hello all.
[00:53:21] <myrkraverk> g4lt-mordant: but, in case I'm an anal-retentive bastard, and want to really know what I'm doing, would you know about any resources?
[00:53:54] <g4lt-mordant> myrkraverk, yeah, the net/2 sources
[00:54:01] <myrkraverk> (or someone else for that matter)
[00:54:10] <myrkraverk> the net/2 sources? googling...
[00:54:27] <bobbyz> Is there a repository where I can check out some of the opensolaris source from a certain date?  (Sometime around 20050818) ?  I read about the mercurial repository but apparently it isn't open for anonymous access
[00:54:47] <richlowe> it should be, now.
[00:55:19] <bobbyz> ok, I'll check that out then
[00:55:28] <myrkraverk> g4lt-mordant: the most promising google hit is The Net 2.0 on IMDB ;/
[00:55:36] <Richthofen> I'm having issues installing Nexenta Alpha 6...  it hangs if I have the 4 port Syba SATA (Silicon Image 3114) card installed and have all 4 drives connected.
[00:56:04] <g4lt-mordant> myrkraverk, the original BSD sources for the net/2 tapes
[00:56:55] <Richthofen> I can get to the install screen with no Sata card, or sata card with 0 or 1 drive connected....  configure devices hangs if I have 2+ drives connected to the card... I have IDE bios installed on the card, no RAID bios.
[00:57:14] <g4lt-mordant> and in all actuality, the NIC driver has little to do with the tcp stack
[00:58:41] <myrkraverk> g4lt-mordant: yes, I know that, but almost all NIC drivers have stuff about auto-negotiation of duplex, speed, tx this and rx that - and I'd like to know what all that shit is about ;)
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[01:01:44] <boyd> myrkraverk: As a starting point wikipedia is often quite helpful
[01:02:15] <myrkraverk> boyd: it is?
[01:02:32] <boyd> for initial terminology, sure
[01:02:41] <myrkraverk> boyd: well, I'll try to keep that in mind tomorrow, I'm too tired to actually read anything now ;/
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[01:03:03] <boyd> ... except the device driver tutorial :)
[01:03:08] <boyd> Does anyone know if it's possible for me to jumpstart an amd64 box that uses a nic that requires a third-party driver
[01:03:09] <myrkraverk> ;)
[01:03:36] <myrkraverk> boyd: why do you need to jump start it? (I installed from CDs)
[01:03:58] <boyd> I don't need to, I want to to allow easy unattended installs
[01:04:03] <myrkraverk> ah
[01:04:42] <richlowe> boyd: drop the driver etc into the miniroot and see what happens? :)
[01:05:04] <boyd> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking but I thought I'd ask if anyone had experience
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[01:06:26] * myrkraverk wonders why vendors will happily gpl the linux driver, but distribute all other system drivers with heavy duty you're-not-allowed-to-do-anything-with-this-device eulas? (yes, this is a metaquestion)
[01:07:06] <twincest> what package is /usr/sfw/bin/automake in?
[01:07:27] <boyd> pkgchk -l -p /usr/sfw/bin/automake
[01:07:30] <g4lt-mordant> myrkraverk, because they know that the linux driver will suck so badly no sane person will WANT to touch it soon if htey release it to the community
[01:07:37] <twincest> boyd: if i had the file i wouldn't be asking :)
[01:07:44] <boyd> Oh :)
[01:07:57] <Error_404> myrkraverk: they could also take theo's advice and just give a register map
[01:08:36] <myrkraverk> Error_404: or even write a symple tutorial: this is how to make a driver for our stuff :P
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[01:09:39] <lacaAFK> twincest: it doesn't exist in snv_52
[01:09:50] <twincest> odd, autoconf is shipped but not automake?
[01:10:28] <lacaAFK> install the JDS CBE for /opt/jdsbld/bin/automake (;
[01:10:31] <myrkraverk> Error_404: personally, I do hope that the variety of operating systems will multiply so only open-specced hw will survive the market :P
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[01:11:38] * myrkraverk does not believe in One System To Rule Them All [TM]
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[01:12:48] <myrkraverk> well, I'm off to sleep now; have fun all
[01:17:39] <boyd> hg clone ssh://hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate  603.03s user 120.16s system 39% cpu 30:19.68 total
[01:18:03] <jbk> that all? :)
[01:18:29] <boyd> It's a PIII 333Mhz with 128MB RAM
[01:19:05] <Error_404> i can't manage to get opensol to build ever
[01:19:27] <boyd> If I tried on that box I don't think it would build ever either :)
[01:19:48] <LeftWing> Remaining time required: All of it.  Please wait.
[01:19:56] <boyd> Hehe...
[01:20:03] <Error_404> my box is a sempron64... it ought to be able to handle it
[01:20:24] <twincest> CPU isn't really the issue, it's available memory/swap
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[01:22:25] <regx> hi
[01:22:58] <Error_404> dmake: Warning: Don't know how to make target `all'
[01:23:01] <Error_404> :-/
[01:23:14] <regx> interesting
[01:23:44] <boyd> 'Now Microsoft's Chief Rageaholic Steve Ballmer has explained the deal: Novell's $40 million "payment" is an admission of guilt. Every Linux user who doesn't use SUSE (the only "licensed" Linux) is a patent infringer. All Linuxes except the ones that Microsoft blesses are illegal.'
[01:24:06] <boyd> http://www.boingboing.net/2006/11/17/ballmer_linux_users_.html
[01:24:07] <Error_404> i think the build errors have something to do with perl
[01:25:44] <twincest> error: nightly gave you that dmake error?
[01:26:14] <richlowe> boyd: a reasonable chunk of the time is the 'hg up'.
[01:26:46] <boyd> richlowe: I'm sure it is... I keep this particular clone clean though
[01:26:53] <boyd> (i.e. no working copy)
[01:26:58] <regx> uh
[01:26:59] <richlowe> Oh.
[01:27:02] <regx> wtf
[01:27:08] <agliodbs> well, I guess I'm switching my linux machines to ubuntu next week
[01:27:12] <regx> why hasnt ballmer been assassinated yet?
[01:27:15] <richlowe> boyd: just intercontinental suck?
[01:27:29] <boyd> I guess so... my ADSL too :)
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[01:28:39] <twincest> sigh.. livevent really doesn't get much testing on solaris prior to releases
[01:29:35] <regx> does opensolaris plan to become more x86/64 compliant and more "usable" to more inexperienced users?
[01:29:48] <twincest> regx: what does more x86 compliant mean?
[01:30:31] <regx> well. like for raid support on more hardware.. im not personally haveing major issues.. im just curious ...
[01:30:56] <regx> though ive been a linux user for 6 years so i maybe imjust used to THAT way of doing things etc etc
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[01:31:18] <Error_404> the way where things stop working suddenly for no reason?
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[01:31:40] <regx> in linux you mean?
[01:31:46] <agliodbs> regx: ease-of-use is I think the top priority right now
[01:32:11] <regx> ive used it for 6 years.. and ive never had any thing like that :-/ ive had nothing but pleasureable exp. from linux.
[01:32:14] <agliodbs> regx: I started with Linux back in '98, and Mac OS in '90
[01:32:19] * boyd thinks that 'more "usable" to more inexperienced users' generally means 'more the same as what I already know'
[01:32:20] <regx> agliodbs, nice
[01:32:21] <agliodbs> they were pretty clunky back then
[01:32:34] <regx> boyd, lol i guess you could put it that way
[01:32:41] <agliodbs> regx: in 99 it generally took me a whole weekend to get a linux machine to install correctly
[01:32:54] <agliodbs> and that usually included replacing some parts with linux-compatible ones
[01:32:59] <regx> actually im wrong.. i remember RH7.1 being like.. not even worth installing
[01:33:02] <boyd> agliodbs: 98! Whippersnapper
[01:33:14] <agliodbs> boyd: what can I say?  I'm a reformed MS drone
[01:33:18] <g4lt-mordant> regx, why the hell would opensolaris do a damn fool thing like become more suckage compliant?
[01:33:21] <regx> agliodbs, exactly how i feel with opensolaris i guess.. shrug.. its only been a week
[01:33:49] <lplatypus> what's the story with sun's streaming server?  I'm gathering that it used to be a commercial product, and will soon be released on opensolaris.org, but is currently in limbo between these two states and hence unavailable?
[01:33:52] <agliodbs> regx: there's a lot of clunkness, since we're going from a commercial product which was supposed to only be run on supported hardware
[01:34:03] <regx> dont get me wrong i love solaris..
[01:34:21] <regx> agliodbs,ture
[01:34:22] <agliodbs> if you've not worked on drivers, I think you'll find the variety of device apis and protocols to be truly staggering
[01:34:23] <regx> *true
[01:34:56] <agliodbs> and I think we're progressing a lot faster than linux
[01:34:57] <regx> you guys dont seem to have any issues from just idling in IRC for a week so i think i just need to give it more learnage time
[01:35:09] <agliodbs> since we were able to learn from them ;-)
[01:35:39] <agliodbs> regx: are you using nevada or express?
[01:35:43] <regx> uhm
[01:35:51] <regx> nevada
[01:36:08] <regx> i ahve express also but those are on like 49387534 cd's
[01:36:13] <agliodbs> heh
[01:36:35] * regx jamming to TOOL
[01:36:37] <twincest> agliodbs: er, what is the difference between nevada and express?
[01:36:52] <regx> different builds or is there more to it?
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[01:38:01] <agliodbs> I meant as opposed to a solaris release
[01:38:04] <boyd> nevada is the name given to the current code in ON (OS/net). Soalris Express is a distro based on that
[01:38:12] <boyd> but adding other stuff
[01:38:19] <regx> ah
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[01:38:31] <regx> so would i be better off installing express
[01:40:45] <boyd> You can't actually "install" nevada since it's source. You can install express then build from source to update
[01:43:50] <twincest> hmm, the bundled bison generates code that g++ cannot compile :(
[01:44:37] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, you can install SXCR ;P
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[01:45:01] <boyd> ?
[01:45:20] <richlowe> nevada != opensolaris.
[01:45:21] <g4lt-mordant> when you install SXCR, it unames to NV_milestone
[01:45:30] <regx> really?
[01:45:32] <richlowe> opensolaris is 'just source'
[01:45:41] <g4lt-mordant> SunOS nightengale 5.11 snv_19 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60
[01:45:42] <richlowe> nevada is "What will be the next Solaris release"
[01:45:48] <richlowe> and once again, the terminology snafu becomes even worse...
[01:46:01] <g4lt-mordant> funny, looks like nevada build 19 to me, and I've never BFU'd this box
[01:46:03] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: uname actually tells you info about ON.
[01:46:12] <agliodbs> speaking of which, I really need to instally express on parallels on my mac
[01:46:12] <stevel> opensolaris is a collection of source code.  nevada is the codename for what will be the next major Solaris release.  Solaris Express & Solaris Express Community Release are Sun's distributions of OpenSolaris, and are the official release trains for Nevada
[01:46:17] <richlowe> It gives you the value of VERSION when ON was built.
[01:46:21] <stevel> but richlowe basically said all that while i was typing that :)
[01:46:24] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: not about (e.g.) JDS or JRE
[01:46:26] <richlowe> but the snv_# refers to the Nevada build.
[01:48:18] <boyd> Yeah, I miscommunicated my thoughts
[01:49:03] <agliodbs> has anyone tried to do that from the CDs?
[01:49:41] <boyd> Do what?
[01:49:50] <stevel> (16:44:48) agliodbs: speaking of which, I really need to instally express on parallels on my mac
[01:50:06] <boyd> I have done it from DVD isos
[01:50:37] <stevel> heading home. may be back online later.
[01:50:39] <stevel> adios
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[01:52:11] <gisburn> !seen alanc
[01:52:13] <Drone> alanc is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Fri 17 Nov 2006 22:02 GMT, saying 'especially if you use SLI/Crossfire to link multiple cards'.
[01:52:23] <gisburn> alanc: ping
[01:52:42] <alanc> gisburn: pong
[01:52:44] <Error_404> hmm... it appears the cheapest i can get a v100 for is ~ 100$
[01:53:16] <Error_404> 'course only as a netra X1, because people on ebay look up "Sun Fire", not "netra"
[01:53:20] * gisburn realises that alanc is not registered to nickserv... ;-(
[01:54:27] <alanc> one of these days I'll fix my xchat menu items that change my nick to do that too
[01:55:53] <boyd> Error_404: Aren't you in Aus?
[01:56:02] <Error_404> canada
[01:56:07] <agliodbs> boyd: anything special I need to do before I get to x.conf?
[01:56:21] <boyd> Ah.. nearly the same dollar amount but greater range
[01:56:26] <Error_404> close, but the exact opposite end of the world
[01:56:37] <boyd> agliodbs: I did a text install and fixed X later
[01:56:46] <agliodbs> boyd: yeah, I figured
[01:56:57] <agliodbs> boyd: you figure out how to share files with MacOS?
[01:56:58] <Error_404> CAD's worth $1.12AUD
[01:56:59] <boyd> agliodbs: I can send you an xorg.conf that works at native res for my MBP 17"
[01:57:13] <boyd> agliodbs: I use scp :) Oh, and NFS occasionally
[01:57:19] <tomww> twincest: about "bison". Isn't it an option for you to use the Common Build Environment givong you bison 2.3 instead of 1.8.75 (or so)
[01:57:35] <agliodbs> boyd: hmmm ... I have a 13", so I don't think that'll help.  Thanks though
[01:57:56] <agliodbs> boyd: what po's me is that I spent 4 hours figuring out the xorg.conf on my old laptop
[01:58:01] <agliodbs> and then it got stolen
[01:58:07] <boyd> agliodbs: bastards
[01:58:28] <boyd> They should have a kill-chip feature
[01:58:37] <agliodbs> basically, I want the solaris VM to NFS mount my home dir whenever it starts up
[01:59:07] <boyd> I think that could work... you most work would be on the Mac end to set up the nfs server
[01:59:10] <agliodbs> boyd: the potential for malfunction with that is truly frightening
[01:59:11] * tomww thinks, agliodbs qould prefer having his yorg.conf stonlen instead of the laptop ... sorry
[01:59:21] <agliodbs> tomww: yes
[01:59:33] <boyd> agliodbs: True...
[02:00:05] <tomww> yorg.conf is nice. my keybord is a qwertz :-)
[02:00:06] <boyd> If they had universal "must have authentication to power on" then there would be no market for stolen lappys
[02:00:22] <alanc> one of the higher ups has threatened to buy a MacBook and give it to the X team so we can make Xorg autodetect better under parallels, but hasn't yet
[02:00:43] <regx> lmao
[02:00:44] <boyd> Hehe... I can lend a VM of it's a help
[02:00:52] <regx> id pay to see that happen
[02:01:01] <agliodbs> boyd: yeah.  I can probably get help from the darwin guys
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[02:01:27] <agliodbs> boyd: I think IBM did something like that, laptops that require a thumbprint to power on
[02:01:35] <regx> alanc, who is this higher up? and from waht company?
[02:02:01] <agliodbs> boyd: am I better off trying to install KDE on Express, or booting Ubuntu under parallels as well?
[02:02:08] <alanc> one of the people higher up the org chart from our group at Sun
[02:02:18] <regx> alanc, nice
[02:02:23] <regx> id pay to see that happen
[02:02:58] <regx> why dont they do that already?
[02:03:16] <boyd> agliodbs: I dunno... kde on express would be easy with blastwave. Ubuntu seems ok... Nexenta seems to get borked on second boot for me... but I didn't try for long
[02:03:24] <alanc> because he just got a macbook himself and found out first hand how hard it is to get right
[02:03:31] <agliodbs> heh
[02:03:38] <agliodbs> alanc: even better
[02:03:44] <regx> hey is nexenta any good though?
[02:03:49] <boyd> He could just lend his to the team
[02:03:50] <agliodbs> try to get Solaris on Parallels to support a projector
[02:04:06] <alanc> separate a VP from his laptop?   never...
[02:04:07] <agliodbs> boyd: oh, I was thinking ubuntu linux
[02:04:09] <boyd> regx: Depends what you're after... seems quite nice to me
[02:04:16] <agliodbs> KDE on mac is a bit flaky
[02:04:20] <regx> boyd, mainly multimedia
[02:04:23] <tomww> alanc: :-)
[02:04:29] <boyd> agliodbs: Ubunto came up fine for me on Parallels IIRC
[02:04:57] <boyd> I have no idea why anyone would run KDE on a mac natively
[02:04:57] <alanc> agliodbs: I'll pass that on to stuart, since he'll be working on it as part of his Xorg-config-improvement work
[02:05:11] <agliodbs> boyd: becuase I like KDE
[02:05:30] <agliodbs> alanc: I got it to work before my laptop was stolen
[02:05:34] <regx> how many of you guys in here are dev for OSOL/SOL ?
[02:05:41] <agliodbs> alanc: but I had to reboot the parallels VM to switch
[02:06:11] <boyd> regx: Dev yes.. committed no :)
[02:06:20] <regx> lol what
[02:06:30] <boyd> I develop, but no commits yet
[02:06:43] <regx> ah
[02:07:17] <regx> so am i better off install EXPRESS or NEVADA?  im wanting to learn solaris in a server enviro
[02:07:23] <twincest> express *is* nevada
[02:07:31] <regx> oh
[02:07:36] <regx> then never mind :)
[02:07:58] <alanc> I work on X for Solaris
[02:07:59] <agliodbs> regx: sorry to confuse you. when I asked "express or nevada" I meant "express/nevada"
[02:08:12] <regx> oh np man
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[02:08:47] <regx> 73% done ;)
[02:09:15] <regx> right now im doing a "normal" or "default " install.. would a custom install be more ideal for server enviro?
[02:09:19] <tomww> 27% left to paradise (okay, ...)
[02:10:16] <regx> ive got express on my work computer 3ghz intel P4 with HT JK DL EPJ SH
[02:10:27] <regx> and it runs really nice from what i can tell
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[02:10:40] <boyd> Hmm... if only I had a way to get a Sunray 150 650km I could have one cheap
[02:10:57] <agliodbs> alanc: what I really want to know is, why does every department at Sun have its own completely separate twiki?
[02:11:12] <agliodbs> boyd: carry-on?
[02:11:24] <boyd> If I have to fly to get it it's not cheap anymore :)
[02:11:28] <alanc> because we all set them up on our own before we found out about each other
[02:11:47] <regx> what would be the equivelent to a 2-3ghz 2gb ram x86 box in SUN hardware?
[02:12:02] <regx> running native SOL
[02:12:15] <boyd> U20?
[02:12:16] <agliodbs> boyd: where is it?
[02:12:21] <boyd> Canberra
[02:12:28] <alanc> sounds like a low-end Sun AMD64 box
[02:12:29] <regx> where can i find a box like that
[02:12:47] <boyd> I think Sun might have one :)
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[02:12:57] <regx> well im interested in playing with that equivelnt of box in SPARC form
[02:13:23] <agliodbs> regx: niagara?
[02:13:36] <boyd> SPARC.... U25? U45?
[02:13:42] <regx> im completly newb to SUN so i dont know what that means :-/
[02:13:47] <regx> im assuming its a box
[02:14:34] <boyd> regx: niagara is the code name for the UltraSPARC T1. Used in the T1000 and T2000 boxes.
[02:14:52] <regx> arnt thos like ultra rediculously awsome boxes
[02:15:03] <boyd> regx: http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra25/ http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra45/ are workstations
[02:15:07] <twincest> that depends what you're doing with them
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[02:15:23] <regx> omg..
[02:15:36] <regx> omg.....
[02:15:38] <regx> that is hott
[02:16:02] <boyd> Niagara is here: http://www.sun.com/servers/index.jsp?cat=CoolThreads%20Servers&tab=3&subcat=UltraSPARC%20T1
[02:16:07] <regx> i should drop this linux shit and start learning to dev for SUN
[02:16:30] <Gman> regx, www.opensolaris.org is a good start :)
[02:16:38] <boyd> Hi Gman
[02:16:43] <Gman> hey boyd
[02:16:50] <regx> i suck at math so i guess i could never code :(
[02:17:00] <boyd> That's what the machine is for :)
[02:17:19] <regx> ?
[02:17:41] <boyd> To do the math :)
[02:17:49] <regx> ah
[02:17:52] <boyd> well... the arithmetic anyway :)
[02:18:07] <regx> i wonder how difficult it would be to learn
[02:18:16] <Error_404> what, to code?
[02:18:20] <regx> ya
[02:18:21] <regx> and learn it
[02:18:25] <vertigo_> regx: its not difficult but it takes a bit of patience and time to learn
[02:18:31] <regx> like to become decent on SUN equip
[02:18:47] * regx ponders
[02:18:56] <Error_404> it's farily easy to learn to code if you realize early on that you're just giving the computer instructions
[02:19:07] <regx> well ive coded before
[02:19:20] <boyd> If you choose a portable technology then your skills can be quite.... portable :)
[02:19:31] <boyd> regx: What environment?
[02:19:32] <regx> i was far too niave in computers to understand it on the level that i feel im at now
[02:19:56] <regx> boyd, C/C++ windows env :-/
[02:20:42] <boyd> Well, C and C++ as *languages* are pretty portable. The environment they run in is less so.
[02:20:52] <regx> hmmmmmm
[02:21:04] <regx> id need a sparc though
[02:21:13] <regx> all i have is an ultra sparc 2
[02:21:13] <vertigo_> why?
[02:21:19] <boyd> Nah... you can do everything on X86
[02:21:25] <tomww> yes
[02:21:30] <boyd> (except SPARC assembly)
[02:21:32] <regx> it would be completly portable to sparc?
[02:21:42] <boyd> except SPARC assembly :)
[02:21:43] <regx> i wanna dev on a real sparc
[02:21:52] <boyd> and assumptions as to endianness
[02:21:55] <tomww> think: wrtie one code, compile it on x86 or sparc under solaris, if made right even on other *nixes or linuxes
[02:22:00] <Error_404> regx: for the most part... ntoh() is your friend
[02:22:06] <regx> hmmmmmm
[02:22:17] <boyd> well, if you want to dev on a sparc then I guess youll need a sparc :) But there's no real reason to.
[02:22:25] <regx> i really wanna have a LOOKING GLASS desktop
[02:22:56] <boyd> I believe that many of the Sun engineers dev on x86 laptops etc
[02:23:31] <tomww> except laca, his poor laptop went to heaven (or so)
[02:23:36] <regx> i dont get that though.. do they just recompile the exact same code with sparc stuff?
[02:23:43] <Error_404> yep
[02:23:48] <tomww> if written portable, yes
[02:23:54] <regx> hmmm
[02:23:57] <Error_404> Ansi C is ansi C, posix is posix
[02:24:12] <tomww> Solaris on X86 and Solaris on Sparc share *most* of the same code
[02:24:13] <regx> is it any different performance and security wise to code portable vs nonportable?
[02:24:58] <Error_404> well you could write nonportable code w/ assembly that'll probably be faster
[02:25:25] <Error_404> but in pure C, unlikely
[02:25:28] <regx> basically i just wanna know if i code an app or what have you on a x86 that it would be no extra effort to move it to sparc
[02:25:35] <twincest> boyd: re sparc assembly: OpenVMS Alpha can compile OpenVMS VAX code verbatim, including assembler - they wrote a translator to Alpha asm :)
[02:25:54] <agliodbs> regx: if you're writing userland apps, right
[02:25:57] <Error_404> regx: it should be very little to no work
[02:26:05] <regx> awsome
[02:26:20] <alanc> regx: if you want a Looking Glass desktop, then you'll need x86, since it doesn't run on SPARC yet
[02:26:21] <tomww> welcome in *nix-land, regx :-)
[02:26:22] <agliodbs> I think the solaris-sparc code patch for PostgreSQL was 6 lines
[02:26:36] <agliodbs> Looking Glass?
[02:26:37] <regx> alanc, oh really.....
[02:26:40] <tomww> thats much :-)
[02:26:54] <regx> alanc, how intensive is looking glass?
[02:27:12] <alanc> yep - it requires extensions found in Xorg, which is used on x86, but not in Xsun, which is still used on SPARC because the SPARC drivers are still being ported to Xorg
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[02:27:45] <regx> so basically i could drop this ARch linux desktop and pick up a solaris box with looking glass?
[02:27:47] <alanc> not sure - haven't run it much myself - it's pretty much a research project still
[02:27:56] <tomww> my timezone alows me to go to bed now, good night all :-)
[02:28:30] <boyd> regx: You may be able to use the same hardware
[02:28:36] <agliodbs> what's looking glass?
[02:28:41] <regx> boyd, i have an extra 250gb :)
[02:28:48] <boyd> Well, then.
[02:28:51] <boyd> agliodbs: http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/
[02:28:57] <regx> ok so ... what do i do to get looking glass lol
[02:29:00] <Gman> "Given a Preliminary Go from QA, Vermillion build 53 was been
[02:29:01] <Gman> successfully delivered
[02:29:01] <Gman> to Solaris WOS build 53(snv_53) nightly on Wednesday."
[02:29:06] <Gman> woohooo, gnome 2.16 hits solaris nevada :)
[02:29:07] <alanc> agliodbs: the 3D desktop Jonathan Schwartz likes to demo
[02:29:19] <boyd> Woohoo! Gman! You tha man!
[02:29:23] <vertigo_> gman: nice!
[02:29:33] <twincest> gman: "was been"? :)
[02:29:38] <Gman> those are the rocking RE dudes
[02:29:43] <alanc> Gman: oh, I probably should have also mailed today that we integrated the nvidia drivers into nv_53 too
[02:29:44] <Gman> twincest, :)
[02:29:53] <Error_404> oh that Schwartz & his flashy 3d desktop
[02:29:54] <boyd> alanc: Yahooooooo!
[02:30:03] <boyd> (except they still suck on my hw)
[02:30:25] <alanc> since the switch to the OS installer to use Xorg instead of Xsun during the install integrated to nv_53 yesterday, which was the last holdup to integrating them
[02:30:26] <agliodbs> cool beans
[02:30:29] <regx> ok so i can get LG from installing niagara?
[02:30:34] <agliodbs> looks unlikely to work in a VM though
[02:30:43] <boyd> Gman: Not raining on a parade or anything but is TJDS in that
[02:30:45] <boyd> ?
[02:30:50] <Gman> boyd, yes
[02:30:55] <boyd> regx: niagara is sparc
[02:30:59] <boyd> Gman: Cool
[02:31:03] <alanc> and the gnome system tools too, right?
[02:31:19] <Gman> yep
[02:31:20] <regx> boyd, what would i have to install then? express?
[02:31:21] <Gman> should be
[02:31:31] <twincest> regx: Niagara is a CPU, Solaris Express is an OS
[02:31:36] <boyd> regx: I mean that Niagara is SPARC hardware.
[02:31:40] <regx> twincest, :( wow
[02:31:41] <boyd> regx: umm...
[02:31:42] <edp> regx, you should probaby start with solaris express community release
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[02:32:10] <regx> i feel like i did back in the first week of linux lol :)
[02:32:14] <comay> alanc: are these drivers based on the 9629 revision?
[02:32:15] <regx> knowing nothing lol
[02:32:15] <agliodbs> nice to see someone who isn't just aping MS or Apple
[02:32:15] <boyd> There are LG download links for Linux and windows !
[02:32:24] <twincest> regx: i think you're confusing niagara and nevada
[02:32:31] <regx> twincest, nah im straight now
[02:32:37] <alanc> comay: pkginfo says VERSION=1.0.9629,REV=2006.11.01.20.02
[02:32:44] <boyd> twincest: ... and nebraska
[02:32:51] <twincest> boyd: good album
[02:33:07] <comay> alanc: the unbundled ones have their dependencies backwards, i think
[02:33:08] <boyd> ... and north dakota
[02:33:13] <comay> the root package depends on the usr package
[02:33:23] <alanc> I thought john said that was fixed in 9629
[02:33:47] <alanc> nope, looks like it wasn't yet
[02:33:58] <comay> i think that will cause an issue for diskless clients
[02:34:07] <boyd> regx:
[02:34:10] <comay> expect a bug to be filed by mary :)
[02:34:12] <boyd> regx: ". We are still in the early development process. There is no officially supported trial version available for users. However software developers can download the early development version and participate in the open source development"
[02:34:23] <alanc> I'll dup it to the one already filed by you 8-)
[02:34:38] <comay> lol
[02:34:42] <regx> boyd, so i cant just install LG ?
[02:35:04] <boyd> regx: I don't know... sounds like there is a version you can get.. https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/
[02:35:17] <boyd> (since there are download links there)
[02:35:26] <alanc> maybe I'll just put si-bugs on the cc to save mary the trouble
[02:36:45] <alanc> hmm, I thought I saw a bug for that, but I only see comments in other bugs, not one just for that, when I search
[02:37:55] <alanc> oh, found it - 6405016 nvidia packages have their dependencies backwards
[02:38:12] <regx> wow you can install it on windows too
[02:38:47] <boyd> I thought I said that before :)
[02:39:23] <comay> yup, that's the one
[02:39:24] <regx> sorry im trying to do lotsa stuff at once lol
[02:41:04] <Error_404> regx: how 'bout this... step 1: get more comfortable with solaris
[02:41:06] <Error_404> :)
[02:41:09] <Error_404> then worry about the rest
[02:41:28] <regx> ya i know :)
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[02:50:50] <edp> is the privsnv brand for zones around anymore?
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[02:56:32] <boyd> edp: I haven't heard for a while. Worked nearly unchanged when I last tried
[02:57:39] <edp> i see many examples using it from a year ago or so, but the '-B privsnv' syntax has been removed and replaced with 'set brand=' in zonecfg
[02:58:16] <edp> but it complains about the privsnv brand when you try to use it saying it doesn't exist
[02:58:35] <edp> # ls /usr/lib/brand rnlx      native
[02:58:44] <regx> how do i add a native solaris zone in brand z??? i forgot
[02:59:13] <edp> regx, use zonecfg... there are plenty of nice tutorials out there if you search for them
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[03:02:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[03:03:00] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 52 | ON build: 52 | ON nightly: 20061113"
[03:03:19] <stevel> sxcr 52 dvd: http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b52-DVD-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try
[03:03:26] <stevel> sxcr 52 cd: http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b52-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try
[03:08:15] <boyd> Thanks stevel
[03:08:46] <boyd> But after gman's announcement I'll be waiting for b53 :)
[03:08:55] <stevel> what was gman's announcement?
[03:08:58] <stevel> ah. gnome 2.16?
[03:09:18] <boyd> Yeah
[03:09:29] <stevel> you could always glom the packages from the JDS project :)
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[03:09:37] <stevel> that's what i did, they work like a treat
[03:09:41] <boyd> True...
[03:09:51] <stevel> but i am looking forward to snv_53 too...
[03:09:54] * boyd might well do that during the week
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[03:25:52] <richlowe> I'm tempted just because of the apparent drag-n-crash fix.
[03:31:34] * boyd rarely drags anything... except on the mac whree I do it all the time.. funny
[03:31:49] <Doc> are you saying macs are a drag?
[03:31:56] <boyd> :P
[03:32:14] <richlowe> boyd: me too, but it turns out I do it accidentally more often than I realized.
[03:32:22] <boyd> Ah
[03:32:23] <richlowe> you notice these things when doing so kills nautilus :)
[03:32:26] <boyd> Yeah
[03:32:47] <boyd> Ive been (un)fortunate enough to be using only 2.6 recently
[03:32:55] <twincest> solaris 2.6? :)
[03:33:04] <boyd> Phew! no!
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[03:35:42] <regx> ok
[03:35:53] <regx> i cannot for the life of me remember how to install a native zone
[03:36:21] <Doc> you need to use the "rtfm" command
[03:37:15] <edp> regx, http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/solaris_zones.html
[03:37:31] <regx> thanks
[03:37:52] <twincest> hmm, studio CC gives really helpful error sometimes
[03:38:04] <twincest> "../include/flalloc.h", line 26: Error: T is not a structure type. << would be nice if it said what type T was
[03:38:41] <Error_404> heh
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[04:09:59] <twincest> yay, another studio bug (although this one has apparently been fixed, just not in the patchset ON wants...)
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[04:22:11] <Error_404> hmm... anyone know about SRSS?
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[04:23:22] <hile_> What do you want to know, 404?
[04:23:52] <Error_404> evidently you can have windows sessions through some hackery that i don't understand
[04:24:18] <hile_> can't help you there
[04:24:23] <Error_404> wondering if i throw a mac mini in to the mix if you can have OSX sessions somehow
[04:24:36] <hile_> when i did that, i just put an option on dtlogin to rdesktop to a winbox after you logged in
[04:24:51] <Error_404> oh, i don't need to know how to do it, just if it can be done
[04:25:19] <hile_> might maybe be able to do so with tarantella or soemthing?
[04:25:29] <Error_404> *shrug*
[04:25:31] <boyd> You could use VNC to the mac
[04:25:38] <LeftWing> Tarantella (SGD) is pretty good.
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[04:25:50] <boyd> since macos X has a vnc server built in
[04:25:58] <LeftWing> Ah true
[04:26:36] <Error_404> there's also a remote desktop server
[04:26:47] <Error_404> but i dunno if that's the same thing SRSS uses
[04:27:25] <LeftWing> SRSS can run a Terminal Services client
[04:27:39] <LeftWing> or anything, really, if you script it to
[04:29:25] <hile_> oh?
[04:29:26] <eboutilier> Yes, Tarentella. There are some good blog posts about it...
[04:29:27] <hile_>  do tell
[04:29:37] <eboutilier> http://blogs.sun.com/lou/entry/a_cool_demo_and_free
[04:29:50] <eboutilier> http://blogs.sun.com/sunraybruce/
[04:30:03] <eboutilier> http://blogs.sun.com/ThinkThin/entry/why_is_sun_releasing_a
[04:30:49] <eboutilier> It's now called Secure Global Desktop
[04:31:04] <eboutilier> Marketing strikes again. :-/
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[04:35:41] <Error_404> i see... apple remote desktop uses vnc, evidently
[04:37:57] <Error_404> good to know
[04:39:44] <Error_404> i don't understand why the v100 on ebay is so much more expensive than the netra x1, it's the exact same thing
[04:40:33] <jbk> people don't know better?
[04:40:44] <Error_404> i guess yeah
[04:40:59] <Error_404> It's a nice system for the price
[04:42:30] <Error_404> but I'm also not very picky... i'd be ecstatic with a T1 105
[04:44:13] <edp> how well does secure global desktop work with windows apps/
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[04:47:15] <jamesd_> Error_404, typically the netra's are more money because  rackmount gear usually sell at a premium.
[04:47:25] <jbk> there's a live demo where you can access and mess with office
[04:47:30] <jbk> if that's any indication
[04:47:41] <jbk> didn't seem to bad over broadband either
[04:48:07] <Error_404> jamesd_, On ebay anyways, the v100  is about twice the price as the netra x1... the systems are identical
[04:48:44] <Error_404> both PCI/ATA 1U machines at 360 or 440mhz  IIe
[04:48:59] <jamesd_> Error_404, you just found an idiot seller with out a clue, there was for a long time someone selling  ipx's for $50 and  u2 2x400  for $1700...
[04:51:16] <Error_404> i should buy a 105...
[04:51:27] <Error_404> better than my 1x295mhz ultra2
[04:53:03] <jamesd_> is the 105 a single cpu 440mhz?
[04:53:19] <Error_404> yeah
[04:53:48] <jamesd_> don't under estimate the power and speed of SMP...  things just work so much better in solaris when SMP is involved.
[04:54:27] <jamesd_> especially if you have  2GB of ram in the u2.
[04:54:52] <LeftWing> RAM is awesome.
[04:55:05] <Error_404> this U2 is dying anyways, i don't really want to dump more cash in to it if I can replace it
[04:55:11] <Error_404> it's got a bad ram socket i think
[04:55:50] <jamesd_> my u2 2x296 2GB ram is faster doing  interactive stuff than a   blade 1500 IIIi 1.05ghz with 512MB ram
[04:55:55] <Error_404> FMD pukes errors about a bad stick of ram in socket 5 regardless how i shuffle things around, then the machine just shuts off
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[04:57:10] <jamesd_> remove that bank of ram... or work on  FMA to get it to block that socket and look on ebay for a new barebones u2 or perhaps just a mother board,  or add a few more dollars and get a u60.
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[04:59:06] <boyd> If it's always that bank it sounds like the socket
[05:02:01] <Error_404> yeah, that's what i figgured
[05:02:06] <Error_404> that or the motherboard
[05:05:54] <Error_404> I also have this strange desire to get rack kit, so *shrug*
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[05:06:35] <regx> uh
[05:06:59] <regx> used zlogin to login to my zone.. but when i try to change root's passwd.. it says permision denied... ID shows im root....
[05:07:23] <boyd> regx: I suspect you havent completed zone initialisation
[05:07:46] <boyd> return to the global zone
[05:07:51] <boyd> then zlogin -C myzone
[05:07:54] <boyd> press enter
[05:08:04] <boyd> I think you'll be asked some questions
[05:08:13] <regx> oops
[05:08:16] <regx> yep i forgot
[05:08:19] <regx> thanks man
[05:08:32] * boyd handles SIGCHLD
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[05:18:23] <Gr|ffous> jamesd_, that's a great writeup on M$/Linux IP on your blog, thanks
[05:18:51] <jamesd_> thanks ... just hope i don't have too many flames over it...
[05:19:38] <Gr|ffous> It's an interesting point, about all that you left out was Apple. How do they fit into all this?
[05:21:23] <jamesd_> Gr|ffous, i think apple has an agreement with microsoft as a result of past lawsuit.. it seems pretty standard to create one.
[05:22:14] <Gr|ffous> ah, that would make sense I guess
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[05:24:40] <boyd> jamesd_: Did you mean to misspell the heading?
[05:25:23] <jamesd_> no.. my word processor said it was correct...
[05:26:24] <jamesd_> okay.. fixed..
[05:32:28] <scott_> jamesd - I've been trying to understand the MS/Linux IP thing.. could you pass me an url to your blog?
[05:33:34] <jamesd_> uadmin.blogspot.com
[05:33:39] <scott_> thx
[05:33:56] <edp> i like the tv on there
[05:35:26] <scott_> jamesd - I've been reading your blog for about a year... cool
[05:35:35] <Error_404> heh
[05:35:50] <Error_404> why do you use blogspot anyways?
[05:36:00] <Error_404> why not buy a domain, they're like $8/year
[05:36:24] <jamesd_> yeah there must be a few people that read it, i get over 500 page hits a day except for weekends it drops a bit.
[05:36:41] <jamesd_> Error_404, because its free..  and i have a domain...  unixconsult.org
[05:36:48] <Error_404> fair enough
[05:37:13] <jamesd_> and i have a readeship...  and all those readers won't  re-bookmark it so i'm kinda stuck
[05:38:36] <jamesd_> i use  blogger because they get to deal with the headaches if i get  digg'd or /.'d  etc.. i just have to create content and hype it and hope for the best.
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[06:50:10] <Gr|ffous> how do the zfs COW symantics interact with fragmentation?
[06:51:12] <Gr|ffous> Using azureus, I have an option for preallocating files to reduce fragmentation overhead/performance hits. I enabled this, but I have to say that my performance of moving completed torrents is terrible, which lead me on to wondering about how zfs is handling this
[06:55:30] <jamesd_> well you can start by disabling it if you are using ZFS, because it doesn't accomplish anything.
[06:56:45] <jbk> but also, the algorithm zfs uses to choose blocks is configurable (though only one option exists today), but it sounds like the plan is in the future to have some way to be able to switch algorithms based on the workload
[06:57:52] <jbk> (i happened to ask bill moore that question at lisa last year :P)
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[07:19:28] <lloy0076> *hmmm*
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[08:15:09] <delewis> heh, filesync is quite nice.
[08:15:23] <delewis> it's a wonder this command isn't publicized as much as it should be.
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[08:37:53] <noyb> delewis: is there something in filesync that rsync can't do?
[08:39:03] <delewis> noyb: I haven't really used rsync a whole lot, as I've never really needed to until now (synchronizing two of my fileservers), but filesync does ship with Solaris, though.
[08:39:33] <delewis> I would imagine both accomplish the same, but filesync has been in Solaris since 8, I would guess.
[08:41:54] <noyb> well 'native' is good, but I've been using rsync for about 8 years.  I'll read the manual and see what the transport is.
[08:41:59] <Error_404> feh... "backing up data"
[08:42:13] <Error_404> backups are for sissies... real men just mirror the drives
[08:42:32] <delewis> noyb: there isn't a transport. It synchronizes local filesystems, which means you have to use NFS for exports.
[08:42:49] <delewis> that's not a problem for me, because both of these fileservers are local
[08:43:37] <delewis> Error_404: it's not really backing up. I've been in the process of setting up a fileserver, and initially I copied the data from the old one to the new one, but now I would like to synchronize the new one to the old one, as changes have occurred.
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[08:45:56] <Error_404> well, i was being facetious
[08:51:58] <delewis> shipping JSE 1.6 in Solaris Express and making it the default was *not* a good idea.
[08:52:11] <delewis> the Sun Studio installer fails, as well almost every other Sun installer that uses Java.
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[08:54:36] <boyd> Write once run anywhere, huh?
[08:54:45] <delewis> not quite. :-)
[08:55:01] <trygvis> write once, crash everywhere :)
[08:55:04] <delewis> though, to be fair 1.6 is still an rc
[08:55:17] <delewis> that still doesn't answer why it was made the default JRE in Solaris Express
[08:56:34] <delewis> I spent quite awhile figuring out what was making the Sun Studio installer come to a grinding halt and generating an exception
[08:56:53] <delewis> and sure enough, switching make to JRE 1.5 fixed it
[08:58:02] <delewis> second rant for the night: /var/apache2/build/libtool requires gsed (by default), which is only on the *optional* companion CD.
[08:58:29] <delewis>  /usr/xpg4/bin/sed seems to work fine, though
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[09:15:50] <Error_404> third issue: why the hell wont perl build on my machine & it makes all of nightly fail
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[09:25:02] <Symmetria> sup all
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[09:32:10] <bougie> hello :)
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[09:42:31] <Fish-> hello
[09:44:29] <JohnG> hi
[09:46:39] <JohnG> not much happening here
[09:50:38] <Error_404> at 1am? not usually, no
[09:50:51] <boro> obviously, it's 10 am
[09:52:14] <Error_404> not PST, which is really all that matters
[09:52:26] <sickness> morning all
[09:52:27] <Error_404> (bow to your northern california mecca)
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[12:34:32] <Gr|ffous> what am I meant to do with the output of zpool status -v, I can't make use of the output. I assume I'm meant to deal to the 'files?' referenced there?
[12:36:24] <Error_404> what's confusing you?
[12:38:20] <Gr|ffous> I have data corruption (had ram issues, fine), and I have 15 apparently after scrubbing
[12:38:54] <Gr|ffous> if I use -v to find out what's wrong I get Dataset, object, and range columns, and I don't know how to interpret this data
[12:39:03] <Gr|ffous>           DATASET  OBJECT  RANGE
[12:39:03] <Gr|ffous>           5        2f220   lvl=0 blkid=2479
[12:39:03] <Gr|ffous>           5        2cd9c   lvl=0 blkid=23
[12:40:47] <Error_404> the device is corrupted
[12:40:58] <Error_404> *shrug* drives suck, yank it and put in a new one
[12:41:22] <boyd> I suspect he means "Which files is this talking about?" By name
[12:41:25] <Gr|ffous> I only have the one drive, and it's fine.
[12:41:34] <Gr|ffous> boyd, bingo :)
[12:42:30] <Gr|ffous> Error_404, I had a Ram dimm fail on me, so some data was corrupted. I've yanked the dimm, and am back to a stable system. I want to tidy up the remaining corruption, but am not quite sure how to proceed from here. This is just my desktop, not a server.
[12:43:14] <boyd> There was a post to zfs-discuss with the subject "tracking error to file" that covers a way of doing that
[12:43:25] <boyd> I can't easily get a URL for it ATM
[12:44:18] <Error_404> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=66995&tstart=0
[12:44:37] <Error_404> that discussion seems to suggest that # find -inum will work
[12:44:55] <boyd> Gr|ffous: It seems first you'd do zdb <poolname> | grep "ID 5,"
[12:45:04] <boyd> Which will give the dataset name
[12:45:34] <boyd> then zdb -vvv <dataset_name> <object#> to get the path
[12:47:57] <Gr|ffous> thanks boyd, that's running now
[12:48:23] <sickness> just back from the gym
[12:48:30] <Gr|ffous> it would seem that this is an area that zfs could be improved apon a bit. The rest of the errors and commands are great to use!
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[12:49:48] <boyd> Ah... seems you may need to use 0x2f220 as the object number... sorry.. later in the thread
[12:50:07] <boyd> Gr|ffous: I think there was an RFE to have filenames displayed
[12:50:59] <Gr|ffous> that would be ace
[12:56:21] <Gr|ffous> I see that the bug has actually been around for quite a long time
[12:56:34] <Gr|ffous> 07-APR-2006
[12:57:37] * boyd smiles. As solaris bugs go that's an infant :)
[12:57:50] <boyd> BUT... the zfs team are quite active
[12:57:56] <boyd> (and v. busy)
[12:58:55] <Gr|ffous> oh I'm sure they are, and it's not 'broken code', so I can understand it being left at the bottom
[12:59:20] <boyd> Personally I'd like to see "remove vdevs from pool" first
[12:59:31] <Gr|ffous> yeah, that's really poor
[12:59:44] <Gr|ffous> I was amazed that it was released without that in fact
[13:00:01] <Gr|ffous> it's like the second thing you tick off when building a volume manager
[13:00:12] <boyd> I'd have thought so...
[13:00:40] <boyd> The last thing I want is to have like a 50TB pool and then accidentally zpool add the wrong device. Now I'm screwed.
[13:01:23] <Gr|ffous> yeah. I fortunately discovered this problem when building my fileserver, while still in the testing phase
[13:01:54] <Gr|ffous> I have a fairly simple raidz, but with an x4500, you could make a disasterous fat-fingered mistake
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[14:13:14] <sickness> vista sux :P
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[14:18:40] <jamesd_> sickness, so does morning sickness yet people still continue to have babies...
[14:19:08] <sickness> lol
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[14:21:05] <nachox> morning
[14:22:08] <jamesd_> hmm.. breakfast nacho's  ;-p
[14:22:39] <nachox> ...
[14:22:58] * nachox stabs jamesd_ with a burrito
[14:23:17] <jamesd_> time for breakfast,  burrito yum!
[14:27:09] <edp> sickness, at least vista *finally* has symlinks
[14:27:24] <nachox> i googled for a while and found some references to 3945abg intel wireless card support being worked on for solaris, anyone knows what happened with that?
[14:30:32] <sickness> eheh yeah, in fact they did a symlink for the old Documents and Settings to the new Users :P
[14:40:24] <edp> heh.. pretty much my only interest in symlinks is to help in deploying crappy software
[14:40:56] <edp> i was glad to see they got rid of the disgusting "Documents and Settings" though
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[14:44:54] <sickness> yeah
[14:45:27] <sickness> "My $Anything" is gone too
[14:45:41] <edp> oh yeah.. just down to "Documents" now right?
[14:45:51] <sickness> yeah someting like that :P
[14:46:06] <myrkraverk> I am reading the solaris 10 device driver tutorial, and there is a spurious ; in the second if in the code on page 73 in the pdf file - should I report that as a bug?
[14:47:17] <myrkraverk> (as in, the code doesn't compile with the ; in)
[14:48:02] <sickness> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/ <- hey link to dvd iso here still points to b51, pleaze update to b52 :)
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[14:51:51] <myrkraverk> even, where would I report such stuff?
[14:59:12] * jmcp saunters in
[14:59:35] <jmcp> myrkraverk: bugs.opensolaris.org, and yes, you should report it
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[14:59:50] <myrkraverk> jmcp: ok ;)
[15:00:01] <jmcp> myrkraverk: it's an important document to have correct
[15:00:11] <Doc> jmcp: how's the camera?
[15:00:17] <jmcp> Doc: nice
[15:00:34] <jmcp> though I didn't have a spare battery today and ran out halfway through Beihai Park
[15:00:35] <jmcp> :(
[15:00:48] <Doc> you might get an email from Michael Akayan - he's looking at getting the same camera/lens
[15:00:55] <Doc> this is why i now have 4 batteries
[15:01:08] <jmcp> ok
[15:01:25] <jmcp> we went to HaiLon tonight .. dammit if I didn't see the 400d black body just on shelves
[15:01:26] <jmcp> grrrr
[15:01:36] <jamesd_> http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2006-11-17-n66.html  very funny
[15:01:51] <Doc> yeah, but canon do local country warranties only
[15:01:58] <jmcp> Doc: I know
[15:03:00] * jmcp looks up prices of 85mm f/1.4 lenses ....
[15:03:30] <jmcp> hm
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[15:07:35] <jamesd_> you should be able to find one cheaper in china
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[15:08:45] <jmcp> jamesd_: I figure as much, I'd just like to know what price they are back home so I can haggle more effectively
[15:08:59] <jamesd_> good idea
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[15:10:35] <rpaulo> mmmm Kenny Garrett
[15:11:12] <myrkraverk> jmcp: I do not see this ; in the html from the opensolaris doc (sources) - only the solaris 10 pdf
[15:11:51] <jmcp> myrkraverk: it's my understanding that the pdf is the canonical form, so if there's a missing ";" in it, it's a problem
[15:12:16] <myrkraverk> jmcp: no, it's an extra ; (but that's not important)
[15:12:28] <jmcp> hm
[15:12:35] <myrkraverk> jmcp: ok, I'll report it anyway
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[15:19:24] <myrkraverk> jmcp: reported - I hope someone listens and uptades the pdfs, if nothing else
[15:19:37] <jmcp> it'll get to the right people
[15:19:48] <myrkraverk> great ;)
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[15:39:10] <delewis> ugh, E4500s take forever to boot. :-(
[15:40:52] <Stric> although reboot is faster
[15:40:57] <jmcp> delewis: you should try an e10k with diags set to max!
[15:41:13] <delewis> jmcp: yes, I've heard the tales.
[15:41:32] <jmcp> delewis: just be thankful you don't have to experience them :)
[15:41:33] <delewis> my E4500 doesn't have diags enabled, though, and it *still* takes about 5-10 minutes.
[15:43:24] <jmcp> delewis:     .        .            .              ...... 250Mhz cpus?
[15:43:53] <delewis> jmcp: 8x400MHz
[15:44:02] <jmcp> I'm surprised
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[15:44:09] <jmcp> which release are you running?
[15:44:16] <delewis> jmcp: SX b52a
[15:44:24] <jmcp> hm
[15:44:43] <delewis> it's up now, finally -- anyway,  it's not booting the operating system that takes time
[15:45:01] <delewis> I get a "Hardware Power ON" and no console output for 5-10 minutes
[15:45:18] <jmcp> what sort of cards and boards do you have attached?
[15:45:29] * jmcp wonders about another beer ......
[15:45:56] <delewis> jmcp: 4 CPU boards, 1 IO board /w 1 GBIC, which is attached to a Photon
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[15:46:24] <jmcp> gee, that is a surprising hw power-on time
[15:46:50] <delewis> I thought so, too, and I've upgraded the firmware, as well
[15:48:26] <delewis> hmm, could the first IO board not being terminated be the problem?
[15:48:37] <delewis> I read somewhere that the first IO board should always be terminated (just remembered that)
[15:49:36] <jmcp> um, I hadn't heard that one
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[15:51:32] <jmcp> gnite all
[15:51:36] <LeftWing> Night.
[15:51:37] * jmcp sleeps
[15:55:30] <tomww> jmcp: only while doing a reconfiguration boot, every NIC is tested for connection. later on, booting should be a bit shorter :)
[15:57:08] <Gadzooks> His bot shouldn't take more than a few minutes, could be a NIC issue?
[15:57:39] <Gadzooks> (boot)
[15:57:42] <Doc> hmm.. made the mistake of deciding to go the bed
[15:57:47] <Doc> 10 seconds later the pager went off... blah
[15:58:11] <delewis> doubtful, as I've got got the a cable plugged into the NIC
[15:58:24] <delewis> it seems to be doing something with the CPU boards
[15:58:46] <delewis> (lots of blinking, and lighting up various lights on each board)
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[16:02:06] <Gadzooks> how many CPUs..try reseating them...was it ever booting before properly?
[16:02:49] <delewis> Gadzooks: just got it in, so no clue. It is booting, just slowly.
[16:03:00] <delewis> and 8 CPUs
[16:03:07] <LeftWing> Doc: That's pretty woeful timing.
[16:04:01] <Gadzooks> Very possible a CPU seating issue... we've had that a few times...
[16:04:32] <delewis> Gadzooks: really? and the CPUs still worked?
[16:04:41] <delewis> prtdiag -v shows all of the CPUs
[16:04:55] <LeftWing> Inductive coupling perhaps? ;P
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[16:06:11] <Stric> Doc: better than just falling asleep, then beep..
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[16:07:34] <Gadzooks> Yes...after we reseated them. usually a slightly loose cable or CPU issue can make things look like they are working fine but cause all sorts of crazy issues.
[16:08:20] <Gadzooks> If you can boot it properly with a previous copy of Solaris 10..that is another issue then.
[16:08:57] <delewis> well, it runs SX b52a fine
[16:09:15] <delewis> and I used SunVTS on it for several hours after the install completed
[16:09:30] <delewis> all of the CPU tests checked out
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[16:10:33] <Gadzooks> But you still have a long boot delay even during a warm boot? Device Initialization is fine?
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[16:10:44] <delewis> Gadzooks: rebooting is fine
[16:10:48] <delewis> a cold start is not, though
[16:11:21] <Gadzooks> Ahhh...
[16:12:40] <lloy0076> I'm currently looking at a Kernel core dump with "mdb -k unix.1 core.1" which has apparently occured in module "genunix" due to a NULL pointer dereference. I suspect my Apache2/TWiki/Perl to be at fault.
[16:13:02] <lloy0076> If I do ::ps or ::pgrep in that session, do I get what *WAS* running then or what *IS* running now...
[16:13:24] <Gadzooks> Ok..just a wild guess... power supply/hard drive... check those out.
[16:15:04] <Doc> apache/twiki/perl cant kill a system
[16:15:34] <Doc> well, not with a panic anyway
[16:15:52] * lloy0076 ponder
[16:15:57] <lloy0076> I'm trying to reproduce the problem.
[16:16:11] <lloy0076> Consequently, if I just go *poof* it means I got the sequence to do so right :P
[16:16:38] <delewis> lloy0076: if the system is panicking, the problem is not at the application-level.
[16:16:39] <Doc> right. but even if you do, the problem isnt with apache/etc
[16:16:47] <delewis> that's a problem with the kernel or hardware.
[16:16:50] <Doc> the problem is with something in the kernel
[16:16:51] <lloy0076> Ok.
[16:16:58] <Doc> was it a trap 31 or what?
[16:18:36] <lloy0076> It's some sort of trap. I can't see an obvious number.
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[16:24:29] <lloy0076> Damn.
[16:25:26] <lloy0076> ::msgbuf indicates a BAD TRAP ... then says httpd: #pf Pae Fault \ Bad kernel fault at addr=0xdc
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[16:47:37] <Axposf> hi all
[16:48:32] <movement> hi
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[16:58:24] <kimc> good morning
[16:59:34] <kimc> hi
[17:00:08] <Axposf> hi kimc
[17:09:54] <kimc> I feel like I've been isolated.. just heard about the Novell/Microsoft 'agreements'
[17:10:57] <kimc> In a Novell FAQ, says here '..Novell will continue to promote Linux as the premier platform for core infrastructure and application services. '
[17:11:10] <kimc> Hmm..
[17:11:24] <kimc> The Premier Platform
[17:12:39] <kimc> Gee I thought Solaris was The Premiere Platform :)
[17:13:46] <myrkraverk> kimc: what agreement?
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[17:14:12] <kimc> Yeh thats what I thought.. http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html
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[17:15:14] <kimc> Later in the above referenced faq: '..both Novell and Microsoft anticipate increased business opportunity through both best of breed product solutions and market differentiation.
[17:16:06] <kimc> Uh huh, Novell-Suse linux is Best Of Breed
[17:17:25] <kimc> If you've enjoyed Microsoft support before, your going to love this
[17:17:33] <kimc> '..Microsoft will distribute as part of a resale arrangement approximately 70,000 coupons for SUSE Linux Enterprise Server maintenance and support per year
[17:17:50] <myrkraverk> kimc: maybe, it *may* be the best linux distro - I am trying to get away from them (linux distros) though mysely
[17:18:21] <myrkraverk> kimc: hmm, 70,000 - probably a drop in the ocean ;P
[17:18:59] <kimc> Well maybe its mostly symbolic
[17:19:26] <myrkraverk> now, the only application that seems to be working with dead keys, is xemacs - is there any way for me to figure out what the others are doing with it?
[17:19:50] <myrkraverk> does it depend on my locale settings? if so, how do I change it?
[17:20:11] <kimc> What do you mean by 'dead keys' ?
[17:21:11] <myrkraverk> I mean pressing ' e is supposed to give me &eacute; (for a littile html instead of utf8 here)
[17:22:32] <kimc> The Novell/Microsoft agreement also provides for the sharing (with a release from liability) of each other's patented intellectual property
[17:22:54] <kimc> I didn't know there could be patented intellectual property within linux
[17:23:14] <myrkraverk> xemacs does its own keyboard processing, so everything else (staroffice and gnome editor, etc...) need a fix somehow ;/
[17:23:25] <kimc> I guess there can be if its Novel SUSE linux
[17:23:33] <myrkraverk> maybe
[17:23:42] <myrkraverk> I try not to care about linux anymore
[17:24:06] <myrkraverk> right now, I just want my dead keys to work in staroffice
[17:25:10] <kimc> I know what you mean myrkraverk but Microsoft just did a deal with the Best of Breed when it comes to Unix so you gotta at least take notice
[17:26:14] <kimc> It wouldn't bogher me one little bit if linux 'just went away'
[17:26:54] <kimc> What if Microsoft had made the same deal with Sun ?
[17:28:44] <kimc> Jeez ya gotta laugh.. Microsoft gives away 70,00 coupons good for Microsoft support for Solaris 10 -huh ? ;)
[17:29:16] <kimc> I guess the 'gives away' part would tell it all..
[17:30:39] <kimc> So myrtraverk: you want to use xemacs with Staroffice right ?
[17:32:33] <kimc> I've never worked with xemacs.. brb
[17:34:19] <myrkraverk> kimc: no, I just want my dead keys to work in staroffice too ;)
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[17:39:42] <Gadzooks> dead keys... xmodmap -pke
[17:42:29] <Gadzooks> also, you can use xkeycaps
[17:42:57] <myrkraverk> hmm, I don't have xkeycaps in my path
[17:44:40] <Gadzooks> http://www.jwz.org/xkeycaps/
[17:44:49] <myrkraverk> Gadzooks: I do have dead_acute on the right key - it only just works with xemacs, not staroffice
[17:44:56] <myrkraverk> ah
[17:45:40] <Gadzooks> Usually a mapping issue..there was a note on it in the Staroffice forums awhile ago.
[17:45:59] <myrkraverk> what is a mapping issue?
[17:46:34] <myrkraverk> and where are the staroffice forums? I seem to have lost the ones I used to use, and now I find too many of them with google ;/
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[17:47:11] <Gadzooks> StarOffice pulls its own config files (or it did) for things like kep maps..I could be wrong now... ceratin apps tend to do that.
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[17:48:14] <Gadzooks> http://supportforum.sun.com/jive/category.jspa?categoryID=136
[17:48:41] <myrkraverk> well, I'm using staroffice 7
[17:49:10] <myrkraverk> strange, last time I checked, there were different forums for calc, writer, and so on
[17:53:20] <myrkraverk> ah, a little bit of google shows that those forums are now closed
[18:01:08] <whaq> gentlemen, I need some advise.. I'm would like to setup a solaris\opensolaris based system primarily for home SAN\NAS purposes (software iscsi & samba) and manage a few usb & firewire based drives. Which distribution should I use? I've downloaded solaris express (b44) and played w/ it, should I use that or download the very latest one?
[18:02:07] <edp> if you're starting off fresh, you might as well go with the latest version
[18:02:32] <whaq> edp, alrighty. what about opensolaris vs solaris express?
[18:02:44] <edp> i've always just used solaris express community release
[18:02:55] <edp> and had very good success with it
[18:03:02] <whaq> great
[18:03:12] <twincest> solaris express _is_ opensolaris
[18:03:18] <twincest> (as much as any opensolars distribution is)
[18:03:26] <whaq> say you've installed b44.. and now the very latest is, what, b50.. how do you update it to get the latest?
[18:03:34] <edp> b52 is the latest
[18:03:37] <Gadzooks> opensolaris (source code)... solaris Xpress.... beta compilation and distro
[18:03:42] <Symmetria> sup twincest
[18:03:51] <whaq> twincest, ohhh ok. There are many FAQs about that, but I don't think any explicitly say such thing..
[18:04:06] <Symmetria> heh twincest, check this out:
[18:04:11] <Symmetria> netflow aalston # cat output |awk '{print $5}' |grep [0-9] |awk '{SUM+=$1} END {print SUM}'
[18:04:11] <Symmetria> 224687911
[18:04:14] <Gadzooks> opensolaris is a "project"
[18:04:17] <whaq> edp, ok. So do you have to redownload all the CD\DVD ISO and update from that?
[18:04:22] <Symmetria> ^^^ column 5, number of rows in tables in my netflow db
[18:04:25] <whaq> Gadzooks, gotcha.
[18:04:29] <Teknix> whaq: the easiest way is to use gnusolaris
[18:04:38] <Symmetria> heh 220 million netflow records in less than 24 hours
[18:04:47] <edp> whaq, yeah
[18:06:04] <twincest> whaq: it's not quite 'is'.  solaris express is based on opensolaris, but they're not identical.
[18:06:19] <whaq> Teknix, (just googled). Yeah, I've played w/ Nexenta.. mainly because I've been a heavy debian user in the past (Before knowing ZFS). But somehow it seems.. unfinished, rough.
[18:06:26] <twincest> Symmetria: large numbers don't impress me :)
[18:06:29] <Teknix> whaq: heh
[18:06:32] <whaq> twincest, ok.
[18:06:53] <Teknix> whaq: unfinished and rough compared to what?
[18:07:03] <Gadzooks> iSCSI... SXCR b56.... (not out yet)
[18:07:24] <whaq> Teknix, and.. incomplete? (compared to solaris express). I don'tknow.. if it works out, that'll help me loads though. Easier learning curves for linux user..
[18:07:26] <twincest> Gad: you mean the target?
[18:07:29] <delewis> Gadzooks: you can grab the iSCSI packages from the iSCSI project page and install them.
[18:07:30] <twincest> iscsi initiator has been there for a while
[18:07:41] <delewis> target support just has not been *integrated* into Solaris Express, yet.
[18:07:50] <Teknix> whaq: there are a few core solaris packages (like the locales) missing, but they're missing from opensolaris also
[18:08:11] <Symmetria> hrm
[18:08:11] <twincest> Teknix: and the manpages for Solaris (ON) utilities, iirc?
[18:08:20] <Symmetria> piece of advice about solaris and iSCSI
[18:08:26] <Teknix> twincest: those also
[18:08:29] <Symmetria> if you're hooking into iSCSI devices
[18:08:30] <Teknix> does SXCR have them?
[18:08:34] <Symmetria> use HBA's
[18:08:35] <delewis> Teknix: of course
[18:08:36] <twincest> Teknix: yes
[18:08:50] <twincest> Teknix: solaris express is what will be solaris 11, so it has everything solaris 11 would have
[18:08:51] <Teknix> well, they can be copied into a nexenta or other opensolaris distro if you must have them now
[18:08:51] <Symmetria> the performance increase on iSCSI through the use of HBA's is *HUGE*
[18:08:56] <whaq> Teknix, what about binary packages? Does it run linux .dpkgs w/ that BrandZ feature?
[18:09:02] <twincest> sadly they can't be copied legally :-(
[18:09:07] <twincest> (to distribute i mean)
[18:09:15] <Teknix> whaq: someone at sun was able to run debian sarge in a brandz
[18:09:24] <Teknix> twincest: no, not to distribute
[18:09:25] <whaq> omg
[18:10:00] <whaq> what kind of performance hit do you get running things in Brandz?
[18:10:05] <delewis> whaq: none
[18:10:06] <twincest> none
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[18:10:12] <delewis> all BrandZ does is re-map Linux syscalls to Solaris syscalls
[18:10:14] <whaq> wow.
[18:10:18] <delewis> it's very simple
[18:10:27] <twincest> it could even be faster, if the Solaris implementation of a feature is faster than Linux's
[18:10:34] <whaq> damn.
[18:10:35] <delewis> indeed.
[18:10:36] <Teknix> there are people who have been running a linux brandz zone and using it for stuff like acroreader, displaying it under the solaris instance
[18:11:08] <whaq> I gotta get this installed asap.. but all I got right now is sol express b44. redownloading b52 will take 2 days for me..
[18:11:19] <Gadzooks> any luck with the Java Acrobat Viewer?
[18:11:31] <whaq> is there anyway to do an over-the-web update, sorta like rsync.. only updating the differences?
[18:11:36] <twincest> what: not with SX
[18:11:37] * delewis is fortunate enough to be on SPARC where there is a native acroread
[18:11:41] <twincest> s/what/whaq
[18:11:46] <Gadzooks> :>
[18:11:55] <whaq> ahhh..
[18:12:01] <edp> whaq, you can probably install with b44 and then upgrade to b52 later though i'm not too familiar with the process
[18:12:27] <delewis> Live Upgrade (and possibly the upgrade process, period) broke somewhere around b44, IIRC.
[18:12:36] <whaq> ohhh..
[18:12:36] <delewis> it should be on the heads-up page
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[18:12:45] <edp> i'm not sure if the on disk zfs format changed between those releases which could cause some lack of features
[18:12:51] <whaq> I think brandz has been in SX since b35 though? (quick googled)
[18:12:54] <delewis> edp: you can upgrade the on-disk format
[18:13:05] <edp> delewis, cool.. i didn't realize that was possible
[18:13:15] <delewis> that's what proper filesystem planning gives you.
[18:13:19] <delewis> ;-)
[18:13:33] <whaq> Welp. I'll just start b52 download and install b44 to test in the meanwhile.
[18:13:43] <Gadzooks> guess that 4500 is working well now.. ;>
[18:13:46] <edp> is the zfs version upgrade a quick upgrade or does it have to rip through all your data?
[18:13:55] <whaq> Thanks guys, you've all been very cool in helping this solaris n00b.
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[18:19:18] <Gadzooks> if only those ATA/SATA drivers had the latest industry updates....hmmm...
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[18:42:21] <Axposf> bye all
[18:42:35] <Axposf> see you later
[18:42:40] <Axposf> :)
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[18:54:05] <edp> where does solaris keep track of what zones are installed?
[18:55:52] <g4lt-mordant> in write-only memory
[18:56:13] <jamesd_> edp, you can use  zoneadm    to get a list.. see the manpage
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[18:58:22] <edp> jamesd_, i'm just playing around wiith lx zones and i'm trying to clone one
[18:59:03] <edp> the new zone shows up in /etc/zones and i've cloned a dataset for it but it says it's not installed, even though i zfs cloned it from an installed zone
[18:59:14] <jamesd_> you can problably clone it if its on zfs filesystem.
[18:59:29] <jamesd_> hmm..
[18:59:36] <jamesd_> ask on  brandz  mailing list.
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[18:59:48] <edp> ok
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[19:28:09] <regx> sup
[19:32:39] <vaneth> ops. sorry :S
[19:32:40] <jamesd_> nothing much, i woke some open source zellots...   uadmin.blogspot.com
[19:32:46] <jbk> heh
[19:32:51] <jbk> no way
[19:32:51] <jbk> :P
[19:33:19] <jbk> usually doesn't it take saying that the gpl isn't the end-all, be-all of software licenses? :)
[19:34:21] <jamesd_>  i did worse,  i said that red hat is going to surrender to Microsoft without a fight.
[19:35:28] <boro> why
[19:35:40] <boro> sorry to mix into your dialog
[19:35:41] <jbk> i saw, i just meant it's really easy to press their buttons
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[19:36:23] <jamesd_> because  Microsoft is going to sue the hell out of Red Hat for patent infringements, unless they agree to accept a nice big fat check and agree to play nice.
[19:36:57] <boro> are there already evident steps ?
[19:37:38] <jamesd_> boro,   MS and novell entered into an agreement, and ballmer is threatening  IP based lawsuits.
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[19:38:01] <jamesd_>  "Linux users owe us Money"  says  Ballmer
[19:38:32] <jbk> though I think IBM is a bit of a wild card..
[19:38:37] <delewis> well, virtual consoles did come from Microsoft, you know :-)
[19:39:00] <delewis> which almost every x86-based Linux or UNIX has made extensive use of.
[19:39:34] <boro> really ? i've read in many places about the agreement
[19:40:10] <boro> world experiences many shakes these times
[19:40:19] <jamesd_> well everyone in the u.s. knows when it comes to lawsuits, its better not to play,  because they rarely have any basis in right or wrong, its about who has the most money to fight long enough to win.
[19:40:44] <boro> yes....here i get same feeling about laywers and everything around them
[19:40:52] <boro> bigger pack of money wins
[19:41:07] <regx> sup
[19:41:36] <delewis> jamesd_: reminds me of the USL v. Univ. of Berkeley
[19:41:40] <boro> novell should be more thanksful to linux for survival of the company
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[19:42:05] <boro> i get the same feeling as if history was about to repeat some way
[19:42:32] <boro> they broke linux into many branches as companies did with unix many years ago
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[19:45:16] <delewis> god, why do Linux users think that building on a 64-bit machine *will* always force you create 64-bit binaries.
[19:45:34] <delewis> and no that's not a question, because I know the answer -- "optimized" Linux distributions fail to ship 32-bit libraries.
[19:47:04] <jbk> i thought the linux runtime linker had issues dealing with mixed userlands (dealing with shared libraries)
[19:47:13] <jbk> but it's been a while since i've had to touch linux
[19:47:22] <delewis> jbk: I think they've at least gotten in straighten out
[19:47:41] <delewis> but all of the lusers have Microsoft ideas in their head and they concluding that the "best" way to run Windows is the best way to run Linux
[19:47:46] <delewis> i.e. minimal.
[19:47:54] <delewis> are*
[19:48:09] <boro> btw, it's out: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/management/powershell/default.mspx
[19:48:19] <boro> saying they are going to beat up unix
[19:50:00] <boro> unrelated question, i want to try ldap server from sun, what app should i try ? Sun java directory server ?
[19:50:13] <delewis> boro: yes
[19:50:14] <jamesd_> yes that would be the one.
[19:50:49] <boro> and directory editor is something like ldap admin from softerra ?
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[19:52:34] <boro> or simpler, can i add new ldap entries using directory editor...
[19:53:13] <jamesd_> yes DS comes with a gui interface
[19:54:15] <boro> so i don't need "un java system directory editor"
[19:54:16] <boro> s
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[20:30:20] <danmorg> hello
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[20:32:24] <danmorg> i heard gnome 2.16 and HAL will be in opensolaris
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[20:36:30] <jamesd_> yes its comming,  b53 if i recall
[20:37:09] * Triskelios is using it
[20:37:32] <Triskelios> hal was in b51 already
[20:38:11] <Triskelios> the gnome 2.16 jds packages are on the jds download page
[20:38:35] <Triskelios> 2.16.1 rather
[20:39:37] <Triskelios> hm, sdlc is still slow as heck... why am I only getting 150kb/s?
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[20:43:47] <Plaidrab> mmm. pkg-get is nice. :)
[20:44:04] <Triskelios> if only blastwave weren't 75% redundant
[20:44:47] <jamesd_> hmmm 1500 packages  90% of them not included even in  opensolaris, doesn't seem redundant to me
[20:46:32] <Plaidrab> I'm trying to get up to get back to maintaining the Solaris packages of a few things. Is blastwave a *reasonable* baseline for such?
[20:46:44] <Plaidrab> For depends and such?
[20:47:00] <twincest> no, not everyone wants to use blastwave
[20:47:18] <Plaidrab> Better to assume source?
[20:47:29] <twincest> what do you mean?
[20:47:46] <Plaidrab> Build from source for depends not in OpenSolaris
[20:49:37] <danmorg> thanks
[20:51:49] <Plaidrab> Gonna be enough of a culture shock not working with gcc. :)  Does gcc not work at all or is it a "gcc can't build solaris" issue?
[20:52:11] <Triskelios> eh? gcc is used to build the amd64 kernel
[20:52:26] * Plaidrab is a Sparcy
[20:52:31] <Triskelios> gcc just isn't preferred because it sucks
[20:52:56] <Plaidrab> So, what's the issue with Blastwave? Is there a singular one?
[20:54:56] <Triskelios> blastwave generally assumes you use solaris 8 and will install its own world of software (e.g. all of gnome and everything it uses when you get a gnome program)
[21:03:09] <Plaidrab> Ah.
[21:03:27] <Plaidrab> I can see why that's an unliked assumption. But also a reasonable one to make.
[21:03:36] <Plaidrab> I'll go to sources.
[21:06:27] <richlowe> Triskelios: it *was* used, it's not anymore.
[21:06:31] <richlowe> but gcc can build, yes.
[21:06:41] <richlowe> wesolows and various others but a whole lot of work into that.
[21:06:44] <richlowe> s/but/put/
[21:07:10] <Plaidrab> I used to gcc. I've never actually used Forte/SunPro/etc
[21:07:23] <Plaidrab> It was blazing slow, but it worked
[21:08:15] <g4lt-mordant> jamesd_, okay, install vim and tell me about nonredundant
[21:08:48] <jamesd_> g4lt-mordant, you have to install the  vim-minimal package so you don't get a full gtk/X enabled version of vim.
[21:09:02] <richlowe> woohoo, the whole blastwave argument again.
[21:09:23] <g4lt-mordant> or even better, install xchat and watch yourself get an entire new version on gnome, despite gnome being in solaris as jds
[21:09:39] <Plaidrab> heh
[21:09:51] <richlowe> that's an artifact of supporting 8 wiithout having the resources to actualy build separately for later releases.
[21:10:08] <g4lt-mordant> and watch xchat also not work becaause it depends on python, which is uninstallable on solaris/sparc
[21:10:11] <jamesd_> but untill recently gnome in solaris is old... blastwave is at least semi new, and they are working on the latest.
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[21:10:44] <richlowe> so pretty much every blastwave package depends on only other blastwave packages, and you end up pulling in most of it with any large install
[21:10:56] <richlowe> it's annoying sure, but you can't really fault it.
[21:11:13] <Plaidrab> So until it's more current with things, it's not as useful for my circumstances
[21:11:28] <jamesd_> yes but you can  nfs share your /opt/csw directory and have a complete working solution on any Solaris box of the same arch.
[21:11:28] <g4lt-mordant> richlowe, no, but I won't stand for it to be called "nonredundant" when it clearly installs redundant packages
[21:11:48] <djgregor> sharing /opt/csw works beautifully with a small-footprint zone. :-)
[21:14:51] <delewis> richlowe: Blastwave also duplicates various headers and libraries, which complicates building other software.
[21:15:17] <delewis> many times, I've seen users use includes from /usr/sfw or other places, but link with Blastwave libs which have missing symbols
[21:15:22] <delewis> and vice versa
[21:16:08] <delewis> and if you build software and it "accidently" links against the bloated Blastwave install base, and you decide to remove a csw package that it linked against, *poof*
[21:16:40] * Triskelios just pkgadd'ed the blastwave xchat package by itself
[21:17:04] <delewis> Triskelios: install gnupg
[21:17:12] <delewis> you'll receive OpenLDAP (client and server, IIRC)
[21:18:11] <Triskelios> yup
[21:18:36] <Triskelios> should be split into a seperate library package
[21:18:45] <Triskelios> but that also goes for a lot of SUNW stuff
[21:18:59] <Triskelios> *separate rather
[21:19:01] <Plaidrab> Well, I suppose I'm fortunate all I pulled in so far was cvs. :)
[21:19:16] <delewis> you pulled cvs in from Blastwave? why?
[21:19:22] <delewis> it builds quite easily.
[21:19:27] <delewis> even with Sun Studio, of course.
[21:21:52] <g4lt-mordant> delewis, chicken-and-egg problem, how do you checkout the cvs source? ;P
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[21:23:24] <delewis> g4lt-mordant: grab a tarball.
[21:23:54] * Triskelios much prefers SVR4 packages
[21:23:59] * g4lt-mordant hands delewis "smileys for dummies"
[21:24:09] <delewis> oh :-)
[21:24:20] <delewis> Triskelios: you can create your own SVR4 packages.
[21:24:26] <delewis> after you build, that is.
[21:25:04] <twincest> and creating svr4 packages is very simple (compared to say, rpm or dpkg)
[21:25:16] <delewis> dpkg isn't that bad.
[21:25:17] <delewis> rpm is another matter
[21:25:33] <delewis> dpkg actually reminds me of SVR4 packages, somewhat.
[21:25:45] <delewis> and Slackware tgz's are the easiest of all :-)
[21:25:49] <twincest> it's easier with debhelper but still a fair bit more complex than svr4
[21:26:27] <twincest> (except for perl modules--i want a dh_make_perl for solaris :)
[21:26:47] <delewis> ugh, perl modules.
[21:26:57] <Triskelios> yeah, I've had good experiences maintaining debian packages
[21:27:03] <Plaidrab> delewis: I hadn't gone looking for it yet. That's all
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[21:28:52] <Plaidrab> I don't even know, yet, how to set up the environment for ProC
[21:29:03] <g4lt-mordant> actually, that might be kinda cool, have a CMS that bootstraps itself and checks out the source and builds itself
[21:32:02] <Plaidrab> is gnome tar supposed to be around? :)
[21:32:16] <trygvis> you mean gnu tar?
[21:32:21] <trygvis> it would be under /usr/sfw/bin/
[21:32:24] <Plaidrab> I can't tell what's missing, what's moved, and what's just frelled up environment
[21:32:35] <Plaidrab> there. that sfw path.
[21:32:49] <Plaidrab> Yeah, wrong silly g. :)
[21:33:28] <delewis> Plaidrab: it's planned to be killed off so /usr/gnu can take it's place
[21:33:34] <delewis> and the prefix'd g will be removed
[21:33:43] <richlowe> Different intents, but yeah.
[21:34:06] <richlowe> non-conflicting stuff from /usr/sfw moved to /usr/bin, conflicting stuff left still, GNU environment setup in /usr/gnu so you can adjust your path to shadow system stuff with it.
[21:34:11] <Plaidrab> I'm weird. I expect things to be in /usr/bin or usr/local/bin/ or a product specific /opt/ directory. THat's it.
[21:34:25] <delewis> Plaidrab: GNU utils do not deserve to be in /usr/bin
[21:34:30] <Plaidrab> I've not really adjusted to anything post 8 in terms of system placement behavior
[21:34:33] <delewis> they are not compliant with various standards.
[21:34:34] <richlowe> delewis: don't be silly.
[21:34:42] <richlowe> delewis: g-prefixed, they're just fine there.
[21:34:43] <Plaidrab> no, they don't. They "would" be in /usr/local/bin
[21:34:45] <boyd> delewis: Are you serious? It's going to be called "tar". That sucks
[21:35:00] <delewis> boyd: yes, but you'll have a /usr/gnu to add to your path.
[21:35:11] <Plaidrab> "would" meaning in my broken thinking way of doing things.
[21:35:17] <boyd> Still sucks. Sometimes I want tar, sometimes gtar
[21:35:19] <richlowe> boyd: The goal was to have /usr/gnu operate as /usr/ucb and /usr/xpg*
[21:35:32] <delewis> boyd: yes
[21:35:37] <Plaidrab> Is there some behavior of tar gtar does not do properly?
[21:35:51] <delewis> Plaidrab: gtar does not comply with the POSIX spec for the tar archive format
[21:35:56] <delewis> it does not handle long filenames properly
[21:36:03] <boyd> Plaidrab: PAthnames > 100 chars for one of many examples
[21:36:05] <g4lt-mordant> delewis, that's good, it's akin to /usr/ucb and /usr/xpg4/6
[21:36:08] <delewis> hence the @LongLink nonsense when you try to expand a gtar'd archive.
[21:36:14] <Plaidrab> Good loprd. That's a very broken then
[21:36:40] * boyd sighs... I'd hoe they at least keep a gtar -> tar ling in /usr/gnu
[21:36:43] <richlowe> also, standard compliance is the smaller issue there.
[21:36:43] <boyd> link
[21:36:49] <richlowe> "What Solaris tools have always done" compliance, would be much harder.
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[21:37:10] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, symlink /usr/gnu/bin/tar to /usr/bin/gtar ;P
[21:37:30] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: I'm hoping not to have to :(
[21:37:33] <richlowe> boyd: I would expect g* to still be present in a normal path.
[21:37:52] <boyd> Well, that's OK.
[21:37:55] <richlowe> but given the conversation around /usr/gnu is several months old, and totally dried up, who knows what's happening with it at this point? :)
[21:38:31] <Plaidrab> Sounds like a political decision more than technical one, but I can CERTAINLy understand it.
[21:38:49] <regx> where are the conf's for apache located?
[21:39:10] <delewis> Plaidrab: customers would not be very happy if their tar archives failed to expand properly :-)
[21:39:20] <Plaidrab> Okay, earlier someone mentioned that gcc (I assume the SUNWgcc? package I saw in my pkginfo earlier) sucked. Why's that?
[21:39:29] <boyd> regx: /etc/apache or /etc/apache2
[21:39:34] <regx> k
[21:39:37] <delewis> Plaidrab: gcc's code generation for SPARC sucks.
[21:39:42] <Plaidrab> delewis: Agreed on that.
[21:39:51] <Plaidrab> OPtimization  or stability or both?
[21:40:05] <delewis> Plaidrab: interface and optimization mostly.
[21:40:11] <delewis> gcc handles warnings poorply
[21:40:14] <delewis> poorly*
[21:40:26] <Plaidrab> Hmm.
[21:40:31] <delewis> and it has differing meanings for march and mcpu depending on the architecture
[21:40:38] <delewis> on x86, march and mcpu are identical
[21:40:45] <delewis> on SPARC, for example, they are different
[21:40:48] * steleman knows what's happening with /usr/gnu but is not telling
[21:41:10] <delewis> Plaidrab: like most GNU freeware, it's completely inconsistent with itself.
[21:41:18] <Plaidrab> righto
[21:41:34] <Plaidrab> People fix what they wanna fix.
[21:41:54] <Triskelios> what's the last name of the guy George who does vm stuff?
[21:41:59] <boyd> steleman: Ahh... that's right. I forgot that the GNU tools in OPEN solaris would be secret
[21:42:31] <boyd> Triskelios: Costanza?
[21:42:50] <steleman> boyd: My name is Bond. James Bond.
[21:43:02] <boyd> :)
[21:43:03] <Triskelios> haha
[21:43:23] <jamesd_> gotta love the idiots of the world,  one claims i am not part of the Solaris or OpenSolairs community in any way.
[21:43:24] <Plaidrab> I would not be surprised at Sparc being intentionally neglected due to the somewhat. ahem.. rocky hatred some open folks have at Sun for not giving away Java under their preferred terms
[21:43:46] <delewis> Plaidrab: SPARC has nothing to do with Sun, specifically.
[21:43:50] <delewis> it is a completely open architecture
[21:44:08] <delewis> the gcc developers have no reason, whatsoever to neglect it other that bigotry, if that's the case.
[21:44:36] <delewis> the problem is gcc has always been poor at RISC code generation
[21:44:44] <Plaidrab> You're applkying logic to an irrational argument though. :)
[21:44:57] <delewis> the only RISC platform gcc generates somewhat decent code for is PowerPC
[21:45:02] <delewis> and the reason for that should be obvious.
[21:45:03] <jamesd_> i guess so..
[21:45:15] <regx> ok how do i start apache?  svcadm enable http ?
[21:45:34] <Plaidrab> Hee. I still gotta learn smf
[21:45:48] <boyd> Of course, the fact that the UltraSPARC T1 being Open Source appears not to have led to an abandonment of the closed x86 platform for some reason
[21:45:54] <Triskelios> service is probably apache2
[21:46:13] <g4lt-mordant> Plaidrab, if you want ugly, try this in gcc4{switch foo {case 1: {//do stuff;break}
[21:46:16] <g4lt-mordant> bah
[21:46:25] <Triskelios> why does apache1 still ship? that's confusing
[21:46:34] <boyd> regx: I'm not sure of the service name, but make sure you have http.conf forst
[21:46:37] <boyd> first
[21:46:48] <regx> when i do that line.. it accepts it but i dont see apache running at all
[21:47:10] <g4lt-mordant> Plaidrab, if you want ugly, try this in gcc4{switch foo {case 1: {//do stuff;break} case2: {//do stuff;break} case 3: {//dfo stuff;break} case 65536: {//do stuff;break} }
[21:47:15] <boyd> Triskelios: Many people are still using it
[21:47:16] <steleman> regx: /usr/apache2/bin/apachectl start
[21:47:21] <g4lt-mordant> that will kill your comp[ile
[21:47:24] <steleman> tail -f /var/apache2/logs/error_log
[21:47:34] <regx> thanks
[21:48:01] <Triskelios> steleman: does that update the smf status correctly?
[21:48:06] <boyd> Triskelios: No
[21:48:07] <steleman> Triskelios: no
[21:48:22] <g4lt-mordant> it populates cases 4-65535 with nops and overflows the stack pointer
[21:48:28] <steleman> Triskelios: but neither does svcadm for that matter
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[21:48:54] <MikeE> hi all
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[21:49:24] <boyd> steleman: What?
[21:49:27] <Triskelios> online         Oct_15   svc:/network/http:apache2
[21:49:32] <Triskelios> that looks correct to me
[21:49:39] <Triskelios> (using svcadm of course0
[21:49:48] <steleman> boyd: my apache2 service has been stuck in maintenance mode for 2 months and it survived in this state over several reboots :-)
[21:49:57] <boyd> Then it's broken
[21:50:04] <MikeE> can someone explain this line in PRSTAT for me :   26138 mikee    1385M  907M sleep   56    0   3:11:42 1.1% Xsun/1
[21:50:09] <Triskelios> steleman: you should clear the maintenance state
[21:50:16] <steleman> Triskelios: trus me i tried
[21:50:29] <Plaidrab> I will see how hard it is to try using Whatever Forte is called now. :)
[21:50:30] <boyd> What reason does svcs -x give?
[21:50:34] <MikeE> (I mean, why is Xsun being SUCH a pig... I have mozilla, and 3 terminal windows open)
[21:50:43] <boyd> Plaidrab: Sun Studio 11
[21:50:45] <delewis> MikeE: Mozilla is the problem
[21:50:48] <Triskelios> mozilla mem leak probably
[21:50:53] <delewis> it is storing pixmaps in the X11 server
[21:50:56] <g4lt-mordant> MikeE, there's nothing to explain, your x server isn't doing anything at that point
[21:51:09] <twincest> g4lt-mordant: what version of gcc4?  it seems okay here (4.1.1, linux)
[21:51:15] <regx> [Sat Nov 18 06:59:24 2006] [error] httpd: could not log pid to file /var/run/apache2/httpd.pid
[21:51:16] <steleman> Stopping because all processes in service exited.
[21:51:35] <steleman> and this is what i call an enlightening error message
[21:51:38] <regx> [Sat Nov 18 06:59:24 2006] [error] (2)No such file or directory: could not create /var/run/apache2/httpd.pid
[21:51:40] <regx> [Sat Nov 18 06:59:24 2006] [error] httpd: could not log pid to file /var/run/apache2/httpd.pid
[21:51:41] <steleman> "I stopped because i stopped."
[21:51:42] <MikeE> The problem is that its sucking up all the memory... I think the culprid may ahve been FFox2.... Its not running anymore, but it may have leaked like a siv while it was & didn't clean up after itself?
[21:51:52] <Symmetria> regx have you got a /var/run/apache2
[21:51:55] <Symmetria> directory
[21:52:00] <regx> nope
[21:52:03] <Symmetria> make one
[21:52:04] <g4lt-mordant> twincest, the numbers may be a bit low.  if you look at the assembly output, it literally filols in with 65536 conditional branches when you're actually using four
[21:52:07] <Symmetria> and try and clear the state again
[21:52:13] <Triskelios> MikeE: most of the memory should be freed after you close it though
[21:52:34] <g4lt-mordant> MikeE, mozill has the same memorly leak
[21:52:35] <MikeE> doesn't seem to go down... thats why I'm concerned Xsun is doing something bad...
[21:52:41] <regx> If you can see this, it means that the installation of the Apache web server software on this system was successful.
[21:52:46] <regx> :) thanks Symmetria
[21:52:50] <twincest> g4lt: it generates a series of cmpl's here, no filling
[21:53:06] <Symmetria> Memory: 4095M real, 146M free, 3884M swap in use, 9646M swap free
[21:53:07] <Symmetria> heh
[21:53:08] <Symmetria> wheee
[21:53:26] <regx> jeez
[21:53:41] <g4lt-mordant> twincest, now take the end number and up it by a power of two or two.  I thoiught the pointer overflowed at 65536, it may be at a bit more
[21:53:52] <Plaidrab> I downloaded it and extracted it to /opt/SUNWspro. Using cvs as an example, what do I need to do to get it picked up as my cc or c++? Just put it earlier in my path? set CC?
[21:54:26] <Plaidrab> hmm. That seems to have worked.
[21:54:29] <MikeE> I've got 2GB on this box and Xsun is using more than 60% of it... MikeE no LikeE
[21:54:44] <twincest> galt: no change with INT_MAX (2147483647)
[21:55:18] <twincest> i don't see a pointer in the asm output that it could overflow..
[21:55:56] <Plaidrab> eek. Where's make? :)
[21:56:04] <g4lt-mordant> maybe they fixed it on 4.1.  IJSTR that you could bring the compiler to its knees with a 5 position swithc/case with the end canse being some obscenely large number
[21:56:09] <jamesd_> mike apparently something has a mem leak.. it may be time to restart X
[21:56:13] <steleman> \/usr/ccs/bin/make
[21:56:29] <Plaidrab> Hmm. I was sure I had ccs in my path. That would explain it though
[21:56:42] <myrkraverk> isn't ddi_soft_state_free the compliment of ddi_soft_state_zalloc ?
[21:56:51] <twincest> g4lt: could have been a bug.  studio has lots of those too :)
[21:57:20] <Plaidrab> Newp, I didn't. just ucb. silly me.
[21:57:29] <twincest> don't put /usr/ucb in your path!!
[21:57:44] <myrkraverk> I'm wondering, why _free doesn't have the same argument(s) as _zalloc and _get_soft_state in the tutorial
[21:57:53] <steleman> Plaidrab: please save yourself a lot of aggravation and remove anything named \/usr/ucb* from your path
[21:58:09] <Plaidrab> Old bad habit? I seem to remember needing it for *somethign* at sometime.
[21:58:43] <twincest> some people do it so their ps has a BSD syntax, but that's a really bad idea
[21:58:46] <Plaidrab> Could be. I haven't built anything on a sparc box since the RIF. Bain is VERY fuzzy
[21:58:55] <steleman> ps auxwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[21:58:59] <myrkraverk> that is, in chapter 3 of the device driver tutorial, is qotd_attach() correct? does anyone care to confirm?
[21:59:04] <Plaidrab> I still -aux a lot. :)
[21:59:11] <twincest> if you really want that, alias ps
[21:59:12] <alanc> MikeE: if you don't want see so much memory listed under Xsun, stop running firefox/mozilla which cache lots of images in the X server and use a video card with less on-board VRAM which confuses users by showing up as memory used by X when it's on the videocard not in system RAM
[21:59:20] <twincest> but the ucb ps misses lots of features that the normal one has
[21:59:40] <twincest> (basically any ability to report on a feaeture solaris has and bsd didn't :)
[21:59:46] <Plaidrab> Oh, I'm pretty sure I didn't do it for that. I *nearly* have that habit broken. nearly.
[22:00:05] <myrkraverk> alanc: or simply stop running X ;)
[22:00:22] <myrkraverk> alanc: btw, did you see my /msg ?
[22:00:25] <alanc> I would never advise that
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[22:00:29] <myrkraverk> alanc: haha ;)
[22:00:33] <alanc> no
[22:00:46] <alanc> maybe it's on my xchat in the office
[22:01:35] * steleman wonders if a 64-bit GNU sed has any practical application
[22:01:40] <myrkraverk> alanc: could be, I sent you the bug ids for xkeyboard-config and opensolaris - the patch has been approved upstream, aparently
[22:02:05] <alanc> I saw the upstream bugs, since I'm on the upstream bugzilla e-mail lists
[22:02:14] <myrkraverk> ah, k ;)
[22:02:21] <alanc> attached your patch to the opensolaris bug when I saw it in the opensolaris triage queue
[22:02:23] <boyd> steleman: it would be handy for all my text files with > 5GB lines :)
[22:02:29] <myrkraverk> alanc: great ;)
[22:02:40] <twincest> boyd: 5GL? :)
[22:02:45] <steleman> boyd: yes that's  the target market :-)
[22:03:03] <boyd> twincest: no no 5GB PER LINE
[22:03:16] <myrkraverk> you ppl have text files with smaller than 15GB lines?
[22:03:34] <Plaidrab> I usually insert a CR around 12
[22:03:35] <twincest> boyd: oh.  in england, lots of /etc/passwd files have 5GB lines--people over here have long names
[22:03:43] <myrkraverk> Plaidrab: ;)
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[22:04:17] <myrkraverk> twincest: yes, but even some of those have \n in their names ;)
[22:04:41] <boyd> twincest: I'd have thought that was more of a problem in Germany. Or more likely India or Thailand
[22:04:43] <Plaidrab> Well, CVS built almost perfectly cleanly.
[22:05:02] * steleman decies to ignore the potential practical applications and go for the bragging rights
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[22:05:21] <myrkraverk> btw, I'll ask again, shouldn't ddi_soft_state_free use the same pointer as ddi_soft_state_zalloc ? (I'm questioning the validity of the device driver tutorial)
[22:05:28] <MikeE> alanc // I have an Xsun process that is taking 1.2GB on this little machine of mine, I'm patched upto the latest S10 patches (x86)... any thoughts about what might be going on? (quitting the browsers doesn't appear to free up mem)
[22:06:15] <alanc> there is a truetype font memory leak in S10 for which the patch has not yet been released
[22:06:32] <rydis> If it's pixmaps allocated by mozilla or its ilk, just quitting it won't free the pixmaps, will it?
[22:06:34] <MikeE> alanc is that the security deal?
[22:07:20] <alanc> not security - security was buffer overflow in font reading
[22:07:39] <Plaidrab> Oh. And a simpler question. I'm trying to export my display back to my FC6 box. Is there any kind of default security policy I would know of that would stop it? I did the proper xhost +ing and such.
[22:07:47] <alanc> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6245381
[22:08:06] <alanc> snv_42 or later?  yes - remote access to solaris is disabled by default
[22:08:07] <MikeE> alanc // than maybe this is the culprid... is there a way to flush pixmaps or something from Xsun manually? (pmap shows lots and lots of little entries)
[22:08:20] <alanc> restart it
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[22:08:25] <Plaidrab> From Solaris to FC, not the other way
[22:08:55] <alanc> solaris was just about the last OS to disable remote X display by default - all the Linuxes did it long ago
[22:08:59] *** Fish- has quit IRC
[22:09:00] <alanc> use ssh -X instead
[22:09:19] <MikeE> alanc // let me nuke it. I'll be back in a few (Sun Ray so I'll get pretty well punted) we'll see how quickly is goes up again. I'm suspecting FFox2 at this point.... we'll see.
[22:09:42] <Plaidrab> Hmm. k
[22:09:44] <alanc> oh, there's also a Sun Ray Xinerama memory leak fixed in the Xsun patch released yesterday
[22:10:00] <alanc> I didn't know you were on Sun Ray
[22:10:15] <MikeE> alanc // why else would I be running Xsun and not Xorg :-)
[22:10:33] <Plaidrab> Does 4.0 use xorg or xsun?
[22:10:39] <MikeE> (no xinerama though... single screen)
[22:10:42] <MikeE> Xsun only...
[22:10:45] <Plaidrab> We're still on SRS3.1 at work
[22:10:58] <MikeE> 4 and 4 11/06 are still 3.1
[22:10:59] <alanc> SRS 4 = SRSS 3.1
[22:11:02] <MikeE> (3.11 for linux)
[22:11:08] <MikeE> (3.1.1 that is)
[22:11:15] <Plaidrab> But we get to use comets. So it's sorta sexy ... for about 2 minutes
[22:11:17] <icon> okay guys im out for the move. see you all on monday (hopefully)
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[22:11:23] <MikeE> don't get me started on the marketting genius that came up with that one...
[22:11:28] <alanc> the entire Sun Ray team wants to strangle marketing for that bit of confusion
[22:11:50] <MikeE> Plaidrab // the comet concept is very cool... execution is a bit tough though...
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[22:11:56] <Plaidrab> Probably the same people who picked the Yellow and Red colorscheme when all the iPlanet branding was ditched for SunOne which was shortly later ditched for.. oh, hell with it
[22:12:27] <Plaidrab> We have 4 Comet 15s, but we use them wired. Someone REALLY needs to make a Server Room Sunray Tray unit
[22:12:45] <MikeE> Its called a 170/270 :-)
[22:12:58] <Plaidrab> We thought about that.
[22:13:00] <MikeE> but I hear ya.... a tray would be even nicer
[22:13:01] <Plaidrab> Not really the same
[22:13:18] <MikeE> we have the 170's. They fold pretty flat and do OK on a tray.
[22:13:27] <MikeE> (I hear the 270's don't fold flat anymore)
[22:13:41] <Plaidrab> I believe we were told we can't get 170s anymore.
[22:14:08] <Plaidrab> I also think a wireless tablet model would be killer
[22:14:12] <MikeE> I think the 270's allow vertical wall-mount, which could be an interesting way to solve the issue.....
[22:14:42] <MikeE> the accunet or whatever people just released their "portable" version. Looks better than the comet so far, and about 1/3 the price...
[22:14:49] <Plaidrab> If we could mount them in the backside of a cabinet door with a sold keyboard on a hinge, yeah
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[22:15:06] <Plaidrab> Oh really? Have a URL? I haven't seen those
[22:15:15] <MikeE> let me dig it up, 1 sec...
[22:15:16] <Plaidrab> Lord knows the Comets are damned overpriced
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[22:17:12] <Plaidrab> Hmm. Looks like modern versions of configure seem to know how to deal with SunPro. Yay.
[22:17:53] <MikeE> http://www.accutechco.com/  go the the SURVAILANCE tab... then at the bottom
[22:18:20] <MikeE> (it may be more like a comet12 though...)
[22:18:34] <Plaidrab> Ah hell. Requires flash. :/
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[22:22:24] <MikeE> Plaidrab, whatcha think?
[22:22:39] <Plaidrab> No flash on this box. FC6 AMD64
[22:23:20] <MikeE> AHmmm let me see if I can deeplink to it...
[22:23:32] <Plaidrab> Appreciate it.
[22:24:16] <Plaidrab> Marketings absurddependance on Flash for things that can be done as well without flash annoys me. I don't hate flash but I so rarely see it used well or appropriately
[22:24:43] <MikeE> http://59.124.26.73/_2006/surveillance.html   (but I think it may still need flash)
[22:25:01] <MikeE> and its a simple page... using flash for somehting like that is just silly...
[22:25:40] <Plaidrab> I get nothin.
[22:25:45] <Plaidrab> Lemme fire up the Nokia
[22:25:50] <MikeE> must be the lack of flash...
[22:26:24] <MikeE> Plaidrab , they don't have flash for  OS/PROC combo? (I'm running Solaris x86, and thats usually last on the list for those things)
[22:26:43] <Plaidrab> No 64 bit Linux Flash. newp.
[22:27:27] <Plaidrab> You can use the 32 if you go to the trouble of it, but honestly, I usually find any site I can't get into, I don't need to that badly
[22:27:30] <MikeE> and you can't run the 32-bit one? (linux supports mixed mode 32/64 bit stuff right?)
[22:27:58] <Plaidrab> Yeah, you have to do some kind of 32bit jail or somesuch. yo can't mix plugins though
[22:28:25] <MikeE> (don't know too much about linux in the whole 64-bit space... kinda used to the sparc-side of things where all that stuff pretty much runs side-by-side...
[22:30:12] <Plaidrab> Yeah. Get spoiled.
[22:31:21] <delewis> 64-bit on Linux still seems to be clummsy from what I gather from other lusers.
[22:31:32] <delewis> most of them don't want 32-bit libraries installed on the system, anyway.
[22:31:35] <delewis> because it's "bloat"
[22:31:47] <delewis> go figure.
[22:32:07] <Plaidrab> I can see the page on my nokia, but I don't seem to be able to look at any details on that Sunray
[22:32:12] <MikeE> odd... even on brand-new sparc systems, you'll see that /bin/ls for instance is a nice 32-bit program... it just works.
[22:32:13] <delewis> storage gets bigger, and people still gripe about 8GB installs and so fourth.
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[22:32:33] <myrkraverk> delewis: it's probably going to get worse with the 128 bit revolution ;)
[22:32:40] <delewis> MikeE: 32-bit is even more essential on SPARC, as 64-bit is somewhat more expensive.
[22:33:06] <delewis> AMD64 circumvents this by providing "memory modes" so you don't always have to address a 64-bit address space even with a 64-bit binary.
[22:33:15] <MikeE> delewis, right... but then isn't it a GOOD thing to leave programs that don't need 64/128 bit at their "optimum" bit-ness.
[22:33:22] <delewis> MikeE: yes
[22:33:33] <delewis> unfortunately, lusers think bloat is worse than functionality.
[22:33:37] <MikeE> but the aforementioned "lusers" don't like that....
[22:33:44] <Plaidrab> Well, as it's been explain to me, another part of the problem is every distro seems to want to handle the 32/64 mixed issue their own way
[22:33:47] <twincest> but AMD64 ABI provides more than just 64-bit pointers
[22:33:55] <twincest> more registers, for example, which IA-32 is really short of
[22:34:10] <MikeE> but if there is only a single say /bin/ls , and its 32-bit... how is that bloat?
[22:34:24] <delewis> MikeE: because of the libs that 32-bit programs link with
[22:34:25] <myrkraverk> twincest: imho, ia-32 should have been thrown into the sea 10+ years ago ;)
[22:34:28] <rydis> MikeE: Because you need 32-bit libraries.
[22:34:30] <MikeE> (i can see there is bloat if you provide a 16,32,64 bit version of ls)
[22:34:31] <delewis> you still need 32-bit libraries only side your 32-bit binaries.
[22:34:37] <delewis> along*
[22:34:38] <MikeE> aah got it, thanks.
[22:34:46] <jbk> oh noes
[22:34:47] <delewis> which means you need a 32-bit libc, libm, etc.
[22:34:54] <delewis> as well as the 64-bit variations
[22:34:55] <jbk> that means it'll cost another $.10
[22:35:02] <jbk> in disk space
[22:35:03] <jbk> :)
[22:35:06] <delewis> it's not really that big of a deal, because storage has increased in density
[22:35:08] <myrkraverk> jbk: ;)
[22:35:09] <delewis> but people *still* whine
[22:35:14] <delewis> like they have 500MB disks
[22:35:22] <MikeE> wheeeehhh my brah is on too tight...
[22:35:35] <rydis> jbk: Nah, just use Amazon S3. I think it's 15 cents/month/gig. ;)
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[22:35:46] <myrkraverk> delewis: yes, they see it as a competiton with the full dvd quality of the chaplin collection ;0
[22:36:32] <myrkraverk> (with surround and overything)
[22:37:00] <delewis> I still think a 36GB disk is big, actually.
[22:37:09] <delewis> for my needs, anyway.
[22:37:11] <vaneth> i really is ;]
[22:37:16] <vaneth> s/i/it
[22:37:18] <vaneth> :>
[22:37:19] <delewis> and I'll never, ever be able to use the 400GB in my Photon completely.
[22:37:30] <vaneth> i have some machines with 5GB hdd ;]
[22:37:35] <vaneth> routers on linux ;>
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[22:37:49] * myrkraverk has 1TB lying on the floor, unused
[22:38:04] <delewis> 1TB isn't that impressive unless you specify the disk type :-)
[22:38:10] <vaneth> myrkraverk; oh, send me it ;>
[22:38:12] <tomww> :-)
[22:38:27] <delewis> when I hear "Oh, I've got 1TB of storage" the first thought that flies through my head is "IDE or SATA?"
[22:38:30] <myrkraverk> delewis: 4 ide, I think
[22:38:33] <tomww> kb/MB please or, Kw/MB
[22:38:52] <delewis> 1TB of SCSI of FC is a bit more impressive. :-)
[22:39:22] <myrkraverk> delewis: meant for computers I'd like to play with - plaing with different OSes and stuff - something arcane like AROS and FreeDOS
[22:40:06] <twincest> if it runs on x86 it's not arcane :)
[22:40:25] <Plaidrab> heh
[22:40:34] <Triskelios> why would you give crap like that real hardware anyway?
[22:40:51] <Plaidrab> hmm. no why is this autogen failing. pushd is a shell command, aint it?
[22:41:21] <twincest> pushd is a cshism, isn't it?
[22:42:29] <myrkraverk> Triskelios: becouse I *have* the real hardware lying around?
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[22:46:02] <Triskelios> that usually means you should find a better use for the hardware
[22:48:08] <Plaidrab> is an sh based script.
[22:48:33] <Plaidrab> Okay. Looks like I need to get automake in here.
[22:48:34] <twincest> ain't no pushd in sh
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[22:51:01] <_william_> hi all
[22:52:02] <Plaidrab> Hmm. Musta always failed and I never noticed. :)
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[22:57:35] <myrkraverk> Triskelios: like what?
[22:58:45] <Triskelios> like not wasting electricity?
[22:59:16] <Triskelios> or send it to someone who needs it or something
[23:00:41] <myrkraverk> Triskelios: I'm in iceland, electricity is cheap and clean energy
[23:01:19] <dwc-> 1tb of storage isn't impressive if it's 50 20gb pata drives
[23:01:21] <Plaidrab> Lotsa geothermal, isn;'t it?
[23:01:34] <dwc-> and these days 1tb could be 2 500g disks
[23:01:38] <Triskelios> myrkraverk: ah, ok then
[23:01:49] <Plaidrab> Hmm. My u5 just spontaneously rebooted
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[23:03:30] <Plaidrab> I think I may be having thermal issues. :)
[23:04:45] <Plaidrab> bugger.
[23:04:50] <Plaidrab> Well, I'll leave it off a bit
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[23:11:57] <Triskelios> http://trisk.acm.jhu.edu/nv-dvd-tools/ if anyone wants to automate downloading and (efficiently) extracting Nevada DVD images
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[23:34:13] <Axposf> hi all
[23:35:05] <jamesd_> hola
[23:35:34] <Axposf> :)
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[23:39:45] <richlowe> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2006110701/
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