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[00:04:38] <bohanlon> Actually, if I do gcc hello.c, it is fine, but if I do "gcc -c hello.c; ld /usr/lib/libc.so hello.o", it segfaults after printing "hello, world"
[00:14:06] <rydis> bohanlon: Doesn't recent gcc often require some sort of libgcc.so, if you haven't taken great care when building gcc?
[00:14:55] <dunc> anyone know how i can find out which attribute this means when i try fire up an lx zone?
[00:14:58] <dunc> could not set zone brand attribute.: Invalid argument
[00:15:37] <bohanlon> rydis: I have not had to do that before; where would sun hide that.
[00:15:38] <bohanlon> ?
[00:16:06] <rydis> I'm not sure.
[00:17:18] <rydis> /usr/sfw/lib/gcc/sparc-sun-solaris2.10/3.4.3/libgcc.a in the only Solaris 10 machine I have accessible right now.
[00:17:29] <bohanlon> Yeah; that did not seem to help
[00:17:53] <sickness> evening all
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[00:18:11] <sickness> well 'night
[00:18:39] <_william_> hi all
[00:18:42] <bohanlon> sickness: good evenight
[00:18:59] <alanc> using ld directly to generate binaries is not recommended and can cause weird failures
[00:19:06] <alanc> use the compiler to link instead
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[00:19:18] <alanc> it knows what the OS needs much better than you or I do
[00:19:33] <bohanlon> Yeah, I was just testing hypotheses.
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[00:20:11] <bohanlon> Being not sure what the software may have done
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[00:24:52] <gisburn> !seen kupfer
[00:24:54] <Drone> kupfer (kupfer!i=kupfer@nat/sun/x-4f49b394ec6833e8) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 08 Nov 2006 23:13 GMT, saying 'hi Rich.  thanks for forwarding me the tools list.'.
[00:24:59] <gisburn> Umpf
[00:25:48] <gisburn> As usual people aren't there when you need them.
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[00:27:37] <gisburn> alanc: ping!
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[00:29:29] <gisburn> grumpf
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[00:30:17] <Error_404> la la la
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[00:31:18] * dlg grumble
[00:33:38] <Error_404> ?
[00:34:13] <dlg> can anyone look at a driver for me?
[00:34:38] <dlg> for a scsi hba
[00:34:47] <alanc> gisburn: pong
[00:39:25] <Error_404> he's gone man
[00:39:26] <Error_404> let it go
[00:39:46] <alanc> oh, oops
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[00:58:49] <BoyinCode> hi, i just installed solaris 10, i missed to complete Xorg or gnome to install. how can i reinstall Xorg or Gnome (i have 5 cds ).
[01:02:42] <tsoome> you can add pkgs manually or do an upgrade
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[01:04:11] <BoyinCode> tsoome: pkgs command ! where can i find that gnome is located!
[01:04:49] <tsoome> its quite many pkgs....
[01:04:55] <stevel> pkgadd the SUNWgnome* packages!
[01:05:26] <tsoome> I guess even then something could be missing...
[01:05:41] <stevel> probably, but that should at least start you down the long road of package dependency hell
[01:05:42] <tsoome> I would go for an upgrade
[01:05:46] * stevel nods
[01:05:51] <stevel> that would probably be easier
[01:05:59] <Gman> i could probably provide an install script
[01:06:14] <Gman> [would be a bit of a pain though]
[01:06:16] <BoyinCode> stevel: how i can do that useing my 5 cds ! i am in my root#
[01:07:30] <BoyinCode> like in freebsd i had , /usr/ports/x11/gnome2 , and make install clean , does all the rest. is there anything like that.
[01:07:31] <stevel> well, first you should stop being so excited :) and then go stick your first CD in and boot off it and select upgrade
[01:08:16] <stevel> gman: snv_52 still has the old gnome 2.14 bits right?  does 2.16 go into snv_53?
[01:08:23] <Gman> yeah
[01:08:30] <Gman> snv53 will rock hard
[01:08:58] * stevel is looking forward to trying it out.
[01:09:15] <stevel> if i have snv_51 and manually plopped on the vermillion_52 packages, liveupgrade should still work to 53 right?
[01:09:22] <Gman> yep
[01:09:29] <Gman> more or less the same package set
[01:09:33] <stevel> excellent
[01:09:38] <myrkraverk> any Xpert here?
[01:09:57] * alanc hides
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[01:10:20] * stevel points at alanc's hiding spot
[01:10:34] <elektronkind> What would really be nice is if pkgadd/pkgrm understood .clustertoc and allow you to add/remove pacakges by cluster name.
[01:10:41] <myrkraverk> I wanted to configure xkb in xorg.conf - what I wanted to do doesn't work and I get (==) XKB: CustomKeycode disabled
[01:10:50] <myrkraverk> is there a way to "enable" that?
[01:10:59] <myrkraverk> does anyone know what it means?
[01:11:08] <alanc> I don't know - I've never seen that before
[01:12:04] <myrkraverk> alanc: I am trying to do similar stuff to ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/unix/X11/FTP.X.ORG/pub/X11R7.0/doc/html/XKB-Config2.html#4 -- isn't it supposed to work?
[01:12:29] <alanc> oh sure, xkb is supposed to work
[01:12:44] <BoyinCode> how can i change my shell promt which is "#" to "[/dev/pts/1]PVX SWITCH:/ #" !
[01:12:57] <sommerfeld> ah yes, xkb: the technology which let my cat DoS my laptop..
[01:13:07] <alanc> ah, multilayouts - never tried those myself
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[01:14:01] <alanc> your cat had less problems enabling accessibility than many of our testers do
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[01:14:54] <sommerfeld> it started out in some mode where if you held down a modifier key for something like 10s it enabled slow keys and then popped up a dialogue box asking if you wanted to enable slow keys.
[01:15:18] <sommerfeld> from that point, all the cat had to do was park himself on the keyboard
[01:15:20] <alanc> hmm, I have (==) Keyboard: CustomKeycode disabled in my xorg.conf without any xkb settings, so I think that's just a default message and nothing to do with your config
[01:15:33] <myrkraverk> alanc: ok, lets hope ;)
[01:15:48] <sommerfeld> oddly, when it started beeping continuously he didn't run away
[01:16:18] <alanc> that's the accessibility gestures, which I thought were only on if accessibility was turned on in the JDS keyboard control panel
[01:16:33] <sommerfeld> and, of course, because the screen was locked, the slow keys dialogue box wasn't visible.
[01:16:42] <sommerfeld> i'm not sure how that got enabled.
[01:17:29] <gdamore> this is probably why "ssh" should be enabled by default. :-)
[01:17:31] <alanc> yeah - I keep meaning to respond that the slows keys dialogue is probably a bug in the gnome accessibility code not marking it as one of the accessibility windows that's allowed to pop up in front of the screen saver
[01:17:52] <alanc> or why I should fix the bug that ctrl-alt-backspace doesn't work in some configs
[01:18:06] <alanc> but who has time for bugs?
[01:18:07] <gdamore> ?!?
[01:18:24] <gdamore> i've never seen such a config where it did not work, at least not on x86.
[01:19:03] <alanc> sadly I have, as have others
[01:20:01] <BoyinCode> in freebsd, #sysinstall used to update. what is command for solaris like sysinstall!
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[01:21:08] <sommerfeld> gdamore: it is enabled.  but, well, so is the ipsec tunnel.
[01:22:32] <myrkraverk> ok, I got something I can live with (xkb) - not what I originally tryed, but I'll live ;)
[01:23:27] <myrkraverk> (which means my laptop is getting more usable with Icelandic than the fedora crap I have on this box)
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[01:25:09] <myrkraverk> alanc: just a question, with xkb, which is the default rule set? xorg or sun?
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[01:25:26] <myrkraverk> alanc: do you know?
[01:26:24] <blueandwhiteg3> I'm considering setting myself up with an install here... can anybody comment about audio support under x86? in particularly, 5.1 audio out?
[01:26:53] <blueandwhiteg3> it works under linux great, ALSA, but by the name, i doubt that project translates over directly
[01:26:58] <myrkraverk> blueandwhiteg3: no, I've yet to deal with audio mysel, but try asking in 1 or 2 weeks ;P
[01:27:22] <myrkraverk> (I'm not sure my laptop has 5.1 out though)
[01:27:31] <blueandwhiteg3> anybody else know?
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[01:29:19] <myrkraverk> alanc: just one more question: do you know what to read if I want to add a dvorak variant of the icelandic layout? (I don't think there is on)
[01:30:04] <rydis> C-M-Backspace killing the server is a great annoyance to have on by default, IMO. It's an eminently intuitive keybinding in Emacs, and it kind of sucks to zap the server rather than just the previous sexp... (Yeah. I've done it by accident a lot of times.)
[01:30:18] <alanc> I'd start with http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig
[01:30:26] <myrkraverk> alanc: thanks
[01:30:47] <alanc> oh, you want annoying?   the other bug is one where it doesn't require alt, so ctrl-backspace kills your server
[01:30:52] <myrkraverk> rydis: so why don't you disable it? I read somewhere how to do that, but I don't recall the specifics
[01:31:32] <myrkraverk> rydis: for what it's worth, I try to not have alt == meta ;)
[01:31:35] <blueandwhiteg3> Another question... i810 graphics drivers and xvideo support?
[01:31:40] <blueandwhiteg3> anybody ever experiment with that?
[01:31:45] <blueandwhiteg3> it works under linux
[01:31:54] <rydis> I disable it on my machines, of course. I don't use Emacs on only my machines, though. :)
[01:31:56] <myrkraverk> blueandwhiteg3: not I, I have nvidia here (solaris)
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[01:32:03] <myrkraverk> rydis: ah
[01:32:07] <rydis> alanc: That sounds a bit harsher, yes. :)
[01:32:45] <alanc> blueandwhiteg3: should work about the same under solaris then, though we're still at the Xorg 6.9 version of i810
[01:33:04] <alanc> but when nv_52 comes out, i810 will have DRI support
[01:33:05] <blueandwhiteg3> but i can build and install a newer version?
[01:33:12] <blueandwhiteg3> of i810
[01:33:27] <alanc> you'ld have to build a newer version of the Xserver too - the newer drivers won't run with 6.9
[01:33:29] <myrkraverk> alanc: what about nvidia? does that depend on them?
[01:33:30] <blueandwhiteg3> even under FC6, I had to do that, due to various long standing bugs in their implementation of XVideo support
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[01:33:45] <blueandwhiteg3> hmm a new xserver, sounds like fun, not
[01:34:05] <alanc> nvidia should work fine with the nvidia closed-source driver installed
[01:34:31] <blueandwhiteg3> i don't have an nvidia card
[01:34:40] <alanc> other than missing DRI, Solaris Xorg is pretty close to what you get in any Linux distro shipping 6.9
[01:35:05] <myrkraverk> alanc: I mean with DRI ?
[01:36:05] <blueandwhiteg3> i may need to inquire on the xorg mailing list about this... perhaps somebody has contrived a patch
[01:36:29] <myrkraverk> alanc: or was that your answer?
[01:36:30] <blueandwhiteg3> i just want working hd-resolution xvideo playback, which was borked for a whole host of stupid reasons in earlier version of i810
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[01:36:42] * myrkraverk knows too little about X, drivers and stuff
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[01:39:40] <Axposf> hi all
[01:42:55] <myrkraverk> alanc: I just found a bug in the dvorak us layout, do you know what file to change or how to fix that? (it fails to set, aparently, the \ key)
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[01:47:03] <myrkraverk> hmm, either alanc doesn't know or is firmly in hiding ;)
[01:49:13] <Axposf> :)
[01:49:22] <Error_404> if there's a bug, file it
[01:49:47] <myrkraverk> Error_404: usually, I like to *fix* bugs, rather than filing them ;)
[01:50:13] <myrkraverk> Error_404: and with snv_52 using a later xorg, I want to try that before filing any bug
[01:52:42] <Error_404> part of the bugreport form is a checkbox "do you want to work on this bug"
[01:52:50] <Error_404> if you wanna fix it, do it
[01:54:48] <myrkraverk> Error_404: it's not that I don't wont to report a bug, but right now, I'd rather spend some minutes to find out if I cant fix it in a jiffy
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[02:03:30] <twincest> hmm, i think i found a studio C++ compiler bug
[02:04:13] <Error_404> what is it, "let's make up bugs" day?
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[02:05:15] <myrkraverk> ;)
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[02:08:37] <twincest> if anyone wants to check before i post to the forums, the code's here: http://itanic.attenuate.org/~river/temp.cc
[02:08:50] <twincest> when run it should print "in A::foo, i = 42" but it actually prints nothing
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[02:16:12] <alanc> myrkraverk: sorry - I got pulled down the hall to help someone with their Xorg config
[02:16:40] <alanc> the file would be under /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb somewhere - not sure which one
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[02:17:22] <jmcp> morning all
[02:18:37] <jbk> evening :)
[02:19:12] <Axposf> hi jmcp
[02:19:47] <twincest> hmm now i found a bug in forum.sun.com as well :P
[02:19:48] <jmcp> hi Axposf
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[02:43:39] <Plaidrab> If going from an essentially clean ( not even patched ) Sol10 install to Nevada, should I do an initial or is an upgrade fine?
[02:44:09] <gisburn> initial please
[02:44:36] <Plaidrab> danke
[02:45:07] <gisburn> Plaidrab: nevada is more or less work in progress and there is no gurantee that an update will work or eat your data or send it to russia's FSB for further evaluation, including a termination request.
[02:45:09] <Plaidrab> I expect I'll be pushing my luck on this u5 anyhow. :)
[02:45:18] <gisburn> nah
[02:45:25] * gisburn builds on an Ultra5, too.
[02:45:33] <Plaidrab> Im not so concerned about the FSB.
[02:45:42] <gisburn> Plaidrab: really ?
[02:45:53] <gisburn> Plaidrab: I thing we can change that...
[02:45:54] <Plaidrab> You have more than 256M in yours?
[02:45:55] <gisburn> =:-)
[02:45:57] <Plaidrab> :)
[02:45:58] <gisburn> no.
[02:46:01] <gisburn> 256MB
[02:46:11] <Plaidrab> Ah, well, I should be safe then.
[02:46:30] <Plaidrab> To be honest, I've never really burned in this one much. I have no idea how stable it is. :)
[02:46:31] <gisburn> The graphical installer will not like you.
[02:46:46] <gisburn> B48 seems to be rock-solid except ZFS.
[02:48:04] <Plaidrab> Should I do That's okay. I've spent the last week rebuilding a 280 with 8 disks over and over again. :)
[02:48:28] <Plaidrab> If I want to build, do I need the +OEM insall or is full adequate?
[02:48:32] <Stric> gisburn: I have a machine in production on ZFS+b48
[02:49:06] <Plaidrab> 8=Sol8
[02:50:01] <gisburn> Stric: and I have huge problems with ZFS and building OS/Net on it or using it has NFS server.
[02:50:34] <gisburn> Stric: builidng OS/Net on ZFS causes excessive paging to the point where the machine becomes unuseable for interactive use
[02:51:02] <Stric> gisburn: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=18394&tstart=15 <- my issues
[02:51:09] <gisburn> Stric: and as NFS server the NFS mount behaves like going over a cross-continental 10base2 link
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[02:51:27] <Plaidrab> TCP over Carrier Pidgeon?
[02:51:38] <Stric> gisburn: I get about 20-30MB/s now at least.. with loads of parallel reads
[02:51:43] <myrkraverk> alanc: I found it
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[02:52:13] <alanc> gisburn: you wanted something earlier?
[02:52:27] <myrkraverk> alanc: and I've fixed it, *now* I'm ready to do the bug report ;)
[02:52:43] <Xaero_Vincent> Is there any solution for 3D with ATI cards in Solaris?
[02:52:49] <Plaidrab> Mostly I'm installing this to get Scribus and Abiword building on Solaris. I used to do that when I worked a job that let me have compilers. Current employer is a tad stricter. :)
[02:53:16] <myrkraverk> Xaero_Vincent: yes, probably xig
[02:53:23] <alanc> buy a copy of XiG's accelerated X, port DRI for ATI, or poke ATI to port fglrx to Solaris
[02:53:51] <Plaidrab> Be happy you're not on a Creator3d?
[02:53:52] <alanc> ^poke ATI^poke AMD
[02:54:18] <Stric> alanc: DAAMIT :)
[02:54:34] <Xaero_Vincent> ok well.. drivers on solaris wouldnt be that difficult since the ABI rarely changes, correct?
[02:54:36] <gisburn> alanc: I remeber what you said yesterday about disbanding the project... maybe you're right. I am now trying a different direction...
[02:55:06] <Plaidrab> If folks follow the coding rules, Xaero, no, it's very upwards compatible.
[02:55:14] <Plaidrab> Problem is, that's not done as much as it should.
[02:55:19] <gisburn> alanc: but I really wish the OS/Net rules would allow to treat the "getconf" issue as bug which can be fixed later.
[02:55:26] <alanc> good
[02:55:43] <myrkraverk> alanc: in the latest xorg (I assume you have it handy) is there a BKSL line in the dvorak section of /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/us ?
[02:56:04] <alanc> yeah, that's part of ON's "FCS Quality All the Time" philosophy
[02:56:09] <Xaero_Vincent> has anyone ever though of doing a no discloser agreement with ATI and port them to OpenSolaris, while not releasing the code.
[02:56:11] <Xaero_Vincent> ?
[02:56:12] <myrkraverk> alanc: and 2) if not, should I bug sun, or xorg or both?
[02:56:28] <gisburn> alanc: at the price that we're running in circles since june.
[02:57:05] <vertigo_> hello! is there documentation available on the structure of the solaris kernel, something like a kernel programming guide with an overview of the api's etc?
[02:57:09] <alanc> myrkraverk: probably both
[02:57:22] <alanc> well, the xkeyboard-config project which maintains xorg's xkb files now
[02:58:49] <alanc> I don't have a copy of their latest source present
[02:59:36] <gisburn> ahhh... the joys of modularisation!
[02:59:48] <alanc> I don't see one in the us symbols in their cvsweb tree
[03:00:08] <alanc> gisburn: yes!   absolute joy!   I have no xkb data files in my tree anymore!
[03:00:14] <Plaidrab> :)
[03:00:25] <alanc> all the XKB layouts are now officially Someone Else's Problem!
[03:00:53] <alanc> and the localization folks are happy to have them all to themselves and not have to go through us everytime they want to make a change
[03:01:05] <myrkraverk> alanc: ok, but if I bug sun, and submit a patch, will you pull it in, or will you wait for xorg/someone-else ?
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[03:01:30] <gisburn> yes yes... and the tree gets out of sync more and more.
[03:01:35] <alanc> I'll pass it to the localization teams who I think will apply directly without waiting for xorg
[03:01:51] <myrkraverk> alanc: ok, then I'll bug everyone I can find ;)
[03:02:06] <clee> alanc: isn't it nice? especially since xkb is currently daniels' problem :)
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[03:02:37] * clee still doesn't understand why so many people were so anti-modularization at first
[03:02:42] <alanc> given what xkb-config is doing to the xkb layouts, I'm not sure I mind being out of sync - saves having to deal with user complaints that their old layouts got renamed
[03:02:49] <gisburn> The interesting thing is that the bsd people now use the modularised tree and created a wrapper to make it behave like the old one.
[03:02:54] <alanc> but again, not my headache to figure out
[03:03:09] <clee> well, yeah, exactly - that's the thing. for people who *want* a monolithic-style tree, it's really not hard to make one out of the little bits
[03:03:20] <Plaidrab> Now I'm getting all nostalgic. heh
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[03:04:12] <Plaidrab> Do they still have that dev program with the freeish u80 with a 3 year service?
[03:04:39] <alanc> u80?  that would be nostalgic - haven't sold those in years
[03:04:51] <Plaidrab> Wasn't it a u80?
[03:04:59] <twincest> i think you mean U20
[03:05:02] <jmcp> vertigo_: have you read the "Writing Device Drivers" guide on docs.sun.com ?
[03:05:03] <Plaidrab> It was just last year I looked at it.
[03:05:06] <alanc> Ultra 80 was the old 4 CPU UltraSPARC II
[03:05:17] <alanc> you probably mean Ultra 20 or Ultra 40, the new AMD machines
[03:05:24] <alanc> go go marketing name confusion!
[03:05:36] <Plaidrab> I'm pretty usre it was a recycled model number, but was a AMD box.
[03:05:53] <Plaidrab> Not very pretty, like the Excaliburs were.
[03:06:22] <vertigo_> jmcp: just reading it, great intro
[03:06:48] <Plaidrab> Hmm. I'm sure you're right though. My brain is soup for Sun's real model numbers. I've always done better with the premarket codenames
[03:06:53] <jmcp> vertigo_: it's what SunU bases their device drivers course on
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[03:07:50] <Plaidrab> I miss SunU.
[03:08:22] <alanc> looks like that offer ended: http://www.sun.com/emrkt/freeopteronworkstation/overview.html
[03:08:31] <Plaidrab> Ah well.
[03:08:44] * gisburn wishes sun would ship *SPARC* workstations.
[03:08:46] <Plaidrab> I'd rather have an old U60 or 80 anyway. Greymarket, here I come.
[03:08:49] <gisburn> *SPARC*
[03:08:53] <gisburn> grrr
[03:08:56] <Plaidrab> I wish they still did, yeah.
[03:09:05] <gisburn> Plaidrab: how much dou you want to pay ?
[03:09:06] <Plaidrab> Though the Sunblade on my desk at work is a little anemic.
[03:09:21] <Plaidrab> Right now, not very much. Probably less than it would cost to ship.
[03:09:22] <alanc> 2 new SPARC workstations went on sale this year - the Ultra 25 & Ultra 45
[03:09:36] <Plaidrab> Oooh. Now I miss my discount. :)
[03:09:37] <gisburn> Plaidrab: I can point you to a 280euro Blade1000
[03:09:56] <Plaidrab> Ooooh.,
[03:10:01] <Plaidrab> If I could find that stateside.
[03:10:01] <alanc> http://www.sun.com/desktop/index.jsp?tab=0&stab=2
[03:10:06] <Axposf> vertigo_, "www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/docs/ " ?
[03:10:16] <Plaidrab> 1000s were SCSI or IDE?
[03:10:21] <gisburn> SCSI
[03:10:22] <Plaidrab> I never got to open one
[03:10:33] <Stric> 1000s were FCAL
[03:10:34] <Plaidrab> They were just shipping when I was RIFFed.
[03:10:35] <dlg> i thought the 1000s were fibre
[03:10:46] <gisburn> Plaidrab: if you sweap by satan himself only to take ONE I can give you the URL, Ok ?
[03:10:57] <gisburn> Plaidrab: I need two for the ksh93-integration project-
[03:11:23] <Plaidrab> I can't do that now anyway, gisburn. Plus, USAn, I expect shipping would kill me
[03:11:41] <vertigo_> Axposf: thanks, overlooked that one
[03:11:47] <myrkraverk> alanc: erm, where should I report bugs at sun/opensolaris?
[03:11:56] <alanc> bugs.opensolaris.org
[03:11:57] <stevel> plaidrab: anysystem.com has a sunblade 1000 sale
[03:12:06] <stevel> http://www.anysystem.com/sunblade-1000-sale.html
[03:12:16] <alanc> and I apologize in advance
[03:12:30] <gisburn> Plaidrab: I am in germany... does that help somehw ?
[03:12:47] <Plaidrab> Well, you priced it in Euros, so I expected your source was Euro
[03:12:50] <alanc> "they're" working on improving the bug interface (not that I've ever quite known who "they" are)
[03:13:17] <stevel> alanc: "they" don't like to come out into the sunlight apparently
[03:13:20] <Plaidrab> thanks Stevel
[03:13:39] <gisburn> alanc: the honored elders of sun who are summoning the very dark right now to get bugs.opensolaris.org fixed!
[03:13:58] <alanc> the dark is here now
[03:14:05] <Plaidrab> Oh! in SCA21?
[03:14:09] <alanc> early winter sunsets
[03:14:35] <gisburn> The dark is coming...
[03:14:38] <gisburn> after *YOU*
[03:15:05] <gisburn> <insert blooddripping nhalloween joke here>
[03:16:35] <Plaidrab> Does SRS4.0 run on Nevada?
[03:16:57] <alanc> Sun Ray?   yeah - a bunch of internal sites run it
[03:17:45] <gisburn> alanc: will s11/fcs still ship with Xsun on x86 ?
[03:17:52] <Plaidrab> Thinking of putting a couple of dtus in the house next year.
[03:17:53] <alanc> TBD
[03:18:00] * gisburn has trouble with Xorg and nevada
[03:18:04] <gisburn> alanc: ?!
[03:18:09] <alanc> then report bugs
[03:18:24] <gisburn> TBD=Tentacle Bug Droppings ?
[03:18:31] <alanc> To Be Determined
[03:18:35] <gisburn> ok
[03:19:07] <Plaidrab> I seen sb1000 with 2gb for $200 ... yeek
[03:19:16] <alanc> I'm probably going to regret posting this here, but ... http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2006/641/
[03:19:21] <alanc> "Xsun Obsolescence / EOF Announcement"
[03:19:38] <alanc> closed approved fast-track 11/15/2006
[03:19:59] <Stric> so that means Creator3d is dead for instance?
[03:20:04] <alanc> no
[03:20:43] <alanc> it means that the release notes will simply contain a warning that "The Xsun server may not be included in a future release of Solaris."
[03:21:00] <alanc> which future release that will be has not yet been determined
[03:21:09] * gisburn sharpens his komodo dragon's teeth
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[03:21:52] <alanc> and if you go read the link it specifically says basically "sometime after Sun Ray and SPARC are ported off Xsun"
[03:22:26] <alanc> someday Creator3D will die, just as all the older graphics have died - we just don't know when yet
[03:22:29] <Plaidrab> I'll go and guess around Sol12
[03:22:46] <Plaidrab> No point in bringing facts in. :)
[03:23:29] <dunc> is there a nice way to unlock an account but leave it as an impossible entry in shadow rather than no password?
[03:23:42] <alanc> cg6 currently has the top spot on the most endangered graphics species list
[03:23:46] <dunc> i only want ssh keyed access
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[03:24:10] <stevel> disable PasswordAuthentication in ssh?
[03:24:27] <stevel> and disable every other method of remote access to your box
[03:25:20] <dunc> i do already, i'd still rather not have an empty password when i unlock an account though
[03:25:35] <stevel> set it to something random then
[03:25:38] <Plaidrab> password -f account
[03:25:54] <Plaidrab> well, passwd -f :)
[03:25:57] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away
[03:26:00] <myrkraverk> alanc: I've just reported the bug
[03:26:04] <myrkraverk> oh, he's gone
[03:26:05] <stevel> does that work? if you expire the password will ssh still let you in?
[03:26:13] <myrkraverk> now, what should I do with the patch?
[03:26:25] <Plaidrab> IIRC, it still forces a password change
[03:26:40] <alanc-away> myrkraverk: send it to alanc at sun dot com and I'll attach it to the bug report, since the bugs web page won't let you do that yet
[03:26:54] <Plaidrab> It passes you to the shell which insists, then changes then kicks you back out to log again
[03:26:55] <myrkraverk> alanc-away: ok, thanks
[03:27:08] <Plaidrab> Well, Tectia does. Open may behave deifferently
[03:27:12] <dunc> in the past for jumpstarts i've just sedded *LK* to * for each user i added and ran pwconv, but i wondered if there was a nice way yet
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[03:27:26] * alanc-away really leaves now
[03:28:00] <Plaidrab> We did a -d then a -f, but we wanted blank initialization in our case.
[03:28:25] <dunc> yeah ok
[03:28:33] <dunc> we just want never passwd auth ever
[03:28:36] <myrkraverk> alanc: airborn
[03:28:45] <Axposf> bye all :-)
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[03:29:14] <Plaidrab> okay, I'm confused. What are you trying to do, exactly?
[03:29:54] <Plaidrab> You want to allow logins but not use "files" for auth?
[03:30:21] <dunc> i only ever want ssh keyed access
[03:30:41] <dunc> but a locked account doesn't allow ssh by keys in either
[03:31:07] <Plaidrab> Sounds like you jjust need to preissue the keys and then not give them the password.
[03:31:33] <Plaidrab> I'm not sure if you can require keys *also* But I don't really work with OpenSSH
[03:32:27] <jbk> i thought you could set the passwd to NP and it'd be ok
[03:32:34] <jbk> though i can't remember which flag did that
[03:32:43] <Plaidrab> I don't think NP allows logins.
[03:33:15] <jbk> well i think what happens is passwd auth fails, but authorization does not
[03:33:29] <Plaidrab> Maybe RBAC could help here?
[03:33:32] <jbk> which would allow ssh keys to work
[03:34:07] <Plaidrab> Sounds like experiment time.
[03:34:12] <jbk> i seem to remember someone using it to automate integrity checking of files on multiple systems
[03:34:25] <jbk> i'm having a brain fart what it's called in solaris 10
[03:34:39] <Plaidrab> You're not talking about JASS?
[03:34:44] <jbk> no
[03:35:20] <dunc> a * in the password field in shadow is fine to stop passwd logins, but have an unlocked account
[03:35:33] <Plaidrab> I think I misread ya.
[03:35:39] <dunc> or !! or whatever
[03:35:44] <dunc> only *LK* means locked
[03:36:59] <dunc> what it is, my mate did a nice modular adduser script, with different functions per OS, and i thought i'd do the solaris version, but so far haven't found any nice way to do it with commands
[03:37:19] <dunc> picking something random would do i suppose, but i'd rather just have none
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[03:37:37] <jbk> I'd try the NP route
[03:37:40] <Plaidrab> right0
[03:37:41] <dunc> sed and pwconv it is then by the looks of things
[03:37:46] <dunc> which is shit
[03:37:47] <jbk> at least if you talking sol10+
[03:37:56] <Plaidrab> passwd -d will blank the passwd.
[03:38:05] <dunc> sorry jbk, what do u mean NP ?
[03:38:39] <jbk> are you running solaris 10 (or newer)?
[03:38:44] <dunc> y
[03:39:01] <jbk> there is a flag to passwd that will stick 'NP' in /etc/shadow
[03:39:08] <dunc> ah ha!
[03:39:17] <dunc> that's what i'm after yes :)
[03:39:22] <jbk> and i beleive that will prevent password logins, but still allow things like ssh keys to work
[03:39:27] <jbk> i just can't think of the exact flag
[03:39:41] <Plaidrab> Man will have it. :)
[03:39:58] <dunc> oh hmm, i dunno
[03:40:05] <dunc> NP       This account has no password and is
[03:40:06] <dunc>                               therefore  open without authentica-
[03:40:06] <dunc>                               tion.
[03:40:16] <dunc> that's pretty much the opposite of what i want
[03:40:47] <jbk> try it and see if it actually allow you to login
[03:41:33] <dunc>     -N              Makes the password entry for  name  a  value
[03:41:33] <dunc>                      that  cannot be used for login, but does not
[03:41:33] <dunc>                      lock the account.  See  the  -d  option  for
[03:41:33] <dunc>                      removing  the value, or to set a password to
[03:41:33] <dunc>                      allow logins.
[03:41:43] <dunc> that's exactly it, thanks folks
[03:41:58] * dunc will look harder next time :)
[03:42:10] <hile_> oh for pete's sake please pastebin things like that
[03:42:35] <elektronkind> <hile_> oh for pete's sake please pastebin things like that
[03:43:46] <dunc> erm ok sorry, it's hardly busy here right now though
[03:44:43] <elektronkind> feh
[03:45:17] <elektronkind> s10 11/06 wont be out for... maybe up to a month from now.
[03:45:36] * elektronkind just wants its darn zfs patches
[03:50:50] <Doc> hmm.. for every website i access in the sun.com domain, i send 1209 bytes of cookies
[03:52:22] <jmcp> dunc: not the point
[03:52:27] <jmcp> dunc: we're talking about etiquette
[03:53:47] <Doc> 11/06 should be out in less than a month
[03:54:02] <Doc> but it wont hit 11/06.. so that gives you a fairly small range to work with :)
[03:56:31] <dunc> ok sorry jmcp
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[04:03:38] <Error_404> anyone know the status of -nd closed bins for build 52?
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[04:09:33] <jmcp> dunc: you'll get the hang of it soon enough
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[04:46:01] <Plaidrab> So what's the update process in OpenSol? Patch clusters? Build it yourself bundles? pixiedust?
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[04:46:58] <Error_404> you can liveupgrade, you can BFU
[04:47:11] <Error_404> build it yourself or use prebuilt packages
[04:47:17] <Error_404> the choices are endless
[04:47:28] <Plaidrab> Liveupgrade and I don't precisely get along. It fails to oft.
[04:47:34] <Error_404> (actually the choices are about 5, but we won't talk about that)
[04:47:41] <Error_404> i just bfu
[04:48:21] <Plaidrab> To be honest, I'm not terribly keen on building it myself. Not averse to doing it, I just don't consider it a measure of my masculinity how hard it was to do something. :)
[04:49:09] <Error_404> only reason I do is -nd
[04:49:35] <Error_404> if there were non-debug BFU archives, i'd just use that
[04:50:18] <Plaidrab> Righto
[04:50:41] <Plaidrab> Is QT and/or KDE known to build reliably at this point?
[04:50:54] <Error_404> beats me
[04:51:12] <Plaidrab> I guess I will find out
[04:51:35] <Error_404> I don't see why they wouldn't
[04:52:11] <Plaidrab> I've never tried on any Solaris, so I dunno.:)
[04:53:04] <Plaidrab> Should be... interesting
[04:53:54] <elektronkind> and fun for the entire family
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[04:55:10] <Error_404> blastwave/SFW doesn't have qt packages?
[04:56:08] <Triskelios> the companion CD has Qt and KDE, probably a year old though
[04:56:15] <Triskelios> er, companion DVD
[04:56:45] <Plaidrab> I'm pretty sure i'd need more current that that
[04:56:52] <Plaidrab> What's Blastwave?
[04:57:49] <jbk> www.blastwave.org
[04:57:55] <Triskelios> the major third-party software repository
[04:58:56] <Error_404> the guy who runs it hangs out here
[04:59:05] <Error_404> though he's apparantly fallen off the face of the earth
[04:59:31] <Plaidrab> I was gonna ask if SunFreeware had a category
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[04:59:59] <steleman> gisburn: ping!
[05:00:03] <boyd> I've never had LU fail
[05:00:30] <MikeE> boyd: so you're new to BU?
[05:00:34] <MikeE> (LU)
[05:01:14] <boyd> Yes, I've only been using it since Sol 8
[05:09:37] <boyd> When someone says "xys is being tracked as RFE 123456" is there any way to get information other than "we should xvz" ? Such as progress?
[05:10:18] <MikeE> I'm just kidding.... its cool technology, but if you're running in a shop that has 3rd party stuff (caugh caugh Veritas) in there, LU becomes dicey very quickly.
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[05:10:40] <boyd> IIRc Veritas has got better behavied with lu recently
[05:10:46] <boyd> s/vie/ve
[05:10:55] <jbk> you have to be careful how your rootdisk is setup
[05:11:10] <jbk> if you're using veritas to encapsulate
[05:11:13] <boyd> As always with VxVM
[05:11:15] <MikeE> better, but still pretty rough... you now at least have the ability to un-encapsulate/demirror yourself...
[05:11:18] <MikeE> Yep...
[05:11:41] <jbk> actually you can do it without doing that, but order is key
[05:11:42] <MikeE> counting the days to ZFs on root-fs.... I HATE encapsulation... both vxvm and SDS for that matter...
[05:11:51] <jbk> yes
[05:12:03] <jbk> that's probably the single biggest thing keeping us from using zfs
[05:12:06] * boyd is surprised that he's changed his position on mirroring root in recent years... was VxVM now SVM
[05:12:11] <MikeE> boyd:: and thats asuming you have enough slices...
[05:12:19] <Plaidrab> We weren't using volume management, just straight slices.
[05:12:32] <MikeE> MikeE is now also SDS on boot disk... due to auto-sds jumpstart-capabilities
[05:12:34] <boyd> MikeE: Well, one has to plan
[05:12:40] <Plaidrab> Admittedly, it's not what lu was designed for either, but failing to is the suck.
[05:13:25] <MikeE> boyd: problem is that when you acquire business units/other corps tech... LU fits only a small subset due to its heavy requirements
[05:13:42] <boyd> Plaidrab: Not designed for what?
[05:13:47] <Plaidrab> And the Boss isn't a Solaris guy. He's a "tools I've had to learn to do the job" guy, so if something breaks, even though it's cause he used it wrong, he refuses to let it be used again
[05:13:52] <MikeE> Plaidrab // so no mirrors heh?
[05:13:57] <Plaidrab> Being used as a disk backup solution
[05:14:49] * boyd waits with bated breath for LU + ZFS root
[05:14:54] <MikeE> problem is right now (at least in the jsut about all the sparc space) you HAVE to use some sort of software mirroring to provide disk mirroring... no way around it.... (unless you want to REBUILD from scraped...
[05:14:55] <dlg> format> current
[05:14:56] <dlg> Current Disk = c3t0d0
[05:14:56] <dlg> <DELL-PERC 5/E Adapter-1.00-5.45TB>
[05:14:56] <dlg> /pci@0,0/pci8086,3599@6/pci8086,370@0/pci1028,1f01@e/sd@0,0
[05:14:59] * dlg giggle
[05:15:10] <Plaidrab> Years before I got the job, they f**ked up breaking the mirrors badly once. Did it manually. No Meta-detatch. But it was "SDS fault" so they refuse to use volume management and instead take a nightly snapsop to a bottable mirror that is currently made with LU.
[05:15:13] <MikeE> yep, LU + zfs-root (with snapshot action!!!) is whats its all about
[05:15:35] <MikeE> did I say SPARC somewhere... wait I did....
[05:15:42] <MikeE> :-) sorry... long day at work...
[05:15:43] <Plaidrab> We'll probably never have zfs
[05:15:48] <boyd> Plaidrab: Oh for f@#$% sake
[05:16:05] <MikeE> even if you decide you don't like zfs for your database.... put zfs on the root when its ready and make your life easier....
[05:16:05] <jbk> Plaidrab: hard to argue with free, especially with veritas's licensing hell
[05:16:08] <Plaidrab> I wanna strangle him about once a week.
[05:16:18] <MikeE> he needs to be punished...
[05:16:29] <Plaidrab> We have third party products we're requierd to use that *STILL* don't work on 9 yet
[05:16:40] <jbk> well
[05:16:45] <MikeE> those are the best... (we have them too... sighh...)
[05:16:57] <boyd> Don't work, or aren't supported?
[05:17:03] <jbk> there will come a time where the only place you'll be able to buy new hardware taht runs solaris 8 is on ebay
[05:17:06] <Plaidrab> Some of each
[05:17:06] <MikeE> did someone say clearcase?
[05:17:23] <MikeE> jbk: that time is very soon...
[05:17:30] <MikeE> 2 months or so I think...
[05:17:47] <jbk> well i don't know if i can say the date
[05:18:03] <jbk> but it's obvious that it'll happen
[05:18:06] <MikeE> if you just look at the product roadmap, it should be clear...
[05:18:12] <MikeE> PCI-E.... (needs 9)
[05:18:19] <Plaidrab> We recently did our "techrefresh" All the way to 240s. *sigh*
[05:18:28] <MikeE> anything faster than 1.35... needs 9...
[05:18:36] <jbk> yeah
[05:18:43] <MikeE> Hmmm... whats that leave.... not so much....
[05:19:24] <boyd> How do they manage to make it not work on 9? Kernel modules like that domino abomination?
[05:19:27] <MikeE> 440 is probably about the last of the mohekans able to run 8.... and who knows how long that is going to continue with the 445 already here...
[05:19:41] <MikeE> boyd // did I mention clearcase?
[05:20:00] <MikeE> virtual filesystems that hook into unstable/unsupported kernel structures...
[05:20:01] <Plaidrab> Mostly things that don't play by the ABI rules properly
[05:20:15] <MikeE> took them over a year to make it work on 10 in the global.... (forget about the locals...)
[05:20:32] <jbk> i expect disaster here... we still have a bunch of homegrown apps where they claim it'll take literally 'billions of hours of work' to move the code (which is bullshit)
[05:20:37] * boyd wonders why clearcase wasn't implemented as an NFS server. Would have been more portable too.
[05:21:14] <MikeE> boyd // 2 pieces to clearcase... 1 is the store... (done as NFS)... the other piece is this funkied up virtual-point-in-time time-travel filesystem...
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[05:21:44] <MikeE> its actually kinda cool... some developer game me 3-sec tour.... too bad they couldn't make it play by the rules so it'd be portable
[05:21:53] <boyd> MikeE: Yeah, but they could have made them both NFS servers, I'd say
[05:22:15] <MikeE> (not sure if you could do virtual NFS-type time-traveler filesystems)
[05:22:40] <MikeE> certainly tying iwht with massive ZFS snapshot / hint-of-CDP would have been very cool...
[05:22:40] * boyd saw an open source clone presentation at a conf a few years back. Don't know what happened to it
[05:22:57] <boyd> I don't see why not... it's just as if someone else has been changing the FS
[05:23:11] <elektronkind> what is it with solaris's vfs layer being a moving target, anyway
[05:23:12] <MikeE> think of what you could do with some sort of CVS + ZFS-snapshot-all-the-time/CDP type implementation for developer types....
[05:23:42] <MikeE> (but I'll take ZFS-rootability over that :-)
[05:24:27] <MikeE> the other downside of clearcase and their borked-up virtual FS is that it would be AWESOME for developers in local zones.... take a t2000, chop it up 50-ways, give each developer root in their local zone and some view into the clearcase deal.
[05:24:36] <Xaero_Vincent> Is it possible to get the latest Wine (0.9.25) working in OpenSolaris ?
[05:24:46] <MikeE> when they tool up their zone... nuke it, blast down a new one, and have them recover their code from the repository...
[05:25:14] <boyd> MikeE: Can you not just not give them root?
[05:25:52] <MikeE> I can't give all them root in the local zone... thats the problem... they'll step on eachother and take down the shared box... root in the local would be best... but stinkin' clearcase don't work in local zones.
[05:26:32] <MikeE> Xaero... do a little googlin' on that.. I think I remember something about someone getting it to work. x86 only though probably, but I'm not sure. Did you look at the QUEMU project on the opernsolaris project page?
[05:26:51] <MikeE> boyd: that meant to say: can't give them all root in the global....
[05:27:18] <boyd> Let me re-phrase Must they have root at all?
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[05:27:41] <MikeE> boyd, even if they don't have root.... there are namespace collisions...
[05:27:52] <MikeE> say they all want to run JavaStudioCreator....
[05:27:58] <jbk> i sometimes have a hard time letting them just have access to a box :)
[05:28:07] <Plaidrab> Tell me about it.
[05:28:12] <MikeE> can't be done (easily/nicely) in the same global...
[05:28:21] <Plaidrab> "You have your own string. Break it. Not mine"
[05:28:34] <MikeE> perfect use for local zones... (root or not for that matter).... just the
[05:28:42] <MikeE> fine.... clearcase piece doesn't fit.
[05:29:01] <MikeE> who would have thought IBM  would be dragging their feet on solaris virtualization....
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[05:29:19] <Plaidrab> :)
[05:29:29] <jbk> heh..
[05:29:43] <jbk> it only took gm to 'persuade' them to port their stuff to solaris x86
[05:29:45] <Plaidrab> Well, we aren't running zones.
[05:30:06] <MikeE> Plaidrab :: let me guess... dilbert manager again...
[05:30:07] <jbk> i know no one what work there, but knowing ibm, it probably took 'port it or we dump you'
[05:30:24] <Plaidrab> We don't have 10
[05:30:41] <MikeE> that explains why no ZFS .... or t2000....
[05:31:00] <Plaidrab> If we had ten, we could reduce 13 servers doiwn to probably 4.
[05:31:13] <jbk> just start silenting installing 10 and install a small dtrace script that makes it show up like it's solaris 8 :)
[05:31:38] <MikeE> plaidrab :: you can dumb down 10 to look and feel pretty much like 8/9.... you don't HAVE to use the cool features... (but at least you have them at your fingertips)
[05:31:39] <Plaidrab> As delightful as that would be to do, that's not very practical where I work.
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[05:32:01] <MikeE> I'm surprised they even allow you to IRC here :-)
[05:32:13] <Plaidrab> I'm at home
[05:33:18] <MikeE> :-)  check out the following for some ZFS love
[05:33:21] <MikeE> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/demos/basics/
[05:33:33] <MikeE> Its a little dated, but gives you some thoughts around it.
[05:33:48] <MikeE> and its easy for managers to understand.
[05:33:56] <Plaidrab> It'll prolly just manke me angry.
[05:34:21] <Plaidrab> Life was better when I worked for Sun. Let's just leave it at that
[05:34:31] <jbk> heh..
[05:34:39] <jbk> sometimes things can change..
[05:34:43] <jbk> just 2 years ago
[05:35:10] <jbk> we were going to dump all our solaris, hp-ux, and aix systems for linx running on egenera
[05:35:17] <Plaidrab> I didn't have solaris work for almost 4 years
[05:35:22] <Plaidrab> I wasn't.
[05:35:31] <jbk> after a few changes in management, now solaris is the corporate standard
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[05:36:05] <MikeE> anyone know if in a local zone you can provide the SAME raw device to multiple local zones?
[05:36:14] <MikeE> (caveat emptor here obviously)
[05:36:23] <jbk> hmm.. never tried that
[05:36:44] <MikeE> (tape san/drive situation... global will arbitrate, but both need access)
[05:37:10] <Plaidrab> Don't look at me. Today I learned I'd been checking fibrechannel disks out of 280s wrong for the past year.
[05:37:45] <jbk> i've only ever tested to one zone at a time
[05:38:06] <jbk> and that was before i decided to look at the source for /bin/mount
[05:38:22] <jbk> (vxfs bug that prevented specifying vxfs filesystems in the zone config)
[05:40:15] <MikeE> jbk hmmm we're using vxfs as the root for local zones... (and for loopback) ... what am I missing?
[05:40:26] <jbk> oh, veritas fixed the bug
[05:40:54] <Plaidrab> It's been fun.
[05:41:18] <jbk> basically vxfs mount only existed as /etc/fs/<fsname>/mount
[05:41:37] <MikeE> later dude...
[05:41:40] <jbk> and zones would only look for /usr/lib/fs/<fname>/mount
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[05:42:04] <MikeE> aah... that must have been fixed since 4.1, we haven't run into any weirdness with that...
[05:42:10] <jbk> yeah..
[05:42:25] <jbk>  /bin/mount looks in either spot
[05:42:27] <MikeE> ofcourse we're totally screwed when it comes to ugprades later, since vxvm/vxfs aren't supported with LU and friends...
[05:42:40] <jbk> on your root drive?
[05:42:45] <MikeE> in zones...
[05:42:58] <MikeE> (zone root)
[05:42:58] <jbk> hmm..
[05:43:15] <MikeE> welcome to the same boat I'm in... (it all seemed like a good idea at the time)
[05:44:21] <jbk> that does seem a bit of a bind
[05:45:49] <jbk> well i better get some sleep..
[05:45:57] <MikeE> yep... you boot from the say U4+ media to perform a LU of the global... since the locals are on vxvm/vxfs which are NOT "loaded" from the boot-cd, those zones can't be started, and cna therefore not be upgraded...
[05:46:04] <MikeE> trouble ahead... sleep now :-)
[05:46:05] <MikeE> 'nite
[05:46:09] <jbk> hehe
[05:46:10] <jbk> later
[05:46:35] <MikeE> bye
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[06:45:56] <Error_404> so quiet here tonight
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[07:15:39] <Triskelios> man, these OS "starter kit" DVDs are scratched all to hell
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[07:46:03] <dlg> how do i look at a crash dump?
[07:46:25] <gisburn> mdb
[07:46:30] <dlg> i guessed that bit
[07:46:35] <dlg> i was hoping for the arguments too
[07:46:55] <gisburn> urgh
[07:47:01] <gisburn> dlg: you want Tpenta for that.
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[07:50:49] <LeftWing> Ha HAH! University finished for the year.
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[08:12:47] <jmcp> LeftWing: how did you go with that assignment?
[08:12:59] <LeftWing> Which?
[08:13:04] <LeftWing> There've been so many.
[08:13:09] <jmcp> the one I gave you some feedback on
[08:13:18] <LeftWing> Oh, I got 90% for that I believe.  =)
[08:13:24] <LeftWing> Thanks for your feedback.
[08:13:41] <jmcp> neat! :)
[08:13:44] <jmcp> you're welcome. anytime
[08:14:26] <LeftWing> Just finished my last project demonstration thing for a groupwork thing I was part of today -- a 3D object scanner.
[08:14:59] <jmcp> how did it go?
[08:15:59] <dlg> mfi with polled io is still faster than some of my disks at home
[08:16:03] <dlg> oops, wrong window
[08:16:47] <LeftWing> jmcp: See for yourself:  http://cgsdev.newcastle.edu.au/~leftwing/3850_ss6.PNG
[08:17:01] <LeftWing> That's an upside-down china bowl.
[08:17:12] <LeftWing> Plus a few sensor artefacts.
[08:17:51] <LeftWing> I wrote the PC software and the OpenGL 3D plotting routines.
[08:18:51] <LeftWing> I'm under the impression they want to use the scanner equipment + software as an Open Day exhibit for next year.
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[08:42:15] <Error_404> where precisely do i pick up SUNWcry?
[08:51:41] <jmcp> Error_404: we don't talk about that in polite company
[08:52:38] <Error_404> umm...
[08:52:56] <Error_404> but wpa_supplicant needs it
[08:54:46] <Error_404> i found them for sol8
[08:54:53] <Error_404> but i assume that's unacceptable
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[09:07:44] <dwc-> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/security/projects/ef/sunwcry/ ?
[09:09:26] <trygvis> in awk, how can I make sure the line I just matched is not matched again by any following regexps?
[09:10:03] <trygvis> by matching them it seems like
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[09:55:04] <richlowe> dlg: cd /dir/with/dump; mdb <dump number>
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[09:55:26] <richlowe> or mdb unix.N vmcore.N
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[10:15:37] <yakov> hi
[10:15:48] <yakov> guys, is it possible to open XDCMP on Xsun?
[10:20:32] <raph_ael> hello
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[10:33:14] <mlh> yakov: I'm sure it is
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[11:09:55] <Snake007uk> morning
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[12:01:14] <PerterB> dunc: possibly of interest to you, the free nfo driver seems to detect my onboard nvidia ethernet OK... it's currently not plugged into anything so I can't test any further than that until I get home, but it's a start
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[12:16:29] <yakov> guys, i figured that xdm listen on any inderictal connection
[12:16:30] <twincest> http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/index.jsp <  huh
[12:16:42] <twincest> now there are three seperate bugster interfaces ;)
[12:17:19] <yakov> and i have Xnest. could you pls help me - how can i test xdm with Xnest?
[12:18:17] <Berny> Xnest -query host :x (let x be a number different from your running session/display number)
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[12:24:15] <Gr|ffous> what command do I use to display the amount of RAM in a system?
[12:24:27] <twincest> prtconf
[12:24:49] <Gr|ffous> ta
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[12:50:15] <twincest> neat, found another studio compiler bug.  and i've only been awake half an hour
[12:52:16] <PerterB> that's a feature... it wakes up as slowly as you do ;)
[12:54:02] <ProfMikey> lol
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[13:23:55] <tomww> twincest: which version of the studio compiler? there are new patches on the way at least for studio11
[13:24:11] <twincest> tomww: current 5.8 and express build27_2
[13:25:06] <twincest> i suspect it's caused by a similar thing to the bug i found yesterday, which was confirmed as not fixed
[13:25:16] <twincest> (i found it while looking for a workaroud for that bug)
[13:28:02] <tomww> I installed on sparc studio11 and found, thet sunsolve shows up new patch releases, but the've been not yet downloadable.
[13:29:18] <tomww> maybe the new patch-readme reflects your bugs as solved? hmmm.
[13:35:51] <twincest> unlikely since i was asked to file a new bug for it :)
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[13:42:19] <tomww> please do so od find one to file it for you .-)
[13:42:26] <tomww> s/od/or/
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[14:07:39] <myrkraverk> alanc-away: did you get my email?
[14:10:51] <dunc> ok PerterB cheers
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[14:23:16] <regx> sup
[14:23:53] <twincest> huh, a bug filed against the forte objc compiler
[14:24:00] <twincest> did that ever make it into a real release?
[14:25:10] <tomww> twincest: :-) (bug-id?)
[14:25:32] <twincest> 1222056
[14:25:44] <Doc> that's a rather old bug number
[14:25:51] <twincest> it's a rather old compiler :)
[14:25:56] <twincest> part of Sun OpenStep i guess
[14:26:06] <Doc> in fact, i think i've only ever seen bug numbers starting with "1" in history books :)
[14:26:36] <dunc> lol
[14:26:54] <twincest> hey, their bug form lets you add comments
[14:26:59] <twincest> why doesn't ours?
[14:34:48] <richlowe> twincest: nobody knows.
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[14:35:54] <richlowe> twincest: it should be noted, however, that it doesn't really let you add comments.
[14:35:57] <richlowe> it just pretends to.
[14:36:02] <richlowe> the comments you're seeing aren't reflected in BT2
[14:36:08] <richlowe> nor are BT2 comments reflected there.
[14:36:15] <richlowe> Evaluation, however, looked to match up.
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[14:54:49] <postwait> I'm looking for the SUNWcry packages.  Anyone know where to find them?
[14:55:06] <twincest> postwait: google 'solaris encryption kit', it's hidden on sun.com somewhere
[14:55:07] <elektronkind> for the crypto daemon?
[14:55:59] <elektronkind> I seem to recall it being included with the Sun mail server product
[14:56:12] <postwait> thanks!
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[15:17:01] <Doc> knowing sun, we've probably got about a dozen things called the 'solaris encryption kit'
[15:17:17] <Doc> at least half of which will have been renamed to have "Java" in the name
[15:18:32] <Stric> Java N1 Security?
[15:18:40] <Stric> +Enterprise
[15:22:56] <Doc> exactly
[15:23:17] <Doc> i have a copy of it here somewhere, now that you've asked for it using the correct codewords :)
[15:23:37] <razrX> on a Solaris 10 6/06 system, how do i permanently set an inet6 default route and make it survive system reboots? defaultrouter(4) mentions only being used for IPv4 default routes.
[15:25:58] <Doc> hmm.. i think i wrote that as one of the questions on the Solaris 10 Network Admin certification exam
[15:26:09] <Doc> but i'll be dammed if i can remember the correct answer
[15:27:02] <razrX> dig harder into history Doc  ;)
[15:27:37] <Doc> i started drinking a few hours ago - i cant remember what i did today let alone what i did 18 months ago
[15:28:35] <razrX> lol
[15:28:45] <Doc> i think defaultrouter should work, as the start scripts just blindly run a "route add default `cat /etc/defaultrouter`" or something like that
[15:28:56] <Doc> the problem would be if you want both ipv4 and ipv6 default routes
[15:29:51] <Doc> Mugatu (n=mugatu@unaffiliated/Mugatu) has joined channel #solaris
[15:29:55] <Doc> blah
[15:29:58] <Doc> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0573/6mgc65bbi?a=view
[15:30:31] <jbk> uugh.. I hate developers sometimes :)
[15:30:39] <richlowe> only sometimes?
[15:30:50] <Doc> razrx: btw, that url was for you
[15:30:52] <Cyrille> that's ok, we hate users, you know ;-)
[15:31:23] <jbk> well for this one application which shall remain nameless, there are pieces that run on solaris, and pieces that run on windows
[15:31:32] <razrX> yah, am reading it now
[15:31:35] <jbk> there is also a requirement that it print stuff periodically
[15:31:56] <jbk> for historical reasons, our print environment is done completely on windows
[15:31:59] <Doc> users suck. but you all need to keep in mind, that to me, most of you are "users" :)
[15:32:16] <jbk> and up till now, we've never had a need for any of our unix systems to be able to print stuff
[15:32:18] <razrX> unfortunately the system I need an IPv6 default route for is just a node within my network relying on a IPv6 router box already up and running
[15:32:51] <Doc> then use router discovery
[15:33:18] <jbk> now they say they can use the windows box to print from, however the consultant that knows the application and can set that up is on vacation, however they want to set it up from one of the solaris boxes to test, even though in production it's *supposed* to be done on the windows printer
[15:33:29] <razrX> will read the entire article 1st and see if anything juicy comes along
[15:33:37] <richlowe> Doc: hah.
[15:33:40] <razrX> thx Doc for the url
[15:35:02] <richlowe> Doc: the last huge photo of yours (I guess), is impressively nifty.
[15:35:11] <Doc> rich: it's true tho.. i spend half my day bitching at admins. the admins spend half the day bitching at developers. the developers spend half the day bitching at.....  and so on :)
[15:36:01] <Doc> (actually, i'm pretty lucky - most of the admin i deal with are actually bloody good - although there are exceptions)
[15:36:32] <jbk> but so they've escalated to a vp now to do this on solaris (even though it's probably been years since anyone's touched printing in solaris), and even though the test will largely be invalid
[15:36:58] <Doc> hmm.. passed 180,000 visits to my Machu Picchu photo (http://www.docbert.org/MP for those that havent seen it)
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[15:45:05] <jbk> hmm
[15:45:16] <jbk> anyone know offhand how to troubleshoot this further?
[15:45:21] <jbk> Kernel                     360519              2816   69%
[15:45:26] <jbk> that seems... excessive
[15:45:33] <AbeFroman> are you using zfs?
[15:45:37] <jbk> no
[15:46:30] <jbk> s10u1
[15:46:31] <AbeFroman> hmm
[15:47:18] <jbk> i'm not an mdb guru, so i'm not sure what else i can do other than ::memstat
[15:47:27] <Doc> download scat and see what's using it
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[15:47:52] <Doc> but there's a good chance you'll need to set kmem_flags to actually learn anything
[15:48:01] <jbk> that's what i was afraid of
[15:48:02] <Doc> are you running any non-sun kernel modules?
[15:48:11] <jbk> vxvm + vxfs
[15:48:16] <richlowe> though depending on the hardware, you may not have much chance of running scat.
[15:48:18] <Doc> that's all?
[15:48:27] <richlowe> unless the x86/x64 scat is public these days.
[15:48:40] <jbk> v240
[15:49:01] <Doc> as a very basic rule, memory leaks are caused by 3rd part module, not including VX stuff
[15:49:02] <jbk> i'll just open a ticket, put our plantinum contract to use :)
[15:49:24] <Doc> jbk: are you in sydney, australia?
[15:49:31] <jbk> no
[15:49:33] <jbk> US
[15:49:38] <Doc> good. open a call
[15:49:41] <richlowe> hahaha
[15:49:46] <jbk> :)
[15:49:52] <Doc> if you were in sydney, i'd have to look after the call you raised... :)
[15:50:15] <Doc> (actually that's not true - i'm not oncall for another 7 hours)
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[15:50:50] <jbk> well what i'm wondering, but don't know how verify
[15:51:11] <Doc> are you using Sun Trunking
[15:51:22] <jbk> no
[15:51:42] <Doc> do you have a dedicated dump device, or are you using swap for the dump device?
[15:51:55] <jbk> swap for dump device
[15:52:00] <richlowe> ::kmastat will give you a list of stats on kmem caches.
[15:52:04] <Doc> hmm.. that's a pity
[15:52:12] <richlowe> "The one that wraps the line is being abused" ;)
[15:52:17] <Doc> mdb is your best bet, but i dont know mdb well enough to even run it
[15:52:31] <richlowe> well, that's the worst heuristic ever, but you get the idea. :)
[15:52:58] <Doc> if it's a memory leak, you're basically going to need to set kmem_flags in /etc/system, reboot, and wait for it to occur again
[15:53:17] <Doc> if it's not a memory leak as such, then kmausers might tell you (well, sun) all they need to know
[15:53:20] <richlowe> Yeah, ::kmastat works with normal flags, the more useful bits need at least KMF_AUDIT.
[15:53:41] <jbk> the one thing i'm wondering about, but don't know if i can verify without doing that
[15:53:52] <Doc> if you have plat, raise a call
[15:53:53] <jbk> is there is supposedly a bug in vxfs 4.1mp1
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[15:53:56] <jbk> i am :)
[15:54:06] <Doc> there are lots of bugs in vxfs 4.1mp1
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[15:54:12] <jbk> that can leak memory
[15:54:18] <Doc> when you raise a call, msg me the number so i can see an eye on it :)
[15:54:23] <jbk> but of course, veritas can't tell us how or when :)
[15:54:34] <Doc> dont use DR with 4.1mp1
[15:54:43] <Doc> **bang**
[15:55:26] <Doc> (it pre-allocates some performance structures based on the number of CPUs at boot. if you add more CPUs, it leads to kernel memory corruption, which is a real nice one to troubleshoot)
[15:56:00] <jbk> ick
[15:56:07] <jbk> that's gonna suck on our 25ks :(
[15:56:18] <Doc> yup.. that's where i hit it, on a 25k
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[16:00:00] * jbk will be happy when zfs rolls around :)
[16:00:49] <Doc> umm.. hasnt it already>
[16:00:56] <Doc> s/>/?/
[16:00:57] <jbk> i mean for us
[16:01:05] <Doc> which reminds me, i need to download Sol9 9/05 HW
[16:01:15] <Doc> which strikes me as the most stupid name ever for a solaris release
[16:01:19] <Snake007uk> Doc, whats the HW ??
[16:01:39] <jbk> support + being able to shrink a pool are what we're waiting on
[16:01:41] <Doc> new release of solaris 9. includes support for 215, 445 and a few others
[16:01:59] <Doc> came out in october 2006, but they called it "9/05 HW"
[16:02:13] <dunc_> !
[16:02:18] <Doc> with no number like normal HW releases, because it's going to be the only HW release for solaris 9 9/05
[16:04:28] <PerterB> just to keep it clear ;)
[16:05:29] <Doc> blah.. and someone best me to updating infodoc 79313
[16:08:56] <Doc> V215/V245, V445, Ultra 45, and Schumacher (new blades) need Solaris 9 9/05 HW  according to an article i wrote
[16:18:33] <Snake007uk> anyone here use delicious for bookmarking?
[16:21:00] <Doc> i get a shirtload of hits from it, but that's about all
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[16:35:56] <OnkelSchorsch> hm. didn't expect that the solaris core system cluster doesn't include zones
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[16:37:26] <richlowe> The package clusters, are, at best, not particularly sane.
[16:37:38] <Doc> well, core isnt anyway
[16:37:56] <OnkelSchorsch> :(
[16:39:08] <Snake007uk> http://virtualthreads.blogspot.com/
[16:39:39] <Doc> is there an echo in here?
[16:41:44] <richlowe> Doc: eh?
[16:42:00] <Doc> dont worry - you had to be there
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[16:43:52] <PerterB> Snake007uk: that guy is naively optimistic if he thinks he can stamp out voodoo computing with user education
[16:44:11] <Snake007uk> lol
[16:44:19] <PerterB> it's not funny :(
[16:44:20] <Snake007uk> but you have to admit he is spot on
[16:44:25] <PerterB> oh yes
[16:44:43] <Snake007uk> i could go round pointing out each type in our office
[16:44:49] <Snake007uk> specially the mangerial one LOL
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[16:59:21] <PerterB> off topic quote of the day: "The public wants us to have mastered the problem of dealing with asteroids. So being able to have astronauts go out there and sort of poke one with a stick would be scientifically valuable as well as demonstrate human capabilities."
[16:59:49] <Doc> jimmy!
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[17:42:55] <g4lt-mordant> PerterB, most people mastered Asteroids in the early eighties ;P
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[17:43:34] <PerterB> :)
[17:47:50] <PerterB> I was always a bit shit at steering it and crashed as soon as I was forced to move
[17:48:56] <g4lt-mordant> PerterB, taht's why you did "junior",  point the ship in one direction, hit thrust all the time and fire like hell in the direction you're going
[17:49:34] <PerterB> that never seemed to work out well for me ;)
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[17:51:55] <richlowe> spin it around and spray, dodge as a last resort?
[17:52:04] <boro> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/counterstrike.php
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[18:03:05] <raph_ael> someone using pkgsrc on opensolaris ?
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[18:07:27] <gdamore> hi *
[18:07:30] <eugene> jmcp: the photos look nice. how long will you be in beijing?
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[18:34:52] <tomww> raph_ael: sorry, i'm using pkgtool/pkgbuild instead of pkgsrc :-)
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[18:36:01] <stevel> raph_ael: eboutilier has played with pkgsrc
[18:36:42] <richlowe> stevel: mornin'
[18:36:49] <stevel> morning richlowe
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[18:38:03] <twincest> wtf
[18:38:12] <twincest> i made a typo in my bug report and they want me to *submit a new report*
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[18:38:49] <stevel> who is "they"?
[18:39:02] <tomww> the c-compiler guys
[18:39:05] <twincest> Sun.  whoever handles Studio bug reports, i suppose
[18:39:11] <frankho> what bug id ?
[18:39:20] <twincest> Incident Review ID: 840265
[18:39:23] <twincest> i don't have a CR #
[18:39:35] <frankho> ETOOMANYTOOLS :(
[18:40:02] <stevel> what was the bug?
[18:40:07] <frankho> could correct CR# for you but I don't know what tracks these incident review ids ...
[18:40:41] <twincest> stevel: it does SFINAE wrongly in some cases.  http://forum.sun.com/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=380945
[18:40:53] <twincest> (the code in that post is correct, i made an error in my trimmed down test case for the CR)
[18:41:26] <stevel> where did you file the bug?
[18:41:30] <stevel> at b.o.o.?
[18:41:31] <twincest> http://bugs.sun.com/
[18:41:38] <stevel> ah
[18:41:58] <twincest> the bug is fairly nasty, my test case fails to compile but real code will silently produce the wrong result
[18:42:03] * stevel has no idea how to map an "Incident Review ID" to a bugster CR
[18:42:42] <twincest> stevel: i'm guessing 'incident review' is something that happens before it gets to bugster, maybe?
[18:42:48] * stevel shrugs
[18:42:55] <stevel> your guess is as good as mine :) i've no idea how it works
[18:43:29] <twincest> anyway, i have more interesting things to do than play games with stupid bug tools, i don't use sun's c++ compiler anyway :P
[18:44:05] <richlowe> nothing's more interesting than playing games with stupid bug tools.
[18:44:11] <richlowe> except perhaps complaining about them.
[18:44:32] <gdamore> richlowe: you are a sick, sick man. :-)
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[18:45:44] <richlowe> I'm waiting on the hg stuff, since I don't want to do full sparc builds twice in quick succession.
[18:46:11] <richlowe> well 'quick succession' maybe an abuse of the term, "with a short interval between them" maybe better.
[18:46:27] <twincest> 'long succession with short interval'
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[19:04:39] <frankho> need to leave
[19:04:40] <eboutilier> raph_ael: I too am using pkgtool/pkgbuild these days instead of pkgsrc
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[19:04:58] <eboutilier> I think there's still a pocket of pkgsrc-on-Solaris fans out there though...
[19:05:16] <eboutilier> ... and last I heard the BeleniX folks were going to incorporate it in a big way.
[19:05:52] <tomww> the question would be pkgsrc as a starter or looking for the right build-method or improving already existing building-skills ... :-)
[19:06:14] <eboutilier> Note however that the pkgsrc-on-Solaris people are 99% focused on production systems, which means Solaris 8/9/10, not OpenSolaris
[19:07:12] <eboutilier> tomww: It strikes me as too monolithic to serve that purpose.
[19:07:53] <eboutilier> (Actually it strikes me as a bit too monolithic  in general)
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[19:11:33] <sickness> eboutilier: url pleaze =)
[19:13:48] <eboutilier> http://pkgsrc.org
[19:13:58] <eboutilier> Once there, scan around the page for "Solaris"
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[19:16:32] <eboutilier> It's also enlightening to peruse recent pkgsrc mailing list archives for threads about pkgsrc on Solaris:
[19:16:45] <eboutilier> http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-pkg/
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[19:30:08] <sickness> eboutilier: I know the url for pkgsrc
[19:30:21] <sickness> eboutilier: I was meaning pkgtool/pkgbuild
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[19:35:02] <eboutilier> sickness: Ah, pkgtool. Here's the project homepage:
[19:35:32] <eboutilier> (I mean  pkgbuild/pkgtool)
[19:35:35] <eboutilier> http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/
[19:35:58] <eboutilier> Also see:
[19:36:11] <eboutilier> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/jds/contributing/building/
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[19:36:22] <eboutilier> and: http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/spec-files-extra/
[19:36:54] <eboutilier> and: http://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pkgbuild/spec-files-extra/trunk
[19:37:09] <sickness> eboutilier: tnx :)
[19:38:20] <eboutilier> And last but not least, the best resource yet, #opensolaris regular, laca, is the author :)
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[19:40:05] <laca> hey eboutilier
[19:40:16] * laca heard his name mentioned (:
[19:40:19] <eboutilier> hey laca
[19:41:00] <jbk> hmm.. anyone really familiar with the innards of patchadd?
[19:41:58] <Fish-> hello
[19:42:08] <eboutilier> Laca: tricky question for you if you have a sec...
[19:43:19] <jbk> I have a package wth SUNW_PKG_ALLZONES=true; and when trying to do patchadd which includes updates to that package I get 'pkgadd: ERROR: attempt to unset package XXX version XXX package zone attribute <SUNW_PKG_ALLZONES> from <true>: the package azone attribute of installed packages that are set to <true> cannot be unset'
[19:43:31] <jbk> i suspect it means the patch is broken
[19:43:36] <jbk> (no zones are installed on the box)
[19:44:09] <eboutilier> What if a FOSS app builds w/ stuff in libexec and lib, do you still invoke configure with --libexecdir=%{_libexecdir} ?
[19:45:55] <laca> yes, we install all libexec stuff in lib on solaris
[19:46:12] <laca> if there is a conflict, you need to do something about it
[19:46:15] <eboutilier> OK, now for the really tricky part... :)
[19:46:26] <eboutilier> Ah, you guess it
[19:46:31] <laca> yeah
[19:46:38] <laca> we had in evolution-data-server:
[19:46:51] <laca> /usr/lib/evolution-data-server-x.y (executable)
[19:47:02] <laca> oops
[19:47:06] <laca> /usr/libexec/evolution-data-server-x.y (executable)
[19:47:09] <eboutilier> With dovecot there's lib/dovecot/imap which is a directory, and libexec/dovecot/imap which is a file
[19:47:13] <laca> /usr/lib/evolution-data-server-x.y (directory)
[19:47:28] <laca> right, same problem
[19:48:15] <eboutilier> I punted and made basedir = /usr/dovecot, and let libexecdir be libexec and libdir be lib.
[19:48:18] <laca> i would probably patch the makefile
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[19:49:09] <laca> hmm... /usr/dovecot is not nice
[19:49:20] <eboutilier> We have /usr/apache..
[19:49:39] <richlowe> that's an abomination, too.
[19:49:40] <eboutilier> and /usr/gnome
[19:49:42] <richlowe> and that.
[19:49:46] <richlowe> :)
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[19:50:43] <eboutilier> If it's  limited to server daemon software it seems fine to me, e.g. dovecot, apache, squid, proftpd...
[19:51:32] <laca> we briefly had /usr/gnome around 2.0.0 beta something
[19:51:33] <g4lt-mordant> actually, those would be in zones FTW
[19:52:35] <laca> eboutilier: i would just patch that makefile to install the binary under a different dir or name
[19:53:17] <eboutilier> laca: Yeah, all I see in my /usr/gnome is a few  things in /usr/gnome/share/. Sadly, I'm on b39  only.
[19:54:49] <laca> sadly, i'm on an old linux box now, because my solaris laptop (ferrari 4k) died :(
[19:55:00] <eboutilier> Understood, but that "breaks" cross-OS compatibility for dovecot admins then, which I'm reluctant to do.
[19:55:30] <hell`> laca: howd it die?
[19:55:50] <laca> eboutilier: then an even better suggestion is to discuss with the maintainers what they want to do about this
[19:56:15] <eboutilier> Very good point.
[19:56:45] <laca> probably the motherboard.  i just freezes after a few seconds of operation, sometimes lasts a couple of minutes...
[19:57:18] <hell`> damn
[19:57:19] <laca> if i just leave it in the bios setup menu it still freezes, so it's definitely not a software problem
[19:57:22] <hell`> i had some issues but not that
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[19:58:04] <richlowe> the only stuff that ends up in /usr/gnome in snv_51a is smc.desktop, and a related icon.
[19:58:12] <richlowe> ... and it'd be great to see that cease. :)
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[20:11:56] <balaji> hi ppl. Cant sloaris express be installed on logical drives? when trying to install i just saw four primary partitions listed..
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[20:12:14] * stevel gives the automounter a swift kick in the ass
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[20:13:38] <sickness> balaji: one of them should be the solaris partition, inside that you can do logical (which are in fact "slices")
[20:17:50] <Error_404> I'm tired of the tyranny of disks on the inside of my machines
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[20:19:06] <Error_404> i should pick up a d130 and hack it apart to be an eSATA box
[20:19:34] <sickness> eheh
[20:19:35] <sickness> yeah
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[20:20:46] <Error_404> it'd work too
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[20:20:59] <Error_404> power supply + disk slots
[20:21:06] <richlowe> stevel: seeing it hang? :)
[20:21:18] <Error_404> it'd just be a matter of yanking out the control board & putting in eSATA ports
[20:21:26] <stevel> richlowe: no :) i'm seeing it not mount onnv-gate for some reason
[20:21:33] <richlowe> bugger.
[20:21:38] <Error_404> anyone have a d130 kicking around that i can have?
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[20:29:11] <twincest> Error: the D130 is ridiculously expensive, isn't it?
[20:29:54] <Error_404> not anymore
[20:31:32] <Error_404> it's a 3 disk version of the d1000
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[20:38:39] <stevel> onnv-gate Hg repository is back up
[20:39:38] <twincest> stevel++
[20:39:46] <richlowe> hah.
[20:40:12] <richlowe> stevel: nice :)
[20:40:20] <richlowe> (the hah, was because now I get to go fix workspaces again)
[20:40:53] <agliodbs> oooops
[20:41:00] <agliodbs> let me apologize in advance
[20:41:23] <agliodbs> I told Sara Dornife that people on this channel thought that the OpenSolaris conference in Germany would be a flop
[20:41:34] <richlowe> stevel: at least the fix instructions are simpler this time.
[20:41:35] <agliodbs> not realizing that she was helping organize it
[20:41:40] <richlowe> stevel: "Start over, it's fun!"
[20:41:56] <richlowe> I'm not sure any of used the word flop.  I know *I'm* generally less polite than that, anyway.
[20:42:36] <agliodbs> well, that it was "unlikely to be successful given the organizers and the late start"
[20:42:37] <balaji> sickness: so u mean to say that atleast one partition needs to be solaris one?
[20:42:52] <stevel> agliodbs: why?
[20:43:29] <agliodbs> because she asked if I was going
[20:43:35] <sickness> balaji: I think so, I don't think that solaris could be installed, for example, in a logical partition inside a windows extended partition, but I'm a noob so people here correct me if I'm wrong =)
[20:43:42] <agliodbs> and I told her I was planning on going to Tech Days Hydalbad instead
[20:45:40] <richlowe> stevel: hg should refuse a pull into an existing clone.
[20:45:47] <richlowe> stevel: the workspaces are now unrelated.
[20:45:52] <richlowe> so trying should just make it tell you not to.
[20:46:07] <stevel> no i mean why do people think it will flop? (i.e.: why do they attribute it to the organisers)
[20:46:34] <balaji> sickness: ok fine. ok because the extended thing is not a standard one.. but it would be nice if u could have solaris install into a logical drive right?
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[20:46:57] <sickness> balaji: right, I know
[20:47:11] <Plaidrab> Okay. I just got Nevada installed but I can't root ssh in. Disabled by default?
[20:48:15] <agliodbs> stevel: well, I don't know about the organizers, but the late start is dead-on
[20:48:24] <stevel> agliodbs: true
[20:48:35] <agliodbs> stevel: if you don't get your conference on the calendar at least 9 months in advance, you've cut your attendence in half
[20:48:49] <Plaidrab> Or more
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[20:49:07] <sickness> Plaidrab: yeah
[20:49:18] <Plaidrab> okay. So I need to find my mouse. :)
[20:50:03] <agliodbs> anyway, some of the Solaris leads will be getting nastygrams from Sara, so I wanted to apologize for blundering us into this
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[20:53:19] <richlowe> agliodbs: no *Solaris* leads were involved in the conversation in here.
[20:53:23] <richlowe> unless alanc counts.
[20:53:28] <richlowe> and no tonic folk I can think of, either.
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[20:55:17] <Error_404> it's a damned shame the v100 doesn't come with a pci slot
[20:55:43] <agliodbs> richlowe: hmmm ... good point
[20:55:53] <agliodbs> richlowe: however, I don't really want to identify you by name to clean stuff up ...
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[20:56:08] * stevel saves all his bad-mouthing for privmsgs ;-)
[20:56:17] <movement> richlowe: there?
[20:57:14] <agliodbs> stevel: are you involved in OpenSolarisCon?
[20:57:18] <richlowe> movement: yes.
[20:57:25] <Gman> hey dudes
[20:57:48] <stevel> agliodbs: nope
[20:57:49] <richlowe> Gman: mornin'
[20:57:54] <stevel> hey glynn
[20:58:13] <movement> richlowe: not that you necessarily care, but since I mentioned it... I've narrowed down the SS11 DWARF problem to a compiler bug
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[20:58:23] <richlowe> movement: Which one?
[20:58:34] <pr34dy> hello
[20:58:36] <richlowe> movement: the VLA differences, or one of the other 2 (3?)
[20:58:54] <richlowe> movement: my assumption with the VLA stuff was using a different atttribute to indicate length in that case.
[20:58:56] <movement> richlowe: the "we have to use stabs for ON because CTF doesn't work otherwise" one
[20:58:59] <movement> not vla related
[20:59:21] <richlowe> movement: yeah, I saw a comment to that effect at some point.
[20:59:40] <pr34dy> i have a small question on how to build OpenSolaris... after i installer solaris express, how to build a debug kernel? it says non-debug s not supported but standard is a non-debug ..(?)
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[21:05:49] <pr34dy> i tried to build it on standard Sol.expr. kernel, but dmake gives me many erros, think its because it isnt a debug kernel
[21:06:21] <twincest> you don't need a debug kernel to build
[21:06:48] <Error_404> http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0050/index.html
[21:06:56] <Error_404> read dclarke's howto
[21:07:04] <richlowe> or the devref
[21:07:14] <Error_404> yes, or that
[21:09:03] <richlowe> Hm, 18 minutes to clone that time.
[21:12:12] <pr34dy> thx a lot... one last thing, where can i obtain the actual source? this: hg clone ssh://anon at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate , seems not to work for me, it says the repository doesnt exist
[21:12:18] <stevel> richlowe: i think there are a bunch of people cloning
[21:14:00] <stevel> yay
[21:14:03] * stevel is happy to see notifications back
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[21:17:03] <richlowe> and idividual, too.
[21:17:16] <richlowe> pr34dy: it should work again now.
[21:17:41] <hily___sc> h
[21:19:39] <stevel> richlowe: i have changes for aggregating notifications, just haven't put them back in yet
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[21:20:21] <richlowe> stevel: I meant it isn't sending me them 2 or 3 times each anymore.
[21:20:24] <richlowe> at least for those two.
[21:20:27] <stevel> oh right. yeah, i fixed that
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[21:38:37] * stevel sighs
[21:38:43] <stevel> time to go regenerate all those build bundles
[21:39:20] <Error_404> hmm... yet another build failed
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[21:59:39] <OnkelSchorsch> and I can't plumb it. yeah. yeah. yeah.
[22:00:08] * OnkelSchorsch can't attach rf and rtls to a cheapo d-link card with rtl8139 :(
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[22:17:13] <_dreams_> ris
[22:17:16] <_dreams_> hello
[22:17:41] <tomww> laca: your ferrari freezes with and without the battery attached?
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[22:18:09] <laca> tomww: i haven't tried without the battery
[22:18:12] <laca> let me check
[22:20:31] <tomww> it's just an idea...  (would probably reduce load on the powersupply / internal converters)
[22:23:47] <laca> so far working without the battery (:
[22:23:55] <laca> very light too (;
[22:24:10] <tomww> hope it works for loooong :)
[22:24:14] <laca> oops, spoke too soon :(
[22:24:43] <laca> oh well, it was worth a try, thanks
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[22:25:16] <tomww> yes.
[22:26:55] <tomww> last thing would be another powersupply, but probably this will not help more. if sending to service, do you have an adapter to standrd-IDE available or another notebook to copy the disk?
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[22:28:02] <hspaans> g'day to all
[22:28:26] <laca> i managed to save most stuff in those happy minutes when it's still working
[22:28:59] <laca> so it's not a big deal if i lose all data
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[22:30:40] <tomww> :-)
[22:31:15] <Gman> laca, let's see how fast those ferraris really go when dropped off a 20 storey building! :)
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[22:33:56] <laca> heh... apparently acer fixes laptops at a flat rate (~ USD500) so it's yet time to toss it
[22:36:43] <Plaidrab> yeow
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[22:38:19] * hspaans is happy that Sun starts using Ogg Theora
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[22:51:53] <dwc-> $500 flat rate? sheesh
[22:52:05] <dwc-> for that you might as well have the $500 laptops and just throw 'eem out and get a new one.
[22:53:00] <stevel> ouch. $500? that's steep
[22:53:25] <stevel> and i've not heard good things about Acer's service program so far
[22:53:28] <tomww> an 64-bit one for 500 ?
[22:53:45] * stevel thought he saw turion64 laptops in the $700 range
[22:54:20] <Error_404> you don't need 64 bit anyways
[22:54:24] <sickness> dell has just came out with a dual-core turion laptop!
[22:54:27] <Error_404> not on a laptop, in either case
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[22:54:47] <twincest> error: unless you use zfs ;-)
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[22:54:56] <sickness> lol
[22:55:09] <Error_404> yes, on both of the drives in the laptop...
[22:55:10] <richlowe> twincest: still bitter about that deadlock, huh?
[22:55:16] * Error_404 rolls eys
[22:55:29] <sickness> well, also if you want to test/experiment/programming/debugging on a 64bit system even if you have less than 4gb ram
[22:56:03] <twincest> error: and on your 700GB removable USB drives
[22:56:47] <tomww> i have no numbers, but running solaris on 64-bit (with zfs) is preferred.
[22:57:50] <twincest> plus with zfs coming, using it on a laptop's internal quite is quite feasible
[22:57:53] <Error_404> it's cool that 64 bit in the consumer space will push down prices, but i still maintain that for 90% of the people likely to get a 64 bit system, it's not needed
[22:59:00] <tomww> Error_404: what about 16 Bit. Would you run that one?
[22:59:16] <Error_404> no, because i'm likely to use more than that in ram
[22:59:16] <tomww> :-)  <<-- note the smilie
[22:59:17] <alanc> at the rate they're going, the high-end gamer video cards will need 64-bit just to access all their on-board VRAM in a couple more years
[22:59:26] <Error_404> but using more than 64 gigs is still years away
[22:59:46] <twincest> error: PAE is not a solution
[22:59:47] <alanc> especially if you use SLI/Crossfire to link multiple cards
[23:00:03] <twincest> error: the real-world limit for 32-bit systems is 4G
[23:00:28] <twincest> and that's very close, my laptop has 1GB and that's not even very much
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[23:03:55] <sommerfeld> but mroe practically, when you get up to 1-2G the shared VA space between kernel and user starts to hurt.
[23:05:15] <tomww> running out of address space against running out of real-hardware-memory/swapspace?
[23:13:05] <sommerfeld> right, and there are workloads where you run out of KVA space first...
[23:13:22] <twincest> (mmap)
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[23:15:45] <Plaidrab> Silly me. Filling up tmpfs
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[23:24:03] <Plaidrab> Can anyone point me at a good walkthrough on the BFU process for bringing my system "current"
[23:25:20] <pikapika> hello
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[23:33:10] <sickness> I go to bed
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[23:43:39] <toblun> Is there anyone that knows how to make a factory reset of a EonStor A16F-R1211?
[23:44:29] <toblun> I've been looking in the manuals without any luck
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[23:45:42] <thiemo> Moin
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[23:48:57] <dwc-> that sounds like something your vendor/reseller/infortrend should be able to tell you
[23:50:05] <toblun> Not at 23:49...
[23:50:50] <dwc-> that being said, I think there was a reset option when connected via serial console
[23:50:57] <dwc-> but I haven't been on it in a few years
[23:51:12] <dwc-> (and it was a different eonstor model)
[23:52:34] <toblun> There sould be a way to do it via the LCD-interface according to the FAQ. It tells me to look inte operation manual for futher instrucions.
[23:53:09] <toblun> The problem is that there is noting like restore to factory defaults in the manuals. =/
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[23:53:32] <dwc-> oh yea, those pesky menu things
[23:54:30] <toblun> I like the mute button tho ;)
[23:55:22] <toblun> I think I need to build a console cable





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