[00:00:00] <Error_404> i was gonna suggest SFU
[00:00:32] <twincest> samba is probably easier, it's even bundled with solaris
[00:02:14] <Error_404> does samba still obliterate permissions?
[00:05:25] <edp> Error_404, samba doesn't yet support zfs acls that i know of
[00:05:39] <edp> other than that i haven't noticed it screwing up permissions
[00:06:04] <Error_404> last i used it was ages ago, so i dunno
[00:06:47] <edp> though i usuaally prefer to just set the acls from the unix command line than from in windows
[00:06:48] <Error_404> but I remember back then it allowing user A to access user B's files even if they were marked X00
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[00:07:27] <edp> it drops down to the perms of the connected user before accessing files so that shouldn't happen anymore
[00:07:50] <edp> 'drops down to the perms' = changes users
[00:08:59] <edp> samba + zfs + ms shadow copy client makes for a very ccool combination
[00:11:05] <Error_404> ahh, so you can't quite use it in the same way you can NFS then
[00:11:23] <Error_404> which is to say, mount /home from a fileserver and have things stay intact
[00:11:52] <Error_404> ( /home/me and /home/mywife segregated in the typical UNIX way)
[00:11:53] <edp> i'm not sure actually
[00:12:16] <edp> i usually work in *nix to windows only
[00:12:52] <edp> i'd choose nfs over cifs though for anything unix
[00:12:53] <Error_404> i guess it's a moot point anyways, considering i don't use windows
[00:14:00] <edp> i admin 1100 xp desktops but try to avoid windows
[00:14:07] <edp> it just makes everything overly complicated
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[00:15:08] <edp> you used sfu at all?
[00:16:16] <Error_404> not really
[00:16:22] <Kronuz> hey
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[00:16:34] <Error_404> i set it up once or twice
[00:16:37] <Kronuz> where are the Sun servers and stuff made?
[00:16:46] <Kronuz> in the US, or china, or where?
[00:16:49] <Kronuz> (the hardware)
[00:16:50] <edp> made or assembled?
[00:17:00] <Kronuz> made, I suppose
[00:17:08] <Kronuz> they put a "Made in"
[00:17:09] <edp> i'm sure the parts come from all over the globe
[00:17:18] <Kronuz> yeah, but they put the "made in"
[00:17:38] <Kronuz> "made in whatever" label somewhere in the equipment, I would guess
[00:17:40] <Error_404> i'm sure the parts come mostly from the lowest bidder in southeast asia
[00:17:54] <jbk> depends
[00:17:59] <jbk> like for the 420s
[00:18:00] <Error_404> is AMD still malaysia only?
[00:18:07] <jbk> the cpu cartridges were made in england
[00:18:13] <jbk> i believe
[00:18:14] <edp> i thought amd had some US plants too
[00:18:35] <rpaulo> is anyone familiar with the tektronix xp114c X terminals?
[00:18:49] <Stric> fab 30 in dresden makes most of them nowadays
[00:18:54] <jbk> cpus are probably made whereever TI has fabs
[00:18:58] <jbk> (for sparc)
[00:19:01] <Kronuz> but anyway, they don't put "the processor made here, the memory made there" they just put a single label in the box or in the equipment
[00:19:13] <jbk> ram is bought from the major ram manfs
[00:19:36] <Error_404> Kronuz: my U2 doesn't have a "made in" label
[00:19:44] <Error_404> beyond that i don't have any Sun kit
[00:19:52] <Kronuz> not in the box either? do they even come in boxes? :P
[00:20:04] <jbk> i believe for the US, they are assembled in the US
[00:20:11] <jbk> but don't know about the other countries
[00:20:16] <Kronuz> that would be great
[00:20:19] <jbk> but the individual pieces are from all over
[00:20:26] <Kronuz> yeah, you bet
[00:20:27] <jbk> just do a prtfru :)
[00:20:32] <edp> out of curiosity, why does it matter?
[00:20:43] <Kronuz> just if I want to export the equipment
[00:20:47] <jbk> china, thailand, alabama, korea,
[00:20:48] <edp> ah
[00:20:59] <Kronuz> if it's made in USA is cheaper than if it's made in china
[00:21:09] <Kronuz> (to export to certain countries)
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[00:25:48] <edp> speaking of shipping.. thumper seems to cost around $500 to ship
[00:26:04] <jbk> well i imagine it's not particularly light
[00:26:58] <edp> specs say 170 pounds
[00:27:00] <jbk> and sun used to at least be *real* good about packaging servers
[00:27:12] <jbk> dunno about any recent stuff -- haven't seen what they ship in
[00:27:35] <Stric> v240/440s we've ordered came in good packaging
[00:27:41] <jbk> HP once sent us a rack full of boxes on a pallet
[00:28:00] <jbk> then to get them off. they just had some cheap ass folded sheet metal for ramps
[00:28:37] <jbk> with little ovals cut out of the edge of the pallet to stick them in
[00:28:45] <jbk> but the stuff was so heavy, it broke them off
[00:29:09] <jbk> the hp engineers on site were almost ready to start unracking them cause it weighed like 1500lbs
[00:29:23] <jbk> when we used one of the ramps that came with a 5500
[00:29:27] <sommerfeld> so, I saw discarded shipping material for a thumper.  heavy cardboard box fastened to a small pallet; box is a good deal larger than the unit, with closed-cell foam pieces all around...
[00:29:34] <jbk> worked like a charm
[00:29:52] <jbk> someone told the hp engineers '1-800-usa-4sun -- they'll teach you how to make those' :)
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[00:30:29] <sommerfeld> out of perverse curiosity I once took a look at the "site prep handbook" for either the E10k or F15k.  had a caution about rolling the racks over perforated floor tiles.  something tells me someone figured that out the hard way..
[00:30:38] <edp> dell pcs are apparently packaged well.. we had a pallet fall out the back of a delivery truck
[00:30:41] <jbk> haha
[00:31:06] <jbk> sommerfeld: one of my coworkers is a former sun fe, he told me about an e10k install where the freight elevator wasn't rated for the weight of the 10k
[00:31:19] <jbk> basically once in, the elevator sunk like a foot
[00:31:32] <jbk> they had to operate it manually to get it to line up with the floors :)
[00:31:37] <Error_404> i've seen video of some company using a building crane to get an e20k to the top floor
[00:31:46] <Stric> Old IBM SP/2 racks doesn't fit through a regular european door/elevator.. a few millimeters too high.. have to tilt it. Way to go, IBM.
[00:32:01] <Error_404> they must've knocked out a wall or something, it was going in to the side of the building
[00:32:08] <sommerfeld> and they were quite explicit: "just because it survived one pass doesn't mean it's strong enough to survive multiple passes.."
[00:32:34] <sommerfeld> Error_404: sounds like the sort of thing Death Wish Piano Movers will do..
[00:32:40] <Error_404> heh
[00:33:00] <Doc> a surprising number of large systems get installed via cranes and/or knocked down walls
[00:33:23] <sommerfeld> (that's a real piano moving company in the boston area.)
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[00:33:37] <Doc> and of course, you dont need to use a crane for there to be problems - http://www.docbert.org/f12k
[00:34:02] <sommerfeld> friend of mine has a vintage upright piano.  they used a crane to bring it both into and out of the 2nd floor apartment she lived in for a few years...
[00:34:20] <Doc> (for those on SWAN, http://docbert.aus/oops )
[00:35:34] <Error_404> gack
[00:35:41] <Error_404> hope someone got fired for that
[00:36:04] <sommerfeld> Doc: ouch.
[00:37:15] <Error_404> way to destroy half a million dollars worth of equipment FedEX
[00:37:21] <sommerfeld> Doc: I assume it got moved into the loading dock only because the packaging was too trashed to send back as-is?
[00:37:44] <Doc> that's the warehouse, not the loading dock
[00:37:53] <Doc> they were loading it onto the truck when it fell
[00:38:18] <sommerfeld> ah, so they weren't embarassed in front of the customer...
[00:38:30] <Doc> god help us if it had been at the other end - we were delivering it to one of the busiest streets in sydney in the middle of the day - that would have been a good look...
[00:38:46] <Error_404> what's with the guy in the first picture trying to push it over by hand?
[00:38:59] <Error_404> i doubt that'd work
[00:39:28] <Doc> haha.. no.. that's another one of our engineers, just after we'd arrived to see what they had done
[00:40:13] <Error_404> "it's still good, it's still good..."
[00:40:24] <Doc> photo 14 has the weight - 1270 kgs
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[00:40:38] <Doc> actually.. that photo is only on the SWAN version, not on the internet version
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[00:41:37] <Error_404> heh, picture of the "tip & tell" sticker
[00:41:44] <Error_404> yeah, it's on its side
[00:41:59] <Doc> hey, i had to take it - it was too funny not to :)
[00:42:25] <Error_404> i'm not criticising the picture :)
[00:42:44] <sommerfeld> not quite as embarassing as the mistake made by some folks working on a weather satellite a few years back: http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0410/04noaanreport/
[00:43:27] <Doc> i actually met the courier guy who did it a few months back (ie, about 2 years after it occured) and he was still embarrased about it
[00:44:18] <Error_404> I assume there's some sort of insurance for that sort of thing, so no real harm done
[00:44:39] <Error_404> (unless you're an insurance company, in which case that's what people pay you for so who cares)
[00:46:14] <sommerfeld> after lockmart dropped the satellite, there was a ~100 page investigation report..
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[00:47:18] <Error_404> I have very little sympathy for insurance companies
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[00:56:03] <stevel> gman: planet is fixed
[00:56:12] <stevel> (sorry it took so long, had a meeting)
[00:57:14] <g4lt-mordant> what, it took mankind two millennia to screw it up, what's another hour? ;P
[00:57:55] <sommerfeld> naw, we've been screwing it up for far longer than that...
[00:58:07] <Gman> stevel, sweet, thanks! :)
[00:58:29] <Gman> stevel, out of interest, what was the problem?
[00:58:45] <stevel> gman: permissions.  i moved the planet dir out of my home dir and into /export/web
[00:58:50] <stevel> which is really where it belongs anyway
[00:59:43] <Gman> sweet, thanks heaps, appreciate it ;)
[00:59:58] <Gman> i'm gonna announce the sucker now :)
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[01:06:07] <lloy0076> I've set up a SMF manifest according to http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/submitted/mysql_smf_tip.html and confirmed that the shell script /lib/svc/method/svc-mysql does start and stop mysql correctly...(confirmed by running it by hand)...but when I run: svcadm -v enable mysql OR svcadm -v enable -r mysql it acts as though the script is not being called at all.
[01:06:13] <lloy0076> (-r shows all dependencies being enabled)
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[01:07:22] <Doc> did you setup the service to run that script?
[01:07:26] <Doc> it will not do it automatically
[01:08:25] <sommerfeld> right, the manifest needs to list the method script by name as the start & stop properties.
[01:08:29] <lloy0076> There's an "exec_method" XML block in /var/lib/manifest/network/mysql if that's what you mean.
[01:09:34] <Gman> Planet OpenSolaris is now live! - http://grommit.com/pos/
[01:09:47] <Doc> pos?
[01:09:57] <sommerfeld> haha
[01:10:01] <Gman> planet open solaris
[01:10:07] <Doc> that's a really unfortunately acronym
[01:10:08] <sommerfeld> piece of s**t :-)
[01:10:11] <Gman> yeah
[01:10:14] <Gman> absolutely intended
[01:10:17] <Doc> unfortunate  even
[01:10:23] <Gman> so the tonic team will go 'oh wow, we need to change that'
[01:10:24] <Gman> :)
[01:10:38] <lloy0076> Doc: The exec_method with the "start" name attribute block in the mysql manifest is similar to the similar method block in network/physical and network/physical is working.
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[01:12:44] <Doc> cool.. seems my blog wasn't clasified as a POS :)
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[01:13:59] <sommerfeld> lloy0076: a couple things you can double check: use xmllint on the manifest
[01:14:08] <sommerfeld> and use svccfg to look at the actual property values
[01:14:26] <sommerfeld> select the service fmri, then do a "listprop"
[01:14:44] <sommerfeld> should see appropriate values in the start/exec and stop/exec properties
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[01:17:59] <lloy0076> I might have found the problem.
[01:18:18] <lloy0076> If I'm reading the man pages right, svcadm will try a restart. It seems that restart is causing the shell script to crash.
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[01:23:20] * lloy0076 sigh
[01:23:35] <lloy0076> I've now gotten the script to work with "restart"...
[01:23:45] <lloy0076> svccfg -s mysql listprop shows the right methods
[01:24:30] <lloy0076> And svcadm restart mysql OR svcadm enable mysql ... act as though they're not calling the methods at all (and xmllint doesn't complain; I've checked if xmllint is behaving itself by putting in a piece of bogus XML which it did pick up so I assume that xmllint is checking right)
[01:26:26] <lloy0076> ...
[01:26:28] <lloy0076> Confound it!
[01:26:36] <lloy0076> Found the problem.
[01:26:53] <lloy0076> The "credential" elements were causing it to not start correctly.
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[01:32:01] <lloy0076> Anyway, off to reboot to see if these changes worked.
[01:32:06] <lloy0076> Ta for the help :)
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[01:39:04] <gisburn> !seen AlHopper
[01:39:06] <Drone> AlHopper (AlHopper!n=chatzill at logical dot logical-approach.com) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 14 Jun 2006 20:17 GMT, saying 'stefanp: it's becoming an increasing issue ... some Northbridges are already dissipating 20Watts ... and rising!'.
[01:39:25] <gisburn> june ?
[01:39:28] <gisburn> grumpf
[01:43:57] <Gman> hey sch0
[01:44:40] <sch0> Gman: hey there
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[01:53:11] <sch0> Gman: how do I publish a picture to pos?
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[01:53:36] <sch0> Gman, stevel: nice work, btw.
[01:53:38] <Gman> sch0, send it to me, and i'll add you
[01:53:49] <Gman> sch0, unless you have an account on grommit.com and you can do it yourself
[01:54:05] <Gman> [or send it to steve]
[01:54:07] <stevel> sch0: thanks, gman did all the hard work.  i just untar'd the planet code and setup the cron job :-P
[01:54:22] <sch0> Gman: Ok, I'll go crop something.
[01:54:40] * Gman just copied planetgnome css and changed a few bits - the hard part is editing it :)
[01:54:48] <Gman> sch0, sweet
[01:58:44] <gisburn> Gman: great, now all your context is under the GPL!
[01:58:56] <gisburn> s/context/content/
[01:59:10] <gisburn> =:-)
[01:59:21] <Gman> indeed.
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[02:08:43] <Gman> stevel, anyway you can redirect the cronjob to mail me/you instead?
[02:08:52] <stevel> sure. who's it mailing?
[02:08:59] <Gman> [at my sun mail rather than glynn at grommit dot com]
[02:09:03] <stevel> ahhh
[02:09:12] <stevel> yeah
[02:09:17] <Gman> thanks dude
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[02:09:52] <stevel> okay should be done
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[02:10:13] * Gman needs to get the customized search stuff done too
[02:10:15] <Gman> stevel, ta
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[02:14:22] <Axposf> bye all
[02:14:25] <Axposf> :)
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[02:16:38] <regx> hey
[02:16:56] <regx> im trying to install on a scsi server..and durring install it tells me NO DISKS FOUND..
[02:17:02] <regx> do i need to do anything special?!?!
[02:18:04] <ShadowHntr> what's the scsi chipset
[02:18:13] <regx> uh
[02:18:22] <regx> not sure lemme try and findout
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[02:20:09] <regx> hmm
[02:20:16] <regx> its a Compaq Proliant 8500
[02:20:27] <ShadowHntr> tried checking the Sun HCL?
[02:20:28] <regx> integrated smart array controller
[02:20:59] <ShadowHntr> regx: check the solarisx86 mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solarisx86/
[02:21:07] <ShadowHntr> they'll probably be able to help you there. great support resource.
[02:21:18] <ShadowHntr> very active.
[02:21:21] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 51a (sparc) / 51 (x86) | ON build: 51 | ON nightly: 20061113"
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[02:25:47] <regx> Profusion chipset
[02:25:58] <ShadowHntr> hmmm
[02:26:01] <ShadowHntr> never heard of that one before.
[02:31:26] <regx> k hold on
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[02:39:06] <gisburn> is svn.genunix.org slow right now ?
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[02:53:26] <beck> hello
[02:53:46] <dlg> bob?
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[02:54:43] <beck> is it possible to unpack a sunfreeware package without being root ?
[02:55:00] <beck> and , if its possible to do something like a CRLE temporary without being root
[02:55:07] <beck> i need to install 'expect'
[02:55:09] <beck> but im not root
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[03:07:24] <regx> :*(
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[03:07:28] <regx> i wanna install solaris on this box
[03:07:47] <regx> where is the HCL located?
[03:08:12] <jamesd>  www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl
[03:08:13] <jamesd> brb
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[03:08:44] <twincest> note that the hcl is mostly contributed rather than authorative
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[03:19:14] <nachox> what do you guys use to shrink windows partitions to install solaris? something like knoppix?
[03:19:44] <delewis> Partition Magic would do the job, as well, but I doubt a lot of us actually dual-boot a system to begin with.
[03:19:56] <delewis> (I certainly don't)
[03:21:07] <jamesd> vmware is a much better solution than dual booting
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[03:21:57] <nachox> i would rather haveing a native solaris wunning here
[03:22:08] <nachox> *running
[03:22:36] <jafari> hola all
[03:22:55] <jafari> can you use ipfilter to rdr a port to a group of ips like 113 for ident?
[03:23:46] <jafari> some times i use my other boxes to go on irc but once i have port 113 rdr to one box the others dont work?
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[03:28:26] * boyd wonders why you would run an identd that tells the truth anyway
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[03:51:22] <boyd> Hmm... christian neukirchen has said this today "Sun is considering GPL for OpenSolaris, that?s great because of: ZFS, DTrace, and watching Schily bite into his ass."
[03:52:31] <boyd> Shame... normally I agree with him
[03:52:34] <jmcp> boyd: clearly he has his head up his rear
[03:52:39] <jmcp> morning one-n-all
[03:52:54] <boyd> jmcp!!! how's the warm city of Beijing
[03:52:56] <boyd> ?
[03:53:12] <jmcp> not too bad actually
[03:53:20] <jmcp> got lost getting to the office this morning :(
[03:53:26] <Gman> haha
[03:53:31] <boyd> That's easy :)
[03:53:32] <Gman> oh dude
[03:53:36] <Gman> say hi to stephen browne
[03:53:40] <Gman> he's also over there
[03:53:43] <Gman> works for the jds team
[03:53:44] <jmcp> decided to walk ... not necessarily the best idea ....map ran out of streets and wound up on the other side of Qinghua uni
[03:53:45] <jamesd> are you getting enough chinese food, that they just call food?
[03:53:47] <dlg> jmcp!
[03:53:48] <jmcp> Gman: will do
[03:53:57] <Gman> you guys should have lunch :)
[03:53:57] <jmcp> jamesd: haven't eaten anything yet, just had coffee
[03:54:08] <jmcp> really looking forward to lunch
[03:54:11] <jmcp> dlg: hiya!
[03:54:14] <Gman> jmcp, only out for a week, but my boss [leo] is also out there for longer
[03:54:23] <Gman> jmcp, and a whole bunch of jds folk head out next week :)
[03:54:31] <jmcp> excellent
[03:54:34] <jmcp> I fly back on 1st dec
[03:55:56] <Gman> notified the jds dudes too
[03:58:39] <jafari> can you use ipfilter to rdr a port to a group of ips like 113 for ident?
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[03:59:43] <dlg> jafari: how does it know which one host in the group it should forward to?
[03:59:59] <dlg> jafari: you might be looking for something like oidentd
[04:00:02] <dlg> if i recall correctly
[04:00:07] <dlg> its been so long since i used ipf
[04:00:11] <boyd> or nullidentd
[04:01:48] * jmcp ducks out for a bit
[04:02:30] <boyd> Wow... someone on /. mentioning that backward compatibility may be important!
[04:03:20] <dlg> boyd: there is no way that could happen
[04:03:44] <boyd> It's like, a whole article... I haven't read the comments. Seldom do.
[04:07:15] <jafari> oh
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[04:11:20] <dwc-> if a smart-sounding comment is on /., it was an accident
[04:11:38] <jbk> heh
[04:12:17] * jbk liked it before they starting showing the hostname of a site next to a link
[04:12:21] <jbk> :)
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[04:13:26] <delewis> boyd: and if you haven't noticed, most lusers tend to equate the backwards compatibility features of Windows with the backards compatibility features of something like Solaris, and thus, arriving at the conclusion that backwards compatibility sucks, period.
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[04:14:10] <delewis> which is obviously silly, and just the sort of thing you'd expect from a luser.
[04:28:00] <jmcp> this is nuts - since my account was re-enabled last week all those opensolaris mailing lists that I'm on have started sending me mail again!
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[04:28:21] <jmcp> *and* there's a tech writer who needs to me send something to her about a bug I worked on in March
[04:28:22] <jmcp> feh
[04:28:23] <jmcp> :)
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[04:29:23] <Gman> jmcp, welcome back :)
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[04:38:16] <jmcp> Gman: :)
[04:38:19] <jmcp> the fun never stops
[04:39:17] <jamesd> if you drink the water, it won't be the only thing that doesn't stop
[04:39:40] <jbk> haha
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[04:43:05] <jmcp> jamesd: :)
[04:43:22] <jmcp> so far it's been ok, but I brought some anti ring of fire stuff just in case
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[05:02:51] <twincest> that's a great error.. 'expected ";"' with the arrow pointing to "};"
[05:04:10] <gisburn> twincest: which lanuage ?
[05:04:24] <twincest> C++
[05:04:39] <gisburn> maybe it wants ; } ; // ?
[05:05:00] <twincest> nah, there was a missing { previously
[05:05:11] <twincest> but the error was amusing :)
[05:06:34] * gisburn has a not so amusing problem right now.
[05:07:28] <dlg> ugh, c++
[05:07:41] <gisburn> either a) get an ARC exception for the getconf builtin or b) disband the ksh93-integration project
[05:08:18] <dlg> port ksh from openbsd
[05:08:32] <gisburn> dlg: I am not in the mood for this kind of jokes
[05:08:43] <dlg> im not kidding
[05:08:52] <gisburn> grumpf
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[05:09:00] <dlg> aww
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[05:36:04] <Xaero_Vincent> Is opensolaris really gonna go GPL?
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[05:36:41] <Error_404> what? why would they do that?
[05:36:44] <Xaero_Vincent> wouldnt that be a bad idea, since linux could then just take all of Solaris's features?
[05:37:11] <Error_404> naw, linux'd halfass them & it'd break most of the time
[05:37:23] <Xaero_Vincent> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9005018
[05:37:31] <Error_404> those monkeys can't seem to do anything right
[05:38:01] <jbk> the problem is there are pieces (such as, but not limited to device drivers) that sun cannot open source, no matter how much it wants to
[05:38:26] <jbk> this pretty much makes it impossible to use the GPL
[05:39:19] <jbk> which is my understanding one of the big reasons for the CDDL (which is really just the mozilla license cleaned up a bit)
[05:39:36] <Xaero_Vincent> well according to the article, Sun may "consider" it after GPLing Java.
[05:39:46] <Xaero_Vincent> anyway..just curious
[05:40:06] <jbk> i really don't see the problem with the current license
[05:40:19] <jbk> the only criticism people can seem to come up with is 'it's not the gpl'
[05:40:35] <Xaero_Vincent> im not really a solaris user.. I use Nexenta sometimes.. but it does include optional OpenSolaris tools
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[05:42:17] <jbk> it sounds like there is a possibly the gplv3 *might* address the license incompatibilities between the two... that'd be the only possible thing i could think of what might have been meant
[05:42:30] <Xaero_Vincent> I'd think going GPL would be bad thing.. as that is an easy way for Linux to gain ZFS, DTrace, etc.
[05:42:45] <jbk> well again
[05:43:02] <jbk> linux is already trying to (poorly) mimic features (like dtrace)
[05:43:34] <Xaero_Vincent> although im a linux user (SUSE), I can see why Sun wouldnt want to merely help accelerate linux development
[05:43:52] <Xaero_Vincent> oh is it?
[05:44:04] <Xaero_Vincent> I heard BSD was getting something like that
[05:44:06] <jbk> i can't remember what they're calling it
[05:44:13] <twincest> systemtap
[05:44:14] <jbk> well bsd is porting dtrace
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[05:44:17] <jbk> ahh yes
[05:44:55] <jbk> the problem is, it sounds like the linux developers either don't care about the safety of it, don't understand the halting problem, or think they can solve it
[05:45:04] <jbk> based on some of their design decisions
[05:45:06] <Gman> even if dtrace was available, you still probably wouldn't see linux using it
[05:45:39] <Gman> and porting various bits of solaris would be tricky i'd imagine
[05:45:42] <jbk> and someone is porting zfs to fuse
[05:45:50] <twincest> it would be nice if the various BSD variants took the nice solaris features and started gaining some of linux's users
[05:45:52] <dlg> linux doesnt ship with a kernel debugger by default
[05:45:59] <twincest> i'm fed up of hearing about linux everywhere :)
[05:46:03] <dlg> its like they dont want people to examine the kernel at runtime
[05:46:08] * dlg agree with twincest
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[05:46:41] <g4lt-mordant> well, at least we'd get rid of schilly ;P
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[05:47:12] <Xaero_Vincent> the problem with BSD though is if it starts gaining new features and lots of users... companies like Microsoft could just take those features and rival them in their products.
[05:47:33] <Xaero_Vincent> Microsoft has already did this with some of the networking stack code
[05:47:39] <twincest> so?
[05:47:42] <jbk> but again, they don't have the experts, the experience that comes with it
[05:48:07] <jbk> and if they're basically sitting around copying what others are doing, they're not coming up with the next thing
[05:49:12] <delewis> Xaero_Vincent: and the stack *still* sucks.
[05:49:22] <delewis> according to a few people I've heard from
[05:49:38] <twincest> is this the "microsoft used freebsd network code" thing?
[05:49:42] <Xaero_Vincent> It shouldnt be easy for Microsoft to leech FOSS code without contributing anything back, except patent litegation ofcourse
[05:49:52] <twincest> i thought the people who even cared about that when it happened would have stopped by now
[05:50:15] <Xaero_Vincent> something*
[05:50:29] <delewis> twincest: obviously not :-)
[05:50:40] <twincest> (guess what: Sun and every other Unix vendor has done the same thing for years and years)
[05:51:15] <twincest> .. except Coherent, i guess
[05:51:23] <twincest> so we should all use coherent from now on
[05:52:38] <Xaero_Vincent> it discontinued in 1994
[05:52:48] <Xaero_Vincent> yea.. lets use it ;)
[05:52:57] <twincest> oh drat.  and i was *so* actually going to use it.
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[06:22:37] <sahafeez> good evening all from san diego airport
[06:23:17] <sahafeez> the reaction to java gpl2 is quite funny to watch ;)
[06:23:36] <vaneth> Morning ;>
[06:24:20] <Error_404> sahafeez: you mean the people getting greedy & wanting everything sun makes as gpl?
[06:25:24] <sahafeez> just reading the comments on OS news.
[06:27:40] <sahafeez> can i just say how cool it is to have my mac talk bluetooth to my phone to get to the net..
[06:29:55] <sahafeez> reading jamesd post now ;)
[06:34:45] <jamesd> :-)
[06:36:53] <sahafeez> wonder how well a sling box works on celluar dialup
[06:38:49] <sahafeez> ok, i am watching my friends tv in phx via a bluetooth connection to my cell phone via his sling box.
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[06:42:52] <richlowe> Gman: nice.
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[06:59:39] * boyd shakes his head.... Freakin' IBM are *still* complaining about Java licensing
[06:59:50] <Error_404> heh
[06:59:53] <tassieboy> haha, yeah I saw that too
[06:59:55] <Error_404> what did they want?
[07:00:00] <richlowe> a pony, I'd assume.
[07:00:18] <dlg> they probably want a bsd like license
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[07:00:40] <dlg> so they can take it and do their own things without returning code
[07:01:02] <jmcp> dlg: just like they've done with openoffice/staroffice
[07:01:13] <boyd> "issued a statement yesterday calling for Sun to dual-license Java so that organizations like Apache, which use more permissive licenses, can incorporate Java source code"
[07:01:27] <jmcp> boyd: they're full of shit
[07:01:36] <boyd> Tell me about it
[07:01:37] <dlg> ugh
[07:01:55] <jmcp> boyd: seems like the IBM folks I met at the previous gig are just the same
[07:02:04] <boyd> I love this line: 'Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz responded by saying, "I find it a little curious that IBM would oppose the GPL. I sure wouldn't want to see them turning their back on the open source community."'
[07:02:35] <richlowe> afternoon(?) jmcp.
[07:02:38] <jmcp> richlowe: hi!
[07:02:41] <dlg> HAHAHAHAHA
[07:02:43] <dlg> MFI LIVES!!
[07:02:44] <jmcp> yes, it's afternoon here in Beijing
[07:02:45] <dlg> :D :D
[07:03:10] <richlowe> jmcp: You wrong-hemisphere guys need to stay still, it's hard enough recall the offsets as it is, never mind when you start migrating :)
[07:03:17] <Error_404> i think IBM just hates sun
[07:03:20] <Error_404> *shrug*
[07:03:21] <jmcp> richlowe: muahahahahaha it's all part of an evil plan
[07:03:26] <jmcp> Error_404: of course they do.
[07:03:35] <Error_404> f*ck 'em, let's get Solaris working on POWER
[07:03:42] <Error_404> that'll annoy the crap out of IBM
[07:04:24] <jmcp> Error_404: yeah. and not just the genesi/freescale-level POWER chips, but the real big-arse ones
[07:04:56] <delewis> Genesi and Freescale do not sell POWER chips
[07:04:59] <delewis> they sell PowerPC
[07:05:32] <delewis> and I presume the Genesi/Freescale hardware is not CHRP-compliant.
[07:05:47] <jmcp> delewis: you know what I meant
[07:05:48] <boyd> Yeah, anyone who reads planetsolaris hears enough about them
[07:06:14] <jmcp> delewis: having OpenSolaris on POWER would *really* provide some choice for customers
[07:06:15] <richlowe> boyd: pos!
[07:06:36] * boyd thinks about boycotting pos since his blog was passed over :)
[07:06:43] <jmcp> boyd: thwap Gman
[07:07:02] <delewis> jmcp: which I doubt any customers would care about, given the majority of pSeries implementations tend to be done by VARs and Global Services who will recommend AIX to the client.
[07:07:15] <Error_404> jmcp: way I figgure it, PowerPC is a first step, it'll get solaris working enough to start working on POWER
[07:07:16] <jmcp> yeah, but the publicity ..... :)
[07:07:17] <boyd> Since I average about 1 post / 2 months it's not a great loss to the community :)
[07:08:23] <richlowe> there's also the occaisional mention of s390.
[07:08:55] <jmcp> richlowe: clearly a product of deranged minds
[07:09:13] <boyd> richlowe: What, Solaris/s390 ?
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[07:10:22] <richlowe> last I saw mention was on osol-code, regarding the bop_xxxxx interfaces.
[07:10:40] <boyd> Wow.
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[07:22:25] <tassieboy> hey jmcp
[07:22:36] <jmcp> tassieboy: hiya
[07:22:37] <tassieboy> I got that job as the UQ Campus Ambassador for Sun
[07:22:42] <tassieboy> :)
[07:22:42] <jmcp> tassieboy: how's the opensolaris eval going for you?
[07:22:45] <jmcp> excellent
[07:22:51] * jmcp channels Monty Burns
[07:23:21] <tassieboy> jmcp: I'm currently working on final exams and will start on opensolaris after this weekend (and Sun make the payment needed for it all to my uni)
[07:23:30] <jmcp> that's great news
[07:23:34] <jmcp> good luck with the exams
[07:23:39] <tassieboy> thanks for that :)
[07:24:01] <tassieboy> I've got a friend doing the OpenSolaris stuff with me - he'll be working 5 days a week though while I work 2-ish
[07:24:13] <tassieboy> thanks very much for all the advice and references you gave me :)
[07:24:31] <Error_404> sun doesn't offer that program for my school
[07:24:52] <Error_404> despite that they're a sun shop thinking of becoming a non-sun shop
[07:24:57] <tassieboy> apparently there are 170 schools in 30 countries
[07:25:06] <jmcp> tassieboy: you're more than welcome
[07:25:18] <jmcp> tassieboy: next time I come north we'll have to have coffee
[07:25:19] <jmcp> or a beer
[07:25:34] <tassieboy> jmcp: a beer sounds like a plan ;)
[07:25:35] <Error_404> not at UNorthernBC there's not
[07:25:51] <jmcp> tassieboy: unfortunately I'm no longer a member of the UQStaff club :(
[07:25:58] <jmcp> Error_404: cos it freezes?
[07:26:04] <Error_404> i suppose
[07:26:21] <tassieboy> jmcp: I don't think they care too much :P they had a special for $4 goon the other day - the sign actually advertised "goon"
[07:26:25] <jmcp> Error_404: spirits instead?
[07:26:39] <boyd> tassieboy: Haha!
[07:26:42] <jmcp> tassieboy: long gone are the days of student associations advertising "tea and biscuits" .....
[07:26:55] <tassieboy> now it's all beer and pizza
[07:27:01] <tassieboy> I gotta say - it's a change for the better
[07:27:24] <jmcp> as long as the pizzas are not thick-based
[07:28:04] <tassieboy> haha, when you're a poor student you got to go thick-based, get your money's worth ;)
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[07:29:19] <Error_404> jmcp: talk someone @ sun in to extending the student ambassador progarm to UNBC
[07:29:22] <Error_404> *nod*
[07:29:30] <jmcp> Error_404: I'll see what I can do
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[07:32:46] <Gman> boyd, heh, i did talk to you about that
[07:32:51] <Gman> it's part of our 'strong editorial policy'
[07:33:08] * Gman wants people on pos that are involved in opensolaris
[07:33:13] <boyd> Yeah, yeah... (What *is* the policy, BTW?)
[07:33:22] <Gman> doing stuff
[07:33:40] <boyd> Ah... oh *that* policy :)
[07:33:47] * jmcp re-caffeinates
[07:33:52] <Gman> though i'll admit that does sound a bit elitest
[07:34:52] <Gman> opens up for people commiting code, but also doing things like being involved in the marketing or user groups and stuff
[07:35:07] * boyd nods
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[07:36:28] <boyd> Hey by the way, I have an idea... Is there any resource which lists features by build for both nevada and Solaris? Would people find that handy?
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[07:37:09] <richlowe> features by-build, look at putbacks and/or headsups.
[07:37:17] <richlowe> solaris express, match express release->build.
[07:37:27] <richlowe> solaris itself, I guess you're stuck using the documentation.
[07:37:45] <boyd> Yeah, I'm thinking more for an end-user kinda thing.. in one big table or similar
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[07:38:24] <richlowe> I guess it maybe handy, but I suspect it's a bunch more work than it seems.
[07:38:40] <boyd> You may be right
[07:39:42] <Gman> richlowe, so is the weekly news letter :)
[07:39:52] <delewis> the headsup pages tend to do a fairly good job, (provided someone bothered to put up an ARC case page describing it)
[07:40:05] * boyd agrees with that particular peeve
[07:40:23] <richlowe> boyd: for Nevada based bits, it shouldn't be bad at all.
[07:40:30] <Gman> a bunch of people already provide it in their blogs
[07:40:30] <richlowe> but you'd have to figure out 10 based on the release notes.
[07:40:37] <richlowe> or trying everything and seeing which worked :)
[07:40:38] <boyd> It's still amazing how many people are asking in mailing lists about those kinda things..
[07:40:39] <Gman> so could be good to capture that somewhere more formally
[07:40:53] <delewis> Gman: yes, but it's annoying to have that information so far away and dispersed.
[07:41:00] <delewis> rather than a direct link from the headsup page
[07:41:19] <boyd> I also thought about capturing even those things like and email saying "We're currently hoping to have that go in around update 4"
[07:41:34] <boyd> s/and/an
[07:41:49] <boyd> ... but I can't read all the threads
[07:42:16] <Gman> delewis, yep
[07:42:56] <richlowe> Gman: while you're around.
[07:43:07] <richlowe> Gman: do you guys already have a CR wanting a better way to handle dbus in zones than erroring out the start method?
[07:43:22] <richlowe> (like, say, disabling the service if it notices it's zoned, rather than just dropping it to maint?)
[07:43:45] <boyd> richlowe: good question
[07:51:43] <richlowe> Yeah, 6466379
[07:51:59] <richlowe> that's the first one b.o.o has found that google site:bugs.opensolaris.org <terms> hasn't. :)
[07:53:33] <Gman> richlowe, yeah, i think so - comay filed something a while back
[07:53:44] <Gman> not 100% sure it's the same bug..
[07:54:06] <richlowe> Yeah, I figured I should probably try the search with b.o.o as well. :)
[07:58:38] <Gman> richlowe, 6466379
[07:59:15] <Gman> svc:/system/dbus:default goes into maintenance mode in zones
[07:59:22] <richlowe> Gman: see above :)
[08:00:04] <Gman> richlowe, ah, doh
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[09:01:06] <djgregor> welcome back
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[09:07:04] <Doc> heh.. Sun opensources the UltraSPARC-T1. Intel fights back by releasing the 4004
[09:08:11] <trygvis> url?
[09:08:26] <tsoome> T1 is already opensourced
[09:10:26] <asyd> well, I have a stupid question. But, it is really useful to opensource a processor ?
[09:12:11] <trygvis> sure, at least for the academic world
[09:12:28] <asyd> hmm ok
[09:12:37] <trygvis> the GPL fits the academic world pretty nice so basic academic work on GPL work makes sense to me
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[09:16:11] <jmcp> Doc: that's kinda balanced in a way
[09:16:22] <jmcp> Doc: Sun clearly thinks more of its IP than Intel
[09:17:53] <Triskelios> does anyone know when the suspend-to-ram/suspend-to-disk support will be available in a public gate?
[09:21:13] <richlowe> jmcp: and the FP support is about equal ;)
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[09:34:14] <jmcp> richlowe: I still wonder whether the origins of the Pentium approximation bug are there in the 4004
[09:37:59] * dlg stretch
[09:42:40] <Doc> tsoome: isnt that what i said?
[09:43:25] <tsoome> seems so;) too early for brain to work ok and english is not my first language;)
[09:43:53] <tsoome> whitch reminds me to go for a coffe;)
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[10:31:26] <raph_ael> hello
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[10:39:56] <asyd> anyone know in which packets holds non C locales
[10:40:35] <asyd> hmm I think I found
[10:41:00] <richlowe> they're generally in a package with a category similar to l10n<countrycode>
[10:41:27] <asyd> thanks
[10:42:06] <Gman> jmcp, dude, no good on the hackergotchi - see planet.gnome.org for examples of what we're looking for :)
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[10:42:13] <jmcp> oh
[10:42:14] <jmcp> darn
[10:42:16] <Gman> :)
[10:42:19] <richlowe> and it has to look as little like you as both Gman's and stevel's do. ;)
[10:42:31] <Gman> hey
[10:42:36] <Gman> richlowe, how do you know what i look like ?:)
[10:42:45] <jmcp> Gman: so what do I need to change?
[10:42:51] <richlowe> Gman: ... you've blogged photos before.
[10:42:58] <Gman> just get a photograph of yourself
[10:43:01] <Gman> cut out the head
[10:43:03] <jmcp> richlowe: I've already munged it through gimp's oil painting thing
[10:43:06] <Gman> add some drop shadow
[10:43:11] <jmcp> oh, right
[10:43:13] <jmcp> hmm
[10:43:18] <Gman> jmcp, look at the hackergotchi wikipedia link
[10:43:19] <jmcp> that'll take me a bit
[10:43:20] <Gman> there's some tutorials there
[10:43:25] <Gman> yeah ;)
[10:43:46] <Gman> i did my bro -
[10:43:48] <Gman> http://grommit.com/pos/heads/timf.png
[10:43:54] <jmcp> hm
[10:44:01] <Gman> that sort of style
[10:44:10] <richlowe> Gman: I see you added me onto the dbus CR. :)
[10:44:18] <Gman> yeah, thought it might be useful
[10:44:19] <richlowe> Gman: in direct contravention of what the other bug said! :)
[10:44:33] * Gman just cc's richlowe on any bugs he asks for
[10:44:46] <richlowe> I stopped asking, after the interest-list bug :)
[10:44:51] <Gman> heh
[10:45:00] <Gman> the interest-list bug is total bollox
[10:45:08] <Gman> afaics, i'm ignoring it
[10:45:57] <PosixC> where I can download the source for iscsiadm?
[10:45:58] <PosixC> I know that it is in cvs.opensolaris.org,
[10:45:58] <PosixC> but I downloaded opensolaris from october 23 2006,
[10:45:58] <PosixC> and it is not there. (for example, grepping for
[10:45:58] <PosixC> iscsiadm.c).
[10:46:07] <richlowe> iscsiadm is in NWS
[10:46:10] <richlowe> as I said yesterday.
[10:46:12] <richlowe> not ON.
[10:46:47] <richlowe> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/nwsc/src/sun_nws/iscsiadm/
[10:47:32] <richlowe> Wow, and there's a fairly recent drop from them too.
[10:47:34] <PosixC> richlowe, I know you said it; is there a way to download nws
[10:47:35] <richlowe> jmcp: they must be scared of you :)
[10:47:42] <richlowe> PosixC: dlc.sun.com/osol/nws/downloads
[10:47:46] <jmcp> richlowe: who?
[10:47:52] <PosixC> richlowe, thnks .
[10:50:00] * richlowe is still wondering why the initiator is in NWS, but the target in ON
[10:50:08] <richlowe> I guess it's probably best not to speculate.
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[10:52:12] <jmcp> richlowe: politics, mainly
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[10:53:01] <trygvis> wom 21
[10:53:12] * jmcp heads
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[10:53:23] <jmcp> gnite all
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[11:42:02] <boyd> Wow... I just read this is -code "...and we'd need the DWARF fix too for when
[11:42:08] <boyd> GCC is the primary compiler"
[11:42:16] <boyd> What's up with that?
[11:44:33] <richlowe> Studio spits out stabs, I vaguely recall because of a DWARF-ish bug in either venus or vulcan.
[11:44:41] <richlowe> gcc is using dwarf.
[11:44:51] <richlowe> When gcc is the shadow compiler, it's objects are tossed out, so not ctfized.
[11:44:58] <richlowe> however, if gcc was used as the primary compiler, they would need to be ctfized.
[11:45:00] <boyd> Actually it was the "when GCC is the primary compiler" part
[11:45:09] <richlowe> So the same iissue applicable to dwarf needs to be fixed also.
[11:45:15] <richlowe> boyd: in the "not shadow" sense.
[11:45:24] <richlowe> boyd: not in the "fuck studio" sense.
[11:45:34] <boyd> So more "a" priimary compiler, not "the"
[11:45:45] <boyd> ?
[11:46:02] <richlowe> There can be only one! ;)
[11:46:13] <richlowe> But yeah.
[11:46:32] <boyd> Heh.. ok, a co-primary :)
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[13:04:35] <razrX> w
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[13:04:59] <alphakiller> hello :)
[13:05:33] <bougie> hello :)
[13:06:00] <alphakiller> any kernel developer around ??
[13:07:02] <trygvis> just ask
[13:07:31] <alphakiller> nah, I'd like to know a bit more about OpenSolaris
[13:07:39] <alphakiller> for now, I'm just a homebrew OS developer
[13:07:40] <alphakiller> :0
[13:08:06] <trygvis> then you should get the solaris internals book
[13:11:56] <tsoome> and probably how to write dev. drivers book from docs.
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[13:13:54] <dlg> heh
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[13:23:02] <OnkelSchorsch> housten, we got a problem. sun support asked me to send the explorer output to a special email adress explo at sun dot com or something.
[13:23:11] * OnkelSchorsch can't remember the exact adress :(
[13:23:17] <OnkelSchorsch> aeh, address
[13:23:20] <OnkelSchorsch> sorry
[13:25:44] <Cyrille> OnkelSchorsch: http://blogs.sun.com/Doc/category/Explorer
[13:26:47] <Cyrille> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-6614/6n8k8pjc6?a=view
[13:28:58] <OnkelSchorsch> thanks.
[13:29:18] <OnkelSchorsch> the email address, the support guy gave me was way shorter though
[13:29:24] <OnkelSchorsch> only one syllable :(
[13:29:58] <OnkelSchorsch> ah. he send me a mail. I know the adress now
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[13:30:05] <OnkelSchorsch> and it's not in the docs :D
[13:30:17] * OnkelSchorsch sends kisses to cyrille
[13:30:18] <tsoome> it's in explorer docs
[13:30:43] <Cyrille> please tell me you're a woman ;-)
[13:30:46] <tsoome> and in config as well
[13:31:06] <tsoome> :D
[13:31:09] <OnkelSchorsch> really? epa at sun dot com?
[13:31:40] <tsoome> ah no not this one:)
[13:31:41] <regx> hi
[13:31:49] <OnkelSchorsch> hehe
[13:32:00] <PerterB> that's two syllables :)
[13:32:00] <OnkelSchorsch> cyrille, why? are you a lesbian? :D
[13:32:17] * OnkelSchorsch uses his fingers to count
[13:32:20] <OnkelSchorsch> true
[13:32:21] <OnkelSchorsch> :(
[13:32:43] <Cyrille> no, because despite what you may have thought, I happen to be a man and prefer my kisses from women ;-)
[13:33:08] <lasseoe> you prefer.. so you're open minded then? :-P
[13:33:13] <tsoome> :D
[13:33:17] <OnkelSchorsch> hehe.
[13:33:56] <quasi> *grmbl* bloody sunsolve
[13:34:01] <lasseoe> indeed
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[13:36:19] * quasi would have liked to know what some of these suggested patches were supposed to do
[13:37:55] <richlowe> bah, no sense of adventure :)
[13:38:30] <Berny> who reads readmes anyway?
[13:38:38] * quasi does
[13:38:52] * regx does
[13:38:59] <richlowe>  though there is the symbol versioning snafu that affects useradd.
[13:39:03] <Cyrille> ah! next thing you know, you're going to claim to read docs and man pages, yeah right.
[13:39:04] <richlowe> or whatever it is delewis and dclarke hit.
[13:39:26] <lasseoe> richlowe: yes, very annoying :(
[13:39:37] <lasseoe> Got that the other day
[13:39:58] <richlowe> delewis, I think, figured out which to back out to rectify it, I believe.
[13:40:05] <richlowe> someone did, anyway.
[13:40:27] <lasseoe> I looked at it briefly and decided it would be quicker for me to just reinstall the entire box, including all my JES zones
[13:40:38] <lasseoe> which I had _JUST_ finished configuring
[13:40:39] <richlowe> 6490476
[13:40:42] <lasseoe> C'est la vie :)
[13:40:55] <lasseoe> richlowe: nevada or S10 as well ?
[13:41:02] <lasseoe> oh never mind, obvious
[13:41:10] <Berny> 	celery?
[13:41:36] <regx> any one know how to create brandz installs? so i can install my own rolled distro into a zone?
[13:42:03] <Berny> anyone knows when i can go punchin?
[13:42:06] <richlowe> lasseoe: that CR has the patch to back out, the one it's closed duplicate of says which KU you need to really fix it.
[13:42:10] <lasseoe> richlowe: thanks
[13:42:43] * lasseoe "patiently" waits for sunsolve
[13:44:48] <Berny> while talking about patching... would anyone happen to know why my local patchserver isn't able to get patches from sun? it complains about being unable to get a session or if it downloads something fails to verify the signature of the patch...
[13:45:27] <quasi> lasseoe: the patch that busts zones?
[13:45:38] <lasseoe> quasi: kills useradd/userdel
[13:45:47] <quasi> lasseoe: ah
[13:46:51] <lasseoe> which was sort of inconvenient when you find out in the middle of installing JES Messaging Server :)
[13:47:09] <quasi> I had 122663-06 busting zones not too long ago and it didn't want to uninstall because it couldn't start the local zones
[13:47:44] <lasseoe> not even using pathrm -R  ?
[13:47:51] <quasi> nope
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[13:48:42] <quasi> it was only 3 files, so I could steal them off another box
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[13:52:19] <regx> are any of y ou guys actual sys admins?
[13:52:37] <trygvis> yep, but mainly a developer
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[13:53:00] <regx> im currious if Solaris can get me a good job if i know how to use it also
[13:53:19] * Berny is a sysad
[13:53:22] <trygvis> that entirely depend on your local marked, but I would guess so
[13:53:35] <regx> so it is still marketable
[13:53:36] <Berny> though i work in a hospital so moneywise it's not a good job...
[13:53:58] <Berny> 2006-11-15 13:52:12 Wed Nov 15 13:52:12 CET 2006(ERROR) => com.sun.patchpro.server.ServerPatchServiceProvider@1cb52ae <=Failed to validate the digital signature(s). for: /var/sadm/spool/patchsvr/Patches/120629-05.jar.tmp: The specific Jar file is not signed by a known digital certificate. 120629-05/.diPatch CN=Enterprise Services Patch Management, O=Sun Microsystems Inc
[13:54:01] <PerterB> certainly in the UK and bits of Europe the solaris admin market is pretty good right now
[13:54:07] <Berny> why the heck is it doing that?
[13:54:36] <regx> im probably gonna get my RHCT/RHCE then hopefully be really good at Solaris also.. id like to find a job in europe making good money
[13:55:08] <quasi> PerterB: I see a fair number of solaris admin jobs in .uk job postings lately
[13:55:19] <Berny> if you want to make good money think of becoming undertaker or something along those lines
[13:55:20] <regx> interesting
[13:55:21] <lasseoe> loads in the UK, pay is good too
[13:55:35] <quasi> lasseoe: but housing costs
[13:55:40] <lasseoe> yup
[13:55:54] <regx> what would yall suggest i study up on to help my chances of landing a good job?
[13:56:01] <Cyrille> finance.
[13:56:06] <regx> unix related
[13:56:08] <Cyrille> oh sorry you meant in IT?
[13:56:09] <Cyrille> ;-)
[13:56:14] <regx> heehee
[13:56:21] <quasi> regx: gynecology ;)
[13:56:30] <Berny> :>
[13:56:31] <regx> nah to many disgusting women
[13:56:54] <Berny> boy learn something decent
[13:57:01] <regx> ?
[13:57:02] <Berny> cooking, gardening
[13:57:04] <regx> lol
[13:57:13] <regx> "Unix sys admin and gardner"
[13:57:17] <dlg> i dont even like computers
[13:57:40] <Cyrille> that's pretty good, because I really don't think they like any of us either ;-)
[13:58:09] <PerterB> you don't need to like them, just be able to make them do what is needed ;)
[13:58:11] <regx> i dont think it could be any colder here in my office
[13:58:24] <Cyrille> is it 0K?
[13:58:27] <dlg> they do what i say, it just takes time to educate them
[13:58:33] <Cyrille> otherwise, yes it could be colder.
[13:58:40] <regx> lol
[13:59:40] <Berny> anyone any idea why my patchserver is choking?
[14:00:31] <lasseoe> Berny: stuck patch? tried the Heimlich ? ;-)
[14:00:45] <Berny> harhar :>
[14:00:58] <lasseoe> :-P
[14:01:07] <Berny> fails to validate the certificates for every new patch it downloads
[14:01:15] <lasseoe> I don't even bother with smpatch and the likes anymore
[14:01:48] <Berny> if it wouldn't be so timeconsuming to download them by hand i how avoid smpatch as well
[14:01:59] <lasseoe> Berny: tried PCA?
[14:02:28] <Berny> nope
[14:02:29] <lasseoe> http://www.par.univie.ac.at/solaris/pca/
[14:02:35] <lasseoe> it's so much better, simple and works
[14:02:41] <asyd> PCA++
[14:02:48] <asyd> we have a presentation of PCA if you want
[14:02:51] <asyd> http://guses.org/conferences/pca_en.swf
[14:03:09] <regx> so im trying to install OSOL on my Compaq Proliant 8500R but upon install start it says "No disks found" .. its a scsi chipset setup .. i THINK its a Profusion Chipset.. any one have any suggestions?
[14:04:16] <dlg> regx: solaris doesnt have great hardware support
[14:04:27] <regx> excellent
[14:04:40] <dlg> :D
[14:04:43] <regx> :*( i wanna install osol on a decent box sigh....
[14:04:46] <Berny> regx: sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/ is your friend ;-)
[14:04:56] <regx> ya i couldnt find anything related to it.
[14:05:25] <Berny> if it's not in there it probably won't work :-)
[14:05:30] <regx> sweet
[14:05:34] <rarruda> are 3com nics supportted on solaari sparc ?
[14:05:45] <rarruda> *solaris
[14:06:02] <regx> thennnn i try installing on another box..and it just hangs at "time out in 30 seconds ... <somthign about a network card interface> "
[14:07:23] <axisys> regx: there is a sun check tool in java .. if u run on an existing system .. be it windows or linux .. it will tell u if what is not compatible w/ solaris
[14:07:38] <regx> ah nice where do i get that
[14:09:08] <lasseoe> sun.com/download - I believe it's for X68/x64 only
[14:09:14] <regx> cool
[14:09:15] <regx> thanks
[14:09:16] <lasseoe> X86 even
[14:09:22] <regx> lol
[14:10:15] <axisys> lasseoe: oh ok
[14:12:21] <lasseoe> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/hcts/device_detect.html
[14:12:29] <regx> hott
[14:12:37] <Berny> let's open a case for the patchsvr issue :)
[14:13:12] <regx> is there a decent way to go about getting support for non working hardware? or is that a lost cause like most dev's?
[14:13:49] <quasi> lasseoe: it sort of works - but isn't quite right always - I'm pretty sure that my wifi card won't run on the same driver as the regular nic as the device detect says
[14:14:23] <lasseoe> quasi: ah ok - I've never used it, don't have any x86 based systems
[14:14:38] <lasseoe>  Solaris Enterprise System Virtual Machine 1.0
[14:14:38] <regx> lasseoe: SPARC stuff only?
[14:14:39] <lasseoe> interesting
[14:14:43] <lasseoe> regx: yes
[14:14:52] <regx> nice
[14:14:59] <Berny> bugger
[14:15:10] <dlg> regx: money to hire some hotshot dev
[14:15:26] <regx> ?
[14:15:43] <dlg> you asked how to get hardware support
[14:16:10] <regx> ahh ok
[14:16:31] <regx> i could just buy a supported box ;)
[14:16:54] <dlg> probably for the best
[14:16:55] <sickness> i'm back
[14:17:05] <lasseoe> certainly a lot cheaper
[14:18:04] <lasseoe> ah sunsolve works again
[14:18:47] <delewis> SunSolve was terribly slow yesterday
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[14:19:00] <delewis> which sort of sucks when you're wanting to grab patch clusters
[14:19:17] <Berny> still waiting to load the page where i can open a case :-\
[14:20:28] <regx> i hate when your freezing cold.. adn some one walks by.. and that stupid ass breeze hits you.. your like " ass! "
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[14:28:00] <Stric> who is making sunsolve go so slow?
[14:28:27] <PerterB> those pesky customers, I bet
[14:28:30] <Stric> :P
[14:28:41] * Stric is looking at specs for an e10k, we might get a 24cpu one :)
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[14:30:21] <quasi> Stric: e10k is way too far past its prime - barely worth the power (and certainly not worth the billions sun would charge for a service contract ;)
[14:30:45] <Stric> we're a nonprofit student organization who doesn't pay for electricity :)
[14:30:56] <Stric> and we have 400MHz e3500's and e4500s right now..
[14:30:59] <quasi> lucky bastards
[14:31:22] <Stric> might be good as a "file server" (http/ftp)
[14:32:05] <quasi> yeah, and good for scaring people
[14:32:18] <andersmo> Get two, one for replacement parts. Call one "the server", the other "the support contract".
[14:32:40] <Stric> they're donating it to us, so "get two" might be hard :)
[14:32:53] <quasi> you just have to get it to panic and run all fans at full speed - that usually scares most people ;)
[14:33:05] <sickness> lol
[14:33:27] <quasi> Stric: these days you can almost get an e10k for free if you're willing to haul it away
[14:33:53] <Stric> one trouble is that we're at the far northern end of europe
[14:34:22] <sickness> so put it outside and you won't need fans for cooling :P
[14:34:23] <sickness> ghgh
[14:34:28] <quasi> Stric: no, that's an advantage - cooling is cheaper ;)
[14:35:16] <Stric> like 500km north of anchorage:ish
[14:35:59] <quasi> Stric: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaEsFDjalvw
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[14:54:13] <tsoome> depends on config I guess
[14:54:38] 
[14:55:07] <regx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148136
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[15:13:55] <Snake007uk> 2*900mhz 4gb ram
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[15:20:09] <tsoome> quite nice
[15:20:12] <tsoome> HDD?
[15:21:13] <Snake007uk> 36gb fcal
[15:21:36] <tsoome> single one?
[15:21:38] <Snake007uk> 2* 36gb
[15:21:41] <tsoome> ah.
[15:21:49] <Snake007uk> i have a5200 with 11 * 72gb and 11 18gb
[15:21:51] <Snake007uk> fcal
[15:21:51] <Snake007uk> disk
[15:21:56] <tsoome> :)
[15:22:07] <Snake007uk> im thinking of selling 2 * ultra2
[15:22:12] <Snake007uk> keep one of my 3 :D
[15:22:21] <Snake007uk> all are 2 * 333 2gig memory
[15:22:22] <Snake007uk> :)
[15:22:34] <tsoome> 480 is definitely better than u2
[15:22:39] <Snake007uk> lol
[15:22:40] <Snake007uk> yeah
[15:22:56] 
[15:22:57] <tsoome> probably you can get extra 2x900 cpu as well
[15:23:10] <Snake007uk> but may be over kill for my usgae
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[15:26:47] <quasi> Snake007uk: doesn't sound too bad in price
[15:27:12] <Snake007uk> its not
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[15:27:19] <Snake007uk> just i have mortgage to pay now :(
[15:27:34] <Snake007uk> ill probably get about 380/100 for the U2's
[15:27:41] 
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[15:28:00] <Snake007uk> and if i sold the 11 * 18gb fcal disk...
[15:28:01] <Snake007uk> :D
[15:28:16] <Snake007uk> but i am sure it wont be staying at the price for long
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[15:38:33] <Berny> how do i remove a stary
[15:38:42] <Berny> how do i remove a stray pkg/patch lock?
[15:42:56] <tsoome> man rm? ;)
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[15:44:01] <Berny> if you would be so kind to tell me which file i would have to delete :>
[15:44:08] <PerterB> man truss ;)
[15:44:29] <Berny> hmpf
[15:44:38] <Berny> you really make my day 8-|
[15:45:35] <PerterB> well, I'd say we don't actually know and it's not in the pkgadd manpage, so we're helping you to help yourself
[15:47:50] <Berny> hmm, would truss also watch any processes running in a non-global zone?
[15:47:59] <Berny> i.e. children of patchadd
[15:48:21] <PerterB> good question, truss -f might
[15:49:28] <quasi> yes, works fine from the global zone
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[15:50:43] * nachox wonders what happened to genunix.org, is anyone updating the distributions chart?
[15:52:07] <quasi> nachox: obviously not - OpenSolaris  Build 38 ... that's been a while
[15:54:10] <Berny> ha! /tmp/.ai.pkg.zone.lock-afdb66cf-1dd1-11b2-a049-000d560ddc3e it was (though it didn't show up with truss)
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[16:02:09] <razrX> I'm running Solaris 10 6/06 on x86 and just ran a `smpatch update` and rebooted via /usr/sbin/shutdown -i 6. I created a zfs storage pool consisting of 2 files for experimentation. now that the box has rebooted the storage pool still exists but is no longer mounted.
[16:02:15] <razrX> is this behavior normal?
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[16:02:59] <razrX> the pool was mounted before patching though
[16:03:40] <dunc> how do i get at a zpool that i created from a previous install of the OS ?
[16:05:10] <Auralis> zpool import
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[16:22:31] <gdamore> good morning *
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[16:37:30] <Berny> HA got an answer on the patchsvr case.. that would be 40 minutes for sunsupport to give me a hint what's wrong...
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[16:44:37] <Berny> and it works again
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[16:55:36] <gdamore> OMG: 416837 usr/ucb/ls needs /bin/ls enhancements
[16:55:50] <gdamore> sorry that was 6416837
[16:56:01] <gdamore> but WTF are we enhancing tools in /usr/ucb?
[16:56:08] <axisys> is there a sunssh upgrade relative to openssh 4.4p1?
[16:57:15] <hile_> How long has that bug been out there ?
[16:57:29] <gdamore> its 64xxxxx, so its pretty recent.
[16:57:58] <hile_> oh, I read that as 416xxxxx
[16:58:18] <gdamore> it was submitted in april.
[16:58:52] <PerterB> axisys: doesn't look like it... http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102711-1
[16:59:21] <gdamore> what changes did openssh 4.4p1 introduce?
[16:59:36] <axisys> PerterB: hmm.. may be i should install the openssh and point the smf exec of ssh to that one
[16:59:46] <PerterB> gdamore: fixes for the vulnerabilities in the sun alert I just pasted
[16:59:52] <axisys> http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20060928.txt
[17:00:05] <axisys> PerterB: thnx
[17:01:01] <gdamore> these look like DoS attacks, and not riskier attacks that grant privilege or false authentication.
[17:01:29] <PerterB> "Depending on the individual application the first issue may allow a local or remote unprivileged user to execute arbitrary code with the privileges of the user running the application"
[17:01:53] <gdamore> now reading, it looks like there is more than one openssl vulnerability here.
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[17:03:09] <gdamore> hmm... but ssh doesn't use the OpenSSL SSL_xxx routines, i think.  only libcrypto, not libss., right?
[17:03:52] <gdamore> and openssh doesn't even use certs, IIUC.  so the ASN.1 DoS shouldn't apply either.
[17:04:22] <gdamore> in other words, i don't think _ssh_ is likely to be impacted, though other openssl clients (apache!) are.
[17:05:45] <PerterB> makes sense
[17:07:18] <gdamore> its been a really long time since I've seen anyone try a stack smashing/buffer overrun exploit on a SPARC system.  I guess all the script kiddies are too focused on Lintel right now.
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[17:09:08] <hile_> gdamore: set no_exec_userstack=1 tends to prevent those sorts of issues, I think?
[17:09:11] <PerterB> well, the vast majority of systems "exposed" to remote attacks are lintel/wintel so it makes sense for them to concentrate their efforts there (thankfully)
[17:10:04] <gdamore> hile_ only for stack smashing.  buffer overruns on heap can still be exploited but are harder to do much with.
[17:10:19] <nachox> no_exec_userstack only works if the host proc has support for the noexec bit?
[17:10:34] <gdamore> nachox: yes.  i think recent intel processors have this now too
[17:10:42] <nachox> they do
[17:11:07] <PerterB> amd64 only, I thought?
[17:11:12] <gdamore> i wonder if libpthread properly sets the noexec bit on thread stacks, which are, IIRC, allocated from the heap.
[17:11:51] <richlowe> Yes.
[17:11:56] <richlowe> FE21B000      12K rw--R    [ stack tid=239 ]
[17:12:19] <gdamore> richlowe: thanks.
[17:14:50] <gdamore> well, my /usr/bin/id changes are in now. :-)  so you can change your scripts to just use /usr/bin/id -u :-)
[17:15:05] <richlowe> except the hg snafu means none of us have them yet :)
[17:15:17] <gdamore> well, yeah, there is that.
[17:16:00] <PerterB> plus it would limit the scripts we change to only work on solaris versions with the new /usr/bin/id
[17:16:39] <PerterB> but in a few years time, once your changes have propogated widely, we can update our scripts :)
[17:16:46] <gdamore> yes, well, that is true.  but the scripts that are part of ON, can be changed. :-)
[17:17:21] <richlowe> do any of them actually use id? :)
[17:17:27] <richlowe> that seems very un least-priv of them.
[17:18:00] <gdamore> true.  i don't know if any do or not.
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[17:18:51] <gdamore> see /usr/bin/shutdown
[17:19:07] <quasi> init 5
[17:19:16] <richlowe> gdamore: ick.
[17:19:51] <gdamore> there is a bug for it to check _effective_ uid instead of real uid.  now that is easy with my id putback.
[17:20:43] <gdamore> i have seen other scripts which use this hack as well, mostly configuration script wrappers.  not sure how many of them are in ON though
[17:20:45] <richlowe> for the ever useful suid shutdown(1M)? :)
[17:20:47] <Berny> yuck a 150mb patch?
[17:21:01] <gdamore> richlowe: i guess. :-)
[17:21:25] <gdamore> you could have a suid shutdown, and give it group access, and then add users to that group....
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[17:21:41] <gdamore> probably less useful than using roles though.
[17:22:05] * gdamore admits he has never played much with least privilege, roleadm, etc.  because he always has either root or sudo.
[17:28:14] <Berny> .oO(the root of all evil?)
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[17:53:17] <myrkraverk> alanc: you there?
[17:53:26] <alanc> yes
[17:53:31] <myrkraverk> yay ;)
[17:54:00] <myrkraverk> alanc: is there a howto somewhere, if (?) I want to compile my own X?
[17:54:26] <alanc> from the Solaris sources or from the raw upstream sources?
[17:54:42] <alanc> the Solaris sources include a readme
[17:55:59] <myrkraverk> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/x/downloads/current/ <--- this one?
[17:56:00] <alanc> for upstream, there's some pages on building in http://wiki.x.org/
[17:56:05] <alanc> yes
[17:56:12] <myrkraverk> is that all I need?
[17:56:20] <myrkraverk> do I need upstream stuff to?
[17:57:11] <alanc> the download section of the readme explains how to make it download all the upstream bits it needs
[17:57:58] <myrkraverk> ah (only, my sol box does not have network yet)
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[17:58:53] <myrkraverk> alanc: I think I'll manage though, thanks ;)
[17:59:30] <myrkraverk> alanc: btw, does this include setxkbmap and friends?
[17:59:44] <alanc> no
[18:00:01] <alanc> if you want setxkbmap, download it from x.org and build it yourself
[18:00:08] <myrkraverk> ah, k
[18:00:22] <alanc> richlowe knows how to do that 8-)
[18:00:37] <myrkraverk> but what about XKB options in xorg.conf ?
[18:01:01] <myrkraverk> (I like to change my TAB into CRTL and stuff)
[18:01:37] <alanc> you can edit xorg.conf to change those - just won't include setxkbmap for doing it on the fly
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[18:02:27] <myrkraverk> ok ;)
[18:03:34] <myrkraverk> btw, what is the config file? I see no /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[18:06:41] <ada> hi all
[18:06:54] <myrkraverk> ah, cp'd /etc/X11/.xorg.conf to xorg.conf
[18:07:04] <myrkraverk> ada: hey ;)
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[18:55:56] <kothog> I was hoping to be able to speak with someone who knows about seg_map, seg_kpm and segmap_percent..?
[18:56:40] <kothog> question: segmap_percent still exists in Sol10; however, some suggest that it could induce a paging storm. can someone give me a hint as to why?
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[21:06:14] <Error_404> I don't, but my first haddrive was 20 megs & was about $1000
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[21:08:24] <kleppari> I don't, but I'm wondering if anyone in here has been into computing for that long :P
[21:08:55] <ShadowHntr> i remember when a 180K 5 1/4" drive cost $300
[21:09:04] <ShadowHntr> of course that was the days of the Commodore 64 :)
[21:10:18] <PerterB> and fine drives like the Fujitsu Eagle... 6U of 19" rackspace for about 470MB
[21:11:05] <sommerfeld> when eagles were current i was blissfully unaware of their pricetag
[21:11:20] <PerterB> likewise, but the first Unix box I ever used had one
[21:12:28] <sommerfeld> when I was working at MIT, the groups that got funny money from DEC used DEC drives (RA80, RA81, etc).   everyone else bought eagles.
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[21:18:12] <postwait> Has anyone tried: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/loficc/files/
[21:21:10] <Stric> http://www.acc.umu.se/images/archive/20000831-Stigen/index.html.sv?view=08-Disklyft.jpg <- Various harddisks we still have around.. the big one is ~500MB
[21:22:04] * quasi had no idea that .se was such a backwards country ;)
[21:22:17] <Stric> we have them, we don't use them.. :)
[21:22:38] <Stric> except for occations like the one on the pictures for new students to have fun with :)
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[21:43:28] <_william_> hi all
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[21:52:07] <rocks> I'm seeing these two entries in my ifconfig -a,one with RUNNING and the other without
[21:52:11] <rocks> ce0: flags=1000843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 2
[21:52:21] <rocks> ge0: flags=1000803<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 4
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[21:52:36] <rocks> why is ge0 not running ?
[21:53:20] <pikapika> yo
[21:54:36] <Stric>            Indicates that the required resources for an interface
[21:54:37] <Stric>            are allocated. For some interfaces this also indicates
[21:54:37] <Stric>            that the link is up.
[21:54:45] <Stric> rocks: so.. no link on ge0 ?
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[21:55:15] <rocks> hmm...there should be
[21:55:38] <rocks> Stric: is there any violation of having same subnet IP addresses on the same box different interfaces ?
[21:56:12] <PerterB> nope
[21:56:15] <rocks> like, I set 10.22.44.229 for ce0 and  10.22.44.82 for ge0
[21:56:28] <PerterB> in fact it's required for IPMP
[21:56:42] <rocks> hmmm
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[21:58:38] <rocks> is there a way to ping an IP address using a specify interface instead of going out by the default interface ?
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[21:58:50] <rocks> man ping didn't tell me
[21:58:54] <asyd> man ping
[21:59:03] <lasseoe> read the manpage again
[21:59:04] <rocks> ah,  -i
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[22:11:28] <myrkraverk> is it possible to try a driver without installing it?
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[22:23:15] <myrkraverk> that is, is it possible for me to try and load the em driver (an opensource alternative to e1000g) and dtrace it, without having to install it?
[22:23:43] <myrkraverk> (and preferably without having to change /etc/driver_aliases
[22:23:47] <myrkraverk> )
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[22:26:36] <kleppari> eek, too deep for me :P
[22:26:52] <kleppari> but aren't the e1000g drivers relatively new?
[22:26:59] <kleppari> they're the ones that replaced ipge, right?
[22:27:10] <sommerfeld> myrkraverk: in short: no.
[22:27:13] <myrkraverk> kleppari: aparently, not new enough for me
[22:27:23] <sommerfeld> kleppari: e1000g actually predates ipge
[22:28:06] <kleppari> what's the difference between the two, in short?
[22:28:48] <sommerfeld> kleppari: ipge started as a fork of the cassini driver (ce).  it's an evolutionary dead end.  e1000g uses the new network driver framework (nemo/gldv3)
[22:28:59] <kleppari> ah, ok
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[22:34:35] <myrkraverk> hmm, where is a plain old make? (not dmake)
[22:35:38] <twincest> /usr/ccs/bin
[22:35:49] <myrkraverk> ah - I see
[22:35:57] <myrkraverk> hmm, does that have a man page too?
[22:36:02] <twincest> make(1S)
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[22:37:21] <myrkraverk> ah (why is my man not picking that up?)
[22:37:30] <twincest> because /usr/ccs/man isn't in your manpath
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[22:38:55] <myrkraverk> I don't have /usr/ccs/man I do have /usr/man/man1s/make.1s though
[22:38:59] <dwc-> open("/usr/share/man/sman1s/make.1s", O_RDONLY) = 3
[22:39:04] <dwc-> that's what mine gets
[22:40:43] <myrkraverk> hmm
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[22:42:14] <myrkraverk> ah, I had a broken manpath ;)
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[22:48:41] <boyd> hmm... Does anyone know a way to change the disklabel type non-interactively (other than piping to format) ?
[22:49:26] <myrkraverk> does # comment lines in /etc/driver_aliases ?
[22:49:57] <boyd> At worst it would map them to the #foo driver, which would probably serve
[22:50:30] <boyd> Actually, at worst it would cause the file to be completely misparsed...
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[22:50:45] <myrkraverk> ok ;)
[22:53:07] <kleppari> copy it to .old, remove the line? :)
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[22:54:33] <regx> ahhh
[22:54:34] <regx> solaris
[22:58:29] <myrkraverk> hmm, now, after installing a driver, shouldn't it be draceable?
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[22:59:11] <boyd> If it's loaded I'd think it's functions should be available via fbt
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[22:59:49] <myrkraverk> damn, modload doesn't seem to manage to load it
[23:00:08] <myrkraverk> and devfsadm -i em complains loudly
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[23:10:22] <myrkraverk> do kernel modules (drivers) have to have any special code to support dtrace?
[23:12:05] <sommerfeld> no
[23:13:15] <kleppari> bah, what was the command called to list all connected usb devices?
[23:13:28] <delewis> cfgadm?
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[23:13:39] <kleppari> delewis, that's the one, thanks :)
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[23:16:19] <Tpenta> stevel: what the story with b52?
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[23:17:02] <richlowe> Tpenta: the response on -discuss was that it needed to be done after the hg fixing.
[23:17:35] <richlowe> as do a bunch of other things, which I'd assume is why stevel isn't so responsive :)
[23:18:42] * stevel nods
[23:18:55] * richlowe has something to add to that list, too.
[23:19:02] <stevel> sorry - this repository regeneration thing is taking longer than expected
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[23:21:58] <Axposf> hi all
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[23:28:45] <Error_404> stevel: jeez man, how long can it take?...
[23:28:57] <Error_404> ;)
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[23:29:23] <stevel> error_404: it's... complicated :-P
[23:29:26] <sommerfeld> when doing surgical procedures on scm repositories haste makes waste.
[23:29:34] <richlowe> it's not surgical.
[23:29:40] <richlowe> well, perhaps in the frankenstein sense.
[23:29:46] <richlowe> or "barber surgeon"
[23:29:59] <sommerfeld> dremel surgeon :-)
[23:30:01] <richlowe> or any number of other colorful metaphors for barbarism.
[23:30:02] <Error_404> I have no idea how long Hg takes
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[23:30:28] <Error_404> bzr takes hours on a 20meg repo
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[23:31:22] <sommerfeld> hg is pretty quick.
[23:31:30] <sommerfeld> but ON is huge
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[23:31:46] <twincest> error: i think he's building the hg repo from teamware, not just importing some source
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[23:32:39] <richlowe> ON is huge, ON through the last year and a half-ish, is more huge.
[23:32:54] <twincest> when did onnv branch?
[23:33:00] <Error_404> btw, are the -nd closed bins in the Hg repo?
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[23:33:24] <richlowe> twincest: further back in time than that, but the repo only covers from opening onward.
[23:33:27] <twincest> ah
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[23:33:39] <richlowe> somewhere around on10_70 I think.
[23:33:48] <richlowe> but since opengrok is pointed at hg now, I can't check so easily.
[23:34:05] <stevel> error_404: nope
[23:34:10] <Error_404> drats
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[23:34:54] <stevel> my thought was that if i put them in, then i'd have to put in both sparc & x86, and they'd be versioned - so the repository would grow really really really large
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[23:35:20] <Error_404> so, wait for Tpenta?
[23:35:27] <richlowe> stevel: it does.
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[23:35:49] <sommerfeld> stevel: yeah, absent a really good delta compression algorithm specialized for object code..
[23:35:54] <richlowe> between 2006/04/24 and now, every drop, no -nd bins, it's at 168M
[23:39:28] <stevel> yeah - it'd definitely be nice to be able to just 'hg clone' and be up and running...
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[23:41:39] <richlowe> stevel: I tell you, have nightly's bringover step get/refresh them as necessary. :)
[23:41:52] <stevel> that'd be neat to add
[23:42:15] <stevel> i'll add it to my long list of stuff to do
[23:42:16] <stevel> :-P
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[23:43:49] <Gman> hey dudes: )
[23:44:57] <stevel> hey glynn
[23:45:28] <myrkraverk> sommerfeld: actually, I am putting together a simple delta compression code (or, was, last time I had time to code) - it *might* be a foundation for "something really good for binaries" :P
[23:50:51] <Tpenta> folks, generally I have the bins ready when steve puts the other stuff up
[23:50:57] <Tpenta> nowthat I know when he makes them
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[23:51:35] <postwait> How does one go about backing up a ZFS pool?
[23:51:50] <postwait> I have a whole bunch of zones in a pool
[23:52:07] <postwait> And because they use "zone magic" a lot of the files are actually shared on disk
[23:52:10] <Tpenta> tar, cpio or zfs send/get
[23:52:15] <postwait> (copy on write ZFS magic)
[23:52:23] <postwait> So tar will make it _HUGE_
[23:52:41] <postwait> zfs send doesn't work on pools only individual FSs (as far as I can tell)
[23:52:52] <postwait> is there a way to use zfs send to backup the whole pool?
[23:53:09] <Tpenta> its somewhere that obviously needs work. doing the pool would make a lot of sense in manyinstances
[23:53:27] <postwait> The ZFS send stuff makes the most sense to me.
[23:53:34] <postwait> But I tried that and my backups are huge.
[23:53:47] <postwait> And worse? I can't restore
[23:53:56] <postwait> As I do'nt have sufficient disk space.
[23:54:03] <twincest> would zfs send -i work there?
[23:54:21] <postwait> Restoring it defeats the zobject sharing that happens during a zone install
[23:57:28] <Error_404> Tpenta: i agree
[23:57:37] <Error_404> is there a RFE filed to allow pool migration?
[23:58:18] <Error_404> currently i've got a whole lot of stuff on a tiny (160 gig) single vdev zpool
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[23:58:40] <Error_404> when i decide to move it over to a raidz (when i can afford more drives), migrating will be a pain
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