[00:00:03] <clee> of course it does
[00:00:04] <clee> unless it doesn't.
[00:00:28] <richlowe> I can think of two moderately hard to hit bugs.
[00:00:31] <trede> well , fair enough. thanks for the quick answer
[00:00:39] <richlowe> but if you're having to ask, you didn't him them. :)
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[00:01:10] <Stric> moazamraja: lsof is one way
[00:01:34] <Stric> gnu2it2: you think you need 4gb of swap?
[00:02:15] <Error_404> trede: dtrace works in solaris10 on
[00:02:52] <quasi> and quite well at that
[00:04:55] <Error_404> you'd think there'd be hooks in to sun's own J2EE server to use it, but apparantly not the case
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[00:05:46] <quasi> not in the latest and greatest?
[00:06:59] <Error_404> i haven't seen any dtrace probes for glassfish
[00:07:06] <Error_404> even the latest build
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[00:11:06] <elektronkind> hmm. I just noticed this. non-root users can't run dtrace scripts it seems
[00:11:39] <elektronkind> is there something in RBAC I need to set to allow a user to run D scripts against their own procs?
[00:11:40] <jamesd> of course.. its far too dangerous to give normal users access to  dtrace
[00:11:54] <jamesd> yes..
[00:12:13] <elektronkind> ah, and there's no finer-grained permissions for dtrace other than "you're allowed to run D scripts" ?
[00:12:15] <jamesd> see the dtrace guide there are a few privs, not sure what it is.
[00:12:16] <gisburn> jamesd: since when is dtrace dangerous ?
[00:12:21] <elektronkind> cool
[00:12:49] <jamesd> gisburn, since it can dump every file read and write including keyboard, and socket io
[00:13:03] <moazamraja> jamesd: you seen this before when running DTrace scripts?
[00:13:05] <moazamraja> jamesd: failed to compile script /dev/fd/10: "/usr/include/sys/kstat.h", line 439: invalid type combination
[00:13:14] <moazamraja> always the same, on a bunch of different dtrace scripts
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[00:13:26] <jamesd> it can read keyboard input straight out to kernel
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[00:14:13] <jamesd> i have seen a dtrace script that can  dump the output of a ssh  transport
[00:15:00] <elektronkind> I guess I assumed that using dtrace would be like using truss... it just won't access info you don't own.
[00:15:24] <moazamraja> jamesd: this error is while using socketsnoop.d
[00:15:47] <richlowe> elektronkind: that's not exactly easy to figure out...
[00:16:08] <jamesd> socketsnoop used a non public interface that has probably has chnaged
[00:16:17] <gisburn> jamesd: Yes, I know... but I was more thinking of "dangerous == crash system"
[00:16:18] <moazamraja> *sigh*
[00:16:19] <moazamraja> damn
[00:16:47] <richlowe> if he's getting an error from the kstat include, he's probably just being bitten by either cpp, or random chance.
[00:17:19] <jamesd> gisburn, yes crashing the system with dtrace is damm near impossible i have only seen one or two bugs in dtrace that can do it,  and that is over the last 2+ years
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[00:18:39] <Error_404> the version of postgres that ships w/ opensolaris seems to be compiled w/out dtrace
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[00:25:50] <sommerfeld> uh, wha?
[00:26:28] <sommerfeld> do you mean it has no symbols?
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[00:27:10] <jamesd> there is a version of postgres that will have a tracing framework included that works with dtrace  to probe it
[00:30:06] <Error_404> but it doesn't ship w/ SX:CR
[00:30:41] <jamesd> the guy that sun hired from the postgres project is working on it.
[00:31:27] <Gman> josh berkus? ;)
[00:31:37] <jamesd> i guess
[00:31:51] * Gman likes to put names on people rather than 'the guy'
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[00:32:07] <jamesd> can't remember names...
[00:32:42] <elektronkind> here's to you, sun prostgres programmer man!
[00:33:43] <alanc> berkus logs in here sometimes
[00:45:23] <Gman> hrm
[00:45:29] <Gman> don't like plocher's proposal
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[00:48:54] <Gman> mmm, i get the feeling the community newsletter would be a lot harder without my weekly news summaries ;)
[00:49:10] <alanc> heh
[00:49:11] <richlowe> Gman: which proposal?
[00:49:34] <Gman> richlowe, his mailing list one on website-discuss
[00:49:40] <richlowe> 6489461?
[00:49:53] <richlowe> oh, sheesh.
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[01:04:42] <richlowe> the whole setup of names for people bugs me.
[01:05:06] <richlowe> and I sure don't like having to go through the webapp to subscribe. :)
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[01:09:01] <Gman> richlowe, yeah, it's ass.
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[01:17:01] <alanc> I guess I should actually subscribe to that...
[01:17:59] <richlowe> by the time you get done, you'll be subscribed to opensolaris-* {website,tools}-*
[01:19:11] <richlowe> and by the time plocher gets done, subscribing to them will take about 6 hours, while standing on one leg holding a chicken ;)
[01:19:21] <Gman> heh
[01:19:48] <stevel> mmmmmmmmmm... chicken
[01:19:54] <alanc> is this my fault, for pointing out in his ARC e-mail thread that outside Sun people's e-mail addresses don't reflect their names?
[01:20:40] <Gman> someone needs to do the opensolaris dance
[01:20:49] <Gman> the 'here's how it really works' dance
[01:22:24] <stevel> well, in any case - i can tell you that for the amount of work involved there, we won't be doing any of that any time soon
[01:22:40] <Gman> heh
[01:23:34] * Gman hopes sun gets behind the opensolaris community conf next year, and sends a truckload of people over to it
[01:23:56] <richlowe> alanc: I was wondering if conversation there would restart.
[01:24:25] <richlowe> ... with a total fixed spec, for preference.
[01:25:05] <alanc> oh, I see, he's just furthering his goals of making mailing lists == membership in stuff
[01:25:18] <richlowe> Yeah, I can deal with that, I think.
[01:25:25] <richlowe> however, locking the lists to 'normal' subscription is just foolish.
[01:25:33] <richlowe> hence the chicken comment, above.
[01:25:34] <Gman> it is silly
[01:26:00] * richlowe is currently not a member, observer, or whatever, of anything.
[01:26:09] <richlowe> I don't particularly see a reason to change, that, either. :)
[01:26:26] <stevel> sch is in here saying that's going to change :)
[01:26:35] <stevel> i'll forcibly make you an observer or leader of something ;-)
[01:26:45] <richlowe> stevel: them's fightin words.
[01:27:03] <alanc> I thought we'd already volunteered you to become an ARC member once we figure out non-Sun membership?
[01:27:23] <Gman> why doesn't sch irc
[01:27:29] <Gman> we can provide ties :)
[01:28:41] <stevel> he just laughed and walked out :)
[01:28:56] <richlowe> ... nice.
[01:29:02] <Gman> fucker
[01:29:11] * Gman will have to give him some gip about that sometime
[01:29:37] <richlowe> sch does irc, sometimes, though.
[01:29:40] <richlowe> he just never says anything.
[01:30:00] <richlowe> I think he just does it to try and catch stevel slacking :)
[01:30:10] <stevel> nah, he can come by my office for that
[01:30:17] <Gman> heh
[01:30:30] * Gman needs to do a placement in mpk for a month
[01:30:43] <Gman> we're also talking about putting xchat into jds
[01:30:45] * Gman thinks that might help
[01:31:05] <richlowe> Is it just a pain in the ass dealing with your proxies, or?
[01:31:10] * Gman would be sure to add server links to #opensolaris/#solaris :)
[01:31:22] <Gman> richlowe, no, it's just people not getting it
[01:31:30] <Gman> gaim isn't very good at irc
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[01:31:53] <Gman> haha
[01:31:56] <Gman> hey sch ;)
[01:32:03] <sch0> Hey all.
[01:32:05] <richlowe> g'afternoon sch.
[01:32:36] <stevel> gman: come on. be nice. give the man his virtual tie like you promised.
[01:32:41] <sch0> Hi rich.
[01:33:27] <sommerfeld> virtual tie?  how about renaming <sch0> to <sch0===> ? :-)
[01:33:38] <Gman> richlowe, i'd make sure to seed the server list to include freenode and an autojoin to #opensolaris
[01:33:38] <Gman> stevel, hawhaw
[01:34:06] * Gman hands sch a paisley corduroy one
[01:34:22] * sch0 admires virtual neckwear.
[01:34:40] <stevel> they make corduroy ties?
[01:34:45] * Gman happy opensolaris is now longer a virtual organization :)
[01:36:18] <Gman> sch0, were my comments to the governance draft ignored? or discussed and ignored?
[01:36:42] * Gman has no problem with the latter, would be a bit miffed since simon prodded me to give feedback in another thread
[01:36:49] <sch0> Discussed, but not adopted.
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[01:37:05] <Gman> ok
[01:37:12] <Gman> was preciously quiet on list
[01:37:38] <sch0> There are two schools of thought, roughly:  that this version was good or that this version was not bad, and could be amended later.
[01:38:19] <richlowe> Gman: autojoin would be a bad idea.
[01:38:20] * Gman thought it was good in general
[01:38:36] <Gman> richlowe, yeah, i wasn't overly serious
[01:38:59] <sch0> I think we need to ratify, have an election, and feel successfully democratic.
[01:39:13] <sch0> (And then resume merciless self-criticism...)
[01:39:19] <Gman> heh
[01:39:31] <Gman> the proxy voting stuff sucked
[01:40:25] <sch0> I'm hoping that the poor scrutineers handling elections don't have to deal with too much proxying.
[01:40:31] <sch0> But it is a complicated addition.
[01:40:48] <Gman> who will handle the elections out of curiosity?
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[01:40:59] <Error_404> diebold
[01:41:12] <sch0> Error_404:  nice.
[01:41:15] <Error_404> the republicans'll win the opensolaris governance board somehow
[01:41:53] <Gman> gisburn, new version of blog.sun.com was rolled out today - might be worth re-checking your script
[01:41:54] <sch0> Right now I am reviewing Apache's SSH-based method.  My hope was that we could run it in a verifiable way.
[01:42:22] <richlowe> stevel: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/search?q=&defs=&refs=&path=seg_vn.c&hist=
[01:42:25] <richlowe> stevel: you broke it.
[01:42:36] <richlowe> stevel: (I'm reading seg_vn.c right now, it's in $UTSBASE/common/vm)
[01:42:53] <sch0> We = opensolaris.org site.  We discussed hosting it at genunix (which would be fine), but it looks like more folks/time are available at the main site...
[01:43:13] <sch0> ssh-based *voting* method
[01:43:23] <richlowe> stevel: in fact, it currently doesn't seem to be finding anything.
[01:43:47] <stevel> richlowe: that's because i just nuked the data dir
[01:43:52] <Gman> in gnome we just have a script and an email interface
[01:43:55] <richlowe> stevel: gee, thanks. :)
[01:44:00] <stevel> richlowe: just for you ;-)
[01:44:00] <Gman> it's pretty simple
[01:44:25] <stevel> richlowe: the version of ctags i was using (SFWctags) seems to bork badly if TMPDIR isn't set.  i have to re-index with a new version of ctags...
[01:45:18] <sch0> Gman:  Feel free to send me a pointer; I'm happy to look at other takes.
[01:45:45] <richlowe> stevel: I figured you'd have a good reason for having done it.
[01:45:49] <Gman> sch0, will do - it's uberly simple assuming a 'trusted' community
[01:46:10] * Gman hunts out link
[01:46:23] * richlowe is waiting on xref -x cscope
[01:46:29] <richlowe> opengrok has me spoiled :)
[01:47:37] <stevel> SFWctags doesn't like zvol.c
[01:47:41] <stevel> weird
[01:47:57] <richlowe> does it say why?
[01:48:13] <stevel> claims it fails to create a temporary file
[01:48:26] <stevel> if i force TMPDIR to be set to /tmp, then it works
[01:48:46] <richlowe> stevel: does where it was set prior to that have a pre-existing copy perhaps?
[01:49:06] <stevel> without TMPDIR set, and trussing it shows it tries to create something in /tmp/nightly... something or other
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[01:50:52] <sch0> who creates /tmp/nightly-something-something-something?
[01:51:05] <stevel> the nightly CCD build, i imagine
[01:51:08] <stevel> http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2003-05/msg01074.html
[01:51:12] <stevel> it's similar to the bug reported here
[01:51:25] <sahafeez> the ksh93 fan base here ?
[01:51:26] <stevel> it's strange that it works on most files, but not all though
[01:52:37] <gisburn> sahafeez: what ?
[01:52:46] <gisburn> sahafeez: how can I help you ?
[01:52:51] * gisburn reads up...
[01:53:04] <sahafeez> gisburn: .kshrc in your home dir should reread on login right ...?
[01:53:15] <gisburn> no.
[01:53:32] <gisburn> sahafeez: .kshrc is read for each invocation of an interactive shell.
[01:53:43] <gisburn> (which includes login)
[01:54:03] <gisburn> and $ ksh93 # when started from bash in xterm/dtterm/konsole
[01:55:05] <gisburn> sahafeez: do you unterstand the difference between login shell and interactive shell ?
[01:55:32] <sahafeez> hum. i thought i did but now that you ask.
[01:55:44] <sahafeez> login is what i get when i login
[01:56:03] <gisburn> interactive shells are all shells which present you a prompt
[01:56:16] <gisburn> a login shell is the base of your account login session
[01:56:27] <sahafeez> ok, cool
[01:56:47] <sch0> (I thought the answer might be '-'.)
[01:56:50] <gisburn> a login shell is usually an interactive shell, too.
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[01:57:09] <sahafeez> ok. i was just trying to figure out why something i set in .kshrc was not getting read on longin
[01:57:11] <sahafeez> login
[01:57:45] <gisburn> which shell do you use ?
[01:57:52] <gisburn>  Solaris /usr/bin/ksh ?
[01:58:21] <richlowe> sch0: nightly sets TMPDIR that way during a build.
[01:58:32] <sahafeez> me, bash - not even on a solaris box - openbsd - it is the shell for root. i read the man page but when it did not work i wanted to ask the expert
[01:59:01] <delewis> I generally use *loginShell: true in my .Xdefaults
[01:59:16] <richlowe> sahafeez: on OpenBSD, ksh is pdksh.
[01:59:17] <delewis> which ensures my .profile is read upon XDM login
[01:59:21] <richlowe> sahafeez: which will make gisburn *real* happy...
[01:59:27] <delewis> hah
[02:00:04] <sahafeez> well, this is an ssh login and all i did was create /root/.kshrc and add an export "sdflakjhfhakjsjhk" line.
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[02:00:24] <sahafeez> i am thinking maybe i have to BLA=BLA; export BLA
[02:00:31] <gisburn> delewis: *loginShell: is very expensive. basically you waste CPU time and 1-2MB for the login thing.
[02:00:44] <Gman> sch0, hrm, gnome's one is a little sucky - looks like it does a mass mail of a vote token, you enter that token on a web form, choose your candidates, and then it submits and gives you an anonymous token allowing you to check the validity of your vote later on
[02:00:57] <delewis> gisburn: do you have a better solution for ensuring .profile is read upon XDM login?
[02:00:58] <sch0> richlowe: Yep, I was just surprised that the OpenGrok indexing would have such a setting (or that we would use nightly just to make a tags build for same)...
[02:00:59] <Gman> sch0, sucky, in that it uses php ;)
[02:01:03] <delewis> with CDE it's fairly simple
[02:01:06] <gisburn> sahafeez: is this pdksh ? Or solaris /usr/bin/ksh or ksh93 ?
[02:01:07] <delewis> you just edit the .dtprofile
[02:01:16] <richlowe> sch0: My guess was that ctags is sucking in the currently TMPDIR when it's built.
[02:01:16] <sahafeez> openbsd pdksh
[02:01:29] <richlowe> 'current', not 'currently'
[02:01:30] <Gman> sch0, http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/foundation-web/foundation.gnome.org/vote/ is the location of most of the bits
[02:01:31] <delewis> most window managers just use an interactive shell, though, which is forked from the XDM shell.
[02:01:46] <delewis> which also means you get whatever environment variables XDM had, and not your's.
[02:01:55] <sch0> Gman:  got it, thanks.
[02:02:24] <gisburn> delewis: for ksh93 then add a "source ~/.profile" in ~/.kshrc, however this is a horrible hack.
[02:02:38] <gisburn> delewis: maybe ask in shell-discuss at opensolaris dot org for a real solution.
[02:03:22] <delewis> hmm, brb.
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[02:03:48] <sch0> Gotta run to daycare; later.
[02:03:55] *** sch0 has quit IRC
[02:07:03] <gisburn> Ahhggllrrr....
[02:07:05] <gisburn> $ cat ast_ksh_20060912_to_20061031.diff | wc -l
[02:07:06] <gisburn> 23986
[02:07:12] <gisburn> *tilt*
[02:08:09] <gisburn> Good news is: Next ksh93 update is now in work.
[02:08:25] <gisburn> Bad news: I am not paid for this pain.
[02:08:29] <gisburn> ;-(
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[02:09:13] <delewis> JDS is apparently intelligent enough to source the user's profile, too.
[02:09:21] <delewis> that *definitely* isn't always the case with other window managers.
[02:09:44] <delewis> with CDE, one had to edit .dtprofile and set DTSOURCEPROFILE to TRUE
[02:10:05] <sahafeez> gisburn: so is .kshrc read on login via ssh normally?
[02:10:32] <delewis> sahafeez: .kshrc should be read at every ksh invocation.
[02:10:39] <delewis> login shell or interactive shell.
[02:10:40] <sahafeez> ok.
[02:10:57] * delewis still wonders why set -o no longer works in his .profile
[02:11:02] <delewis> I had to throw it in my .kshrc
[02:11:05] <gisburn> sahafeez: in therory yes. at least for ksh93
[02:11:15] <Gman> gisburn, yes, but you enjoy it! :)
[02:11:21] * Gman cheers gisburn on
[02:11:33] <gisburn> *grumble*
[02:11:37] <sahafeez> and the lines STUFF="ajshdjhsahfjk"; export $STUFF should work
[02:12:04] <gisburn> Gman: I would be more happy if I had a faster machine. waiting 22h to get another compiler error is NOT funny.
[02:12:11] <Gman> stevel, src? src!? oh man. code was so much nicer!
[02:12:28] <Gman> even 'source' would have been better :)
[02:12:31] <Error_404> I want an x4100
[02:12:35] <stevel> i voted for source
[02:12:36] <gisburn> sahafeez: it's export STUFF
[02:12:40] <sahafeez> yah,
[02:12:41] <Error_404> x2xxx don't have enough harddrive slots for me
[02:12:44] <sahafeez> typo
[02:12:45] <gisburn> sahafeez: NOT  export $STUFF
[02:12:47] <Gman> stevel, who on earth suggested 'src'?
[02:13:08] <stevel> not sure, but that's what was given - i wasn't tabulating the votes, so i dunno
[02:13:10] <gisburn> Gman: satan
[02:13:15] <Gman> stevel, nod
[02:13:23] <stevel> i think the reason we didn't go for code is that not everything is necessarily code
[02:13:24] <richlowe> the initial suggestion(s) were all code.
[02:13:30] <stevel> since people could have repositories of non-code
[02:13:32] <richlowe> stevel: it's not necessarily source either.
[02:13:35] <richlowe> but whatever.
[02:13:37] <stevel> arguably, the g11n stuff isn't necessarily code
[02:13:40] * stevel shrugs
[02:13:46] <stevel> anything's better than cvs
[02:13:47] <stevel> :-P
[02:13:49] <gisburn> stevel: why are my bookmarks to cvs.opensolaris.org broken ?
[02:13:50] <Gman> yeah
[02:14:02] <stevel> gisburn: which bookmark?
[02:14:05] <Gman> except src makes the baby jesus cry.
[02:14:13] <richlowe> gisburn: they shouldn't be.
[02:14:21] <alanc> should have been sccs.opensolaris.org for historical reasons
[02:14:25] <richlowe> I have several tabs to it still open, and at least one refreshed just fine.
[02:14:28] <stevel> gman; but cvs clubs baby seals ;-)
[02:14:28] <gisburn> oh
[02:14:33] <richlowe> alanc: nse.opensolaris.org?
[02:14:39] <richlowe> avocet? (iirc)
[02:14:43] <alanc> before my time
[02:14:46] <Gman> stevel, haha, gotcha
[02:14:49] <gisburn> stevel: ignore me, seems there is a redirect now.
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[02:14:59] <richlowe> alanc: ws(1) mentions them.
[02:15:06] <gisburn> stevel: please use source.opensolaris.org, not "src"
[02:15:12] * richlowe is generally of the opinion that ws(1) has outlived it's time by a good 5 or 6 years.
[02:15:21] <richlowe> there's still special casing in there for cross-compiling 5.0 from 4 :)
[02:15:35] <alanc> I've never seen that man page before
[02:16:05] <stevel> gisburn: too late
[02:16:23] <richlowe> alanc: well, it's in onbld, so you wouldn't have.
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[02:16:51] <alanc> ah
[02:17:14] <alanc> though I actually did just find it since onbld/man is in my path for when I can't remember the args to check_rtime
[02:17:15] <richlowe> when the hg tools stuff happens, I'm going to suggest killing it off in favour of bldenv, too. :)
[02:17:19] <jlc> alanc, you work on X right?
[02:17:26] <alanc> yes
[02:17:34] <jlc> is xorgconfig gone?
[02:17:37] <alanc> no
[02:17:40] <alanc> sadly
[02:17:41] <sommerfeld> richlowe: there's one problem with that: bldenv requires an env file
[02:17:48] <gisburn> stevel: can we throw some managers into a deep empty pit (komodo dragons will be delivered later today) and restart opensolaris.org, please ? Maybe withour Jive, TML and propper host names, please ?
[02:17:49] <jlc> doh, i'm looking in the wrong place
[02:17:49] <sommerfeld> ws does not
[02:17:50] <richlowe> sommerfeld: Yes, I know.
[02:17:57] <alanc> still there in /usr/X11/bin on x86 machines
[02:18:09] <stevel> gisburn: managers had nothing to do with it :)
[02:18:09] <jlc> X11R6/bin just found it
[02:18:10] <richlowe> sommerfeld: and making ws work with hg is largely possible, beyond having to choose somewhere else to stick the protodefs.
[02:18:11] <jlc> is that a link
[02:18:17] * Gman takes tie back from sch0
[02:18:19] <jlc> I forgot it goes to /usr/X11
[02:18:21] <richlowe> sommerfeld: making it work for those of us outside though, would involve turning it into bldenv.
[02:18:22] <gisburn> stevel: who's responsible ?
[02:18:29] <richlowe> (or otherwise giving it a way to find the compilers)
[02:18:31] <stevel> gisburn: blame me
[02:18:32] * gisburn prepares the sword for an upcoming beheading
[02:18:38] <gisburn> ok
[02:18:41] <jlc> alanc, if you get rid of it, like um fedora did what do you use instead?
[02:18:52] <alanc> yes, /usr/X11R6 should be a link to /usr/X11 to make life easier for linux people with that in their paths
[02:19:02] <jlc> ah
[02:19:18] <richlowe> sommerfeld: out of interest, why would you not have an env file?  I'm assuming everyone does a nightly run at some point...
[02:19:21] <gisburn> stevel: do you throw yourself into the pit ? Suicide is much easier than cop-assistet suicide...
[02:19:28] <alanc> vi /etc/X11/xorg.conf or xorgcfg, which is why it's not going away
[02:19:42] <jlc> I didn't have an xorg.conf
[02:20:02] <jlc> Thats why I need to make one :)
[02:20:04] <alanc> though the long-term plan for Sun, fedora & X.org is to as much as possible run with no xorg.conf and just use reasonable defaults
[02:20:05] <jlc> well, adding nvidia
[02:20:33] <alanc> for the nvidia drivers, use /usr/bin/nvidia-xconfig instead
[02:20:35] * Gman smacks gisburn over the head - leave poor stevel alone
[02:20:46] <gisburn> alanc: will Xorg add a interface to scan the minds of Xorg users ?
[02:20:47] <jlc> the thing I don't get about that, is what if users want to add stuff to it
[02:20:52] <jlc> your saying there will be something?
[02:20:58] * gisburn smacks Gman back with a troud
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[02:21:00] <sommerfeld> richlowe: so, the way I do builds, I have a wrapper for "nightly" generate the env file right before I start the build, which is usually long after I used "ws" to go into the workspace and edit stuff
[02:21:02] <alanc> gisburn: nope, scanning their hardware is enough in most cases
[02:21:10] <richlowe> sommerfeld: ah.
[02:21:22] <richlowe> sommerfeld: I have a set of env files that guess where everything is based on where they are.
[02:21:35] <gisburn> alanc: what about quad-head where three heads should be Xinerama and the 4th another Xorg server ?
[02:21:39] <richlowe> sommerfeld: CODEMGR_WS=$(basename $(basename $1)), pretty much.
[02:21:44] <alanc> you'll still be able to add stuff to xorg.conf, but the goal is to make it so most configurations don't need one
[02:21:49] <richlowe> uh, dirname, even ;)
[02:21:53] <sahafeez> ugh, ksh sucks. back to bash
[02:21:54] <sahafeez> ;)
[02:22:05] <alanc> gisburn: then you're the one in a million wierdo who needs manual configuration and you'll have to suck up and do it
[02:22:09] <gisburn> sahafeez: which ksh do you use ?
[02:22:10] <jlc> fedora did good on 3 of my box's
[02:22:15] <sahafeez> pdksh
[02:22:22] <gisburn> sahafeez: my god.
[02:22:29] <jlc> nevada does good too, just doesn't actually leave me something to add too
[02:22:33] <gisburn> sahafeez: pdksh is dead and unmaintained since years.
[02:22:40] * gisburn smacks sahafeez
[02:22:45] <alanc> we'll never get rid of xorg.conf completely, because we can't anticipate everything, but the most common cases should need nothing
[02:22:48] <jlc> nvidi-xconfig, does it actually give good values?
[02:22:48] <dwc-> so's ksh in solaris!
[02:22:53] <sahafeez> gisburn: it is an OpenBSD box...
[02:22:58] <alanc> nvidia-xconfig does
[02:22:59] <gisburn> yeah
[02:23:09] <jlc> i'm looking up my monitor now, cause it seems off
[02:23:17] <gisburn> sahafeez: and ast-ksh supprorts OpenBSD
[02:23:26] <sahafeez> the root shell
[02:23:30] <gisburn> sahafeez: fetch source, build it.
[02:23:35] <richlowe> sommerfeld: though that does get the bringover bits wrong, but I can't use those anyway :)
[02:23:46] <sahafeez> gisburn: version @(#)PD KSH v5.2.14 99/07/13.2 of the public
[02:23:47] <sahafeez>      domain Korn shell.
[02:23:50] <alanc> gisburn: it's like asking why you're bothering adding all these things to default ksh profiles when some users may need other settings - aren't you trying to make the most common cases auto-configured?
[02:24:07] <jlc> nvidia-xconfig didn't do so good on my monitor
[02:24:18] <sahafeez> naw, i am just installing bash-3.1.1
[02:24:48] <gisburn> alanc: umpf... yes (note that I was just trying to make some fun out of the xorg.conf autoconfiguration stuff)
[02:24:52] * delewis watches gisburn's head explode
[02:25:18] <gisburn> *plock*
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[02:26:03] <gisburn> delewis: funny.
[02:26:06] <sahafeez> better  - -bash-3.1$
[02:26:25] <delewis> $ echo ${.sh.version}
[02:26:25] <delewis> Version M 1993-12-28 s-
[02:26:26] <delewis> :-P
[02:26:36] * gisburn purrs
[02:26:53] <sahafeez> what no new code in 13 years?
[02:27:06] <delewis> $ echo ${.sh.version}
[02:27:07] <delewis> Version M-12/28/93e
[02:27:14] <delewis> that's the ksh93 that ships in AIX 5.3 :-(
[02:27:16] <gisburn> sahafeez: 93 is the date of the spec, e.g. ksh93 is korn shell based on spec 1993
[02:27:25] <gisburn> delewis: file bug.
[02:27:36] <gisburn> delewis: ksh93e is... uhm... so... pre-2000
[02:27:36] <delewis> gisburn: you've obviously never worked with IBM.
[02:27:42] <sahafeez> i know that. it was a joke ;)
[02:27:45] <delewis> filing a bug is equivalent to "contacting your sales rep"
[02:27:54] <gisburn> heh
[02:28:06] <delewis> since my AIX license is well non-existent and this hardware is not under a service contract, I doubt IBM would care. :-)
[02:28:19] <sahafeez> gisburn: i did a nice mv .kshrc .bashrc and log off and on and it worked ;)
[02:28:35] <gisburn> sahafeez: you... you... pdksh user!
[02:28:41] <gisburn> horrible
[02:28:50] <delewis> I'd use bash over pdksh, and I hate bash. :-)
[02:29:02] <sahafeez> well it did not fucking work right on .ksh and i do not have time to figure it out.
[02:29:07] <gisburn> pdksh is horrible.
[02:29:55] <stevel> richlowe: opengrok is done indexing now
[02:29:58] * delewis wants his Photon to arrive
[02:30:05] <delewis> 22x18GB FC drives is going to rock. :-)
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[02:30:22] <elektronkind> ...rock your electric bill :)
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[02:30:35] <delewis> elektronkind: maybe an increase by $5/month.
[02:30:58] <delewis> this is TN -- we have the TVA and lots of rivers to ship coal.
[02:31:07] <richlowe> stevel: woohoo
[02:31:41] <stevel> i think things are working properly now
[02:31:44] <richlowe> delewis: sadly, that's not so much a TN thing as a "where you are" thing.
[02:31:55] <richlowe> the utility company around these parts sucks ass.
[02:31:57] <delewis> I'm more worried about what the E4500 is going to do the room temperature.
[02:32:12] <delewis> and the A5200
[02:32:41] <richlowe> stevel: well, it knows pr_getprot exists now.
[02:32:44] <richlowe> stevel: that's progress at least.
[02:33:06] <richlowe> stevel: pity it gives me it in the gate, and both projects though...
[02:33:37] <stevel> richlowe: search by project
[02:34:08] <richlowe> stevel: Yeah, but no.
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[02:35:43] <richlowe> stevel: that only works for the first search.
[02:35:58] * richlowe really wants to be isolated in a gate when moving around in general.
[02:36:23] <stevel> ah yeah
[02:36:32] <stevel> that would require running multiple glassfish domains per webapp
[02:36:37] * stevel isn't sure how well that would scale
[02:36:47] <richlowe> or teaching opengrok to let me pin myself to a workspace :)
[02:36:54] <stevel> that's probably the better option
[02:37:31] <stevel> okay time for me to run. i'm heading off to korea - i'll be sporadically online over the next week
[02:37:36] <stevel> see you guys later
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[02:41:04] <richlowe> well, now who do we blame when stuff goes wrong? :)
[02:41:11] * richlowe nominates Gman
[02:42:48] <alanc> dcicero is the only other person I know who can break opensolaris.org, but stevel seems so much better at it 8-)
[02:43:19] <Gman> richlowe, if i was doing that stuff, i'd totally break it for you
[02:44:10] <alanc> we could get darrenm to teach us how to break the e-mail system with hg notification overloads
[02:44:14] <richlowe> Gman: happen to have X up on a sparc?
[02:44:25] <richlowe> alanc: stevel's better at that, too.
[02:44:54] <richlowe> alanc: if you recall, stevel bounced every putback to ON to its putbacker at one point.
[02:45:22] <alanc> yeah, he spreads the pain around much better, instead of letting just  a few suffer
[02:45:51] <richlowe> yeah, but the stuff he's got done makes it worth the pain. :)
[02:46:16] <Gman> richlowe, xsun, yeah
[02:46:18] <richlowe> as far as I can see, I figure everyone in MPK owes him a beer. :)
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[02:49:20] <richlowe> alanc: happen to know if Xsun is using segdev or segdrv segments for the fb mapping?
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[02:50:18] <richlowe> that may depend on hardware too, damnit.
[02:51:37] <alanc> richlowe: no clue
[02:51:51] <alanc> I don't even know what the difference is or how to tell
[02:52:16] <alanc> though I suspect it's something handled in the modules for each board, so not in our code, but in SPARC graphics
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[02:52:29] <richlowe> Well, segdrv was removed, so it's not using it *now*, but... :)
[02:53:03] <alanc> I'm sitting at a SB2500 running Xsun on an XVR-600 if there's something I can check
[02:53:06] <alanc> (s10u2)
[02:56:10] <alanc> though I'm thinking of upgrading it to Nevada once nv_53 is out
[02:56:41] <alanc> give gnome 2.16 a try
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[03:24:39] <gdamore> hi splat!
[03:28:33] <sahafeez> this is just 2 funny - but maybe old new but ..
[03:28:35] <sahafeez> root@guard$cat pkg/DESCR
[03:28:36] <sahafeez> Hot-babe is a small graphical utility which displays the system activity
[03:28:36] <sahafeez> in a very special way. When the CPU is idle, it displays a dressed girl,
[03:28:36] <sahafeez> and when the activity goes up, as the temperature increases, the girl
[03:28:37] <sahafeez> begins to undress, to finish totally naked when the system activity
[03:28:37] <sahafeez> reaches 100%. Of course, if you can be shocked by nudity, don't use it!
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[03:29:43] <Gman> virtuagirl!
[03:31:58] <sahafeez> Gman anything on drag+drop ;)
[03:32:07] <Gman> heh, no
[03:32:40] <sahafeez> k, thought i would ask.
[03:33:00] <sahafeez> i am waiting to install a build that works.
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[03:33:58] <alanc> need to reverse the direction of that, so you're rewarded for keeping cpu activity low, not making it go higher
[03:34:42] <gdamore> hmm... do we have man pages for libusb intefacs yet?
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[03:44:30] <richlowe> gdamore: libusb(3lib)?
[03:44:52] <gdamore> the one in S10, at least, is verybrief with a reference to /usr/share/doc
[03:44:55] <richlowe> ... oh, but the interfaces it documents, aren't documented.
[03:44:57] <richlowe> "nice"
[03:45:30] <richlowe> gdamore: yeah, same.  I glanced at it and thought the list would be followed by a SEE ALSO...
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[03:47:47] <gdamore> the obnoxious thing is, the doc in /usr/sfw/share basically _has_ man pages embedded into it.
[03:48:17] <gdamore> i wonder if i should file an RFE for this.
[03:48:42] <boyd> Bah, why is Firefox 2 blocking popus that I've allowed?
[03:49:00] <jamesd> boyd, it knows better than you..
[03:50:16] <boyd> It brings up the "blocked a popoup" banner, with the preferences menu offering to "block popups for..." which implies that I've already allowed them.
[03:51:21] <boyd> I suppose I should be asking in #firefox... is there one?
[03:51:51] <Rohinton> yes
[03:51:51] <boyd> Yep
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[03:53:53] <Rohinton> How much interaction is there with this and gnusol?
[03:54:20] <boyd> Some people in both camps... gnusol uses code from opensolaris
[03:54:47] <Rohinton> Is Nexenta the RH for OpenSolaris?
[03:55:20] <Error_404> what does that even mean?
[03:55:20] <icon> Rohinton: that is not a good comparision
[03:55:20] <Rohinton> I am interested as I think there is some milage in having one...
[03:55:26] <boyd> It's more like opensolaris is a code base that there are dists based on. One is "Solaris" by sun, Nexenta is another
[03:55:28] <LeftWing> It's the Chrysler of Cars!
[03:55:38] <Rohinton> ok
[03:56:09] * icon keeps his feelings of gnusol to himself...
[03:56:10] <boyd> ... so is martux, belenix and schillix
[03:56:15] <Rohinton> So sun are the technology provider and Nexenta implements/distributes?
[03:56:18] <Error_404> I don't personally see the point in nexenta beyond "oh, you can do it... that's neat"
[03:56:42] <richlowe> I don't use it, but it seems kinda neat.
[03:56:49] <movement> Error_404: for one, you can bittorrent it without some stupid registration thing
[03:57:02] <richlowe> movement: so, yeah.
[03:57:04] <movement> (and hand out vmware images)
[03:57:19] <richlowe> movement: I don't know whether to curse you, or accept this is more interesting than painful :)
[03:57:41] * boyd wonders why his client won't autocomplete "Rohinton"
[03:57:55] <Rohinton> Hmm don't you think that it can top Linux?
[03:58:10] <Error_404> Rohinton: it already has
[03:58:13] <icon> Rohinton: uhh. it has for years
[03:58:16] <richlowe> movement: (trying to figure out mapping perms, or at least lie believably about them)
[03:58:19] <movement> richlowe: ah, go for the latter
[03:58:26] <movement> the not-cursing
[03:58:30] <Rohinton> right - now we need to get the rest of the world to agree... :)
[03:58:33] <Error_404> they do
[03:58:38] <richlowe> movement: it seemed simple, for a good hour or two.
[03:58:42] <richlowe> movement: then I noticed the per-page stuff. :\
[03:58:45] <Error_404> solaris has been around & trusted since the 80's
[03:58:58] <Error_404> ebay is a solaris shop, for one large example
[03:58:59] <movement> richlowe: hrm, I wouldn't worry too much about that
[03:59:14] <icon> lets not even go into sun + oracle
[03:59:23] <icon> where there is an oracle shop, sun hardware is soon to follow
[03:59:26] <richlowe> the problem is providing as much information as is possible, without effectively reimplementing procfs for it.
[03:59:28] <Rohinton> right - but now that it's free what's stopping people pushing it? over Linux...
[03:59:31] <icon> ... for a reason
[03:59:50] <Error_404> Rohinton: i don't follow your argument
[03:59:56] <Rohinton> sun + oracle use to be the case, but they now use linux for base dev..
[04:00:15] <icon> Rohinton: uh huh. how many oracle shops have you actually worked at?
[04:00:33] <boyd> oracle seem to change their base dev platform regularly. It used to be Tru64
[04:01:00] <Rohinton> Hmm, VMS then unix...
[04:01:06] <icon> hell, ive seen admins so sold on solaris that they would go through the pain of maintaining websphere farms on solaris
[04:01:17] <icon> thats no mean feat given ibm's comittment to screwing with all things java and sun
[04:01:37] <Rohinton> so what does it take to get people to look at solaris over linux...
[04:01:58] <icon> Rohinton: it doesnt. it sounds to me you are referring to linux desktop users
[04:02:01] <Error_404> Rohinton: eyes?
[04:02:19] <Error_404> a functioning prefrontal cortex?
[04:02:31] <icon> Error_404: motor skills :)
[04:02:40] <Rohinton> :)
[04:02:50] <Error_404> a desire to remain profitable
[04:04:22] <Rohinton> we agree that solaris is better than linux and now that it's free, why are people just jumping on Linux without considering solaris?
[04:04:48] <LeftWing> That's a fairly broad generalisation, what are you basing that on?
[04:04:57] <alanc> because not everyone agrees with us
[04:05:29] <icon> Rohinton: more linux users dont really fall into one of solaris's main constituancy (sic)
[04:05:37] <icon> 1) admins 2) developers
[04:05:57] <Error_404> desktop wise, because linux is hyped up & people who don't know anything are sheep... server wise, they're not jumping to linux
[04:05:58] <icon> if youre a hobbyist, chances are you really dont care about more than how much sex appeal a desktop can get you
[04:05:58] <boyd> people do not always buy the best. VHS, Windows, IE...
[04:06:06] <alanc> hmm, I should sign up my gmail address to a bugster bug just to see what the external updates look like
[04:06:35] <icon> alanc: make sure you use + extensions... i get burned when i use my base address i cant easily filter :/
[04:06:46] <icon> (i think gmail supports it...)
[04:07:30] <icon> question for you other project guys
[04:07:34] <icon> do you prefer hg or svn?
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[04:08:08] <icon> tool support for hg is pretty light still, and svn irritates the crap out of me
[04:08:11] <skyde> hi
[04:08:30] <skyde> can i use only zfs as filesystem
[04:08:31] * delewis hates the svn build system
[04:08:36] <delewis> way too much dependence on libtool
[04:08:37] <skyde> or i still need ufs
[04:08:49] <delewis> skyde: you still need UFS for root
[04:08:50] <Rohinton> Ok - got to do some kid stuff will be back soon... Nice chatting this is the first time I have used irc... and me being so old...
[04:08:51] <icon> skyde: for now you can only install to a ufs root
[04:08:54] <Error_404> skyde: at the moment you can't boot off zfs, so ufsroot
[04:09:03] <skyde> ok
[04:09:06] <jlc> uhoh, its a solaris vs linux conversation
[04:09:16] <skyde> ?
[04:09:24] <richlowe> alanc: think your funny, eh? :)
[04:09:29] <richlowe> alanc: ... or are you actually working on that?
[04:09:30] <jlc> sounds the same if your in a bsd or linux channel.....
[04:09:34] <jlc> :)
[04:09:35] <richlowe> damn "you're"
[04:09:42] <alanc> heh wondered how long it would take to get a response
[04:09:51] <richlowe> 6 minutes. :)
[04:09:55] <alanc> no, was just cleaning out my bug list and saw that sitting there
[04:09:59] <icon> delewis: are there plans to get on one sccs?
[04:10:07] <icon> gah, scs rather
[04:10:10] <alanc> doubt I'll get to it until after Xorg 7.2 is in
[04:10:15] <skyde> what is the desktop / windows manager in opensolaris
[04:10:27] <icon> gnome/metacity
[04:10:28] <jlc> gnome/metacity
[04:10:32] <jlc> doh
[04:10:40] <jlc> cde too......
[04:10:43] <alanc> gnome, but it's called "java desktop" to confuse you
[04:10:54] <icon> isnt cde being dropped for 5.11?
[04:11:09] <alanc> quite possibly, but not officially set yet
[04:13:18] <alanc> richlowe: but of course, now you'll know if/when I do get to it
[04:13:38] <icon> alanc: are they dumping /usr/dt as well?
[04:13:39] <skyde> why should i use solaris other than zfs
[04:14:04] <icon> skyde: what do you use it for?
[04:14:42] <richlowe> alanc: indeed. :)
[04:14:43] <alanc> icon: even if they dump the cde apps, libraries like motif would still be there to keep binary compatibility and not screw over people running the many motif apps out there, so there will probably be a /usr/dt for a long time
[04:15:03] <icon> alanc: ahh didnt think of that
[04:15:08] <delewis> just as there is a /usr/openwin still
[04:15:17] <icon> is dtlogin going to be replaced with gdm then?
[04:15:38] <alanc> well, there's still all of Xsun in /usr/openwin too, but I'm cleaning X out of /usr/openwin one package at a time in Nevada
[04:15:43] <alanc> icon: yes
[04:15:46] <icon> wow
[04:15:57] <icon> so Xsun is getting dropped too then
[04:16:06] <delewis> icon: eventually.
[04:16:12] <richlowe> hopefully.
[04:16:13] <skyde> icon : database server
[04:16:44] <icon> skyde: depending on load, i think youll see better perf out of solaris
[04:16:45] <alanc> gdm would be the default already if  it had a replacement for "command line login" - it's waiting for virtual consoles to solve that problem for it
[04:16:48] <boyd> If xev goes, I'm outta here :)
[04:16:59] <delewis> not to mention observability is always important on database servers
[04:17:05] <icon> yup
[04:17:06] <delewis> and you get that with DTrace
[04:17:13] <richlowe> and p*
[04:17:13] <icon> not sure would i would do without pfstat or dtrace
[04:17:14] <delewis> with Linux there is no 'supported' equivalent of DTrace.
[04:17:18] <alanc> icon: Xsun will be dropped when all the supported graphics devices can be run under Xorg
[04:17:19] <icon> damnit
[04:17:20] <icon> prstat
[04:17:36] <boyd> alanc: for some values of "supported"
[04:17:47] <alanc> but there's big gaps of SPARC graphics and Sun Ray to cross before we get there
[04:17:48] <delewis> alanc: hopefully, that's still a few years away.. :-)
[04:17:55] <icon> alanc: gotcha. im assuming its sparc holding up the move?
[04:17:56] <delewis> "big gaps" doesn't describe it.
[04:18:03] <skyde> and as desktop computer
[04:18:10] <alanc> boyd: for the values of supported that haven't been EOF'ed by then
[04:18:10] <skyde> or laptop computer
[04:18:22] <boyd> alanc: indeed :)
[04:18:25] <richlowe> delewis: hey, there's cg6 support in Xorg isn't there?
[04:18:29] <richlowe> delewis: that's part of your worry gone ;)
[04:18:30] <icon> alanc: i thought the ray's were using ati chipsets?
[04:18:49] <delewis> richlowe: there's a few UPA framebuffers that aren't supported in Xorg still
[04:18:49] <alanc> icon: they are, but that doesn't matter
[04:19:02] <delewis> a lot of the Sun ones, actually.
[04:19:04] <jlc> skyde, It can be a good desktop, but not as easy to get going as say bsd/linux
[04:19:11] <jlc> package wise
[04:19:16] <alanc> are there any UPA frame buffers that aren't Sun ones?
[04:19:24] <delewis> alanc: true
[04:19:25] <delewis> :-)
[04:19:26] <icon> alanc: i guess im being dense. is it just not a supported chipset at all then?
[04:19:26] <jlc> unless you use nexenta I guess
[04:19:34] <delewis> alanc: the Elite3D has an Xorg driver, I think
[04:19:48] <delewis> but a lot of the XVRs (the ones that UPA, I think) aren't supported yet
[04:19:48] <richlowe> icon: you're thinking of the wrong side of the Sun Ray connection.
[04:19:51] <delewis> like XVR-1000
[04:19:53] <richlowe> icon: think server, not client.
[04:19:56] <delewis> but I'm not 100% certain on that.
[04:20:00] <jlc> but my 3945 wireless does not work for this laptop, so um it has linux installed on it
[04:20:09] <icon> bah, sorry about that
[04:20:16] <alanc> icon: chipset doesn't matter to Sun Ray - the X server "driver" module for Sun Ray has to speak Sun Ray protocol over a network, it doesn't talk to graphics hardware
[04:20:20] <delewis> I could probably "live" with cg6, Elite3D, and XVR-1000 supported.
[04:20:25] <delewis> s/supported/support/
[04:20:38] <delewis> c3d support wouldn't be bad, either :-)
[04:20:56] <boyd> Ah... I found my firefox popup problem... even when you allow popups they block more than a certain number from a single site... hmm
[04:20:58] <alanc> there's an ffb driver in Xorg - haven't tried it on any Creator cards though
[04:22:21] <delewis> hmm, I guess the move to Xorg wouldn't be too bad then
[04:22:31] <delewis> on second look, there's support for a lot of framebuffers
[04:22:40] <delewis> I just hope Sun decides to include those in their Xorg consolidation
[04:22:44] <alanc> hmm, cleaned my open bug/CR list down to 124...though I cheated a bit by creating a "integrate Xorg 7.2" bug and closing a bunch of others as dups of it
[04:23:04] <boyd> hehe
[04:23:07] <alanc> delewis: TBD, but they're open source, so even if we don't someone else could build them
[04:23:26] <icon> hmm thats odd
[04:23:30] * Stric would be quite happy for just 2d support for the c3d.. the 3d part isn't much to have anyway :P
[04:23:45] <alanc> only one bug left assigned to me with a bug id starting with a 1...
[04:23:46] <icon> my load averages are >1 and the box is basically running idle
[04:23:50] <alanc> (filed 1996)
[04:23:57] <delewis> icon: prstat -m is your friend.
[04:24:07] <icon> running prstat now... cant see whats going on
[04:24:16] <delewis> icon: with microstate accounting enabled?
[04:24:25] <icon> is now :)
[04:24:53] <icon> jesus, print-svc is going nuts
[04:25:00] <boyd> Hey, alanc, you may know this... I noticed last night that a whole bunch of dtlogin related bugs were last modified on Oct 14 2006... some after being there since like 1995.. any idea why?
[04:25:35] <alanc> CDE responsible manager changed - probably just the mass reassigning of all the bugs to the new victim
[04:25:47] <alanc> if you have a bug id, I can check it's change log
[04:26:25] <gdamore> any word on when the EOF for CDE is going to be?
[04:27:11] <icon> there we go
[04:27:16] <icon> that was really strange
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[04:28:04] <alanc> gdamore: after Trusted JDS gets equivalents to all the Trusted CDE admin tools it's still missing
[04:28:17] <alanc> don't know yet when that will be
[04:28:29] <gdamore> well, if that takes a while, it will be a good thing.  i'm not happy about not having an alternate light weight environment
[04:28:40] <boyd> alanc: Ah... 1213165
[04:28:49] <icon> is sun planning on adding new functionality to gnome?
[04:28:54] <icon> ie: a menu editor that doesnt suck
[04:29:02] <Gman> heh
[04:29:11] <Gman> there's a editor called 'alacarte'
[04:29:14] <icon> sorry Gman :)
[04:29:15] <Gman> that's the one we're currently shipping
[04:29:16] <gdamore> btw, anyone know how i can type arbitrary characters like the british "pounds" character.  the compose sequences i expected arent' working in X.
[04:29:19] <alanc> heh - the Sun IT-run Sun Rays changed the dtlogin screen to rename CDE to "Unsupported Lightweight Roaming Desktop"
[04:29:20] <icon> ive used ala for years :)
[04:29:30] <Gman> icon, it's quite alright, i'm well used to it
[04:29:35] <delewis> gdamore: change to an appropriate locale
[04:29:39] <icon> didnt know if it was going to be packaged along with jds or not
[04:29:41] <delewis> i.e. no "C"
[04:29:46] <gdamore> alanc: that's hilarious.
[04:29:52] <gdamore> thanks delewis.
[04:29:57] <alanc> iso-8859-1 chars usually work in C locale
[04:30:08] <gdamore> that's what I would _have_ thought.
[04:30:15] * delewis shrug
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[04:30:23] <delewis> I just no I tried doing it with "C" and never had any luck
[04:30:28] <alanc> though C is officially an ASCII locale
[04:30:37] <delewis> I changed to ISO-8859-1 and everything worked fine.
[04:30:42] <boyd> It's "C" and a pen
[04:30:45] <icon> gdamore: it does until you get into the upper end of the byte
[04:30:46] <gdamore> alanc: id think the IT guys would be balking about people switching to JDS on their sun ray servers.  Its kinda resource consumptive.
[04:30:56] <delewis> alanc: I don't think it's a matter of the characters being there -- it's a matter of the keys being mapped properly in the locale.
[04:31:12] <icon> > 0x7f and you have issues
[04:31:29] <gdamore> hmm... but if I'm using compose sequences, i should be able to insert them.  but maybe e.g. firefox doesn't like high-bit characters in "C".
[04:31:45] <gdamore> (certainly at the "console" this isn't a problem)
[04:31:49] <delewis> gdamore: like I said, I never had any luck.
[04:32:02] <delewis> I could only use the Compose sequences in ISO-8859-1 or one of the UTF locales.
[04:32:09] <icon> gdamore: are you sure that ffox isnt using wchar's underneath the scenes?
[04:32:20] <alanc> yeah - gnome seems to restrict it more than older X apps - possibly because gtk had to create their own input methods instead of using the system ones
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[04:32:34] <delewis> I had trouble doing this in a dtterm
[04:32:35] <delewis> :-)
[04:32:49] <delewis> I don't think GTK absence or presence is relevant.
[04:32:49] <gdamore> icon: NFI.  it doesn't work in xterm or dtterm either.
[04:32:53] <alanc> just login in a locale with a better charset
[04:33:04] <gdamore> will try that later. :-/
[04:33:15] <icon> hurmph
[04:33:36] <delewis> gdamore: there's always TWM as a light-weight solution :-)
[04:33:46] <icon> ouch
[04:33:50] <gdamore> heh.  twm works, sort of.
[04:33:55] <icon> now that brings back memories ;)
[04:34:00] <icon> black and white twm... ahh
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[04:34:08] <delewis> I remember when OpenWindows looked like TWM.
[04:34:23] <delewis> er, well, used TWM.
[04:34:29] <icon> hrmm i first messed with olwm in the late 90's
[04:34:30] <gdamore> i used twm in college  the first time i saw it the window placement policy confused the hell out of me.  i didn't understand why my windows weren't getting displayed
[04:34:41] <icon> haha
[04:34:55] <gdamore> i remember when fvwm came out.  it was "light weight" compared twm. :-)
[04:35:06] <icon> ugh
[04:35:09] <icon> remember fvwm95?
[04:35:17] <icon> back win win95 was all the rage...
[04:35:18] <delewis> fvwm-themes was cool :-)
[04:35:21] <delewis> especially, the CDE style
[04:35:25] <delewis> there's a proposal
[04:35:26] <alanc> I remember when the cool kids were switching from twm to ctwm to get virtual workspaces
[04:35:29] <delewis> Sun should ship fvwm-themes
[04:35:34] <delewis> with the CDE theme enabled by default
[04:35:47] <LeftWing> heh
[04:35:48] <delewis> that would solve 2 problems
[04:35:53] <delewis> (1) the problem of people wanting CDE
[04:35:54] <delewis> and (2)
[04:35:59] <delewis> the problem of people wanting a light-weight WM.
[04:36:23] <icon> you know
[04:36:32] <gdamore> delewis++
[04:36:43] <icon> everytime i log into cde i feel like im back on my sparc... it seems rather twisted in a sick way
[04:37:02] <delewis> http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/screenshots/full/luthien.gif
[04:37:02] <icon> 'wait a second...'
[04:37:05] <delewis> that's one theme
[04:37:08] <delewis> that sort of resembles the CDE theme
[04:37:14] <delewis> but I can't find a screenshot of the CDE theme, itself.
[04:37:56] <Stric> delewis: or use xfce..
[04:37:57] <gdamore> http://www.xs4all.nl/~josvanr/cdemu.jpg
[04:37:58] <delewis> http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/screenshots/full/cde.gif
[04:38:00] <delewis> oh, there it is.
[04:38:12] <delewis> it's a fairly decent approximation, I think.
[04:38:23] <delewis> Stric: I despise xfce
[04:38:24] <icon> wow thats not bad
[04:38:27] <delewis> mostly for it's GTK-like nature.
[04:38:28] <twincest> scrollbars look a bit wrong to me
[04:38:37] <twincest> too wide
[04:38:46] <delewis> and XFce was meant to be an open-source CDE replacement, anyway. :-)
[04:38:48] <icon> that first screenshot was pretty damned good
[04:38:49] <gdamore> that's tweakable in the theme, probably.
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[04:38:58] <gdamore> xfce is nice.  i like it better than cde.
[04:39:10] <LeftWing> xfce is great.
[04:39:28] <icon> with 4.4 ill consider leaving gnome... xfce has always been my favorite, but i happen to like having icons on my desktop
[04:39:31] <icon> and thunar looks excellent
[04:39:36] <gdamore> gnome, on the other hand, is a bloated pig that nobody should run on a shared system.
[04:39:40] <LeftWing> It's light, fluffy and supports Xinerama.  Thunar is cool, yeah.
[04:39:54] <delewis> gdamore: yes
[04:39:54] <gdamore> what is thunar?
[04:39:59] <icon> xfce's new fm
[04:40:04] <delewis> I don't mind running JDS on my single-user workstation.
[04:40:15] <delewis> but running JDS on a SunRay server would require insane resources.
[04:40:15] <LeftWing> Xfce's old FM was garbage, but Thunar is great.
[04:40:16] <icon> http://thunar.xfce.org/index.html
[04:40:23] <delewis> (Sun uses V880s as SunRay servers)...
[04:40:31] <icon> delewis: jesus
[04:40:32] <delewis> fairly loaded V880s, IIRC.
[04:40:39] <icon> how many clients do they server from there?
[04:40:46] <delewis> icon: no clue
[04:40:50] <gdamore> i am probably still running the old file manager.  but i never use a file manager apart from "tcsh", and "find".
[04:40:55] <delewis> I got this information from stevel
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[04:41:07] <icon> gdamore: i use it more for desktop management etc.
[04:41:10] <icon> otherwise im in a term
[04:41:14] * LeftWing runs away to work.
[04:41:51] <icon> hmmm. does the sun ray server support widescreen resolutions?
[04:42:13] <delewis> yes
[04:42:20] <gdamore> yep.
[04:42:29] <gdamore> thunar looks pretty cool.
[04:42:35] * delewis knows of people using Sun Rays on Dell widescreens
[04:42:42] <icon> wondering if its worth picking up a 2fs so it supports my dell widescreen
[04:42:54] <icon> how much does the larger resolution cut down on responsiveness?
[04:42:59] <icon> (or does it at all?)
[04:44:05] <gdamore> not much at all.
[04:44:15] <gdamore> running streaming video at high resolution would suck though.
[04:44:24] <icon> hm
[04:44:35] <gdamore> the sunray 1g should support the dell 24" widescreen, i think.
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[04:44:56] <icon> guessing it doesnt support dri (or whichever x extension that allows an app to change resolutions at runtime)
[04:45:00] <gdamore> so should the sunray 2.  no need for an FS unless you want xinerama.
[04:45:19] <icon> gdamore: well, im at 1680x1050 - looking at the specs, it only does 1600x1200
[04:45:39] <gdamore> hang on, let me check the _source_ :-)
[04:45:42] <icon> haha
[04:46:09] <gdamore> (no, i was serious)
[04:46:14] <icon> oh i know :)
[04:46:40] <icon> just needs to support 60hz
[04:46:43] <icon> 70 would be nice though
[04:46:52] <gdamore> that resolution isn't in the set i see.
[04:46:55] <icon> damn
[04:47:09] <icon> well, i have a 19" tft sitting around i dont use anymore, i could just throw it on there
[04:47:10] <gdamore> the only 1050 resolution that i see is 1400x1050
[04:47:14] <boyd> Freakin' Nvidia decided that they wouldn't drive my dell widescreen at max res any more
[04:47:27] <gdamore> there is 1920x1200, and 1920x1080, though
[04:47:32] <icon> boyd: hrmm im not having issues on my 2005fp... what model do you have?
[04:47:35] <gdamore> weird.
[04:47:36] <icon> gdamore: wow
[04:47:48] <boyd> icon: 2405fpw of the top of my head
[04:48:00] <gdamore> 2405fpw is what i have.  it runs at 1900x1200 just fine.
[04:48:02] <icon> hmm same as mine, just the 24" model
[04:48:08] <icon> what chipset are you using?
[04:48:12] <gdamore> nvidia.
[04:48:13] <boyd> gdamore: on DVI?
[04:48:16] <gdamore> yep.
[04:48:27] <icon> well, im using a quadro 540 using dvi to the 2005fpw
[04:48:31] <icon> no issues at all
[04:48:40] <gdamore> i seem to recall this is a geforce card.  just a sec.
[04:48:51] <boyd> On my card it wont drive to the native res since a driver update from nvidia... I'm using nv at the moment
[04:49:01] <icon> boyd: ouch :/
[04:49:02] <gdamore> nvidia-settings says its a Geforce 6600
[04:49:08] <icon> hmm
[04:49:39] <icon> which driver are you using boyd?
[04:49:44] <boyd> Mine's a GeForce FX 5700 used to work fine
[04:49:46] <icon> ive got 1.0-8776 here
[04:49:53] <boyd> umm
[04:50:01] <icon> (run nvidia-settings)
[04:50:05] <gdamore> i'm using the "nvidia" driver though
[04:50:14] <gdamore> (not "nv")
[04:51:30] <boyd> If I use "nvidia" I can't get native res... but I could in an old version.... looking for numbers..
[04:51:50] <icon> iirc nvidia keeps the archive online
[04:51:51] <boyd> Ok, so it worked at native res on 1.0-7667
[04:52:26] <boyd> but with the current ones on the same xorg.conf it says it's outside the DVI 150MHz clock maximum and wont do it
[04:52:42] <boyd> (I think it works out to like 154Mhz)
[04:52:49] <gdamore> ouch.  that sucks.
[04:53:09] <boyd> Does one of you want to donate an xorg.conf that I can try?
[04:53:18] <gdamore> i posted one a while ago.
[04:53:36] <boyd> gdamore: Where?
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[04:53:53] <gdamore> oops.  sorry about that.
[04:54:17] <boyd> gdamore: thought I'd offended you :)
[04:54:18] <gdamore> so i posted it on rafb, but hang on while i post a new one on ftp.
[04:54:26] <boyd> OK... thanks
[04:54:36] <skyde> what people need to adopt UNIX as a desktop pc "real gaming support like directx ?"
[04:54:40] * boyd won't be able to try it for a few days, but still....
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[04:55:17] <skyde> i know people who use openoffice and firefox but dont want to use a unix os
[04:55:28] <gdamore> its via http, not ftp but try http://garrett.damore.org/software/opensolaris/xorg.conf
[04:55:47] * boyd tries
[04:55:56] <gdamore> this includes a 19" viewsonic screen with my 2405, using xinerama
[04:56:20] <boyd> gdamore: Ok.. I'll try... but it's so simple... I'm sure I must have tried something like that
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[04:56:38] <boyd> gdamore: thanks
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[04:57:06] <gdamore> np
[04:57:22] <icon> hrmm
[04:57:25] <icon> need to change my tz
[04:57:32] <gdamore> actually, this uses twinview, which is pretty much just like xinerama
[04:58:01] <gdamore> i'm probably using an older version of the driver, though.
[04:58:07] <icon> this is odd
[04:58:27] <gdamore> 1.0-8756 according to nvidia-settings
[04:58:46] * icon grumbles about ntp
[04:59:25] <boyd> gdamore: I'll try when I get to the machine in question.. thanks
[04:59:33] <gdamore> np.
[04:59:38] <the-decider> icon: what kind of grousin' you doin' about ntp?
[05:00:01] <icon> the-decider: the fact i need to get it enabled on this box :)
[05:00:43] <the-decider> nice little sample conf files in /etc/inet...
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[05:01:08] <boyd> It's trivial if you don't try to read and understand the docs on www.ntp.org :)
[05:01:09] <icon> yup :)
[05:01:12] <the-decider> just copy ntp.[client|server] to ntp.conf, edit it to your needs (pick your servers) and svcadm enable...
[05:01:21] <icon> nah, ive used ntp for years, ive just been lazy on this new install
[05:01:26] <the-decider> boyd: heh, that's FUN.  I mean, when you really get into the time-geeking...
[05:01:51] <boyd> the-decider: Yeah, but for people just starting it looks harder than it needs to
[05:01:57] <the-decider> I mean, back in the day, I remember running those NTP servers on Ultrix...
[05:02:22] <the-decider> agreed.  hense, the nice sample files in /etc/inet.
[05:02:55] <boyd> Even basic security is easier than the docs make it sound
[05:03:32] <the-decider> well, they tend to describe all of the capabilities, instead of being how-to-based.
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[05:04:00] <Rohinton> ultrix - oh the old days...
[05:04:35] <the-decider> It all went wrong with the Ultrix 4.4.  But 4.3a, that was teh shiznite.
[05:04:40] <Rohinton> so be kind, as I have just joined, do the people here work on opensolaris dev/support etc?
[05:05:13] <boyd> Some do...
[05:05:28] <Rohinton> Yes I had a pdp 11 ( an old VAX console ) running ultiix...
[05:05:44] <boyd> Some of us suckers just try to help in our copious spare time
[05:05:47] <the-decider> ah, ultrix VAX :)
[05:05:58] <the-decider> I only tended to use it on MIPS boxen.
[05:06:05] <icon> Rohinton: there are lots of @sun guys here
[05:06:06] <Rohinton> I am still a DECcie at heart....
[05:06:39] <the-decider> Never really... "got" OSF/1, though.  It ran fine, just...  I dunno.
[05:06:44] <Rohinton> nice to hear - I just want to say I am very impressed with what SUN has done with opensolaris...
[05:06:47] * boyd is a refugee from the sinking DEC ship
[05:07:00] <Rohinton> osf/1 - That Mach based thing....
[05:07:11] <Rohinton> oh nice - ZK?
[05:07:20] <boyd> the-decider: You mean Digital Unix^W^WCompaq Tru64 Unix^W^W^WHP Tru64 Unix
[05:07:42] <boyd> Rohinton nah... here in Melbourne, Australia
[05:07:47] <Rohinton> ok
[05:08:00] <the-decider> I liked the Non-stop UX name...  Kind of like Oracle and "unbreakable"
[05:08:23] <Rohinton> I miss that company but that's what happens when engineers run things....
[05:08:24] <boyd> I thought they only used that in reference to the Tandem stuff
[05:08:51] <Rohinton> Yes - Compaq bought that did'nt they?
[05:08:56] <the-decider> So, my project for tomorrow is to try to port the Sun ON 'ypserv' to be able to use GDBM as the backing store... (as ndbm is horribly broken.)
[05:08:58] <boyd> They had many good products that seemed to be crying out for someone to introduce them.
[05:09:09] <boyd> Rohinton, yes CQ did
[05:09:10] <icon> cripes, how do companies justify charging almost 2000 for an 8 port console server?!
[05:09:22] <Rohinton> supply and demand...
[05:09:29] <the-decider> (it has problems with it's hashing algorithm when you get to a certain # of "like" keys, like you your passwd.byid map)
[05:09:31] <icon> i just want a frigging 8 port non-secured serial server for my rack at home. this is killing me
[05:09:32] <gdamore> the decider: i've done that before.
[05:09:49] <gdamore> its not hard.
[05:09:52] <boyd> icon: You could buy a PC with 8 serial ports for less than that
[05:09:59] <boyd> ... and it would do ssh
[05:10:04] <boyd> .. and conserver
[05:10:12] <the-decider> gdamore: I've been using the "linux" ypserv built on solaris, but it has some serious suck problems.
[05:10:15] <richlowe> 8 serial ports, maybe, as long as it wasn't an 8 port card.
[05:10:18] <icon> boyd: trying to cut down on power usage
[05:10:23] <the-decider> gdamore: care to share?
[05:10:23] <richlowe> multi-port serial gets to close as expensive.
[05:10:25] <gdamore> linux ypserv sucks badly.
[05:10:28] <icon> as it is the opteron sucks up 500W
[05:10:33] <gdamore> i don't have the source anymore. qualcomm does.
[05:10:38] <the-decider> garr.
[05:10:57] <boyd> icon: I know a way to save power.... don't have 8 boxes :)
[05:11:00] <the-decider> eh, well, shouldn't be too much of an excercies.  the API's are pretty much 1:1.
[05:11:21] <icon> boyd: im down to 3 counting a laptop :P
[05:11:22] <gdamore> yeah, its pretty much a slam dunk.
[05:11:34] <icon> probably going to toss one box and put a ray in its place
[05:11:39] <gdamore> we did it to fix the 1024 limit on dbm entries.
[05:11:48] <boyd> icon: So connect the serial ports of the other two to each other:)
[05:11:49] <icon> but i have quite a bit of networking hardware here too
[05:11:56] <boyd> icon: Ah
[05:12:22] <the-decider> Yeah -- when it's hashing algorithm forces the .pag file to be > 2G, but it's internal pointer size can't deal... :)
[05:12:25] <boyd> Gee.. it's a different feeling over in #firefox at irc dot mozilla.org... They're talking about doing homework...
[05:12:28] <gdamore> icon: i really need to get my multiport serial driver working.  then you could use a via fanless system to d o the console server
[05:12:49] <boyd> What about USB->serial?
[05:12:55] <gdamore> try hanging out with the NetBSD folks times.  now _there's_ a bunch of old geezers. :-)
[05:12:55] <icon> gdamore: true but its still not stateless
[05:12:58] <boyd> the you could use a hub
[05:12:59] <Rohinton> you need to have lat...
[05:13:05] <icon> i only use the console server for initial setups and worst case senarios
[05:13:07] * the-decider thinks of a way to make the backend db "pluggable", or at least selectable between different formats.
[05:13:09] <boyd> Ah! LAT!
[05:13:15] <Rohinton> local area terminals...
[05:13:30] <Rohinton> Yes boyd - real fun stuff...
[05:13:37] * the-decider remembers fondly our VISTA terminal servers (DEC-work-aklikes)
[05:13:40] * boyd was trying to forget the last time he had to support DECNet on Digital Unix
[05:13:47] <gdamore> icon: what do you mean by stateless?
[05:13:56] <gdamore> i.e. what state are you concerned about?
[05:14:37] <boyd> How annoying would people find a bot that announces putbacks here?
[05:14:56] <gdamore> depends on the frequency, and amount of content, i suppose
[05:14:59] <the-decider> DECNet had it right -- none of this ARP-like crap... just munge up your MAC address...
[05:15:04] <gdamore> i'd rather have the bot send it in e-mail.
[05:15:11] <boyd> "dougm: 6281048 NFS needs simplified administration (fix lint)"
[05:15:20] <boyd> gdamore: you can get that now
[05:15:26] <gdamore> one liners aren't too bad.
[05:15:27] <icon> gdamore: lets assume i punk the main interface config on my router
[05:15:30] <the-decider> boyd: that is quite a loaded one.
[05:15:37] <gdamore> how do i get the e-mail?
[05:15:39] <icon> gdamore: i go to shell into the terminal server to see whats up, and my hdd is blown
[05:15:44] <boyd> I just picked the latest
[05:15:52] <icon> gdamore: solid state might have been more accurate
[05:16:11] <Rohinton> Ah yes - during so testing I felt that opensolaris was slower than Nexenta, not sure with alpha 6 - comments?
[05:16:13] <icon> not to mention even an itx sucks up around 80w of juice
[05:16:13] <boyd> gdamore: I can't remember :) lemme track it down
[05:16:15] <gdamore> icon: so, whats the problem, you build a terminal server around a via system running linux or solaris from CF, with a PCI multiport serial card.
[05:16:29] <icon> gdamore: okay, touche :)
[05:16:45] <the-decider> icon: I've always been partial to the Cyclades serial console-server stuff.
[05:16:56] <icon> ive only used digi, never tried cyclades
[05:17:09] <boyd> gdamore: http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/onnv-notify
[05:17:10] <gdamore> the digi ports worked really well at Sun.
[05:17:15] <icon> i take that back, i have worked on some lucent/avaya stuff back in the day
[05:17:15] <the-decider> it's solid stuff.  they've even got one-serial-port versions.
[05:17:21] <gdamore> boyd: thanks!
[05:17:24] <the-decider> ssh'able, etc.
[05:17:26] <icon> the-decider: hrmm
[05:17:29] <icon> that would be nice
[05:17:33] <gdamore> they're just not cheap, is all.
[05:17:40] <icon> yeah
[05:18:02] <icon> i was digging around the other day, and i actually found a cisco router that was < 300$ that supports 5 active vpn tunnels
[05:18:14] <icon> i think im going to grab that one... i was pretty impressed. even has ios on it
[05:18:15] <boyd> Hahahahaha... I pointed a friend at a news story about a prisoner in Austria who posted himself out of jail: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2062067.html?menu=
[05:18:28] <boyd> ... he replied with "Similar to the same way that GIs during WW2 posted parts of Jeeps back home, until they had an entire vehicle, couldn't you post home parts of yourself, until you were finally entirely out of jail? "
[05:18:33] <the-decider> icon: look around ebay for some of the cisco 2500 routers with serial ports.
[05:18:54] <the-decider> icon: I've heard of people using them as terminal servers.
[05:19:19] <icon> ahh now that brings back some memories
[05:19:30] <icon> cant tell you how many frigging 2500's ive had to config and maintain
[05:19:33] <LeftWing> Lucent Portmaster 2E!
[05:19:38] <LeftWing> They're pretty awesome.
[05:19:39] <gdamore> i'm trying to get a Jetway based VIA C7 board that has dual gigE on it.  anyone used Solaris on the jetway systems before?
[05:19:48] <the-decider> icon: because what you're looking for is something that is, actually, "more reliable" than what you're connecting to...  And those things are pretty darn fireproof.
[05:19:57] <icon> yeah they are
[05:19:59] <the-decider> ooh...  Annex terminal servers... there ya go.
[05:20:04] <icon> but iirc they only support 3 interfaces
[05:20:06] <boyd> Rohinton: slower doing what?
[05:20:12] * LeftWing got two Lucent Portmaster 2E's off of eBay for AU$30 each.
[05:20:19] <the-decider> shit!
[05:20:20] <the-decider> damn.
[05:20:22] <LeftWing> One with 10 ports, one with 30 ports.
[05:20:24] <the-decider> good price.
[05:20:29] <LeftWing> Not bad, yeah
[05:20:31] <gdamore> _great_ price.
[05:20:39] <LeftWing> One was brand new in the original wrapping too.
[05:20:50] <boyd> Leftwing.... bastard
[05:20:57] <icon> wow
[05:21:00] <the-decider> then again, most gear I'm buying now has some sort of ssh-able management port that will do serial redirection.
[05:21:31] <gdamore> it would be easy to build a box around nevada that would do that. :-)
[05:22:07] <the-decider> which has taken the problem more to the "software" side of the equation.  We like having one box to log into (console.ourdomain.edu) where you can type "console <hostname>" and get the console for it...
[05:22:20] <gdamore> i'm looking to basically build an all-in one system, that does NAS, NIS (or maybe LDAP), DNS, and i'll probably throw a serial port or two on it. ;-)
[05:22:31] <the-decider> so now it has to deal with how to do serial-over-lan for <insert insane # of platforms here>
[05:22:44] <richlowe> and cursed IPMI
[05:23:00] <the-decider> IPMI hasn't really gotten me going yet.
[05:23:31] <the-decider> It's a great... SUPER idea...  but seems to be kind of like the PAM of remote management.
[05:23:33] <gdamore> i still find a serial port very useful for debug.  for example, sun ray firmware can be built with a debugger that works over the serial port. :-)
[05:23:38] <the-decider> "various implementations of various qualities."
[05:23:47] <icon> ?!
[05:23:47] <richlowe> the first thing that annoyed me was ipmitool being dumb enough to think 'chassis power cycle' failed because it didn't see a response...
[05:23:50] <richlowe> it got worse from there on out.
[05:23:51] <icon> scsi terminal server?
[05:23:54] <icon> now this is strange...
[05:24:03] <the-decider> icon: more common back in the day.
[05:24:13] <icon> interesting, ive never seen one before
[05:24:15] <gdamore> why not?  scsi is just another bus...
[05:24:29] <boyd> You could run that over iSCSI :)
[05:24:38] <richlowe> gdamore: make a gdb serial stub coexist peacefully with mdb :)
[05:24:39] <the-decider> Now, hey, let's get some of those sun SBUS 8-serial-port cards w/ breakout boxes.
[05:25:40] <gdamore> you gdb weenies.  real men rely on register dumps. :-)
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[05:26:08] * the-decider picks through his bubble memory.
[05:26:44] <the-decider> ok, hands for "wow, mdb is really cool... now, if it were just somewhat made easy to use..."
[05:27:03] <gdamore> compared to "adb", mdb is a frelling dream.
[05:27:28] <gdamore> compared to ddb (NetBSD), adb is a frelling dream.
[05:28:04] <libkeiser> yeah. mdb is really pretty easy to use. much more convenient than the damn aix kernel debugger...
[05:28:06] <the-decider> well, I've been told I should use mdb on coredumps instead of dbx or gdb because it's "better", but the docs on it cause me to drink heavily.
[05:28:15] <richlowe> gdamore: ...
[05:28:44] <gdamore> well, it depends on what you want to do with it.  I've never used dbx or gdb on a kernel core.
[05:28:46] <the-decider> because, 99% of the time, I just want a stack dump of a bunch of threads, and that's really easy to do it gdb or dbx... :shrug:
[05:28:57] <gdamore> on a _userland_ core, gdb or dbx would probably be a lot better.
[05:29:00] <delewis> mdb is better for kernel-debugging, period.
[05:29:07] <delewis> dbx is meant for application-debugging.
[05:29:08] <gdamore> $<threadlist in mdb
[05:29:11] <the-decider> gdamore: peeps have said that mdb is teh r0x0r for userland stuff to.  I think they're crazy.
[05:29:26] <delewis> the two (when used properly) have mutual-exclusive purposes.
[05:29:35] <libkeiser> it is once you start writing custom walkers and the like. it's called _modular_ for a reason ;)
[05:29:38] <the-decider> now, for kernel stuff -- yeah -- mdb is the only place it's at.
[05:29:41] <delewis> though, mdb is nice when doing simple things like register dumps.
[05:29:49] <delewis> application and kernel-level.
[05:29:57] <gdamore> i've never heard of using mdb for userland.  that seems insane if you have other choices.  for the kernel, mdb rocks.
[05:30:10] <delewis> gdamore: it's not bad if you're doing assembly.
[05:30:20] <richlowe> it's not *bad* in general.
[05:30:21] <the-decider> libkeiser: heh, yes, my patience is limited when I'm debugging the AFS fileserver ;)
[05:30:33] <richlowe> it's better than having to go rebuild with -g, and hope you can reproduce, and... and ...
[05:30:40] <delewis> I use mdb over dbx when I'm debugging/writing SPARC assembly
[05:30:49] <richlowe> mdb *always* works (for certain values of works)
[05:30:56] <delewis> with gdb you have to set all these "displays" to display register contents
[05:30:57] <delewis> which is silly
[05:31:03] <delewis> mdb -- $r *poof*
[05:31:04] <gdamore> well, yes, if you don't have the ability to recompile your app with -g, then mdb might be a good choice.
[05:31:23] <gdamore> although nearly _all_ the mdb macros are targetted at the kernel
[05:31:26] <richlowe> the assumption that you can rebuild with -g, and reproduce is not necessarily accurate.
[05:31:29] * the-decider thinks back to the old DOS SW crack..er...hacking days and "Sourcer"
[05:31:30] <richlowe> :)
[05:31:32] <delewis> gdamore: not all
[05:31:39] <delewis> libumem, for example.
[05:31:43] <richlowe> delewis: "nearly all"
[05:31:44] <gdamore> (no, not all, but nearly so)
[05:31:46] <delewis> :-)
[05:31:47] <richlowe> the vast majority are...
[05:31:50] <delewis> yes
[05:31:56] <delewis> but I just had to cite a corner-case :-)
[05:32:04] <gdamore> if you can compile against libumem, you can _probably_ recompile with -g.
[05:32:13] <richlowe> gdamore: umem is preloadable.
[05:32:19] <gdamore> that said, libumem and mdb are probably mightily handy
[05:32:42] <delewis> gdamore: yes, you can just edit your LD_* variables and use libumem's memory functions rather than the general libc ones.
[05:32:49] <delewis> no need for a recompile
[05:32:50] <delewis> IIRC.
[05:32:51] <gdamore> again, i've never used it for userland stuff, but the kmem stuff rocks for finding memory leaks, etc.
[05:33:04] <richlowe> gdamore: the same stuff works against umem, that's part of the niftyness.
[05:33:05] <gdamore> i didn't realize you could LD_PRELOAD it.
[05:33:07] <delewis> the same works for the BSD memory management stuff.
[05:33:14] <richlowe> much of the ::findleaks implementation is actually shared.
[05:33:37] * gdamore tries not to spend very much time debugging userland programs. :-)
[05:34:04] * the-decider would hope the kernelland stuff just works so he never has to debug it :P
[05:34:13] * delewis hates writing XDM config files for new window managers.
[05:34:24] <delewis> one would think I've gotten used to it by now
[05:34:31] * gdamore throws xfce4 at delewis
[05:34:33] <richlowe> the-decider: it's worth doing at least once, just for the fun of it.
[05:34:33] <delewis> as I've written ones for Fluxbox and WindowMaker
[05:34:50] <delewis> gdamore: and you would still have to write a set of XDM startup scripts for it..
[05:34:51] * the-decider thinks people should be happy with a .xsession containing "twm &; xterm"
[05:35:11] <richlowe> now that's fun.
[05:35:18] <Rohinton> boyd more old DEC stuff "X"
[05:35:21] <delewis> last time I tried using .Xsession it no longer worked with dtlogin
[05:35:32] <delewis> or was no longer checked by default
[05:35:32] <gdamore> who needs a window manager?  just specify fully qualified -geometry...
[05:35:39] <richlowe> I see a followup to 6281048, but not the inital change.
[05:36:19] <boyd> richlowe: You're looking for the new change details?
[05:36:23] <richlowe> oh, it went back with the quagga stuff.
[05:36:48] <the-decider> xeyes -display gdamore.wherever.net:0.0 -geometry 1000x1000+0+0
[05:37:05] <boyd> richlowe: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2006110101/
[05:37:13] <richlowe> boyd: not what I mean. :)
[05:37:14] <gdamore> xkill ...
[05:37:22] <boyd> richlowe... sorry
[05:37:31] <the-decider> gdamore: that was, of course, in a while(1)
[05:37:47] * the-decider forgot the random colors.
[05:37:48] * gdamore unplugs NIC.
[05:38:05] * gdamore changes IP address.
[05:38:24] * gdamore sends ICMP storm at the-decider.
[05:38:48] * the-decider was surprised how long it took the world to enable the xauth stuff by "default"
[05:38:53] * gdamore remembers to configure Xauth properly this time.
[05:39:55] <gdamore> yeah, well UNIX/X/TCP/IP started in a different, friendlier, world
[05:40:31] <the-decider> IIRC, we were a mostly SGI shop at the time, and they were pretty big on just doing an "xhost +" in their default xsession
[05:40:32] <gdamore> i still remember when everyone thought the internet would implode when AOL hooked up to the 'net.
[05:40:43] <the-decider> gdamore: it did.
[05:41:00] <gdamore> you took my next line, dammit
[05:41:20] * the-decider deletes another spam.
[05:41:27] *** delewis has quit IRC
[05:41:48] * gdamore subscribes the-decider to another list...
[05:43:03] <the-decider> ah, cool.  Daily Show correctly refers to Ohio State as "THE Ohio State University".  They're overly picky about their article.
[05:44:06] <gdamore> well, i'm done for tonight.  'til tomorrow....
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[05:44:41] <delewis> heh
[05:44:45] <delewis> I love GDM, now.
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[05:44:55] <delewis> it's so much easier adding sessions.
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[05:48:49] <Rohinton> gdm?
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[05:51:46] <the-decider> technical explanation of e-voting (from the Daily Show)
[05:51:47] <the-decider> INPUT -> TOUCHSCREEN -> COMPUTER -> OUTPUT: THINGS HAPPEN
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[06:17:56] <icon> any nforce4 users here?
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[06:30:34] <boyd> Anyone got a suggestion for a RCS that uses minimal additional space in the working copy? Like I mean, not the whole repo, like in hg or double the size like in svn?
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[06:35:31] <dwc-> cvs? :P
[06:37:22] <sahafeez> strange question - i know that sun support linux on sparc in some form or another. anyone know if there is some linux like version of afbconfig
[06:47:45] <Error_404> i would be *very* suprised
[06:47:58] <Error_404> boyd: bzr ?
[06:48:22] * boyd will look at bzr...
[06:48:50] <boyd> I'm thinking of something to let me put my whole home dir under RCS...
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[06:56:07] <Error_404> fwiw, i hate bzr
[06:56:27] <Error_404> but i'm told the reasons i hate it were resolved as of late
[06:57:58] * boyd reboots to try a hack to get his mac to see this stooopid dell AIO
[06:59:59] <sahafeez> anyway to set the screen for second card in obp?
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[07:14:57] <boyd> Damn... didn't work
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[07:19:06] <Error_404> what didn't work?
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[07:21:11] <boyd> The hack I was trying to get this thing to at least be a scanner
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[07:46:30] <Error_404> okay, i'm obviously too tired to teach myself j2ee today
[07:47:00] <Error_404> I take solace in the fact i got BIND setup & designed a frontpage of sorts
[07:47:11] <Error_404> so today wasn't entirely useless
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[08:21:41] <yakov> hi
[08:25:23] <yakov> guys, i'v continued my transition, i'v already made 'reconfiguration' boot and made netwrok/physical start ethernet on rtls1.
[08:25:40] <yakov> but i have weird problem - svc can't start network/rpc/bind
[08:25:43] <yakov> error code - 1
[08:26:32] <yakov> i haven't found anything bout error codes in man pages.. :(
[08:27:32] <Error_404> checked sunsolve?
[08:27:55] <yakov> nop - no internet access at home
[08:28:01] * yakov going to check it now..
[08:32:28] <yakov> and another problem (consequence of rpcbind failure??) - i do can start Xsun & gdm with 'root' account and *can't* start Java session/CDE session with user account
[08:35:36] <Error_404> for that one, my guess is your user doesn't have write access to his own home directory
[08:40:12] <yakov> i'v check it - everything is 'ok
[08:40:17] <yakov> brb..
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[10:09:38] <coolvibe> okay, I just pulled of a hack so dirty... I remote rebooted a windows box using CMS software written in PHP that allows php code to be posted... fuck I feel dirty now
[10:09:51] <coolvibe> I have screenshots to prove it :)
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[10:12:52] * quasi stopped reading after windows box ;)
[10:20:12] <coolvibe> I needed to reboot that thing because it also runs Linux. I forgot to reboot it after some serious gaming :P
[10:22:32] <coolvibe> quasi: http://home.hackerheaven.org/~coolvibe/reboot.png <-- *cringe* :)
[10:25:30] <noyb> Gman: hello again
[10:26:23] <quasi> coolvibe: seems nice and secure ;)
[10:26:31] <asyd> coolvibe: ahah
[10:27:23] <noyb> Gman: (it's blah on the inside)  :)
[10:33:41] <raph_ael> hello
[10:34:50] <nightswim> home.hackerheaven.org links to rfc1918 stuff :)
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[10:38:00] <coolvibe> quasi: only administrators can sumbit php code, so it's okay
[10:38:03] <Gman> hey noyb ;)
[10:39:47] <Peanut> Good morning
[10:40:05] <coolvibe> nightswim: sssht! ;)
[10:42:18] <coolvibe> nightswim: I still have to make a virtualhost for that domain :)
[10:42:25] <coolvibe> <-- lazy
[10:42:54] <nightswim> hehe
[10:43:27] * noyb injects coolvibe with 2 Litres of Jolt
[10:43:53] <coolvibe> noyb: I have a very high caffeine tolerance, I'm a sysadmin
[10:44:42] * noyb gets a turkey baster and converted beer bong...
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[10:49:16] <Fish> hello
[10:49:24] <g4lt-U60> hackabong!
[10:53:28] * coolvibe raises his eyebrow and looks at noyb
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[11:27:28] <boyd> Anyone know what NIC the U45 has?
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[11:33:50] <g4lt-U60> boyd, a LE? ;P
[11:33:57] <boyd> :P
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[11:43:14] <PerterB> bge I think
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[11:43:40] <boyd> Really? Cool.
[11:45:04] <PerterB> http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/docs/pdf/819-1892-12.pdf seems to imply so
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[11:56:44] <kimc> helloo
[12:00:02] <quasi> too bad the u45 is so bloody expensive
[12:00:18] <boyd> Thanks PerterB
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[12:28:36] <kimc> anyone know where the opensol change commit logs are ?
[12:30:31] <PerterB> for ON they're linked from http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/
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[12:31:57] <kimc> very good thanks
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[13:02:29] <PerterB> hmmm... I have a cron job that rsyncs a bunch of database dumps from one server to another nightly, and emails it's stdout so I know it ran last night... yet somehow the directory tree on the target servers appears to be two weeks out of date
[13:02:32] <PerterB> most peculiar
[13:03:15] <PerterB> maybe it's because the clocks went back :)
[13:03:39] <boyd> hehe... That's quite a daylight savings you have there
[13:05:01] <PerterB> yup
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[13:15:40] * yakov is back.
[13:15:57] <yakov> Error_404, i found nothing suitable on sunsolve :(
[13:21:19] <quasi> yakov: can the use log in to CDE?
[13:25:59] <yakov> quasi, i can't log in to CDE even under root - it says it can't start DT messaging
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[13:28:17] <yakov> i'v checked /etc/hosts - it's correct
[13:28:31] <yakov> (but i have no /etc/src.sh - what does it mean..)
[13:28:47] <yakov> i do can log into Java Desktop under root only.
[13:30:28] <quasi> yakov: I had a similar problem - but that was fixed by giving my user the missing execute bit on /export/home ;)
[13:32:08] <quasi> yakov: easily tested by logging in as the user on the cmdline
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[13:46:27] <boyd> yakov: What version of solaris?
[13:47:24] <boyd> yakov: You might like to check /etc/inet/ipnodes
[13:48:07] <boyd> DT messaging errors are normally local hostname resolution related.
[13:48:10] * boyd goes to bed
[13:50:19] <yakov> thanks boyd , sol 10 x86..
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[13:50:47] <yakov> quasi, i think i'v missed that bit too :)
[13:50:56] <yakov> i have separate slice fort /export
[13:51:01] <yakov> err /export/home
[13:52:37] <yakov> darn, but i do can login from command line..
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[14:45:02] <yakov> cua!
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[15:03:44] <jteo> morn *
[15:04:08] <PerterB> 'owdo
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[15:48:54] <LeftWing> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/prod/solaris.10 -- Note: The requested item could not be found.
[15:48:57] <LeftWing> Wooo.
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[15:53:59] <quasi> nice
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[15:58:02] <quasi> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/titl has the contents from that and the links there seem to work
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[16:03:05] <LeftWing> Neat.
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[16:04:02] <PerterB> very neat
[16:04:46] <elflord> hello :)
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[16:05:23] <PerterB> hi
[16:05:33] <elflord> is it normal that i am not able to log in to the solaris management console when using a password longer than 8 characters?
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[16:05:45] <elflord> for root, forgot that, sry
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[16:32:50] <gdamore> hi *
[16:38:55] <Peanut> Hi gdamore
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[17:00:02] <Error_404> why the shit isn't bind leaving logfiles around?
[17:00:56] <Error_404> more to the point, why isn't it working
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[17:15:05] <delewis> Error_404: (1) you haven't told it to leave log files and (2) you haven't configured it to work properly.
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[17:26:58] <dwc-> Error_404: mine logs to syslog :)
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[17:29:06] <gdamore> OMG: we are still _sustaining_ /usr/ucb?!?
[17:29:21] <delewis> gdamore: apparently so
[17:29:25] <delewis> I just got the putback notice :-)
[17:29:30] <gdamore> me too.
[17:30:12] <gdamore> that bug is one that should have just been closed "will-not-fix" since it has always been busted, with a recommendation to use /usr/bin/df.
[17:31:07] <delewis> somewhere, some user probably still has /usr/ucb at the front of his or her PATH.
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[17:38:42] <elektronkind>  /usr/ucb/ps is the only handy thing there
[17:38:54] <tsoome> never needed:)
[17:39:47] <elektronkind> any non-redundant program un /usr/ucb should be removed to /usr/bin and /usr/ucb be made a symlink to /usr/bin
[17:39:50] <elektronkind> imo
[17:40:58] <elektronkind> and can /usr/ucb/tek and friends
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[17:51:06] <richlowe> elektronkind: not quite.
[17:51:13] <richlowe> elektronkind: you'll find life is pretty suck without a BSD-like install(1)
[17:51:18] <richlowe> s/suck/sucky/
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[17:55:45] <movement> we badly need ginstall in /usr/bin/.
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[17:55:56] <richlowe> it's even suckier when autoconf finds onbld's install first. :)
[17:56:29] <LeftWing> heh
[17:56:40] <LeftWing> I think I have INSTALL=ginstall in my profile. ;P
[17:57:12] <PerterB> /usr/ucb/whereis and /usr/ucb/vipw are also useful
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[18:02:52] <tmcmahon2> Random question to the esteemed masses on #opensolaris....
[18:02:52] <tmcmahon2> Is it me or are the various aliases that were meant to be discussions on various topics turning into support venues?
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[18:04:21] <coolvibe> PerterB: and whoami too
[18:05:11] * richlowe has been idly trying to figure out what would be needed to EOL or EOF /usr/ucb*
[18:05:18] <richlowe> beyond a miracle, obviously.
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[18:05:54] <LeftWing> tmcmahon2: osol-discuss certainly appears to be a Solaris 10 (and sometimes earlier) support forum from time to time. =P
[18:05:55] <tmcmahon2> rich: lots of notifications
[18:06:48] <tmcmahon2> leftwing: I'm cool with helping people but I'm afraid people that want to discuss opensolaris are going to get ticked having to read kernel crash dump support requests.
[18:06:48] <richlowe> Yeah, and moving of compatible bits.
[18:07:16] <LeftWing> tmcmahon2: I just ignore the boring threads these days. =P
[18:07:18] <richlowe> I've been wondering for a while how ofter the UCB/SunOS4 compat is used as SunOS4 compat, v. just being bsd-like enough to make people happy.
[18:07:23] <richlowe> 'often', too.
[18:07:30] <richlowe> I'll type better when it gets a little warmer ;)
[18:07:57] <richlowe> tmcmahon2: I think they are, but I'm not sure that's such a problem (yet).
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[18:08:33] <tmcmahon2> richlowe: the zfs and storage aliases are getting some of that traffic too. "How can I get patches for my storage array?"
[18:09:03] <LeftWing> lol
[18:09:10] <LeftWing> Pay for them, YOU CLOWNS.
[18:09:15] <richlowe> if I were in a better position to care about such things, I'd wonder what made our aliases more useful than the real support, I think. :)
[18:09:37] * LeftWing fabricates his own support from pure awesome.
[18:13:03] <tmcmahon2> heh...well....on that note. Thanks for the comments folks. Back to the grindstone
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[18:14:42] <richlowe> Hm, that probably wasn't the best of ways to reply, huh? :)
[18:16:26] <sickness> evening all
[18:18:53] <LeftWing> richlowe: heh.
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[18:46:05] <axisys> anyone here use mutt? i am trying to get the select bar `red' .. works fine on sol 8
[18:46:38] <axisys> something in my terminfo might be different between sol b48 and sol 8
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[18:47:04] <axisys> this is how i start my mutt
[18:47:05] <axisys> COLORFGBG="green;black" TERM=xterm-color mutt
[18:48:25] <axisys> using this same theme on both version of OS http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/dyXF9c42.html
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[18:48:59] <axisys> color indicator  brightwhite    red <-- does not work on solxpr b48.. works fine on sol 8
[18:49:37] <rockz> any StorEdge experts here?   Trying to find out how to make a stripe from 6 x mirrored raids
[18:49:54] <richlowe> Hm.
[18:50:15] <slowhog> something keeps my hardisk spinning, how do I figure out what is happening?
[18:50:17] <rockz> I'm accessing it via the telnet menu
[18:50:42] <richlowe> So tunnel reform flags between src/ and closed/
[18:50:48] <richlowe> (it seems, think IKE here, and read the heads-up)
[18:50:51] <richlowe> and stevel is in korea.
[18:51:59] <richlowe> movement: told you you should have made him figure this stuff out. :)
[18:52:17] <richlowe> though I guess it'll build, you're just screwed if you're making use of it.
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[18:55:46] <movement> heh
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[19:05:08] <richlowe> stevel: I just Cc'd you on a mail to Alan.
[19:05:14] <richlowe> stevel: in short, "Nah nah nah, told you so" ;)
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[19:05:25] <stevel> :-P thanks, i look forward to reading it
[19:06:20] <rockz> anybody here with StorEdge experience ?
[19:06:45] <Shadow^of^LUV> anyone configured Network simulator on solaris 10
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[19:45:13] <stevel> ugh. wireless access so slow
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[19:52:53] <richlowe> stevel: the last bit was snarky!
[19:52:58] <richlowe> stevel: need me to try harder next time? :)
[19:53:05] <stevel> please ;-)
[19:54:29] <stevel> whoa. gosling shaved
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[19:58:13] <sahafeez> good morning all.
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[19:59:17] <Shadow^of^LUV> anyone configured Network simulator on solaris 10
[20:00:23] <richlowe> stevel: I'm not getting response out of onnv-gate.
[20:00:43] <richlowe> stevel: since I can't reall bug you, who do I bug? :)
[20:00:52] <stevel> damnit
[20:01:11] <stevel> well that's fun
[20:01:19] <stevel> i can't get to any of our machines
[20:01:35] <richlowe> I can hit opensolaris.org (http), but I don't know how stuff is between machines.
[20:01:54] <richlowe> oh boy, it woke up
[20:02:07] <richlowe> it just took the better part of 10 minutes to do so.
[20:03:07] <richlowe> stevel: yeah, it responds, just not with it's usual alacrity.
[20:03:35] <stevel> i know they were planning network maintenance @ noon
[20:03:39] <stevel> but that's still an hour off
[20:04:50] <quasi> maybe they wanted to get started early and not waste the whole weekend at work picking up the bits ;)
[20:05:13] <stevel> maybe they figured they could take down the site and blame it on me while i'm away
[20:05:19] <sahafeez> who does network maintenance @ noon on a work day!?!?!
[20:06:33] <stevel> sorry, my mistake. not network maintenance... circuit maintenance.  apparently we're near the capacity of our circuit
[20:06:38] <quasi> isn't network service windows supposed to be the night between Tuesday and wedensday from 3 - 5 ;)
[20:07:19] <axisys> is oracle multi threaded app? i thought it is not
[20:07:55] <quasi> axisys: it is
[20:08:26] <lasseoe> heh
[20:08:37] <Error_404> hmm, this might be why bind fails for me: "Don't forget to update the serial number each time you change a zone file"
[20:08:40] <lasseoe> today's quality question :)
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[20:09:29] <axisys> quasi: always? my mysql class they said it is not
[20:09:44] <stevel> okay, i'm heading off!   see you guys later
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[20:09:49] <richlowe> later.
[20:10:52] <gdamore> holy crap.  i really need to stop sending e-mail. :-)
[20:11:05] <gdamore> (just got the desktop-discuss rollup)
[20:14:54] <richlowe> people need to be Told<TM> to put draft manpages somewhere we *all* can see them.
[20:14:57] * richlowe points at sharemgr
[20:15:15] <sahafeez> can you set the screen resolution in OBP on the second card in the system?
[20:15:30] <gdamore> sahafeez: not normally
[20:15:38] <gdamore> OBP only initializes the primary display.
[20:15:47] <sahafeez> gdamore: is there a hack to do it?
[20:15:55] <gdamore> not that i'm aware of.
[20:16:14] <gdamore> but you can set the resolution in X11 just fine.
[20:16:30] <gdamore> i.e. use fbconfig or somesuch to configure the resolution of your 2nd head
[20:16:51] <rockz> hmm....does this make sense...the Sun engineer told me that if I want to create a big mirrored volume of 12 disks, just select Raid1 and then select all 12 disks and it will make that a mirror with the capacity of 6 disks
[20:17:03] <sahafeez> gdamore thanks. trying to get to work under linux - i have one drive with solaris and one with gentoo.
[20:17:26] <gdamore> ah.  linux may require some different hacks.  i've not run linux/sparc in a _long_ time
[20:17:29] * Error_404 hangs head
[20:17:40] <Error_404> i'll never get BIND working :(
[20:17:57] <sahafeez> BIND is easy. what is wrong?
[20:18:00] <gdamore> rockz: that would be how most volume manager software works.
[20:18:06] <Error_404> sahafeez: it doesn't... work
[20:18:16] <sahafeez> can you be more specific?
[20:18:21] <sahafeez> does it start
[20:18:29] <Error_404> yes, and it doesn't spit up logfiles
[20:18:35] <Error_404> so i have no idea what's wrong
[20:18:46] <dwc-> what do you mean "it doesn't work"
[20:18:53] <dwc-> ask some smarter questions =p
[20:18:59] <Error_404> my domain name won't resolve
[20:19:00] <gdamore> richlowe: if man pages are being committed as PSARC case, then they should be in the mail file.  it would be nice if there was a way for external entities to add materials to PSARC case directories though.
[20:19:15] <Error_404> nslookup gives me SERVFAIL errors
[20:19:18] <dwc-> what is your domain name
[20:19:25] <Error_404> scribeon.com
[20:19:36] <dwc-> are the NS records correct in the registrar? are the appropriate glue records created?
[20:19:52] <Error_404> the NS records are correct w/ the registrar
[20:19:53] <sahafeez> did you start it in debug mode?
[20:19:55] <gdamore> if he points nslookup at his own private named, it shouldn't matter.
[20:20:03] <Error_404> as for the glue record, i haven't a clue
[20:20:08] <dwc-> ns1.scribeon.com has address 217.147.182.25
[20:20:12] <dwc-> is that correct?
[20:20:19] <Error_404> err.. yes
[20:20:54] * gdamore recommends Error_404 go install dbj's tinyDNS.
[20:21:35] <dwc-> http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=scribeon.com
[20:21:40] <gdamore> see http://tinydns.org/  these servers are much simpler to configure
[20:21:47] <richlowe> gdamore: the ARC stuff is annoying me in general.
[20:22:01] <gdamore> richlowe: so what else is new? :-)
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[20:22:17] <dwc-> you can use that to check progress from an external source
[20:22:17] <richlowe> gdamore: and the sharemgr case wasn't even close to public.
[20:22:21] <richlowe> gdamore: so we can't see them there anyway. :)
[20:22:30] <dwc-> so what happens if you start named in debug mode?
[20:22:40] <richlowe> I just get pissed when heads-up's try to link me to SWAN for information.
[20:22:43] <gdamore> well, so those man pages are "private" too.  kinda annoying
[20:22:43] <sahafeez> Error_404 start bind with named -d 99 -f
[20:23:02] <richlowe> doing that should be followed by a phone call explaining why you shouldn't have... :)
[20:23:11] <sahafeez> it makes it run in the foreground at a high debug level. then you can see what is wrong
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[20:23:54] <axisys> i am trying to follow the steps here http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0050/index.html
[20:23:59] <axisys> stuck on step 8
[20:24:03] <richlowe> a search for sharemgr on nfs-discuss shows nothing too, so screw it.
[20:24:06] <axisys> edit the opensolaris.sh script
[20:24:08] <alanc> but just look how much info you got about future hardware in the St Paul headsup - I was surprised they published that much
[20:24:16] <axisys> i dont see opensolaris.sh script any where
[20:25:30] <richlowe> axisys: $SRC/tools/env/
[20:25:38] <richlowe> read the general build instructions in the on community, too.
[20:26:05] <axisys> richlowe: hmm.
[20:27:31] <axisys> richlowe: i dont see this file on-src-DATE.tar.bz2
[20:28:06] <axisys> richlowe: its not here http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/
[20:28:09] <richlowe> It's only delivered for builds now.
[20:28:16] <richlowe> for nightly stuff, pull it out of mercurial.
[20:28:26] <richlowe> (was that never actually announced properly?)
[20:28:58] <axisys> richlowe: lost me .. mercurial?!
[20:29:03] <richlowe> I guess not, huh.
[20:29:32] <delewis> axisys: Mercurial is the SCM system that ON uses, nowadays.
[20:29:38] <richlowe> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/
[20:29:58] <richlowe> mercurial has been delivered in Nevada since somewhere around snv_46 or _47 (I didn't actually notice, so I'm not sure when it happened)
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[20:30:30] <delewis> I didn't start using it until the ON Mercurial repository went on-line.
[20:30:30] <axisys> richlowe: thnx
[20:30:51] <delewis> it's a lot better than waiting around for tarballs, though ;-)
[20:31:18] <richlowe> it's better in general.
[20:31:36] <richlowe> or will be, when the tools stuff is done, anyway.
[20:33:35] <axisys> richlowe: ok i am in this page http://opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/.. now what do i download to get the on-src ?
[20:34:27] <axisys> i guess this url missing steps http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0050/index.html ?!
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[20:35:01] <richlowe> I don't know, I haven't read dennis's stuff at all.
[20:35:16] <axisys> am i suppose to get this http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scmdownloads/mercurial-a27d90c9336e_20061028.tar.gz
[20:35:29] <richlowe> a sufficient mercurial is already in Nevada
[20:35:40] <richlowe> I'd thought there were better instructions posted somewhere in the tools community, but I'm guessing not.
[20:36:32] <richlowe> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=15748&tstart=0
[20:36:33] <axisys> richlowe: hmm.. where do i get the nevada from.. i just installed sol b48
[20:38:22] <Error_404> oh, w00t.
[20:38:25] <axisys> Rch Teer's steps does not say anything about this either http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/building_opensolaris/
[20:38:26] <Error_404> bind works now
[20:38:33] <axisys> Rich Teer that is
[20:38:45] <richlowe> that's because this wasn't the case when those documents were written.
[20:38:45] <axisys> (sorry)
[20:38:51] <richlowe> I would wager the devref doesn't say anything about them either.
[20:39:28] <axisys> richlowe: so the easiest way to intsall opensolaris .. is there one? the thread is?
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[20:40:05] <andersmo> Hm. Seems that SXCR b51 is available from sdlc, but not linked from osol.org yet. =)
[20:40:19] <richlowe> are we sure it's the respun 51?
[20:40:23] <richlowe> i've been holding off just in case.
[20:40:30] <andersmo> nope. Not sure at all. =)
[20:42:01] <richlowe> well, Karyn's note to -discuss, before it turned into an argument, suggested we wouldn't see 51 until the 6th or 7th.
[20:42:24] <richlowe> it in fact stated explicitly it wouldn't be there today, as it is ;)
[20:42:55] <richlowe> axisys: get source via mercurial, mercurial bundle, or source tarball of build snapshot, follow instructions in devref.
[20:43:08] <richlowe> ... there's probably people better at instructions-type stuff than me, too. :)
[20:43:36] <axisys> instructions-type? is it a mailing list?
[20:43:38] <dwc-> Error_404: what was wrong?
[20:43:50] <dwc-> and did you get it logging properly?
[20:43:59] <richlowe> No, just a phrase.
[20:44:09] <Error_404> bad MX record took all of bind down with it, and yes
[20:45:00] <axisys> richlowe: :-)
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[20:50:12] <dwc-> well, you said bind was running
[20:50:25] <dwc-> a bad mx record at the most, should prevent that zone from loading
[20:50:31] <dwc-> but all your other zones, and the server should be up
[20:55:04] <Error_404> yeah, the zone wasn't loading
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[20:55:11] <Error_404> which was the problem to begin with
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[21:11:21] <sahafeez> so the debug helped?
[21:15:06] <Error_404> i never ran debug
[21:15:37] <Error_404> i just found an example of setting up logging
[21:21:49] <sahafeez> and i went to all the trouble of remembering the cmd. you suck ;)
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[21:28:33] <axisys> richlowe: hg clone does not work.. remote: Permission denied (gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,publickey,keyboard-interactive)
[21:28:44] <axisys> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
[21:29:17] <axisys> seems like i am either out of luck or impatient :P
[21:29:50] <richlowe> that sounds like the automount snafu.
[21:30:00] <richlowe> but it's been viciously slow all morning, so it maybe something else.
[21:30:17] <axisys> richlowe: ok.. i will then
[21:30:36] <richlowe> dduvall: do you know who to poke regarding the mercurial setup, now stevel is on his travels?
[21:30:57] <dduvall> 'Fraid not.  I might start with sch, though, see what he knows.
[21:31:56] <axisys> richlowe: how do I pull it from here http://hg.intevation.org/mirrors/opensolaris.org/onnv-gate/ ?
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[21:32:35] <andersmo> Hm. Anyone else having problems reaching the opensolaris.org website? My traceroute (from norway) stops after border2.ge2-1-bbnet2.sfo002.pnap.net
[21:33:27] <richlowe> axisys: yeah, it's not just you.
[21:33:38] <axisys> hg clone ssh://anon at hg dot intevation.org/mirrors/opensolaris.org/onnv-gate asks for password
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[21:35:01] <sahafeez> looks down to me
[21:35:13] <richlowe> sahafeez: which?
[21:35:24] <sahafeez> opensolaris
[21:37:18] <axisys> sahafeez: not responding for me either
[21:37:50] <sahafeez> well then netcraft confirms it - opensolaris is dead ;)
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[21:39:23] <axisys> i guess i am not the only impatient person here :P
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[21:39:54] <richlowe> axisys: it drags, then it either works, or hands you the permission error.
[21:40:01] <richlowe> I mailed tools-discuss about it just now.
[21:40:15] <richlowe> I mentioned the slowness bit to stevel too, but he couldn't even reach the machines.
[21:40:28] <richlowe> (though since he was in an airport at the time, it's not like I was expecting a fix...)
[21:40:30] <axisys> richlowe: have u treid this? hg clone ssh://anon at hg dot intevation.org/mirrors/opensolaris.org/onnv-gate
[21:40:35] <richlowe> nope
[21:40:51] <richlowe> if the onnv-gate on opensolaris.org is screwing up, the mirror won't have anything I don't already have.
[21:40:55] <axisys> it prompts for a password.. i could try this if i knew what that is
[21:41:06] <richlowe> since anything that may have been putback since it went screwy will not have hit opensolaris.org, and thus not been mirrored.
[21:41:12] <axisys> while the main site is slow i could give it a shot
[21:41:29] <axisys> (if i knew the password)
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[21:42:53] <adp> what is up with www.opensolaris.org? :-S
[21:43:10] <richlowe> well, that answers a bunch, huh?
[21:43:30] <sickness> :/
[21:44:30] <richlowe> looks like everything is down.
[21:44:57] <adp> oh, now it's back
[21:46:13] <andersmo> OK, my traceroute (mtr) still stops after the pnap host I mentioned earlier. Figure there's a bl!!dy firewall somewhere in between then. =)
[21:46:57] <elektronkind> hmm
[21:47:15] <elektronkind> why is the user_attr file in /etc and not /etc/security ?
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[21:53:21] <Gman> hey guys
[21:53:59] <richlowe> mornin' Gman.
[21:55:48] <sahafeez> good afternoon
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[22:23:56] <quasi> hmmmmm, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/sun_schwartz_markoff/
[22:30:14] <richlowe> I like the acronym WTDC a whole lot. :)
[22:31:45] <sahafeez> White Trash Data Centers - love it!
[22:34:46] <Gman>  /topic opensolaris.org svn/hg in maint window - back up soon | Latest builds: SXCR: 50, ON build: 51, ON nightly: 20061030
[22:35:03] <Gman> looks like the svn stuff is up now
[22:35:03] <sahafeez> so Gman, drag and drop ;)
[22:35:08] <Gman> heh
[22:35:38] <sahafeez> i am waiting to install when you give me the word - i have linux on my U80 now. the gods are not happy.
[22:36:02] <Gman> heh
[22:36:23] <richlowe> The mercurial gate won't see putbacks that happened in the brokenness window until the next putback following it, btw.
[22:36:28] <richlowe> though it appears to respond more happily now.
[22:36:43] <sahafeez> and i cannot seem to get the afb cards to be in the same res under xorg under linux. no afbconfig ;)
[22:44:37] * delewis wishes there was a LiveCD with VTS installed
[22:44:46] <delewis> that would make life so much easier.
[22:45:15] * delewis just got a panic on his Ultra 2 while doing a Jumpstart
[22:45:18] <pixie_> that would be nice
[22:45:33] <pixie_> i wish vts ran properly on my cheapo generic amd too :)
[22:51:41] <delewis> pixie_: why does VTS not work properly on generic AMD hardware?
[22:52:01] <quasi> they were handing out live cds at NL-OSUG with b49
[22:52:13] <delewis> quasi: with VTS installed?
[22:52:34] <quasi> delewis: I haven't checked
[22:52:45] <delewis> well, that's the whole point. :-)
[22:52:46] <quasi> delewis: but should be easy to add
[22:52:58] <delewis> quasi: I'm not sure if it's re-distributable.
[22:53:03] <delewis> in fact, I highly doubt it.
[22:53:10] <quasi> probably not
[22:54:09] <delewis> and even so, it would need to be a SPARC LiveCD to be useful to me :-)
[22:55:07] <quasi> not very likely
[22:56:48] <delewis> hmm, I really hope one of these DIMMs aren't bad.
[22:58:04] <richlowe> take martux, and drop it on there for your own use. :)
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[23:07:04] <axisys> i did a dd image now booting from new disk in grub complains about root disk.. i changed it like this http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/EXf9ME73.html
[23:07:09] <axisys> now how do i save it
[23:07:14] <axisys> did not play w/ grub much
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[23:08:26] <axisys> i hit `b' for boot and that worked..
[23:09:31] <axisys> how do save it? where is the grub menu file?
[23:09:58] <axisys> found it /boot/grub/menu.lst correct?
[23:10:39] <sommerfeld> yes
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[23:13:31] <axisys> sommerfeld: thnx
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[23:41:03] <axisys> is there a xls to text or html converter out there?
[23:41:37] <asyd> from what ?
[23:42:51] <dwc-> xls
[23:43:04] <dwc-> if you have excel it makes it quite easy
[23:43:32] <oxygene> axisys: http://www.45.free.net/~vitus/software/catdoc/
[23:43:38] <asyd> ah sorry, misunderstand with xlst :p
[23:43:41] <dwc-> if you have perl you can try Spreadsheet::ParseExcel
[23:43:54] <dwc-> which I've used with simple data with good results
[23:44:16] <oxygene> asyd: xsl[t]
[23:45:48] <quasi> oxygene: not xls[t] ;)
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[23:46:33] <irc00123> nexenta is worth trying ?
[23:48:25] <irc00123> im running brandz build 35 so it would better switch to nexenta ?
[23:48:51] <delewis> why don't you give it a try, yourself?
[23:48:58] <delewis> None of us are aware of what you like.
[23:50:46] <oxygene> hmm.. anybody tried xdelta between releases of sxcr dvd images? could reduce download sizes a lot
[23:51:42] <irc00123> nexenta offers advantages vs solaris express ? anyone has used nexenta to give a review on that?
[23:52:00] <Gman> different package management system
[23:52:01] <wilbury> irc00123: nexenta has very decent packaging system
[23:52:06] <Gman> apt/dpkg
[23:52:11] <Gman> gnu userspace
[23:52:22] <irc00123> bus has no manpages ?
[23:52:24] <wilbury> <-- fixing clamav and libmilter-dev packages right now
[23:52:27] <Gman> ie. leverages most of what's currently available in ubuntu
[23:52:35] <Gman> with a solaris kernel
[23:54:01] <irc00123> but it comes with dbx , adb , and the man pages with that software ?
[23:55:50] <delewis> dbx? no.
[23:55:54] <delewis> that's part of Sun Studio
[23:56:03] <delewis> as for mdb and adb, I'm not sure.
[23:56:36] <irc00123> but i can copy the man pages from other solaris station to read them i nexenta right ?
[23:57:05] <wilbury> right
[23:57:06] <delewis> I don't see any reason why not
[23:57:09] <delewis> troff is troff is troff.
[23:57:52] <delewis> ugh.
[23:57:58] <delewis> 30KB/s from SDLC is painful.
[23:58:09] <delewis> and it's certainly not on my side.
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