[00:00:00] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris
[00:00:05] <hile_> bwahaha alan
[00:04:50] <Gman> stevel, is there any sort of webapp roadmap?
[00:05:05] <richlowe> Hm, did the webapp project ever get enough +1's?
[00:05:06] <Gman> or infrastructure roadmap?
[00:05:09] * richlowe had thought it had
[00:05:11] <Gman> yeah
[00:05:12] <stevel> gman: yeah - it's scattered haphazardly through the brains of garypen, sch and myself
[00:05:19] <Gman> heh, ok
[00:05:23] <stevel> should it be written down?  yes.
[00:05:32] <stevel> we're actually putting together a task list/roadmap now
[00:05:43] <stevel> garypen and i are bogged down with work though, so it's taking us a while
[00:05:45] <Gman> just wondering when we'll likely see collaborative editing on the website that doesn't involve you being a leader
[00:05:54] <Gman> no worries dude, do what you can, when you can
[00:06:01] <Gman> this stuff isn't urgent, more of a curiosity
[00:06:40] <Tpenta> stevel is tonic-push up?
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[00:07:29] <Gman> stevel is my personal hero
[00:07:32] <Tpenta> dont worry. i got bitten by secure by default.... sftp works
[00:07:37] <stevel> tpenta: yeah
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[00:08:27] <Tpenta> x86 build, sparc shouldnt be much longer
[00:12:23] <_william_> gn
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[00:13:26] <Gman> dear staroffice, you're sucking my will to live.
[00:14:15] <hile_> so use vi and {n|t}roff like i do ;)
[00:14:30] <Gman> ;)
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[00:15:29] <boyd> Gman, it looks like you're trying to write a letter. Would you like me to help you?
[00:15:57] <Gman> installing staroffice 8 right now
[00:16:04] <Doc> hrmm
[00:16:08] <Tpenta> memtest has become open has it steve?
[00:16:18] * boyd thinks gman didn't get his clippy joke
[00:17:13] <Tpenta> stevel?
[00:17:51] <Gman> boyd, i did
[00:18:04] <Gman> bash-3.00$ file so-8-m124-x86.sh
[00:18:05] <Gman> so-8-m124-x86.sh:       executable shell script
[00:18:06] <boyd> Phew.. I can go on living :)
[00:18:09] <Gman> freakin evil.
[00:18:20] <Gman> that's the installer ;)
[00:18:23] <boyd> Gman: You're right... it should be a .ksh98 :)
[00:18:38] <Gman> heh, 2 jokes in the space of 3 minutes
[00:18:41] <Gman> you're doing well ;)
[00:18:53] <boyd> And I haven't finished my coffee yet :)
[00:19:13] * boyd installs FF2.0 release on his mac
[00:19:24] <hile_> released now, no longer a beta?
[00:19:30] <boyd> Yep
[00:19:40] <hile_> cool.
[00:19:45] <hile_> i've got one of the RCs on there.
[00:20:11] <boyd> I have to upgrade tab mix plus to a beta though. I can't live without that extension
[00:25:06] <coffman> oh shit
[00:25:14] <coffman> i need to wipe this profile
[00:25:36] <coffman> gnar this will be work, shity major releases
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[00:38:17] <Doc> any sun ppl know the name of the Sun2Sun phone number thingy_
[00:38:23] <Doc> ?  even
[00:38:40] <boyd> Hey, Doc . I don't. But then I don't qualify for your question
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[00:39:09] <Doc> ahh..  sun finder
[00:41:29] <hile_> how goes, Doc?
[00:43:46] <Doc> hile: excellent!  Finished the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu yesterday :)
[00:44:02] <boyd> Cool
[00:44:34] <hile_> cool.
[00:44:38] <hile_> when are you in NYC?
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[00:46:50] <Doc> from the 30th
[00:46:59] <hile_> ah cool.
[00:47:22] <hile_> if you want ot have fun, head down ot Christopher street on the 31st :)
[00:47:44] 
[00:48:05] <hile_> scary shit
[00:48:18] <hile_> the hallowe'en parade in Greenwich Village
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[00:52:36] 
[00:52:59] <Doc> i looked around for the best place to be in the US on the 31st, and tat won out :)
[00:54:18] <hile_> haha
[00:54:23] <hile_> cool.
[00:54:31] <hile_> when do you leave?
[00:55:43] <hile_> i have to work on the 30th and have stuff going on around here on the 31st; could head up on the 1st if you're going to be around and want ot grab a drink
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[01:50:38] <Gman> ooh, proposed pteam call time change, might even encourage me to dial into that every so often
[01:52:24] <jamesd> wow.. i know woman go to the bathroom in groups of 2 or 3.. but a whole team of sun engineers to go "p" is just a bit strange  ;-p
[01:53:17] <Gman> ;)
[01:54:12] <alanc_work> just be glad you didn't mention the c-team...
[01:57:34] <jamesd> i thought they scheduled meeting at the same.. time their all voyuers on the "c" team
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[02:04:03] <Tpenta> 20061023-nd encumbered bins are uploaded
[02:08:51] <Gman> 'I'm not so much trying to argue about which is "right" or "wrong".
[02:08:52] <Gman> I'm mostly pointing out that this is different, and to better support
[02:08:52] <Gman> our people and our processes it would be good if there were fewer
[02:08:52] <Gman> differences.'
[02:09:13] <Gman> [teamware vs mecurial]
[02:09:38] <Gman> kinda the wrong attitude
[02:10:26] <richlowe> not necessarily.
[02:10:44] <richlowe> as long as "fewer" doesn't decrease to "No"
[02:11:01] <richlowe> it's actually the "our" that bugs me.
[02:11:06] <richlowe> especially since I don't know who "our" is, there.
[02:11:09] <Gman> there's an assuption the existing processes would be the same
[02:11:18] <richlowe> again, I don't know who "our" is.
[02:11:19] <richlowe> :)
[02:11:24] <richlowe> for all I know, it might be.
[02:11:44] * myrkraverk is back - with a working (aparently) solaris workstation (yay)
[02:11:48] <delewis> I'm guessing "our" refers to internal Sun employees.
[02:11:53] <delewis> very irritating.
[02:11:59] <richlowe> I think it probably refers to a specific group.
[02:12:04] <myrkraverk> now for the annoying noob questions (please bear with me)
[02:12:11] <delewis> richlowe: which still conists of internal, Sun employees.
[02:12:27] <delewis> regardless, it's still a very closed-minded perspective on what is 'right'
[02:12:38] <myrkraverk> 1: how do I make a luser for myself?
[02:12:48] <delewis> myrkraverk: groupadd/useradd
[02:12:50] <Gman> 1: useradd
[02:12:59] <myrkraverk> 2: how do I make sure my ethernet card is working?
[02:13:05] <delewis> myrkraverk: ping
[02:13:16] <Gman> ifconfig name plumb
[02:13:35] <myrkraverk> ok, now 0: how do I start a shell in CDE?
[02:13:40] <richlowe> "Can we make mercurial work just how *WE* want it" is wrong thinking.
[02:13:58] <richlowe> making it more palettable for everyone, however, is not.
[02:14:02] <delewis> richlowe: precisely.
[02:14:21] <richlowe> and if it motivates someone other than me to make the keyword stuff work properly, more power to it ;)
[02:14:28] <delewis> and ON is larget than just Sun now, so Mercurial should work as to how everyone sees fit, not just internal Sun employees.
[02:14:34] <delewis> s/larget/larger/
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[02:15:23] <kimc> dclarke: are you around ?
[02:15:28] <stevel> richlowe: "our" referred to the Java group Bill Shannon is part of
[02:15:57] <stevel> delewis: +1
[02:16:06] <Gman> java is doomed with that attitude then ;)
[02:16:36] <richlowe> stevel: I'm about to respond tetchily.
[02:16:41] <richlowe> not you, not him ;)
[02:16:45] <richlowe> s/not/to/
[02:16:46] <stevel> richlowe: good :-)
[02:16:49] <Gman> seriously, it's a fricken SCM
[02:16:55] <Gman> adapt
[02:17:12] <dclarke> I return
[02:17:24] <dclarke> my hatred for RHEL4 has not gone away
[02:17:30] <delewis> dclarke: :-)
[02:17:35] <dclarke> probably I'm just new to it
[02:17:36] * delewis hands dclarke a Solaris 10 media kit
[02:17:37] <Tpenta> I enter (well that's what my kbd says)
[02:17:46] <dclarke> g'day
[02:18:13] <dclarke> would someone, please, for the love of God and all that is right, walk over to the VMware offices and tell them to release a kit for Solaris 10 ?
[02:18:24] <richlowe> stevel: put that in your pipe and smoke it ;)
[02:18:40] <delewis> dclarke: I last heard they were working on Solaris host support almost 2 years ago..
[02:18:44] <delewis> and we still haven't seen anything
[02:18:53] <dclarke> its driving me nuts
[02:19:06] * delewis recalls what he said when everyone was jumping up and down about Solaris client support, that it wouldn't be too far away before host support was available.
[02:19:07] <dclarke> by the time they release something .. anything .. qemu will run at native speeds
[02:19:19] <delewis> I told them they were silly to think that
[02:19:31] <delewis> because at the time, VMware had been "working" on Solaris host support for a year
[02:19:35] <delewis> and it's now two..
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[02:20:02] <dclarke> yep .. the "any time real soon" syndrome
[02:20:21] <dclarke> in the mean time .. anyone here understand RHEL4 /etc/fstab entries ?
[02:20:27] <jamesd> delewis, apparently they don't have enough people on board... i know they had early access to the source code...
[02:20:30] <elektronkind> they're going to package it with duke nukem 3d
[02:20:33] <dclarke> I mean really .. I should need to stoop to this
[02:20:48] <delewis> jamesd: yeah, but as OpenSolaris/Solaris adoption increaes, VMware will be forced to address this
[02:20:51] <delewis> as will Adobe
[02:21:04] <delewis> and many others that are holding up on backing OpenSolaris/Solaris with their applications.
[02:21:05] <dclarke> Adobe .. those dorks
[02:21:13] <dclarke> IBM and Lotus Notes
[02:21:18] <dclarke> those dorks too
[02:21:23] <delewis> well, IBM has at least gotten somewhat onboard with DB2
[02:21:26] <delewis> and TSM
[02:21:34] <delewis> I think the Lotus problem is a lack of customer adoption
[02:21:35] <dclarke> in the great day of the reaper they will be first up againt the wall
[02:21:42] <delewis> or rather, customer orphaning.
[02:21:46] <elektronkind> Im waiting for the scientific apps to catch up to x86... such as MATLAB
[02:21:47] * Gman can't wait to see how they do with their court case against amazon
[02:21:53] <dclarke> well .. I blame Sun for that
[02:22:00] <delewis> elektronkind: Mathematica has been on board for a long time
[02:22:06] <myrkraverk> Oct 25 00:17:33 king: e1000g: WARNING: pci8086,1000 - e1000g[0] : could not identify hardware <---- do any of you have an idea how I can deal with that?
[02:22:10] <dclarke> yep .. I have Mathematica here
[02:22:13] <delewis> Mathematica 5.2 was released *right* after FCS was released
[02:22:16] <delewis> and supported AMD64
[02:22:23] * delewis has a copy installed :-)
[02:22:27] <delewis> on both SPARC and AMD64
[02:22:28] <elektronkind> delewis: I know... wolfram has been good about that, but I also need Mathwork's MATLAB
[02:22:34] <dclarke> its the cooled super geek software
[02:22:41] <delewis> elektronkind: I have SPARC media :-)
[02:22:44] <elektronkind> they have sparc, just no x86
[02:22:49] <delewis> but yes, I would like an AMD64 Matlab port, too.
[02:23:01] <delewis> in the meantime, use Octave *cough* :-)
[02:23:14] <delewis> dclarke: yes, Sun really hurt the Solaris/x86 image when they dropped x86 support.
[02:23:15] <elektronkind> yeah, our math dept would love that
[02:23:31] <delewis> our Math department doesn't even know what a computer is.
[02:23:40] <elektronkind> matlab and spartan are on my wishlists
[02:24:05] <elektronkind> if I can get those two, I can kiss linux clusters good-bye and run all solaris
[02:24:22] <delewis> and I think portability is still very foreign to vendors. They like to associate a single operating system with a single platform.
[02:24:26] <dclarke> elektronkind: what do you need ?
[02:24:34] <delewis> in their minds, you can't associate an operating system with multiple architectures.
[02:24:59] <dclarke> Windows NT on DEC Alpha .. that was freaky
[02:25:00] <delewis> you do Linux on PowerPC/x86, and Solaris/SPARC, and that's the way things are.
[02:25:11] <delewis> it's blaspheme to think Solaris can run on x86..
[02:25:16] <dclarke> yep .. we don't change things 'round here
[02:25:29] * dclarke rocks in his rocking chair
[02:25:42] <myrkraverk> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6431317
[02:26:19] <myrkraverk> ^^^^ can someone tell me what was done to fix that bug - I seem to have very similar issue with 8086,1000
[02:26:34] <elektronkind> dclarke: aside from compiled apps such as namd/charm++ and blast, that linux/ppc cluster of ours is rather useless. many of our other research profs use off-the-shelf stuff like matlab, mathematica, and spartan. Nothing commercial runs on linux/ppc.
[02:27:05] <elektronkind> hence why it sits there idle. it's good at blinking its lights and sucking power, and not much more
[02:27:36] <dclarke> elektronkind: yes .. I think I already spoke with your department heads
[02:27:48] <dclarke> elektronkind: they freaked at the idea of Solaris
[02:28:10] <dclarke> elektronkind: you refer to the bloody great huge PPC cluster server you have there right ?
[02:28:14] <delewis> our department head is firmly entrechened in Linux crud.
[02:28:23] <elektronkind> freaked as in good freak like "yeah baby, lets get it on" or freaked as in "no way dude"
[02:28:31] <myrkraverk> should I file such a bug for my card: 8086,1000 ?
[02:28:34] <dclarke> as in "no way dude"
[02:28:35] <elektronkind> dclarke: yeah, bluegrit
[02:28:36] <delewis> the last time he worked with Solaris was when he worked at Oracle, and they were creating demo units running Solaris 8...
[02:28:42] <delewis> running on x86
[02:28:51] <elektronkind> dclarke: their loss.
[02:28:52] <dclarke> as in .. damn .. we want to do that too but .. gee .. politics ya know ?
[02:29:29] <Gman> myrkraverk, i'll msg you the details
[02:30:02] <myrkraverk> Gman: thanks
[02:30:26] <elektronkind> yeah, the politics are stupid surrounding it. that cluster came as a gift from IBM because the president of the uni is supposedly "good friends" with some IBM exec. IBM feeds us second-rate bullshit for free, but the president thinks it's great and doesn't want to upset his thing
[02:30:51] <delewis> and I bet IBM isn't even feeding you their good stuff, like pSeries/AIX.
[02:31:32] <elektronkind> that's why our CIO demanded that we run IBM p550 AIX servers for our new peoplesuck project... because the "core" of it had to run on IBM kit to make IBM happy.
[02:31:39] <dclarke> there is some real killer IBM Power chip in the future
[02:31:54] <delewis> well, at least you're getting the good IBM stuff.
[02:32:02] <dclarke> however .. Sun already has the UltraSparc T1 in production and
[02:32:06] <delewis> usually, IBM likes to push Linux into educational institutions.
[02:32:08] <elektronkind> this I think is pretty questionable stuff for a public state university to do
[02:32:11] <dclarke> a new rev in the future with FPU I am sure
[02:32:13] <delewis> and leave the good stuff for actual, paying customers.
[02:33:01] <elektronkind> I nearly crapped my drawers when I saw the support and license costs for just the p550 hardware
[02:33:13] <delewis> p550 is cheap compared to the rest :-)
[02:33:34] <delewis> at the hospital we spent $250k on two pSeries systems alone with just hardware/installation costs.
[02:33:43] <delewis> those were p610s, IIRC.
[02:33:49] <elektronkind> "oh, so you got 2 CPUs in your p550. Be sure to buy A LICENSE FOR THEM if you want to be able to actually use them"
[02:34:10] <delewis> elektronkind: it's worse than that -- you have to buy a license (or an HMC) to do DLPARS.
[02:34:19] <delewis> which is like one of the key functionalities of all the pSeries hardware.
[02:34:42] <delewis> on Sun, only a certain number of systems actually support domains, so throwing out the extra cash for domain licensing isn't that bad.
[02:34:53] <delewis> (and the systems that support domains tend to be mid-range systems)
[02:34:58] <elektronkind> yeah, we have a old power4 based server (two of them actually) that have LPARs... I think they're 630's or something like that.
[02:35:01] <delewis> *all* pSeries systems support DLPARS (even the cheap ones)
[02:35:31] <delewis> so, when you purchase your $3,000 system, you've got to fork up another $2-$3k for an HMC or license.
[02:35:55] <elektronkind> I'm curious how the T1 and galaxy series M2 machines with "LDOMs" will fare
[02:36:02] <elektronkind> delewis: that's disgusting
[02:36:16] <delewis> elektronkind: it's coercion
[02:36:25] <delewis> coercion to buy the HMC (the actual license is a rip-off)
[02:36:51] <delewis> and then for corporations that buy the HMC, IBM wants you send those people off to classes (and of course, the classes are roughly about $10k)
[02:36:52] <twincest> is lpar a hardware feature?
[02:36:54] <elektronkind> maybe I'm in the wrong business
[02:36:57] <delewis> twincest: yes
[02:37:06] <elektronkind> I need to be a IBM reseller
[02:37:16] <delewis> elektronkind: they make quite a bit of profit.
[02:37:29] <delewis> our reseller at the hospital made a killing off of installation/support fees.
[02:38:00] <delewis> (and most of them like to bad-mouth Solaris and Sun hardware :-)
[02:38:37] <elektronkind> no wonder why... they're too rich for such poo poo drivel
[02:38:44] <delewis> the particular employee of this particular reseller I talked to on an almost daily basis always liked to jibe Solaris (even though, he last used Solaris on a SPARCstation -- probably 2.5)
[02:38:49] <dclarke> imagine .. a free OS
[02:38:53] <dclarke> thats just nuts
[02:39:08] <delewis> dclarke: it's a commonality among a lot of vendors
[02:39:15] <delewis> especially, in the healthcare field, which is largely IBM-dominated.
[02:39:30] <delewis> I heard similar stuff from GE vendors
[02:40:01] <delewis> of course, I always question whether vendors are really computing enthusiasts, and I always come to the conclusion they're in it for the money.
[02:40:25] <delewis> and to them it's not really about technological superiority, but making a quick buck from their customers.
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[02:40:46] <delewis> (with as little brain-power as possible)
[02:40:56] <delewis> otherwise, they'd see Solaris could accomplish the same as much as AIX or Linux :-)
[02:44:50] <elektronkind> it's probably just a day jobto those people
[02:45:03] <delewis> elektronkind: that's what I meant by "they're in it for the money"
[02:45:09] <myrkraverk> sorry, what is solaris for "lspci" ?
[02:45:14] <solaris-user> prtconf
[02:45:22] <elektronkind> "I know how to IM and email, so I'll be a computer person"
[02:45:36] <richlowe> prtconf -v, or /usr/X11/bin/scanpci, if you're on x86.
[02:46:28] <elektronkind> too bad they just don't stick to folding shirts at GAP
[02:47:50] <myrkraverk> can I somewhere see if I'm running me cpus in 32 or 64 bit mode? (x86)
[02:48:12] <delewis> myrkraverk: isainfo -k
[02:49:01] <myrkraverk> it says amd64 - I guess that means 64 bit (even though I'm using intel cpus) :)
[02:49:10] <dwc-> can't the cpu switch between 32 and 64?
[02:49:31] <myrkraverk> I'm not sure - I believe it can boot in one or the other
[02:49:42] <delewis> AMD64 has various models for that
[02:50:03] <delewis> with the memory models, a 64-bit application doesn't always have to address a full 64-bit memory space
[02:50:41] <delewis> (which is partially why AMD64 doesn't experience performance degradation when running in 64-bit mode, like some 64-bit processors, like SPARC do)
[02:52:26] <delewis> I say partially, because extra registers in 64-bit mode helps, too.
[02:52:28] <stevel> time for me to split. adios
[02:52:33] <solaris-user> myrkraverk : there is only one unix image for x64
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[02:53:01] <myrkraverk> solaris-user: erm?
[02:53:12] <myrkraverk> . o O (perhaps I'm too sleepy)
[02:54:01] <solaris-user> myrkraverk : about called your processor AMD ( there is only one kernel image ( called unix ) on solaris/opensolaris ( /platform/i86pc/Kernel/amd64/unix )
[02:54:10] <solaris-user> I guess you are using this image
[02:54:46] <myrkraverk> solaris-user: ah, k
[02:55:12] <solaris-user> if your in 64mode, you need use this image
[02:55:13] <solaris-user> :)
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[02:55:20] <myrkraverk> ok ;)
[02:55:39] <movement> richlowe: it arrived, 6485906
[02:56:05] <richlowe> movement: thanks.
[02:58:06] <Gman> what do you mean you don't want to work on it?
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[02:58:43] <richlowe> I mean I don't want to lead myself down a different but very similar alley, and confuse the hell out of myself.
[02:58:47] <richlowe> at this specific moment in time.
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[03:01:02] <astinus> I've got a ZFS pool which shows up as faulted.  I took the server offline, and needed to re-attach two of the drives (out of three) to a different controller. How can I instruct ZFS that the drives are now at c6d0 instead of c1t3d0?
[03:01:35] <elektronkind> zfs should find them by itself
[03:01:42] <astinus> it didnt :P
[03:01:42] <elektronkind> zpool import <pool name>
[03:01:56] <elektronkind> have you tried a manual import?
[03:02:09] <astinus> sorry, could you explain?
[03:02:26] <movement> richlowe: hey, I recognise that stack trace
[03:02:34] <elektronkind> astinus: I assume that your zpool isn't showing up now in a 'zpool status' output, right?
[03:02:35] <movement> richlowe: looks enormously like a bug I fixed a long time ago
[03:02:46] <astinus> elektronkind: it is, yes
[03:02:54] <astinus>   pool: helios
[03:02:55] <astinus>  state: FAULTED
[03:02:55] <astinus> status: One or more devices could not be opened.  There are insufficient
[03:02:55] <astinus>         replicas for the pool to continue functioning.
[03:03:27] <astinus> interestingly enough, it has picked up *some* of the changes:
[03:03:29] <astinus>           c1t0d0    UNAVAIL      0     0     0  cannot open
[03:03:29] <astinus>           c1t0d0    ONLINE       0     0     0
[03:03:29] <astinus>           c1t3d0    UNAVAIL      0     0     0  cannot open
[03:03:42] <astinus> the drive which used to be at c1t0d4 is now at c1t0d0
[03:03:56] <astinus> c1t0d0 is now c6d0, c1t3d0 is now c5d0
[03:04:17] <elektronkind> astinus: hmm. try exporting the pool (zpool export helios) and then re-importing it (zpool import helios)
[03:04:48] <elektronkind> it should have picked up on the device changes. these are the same disks you're using, just on different controllers, right?
[03:04:52] <astinus> cannot import 'helios': pool may be in use from other system
[03:04:52] <astinus> use '-f' to import anyway
[03:04:55] <astinus> elektronkind: correct.
[03:05:14] <astinus> format shows them:
[03:05:16] <elektronkind> hmm, so zfs's label should still be on the disks that were moved then. weird
[03:05:16] <astinus>        9. c5d0 <Maxtor 6-B40A3CZ-0001-189.92GB>
[03:05:16] <astinus>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@1f,2/ide@0/cmdk@0,0
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[03:06:56] <astinus> 'pool may be in use from other system'' ?
[03:07:11] <solaris-user> i guess not
[03:07:26] <astinus> also, I'm trying to expand a raidz1 and its failing
[03:07:36] <astinus> zpool add dionysis c1t3d0
[03:07:42] <astinus> presumably that's the wrong command?
[03:07:42] <jamesd> you can't expand a raidz..
[03:07:59] <movement> richlowe: hrm, no, it's different
[03:08:01] <elektronkind> yeah, no expanding a raidz (yet)
[03:08:02] <jamesd> you can add another storage grouping.. like a seperate raidz group or a mirror..
[03:08:13] * astinus sighs
[03:08:29] <elektronkind> yeah, it's been discussed and there's a RFE for that
[03:08:54] <elektronkind> that, and shrinking pools are hot topics
[03:08:56] <solaris-user> elektronkind : dump your format output plz
[03:09:07] <elektronkind> huh?
[03:09:26] <astinus> so .. ideas about fixing this issue with helios being offline?
[03:09:58] <solaris-user> paste and copy or #format output here plz
[03:10:20] <solaris-user> lol
[03:10:24] <solaris-user> forget
[03:10:39] <astinus> Should I tell it to force an import, since I know its not in use elsewhere?
[03:10:49] <elektronkind> astinus: probably won't hurt
[03:11:02] <astinus> 'probably' lol :/
[03:11:09] <elektronkind> heh
[03:11:34] <astinus> heyyy
[03:11:36] <astinus> it worked :D
[03:11:41] <elektronkind> well well
[03:11:44] <astinus> helios                  564G    551G   13.0G    97%  ONLINE     -
[03:11:55] <astinus> that .. should have been automatic?
[03:12:17] <elektronkind> the zfs lables on the drives you moved around might have been left in a confused state
[03:12:26] <astinus> *nod*
[03:12:46] <elektronkind> so when you tried to import the pool, zfs played it safe until you forced it
[03:13:36] <elektronkind> I'd run a 'zpool scrub helios' just for grins
[03:14:12] <astinus> what's that do?
[03:14:15] <astinus> checksum verification?
[03:14:23] <elektronkind> pretty much
[03:14:39] <astinus> ouch
[03:14:45] <astinus> 1hr to scrub
[03:14:48] <elektronkind> it's i/o intensive
[03:15:03] <astinus> i noticed :P
[03:15:21] <elektronkind> but it's perhaps a bit paranoid to do, but worthwhile for peace of mind
[03:15:37] <astinus> okay, assuming I setup a bunch of disks with ZFS, no RAID-Z .. one drive fails, ZFS can cope with that?
[03:16:08] <elektronkind> no, only raidz and mirror offer redundancy if a physical device were to fail
[03:16:13] <Tpenta> if you are using mirroring, sure
[03:16:24] <astinus> nod
[03:16:29] <elektronkind> the checksums on the disks offer only block-level safeguards
[03:16:37] <astinus> okay, now I have to work out where I'm going to store 200G of data :/
[03:16:38] <elektronkind> rather, "record level"
[03:16:51] <astinus> since I can't expand this RAID-Z array :(
[03:17:18] <astinus>           raidz1    ONLINE       0     0     0
[03:17:18] <astinus>             c1t2d0  ONLINE       0     0     0
[03:17:18] <astinus>             c1t1d0  ONLINE       0     0     0
[03:17:21] <jamesd> astinus, you can make multiple raidz groups
[03:17:23] <astinus> that's it currently :X
[03:17:32] <astinus> do I lose n-2 drives?
[03:17:37] <elektronkind> yeah
[03:17:44] <astinus> not really an option then.
[03:18:00] <elektronkind> that's why vdev expansion is needed
[03:18:07] <astinus> it already hurts losing 250GB for parity
[03:18:26] <astinus> i have 8 * 250GB drives :S
[03:20:16] <astinus> hmmm
[03:20:29] <astinus> assuming above scenario of physical drive failure in a zpool
[03:20:31] <jamesd> but you at least get  compression if your data is compressible
[03:20:36] <astinus> you'd lose the data on that drive?
[03:20:37] <astinus> not the whole pool?
[03:20:54] <jamesd> if you have a raidz group you can loose one drive  without loosing any data
[03:21:02] <astinus> jamesd: i've had compression enabled since day 1, I get 1.00x on everything :P
[03:21:07] <jamesd> 2 drives die.. the filesystem is gone.
[03:21:10] <elektronkind> astinus: your data might be striped across multiple drives
[03:21:11] <astinus> jamesd: its all audio/visual stuff
[03:21:18] * astinus nods
[03:21:33] <astinus> elektronkind: but *some* data will be intact?
[03:21:45] <jamesd> astinus, then $100 for peice of mind that your 1.75 TB of p0rn is safe is a small price to pay.
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[03:22:02] <elektronkind> sure, some records will, but there wouldn't be a ready way to get just that data back
[03:22:11] <astinus> jamesd: *nod*
[03:22:20] <elektronkind> I don't think zfs is /that/ magical :)
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[03:22:31] <astinus> I think I'm going to shunt some data about, rebuild this RAID-Z with all 8*250G
[03:22:55] <astinus> elektronkind: its pretty damn magical compared to Linux + mdadm / LVM / Reiser
[03:23:02] <elektronkind> heh, that's the truth
[03:23:06] <astinus> I'm still dribbling every time I read the manpages ;p
[03:23:33] <hile_> okay, you really need to get laid if programmatic features cause that response :)
[03:23:48] <astinus> why'dya think I went to the hassle of moving almost 2TB of data around like musical chairs, and fought with X.org for 2-3 days to get my triple-head setup working :/
[03:24:05] <astinus> hile_: ain't that the truth, unfortunately, she's outta town for 3-4 more days :(
[03:24:18] <elektronkind> okay, #opensolaris field trip to the nudie bar with astinus in tow is in order
[03:24:36] <astinus> lmao :D
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[03:27:05] <hile_> the obvious question there is why the fuck you have 2TB of data on what's apparently your desktop box
[03:27:18] <elektronkind> heh why not :P
[03:27:31] <elektronkind> I archive all my CDs in lossless and that's 1TB
[03:27:39] <hile_> i tend not to put anything important on a desktop box
[03:27:46] <hile_> because i tend to blow them away at will doing dev
[03:28:03] <elektronkind> that's why I have a separate dev box :P
[03:29:02] <astinus> hile_: this box is my desktop, yeah .. the fileserver is over thar --> and has 4TB of disk
[03:29:36] <astinus> if I could find a bigger chassis, I'd probably lump most of it together .. until that time .. i be stuck :X
[03:30:55] <astinus> now if someone buying a few hundred thumpers could accidentally put my address down for their shipping info ..... I'd send all-1 back :P
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[03:32:08] <elektronkind> http://www.tyan.com/products/html/ta26b3992.html
[03:32:13] <elektronkind> I'm interested in getting one of those
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[03:32:34] <elektronkind> if I do, it will really help me develop my raid applicance software
[03:33:11] <elektronkind> and turn that from a peecee with lots of disks into a netapp-like NAS
[03:33:31] <Error_404> okiedokie...
[03:33:44] <astinus> evening Error_404
[03:33:44] <Error_404> for future reference, 64Mb rss is not enough to run glassfish in
[03:33:49] <Error_404> hey astinus
[03:34:16] <hile_> ugh nas
[03:34:20] * hile_ curses nas
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[03:43:48] <alanc_work> ooh, just got off the phone with Beijing - putback of i915 DRI for Solaris Xorg is imminent...
[03:44:27] <elektronkind> yay
[03:44:46] <elektronkind> o rrly
[03:44:58] <alanc_work> if all goes well, should be in nv_52
[03:45:13] <Gman> nice
[03:45:42] <elektronkind> no GMA950/i945 suppost yet, though... right?
[03:45:55] <elektronkind> s/suppost/support
[03:46:10] <alanc_work> not yet
[03:46:13] <alanc_work> that comes next
[03:46:42] <alanc_work> basic 2D/non-DRI support for that should be coming with Xorg 7.2
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[03:47:03] <alanc_work> (which I've built and one of the other people in my group is testing on an i945 tomorrow)
[03:47:17] <elektronkind> cool
[03:47:40] <elektronkind> that would work rather well for our dell optiplex 620 lab workstations
[03:48:03] <alanc_work> hopefully it will work better tomorrow than yesterday's build did, which failed to load because I screwed up the link path (linked 32-bit libraries into 64-bit binary)
[03:53:07] <alanc_work> Code Manager notification (putback-to)
[03:53:14] <alanc_work> 6418052 Direct Rendering Infrastructure (DRI) should be supported by Xorg
[03:53:15] <alanc_work> !
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[04:11:34] <boyd> Has astinus gone?
[04:11:49] <boyd> We seem to have the conversation weekly
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[04:51:13] * dclarke rke .. falls in the door
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[04:58:40] <boyd> You ok dclarke ?
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[05:12:32] <dclarke> looks at it .. very very briefly
[05:12:35] <dclarke> like .. very
[05:12:53] <dclarke> sorry .. doing other stuff here
[05:13:11] <dclarke> like trying to find my Windows XP Pro license key
[05:13:44] <dclarke> am doing a reinstall into VMWare
[05:13:54] <dclarke> the VMware people have a update out .. version 5.5.2 of Workstation
[05:13:54] <jamesd> forget the workstation version, the vmware server is better
[05:13:54] <jamesd> and free
[05:14:02] <boyd> What's the difference, anyway?
[05:14:10] <dclarke> well .. I alredy have the licenses
[05:14:17] <dclarke> you ought to know ..
[05:14:22] <dclarke> eh ?
[05:14:25] <dclarke> :-)
[05:14:31] <dclarke> brb
[05:14:50] <boyd> Well, whaddaya know, a Canadian saying eh :)
[05:14:51] <jamesd> workstation is for one vhost per instance...
[05:15:04] <boyd> I see.
[05:15:19] <jamesd> and server runs multiple instances and you can login to a server vhost from remote boxes
[05:16:22] <boyd> Cool... much better
[05:16:42] <boyd> You mean remote console?
[05:16:59] <jamesd> yeah
[05:17:07] <boyd> Cool indeed
[05:17:17] <jamesd> same client.. no matter what is the os in the vhost
[05:17:18] <boyd> Now all I need is a host for it to run on :)
[05:17:38] <jamesd> yeah it needs a decent box to get good performance
[05:17:47] <boyd> sure.
[05:17:56] <boyd> If only there were a solaris x86 version
[05:18:35] <jamesd> i know.. that would totally. rock
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[05:22:30] <jamesd> a bit
[05:22:38] <dclarke> yes .. to hammer home the point
[05:22:55] <dclarke> the otehr option that I have is to purchase an ESX License
[05:23:54] <dclarke> something called a "VMware Technology Network Subscription"
[05:23:54] <dclarke> its pretty damn good price really
[05:23:54] <dclarke> looks to be $300 USD
[05:23:54] <dclarke>               License for 1 year subscription for 1 developer
[05:23:55] <dclarke> ncludes: Workstation, GSX Server, ESX Server w/ Virtual SMP, P2V Assistant Enterprise Edition (for both Linux and Windows Operating Systems)
[05:24:12] <dclarke> so that may be my only way to go to get ESX
[05:24:36] <jamesd> yeah... well if you are doing this for a bussiness.. you either use individual boxes and try to size each one right.. or use  vmware server   if you are a corprate you pull out your checkbook
[05:25:04] <dclarke> this is for an accounting firm
[05:25:07] <dclarke> a small shop
[05:25:19] <dclarke> but they need to upgrade about 32 workstations
[05:25:38] <dclarke> the admin people and the management have totally had it up to here with Microsoft
[05:26:01] <dclarke> and this dumb idea that they have to upgrade or replace a pile of computers .. again .. after only 2 years
[05:26:09] <jamesd> then buy 1/2 dozen  x2100 or x4100's and 32 sunrays...
[05:26:22] <dclarke> so I told them that I could give them a demo of a SunRay solution
[05:26:40] <dclarke> no .. buy one honking big X4500
[05:26:46] <dclarke> or X4600
[05:26:52] <dclarke> whatever the 8-way box is
[05:26:55] <jamesd> and what happens when it fails..
[05:27:04] <dclarke> why would it ?
[05:27:04] <jamesd> you need at least 2
[05:27:15] <dclarke> does Sun build crap ?  I don't think so
[05:27:30] <boyd> (!crap) != never_fails
[05:27:34] <dclarke> okay .. so two for redundency but this si a shop with a backend Win2003 server
[05:27:35] <jamesd> have you ever seen a x86 box that will take more than a year of constant beating on it..
[05:27:38] <solaris-user> ultra 20 is crap -_-
[05:27:49] <jamesd> ultra 20 is nice.. at least my box is
[05:27:50] <dclarke> jamesd : yes
[05:28:03] <dclarke> jamesd : yes indeed I have
[05:28:25] <jamesd> two smaller boxes are better.. perferably 3..
[05:28:28] <dclarke> but that is not the point
[05:28:37] <dclarke> no one in the management cares about that issue
[05:28:42] <dclarke> they really don't
[05:28:48] <dclarke> the idea of two servers .. forget it
[05:28:58] <dclarke> they can run with a single Win2003 server
[05:29:12] <dclarke> so .. they can run with a single big honking X4n00 box
[05:29:41] <boyd> Except that they can get more done on a PC with no fileserver than they can get done on a sunray with no server
[05:29:59] <jamesd> you can't power 32 sunrays plus  windows sessions or linux sessions on a single box.. and expect it to work long term.. 6x  x2100.. is 6k.. it gives you fail over and 10 times the flexibility.
[05:30:39] <jamesd> brb
[05:30:43] <dclarke> boyd : not true
[05:30:55] <boyd> You can work locally
[05:31:01] <dclarke> boyd : their accounting software _must_ have a backend server
[05:31:02] <boyd> ... you can play solitaire
[05:31:07] <dclarke> oh .. yeah
[05:31:10] <boyd> :)
[05:31:28] <dclarke> solataire on windows == work
[05:31:35] <boyd> So does this acct sw run on solaris?
[05:31:40] <Teltariat> Hello folks.  Just wondering: any of you here ever got OpenSolaris going in Xen?
[05:31:41] <dclarke> I thought a force over time was work .. but what do I know
[05:31:53] <dclarke> Teltariat: never tried
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[05:32:16] <boyd> Teltariat: I've been meaning to get around to it :)
[05:32:41] <Teltariat> Well, if I try to do it, is there a chance that I'll live to see the light of the next day?
[05:32:50] <Teltariat> Or no?
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[05:33:02] <boyd> No, you will open a portal to hades
[05:33:13] <Teltariat> Thats what I was expecting.
[05:33:16] <boyd> please close it behind you
[05:33:20] <dclarke> ha ha
[05:33:21] <Teltariat> Anyone have any anti-demon spray?
[05:33:28] <dclarke> geez .. you crack me up !
[05:33:33] <boyd> that's "daemon" :)
[05:34:06] <Teltariat> Well now, if I spray all my daemons away, there goes my OpenSolaris boat.... which I'll kind of be needing to make it over the River Styx
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[05:34:40] <boyd> Got your silver?
[05:34:42] <jamesd> if you are going to deploy linux, linux is about horizontal scaling.. you cant expect it to give you 99.99 uptime with only a single box.. if the box falls over the whole company goes off line.. and you wont get repeat bussines and the sunrays will be in the trash the next week
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[05:36:01] <boyd> Send a couple to me. I'll wipe off the trash.
[05:36:10] <Teltariat> Linux boxes can stack vertically too.  I should know.  I tried.......and then I bumped into the stack...... t'was a painful experience.
[05:36:17] <Teltariat> Never stand under a falling stack of Linux servers.
[05:36:19] <Teltariat> Take my word.
[05:37:11] <boyd> Anyone know if it's possible to make the install of SS11 non-interactive?
[05:37:44] <Teltariat> jamesd, what do you think of BSD?  I can understand the uptime issues of Linux, but BSD seems pretty solid to me.
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[05:38:08] <dclarke> I had heard that BSD was super solid
[05:38:13] <jamesd> freebsd doesn't have the application support needed in this task
[05:38:16] <dclarke> but a strange world with .. demons
[05:38:43] <jamesd> he need to deploy 32 sunrays and desktops.. he needs more than a fileserver and a webserver
[05:38:55] <dclarke> forget BSD for that
[05:39:01] <dclarke> I am looking at ESX now
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[05:39:08] <dclarke> and I have a credit card in hand
[05:39:23] <dclarke> I'm looking at the bid ol' button that says "check out"
[05:39:25] <jamesd> dclarke, no, you make the client pay up...
[05:39:29] <dclarke> its all very scary
[05:39:39] <dclarke> well .. I need to run a demo
[05:39:45] <dclarke> they want the bloody demo
[05:39:51] <boyd> Surely there are demo licenses
[05:39:52] <jamesd> run your demo on vmware server...
[05:39:59] <dclarke> thin client is just way too new for accountants
[05:40:17] <dclarke> the GSX you mean ?
[05:40:24] <jamesd> no  vmware server.
[05:40:30] <Teltariat> My first experience with the VMWare OS product was a bad one.
[05:40:33] <Teltariat> ESX, was it?
[05:40:35] <Teltariat> I don't recall.
[05:40:37] * dclarke heads spins
[05:40:56] <Teltariat> The installation BLUE SCREENED.  A Linux based product BLUE SCREENED.  VMWare modified Linux so that it could BLUE SCREEN.
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[05:41:02] <jamesd> http://www.vmware.com/products/server/
[05:41:03] <Teltariat> I'm *still* reeling from the experience.
[05:41:10] <dclarke> I'm about to do the exorcist head spin and vomit trick
[05:41:28] <Teltariat> Me too.  Recalling that blue screen experience has me kinda sick right now.
[05:41:38] <boyd> dclarke: Tell the accountants it's a green-screen terminal. With color. And a mouse. Then they won't find it so novel :)
[05:42:05] <dclarke> these are people that wear suspenders and a belt at the same time
[05:42:12] <dclarke> but they won't spend a penny
[05:42:22] <dclarke> unless it is all shown to them .. and laid out
[05:42:29] <jamesd> then vmware server is all the better
[05:42:36] <dclarke> now .. let me look at that
[05:42:39] <dclarke> its not ..
[05:42:40] <boyd> They wear suspenders and a belt and yet they have a single server for their mission critical app!?!
[05:42:41] <dclarke> not
[05:42:44] <dclarke> not ESX ?
[05:42:51] <dclarke> boyd : yes
[05:43:03] <jamesd> vmware server replaced  gsx
[05:43:07] <boyd> They need to reconsider their failure mode priorities
[05:43:10] <dclarke> boyd : they are accountants .. sort of like  the vogans in HHGTG
[05:43:41] <boyd> Their risk-analysis skills apparently suck
[05:43:50] <boyd> (I think it's Vogons, btw)
[05:44:02] <dclarke> VMware Server 1.0.1
[05:44:04] <dclarke> 	Latest Version: 1.0.1 | 8/14/06 | Build 29996
[05:44:07] <dclarke> ah ha ...
[05:47:45] <dclarke> I'm so fu#$king confused
[05:47:58] <dclarke> this looks like another bloody set of rpms to install
[05:48:03] <dclarke> it is
[05:48:14] <dclarke> its not like ESX so it does not install onto bare metal
[05:48:32] <dclarke> okay .. but its called "srver"
[05:48:39] <dclarke> server
[05:48:42] <dclarke> okay ..
[05:50:20] <dclarke> its downloading now
[05:50:27] <dclarke> this will take a while
[05:50:50] <dclarke> be back in .. "a while" eh
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[05:53:00] <jamesd> gsx lives on linux or windows
[05:53:06] <jamesd> esx is on raw hardware
[05:53:36] <delewis> well, ESX is really Red Hat 7.x :-)
[05:53:57] <dclarke> wtf ?
[05:54:00] <dclarke> what ?
[05:54:09] <dclarke> ESX is RH 7.x ?
[05:54:19] <delewis> dclarke: at least ESX 2.5 was (which was only last year)
[05:54:24] <delewis> 7.1, IIRC.
[05:54:27] <delewis> maybe 7.2
[05:54:38] <delewis> cat /etc/redhat_release (or whatever it is)
[05:54:41] <dclarke> geez .. this explains why there is no solution for Solaris 10
[05:54:54] <delewis> dclarke: that's ESX, not GSX>
[05:54:59] <dclarke> well .. maybe we can stuff it into a brandZ
[05:55:09] <delewis> GSX runs on top of an existing operating system -- no reason, VMware couldn't port it to Solaris.
[05:55:12] <dclarke> I am downloading GSX now
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[05:56:31] * delewis hates 12 hour ON builds
[05:56:34] <jamesd> dclarke, gsx == server the differences aren't worth mentioning and  gsx is older.
[05:56:53] <dclarke> its downloading now
[05:56:57] <dclarke> I better get the docs
[05:57:00] <dclarke> all of them
[05:57:05] <dclarke> and make coffee
[05:57:13] <delewis> dclarke: it's pretty straight-forward
[05:57:20] <delewis> you run some Perl script, it does it's thing
[05:57:31] <delewis> which starts up an httpd, and let's you configure it
[05:57:38] <delewis> then you can create all of your VMs
[05:57:39] <dclarke> hopefully it also does bridged networking etc etc
[05:57:45] <delewis> dclarke: of course
[05:58:10] <dclarke> the next bugger will be running SunRay services on Linux
[05:58:15] <dclarke> barf
[05:58:15] <delewis> SUNW,Ultra-4
[05:58:17] <delewis> interesting.
[05:58:20] <delewis> what's an Ultra 4?
[05:58:36] <dclarke> nextgen UltraSparc
[05:58:49] <boyd> It's 2 x Ultra2 + baling twine
[05:58:50] <delewis> :-)
[05:58:56] <dclarke> yep .. thats it
[05:59:09] <dclarke> en E450 with out the "50"
[06:01:55] <dclarke> I'm not much of a Linux admin
[06:02:09] <dclarke> given that I installed VMware Workstation with rpm
[06:02:17] <dclarke> how does one .. de-installed it ?
[06:02:24] <dclarke> with rm -rf /   ?
[06:02:25] <delewis> rpm -e
[06:02:31] <delewis> rpm -e <name of rpm>
[06:02:38] <delewis> which is probably vmware-workstation
[06:02:39] <dclarke> rpm -e  creates a list ?
[06:02:53] <dclarke> I guess rpm is the package management tool
[06:02:56] <twincest> rpm -e removes the rpm
[06:03:11] <dclarke> hopefully it can generate a list of packages installed chronologically
[06:03:17] <dclarke> perfect
[06:03:36] <dclarke> what a dumb option .. but I'll use it
[06:03:36] <twincest> 'erase'
[06:04:19] <dclarke> ah
[06:04:20] <dclarke> so .. glorified rm -rf
[06:04:40] <delewis> that and it edits the package database in a similar manner than pkgrm would.
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[06:04:47] <delewis> s/than/that/
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[06:05:54] <twincest> and calls post-remove scripts
[06:06:16] <dclarke> I'm glad VMware documents their snags neatly
[06:06:26] <dclarke> I have a 64-bit RHEL4 box here
[06:06:37] <dclarke> "4-bit Linux Host Doesn't Install 32-bit Compatibility Libraries by Default"
[06:06:59] <boyd> Ya gotta hate those 4-bit linux installs :)
[06:07:13] <delewis> talk about a small memory space..
[06:07:15] <dclarke> yep .. oh .. I dream of an 8-bit processor
[06:07:33] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, linux on a rapper isn't all it's cracked up to be
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[06:10:06] <gdamore> hi *
[06:10:14] <dclarke> golly gee ...Sun Ray Server Software 3.1.1, Multi-language released for Linux but not Solaris
[06:10:25] <dclarke> on Solaris its 3.1 still
[06:10:44] <dclarke> probably 3.1.1 fixed issues with Linux that did not exist in Solaris
[06:10:58] <jamesd> yeap
[06:11:06] <dclarke> I'll return ... later
[06:11:09] <dclarke> hey James !
[06:11:18] <dclarke> james
[06:11:31] <dclarke> jamesd : you saved me $299 bucks USD
[06:11:46] <jamesd> good
[06:11:47] <dclarke> so .. time to go visit your donate button I think
[06:12:02] * dclarke is broke anyways
[06:12:06] * Teltariat too.
[06:12:19] <jamesd> for your demo  vmware server will be fine.
[06:12:45] <jamesd> untill you have a check in hand use free versions as much as possible.
[06:14:43] <dclarke> good common sense
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[06:17:01] <delewis> I wanted to do something similar for a law firm last summer I was consulting for -- instead of buying 10 new Dell systems and a Poweredge running Solaris, they could've bought 10 Sun Rays, and two Poweredges (one running Solaris, and one running Windows 2003. The Solaris server would've been the Sun Ray server, and the Windows server could've been a simple Windows terminal server that they could use SSGD to access or 'rde
[06:17:12] <delewis> but alas, it was considered two radical.
[06:18:13] <delewis> certainly would've been more fun to implement, though :-)
[06:20:39] <delewis> s/two/too, ugh, I need coffee this late at night.
[06:28:31] <jamesd> yeap
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[06:35:09] <broadcast> dclarke, i using pkg-get and that installing sunos5.8 packages. :)
[06:35:10] <broadcast> hi!
[06:35:51] <broadcast> i can install packages from that mirror? -> ftp://sunsite.rediris.es/mirror/solaris-freeware/sparc/5.10/
[06:35:57] <broadcast> I using solaris 10.
[06:37:00] <Error_404> why wouldn't you be able to?
[06:37:07] <Error_404> so long as you're using sparc
[06:37:59] <broadcast> Error_404, i using sparc
[06:39:03] <broadcast> i want install packages from that mirror in pkg-get style.
[06:39:24] <Error_404> oh, then you'll need a blastwave mirror
[06:39:29] <broadcast> pkg-get can change mirrors but he search 2 files
[06:39:49] <broadcast> yes, but blastwave mirrors is old.
[06:40:35] <broadcast> pkg-get install packages for sunos5.8
[06:40:59] <broadcast> and have dependency problems
[06:41:22] <broadcast> sorry for my inglish is very bad. x)
[06:42:17] <Error_404> http://www.blastwave.org/userguide/
[06:42:26] <Error_404> guides, on how to use blastwave
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[06:43:19] <Error_404> man -M /opt/csw/man pkg-get
[06:43:28] <broadcast> Error_404, i readed it and it install software for sunos5.8
[06:43:29] <Error_404> you probably just need to sync & try again
[06:43:42] <Error_404> so what, it's compiled for solaris 8
[06:43:57] <broadcast> and i have solaris 10
[06:44:03] <Error_404> and what's the problem?
[06:44:16] <broadcast> i want one system for install packages for solaris 10.
[06:44:24] <Error_404> what's the difference
[06:44:28] <gleaken> I have a Blade 100 with 640 meg of ram, 120 gig hdd and I have been trying to boot the OpenSolaris installation DVD for about 2 hours now with 3 different DVD drives and three different types of media, I get "the file just loaded does not appear to be executable" any suggestions?
[06:44:38] <gleaken> B49
[06:44:40] <broadcast> Error_404, dependency problems, errors... etc.
[06:45:03] <g4lt-mordant> gleaken, which image?
[06:45:24] <Error_404> broadcast: has nothing to do with them being compiled against Sol8, and has everything to do with the fact you need to sync pkg-get & try again
[06:45:55] <gleaken> g4lt-mordant, I have been using B49, which is what I had downloaded about a week ago, trying boot cdrom at the OK prompt
[06:46:12] <g4lt-mordant> no really, which image
[06:46:48] <gleaken> ... pardon my ignorance I am new to sparc, you mean as in boot cdrom <something>?
[06:47:39] <g4lt-mordant> no, as in what image did you burn to the DVD in the first place
[06:48:32] <gleaken> I got the 5 parts from Sun.com, unzipped them, cat'ed them into one ISO and burned that on a linux box
[06:48:43] <gleaken> is that what you mean?
[06:48:52] <broadcast> Error_404, i updated and upgraded and all have bad packages
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[06:49:09] <g4lt-mordant> yes, and what were their names?
[06:49:12] <astinus> java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /tank/home/ahowells/.eclipse/org.eclipse.platform_3.2.0/configuration/org.eclipse.osgi/bundles/78/1/.cp/libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so: ld.so.1: java: fatal: /tank/home/ahowells/.eclipse/org.eclipse.platform_3.2.0/configuration/org.eclipse.osgi/bundles/78/1/.cp/libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so: Permission denied
[06:49:23] <astinus> Anyone familiar with Eclipse seen that  ^^^^  before?
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[06:50:26] <gleaken> sol-nv-b49-sparc-dvd-iso-<a to e>.zip
[06:51:42] <DataStream> gleaken: what error do you get when you do boot cdrom at the OK> promt
[06:51:45] <g4lt-mordant> hmm, prolly largefile issue
[06:52:39] <gleaken> g4lt-mordant, "the file just loaded does not appear to be executable"
[06:53:26] <gleaken> g4lt-mordant, I have also gotten a couple of other errors if the disc is not done spinning up, but that is understandable, I get the not executable even if I reboot with the disc in the drive
[06:53:57] <DataStream> gleaken: and you followed the cat instuctions correctly
[06:54:10] <DataStream> (didnt use the windoze commands or some shit like that)
[06:54:14] <DataStream> GOTTA CHECK
[06:54:17] <DataStream> dam caps
[06:54:59] <gleaken> DataStream, no, used cat file1 file2 file3 file4 file5 > file.iso
[06:55:16] <DataStream> after you unzipped them
[06:55:25] <gleaken> created a 3.3 gig iso which should be good
[06:56:14] <gleaken> yes, I checked the MD5SUM first, then used archive manager to extract them, it was gui and easy, so I used that, then cat'ed them together, then burned the image on 2 dvd-r and one dvd+r
[06:56:36] <gleaken> none of the three discs worked
[06:56:47] <gleaken> same result, so I tried a newer dvd drive, didn't work
[06:57:13] <Error_404> you have newer SCSI drives punting around?
[06:57:17] <DataStream> my sol 10 06/06 sparc dvd size is over 4gig
[06:57:30] <gleaken> pulled out a pioneer dvr-109 which is recognized by probe-ide and with all three discs on that dirve got the same error
[06:57:31] <DataStream> so im gonna assume that the newer express are a little larger
[06:57:53] <DataStream> x86 06/06 is just under 3gig
[06:58:19] <g4lt-mordant> Error_404, what part of "blade 100" are you missing? ;P
[06:58:29] <jamesd> yes.. the latest solaris express is 6 disks now i think
[06:58:30] <Error_404> the "blade 100" part
[06:58:38] <Error_404> heh
[06:59:43] <gleaken> I tried set-defaults, and reset-all to reboot, but still, no luck
[07:00:00] <DataStream> right, so 3.3 gig is too small
[07:00:19] <DataStream> mabey one of the sections didnt download right
[07:00:28] <DataStream> common on windoze, not sure about linux
[07:00:42] <gleaken> hmm, but the md5 sum of the zip files was all correct
[07:00:54] <gleaken> maybe the extract is doing something wrong
[07:01:16] * g4lt-mordant *cough*largefile issues*cough*
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[07:01:42] <DataStream> check all the size of the zips against the sizes it says they should be on the download page
[07:01:46] <DataStream> g4lt-mordant: :)
[07:02:14] <gleaken> g4lt-mordant, largefile issue?
[07:03:08] <g4lt-mordant> most OSen other than solaris can't handle a single file of approximately 4G
[07:03:46] <Error_404> and in certain solaris configurations you can mmap() the whole thing
[07:03:52] <gleaken> but I am using an ext3 filesystem on the linux box, not stored on fat32 or anything like that
[07:03:59] <gleaken> is that what you mean?
[07:04:23] <Error_404> could be an ext3 thing
[07:04:30] <Error_404> *shrug*
[07:04:45] <gleaken> ...  doubt it, I burned the X86 discs off of the same machine
[07:05:22] <DataStream> gleaken: got another soarc box you can jumpstart off?
[07:05:25] <astinus> gleaken: What distribution, what kernel, and what architecture is your Linux box?
[07:05:26] <DataStream> sparc even
[07:06:28] <gleaken> ubuntu 2.6.16-27-686 i386
[07:06:30] <Error_404> gleaken: solution 2 is to grab the CD images
[07:06:39] <Error_404> as in, not the dvd image
[07:06:59] <gleaken> ok, don't have any cdrs, just dvd+/-r
[07:07:38] <Triskelios> md5sum the actual image?
[07:07:39] <DataStream> start downloading, by the time you have got back from the shop, it may be 1/10th done
[07:07:42] <DataStream> :P
[07:08:04] <gleaken> I didn't see an md5 sum for the whole image, just the zip parts
[07:08:09] <gleaken> let me look again
[07:08:20] <Triskelios> gleaken: just google it after you've got it
[07:09:18] <Triskelios> if that doesn't work there are dozens of people here who you can check against...
[07:09:48] <gleaken> missed it at the top
[07:10:07] <gleaken> md5 summing total iso now
[07:10:40] <gleaken> <insert jeopardy theme here>
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[07:11:48] <gleaken> nope, the md5sum is ok against the md5sum.list
[07:11:55] <gleaken> soultan, the image was created properly
[07:12:33] <gleaken> so then, the image was created properly, wow, I am tired
[07:12:47] <DataStream> no, im tellin you, 3.3gig for a up to date sparc sol express is too small
[07:13:26] <Triskelios> DataStream: doesn't matter what you say about the image, odds are it's correct
[07:13:31] <gleaken> DataStream, but then how can the md5 sum come out ok against the sun web site
[07:14:11] <gleaken> the dvd is on the same ide channel as the hdd, does that matter?
[07:14:14] <DataStream> Triskelios: but how can it be, when the 06/06 i ahve is over 4gig, so the express has to be a little bigger, right?
[07:14:17] <gleaken> the drive is recognized
[07:14:37] <Triskelios> DataStream: who knows
[07:14:42] <DataStream> Triskelios: or is that just a totaly wrong assumption
[07:14:55] <Triskelios> DataStream: apparently it is
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[07:15:18] <DataStream> ill be honest, and say i have never looked at an md5 in my life
[07:15:21] <DataStream> lol
[07:15:38] <DataStream> so no idea about them, and how wrong they can be
[07:16:01] <Triskelios> MD5 is a common hash function
[07:16:07] <gleaken> there are collisions out there, but they are lab generated, none seen in the wild. just proof of concept stuff
[07:16:08] <digijohn> goodnight
[07:18:11] <gleaken> I hate to say this, but I need sleep, I will try back again tomorrow.  Thanks for all the time everyone.
[07:18:21] <Triskelios> good night
[07:18:55] <Triskelios> some machines have openboot revs that simply refuse to boot from DVDs
[07:20:17] <DataStream> well the SB100 isnt exactly new :)
[07:21:19] <DataStream> Triskelios: someone else said the same thing, basically, grab the cd images
[07:22:20] <DataStream> Shame they cant make them interchangeable really, so the 5/6 cd images can be catted together to for a dvd
[07:23:39] <Triskelios> wait, was the Sun Blade 100 released right after the Ultra 5/10s?
[07:24:05] <DataStream> not sure
[07:24:11] <DataStream> cant have been far after
[07:24:39] <g4lt-mordant> well, I know that sol9 GA had an openprom update for blade100's
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[07:26:16] <Triskelios> the current version for U5/U10 still doesn't boot from DVD
[07:26:32] <Triskelios> which is fine, it's faster to just use the first CD to netinstall anyway
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[07:54:10] <delewis> Triskelios: there may be a firmware update for the SB100's DVD drive.
[07:54:23] <delewis> there was one for the SB1000's Toshiba-based one (but it's SCSI)
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[08:11:23] <Error_404> ugh... java technical documentation... so boring... must... stay awake...
[08:12:22] <Error_404> solaris internals is orders of magnitude more interesting than the J2EE tutorials
[08:12:38] <Error_404> because SI is *actually* interesting
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[08:22:19] * timeless wonders if dtrace and perl can cooperate
[08:22:28] <jamesd>  yes
[08:23:03] <jamesd> you can embed your dtrace script or generate dtrace code with perl.. and there is even  modified version of perl that has  static probe points for perl
[08:23:23] <timeless> that last one is what i want
[08:23:27] <timeless> my perl is bad
[08:23:34] <timeless> %Time ExclSec CumulS #Calls sec/call Csec/c  Name
[08:23:34] <timeless>  63.7   9.295  9.295 135628   0.0000 0.0000  LXR::Common::getnext_fileentry_3_1
[08:24:21] <jamesd> its been done..   search for   dtrace perl   at  unixconsult.org/solaris
[08:24:41] <timeless> i'm reading blogs.sun.com/alanbur/entry/dtrace_and_perl
[08:25:41] <jamesd> there is allready a RFE to add the modified dtrace enabled perl to solaris express...  i know i submitted it and it was approved... not sure if anyone is working on it yet.
[08:25:57] <timeless> ooh, thanks :)
[08:26:19] <jamesd> okay 1:30 am .. bed time see you tomorow
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[08:34:19] <timeless> oh right
[08:34:43] <timeless> that's the cost of reading my entirely 135,628 line file once :(
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[08:42:08] <Error_404> heh, marketing
[08:42:28] <Error_404> "to address the shortcomings of CGI, java servlet technology was created"...
[08:43:33] <Error_404> i'm relatively certain mod_perl was first
[08:43:55] <djgregor> well, and fastcgi
[08:44:00] <g4lt-mordant> , to make evberybody complaining about CGI know what REAL hell was
[08:45:21] <g4lt-mordant> remember kiddiez "shut your pie hole" is addressing concerns as well
[08:46:46] <djgregor> one of our cats just triumphantly brought a plastic bag into the office that he killed with his own paws
[08:48:10] <djgregor> speaking of servlets, /me needs more caffeine before converting a JSP page into a happy Spring MVC app
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[09:21:15] <boyd> Error_404: It's Java EE now... can't you keep up? They renamed yet another thing again
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[10:10:35] <kimc> good morning
[10:10:40] <raph_ael> hello
[10:10:51] <kimc> hello
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[11:04:24] <kimc> cu later..
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[11:52:09] <Symmetria> hey all
[11:54:17] <dunc> morn
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[12:12:46] <jengelh> cat /devices/pseudo/mydrv@0:0 shows some data, though the driver is not loaded. What's wrong?
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[12:22:00] <jengelh> possibly a bug in modinfo?
[12:23:15] <jengelh> http://rafb.net/paste/results/mu3NST43.html
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[12:38:09] <PerterB> if you truss modinfo, it looks pretty simplistic... it loops calling modctl() and printing the results, so if there's a bug it's probably not in modinfo
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[13:10:47] <sickness> lunch time
[13:18:19] <delewis> anyone having trouble logging into SDLC?
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[13:39:15] <asyd> hudson is very very very nice, java people should try it
[13:41:05] <jteo> what's hudson? yes i'm lazy.
[13:41:48] <delewis> asyd: looks nice for doing OpenSolaris 'nightly' builds
[13:41:56] <delewis> https://hudson.dev.java.net/
[13:42:08] <asyd> delewis: hehe
[13:42:22] <asyd> you can take a look in hudson at http://lei.asyd.net/hudson/
[13:42:59] <trygvis> hudson is (was) just a damagecontrol rip-off
[13:43:16] <trygvis> if you want to build java stuff there's only two free alternatives: cruisecontrol or continuum
[13:43:20] <delewis> though, to use Java for such (what seems) to be a simple task, worries me.
[13:43:58] <asyd> trygvis: well, I tried cruisecontrol for the project I use, and I don't like at all
[13:43:59] <trygvis> right, but it's not a simple task :)
[13:44:05] <asyd> I'm more happy with hudson
[13:44:22] <trygvis> I know, cruisecontrol is rather hard to set up .. but it is dead stable once you get it going
[13:44:37] <delewis> trygvis: really? you could just have a simple script that monitors user's mboxen for cron failures (presume they aren't redirecting everything to /dev/null)
[13:44:46] <delewis> and then updates some static HTML files
[13:44:53] <trygvis> right, but the building part is the easy part
[13:45:07] <trygvis> you want schedules, permissions, configurability etc
[13:45:13] <delewis> ah
[13:45:40] <trygvis> and they are really not that hard to set up, at least not continuum (which is my recomended CI server)
[13:47:17] <asyd> ok
[13:47:23] <asyd> maybe I'll try it
[13:47:51] <trygvis> not worth if it you already have a setup that works
[13:48:03] <trygvis> if you at the same time use maven to build it is super easy to get started
[13:48:09] <trygvis> :)
[13:55:10] <asyd> well, I'm not a developper of the project
[13:55:44] <trygvis> ah, ok
[13:56:37] *** calumb is now known as calLNCH
[13:56:44] <asyd> I'm very close of them though, but it's a good thing there is not code of mine in the project :P
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[14:03:00] <movement> hrm, onnv-notify seems hung again
[14:03:10] <movement> oh, oops, no
[14:03:35] <asyd> btw, are there some people interest by working on a VRRP daemon for Solaris ?
[14:04:22] <delewis> asyd: might be a potential OpenSolaris project
[14:04:29] <asyd> yeah I thinking about that
[14:05:46] <delewis> try mentioning it on osol-discuss and see if anyone is interested in working on it
[14:06:02] <asyd> ok
[14:07:38] <jteo> asyd: i'm sure there're people.
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[14:11:24] <solaris-user> sup all
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[14:22:36] <quasi> asyd: networking-discuss may be a better place?
[14:23:00] <asyd> well
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[14:23:34] <asyd> that's I thougt in a first time, but : "he process for requesting a new project requires that a community member write a proposal to the opensolaris-discuss list
[14:23:39] <asyd> from /os/projects/
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[14:25:48] <quasi> right, but floating the idea on networking-discuss before taking it elsewhere may find you some interested people
[14:26:00] <asyd> I'll cc the networking-discuss though
[14:26:44] <asyd> posted
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[14:30:00] <richlowe> jmcp.
[14:30:18] * jmcp returns dual-digitally triumphant
[14:30:19] <jmcp> howdy
[14:30:40] <jmcp> time to share the knowledge
[14:30:45] * jmcp heads to his blog ......
[14:34:53] <richlowe> woohoo?
[14:35:15] <jmcp> getting to that point, yeah :)
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[14:37:04] <quasi> jmcp: isn't your blog listed on planetsolaris?
[14:37:17] <jmcp> quasi: oh, I don't think it is, now that I think about it
[14:37:22] <jmcp> it's on community.sun.com/blogs
[14:38:15] <quasi> yeah, but I've not been able to find an rss feed for that
[14:39:07] <Berny> hey folsk
[14:39:12] <Berny> folks even
[14:39:18] <jteo> i would complain that no one reads my blog, but that's just me. ;)
[14:39:27] <jteo> maybe if i buy dual monitors too...
[14:39:50] <coffman> ff 2 for solaris is out.. (old news maybe)
[14:40:09] <Berny> does anyone know of a vpn client for solx86 that can do ipsec?
[14:40:21] <jmcp> punchin ?
[14:40:29] * richlowe eyes jmcp
[14:40:32] <quasi> jteo: maybe if it was easier to find?
[14:40:37] <jmcp> richlowe: :)
[14:41:33] <movement> stupid blogs.sun.com
[14:41:58] <trygvis> Berny: sol 10 comes with an ipsec client built-in
[14:42:24] <quasi> movement: quite annoying that the feed is so short that you've got to read it 2-3 times a day to keep up
[14:42:31] <Berny> hmm, is there some doc / howto for punchin and ipsec?
[14:42:41] <asyd> punchin ?
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[14:44:08] <quasi> asyd: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nwam/story-boards/;jsessionid=FFE279F1E045DFD311F946A22D035C54 is first hit on google ;)
[14:44:12] <movement> "Welcome to Roller!
[14:44:12] <movement> Follow these steps to finalize your Roller installation:"
[14:44:27] <movement> quasi: any reason you're not using a feed reader?
[14:44:44] <jmcp> asyd: the sun-on-sun ike/ipsec vpn solution which *everybody* in Solaris engineering uses
[14:44:51] <asyd> ok
[14:45:26] <asyd> quasi: ?! fist hit on google for what ?
[14:45:32] <quasi> movement: I like having sage integrated in firefox
[14:45:48] <quasi> asyd: punchin and ipsec
[14:45:58] <asyd> ah :)
[14:46:51] <Berny> .oO(does ok, now lets find some documentation i understand after 2hours sleep last night :-)
[14:48:46] <Berny> .oO(let me guess punchin is not yet available to the general public?)
[14:48:59] <jmcp> Berny: correct
[14:49:01] <jmcp> and boy do I miss it
[14:49:12] <Berny> damn it
[14:49:23] <jmcp> there are some backend bits that won't see the light of day - mainly the ones which plugin in to hw solutions
[14:49:26] <Berny> so no chance for me to use wireless at work (yet)
[14:49:31] <jmcp> but the rest of it is on the CDDL track
[14:49:58] <Berny> cisco crap all around and no vpn client yet
[14:50:42] <jmcp> Berny: you don't like the vpn3000 solution which thinks that Solaris only runs on UltraSparc chips, ms-windows, rh-linux and MacOSx?
[14:50:44] <jmcp> awww
[14:51:25] <jmcp> the thing I really appreciated about punchin - apart from the processor-agnosticism - is that I was getting 2x the throughput with it compared to the cisco vpn-5000 client
[14:51:56] <richlowe> whoever recreated the osol-arc problem on arc-discuss is going to feel my wrath.
[14:52:23] <richlowe> not that I don't *enjoy* collecting foolishly inspired bounce messages, obviously... but.
[14:52:38] <Berny> jmcp: ack i finally got an vpn client from cisco which sparc only :-\
[14:52:53] <Berny> maybe someone would like to sponsor me a sparc notebook 8-)
[14:53:15] <jmcp> Berny: gdamore ...... :)_
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[14:54:08] <jamesd> take a notebook  probably 300 sheets/5 subjects and write sparc on it...  their you now have a sparc notebook
[14:54:14] <proog> hello, is there a way to install solaris without using a cd/dvd?
[14:54:26] <jamesd> yes  jumpstart
[14:54:49] <proog> how?
[14:55:00] <jamesd> google solaris jumpstart
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[14:55:09] <proog> ok
[14:55:31] <quasi> http://soulfood.dk/archives/2006/09/20/T23_43_37/index.html if you're on x86
[14:55:46] <proog> thanks
[14:56:04] <quasi> http://jet.maui.co.uk for more info
[14:56:11] <asyd> ah, my CC to networking-discuss didn't work, sux
[14:56:13] <Berny> hi laca
[14:57:00] <laca> hi Berny
[14:57:10] <laca> good morning all
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[15:03:46] <jteo> laca: morn
[15:04:25] <proog> do i need to be running solaris to do a jumpstart install on another machine?
[15:04:49] <jamesd> yes its much easier that way you can even have it running inside vmware on another box
[15:05:22] <quasi> proog: yeah, otherwise you'll need to do something like: http://www.samag.com/documents/s=9598/sam0504e/
[15:06:36] <proog> ok
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[15:08:14] <proog> one last thing, can i make an already burned solaris dvd back to an iso?
[15:08:56] <quasi> cat /dev/dvd > dvd.iso
[15:09:19] <proog> are you sure that will work?
[15:09:29] <jengelh> it will only copy the Data track.
[15:09:32] <asyd> is networking-discuss moderated ? I add two CC to my post, it works for one, but I can't see my message in networking-discuss
[15:10:22] <proog> what about dd for making the iso image? would that work?
[15:10:39] <quasi> proog: it usually does
[15:11:17] <proog> the cat or dd thing?
[15:11:42] <quasi> asyd: I'd assume they were all either moderated or just silently dropping mails from non-subscribers - otherwise there'd be no end to the spam it would attract
[15:11:47] <quasi> proog: cat
[15:11:52] <asyd> ok
[15:11:54] <proog> ok
[15:12:07] <quasi> proog: dd should probably do the trick as well
[15:12:14] <proog> good
[15:12:58] <quasi> I just always use cat
[15:13:44] <quasi> asyd: just got your mail on [networking-discuss]
[15:14:07] <asyd> yea I repost it
[15:15:25] <trygvis> hmm .. can I get truss to output all the command line arguments when execve() is called?
[15:17:36] <quasi> asyd: wouldn't something like whackamole do the trick as well?
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[15:18:07] <asyd> I don't know this thing :)
[15:20:25] <trygvis> truss -a
[15:20:42] <quasi> asyd: http://www.backhand.org/wackamole/
[15:21:29] <Cyrille> related to spread: http://www.spread.org/apps.html
[15:21:43] <quasi> yeah, using spread
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[15:22:45] <asyd> seem it's not VRRP
[15:24:16] <quasi> no, I didn't say it was - what I asked was if you could use it instead
[15:25:01] <asyd> maybe, but I prefer use standard
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[15:52:50] <Carta> I am trying to connect to the internet using ADSL modem.
[15:52:51] <Carta> I acted according to the Sun PPPoE on Solaris web page
[15:52:51] <Carta> http://www.phildev.net/solaris/spppoe.html
[15:52:51] <Carta> I get the following error after
[15:52:51] <Carta> /etc/init.d/pppd start:
[15:52:51] <Carta> /usr/lib/inet/pppoec: PPPoE operation requires
[15:52:53] <Carta> the use of a tunneling device
[15:52:56] <Carta> I located this error in the kernel source tree:
[15:52:57] <Carta> it is from : check_stdin(void) in pppoe.c
[15:53:16] <Carta> as a result of calling
[15:53:17] <Carta>   strioctl(0, PPPTUN_GDATA, &ptn, 0, sizeof (ptn))
[15:53:24] <Carta> Any idea what  can it ne ?
[15:53:31] <Carta> s / it ne / it be
[15:53:56] <Carta> BTW, it is from /etc/ppp/connect-error log
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[15:54:56] <Carta> and the modem is ADSL modem
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[15:58:47] <Uraeus> hi, silly question, but would a 'standard' USB DVD drive be possible to use as a boot device with a SPARC blade box?
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[16:03:57] <jamesd> not likely...
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[16:07:59] <asyd> very strange, I received a mail from jive about a new post, but I can't see in :)
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[16:17:45] <movement> that would only be strange if it worked properly...
[16:26:27] <Error_404> do colo places usually understand "if i get more traffic than i was expecting, give me another server and bill me at the month's end automagicially"?
[16:30:21] <asyd> got a reply for my project about VRRPd. I'm not sure to understand, a protocol can be RFCised and patented ?
[16:30:37] <asyd> in this case what is the interest of the RFC except write a new daemon and be out of law
[16:35:53] <lplatypus> I guess you could use the RFC to write a daemon, and pay the relevant patent license fees.
[16:36:22] <lplatypus> or move to a country which doesn't allow software patents :-)
[16:38:41] <jteo> time to sync with the hg ON mirror...
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[16:46:42] <oxygene> asyd: the rfc might be created and _afterwards_ the patent holder shows up and reminds the authors of his patent claims
[16:47:03] <asyd> ok
[16:47:23] <oxygene> asyd: back, when it was possible to easily keep patents off-limits for searches, that was particularily interesting for patent holders
[16:48:03] <oxygene> asyd: they fixed it some years ago, but before that you could amend the claim with some minor changes, leading to a reevaluation every few months, until it suited you to actually get the patent
[16:48:49] <asyd> too complex for my little geek brain
[16:49:05] <asyd> so I'm afraid I can't create an Opensolaris project for the vrrp daemon :/
[16:49:06] <dclarke> g'day people
[16:49:19] <dclarke> what is vrrp ?
[16:49:21] <oxygene> asyd: as long as the patent isn't rubber stamped by the patent office, it doesn't show up in the patent database
[16:49:31] <dclarke> virtual really real protocol ?
[16:49:47] <asyd> dclarke: virtual router redundacy protocol
[16:50:00] <dclarke> uh huh
[16:50:04] <dclarke> okay well ..
[16:50:12] <dclarke> in that case .. I never heard of it .. yet
[16:50:41] <asyd> dclarke: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=16132&tstart=0
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[16:51:02] <Error_404> dclarke: don't worry, in 25 years when the patent expires, people might start using it
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[16:51:16] <Error_404> patents protect progress, you see
[16:52:57] <oxygene> 25 years?
[16:53:14] <icon> morning all
[16:53:18] <asyd> well, I used it a lot few years ago with vrrpd
[16:53:31] <Error_404> isn't that the length of  a patent these days?
[16:54:05] <oxygene> Error_404: 17 years iirc
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[16:55:22] <Vanuatoo> How do I subscribe to mailing lists?
[16:58:00] <oxygene> asyd: looked at carp already?
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[17:06:03] <axisys> zone memory cap not available for sol 10 u2. anyone knows if it will be available in next release of sol 10?
[17:06:24] <axisys> i know i can use project to achieve that now
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[17:08:41] <asyd> oxygene: more or less
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[17:16:14] <axisys> Vanuatoo: just send an email to the mailing list address with a -subscribe
[17:17:10] <axisys> Vanuatoo: for example zone-discuss at opensolaris dot org u send an email to zone-discuss-subscribe at opensolaris dot org
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[17:18:00] <Vanuatoo> axisys: thans
[17:18:03] <Vanuatoo> thanks
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[17:44:06] <proog> does solaris have support for the intel pro/wireless 2200 cards? and have anyone tried using an apple mighty mouse with solaris?
[17:44:24] <asyd> not for solaris, but works with opensolaris afaik
[17:44:39] <asyd> oxygene: do you know if there is a carp project which works on Solaris ?
[17:45:03] <mrdeviant> proog, http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/iwi/
[17:46:27] <Cyrille> I'm sure there are several cr... oh wait, you said carp. My mistake ;-)
[17:46:36] <asyd> :)
[17:47:07] <proog> i heard about some new release of solaris (something with 10/6 or the like), is that newer than nevada build 44?
[17:47:29] <richlowe> No.
[17:47:30] <Cyrille> that's a different product.
[17:47:35] <proog> ahh
[17:48:01] <proog> how is it different?
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[17:48:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[17:50:54] <richlowe> proog: http://whacked.net/what_is_opensolaris
[17:51:19] <richlowe> stevel: nice to see the os/blogs being more planet-like, next step, stop trimming the entries. :)
[17:51:37] <stevel> richlowe: yeah i just noticed that myself yesterday.
[17:52:10] * richlowe continues waiting patiently to see if this disk can be ressurected.
[17:52:17] <richlowe> if not, I just lost two weeks of stuff!
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[17:52:37] <mage2> morning
[17:53:03] <asyd> it's incredible, if I make a search on "carp" on the jive, I can see a reply from James Carlson in the result, though, if I click on the result link, I see only my message
[17:53:22] <richlowe> stevel: my justification for not trimming, btw, is that if it's going to default to only the last 30 entries now, there's no reason it can't show entire entries. :)
[17:53:30] <richlowe> since whoevere's doing that doesn't seem to have mentioned it anywhere I can find...
[17:54:11] <richlowe> asyd: lesson of the day, never expect Jive to work properly, because it never does. :)
[17:54:19] <asyd> hehe
[17:54:22] <mage2> in solaris 10. i need some help with drivers
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[17:56:53] <axisys> so any update on zone memory cap?
[18:00:03] <mage2> anyone good with drivers?
[18:00:25] <asyd> well, maybe you're good with drivers, but sure you're not good to ask questions
[18:01:48] <axisys> mage2: irc culture is to ask away.. not ask to ask :-)
[18:01:53] <mage2> yea
[18:02:07] <mage2> sorry
[18:02:12] <mage2> anyway
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[18:02:32] <richlowe> axisys: I'm not sure I've seen much about the memory caps.
[18:02:41] <richlowe> axisys: andrei's cpu-caps stuff is on opensolaris.org.
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[18:02:56] <stevel> richlowe: nit, it's now owned by sasha
[18:03:01] *** stevel changes topic to "ON Hg Mirror Live, please test : http://tinyurl.com/wgrd8 | SXCR: 50, ON build: 51, ON nightly: 20061023"
[18:03:08] <stevel> ON build 51 is up
[18:03:09] <richlowe> stevel: I knew it wasn't andrei, but I didn't know who it was.
[18:03:16] <mage2> im still trying to reinstall the stock bge drivers
[18:03:27] <mage2> I was told there was a SUNWbge package but there isnt
[18:03:28] <richlowe> but since andrei's the one who's sat in #opensolaris talking about it, I don't see any problem making the connection. :)
[18:03:29] <rodrickbrown> someone give me a 1min overview of a binary protocol ala what characteristics define a binary protocol ?
[18:03:32] <mage2> any other ideas?
[18:03:42] <stevel> mage2: yes there is
[18:03:53] <richlowe> stevel: we're a "Community" now!, etc, etc.
[18:03:57] * richlowe mumbles
[18:04:17] <stevel> mumbles? or grumbles? ;-)
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[18:05:45] <axisys> richlowe: cpu cap i am coverd
[18:07:30] <axisys> richlowe: i use FSS for that
[18:07:35] <richlowe> the memory cap stuff is on the little list of things that annoy me because people keep mentioning them, but never in detail, and there's no opensolaris.org project.
[18:07:46] <richlowe> Hm, I don't think there's an osol.org project, anyway.
[18:07:48] <axisys> richlowe: heh
[18:07:52] <richlowe> the VM stuff that keeps being mentioned is annoying me the same way.
[18:08:33] <richlowe> stevel: is opensolaris.org broken?
[18:08:37] <stevel> yes
[18:08:45] <stevel> apparently just happened
[18:08:59] <richlowe> It bloody would have, I started to look for the rm project.
[18:09:05] <richlowe> blame me, if it helps. :)
[18:09:25] <stevel> sure
[18:10:56] <mage2> where would one find that
[18:11:19] <mage2> i could not find SUNWbge and a friend could not find it either
[18:13:36] <stevel> it should be on the installation media
[18:13:41] <stevel> in the Solaris_11/Product/SUNWbge dir
[18:13:45] <mage2> yea
[18:13:50] <mage2> it should be
[18:13:51] <mage2> :)
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[18:14:05] <mage2> but i went through all the cds and never found it
[18:14:14] <stevel> i see it on my DVD media
[18:15:32] <mage2> well why cant i find it
[18:16:08] * mage2 mumbles something about DVD burners
[18:16:11] <asyd> time to drunk lot of beers
[18:16:20] <stevel> what build are you looking at?
[18:16:33] <mage2> 6/06 of solaris 10
[18:16:42] <mage2> i think thats the answer you are looking for
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[18:17:31] <richlowe> stevel: seeing b51 is up, are you going to start dropping snapshot workspaces in the onnv project?
[18:17:40] <richlowe> (which would iirc mirror how things normally work, no?)
[18:17:57] <mrdeviant> mage2, i believe it's on cd 1
[18:18:13] <mage2> I looked there. One min i am looking again
[18:18:14] <stevel> richlowe: that's an interesting idea. i hadn't thought about that
[18:18:24] <stevel> i don't see why not
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[18:21:51] <mage2> I am looking at cd1 /Soaris_10/product and it goes from SUNWbip to SUNWbsr
[18:22:02] <mage2> hehe
[18:22:13] <mage2> and from SUNWaudd to SUNbip
[18:25:51] <stevel> richlowe: website should be working again
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[18:29:06] <mage2> no other ideas?
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[18:35:11] <axisys> the problem w/ proj + rcap is that zone administrator can change it.. hmm
[18:35:25] <gdamore> hi *
[18:35:30] <mage2> mrdeviant do you have a copy on cd or dvd?
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[18:36:00] <mrdeviant> actually, i was looking at my b50 cds
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[18:36:11] <mage2> i dont know what b50 is
[18:36:12] <mage2> eheh
[18:36:16] <mage2> im a n00b
[18:36:19] <mage2> as it were
[18:36:20] <mrdeviant> build 50 of nevada
[18:36:20] <mage2> :)
[18:36:39] <bank> hi gdamore
[18:36:48] <bank> :)
[18:36:58] <mage2> someone else told me it was in SUNWcakr
[18:37:05] <mage2> could that be correct?
[18:38:55] <solaris-user> can smf auto up my offline service ( which became of because miss configuration file ) when I create a configuration file ( on the fly ) i.e. | # svcadm -v enable sendmail ( up and running ) | # mv /etc/mail/sendmail.cf sendmail.miss | # svcs -l sendmail ( sendmail.cf absent )
[18:39:37] <stevel> mage2: yup. that's it
[18:40:00] <mage2> ok so its in there
[18:40:09] <mage2> how would i install those drivers
[18:40:19] <solaris-user> | # svcadm disable sendmail ( sendmail offline ) | # svcadm enable sendmail ( sendmail offline, but true ) | # mv /etc/mail/sendmail.miss sendmail.cf | # svcs -l sendmail ( sendmail.cf enable,but sendmail offline )
[18:40:19] <stevel> pkgadd SUNWcakr :)
[18:40:24] <mage2> preferably with out going insane in the proccess
[18:40:34] <mage2> ok i will try that and be back
[18:40:39] <mage2> dont run away :)
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[18:44:43] <bank> I have got
[18:44:44] <bank> The Alias directive in /etc/apache2/httpd.conf at line 84223 will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier Alias.
[18:45:05] <bank> this occur at several lines. and the apache2 can't start
[18:48:30] <mage2> stevel Im back. I am getting errors when i try to install
[18:48:37] <richlowe> Wow, I think I just beat alanc to a "OpenSolaris is NOT only ON" statement.
[18:48:47] <mage2> pkgadd SUNWcakr.i
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[18:49:33] <bank> What do you mean "NOT only ON"
[18:50:37] <mrdeviant> opensolaris is composed of many consolidations, only one of which is the ON (Operating System/Networking) consolidation
[18:51:54] <richlowe> in that context, it tends to refer to the many (usually internal to Sun) people, who appear to think ON is more important than breathing, when it comes to organization and such.
[18:52:20] <richlowe> alanc: my apologies, you beat me by 3 minutes.
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[18:54:05] <sickness> evening all
[18:54:31] <richlowe> stevel: If the osol-arc workaround could be put in place for arc-discuss I would be very happy.
[18:54:54] <gdamore> ON is the most important consolidation, because without it you couldn't have OpenSolaris or regular Solars.  Traditionally at Sun, schedules and delivery are all driven primarily by ON's needs.
[18:54:54] <bank> community
[18:54:57] <richlowe> stevel: or even better, go find plocher and ask why exactly psarc-ext is forwarding to both now, since that's not what his original statement suggested would happen, nor is it what his reply to you suggested (he never responded to me)
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[19:03:42] <gdamore> anyone else left dumbfounded by the notion that solaris installation team doesn't care about graphical installation on systems less than 512MB ram?
[19:04:01] <sparkleytone> not really
[19:04:10] <sparkleytone> who needs a graphical installation anyway?
[19:04:15] <gdamore> noobs.
[19:04:30] <sparkleytone> honestly, noobs are not headed toward opensolaris
[19:04:31] <gdamore> who purchased a workstation last year from sun, with only 256MB ram.
[19:04:48] <gdamore> (not just noobs, but junior sysadmins, as well.)
[19:04:49] <sparkleytone> lmao...noobs who own sun workstations...
[19:04:56] <sparkleytone> that's what we call a "niche" market
[19:05:00] <digijohn> I own a sun workstation
[19:05:08] <gdamore> my dad owns a sun workstation.  he has never run solaris before.
[19:05:09] <digijohn> But it was free >.>
[19:05:26] <gdamore> (he bought an Ultra 20 because it was nice hardware.  he runs Linux on it)
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[19:07:00] <solaris-user> gdamore : ultra 20 has normal bios?!?!
[19:07:11] <gdamore> yes.
[19:07:22] <solaris-user> .
[19:07:26] <gdamore> its just an Opteron based PC.
[19:07:28] <bank> tell him to upgrade bios :P
[19:07:46] <solaris-user> I know
[19:07:51] <gdamore> why, i have a U20.  what's wrong with the bios?
[19:08:04] <solaris-user> but I hope SUN put sparc prompt on it
[19:08:05] <solaris-user> :)
[19:08:13] <bank> U20 and x2100 will hang at grub blinking cursor when use ZFS
[19:08:13] <solaris-user> I like stop+a commands
[19:08:16] <gdamore> nope.  :-)  you need U25 for that.
[19:08:24] <richlowe> (which is sparc)
[19:08:29] <richlowe> since the Ultra naming now means nothing.
[19:08:47] <mage2> so I got the pkg installed
[19:08:50] <gdamore> That's been true for a while.
[19:08:53] <mage2> it didnt install the bge drivers
[19:08:55] <solaris-user> ultra == sparc ( long time ago ) :)
[19:09:02] <richlowe> gdamore: Ultra* were sparc until the u20 and u40
[19:09:04] <mage2> anyother packages that could have the bge drivers in them?
[19:09:20] <richlowe> gdamore: though the whole ultra3 thing didn't exactly help matters, it's true. :)
[19:09:21] <digijohn> I've got an Ultra 1 here...
[19:09:23] <solaris-user> now means expansive hardware :)
[19:09:24] <gdamore> i'm trying to remember a counter example.
[19:09:32] <solaris-user> digijohn : 2 ultra-30
[19:09:33] <solaris-user> :)
[19:10:03] <stevel> richlowe: i'll put the workaround in place for arc-discuss now (or at least once my DNS starts working)
[19:10:10] <richlowe> stevel: thanks.
[19:10:31] <richlowe> I'm trying to decide whether to follow up again to the ARC thread pointing out the merging PSARC and LSARC causes taxonomy confusion or not.
[19:10:44] <richlowe> (PSARC + bits of LSARC that is)
[19:11:00] <richlowe> since that would make Evolving as-was mean two different things at the same time :)
[19:12:05] <solaris-user> sata is hopswap?!?!?!?!
[19:12:12] <solaris-user> i know in teory can work
[19:12:19] <solaris-user> but you tested?:!!?
[19:12:26] <solaris-user> digijohn
[19:12:35] <digijohn> huh?
[19:12:45] <sickness> it depends, if your driver support that feature, it is hotswap...
[19:12:47] <icon> solaris-user: i have
[19:13:00] <solaris-user> icon : works?!!?
[19:13:09] <icon> solaris-user: depends :)
[19:13:19] <solaris-user> digijohn : sata with hotswap works?!?!?
[19:13:29] <solaris-user> of course with solaris 10
[19:13:30] <icon> solaris-user: you can remove a drive and reinsert it, but for full hotswap, you need a working driver
[19:13:30] <solaris-user> :)
[19:13:41] <solaris-user> icon : Solaris 10
[19:13:47] <solaris-user> works fine?
[19:13:49] <digijohn> solaris-user: What are you talking about? My drive is a SCSI of some sort.
[19:14:00] <icon> solaris-user: havent tested yet, this was under linux i believe.
[19:14:15] <icon> but yes, sata supports hotswap
[19:14:20] <solaris-user> icon : you bougth one SUN to use linux -_-
[19:14:30] <icon> solaris-user: i dont use linux
[19:14:34] <sickness> well if for sata you mean a sata disc connected to a supported sas controller, so maybe yeah ;)
[19:14:39] <icon> but the last time i tested sata hostwap, it was on a linux rig
[19:15:02] <solaris-user> icon : and works???!?!? I wanna test you zfs someday
[19:15:09] <solaris-user> will boy one ultra X86
[19:15:14] <solaris-user> buy
[19:15:21] <solaris-user> I hope
[19:15:25] * icon 's brain hurts
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[19:15:47] <icon> im curious too. im about to throw together a raidz pool on zfs later on this month
[19:15:59] <icon> probably just going to use 3 disks
[19:16:16] <solaris-user> sad is just 2 HD on box
[19:16:17] <icon> keep the fourth small for the base install (ufs)
[19:16:31] <solaris-user> I need one more container for HDS :)
[19:16:32] <sickness> AFAIK the rule of thumb is: if you can see your sata devices with cfgadm, your controller is supported and you will be able to do hotswap, if with cfgadm you don't see sata things, then you are accessing your disks in legacy ata emulation mode, so no working hotswap, even if the hardware *is* hotswappable...
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[19:17:26] <icon> hrmm
[19:18:23] <icon> how does zfs handle disk failure in a senario where slices are used in a raidz pool?
[19:19:14] <solaris-user> I dont know anythink about zfs :( need one great machine to study ) :)
[19:19:41] <sickness> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/6n4htdn2u?a=view
[19:20:58] <solaris-user> will find one storage box for SATA ( external )
[19:21:03] <solaris-user> so I can do my lab
[19:21:04] <solaris-user> :)
[19:21:13] <icon> solaris-user: i put an internal array in my box at home
[19:21:36] <icon> http://arf.ubound.org/~sstallion/images/cruxis/front-open.jpg
[19:22:00] <icon> and
[19:22:02] <icon> http://arf.ubound.org/~sstallion/images/cruxis/front.jpg
[19:22:27] <solaris-user> icon : great could you tell me SN part?
[19:22:36] <icon> solaris-user: one moment
[19:22:44] <solaris-user> will buy one for me today :)
[19:22:51] <icon> theyre tough to find, youll have to dig around
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[19:22:58] <solaris-user> great box :)
[19:23:11] <icon> thanks
[19:23:12] <sickness> icon: is it noisy?
[19:23:21] <icon> it can be
[19:23:29] <icon> with a full loaded disk array, yeah
[19:23:38] <icon> inside:
[19:23:49] <icon> http://arf.ubound.org/~sstallion/images/cruxis/inside.jpg
[19:24:00] <icon> there are a couple of fan modules that clip on to the back when its fully loaded
[19:24:08] <icon> and the 80mm in the back
[19:24:11] <icon> right now, its just using the psu and cpu fans
[19:24:23] <icon> so no, its not bad, but if i add anymore hardware, ill have to add extra cooling
[19:24:30] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/zfshomeserver.jpg <- on the dirth cheap ;P
[19:24:35] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/zfshomeserver.txt
[19:24:38] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/zfshomeserver.png
[19:24:39] <sickness> ;)
[19:25:17] <icon> i think i spent maybe 1200 on that box last year
[19:25:21] <icon> most of the cost was in the array and case
[19:25:41] <sickness> oh I spent like less than 500 :P
[19:25:46] <icon> ;)
[19:25:53] <icon> well, im about to drop maybe another 1000 on it
[19:25:59] <icon> turn on all the fans
[19:26:07] <icon> and hide it in the wiring cloet
[19:26:08] <sickness> cool
[19:26:09] <icon> err closet
[19:26:18] <icon> ill grab a sun ray for the office
[19:26:26] <icon> noise really bothers me
[19:26:41] <sickness> oh, so you can install the sun ray server software to a solaris x86 "whitebox" too?
[19:26:52] <sickness> I used to think that a sun sparc server was needed... like for cluster
[19:27:03] <icon> hrmm i thought x86 was supported
[19:27:07] * icon double checks
[19:27:19] <icon> the hardware is very close to a ultra 20
[19:27:32] <rodrickbrown> when solaris boots will it runall scripts in both rc{2,3}.d run level's ?
[19:27:33] <sickness> I'm a newbie I was only asking =)
[19:27:40] <icon> rodrickbrown: no
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[19:27:48] <icon> sol 10 uses smf
[19:27:54] <rodrickbrown> this isnt 10 :-)
[19:27:58] <rodrickbrown> I ment for previous
[19:28:00] <icon> legacy scripts are still in the old sysv init style which is triggered by smf
[19:28:05] <rodrickbrown> and 10 still uses run level scripts
[19:28:11] <icon> depends on your run levels
[19:28:23] <solaris-user> well will upload now pictures of my machine too :)
[19:28:30] <icon> ie: do you boot to init 3? or are you using 4?
[19:28:34] <rodrickbrown> if I come up in run level 3 will scripts in rc2.d execute ?
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[19:29:26] <solaris-user> rodrickbrown : solaris 10 support legacy runlevel but you can put all you want on smf
[19:29:32] <solaris-user> best way for managemente
[19:29:35] <solaris-user> best way for management
[19:29:38] <rodrickbrown> uhmm
[19:29:45] <rodrickbrown> this has nothing to do with smf etc..
[19:29:48] <rodrickbrown> just a simple question
[19:29:50] <rodrickbrown> if I come up in run level 3 will scripts in rc2.d execute ?
[19:29:57] <solaris-user> yeap
[19:30:00] <icon> rodrickbrown: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/man-cgi?init+1M
[19:30:05] <icon> sol 9 man page on init
[19:30:13] <solaris-user> diference in runlevel 2 and 3 ( NFS support )
[19:31:05] <rodrickbrown> maybe i'm not being clear
[19:31:18] <rodrickbrown> say for example the box boots normal boot.
[19:31:24] <rodrickbrown> it will use rc3.d for sure
[19:31:31] <rodrickbrown> but will it call scripts in rc2.d?
[19:31:40] <icon> rodrickbrown: look at your inittab
[19:31:46] <rodrickbrown> or does rc2.d only get executed when going to run level 2?
[19:32:00] <icon> maybe its too many years on effnet
[19:32:18] <icon> inow: everything you need to know is right there in that file. take a look
[19:32:52] <solaris-user> well all I know is its a diference runlevels with diferents scripts ( but all difer on NFS support )
[19:33:09] <solaris-user> with runs the SAME scripts I dont know but I guess not
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[19:34:44] <solaris-user> differ
[19:38:15] <bank__> does solaris disable HTTPS ?
[19:40:27] <solaris-user> disable HTTPS?
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[19:43:46] <solaris-user> bank__ : apache??
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[19:44:06] <solaris-user> what you wanna with this
[19:44:07] <solaris-user> ?
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[19:53:39] <paxc> how can I register a new nick?!?!
[19:54:03] <Error_404> /msg nickserv help
[19:55:03] <paxc> thx
[19:55:07] <axisys> some reading on zone memory cap: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2006/496/spec-txt/
[19:55:16] <axisys> something that I was querying here earlier
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[19:56:45] <quasi> but not implemented yet
[19:57:33] <axisys> quasi: exactly
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[19:58:18] <axisys> quasi: would be nice for my project
[19:58:58] <axisys> currently I am following Brendan's example of rcaping the system project per zone
[19:59:15] <axisys> problem w/ that is root of a zone can change that
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[20:01:14] <Error_404> axisys: mod3 does that
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[20:01:37] <Error_404> by the way, 64 megs isn't enough rss to run glassfish
[20:02:11] <quasi> Error_404: obviously not - isn't it written in java? ;)
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[20:02:44] <axisys> Error_404: mod3?
[20:04:57] <Error_404> mod3.co.uk
[20:05:10] <Error_404> little webhost company
[20:05:56] <quasi> Error_404: using rcapd or memory capping?
[20:06:11] <Error_404> rcapd
[20:08:14] <quasi> yeah, looking at their product page that seems an acceptable solution
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[20:10:05] <quasi> their /GB price is a bit high if you intend to use the zone for anything
[20:10:05] <mage2> after installing SUNWcakr.i  and usingthe command update_drv now when i boot i  get a error and the system reboots
[20:10:27] <axisys> Error_404: they are using newtask ?
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[20:10:43] <axisys> Error_404: or just system project?
[20:10:50] <axisys> Error_404: or combination
[20:11:56] <Error_404> well, it'd have to be system project
[20:12:05] <axisys> Error_404: k
[20:12:08] <Error_404> since they give you a zone to play i
[20:12:09] <Error_404> in
[20:12:21] <axisys> Error_404: make absolutely sense
[20:12:55] <axisys> how do disable ipfilter on sol 10 u2.. svcadm disable ipfilter followed by ipfstat -io still shows active filters
[20:13:39] <Error_404> yeah, bingo..
[20:13:47] <Error_404> # cat /etc/project
[20:13:48] <Error_404> system:0::::rcap.max-rss=67108864
[20:13:52] <paxc> svcadm disable -s FMRI
[20:14:04] <icon> hrm
[20:14:07] <paxc> FMRI == ipfilter
[20:14:20] <icon> probably a silly zones question
[20:14:25] <axisys> Error_404: yeap
[20:14:40] <Error_404> i would imagine i don't have write permissions on that file, heh
[20:14:42] <icon> but is it possible to have a solaris 10r2 global zone, and a opensol local zone?
[20:14:43] <andersmo> axisys: "ipf -F a" will flush the rules for you.
[20:15:18] <Error_404> no, the kernel's all wrong
[20:15:25] <icon> k i didnt think so
[20:15:50] <icon> i know you can boot/reboot zones, was curious how that was dealt with kernel side
[20:16:01] <delewis> icon: it's still all within the same kernel
[20:16:05] <andersmo> axisys: If you want to completely remove ipf from the interfaces I figure you'd have to comment the relevant entries in /etc/ipf/pfil.ap and replumb the interfaces?
[20:16:11] <icon> roger
[20:16:16] <delewis> now you could probably BFU the userland in a zone (that didn't inherit any filesystems)
[20:16:21] <axisys> andersmo: ipf -F -a worked
[20:16:25] <delewis> (whether or not that would work very well, I doubt it)
[20:16:34] <axisys> andersmo: that is all i needed to disable for a testing
[20:16:36] <icon> hmm
[20:17:04] <icon> has anyone here tried to install oracle on opensol recently?
[20:17:18] <delewis> recently? no, last install I did was on b38, I think.
[20:17:53] <delewis> with b48, though, and SYSV IPC zone resouce controls, Oracle installs in a zone would rock :-)
[20:17:58] <axisys> paxc: what is -s for?
[20:18:07] <delewis> (SYSV IPC zone resouce control was introduced in b48)
[20:18:22] <icon> hrmm last time i tried was around 33 i think
[20:18:24] <icon> died horribly
[20:18:38] <delewis> icon: how so?
[20:18:45] <icon> more on oracles side
[20:18:52] <delewis> (you did tell the installer script to ignore the version and everything, right?)
[20:19:03] <icon> i tried :)
[20:19:12] <icon> after i did that, it would just sit there and max out cpu
[20:19:15] <delewis> icon: it's a simple flag you pass the installer script
[20:19:26] <icon> *nods*
[20:19:37] <icon> which i did
[20:19:39] <paxc> axisys : stop service stance
[20:19:44] <paxc> instance
[20:19:46] <delewis> icon: the re-linking process during the Oracle installer is very memory intensive.
[20:19:47] <icon> i need to give it another shot
[20:19:54] <delewis> if you have less than 1GB of physical memory, you're usually out of luck.
[20:19:59] <icon> well, this was before it even got to the relink part of the install
[20:20:04] <delewis> interesting
[20:20:09] <icon> yeah
[20:20:15] <icon> threw in 10r1 and it went in just fine
[20:20:16] <delewis> you might try using DTrace next time to see what it's up to
[20:20:25] <icon> not a bad idea
[20:20:31] <delewis> (files it's opening, system calls, lock contention, etc.)
[20:21:11] <icon> hrm
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[20:21:29] <agliodbs> hey, I can't find the conference web page
[20:21:31] <icon> still a complete zones newbie, but is it possible to boot a zone with an installation dvd?
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[20:21:44] <icon> or do i need to mount it up and do it old school?
[20:21:53] <delewis> icon: doubtful, as the zone configuration files are on the root slice.
[20:21:57] <Error_404> i think you misunderstand zones
[20:22:01] <delewis> and those are necessary in order to boot the zone
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[20:22:28] <icon> i understand zones just fine. the idea of booting/rebooting a zone is peculiar to me, it was just a question of curiosity
[20:22:59] <Error_404> zone's aren't virtual machines
[20:23:08] <icon> theyre virtual servers
[20:23:15] <Error_404> they're a sort of superset of chroot jails
[20:23:15] <icon> soft partitioning
[20:23:17] <delewis> they share the same kernel instance
[20:23:20] <paxc> its the most important ( zones are not VM )
[20:23:23] <icon> *nod*
[20:23:26] <delewis> icon: not really even that.
[20:23:37] <delewis> soft partitioning usually implies they're running separate kernels (in software)
[20:23:44] <delewis> think Xen
[20:23:47] <delewis> Xen != zones, though.
[20:23:53] <icon> xen is more of a hypervisor than anything
[20:23:59] <delewis> right
[20:24:13] <icon> Error_404: chroot++ is pretty accurate
[20:24:30] <agliodbs> opensolaris conference?  anyone?
[20:24:32] <delewis> zones are a very, very soft form of partitioning.
[20:24:46] <delewis> (look how much resource control can be done from the global zone)
[20:24:52] <Error_404> don't think xen... xen is a virtual machine of sorts
[20:25:05] <alanc> agliodbs: they sent an annoucnement to the opensolaris-announce list a while ago - check the archives of it on opensoalris.org
[20:25:11] <icon> how do zones affect smf?
[20:25:22] <icon> lets say for example i have 2 partitions of separate installs
[20:25:42] <agliodbs> alanc: seems odd that there's nothing up at opensolaris.org
[20:25:43] <icon> each zone has to have a different address/host bound to it, right?
[20:25:56] <paxc> icon : you will have smf controllers for each zones
[20:26:06] <delewis> icon: yes
[20:26:07] <alanc> it took some pushing to get the people organizing the conference to even tell the opensolaris community they were doing it
[20:26:11] <icon> okay
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[20:26:23] <mage2> hm
[20:26:24] <delewis> (you're basically assigning an interface alias to each zone)
[20:26:26] <alanc> they're still rather disconnected from the community in general
[20:26:33] <delewis> that's how the global zone sees it, anyway.
[20:26:36] <icon> so when hosts are bound to the local zone, they global wont clobber them in the case where a service listens to all interfaces?
[20:26:47] <delewis> icon: no
[20:26:50] <paxc> local zone no
[20:26:52] <delewis> think of it just as an interface alias
[20:26:55] <paxc> global can
[20:26:58] <agliodbs> alanc: is this going to be a disaster?
[20:26:59] <delewis> in the global zone, which is exactly what it is
[20:27:18] <alanc> if you go back a few weeks in the program-team archives you can find my mail asking "Why has no one told us there's going to be a conference?"
[20:27:37] <alanc> at which point they started actually mailing opensolaris.org lists about it
[20:27:43] <agliodbs> alanc: I have to weigh this against other conferences, I don't want to give up a conference in india if there are going to be 15 people at the conference
[20:28:05] <alanc> I have no idea, but my hopes aren't high for success
[20:28:12] <alanc> I'm not planning on going
[20:28:19] <paxc> hey I wanna a conference in Brazil :)
[20:28:32] <agliodbs> paxc: Sun Tech Days Sao Paolo
[20:28:32] <paxc> only tech days next year
[20:28:36] <agliodbs> paxc: and FISL
[20:28:37] * gdamore wants one in southern california. :-)
[20:28:38] <paxc> will be there :)
[20:28:39] <alanc> unfortunately, they'll probably equate failure of opensolaris conference to failure of opensolaris, not failure of organizers
[20:28:49] <agliodbs> paxc: I should see you there, then
[20:29:04] <paxc> agliodbs : you are from BR?
[20:29:08] <alanc> Conference at gdamore's house!
[20:29:22] <agliodbs> alanc: so, pull it then.  Surely there's a governing council who can veto them using the name
[20:29:27] <agliodbs> paxc: no, US
[20:29:31] <agliodbs> paxc: but I love Brazil
[20:29:38] <agliodbs> paxc: you guys have the *best* food
[20:29:42] <paxc> :) we will meet there :)
[20:29:45] <alanc> I think that would be the CAB
[20:29:52] <paxc> agliodbs : churrasco :) feijoada
[20:29:53] <paxc> lol
[20:29:54] <gdamore> alanc: cool.  i'll even turn on the heat for the pool. :-)
[20:29:55] <paxc> :)
[20:29:59] <icon> alright, one last question. any nasty suprises with using zfs pools to store zone roots?
[20:30:08] <agliodbs> paxc: brazillian pizza
[20:30:17] <paxc> great too :)
[20:30:39] * gdamore thinks ~nobody lives or works near him -- his neighbors probably think he is a hermit. :-)
[20:30:54] <paxc> well when you meet we are all go dinner :)
[20:30:55] <alanc> the conference announce is midway down http://www.opensolaris.org/os/announcements/?monthYear=October+2006
[20:31:10] <paxc> with opensolaris-br dudes
[20:31:28] <alanc> our x86 video driver guys are in SoCal - their office is now in El Segundo since they finally closed the old Interactive Unix building
[20:31:59] <gdamore> yeah.  they are ~2 hour drive from me.
[20:32:17] <agliodbs> alanc: ok, this is probably going to get bumped off my schedule though
[20:32:34] <agliodbs> it's hard to allocate scarce travel funds to a conference that doesn't even have a web page
[20:32:39] <gdamore> i think the dev con is doomed.  there was almost no coordination.
[20:32:45] <agliodbs> this looks likely to be another OpenDBCon
[20:32:47] <alanc> heh - they complained I didn't come visit last time I was down visiting my inlaws in Hemet since I didn't want to make the 2 hour drive in just to say high
[20:32:51] <richlowe> since "OpenSolaris" is trademarked, I assume they already got approval to use the name.
[20:32:55] <gdamore> a href="http://www.osdevcon.org/cfp.html">http://www.osdevcon.org/cfp.html
[20:33:06] <gdamore> (wow, that URL pasted weird)
[20:33:29] <alanc> err, say hi
[20:33:50] <gdamore> i wonder what papers they have received so far?
[20:33:52] <Error_404> icon: no, zfs zone roots works fine
[20:34:08] <richlowe> Error_404: no, they don't.
[20:34:11] <richlowe> Error_404: they're not upgradable.
[20:34:18] <Error_404> all my zones are part of my zpool
[20:34:22] <alanc> though they have added Rich & Casper to the program committee since I originally complained they had no one who had anything to do with OpenSolaris on it
[20:34:36] <richlowe> Install doesn't know about zfs, so zone's rooted on zfs won't upgrade.
[20:34:44] <richlowe> unless they project I forget the name of to fix that went back?
[20:34:48] <gdamore> i see that.  i recall that  I think I pointed this conference out to you.  it was in a sidebar on slashdot about a month ago
[20:34:54] <icon> which is why global zones stay in ufs and local zones are in zfs...
[20:35:09] <richlowe> icon: Install upgrades zones...
[20:35:11] <alanc> yeah - you did, and I then asked the program-team if any of them had heard about it
[20:35:19] <richlowe> except it doesn't, if it can't mount/find the zone root.
[20:35:33] <alanc> apparently, they'd only been talking to marketing people who don't understand community involvement
[20:36:06] <gdamore> yeah.  it is possible i could have got permission to go and present, if they had done some more up front work to make this visible
[20:36:22] <gdamore> right now, i don't think anyone at my company believes it is meaningful.  and i'm inclined to agree.
[20:36:24] <paxc> "community involvement" "marketing people" sounds like brazil problem :)
[20:36:55] <agliodbs> paxc: how so?
[20:38:11] * delewis applauds gdamore for bring up the current JDS situation, and the hole that will be present when CDE is dropped, as far as a minimal graphics environment is concerned.
[20:38:12] <paxc> well we does not have any "marketing" for opensolaris ( like conferences, local ones such universities ) and we does not have one solid comunity
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[20:38:16] <paxc> :)
[20:38:19] <delewis> bringing*
[20:38:36] <richlowe> alanc: if a few MPK people go, and the UK sun folk, and the european non-sun folk, it could at least somewhat work.
[20:39:19] <richlowe> but I'm not even sure what their goal is, currently.
[20:40:06] <gdamore> delewis: thanks.  please support me on the lists, where it can be seen publically.  they have to believe its a real issue, or they'll just ignore me. :-)
[20:40:15] <delewis> gdamore: indeed.
[20:40:47] <richlowe> and to be frank, I'd expect more useful people attend SVOSUG than would attend it.
[20:41:30] <agliodbs> alanc, richlowe: who's running the conference?  The German user group, or someone else?
[20:41:44] <alanc> "German Unix User Group"
[20:41:55] <richlowe> that may just be a location thing, though, I guess.
[20:42:06] <alanc> sounds like an outside party trying to get involved, not even a local opensolaris-specific user group
[20:42:10] <richlowe> but I've been tempted to try and make it to SVOSUG, the conference doesn't tempt me at all :)
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[20:44:42] <agliodbs> well, my question is where am I going to be able to better promote PostgreSQL
[20:44:51] <agliodbs> osdevcon, or Tech Days in India?
[20:45:08] <agliodbs> it's sounding like Tech Days in India ...
[20:45:24] <alanc> that's what I'd say too
[20:45:57] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away
[20:47:28] <agliodbs> darn, I'd rather go to Berlin.  I can get a direct flight there.
[20:47:40] <agliodbs> And I know people in Berlin ;-)
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[20:56:58] <Carta> I am asking again what I asked about 2 hours ago: maybe someone can help:
[20:56:59] <Carta> I am trying to connect to the internet using ADSL modem.
[20:57:00] <Carta> I acted according to the Sun PPPoE on Solaris web page
[20:57:00] <Carta> http://www.phildev.net/solaris/spppoe.html
[20:57:00] <Carta> I get the following error after
[20:57:00] <Carta> /etc/init.d/pppd start:
[20:57:01] <Carta> /usr/lib/inet/pppoec: PPPoE operation requires
[20:57:03] <Carta> the use of a tunneling device
[20:57:06] <Carta> I located this error in the kernel source tree:
[20:57:07] <Carta> it is from : check_stdin(void) in pppoe.c
[20:57:10] <Carta> as a result of calling
[20:57:11] <Carta>   strioctl(0, PPPTUN_GDATA, &ptn, 0, sizeof (ptn))
[20:57:13] <Carta> I made sure that sppptun query returns the right results:
[20:57:16] <Carta> nge0:pppoe
[20:57:17] <Carta> nge0:pppoed
[20:57:22] <Carta> Any idea what can it be?
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[21:01:20] <gdamore> OMG.  I just made the mistake of starting JDS/Gnome 2.14 on a USIIi (360MHz) system.  It is slow.  Just waiting for menus to draw is pretty bad.
[21:01:45] <Auralis> hehehe, its not much faster on a dual 750 either
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[21:02:49] <Error_404> hmm... northern canada is cold
[21:03:04] <paxc> brazil is hot :)
[21:03:30] <Error_404> on the plus side, i don't need to worry about the effects of heat on computer equipment so much
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[21:04:08] <gdamore> heh.  i know a NetBSD user who runs old computer equipment in CA just _because_ it generates a lot of heat. :-)
[21:04:09] <paxc> all our computers stay on cold place :) we does not need to worry about too :)
[21:04:26] <paxc> plus we can go to beach :)
[21:04:32] <paxc> and see asses around :)
[21:04:35] <paxc> lol
[21:04:38] <Error_404> gdamore: kinna an expensive way to heat a house
[21:04:52] <gdamore> yeah, he's using sun3's as space heaters. :-)
[21:05:06] <Error_404> though if i could open a datacentre in my livingroom, i'd do it
[21:05:07] <gdamore> but they also act as his DHCP, router, etc. :-)
[21:05:10] <Error_404> get other people to pay for the bill
[21:05:10] <gisburn> Error_404: not if the university pays the bill...
[21:05:26] <gisburn> Error_404: remeber CERN's power usage.
[21:06:05] * gisburn is away for 10mins
[21:06:13] <Error_404> my school has it's own generator, but i don't live there
[21:06:57] <paxc> gdamore : but you pay 100 US for one ultra-30 and I pay like 1K US thats a ruge good diference
[21:07:24] <gdamore> heh.
[21:08:06] * gdamore wishes there was a mercurial package for S10 in blastwave, because his desktop is still running S10 and not SNV.
[21:09:41] <gdamore> hmm... i'm running out of disk space.  i might not have room for a full hg clone of ON.
[21:10:00] <richlowe> gdamore: it's not so big.
[21:10:14] <richlowe> 437M-ish, unbuilt.
[21:10:36] <gdamore> it should fit then.  I only have ~2G free.
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[21:16:39] <_william_> hi all
[21:17:16] <gdamore> delewis: thanks.  hopefully someone is listening. :-)
[21:17:31] <twincest> the Intel C/C++ compiler for IA-32 has a feature for hyper-threading CPUs called SSP, where it execute a subset of the program in a separate thread to force pre-fetching of memory and reduce cache misses
[21:17:36] <twincest> could this be used on T1 CPUs as well?
[21:19:32] <Auralis> what part of IA32 is unclear?
[21:19:44] <twincest> i don't see anything specific to ia-32
[21:19:56] <Auralis> twincest:  the Intel C/C++ compiler for IA-32 ....
[21:19:58] <twincest> the T1 has similar multithreading to HTT, it's just better
[21:20:09] <Auralis> the T1 is not a ia32
[21:20:14] <twincest> Auralis: obviously the featuer would have to be added to a SPARC compiler
[21:20:18] <twincest> i am quite aware that it's not
[21:20:50] <Auralis> sun studio 11 and the sun code generator for gcc both have auto parallisation
[21:21:08] <twincest> the intel compiler does auto parallisation as well, this is something else
[21:21:19] <twincest> it doesn't actually do anything in the other thread, it just causes memory fetches
[21:21:28] * gdamore wonders if it is any good.  auto parallelization seems kind of like black magic for C programs.
[21:22:07] <gdamore> that sounds like a hack to use threads to improve single threaded performance, at the cost to other programs.
[21:22:49] <gdamore> (I.e. grabbing cache entries before you need them, which might be useful for other programs.)
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[21:23:54] <icon> gdamore: using some like a fss, how would that hurt other programs?
[21:24:44] <twincest> presumably it'd reduce their cache hits
[21:26:55] <icon> and if those programs would be parallelized too?
[21:29:07] <twincest> then they would both affect other programs that aren't doing it
[21:29:47] * gisburn looks at gdamore
[21:29:52] * gisburn stares at gdamore
[21:30:07] * gisburn fires a firey look at gdamore
[21:30:16] * gisburn stares harder
[21:30:21] <gisburn> gdamore: Hi! :-)
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[21:37:42] <gdamore> yes?
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[21:38:21] <gdamore> sorry, i was drafting a reply to Dave Miner's graphical install, but I started to get too upset, and decided not to reply
[21:38:28] <gdamore> I think he _Just Does Not Get It_
[21:38:43] <richlowe> link?
[21:39:06] <gdamore> next week SunInstall will require 4GB RAM, 2GHz processors.  i shudder to think what it will require the following week.
[21:39:14] <gisburn> gdamore: who again was david miner ?
[21:39:27] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
[21:39:28] <richlowe> gdamore: or do you mean the initial Caiman thing?
[21:39:33] <gdamore> sun install guy, saying they were basically ditching suninstall for a live dvd thing
[21:39:58] <twincest> i thought there already was a graphical install
[21:40:07] <delewis> twincest: there is
[21:40:10] <delewis> but it doesn't use JDS
[21:40:12] <delewis> :-)
[21:40:15] <twincest> oh the horror
[21:40:18] <gdamore> and it isn't a full Gnome thing.
[21:40:27] * delewis recalls the pre-Solaris 7 installs that used OpenWindows
[21:40:42] * andersmo mumbles something about screw the bling, make it faster... =)
[21:40:43] <gdamore> it worked pretty well.  then they rewrote it in Java.
[21:40:43] <delewis> we go from OpenWindows, to CDE, to JDS.
[21:40:44] <twincest> the openwindows one was the last one i used that actually worked
[21:40:47] <delewis> talk about exponential bloatedness.
[21:40:50] <twincest> (fairly sure S7 had it)
[21:40:59] <gdamore> it did.
[21:41:09] <richlowe> given that the ubuntu installer is also a live gnome environment.
[21:41:10] <delewis> Solaris 8 was when they introduced the bloat
[21:41:15] <twincest> the new one has never ever worked for me on any system i've used
[21:41:16] <delewis> or where the bloat initially started
[21:41:20] <gdamore> S8 introduced this whole new installer thing, that was brain damaged (a browser based install)
[21:41:22] * delewis recalls the first CD of the media kit
[21:41:26] <delewis> which was basically useless.
[21:41:28] <richlowe> and has done pretty well on modest machines I've tried, I suspect you may want to *see* how this works, rather than guess.
[21:41:35] <icon> haha
[21:41:40] <richlowe> we all know it will suck on a blade100.
[21:41:43] <richlowe> but *everything* sucks on a blade100
[21:41:45] <richlowe> that's not fair ;)
[21:41:50] <icon> oh come on, netscape-in-the-installer was great!
[21:41:52] <gdamore> the new one works pretty well for me.  but i hate having to have 512MB RAM just to get a graphical installation
[21:42:19] <delewis> indeed, but still I think having only one desktop environment is dangerous.
[21:42:26] <richlowe> gdamore: I think that's more a miniroot snafu, than the fact there's graphicallness.
[21:42:39] <oxygene> gdamore: that's mostly the fault of grub not providing filesystem services to the client
[21:42:40] <richlowe> gdamore: I think you'd be better comparing to belenix or something, than the current installer's requirements.
[21:42:41] <delewis> when was the last time Solaris only had *one* desktop environment around?
[21:42:55] <richlowe> ... or am I the only one still talking about install?
[21:42:58] * richlowe is kinda slow today
[21:43:00] <Auralis> and if they would have sticked with the old graphical installer it would still work in 64mb ram ....
[21:43:06] <oxygene> delewis: I could add gnustep to the mix, if so desired
[21:43:13] <gdamore> exactly.  but now they are using that as an excuse to make all systems require 512MB just to install the software using an X based installation
[21:43:24] <gdamore> Auralis++
[21:43:34] <hile_> I agree wtih auralis as well
[21:43:43] <Auralis> plus the old installer was significantly faster
[21:43:44] <twincest> gdamore: you need 256M even with a _text_ install
[21:43:47] * gdamore is very unhappy with the idea that bloat is unavoidable.
[21:43:53] <richlowe> gdamore: where are you getting the ram requirement from?
[21:44:07] <hile_> Then again, I only jumpstart my machines
[21:44:10] <oxygene> twincest: it still loads the whole ramdisk
[21:44:13] <richlowe> twincest: that *should* come down, if they do things sanely.
[21:44:14] <gdamore> Dave Minor from the Sun Install group, saying they have no interest in a lightweight graphics environment
[21:44:19] <richlowe> twincest: many many things could come out of the install miniroot, for a start.
[21:44:24] <Auralis> the installer bloat is clearly avoidable, simply don't ue a installer written in java will do wonders
[21:44:25] <twincest> oxy: it's ridiculous whatever the reason is
[21:45:07] <richlowe> gdamore: is this on desktop-discuss?
[21:45:08] <delewis> I'm also questioning the installer's maintainability -- it seems like it takes forever to get changes integrated into it.
[21:45:15] * delewis wonders when ZFS support will be integrated
[21:45:28] <gdamore> I understand why use Java.  Hell, I can live with that.  But the current plan is to use a Live DVD that lets the user do a full demonstration of all of Gnome while they are installing the OS.  Insane.
[21:45:44] <delewis> gdamore: can you say "Ubuntu?"
[21:45:45] <Auralis> WTF?
[21:45:53] <richlowe> I say again, other OSes *DO* that, and it's not as bad as you're expecting.
[21:46:11] <richlowe> If you want to see how such things fly, boot bellenix, see how it goes.
[21:46:12] <gdamore> yes, but this is going to incur a _huge_ memory requirement.
[21:46:17] <gisburn> richlowe: yast can install with less than 128MB
[21:46:20] <richlowe> (though I forget what that defaults to, however)
[21:46:20] <Auralis> thats so retarded, gnome crashes and your install is fucked, very bright idea
[21:46:32] <gisburn> Yeah.
[21:46:33] * oxygene likes the beos approach, having a bootable OS on the disk, with some "installer" app that just copies the stuff to disk without any unpacking necessary
[21:46:56] <gisburn> Maybe we should all organize a anti-"David Miner" protest demo in front of his office!
[21:46:58] <gisburn> :-)
[21:47:31] <gdamore> i mean, i don't mind having the suninstall app optionally run as part of a full live-desktop, but give me at least the _option_ of a lightweight environment so I don't have to use the text installer on a machine i bought last week.
[21:47:39] <gisburn> oxygene: that will not work with solaris - too much stuff which will not fit into one DVD when unpacked.
[21:47:46] <elektronkind> that's called jumpstart
[21:47:51] <Auralis> why not do the MS thing and make the installer just copy a frelling diskimage to the target hdd :)
[21:48:10] <twincest> gis: yeah, they might have to drop ksh93 from the installer...
[21:48:24] * gisburn kicks twincest !
[21:48:25] <gdamore> rotfl
[21:48:32] <gisburn> jamesd: please kick twincest !
[21:48:40] <gisburn> KICK HIM NOW!! xx@@@!!
[21:48:43] <oxygene> gisburn: might be a good reason for slightly more efficient programming ;)
[21:48:52] *** twincest was kicked by jamesd (jamesd)
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[21:48:59] <twincest> ;-D
[21:49:06] <gisburn> jamesd: thanks! :-)
[21:49:29] <gisburn> oxygene: erm, ksh93 code is usually smaller and more efficient than bourne shell scripts
[21:49:52] <gisburn> oxygene: and it saves the need to run /usr/bin/bc&co.
[21:50:36] <delewis> not dc, though :-)
[21:50:43] <delewis> I've *got* to have my stack-based calculator.
[21:50:48] <oxygene> gisburn: uh, did I mention ksh93? I don't think so
[21:50:52] <delewis> otherwise, it feels like I'm committing a very deep evil.
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[22:07:04] * Error_404 deletes ksh93 from his system just to annoy delewis
[22:07:09] <mage2> what are lomepages?
[22:08:01] <mage2> after i installed that pkg i get a kernel panic on boot and right before it reboots i get a lomepages variable not defined in "kernel"
[22:11:42] <mage2> the pkg i installed was SUNWcakr
[22:12:26] * gdamore doesn't have ksh93 on his system, and doesn't care whether it annoys gisburn or not.
[22:13:14] * gisburn gets rabies
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[22:17:33] <terrormonster> alanc: any idea why http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6484637 is locked ?
[22:18:48] <alanc> only reason I can see is that it's assigned to solaris_install category - not sure those are published on opensolaris.org since they haven't opened that code yet
[22:18:59] <myrkraverk> can someone here help me fix my issue: ID 801953 kern.warning] WARNING: pci8086,1000 - e1000g[0] : could not identify hardware
[22:19:00] <myrkraverk> ?
[22:19:21] <myrkraverk> I'd like to "just fix it" istead of opening yet another bug
[22:19:28] <mage2> heh
[22:19:46] <myrkraverk> it's very similar to http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6431317
[22:20:09] <myrkraverk> so I guess it may just be a driver alias somewhere
[22:20:31] <richlowe> alanc: you can file into consolidation/{install,admin-install}, but not see any of the install categories beyond pkg*, I think.
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[22:21:35] <alanc> 6431317 mentions both updating driver aliases for some cards and getting new code from intel for others
[22:23:26] <mage2> what is the best opensolaris distro to start with ?
[22:23:33] <mage2> on a blade
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[22:24:00] <Auralis> sxcr
[22:24:19] <myrkraverk> alanc: but e1000g is already aliased to 8086,1000 - can the 8086,27d6 (which it seems to be attached to) be interfering?
[22:24:44] <alanc> I don't know
[22:25:11] <alanc> have to find someone who understands network drivers better than I do
[22:25:22] <myrkraverk> should I open a new bug then? or is there somewhere I can ask?
[22:25:36] <alanc> try network-discuss@opensolaris?
[22:25:47] <terrormonster> glup
[22:25:48] <myrkraverk> I'll try
[22:27:21] <alanc> glup?
[22:27:30] <terrormonster> Grrrowwwwwllll...
[22:27:33] <terrormonster> *glup*
[22:27:38] <terrormonster> HUNGRY!!!!
[22:27:39] <alanc> gulp?
[22:27:54] * terrormonster grabs alanc and swallows him...
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[22:28:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[22:28:20] *** terrormonster was kicked by nrubsig (No maneating in this channel...)
[22:29:38] <zarathustra> lol
[22:29:42] <zarathustra> XDD
[22:31:26] <dwc-> does that go for komodo dragons too?
[22:31:49] <andersmo> /mode +b komodo_dragons
[22:35:00] <_william_> :)
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[23:27:09] <Error_404> hmm.. i wonder where my ant libdir went
[23:28:23] <g4lt-U60> prolly hanging out with your uncle libdir
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[23:39:39] <jengelh> Strangely enough, my kernel module is loaded on boot, and shortly removed afterwards (cmn_err messages show it's being unloaded)
[23:39:46] <jengelh> How come?
[23:40:56] <myrkraverk> erm, how do I mount my brand spanking new usb key (250GB, requires external power)
[23:41:07] <myrkraverk> ?
[23:42:24] <delewis> I would guess, first try attaching it and see if a driver is attached to it
[23:42:48] <delewis> then do a mount -F pcfs <usb device> <target dir> (provided it's formatted with FAT)
[23:43:08] <myrkraverk> delewis: how do I see if a driver is attached?
[23:43:15] <delewis> myrkraverk: check the dmesg output
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[23:43:31] <myrkraverk> delewis: try to remember I've been using solaris since yesterday :P
[23:44:38] <myrkraverk> delewis: nothing seems to appear in dmesg - does that mean I'm screwed?
[23:44:57] <delewis> are you sure your USB ports are enabled in the BIOS?
[23:46:01] <myrkraverk> my usb mouse works
[23:46:11] <delewis> they're probably enabled then
[23:46:20] <delewis> hmm, so you didn't get any dmesg output when you plugged it in?
[23:46:23] <myrkraverk> but nothing I can credit to an usb hdd in there
[23:46:30] <myrkraverk> no
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[23:47:28] <myrkraverk> delewis: any chance from there?
[23:47:53] <delewis> well, I'm basing my experience off of USB storage devices from cameras, which may be a bit off
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[23:48:03] <delewis> it seems volfs can detect USB mass storage devices
[23:48:15] <delewis> what version of Solaris are you running (as vold has recently been killed off)?
[23:48:25] <myrkraverk> excr b50 afaik
[23:48:36] <delewis> ah, yes, vold is dead then
[23:48:38] <delewis> hold on a sec
[23:48:45] <Tpenta> ummm no
[23:48:48] <Tpenta> vold goes in 51
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[23:49:36] <gdamore> wow.  staring at the cardbus pcic.c driver, it contains a lot of "cruft" from Tadpole that shouldn't really be in there -- related to an older model.
[23:50:21] <gdamore> i sort of get the sense that who ever did the merge didn't understand that portion of the code. :-)
[23:51:12] <myrkraverk> gdamore: a NIC driver?
[23:51:47] <gdamore> no, the cardbus nexus.
[23:52:26] <myrkraverk> oh, k - I was hoping you'd fix my issue with e1000g as well ;P
[23:52:38] <gdamore> the code that was in there was glue to talk to our system management daemon (syshwd), and dealt with the fact that on one model, we had an external "Run/Stop" switched connected to the GPIO on the TI 1250 cardbus controller.
[23:52:52] <delewis> myrkraverk: try doing a volcheck and see if it mounts on /rmdisk
[23:52:53] <gdamore> s/switched/switch/
[23:53:20] <delewis> 'volcheck' basically re-detects any devices that are managed by vold (floppy, cdrom, removable media, etc.)
[23:53:38] <gdamore> what's funny is our syshw interface has creeped into ON.  sys/syshw.h.
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[23:54:28] <gdamore> this is stuff that really should be converted to "sysevents", and should never have been included in the merge.
[23:54:39] <myrkraverk> delewis: no media was found
[23:56:26] <delewis> try doing a 'cfgadm' to see if it sees the device as 'configured' on whatever usb port it is on
[23:56:31] <delewis> as root, btw.
[23:56:59] <alanc> gdamore probably knows more about NIC drivers than anyone else here though
[23:56:59] <myrkraverk> (I never got around to create a user, so I'm just root ;)
[23:58:54] <gdamore> alanc: gee, thanks for making _that_ known. :-)
[23:59:05] <myrkraverk> gdamore: ;)
[23:59:15] <delewis> myrkraverk: 'devfsadm' may also be required to create the /dev entry for the device if you attached it after booting
[23:59:22] <myrkraverk> delewis: no, aparently, it only show my mouse ;/
[23:59:39] <alanc> I didn't think it was a secret given http://sol-enet.sourceforge.net/
[23:59:44] <alanc> 8-P
[23:59:55] <gdamore> yeah, well.... not _everyone_ knew. :-)





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