[00:00:09] <libkeiser> hmm. anyone know where i can find out which fujitsu sparcs support hardware counter profiling via collect -h?
[00:00:26] <PPRO> but i think that this is the problem..
[00:00:27] <PPRO> QLogic Fibre Channel Driver v4.15Beta12
[00:01:05] <elektronkind> ah, you're using qlogic's own driver
[00:01:13] <elektronkind> what kind of qlogic card are you using?
[00:01:19] <hile_> no clue.
[00:01:39] <hile_> keiser: I can attempt to ask the fujitsu guys at work tomorrow if I run into them...
[00:01:48] <rookie___> i see something about the pci card, Qlogic qlc firmware 3.3.20 qlc1 is /pci@1,0/1022,7450@2/pci1077,10a@1,1
[00:01:51] <PPRO> qla2300 i have only a messages
[00:02:16] <rookie___> and some similar lines about fp1,fp0 etc.
[00:02:35] <rookie___> does that mean the card drivers are working now??
[00:02:38] <PPRO> QLogic QLA2312 Fibre Channel Host Adapter fcode version 2.00.05 01/29/03
[00:03:18] <bengtf_> rookie___: do you have disks attached ?
[00:03:23] <elektronkind> make sure your SUNWsan (Sun SAN Foundation Suite) patches are up to date
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[00:04:05] <rookie___> not yet
[00:04:34] <PPRO> wait..i check the explorer
[00:04:49] <bengtf> rookie___: should see som online msgs I gues when disks are attaced
[00:04:56] <rookie___> ok
[00:05:01] <rookie___> i'll try
[00:07:04] <PPRO>    PKGINST:  SUNWsan
[00:07:04] <PPRO>       NAME:  SAN Foundation Kit
[00:07:04] <PPRO>   CATEGORY:  system
[00:07:04] <PPRO>       ARCH:  sparc
[00:07:05] <PPRO>    VERSION:  1.0
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[00:09:21] <rbrown> how does one view kernel memory consumption
[00:09:24] <rbrown> prior to 10
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[00:14:15] <gisburn> autopush: ERROR: File /etc/ipf/pfil.ap: could not configure autopush for line
[00:14:21] <gisburn> grimpf
[00:15:15] <elektronkind> gisburn: look at that pfil.ap file
[00:15:26] <elektronkind> gisburn: is there a hme line, and is it uncommented?
[00:15:31] <gisburn> hme 0 .-1 pfil
[00:15:34] <gisburn> er
[00:15:42] <gisburn> hme           0           -1                pfil
[00:15:54] <elektronkind> ok good
[00:16:48] <gisburn> autopush: ERROR: Major/minor already configured.
[00:18:20] <PPRO> elektronkind: the system is SunOS 5.9 Generic 117171-05 May 2004
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[00:20:10] <gisburn> ifconfig hme0 unplumb ; ifconfig hme0 plumb # seems to have fixed the autopush thing
[00:26:34] <gisburn> alanc_away: ping!
[00:26:37] <gisburn> alanc-away: ping!
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[00:29:26] <gisburn> ugh
[00:29:33] <gisburn>  Xsun is started with "nolisten tcp"
[00:29:36] <gisburn> WTF ?
[00:29:57] <rookie___> im trying to eject the cd from cdrom, i tried umount /cdrom/sol_10/ then pressed the cdrom button but nothing happens
[00:30:04] <rookie___> what im doing wrong?
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[00:30:31] <AbeFroman> running volmgt?
[00:30:33] <AbeFroman> try eject
[00:30:42] <Auralis> you type eject and hit enter
[00:31:04] <rookie___> says, no default media avaliable
[00:31:17] <Auralis> eject cdrom
[00:32:02] <elektronkind> gisburn: ah yes
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[00:32:20] <elektronkind> gisburn: a victim of that thingy that went into nevada around build 40
[00:32:22] <rookie___> says, /vol/dev/rdsk/clt0d0/nomedia not present in a drive
[00:32:45] * gisburn wants to strangulate the responsible engineer with terminal and fatal results NOW
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[00:33:02] * elektronkind makes sure he's not standing between gisburn and alanc
[00:33:31] <gisburn> Gman: who or what sets "nolisten tcp" for Xsun ? How can I undo that ?
[00:33:59] <Gman> i'm sure it's part of the secure by default
[00:34:15] <Gman> afaik, some of it is handled in smf
[00:34:16] <gisburn> Gman: I realised that.
[00:34:22] <gisburn> Gman: now can I undo that ?
[00:34:50] <elektronkind> gisburn: http://blogs.sun.com/gbrunett/entry/solaris_secure_by_default_part2
[00:34:59] <elektronkind> check out the table there
[00:35:57] <elektronkind> svccfg -s x11-server setprop options/tcp_listen = true; svcadm restart x11-server
[00:36:00] <elektronkind> that would be my guess
[00:36:32] <Gman> yeah, agrees with Xserver(1)
[00:37:28] * gisburn adds some people to his list of "the world wil benefit when they get throws in a pit filled with komodo dragons"
[00:38:42] <B|nTaRa> does solaris support atheros wifi card ?
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[00:40:07] <Gman> poor gisburn
[00:40:17] <elektronkind> B|nTaRa: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/
[00:40:22] * gisburn waits to spill some blood...
[00:40:27] <gisburn> ... any volunteers ?
[00:40:28] <sommerfeld> i'm using an ath right now
[00:40:39] <Gman> you need to create your own distribution by the sounds of it :)
[00:41:09] <gisburn> s/waits/wants
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[00:49:52] <gisburn> Gman: who wants to create a new distribution ?
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[01:03:59] <Tpenta> b5 non-debug stuff is up
[01:04:08] <Tpenta> b50 that is
[01:04:27] * elektronkind pines for zfs patches
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[01:17:52] <gisburn> ok, I ma getting mad here... someone added by IPv4 address to the CBL (blocking list)
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[02:01:46] <slowhog> which consolidation provides SUNWdbus?
[02:02:03] <movement> slowhog: JDS probably
[02:02:12] <Gman> yeah
[02:02:24] <slowhog> that's what I thought. :-)
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[02:03:41] <alanc> gisburn: pong
[02:04:00] <alanc> (was in a meeting most of the afternoon)
[02:04:20] <slowhog> thanks, does any one know if dbus supports remote host? As far as I remember it does not
[02:05:05] <Gman> nope, don't think it does
[02:07:30] <slowhog> would it be interesting to have remote capability for dbus?
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[02:09:40] <gisburn> slowhog: I am sure all hackers will love to get new remote exploits in solaris.
[02:09:40] <dvorak>  sure, throw in multi-master replication while you're adding features
[02:10:33] <slowhog> gisburn: Security is certainly to be considered.
[02:11:14] <slowhog> JXTA is a set of protocol to enable dynamic self-organized groups to communicate each other
[02:11:33] <alanc> but all remote ports that are not "ssh" are closed by default on Solaris now (as you found with Xsun -nolisten tcp earlier I see), so you'ld have to manually enable remote access if it was added to dbus
[02:12:56] <slowhog> what if a daemon more like a bridge between dbus and JXTA?
[02:13:15] <slowhog> enabled manually through svcadm
[02:13:44] <gisburn> alanc: yes, but it still won't address the issue that the dbus authors treat security as an optional feature.
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[02:14:18] <gtcaz> Hello all.  Does OpenSolaris include an ident server?
[02:14:21] <gisburn> alanc: and the secure by default project buys nothing in reality. there are enougth complains that the nevada machines no longer have working "fingerd" by default.
[02:14:34] <gisburn> (and no, this is no joke)
[02:14:37] <alanc> svcadm enable it
[02:14:41] <gisburn> I know.
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[02:15:00] <gisburn> alanc: Disabling the services by default sounds nice.
[02:15:15] <alanc> or if you really hate Secure-by-Default, run "netservices open" and go back to the old world in one fell swoop
[02:15:22] <gisburn> alanc: on the 2nd thought you have to reenable them and the improvemnet for security is for /dev/null
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[02:16:06] <alanc> you need fingerd, but the vast majority of Solaris customers are far happier without it
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[02:48:37] <boyd> Good greif... Gaim really is awful for IRC isn't it?
[02:48:58] <jengelh> it does the job
[02:49:23] <aliquis> gisburn: I liked when you could finger users on other machines, because then you could tell if they have read the mail you sent :/
[02:49:32] <boyd> If you have about 3 acres of screen to hand out, sure.
[02:49:55] <aliquis> xchat is better than gaim for it, irssi is the best irc client there is
[02:50:24] <boyd> I agree about irssi. Just thought I'd try out gaim on this new install
[02:50:53] <rydis> ZenIRC works quite well, if you don't want to leave Emacs, and don't want this new-fangled ERC thingie. ;)
[02:50:56] <aliquis> colloguy in macos wasn't an awesome experience either
[02:50:56] <aliquis> ;D
[02:51:18] <boyd> aliquis: Really? I quite like it... it's my preferred GUI client
[02:51:29] <jengelh> emacs doing something else than being an editor violates the unix principle and therefore is disqualified
[02:51:30] <aliquis> boyd: can you remove those notice bubbles?
[02:51:50] <boyd> You mean the "your name was mentioned" things?
[02:51:51] <rydis> jengelh: Emacs isn't a unix program, so that's fine by me.
[02:52:02] <jengelh> then, what is emacs?
[02:52:05] <aliquis> since i'm opered up on one irc network it suck when you get lot of bubbles with information which you have to click away
[02:52:07] <boyd> You're right.... Unix is an emacs program :)
[02:52:27] <boyd> aliquis: Ah... hmm... I dunno.
[02:52:30] <aliquis> boyd: the stuff which usually ends up in the status window in mirc and such
[02:52:49] <aliquis> there was some system to make new windows and so on but i never figured out how it worked
[02:52:49] <boyd> I'm not op anywhere so it doesn't really bother me
[02:53:02] <rydis> Emacs is a family of editors/editor substrates; original EMACS came from ITS, most of the influential emacses were on Multics, Lisp Machines, and so on.
[02:53:05] <aliquis> it wouldn't bother me so much if i set my default flags either
[02:53:12] <aliquis> but i didn't had my irssi config there to look for what i usually remove
[02:53:18] <boyd> Yeah, there is a whole rule-based thing
[02:53:39] <boyd> I normally use colloquy behind an irssi proxy
[02:53:56] <aliquis> i was so close to ordering an imac
[02:54:11] <aliquis> but it's a little expensive and my machine works and i have no work so it feelt a little stupid, so i didn't :/
[02:54:17] <aliquis> but i really want a mac of some sort
[02:54:31] <boyd> Mac mini's are cheap...
[02:54:57] <rydis> Macs are kind of nice, except the hardware is sort of ugly, and the GUI is (to me) awful.
[02:55:10] <boyd> ... but apart from that....
[02:55:57] <Error_404> i like the GUI, so *shrug*
[02:56:27] <boyd> Yeah, me too... I'm amazed at how much I *don't* miss focus-follows-mouse on the mac, but I can't live without it on X
[02:56:43] <aliquis> yeah but mac mini got crap gfx
[02:57:03] <aliquis> to bad the macbook got it aswell, but i would think the resolution was a little bit to small anyway
[02:57:04] <boyd> It's all relative
[02:57:04] <Error_404> i've always hated focus-follows-mouse
[02:57:18] <aliquis> i love focus follows mouse
[02:57:22] <Error_404> because it forces me to keep the pointer on the active window
[02:57:26] <aliquis> but not bring window to front when focused
[02:57:31] <Error_404> sometimes i just want the pointer out of the damned way
[02:57:44] <Error_404> & still able to use the windw
[02:57:46] <boyd> I really like the fact that many of my emacs-style bindings work in most mac apps... e.g. ^A for beginning of line
[02:57:49] <Error_404> window
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[02:58:01] <boyd> Error_404: You can have sloppy focus
[02:58:19] <aliquis> mac os x gui is nice, but it can always improve, innovations and functions are awesome, hardware is mediocre at best
[02:58:23] <Error_404> meh, i'm good with click-to-focus
[02:58:31] <boyd> Error_404: Also, I've always thought that decent apps should hide the mouse when you type
[02:58:38] <aliquis> Error_404: in reality i would prefer a cam with eye tracking
[02:58:42] <aliquis> which let me type where i looked
[02:58:54] <boyd> Hell yeah... focus follows eyes is my nirvana
[02:58:58] <aliquis> but until then focus follows mouse is better than clicking :)
[02:59:19] <boyd> My main like for FFM is that I can type in windows that are partially obscured
[02:59:38] <aliquis> sucks with no virtual desktops on mac by default thought
[02:59:46] <aliquis> but that will be fixed with the best ones there is (?) in leopard
[02:59:52] <Error_404> yeah, that one annoys me
[03:00:10] <aliquis> Error_404: you can get it with another application
[03:00:17] <aliquis> quicksilver was sweet to
[03:00:19] <boyd> There are several options for that already
[03:00:34] <aliquis> boyd: yeah but leopard built in one will rock ;)
[03:00:41] <boyd> QS is *so* good I can't describe it... I miss something like that under solaris
[03:00:51] <Error_404> i miss expose.
[03:01:01] <rydis> Focus follows eyes would hurt me. I often write stuff while reading something else.
[03:01:04] <aliquis> you can get expose functions with some window managers in x
[03:01:08] <Error_404> i used quicksilver for a couple days & it just annoyed the piss out of me so i nuked it
[03:01:49] <boyd> On another topic... I am pissed that NVIDIA have decided that my card can't driver my monitor at native res, even though it used to be able to :(
[03:02:24] <boyd> Anyway, I get better perf on solaris from the Xorg driver :-O (except for 3d and animation, but it's way better on 2D)
[03:02:25] <aliquis> i've been using win xp for like half a year because i'm to lazy to install and move all my files over to linux/freebsd
[03:02:38] <clee> rydis: what you need is 'focus-follows-mind'
[03:02:44] <aliquis> and i think solaris is to unresponsive and to much stuff doesn't work to use it as desktop :/
[03:02:57] <boyd> It's fine for me
[03:03:17] <aliquis> would probably be more ok if i did something useful with my time
[03:03:26] <rydis> Yeah, that or some simple emulation thereof which no mis-focus, which is focus follows mouse, with a wm that doesn't mess around with focus on transients and new windows and stuff.
[03:03:29] <boyd> Other than IRC you mean
[03:03:34] <rydis> s/which/with
[03:03:37] <aliquis> yeah, and surf and listen to music
[03:03:38] <aliquis> :D
[03:03:49] <boyd> So you mean it forces productivity :)
[03:03:58] <boyd> That's a feature
[03:04:00] <aliquis> yeah, whatever ;)
[03:04:14] <boyd> Not working for me at the moment :)
[03:04:44] <aliquis> i still want a working sip phone, rhytmbox so i want kde and amarok, i don't like the lag in gui from my hdd (but that might still be my chipsets fault, not solaris) and i would like to have an official package management system with more up to date packages :)
[03:04:55] <aliquis> rhytmbox suck even
[03:04:55] <aliquis> ;D
[03:05:25] <boyd> I get awful lag in my gui from the nvidia driver...
[03:05:37] <aliquis> but on the other side it was probably not meant to be the kick ass desktop os out there
[03:05:39] <aliquis> :)
[03:06:22] <aliquis> after testing zfs and zones i would never use bsd as server instead of solaris thought
[03:09:04] <aliquis> boyd: does safari have tab support?
[03:09:15] <aliquis> i was to lazy to figure out, installed opera instead ;)
[03:09:18] <boyd> Yeah, I think it always did.
[03:09:20] <aliquis> k
[03:09:54] <boyd> I can see how looking for File->New Tab would be harder than downloading and installing a whole other browser
[03:10:17] <aliquis> one thing which amazed me was that when a page had many youtube clips in the actually page they all worked in macos, in windows and i think solaris aswell i always have to reload the page a couple of times to get various ones of them to load enough so you can play them ;)
[03:10:32] <aliquis> boyd: I guess i tried some key + t
[03:10:34] <aliquis> and got no tab
[03:10:35] <aliquis> ;)
[03:10:56] <boyd> then some-key was the wrong key :) CMD-T
[03:11:58] <boyd> I just looked...there is a lot of customisability in those alert bubbles
[03:12:16] 
[03:12:31] <aliquis> but then i installed some real keyboard drivers or whatever and it worked
[03:12:34] <aliquis> so might have tried before that
[03:12:58] <aliquis> ok
[03:13:04] <aliquis> i couldn't find it, guess i suck D:
[03:13:31] <boyd> Colloquy->Preferences->Alerts
[03:14:00] <jengelh> Colloquy Alerts? Is that where the "Boss Key" setting is hidden? :)
[03:14:12] <boyd> Heh
[03:15:39] * boyd fires up synergys under ctrun since it's a little flakey
[03:16:47] * boyd can't believe he's playing with java... but figures that it's OK, since it's in order to use JRuby :)
[03:17:05] <jengelh> just use the plain ruby
[03:17:28] <boyd> I do... I'm interested in some of the Java libs... like swing, e.g.
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[03:23:08] <aliquis> jengelh: boss key in macos is F11 or something
[03:23:15] <aliquis> the one which switches to the desktop ;)
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[04:06:49] <Error_404> hmm... that's odd
[04:07:02] <Error_404> my fork() benchmark won't run on solaris, it just hangs tere
[04:07:03] <Error_404> there
[04:08:16] <Error_404> oh, it just eats up all my resources
[04:09:59] <Error_404> well, good to know a userspace program can forkbomb the machine
[04:11:32] <Error_404> :-/
[04:12:21] <delewis> just limit the number of processes a user can run
[04:12:39] <delewis> you can use projects or ulimit
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[04:18:54] <richlowe> Error_404: ... when have forkbombs *not* been userspace?
[04:19:29] <Error_404> brain tripped over itself... it's dumb that way
[04:19:38] <Error_404>  i meant a user program, as in not superuser
[04:22:59] <Error_404> on the plus side, malloc() in solaris just totally creams malloc() in OS X
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[04:41:20] <Hellaenergy> What is the best all in one System Stats console utility for solaris?
[04:50:13] <delewis> Hellaenergy: prstat, I suppose
[04:50:31] <delewis> but mpstat, vmstat, sar, etc. all can be useful.
[04:50:39] <Hellaenergy> delewis, have you used sysstat?
[04:50:49] <delewis> Hellaenergy: unless it ships with Solaris, no.
[04:50:58] <Hellaenergy> no it is
[04:53:05] <Hellaenergy> Here it is in case anyone cares: http://freshmeat.net/projects/solaris-sysstat/?branch_id=64172&release_id=236817
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[06:08:02] <Capricorn^80> AutoCAD versions are avaiable for solaris ????
[06:11:44] *** halton is now known as haltonAFK
[06:13:59] <gisburn> Capricorn^80: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=autocad+solaris&btnG=Google+Search has too many hits to say "no"
[06:14:26] <gisburn> Capricorn^80: But I assume it will costs you at least an arm, two legs and your firstborn.
[06:14:57] * gisburn would take the firstborn...
[06:15:00] * gisburn is hungry...
[06:15:45] <gisburn> goulash
[06:16:06] <Capricorn^80> not at all
[06:16:29] <Capricorn^80> there is chance that u will get 100 % answer from google every time
[06:16:58] <Capricorn^80> so its good to be here to ask from some expert peoples who are using this solaris from years
[06:18:42] * gisburn still wants the firstborn
[06:20:03] <elektronkind> but you always get the firstborn. it's not fair. it's our turn.
[06:20:29] <gisburn> nah
[06:20:32] <gisburn> my food
[06:20:41] <gisburn> !!!!!!MY FOOD!!!!!!
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[06:22:03] <elektronkind> hello sahafeez's cell phone.
[06:22:15] <sahafeez> ?? cell phone?
[06:22:24] <elektronkind> m810f36d0.tmodns.net
[06:22:35] <elektronkind> are you using your cell phone as a modem or something?
[06:22:37] <sahafeez> in palm desert - on wifi at a hyatt
[06:22:40] <sahafeez> and hello
[06:22:45] <elektronkind> ah
[06:23:12] <elektronkind> I guess tmo hotspots use the same tmodns.net domain as their GPRS clients
[06:23:16] <sahafeez> t-mobile is doing tons of wifi hot spots.
[06:23:18] <sahafeez> yes..
[06:23:42] <sahafeez> hum. i could connect with my bluetooth to tmoble phone...i will look next time
[06:25:34] <sahafeez> so anyway, hello all.
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[08:19:32] <Error_404> computer's a lot quieter after i silenced that drive
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[08:19:48] <Error_404> and i mean *silenced* the drive... permanent likes
[08:19:52] <Error_404> swim with the fishes, see?
[08:20:39] <trygvis> o.O
[08:22:46] <Error_404> in reality i just offlined it, pulled the drive, and threw it in a box
[08:23:13] <trygvis> throw some water in the box with a gold fish and it's close enough
[08:23:17] <Error_404> in 5 years i'll pull it out and laugh at how small it is, wonder what's on it, fail to find a machine that still takes IDE drives, and throw it away
[08:23:18] <andersmo> Indefinite power saving mode.
[08:23:42] <Error_404> at least that's what happened with my 512M drive
[08:24:03] <Error_404> oh, actually i think i made that drive in to an ashtray
[08:24:17] <Error_404> but i couldn't find a machine that read my 40M drive
[08:24:26] <Error_404> & i threw it away as a result
[08:24:53] <trygvis> mind boggling: 40MB .. I just got a 8GB nano :)
[08:25:40] * andersmo remembers desperately squeezing more space from a 60 gb drive with stacker on a 386... that's a long time ago, and I can't say I miss those days a whole lot. =)
[08:26:16] <Error_404> the machine the 40M came from was a knock-off ibm PC XT
[08:27:08] <andersmo> s/60 gb/60 mb/, of course... =)
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[08:57:42] <Error_404> zfs swap for the win!
[08:58:07] <Error_404> actually, more just "swap on a device that doesn't have crap throughput" ftw!
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[09:01:14] <Error_404> i should buy another drive to mirror this one, it appears I  have a lot of important stuff on it
[09:04:52] <trygvis> why would swap over zfs be faster than over ufs?
[09:05:17] <trygvis> I mean, given all the data security stuff I would imagine ufs should be faster
[09:05:43] <Error_404> it's not,  just that my zfs drive is on sata & my other drives are all PATA (my controller is unsupported)
[09:05:59] <Error_404> and more to the point, it's neat that you can do it
[09:06:02] <trygvis> aha
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[09:06:31] <Error_404> quite simply, as well
[09:06:48] <Error_404> no mucking about with format or such, it's the same as any other zfs create
[09:07:25] <jmcp> what's a good name for my new system? I'm thinking of "hottie"
[09:07:40] <Error_404> jmcp: do you have a naming scheme?
[09:07:53] <jmcp> I've been working my way through coffee-related names
[09:07:59] <jmcp> eg espresso, doppio, ....
[09:08:16] <Error_404> my computers are all named after condemned places
[09:08:17] <jmcp> but the u20 I got earlier this year (for work) I called "pieces"
[09:08:35] <Error_404> hades, perdition, chernobyl, gomorra
[09:08:46] <jmcp> missing "sodom" ?
[09:08:55] <Error_404> sodom is totally overdone
[09:09:09] * jmcp snorts
[09:09:16] <Error_404> sodom got a word named after it (sodomy)... i think it's been in the limelight quite enough
[09:09:21] <jmcp> :)
[09:09:47] <trygvis> I usually go for ugly, australian animals
[09:09:54] <trygvis> last one was thylacine
[09:10:05] <jmcp> that's not ugly, just misunderstood
[09:10:09] <Error_404> my filesystems are named after famous ancient greeks ( heraclitus, xenophanes, thales )
[09:11:50] <Error_404> you could name yours after hot chicks... "alba" "hannigan" and so forth
[09:12:32] <jmcp> true
[09:12:37] <trygvis> the local geek club at the uni go for programming language author names
[09:12:40] <jmcp> my beloved might get jealous though
[09:13:56] <Error_404> could be worse... could be my school's network naming scheme
[09:14:09] <Error_404> ugrad = the undergrad server.... grad = the grad student server
[09:14:11] <Error_404> lame.
[09:14:15] <jmcp> boring, too
[09:15:26] <jmcp> got it.
[09:15:27] <jmcp> farnarkle
[09:15:56] <jmcp> :)0
[09:16:26] <Error_404> name them after random ways of connecting
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[09:16:58] <Error_404> "ssh" or "rlogin"
[09:16:59] <andersmo> login servers here are named after felines. tiger, jaguar, leopard, ozelot, lynx, etc. File servers are named after big animals. elephant, mammoth, rhino, bison... =)
[09:17:07] <Error_404> $ ssh telnet
[09:17:22] <Error_404> $ telnet rlogin
[09:17:42] <Error_404> $ zlogin ssh
[09:20:30] <Error_404> mostly just because it'd be funny to watch someone fight with their login serverse
[09:20:34] <Error_404> servers
[09:21:02] <jmcp> that's a good one
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[10:21:41] <kimc> good morning
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[10:34:07] <sickness> how do americans say for 1000$? "a grand"?
[10:35:55] <quasi> $1000 and yes
[10:36:27] <sickness> tnx!
[10:36:28] <sickness> morning all btw :)
[10:36:42] <trygvis> morning sickness
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[10:50:21] <kimc> i've got that Friday feeling :)
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[10:52:15] <quasi> this week has been more or less in Monday mode all week
[10:53:46] <kimc> exactly
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[11:31:51] <PerterB> morning
[11:35:27] <kimc> morning PerterB
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[11:36:49] <PerterB> I don't feel terribly motivated to do any work today
[11:37:11] <g4lt-mordant> good, don't
[11:37:34] <PerterB> that's my current plan
[11:37:36] <kimc> i feel like staying home today.. its tempting
[11:38:41] <kimc> 35 degress here this morning
[11:38:59] <kimc> wind chill 24
[11:39:36] <PerterB> fahrenheit, I assume?
[11:39:43] <kimc> yes
[11:39:51] <kimc> in Detroit
[11:39:52] <PerterB> ouch
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[11:40:40] <PerterB> cold fog cycling in London this morning, but still 7 or 8C... going to have to start thinking about winter clothing again soon though
[11:40:44] <kimc> They've moved the big baseball game up to 4:30 pm from 8:00 due to the wx
[11:41:45] <quasi> 14C and sunny
[11:42:07] <kimc> nice
[11:42:25] <quasi> yeah, I'm not complaining
[11:42:51] <quasi> and if I want it warmer, there's about 35C in the serverroom ;)
[11:45:24] <asyd> hello
[11:45:32] <quasi> hey hey asyd
[11:46:32] <kimc> time to get rolling.. cu all
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[13:19:19] <jteo> hello all.
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[13:59:56] <PerterB> quiet day...
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[14:01:54] <jteo> wanna hear me rant?
[14:01:57] <jteo> ;)
[14:01:58] <PerterB> sure
[14:10:40] <jteo> Sun's marketing campaign has resulted in attracting many people who have no experience with the pain of limited hardware support to try Solaris.
[14:10:57] <jteo> which makes for interesting questions on mailing lists.
[14:11:19] <LeftWing> haha
[14:12:06] <jteo> and when you have people who keep asking the *same* questions on zfs-discuss over and over again.
[14:12:11] <jteo> it's irritating.
[14:12:14] <jteo> end of rant.
[14:12:25] <jteo> (i make no attempt at pretending i'm rational)
[14:16:10] <jteo> also, most people on Slashdot can't spell.
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[14:21:22] <PerterB> ah, that rant
[14:22:17] <PerterB> add to that the people who think that being able to administer Linux through some GUI makes them Unix admins
[14:22:49] <quasi> maybe there's a need for a beginners@ or dummies@ ? ;)
[14:23:08] <PerterB> such people tend to get offended if you call them beginners :)
[14:23:30] <jteo> keeping quiet avoids flamewars.
[14:24:34] <PerterB> and then there's the ones that want point'n'drool package managers with automatic downloading of dependancies
[14:25:18] <quasi> PerterB: the "why doesn't solaris have apt-get" crowd
[14:25:24] <jteo> that's a social/organization problem, not a technical one.
[14:25:45] <PerterB> true
[14:25:51] <janus_man> so, why does solaris have apt-get :-)
[14:26:09] <sstallion> blech
[14:26:18] <sstallion> apt is the spawn of the devil
[14:26:25] <PerterB> actually, I think the problem is that they're evaluating Solaris as a general purpose desktop OS, which frankly isn't its strong point
[14:26:42] <jteo> *precisely*
[14:26:43] <quasi> sstallion: almost as bad as blastwave ;)
[14:26:58] <sstallion> quasi: thats why im the ports guy :)
[14:27:23] <quasi> PerterB: some people are pretending that solaris is because they think that will draw in developers
[14:27:42] <sstallion> well honestly, solaris is pretty close to being acceptable as a desktop os
[14:27:54] <sstallion> i use it that way because well, im a developer
[14:27:59] <sstallion> i also use it as a server os
[14:28:15] <quasi> it is quite outstanding as a server os
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[14:28:56] <PerterB> I'd be quite happy using it as a desktop at work (although I haven't for a few years), but it certainly wouldn't meet my needs at home
[14:29:09] <PerterB> but as you say, as a server OS it's rock solid
[14:29:19] <sstallion> PerterB: it gets me maybe 70% of the way there
[14:29:51] <sstallion> server os is fine provided you dont mind dealing with having to compile maintain bits on your own, which annoys the ever loving piss out of me
[14:30:41] * oxygene got his hands on a bluetooth usb device
[14:30:51] <oxygene> now, let's see how useful libusb really is
[14:30:56] <PerterB> in an enterprise environment, that maintenance is pretty much unavoidable (although sunfreeware helps out a lot)
[14:31:22] <sstallion> agreed, and thats what i am speaking to. generally, turnaround on certain packages is abysmal
[14:31:35] <sstallion> and customization (lets take apache for instance) is horrid
[14:31:51] <sstallion> you end up being pretty well SOL for package support if you need a non 'standard' list of modules
[14:32:17] <sstallion> so most admins end up maintaining their own repositories
[14:33:05] <sstallion> okay, my turn to finishing ranting :)
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[14:50:53] <jamesd_> a blast from the past for the old folgies http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/10/apple-tastic.html
[14:51:21] <sstallion> wow
[14:51:32] <sstallion> its been a while ;)
[14:51:46] <jamesd_> yeah...
[14:53:34] <timeless> hello world
[14:53:41] <timeless> i ran the solaris installer and got a dialog that said
[14:53:45] <timeless> Error
[14:53:45] <timeless> The route could not be detected at this time. If you wish to accept the
[14:53:45] <timeless> settings provided, press'Accept' and autodetection will be set for
[14:53:45] <timeless> reboot, otherwise press 'Cancel' and provide another address.
[14:53:45] <timeless> [ Accept ] [ Cancel ]
[14:53:58] <sstallion> err congrats
[14:54:18] <sstallion> haha
[14:54:47] <twincest> filing bugs is easy, finding out what happened to them is the hard part :)
[14:55:07] <timeless> yeah well, it'll have to wait, my box has an important web server that i want to get back up :(
[14:56:46] <timeless> hrm
[14:57:17] <timeless> was i supposed to tell the installer to do an update install and not a fresh install? all i want is for it to install over /, not repartition my computer :(
[14:57:34] <sstallion> you want an update
[14:57:46] <sstallion> it should ask if you wish to preserve data or not
[14:57:59] * timeless goes back and selects upgrade
[14:58:53] <timeless> btw, thanks for any help you give me, and i'm sorry for the disturbances
[14:59:20] <sstallion> which dist are you installing? 10 update 2?
[14:59:29] <timeless> snv_49 over snv_43
[14:59:32] <sstallion> ahh okay
[14:59:59] <timeless> which was probably installed over snv_41, although i don't remember exactly how i did the 41->43 mgration, it was a while ago :)
[15:00:04] <timeless> and i don't document what i do :(
[15:01:57] <timeless> hrm, the installer video driver seems to have issues w/ cursors moving in and out of windows
[15:02:43] <sstallion> more likely thats an X issue... what vidcard do you have on that box?
[15:03:05] <timeless> dmesg?
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[15:03:20] <sstallion> do you not know off the top of your head?
[15:03:28] <timeless> no, i'm a software guy :)
[15:03:35] <sstallion> so am I :P
[15:03:36] <timeless> and when i run an os including snv the video just works
[15:03:51] <sstallion> details are important when tracking issues
[15:04:07] <sstallion> what kind of a box are you on?
[15:04:19] <timeless> dell xeon
[15:04:29] <sstallion> server class?
[15:04:56] <timeless> it's some sort  of engineering workstation, 2 hyperthreaded processors
[15:05:02] <timeless> it has 2 dvi ports
[15:05:08] <sstallion> most likely a quadro or an ati
[15:05:08] <sickness> hey little problem, if I unmount a zfs filesystem and I remount it back later, how do I share it again via nfs?
[15:05:20] <sstallion> dig through your dmesg
[15:05:22] <sickness> the property is already set, but share doesn't list it, and shareall doesn't reshare it :/
[15:05:32] <sickness> is there a proper way to do it, or should I reboot the entire machine? :(
[15:05:34] <sstallion> those machines can be customized a bit, so theres no way to tell, but my money is on a quadro
[15:05:37] <twincest> sick: did you try just resharing it?
[15:05:42] <sickness> twincest: yeah
[15:06:00] <sickness> twincest: I tryed doing zfs set again but no way
[15:06:11] <twincest> sick: with the share command i mean
[15:06:18] <timeless> a grep for ati/quadro should work?
[15:06:24] <sickness> I also tried to manually put it in /etc/dfs/sharetab and kill -HUP mountd, but no avail
[15:06:39] <sstallion> timeless: i wouldnt. just do a dmesg|more and look through the output, youll find what youre looking for
[15:06:50] <timeless> i didn't find what i was looking for :(
[15:06:57] <sstallion> besides, it would be good for you to get familiar with your dmesg output
[15:07:04] <sickness> twincest: I think the share command would put a line in dfstab, and I don't want this, cause the other zfs filesystems are correctly shared but they are not in dfstab
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[15:07:10] <timeless> heh
[15:07:34] <timeless> hrm
[15:07:38] <twincest> sick: i don't believe it will do that
[15:07:42] <timeless> i don't have my home directory because it's on a zfs thing
[15:07:43] <sickness> lemme try
[15:07:51] <twincest> sick: you're not meant to use it for zfs but then you aren't meant to umount zfs :)
[15:07:54] <timeless> if i had it, i could ssh out
[15:08:09] <sickness> uhm ok
[15:08:14] <sickness> that seemed to do it
[15:08:31] <sickness> twincest: why I am not meant to umount zfs? :)
[15:08:33] <sstallion> timeless: odds are you wont find your card revision in your dmesg... this isnt linux :)
[15:08:40] <twincest> sick: is it a legacy mount?
[15:08:42] <sstallion> take a look at the x output on your box and look at what driver is being used
[15:09:20] <timeless> sstallion: i see the hard drive, ethernet, audio,
[15:09:33] <timeless> what xoutput?
[15:09:40] <sickness> twincest: nope, only set mountpoint
[15:09:52] <sickness> it's not in vfstab
[15:10:00] <sickness> but I wanted to try to unmount and remount it
[15:10:11] <sstallion> timeless: youll need to talk to an install guy, but there should be an x log hanging around somewhere during the install process
[15:10:11] <sickness> I didn't even know how to remount it so I ended doing another zfs set
[15:10:21] <sickness> I don't think that's the better way but it got the job done =)
[15:10:22] <twincest> sick: try 'zfs unmount' then
[15:10:31] <sickness> yeah, maybe that's better...
[15:10:44] <twincest> there's a corresponding 'zfs mount'
[15:10:51] <sickness> oh, yeah...
[15:11:11] <jteo> ...
[15:12:10] * timeless doesn't see it in /tmp :(
[15:12:38] <sstallion> timeless: again, talk to an install guy, but if it is logging, it will be in /var/log
[15:12:51] <timeless> ooh, Xsun.0.log :)
[15:13:58] <timeless> Quadro
[15:14:01] <timeless> you win :)
[15:14:21] <sstallion> which model?
[15:14:42] <sstallion> im running on a 540 and i have yet to see any issues with Xsun or Xorg
[15:14:43] <timeless> it says Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI
[15:14:48] <sstallion> wow
[15:14:57] <sstallion> thats a pretty high powered card
[15:15:10] * timeless shrugs
[15:15:17] <jmcp> does anybody else have snv_49 handy?
[15:15:18] <timeless> the box is mostly well configured
[15:15:23] <sickness> jmcp: me
[15:15:24] <timeless> jmcp: it's installing :)
[15:15:25] <jmcp> if you do, is there a script Tools/add_to_install_server there?
[15:15:27] <sstallion> jmcp: 46 here
[15:15:48] <sickness> oh, I should mount the iso, lemme see...
[15:15:50] <jmcp> sstallion: do you have that script?
[15:15:53] <timeless> sstallion: unfortunately the harddrive is 80gb, and i've filled it a couple of times already
[15:16:16] <sstallion> jmcp: did you mean an install image or an actuall installation?
[15:16:19] <timeless> no
[15:16:22] <timeless> add_install_client
[15:16:27] <timeless> no add_to_install_server
[15:16:29] <jmcp> sstallion: the install media
[15:16:30] <sickness> nope
[15:16:31] <jmcp> timeless: thanks
[15:16:32] <jmcp> damn
[15:16:33] <sickness> only setup_install_server
[15:16:35] <timeless> at least in /cdrom/Solaris_11/Tools
[15:16:37] <sstallion> jmcp: ahh sorry, not in front of me
[15:17:03] <timeless> jmcp: thankfully the media is important to my install process :)
[15:17:17] <jmcp> it is for me too, I'm just trying to setup js and jet
[15:17:24] <jmcp> and I seem to need that script
[15:17:30] <timeless> which reminds me, i need to requisition a bigger hdd
[15:17:37] <timeless> can someone suggest a nice one? :)
[15:18:00] <jmcp> timeless: Seagate 320Gb SATA-II
[15:18:20] <twincest> hmm this is annoying.. gcc/icc and studio use different methods of requiring alignment
[15:18:22] <sstallion> timeless: im partial to hitatchi's and wd's in a pinch
[15:18:41] <timeless> http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=5493 ?
[15:19:04] <asyd> 3
[15:19:05] <asyd> oups
[15:19:25] <timeless> i mostly want something 'big' and available
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[15:19:29] <timeless> jmcp's fits the available
[15:19:30] *** icon is now known as sstallion
[15:19:48] <sstallion> *sigh*
[15:19:55] <timeless> and no, i have no idea what that page says
[15:19:57] <jmcp> timeless: I've got 2 of them :)
[15:20:17] <timeless> are you using zfs mirroring?
[15:20:46] <jmcp> I will do
[15:20:52] <jmcp> just got the new box today
[15:20:54] <twincest> oh i lie, gcc also supports studio's syntax.  yay
[15:20:57] <jmcp> haven't got it setup quite uet
[15:20:58] <jmcp> yet
[15:21:01] <sickness> I've 3 maxtor 320gb sata2 disks
[15:21:05] <sickness> really cheap
[15:21:08] <timeless> i'm sure you'll have yours setup faster than mine
[15:21:21] <timeless> it took me 4 months to try to setup static ip
[15:21:59] <timeless> (it's not that setting it up is hard, it's that you have to contact it and deal w/ downtime and bad links, and allocate time to do it)
[15:22:12] <sickness> I have to go bye...
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[15:28:38] <jmcp> sod this, I'm going to bed
[15:28:39] <jmcp> gnite all
[15:28:44] <timeless> good night
[15:31:16] <twincest> nn
[15:37:19] <Sparcioni> I saw over the net that disabling hw checksum is done thus for bge: echo "set ip:dohwcksum = 0" >>/etc/system
[15:37:22] <Sparcioni> and reboot
[15:37:58] <Sparcioni> question: first, how do I know at all that my nic supports hw checksum and that this feature is active ?
[15:40:30] <Stric> if tcpdump/snoop says checksum error for each package, you have it
[15:42:18] <Sparcioni> running "tcpdump" without any parameters ?
[15:43:29] <Sparcioni> Do you mean checksum error for ip HEADERS ?  should I inspect IP headers ?
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[15:50:21] <timeless> ok, Quadro=nvidia
[15:51:08] <timeless> that makes sense, because i thought people had described this as nvidia
[15:52:59] <timeless> um
[15:53:15] <timeless> /usr/lib/scn/bin/cleanup-scn-base: syntax error at line 34: ';;' unexpected
[15:53:34] <sstallion> quadro is nvidia's line of workstation gl cards
[15:53:52] * timeless wonders why the dvd drive just opened as if asking for a disk
[15:54:27] <timeless> t_optmgmt: System error: Cannot assign requested address
[15:54:44] <timeless> is my system dead? it isn't moving, and i have a few mins before i have to go for the weekend :(
[15:55:05] * timeless goes off to read forum.sun.com
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[15:56:33] <Berny> hello
[15:57:03] <timeless> ok, it gave me a console prompt, i guess i use it?
[15:57:44] <sstallion> timeless: you probably had your install set to eject auotmatically - ive seen it do that on reboot on my opteron box at home too
[15:57:51] <sstallion> timeless: you could always just look at it
[15:58:42] <timeless> yeah i had it set for automatic
[15:59:05] * timeless goes to try to figure out how to change dhcp to static
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[16:06:30] <Sparcioni> any chance that there is somebody around here who know a bit the kernel ip networking code ?
[16:07:30] <Sparcioni> I saw something which is strange and meaybe someone can clear the mystery
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[16:13:04] <timeless> thanks all, snv_49 :)
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[16:14:53] <timeless> fwiw, cursors work fine here, just an installer problem :)
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[16:19:27] <lloy0076> I've just managed to finally install Solaris Community Edition (svn_48) on my machine; I've compiled the "vre" drivers using Sun Studio. If I "ifconfig vfe0 plumb; ifconfig vre0 xxx up; route add default..." I can ping hosts on the Internet and on my LAN. However, for reasons I don't know, Solaris isn't loading the module at boot time and therefore the physical network service startup fails...
[16:20:02] <lloy0076> So, I think I've got a working kernel module for my NIC but I'm not sure how to get it to load if Solaris doesn't auto-recognise it.
[16:20:34] <lloy0076> That was ifconfig vfe0 ... up (not vre0)
[16:21:31] <oxygene> lloy0076: add_drv -i '"pci$vendorid,$deviceid"' vfe
[16:21:50] <lloy0076> Will that make it reappear every reboot?
[16:22:21] <oxygene> that way, the system stores the connection between device id and driver, that way it can figure it out, yes
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[16:26:43] <lloy0076> Using nexentaOS, what'd be the easiest way to find out what pci$vendorid,$deviceid? Or, what might it look like? Is it what prtconf says in verbose mode?
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[16:31:43] <lloy0076> Aha.
[16:32:02] <lloy0076> It seems prtconf -pv is what I'm after - kewl.
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[16:32:09] <lloy0076> oxygene: Thanks for the pointer :)
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[16:45:21] <jteo> morn stevel.
[16:45:27] <stevel> morning
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[16:57:07] <elektronkind> hmm
[16:57:20] <elektronkind> what's a good way to profile calls in a specific kernel module?
[16:57:38] <elektronkind> (using dtrace, of course)
[16:57:58] <jteo> start with @[probename]=count()
[16:58:30] <elektronkind> I guess it matters if the kernel module in question provides probes?
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[16:58:52] <jteo> ie 'fbt:zfs::entry {@[probename]=count()}'
[16:58:58] <jteo> dtrace: description 'fbt:zfs::entry ' matched 1271 probes
[16:59:31] <jteo> oops.
[17:00:33] <jteo> s/probename/probefunc
[17:00:48] <jteo>  bplist_close                                                      2
[17:00:49] <jteo>   bplist_open                                                       2
[17:00:49] <jteo>   bplist_sync                                                       2
[17:00:49] <jteo>   dbuf_add_ref                                                      2
[17:00:49] <jteo>   dbuf_find                                                         2
[17:00:49] <jteo>   dbuf_hash
[17:00:52] <jteo> alright, sorrie.
[17:00:54] <jteo> :(
[17:00:55] <elektronkind> gotcha
[17:01:20] <jteo> then you can do the "track the time spent in functions" trick and aggregate on that
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[17:03:38] <elektronkind> ho boy
[17:04:02] <elektronkind> dtracing the afs module on my server just froze it
[17:04:14] <jteo> it shouldn't
[17:04:25] <Sparcioni> stevel, can I pleasse be given an answer : will the packet filter hooks be in b51 which is to be released on next tuesday? I am waiting for it and very igor to know; it can be seen immediatel by checking if the following file exists: /usr/src/uts/common/sys/eti.h
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[17:04:53] <jteo> elektronkind: wait a while. dtrace will timeout if the system is unresponsive.
[17:05:02] <elektronkind> mkay
[17:05:04] <Sparcioni> sorry !  it is /usr/src/uts/common/sys/neti.h
[17:05:28] <elektronkind> the console seems responsive. my ssh session or any attempts to make a new ssh session don't :/
[17:05:53] <stevel> sparcioni: i don't know, b51 isn't closed yet
[17:06:20] <Sparcioni> so I fear that up until now it is not there...
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[17:27:57] * Symmetria reinstalls with a complete install :p
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[17:29:39] <twincest> symm: i wrote a program to automatically install a package and its dependencies from the CD
[17:29:39] <dho> Wez: ping?
[17:30:12] <Symmetria> heh twincest Im just installing everything :p then will work out what I dont want and delete it *shrug* I just need to make sure I know this system by monday because on monday I plan to install it on a production server
[17:31:17] <Symmetria> heh Im giving myself a weekend to know the system well enough to run production :p this is gonna be a fun weekend I can see it
[17:31:39] <Auralis> a weekend? yes, very fun
[17:32:35] <Symmetria> heh Auralis I was being sarcastic heh, but seriously I have no option, mirror.ac.za is dying under linux
[17:32:39] <Symmetria> and freebsd doesnt support its hardware
[17:33:04] <Symmetria> question btw, does solaris support file systems > 2TB by default or do I have to do something special to enable that
[17:33:04] <delewis> Symmetria: why is it dying under Linux?
[17:33:05] <jteo> load issues?
[17:33:06] <twincest> uhm, you might want a while more than a weekend otherwise it's going to die under solaris too
[17:33:12] <twincest> unless you plan to open a lot of support tickets :)
[17:33:13] <jteo> Symmetria: UFS or ZFS?
[17:33:24] <Symmetria> delewis its dying under linux because of memory leak problems
[17:33:38] <Symmetria> linux + e1000 network cards + adjusted tcp window sizing = death
[17:33:51] <delewis> Symmetria: that's when Solaris' observation tools come in handy :-)
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[17:33:58] <Symmetria> run a linux box at 200mbit/second for more than 2 hours with adjusted window sizing and e1000 network cards and the box will crash and burn
[17:34:10] <twincest> symm: do you have a URL for that?  we have some servers with pro/1000 cards
[17:34:14] <Symmetria> jteo either :p
[17:34:21] <twincest> (although not front-end ones)
[17:34:24] <Symmetria> twincest no, just experience
[17:34:33] <Symmetria> twincest heh I can give you settings to try and reproduce
[17:34:39] <Symmetria> but I managed to make it do the same thing under 4 kernels on 4 boxes
[17:34:48] <jteo> Symmetria: ZFS works out of the box. For UFS, you need it's an option to newfs (newfs inits a UFS fs)
[17:34:56] <PerterB> "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" :)
[17:34:59] <Symmetria> and heh, I cant afford to have mirror.ac.za keep dying, thats the largest opensource mirror on the african continent
[17:35:03] <jteo> buy new NICs?
[17:35:08] <Berny> PerterB: than don't do it!
[17:35:09] <twincest> don't use 1TB UFS filesystems, they suck.  really small inode limit
[17:35:12] <Symmetria> and Im taking heavy shit for it
[17:35:13] <twincest> (unless you're only storing a few files)
[17:35:24] <PerterB> Berny: that was my point...
[17:35:26] <jteo> that would be the cheapest and most expeditious method. as well as the most risk free.
[17:35:27] <delewis> yes, you definitely want ZFS if you're wanting > 1TB
[17:35:32] <Auralis> yeah, put the os on a mirrored ufs and the data on a zfs pool
[17:35:35] <delewis> UFS sucks for such large volumes
[17:35:44] <Symmetria> jteo heh, I cant put more nics in that box, all its PCI-X slots are full with iSCSI HBA cards
[17:35:51] <delewis> prior to ZFS, that's when we coughed up the cash to Veritas for VxVM :-)
[17:35:54] <twincest> the max # of inodes is like 1 million for any fs size
[17:35:57] <Symmetria> ok, I'll stuck ZFS on the arrays
[17:36:01] <twincest> (over 1TB that is)
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[17:36:10] <Symmetria> heh so ZFS will handle ok on the 4TB arrays?
[17:36:21] <jteo> Symmetria: without a doubt.
[17:36:36] <Symmetria> and I presume it wont have any issues with the EM64T xeon cpus either?
[17:36:43] <delewis> Symmetria: of course not
[17:36:45] <Auralis> well, 4TB is abit on the small side, but it will do fine :)
[17:36:51] <delewis> I deployed some EM64T systems last summer for a few clients
[17:36:54] <delewis> *zero* problems.
[17:37:02] <Symmetria> delewis cool
[17:37:05] <twincest> symm: are you using raid 10 or raidz?
[17:37:25] <Symmetria> twincest those are 4TB iSCSI SAN's which are raid-6 based, there are 3 of them
[17:37:33] <Symmetria> and then a single 4 x 400gig RAID-5 in the box
[17:37:34] <twincest> ah okay
[17:37:44] <Symmetria> and a 2 x 400gig stripe set for the boot partition
[17:38:00] <Symmetria> (4TB usable space, 12 x 500gig disks in each one)
[17:38:05] <twincest> striped boot?
[17:38:17] <Symmetria> twincest sorry, mirrored
[17:38:18] <Symmetria> not striped
[17:38:30] <twincest> i'd suggest using a smaller boot partition and make the rest zfs
[17:38:30] * Symmetria is half asleep :p
[17:38:37] <twincest> unless you really need a 400GB / :)
[17:38:59] <Symmetria> twincest *shrug* prefer to keep the boot partition on seperate physical media from anything else
[17:39:14] <Symmetria> so 2 disks mirrored on an LSI controller in the hotswap bays
[17:39:40] <Symmetria> and since all 6 disks in the base machine are 400gig disks, 400gig boot is what it shall be :p
[17:39:52] <quasi> ouch
[17:40:23] <PerterB> gives you space for a very big /var for all the xferlogs
[17:41:22] <Symmetria> dependant on how solaris handles on mirror I will probably also install it on my netflow machine, which is the really big monster
[17:41:48] <Auralis> solaris svm mirrors are realy painless
[17:41:51] <Symmetria> linux doesnt die on that one though with the broadcoms no matter how much I push through it data wise
[17:42:22] <Symmetria> Auralis all the disk raiding etc should be completely invisible to the operating system, its all done in hardware
[17:42:46] <LeftWing> Technically it's still done in software.
[17:43:06] <Symmetria> LeftWing heh, yes, technically but you knwo what I mean :p
[17:43:27] <Symmetria> technically cisco switches use software on their asics for high speed switching as well :p
[17:43:34] <jteo> about the only thing hardware raid buys you is 1) A large price tag 2) assurance that you're dealing with the devil you know
[17:43:59] <g4lt-mordant> jteo, you forgot the massive amounts of antacids and NSAIDS
[17:44:08] <jteo> g4lt-mordant: and support calls!
[17:44:10] * LeftWing is hanging out for SVM Metadb on USB stick support.
[17:44:13] <Symmetria> jteo *shrug* hardware offload raid-5 runs faster as well
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[17:44:32] <jteo> Symmetria: raidz will run faster, and cheaper on an opteron.
[17:44:56] <Symmetria> and in some of those systems they take huge amounts of load, hell, I offload as much as possible onto hardware, running tcp and ip offload cards, iSCSI HBA offloads etc
[17:45:12] <PerterB> LeftWing: Why doesn't it work now? Can't you just put a DOS MBR on there with a Solaris partition and thwap metadbs onto one slice of that?
[17:45:58] <elektronkind> PerterB: it's an issue of on boot, the usb stick isn't detected prior to the kernel looking for a metadb quorum
[17:46:03] <LeftWing> PerterB: In theory you can -- allegedly there are problems though.  I haven't had a change to test it myself.  There are a few blogs about it on blogs.*.* I believe.
[17:46:10] <LeftWing> *chance
[17:46:13] <Symmetria> *shrug* besides which LSI raid controllers arent that pricey
[17:46:14] <PerterB> ah right
[17:46:45] <jteo> ugh. i'm becoming a ZFS zealot.
[17:46:47] <LeftWing> That and, if memory serves, something about not being able to force the USB metadb to be of the less-oft written variety.
[17:46:50] <PerterB> still, if you have mirrored_root_flag set, at least the box should boot
[17:47:01] <LeftWing> Should being the keyword. =)
[17:47:11] <PerterB> um, yeah :)
[17:47:46] * LeftWing sleeps.
[17:47:51] * LeftWing &
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[17:48:50] <elektronkind> LSI cards suck the big one
[17:49:04] <elektronkind> at least their FC card do
[17:49:09] <elektronkind> cards*
[17:49:12] <twincest> we had a lot of issues with an adaptec card here, replaced it with LSI and it was fine
[17:49:44] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, adaptec pretty much passed the chandresekhar limit of suck in hte nineties
[17:50:09] <elektronkind> my main beef with the 7xxx series cards is that A) they seem to fail (for me) too often, and B) there are no leadville drivers for them.
[17:50:15] <elektronkind> hence I stick with qlogic
[17:50:42] <elektronkind> and don't even mention emulex to me :)
[17:51:26] <Symmetria> heh I run qlogic iSCSI HBA cards
[17:52:05] <elektronkind> how are those working for you?
[17:52:23] <elektronkind> using qlogic-provided drivers?
[17:52:37] <Symmetria> very well once I seriously hacked at the linux driver to get it working under any kernel > 2.6.13
[17:52:47] <Symmetria> havent tried it under solaris yet cause IM new to solaris
[17:52:51] <elektronkind> ah ok
[17:53:35] <elektronkind> I've got a sanrad vswitch coming in for a test rig and I'll probably get a iscsi hba to test a long with it, likely one of the qlogics
[17:57:18] <Symmetria> I run my iSCSI HBA's with x-over cables into the SAN's
[17:57:39] <Symmetria> I was originally running them all through a 9000 MTU Cisco 3750G switch but was running low on ports in that rack
[17:58:09] <Symmetria> using Intel / LeftHand iSCSI SAN's which are in reality nothing more than fancy linux boxes with LSI controllers in them as far as I can see
[17:58:49] <elektronkind> LSI/Engenio probably
[17:59:03] <elektronkind> the LSI/Engenio stuff is everywhere
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[18:09:08] <stevel> richlowe: ping
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[18:36:02] <stevel> laca, gman, or anyone on the jds team: ping :)
[18:36:24] <stevel> or alanc for that matter
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[18:37:14] <alanc> stevel: pong
[18:37:32] <alanc> it's a bit early still in NZ for Gman yet
[18:37:54] <stevel> alanc: has anything change in libXft or libfontconfig since 49?  i was running snv_48 quite nicely, but both snv_49 and snv_50 are giving me font issues.  it looks like if i put any font in my ~/.fonts dir, gnome-font-properties segfaults
[18:38:15] <stevel> if i try to do `gnome-font-viewer foo.ttf`, i get a segfault too
[18:38:26] <stevel> core dump claims libXft
[18:38:45] <alanc> yes - fontconfig caught a bug if you use any font whose name starts with a character outside the range A-Za-z
[18:38:56] <alanc> numbers, non-Latin characters, etc.
[18:38:59] <stevel> hrm. tahoma.ttf?
[18:39:06] <stevel> that should be safe, no?
[18:39:11] <alanc> I would think so
[18:39:24] <stevel> do i need to rebuild a font cache or something?
[18:39:41] <alanc> you can try fc-cache -F to force rebuilds
[18:39:55] <alanc> not sure if the bug I'm thinking of is fixed in 51 or 52
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[18:40:23] <stevel> nope, they're all still segfaulting
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[18:45:07] <Error_404> gack! bloody build failed again
[18:47:52] <laca> stevel: hardly any changes in these builds on the gnome side
[18:48:06] <laca> so it must be alanc's fault (;
[18:48:14] <stevel> :) heh.
[18:48:55] <alanc> laca: not yet - I don't get stuck with fonts until Monday - hobson still gets the blame for one more day
[18:52:58] <stevel> alanc: do you have a CR# for that fontconfig bug?
[18:54:05] <alanc>  	6477136 Application crashed in FcHideFont if non-alphabetical name exists
[18:54:18] <stevel> thanks
[18:55:04] <alanc> looks like it should be in nv_51, so you can grab the nv_51 SUNWfontconfig now and install it
[18:55:22] <stevel> where can i find that?
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[19:05:22] <stevel> thanks alanc, i think that fixed things for me
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[19:10:06] <gdamore> hmmm.... just loaded SXCR49 on my SPARCLE500; cardbus no workiee.
[19:10:20] <gdamore> i think i'll have some diffs once i figure out what is wrong. :-)
[19:11:54] <gdamore> hmm.... i'm seriously thinking more and more about a MIPS OpenSolaris port.  I think it would be cool to have a MIPS port that could be used for one of these embedded NAS routers.   Solaris would probably be a better NAS server than Linux.
[19:12:38] <sstallion> hrmm
[19:12:58] <sstallion> gdamore: I'd almost start with an embedded solaris first
[19:13:15] <gdamore> what do you mean by embedded solaris?
[19:13:29] <oxygene> "something that fits into small  systems", I guess
[19:13:32] <sstallion> yeah
[19:13:51] <gdamore> just pick the core packages instead of ALL.  it would probably go a long way.  its easy to trim userland.
[19:13:54] <sstallion> at least then you could aim for more than just small mips machines
[19:14:06] <sstallion> gdamore: its still a *very* painful process
[19:14:25] <gdamore> i also want to aim for _big_ mips machines.  e.g. 16core cavium processors.
[19:14:34] <sstallion> ah
[19:14:37] <gdamore> how big is the core software package?
[19:14:45] <sstallion> shouldnt be too tough to aim for
[19:14:52] <sstallion> mips and sparc are *very* similar
[19:15:23] <gdamore> i was thinking of starting with a MIPS openbios port, so that i can leverage all the ofw stuff we have in sparc land
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[19:16:03] <gdamore> i'm fairly confident i have the skills, and i even have hardware, so that i could do it.  i just need to get some time to work on it.
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[19:27:29] <solaris-user> ola!
[19:27:43] <solaris-user> sup all
[19:27:50] * elektronkind eyes a particular user
[19:28:06] <elektronkind> why is this user making over 90 IMAP connections an hour?
[19:28:11] <elektronkind> I hate users.
[19:28:26] <solaris-user> 0)0
[19:28:37] <gdamore> IMAP reconnect every 45 seconds?
[19:28:47] <solaris-user> wainting any mail :)
[19:29:15] <gdamore> Probably running a biff tool or somesuch.  :-)
[19:29:18] <elektronkind> gdamore: apparently
[19:29:29] <g4lt-mordant> elektronkind, send him his password
[19:29:32] <elektronkind> probably some linux choad running fetchmail from his dorm
[19:29:58] <gdamore> why does it matter, as long as the connection is closed promptly?
[19:30:27] <elektronkind> gdamore: just tracking down some imap load issues I'm having at the moment
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[19:30:40] <g4lt-mordant> gdamore, if he makes an IAP connection every 45 seconds, do you think he's smart enough to close them correctly?
[19:30:57] <elektronkind> 6 IMAP servers with ~400 IMAP/POP clients connected at the moment
[19:31:24] <gdamore> g4lt: he shouldn't _have_ to be.  that's up to his application to get correct.
[19:31:25] <elektronkind> oh, there's exactly one IMAP logout for every one of his logins, so he's closing him... but IMAP wasn't meant to be like HTTP.
[19:32:00] <gdamore> this is fairly typical POP3 behavior, btw.
[19:32:30] <elektronkind> right, but pop3 isn't in the picture here
[19:32:47] <gdamore> but a lot of IMAP clients have POP3 ancestry.
[19:33:10] <gdamore> e.g. I wouldn't be surprised if Eudora uses short-lived IMAP connections
[19:33:37] <twincest> is there a better way to check for new mail with imap?
[19:34:02] <elektronkind> twincest: connect once, select INBOX, poll it.
[19:34:32] <gdamore> imap is supposed to support multiple clients connected simultaneously, and i guess the expectation is to use long lived connections.  but i think that isn't specified in the RFCs
[19:34:41] <elektronkind> IMAP connections can be open for days really
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[19:35:38] <gdamore> that's ultimately, I think, a client implementation decision.  depending on connections being long lived is a bad design decision.
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[19:36:53] <gdamore> and, on a really big server, with thousands of clients, checking e-mail and dropping the connection may be more polite.  e.g. you might hit open file limits and such.
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[19:37:45] <gdamore> of course its a trade off.  what costs more, reestablishing a connection, or keeping them around for long periods of time?  i dunno.
[19:37:54] <elektronkind> filedes limits aren't really a problem here
[19:38:47] <gdamore> right.  but in earlier times (a few years ago, when IMAP was new), it was a big consideration
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[19:43:46] <elektronkind> sigh. I just want to move our mail to cyrus and get rid of it being on afs
[19:44:11] <rawtaz_> hey all! i have a question, perhaps you can enlighten me.. i was about to download solaris express 9/06, but its six CD's! is there a way to install using just one cd? like over the network or so (like i do with bsd and linux)
[19:48:12] <sstallion> rawtaz_: download the dvd image :)
[19:48:42] <oxygene> rawtaz_: sun doesn't provide a public server for that (but it's possible to install with just netboot and the like)
[19:48:48] <rawtaz_> sstallion: heh, good one :) i dont have a dvd in the sparc though :/
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[19:49:14] <rawtaz_> oxygene: hmm ok. but then i must still provice all CDs on the server i guess
[19:49:19] <sstallion> rawtaz_: ahh. its possible to boot with the first disk (if you dont want to do a netboot) and mount images via ns
[19:49:23] <sstallion> err nfs
[19:50:05] <rawtaz_> i take it the best i can do is burn only one cd, downloading the rest and serve them via nfs or so :)
[19:51:02] <g4lt-mordant> the short answer for a n00b is you need all CD images
[19:51:15] <g4lt-mordant> get blanks, they're cheap
[19:51:21] <rawtaz_> g4lt-mordant: =D
[19:52:16] <g4lt-mordant> later you can do all kinds of things, but they imply specialized knowlege
[19:52:35] <rawtaz_> i think im too dang lazy :I
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[19:52:48] <rawtaz_> too used to minimal boot media
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[19:53:17] <gdamore> you can download the dvd, and if you have a solaris server anywhere, you can lofs mount it on a network boot server.  it works well.
[19:53:52] <gdamore> of course, that presumes you have at least one system already running Solaris 8 or better.
[19:54:16] <rawtaz_> can the dvd not be served via another system than solaris?
[19:54:21] <rawtaz_> for the install
[19:54:31] <sstallion> to do a netboot?
[19:54:58] <gdamore> well, its possible to set up with another system, but it requires more "skill".
[19:55:09] <rawtaz_> that non-n00b thing :))
[19:55:42] <rawtaz_> actually, i shouldnt waste your time any more. it seems to be described in a pdf i found
[19:55:46] <gdamore> certainly, the dvd can be served over NFS without problem.  the harder part is configuring a miniroot and setting up rarpd/dhcpd and bootparams.
[19:56:08] <g4lt-mordant> gdamore, thank you for volunterring to help him out when your scheme blows up in his face
[19:56:14] <gdamore> heh.
[19:56:29] <rawtaz_> im already amused by this channel ;D
[19:57:33] <gdamore> i have so many copies of different solaris source trees and installation media, that i need more disk.  i think i'm gonna get one of those ReadyNAS systems for NFS. :-)
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[20:06:17] <Fish> hello
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[20:19:27] <richlowe> stevel: Yes?
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[21:08:55] <_william_> hi all
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[21:22:39] <twincest>  blacklist.c:
[21:22:40] <twincest>  lint: errors in blacklist.c; no output created
[21:22:44] <twincest> why does it not print what the error is?
[21:23:44] <quasi> twincest: maybe it is in puzzle mode ;)
[21:24:24] <twincest> ah, there were errors in an included header, which it doesn't print by default
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[21:43:19] <Error_404> meh, i got errors a mile long last time i tried to build opensol
[21:44:05] <twincest> i'm not building anything, just linting my program
[21:44:18] <elektronkind> is that how long the 9-track tape you stored them on were?
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[21:48:16] <Error_404> elektronkind: no, that's how much paper the failure email'd take up if i printed it
[21:48:39] <elektronkind> time to refill that DECwriter
[21:50:35] <Error_404> speaking of old crap, it'd be cool to get & restore a pdp-11
[21:54:35] <elektronkind> yeah, and turn it in to a kegerator
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[22:18:17] <twincest> can i make lint not report static inline functions as unused?
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[22:23:12] <twincest> hm, /*LINTED*/ works i suppose
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[22:59:43] <rawtaz_> eeh, sorry to ask but.. a friend says he accidentally set a too high resolution in solaris. he asked me if there's a key combination he can press to get out to the shell?
[23:00:34] <ProfMikey> ctrl+alt+backspace?
[23:01:02] <rawtaz_> all ask him try that :)
[23:01:21] <rawtaz_> i'll*
[23:02:09] <rawtaz_> hm doesnt work :/
[23:04:43] <ProfMikey> so I have no idea
[23:05:02] <ProfMikey> you may try ctrl+alt+1,2,3,4,5,6 or whatever
[23:05:25] <rawtaz_> for the other terminals you mean?
[23:05:35] <ProfMikey> yeah
[23:06:05] <ProfMikey> then login from there update the config file and reload
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[23:10:19] <rawtaz_> ProfMikey: heh, it doesn't work :D
[23:10:25] <rawtaz_> thanks for your suggestions though :)
[23:10:32] * g4lt-mordant thwaps ProfMikey
[23:10:51] <g4lt-mordant> SOLARIS DOESN'T HAVE VIRTUAL CONSOLES, TWIT
[23:11:04] <twincest> (yet)
[23:11:15] <rawtaz_> is there no keys one can press at startup to get to a shell instead of into X ?
[23:12:30] <AbeFroman> boot -s
[23:12:35] <AbeFroman> (boots into single user)
[23:12:45] <AbeFroman> if this is x86, apped -s to the kernel line in your grub conf
[23:12:53] <rawtaz_> ok
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[23:17:18] <rawtaz_> thanks, boot -s solved it i think :)
[23:21:27] <Auralis> it does not, just disable the frelling gui login if you don' want it
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