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[00:00:58] <sickness> is there a way to manually remove any metadb/metainit thing from a system?
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[00:02:46] <elektronkind> metadb -d c?t?d?s?
[00:04:40] <tsoome> sickness: there is very nice manual about solaris volume manager in docs.sun.com
[00:05:20] <sickness> ...
[00:05:24] <sickness> ok tnx
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[00:20:16] <axisys> can anyone recognize this error, I am getting this from my 5310 to my host two a second: myhost rpcbind: [ID 884469 local1.warning] refused connect from 20X.X7.0.25 to getport(nlockmgr)
[00:20:24] <_william_> good night
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[00:20:55] <elektronkind> that's nfs
[00:21:08] <axisys> created a ticket with SUN a week ago.. they are still trying to fig out
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[00:21:40] <axisys> elektronkind: well i have nfs mount working fine.. so what should i look at?
[00:22:19] <elektronkind> see if rpcbind has tcp-wrappers enabled
[00:22:27] <elektronkind> man rpcbind for details
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[00:22:51] <axisys> yes it does.. just checked
[00:22:58] <elektronkind> there ya go :)
[00:23:00] <axisys> rpcbind: localhost
[00:23:05] <axisys> hehe
[00:23:38] <axisys> commented it out.. anything to restart to activate?
[00:24:00] <elektronkind> well, I'd add that 20X.X7.0.25 IP
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[00:24:13] <elektronkind> not comment out. it's probably enabled for a reason
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[00:25:09] <axisys> gotcha.. it had not been touched for years .. plus we are behind firewall.. so it would be ok either way.. but wiser to just add the ip
[00:25:28] <axisys> elektronkind: thnx.. do i need to restart any service to activate the change?
[00:25:40] <elektronkind> nope
[00:25:51] <elektronkind> hosts.allow|deny is read on every connect
[00:26:16] <axisys> elektronkind: cool
[00:26:16] <elektronkind> you can also turn use of tcpwrappers off in rpcbind
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[00:26:49] <axisys> let run tcpdmatch to see what it things about those ip on rpcbind service?!
[00:27:02] <elektronkind> sounds prudent
[00:27:10] <lloy0076> Is it possible to run native Windows applications that conform to its API (as opposed to do dodgy background calls etc) on Solaris at all?
[00:27:41] <elektronkind> lloy0076: if anything does that, it would be WINE, and I dont know if WINE runs on solaris/x86
[00:27:52] * lloy0076 hmmm
[00:28:35] <elektronkind> http://www.blastwave.org/wine/
[00:28:37] <elektronkind> start there
[00:29:49] <lloy0076> Yikes!
[00:30:00] <lloy0076> I'm on NexentaOS so apt-get install wine just got it.
[00:30:07] <lloy0076> I'm currently running Putty with it :P
[00:30:32] <elektronkind> hey, that was easy :)
[00:30:53] * lloy0076 wonders if Internet Explorer would run *rofl*
[00:35:38] <lloy0076> Anyway, unfortunately, I must be off to my day job.
[00:35:42] <lloy0076> Bye!
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[00:51:10] <aliquis> yeah, nexenta got the package management system solaris lacks ;/
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[00:53:32] <kimc> hello opensol
[00:55:21] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:55:39] <boyd> Jeez, I Thought I must be in the wrong channel with this short topic :)
[00:58:54] <delewis> is the JDS Trash applet working for anyone on SPARC?
[00:59:21] <delewis> I can move items into my Trash, but the applet doesn't fresh, but moreso, Nautilus doesn't display the new file in Trash, either.
[00:59:27] <delewis> refresh, rather.
[01:00:09] <delewis> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6455222
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[01:03:12] <boyd> delewis: Sorry, I was only vaguely aware that there *was* a trash :)
[01:06:44] <delewis> well, I wouldn't use it, if there was an equivalent of "rm" when you right click on a file :-)
[01:07:14] <boyd> Can you use backspace or something?
[01:07:21] <richlowe> there can be.
[01:07:23] <richlowe> but I forget how.
[01:07:38] * boyd vaguely remembers that right click menu being customisable
[01:08:01] <delewis> well, no problem, I'm back in CDE, where .Trash works fine :-)
[01:08:09] <boyd> :)
[01:08:12] <richlowe> delewis: edit -> preferences -> behaviour -> Include a Delete command that bypasses Trash
[01:08:18] <boyd> So does "rm" I find :)
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[01:08:36] <delewis> well, you sort of need a .Trash when you're working with a graphical file manager
[01:08:43] <delewis> it's far more error prone
[01:08:53] <richlowe> and I thought the thing with the trash applet was a matter of not having any kind of filesystem notifications.
[01:09:00] <boyd> More error prone than rm rubbish * ?
[01:09:01] <richlowe> but Gman or someone would be the one to ask.
[01:09:24] <delewis> boyd: when I use rm with a wildcard I always expand the wildcard before execution
[01:09:33] <delewis> that's a habit I've formed over the years :-)
[01:09:35] <boyd> delewis: Good idea.
[01:09:43] <boyd> Yay for zsh :)
[01:09:46] <jteo> just use snapshots.
[01:09:47] <dclarke> hello
[01:09:48] <jteo> [sic]
[01:09:50] <delewis> even ksh88 does that..
[01:10:08] <sickness> is it possible to have the swap space under lvm/raid1 ?
[01:10:18] <boyd> delewis: Oh yeah... so it does. My hands can only remember one key, though :)
[01:10:18] <sickness> (like the root slice)
[01:10:24] <delewis> ^[*
[01:10:29] <boyd> sickness: Yes
[01:10:48] <sickness> tnx
[01:11:14] <boyd> sickness: It's standard practice, otherwise a disk faulure -> panic
[01:11:24] <sickness> yeah, that makes sense...
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[01:17:17] <sickness> LOL
[01:17:22] <sickness> I did a silly but funny thing :P
[01:17:23] <sickness> ghgh
[01:18:11] <Error_404> heh, "how i spent my last hour" by me:
[01:18:25] <Error_404> thinking: hmm... i should play with aqualogic for some reason
[01:18:32] <sickness> yeah
[01:18:33] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/solarissoftwareraid.txt
[01:18:43] <Error_404> *clickyclicky* oh... solaris/sparc, linux/x86, windows... lame
[01:18:47] <Error_404> Oh... wait...
[01:18:49] <Error_404> brandz
[01:18:53] <sickness> I did a solaris lvm+raid1 boot/root inside qemu :PPP
[01:18:54] <sickness> ghghgh
[01:19:07] <sickness> absolutely useless but cool :P
[01:19:14] <sickness> and the guest runs 64bit too :PPP
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[03:31:37] <elektronkind> cal 11 2006
[03:31:42] <elektronkind> oops
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[05:01:29] <jlc> hallo
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[05:49:51] * jmcp__ blinks
[05:50:49] <twincest> hm?
[05:51:12] <jmcp__> !cat ~/.ircrc
[05:54:19] <jmcp__> twincest: sgd gets blocked, so I'm having to use a command-line client .... back to 1991 for me!
[05:57:02] <dwc-> whatever sgd is
[05:57:11] <dwc-> I'm still using a command line irc client
[05:57:20] <jmcp__> dwc: tarantella aka Sun Secure Global Desktop
[06:01:46] <jlc> how new is sxcr49?
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[06:02:53] <jamesd_>  jlc about 2 days
[06:02:54] <jmcp__> jlc: quite new. Derek or Danek only announced it today
[06:03:21] <jlc> figured, my d/l speed is around 15KBs
[06:04:00] <jlc> any know if an ati x1400 (mobile) works on Soliars?
[06:04:15] <jbalint> are env cars allowed (or ever if they are) unicode?
[06:04:18] <jbalint> s/cars/vars/
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[06:13:58] <bank__> hi
[06:14:19] <jmcp__> hi
[06:14:27] <jmcp__> still at work right now
[06:15:00] <bank__> me?
[06:15:01] <bank__> or you?
[06:15:16] <bank__> I am at the office. (last day)
[06:15:41] <bank__> yesterday I drunk
[06:15:44] <bank__> lol
[06:16:03] <bank__> Oh... SXCR 49 is available!
[06:16:42] <Error_404> it sure is
[06:17:07] <Error_404> every two weeks, give or take
[06:17:15] <Error_404> like sweatshop made clockwork
[06:17:32] <bank__> :)
[06:18:37] <bank__> if I am going to log into system via vnc and download SXCR 49 and install that (remotely). Does this call live update?
[06:18:44] <bank__> or it is possible?
[06:18:54] <bank__> (just would like to try brandZ)
[06:19:38] <Error_404> you could always just BFU
[06:21:14] <bank__> i ever heard about that. but feel a little bit fear to touch.
[06:21:17] <Error_404> http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=702
[06:21:28] <Error_404> meh, a bfu is unlikely to cause any problems
[06:21:44] <Error_404> read bens blog... it tells you how to do it
[06:22:32] <bank__> ok. I will read it.
[06:22:57] <Error_404> a bfu is more likely to run smoothly than anything else, to be honest
[06:23:23] <jlc> I'm a bfu'r
[06:23:50] <jlc> I do LU's too, depends on the box i"m on ;)
[06:33:48] <jlc> sleepy itme
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[06:54:06] <jamesd_> anyone know of any bugs that make  scsi drives give bogus error reports?  in b46?
[06:58:18] <boyd> That doesn't sound good for your disks, jamesd_
[06:58:47] <jamesd_> boyd, but smartctl reports no errors.
[06:58:56] <boyd> !
[06:59:05] <jamesd_> Vendor: SEAGATE  Product: ST118202LW       Revision: 0005 Serial No:
[06:59:05] <jamesd_> Size: 18.21GB <18210037760 bytes>
[06:59:05] <jamesd_> Media Error: 0 Device Not Ready: 124 No Device: 3 Recoverable: 0
[06:59:05] <jamesd_> Illegal Request: 3 Predictive Failure Analysis: 0
[06:59:20] <boyd> Device not ready
[06:59:55] <jamesd_> yes. that is solaris's version... smartctl  reports a healthy drive...
[07:00:16] <jamesd_> Device: SEAGATE  ST118202LW       Version: 0005
[07:00:17] <jamesd_> Serial number: LK5885760000192609EJ
[07:00:17] <jamesd_> Device type: disk
[07:00:17] <jamesd_> Local Time is: Thu Oct  5 23:55:50 2006 CDT
[07:00:17] <jamesd_> Device supports SMART and is Enabled
[07:00:17] <jamesd_> Temperature Warning Disabled or Not Supported
[07:00:19] <jamesd_> SMART Health Status: OK
[07:00:26] <boyd> So does solaris for SMART: Predictive Failure Analysis: 0
[07:00:55] <boyd> I don't know what device not ready means in this context
[07:04:59] <jamesd_> hmm i'm going to swap the cable...  its getting old... its falling a part but appears to work mostly.
[07:05:21] <boyd> or not :)
[07:05:38] <bank__> the disk may sad. he work well together for a long time.
[07:05:43] <bank__> he is crying.
[07:06:18] <bank__> sorry :P
[07:06:59] <jmcp__> smartctl is probably looking at the predictive failure analysis errors
[07:06:59] <boyd> :)
[07:07:08] <boyd> jmcp!
[07:07:34] <boyd> Did you tunnel out with a spoon?
[07:08:34] <Gman> Hi all
[07:08:43] <boyd> Hey, Gman
[07:09:15] <bank__> forg and spoon
[07:09:34] <Gman> How are you
[07:10:01] <boyd> Gman: Not bad for a friday arvo. How's the evening?
[07:10:01] <Gman> what does that mean
[07:10:54] <bank__> jmcp__: I just notice you __
[07:11:05] <bank__> your "__"
[07:11:20] <jmcp__> boyd: just about
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[07:11:27] <jmcp__> boyd: ssh to home, then irssi
[07:11:28] <boyd> :)
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[07:11:56] <boyd> If you can ssh to home you can tunnel to a squid proxy and then get to tarantella (or course, you could also just use vnc :) )
[07:11:59] <Gman> ...
[07:12:39] <Gman> thanks
[07:13:04] <boyd> Huh?
[07:13:47] <Gman> sorry boyd, demented cousin was using my laptop...
[07:13:52] <boyd> Hah!
[07:13:58] <boyd> I thought you must be stoned
[07:14:08] <boyd> :)
[07:14:14] <Gman> heh, no
[07:16:10] <jmcp__> boyd: too many ports blocked on the firewall. otherwise I would for sure
[07:16:44] <boyd> Surely if you can get one ssh connection out you can tunnel anything you like through it... unless you have to go through an ssh gateway
[07:16:55] <boyd> ssh -L 5901:localhost:5901 otherend
[07:18:52] * boyd personally finds plain ssh + screen is enough for most things
[07:19:33] <jmcp__> boyd: quite possibly, I just haven't gotten everything figured out just yet.
[07:19:49] <boyd> Geez, what are you doing.... work or something? :)
[07:23:34] <jmcp__> boyd: yeah. those project managers ....
[07:23:42] <boyd> Bastards
[07:23:47] <jmcp__> oh, and figuring out the extent of things here is interesting
[07:24:16] <boyd> interesting in the "may you live in interesting times" sense?
[07:26:32] <jmcp__> not sure just yet
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[07:31:11] <bank__> project managers stare at your monitor?
[07:31:40] <bank__> and grab your book to see the cover.
[07:35:15] <bank__> ok. sorry disturbing again
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[07:50:19] <jmcp__> bank__: fortunately, no, the project manager is in another building ... but he hassles me via phone.
[07:50:36] <jmcp__> annoyingly, he hasn't bothered to respond to some clarification requests I sent yesterday
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[07:54:20] <bank__> kick him.
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[07:54:29] <bank__> teach him with kangaroo boxing.
[07:55:19] <jmcp__> bank__: I've been tempted ...
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[08:00:58] <bank__> brb out to lunch.
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[08:10:52] <mdfk>  i have a pool made of two hdds...i want to take one out of the pool and create separate pool out of it
[08:10:59] <mdfk> but it is only applicable to mirror or replacing vdevs
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[08:57:14] <Error_405> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-porting/?ca=dgr-lnxw06PortingUnixToLinux
[08:57:18] <Error_405> Porting enterprise apps from UNIX to Linux
[08:57:25] <Error_405> step1: don't
[08:57:53] <Error_405> step2: if you did anyways, buy twice as much hardware for extra redundancy
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[09:02:34] <jmcp__> Error_404: shall I fetch the vendor-inspired cynicism mop+bucket for you?
[09:02:41] <jmcp__> Error_404: I do agree with you though
[09:04:22] <Error_404> TBH, i'm not certain why IBM's gone all ga-ga over linux
[09:07:26] <bank__> ga - ga
[09:07:51] <quasi> Error_404: they need an alternative to aix that generates as many consulting hours as possible ;)
[09:08:14] <Error_404> what, they just got bored of AIX?
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[09:08:50] <twincest> AIX doesn't break enough ;-)
[09:09:07] <quasi> aix is power only - they probably wanted something to generate revenue on x86 as well
[09:09:12] <Error_404> heh
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[09:11:05] <quasi> twincest: obviously it doesn't - it has hardly gotten a new feature in the last 10 years or so - a bit like my old Ti calculator from school - it still works like a charm ;)
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[09:12:12] <jmcp__> oh ffs! damn msword is "not responding"
[09:12:24] <jmcp__> I *think* I hit save in time ....
[09:12:27] <Sieghard> can anyone send me their tools.jar?
[09:12:46] <dwc-> uh, tools.jar from what? the jdk?
[09:12:51] <Error_404> Sieghard: that's pretty vague
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[09:12:54] <Sieghard> dwc-: yes
[09:13:03] <jengelh>  /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun-1.5.0_07/lib/tools.jar
[09:13:04] <jengelh> i'd have that
[09:13:10] <dwc-> got a version number you want with that?
[09:13:17] <dwc-> or will just any 'ol one do
[09:13:22] <dwc-> you can download the jdk from sun's website, btw
[09:13:31] <Sieghard> dwc-: the one from 1.5.0 is fine, any minor version
[09:13:43] <jengelh> take dcc?
[09:13:46] <Sieghard> dwc-: yeah, but too much work just for that file which i only need to use once
[09:13:50] <Sieghard> jengelh: yes
[09:14:22] <dwc-> if you say so
[09:14:28] <Sieghard> jengelh: thanks
[09:15:27] <jengelh> md5 1aa50ef58051b2fab74e10757104cfe1
[09:15:47] <Sieghard> jengelh: great, matches
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[09:24:29] <noyb> yay...  I'm back.  the 'screen' utility was broken for a bit.
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[09:46:14] <jmcp__> ciao!
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[09:52:12] <kleppari> uhm..
[09:52:21] <kleppari> I'm having a *weird* issue with my box
[09:53:11] <kleppari> whenever I try to boot the 64-bit kernel, it boot's fine until it's time to start X
[09:53:19] <kleppari> then I get a blank screen and the system reboots
[09:53:37] <kleppari> and I need to boot single user and fsck and set the system clock again
[09:53:47] <kleppari> it get's set back by a day or so
[09:53:54] <kleppari> to be able to boot the 32-bit kernel again
[09:55:46] <Gman> 'The kernel now has a generic boolean type, called bool; it replaces a number of homebrewed boolean types found in various parts of the kernel.'
[09:55:54] <Gman> [from the linux kernel changes in lwn this week]
[09:56:06] <kleppari> if I don't boot single user and set the system clock, the 32-bit kernel shows the same symptoms
[09:56:23] <kleppari> anyone knows anything about this?
[09:56:35] <kleppari> I'm not sure how to debug this, because I am unable to log in running the 64-bit kernel
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[09:57:38] <Vanuatoo> guys can you check blogs.sun.com. I'm having problems accessing it
[09:57:51] <asyd> works here
[09:58:21] <kleppari> it's slow, but works fine here
[09:58:33] <Vanuatoo> kleppari: why it's slow?
[09:58:46] <Vanuatoo> do you know the reason?
[09:58:52] <kleppari> no
[09:59:05] <kleppari> just takes a little longer than normal to respond
[09:59:06] <Vanuatoo> opensolaris.org forums also crawl
[09:59:23] <Vanuatoo> kleppari: I guess it's run on T2000
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[10:01:38] <kleppari> opensolaris.org forums are very fast here..
[10:01:44] <kleppari> maybe it's an issue with your link?
[10:02:44] <bank__> yes it slow.
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[10:10:39] <Vanuatoo> funny. Every other site work fast and fine
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[10:11:03] <Vanuatoo> I'm trying to access desktop discuss forum
[10:11:10] <Vanuatoo> There is a post http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=14981&tstart=0
[10:11:15] <Vanuatoo> Why this site is so slow :)
[10:12:11] <kleppari> opensolaris.org is blindingly fast here
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[10:30:49] <bank__> hi kimc
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[11:40:06] <klepplap> anyone here used the tools.de sound drivers?
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[11:47:13] <sickness> morning all
[11:47:34] <bank__> morning sickness
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[11:49:13] <cypromis> hmmm
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[12:05:46] <kimc> good morning
[12:06:28] <kimc> hi bank
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[12:15:33] <phipsbook> mornin'
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[12:24:53] <Xh4> Can Solaris read off UFS?
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[12:44:04] <sickness> yeah, solaris ufs
[13:00:13] <Xh4> sickness, how about BSD UFS?
[13:00:16] <Xh4> Like the kind on NetBSD?
[13:00:35] * PerterB hmms... I just typoed "zfs lust".
[13:00:50] <Peanut> Scary, PerterB
[13:00:59] <PerterB> indeed
[13:01:46] <PerterB> Xh4: BSD can read and write solaris ufs, not 100% sure it works the other way around though
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[13:06:52] <Xh4> Oh.
[13:06:53] <Xh4> Hm.
[13:20:41] <PerterB> actually, apart from logging and endian issues the on-disk format might be compatible (between BSD ffs and Solaris ufs)
[13:22:07] <Xh4> o rly...hmmm...
[13:22:53] <PerterB> suck it and see ;)
[13:23:13] <Xh4> Hah, yeah... maybe at some point.. :p
[13:23:19] <Xh4> But like..
[13:23:41] <Xh4> Solaris... does it have a modules system or is it BSD-like in a way that when you compile the "kernel", you get to like.. build the "drivers" in?
[13:23:51] <Xh4> Such that I could plug my PCMCIA card in and BAM! It's detected?
[13:23:56] <Xh4> Or USB or whatever?
[13:24:19] <PerterB> it's modular... device drivers and filesystems are loaded as required
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[13:25:05] <Xh4> Hmmm.. loaded as required..
[13:25:09] <Xh4> Automatically, or must you do it yourself?
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[13:26:29] <PerterB> automatically
[13:26:38] <Xh4> Oh, awesomeness. :)
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[14:02:37] <aliquis> Xh4: you can have kernel modules in bsd aswell, I think ;/
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[14:02:52] <aliquis> but maybe not the stuff which comes with the kernel
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[14:09:32] <sickness> Xh4: I don't think that could work, over the years, the format changed a lot :/
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[14:16:13] <Xh4> aliquis, yup, you can..
[14:16:22] <Xh4> But it's not too common... not in NetBSD anyway. :\
[14:16:26] <Xh4> sickness, ah..
[14:16:29] <Xh4> Gayness. :(
[14:16:34] <sickness> ? :)
[14:16:43] <Xh4> <sickness> Xh4: I don't think that could work, over the years, the format changed a lot :/
[14:17:37] <sickness> heh :/
[14:20:29] <aliquis> But the netbsd kernel doesn't use much ram at all anyway does it?
[14:20:36] <aliquis> so why care
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[14:32:44] <sickness> is it possible to fssnap & ufsdump a software raid1 volume?
[14:33:03] <asyd> well, why you think it's not possible ? it's still a UFS volume
[14:33:06] <asyd> s/volume//
[14:33:13] <sickness> yeah
[14:33:27] <sickness> that makes sense, but not always what makes sense is then feasible ;P
[14:33:53] <asyd> :)
[14:34:38] * Peanut tries it at least once a week, sickness - has always worked for me so far.
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[14:40:29] <sickness> eheh
[14:40:48] <sickness> yeah I'll try soon, I'm playing with lvm+raid1 root inside qemu :P
[14:40:57] <sickness> I'd like to try to snapshot/backup it all too :PPP
[14:41:04] <asyd> hehe
[14:41:14] <pjlv> Is Sun's StorEdge Enterprise Backup Software the same as Emc's Networker? I am looking for ZFS support...
[14:41:30] <sickness> being able to liveupgrade could be a plus too, but I doubt it could be possible...
[14:41:33] <sickness> anyway I'll try
[14:43:39] <LeftWing> pjlv: I believe they're both (Legatos) Networker, yes.
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[14:43:52] <pjlv> thanks
[14:44:19] <LeftWing> You'll probably get better support from Sun that you will from EMC, though. =P
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[14:50:33] <bank> Hi everyone.
[14:50:40] <bank> at home.
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[15:15:54] <AbeFroman> emc tends to come out with versions more quickly though
[15:18:49] <richlowe> sickness: fssnap, ufsdump, etc, are a property of the filesystem, so yes.
[15:18:59] <richlowe> and yes, you can liveupgrade when using SVM.
[15:19:12] <sickness> cool =)
[15:19:13] <richlowe> iirc, you can even break the mirror, upgrade half of it, boot that half, then rebuild the mirror to do it.
[15:19:24] <aliquis> You knew something had to be wrong with the Gentoo users, but this is one going for the extreme: http://www.glumbert.com/media/hookedonpenguins
[15:19:25] <sickness> yeah... that makes sense after all...
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[15:28:03] <PerterB> aliquis: that's just creepy
[15:31:37] <Xh4> Is there infrared support on laptops in solaris/opensolaris?
[15:33:29] <LeftWing> Not that I've heard of.
[15:35:10] <PerterB> me either (although google says there was a driver for the infrared port on the SPARCstation Voyager... but nothing about an irda protocol stack)
[15:36:53] <Xh4> Ah. Hm.
[15:37:19] <PerterB> irda is a disgusting set of protocols anyway
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[15:43:11] <sickness> yeah, plain serial is way nicer
[15:45:13] <richlowe> I'd think if they existed at all, they'd be tadpole's
[15:46:06] * PerterB reads that again and spots the apostrophe this time
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[16:08:02] <bank> what happen.
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[16:10:03] <sickness> split?
[16:10:14] <PerterB> no thanks, we just had one :)
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[16:33:17] <sickness> iii just upgraded to snv_49
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[16:34:09] <sickness> hi stevel
[16:34:16] <stevel> g'morning sickness
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[17:03:20] <jteo> woohoo. OpenBSD on the moral high ground vs Redhat.
[17:04:00] <Error_404> ?
[17:04:15] <quasi> jteo: and last week it was intel getting some harsh words from that crowd
[17:04:32] <jteo> Theo criticised Redhat for signing a NDA with Marvell for the wireless chipset used in the OLPC.
[17:04:39] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[17:05:07] <Error_404> isn't OLPC supposed to be all open?
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[17:05:44] <richlowe> the openness of things developed under strict NDA is what the whole argument is about.
[17:06:22] <jteo> the point is: documentation is infinitely preferable to source code
[17:06:43] <LeftWing> And functionality is preferable to both. =P
[17:06:57] <Error_404> LeftWing: depends how you define "functional"
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[17:07:20] <jteo> if functionality was of the highest priority, then we would all be running windows.
[17:07:36] <LeftWing> jteo: I'd still be running UNIX. =P
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[17:08:01] <Error_404> LeftWing: on a PDP-11
[17:08:12] <LeftWing> Not being shafted by the Redmond way of doing things is further up the list again than functionality. ;P
[17:08:16] <richlowe> with non-split I/D
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[17:10:49] <jteo> Theo is an asshole sometimes, but he's *my* kind of asshole.
[17:11:10] *** phoenixi has joined #opensolaris
[17:11:42] <delewis> jteo: you've seen his comments towards Sun correct (during an interview last year, he was griping that Sun wouldn't *pay* for an OpenBSD development team to attend the NFS conference)?
[17:12:41] <LeftWing> haha
[17:12:41] <jteo> true. he is irritating that way.
[17:12:45] <jteo> ;)
[17:12:56] <LeftWing> He's not so much an asshole as he is an assclown. =P
[17:13:18] <quasi> if it was me, I'd pay to fly him as far away from the nfs con as possible
[17:13:38] <Yamaraj> Haha
[17:13:51] <AbeFroman> they need to pay for linux developers so they can fix the crappy v4 implementation
[17:14:19] <quasi> why?
[17:14:25] <Yamaraj> So much for the "free" Utopia.
[17:14:31] <delewis> http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/03/20/2050223.shtml
[17:14:48] <delewis> "If you want to judge any entity particularly harshly, judge Sun. Yearly they hold interoperability events, for NFS and other protocols, and they include SSH implementation tests as well. Twice we asked them to cover the travel and accommodation costs for a developer to come to their event, and they refused. Considering that their SunSSH is directly based on our code, that is just flat out insulting. Shame on you Sun, shame
[17:14:57] <quasi> how could it ever be suns problem that the linux weenies are fools on that front?
[17:15:44] <AbeFroman> it's not their problem, they should just do it out of sympathy for us admins that have to deal with it
[17:15:57] <rydis> Linux weenies?
[17:16:06] <jteo> i'm sorry for starting this. :(
[17:16:09] <delewis> AbeFroman: why bother, when you can just deploy Solaris.
[17:16:14] <delewis> and have perfect NFSv4
[17:16:21] <delewis> jteo: :-)
[17:16:22] <LeftWing> And Kerberos!
[17:16:27] <AbeFroman> _I_ deploy solaris, other admins and some users insist on linux
[17:16:34] <delewis> stab them.
[17:16:37] <LeftWing> Well they should be FIRED!
[17:16:38] <AbeFroman> haha
[17:16:57] * AbeFroman crafts a shank out of a vhdc scsi cable
[17:17:04] <delewis> haha
[17:17:06] <delewis> ouch.
[17:17:11] <jteo> that's more like a needle.
[17:17:41] <jamesd_> AbeFroman, woundn't a cat of nine tails better from a scsi cable?
[17:18:00] <AbeFroman> just using what i've got handy
[17:18:19] <delewis> LeftWing: btw, do you know how primitive UNIX was on a PDP-11?
[17:18:36] <LeftWing> delewis: Yes I'm vaguely aware of just how primitive.
[17:18:54] <rydis> You could just get simh and v7 and try it out. Great fun.
[17:19:02] <LeftWing> Any PDP-11 advocacy on my part was a mere unfortunatey juxtaposition caused by others. ;P
[17:19:05] <LeftWing> *unfortunate
[17:19:13] <delewis> right, and you'll quickly see that you can't "cd" into another directory
[17:19:20] <LeftWing> heh
[17:19:27] <richlowe> I think v7 had the bourne shell, and it was v6 with the mashey shell and chdir?
[17:19:28] <delewis> yeah :-)
[17:19:31] <rydis> (I used to have such a setup answering on the telnet port of one of my machines. :)
[17:19:47] <delewis> richlowe: probably
[17:19:54] <LeftWing> I'm rather fond of more modern UNIX offerings. =P
[17:19:56] <delewis> pre-v7 was basically annoying to work with.
[17:20:06] <delewis> you at least had pipes and job control
[17:20:13] <delewis> well, maybe not job control
[17:20:32] <PerterB> nah, job control didn't come until csh and BSD
[17:20:42] <jteo> all i want is bash.
[17:20:42] <delewis> that's why I recanted :-)
[17:21:56] <delewis> BSD 4.3 on a VAX was pretty slick, though :-)
[17:21:57] <delewis> even had dbx
[17:22:14] <PerterB> jteo: not ksh93? (*ducks and hides*)
[17:22:16] <delewis> (not to mention source to dbx)
[17:22:34] <Yamaraj> All I want is ksh93. *Thankfully gisburn isn't around* ;-)
[17:22:46] <jteo> i'm a newbie really. bash was my first UNIX shell.
[17:22:56] <delewis> mine, too, but I regressed to ksh :-)
[17:23:18] <delewis> I doubt I've ever really used a Bash-specific feature, hence my migration.
[17:23:23] <Yamaraj> Or, zsh - the last word in shell business.
[17:23:28] <phoenixi> (/me likes ksh nowadays too - esp for scripting.. :)
[17:23:52] <delewis> I just want wildcards, expansion, job control, editting, and a history.
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[17:24:14] <delewis> oh, and loops/conditionals are nice, too.
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[17:26:06] <jteo> shell script has always left a bad taste in my mouth.
[17:26:57] <delewis> as it should, considering what it's modelled after.
[17:28:10] <delewis> Bourne had a fetish for BCP/L (I think) and lots of annoying C #define's to make Bourne codebase BCP/L-like.
[17:28:37] <delewis> naturally, the language of the shell itself was the same :-)
[17:29:00] <rydis> Wasn't it Pascal? I've heard some rumours of that, at least.
[17:29:42] <delewis> er, not BCP/L
[17:29:45] <delewis> Algol-68
[17:30:16] <delewis> which used case ... esac, if ... fi, instead of braces for blocks
[17:30:19] <delewis> sound familiar?
[17:30:20] <delewis> :-)
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[17:33:29] <Yamaraj> BCPL, the grand-daddy of C, right?
[17:35:06] <PerterB> yup
[17:38:01] * jmcp mutters about waking up
[17:38:20] <elektronkind> it's like the middle of the night where you are
[17:38:42] <jteo> i'm sorry for waking ye.
[17:39:12] <jmcp> nah, I just woke up suddenly and the old on-call behaviour kicked in
[17:40:14] <jmcp> elektronkind: yeah, that's the point :(
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[17:51:15] <sickness> hi eboutilier
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[17:57:26] <eboutilier> hi sickness
[17:57:56] <sickness> I posted a new howto this night :P
[17:58:33] <eboutilier> cool. is it related to the live media stuff?
[17:58:51] <asyd> hello eric
[17:59:00] <eboutilier> hi asyd
[17:59:40] <sickness> nope, qemu this time :P
[18:00:03] <sickness> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=15124&tstart=0
[18:00:07] <sickness> :P
[18:00:36] <asyd> nice
[18:01:11] <eboutilier> yes.
[18:01:34] <asyd> seem you're very crazy, but nice anyway :P
[18:02:05] <sickness> lol :P
[18:02:50] <asyd> ok, it's week end. Time to drunk
[18:03:31] <quasi> sickness: I'm beginning to see where your nick came from ;)
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[18:04:24] <sickness> ihihih :)
[18:04:31] <asyd> ahah
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[18:08:34] <jmcp> don't suppose anybody knows how to burn a mac .dmg file and thereby make it bootable?
[18:09:43] <lasseoe> dunno, tried Disk Utility ?
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[18:09:58] <jmcp> lasseoe: I don't have a mac
[18:10:18] <sickness> jmcp: you can't
[18:10:27] <jmcp> bugger
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[18:14:55] <dwc-> jmcp dmg2iso
[18:15:37] <jmcp> dwc-: I've been trying that. unfortunately I've got a full dvd image which dmg2iso turns into 5.3gb and I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be that big
[18:16:09] <elektronkind> I don't know about a good dmg to iso convertor
[18:16:18] * elektronkind is on a mac though
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[18:16:39] <sickness> .dmg is evil, that't the only true fact, so try to find a .iso image :/
[18:16:51] <jmcp> yeah
[18:16:52] <jmcp> figured as much :(
[18:16:54] <dwc-> 5.3gb might fit...
[18:16:55] <jmcp> thanks folks
[18:16:56] <elektronkind> dmg is great... if you're a mac user
[18:17:07] <dwc-> that sounds like the right size for the unformatted capacity of the dvds
[18:17:11] <dwc-> I think ....
[18:17:16] * dwc- doesn't have a dvd burner
[18:17:25] <sickness> jmcp: I'm sorry I had the same problem some times because I have 3 apple computers but no osx at home...
[18:17:31] <jmcp> darn
[18:17:45] <sickness> I don't use osx anymore so no problem about that, but I know that .dmg is tricky :/
[18:19:12] <dwc-> if you've got an rw sort of drive, you could try it for free :/
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[18:19:40] <axisys> how do i remove a device from raidz.. this is the pool http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/qI7DP514.html
[18:19:57] <elektronkind> device removal from a pool isn't supported... yet
[18:20:33] <jmcp> dwc-: I have a dvd writer, dual layer too, .... and burning the dmg direct didn't work
[18:20:37] <axisys> i am trying to run newfs on a device
[18:20:46] <jmcp> I'll try the iso but I think cdrecord will complain bitterly
[18:20:50] <axisys> which is part of raidz
[18:20:55] <axisys> but it is not letting me
[18:21:14] <elektronkind> axisys: are you using ZVOLs ?
[18:21:54] <axisys> i am using zfs raidz on sol 10 u2.. not sure what zvol is?
[18:22:21] <elektronkind> axisys: I'm just trying to figure out why you're trying to use newfs...
[18:22:34] <jmcp> dwc-: nah:  "data does not fit on current disk" ....
[18:22:37] * jmcp tries -force
[18:22:44] <axisys> because of this http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/qI7DP514.html
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[18:23:24] <elektronkind> so you have a bad drive... where does newfs come into this? :)
[18:23:27] <richlowe> I seem to recall dmg's being (optionally?) compressed.
[18:23:39] <jmcp> richlowe: that gels with what I've found out
[18:23:48] <axisys> i was assuming it is probably a corrupted blokc
[18:23:51] <jmcp> and the dmg2iso.pl script uses Compress::ZLIB too
[18:23:51] <axisys> block rather
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[18:24:28] <axisys> i replaced this disk twice already..
[18:24:33] <axisys> in the past
[18:24:53] <colyli> a stupid question: is solaris a 32 bit OS, or 64 bit OS ?
[18:25:06] <jamesd_> colyli, yes!
[18:25:08] <dwc-> jmcp: no clue then, sorry
[18:25:18] <dwc-> it is both colyli
[18:25:47] <axisys> elektronkind: format does show the disk.. so not sure if th whole disk went bad or just the slice which is part of raidz
[18:26:02] <colyli> dwc-: do you mean, in x86, it's 32 bit, in sparc, it's 64 bit ?
[18:26:29] <dwc-> no, it's both... on both...
[18:26:34] <dwc-> amd64
[18:26:50] <axisys> elektronkind: iostat -En shows no error
[18:27:32] <colyli> dwc-: sorry for these stupid quesiton, I have no experience in solaris.
[18:27:44] <dwc-> not a problem
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[18:28:04] <colyli> dwc-: does solaris kernel share the 4G address space with user space application ?
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[18:28:23] <colyli> dwc-: or, each one has a 4G address space in 32 bit platform ?
[18:28:40] <dwc-> that, I don't know the answer to
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[18:29:16] <colyli> dwc-: anyway, thank you :-)
[18:29:54] <dwc-> I would, if I had an x86 system with that much memory running solaris
[18:30:09] <loke> colyli: each 32-bit process has its own 4 GB address space
[18:30:20] <loke> colyli: that's on both 32-bit kernels and 64-bit kernels
[18:30:45] <loke> colyli: however, on x86, the available address space is actually smaller, becuase of limitations in the architecture
[18:31:06] <colyli> loke: do you mean, the application does not share the pagetale with kernel ? or, the kernel will not share the address space with user application ?
[18:31:09] <loke> colyli: on SPARC, a 32-bit app can access 3.76 GB (or something close)
[18:31:28] <loke> colyli: On x86, it shares the page table with the kernel. Not so on SPARC
[18:31:57] <loke> colyli: as far as I know, that's because of a limitation of the x86 architecture. I know very little about x86 and amd64 thoufh
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[18:32:17] <loke> colyli: anyway, that's why you have a larger available address space on 32-bit SPARC apps
[18:32:17] <colyli> loke: do you mean, in SPARC, kernel and user application has its own address space. and in x86, kernel and user application share the address space ?
[18:32:18] <jamesd_> colyli, http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/09/solaris-internals.html    if you really want to learn about solaris inernals, get those two books.
[18:32:29] <loke> colyli: sory of. yes
[18:32:41] <PerterB> I thought the kernel and process shared the same virtual address space on x86 32bit - http://blogs.sun.com/kchow/ seems to confirm that
[18:32:51] <loke> colyli: I honestly don't know if the _entire_ kernel address space is mapped on x86
[18:33:13] <colyli> loke: sorry for the stupid questions, for I'm not familiar with solaris and sparc.
[18:33:26] <loke> colyli: but as far as I know, it does, and it has to because of the way the x86 works. On SPARC, the kernel address space is completely separate
[18:34:26] <jmcp> colyli: they're not stupid questions at all
[18:34:33] <loke> and yes, I so much prefer the SPARC architecture. In fact, it's my favourite one (although there is still some love for the 68k architecure :-) )
[18:34:36] <jmcp> colyli: side question - why do you want to know?
[18:34:55] <colyli> loke: my next question is, in sparc, if kernel and application does not share part of address space, it will be a bit slow in context switching , isn't ?
[18:35:09] <loke> colyli: no
[18:35:26] <loke> colyli: there are separate page tables
[18:36:04] <colyli> jmcp: I hear of solaris make kernel and application has its own 32 bit address space, and does not share.  so I can not understand how to make the context switching for this situation
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[18:36:21] <jmcp> colyli: do you really need to worry about that though?
[18:36:22] <loke> colyli: as far as I know, it does share on x86
[18:36:46] <colyli> sorry for asking this, I have no solaris programming experience. for I only have linux programming expreience in x86.
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[18:36:56] <loke> jmcp: I suppose it is because he knows the x86 architecture. Also, it affects how much memory a 32-bit process can access, which is very important
[18:37:19] <loke> our app is 32-bit and frequently allocates 3.5 GB :-)
[18:37:20] <loke> or more :-)
[18:37:41] <loke> it's much more limiting on x86
[18:38:02] <jmcp> loke: yes, I figured that, I was wondering why colyli wanted to know... most people don't really care or need to know
[18:38:27] <colyli> jmcp and loke: in x86, kernel share part of the address space of user application adress space, so when task switching, switching the page tables in kernel will not cause TLB flush, for every application's kernel part are same.
[18:38:36] <jteo> cheap, fast, good. pick 2 out of 3.
[18:38:37] <loke> jmcp: that's true. But maybe he's a geek like the rest(?) of us. At least I am very interested in these things.
[18:39:11] <jmcp> loke: fairenuff
[18:40:03] <colyli> but for separate address space, everytime for page tables switching, the TLB flushing will be expensive. sorry for that I only have x86 experience
[18:40:14] <jmcp> colyli: stop apologising
[18:40:16] <loke> colyli: but like jamesd already suggested, get the Solaris Internals book. It's amazingly good. Just a few years ago, most content in that book was employees-only :-)
[18:40:16] * LeftWing is more interested in how he's going to scam a Sun Ray 2FS.
[18:40:29] <Yamaraj> We were never supposed to use more than 640KB of memory, ever!
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[18:40:35] <loke> colyli: it's not so expensive on SPARC
[18:41:00] * PerterB beats Yamaraj around the head with a wobbly Sinclair 16K RAM Pack
[18:41:38] <loke> PerterB: I wish I could beat you over the head with a 1 kB ZX-81, but I never had one of those. My first computer was the C64
[18:42:00] <LeftWing> C64s were fantastic.
[18:42:11] <LeftWing> Particularly when you're three.
[18:42:17] <loke> LeftWing: I was 11 damnit!
[18:42:21] <LeftWing> A spectacle of graphics and sound! =)
[18:42:35] <loke> LeftWing: I still use the c64 emulator
[18:42:47] <LeftWing> heh, I don't. =P
[18:42:51] <PerterB> I was more of a PET and ZX Spectrum weenie
[18:43:05] <colyli> loke: do you mean, in sparc, there are lot of physical memory can be acessed ? even kernel and application both own 4GB for each ?
[18:43:14] <loke> PerterB: I went from c64 to Atari ST to VAX 11/750
[18:43:19] <LeftWing> I was always rather attached to early Macintosh kit.
[18:43:48] <loke> to Atari Falcon to SparcSTATION to OSX
[18:43:51] <dwc-> i liked the early mac stuff ... but that's cuz it had brickles and xwing
[18:44:04] <loke> (a couple of Linux PC's thrown in for good measure somewhere among those)
[18:44:14] <jmcp> colyli: sparc has an iommu to make address space stuff easier
[18:44:22] <LeftWing> loke: You've inverted the capitalisation. ;P
[18:44:29] <loke> oops
[18:44:32] <loke> you're right
[18:44:41] <LeftWing> My feet presently rest on one. =P
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[18:44:50] <loke> Anyway, at home I used SPARCstation 5 and later a double-cpu SPARCstation 20
[18:44:53] <dwc-> they make decent doorstops too
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[18:45:02] <jteo> the SS5 is probably the slowest system i've ever used.
[18:45:05] <LeftWing> I'll have mine up and running in a few days when the Boot PROMs arrive! =D
[18:45:07] <loke> LeftWing: (was the S capitalised?)
[18:45:16] <LeftWing> loke: I'm pretty sure it was just SPARCstation.
[18:45:43] <colyli> jmcp: do you mean it's not so expensive in context switching, when kernel does not share address space with user application, on SPARC ?
[18:45:43] <LeftWing> It certainly is on this SS10.
[18:45:52] <loke> jteo: yeah, it was pretty crap wasn't it? :-)  It was my primary system for quite some time though, until I came to Sun and scavanged a 20 with double cpu's. It was pretty damn fast actually
[18:46:01] <loke> oh yeah, I had a sparcstation 10 as well
[18:46:14] <loke> colyli: exactly
[18:46:20] <LeftWing> I have Quad 167Mhz HyperSPARCs in mine! ;P
[18:46:31] <loke> LeftWing: I just had double
[18:46:43] <loke> LeftWing: can't remember the clock. i think it was 75 MHz
[18:46:49] <LeftWing> aye
[18:46:54] <loke> SuperSPARC I believe
[18:46:55] <loke> it's been a while
[18:47:00] <loke> but damn it was a good machine
[18:47:04] <LeftWing> heh
[18:47:15] <loke> one of the best desktops to even come out of Sun. It was so solid
[18:47:30] <jmcp> colyli: yes
[18:48:01] <colyli> loke: so, the advence for this layout policy is: more usable address space can be acessed in both kernel and user application, without much cost for the separated address space?
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[18:48:09] <loke> my current favourite, and the one I'm on the most at work now, is the V890
[18:48:14] <LeftWing> loke: Probably in part down to the software on the machine.
[18:48:34] <loke> colyli: correct
[18:48:56] <LeftWing> jmcp: You're up late.  It must be Friday.
[18:49:07] <colyli> loke, and jmcp: Thank you !
[18:49:56] <loke> colyli: np. i love to help :-)
[18:49:58] <jmcp> LeftWing: I was asleep, but woke up and the old on-call response kicked in
[18:50:07] <LeftWing> haha
[18:50:20] <jmcp> :(
[18:50:23] <LeftWing> My on-call response is to throw the phone away.
[18:50:36] <LeftWing> People will call twice if they want me to get out of bed. ;P
[18:50:44] <colyli> loke and jmcp: bye, talk to you later. very happy to discuss with you :-)
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[18:53:48] <jmcp> LeftWing: I haven't done on-call support since early 2002
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[18:55:06] <loke> colyli: have fun :-)
[18:55:33] * colyli has fun now :-)
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[18:56:48] <LeftWing> jmcp: That's ... some time. =P
[18:59:18] <jmcp> LeftWing: yah :}
[19:00:01] <LeftWing> I don't really do on-call support now, but I've told a few clients that I'd prefer that they call if they have the beginnings of catastrophic disk failure at 2am rather than have to completely rebuild the system at 10am. =P
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[19:00:31] <jmcp> LeftWing: wise
[19:00:43] <jmcp> LeftWing: I made sure on-call and overtime was expressly forbidden in my current contract
[19:00:50] <LeftWing> heh
[19:00:53] <LeftWing> Also wise. ;P
[19:01:28] <LeftWing> I'm not at the contract-making phase.  I have too much Uni on to commit to being available. =P
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[19:03:37] <LeftWing> And I think it's well and truly sleep time.
[19:03:38] <Error_404> and I go to Uni in the middle of nowhere, so now i go interview for a minimum wage retail job
[19:03:47] <LeftWing> Yeah?
[19:04:21] <Error_404> about 1000km northeast of vancouver
[19:04:25] <LeftWing> I go to Uni in what is probably the biggest non-Capital city in my country. =P
[19:06:24] <loke> LeftWing: Sydney?
[19:06:39] <LeftWing> Sydney is a capital city.
[19:06:48] <LeftWing> I'm two hours North in Newcastle.
[19:07:12] <loke> LeftWing: uh? Canberra is the capital last I looked :-)
[19:07:32] <jmcp> loke: we've got state capitals too
[19:07:37] <jmcp> Sydney is a state capital
[19:07:37] <loke> oh
[19:07:50] <jmcp> Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne/Hobart/Darwin/Adelaide/Perth
[19:07:56] <jmcp> never visit Adelaide, it's a hole
[19:08:01] <LeftWing> It certainly is.
[19:08:10] <jmcp> well, Adelaide is a great place to go through to get to somewhere nice
[19:08:26] <LeftWing> Provided you can't get there quicker via some more direct means.
[19:09:00] * loke has considered going to Perth for a visit
[19:09:08] <loke> (it's the nearest :-) )
[19:09:11] <jmcp> LeftWing: sydney->adelaide (fly) drive to Barossa
[19:09:22] <jmcp> loke: sydney->perth =~ NY->LA/SF
[19:09:25] <jmcp> just so you know :)
[19:09:41] <loke> jmcp: uh?
[19:09:57] <jmcp> loke: 5+ hour flight for me to get to Perth
[19:10:00] <loke> jmcp: sydney is like twice as far away as perth is from me
[19:10:16] <jmcp> probably only 4.5 hours sg->perth
[19:10:25] <loke> jmcp: yeah. and pretty cheap too
[19:10:55] <jmcp> loke: what sort of prices are you looking at?
[19:11:04] <LeftWing> A few of the Uni's IT staffers went to Perth for a few days to look at VMware.
[19:11:10] <loke> jmcp: was checking the travel ads in the magazine :-)
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[19:11:28] <jmcp> LeftWing: junket!
[19:11:29] <loke> let's see...
[19:12:08] <loke> woah
[19:12:18] <LeftWing> It apparently taught our manager that [a] Oracle on Linux on VMware on x86 is faster than Oracle on Solaris on an E20K and [b] that a good ribbing to give is that it must "take a bit for you Solaris admins to suck up the fact that your Solaris is running on Windows!" (VMware ESX.)
[19:12:27] <loke> S$291 return ticket to perth with royal brunei
[19:12:32] <jmcp> loke: wow
[19:12:40] <LeftWing> He hates UNIX.  Which is good, because we have an almost 2:1 UNIX to Windows ratio.
[19:12:48] <jmcp> LeftWing: does your mgr have clues at all?
[19:13:03] <LeftWing> jmcp: He has the entire IT department firmly stacked up against him because he's a clown.  =P
[19:13:07] <loke> let's check sydney...
[19:13:08] <LeftWing> People are considering quitting.
[19:13:50] <loke> jmcp: not too bad price to Sydney either though... S$409
[19:14:01] <loke> jmcp: (prices excluding tax though)
[19:14:04] <jmcp> loke: sounds like a good price
[19:14:09] <jmcp> ah yes, taxes *will* get you
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[19:14:16] <loke> jmcp: yes. they suck
[19:14:17] <jmcp> probably cost you another AUD300
[19:14:32] <loke> AUD and SGD are about the same, right?
[19:14:35] <LeftWing> He threw out all of our cardboard boxes two days before we had to send back a T2000.  So we had to send it back in a DL385 box.  I think we sent our reseller the wrong message.
[19:15:33] <jmcp> LeftWing: what an idiot
[19:15:48] <LeftWing> jmcp: He's actually Irish.
[19:15:54] <jmcp> no comment
[19:15:57] <LeftWing> lol
[19:16:14] <PerterB> oi!
[19:16:14] <loke> LeftWing: you sure he's not Welsh?
[19:16:24] <LeftWing> Came over here from dublin on a skilled work permit or whatever to work for Telecom many, many years ago.
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[19:16:38] <LeftWing> Since then he's been to Darwin, and into the health insurance industry and now to us.
[19:16:47] <LeftWing> The trail of blood is astounding. =P
[19:17:36] <LeftWing> He's fascinated with PivotTables(tm) and to be honest I just don't think he gets that he's useless.
[19:17:59] <LeftWing> People spend so much time trying to work around him that things actually do get done, which he then thinks he made happen.
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[19:19:32] <jmcp> LeftWing: how much longer before you graduate?
[19:20:10] <LeftWing> 2.5 years.  Potentially longer if I start reducing my subject load. =P
[19:21:06] <jmcp> LeftWing: what's the market like in Newcastle?
[19:21:24] <LeftWing> Good question, I'm self employed. =P
[19:21:43] <LeftWing> I think it's not as dire as people think it is, but it's probably more about who you know than what you know.
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[19:32:59] * LeftWing &
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[20:02:08] <Fish> hello
[20:02:25] <bank> hello
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[21:42:51] <mega> sera
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[21:50:49] <adp> hey everyone
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[22:00:22] <Xh4> adp, 'Sup?
[22:02:50] <Xh4> So like, I wanna see whether or not my hardware's recognized under Solaris... should I be going for SchilliX or Belenix as a liveCD?
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[22:06:51] <quasi> http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/Download might be worth a try as it is based on a very recent nevada
[22:09:20] <Xh4> Hmm
[22:09:21] <Xh4> Thanks.
[22:09:22] * Xh4 gets.
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[22:30:47] <Xh4> Hmm.. slow download.
[22:30:51] <Xh4> I'm only getting 155kb/s.
[22:30:55] * Xh4 cries.
[22:37:45] <elektronkind>  you're not worthy enough for high speeds
[22:38:14] <Xh4> Apparently not. :(
[22:38:23] <Xh4> I only recently got this connection too. :p
[22:38:34] <Xh4> Actually, to be honest, I'm more than happy with 60kb/s+, hah. :)
[22:38:47] <Xh4> I've seen people bitch about 150ish being "low speeds" though. :\
[22:40:44] <elektronkind> that must be people like me, who sit on a two oc-3 and a oc-12 internet2 connection.
[22:42:31] <elektronkind> I'm sorry, it's now a oc-48 i2 connection
[22:42:32] <Xh4> :O
[22:42:38] <Xh4> Whoah dude. :p
[22:43:08] <elektronkind> we have more bandwidth than we know what to do with
[22:43:30] <elektronkind> http://wiki.maxgigapop.net/twiki/bin/view/MAX/Architecture
[22:43:42] <elektronkind> we're the "BALT" part of the ring
[22:46:48] <mrdeviant> what? no NLR connection? :P
[22:47:11] <elektronkind> oh gosh
[22:47:17] <elektronkind> that whole NLR/i2 thing
[22:47:36] <elektronkind> they just need to spend a night in bed together and get it over with
[22:48:28] * Xh4 needs to get into this high speed connection stuff someday.
[22:48:47] <elektronkind> mrdeviant: are you going to be at supercomputing 06 in tampa perchance?
[22:48:50] <Error_404> Xh4: no way man... RS-232 forever!
[22:48:55] <mrdeviant> not likely, no.
[22:49:07] <mrdeviant> i'm not really involved in hpc
[22:49:08] <elektronkind> ah dang
[22:49:32] <Xh4> Error_404, actually, I'm hi-speed ignorant. I mean, I need to inform myself of this stuff. :P
[22:49:51] <Xh4> I'm happy enough with my 1.5mbps. :)
[22:49:56] <Xh4> Soon to be 24mbps. :D
[22:49:57] <Error_404> RS-232 is the opposite of high speed
[22:50:01] <Xh4> I know.
[22:50:02] <Xh4> I could tell.
[22:50:03] <Xh4> :P
[22:50:40] <elektronkind> it sucks how institions can get gobs of bandwidth but anything to the home over 3Mb/s is noteworthy
[22:50:53] <elektronkind> s/institions/institutions
[22:51:06] <elektronkind> damn you, US telcos, damn you!
[22:51:18] * elektronkind shakes a fist at the sky
[22:52:42] * Xh4 burns this OS live CD thing.
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[22:54:10] <dwc-> elektronkind: you can get 3M or 6M from DSL for < $40
[22:54:44] <dwc-> also, the oc12/48s are rather pricey
[22:55:20] <elektronkind> that's the problem. I /can/ get that... in fact, I had 6Mb through speakeasy... but it was unstable, and only stable at 3Mb. The reason is because the pairs coming in to my house have an AM radio station on them.
[22:55:21] <dwc-> the line at my employers is about half of a ds3 ... it's not exactly cheap either
[22:56:52] <elektronkind> I put an inductive line tone tester up to my wires and got AM 1500 coming out the tester's speaker
[22:58:32] <dwc-> so get 'em to fix it
[22:58:52] <elektronkind> this is tough problem to fix, unfortunately :/
[22:58:55] <elektronkind> even for a telco
[22:59:42] <elektronkind> I'm going to try the ol' ferrite ring trick first
[23:06:26] <dwc-> if you're paying for 6m, and they're only getting you 3m, they should either fix it, or give you a discount
[23:06:50] <elektronkind> they dropped me back to a 3Mb account
[23:06:51] <twincest> over here they sell "Up to 8Mbps" ADSL
[23:07:06] <dwc-> "up to" ... if downloading from .... us?
[23:07:17] <twincest> no, "up to" if your line quality is good enough
[23:07:22] <twincest> it can sync at anything from 2 to 8
[23:07:30] <dwc-> not bad
[23:07:52] <richlowe> elektronkind: sure you're not just unfortunately close to a transmitter?
[23:08:20] <elektronkind> richlowe: I am. AM 1500's transmitter is smack dab between my house the CO :/
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[23:09:20] <dwc-> it've got at&t's 3M... it's been sync'ing at 2500
[23:09:28] <dwc-> not willing to pay for the 6m
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[23:53:05] <Xh4> Anyone here know what the username/pass is for that GNU Solaris live CD?
[23:54:40] <Xh4> nvm, found. :p
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