[00:02:20] <_william_> gb
[00:02:21] <_william_> gn
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[00:09:21] <gisburn> UMPF
[00:09:24] <gisburn> xx@@@!!!
[00:09:35] <gisburn> This is frustrating.
[00:09:52] <gisburn> Is there really no SCTP server in the internet which can be used for testing ?
[00:10:01] <jamesd> if it was easy any budy could do it.
[00:10:33] <gisburn> jamesd: it was easy since sctp.org once ran their apache with sctp on port 80
[00:10:41] <gisburn> somehow they dropped that feature
[00:10:44] <gisburn> (which sucks)
[00:10:50] <boyd> gisburn: Maybe if you asked in some forum related to SCTP...
[00:11:12] <gisburn> boyd: any suggestions ? sctp.org's list has become a spam trap since years
[00:11:38] <boyd> gisburn: No idea, but here seems not to be helping
[00:12:27] <gisburn> boyd: yes... I know... ;-(
[00:12:48] <boyd> Shame there's no #SCTP :)
[00:13:14] <boyd> sctp seems really interesting, but there seem to be about 4 people working on it :)
[00:14:36] <gisburn> grumpf
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[00:21:12] <gisburn> boyd: I am close to say there are only three left right now.
[00:21:25] <boyd> :)
[00:21:29] <gisburn> (yes, I am bickering right now again)
[00:22:06] <boyd> 3... including you? :)
[00:22:43] <gisburn> four includes me
[00:22:51] <gisburn> er
[00:22:55] <gisburn> four included me
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[00:23:13] <gisburn> Gman: ping!
[00:23:24] <Gman> hey
[00:23:24] <gisburn> Gman: are you familar with sctp ?
[00:23:31] <Gman> no
[00:23:39] <gisburn> Gman: crap
[00:24:13] <gisburn> Gman: why does Sun pay you when you know nothing ? <bicker><bicker><bicker><bicker><bicker><bicker><rant><bicker>
[00:24:17] <gisburn> xx@@@!!!
[00:24:19] <gisburn> ;-(
[00:24:46] <Gman> indeed
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[00:25:10] 
[00:25:48] <boyd> gisburn: Close those tags, young man
[00:25:53] <Tpenta> gisburn, it's not possible to fall below -273 C ;)
[00:26:00] <Gman> i suggest some hippy happy drugs then.
[00:26:51] <gisburn> Tpenta: wrong
[00:27:05] <richlowe> Gman: evenin'
[00:27:06] 
[00:27:13] <Tpenta> isnt -273 absolute 0?
[00:27:14] <Gman> hi richlowe
[00:27:22] <boyd> Tpenta: ~
[00:27:23] <Tpenta> ok, i was approximating. i was closer than you were ;)
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[00:28:18] <gisburn> Tpenta: in my broken mental universe the temperature has no lower limit.
[00:28:29] <boyd> ... and you want op?
[00:28:30] <Tpenta> :)
[00:28:34] <boyd> :)
[00:28:41] * gisburn senteces Tpenta  to death by komodo dragons for fun
[00:28:52] <gisburn> boyd: no
[00:29:30] <gisburn> boyd: it would be dangerous today because my good is that down that I would do a /kick *@* immediately to kick some fun out of my life
[00:29:38] <gisburn> s/good/mood/
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[00:29:56] <sickness> hey gisburn :)
[00:29:59] <sickness> you in a bad mood? :/
[00:30:28] <gisburn>  /kick sickness
[00:30:33] <boyd> haha
[00:30:35] <gisburn> yes
[00:30:44] <sickness> omg :')
[00:30:59] <boyd> Why bad, gisburn? didn't the arc case pass
[00:32:25] <gisburn> boyd: the next (and bigger) obstachle seems to be code review
[00:33:05] <gisburn> boyd: unfortunetaly some people are looking into the ksh93 code itself and started to make suggestions
[00:33:12] <gisburn> (including cstyle issues)
[00:33:25] <boyd> I'm ignorant, but I'd have thought that code review meant that it was going in, it's just the details that are being looked at
[00:34:11] <gisburn> boyd: mhhh, in theory only the makefiles should be part of the review since AFAIK the same was done for perl, too.
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[00:35:35] <Tpenta> for imported code, I didn't thik we should be looking at cstyle etc
[00:36:05] <boyd> Well,  I think that bugs are fair game, as well as parts which are solaris native (e.g. pfks93) but cstyle on upstream code? nah
[00:38:26] <Gman> i'm sure there's probably some code cleaning that can go upstream
[00:38:31] <Gman> but cstyle seems a little pointless
[00:38:34] * gisburn is in the mood to strangle someone...
[00:38:41] <gisburn> ... any volunteers ?
[00:38:53] <gisburn> noone ?
[00:39:01] * gisburn misses sommerfeld...
[00:41:12] <gisburn> and the thing with the "empty" /etc/ksh.kshrc file was pointless, too
[00:41:32] <gisburn> we added it to have a POSIX-conformant way to add "set -o gmacs"
[00:41:35] <quasi> gisburn: apr has a bit of sctp iirc
[00:41:42] <gisburn> apr ?
[00:41:50] <quasi> apr.apache.org
[00:41:55] <gisburn> aging prehistoric rats ?
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[00:42:46] <boyd> Apache Portable Runtime IIRC
[00:42:47] <quasi> apache portable runtime
[00:42:59] <gisburn> mpf
[00:43:08] * gisburn strangles quasi for fun
[00:43:25] <gisburn> quasi: I am looking for a public sctp server which I can use for testing...
[00:43:46] <quasi> gisburn: ah, good luck then - you'll need it ;)
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[00:45:00] <agliodbs> feh, total loss
[00:45:10] <agliodbs> no store in my neighborhood has a USB keyboard
[00:45:20] <ShadowHntr> wtf
[00:45:32] <ShadowHntr> even like fry's or local computer store?
[00:45:39] <ShadowHntr> figured even walmart would have one :P
[00:46:04] <jamesd> agliodbs, drive over the sun head quarters and beg for a keyboard...
[00:47:18] <ShadowHntr> lol
[00:47:24] <ShadowHntr> i want a type 5 keyboard
[00:47:25] <ShadowHntr> :P
[00:48:08] <boyd> agliodbs: Are you serious! no store! Where do you live? Antarctica?
[00:48:27] <agliodbs> boyd: not without driving somewhere
[00:48:30] <agliodbs> and I'm running out of time
[00:48:56] <Tpenta> what are you running out of time for?
[00:48:59] <agliodbs> I have to cook dinner for guests tonight
[00:49:16] <boyd> And you need a keyboard for that? :)
[00:50:00] <boyd> Oh, do you have one of those internet fridges and it's crashed? :)
[00:50:09] <Tpenta> What I was trying to undertand was , why*must* you have it running today?
[00:50:16] <agliodbs> CEC starts tommorrow
[00:50:27] <quasi> boyd: or desperately trying to look up a recipe online ;)
[00:50:28] <agliodbs> this is a demo machine for the conference
[00:50:47] <agliodbs> somebody else was stupposed to set it up, and I found out at 4:30pm Friday that they bailed
[00:50:52] <boyd> quasi: ... or order home delivery :)
[00:51:01] <boyd> agliodbs: nice.
[00:51:09] <Tpenta> ahhh just looking josh up and realising what he does), demoing postgres at cec?
[00:51:39] <agliodbs> right
[00:51:49] <agliodbs> except maybe I'm not because maybe I don't have a machine
[00:52:28] <Tpenta> surely someone in the demo area could spot you akbd to get set up while you wait for one to get delivered
[00:53:08] <agliodbs> problem is, I have to set this up, get it on the internet, and have a coworker install the demo
[00:53:17] <agliodbs> before delivering it to CEC
[00:53:38] <Tpenta> hmmm
[00:53:41] <agliodbs> so I think I'm going to cancel my talk on Monday and get the machine down to a Sun office tommorrow
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[00:54:11] * Tpenta thinks, there must be a way to get a kbd to you
[00:54:19] <agliodbs> not before dinner
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[00:54:31] <agliodbs> I'd have to drive down to best buy
[00:55:24] <Tpenta> there's no-one you know who you could borrow one from?
[00:56:25] <Tpenta> I'd help you if I could, but I'm still in Australia as the two talks I put forward got rejected
[00:56:38] <agliodbs> not on a Sunday, no
[00:56:45] <Tpenta> including one on opensolaris
[00:56:46] <agliodbs> Monday is just a 10-minute lightning talk
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[00:57:24] <agliodbs> which they didn
[00:57:31] <agliodbs> didn't schedule for me until last week
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[01:01:00] <agliodbs> so it can't be that importnat
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[01:08:12] <agliodbs> anyway, I need to go now and cook dinner
[01:08:13] <agliodbs> later
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[01:31:31] <elektronkind> well that was an experience. rewiring the phone lines of a 60 year old house == not fun.
[01:31:50] <Error_404> it can be
[01:32:00] <elektronkind> which aparently used to also be divvied up into apartments at one point
[01:32:28] <Error_404> assuming "rewiring phone lines" is replaced with "ignoring them & using a cellphone"
[01:32:47] <elektronkind> I wish I could, but my DSL wasn't having it
[01:33:51] <elektronkind> but I think I found the problem, and thankfully it's not mine
[01:34:07] <elektronkind> I get a AM radio station on the pairs coming in off the pole
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[01:44:22] <gisburn> http://www.themeatrix.com/
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[02:46:46] <djgregor> elektronkind: I understand the AM on the phone... I can't use any phone cheaper than about $40-50 b/c the cheap phones don't have good enough filtering to keep out the AM
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[03:11:16] <nachox> err... you have to register for the tech days right? or you can just show up?
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[03:21:24] <Error_404>  i have no idea what /opt/SUNWspro/bin/lint does, but it sure takes forever to do it
[03:22:22] <nachox> checks the code for common errors and indentation, stuff like that i think
[03:23:28] <hile_> 404: man lint
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[03:24:16] <Error_404> "c program verifier"
[03:24:21] <Error_404> well... that was helpful
[03:24:51] <kimc> if you have that kind of AM interference.. you need to install some chokes :)
[03:25:31] <kimc> google: chokes and RF
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[03:31:52] <dclarke> hello
[03:32:07] <jamesd> hi
[03:32:08] <nachox> lo
[03:32:35] <dclarke> tonight is a big night here
[03:32:42] <dclarke> at Blastwave .. anyways
[03:32:47] <nachox> how so?
[03:33:12] <dclarke> for two reasons .. I am getting ready to kick off the third annual beg-a-thon for Blastwave
[03:33:14] <Error_404> yes, explain yourself
[03:33:19] <dclarke> there are no corporate sponsors left ..
[03:33:28] <dclarke> Genesi dropped out last night
[03:33:46] <dclarke> they are not sure of their direction but the PowerPC port seems to have been resurrected anyways
[03:33:48] <Error_404> bunch of jerks
[03:33:51] <nachox> hmm, and how exactly is that good?
[03:33:52] <dclarke> no no ..
[03:34:03] <dclarke> the Genesi people are damn good people
[03:34:16] <dclarke> simply put .. some freakishly huge corporation that I can not name
[03:34:21] <dclarke> owes them a pile of money
[03:34:25] <dclarke> they are trying to collect
[03:34:39] <dclarke> anyways .. after a twelve month term from lat year to this year
[03:34:42] <galt> ahh, SCO
[03:34:48] <dclarke> they finally got to the end of their rope last night ..
[03:34:57] <dclarke> they were 30 days past due on lots of stuff
[03:35:00] <dclarke> or more
[03:35:06] <dclarke> none of my business actually
[03:35:19] <dclarke> what is my business is that I keep their logo front and center
[03:35:26] <dclarke> but there is no more bucks or hardware
[03:35:35] <dclarke> so .. I will have to ship you my unit
[03:35:36] <Error_404> seems like an odd agreement
[03:35:46] <Error_404> what will you use then?
[03:35:50] <dclarke> its simple .. money in .. money out
[03:36:03] <dclarke> when the money in stops .. the money out stops
[03:36:06] <dclarke> easy right ?
[03:36:15] <dclarke> well .. they were always there  .. every month with me
[03:36:21] <Error_404> well, yes... it makes sense from genesi's POV
[03:36:22] <dclarke> I paid for the bulk of every hting
[03:36:27] <dclarke> and they toss in a few hundres
[03:36:32] <dclarke> and they toss in a few hundreds
[03:36:41] <dclarke> I gave them an invoice and life went on
[03:36:46] <dclarke> thats how it works
[03:36:49] <dclarke> simple
[03:36:56] <dclarke> so .. anyways .. they are getting ready for a nother year
[03:37:03] <dclarke> and I am certain that they will come to the tabel
[03:37:07] <dclarke> but .. not yet
[03:37:18] <dclarke> not until the money is flowing for them again
[03:37:29] <dclarke> so .. I'm on my own and thats no biggie .. I have been here beefore
[03:37:47] <dclarke> generally I tossed money around to other open source projects anyways
[03:38:07] <dclarke> so .. when money came in from Genesi I'd toss some to Nexenta or to people that I knew in the open source world
[03:38:13] <dclarke> we all hang together sort of thing
[03:38:21] <dclarke> anyways .. it all stopped about 60 days ago
[03:38:41] <dclarke> add on top of that the pile of crap that Sun dumped on me in the past five months ..
[03:38:53] <Error_404> bunch of jerks
[03:38:54] <dclarke> thank fully the denial of service attack/network abuise stopped
[03:38:54] <kimc> hmm..
[03:39:05] <Error_404> :)
[03:39:07] <dclarke> but at one point .. get this
[03:39:10] <dclarke> you will LOVE this
[03:39:15] <dclarke> Tpenta knows allll the details
[03:39:24] <dclarke> on Sept 1st I had had enough
[03:39:31] <dclarke> I was pissed off and the bills were coming in
[03:39:35] <dclarke> my ISP was yellign at me
[03:39:45] <dclarke> and Sun was dragging 8000 hits an hour or more from me
[03:39:52] <dclarke> so .. I set my ipfilter to block Sun
[03:39:57] <dclarke> all of Sun .. every subnet
[03:39:58] <Error_404> lol
[03:40:01] <kimc> hmm..
[03:40:05] <dclarke> everywhere .. world wide
[03:40:16] <dclarke> after about a day of that people started asking me questiosn
[03:40:26] <dclarke> like .. dude .. your site ios down !
[03:40:32] <dclarke> no its not .. works fine ..
[03:40:35] <dclarke> works better in fact
[03:40:54] <dclarke> anyways .. we trakced it down to a project inside Sun that was testing software on SunRays
[03:41:05] <dclarke> the guy needed a site that was simple
[03:41:11] <dclarke> no javascript and no flash
[03:41:35] <dclarke> so .. he would have the SunRay fire up .. then start pounding www.blastwave.org about 8000 times
[03:41:46] <dclarke> then he crought up a pile of SunRays
[03:41:50] <dclarke> server after server
[03:41:53] <dclarke> world wide
[03:41:54] <kimc> all it takes..
[03:41:57] <dclarke> I was being _crushed_
[03:42:01] <nachox> hehe
[03:42:04] <dclarke> crushed with traffic
[03:42:15] <dclarke> it nearly saturated a 10 Mbit connection here
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[03:42:25] <dclarke> I was losing my mind
[03:42:31] <dclarke> and this had gone on a long long time
[03:42:34] <dclarke> so .. boom
[03:42:37] <dclarke> ipfilter
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[03:42:54] <dclarke> that was the end of that
[03:42:57] <dclarke> and we fixed
[03:43:03] <dclarke> it and now everything is fine
[03:43:22] <dclarke> I spoke with a few Su nexecs .. they were like "damn man .. wee need to lookinto that"
[03:43:41] <dclarke> anyways ... Its October 1st in 2006
[03:43:55] <nachox> sounds like i could use that guy for a couple of DOS attacks myself :)
[03:43:57] <dclarke> and I need to kick off the third annual Blastwave beg-a-thon
[03:43:58] <dwc-> better way to save on bw is to just stall the conections
[03:44:10] <dwc-> dont' return anything, dont' close the connection, just let it sit there
[03:44:13] <dclarke> ipfilter works great
[03:44:33] <dclarke> my traffic droped back down to a normal healty 30,000 hits a dat or so
[03:44:56] <dwc-> let the connection open, let them send their GET ... and then just stop sending any actual data
[03:44:57] <nachox> dwc-: doesnt that keep the port open in your server as well? and an apache child consuming memory?
[03:45:23] <dwc-> yes it keeps the port open, yes it consumes a small amount of memory, depending on what model you've got apache set in
[03:45:31] <dwc-> but it consumes no bandwidth
[03:45:40] <twincest> with mod_event, it wouldn't use a child
[03:45:45] <twincest> but i don't think that's stable yet
[03:45:52] <twincest> (or you could use lighttpd)
[03:45:55] <dwc-> the clients eventually time out, but it's better than sending them data back, or closing the connection
[03:46:02] <dwc-> which encourages them to just try again
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[03:46:07] <dclarke> look .. its old news and water under the bridge
[03:46:08] <dclarke> its fixed
[03:46:13] <dclarke> life goes on
[03:46:30] <dclarke> on a more constructive note I want to get gtkpod working tonight
[03:46:33] <dwc-> works great for spammers on email relays too :)
[03:46:38] <dclarke> I need to plug in my iPod here
[03:46:49] <dclarke> and see if Solaris 10 will mount it
[03:46:58] <dclarke> so like I said ..
[03:47:02] <dclarke> 2 big things to do
[03:47:11] <dclarke> and gtkpod is my task tonight
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[03:47:25] <dclarke> I'll update the website for the fund raiser tomorrow
[03:47:30] <dclarke> then see how it goes
[03:47:35] <dclarke> simple eh ?
[03:48:45] <nachox> i guess
[03:49:08] <dclarke> look .. I'm reading this crud : http://www.gtkpod.org/README
[03:49:21] <dclarke> how to get automounter to auto mount an iPod
[03:49:29] <dclarke> thats a trick
[03:49:45] <dclarke> also .. wtf does it take to automount or format or whatever a damn USB key ?
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[03:51:06] <dclarke> look at this
[03:51:09] <dclarke> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/6oKNaO99.html
[03:51:24] <dclarke> thats a genuine Kingston DataTraveler II
[03:51:39] <dclarke> I pop it into a USB port
[03:51:47] <dclarke> and the messages log says that
[03:51:55] <dclarke> but .. how does one mount it
[03:52:08] <nachox> if vold is there it should automount it
[03:52:15] <dclarke> huh ?
[03:52:19] <dclarke> let me look
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[03:54:05] <dclarke> bash-3.1# svcadm -v enable svc:/system/filesystem/volfs
[03:54:06] <dclarke> svc:/system/filesystem/volfs:default enabled.
[03:54:08] <dclarke> bash-3.1# volcheck
[03:54:21] <dclarke>  /vol/dev/dsk/c6t0d0/kingston:c
[03:54:22] <dclarke>                           503016       65800      437216    14%    /rmdisk/kingston
[03:54:43] <dclarke> looks good .. okay
[03:54:51] <dclarke> bash-3.1$ ls -lap /rmdisk/kingston
[03:54:52] <dclarke> total 66
[03:54:53] <dclarke> drwxrwxrwx   1 dclarke  csw        16384 Dec 31  1969 ./
[03:54:54] <dclarke> drwxr-xr-x   3 root     nobody       512 Oct  1 21:52 ../
[03:54:56] <dclarke> drwxrwxrwx   1 dclarke  csw         8192 May 15 16:11 flash/
[03:54:57] <dclarke> drwxrwxrwx   1 dclarke  csw         8192 Jun 12 18:51 src/
[03:55:11] <dclarke> well .. that was easy
[03:55:15] <dclarke> now .. gee ..
[03:55:20] <dclarke> let's try an iPod
[03:56:01] <nachox> indeed, but dont get too used to it, vold will be replaced as part of the Tamarack project
[03:56:51] <dclarke> yeah .. what ever
[03:56:58] <dclarke> that won't happen anytime soon
[03:57:01] <dclarke> right ?
[03:57:15] <dclarke> Sol 10 Update 2 is probably fairly stable
[03:58:05] <dclarke> hey .. cool
[03:58:10] <dclarke> just noticed something
[03:58:29] <dclarke> the Kingston Data traverler just appeared on the desktop
[03:58:30] <nachox> sonner than you think, the eol of vold should have been announced in solaris 10 u2 according to the tamarack proposal
[03:58:38] <dclarke> damn ..
[03:58:49] <dclarke> well I have the beta docs for Solaris 10 update 3 here
[03:58:54] <nachox> i dont know if it actually has though
[03:58:59] <dclarke> and I don't see it listed as an end of feature
[03:59:08] <dclarke> so .. I have some time
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[03:59:22] <jamesd> shouldn't any replacement also  deal with  flashdrive/mp3 players seemlessly?
[03:59:26] <Gman> OpenSolaris Weekly News #31 - http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-announce/2006-October/000278.html
[03:59:45] <nachox> dclarke: check part 8 http://opensolaris.org/os/project/tamarack/proposal.txt
[04:00:05] <nachox> hey Gman =)
[04:00:22] <dclarke> oh hell ..
[04:00:31] <dclarke> okay .. thats a "tomorrow problem"
[04:00:42] <Gman> hi nachox
[04:00:47] <dclarke> for tonight .. I'll deal with this iPod here and what I have to work with
[04:01:08] <nachox> Gman: i guess you should know, how is the hald port going?
[04:01:27] <Gman> nachox, supposed to be targetting build 50
[04:01:30] * Gman hopes it doesn't slip
[04:01:52] <nachox> wow, closer than i thought
[04:02:21] <nachox> well, hald and some other crap is what is supposed to replace vold so it really is a "tomorrow problem"
[04:02:52] <Gman> yeah
[04:02:58] <kleppari> is it normal to only get about ~20MB/s read performance from a zfs raidz volume with 3 IDE133 disks?
[04:03:01] <Gman> should be happening 'real soon now'
[04:03:15] <jamesd> kleppari, no..
[04:03:35] <kleppari> jamesd, got any ideas on how to kick it up? :)
[04:04:13] <jamesd> are  you using each drive whole instead of slices?
[04:04:20] <kleppari> yeah
[04:04:25] <kleppari> or at least, I think so
[04:04:47] <nachox> Gman: hald is just the backend, what about the gnome front end (that would be gnome-vfs i think) are you guys also targeting b50?
[04:04:56] <kleppari> just did a zpool create raidz c0d1 c1d0 c1d1
[04:04:59] <kleppari> or something in that direction
[04:06:06] <jamesd> i get 12MB/s  on a single 80GB ide drive without DMA enabled..  its just a slice.
[04:06:42] <jamesd> are you using a recent version?
[04:06:51] <kleppari> build 46
[04:07:18] <nachox> jamesd: why is dma disabled?
[04:07:31] <kleppari> and..  how do you make sure DMA is enabled? :)
[04:07:47] <kleppari> I want dma to be turned on if it's off very quickly :)
[04:07:53] <jamesd> because when you don't give zfs a full disk it doesn't enable  dma  or so i have heard
[04:08:06] <nachox> i think it doesnt enable the caches
[04:08:09] <kleppari> how can I fix that? :)
[04:08:30] <jamesd> oh wait its  drive caching.. i got it mixed up..
[04:08:36] <nachox> :)
[04:08:55] <kleppari> ok, how do I tell it to start using caching?
[04:09:20] <nachox> just give the pool the full disk
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[04:09:32] <kleppari> I give it full disks..
[04:09:48] <nachox> or create an ufs filesystem and then create a big zfs file ;)
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[04:10:03] <kleppari> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6322205
[04:10:08] <kleppari> "See comments for details"
[04:10:11] <kleppari> ..what comments?
[04:10:21] <nachox> well, i'm off for a sec
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[04:11:04] <kleppari> ah, cool, found a blog on it
[04:13:59] <elektronkind> zfs does not enable disk write cache if it does not have complete use of a drive
[04:14:12] <elektronkind> if it does, write cache is enabled for that drive
[04:14:24] <kleppari> how can I make sure it is?
[04:14:31] <kleppari> I'm pretty sure zfs has whole drives
[04:15:13] <jamesd> zpool status
[04:16:18] <kleppari> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VAiPKF90.html
[04:17:25] <kleppari> of course, I can't use format -e, because that only works on SCSI disk caches
[04:17:48] <djgregor> keppari: what kind of disks?
[04:17:50] <jamesd> those are full disks... no slice is specified :-)
[04:18:05] <kleppari> djgregor, western digital ones, with 8MB cache, IDE133
[04:18:11] <djgregor> ah, so ATA
[04:18:28] <kleppari> when these disks were used on Linux, I could get ~60MB read performance out of each
[04:20:03] <djgregor> I don't think that ZFS will end up enabling the write cache on these drives, because the ATA driver doesn't seem to support DKIOCSETWCE
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[04:20:13] <djgregor> but write cache is enabled by default on ATA drives
[04:20:18] <kleppari> yeah, must be something else
[04:20:28] <djgregor> well, and you said read performance
[04:21:19] <djgregor> if they are on the same controller, you might be running into the issue that ATA generally only handles one IO per controller at a time
[04:21:44] <elektronkind> but he said he gets better perf under linux
[04:21:48] <djgregor> And if you have multiple in a ZFS pool, I can see that striping + one IO per controller penalty might hurt you
[04:22:19] <djgregor> vs. just doing bulk reads from a single drive
[04:22:50] <kleppari> so, using three devices, each capable of 60MB/s read performance, in a raidz, brings total read performance down to 20MB/s?
[04:23:21] <elektronkind> how were you using them under linux?
[04:23:26] <elektronkind> software raid5 ?
[04:23:33] <elektronkind> or no raid at all?
[04:23:39] <kleppari> no, just single drives, no raid at all
[04:24:15] <elektronkind> 1/3 decrease in io performance sounds about right then
[04:24:23] <trede> can be that the drivers for the controller are not that good ?
[04:24:52] <kleppari> goddamn I need to get another drive and turn this into a raid1 mirror
[04:25:53] <elektronkind> with raid5, raidz, raidz2... remember... with any of those you will definitely have a performance into reliability trade-off
[04:25:54] <djgregor> trede: a lot of ATA controllers can't handle more than one IO at a time, and I know that some ATA drivers (in particular, Linux) defaults to only issuing a single IO at a time to a generic ATA controller.  Not sure what Solaris does.
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[04:26:12] <trede> well i know that djgregor.
[04:26:21] <djgregor> kleppari: I would try it with a single disk and see how it goes
[04:26:55] <trede> but if having one HD per ata channel it should work quite good,
[04:27:07] <elektronkind> so yes, the best is raid1/1+0, where you can have max reliability and max speed at the expense of space.
[04:27:08] <kleppari> I gote some of these errors:
[04:27:13] <kleppari> Oct  2 02:17:49 saint   primary label corrupt; using backup
[04:27:14] <kleppari> Oct  2 02:17:49 saint cmlb: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING: /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f,1/ide@1/cmdk@0,0 (cmdk2)
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[04:27:27] <kleppari> since fixed, offlined the disk from the zfs pool and fixed it with format
[04:27:54] <kleppari> didn't affect read at all
[04:28:21] <kleppari> so, 20MB/s from these three drives is about as good as it gets for raidz?
[04:28:27] <trede> so what chipset / controller is it ?
[04:28:33] <elektronkind> modern cpus have no problem recreating from parity
[04:28:48] <kleppari> onboard some asus mobo
[04:28:51] <kleppari> nothing fancy
[04:28:56] <elektronkind> chipset?
[04:29:13] <kleppari> uhm, I'm not sure how to find out :)
[04:29:44] <elektronkind> it's likely prominiently listed on the box your mobo came in ;)
[04:30:15] <kleppari> bah, was hoping if it was possible to see from within Solaris, am in no mood to stand up :)
[04:30:20] <twincest> lspci
[04:30:24] <twincest> er, scanpci i mean
[04:30:35] <trede> well i guess its the open source drivers or so that is not that optimized in this case ?
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[04:31:16] <trede> do a google about the driver and chipset/controller and  performance + solaris ?
[04:31:42] <trede> if its that bad, other people must been spaming some forums or so about it
[04:31:55] <kleppari> twincest, I've got neither of those commands..
[04:32:02] <twincest> try /usr/X11/bin or so
[04:32:13] <kleppari> ah :)
[04:32:20] <kleppari> a weird place :P
[04:32:26] <twincest> yeah, its part of Xorg
[04:32:38] <trede> open the comp case and read the MB name =)
[04:32:47] <kleppari> trede, that would including standing up :)
[04:32:59] <trede> ack. youre right
[04:33:28] <kleppari> it's a K8T800Pro chipset..
[04:33:33] <kleppari> Via
[04:33:55] <kleppari> Via VT8237 southbridge
[04:34:02] <trede> and youre using  the chipset  ata controller  or  another one ?
[04:34:21] <kleppari> chipset ata
[04:38:21] <kleppari> just seems to me that the driver is the killer here
[04:38:31] <kleppari> seems to be fairly 'incomplete' for this chipset, too
[04:39:47] <trede> well you can compare the fast linux drivers with the solaris ones
[04:39:55] <jamesd> kleppari, perhaps you should post to zfs-discuss... perferably with  benchmark results
[04:40:01] <trede> and perhaps speed it up some ? =)
[04:40:28] <kleppari> trede, I'm just getting to know the source base
[04:40:33] <kleppari> *just* beginning to hack about
[04:40:40] <kleppari> that would be step two, your suggestion that is :)
[04:40:56] <trede> the source code probably has info  regarding how  finished the drivers are ?
[04:41:02] <trede> hehe
[04:42:42] <dwc-> 60mb/s on a single spindle ide? that doesn't sound  right
[04:43:03] <trede> sure does, its quite normal today  for sequential reads.
[04:43:51] <trede> the fastest drive today tops out at  85 -> 130 MB/sec for sequential reads. thats the seagate cheetah mk5.
[04:45:07] <jamesd> my 250GB sata drive does  about 65MB/s
[04:45:47] <trede> using more spindles does not help  transfer speed ,  since only ONE head is used a time anyhow.
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[04:47:34] <dwc-> 130MB/s sustained or burst
[04:47:39] <gisburn> good night
[04:47:40] <trede> sustained.
[04:47:41] <gisburn> bye
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[04:48:08] <dwc-> and that's ata133?
[04:48:12] <trede> starts at about 85 at slowest part of disk and ends up at ca 130 at the outer part of the disc
[04:48:24] <trede> i said seagate cheetah P
[04:48:51] <kleppari> Average    cmdk0             0     0.0       1       2     7.0     8.4
[04:48:52] <kleppari>            cmdk1            48     8.8      70   10362   111.9    13.4
[04:48:52] <kleppari>            cmdk2           100    33.3      86   13913   365.4    23.3
[04:48:52] <kleppari>            cmdk3            89    24.7      72   10857   316.8    24.5
[04:48:55] <kleppari> this is the sar report
[04:49:02] <kleppari> cmdk0 is the system disk
[04:49:14] <kleppari> cmdk1-3 are part of that zfs pool
[04:49:15] <trede> its 15k rpm scsi mk5 version  of cheetah i mean
[04:49:46] <trede> www.storagereview.com  has plenty of high quality info regarding hd performance
[04:49:55] <dclarke> any one have a clue about USB devices ?
[04:50:06] <dclarke> like why one shows up as unnamed ?
[04:50:13] <dwc-> whoops, time to get the food off the bbq
[04:50:24] <dclarke>  /vol/dev/dsk/c7t0d0/unnamed_rmdisk:c
[04:50:26] <dclarke>                          1907984      241072     1666912    13%    /rmdisk/unnam
[05:00:07] <kleppari> ah, seems like, after reading up on raidz, that raidz performance sucks
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[05:01:58] <elektronkind> you should pose yur questions to the zfs-discuss list. all the main developers of zfs are on it and probably would be happy to address you questions.
[05:04:07] <Gman> that opensolaris dev conf surprises me
[05:04:16] <Gman> no one seems to know anything about it :/
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[05:33:16] <Error_404> bloody hell, why is this machine utterly incapable of building O/N
[05:34:49] <Gman> heh
[05:35:05] <Gman> hope you're writing up your experiences somewhere :)
[05:41:25] <Error_404> yeah, i've got failure reports spread all over the place
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[05:43:50] <Error_404> i'd keep a blog... except i usually need to be reminded to blog
[05:44:09] <Error_404> it doesn't usually occur to me "hey, rather than bitching about this in your head... write it down"
[05:44:41] <bank> Gd morning Error_404
[05:45:21] <Error_404> yo
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[06:19:06] <dclarke> I'm making progress here with the ipod
[06:19:09] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/gtkpod/
[06:21:25] <Error_404> http://sickedank.com/raid.jpg
[06:21:26] <Error_404> heh
[06:21:31] <Error_404> beginners guide to RAID theory
[06:21:56] <dclarke> love it !
[06:22:41] <jamesd> i posted that to my blog over a year ago.
[06:22:50] <mustang> and RAIDZ is a seatainer full of bottles with a tap on the door ?
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[06:26:30] <jamesd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H6DSoqZz_s
[06:43:52] <bank> :|
[06:53:33] <Error_404> anyone have a tivo?
[06:54:20] <Error_404> i'm wondering if you can program it via network... i don't have a TV
[06:54:31] <jamesd> Error_404, yes as soon as you send me yours, that you are obviously  frustrated with.
[06:54:38] <Error_404> i'm not frustrated
[06:54:47] <Error_404> nor do i have one for that matter
[06:54:54] <Error_404> just considering it
[06:55:05] <galt> Error_404, it has a web interface, so yes
[06:55:14] <Error_404> okie, all i needed to know
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[07:08:07] <axisys> we have sol 8 with BIND in chroot env and with ipf.. we are moving to sol 10.. planning to use zones for BIND .. where should ipf go? on global or non-global zone.. i use same phy interface
[07:08:39] <jamesd> axisys, ipf has to live in a zone...
[07:08:43] <jamesd> er  global zone
[07:10:01] <axisys> well the non-global has its own public ip
[07:10:21] <axisys> ipf can put rules for non-global from global?
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[07:21:19] <axisys> after thinking thru a little .. ipf does not really need to care of zone ,, all it cares is the IP plus virtual interface .. which is accessible from global .. cool part is it already comes with sol 10 u2
[07:21:24] <axisys> jamesd: thnx
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[07:22:27] <tuxvix> hello
[07:23:02] <tuxvix> Does any one know where can I get just all common libraries,  http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/on/usr/src/uts/common/
[07:23:07] <tuxvix> zipped
[07:23:11] <tuxvix> or rared
[07:23:13] <tuxvix> or gz
[07:24:12] <tuxvix> anyone?
[07:27:52] <kleppari> all common libraries?
[07:27:56] <kleppari> wah?
[07:28:42] <tuxvix> =) yeah
[07:28:55] <tuxvix> I need it for Dev-CPP program.
[07:29:26] <tuxvix> Well at least all netinet, net, sys
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[07:35:48] <bank> axisys: what do you mean "cool part is it already comes with sol 10 u2 " ?
[07:36:06] <bank> Is that you mean "BIND already come with sol10"
[07:37:54] <axisys> both bind and ipf comes with sol 10 u2
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[08:03:59] <asyd> \_o<
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[08:23:59] <quasi> morning
[08:24:18] <asyd> hello quasi
[08:25:11] <quasi> hey asyd
[08:25:37] <asyd> I start to play with openssl, I think I'll have some headaches ;p
[08:27:58] <quasi> indeed - the source can be a bit scary ;)
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[08:41:29] <quasi> asyd: it might be worth getting the ora book on openssl (even if it is getting further and further behind)
[08:41:53] <asyd> ora book ?
[08:42:42] <asyd> oreilly ?
[08:43:28] <asyd> if yes, I have it, and hmmm, dunno if it's me or what, but I really dislike it.
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[08:46:18] <quasi> it isn't fabulous
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[09:13:09] <bank> scea
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[09:21:54] <bank> hi jmcp
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[09:52:56] <bank> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/downloads/20060929/ what this different from docs.sun.com?
[09:53:09] <bank> (opensolaris version?)
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[10:50:06] <ZeuSun> currently , in http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/
[10:50:06] <ZeuSun> there is
[10:50:07] <ZeuSun> on-src-20060925.tar.bz2
[10:50:40] <ZeuSun> any idea if today they should put there a new version
[10:50:54] <ZeuSun> because b50 close gate is 2 october 2006
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[10:54:46] <quasi> ZeuSun: source takes a while from "close gate" to reach the outside world
[10:56:13] <ZeuSun> quasi, but you dont mean the WOS date i assume ? i mean it will probably released before it?
[10:57:35] <quasi> on the page with dates for "close gate", there's another date for each build - that's when things should hit osol.org
[11:00:04] <ZeuSun> this is exactly what I meant ! there is a second column there,  titled "Delivery to WOS "
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[11:00:08] <richlowe> there will be a snapshot tomorrow (tuesday).
[11:00:19] <richlowe> the b50 source should be the tuesday after b50 delivers to the WOS
[11:00:21] <ZeuSun> I mean in the osol scehdule : http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/onnv_schedule.txt
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[11:00:48] <ZeuSun> richlowe, I see
[11:02:08] <richlowe> the difference between tomorrows snapshot and b50, will be anything that got added to b50 after the fact to fix any particularly vicious problems, or the like.
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[11:03:20] <quasi> b49 should probably have enough new bits to keep most people busy for a while ;)
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[11:19:41] <sickness> morning all
[11:21:44] <Gr|ffous> A bit like the Linux RC1 cut off by the sounds of things
[11:31:17] <bank> morning sickness
[11:31:27] <bank> it's evening here.
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[11:55:13] <sickness> I'm back! I just renewed my annual subscription to the gym! :)))
[12:00:40] <Gr|ffous> lucky you
[12:00:51] <Gr|ffous> I went for a run after work, but that's about the best I think I'll manage
[12:01:59] <sickness> well being unemployed, time is my luxury ;)
[12:02:40] <bank> jealious
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[12:02:50] <sickness> :)
[12:03:03] <bank> I work in jail.
[12:03:45] <bank> :P
[12:03:55] <sickness> omg
[12:04:22] <Gr|ffous> erm
[12:05:13] <Gr|ffous> unemployed and paying for the gym. There is something wrong with this picture
[12:06:48] <sickness> well, I'm in the middle of changing job, so I don't have the old job anymore but I got a lot of money as departure... and I'll have a new job in some time, so I enjoy freedom in the middle =)
[12:07:12] <Gr|ffous> ah yes
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[12:09:18] <bank> I will end my internship this friday I hope.
[12:10:20] <Gr|ffous> in jail...
[12:10:31] <bank> just kidding.
[12:10:39] <bank> :-D
[12:11:23] <bank> next month I will back to university and do senior project.
[12:11:30] <Gr|ffous> ah..
[12:15:16] <bank> I would like to install this http://www.jboss.com/products/jbossweb on solx86 but there are no binaries for sol x86 may I use sparc?
[12:15:54] <bank> Solaris Sparc package or Linux AMD64 package ..
[12:16:45] <Gr|ffous> a sparc binary isn't going to run under x86 sorry
[12:17:02] <asyd> bank: the linux x86 will probably work
[12:18:12] <bank> oopssss
[12:18:17] <bank> sparc version work!
[12:18:18] <bank> http://61.19.242.219:8080/
[12:18:40] <Gr|ffous> odd, very odd
[12:18:48] <asyd> well, it's java
[12:19:12] <bank> no .. jmx console is broken
[12:21:16] <bank> is that because of binary or ... the software itself?
[12:22:38] <triplah> if any part of the binary has sparc machine code, it will not run
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[12:23:56] <bank> Does brandZ is different from ordinary zone?
[12:23:58] <kimc> helloo opensol
[12:24:25] <bank> may be I dw linux binaries and run on it.
[12:24:58] <Gr|ffous> bank, I think the idea was that they should work much the same, but I've never used it
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[12:27:34] <bank> hello
[12:27:50] <Gr|ffous> welcome back
[12:28:17] <bank> so I will try linuxi686
[12:30:28] <bank> if I have   www.bank.com , ns1.bank.com , ns2.bank.com point to the same ip  (a.b.c.d) here I can create subdomain by myself  by add into BIND configuration?
[12:31:11] <asyd> ns1 and ns2 to the same IP ? ;p
[12:31:24] <kimc> you can create anything on your own nameserver
[12:31:25] <Gr|ffous> er. if I understand you correctly, yes
[12:31:48] <bank> sorry for my grammar, I wil take a TOELF course asap :P
[12:32:30] <kimc> by favorite restaurant in Detroit is Sala Thai :)
[12:33:35] <bank> this will done automatically? Do i have to told other nameserver? ..  because Now I have www.bank.com specify a.b.c.d and ns1.bank.com , ns2.bank.com /// then .. what should i do next? do I need to told some one else?
[12:33:56] <bank> ( those configuration done at domain register control panel)
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[12:34:25] <bank> kimc: Sala Thai ? where is Sala Thai ? on Sala deang ? :P
[12:34:31] <Gr|ffous> that's all you need to do
[12:35:12] <Gr|ffous> *.bank.com should now be pointing at your a.b.c.d. So as long at your bind @a.b.c.d knows about lookatme.bank.com, if will resolve
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[12:40:02] <bank> I am currently read through http://everythingsolaris.org/articles/dfd/frameset.html
[12:40:57] <bank> I create named.conf, named.ca , named.local by the content in that web.
[12:41:38] <bank> so now I start by create a zone for a.b.c.d right?
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[12:44:14] <Gr|ffous> well you don't make zones for IPs, you make zones containing dns records that POINT at IPs
[12:45:24] <bank> errr..
[12:45:36] <bank> Do you have any suggest reading?
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[13:05:24] <kimc> bye..
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[13:06:15] <chemaja> please do correct me if this question is inappropriate, but is nexenta not as popular as one would imagine? over the last couple of days, #gnusol has been rather quiet. are you all mainly nevada-type folk, or what?
[13:07:35] * chemaja reads
[13:07:41] <chemaja> aah, Solaris Express.
[13:07:46] <chemaja> my bad
[13:07:51] * chemaja backs away slowly
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[15:31:03] <jteo> hmm. everything seems to be in order with my capeye Install.
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[15:31:18] <jmcp> good stuff
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[16:47:43] <jteo> wb jamesd
[16:47:59] <jamesd> thanks
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[16:51:49] <Error_404> gack....
[16:52:16] <Error_404> ld: fatal: dlopen() of support library (/tmp/lib_base_link.852461/libldstab_ws.so) failed with error: ld.so.1: ld: fatal: /tmp/lib_base_link.852461/libldstab_ws.so: open failed: No such file or directory
[16:52:21] <Error_404> dmake: Warning: Target `all' not remade because of errors
[16:52:31] <Error_404> screw it, i give up
[16:52:40] <Error_404> i'm just using the BFU archives
[16:54:44] <elektronkind> I've decided to forego those too
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[16:55:28] <Error_404> no, i mean i can't get it to compile
[16:55:51] <Error_404> when it was in /home, it failed with wierd errors, likely something to do with I/O failures on a zfs mirror
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[16:56:08] <Error_404> gave it it's own drive, now it won't link
[16:58:17] <jteo> hmm. how do i get "dmake all" to build non-debug?
[16:58:38] <Error_404> remove -F and -D from the build script, and use the -nd closed bins
[16:59:49] <jteo> that's for nightly(1).
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[17:03:05] <Error_404> brb
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[17:10:03] <bank> hi
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[17:21:30] <bank> ...
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[17:24:00] <jamesd> hi
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[17:26:25] <richlowe> the same spam message reached 4 or 5 different aliases?
[17:26:27] <richlowe> for shame.
[17:26:32] <stevel> it reached a bunch
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[17:31:33] <quasi> This message posted from opensolaris.org
[17:31:40] <delewis> oh, lovely.
[17:31:45] <delewis> spam, spam, spam.
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[17:32:11] <delewis> at first, from the output of fetchmail, I assumed the latest CDDL question had 'detiorated' :-)
[17:32:12] * quasi got 15 so far
[17:32:39] <richlowe> once again, the obvious benefits of disconnecting jive from the lists becomes apparent.
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[17:33:19] <richlowe> Wait, one hit osol-arc, too.
[17:33:30] <richlowe> posts via *jive* aren't moderated, but yet we spent a week fighting stupidity with the *REAL* interface?
[17:33:31] <delewis> looks like they spammed at least half if not more of the aliases
[17:34:30] <richlowe> somewhere, either a moderator, or someone who had a "bright idea", needs to be taken out back and beaten.
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[17:40:57] <quasi> web interfaces to mailinglists are evil - if people can't figure out how to use a real mail client to send their responses, then they probably shouldn't even bother
[17:42:50] <tsoome> internet is the web....
[17:43:41] <delewis> I really only use this web interface for browsing through messages
[17:43:44] <delewis> never sending
[17:44:36] <quasi> delewis: exactly
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[18:34:21] <gdamore> hi *
[18:35:22] <sickness> hi gdamore
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[18:43:03] <bank> hi
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[19:26:22] <tsoome> does anyone have md5 for sol-10-u2-ga-x86-dvd.iso ?
[19:26:49] <tsoome> sun download site seems to have problems...:(
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[19:28:32] <quasi> tsoome: I'll calculate one for you
[19:29:08] <sickness> I can calculate one too, if only I'd know the solaris command to do that =)
[19:29:21] <tsoome> digest -a md5
[19:29:24] <quasi> sickness: digest -a md5 file
[19:29:33] <quasi> # digest -a md5 sol-10-u2-ga-x86-dvd.iso
[19:29:33] <quasi> 6d7e289edeff598c64b5e374a6b97865
[19:29:56] <tsoome> thnx!
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[19:30:41] <sickness> $ digest -a md5 sol-10-u2-ga-x86-dvd.iso
[19:30:42] <sickness> 6d7e289edeff598c64b5e374a6b97865
[19:30:45] <sickness> seems to be the same :)
[19:32:13] <tsoome> mkay, I have the correct file as well
[19:32:53] <tsoome> so the stupid 4100 management sw is just faulty:)
[19:33:25] <tsoome> and so I have motivation to learn to use live upgrade:)
[19:34:19] <quasi> live upgrade is nice
[19:34:37] <tsoome> I guess so:)
[19:35:04] <quasi> if you planned the space for it when you installed the box that is
[19:35:09] <tsoome> it makes me a little nervous, though....
[19:35:24] <glagasse> tssome: why does it make you nervous?
[19:35:33] <tsoome> I have mirrored system with / and swap, so there is a plenty of space
[19:35:54] <tsoome> I don't want to end up with restore from backup:)
[19:35:57] <sickness> I used it for the first time a little time ago, and I have to say that it's so nice!
[19:36:22] <quasi> tsoome: shouldn't be too worrying - we had a few hundred machines upgraded with lu last year
[19:36:35] <glagasse> tssome: that would be hard to do.  It's pretty non-intrusive (designed to be).
[19:36:51] <tsoome> I guess it will work, once I figure out how to use in a correct way:)
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[19:38:47] <quasi> tsoome: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/4ctom?entry=live_upgrade_on_my_laptop seems like a fairly simple explanation
[19:38:48] <tsoome> .oO 10+ years of solaris admin experience  and still learning:D
[19:39:10] <quasi> tsoome: it would get boring if there wasn't anything new to learn
[19:39:17] <tsoome> true
[19:39:32] <bank> :0
[19:39:50] <tsoome> I just have had no real need for lu so far:)
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[19:42:10] <sickness> I used this blog instead as a reference http://hell.jedicoder.net/?p=39
[19:43:08] <bank> I getting angry with persistencecontext in glassfish :(
[19:44:31] <quasi> sickness: ah, that was the one I was looking for
[19:45:19] <sickness> well I also estrapolated the lines of interest and documented the output on my site :P
[19:45:24] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/liveupgrade.txt
[19:45:29] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/liveupgradestep1.txt
[19:45:32] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/liveupgradestep2.txt
[19:45:33] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/liveupgradestep3.txt
[19:45:34] <sickness> :P
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[19:56:38] <Error_404> well, shit.
[19:56:43] <Error_404> my server is a brick now
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[20:00:59] <Error_404> oh, perhaps not, it just never shut down properly
[20:01:47] <sickness> so it seems that you need an hammer for that brick ;P
[20:04:11] <Error_404> brb
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[20:05:08] <Error_404> no hammer, just the delicate touch of a butter knife across the reset pins
[20:05:20] <Error_404> (i never bothered hooking up the front panel)
[20:11:14] <bank> butter knife
[20:13:03] <Error_404> yeah
[20:13:13] <Error_404> short the RST pins on the motherboard
[20:13:30] <Error_404> a delicate operation, but *shrug*
[20:13:37] <Error_404> beats accidently hitting reset
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[20:16:57] <dwc-> isn't that what the big cord going into the back of the machine is for?
[20:17:47] <Error_404> i suppose yeah
[20:24:14] <bank> 3 days with solaris make me always fire "ls" insted of "dir"
[20:25:31] <alanc> "dir" - how quaint
[20:25:36] <alanc> I remember using DOS long ago
[20:26:45] <Error_404> i used it for a couple years
[20:28:21] <bank> :O ... use ant in windows
[20:28:42] <bank> for ex. to build glassfish.
[20:29:14] <bank> so you are working with solaris all days and night?
[20:29:17] <Error_404> *shrug* haven't used windows in ~ 7 years
[20:29:42] * Error_404 checks the year
[20:29:49] <Error_404> yeah, not since '99
[20:29:57] <bank> Oh ......
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[20:30:43] <bank> use openoffice instead?
[20:30:53] <Error_404> instead of what?
[20:30:58] <Error_404> MS office, yeah
[20:30:59] <bank> ms office
[20:31:06] <bank> how about adobe.
[20:31:11] <bank> or ... visio
[20:31:21] <Error_404> i'm not a graphic designer, so i have no use for the adobe suite
[20:31:35] <Error_404> the minor amount of photo touchup i do, the gimp works fine
[20:32:06] <Error_404> as for visio, Dia works fine
[20:32:45] <Error_404> i bought a playstation for games, and windows doesn't really do much else better than UNIX, so i didn't bother reinstalling it when it died that year
[20:33:25] <bank> err ...
[20:36:05] <Error_404> if i needed AutoCAD i might use it again, but i don't do CAE anyways, so what do i care?
[20:39:49] <bank> may be because you working with it.
[20:41:08] <Error_404> working with what?
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[20:41:51] <bank> with opensolaris.
[20:42:25] <bank> I feel very bad when i can't find binary for solx86
[20:42:30] <Error_404> meh, unix is unix
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[20:42:42] <Error_404> blastwave's got a huge repo of packages
[20:42:46] <Error_404> sunfreeware is another
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[20:43:09] <Error_404> or you could just compile whatever you need, there's not much that isn't POSIX
[20:43:10] <bank> it is a kind of package ..
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[20:43:52] <bank> I ever try to build ..
[20:44:04] <Error_404> sunfreeware keeps sysv packages (so you install them with pkgadd), blastwave has an apt-get type installer, and source... " ./configure && make && make install "
[20:44:14] <bank> what I know is (  gunzip , tar xvf , ./configure --prefix , make , make install
[20:44:28] <bank> yes ...
[20:44:53] <bank> but for ex.
[20:45:49] <bank>  I looking for binary of http://www.mono-project.com/Downloads or http://labs.jboss.com/portal/jbossweb/downloads but they don't have.
[20:45:56] <bank> How can I build that ?
[20:46:09] <bank> is that the same formula?
[20:46:14] <bank>  gunzip , tar xvf , ./configure --prefix , make , make install
[20:46:25] <Error_404> why not read the INSTALLING  readmes?
[20:46:33] <Error_404> they tend to be pretty helpful
[20:46:34] <mrdeviant> there is a blastwave package for mono
[20:47:11] <bank> I don't know why  redhat and suse provide binary only for SPARC.
[20:47:17] <bank> :S
[20:47:28] <bank> *novell , redhat
[20:48:24] <bank> There are another reason. The xxx-local.gz need to install in /usr/local
[20:48:32] <bank> then .I have to install that on global zone
[20:48:46] <bank> That make me feel global zone getting dirty.
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[20:49:50] <bank> yes ... I ever search on blastwave .
[20:50:00] <bank> but I dunnno.. It seem to link to another page?
[20:50:20] <bank> for ex. http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/xsp
[20:51:03] <mrdeviant> the xsp package depends on the mono package
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[20:51:36] <_william_> hi all
[20:51:50] <bank> How to use blastwave?
[20:51:59] <mrdeviant> pkg-get -i mono
[20:52:11] <_william_> bank you have a tutorial on the web site
[20:52:14] <Error_404> http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html
[20:52:18] <_william_> what is your exact question ?
[20:52:18] <bank> I see those
[20:52:21] <bank> I am reading.
[20:52:24] <bank> than kyou;
[20:52:25] <Error_404> the "How To" link, right to the left
[20:54:33] <bank> exact question? ... not really question ... just feel hard to install somethings.
[20:54:55] <bank> to delegate deployment stage to solaris.
[20:55:35] <bank> to let it do more task . just that.
[20:56:57] <Error_404> *shrug* i've never had problems
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[20:59:18] <bank> it's 2 am here.
[20:59:23] <bank> gd night evryone.
[21:02:06] <_william_> gd
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[21:34:53] <elektronkind> can anyone here reach http://joostm.nl/ora-smf/ORA_SMF_HEAD/ ?
[21:36:28] <Peanut> Looks like the DNS for joostm.nl is out to lunch - though it might be the DNS for .nl itself as well, our CC-TLD registrar is completely fubar-ed at the moment.
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[21:37:51] <quasi> Peanut: they've probably closed it down for the celebration in leiden ;)
[21:39:51] <Peanut> quasi: no, SIDN declared an 'emergency maintenance window' somewhere this afternoon, and whois.sidn.nl has only just returned.
[21:41:21] <quasi> Peanut: lovely - that sounds like a nice bit of testing in production ;)
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[21:59:31] <elektronkind> so all of .nl DNS is out?
[21:59:37] <elektronkind> that's.... surprising
[21:59:51] <the-decider> perhaps there's a military coup going on
[22:00:40] <elektronkind> or someone's planting tulips in the servers again.
[22:02:18] <dwc-> isn't that why you have redundancy in your DNS infrastructure?
[22:02:46] <dwc-> host -t NS nl. turns up at least a US, an SE, and a FR server
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[22:04:36] <hali> probably poor monitoring, they failed to notice when someone planted tulips in the first servers.. then the secondary got tuliped :)
[22:04:54] <elektronkind> or perhaps worse - "clogged"
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[22:05:09] <alanc> tulips in network servers used to be good things
[22:05:38] <hali> classic DEC chipset
[22:05:41] <Peanut> the-decider: You must have never seen our military :)
[22:06:23] <Peanut> elektronkind: The whois database was out completely, dns as far as I can tell wasn't affected except no updates could be made to it.
[22:08:13] <sommerfeld> electronkind: groan
[22:08:51] <alanc> did they even have 100Mbps tulips or were they 10Mbps only?
[22:09:26] <sommerfeld> the first tulip I had in a computer was a 10/100 card.
[22:09:45] <hali> 100Mbps, dlink even had a quad port card based on the tulip chipset
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[22:12:26] <jamesd> i have a  quad ethernet card that uses the tu driver.
[22:12:47] <jamesd> now just waiting for  the crossbow project to support it in a trunked config.
[22:13:06] <sommerfeld> s/crossbow/clearview/, I think
[22:13:19] <sommerfeld> (or rewrite the tu driver to use gldv3...)
[22:13:21] <jamesd> crossbow says they will support it..
[22:14:30] <elektronkind> there needs to be a magic './gld3conv driver.c' script
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[22:16:42] <gdamore> i doubt strongly that anyone will rewrite tu.  :-)  afe will be rewritten to gldv3 though
[22:17:24] * quasi looks suspiciously at feedbackprograms. - why does the Solaris 10 Update 11/06 page point to u2 images :(
[22:17:32] <gdamore> you can't just automatically convert the driver.  to take advantage of what gldv3 offers, you really want to do it by hand :-)
[22:17:59] <elektronkind> gdamore: hence the "magic" qualifier ;)
[22:18:08] <gdamore> heh. :-)
[22:18:23] <jamesd> i just want...  trunking...  anythig extra is just extra fluff.
[22:18:49] <AbeFroman> !seen stevel
[22:18:51] <Drone> stevel (stevel!n=stevel at 192 dot 18.43.249) was last seen in #opensolaris on Mon 02 Oct 2006 15:26 GMT, saying 'it reached a bunch'.
[22:18:52] <gdamore> is your quad card based on genuine tulip, or something else?
[22:19:42] <jamesd> no clue..  it uses the tu driver... i didn't buy the card, it came in the blade 1500, i got from a friend.
[22:19:56] <gdamore> also, you need support from the switch to get the best benefit from 802.3ad.  you can get outbound trunking with IPMP, but to get inbound you need help from the switch
[22:20:15] <gdamore> send me the PCI device ids. :-)
[22:20:16] <jamesd> yes i have a managed switch that supports trunking
[22:20:23] <gdamore> ah.  okay.
[22:20:37] <jamesd> what is the command to get those again?
[22:20:55] <gdamore> prtconf -vp will get them for you.
[22:22:13] <gdamore> i've not looked at the solaris tu driver lately, but if it is anything like the Linux driver, it will be a frightening mess, owing to all the broken tulip variants it has to support
[22:23:01] <gdamore> (this is why my own "afe" and "mxfe" drivers each support only a small set of tulip clones.  much, much easier to support.)
[22:23:07] <jamesd>               assigned-addresses:  81012810.00000000.00001080.00000000.0000008
[22:23:08] <jamesd>  'pci1186,1110' + 'pci1011,19.41' + 'pci1011,19' + 'pciclass,020000' + 'pciclass
[22:23:08] <jamesd> ,0200'
[22:23:08] <jamesd>                 name:  'ethernet'
[22:24:06] <mrdeviant> are there plans to convert ce to gldv3 ?
[22:24:30] <gdamore> they are genuine DEC tulips (21142s)  amazing.  you can't buy that hardware anymore (and haven't been able to for quite some time)
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[22:24:56] <gdamore> the card is a DLink branded board, btw.
[22:25:29] <gdamore> mrdeviant: i would imagine so.  but ce is not a very friendly driver, it didn't start out gld -- it is a pure DLPI driver
[22:25:32] <jamesd> yeah... drove me crazy trying to get the dlink drivers to wrok
[22:25:55] <mrdeviant> it's also not open-sourced, last i looked. i assume it's somehow encumbered.
[22:25:58] <gdamore> also, the sparc networking group (a different group) has historically been very very resistant to using GLD
[22:26:19] <mrdeviant> why
[22:26:30] <jamesd> great they are going to drag there feet in porting HME driver as well?
[22:26:31] <gdamore> no, its pure Sun IP.  I know the guys who wrote it.  I suspect at least half of the reason it is closed source is 'cause they are embarrassed.
[22:26:38] <gdamore> probably.
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[22:27:21] <mrdeviant> i'm not sure i see the point in converting 10/100 drivers to gldv3. but ce is still shipping on sparcs and many of the pci nics for sparc are ce-based.
[22:27:24] <gdamore> i actually converted hme and gem to GLDv2 while at Sun, to prove that the performance was good.  the sparc networking group didn't care thought
[22:27:58] <jamesd> gdamore, can you release the source to the hme driver?
[22:28:03] <gdamore> gldv3 offers other bits, like trunking and improved link status notification.  it also gets benefits on systems that are very busy.  even 10/100 isworth it
[22:28:16] <gdamore> its not mine to release.
[22:28:35] <gdamore> wow, i'm surprised its closed source.
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[22:29:46] <sommerfeld> the hme driver is open source: http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/on/usr/src/uts/sun/io/hme.c
[22:29:49] <gdamore> the other thing, is that there are code paths that are hot for NICs.  if you have a bunch of shared code, sharing can really reduce cache thrashing.  so converting common DLPI management code is worthwhile
[22:30:22] <gdamore> that makes sense.  I thought it was.  i was surprised it wasn't in sun4u/ though
[22:30:38] <jmcp> sommerfeld: yay!
[22:30:44] <jamesd> i mainly wanted your patches to convert to  gldv3
[22:31:27] <gdamore> two things: first i converted to GLDv2 (not 3).  second, I did it while at Sun, and cannot give them away.  (I am no longer employed at Sun)
[22:32:02] <gdamore> but converting hme to GLDv3 would be pretty easy.  probably take a day or two from an experienced GLD/ethernet driver guy.
[22:32:52] <gdamore> ce is a totally different story thought.  ce is a disaster zone.  reading the source will make your head explode, your eyes burn, and your fingers bleed.
[22:33:00] <jamesd> gdamore, perhaps you can  drop a link to those changes to the  crossbow group, they should be able to make short work to get it upgraded to v3 and made part of their  code should make  crossbow a lot more usable  since many sun systems use hme nics.
[22:33:07] <jmcp> that might explain why so much tuning was required by PTS
[22:33:11] <sickness> evening all
[22:33:23] <jamesd> morning sickness
[22:33:45] <gdamore> i can't do that.  the source was in my home dir at Sun.  i don't have access to it now.  it might be preserved on a backup tape somewhere...
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[22:44:10] <Error_404> hmm... source at sun....
[22:44:19] <Error_404> does sun make you sign an NDA/noncompete?
[22:44:53] <jmcp> NDA as part of the employment contract
[22:44:56] <Error_404> like, all other things aside, if you felt like it could you come home and hack BSD on your own personal time using no algorithms or code from work
[22:45:35] <jmcp> I *think* (ianal etcetc) that that is ok, as long as you could swear to it that you didn't use any NDA-covered information to do so
[22:46:20] <gdamore> E404: in california you can do that no matter what.  NDA still applies, though.
[22:46:33] <Error_404> just curious
[22:46:51] <jamesd> and now you work on  bsd as long as your code you are working on is released under the cddl.
[22:46:56] <alanc> you can't work for a Sun competitor company at the same time you work at Sun, but working on open source is generally allowable as long as you don't contribute Sun-owned IP without permission or otherwise violate existing licenses/contracts
[22:47:11] <gdamore> what alanc said.
[22:47:36] <richlowe> jmcp: up early?
[22:47:55] <gdamore> anyway, i'd rather work on Solaris than BSD.  (I'm doing _both_ at the moment.)  And you can't pay me enough to work on Linux, let alone Windows.
[22:48:10] <Error_404> well, no... not that anyone would
[22:48:36] <gdamore> i still want to do a MIPS Solaris port, btw. :-)
[22:48:36] <alanc> and for some of us, contributing to open source is part of our day jobs, even though helping X.Org or GNOME could end up helping competitors
[22:49:28] <gdamore> that's _sort_ of where i am.  i added a lot of stuff to NetBSD lately as part of my day job (radeon driver, alchemy PCI support, etc. etc.)  and now I'm contributing to OpenSolaris (I hope, still have to get a VP to sign the damned SCA)
[22:49:47] * the-decider wonders how Sun can sell their products when their orderstatus & sun store sites are always so damn slow?
[22:50:11] <Error_404> the-decider: tried calling them?
[22:50:15] <Error_404> you know... phone
[22:50:24] <jmcp> richlowe: yeah, j is off to perth shortly
[22:50:31] <the-decider> ph-what?
[22:50:56] <the-decider> nah, just makes me think they must be running that stuff on Windows or something.
[22:51:12] <jmcp> Error_404: having ordered a box from Sun and it being delayed .... yes, I sympathise with the-decider
[22:51:43] <richlowe> jmcp: that's what you get for being on the wrong side of the planet ;)
[22:51:47] <the-decider> basically, I don't know my order # for the gear, I need to look through all the open orders on our contract to find it... hense the needing the website.
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[22:52:11] <jmcp> richlowe: syd->perth =~ ny->sf
[22:52:19] <jmcp> richlowe: ha!
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[23:00:38] <alanc> the-decider: because sun store is only the lower end of the $ range, and the higher end $$$ goes through sales reps who can trudge through that crap for you to earn their commission
[23:01:02] <alanc> they are working on fixing sun store though, since everyone knows it sucks
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[23:01:41] <jmcp> certainly the price on the ultra20 and ultra20-m2 was damn-near impossible to beat by building myself, or even getting a Dell
[23:01:54] <Error_404> like, 800$?
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[23:02:28] <jmcp> with the config I ordered, AUD1700 which was a good AUD500 less than the best I could come up with
[23:02:49] <the-decider> alanc: yeah; I just happen to be one of those people who doesn't like to talk to his sales minions.
[23:03:17] <Error_404> personally, i want a rackmount machine i can throw 4 drives in for less than a couple grand
[23:03:26] <jmcp> Error_404: I don't have space for that yet
[23:03:56] <the-decider> ...and a T1000 with redundant power.
[23:03:59] <Error_404> apparantly i can build one myself for 5, 600... but nobody actually sells such a beast
[23:04:47] <quasi> Error_404: tyan makes barebone amd and intel cases like that
[23:04:54] <Error_404> x4100 would be perfect, but it's $2000
[23:05:24] <Error_404> tyan, eh?
[23:05:40] <quasi> yeah
[23:06:14] <quasi> but they make a bit more heat than I care for, so you'd probably need fairly decent cooling
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[23:07:26] <jamesd> just buy  cooling equipment designed to cool an xeon, and you should be fine.
[23:08:45] <quasi> 50C measured right behind the psu was a bit scary
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[23:09:34] <quasi> but admittedly, the room was 32 or 33C at the time
[23:13:45] * jmcp heads officewards
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[23:14:26] <quasi> Error_404: http://tyan.com/products/html/barebone_amd.html
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[23:53:59] <yoonix> hello! any device driver developers here?
[23:55:52] <_william_> gn
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[23:56:14] <gdamore> yoonix: yes.
[23:56:34] <Error_404> yum.... lasagne
[23:59:31] <Gman> oh dear, the opensolaris lists got spammed a bit this morning
[23:59:46] <gdamore> yeah, but it was only a few messages.
[23:59:53] <quasi> Gman: I only got 15





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