November 14, 2019 
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November 14, 2019 [00:00:22] <zsj> I'll stick around, I installed indiana and fbsd to make sure what I write is more portable than just lunix. and to see native zfs handling[00:04:36] <zsj> I've been running gentoo for the last 15 years, and on zfs for the last 2[00:06:34] <Reinhilde> i'm pretty sure zol is "native" at least as much as zof or zoi is[00:06:45] <Reinhilde> at the end of the day it's all a kernel module[00:07:36] <zsj> yes, but there aren't any portage hooks for creating a new BE on upgrade, or rollback support in grub[00:08:07] <Reinhilde> zsj: consider adding such hooks and submitting them to the respective project's review board ;-)[00:08:13] <zsj> ubuntu is now getting there, but I'm wary of that new daemon they're writing just for this[00:08:52] <toasterson> zsj (IRC): beadm should compile on linux[00:09:21] <toasterson> you need to analyse the buildenv but the beadm makefile should be callable by itself[00:10:36] <zsj> that's one of the reasons I'm checking indiana and fbsd out, to see how beadm behaves in its native habitat :)[00:10:49] <toasterson> :)[00:11:03] <Reinhilde> freebsd is not exactly the native habitat :p[00:11:35] <toasterson> zsj (IRC): wait until you discover zones and crossbow :)[00:12:31] <zsj> this is one of those things linux copied poorly isn't it[00:12:56] <Reinhilde> LXC was a mixture of FreeBSD jails (which are apparently sabotaged) and illumos/Solaris Zones[00:13:48] <toasterson> well all the integration is missing. zones is a complete framework linux has neither crossbow nor zfs as default. so they are not integrated so seamlessly[00:14:06] <Reinhilde> nobody has actually told me what th f crossbow is[00:14:27] <toasterson> virtual networking layer. vnics and etherstubs[00:14:52] <toasterson> etherstubs= virtual switches like openvswitch but much simpler[00:15:30] <Reinhilde> you have all this advanced s!!t and you don't even have a tun driver in the base system[00:15:39] <toasterson> and all the integration with aggregations (bonds)[00:15:51] <Reinhilde> i... think Sun had their priorities on backwards when they were still around[00:16:26] <toasterson> tun is more kind of an api imho[00:16:49] <Reinhilde> tun is a pseudo device[00:21:12] <zsj> so this is the ubuntu interpretation of zfs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m9VWOjfmdbujV4AQWzWruiXYgb0W4Hu0D8uQC_BWKjk/view#[00:21:55] <toasterson> yeah true. what I meant is tun is more there for userland programs to implement a tunnel without needing to be based in the kernel[00:24:26] <Reinhilde> toasterson: which for the tun type you can do through addresses on the loopback interface (or on an etherstub, on illumos) and 6in4[00:24:38] <Reinhilde> ... i've actually written a partial 6in4 endpoint in userspace before[00:25:28] <toasterson> zsj (IRC): i love how they say solaris had patches for nautilus while we have timslider for current MATE :)[00:26:21] <Reinhilde> isn't timeslider also "patches"[00:27:00] <toasterson> Reinhilde (IRC): etherstub is not the loopback interface. its a complete virtual switch with uplinks and layer2 transport between vnics. sorry if i wasn't clear[00:27:26] <zsj> can't expect ubuntu to pay too much attention outside of ubuntu I guess[00:27:35] <toasterson> jein it is kept as a patch but the code is implemented via the plugin API[00:29:14] <Reinhilde> toasterson: aye[00:29:25] <Reinhilde> toasterson: but for this purpose it's not relevant[00:29:31] <Reinhilde> (if I'm not mistaken)[00:30:11] <toasterson> yep just didn't want to explain core features wrong.[00:30:30] *** aeryndunham <aeryndunham!~quassel@c-73-85-193-185.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has joined #openindiana[00:30:54] <Reinhilde> aye[00:31:51] <Reinhilde> toasterson: but yea you can implement a vpn as a userspace 6in4 endpoint[00:33:42] <toasterson> interesting i need to do some playing with some tunneling protocols at some point[00:35:38] <toasterson> Also this Ubuntu ZFS doc seems quite complex and manually overwrites values which the zfs commands usually set up correctly I am curious if that works out for them[00:36:41] <zsj> yes. also the whole thing about writing a separate daemon just for them and nebulous hopes of upstreaming its functionality because ???[00:38:54] <zsj> it makes me think they haven't sat down and investigated how beadm works on systems it already works on[00:39:07] <zsj> or why[00:39:30] <toasterson> woot we have beadm for that. and that works when the system is still booted for the next boot. why would you want to edit properties at boot.[00:39:57] <toasterson> our boot scripts simply ignore the property[00:40:05] <toasterson> thats what noauto is for...[00:40:41] <toasterson> canmount=noauto only blocks zfs mount -a[00:40:49] *** popgreen <popgreen!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has joined #openindiana[00:40:59] <toasterson> yep[00:41:41] *** arnoldoree <arnoldoree!~arnoldore@ranoldoree.plus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:45:43] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...)[01:03:13] <panorain> :][02:19:58] *** feedbackmonitor <feedbackmonitor!~feedbackm@toroon0952w-lp130-01-174-88-144-239.dsl.bell.ca> has joined #openindiana[02:20:08] <feedbackmonitor> Hello, anyone home?[02:21:35] <feedbackmonitor> Can OI run this on a server? https://www.horde.org/[02:50:41] *** aeryndunham <aeryndunham!~quassel@c-73-85-193-185.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[02:52:28] <feedbackmonitor> Plus, anyone know of a VPS provider that offers OI?[04:46:04] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has joined #openindiana[05:31:04] <feedbackmonitor> Hrm, looks like OI can do it.[06:28:02] *** popgreen <popgreen!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:35:05] *** panorain <panorain!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[06:48:45] <Reinhilde> Could timeslider theoretically work on freebsd?[07:21:52] *** tsundoku <tsundoku!~tsundoku@irc.tsundoku.ne.jp> has quit IRC (Quit: 行ってきまーす)[07:22:56] *** tsundoku <tsundoku!~tsundoku@irc.tsundoku.ne.jp> has joined #openindiana[08:19:11] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[08:19:27] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[08:23:35] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[08:44:27] <toasterson> Reinhilde (IRC): yes it should it's just a patch for caja[08:51:35] *** bavrogar <bavrogar!~swerth@92.64.244.91> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:52:11] *** bavrogar <bavrogar!~swerth@92.64.244.91> has joined #openindiana[08:59:33] <rennj> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/is-there-something-like-timeslider-in-freebsd.12851/[08:59:44] <rennj> FAIK, Sun never pushed their patches to Nautilus upstream, which means TimeSlider is only available in their version of GNOME. There's no other GUI wrapper to ZFS snapshots that I know of.[08:59:53] <rennj> 2010[09:00:26] <rennj> is that the jds foo i wonder[09:01:27] <rennj> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Desktop_System tweaked version of gnome[09:02:03] <rennj> JDS Release 3 was released in 2005. It was included with Solaris 10 ? upon installation of Solaris, one has the choice of using either the CDE or JDS. It was based on GNOME 2.6 and available only for the Solaris 10 platform.[09:02:06] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[09:03:06] <toasterson> rennj (IRC): we have patches for caja and they are a plugin. https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/desktop/mate/caja/patches/01-time-slider.patch[09:04:40] <toasterson> I might be wrong on the plugin part but that patch can easily be used on freebsd[09:05:10] <toasterson> but you'll need caja filemanger. maybe add it to ports?[09:06:14] <rennj> https://www.freebsd.org/ports/mate.html[09:06:24] <rennj> , caja-1.22.1_1,[09:07:13] <rennj> meh cli > gui[09:07:36] <rennj> cron job every 15minutes for snapshots of user homes[09:09:17] <toasterson> rennj (IRC): my only caveat thus far with this, has been that when I wanted to zfs send datasets with snapshots like this I could only rotate the snapshots out after sending. Otherwise I would need to do an incremental send.[09:09:24] <toasterson> *full send[09:11:48] <rennj> like level 5 4 3 2 1 0 tape backups, 0 being the full backup, the rest being incremental...[09:12:25] <rennj> 0 on saturday full...5 4 3 2 1 mon-fri[09:13:17] <rennj> but to restore any file in time..its main point..time slider seems fine[09:24:40] <rennj> so to get to wed restore after the junior admin destroyed the nis+ server on thursday..we put in the 0 5 4 3 tapes...can count on work done on thursday junior admin fat thumbed in.[09:25:37] <rennj> keep 52 weeks of level 0 tapes, and just rotate the 5 4 3 2 1 weekly tapes[09:26:46] <rennj> year of backup for less than 60 tapes[09:36:23] <feedbackmonitor> rennj, Can OI run this on a server? https://www.horde.org/[09:37:02] <rennj> no clue[09:37:12] <rennj> and you already asked once before[09:37:27] <feedbackmonitor> Yeah, and no one answered.[09:37:37] <rennj> why not compile it and find out[09:37:50] <feedbackmonitor> Sure, or I can just ask.[09:38:02] <rennj> $600 solaris 2.5.1 for x86 pentium and it came with no compiler...[09:38:20] <rennj> get off my lan! you kids today have everything[09:39:58] <feedbackmonitor> Sure, but sometimes people can bring insights, ask around, hey--compile with x and not y.[09:40:13] <feedbackmonitor> But it's cool you don't know.[09:40:15] <rennj> money in the banana stand, and there is always virtualbox to run a vm that can run that software[09:41:59] <feedbackmonitor> Is asking questions a no-no, in general for the OI IRC?[09:42:16] <feedbackmonitor> (rukes)[09:42:20] <feedbackmonitor> (rules)[09:42:32] <rennj> haha is it against the CoC[09:42:43] <rennj> i dont know, im just a user[09:43:19] <rennj> the code of conduct magic 8 ball says : ?[09:43:32] <feedbackmonitor> Some channels are strict and some are lax. On Gentoo, they are strict about topic, on slackware we ramble about old TV shows[09:44:13] <rennj> den of villainy[09:45:30] <feedbackmonitor> Sometimes when a channel is slow, I ask something, then ask again when it picks up as new users join[09:48:52] <rennj> https://pasteboard.co/IwuAPBu.png vm's https://pasteboard.co/IDGe0si.png slackware current as of june2019[09:49:05] <rennj> but i run 5.x kernel[09:49:16] <rennj> current isnt on it yet[09:49:41] <rennj> OI i run just like solaris 11.x inside vmware[09:50:14] <rennj> doesnt have optimal drivers for my hardware..craptop..so im not wasting the ipc/watts when i can do better[09:51:01] <rennj> 398MB in-memory os...so its not really slackware other than the rootfs[09:52:16] <feedbackmonitor> Yeah, slackware is realy painfully behind. It's an outrage. They used to an annual release. Not now.[09:53:07] <rennj> i like it..cause i gut it of gnome/freedesktop foo..even more[09:53:30] <rennj> no consolekit,polkit,networkmanager,modemmanager,gvfs foo[09:53:39] <feedbackmonitor> It runs well and stable on old machines, newer machines, not so much.[09:53:59] <rennj> well 5.2.x finally support my amd 2015 laptop[09:54:05] <rennj> only took 4 years[09:54:20] <rennj> amdgpu was el crapo prior..with mesa[09:54:26] <rennj> fglrx was better[09:54:55] <feedbackmonitor> AMDGPU Pro works though, but you have to use ubuntu.[09:55:07] <rennj> 100day uptime in that picturee[09:55:08] <feedbackmonitor> I do pro video editing and used Lightworks[09:55:14] <rennj> x11 100day on amdgpu[09:55:16] <feedbackmonitor> with ubuntu 18.04[09:55:18] <rennj> no crashes[09:55:37] <rennj> the pro driver is just overlays for the amdgpu driver[09:55:46] <feedbackmonitor> Yeah, they did a good job but the drivers on windows are better because that is where the market is. : - ([09:55:52] <rennj> like i said i ran the closed source binary fglrx on this laptop till june2019[09:56:15] <feedbackmonitor> gpupro on slackware was a no-go last I checked.[09:56:46] <feedbackmonitor> Though someone made gpupro for OI, which is pretty awesome.[09:56:50] <rennj> you dont have to use ubuntu[09:57:25] <feedbackmonitor> Ubuntu, Suse and Fedora are sanctioned by AMD for the driver[09:57:38] <rennj> http://i.imgur.com/DPQ7JyK.png fglrx on 4.x kernel..[09:57:47] <rennj> it only was support on 3.x kernels[09:57:58] <rennj> plus older xorg abi[09:58:26] <feedbackmonitor> I like your conky setup[10:00:06] <rennj> powerplay feature just got put in..past year[10:00:20] <rennj> navi 5.3.x[10:00:31] <rennj> im on old ass 2015 amd apu a10[10:01:17] <feedbackmonitor> I got an rx 560 gpu[10:01:19] <rennj> if you got amd you need latest kernel from what i can tell..with mesa foo[10:01:49] <rennj> slackware current with 4.x was crashy...why i did 5.1.11 compile in june[10:06:36] <feedbackmonitor> I do multimedia stuff so there is a version of slackware called studioware I like[10:20:48] <rennj> ill give the 3GB live.iso a spin in vmware...see the stupid for myself[10:23:59] <feedbackmonitor> rennj, not so fast, there is A LOT of installing involved[10:24:10] <rennj> no the live.iso wont be installed[10:24:11] <feedbackmonitor> rennj, it comes with a package manager[10:24:20] <rennj> ill just test it and than quickly rm[10:29:04] <toasterson> feedbackmonitor (IRC): should run it's php after all we have php 7.3[10:29:25] <feedbackmonitor> toasterson, What about the mysql requirement?[10:29:47] <toasterson> maraidb 10.3 is packages or postgres 11 at least[10:30:03] <toasterson> other mysql compatibles are available too[10:30:24] <feedbackmonitor> toasterson, how about this? https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/AMP[10:30:59] <toasterson> old and not maintained[10:31:06] <feedbackmonitor> blug[10:31:31] <feedbackmonitor> so I can use maraidb and it should work?[10:31:41] <toasterson> yep[10:31:55] <feedbackmonitor> toasterson, Ahh, thanks. I was wondering about that.[10:34:27] <feedbackmonitor> saved me some agony.[11:06:06] *** feedbackmonitor <feedbackmonitor!~feedbackm@toroon0952w-lp130-01-174-88-144-239.dsl.bell.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:15:15] *** popgreen <popgreen!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has joined #openindiana[11:15:31] *** popgreen <popgreen!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:45:38] *** _0x5eb_ <_0x5eb_!~seb@seb-hpws2.elen.ucl.ac.be> has quit IRC (Quit: Goodbye!)[12:07:47] *** _0x5eb_ <_0x5eb_!~seb@seb-hpws2.elen.ucl.ac.be> has joined #openindiana[12:21:59] *** arnoldoree <arnoldoree!~arnoldore@ranoldoree.plus.com> has joined #openindiana[12:50:02] *** CaptainTobin <CaptainTobin!~tobin@c-68-38-10-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[13:11:15] *** CaptainTobin <CaptainTobin!~tobin@c-68-38-10-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net> has joined #openindiana[13:51:10] *** _0x5eb_ <_0x5eb_!~seb@seb-hpws2.elen.ucl.ac.be> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:11] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:13] *** trisk <trisk!~trisk@2601:196:4700:3f0b:8:20ff:fe3e:890e> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:34] *** APTX <APTX!~APTX@unaffiliated/aptx> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:34] *** JStoker <JStoker!jstoker@unaffiliated/jstoker> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:34] *** brass <brass!~brass@51.15.113.79> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:34] *** _jack_ <_jack_!uid396411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rfpyscximquwbcfa> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:51:34] *** tomww <tomww!~tom@unaffiliated/tomww> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[13:53:50] *** _0x5eb_ <_0x5eb_!~seb@seb-hpws2.elen.ucl.ac.be> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** brass <brass!~brass@51.15.113.79> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** trisk <trisk!~trisk@2601:196:4700:3f0b:8:20ff:fe3e:890e> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** APTX <APTX!~APTX@unaffiliated/aptx> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** JStoker <JStoker!jstoker@unaffiliated/jstoker> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** _jack_ <_jack_!uid396411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rfpyscximquwbcfa> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** tomww <tomww!~tom@unaffiliated/tomww> has joined #openindiana[13:53:50] *** orwell.freenode.net sets mode: +o tomww[15:24:14] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[15:27:08] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:56:26] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has joined #openindiana[16:48:11] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[19:21:01] *** psydroid <psydroid!psydroidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kixxqbpzpkbnsvsd> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:24:34] *** bavrogar_ <bavrogar_!~swerth@92.64.244.91> has joined #openindiana[19:25:14] *** bavrogar <bavrogar!~swerth@92.64.244.91> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[22:38:00] *** dgtlcmo <dgtlcmo!~dgtlcmo@c-24-61-203-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[23:19:45] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has joined #openindiana[23:23:19] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[23:27:51] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:46:29] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:46:56] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com> has joined #openindiana[23:46:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o alanc