November 13, 2019 
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November 13, 2019 [00:00:11] <rennj> netbsd pkgsrc foo[00:01:22] <ESol5> didnt know about smartos! great ill try it next...whats that about netbsd? I only have seen netbsd installer, never a live system, personally[00:01:33] <rennj> go read, leave me alone[00:01:36] <ESol5> ty[00:01:57] <ESol5> ill leave you alone, i know pkgsrc though...[00:02:11] <ESol5> just not sure why you mentioned netbsd here when im talking live systems[00:02:14] <ESol5> but thanks anyways[00:02:49] <rennj> cause smartos uses netbsd pkgsrc...if you READ[00:02:59] <rennj> you just want point and click distro hopping foo[00:06:35] <ESol5> sure...im pretty sure theres value in people getting quicker answers by asking/answering each other than always searching/reading. And this was after I tried searching for kw's like live/update/etc...maybe if you asked for me to research/answer something for you, you'd be less annoyed[00:08:11] <rennj> you are pretty sure..well good luck with that[00:09:24] <ESol5> sorry I couldnt return the favor then[00:12:14] *** CompanionCube <CompanionCube!znc@sortix/rw-citizenship/companioncube> has joined #openindiana[00:30:56] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has joined #openindiana[00:40:23] <Reinhilde> hark[00:40:42] <Reinhilde> ESol5: well pkgsrc has been devel/oped by netbsd[00:40:50] <Reinhilde> rennj: you seem to be very high cortisol today[00:42:21] <ESol5> i know Reinhilde, and i know pkgsrc runs on many distros/incl solarises...rennj just has a way of writing that makes it ambiguous what hes saying...[00:42:43] <Reinhilde> ESol5: and that's why I wonder if he has high cortisol[00:42:54] <ESol5> stressful day perhaps indeed[00:43:01] <Reinhilde> aye[00:48:33] <ESol5> Reinhilde: any devs hang out here? I dont see any assignees in the bugtracker, that are also in this irc chan and vice-versa[00:51:51] <Reinhilde> ESol5: can you concisly explain your problem?[00:52:26] <ESol5> i see a few from the ml...but I have to open each mail to see people's handle as their real name is often what shows when quick-glancing the ML. Concicely: I was looking for a team/about page with the top devs[00:52:32] <ESol5> concisely*[00:52:43] <Reinhilde> that's not your problem[00:52:46] <Reinhilde> that's trying to find developers[00:52:48] <ESol5> other than aurelien[00:52:50] <Reinhilde> your problem is likely something else[00:52:58] <Reinhilde> #illumos is where the core developers hang out[00:55:05] <ESol5> my problem briefly from earlier: Im looking to use OI live, including update/install pkgs...like many linux distros. pkg install tells me there 30mb only, so a boot parameter to increase virtual/live disk size may be the solution.[00:56:40] <ESol5> But if a tech solution is needed, I was hoping to see if it was by design that OI isnt usable live, even though distrowatch says its in the live medium category.[00:57:50] <ESol5> Reinhilde:[00:59:36] <ESol5> im from linux so most boot parameters i know dont apply here[01:01:13] <ESol5> the 2nd related issue is that pkg update gave me this error : RuntimeError: nobootenvironments[01:01:47] <ESol5> ill keep reading if these are stupid q's[01:07:21] <Reinhilde> ESol5: the IPS depends on being installed on a ZFS filesystem[01:08:59] <ESol5> searching: nobootenvironments live - seems to show results about liveupgrade, though i only see oracle's version mentioned...i doubt its in OI. But as renn pointed out, smartos is also live...so ill see if their implementation works for me, and may try to submit patches if i can[01:23:34] <rennj> man pkg right there ...but heaven forbid READ[01:23:38] <rennj> pkg --no-backup-be[01:23:59] <rennj> also no-be-activate[01:24:13] <rennj> but i doubt on live system with 30MB of ram it matters[01:24:39] <rennj> df -h says what[01:25:07] <ESol5> rennj thanks for continuing to help. I have 10gb ram i just need the filesystem that is rw to be loaded live to be larger[01:25:13] <rennj> df -h |nc termbin.com 9999[01:25:19] <rennj> look the live system OI works[01:25:43] <rennj> hmm no nc[01:26:42] <ESol5> tbh, ive distro hopped for several years, though mostly linux, so a good rosetta stone (translation table) between linux (or debian/ubuntu/archlinux) and solaris would be wonderful, but im still searching.[01:30:19] <ESol5> renn im trying ur cmds ty[01:31:53] <Reinhilde> ESol5: you have to install the operating system to use the IPS (pkg)[01:31:55] <rennj> no nc/netcat so it wont send it[01:32:56] <ESol5> fwiw the linux kernel parameter is ramdisk_size=number, but many distro families have their own parameters like cow_spacesize= for archlinux[01:33:11] <ESol5> ok ty Rein[01:33:24] <Reinhilde> you can't use it on a live system at all[01:33:34] <rennj> toram,copy2ram[01:33:52] <ESol5> toram/copy2ram is a seperate issue rennj[01:34:13] <ESol5> live distros can run and install with or without being run from ram with those two parameters[01:34:17] <rennj> that is linux boot option part of initrd distro make...[01:34:26] <rennj> ubuntu,linux mint support copy2ram[01:34:26] <ESol5> i know rennj :)[01:34:38] <rennj> https://pasteboard.co/IDGe0si.png my os is in ram[01:35:00] <rennj> https://pasteboard.co/IwuAPBu.png and i can run anything x86/amd64 that vmware supports[01:35:56] <rennj> same thing that in-memory os's like vmware esxi, or smartos do[01:36:20] <rennj> 398MB to be exact[01:36:28] <ESol5> slackware! i see you took the easy route ;)[01:36:45] <rennj> no..i use slackware binarys for userland[01:36:55] <rennj> my kernel is 5.1.11 ..slackware is not even on yet[01:37:45] <rennj> and i dont run any of the gnome foo slackware runs on boot[01:37:58] <rennj> freedesktop i should say..[01:38:08] <rennj> consolekit,polkit,gvfs..and such[01:38:17] <rennj> networkmanger,modemmanger[01:38:24] <rennj> oh no systemd..so sorry...[01:40:41] <ESol5> df -h[01:40:42] <ESol5> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on[01:40:42] <ESol5> /devices/ramdisk:a 218M 187M 32M 86% /[01:40:42] <ESol5> swap 4.1G 1.2M 4.1G 1% /etc/svc/volatile[01:41:00] <ESol5> there are more swaps that are emptyish, and /usr/ is 100% full[01:41:34] <rennj> yeah and once you install ..you will have working system[01:42:01] <rennj> or run the live system as is[01:42:08] <ESol5> maybe thats the only way...ill keep searching a bit though...[01:42:11] <rennj> launch firefox watch youtube from live system[01:42:18] <rennj> enjoy[01:42:23] <ESol5> ty rennj[01:42:28] <rennj> hey[01:42:52] <rennj> https://pasteboard.co/H28Fyxr.jpg 15years ago[01:42:58] <rennj> with tv-card working[01:43:15] <rennj> you would need to remaster the iso[01:44:20] <rennj> solaris 10 beta running fvwm windowmanager..rox filer and such[01:45:03] <rennj> pimp ass newsreader even![01:45:06] <rennj> pan[01:46:43] <ESol5> looks like you put a lot of work into that config/setup? doesnt an update/somethingelse eventually break things and force you to reinstall fresh from an iso/img?[01:47:17] <rennj> vm[01:47:23] <ESol5> ah[01:47:59] <rennj> 15 years ago that was on real hardware with a tv-card[01:48:15] <rennj> now i would just do a vm, and pass the card to vm[01:48:43] <ESol5> ah...im guessing you dont like poettering from you avoiding all those freedesktop tools[01:49:03] <Reinhilde> i don't either but I don't quite avoid unfreedesktop that much[01:49:04] <rennj> i dont like solaris10/11 either[01:49:29] <Reinhilde> then why the hell are you here rennj[01:49:34] <rennj> hmm solaris 8 was pinnacle[01:49:45] <rennj> 9 could have been if they released x86 version[01:49:58] <rennj> because i ran solaris[01:50:42] <Reinhilde> rennj: run a modified illumos with smf ripped out and replaced by a sysvinit and a cde desktop then[01:50:44] <Reinhilde> i dare you[01:50:55] <rennj> that all gone[01:51:10] <rennj> libm.so i would need first probably[01:51:38] <Reinhilde> last i checked you didn't have to pay an arm and a penis for the cde source code[01:52:38] <rennj> i got 7 in-memory based .iso's that covered six laptops over 13 years...ill stick to poor mans vmware esxi...no vcenter needed.[01:52:52] <ESol5> im totally going to try using dilos's apt/dpkg or pkgsrc...unless someone has tried and failed?[01:53:06] <Reinhilde> ESol5: load up a dilos iso and give it a shot[01:53:13] <ESol5> like ill just use a chroot or something[01:53:36] <ESol5> dilos seems great...maybe reaching gui isnt so hard, ill check[01:54:04] <ESol5> it booted fine, and i dont need a rosetta stone[01:54:07] <Reinhilde> rennj: if I manage to rip out smf and reinstate like a BSD init, and have CDE running on that, should I send you the ISO that results[01:54:14] <Reinhilde> ESol5: you might need a mild rosetta stone for dilos[01:54:24] <ESol5> ty rein[01:54:38] <Reinhilde> rennj: or do you want something approximating JDS[01:55:04] <rennj> you know i have solaris 2.5.1 8 10 11.3 and OI now[01:55:13] <rennj> i also have the thumper vm[01:55:16] <Reinhilde> rennj: which is your favorite[01:55:26] <rennj> i told you 8 was pinnacle[01:55:32] <rennj> 9 on sparc[01:55:34] <Reinhilde> 5.2.5.1, 5.8, 5.10, 5.11.3, 5.il?[01:55:44] <rennj> sunos 5.8[01:55:47] <rennj> solaris 8[01:55:51] <Reinhilde> insanity[01:56:06] <Reinhilde> wait it'd be 5.5.1 under the current numbering scheme rite[01:56:20] <Reinhilde> rennj: you seem almost like a troll[01:56:25] <rennj> i ran that on $400K dollar sun e6800[01:56:34] <ESol5> Reinhilde: jds = java desktop system? if so, lemme read[01:56:37] <rennj> along with tons of other cheaper gear[01:56:45] <Reinhilde> ESol5: no, leave that alone[01:56:54] <rennj> hp-ux is damn fine os[01:56:55] <Reinhilde> i'm just paying the troll ransom[01:56:55] <ESol5> ok fine[01:57:24] <ESol5> thanks for untrolling me[01:57:45] <Reinhilde> rennj: well what exactly is wrong with sunos past 8?[01:57:52] <rennj> https://pasteboard.co/HfGYqG7.png[01:58:02] <Reinhilde> do you have dementia and lack the ability to comprehend smf?[01:58:23] <Reinhilde> rennj: how old are you?[01:58:31] <ESol5> theres something going on Reinhilde, dont think its dementia though[01:58:58] <rennj> i dont like solaris 10..because introducing all that at once is bond to cause issues[01:59:11] <rennj> smf,dtrace,zone,crossbox,zfs[01:59:12] <ESol5> it takes a certain psych to frankenbuild using slackware[01:59:20] <rennj> boot from zfs was wait[01:59:38] <ESol5> maybe he likes challenges[01:59:55] <Reinhilde> DYK: boot from zfs works better on FreeBSD than it does on the illumos I've tried[02:00:15] <ESol5> ah[02:00:25] <rennj> no wait for it to be like nfs...bsd,solaris,osX,linux all get on the same sheet of music[02:00:32] *** panorain <panorain!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[02:00:48] <rennj> ZoL why fbsd switched over[02:01:17] <Reinhilde> who raised Gene Ray from the dead?[02:01:57] *** EisNerd <EisNerd!~manschwet@mail.cs-software-gmbh.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[02:04:07] <rennj> i been using fvwm since like 1995, why would i care about motif based CDE[02:04:15] <ESol5> arent you nice Reinhilde...[02:04:38] <Reinhilde> i'm not[02:04:47] <rennj> CDE was unix wars being over,[02:04:51] <Reinhilde> i just don't like pissing off people who haven't wronged me[02:07:30] <rennj> dpkg apt-get on solaris based distro wont mean much...it whats been compiled in the repo[02:08:52] <Reinhilde> rennj: i hope you get well soon[02:08:59] <rennj> run netbsd pkgsrc for whats missing[02:09:12] <rennj> the only troll is you Reinhilde[02:09:33] <rennj> keep trolling wacko[02:10:53] <ESol5> whats your use case for OI/Illumos reinhide? are you a dev of anything in particular, btw?[02:12:49] <Reinhilde> i have none (I use omnios on one machine as an experiment), and I develop an ircd that had a bug in it that I did not discover until I put it on illumos[02:17:07] <ESol5> ah[02:17:48] *** EisNerd <EisNerd!~manschwet@mail.cs-software-gmbh.de> has joined #openindiana[02:24:08] <ESol5> why does sudo top not show me all running ps's? I can only see my opened apps, not lower level stuff like pid 1[02:29:27] <ESol5> well rennj if youre happy doing what most people would find crazy hard to do, then im happy youre happy[02:30:26] <ESol5> Reinhild was definitely trolling you...but a lot of people indeed would think you have very unusual tastes/needs and put in more effort than they would feel is "normal"[02:30:57] <ESol5> I dont think that was very nice of him, but anyway...[02:45:18] * Reinhilde is not a he[02:45:50] <ESol5> sorry[02:47:02] <ESol5> either you're trolling me, or a rare non-he...i think i come across more M2F's than actual females...unless you identify as an animal or something else[02:47:17] <Reinhilde> ...[02:47:24] <Reinhilde> go back to texas, ESol5[02:47:38] <Reinhilde> transmisanthropy is not welcome here[02:47:39] <ESol5> im talking tech circles...[02:47:46] <Reinhilde> (last I checked)[02:48:33] <ESol5> im pretty sure im just being objective based on everything ive seen/come across, not bashing or anything...i shouldve used them is all[02:49:51] <Reinhilde> or you could not refer to anyone at all by any name or pronoun, given this attitude: <ESol5> [....]i think i come across more M2F's than actual females[....][02:49:55] <ESol5> them instead of him/he[02:50:07] <Reinhilde> like why the fuck do you care about splitting those hairs[02:50:32] <ESol5> because I would be happy if there were more females in my industry :)[02:51:55] <ESol5> and I care for the same reason that gay people discriminate the other gender (or sex or wtv) when looking for a partner[03:00:28] <ESol5> I found ramdisk.c and ramdisk.h files through searchcode.com - still looking to see how to make it larger, and ill prob email the author if I can find him mentioned somewhere in an AUTHOR file or at the top of these files[03:17:47] <ESol5> reinhide...i made i mistake...sorry[03:17:56] <ESol5> a*[04:53:49] *** ESol5 <ESol5!~a@unaffiliated/asol5> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[07:15:39] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@134.19.189.92> has quit IRC (Quit: amrfrsh)[07:21:32] *** panorain <panorain!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has joined #openindiana[07:27:46] *** popgreeny <popgreeny!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has joined #openindiana[08:18:45] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[09:02:34] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[09:16:02] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@134.19.189.92> has joined #openindiana[09:36:56] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@134.19.189.92> has quit IRC (Quit: amrfrsh)[10:53:45] *** bavrogar_ <bavrogar_!~swerth@92.64.244.91> has joined #openindiana[10:54:57] *** bavrogar <bavrogar!~swerth@92.64.244.91> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[10:59:54] *** bavrogar_ is now known as bavrogar[11:50:15] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@131.234.44.43> has joined #openindiana[11:57:55] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@131.234.44.43> has quit IRC (Quit: amrfrsh)[12:52:57] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[13:04:29] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@185.212.171.68> has joined #openindiana[13:21:14] *** arnoldoree <arnoldoree!~arnoldore@ranoldoree.plus.com> has joined #openindiana[13:21:43] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[13:22:36] *** panorain <panorain!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[13:23:23] *** popgreeny <popgreeny!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[13:26:25] *** panorain <panorain!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has joined #openindiana[13:26:31] *** popgreen <popgreen!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has joined #openindiana[15:06:50] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:32:40] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[15:34:11] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #openindiana[15:48:39] *** hadfl_ <hadfl_!~hadfl@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has joined #openindiana[15:48:50] *** hadfl <hadfl!~hadfl@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[16:45:52] *** eki <eki!~eki@dsl-hkibng41-567327-143.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[16:47:44] *** eki <eki!~eki@dsl-hkibng41-567327-143.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #openindiana[16:58:58] *** brass <brass!~brass@51.15.113.79> has joined #openindiana[18:08:06] *** _0x5eb_ <_0x5eb_!~seb@seb-hpws2.w1.tele.crt1.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Goodbye!)[18:08:26] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has joined #openindiana[18:10:41] *** _0x5eb_ <_0x5eb_!~seb@seb-hpws2.elen.ucl.ac.be> has joined #openindiana[18:40:50] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:00:52] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has joined #openindiana[19:07:17] *** dgtlcmo <dgtlcmo!~dgtlcmo@c-24-61-203-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #openindiana[19:24:06] *** zsj <zsj!~zsj@BC0607BE.catv.pool.telekom.hu> has joined #openindiana[19:48:00] <zsj> hi. I installed OpenIndiana 2019.04 to its own disk. it boots if I select the disk as the one to boot from, but I'd like to add it to my regular linux grub2 menu and chainload it, and I'm having trouble figuring it out. the first partition has EFI System as type, but grub claims it's an unknown filesystem, and I can't tell what it is myself[19:56:10] <rennj> perhaps might help https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Triple+booting+Windows,+Linux+and+OpenIndiana+installed+on+the+same+disk[20:19:37] *** hadfl_ <hadfl_!~hadfl@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: nn o/)[20:19:58] *** hadfl <hadfl!~hadfl@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has joined #openindiana[20:26:51] <toasterson> zsj (IRC): the disk still has an mbr so chainload should just work[20:38:04] <zsj> apparently efi grub doesn't chainload to mbr: https://superuser.com/questions/1194548/can-i-chainload-mbr-from-grub-on-secondary-gpt-drive-and-can-i-nuke-msr-on-seco[20:38:22] <zsj> but I got it to work like this instead:[20:38:27] <zsj> menuentry "OpenIndiana" { insmod zfs insmod part_gpt search -s -l rpool chainloader /ROOT/openindiana/ at /boot/loader64 dot efi[20:38:30] <zsj> }[20:38:46] <zsj> with appropriate linebreaks I guess[20:54:07] <zsj> rennj: I looked at that page, but I wanted to keep the bootloader I'm already using as primary, if possible[21:20:29] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[21:21:19] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has joined #openindiana[22:34:23] <panorain> oh[22:36:33] <zsj> oh?[22:37:36] <Reinhilde> why not move loader64.efi to a fat partition[22:37:51] <Reinhilde> or wherever the grub efi is stored[22:40:45] <zsj> I assume this points to the right location even if boot environments change/get rolled back, and I'd need to keep it in sync manually. assuming it works off a different disk it needs to load off of, I don't think it has enough context when moved off to my main disk's efi partition[22:41:28] <zsj> I can try to experiment, but today I'm just happy it works as is[22:47:37] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-04.gwi.net> has joined #openindiana[22:49:20] <zsj> corrections to above: I think I'd need to keep loader64.efi in sync manually, assuming that moving it works. my intuition is that loader64.efi won't work if moved to a different disk without context, and also that /ROOT/openindiana/ at /boot/loader64 dot efi always points to the active boot environment[22:50:26] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[22:52:03] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-04.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[22:52:47] <zsj> but I don't actually know, and I might try copying it over tomorrow and see what happens[23:21:40] *** Adura <Adura!~Adura@toroon213mw-lp140-01-184-145-67-228.dsl.bell.ca> has joined #openindiana[23:22:08] *** Adura <Adura!~Adura@toroon213mw-lp140-01-184-145-67-228.dsl.bell.ca> has left #openindiana[23:30:25] *** popgreen <popgreen!~panorain@airstream-farmers-pppoe-10-ws-216.direct.airstreamcomm.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:41:32] <toasterson> zsj (IRC): 2019.10 keeps efi in sync[23:41:48] <toasterson> so a simple update should do[23:42:17] <zsj> can't[23:42:26] <zsj> https://www.illumos.org/issues/11953[23:46:12] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:46:39] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com> has joined #openindiana[23:46:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o alanc[23:48:56] <toasterson> zsj (IRC): we are looking for testers for Zen2 atm willing to help?[23:49:17] <toasterson> Or is that not you that posted the bug?[23:49:19] <zsj> I only have Zen+[23:49:27] <zsj> I'm #7[23:50:19] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-67-253-141-249.rochester.res.rr.com> has joined #openindiana[23:50:45] <zsj> but so are all the others commenting, so[23:51:04] <zsj> Zen2 is the 3xxx line[23:51:17] <zsj> Zen1 is the 1xxx line. Zen[23:51:21] <zsj> *Zen[23:51:24] <zsj> hmm[23:51:31] <zsj> Zen+ is the 2xxx line[23:51:38] <toasterson> yeah looks like Zen+ is also in the same boat as Zen2[23:51:43] <zsj> and I keep hitting enter on numpad instead of +[23:53:45] <toasterson> we probably have an effort for Zen+ going aswell our Zen effort is freshly from this Year sothey need some patience yet