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[01:44:51] <irker101> spec-files-extra [6496]  ianj0 SFEbacula: Bump to 9.0.4
[01:47:27] <irker101> spec-files-extra [6497]  ianj0 SFEmtx.spec: new spec to replace obsoleted vendor package
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[02:07:25] <irker101> spec-files-extra [6498]  ianj0 Fix bad commit
[02:08:26] <irker101> spec-files-extra [6499]  ianj0 SFEmtx.spec: Add just this spec this time
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[18:36:50] <ambient> Hi, I have been reading up on Openindiana, what are some of the goals of the desktop version of OI?
[18:37:29] <ambient> There seem to be a lot of benefits to running the OS as a server, but it is less clear to me what the benefits are as a desktop.
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[18:47:49] <tsoome> ambient: usually its really about helping to gain knowledge so you can get most from the server setup
[18:49:35] <rennj> Eating your own dog food, also called dogfooding, is a slang term used to reference a scenario in which a company uses its own product to test and promote the product.
[18:49:37] <rennj> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfooding
[19:03:23] <alarcher> ambient: historically for me, developing and running scientific computing algorithms with a RAIDZ in the workstations. Migrated away from ubuntu silently let a faulty disk controller corrupt a week worth of datasets in 2012
[19:08:28] <ambient> tsoome, Do you mean using the desktop to learn more about the server side or finding ways for the server side to benefit the desktop side?
[19:08:42] <tsoome> both really
[19:09:12] <ambient> alarcher, are there similiarities between RAID and RAIDZ?
[19:09:28] <ambient> alarcher, You mean two discs mirroring one another?
[19:09:51] <tsoome> technologies are moving from up to down and down to up
[19:11:05] <ambient> If this is about file systems, could this server setup not just be adopted by one of the more mature distributions?
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[19:13:14] <tsoome> define mature distribution;)
[19:14:02] <tsoome> OI, coming from opensolaris <- Solaris <- SunOS … has *very* long history
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[19:18:07] <ambient>  tsoome I am not talking about mature as an old, I am speaking of mature as in level of development
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[19:18:53] <ambient> tsoome, In economics, there are mature industries that may not be as old as say, the railway industry
[19:19:35] <tsoome> in such case, does mature mean there is no development or there is much development?;)
[19:20:06] <ambient> Like in the case of OpenIndiana
[19:23:54] <ambient> tsoome, I guess mature means old in your context
[19:24:07] <ambient> Use openindiana, it's just old.
[19:24:12] <ambient> :-)
[19:24:23] <tsoome> well, normally you do not want too old software;)
[19:24:52] <ambient> tsoome, People still use Windows XP
[19:25:06] <ambient> That can be one version of 'mature'
[19:25:07] <tsoome> fortunately I do not know any of those;)
[19:25:37] <ambient> I was figuring out mature as in there are a lot of developers, a lot of tested packages, drivers for hardware and such
[19:26:28] <tsoome> outdated software for outdated hardware;)
[19:28:38] <ambient> So, is there something inherently better in running a program, say in Openindiana vs a Linux distribution?
[19:29:10] <ambient> For instance, I read, more than once, that programs tends to run better on the BSD's than on Linux
[19:29:37] <ambient> But the BSD's do not have near the number of developers that the Linux's have
[19:30:06] <ambient> Of course, number of users do not denote superiority of one over the other
[19:30:59] <tsoome> you can take millon monkeys and typewriters and still drop dead while waiting for new shakespeare to appear;)
[19:31:42] <ambient> Are we describing openindiana?
[19:31:49] <tsoome> despite the popular belief, IMO most people should never get near to compiler.
[19:32:42] <ambient> So programs run okay on OI?
[19:32:54] <ambient> Better, same, worse?
[19:33:50] <ambient> If OI realizes it's potential, do we have a Linux killer here?
[19:33:51] <tsoome> that really depends on program.
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[19:34:25] <tsoome> and we really do not need linux (or any other) killer there — there is enough space for all the systems
[19:34:34] <ambient> I have seen programs crash frequently on some OS' and less frequently on others
[19:34:41] <tsoome> yea
[19:35:02] <tsoome> I have story about that  true story, I was part of it myself-
[19:35:40] <tsoome> some company was porting their app (based on xml etc and all opensource of course) from linux to solaris
[19:35:55] <tsoome> it sis build fine but crashed on start
[19:36:03] <tsoome> s/sis/did/
[19:36:27] <tsoome> so they were very unhappy - “bbut it does run just fine on linux”
[19:37:13] <tsoome> so, it did turn out, the app had global fixed len array, and the code did write past array end, corrupting the memory.
[19:37:52] <tsoome> was very trivial to see, but they never found the issue on linux, because “it was running fine”
[19:38:17] <ambient> I think Windows is like that too, it has the capacity to ignore errors and keep going
[19:38:33] <tsoome> of course in that case it really was about the memory layout etc
[19:39:00] <ambient> All programs are buggy though, they are made by humans, not Spock
[19:39:15] <tsoome> but, thats essentially one sample why you need different systems, hardware and software
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[19:40:26] <ambient> I just happen to have an extra ssd and was going to pop OI for my laptop, just swap the drives and have a look see
[19:40:48] <tsoome> another fun case was bug with 64bit integers. 32 and 64 bit x86 system was fine, 32bit sparc was fine, but 64bit sparc did reveal it.
[19:40:57] <ambient> I do mostly multimedia type stuff but the laptop is getting too old and crappy for any actual multimedia use
[19:41:18] <ambient> tsoome, how is OI on AMD systems?
[19:41:39] <tsoome> cant tell from my experience — i do not have any amd
[19:41:50] <ambient> tsoome, I notice stuff written on Intel systems, little on AMD
[19:42:04] <ambient> I do not use any Intel
[19:42:10] <ambient> systems
[19:42:11] <tsoome> amd is getting some more hw out, so it may change some
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[19:43:36] <ambient> I remember when Toshiba released a line of laptops with opensolaris pre-installed
[19:43:41] <ambient> That was cool
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[19:44:16] <ambient> But they were Intel laptops
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[20:31:38] <phobos> ambient: OI should run fine on amd stuff with the exception of the gpus.
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[20:33:35] <megaTherion> Hi
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[21:18:14] <ambient> phobos, AMD has come a long way with the gpu's, but they have a long way to go still
[21:28:27] <phobos> ambient: I'm only pointing out that, to the best of my knowledge, there is only vesa available for amd gpus.
[21:28:54] <phobos> in OI.
[21:30:13] <phobos> Again, to the best of my knowledge, they still don't really support anything but windows... unless you count that 1/4 assed mess they call the linux driver.
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[22:05:46] <ambient> phobos, You are right about quarter assed mess
[22:19:31] <phobos> I will give amd credit by saying at least they provided documentation to mesa and all that, but nothing has really come of it. :|
[22:31:15] <ambient> phobos, Do you use OI for desktop or serve?
[22:31:18] <ambient> server
[22:43:41] <phobos> Used to use it for desktop, but it's not really compatible with my current hardware
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   October 19, 2017  
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