September 17, 2013 
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September 17, 2013 [00:07:55] *** jaimef has quit IRC[00:11:13] *** Onno has joined #openindiana[00:15:32] *** jaimef has joined #openindiana[00:22:05] <tomww> hm. maybe a defective memory cell on the usb key. if that is the case, then failmode=continue would be an option, to copy out your config settings. but then I would more re-install the OS. "pkg fix" does repair the file contents, but there is no guaranty that it catches edge cases.[00:22:56] <jpeeters> damn[00:23:43] <jpeeters> tomww: zones config in global zone is difficult to recover ?[00:24:05] <tomww> if a zfs filesystem from a earlier BE is readble, that could be a copy source for your transfer to the new storage.[00:24:23] <tomww> zones config files are only a hand full in /etc/zones/*[00:24:57] <tomww> the rest of the zones-config is the zones root filesystem. so where is that stored?[00:26:11] <jpeeters> on a raidz1 pool[00:26:17] <jpeeters> on another drives[00:26:26] <jpeeters> luckily :D[00:26:48] <tomww> thats good. last question for tonight, your usb key, there has been no partition changes lately, right?[00:26:59] <jpeeters> I think I would create automatic snapshots of the rpool and send them to a backup zfs on storage drives[00:27:09] <jpeeters> right[00:27:28] <jpeeters> the last operation before the crash was an pkg update[00:28:47] *** Onno has quit IRC[00:29:07] <jpeeters> tomww: why this question ?[00:29:35] *** Onno has joined #openindiana[00:30:41] <jpeeters> i am leaving I am so tired[00:31:16] <jpeeters> see you soon ;)[00:31:32] <jpeeters> tomww: I'll let you know my progress in the next few days ;)[00:31:56] *** jpeeters has quit IRC[00:33:32] *** andy_js has quit IRC[00:35:21] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[00:36:58] <tomww> I was asking, because if the partiton layout changes that could lead to inaccessible areas because they are beyond the partition boundaries.[00:37:04] <tomww> good night to you[00:37:33] *** miine has quit IRC[00:46:23] *** jim80net has quit IRC[01:00:31] *** joltman has quit IRC[01:09:25] *** anonymuse has quit IRC[01:10:30] *** bookmage has quit IRC[01:11:10] *** ilovezfs has quit IRC[01:17:11] *** ilovezfs has joined #openindiana[01:42:46] *** joltman has joined #openindiana[01:44:54] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[01:49:10] *** blues_air has quit IRC[01:52:14] *** joltman has quit 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#openindiana[09:20:01] *** texarcana has quit IRC[09:20:28] *** InTheWings has joined #openindiana[09:21:49] *** nikolam has quit IRC[09:22:04] *** blues_air has quit IRC[09:22:06] *** texarcana has joined #openindiana[09:27:23] *** Zenos has joined #openindiana[09:30:22] *** hlangeveld has quit IRC[09:31:38] *** hlangeveld has joined #openindiana[09:51:49] *** tsoome has quit IRC[10:07:17] *** lblume has joined #openindiana[10:18:04] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[10:18:32] *** tsoome has joined #openindiana[10:22:13] *** blues_air has quit IRC[10:26:02] *** the_TORmentor has joined #openindiana[10:28:18] *** nikolam has joined #openindiana[10:35:02] *** atrius has quit IRC[10:35:05] *** andy_js has joined #openindiana[10:37:14] *** atrius has joined #openindiana[10:40:56] *** the_TORmentor is now known as The_Tormentor[10:51:29] <Agnar> how the heck do I get the X font-name for my current running gnome-terminal?[10:52:49] <tsoome> gnome-terminal properties i would guess[10:54:04] <Agnar> sure...monospace 8[10:54:05] <Agnar> ;)[10:54:52] <Agnar> according to gnome standards it should be bitstream vera mono...ok[10:55:13] <tsoome> :)[10:56:37] <Agnar> tsoome: when setting LC_* to en_US.UTF-8 my terminal fonts in CDE are fscked up. seems that the font-aliases are broken (maybe somewhere in my ~/.dt )[10:58:06] <tsoome> just messed up or issues with umlauted chars?[10:58:47] <Agnar> no, it complains that -dt-interface system-* cannot be found and uses an ugly default-font (fixed)[11:02:03] <Agnar> my work-around is Dtterm*userFont: -itc-courier-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1[11:02:04] <tsoome> does xlsfonts confirm it? its so much time since i have used CDE, i cant really remember too many details from there:([11:02:13] <Agnar> in my .Xdefaults[11:03:44] <Agnar> xlsfonts show the aliases, if i look up the fonts with fontadmin -> aliases it shows me errors too[11:03:56] <Agnar> (alias without existing target)[11:05:13] <Agnar> it gets stranger[11:05:32] <tsoome> at least some of those aliases are just "hardwired", but if its getting broken by locale switch, it seems like some dynamics is involved as well.[11:06:09] <tsoome> may it be you are missing some additional packages?[11:08:11] <Agnar> tsoome: I compared all CDE packages and font packages I found on the DVD (U11) with my system. everything is there for my locales[11:08:41] <tsoome> so its solaris 10?[11:08:44] <Agnar> yes[11:08:52] <Agnar> oh. wrong channel :)[11:09:03] <tsoome> na[11:09:18] <Agnar> I used to have #solaris on window #2 ;)[11:09:20] <tsoome> (i don't care;)[11:10:41] <Agnar> i'll show you a screenshot of a dtterm with the "correct" font (dtterm -fn "-dt-interface system-medium-r-normal-s sans utf-12-120-72-72-p-70-iso8859-1")[11:10:44] <Agnar> http://toy.jk-annemarie.de/~olbohlen/broken-unicode-cde.jpg[11:10:49] <Agnar> strange display errors[11:11:46] <lblume> FWIW, I had that in my .Xresources: Dtterm*userFont: -dt-interface user-medium-r-normal-s sans utf-12-120-72-72-m-70-*-*[11:14:24] *** W0rmDr1nk has joined #openindiana[11:14:45] *** scottyob has quit IRC[11:15:28] <Agnar> lblume: oh, that's working fine[11:16:05] <Agnar> but why?[11:16:58] <lblume> Hours of research, and probably some bugging of alanc at the time.[11:17:13] <Agnar> hehe.[11:17:32] <Agnar> using xfontsel with with also throws errors: X Error of failed request: BadImplementation (server does not implement operation)[11:17:35] <lblume> I don't use any bit of CDE any more. Do you want my full .Xresources? It's more than one line :-)[11:17:35] <Agnar> Major opcode of failed request: 45 (X_OpenFont)[11:17:38] <Agnar> Serial number of failed request: 1588[11:17:41] <Agnar> Current serial number in output stream: 1589[11:18:10] <Agnar> I think I'll stuck with my .Xdefaults and hope that this setup works for long time ;)[11:18:23] <Agnar> lblume: mine is horribly long[11:18:25] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[11:18:36] <Agnar> lblume: 10 years of customizing ,)[11:18:41] <lblume> Only 60 lines here - but carefully chosen ones :-)[11:19:30] <lblume> Then gnome-terminal became Good Enough, I needed actual Unicode support, and I understood that fontconfig was marginally easier to grasp, so there.[11:19:31] <Agnar> lblume: if you have a way to disable the annoying iiim selection under each cde-window...that's the only real thing that I miss ;)[11:19:48] <lblume> I'm pretty sure I do have something for that.[11:20:00] <tsoome> you can do very simple test - create new user and see if the errors are there. if not, its something in your .files[11:20:13] <Agnar> tsoome: right :)[11:20:21] *** scottyob has joined #openindiana[11:20:22] <Agnar> tsoome: will do that later :)[11:20:37] <lblume> *preeditType:[11:20:55] <lblume> I think that's the one[11:22:03] <Agnar> lblume: well, this blade1000 runs CDE damn fast - but JDS horrible slow ;)[11:22:29] <Agnar> lblume: just *preeditType: without value?[11:22:54] *** blues_air has quit IRC[11:23:53] <lblume> Yes, just put that in .Xresources[11:24:02] <lblume> I think :-)[11:24:26] <lblume> Getting rid of that little window took me a while too, I think I even opened a case.[11:24:36] <Agnar> I'll try :)[11:24:53] <lblume> Else, I'll give you the whole file, up to you to parse it :-)[11:25:08] <Agnar> lblume: -> olafbohlen at gmail dot com ;)[11:25:52] <tsoome> also the utf aliases are defined in /usr/openwin/lib/locale/*/X11/fonts/misc/ check if your font path is ok (or /etc/fonts/fonts.conf)[11:27:13] <lblume> /etc/fonts/fonts.conf has no effect on CDE.[11:28:12] <tsoome> guessed so tbh;)[11:29:13] <Agnar> lblume: works[11:29:37] <Agnar> tsoome: checked that, but CDE font config is very strange :)[11:30:17] <lblume> Agnar: Ok, so no need for the whole thing :-)[11:30:19] *** hlangeveld has quit IRC[11:30:28] <tsoome> just pointing out starting points. with CDE your session setup is done on login, including font paths; if you are just switching locale like env LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 dtterm, its possible you just dont have needed font paths set up[11:31:06] <lblume> CDE should use only the X font system but needs its own little DT fonts and has a poor Unicode support.[11:31:10] <tsoome> thats also easy to check by selecting locale before login[11:31:36] <lblume> Ah, yeah, dtlogin, wow, the time I wasted just to have proper fonts display there.[11:31:54] <tsoome> :D[11:31:55] <Agnar> lblume: thank you anyway - you helped a lot :)[11:32:25] <lblume> Well, if it makes you happy, then I guess it was not completely wasted after all. But still, go get yourself a real computer, ok?[11:32:35] <tsoome> lol[11:32:47] <Agnar> pff ;)[11:33:07] <Agnar> I use this box for 10 years now - 8-12 hours a day :)[11:33:18] <Agnar> and hopefully I'll use it another 5 years :)[11:33:25] <lblume> Or just buy one of those HDMI cables that plug into your cell phone, a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and use that.[11:33:51] <lblume> Yeah, 12h hours a day, including 10 hours waiting in front of it.[11:34:05] <Agnar> not really :)[11:34:37] <Agnar> since I usually use emacs or dtterm and in a few cases firefox - the box works fine for me :)[11:34:39] <lblume> Or trying to get it to accomplish that totally amazing feat: displaying a character properly! :-P[11:35:04] <lblume> Yeah, just the same as silex works just fine to make a fire, too![11:35:06] <tsoome> who told the life should be easy?[11:36:29] <Agnar> I basically have the choice here to use a) a HP compaq pc with wintendo 8 and hard limited (not even right-click enabled), Xming and putty - or my (private) B1000[11:37:04] <Agnar> ,s/or/or b)/[11:37:18] <lblume> Install Solaris in VBox, run it full screen.[11:38:28] <Agnar> lblume: you think I have the permissions to install anything when I'm not even permitted to open a windows-context-menu? :)[11:38:54] <Agnar> but hey, I'm lucky with my setup - call me weird if you like ,)[11:42:12] <lblume> It's a win8 work system? I thought it was home. Okay, that'd be even weirder than using S10 on a B1000 :-)[11:43:28] <Agnar> lblume: company standard "global desktop 3" :)[11:43:56] *** EisNerd_ is now known as EisNerd[11:45:43] <tsoome> "thank god" for those company/corporate standards.[11:45:57] <lblume> Ugh. Well, we're on XP here, it still does the job. And we're going to W7 (though also Office 2010, and that will be painful :-/ )[11:45:59] <Agnar> *nod*[11:47:08] <Agnar> lblume: with the introduction of outlook 2010 we can no longer delete mails with keeping the delete key pressed. after two or three mails all the time a popup appears "a client operation failed" :)[11:47:41] <Agnar> also happens if you hit delete to fast for a few times (so, wait 2 seconds between deleting each mail)[11:47:49] *** kdavyd has quit IRC[11:48:44] <lblume> Outlook 2003 is so slow and buggy already, can it get worse?[11:48:52] <tsoome> im sure it can[11:49:02] <lblume> (but honestly, it's not Microsoft I blame - I know where the incompetence is)[11:49:40] <Agnar> lucky enough I still have IMAP access :)[11:50:51] <lblume> What do you use? I've never found a decent alternative for a business environment. The Outlook calendar is just great.[11:51:24] <tsoome> i use osx mail and calendar:P[11:51:26] *** kdavyd has joined #openindiana[11:51:27] *** marcel_ is now known as MarcelT[11:52:06] <Agnar> lblume: I use emacs a lot and use gnus for mail and org-mode for calendar, todos, journal, etc[11:52:32] <Agnar> lblume: and org-mode synchronizes with my android phone calendar[11:52:37] <tsoome> but yes, the calendar part is maybe best part of the microsoft environment[11:53:19] <lblume> tsoome: As sucky goes, MacOS mail is the only one that has corrupted my inboxes with improperly formatted messages in the past.[11:53:45] <tsoome> well, perhaps im lucky;)[11:54:11] <lblume> I was the recipient. So it's not you suffering, but the people you send emails too :-)[11:54:30] <tsoome> i havent seen complaints either;)[11:55:05] <lblume> Agnar: Okay, emacs is all powerful![11:55:35] <tsoome> anyhow, if mail reader will crash on improperly formatted email, its reader fault just as much as sender fault[11:56:07] <tsoome> if you fail to check the incoming data, you should not write any code.[11:56:15] <Agnar> lblume: it's a love-it-or-hate-it-thingie[11:56:36] <tsoome> Agnar you forgot to add M-x[11:56:40] <tsoome> :D[11:57:34] <tsoome> and now you know where gnu tools got --those-very-nice-descriptive-options[11:57:46] <Agnar> lblume: I use gnus now for also 10 years (started using it same time I bought the b1k) and really like its features (killfile, scorefiles, archiving, etc) and got used to org-mode two years ago when somebody tried to convince me to use onenote[11:57:47] *** irker971 has joined #openindiana[11:57:47] <irker971> spec-files-extra [5426] tom68 SFEmpc.spec: fix IPS package name /media/ (duplicate)[11:57:52] <Agnar> tsoome: ;)[11:58:39] <Agnar> tsoome: Note love-it-or-hate-it-thingie is also bound to C-M-S-A-\[11:58:42] <Agnar> :P[11:58:49] <tsoome> :D[12:00:55] <lblume> tsoome: It wouldn't crash, but the boundaries between emails would sometimes lost.[12:01:25] <lblume> And yeah, Thunderbird is not only buggy, but also not actively developed anymore, which sucks :-/[12:02:06] <tsoome> boundaries between emails? thats the issue with email store, not formatting.[12:02:39] <lblume> It was Apple Mail causing it.[12:02:57] <tsoome> that may be, but its still issue with store.[12:03:31] <lblume> Yes, surely, but even Outlook manages to send emails that don't break boundaries.[12:03:35] <tsoome> if email server cant distinguish messages, its server problem.[12:03:38] *** alcir has quit IRC[12:04:56] *** alcir has joined #openindiana[12:05:16] <tsoome> also, if your mail program will crash on certain utf-8 char sequence, its problem not for sender, but for reader.[12:05:55] <tsoome> (pointing on recent osx utf-8 related issue)[12:13:55] <lblume> Yeah, and of course, when a thief enters your house, it's only your fault for not locking correctly :-P[12:14:56] <tsoome> yes and no[12:18:03] <tsoome> i dont know about you, we had to learn to check incoming data in very first programming lab in university. sure, the outgoing data should be ok as well, but "broken data" cant be excuse for email server.[12:18:11] <lblume> Just don't understate Apple's responsibility. Yes, receivers are responsible - and yet, they just can't test *every* way senders can fuck things up (and since standards do have greay areas, they can be perfectly implemented and yet fail). Since it was not a deliberately malevolent, the responsbility to do their best to send properly formatted stuff.[12:18:22] <tsoome> reject the broken mail, thats all you need to do.[12:18:44] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[12:19:11] *** Seemone has joined #openindiana[12:19:36] <lblume> Good one, that. Reality is, a director calling you to order you to do whatever crap is needed to receive even the most crappily formatted emails, because he is important, and you're not.[12:19:36] *** cpn has joined #openindiana[12:20:13] <tsoome> meh?[12:20:59] <lblume> Just saying that rejecting emails is not "just rejecting email" :-)[12:21:30] <tsoome> it is. you are not supposed to receive broken mails. period.[12:21:52] <tsoome> just as you are not supposed to receive emails with virus or trojans etc[12:21:58] <lblume> I would have loved to have you around during some meetings :-D[12:22:07] <lblume> But anyhow, it's drifting, and now is the time for lunch.[12:22:51] <tsoome> the point is, there is no excuse for bad code. its just that simple.[12:22:55] *** blues_air has quit IRC[12:23:50] <cpn> hi, i'm trying to set up smb shaers to my pool using the builtin cifs server etc, but it seems like although i can limit what the connected users through smb can do (i want them to read only in this case) i can't seem to limit access to the zfs itself from suers in the server, as in anyone can just cd /tank/data and rm -rf * as if i chmod /tank it will fuck the smb access, any way around this? I'm[12:23:52] <cpn> guessing yes but no matter what i try i either compromise on one or the other[12:25:00] <tsoome> remove access to su then.[12:25:14] <cpn> issue is that just regular users can access it[12:25:40] <tsoome> then its issue of setting proper permissions[12:26:50] <tsoome> the cifs service is checking ACL's, you need to set zfs dataset acl related properties and use /bin/chmod (and /bin/ls for check) to set proper ACL's[12:27:30] <cpn> wel llet's say i chmod 700 /tank/ , then i can't access the smb shares :/, (just so the regular users couldn't cd to it)[12:27:42] <tsoome> the zfs properties affect how unix permissions are translated to ACL[12:28:05] <cpn> ah, yeah that's the thing then :) need to get working on that then :), i've just bee tryign to chmod stuff and that's why it's causing issues i guess[12:28:50] <tsoome> you can use /bin/chmod to set unix permissions and ACL, just make sure you are using /bin/chmod and not /usr/gnu/bin one (which is broken)[12:29:31] <cpn> ohh let me try it :)[12:29:56] <tsoome> ls -v and ls -V will list the ACL's[12:31:25] <tsoome> also with ACL's you can set inheritance for new files/directories, so the proper permissions are set for new files[12:31:36] <cpn> cheers, yeap time to read into the acl's since just /bin/chmod 700 /tank won't cut it i'm assuming :), thanks at least got somewhere to look into now[12:31:41] <cpn> gotcha :), nice[12:31:58] *** The_Tormentor has quit IRC[12:32:18] <cpn> well i use napp-it and it does have a frontend for acl, but in the folder it seems i must set everyone@ modify at least to be able to access the shares so that's why i was trying to change it manually[12:35:04] <tsoome> i havent uset nappit, so i cant tell how and what exactly you can or can't do with it.[12:37:01] *** xenol has joined #openindiana[12:38:01] <cpn> yeah i'll just read on it and try to fiddle with it :) pretty much my goal is to just give everyioen read and execute and the owner only full access both on the share and terminal, i will get it :P, it's not even important atm but it just doesn't feel right atm that's why i'm trying to do it more than it being critical, but hate having loose ends :)[12:42:45] *** gvm has joined #openindiana[12:44:12] <cpn> i got it to everyone@:list_directory/read_data/read_xattr/execute/read_attributes /read_acl:file_inherit/dir_inherit:allow , and yeap i can open the shares with the user and in the terminal and can't delete etc, but can't seem to then play back my videos etc, am i missing any permission for that?[13:00:44] <tomww> win 36[13:04:24] <tsoome> you can start with adding full_set then remove unneeded ones one by one, so you can see what change will start to break things[13:09:18] <cpn> thanks :), well need to figure what's up indeed, think i'll reboot into windows soon and try some more, i tried to play on my mac and does fine, on my linux box nope, although it does with nfs, so may just say fuck it and stick to nfs haha, will keep at it, at least making some progress so appreciate it[13:10:16] <tsoome> check local access first, then cifs, then nfs (or vice versa depending where most of the clients are)[13:10:38] <tsoome> also nfsv3 versus nfsv4[13:10:52] <cpn> gotcha :) cheers[13:11:18] <tsoome> this way you have changes under control and you get exactly what change will affect what[13:12:42] <cpn> true :), yeap most clients are xbmc media players used to access photos etc, that's where i was getting the issues initially so will see if i get some logs form there seeing what it was saying it couldn't do[13:14:59] <tsoome> also check aclmode/aclinherit zfs properties[13:18:58] *** newbie has joined #openindiana[13:19:04] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[13:19:22] *** newbie is now known as Guest63020[13:22:05] *** Zenos has quit IRC[13:23:30] *** blues_air has quit IRC[13:24:48] <Seemone> so I have this pool with 2 SSD acting as ZIL and cache (different slices, mirrored zil and of course "striped" cache). I already set apart 25% of the disk to ensure smoother latency but this morning a doubt struck me[13:25:23] <Seemone> l2arc tend to be quite stable, so as it grows the are effectively used for writing the ZIL reduces, resulting in a premature failure of the SSD[13:26:11] <Seemone> I formarly did math thinking "ZIL writes will be spread across the whole SSD" but hat's not true, if a portion of the SSD is rarely written but it's occupied by data[13:26:17] <Seemone> formerly*[13:26:59] <Seemone> do anyone think I'm right or I'm worrying for nothing?[13:27:21] <tomww> is your doubt about waering the SDD faster then necessary, or,[13:27:34] <Seemone> yes[13:27:50] <tomww> is it about what happens if the SSD indeed fails, but the system continues to be online and work without the SSD, stable, but slower?[13:28:11] <Seemone> the first one primarily[13:28:30] <Seemone> I'm writing 400-500GB of data a day[13:28:47] <tomww> so only a crash right in the moment when the SSD is breaking, that would result in a little bit larger rollback top an earlier state which is on stable magnet disk.[13:28:52] <Seemone> so I should be happy about for 7-8 years (480GB disk)[13:29:16] <Seemone> what I'm worrying is that I made a wrong estimation on the cost of having SSDs[13:29:50] <Seemone> but if my L2ARC grows to 75% of the disk then I'll have only 2 years before it fails[13:29:51] <tomww> I can't tell how a consumer SSD would behave. at least it should fall into the mode where writes get slowed down while re-arraning memory cells by the firmware...[13:30:06] <Seemone> no I'm speaking of when the cells definitevely die[13:30:24] <Seemone> I'm writing a full round every day more or less[13:30:38] <Seemone> and this ssd cells should be good for around 3k writes[13:31:00] <tomww> hm. one woul dneed an code expert who can tell how the write alrogirthm works. If really *every* byte is touching the SSD when writing.[13:31:15] <Seemone> yes, and amplified[13:31:25] <Seemone> we're speking of ZIL/L2ARC[13:31:27] <tomww> and then will be read again (from memory) and written to magnet disk, then remove the transaction from the SSD.[13:31:32] <Seemone> what's written to them itt gets written[13:32:04] <tsoome> in theory neither l2 nor slog failure should not bite you with crash, slog failure will hit sync mode write perform ance. l2 part depends on how much pressure is on ram[13:32:09] <tomww> I would ask for an expert giving a presentation on that specific questions. should be of interest to so may users.[13:32:21] <Seemone> tsoome: I know. I'm not worried about losing data.[13:32:39] <Seemone> I'm worried about cost :)[13:32:53] <tsoome> but, its another topic how the HBA-ssd link will behave and if you will get some wierd IO effects there[13:33:24] *** szaydel has joined #openindiana[13:33:40] *** andy_js has quit IRC[13:33:43] <tsoome> ssd life expectance is anybodys guess, i think;)[13:34:17] <Seemone> I'm already waiting some time before putting the second one in, so I have a window between the deaths[13:36:02] *** Vutral has quit IRC[13:37:32] *** W0rmDr1nk has quit IRC[13:37:59] *** W0rmDr1nk has joined #openindiana[13:42:59] *** Vutral has joined #openindiana[13:46:25] *** andy_js has joined #openindiana[13:50:05] *** nikolam has quit IRC[13:57:16] *** The_Tormentor has joined #openindiana[13:57:34] <The_Tormentor> what c compiler does OI use?[13:59:14] *** Guest63020 is now known as Zenos[14:03:00] *** nikolam has joined #openindiana[14:05:33] *** cpn has quit IRC[14:15:30] *** xenol has quit IRC[14:15:38] *** xenol has joined #openindiana[14:19:24] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[14:24:16] *** blues_air has quit IRC[14:26:34] *** jim80net has quit IRC[14:29:20] *** jim80net has joined #openindiana[14:35:22] *** CVLTCMK0 has quit IRC[14:37:37] <herzen> The_Tormentor: it uses gcc-3 to build the illumos kernel. users can use gcc-46 to build other things. also, Sun Studio is an option (but not for the kernel), alhough deprecated.[14:41:03] <JT-EC> OI uses studio and gcc3 to build /dev.[14:42:21] <JT-EC> Most of hipster content uses gcc-47 and may use illumos-gcc (4.4.4) to build illumos-gate, need to check on that.[14:44:57] *** classix has joined #openindiana[14:45:35] <herzen> JT-EC: where is gcc-47? the only C compiler I can find in http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev/ is gcc-3.[14:46:19] <JT-EC> hipster is in /hipster[14:49:02] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[14:50:03] *** InTheWings has joined #openindiana[14:54:02] *** cpn has joined #openindiana[14:55:44] <herzen> that's confusing, because I did a fresh install of oi 151a8, which I thought is hipster, and the publisher it adds to pkg is /dev, not /hipster.[14:56:16] <Agnar> herzen: there's a a8 dev and a a8 hipster[14:56:35] <Agnar> yes...confusing[14:56:40] <JT-EC> a8 != hipster[14:56:43] <herzen> ah, OK.[14:56:58] <Agnar> JT-EC: but iirc hipster has a8 in uname? or not?[14:57:28] <herzen> there are a lot of (I guess misinformed) posts that come up by googling that call a8 hispter.[14:57:44] *** irker971 has quit IRC[14:57:47] <lblume> OpenIndiana keeping the most sacred Solaris tradition of confusing names! :-D[14:57:50] <JT-EC> Don't think so as hipster uses illumos_<git-id)[14:58:03] <JT-EC> s!)|>![14:58:18] <JT-EC> *sigh* typing failure, I give up.[14:58:35] <herzen> can I upgrade fro a8 dev to a8 hipster by replacing the publisher /dev with /hipster and then doing "pkg update"?[14:59:17] <patdk-wk_> there is no a8 hipster[14:59:21] <patdk-wk_> there is 151a8[14:59:27] <patdk-wk_> and there is the hipster addon repo[15:02:06] <herzen> so if it's an addon repo, that means that I add it as a new publisher, not replacing /dev with it?[15:02:38] <herzen> I would like to try out this gcc-47...[15:03:48] <patdk-wk_> well, follow the hipster instructions[15:04:03] <patdk-wk_> it might need to be a replacement, and might need you to adjust the sticky settings[15:04:10] <patdk-wk_> I am not sure[15:04:36] <patdk-wk_> due to it's replacement of core components[15:06:48] <herzen> patdk-wk: where are the hipster instructions? sorry, I looked on information on the OI Web site, but couldn't find anything about it.[15:07:11] <patdk-wk_> that I wouldn't know, as I don't use hipster[15:07:49] <herzen> also googling "hipster site:openindiana.org" only produces refences to emails and publishers on the first page, not to any Web pages.[15:08:39] <herzen> OK, thanks, I guess I'll ask around some more before I add /hipster.[15:08:43] *** hlangeveld has joined #openindiana[15:09:10] *** held has quit IRC[15:12:07] *** W0rmDr1nk has quit IRC[15:14:01] <herzen> no, the first thing that comes up on that google search is this: http://openindiana.org/pipermail/oi-dev/2013-May/002109.html[15:14:28] <herzen> I guess that that is the authoratative explanation of how to use hipster for the time being.[15:15:37] <herzen> you do replace /dev with /hispter as the origin of the publisher openindiana.org.[15:16:49] *** nikolam has quit IRC[15:18:31] *** jim80net has quit IRC[15:18:45] *** W0rmDr1nk has joined #openindiana[15:20:58] *** anonymuse has joined #openindiana[15:29:40] *** held has joined #openindiana[15:32:51] *** alcir has quit IRC[15:33:29] *** tinuva has quit IRC[15:35:51] <herzen> ah, and I've found the git repository for hipster: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland .(the link to github in the above email doesn't work because a final period is included in the URL.)[15:36:16] *** W0rmDr1nk has quit IRC[15:37:03] *** jim80net has joined #openindiana[15:42:57] *** W0rmDr1nk has joined #openindiana[15:42:58] <xenol> herzen: just change publisher to http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster and run pkg update[15:43:09] <xenol> but expect shit to break[15:44:33] <herzen> xenol: thanks for the warning. maybe what I'll do for the time being is only install gcc-47, without doing pkg update.[15:45:53] <xenol> just clone oi-userland to a8 a build it[15:45:55] <xenol> and[15:49:28] <herzen> I'd rather not build it. I don't build the gcc I'm currently using, oi-sfe's gcc-46.[15:50:08] <herzen> but I HAVE signed up at github recently. :)[15:50:12] *** DrLou has joined #openindiana[15:50:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrLou[15:50:49] *** tinuva has joined #openindiana[15:58:07] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[16:02:19] *** lumb has quit IRC[16:05:27] *** InTheWings has joined #openindiana[16:07:21] *** nikolam has joined #openindiana[16:08:28] *** cpn has quit IRC[16:11:51] *** lumb has joined #openindiana[16:13:58] *** joltman has joined #openindiana[16:16:02] <xenol> herzen: do you plan to contribute to /hipster? :)[16:16:12] *** tsoome has quit IRC[16:17:58] *** Worsoe has quit IRC[16:18:28] *** W0rmDr1nk has quit IRC[16:20:03] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[16:20:30] <herzen> xenol: possibly. although in the past what I've contributed to is oi-sfe, which appears to have become moribund lately.[16:21:03] <herzen> it would take me some time to get the hang of oi-build.[16:21:22] <tomww> it is mature, no need for rapid updates :-)[16:21:28] <xenol> herzen: nice. it isn't that hard as it looks[16:21:41] <JT-EC> oi-sfe is still going, I'm sure Milan would welcome any updates.[16:22:04] <tomww> well, I would more say, Milan did a lot other important work. And what other SFE contributors dliver is automaticly of good use for hte next compile run for oi-sfe.[16:22:37] <JT-EC> Yep, that.[16:24:10] *** blues_air has quit IRC[16:25:27] *** W0rmDr1nk has joined #openindiana[16:48:10] *** newbie1 has joined #openindiana[16:52:04] *** Zenos has quit IRC[16:53:16] *** newbie1 is now known as Zenos[16:55:28] *** nikolam has quit IRC[17:02:28] *** Lee- has quit IRC[17:03:26] *** newbie1 has joined #openindiana[17:07:26] *** Zenos has quit IRC[17:11:55] *** newbie1 is now known as Zenos[17:12:54] *** tsoome has joined #openindiana[17:15:04] *** hlangeveld has quit IRC[17:19:28] *** Lee- has joined #openindiana[17:25:58] *** MarcelT has quit IRC[17:28:29] *** MarcelT has joined #openindiana[17:33:26] *** cpn has joined #openindiana[17:42:27] *** cpn has quit IRC[17:47:02] *** lumb has quit IRC[17:48:02] *** kohju has quit IRC[17:48:27] *** kohju has joined #openindiana[17:54:37] *** lumb has joined #openindiana[17:56:04] *** rfm has joined #openindiana[18:00:37] *** |AbsyntH| has quit IRC[18:00:54] *** nikolam has joined #openindiana[18:15:33] <Seemone> ncsize is exactly the max number of entries in the dnlc cache?[18:20:44] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[18:24:53] *** jeremyt_ is now known as jeremyt[18:25:18] *** blues_air has quit IRC[18:27:28] *** altf2o has quit IRC[18:37:51] <MarcelT> Seemone: no. dnlc_max_nentries is the max number of the dnlc entries[18:39:00] *** cpn has joined #openindiana[18:42:07] <Seemone> is ten millions too much?[18:42:27] <Seemone> at 100bytes avg each is 1gb[18:43:32] <Seemone> and what about how many entries are used?[18:59:59] <MarcelT> Seemone: it depends[19:00:46] <MarcelT> Seemone: dnlc_nentries is the current number of entries used[19:01:28] <Seemone> mh[19:01:31] <Seemone> it gets pruned violently[19:01:45] <Seemone> from 950k to 630k in a few seconds[19:02:02] <MarcelT> it might happen[19:02:22] <MarcelT> for various reasons[19:02:58] <Seemone> here's the big picture. I have a number of development VMs which do mostly nothing, but I want to reduce how much they write on the local disks because those are mounted on vmware thru NFS[19:03:07] <Seemone> and the ZIL is on SSD[19:03:23] <Seemone> so I'm using nfsv3rwsnoop to see which one does the most writes[19:03:57] <Seemone> I found out that the script is often unable to resolve the file name because it's not in the dnlc[19:04:19] <Seemone> doing a find /path/of/vmdks solves the problem… for a while[19:04:36] <Seemone> (I have other (nfs) I/O going on and it's about many small files[19:05:05] <Seemone> I suppose I'll put a find in crontab...[19:05:15] <Seemone> to keep those few hundreds of files in the cache[19:05:53] <MarcelT> you are trying to solve something using not proper tools[19:06:03] <Seemone> I am open to sugestions[19:06:03] <MarcelT> dnlc is not relaible enough for such resolve[19:06:11] <Seemone> it's what dtrace uses[19:06:20] <Seemone> I suppose I can't change it[19:06:44] <patdk-wk_> doesn't it give inode number?[19:06:48] <MarcelT> ah, you are talking about mapping from vnode to name?[19:06:57] <Seemone> yes MarcelT[19:07:01] <MarcelT> okay[19:07:12] <Seemone> patdk-wk_: the dtrace script converts it[19:07:19] <MarcelT> I thought it is somehow related to nfsv3 and i was confused a bit... :-)[19:07:39] <Seemone> that's only the context :)[19:08:05] <MarcelT> in any case, dnlc is not reliable so you shouldn't be surprised that you will not be able to convert vnode to name[19:08:08] <Seemone> args[1]->noi_curpath);[19:08:29] <Seemone> do I have other tools?[19:08:36] <Seemone> that I can use in dtrace[19:08:41] <MarcelT> no simple tool I think[19:09:10] <Seemone> anyway I found how to reduce writes on local disks in my situation[19:09:25] <Seemone> there are some application logs we now put on an iSCSI volume[19:09:31] <patdk-wk_> disable atime? :)[19:09:32] <Seemone> but historically we put on local disks[19:09:36] <Seemone> (done ages ago :))[19:09:49] <Seemone> some older installations still use the local logs[19:10:13] <Seemone> it's a tedious work to move them, but I'm doing a deep find to find them all[19:10:14] <patdk-wk_> ya, my vm's rarely ever touch the disk[19:10:23] <patdk-wk_> all logs are remote[19:10:30] <Seemone> well, mine as well, but having tens of them adds up[19:10:44] <patdk-wk_> tens of them?[19:10:48] <Seemone> application logs tend to be massive, especially during development[19:10:52] <Seemone> tens of VMs[19:11:06] <patdk-wk_> ya, but I ship logs off the vm's to a centeral log server[19:11:09] <Seemone> 98 active as of now[19:11:25] <Seemone> not doable with these apps[19:11:52] <Seemone> but the iSCSI will suffice… it's the reason I gave each VM 10GB of scratch iSCSI[19:12:06] <Seemone> but of course lazy devs didn't update their installations[19:12:30] <Seemone> it wasn't an issue until now, but now every written byte has a cost[19:14:02] <Seemone> I'm also debating whether to move the swapfile to iscsi[19:14:20] <Seemone> not sure linux plays well with that[19:17:12] *** The_Tormentor has quit IRC[19:17:15] *** The_Torm1ntor has joined #openindiana[19:17:35] *** The_Torm1ntor is now known as The_Tormentor[19:18:26] <patdk-wk_> Seemone, zram swap :)[19:19:52] <Seemone> TIL of zRAM[19:20:32] <Seemone> we have plenty of cpu to spare...[19:20:39] <Seemone> but not much I/O[19:20:43] <Seemone> and ram is always an issue[19:21:07] <Seemone> but I suppose it will never be backported to centos5[19:21:15] <Seemone> and all our dev vm are centos5[19:21:29] <patdk-wk_> do what?[19:23:11] <Seemone> er=[19:23:13] <Seemone> ?[19:23:23] <patdk-wk_> v5 should be dead[19:23:45] <patdk-wk_> except for mission critical stuff that doesn't care about new software[19:24:01] <Seemone> commercial software likes long maintenance windows[19:24:12] <Seemone> centosh5/RHEL5 is alive and well[19:24:19] <patdk-wk_> well, if it's testing for commercial software, ok[19:24:28] <Seemone> actually, our customers started deploying RHEL6 only this yeart[19:24:47] <Seemone> and some still run some rhel4 boxes[19:24:48] <patdk-wk_> I dropped rhel5 and upgraded to rhel6 over a year ago[19:24:58] <Seemone> and we disposed of the last RHEL3 in spring[19:25:00] <patdk-wk_> I haven't touch rhel4 since 2007[19:25:09] <Seemone> ah well _I_ did as well[19:25:33] <Seemone> but when you have tens of machines, it's different[19:25:38] <patdk-wk_> maybe 2008[19:25:40] <Seemone> plus, if it's running you don't touch it[19:25:51] <patdk-wk_> depends[19:26:09] <patdk-wk_> I upgraded all my win2003 machines to win2008r2 2 years ago[19:26:12] <patdk-wk_> 300 machines[19:26:52] <patdk-wk_> for linux, I upgrade about every 3 years[19:26:58] <Seemone> you'd agree windows is a little different[19:27:10] <Seemone> RHEL5 has a full support cycle of 10 years[19:27:20] <patdk-wk_> rhel has too long a update cycle, and yum keeps screwing me, so migrated away from it[19:27:36] <Seemone> released in 2007[19:27:53] <patdk-wk_> it's not the support cycle that is the issue[19:27:55] <Seemone> it's not too long. it's perfectly normal in enterprise[19:28:04] <patdk-wk_> it's the software is too old to run the stuff people want to run[19:28:13] <Seemone> as a desktop? of course[19:28:21] <Seemone> as a server running a DBMS? nope[19:28:23] <patdk-wk_> desktop? no[19:28:32] <Seemone> (of course it's too old)[19:28:47] <patdk-wk_> even dbms[19:28:50] <patdk-wk_> it depends on the use case[19:28:51] <Seemone> there are SO many Solaris 8 SPARCs happily churning...[19:29:07] <patdk-wk_> yes, as long as the software that uses them, doesn't need anything newer, fine[19:29:18] <patdk-wk_> but dunno if you can still find *wordpress* that can use mysql 3.x[19:29:48] <patdk-wk_> and my users care about wordpress :([19:29:57] *** held has quit IRC[19:30:02] <patdk-wk_> my users are going be pissed with php 5.5[19:30:02] <Seemone> most commercial software tend to be self contained[19:30:37] <Seemone> ours run millions of mailboxes per installation and only lately supports RHEL6[19:30:58] <patdk-wk_> going have split servers again[19:31:11] <Seemone> and only because one customer is doing a migration to a freshly installed architecture[19:46:36] *** Onno has quit IRC[19:51:02] *** Onno has joined #openindiana[19:54:39] <Seemone> bye people[19:54:51] *** Seemone has quit IRC[20:02:45] *** ianj has joined #openindiana[20:29:25] *** held has joined #openindiana[20:41:12] *** Lee- has quit IRC[20:44:45] *** jaimef_ has quit IRC[20:54:13] *** jaimef has joined #openindiana[20:58:59] *** alex2 has quit IRC[21:00:43] *** alex2 has joined #openindiana[21:21:42] *** blues_air has joined #openindiana[21:26:15] *** blues_air has quit IRC[21:32:02] *** pjama has quit IRC[21:34:05] *** pjama has joined #openindiana[21:50:32] *** echobinary has quit IRC[22:04:20] *** alex2 has quit IRC[22:06:24] *** jaimef has quit IRC[22:08:55] *** W0rmDr1nk has quit IRC[22:10:13] *** jaimef has joined #openindiana[22:28:53] *** echobinary has joined #openindiana[22:45:28] *** Anton_ has quit IRC[22:50:40] *** Anton_ has joined #openindiana[23:36:50] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[23:43:01] *** movement has quit IRC[23:45:05] *** InTheWings has joined #openindiana[23:50:15] *** InTheWings has quit IRC