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[01:04:21] <slefevre> I'm looking for some advise on troubleshooting a lockup/freeze issue on oi_151a running on an older dell server. The server has two marvell88sx cards supporting 8 drives. The system will lockup under heavy IO load (e.g. deleting a snapshot). I've done a fair amount searching on the net looking for a starting point to troubleshoot this but I haven't had much luck. Anyone have any suggestions?
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[01:09:18] <bodie> someone with working vpnc? Installed one from pkg repository, replaced vpnc-script for newer one and it connect and create proper routes so I can ping various gateways, but can't access DNS servers from /etc/resolv.conf
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[10:49:36] <ROKO___> hello
[10:50:20] <ROKO___> i created zone but when verify it i see my nic not verifyed
[10:50:21] <ROKO___> ROKO__@openindiana:~$ sudo zoneadm -z myzone verify
[10:50:21] <ROKO___> WARNING: skipping network interface 'yukonx0' which may not be present/plumbed in the global zone.
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[10:59:19] <tsoome> so, is it present/plumbed in global zone?
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[10:59:26] <tomww> sounds like a vnic not really created with dladm
[10:59:26] <ROKO___> how can get work
[10:59:26] <ROKO___> ?
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[10:59:33] <tomww> the quetion is, what is you hardware ethernet interface name?
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[10:59:38] <tomww> e.g. e1000g0 or nge0 or ...
[11:00:08] <tomww> and second, do you want a virtual networkcard created or just use the existing hardware interface name
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[11:00:30] <ROKO___> dladm ?
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[11:00:44] <ROKO___> http://os-solaris.ru/lx-brand-dlya-openindiana-151a/
[11:00:50] <ROKO___> i follow this page
[11:02:12] <tsoome> you cant use random names for nic. this guide is not complete, because he does not refer where he is getting the name yukonx0
[11:02:24] <ROKO___> well
[11:02:28] <ROKO___> what i need to do ?
[11:03:24] <ROKO___> global i have only e1000g0
[11:03:53] <tsoome> dladm create-vnic in global zone if you wanna use this name for your nic or dladm show-phys and use the name you really have in your system
[11:04:13] <tsoome> ah, so you can use e1000g0 instead.
[11:04:33] <ROKO___> how ??
[11:06:29] <tsoome> zonecfg -z myzone ; select net physical=yukonx0; set physical=e1000g0 ; end
[11:07:20] <tsoome> i think thats the syntax, check from man zonecfg if needed (it can be my memory fails me):D
[11:07:38] <ROKO___> do i need run commit
[11:07:42] <ROKO___> after this ?
[11:07:47] <tsoome> yes
[11:08:26] <ROKO___> sudo zoneadm -z myzone verify
[11:08:26] <ROKO___> ROKO__@openindiana:~$
[11:08:30] <ROKO___> empty line ??
[11:08:46] <tsoome> so its not complaining any more
[11:10:34] <ROKO___> okay
[11:10:35] <ROKO___> will see
[11:17:03] <ROKO___> sudo zlogin myzone /root/skype/skype.sh
[11:17:03] <ROKO___> Password:
[11:17:03] <ROKO___> ROKO__@openindiana:~$
[11:17:06] <ROKO___> but wont start
[11:17:16] <ROKO___> another way for skype in openindiana
[11:17:16] <ROKO___> ?
[11:19:12] <keremet> ROKO___: can you access the zone console? sudo zlogin -C myzone
[11:20:28] <ROKO___> keremet, yes
[11:20:32] <ROKO___> i'm now inside
[11:20:53] <keremet> It seems to be problem with connection to X server
[11:21:29] <ROKO___> cat skype.sh
[11:21:29] <ROKO___> #!/bin/sh
[11:21:29] <ROKO___> /root/skype/skype_static-
[11:21:37] <ROKO___> i used this syntax from site
[11:21:47] <ROKO___> is it right
[11:21:47] <ROKO___> ?
[11:22:14] <keremet> export DISPLAY=":0.0"
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[11:25:17] <ROKO___> okay
[11:26:54] <ROKO___> now start but cannot sign in
[11:28:13] <ROKO___> http://dpaste.org/MwvYB/
[11:28:21] <ROKO___> this is output from "snoop"
[11:30:22] <keremet> what is your gateway IP? I think it is not
[11:32:35] <keremet> you must change line zonecfg:myzone:net> set defrouter=
[11:35:37] <haj> Is it just me that find removing EFI labels from disks I'd actually like to use in my root pool difficult?
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[11:41:23] <vados> ROKO___: you Росен ?
[11:41:23] <ROKO___> keremet, http://dpaste.org/NaJZV/
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[11:41:41] <keremet> ROKO___: netstat -rn
[11:42:14] <keremet> in global zone
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[11:57:36] <ROKO___> keremet,
[11:57:37] <ROKO___> http://dpaste.org/17U1T/
[11:57:41] <ROKO___> vados, yes i am
[11:59:04] <tsoome> haj: format -e then partition command
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[11:59:22] <sivanov_> trying out solaris as iscsi target and getting only ~30MB/s over two GE links with round-robin load balance over two path to a VMWare ESX 4.1
[11:59:32] <sivanov_> what can possible be a problem?
[11:59:56] <tsoome> zvol backend?
[12:00:45] <tsoome> create zvol with volblocksize=128k and try again
[12:02:06] <sivanov_> d'oh its damn serverraid: dd to the pool shows only 30mb/s too
[12:03:28] <sivanov_> how i install severaid manager? i found a distribution for solaris, but it only has RaidMan.ds file
[12:04:10] <sivanov_> the file begins with # PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm line
[12:04:16] <sivanov_> how i install it?
[12:04:24] <tsoome> pkgadd
[12:04:29] <keremet> ROKO___, zonecfg: add net; set address=; set defrouter=; set physical=e1000g0; end
[12:04:31] <sivanov_> thanks
[12:04:37] <matsim> sivanov_: IBM will likely only support solaris :-/
[12:04:57] <matsim> ServeRaid is the lineup of Adaptec and LSI controllers they rebadge in their servers
[12:05:14] <sivanov_> this is solaris 11 btw
[12:05:29] <sivanov_> need encryption
[12:05:38] <matsim> aha, ok nonetheless - what type of box / hba is it?
[12:05:58] <sivanov_> serveraid 8i aka aacraid
[12:06:12] <matsim> aha, ok, then it's a adaptec based one
[12:06:17] <sivanov_> yep
[12:06:47] <matsim> 8i wasn't a bummer anyway, we all had to switch to 8k to get adequate perf (but not with a Solaris OS)
[12:07:03] <sivanov_> but why so slow, the lun is six disks @RAID5
[12:07:25] <matsim> is it right the 8i has no backup battery?
[12:07:28] <sivanov_> i'll try to install the manager and ma'
[12:07:46] <sivanov_> make simple volumes
[12:07:56] <sivanov_> on remaining space
[12:08:05] <matsim> raid5 wasn't their strength either - the base model had very little cache
[12:08:15] <spanglywires> hmmm
[12:08:28] <spanglywires> I can second it… I've a Dell CERC with similar issues
[12:08:36] <spanglywires> just using simple volumes on it
[12:08:52] <spanglywires> I don't get good throughput with it
[12:09:17] <sivanov_> yes, its crap hba, giving volumes to opensolaris gave much better performance
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[12:10:02] <sivanov_> but this time i need whole 6 disks for backups, and cannot spare a disk to boot the OS
[12:10:17] <ROKO___> keremet, okay
[12:13:52] <matsim> sivanov_: any idea what firmware this raid adapter runs with?
[12:14:15] <sivanov_> current firmware
[12:14:31] <ROKO___> keremet, now have inet on the zone
[12:14:42] <ROKO___> but now again cannot start skype.sh
[12:14:53] <ROKO___> zlogin myzone /root/skype/skype.sh
[12:14:53] <ROKO___> ROKO__@openindiana:~#
[12:14:56] <ROKO___> empty line
[12:14:58] <matsim> latest is 5.2.0-17003 from dec. last year
[12:16:22] <keremet> ROKO___, Have you run 3 commands from "2. Provide access from lx brand zone to X server running in the global zone."?
[12:18:38] <ROKO___> keremet, what do you mean i'm not sure if understand you
[12:19:24] <ROKO___> myzone login: su(pam_unix)[104092]: session opened for user root by (uid=0)
[12:19:24] <ROKO___> su(pam_unix)[104092]: session closed for user root
[12:19:36] <ROKO___> when run zlogin myzone /root/skype/skype.sh
[12:21:36] <keremet> after "zoneadm -z myzone boot", before zlogin you must run mkdir /export/myzone_root/root/tmp/.X11-unix/; mount -F lofs /tmp/.X11-unix/ /export/myzone_root/root/tmp/.X11-unix/; xhost +
[12:22:05] <ROKO___> keremet, any time ?
[12:22:09] <keremet> yes
[12:22:47] <ROKO___> okay need to make executable script with this stroke
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[12:31:36] <vados> create a zone for Skype ? скайп дерьмо :)
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[12:47:53] <sivanov_> hmm, serveraid manager tools dont see controller configuration :(
[12:48:27] <sivanov_> they are quite old: dated 2007-09-20
[12:48:55] <sivanov_> i guess, driver interface have changed 100 times
[13:02:36] <matsim> sivanov_: IBM has stopped supporting Solaris on new boxes - only older ones have S10 drivers, no s11 AFAIK
[13:03:55] <tsoome> nice, another case with unusable system resulted from dead disk in lsi mirror….
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[13:13:52] <haj> what to check if an aggrated link over 4*GBit only performace as 1GBit?
[13:14:19] <mui> parallelism of performance test (:
[13:14:38] <peitolm> I'm trying to update a snv_134 install to oi_... but I'm getting "pkg set-publisher: The origin URIs for 'openindiana.org' do not appear to point to a valid pkg server." when i try and run "pfexec pkg set-publisher -P -O http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev openindiana.org"
[13:15:07] <haj> mui: hmm .. I was under the impression that I should be able to pull 4Gbit? :/
[13:15:31] <peitolm> haj: depends on many things, multiple streams for example
[13:15:34] <Patrickdk> haj, your impression is wrong
[13:15:37] <mui> well yea it depends on network configuration
[13:15:53] <mui> it -can- be possible to loadbalance per packet basis
[13:15:55] <tsoome> aggregation does not change your link physical capabilities
[13:16:02] <mui> but there are not many switches that do that
[13:16:34] <Patrickdk> a single tcp session will use a single link
[13:16:34] <Patrickdk> mui, that is evil, for tcp
[13:16:34] <Patrickdk> why they don't do that
[13:16:51] <tsoome> even if you do per package load balance, that package still goes 1Gb/s
[13:16:55] <sivanov_> what can possible give ~12MB/s speed per member of raidz, while dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rdsk/... bs=1M gives 60MB/sec per member disk
[13:16:55] <tsoome> and not 4.
[13:17:16] <sivanov_> also i can push 300MB/s through the controller
[13:17:32] <peitolm> sivanov_: CPU XOR
[13:17:32] <tsoome> sivanov_: you need to think a bit more;)
[13:17:49] <tsoome> peitolm: that not the cause;)
[13:18:02] <sivanov_> yep
[13:18:18] <tsoome> sivanov_: what happens if you do dd with bs=1M to single disk?
[13:18:19] <mui> tsoome: yeah but you can send four packets at 1Gbps (:
[13:18:23] <mui> thus having 4Gbps throughput
[13:18:55] <Patrickdk> only to 4 different computers
[13:18:56] <sivanov_> tsoome, it gives nice 60MB speed
[13:18:57] <Patrickdk> not the same one
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[13:19:26] <tsoome> yes, but why?
[13:19:47] <tsoome> because it can do nice huge data block based IO
[13:19:52] <sivanov_> becase no seeks
[13:19:58] <tsoome> streaming 1M blocks
[13:20:23] <tsoome> now when you do the sama against the pool, your 1M writes are split between disks in pool
[13:20:25] <sivanov_> i suspect that zfs does not use write caches
[13:20:30] <tsoome> no
[13:20:34] <tsoome> thats not it
[13:21:23] <peitolm> hmm, my 'man pkg' doesn't seem to list -O as an option
[13:21:23] <tsoome> and since your 1M is spread over disk in raidz, every disk does not 1M write, but 1/N bytes write, where N is number of disks in your pool
[13:21:28] <haj> mui/Patrickdk/peitolm: thanks for enlightening me.. :)
[13:22:30] <mui> np(:
[13:22:36] <tsoome> look on iostat -xn 1 and from kw/s column and w/s column you can get average size of single write on individual disk
[13:23:27] <sivanov_> well, in simplier controllers i dont have this problem
[13:23:54] <haj> iperf -P8 still only gives me 1GBit.. hmmm ...
[13:23:55] <tsoome> oh wait a sec, you have raid card behind it?
[13:24:51] <sivanov_> the serverraid 8k, now i made simple 1 disk volumes
[13:24:52] <tsoome> its an battery backed card with write back? and dd test was done against raw disk?
[13:25:46] <sivanov_> i turned off all the cache because last time i ran osol on this server turning off caches for volumes gave me better performance
[13:26:18] <tsoome> what you can do is this: create line in /kernel/drv/sd.conf
[13:26:26] <sivanov_> dd was against a volume made from part of phys disk
[13:26:39] <tsoome> and line is: sd-config-list="VID PID", "cache-nonvolatile:true";
[13:26:57] <tsoome> where VID PID you get from scsi inquiry
[13:27:05] <tsoome> format - inq
[13:27:29] <tsoome> that will tell sd driver to stop scsi cache flushes on those disks
[13:28:19] <peitolm> no-one here familiar with pkg?
[13:28:31] <tsoome> after that you can gave write back enabled in card (if you have battery)
[13:28:45] <sivanov_> tsoome, i'll try
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[13:29:15] <tsoome> for example with hds midrange FC arrays we have : ssd-config-list="HITACHI DF600F", "cache-nonvolatile:true";
[13:29:42] <tsoome> (you need to use sd, not ssd)
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[13:32:41] <tsoome> basically solaris sd (or ssd) driver is atempting to read information about cache from scsi inquiry info, if the array wont tell, its defaulting to volatile cache, and that means the cache flush instructions are sent to make sure your data is on platter. but not all devices will report the cache type....
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[13:33:56] <tsoome> and on single physical disk cache the flush is ok, because its not shared with other devices.
[13:35:34] <sivanov_> well,last time i ran opensolaris on this server, i just gave whole disks to volumes in the raid manager, but now i have to carve small raid10 lun from the disks for system and give remaining space to volumes
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[13:36:27] <tsoome> that does not change the cache flushes
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[13:38:19] <sivanov_> but last time it worked well
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[13:39:30] <tsoome> well, you can just create one huge volume now as well?
[13:40:43] <sivanov_> well, the array has 50GB lun
[13:40:52] <sivanov_> on sizx disks
[13:40:56] <tsoome> note that the card cache management may behave different if you have 1 volume versus several volumes
[13:40:56] <sivanov_> *six
[13:41:22] <sivanov_> it uses some space, remaining space i use to make a volume on each disk
[13:42:13] <sivanov_> so i end up having one boot lun and six luns for zfs
[13:42:34] <tsoome> anyhow, the nonvolatile setting should help both cases, with 1 volume or more than one, esp because you can use write back now
[13:44:02] <sivanov_> so i should run format - inq < /dev/rdsk/c3t1d0p0 whatever the disk is?
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[13:44:41] <tsoome> or format - seect disk, and enter inq
[13:44:56] <tsoome> that will tell you vendor and product strings
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[13:46:00] <tsoome> that sd-config-list is using vendor-product pair to identify devices on which to apply the property change
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[13:48:47] <sivanov_> what if prodict id has space in it?
[13:48:51] <sivanov_> product
[13:50:03] <tsoome> uhm, the whole length of the string was max 16 chars I believe, check the sd source
[13:50:25] <tsoome> unfortunately the sd manual is not really documenting those options
[13:51:28] <tsoome> ahm no, vid is 8, pid is 16
[13:51:47] <tsoome> so it can have all the spaces
[13:53:23] <tsoome> there is an similar example in evil tuning guide, except they are using an options array to set same thing (which is not really readable, "cache-nonvolatile:true" is clear at once as you look on it;)
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[14:14:00] <patdk-wk> haj, you are probably spliting your aggrate up via mac address, or something else
[14:14:24] <patdk-wk> if you want iperf to show >1gbit, then you need to select something like ip+port on both your switch and on your computers
[14:16:27] <tsoome> even that wont help on single stream test
[14:16:56] <peitolm> is it possible to install a fresh copy of openindiana along side an existing sol_134 install, preferably from within an existing sol_134 install?
[14:17:29] <tsoome> it is but not with standardinstall tools.
[14:18:08] <peitolm> does it involve pkg?
[14:18:20] <peitolm> (which I seem to have a version that doesn't understand -O)
[14:19:02] <tsoome> basically you need to create blank dataset and transfer the files into it.
[14:19:10] <lblume> peitolm: I've done it by simply installing on a clean disk, then zfs sending the newly installed OI to the S11 rpool.
[14:19:28] <tsoome> yep
[14:19:35] <peitolm> o.k., i hadn't thought of that
[14:19:36] <lblume> Maybe it could work by installing in a VM too?
[14:19:43] <peitolm> where abouts in the rpool?
[14:19:52] <peitolm> (ie, how do i boot it?)
[14:20:05] <tsoome> boot datasets are in rpool/ROOT branch.
[14:20:07] <peitolm> I've got a couple of zones on this box
[14:20:10] <lblume> Just alongside the existing S11 BE's, then adding the line in grub's config.
[14:20:11] * peitolm looks
[14:20:22] <lblume> But of course, the rpool needs to be at a compatible level.
[14:20:36] <peitolm> version 22
[14:21:18] <sivanov_> hmm, maybe other admin made wrong choise of boot lun capacity, it feels like partitions of the array are not aligned
[14:21:49] <peitolm> so something like |zfs recv rpool/ROOT/oi_151
[14:22:40] <peitolm> i'll give that a go tonight, I have ipmi && serial-over-lan on that box, so hopefully i'll be able to to _something_
[14:23:31] <sivanov_> tsoome, now i get average 60-70MB/s but in iostat -xnC the disks are 100% busy @10MB/s at times
[14:24:26] <tsoome> busy% only means they have something to do, more important is latency.
[14:24:48] <tsoome> wsvc_t and asvc_t
[14:26:13] <tsoome> also, 10MB/s at 10 w/s and 10MB/s at 1000 w/s are quite different things, bare bandwith is also quite meaningless without looking on IOPS
[14:26:28] <sivanov_> at slowdowns wsvct_ is 0.3 asvc_t is 770 to 1000
[14:27:19] <tsoome> huh, thats quite huge...
[14:27:52] <tsoome> indeed, if its bad alignment issue or something else….
[14:28:58] <patdk-wk> even alignment issues shouldn't be that large
[14:29:02] <patdk-wk> at most 30-40ms
[14:29:05] <patdk-wk> not 800
[14:30:00] <tsoome> how many vdevs in that zpool?
[14:30:05] <sivanov_> looks like i need to pull the disk and see the geometry
[14:30:07] <sivanov_> 6
[14:30:23] <tsoome> 6 vdevs?
[14:30:28] <sivanov_> err
[14:30:31] <sivanov_> 1 vdev
[14:30:49] <sivanov_> tried using 3way raid10
[14:31:00] <sivanov_> but that didnt help much too
[14:31:39] <tsoome> 3-way raid10?
[14:32:01] <sivanov_> pool of 3 mirror vdevs
[14:32:16] <patdk-wk> 3 mirrors? or 3way mirros of 2 vdevs?
[14:32:40] <sivanov_> 3 vdevs
[14:32:46] <patdk-wk> not that it matters much, if a drive is acting up
[14:32:49] <sivanov_> of 2 way mirroros
[14:33:12] <tsoome> well, what you have to understand is how the data blocks will be distributed.
[14:34:10] <sivanov_> i wonder where adaptec raid keeps its metadata on disks, at start or at end
[14:34:18] <tsoome> if your single vdev is carved from 6 disks in raid5, then your 1MB write will be sliced up to raid block size and single 1MB write will become 1MB/blocksize writes.
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[14:42:45] <peitolm> so a man pkg on a fresh install of oi_148 doesn't have any mention of -O for set-publisher
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[14:46:11] <tsoome> if i recall -O did add new origin, new option is -g
[14:47:18] <peitolm> ta
[14:48:30] <peitolm> i swear i tried that, and it didn't work, it took a while, but it just did
[14:50:24] <peitolm> now it says i have no updates
[14:50:32] <peitolm> ah, non-sticky didn't stay
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[14:54:12] <liberal> can anyone recommend a basics admin manual for solaris? ebook, pdf, html doesn't matter. just a good reference to get one familiar with the ways of solaris?
[14:54:51] <liberal> /?$/./
[14:55:01] <lblume> Oracle.com has plenty of documentation.
[14:55:24] <lblume> The ways of Solaris changed greatly between 10 and 11, so you'd need both, really.
[14:55:56] <liberal> ok. i will make use of that resource then. ty
[14:57:18] <lblume> And of course, it's also diverging from OI and others.
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[15:02:14] <peitolm> o.k. that didn't work
[15:04:19] <viridari> liberal: Oracle actually has a great CD ISO image for download, full of PDF's for managing S11. It doesn't 100% translate to OI (S11 is a litle different) but it's a good start. The PDF's render well on my iPad, FWIW.
[15:05:23] <viridari> liberal: I think the Illumos-sphere is so very new that unfortunately it's not always easy to find good thorough doc for this platform yet.
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[15:20:30] <peitolm> is http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev/ the right publisher to have? pkg image-update -nv says i have nothing to update, but pkg list shows everything at 134
[15:21:23] <peitolm> if i try to do "pkg install package/pkg" i get "pkg://openindiana.org/package/pkg at 0 dot 5.11,5.11-0.147:20110720T213831Z: This version is excluded by installed incorporation pkg://opensolaris.org/consolidation/ips/ips-incorporation at 0 dot 5.11,5.11-0.134:20100302T010530Z"
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[15:25:06] <peitolm> this reads like it's an FAQ
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[15:27:24] <vados> http://pkg.openindiana.org/prestable
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[15:32:28] <peitolm> "pkg://openindiana.org/package/pkg at 0 dot 5.11,5.11- This version is excluded by installed incorporation pkg://opensolaris.org/consolidation/ips/ips-incorporation at 0 dot 5.11,5.11-0.134:20100302T010530Z"
[15:33:33] <vados> http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/oi_151a_prestable0+Release+Notes
[15:34:16] <peitolm> which comment specifically
[15:34:55] <peitolm> i get that from doing pkg set-publisher -P -g http://pkg.openindiana.org/prestable/ openindiana.org && pkg set-publisher -G http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev/ openindiana.org && pkg refresh --full && pkg install -v pkg:/package/pkg
[15:36:47] <liberal> viridari: ty very much for the insight and direction. with that said, do you think it wise for a solaris noob to venture into illumos at this point? would I be better off looking at solaris 10 or 11?
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[15:38:08] <liberal> not that new scares me, but for a noob, undocumented does.
[15:38:48] <RoyK> hm... sometimes I wonder what would be the easiest way to crash a disk without it being immediately noticable by the vendor, connect it and ram it into something hard while spinning?
[15:42:44] <liberal> RoyK: call the vendor and ask.
[15:43:19] <liberal> ;p
[15:44:00] <RoyK> lol
[15:44:59] <raichoo> liberal: I use OI and the S11 documentation. Works for me :)
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[15:49:45] <liberal> raichoo: how long have you been using solaris?
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[15:54:57] <lblume> liberal: You'll get support, for some value of that, more easily if you go the Oracle way.
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[15:59:52] <viridari> liberal: I'm more of a Linux guy and I stumble along in OI grabbing doc from here & there. The Oracle doc is getting me by for now, but as the two platforms take divergent directions, the Oracle doc will be increasingly less relevent
[16:00:54] <lblume> There are already different commands for network configuration.
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[16:06:53] <liberal> thanks folks. as i won't be implementing this knowledge in production any time soon, I will throw a little caution to the wind and try my might on oi. :) I'm excited.
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[17:16:34] <matsim> G'day I got some basic instructions on packaging from saablover - and I fail at some stage
[17:17:08] <matsim> first how to I check 'pkg versions'
[17:17:48] <matsim> then I tried 'sudo pkg set-publisher -O http://pkg.openindiana.org/prestable - but this command seems invalid
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[19:48:35] <NCommander> hey all, I was curious if there was a list of closed blobs still in openindiana
[19:49:45] <matsim> NCommander not being an expert on this, I believe parts of IKE still are
[19:49:51] <matsim> And mpt?
[19:50:01] <matsim> I think some drivers at least still are
[19:50:25] <NCommander> matsim: I was looking at doing some work to replace the binary blobs in opensolaris before that project went up in smoke. Didn't learn OpenIndiana existed until about five minuts ago
[19:50:57] <alanc> nvidia graphics driver is
[19:51:05] <matsim> NCommander if you want to hack on the kernel / core userland, then illumos is what you're looking for
[19:51:21] <NCommander> alanc: well, the nvidia driver I expect to be closed :-)
[19:51:28] <matsim> OI is a distro that tries to keep up :)
[19:55:08] <Triskelios> NCommander: the illumos-gate bits are visible under usr/closed, there's entire consolidations which are built from existing binaries though
[19:55:15] <Triskelios> (well, would be visible if you downloaded the closed tarball)
[19:56:47] <NCommander> Triskelios: it would be nice if OI/illumos could be fully FOSS ;-)
[19:57:08] * NCommander has a love/hate relationship with Solaris in general though
[19:57:28] <NCommander> thanks for the info, I'll probably poke it with a stick at some point
[19:57:47] <Triskelios> getting there slowly
[19:58:18] <NCommander> my biggest issue is the userland has a distinct 80s feel to it (at least on a stock install on SPARC which was the last time I played with it)
[20:01:46] <viridari> NCommander: you're not alone
[20:01:53] <Triskelios> not really sure what you mean by that
[20:02:29] <NCommander> Triskelios: the shell environment is .... odd if your used to a more modern Solaris/BSD userland. Usually coretools+bash get dumped into my home folder as steps 1 and 2
[20:02:36] <NCommander> er
[20:02:40] <NCommander> Linux/BSD userland
[20:03:00] <viridari> NCommander: you can rearrange your path to have a somewhat more familiar environment
[20:03:10] <Triskelios> a lot of people are familiar with GNU systems and the default PATH was changed to accommodate that by having some GNU tools as defaults
[20:03:28] <NCommander> viridari: well, at the time, this was RIT's Solaris server, and didn't have GNU tools available
[20:03:36] <NCommander> so I built them with a cross-compiler, and dumped them in home
[20:03:42] <Triskelios> GNU is from the 80s, as well...
[20:04:01] <viridari> I think it's funny that you lumped Linux & BSD together, though; my background is in Linux, but I work in a FreeBSD shop and I find them to be quite different in subtle but maddening ways
[20:04:03] <NCommander> Triskelios: its been updated since then :-). Its a matter of taste, which I fully admit
[20:04:18] <NCommander> viridari: I don't mind different switchs and such (like ls -g for color on BSD)
[20:04:25] <NCommander> I get annoyed when features are missing
[20:05:09] <NCommander> The AIX box I used to have to deal with at work used to drive me nutty since there was no tab complete in the shell (it was running AIX 3(?))
[20:05:22] <viridari> I am sorely tempted to file a bug on every single userland tool in GNU and elsewhere, as a feature request, to enable a "--JSON" flag to specify JSON input or output is expected
[20:05:42] <NCommander> viridari: good luck finding the bug trackers :-)
[20:05:42] <Triskelios> yeah, I agree that there are utility features associated with or introduced by the GNU versions that are pretty important for usability. we have ls --color now
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[20:06:02] <Triskelios> and sed -i
[20:06:09] <Triskelios> grep -r is one still missing
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[20:06:14] <NCommander> Triskelios: oh neat. My solaris adminm experience is limited, just what I know as a user. I played with ZFS on a Nextena box once, and I fell in love
[20:06:24] <Tenzer> Triskelios: find -iname is also a good one
[20:07:01] <NCommander> Even basic Solaris 11 is nowhere as bad as stock AIX userland. I feel like I wanted to hang myself everytime I touch AIX (although smit is nice TBH)
[20:07:05] <viridari> NCommander: play with zones & zfs, yes... it's made entirely of awesome sauce with extra bacon
[20:07:22] <NCommander> viridari: pity that OpenSolaris really was lacking on laptops last time I looked
[20:07:27] <viridari> I hear that dtrace is in the same boat but I haven't gotten there yet
[20:07:47] <Triskelios> NCommander: most of my x86 systems are laptops
[20:07:47] <viridari> NCommander: OI 151 ran mostly very well on my laptop
[20:08:21] <NCommander> intel wireless drivers were MIA last time I checked
[20:08:56] <Triskelios> Tenzer: file a bug on illumos-gate, these make good project for newcomers
[20:09:06] <Triskelios> NCommander: most Intel wireless is supported, actually
[20:09:12] <viridari> NCommander: my laptop had intel wireless & it worked
[20:09:23] <Tenzer> Triskelios: Okay
[20:09:24] <NCommander> Triskelios: wooo, things have come aquite a way from last time I looked at OS
[20:09:32] <viridari> OI != OS
[20:09:40] <viridari> there is a common heritage
[20:09:50] <NCommander> viridari: OS was the last Solaris-based thing I ever looked at
[20:09:50] <Triskelios> and illumos != Solaris
[20:11:25] <alanc> Solaris has included bash for over a decade, so if it was missing from an install, blame the admins, not the OS
[20:11:46] <alanc> other gnu tools are admittedly more recent additions
[20:12:10] <NCommander> alanc: I thought pdksh was still the default
[20:12:22] <alanc> pdksh has never been included in Solaris
[20:12:35] <NCommander> I think my memory got funny
[20:12:49] <alanc> bash has been installed as /bin/bash since Solaris 8 in 2000
[20:13:14] <alanc> it became the default user shell in "Project Indiana", aka the OpenSolaris distro around 2008
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[20:13:44] <alanc> on Solaris 10 and older, /bin/sh is the classic bourne shell -- on OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana/Solaris11/etc. /bin/sh is ksh93
[20:14:01] <alanc> (i.e. real AT&T ksh, not the pdksh clone)
[20:14:31] <patdk-wk> I'm a clone?
[20:15:40] <Triskelios> pdksh was for those poor OSes which couln't afford the real thing
[20:16:11] <alanc> before AT&T/Lucent/BellLabs/corporate-history-is-messy open sourced the real thing
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[20:24:14] <hjf> so i want to replace my server's drive with an big USB stick. like 32GB... is that a good idea?
[20:24:25] <hjf> i have a SATA disk but it's mostly idle
[20:24:27] <Tenzer> Triskelios: Damn you, -iname is already added - in a patch you have approved: https://www.illumos.org/projects/illumos-gate/repository/revisions/13450 ;)
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[20:24:54] <hjf> I'm trying to figure out if the usb stick has wear leveling (do they have that? or is that just an SSD feature?)
[20:28:01] <Triskelios> Tenzer: lol, figures. I remembered -print0 and -min/maxdepth
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[20:29:11] <tsoome> hjf: you may wanna test the usb io speed first, many people have found it not that good...
[20:30:46] <hjf> tsoome: yeah it's slow like 10MB/s but it's just for boot and system. the rest is a 4-drive ZFS array.
[20:31:19] <tsoome> enabling the compression may help you if you really wanna go this way
[20:31:40] <tsoome> as it will reduce the amount of physical IO
[20:31:56] <hjf> what i'm afraid of is lots of writes to the same sector (like logfiles, or journalling, or ZIL or whatever)
[20:32:14] <hjf> can't afford an SSD :P
[20:32:52] <Tenzer> hjf: ZFS is a copy-on-write file system, meaning that it will write to a new block on the disk/pen when you make changes to a block
[20:33:30] <hjf> Tenzer: what about the ZIL? is it dynamically (randomly?) allocated?
[20:33:44] <Tenzer> I don't know about that
[20:33:56] <tsoome> zil is only used for sync mode writes
[20:34:11] <Tenzer> But are you sure that you will get faster response times with a USB pen that with your normal hard drives?
[20:34:13] <tsoome> normal IO on boot dataset is very rarely sync mode
[20:34:49] <hjf> Tenzer: i'm not worried about boot times. it's a server that stays on (what i want to do is reduce power and heat)
[20:35:25] <tsoome> also if you have enough space, using snapshots will reduce the overwriting same sectors even more
[20:35:39] <hjf> tsoome: i was going to ask exactly that
[20:36:06] <hjf> keep "rolling snapshots"
[20:36:08] <Tenzer> hjf: I am thinking more about whether you will gain anything from using it as a slog. If your USB stick doesn't respond faster to write requests and your hard drives, you don't gain anything except for wearing out your USB stick faster
[20:36:10] <tsoome> but tbh, i would still go some small (and cheap) ssd instead;)
[20:36:17] <tsoome> go with*
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[20:36:46] <Tenzer> Also, if you really want to use the USB stick as slog, you should probably make sure that writes to it are written to it right away, and aren't buffered. But I would presume ZFS handles this for you
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[20:37:38] <hjf> Tenzer: no, i want to boot directly from the stick.
[20:37:55] <hjf> tsoome: yeah but they're still quite expensive down here. a 32GB one is $113
[20:38:29] <hjf> and a 32GB USB stick is $50
[20:38:58] <tsoome> well, if you have an stick, try it out. but it also may happen your bill for all of those sticks will be higher;)
[20:39:46] <hjf> does the OI installer support installing to a usb stick anyway?
[20:39:46] <Tenzer> If the performance of a SSD is 20 times better than a USB stick, then paying around double the price for it is cheap :)
[20:39:55] <tsoome> you know this old saying, if you wanna buy cheap and good, you have to buy twice
[20:40:12] <Tenzer> hjf: I am pretty sure it does. I believe I have done it previously
[20:40:23] <tsoome> first the cheap, and then the good one;)
[20:40:26] <hjf> Tenzer: I'd rather use the SSD on my desktop comp =D
[20:40:28] <Tenzer> It was however a slow USB stick so I didn't really use it because it was so slow
[20:41:08] <Tenzer> hjf: I also have 2 SSD drives in my work station rather than my server, but I don't really need that fast IO on my server
[20:41:51] <hjf> Tenzer: exactly. i make my server drives spun down (since sometimes it's not accessed for days)
[20:42:14] <hjf> so i want to use a USB stick for boot, and keep the data on magnetic disks
[20:42:56] <hjf> and since my usage pattern is mostly sequential reads of large files, over a network, an SSD won't make any difference
[20:43:26] <Tenzer> Actually, it can. ZFS uses read ahead which may get cached on a SSD if you use it for read caching :)
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[20:43:56] <hjf> Tenzer: I'd rather add more RAM :P
[20:43:58] <Tenzer> I think it can at least, or perhaps read ahead is only cached in RAM?
[20:44:57] <tsoome> it does, but depending on how is your apps pressure on arc size.
[20:51:32] <hjf> starting install now...
[20:52:30] <tsoome> remember to set compression asap;)
[20:52:58] <tsoome> its really stupid the install app wont let it ...
[20:52:58] <hjf> can I open a second terminal and set that now?
[20:53:10] <tsoome> yep
[20:53:21] <hjf> how?
[20:53:41] <tsoome> zfs set compression=on rpool/ROOT/openindiana ?
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[20:53:52] <hjf> ctrl-alt-f2 or 2 won't give me a terminal
[20:54:19] <tsoome> ah, you have text mode?
[20:54:23] <hjf> yeah
[20:54:35] <tsoome> then you cant do, but you can do it later if you feel to
[20:54:49] <hjf> :P but then the installed system won't be compressed
[20:55:32] <tsoome> you can rewrite it
[20:55:38] <Tenzer> The alternative is to use the graphical installer, and get a graphical desktop system installed, which will probably cause more writes because of the larger amount of data, than what you will get with an uncompressed text-mode installation :P
[20:55:38] <hjf> 30%...damn it's slow
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[20:56:24] <hjf> Tenzer: speaking of which, the GUI is easy enough to turn off with svcadm. can it be uninstalled easily too? pkg uninstall something
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[20:57:05] <Tenzer> Not that I know of. You probably have to go through the list from "pkg list" and uninstall the ones you don't want
[20:57:08] <Tenzer> afaik
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[20:58:12] <hjf> 48%...
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[21:01:36] <tsoome> svcadm disable gdm ;)
[21:01:47] <Tenzer> tsoome: That doesn't remove the data
[21:01:48] <Tenzer> :p
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[21:03:46] <tsoome> well, if you dont wanna them, just use AI or text mode install
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[21:06:31] <tsoome> which reminds me i really need to start to practice some AI stuff…
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[21:28:24] <hunter1> Is/was anyone using the puppet builds at pkg.codenursery.com - it appears down, and wondering if anyone has a mirror of the puppet that was there?
[21:29:38] <hjf> hunter1: your nick made me laugh: http://bash.org/?244321
[21:30:02] <hunter1> Can't browse that - we're blocked at work.
[21:30:08] <hunter1> stupid filter
[21:30:52] <hjf> hunter1: lol, it was about a guy being trolled. his password was hunter2
[21:31:08] <hunter1> ah, not me. My password is 12345.
[21:31:18] <hunter1> [I work for syrian govt]
[21:31:23] <hjf> really? OMG!~THAT'S MINE TOO
[21:31:28] <hjf> we're BFFs
[21:31:39] <tsoome> ***** is my password as well:P
[21:31:44] <Tenzer> :)
[21:31:49] <tsoome> :D
[21:32:07] <hunter1> Sooooo - back to work. Anyone know of another build/pkg for puppet for openindiana?
[21:32:39] <timclassic> hunter1: For some reason your nick appears to me as ********
[21:32:46] <timclassic> It's weird
[21:32:56] <hunter1> not my intention.
[21:33:06] <hunter1> I'm loosing my love for adium on osx
[21:33:26] <timclassic> Oh, wait, you couldn't visit the site, sorry
[21:33:31] <timclassic> I was beating the above joke to death
[21:33:31] <Kurlon> Anyone got a suggestion for a replacement TFTPd on OI? The stock in.tftpd seems to lack logging and request remapping which is making using it for netbooting a royal PITA.
[21:33:35] <timclassic> My bad :)
[21:34:05] <hunter1> Kurlon: hpa writes one. I _assume_ it works/builds for *solaris.
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[21:34:23] <Tenzer> Kurlon: I usually use tftp-hpa, I don't know if it supports the things you need, but it works well for me
[21:34:36] <Tenzer> It does work on OpenSolaris
[21:34:40] <Tenzer> Eh, OpenIndiana
[21:34:44] <Kurlon> I'll give it a look
[21:34:46] <Kurlon> Danke!
[21:34:54] <Tenzer> Don't be alarmed that it's hosted on kernel.org ;)
[21:36:35] <hjf> YAY zfs root on USB is *SLOW*
[21:36:42] <hjf> 1.5MB/s over SMB
[21:37:15] <Triskelios> our USB storage driver is slow
[21:37:52] <Kurlon> That looks perfect.
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[21:38:28] <Kurlon> 2MB/s is the best I've been able to hit with USB flash on OI.
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[21:45:31] <hjf> Triskelios: well yeah but the really cheap usb stick doesn't help either
[21:45:45] <hjf> also: i'm inside VMWare on windows. layers and layers...
[21:45:59] * viridari shudders
[21:46:37] <hjf> so um... how can I "empty" the ARC? i mean i want to DD a file but it's in ARC so the number isn't real
[21:47:08] <mui> export and import the pool
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[21:47:26] <hjf> mui: it's the root pool =D i wanted to avoid a reboot. oh whell
[21:47:36] <mui> :P
[21:47:40] <mui> but arc reads are very real
[21:47:45] <hjf> root@openindiana:/home/hjf# dd if=/dev/zvol/rdsk/rpool/swap of=/dev/null bs=1M
[21:47:50] <hjf> 536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 12.2205 s, 43.9 MB/s
[21:48:01] <mui> guess you can try iflag=direct
[21:48:02] <mui> or something
[21:48:06] <hjf> 43MB/s? i wonder how much of that was ARC :P
[21:48:10] <mui> not sure how deep that goes
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[21:49:07] <hjf> guess I'll need to reboot
[21:49:44] <hunter1> sorry - I was off net for a minute. Any pointers to puppet pkgs?
[21:49:44] <hjf> btw, what was the command to do a full reboot?
[21:49:48] <hunter1> init 5?
[21:50:01] <Tenzer> hunter1: That will shutdown the machine
[21:50:08] <Tenzer> hjf: reboot -p
[21:50:37] <hunter1> Tenzer : sorry , still find differences from centos/linux confusing.
[21:51:21] <viridari> hunter1: it's understandable. CentOS has a very very different heritage from OI. But then, such problems even exist in other Linux distros.
[21:51:22] <Tenzer> hunter1: On Linux it's "init 6"?
[21:51:59] <liberal> init 5 is full gui
[21:52:28] <liberal> well..highest runlevel there is
[21:52:31] <viridari> yes init 5 on CentOS is multiuser + xdm|kdm|gdm
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[21:54:08] <tsoome> init 5 = poweroff, init 6 = reboot
[21:54:32] <Tenzer> There's a run down of runlevels on different platforms on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runlevel :)
[21:54:47] <tsoome> init s = single user, init 0 = halt to prom (press any key for x86)
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[22:32:59] <matsim> Hi I have a question on http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Building+in+zones - I cann't ping my local network from the zone?
[22:33:11] <matsim> why should I verify?
[22:33:18] <matsim> s/why/what
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   February 13, 2012  
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