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   February 9, 2012  
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[00:03:04] <cis> brb
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[00:22:36] <viridari_> Alasdairrr: I made some veiled references to wiki access in an email I just sent to oi-dev.... I'm that Magnus feller if you want to hit me up privately here about it.
[00:23:37] <richlowe> I bet you nobody remembers why the wiki is configured as it is.
[00:23:53] <RoyK> hm... if resilver is running, and another drive in that VDEV dies, resilver is restarted - that doesn't make much sense, does it?
[00:24:24] <richlowe> it has to resilver both drives.
[00:24:30] <RoyK> I mean, I had perhaps 2 hours left of resilver on this rather full pool, when another drive in the same VDEV died
[00:25:01] <Alasdairrr> richlowe: nope
[00:25:01] <RoyK> wouldn't it be better if it just went on with the first drive and then started resilvering the next to the spare without interrupting/restarting?
[00:25:04] <RoyK> this is raidz2
[00:25:08] <Alasdairrr> viridari_: i'm about to open up registrations
[00:25:21] <richlowe> Alasdairrr: he responded re: that, and teh spam problem.
[00:25:37] <richlowe> RoyK: I bet you which is a better idea isn't always so clear cut, but yeah I think you'd ideally want it to press on there.
[00:25:50] <viridari_> Alasdairrr: did you see my email before you do that?
[00:26:14] <Alasdairrr> viridari_: yes
[00:26:18] <richlowe> RoyK: practically, because of the way resilver actually works, they may be pretty much equivalent.
[00:26:19] <Alasdairrr> viridari_: can you see infrastructure pages?
[00:26:26] <viridari_> Alasdairrr: I can.
[00:26:32] <richlowe> RoyK: you'd have to tell me how you're deciding it restarted. The %'s will increase because, well, there's more to do now.
[00:26:39] <RoyK> richlowe: just thinking if it continued to resilver the first one, it'll give me more time, that is, less time with two dead drives
[00:26:45] <Alasdairrr> viridari_: can you pm me a link that you can see?
[00:26:50] <viridari_> Alasdairrr: if I am supposed to be able to see that because of my expressed interest in helping with infrastructure, that's fine
[00:26:52] <richlowe> it is continuing to resilver the first one
[00:26:58] <Alasdairrr> viridari_: possibly
[00:27:00] <richlowe> that's what I mean, it's just doing it while also doing the other disk now
[00:27:06] <Alasdairrr> we can probably fix the spam witha better captcha
[00:27:11] <richlowe> it's not obvious to me that the block walk restarts, or that restarting it is necessarily going to do what you fear.
[00:27:13] <RoyK> richlowe: I've never seen a VDEV finish resilver before another
[00:28:03] <RoyK> richlowe: what happened was a resilver was running, a second drive died and a spare took over, resilver was restarted (zpool status showing resilver running for x minutes etc)
[00:29:01] <richlowe> the restarted resilver will resilver both drives, and only blocks that need to be. I'm not sure that "Restart" and "Carry on" are actually all that different in effect.
[00:29:19] <richlowe> depends on how it progresses through the devs, which I don't know off the top of my head.
[00:29:39] <Tenzer> viridari_: What we are talking about on the list is to open up for people to register themselves, in order to get access to edit pages. It can't really be compared to the current situation where anonymous users can comment on the pages
[00:33:13] <RoyK> richlowe: I guess the difference is that if it had carried on resilvering the first disk that died, it would have finished that drive hours ago, now it tells me it'll take far longer
[00:34:02] <viridari_> Tenzer: you definitely don't want to do that yet
[00:34:47] <RoyK> why not?
[00:35:08] <viridari_> RoyK: Alasdairrr is debriefed
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[00:35:14] <viridari_> RoyK: security issue
[00:36:24] <RoyK> debriefed?
[00:36:30] <Alasdairrr> it is fixed i think
[00:37:13] <viridari_> s/de//
[00:38:15] <xenol> Alasdairrr: yep, you fixed. i was watching it as i didn't realized something related to oi-infra is on wiki. now i cannot view it anymore :D
[00:39:14] <Alasdairrr> bit of a security cockup
[00:39:19] <Alasdairrr> nothing major divulged really
[00:39:24] <Alasdairrr> but we'll have to change a few passwords
[00:40:44] <viridari_> Alasdairrr: a suggestion about the passwords...
[00:41:04] <viridari_> Alasdairrr: I'd suggest not having any at all in the wiki, distribute using something like KeePass files
[00:41:28] <Alasdairrr> viridari_: yes
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[00:41:51] <Alasdairrr> we were thinking about replacing mailman with listbox
[00:42:03] <viridari_> you had me at "replacing mailman"
[00:42:06] <Alasdairrr> bdha kindly set us up with an account but nobody has had time to take ownership of that project
[00:42:19] <Alasdairrr> it is something that would be good to get done
[00:42:21] <Alasdairrr> interested?
[00:42:26] <viridari_> sure
[00:42:59] <xenol> i could help earlier, but nobody said anything..
[00:43:28] <Alasdairrr> viridari_ / xenol: want to work together on this?
[00:43:53] <viridari_> sure, if xenol still wants to work on this
[00:44:06] <xenol> sure
[00:44:19] <viridari_> I'll need to get access to the listbox account and shell/sudo on the mailman server to plan the transition
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[00:44:54] <viridari_> I'm already more familiar than I want to admit with Mailman
[00:44:54] <timclassic2> Should I replace the CBE steps located at http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Setting+up+the+recommended+build+environment with an installation of developer/build/cbe?
[00:45:05] <timclassic2> Or are there newer docs that I should be following?
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[00:45:47] <Alasdairrr> viridari_ / xenol: lets take it into #oi-dev
[00:47:00] <timclassic2> Whoops, gotta go, I'll ask again later.
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[11:43:01] <mattskic> Does anyone know if there is a "zdb" command on the live dvd? I can't import/mount my boot zpool…
[11:52:30] <RoyK> mattskic: does zpool import list it?
[11:52:48] <mattskic> zpool import => nothing
[11:53:08] <mattskic> spool import -f pool => no such pool available
[11:53:18] <mattskic> autocorrect…
[11:53:33] <RoyK> and cfgadm lists the devices correctly?
[11:56:00] <mattskic> I can't find "cfgadm" on the live disc. Do you have it's full path handy?
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[11:58:02] <mattskic> Hmm. appears there's no cfgadm on the live DVD. At least, in maintenance mode.
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[12:01:35] <tsoome> check with iostat -En or even just format, if you have all connected disks visible.
[12:03:57] <mattskic> No iostat either. I think live cd in maintenance mode = not very useful mode.
[12:14:24] <tsoome> no format either?
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[12:20:18] <mattskic> no. I think the live cd isn't booting correctly. i'd guess it's failing to mount the zpool and not continuing to mount the DVD itself.
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[15:42:49] <plaimi> o hai. I'm using openindana to check if a game I am currently involved with developing is cross-platform-ish. I am having a few troubles I was hoping you could address.
[15:43:42] <plaimi> firstly - when doing ./configure, it fails at the packagechecks for opengl, libpng & sdl. when removing them, it configured successfully. any ideas why this doesn't work?
[15:44:33] <plaimi> secondly - make fails because of undefined symbol [insert anything related to opengl or sdl here]. both opengl & sdl are installed. I've checked /usr/include as well as /usr/lib/amd/pkgcheck.
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[16:26:34] <Okona> did you check why configure fails, checked config.log?
[16:32:39] <plaimi> configure fails due to an unexpected '(' near [the line with pkgcheck gl]
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[17:49:36] <alexander__b> the computer I had user plaimi logged in from crashed a few times, so I'll be here instead if anyone has any proposed solutions for my two issues.
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[17:59:36] <nahamu> alexander__b: my initial guess would be that the packages you need for opengl, libpng, and sdl weren't installed.
[18:00:25] <nahamu> the checks are presumably there because the software needs those libraries, so of course if you take out the checks configure will succeed and compilation will fail.
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[18:12:46] <Kurlon> I've got a 14 disk FC shelf to play with. My thought for allocating it is to create a 6 device RAIDz2 vdev, add a 6 device mirror, then add two hot spares. Crazy silly redundant, but it's play time so why not? Read perf should rock.
[18:12:59] <Kurlon> How do I add the mirror in though?
[18:13:48] <Kurlon> If I understand correctly, after I create the initial raidz2 vdev, if I add to it that gets stripped in beside the existing vdev, yes?
[18:13:51] <fedoracoreuser> Kurlon, I think you create two raidz2 and then mirror them
[18:14:28] <Kurlon> Ok, that makes sense, do I just specify the zpool names as the vdevs when I add them together in a mirror?
[18:14:36] <alexander__b> nahamu: I checked the packagemanager, and they were there. I also checked /usr/include/ and usr/lib/ for the pc files.
[18:15:37] <fedoracoreuser> zpool create "pool1" raidz2 vdev1 vdev2 vdev3 vdev4 vdev5 vdev6
[18:16:05] <fedoracoreuser> then zpool create "pool2" raidz2 vdev7 ... ... vdev12
[18:16:30] <fedoracoreuser> then zpool attach mirror pool1 pool2
[18:17:57] <fedoracoreuser> add your spares with zpool add "pool1" spare vdev13 vdev14
[18:18:45] <fedoracoreuser> That should be how you do it. Honestly, I have never had enough devices to mess around with something like this, my max was 4 :(
[18:19:41] <nahamu> I don't think you can mirror to vdevs.
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[18:19:57] <nahamu> s/to/two
[18:19:58] <lennard> I've done a 3x7 raidz + 1 spare recently
[18:20:05] <lennard> but it was kinda a random guess
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[18:20:36] <nahamu> alexander__b: so all the headers were where they should be, but configure couldn't find them?
[18:21:20] <nahamu> is pkg-config installed?
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[18:24:14] <fedoracoreuser> ok, I was wrong. Create the pool with zpool create "pool name" vdev1-6
[18:24:48] <fedoracoreuser> then you add another mirror of vdevs with zpool add "pool name" mirror vdev7-12
[18:25:09] <fedoracoreuser> then you add the spares with zpool add "pool name" spare vdev13-14
[18:25:49] <Kurlon> I'll give it a go, makes sense though...
[18:26:24] <fedoracoreuser> read this first for pros and cons http://blogs.oracle.com/roch/entry/when_to_and_not_to
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[18:32:05] <alexander__b> nahamu: yes. no. pkgcheck is installed though.
[18:33:40] <Kurlon> That worked
[18:36:22] <nahamu> Kurlon: can you pastebin the output of zpool status? I'm curious.
[18:36:49] <Kurlon> Give me a min, box doesn't have a network connection at the moment...
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[18:39:12] <alexander__b> nahamu: that fixed it! thanks.
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[18:42:07] <nahamu> alexander__b: oh good. I was a about to throw in the towel and tell you you'd need someone smarter than me to help you.
[18:42:27] <Kurlon2> http://pastebin.ca/2115183
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[18:43:11] <nahamu> yeah, that pool is a 6-disk raidz2 striped with a 6-way mirror
[18:43:26] <nahamu> (I don't think that's what you want)
[18:43:33] <alexander__b> anyone have links to how to write openindiana packages?
[18:43:42] <Kurlon2> Yup, just did the math and you're right, I should only have 144GB available, not 236GB.
[18:44:16] <nahamu> I'm pretty certain that there is no way to mirror two vdevs together the way you described.
[18:44:37] <Kurlon2> Drat
[18:45:21] <nahamu> alexander__b: I'd check the wiki: http://wiki.openindiana.org
[18:45:58] <nahamu> Kurlon/Kurlon2: you could stripe together a pair of 6-disk raidz2
[18:46:04] <alexander__b> nahamu: th
[18:46:08] <alexander__b> nahamu: *thanks
[18:46:43] <nahamu> ZFS pools are essentially stripes across component vdevs
[18:46:44] <Kurlon2> That was my original thought, but then I got cute and thought tossing mirroring in could be fun.
[18:47:16] <nahamu> you *could* create a ZVOL on each of two separate pools and then mirror those.
[18:47:22] <nahamu> but that's a bad idea
[18:47:57] <Kurlon2> Thats what I was going to ask next.
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[18:48:10] <nahamu> zfs layered on top of zfs is bad for performance
[18:50:38] <RoyK> sounds bad for anything
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[19:17:04] <mui> nahamu: why?
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[19:30:16] <Triskelios> mui: writes on a zvol normally force synchronous writes on the underlying pool
[19:36:08] <mui> yes and thats good thing
[19:36:30] <mui> if it wouldnt, it would be quite dangerous
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[19:37:46] <Triskelios> not necessarily. if you're using them as block devices you can enable explicit cache flushing instead
[19:37:46] <mui> and you can control syncronizity by using sync-flag
[19:37:46] <mui> and if you use say, comstar + iscsi there, you can control it too via setting wbd
[19:38:27] <Triskelios> either way will either hit the log or force a transaction commit depending on the pending writes, though
[19:38:29] <mui> yeah but if you have zvol as part of mirror
[19:38:40] <mui> the point of writes should be on mirror, they NEEd to be on underlying pool
[19:38:44] <mui> it wouldnt be raid without(:
[19:40:04] <mui> people seem scared of nested configurations
[19:40:20] <Triskelios> if you're doing frequent flushes a single zvol can hog the available I/O
[19:40:48] <mui> but I haven't yet found anything (apart from the most obvious issues, like importing pool twice) that would make it unusable
[19:41:13] <mui> sure
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[19:41:37] <mui> thats just if your written data is more than underlying storage can handle in between of flushes
[19:41:42] <mui> which is kind of, reasonable
[19:42:02] <mui> you have more* even
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   February 9, 2012  
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