June 1, 2019 
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June 1, 2019 [00:03:24] <bookmark> cna't you just make your frustum really tight[00:03:55] <bookmark> like left = 0.001 right= 0.001 top 0.001 bottom 0.001[00:04:24] <derhass> so you just invented gluPickMatrix?[00:04:48] <bookmark> hehe[00:05:48] <bookmark> i mean if i wanted to implement picking i could get it down to the component level[00:06:39] <bookmark> there are millions of color to use for picking[00:07:52] <derhass> don't bother a GPU with picking[00:09:08] <bookmark> if i were doing component picking i'd need to send in an attribute[00:09:36] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:10:24] <bookmark> or maybe modify gl_VertexID[00:10:43] <derhass> Vertex ID for picking?[00:10:50] <derhass> if at all, gl_PrimitiveID[00:10:50] <Yaniel> sounds like a great idea![00:11:04] <Yaniel> you even get it interpolated across triangles![00:11:06] <bookmark> yeah gl_PrimitiveID sounds better[00:11:22] <Yaniel> I mean since we are talking about bad ideas, might as well go all the way[00:11:29] <bookmark> you can turn that off[00:11:34] <derhass> so GL_SELECT again?[00:12:00] * Yaniel ups the voltage on the bus-sized "SARCASM" sign[00:12:44] <derhass> up to 11![00:12:51] <Yaniel> I think it broke[00:13:06] <derhass> always the same[00:13:26] <Yaniel> can't get a good quality neon sign anywhere these days :([00:13:39] *** diwr <diwr!~diwr@unaffiliated/diwr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:13:55] <bookmark> anyone know where to get a nice clean webgl context?[00:14:06] <bookmark> no extra demo crap along with it[00:14:42] *** lucid-lullaby <lucid-lullaby!lucid-lull@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/lucid-lullaby> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[00:15:12] <bookmark> right now my codebase has this file that came from a demo and its all on one line and i dunno how to get rid of it because it has my webgl context i think[00:15:22] *** mefesto <mefesto!~user@107.145.49.162> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[00:15:23] <bookmark> note i think, but i'm not even sure of that[00:16:01] <bookmark> i searched it for context and came up with nothing[00:16:26] <Alec> bookmark: no that'll affect the perspective and other stuff[00:16:29] <Alec> Viewport it[00:16:55] <bookmark> ah[00:16:57] <Alec> and stop thinking of it in terms of colours - it doesn't care really about those.[00:17:54] <bookmark> i really dont care about picking that is why there is autodesk[00:18:21] <bookmark> and it doesn't cost much to render the whole scene in colors if i need picking[00:18:29] <Alec> If you don't see a system for what it really is you'll get it wrong when you try to reason about how and why it is the way it is[00:18:34] <bookmark> i was just commenting on it cuz you seem razzled about it[00:18:35] <Alec> So I'd care - but GL![00:18:54] <Yaniel> I'm not even sure if you two are serious anymore[00:19:24] <bookmark> Yaniel i'm not[00:19:36] <bookmark> im not messin with picking right now i said that[00:19:37] <derhass> serious about what?[00:19:55] <Alec> I dunno how else you could interpret what I said[00:20:05] <derhass> Alec is right about screwing up the projection, but wrong about the viewport[00:20:12] <bookmark> the only place i could see it being important is like to circle an object with you finger[00:20:26] <bookmark> and select then[00:20:34] <bookmark> but that has its own set of problems[00:21:06] <bookmark> like drawing where your finger was a growing the pixels till they find the main object whatever that means[00:21:39] <Alec> I'm not. The projection spits out stuff either in [-1,1]^3 or [0,1]^3 (shift right one divide by 2 to get first into second) - these have to go on the viewport (eg "pixels") - just render a few (Do I have to say you need to preserve aspect ratio?) right where the mouse is - this wont affect the projection a[00:21:46] <Alec> *at all[00:21:51] <Alec> derhass: ^[00:22:00] <bookmark> you could still use a tight projection for selection[00:22:02] <Alec> aliasing :([00:22:06] <bookmark> the center is still the center[00:22:32] <derhass> messing with the viewport is the totally wrong approach[00:22:38] <derhass> at least a a single measure[00:22:56] <derhass> you could basically build a pick matrix _and_ ajust the viewport accordingly[00:22:57] <Alec> You'd render the entire lot and then just ask it to sample where the mouse is?[00:23:03] <derhass> you could also scissor the rest out[00:23:24] <bookmark> yeah just discard it[00:23:30] <Alec> But double-buffering...[00:23:39] <Yaniel> are you going to remember the 3-frame elephant that barely fits in the room at some point?[00:24:29] *** krystcich <krystcich!~krystcich@088156132167.dynamic-ww-04.vectranet.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[00:24:37] <Alec> I regret that I can but only drown the horse for refusing to drink ;)[00:25:14] <Yaniel> namely that you have to stop everything to get your result back from the GPU[00:25:35] <Alec> What kind do you work with?[00:25:49] <Yaniel> or use a PBO to transfer it in the background[00:25:51] <derhass> Yaniel: I fixed a GL_STACK_OVERFLOW error due to glPushName today, so I certainly remember than elephant.[00:26:22] <Yaniel> derhass: good times[00:26:31] <derhass> having 13000 draw calls with 0 vertices didn't exactly help, either[00:26:53] <Alec> Yaniel: what kind of thing do you work with where it halts like that? Or do you mean time from the CPU side to get the result?[00:27:06] <Yaniel> I don't[00:27:18] <Alec> *do you know of?[00:27:18] <Yaniel> but you were going on with GL_SELECT so eagerly that I couldn't help but wonder[00:27:33] <Alec> I'm thinking Xbox360 with the L2-streaming thing[00:27:39] <Alec> I wasn't[00:28:27] <bookmark> anyone know the best video capture software?[00:28:44] <Yaniel> obs studio[00:28:48] <Alec> dashcams probably. maybe tied with CCTV[00:28:51] <bookmark> my nvidia crd isn't new enough for nvidia[00:29:18] <Yaniel> Alec: go home you're drunk. dashcams aren't software[00:29:20] <Yaniel> nor is cctv[00:29:27] <derhass> huh[00:29:33] <derhass> actually, I am drunk[00:29:36] <Alec> Yours has a tape? Oldschool[00:29:51] <Alec> Does liveleak count as software?[00:30:18] <Yaniel> no, it has a sensor, which last time I checked consisted of whole atoms and not just electrons[00:30:30] <Alec> You associate computing with electrons?[00:30:49] <Alec> I'm gonna push down my automata into you one day[00:31:01] <Alec> That was supposed to sound educating not like a rape threat - jesus, sorry about taht.[00:31:38] <Alec> OMG "let me tell you about holes" :P[00:31:38] <derhass> hmmm[00:31:43] <Alec> (get it?)[00:31:54] <derhass> maybe not drunk enough for this kind of discussion[00:32:10] * Alec dopes derhass's drink[00:32:18] <Yaniel> yeah, there's a hole in the 'b' of '/mode +b'[00:32:29] <Alec> I'm going to stop now 'cos these are not coming out right.[00:32:40] <Yaniel> glad you noticed[00:33:08] <bookmark> you guys ever mess with javascript?[00:33:17] <Alec> lol no, we have actual programmer jobs[00:33:22] <bookmark> ;p[00:33:25] <derhass> bookmark: only if it can't be avoided[00:34:26] <Alec> Speaking of holes, purely out of interest, how many people presently here (so us lot really) "can do" basic topological homotopy stuff like the fundamental group and such.[00:34:45] <gehn> anyone have any idea why wglCreateContextAttribsARB would fail while wglCreateContext works fine?[00:34:58] <Yaniel> I think my hint was too subtle for Alec[00:35:05] <derhass> at last! a useful on-topic question[00:35:14] <Alec> There's nothing bad there Yaniel that's a real thing[00:35:17] <gehn> I have confirmed and double checked that the integer pixel format returned when I create the initial context for the purpose of loading extensions is the same as the one passed to the ARB variant[00:35:28] <derhass> gehn: a) asking for unsupported stuff, b) the whole wgl extension not supported[00:35:41] <gehn> what do you mean by not supported?[00:35:48] <gehn> I don't think I'm asking for anything unsupported[00:35:51] <bookmark> so no one here dabble in webgl? what a shame[00:35:57] <derhass> so what are you asking for?[00:35:57] <Alec> Unless I missed the warning? I thought it was because "doping a drink with positivity" went really badly, as did the pushdown automata mention?[00:36:01] <gehn> I literally have only the version major/minor and the core profile mask[00:36:02] <gehn> that's it[00:36:25] <derhass> so what exactly are you asking for?[00:36:26] <Yaniel> bookmark: not sure how you expect answers when you change the topic every 5 minutes[00:36:32] <derhass> and what error are you getting?[00:37:25] <bookmark> hey i only been speaking on js and webgl[00:37:25] <gehn> I don't get an error really, it's just that the returned HGLRC context is null[00:37:28] <bookmark> ehehe[00:37:35] <derhass> gehn: GetLastError()[00:37:36] <bookmark> oh you mean off topic?[00:37:44] <bookmark> yeah i guess[00:37:47] <derhass> bookmark: you didn't ask a specific question[00:37:59] <bookmark> oh[00:38:08] <bookmark> i think i just find what i was after anyway[00:38:08] <derhass> ou just create a canvas and const gl = canvas.getContext("webgl"); is enough if webgl is supported[00:38:12] <gehn> oh that's right, GetLastError() gives me 3221684311[00:38:16] <Yaniel> "anybody used JS?" "really, nobofy with webgl experience?"[00:38:19] <gehn> but when I google for that, I get pretty much nothing[00:38:20] <bookmark> yeah i see that[00:38:28] <derhass> gehn: show the code[00:38:34] <Yaniel> also https://dontasktoask.com/[00:38:39] <gehn> also the only single result that's like, not in chinese is saying something about the shared stuff[00:38:48] <gehn> but I'm passing NULL as the second param to indicate no sharing should happen[00:39:08] <bookmark> http://sorryididntknowtheymadeurlsforyoutobesnidewith.com[00:39:33] <gehn> https://theyvebeendoingthatforeverdidntyougetthememo.com[00:39:34] <derhass> gehn: ignore the higher 16 bit, the error code seems to be 0x57[00:39:44] <Yaniel> bookmark: no that's an actual URL and I meant for you to read it[00:40:01] <bookmark> so[00:40:04] <gehn> derhass, oh ok that should help, let me google on that one instead[00:40:06] <derhass> ERROR_INVALID_PARAMETER[00:40:29] <derhass> I can only repeat: show the code[00:41:16] *** mukunda <mukunda!~mukunda@adsl-68-19-173-197.jan.bellsouth.net> has joined ##OpenGL[00:41:31] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[00:41:52] <gehn> there's too much for me to just dump in a single paste right now[00:41:52] <gehn> https://pastebin.com/uyWAbwkK[00:42:16] <gehn> I am well aware of how to create a test case, it's just not something I can do instantly[00:42:19] <derhass> so you're missing something curcial here[00:42:49] <derhass> you're missing the atttribute terminator[00:42:53] <gehn> oh![00:42:55] <gehn> duh, yes I am[00:43:12] <gehn> thank you[00:43:43] <derhass> btw: is this an intel GPU by any chance?[00:43:54] <gehn> nvidia[00:43:58] <gehn> 1080ti[00:44:06] <derhass> ok, interesting[00:44:26] <gehn> er, not to be snarky, but what's interesting about that? it's a pretty common card isn't it?[00:44:34] <derhass> I've only seen intel screwing up the higher word of the error code with 0xc00X so far[00:44:48] <gehn> ah ok[00:44:48] <derhass> might be a windows bug then[00:45:03] <gehn> yeah it wouldn't surprise me[00:45:14] <gehn> everything else developer wise is basically crap on windows so why not this :P[00:45:53] <derhass> it is probably supposed to only use the higher bits of the error code internal between the ICD and the system, but it should not apppear in GetLastError[00:46:00] *** bpmedley <bpmedley!~bpm@2600:1700:eb20:6050:1ddd:1994:8a2a:64ba> has joined ##OpenGL[00:47:02] <gehn> well holy hello[00:47:04] <gehn> it works[00:47:27] <derhass> WGL_ARB_create_context isn't exactly rocket science :)[00:47:52] <derhass> btw, while you're at it, alsoe request a debug context[00:48:01] <derhass> at least for debug builds or on some option[00:48:08] <gehn> ok[00:48:39] <gehn> so, this? WGL_CONTEXT_DEBUG_BIT_ARB[00:50:10] <derhass> WGL_CONTEXT_FLAGS_ARB[00:50:39] <gehn> ok, if you don't mind, can you give an example of how to set this?[00:50:53] <derhass> WGL_CONTEXT_FLAGS_ARB, WGL_CONTEXT_DEBUG_BIT_ARB[00:50:57] <derhass> in your attribs[00:51:00] <gehn> ok thanks[00:51:12] <derhass> and then, install a debug callback[00:51:28] <derhass> https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Debug_Output[00:51:47] <gehn> cool[00:52:09] <derhass> it is funny (and sad) how many people don't know about GL debug output[00:54:07] <gehn> it's mentioned in the redbook, I just hadn't gotten that far yet[00:54:32] <gehn> but it's also great to have it in place already thanks to your help, so cheers[00:55:10] <gehn> derhass, what are you drinking? I'm an IPA guy, mostly.[00:56:45] <derhass> gehn: I had a czech lager and a local bock beer[00:57:54] *** Lunatrius <Lunatrius!~Lunatrius@77.38.21.48> has joined ##OpenGL[00:59:43] <gehn> cool, I like a good lager as well[01:03:09] <derhass> and a bad bruce campbell movie[01:07:37] <zy]x[yz> groovy[01:22:27] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@213.109.220.34> has joined ##OpenGL[01:23:46] *** serg-z_ <serg-z_!~serg-z@37.99.49.183> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[01:41:00] *** alexge50 <alexge50!~alexge50@unaffiliated/alexge50> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:41:20] *** alexge50 <alexge50!~alexge50@unaffiliated/alexge50> has joined ##OpenGL[01:42:59] <bookmark> ah heck.... i just figured out why my connection with socket.io was slow[01:43:04] <bookmark> woot[01:43:15] <bookmark> and fixed it[01:43:25] <bookmark> so now i have a webgl client pretty much[01:43:33] <bookmark> thats good[01:44:09] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@222-153-253-249-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined ##OpenGL[01:59:01] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@213.109.220.34> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2 - https://znc.in)[02:04:24] *** ephemer0l_ <ephemer0l_!~ephemer0l@pentoo/user/ephemer0l> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[02:10:22] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@37.99.48.239> has joined ##OpenGL[02:17:25] *** ephemer0l <ephemer0l!~ephemer0l@pentoo/user/ephemer0l> has joined ##OpenGL[02:40:01] *** realz <realz!~realz@unaffiliated/realazthat> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[02:52:33] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[02:56:38] *** ephemer0l is now known as ephem3r0l[02:57:00] *** ephem3r0l is now known as ephemer0l_[03:09:38] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7njc8x3fpdi21s.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[03:18:28] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has joined ##OpenGL[03:24:48] *** mukunda_ <mukunda_!mukunda@adsl-68-19-150-5.jan.bellsouth.net> has joined ##OpenGL[03:26:31] *** mukunda <mukunda!~mukunda@adsl-68-19-173-197.jan.bellsouth.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:26:59] *** paperManu <paperManu!~paperManu@138.197.128.151> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in)[03:27:35] *** paperManu <paperManu!~paperManu@138.197.128.151> has joined ##OpenGL[03:34:05] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has joined ##OpenGL[03:41:11] *** KAHR-Alpha <KAHR-Alpha!~Alpha@2a01cb0d024a66006d9a8426ec6436e1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:44:00] *** Jeanne-Kamikaze <Jeanne-Kamikaze!~Jeanne-Ka@205.234.124.69> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:45:21] <gehn> how can I tell whether the profile or context I get from something like wglGetContext is actually the core profile and not the compatibility profile?[03:48:21] <bookmark> did you try google?[03:48:43] <bookmark> i have no idea i was just thinking it sounds like something that might be on there[03:49:33] <gehn> yes[03:49:43] <gehn> it all seems to be info about choosing them and which one to choose[03:49:56] <gehn> not how to detect if the resulting created context is actually using the one I wanted[03:50:55] <derhass> glGet(GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_MASK,...)[03:51:15] <derhass> although doing that is quite useless[03:51:20] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[03:51:34] <derhass> iy you ask for one, the driver is obligued to provide one, or error out[03:52:20] <gehn> so, then is that not a true answer?[03:52:30] <gehn> like is that reliable? unreliable? partly reliable partly not?[03:55:27] *** dansho <dansho!~dansho4@71-84-161-204.dhcp.astr.or.charter.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:56:32] <derhass> it is useless[03:56:41] <derhass> it onlytells you what you already know[03:56:53] <bookmark> check it out the one on the top is my webgl client the one on the bottom is my opengl server: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygVsJL2nWoA&feature=youtu.be[03:56:54] <gehn> ok, so is there not a way to actually do this?[03:57:03] <gehn> like, is there a non-useless way?[03:57:05] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[03:59:14] <derhass> you didn't get my point[04:00:12] <gehn> I guess not[04:00:17] <gehn> what is your point?[04:11:48] *** tab-key <tab-key!~mantra@2601:601:c980:8fd:9529:9608:3123:369d> has joined ##OpenGL[04:13:01] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has joined ##OpenGL[04:17:01] *** DrGonzo <DrGonzo!~DrGonzo@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[04:18:16] *** gehn <gehn!gehn@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/gehn> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:18:53] *** DrGonzo <DrGonzo!~DrGonzo@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:21:20] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 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<mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined ##OpenGL[08:58:23] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##OpenGL[09:10:36] *** mukunda <mukunda!~mukunda@adsl-68-19-150-5.jan.bellsouth.net> has quit IRC ()[09:33:58] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[09:40:26] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[09:46:15] *** maxtothemax <maxtothemax!~maxtothem@2601:1c2:600:1d47:7e9f:b0e6:ef79:861> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[09:47:08] *** krystcich <krystcich!~krystcich@088156132167.dynamic-ww-04.vectranet.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[09:49:38] *** maxtothemax <maxtothemax!~maxtothem@2601:1c2:600:1d47:7e9f:b0e6:ef79:861> has joined ##OpenGL[09:56:22] <karalaine> gehn, in case you are still wondering, you either get context you asked for or you dont get context at all (in terms of core vs compatibility), so you know that its good[09:57:23] <gehn> karalaine, ok, so like my context would be NULL for example and so that would signal an error if it can't give me what I asked for?[10:00:13] *** maxtothemax <maxtothemax!~maxtothem@2601:1c2:600:1d47:7e9f:b0e6:ef79:861> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[10:04:12] *** maxtothemax <maxtothemax!~maxtothem@2601:1c2:600:1d47:7e9f:b0e6:ef79:861> has joined ##OpenGL[10:06:58] *** Kingsqueee <Kingsqueee!~Kingsquee@2604:3d08:1481:e00::e3be> has quit IRC (Quit: https://i.imgur.com/qicT3GK.gif)[10:12:33] <karalaine> gehn, yes, as the documentation states https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/api/wingdi/nf-wingdi-wglcreatecontext[10:13:31] *** charlie5 <charlie5!~rod@pa49-180-149-4.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:14:42] <karalaine> well, in real world you will be calling also wglCreateContextAttribsARB but the case is same 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(www.adiirc.com))[13:05:53] *** Foaly <Foaly!~Foaly@ppp-188-174-17-212.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Now 'mid shadows deep falls blessed sleep.)[13:29:46] *** CoolerZ <CoolerZ!~coolerext@14.139.38.135> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[13:40:48] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined ##OpenGL[13:57:33] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[13:57:56] *** KAHR-Alpha <KAHR-Alpha!~Alpha@lfbn-rei-1-30-88.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[14:02:43] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@0547857b.skybroadband.com> has joined ##OpenGL[14:03:36] *** DarkShin_ <DarkShin_!~DarkShin@177.188.39.79> has joined ##OpenGL[14:08:21] *** neure <neure!~tsuoranta@mobile-access-b0482f-168.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[14:13:06] *** charlie5 <charlie5!~rod@pa49-195-151-31.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au> has joined ##OpenGL[14:13:17] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:13:22] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7njc8x3fpdi21s.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[14:13:37] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined ##OpenGL[14:14:24] *** shhuun <shhuun!~shun@dhcp-178-16.ens-lyon.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[14:16:52] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[14:22:33] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has joined ##OpenGL[14:31:13] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:33:01] *** DrGonzo <DrGonzo!~DrGonzo@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[15:00:25] <neure> hi[15:00:38] <neure> anyone using persistently mapped buffer for uniforms?[15:05:02] *** slime <slime!~slime73@blk-215-81-93.eastlink.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[15:06:43] <derhass> just ask the real question[15:09:52] *** shhuun <shhuun!~shun@dhcp-178-16.ens-lyon.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[15:12:45] *** shhuun <shhuun!~shun@dhcp-178-16.ens-lyon.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[15:24:15] <neure> should I just use coherent mapping, or flush before draw calls?[15:25:38] *** Kane_ <Kane_!~Kane@home.yarg.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[15:26:06] *** Kane <Kane!~Kane@home.yarg.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[15:39:29] <Alec> Abstract it[15:39:37] <Alec> Be able to switch[15:41:32] <neure> sure, just wondering[15:43:09] *** Kane_ <Kane_!~Kane@home.yarg.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[15:44:35] <neure> In general I suppose I should use map_unsynchronized_bit ?[15:44:49] <neure> I haven't really used persistently mapped buffers before[15:44:53] <Alec> In general you should abstract stuff ;)[15:45:03] <derhass> never use map_unsynchronized[15:45:23] <neure> why never?[15:46:05] <neure> i can guarantee the range I edit is not in use, so shouldn't I be able to use unsynchronized?[15:47:48] <derhass> map unsychronized is a moot point if you going to map persistently anyway[15:48:27] <derhass> it is just that map_unsychronized forces a driver sync on nvidia[15:48:45] <neure> weird[15:48:47] <Alec> neure: as a rule of thumb with concurrency - as I'm sure you know premature optimisation is a nazi invention or something - always go for the strongest and easiest memory fences and the like relaxing is optimisation[15:48:57] <Alec> Also have something assert the fuck out it[15:49:07] <derhass> neure: not a bit weird when you think about it[15:49:15] <slime> derhass: i don't remember hearing that... are you sure you're not mixing up regular mapping?[15:49:43] <neure> derhass, docs on unsycnhronized dont really tell what it actually does and how it interacts with other bits[15:50:57] <slime> when would the driver sync happen, in a persistently mapped buffer?[15:51:02] *** neure <neure!~tsuoranta@mobile-access-b0482f-168.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:51:23] <slime> on a non-persistent buffer it would happen on map, right?[15:51:56] <Alec> Oh he's gone[15:52:23] <Alec> It does what it says on the tin: read/writes even if doing *ought* to be synchronised[15:54:30] <derhass> slime: nvidia talked extensively about this[15:54:44] <slime> for non-persistent buffers, when mapping, yes[15:54:56] <slime> but for persistent buffers the only sync point is the initial map[15:55:55] <derhass> sure[15:56:05] <derhass> "15:47:48 < derhass> map unsychronized is a moot point if you going to map persistently anyway"[16:08:22] *** mukunda <mukunda!~mukunda@adsl-68-19-150-5.jan.bellsouth.net> has joined ##OpenGL[16:17:38] *** krystcich <krystcich!~krystcich@088156132075.dynamic-ww-04.vectranet.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[16:30:23] *** CoolerZ <CoolerZ!~coolerext@14.139.38.135> has joined ##OpenGL[16:41:11] *** Elysion <Elysion!~Elysion@ppp14-2-74-58.adl-apt-pir-bras31.tpg.internode.on.net> has joined ##OpenGL[16:56:04] *** Foaly <Foaly!~Foaly@ppp-188-174-17-212.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has joined ##OpenGL[17:06:10] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[17:06:52] *** smitop <smitop!uid328768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftwntpsbohtogduc> has joined ##OpenGL[17:07:52] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined ##OpenGL[17:22:58] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has joined ##OpenGL[17:23:08] *** CoolerZ <CoolerZ!~coolerext@14.139.38.135> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:23:35] *** CoolerZ <CoolerZ!~coolerext@14.139.38.135> has joined ##OpenGL[17:25:06] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has joined ##OpenGL[17:26:11] *** shhuun <shhuun!~shun@dhcp-178-16.ens-lyon.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[18:08:54] *** blackpawn <blackpawn!blackpawn@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/blackpawn> has joined ##OpenGL[18:10:05] *** random_yanek <random_yanek!~random_ya@host-89-230-164-227.dynamic.mm.pl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[18:17:26] *** random_yanek <random_yanek!~random_ya@host-89-230-171-175.dynamic.mm.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[18:37:38] *** gehn <gehn!gehn@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/gehn> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:42:57] *** victorqueiroz <victorqueiroz!uid340368@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqjhdvlyspvgaaju> has joined ##OpenGL[18:43:00] <victorqueiroz> http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/intermediate-tutorials/tutorial-13-normal-mapping/ I saw in this tutorial that you should use a different buffer for tangent and bitangents. Is that really necessary?[18:44:20] *** lilabsence <lilabsence!~RizzoTheR@dyndsl-037-138-067-098.ewe-ip-backbone.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[18:44:39] <derhass> victorqueiroz: no[18:45:52] <derhass> although I have no idea how you got that idea from that page[18:46:03] <derhass> since they're using one big interleaved VA[18:48:04] *** Foaly <Foaly!~Foaly@ppp-188-174-17-212.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Now 'mid shadows deep falls blessed sleep.)[18:53:15] *** CoolerZ <CoolerZ!~coolerext@14.139.38.135> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:53:16] *** CoolerY <CoolerY!~coolerext@14.139.38.135> has joined ##OpenGL[18:54:02] *** jesse1010 <jesse1010!~user@68-113-87-53.static.leds.al.charter.com> has joined ##OpenGL[18:54:15] <jesse1010> can new GPUS run older opengl versions?[18:55:11] <dav1d> yes[18:55:39] <jesse1010> what version of opengl should I learn If I want to target older OSs + new ones[18:55:46] <Yaniel> 3.3[18:55:47] <jesse1010> windows 98 -> windows 10[18:55:53] <Yaniel> oh, windows 98[18:56:03] <Yaniel> then probably 1.0[18:56:07] <Yaniel> and weep[18:56:34] <jesse1010> 1.0 is the last version of opengl that supports win98?[18:56:46] *** tab-key <tab-key!~mantra@2601:601:c980:8fd:9529:9608:3123:369d> has joined ##OpenGL[18:56:47] <Yaniel> not sure if win98 supports any version of opengl at all[18:57:47] <jesse1010> im sure it does[18:57:50] <derhass> actually, opengl 1.1 is part of the win32 api in win98[18:57:53] <jesse1010> how about win 2000[18:58:00] <Yaniel> (not sure what kind of reason you'd have to support win98 to begin with)[18:58:07] <derhass> and I used to use OpenGL 2.0 a lot on win98[18:58:09] <jesse1010> nostalgia[18:58:28] <derhass> you just need to find an old enough GPU to still come with a win98 driver[18:59:16] <derhass> jesse1010: your questions are beside the point[18:59:30] <derhass> the windows version is not tied to the GL version or vice versa[18:59:46] <derhass> apart from microsofts GDI software renderer[18:59:58] <derhass> you get GL 1.0 with win98 and 1.1 ever since[19:00:05] <derhass> *win95[19:01:17] <jesse1010> So I just need an old gpu with drivers for windows[19:01:30] <Yaniel> *for old windows[19:01:31] <jesse1010> what if I run win98/2000 in a vm[19:01:36] <jesse1010> yeah[19:01:47] <derhass> VMs change the stuff a bit[19:01:48] <Yaniel> then you probably want to try your luck with the GDI software renderer[19:02:06] <derhass> but not sure what guest stuff is still supported by the various VM's gl acceleration approaches[19:02:25] <derhass> also, you can just use some mesa windows software renderer build[19:02:47] <jesse1010> but the thing is I want this to be maximum cross platform[19:02:51] <jesse1010> win/linux and mac os[19:02:56] <derhass> so what?[19:03:09] <derhass> I don't see how this relates to anything here[19:03:16] <jesse1010> mesa windows renderer sounds like windows only[19:03:40] <derhass> again: so what?[19:04:26] <derhass> you were talking about win98, not we[19:04:51] <derhass> I doubt that you will find any reasonably modern GPU driver for that system[19:06:13] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##OpenGL[19:09:22] <derhass> getting stuff compiled and linked so that it still runs on win98 will be a bigger challenge than getting something run on prehistoric GL1.x[19:09:53] *** ville <ville!~ville@212-149-214-47.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Quit: xserver update)[19:11:46] *** ville <ville!~ville@212-149-214-47.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[19:14:54] <jesse1010> ok what if I only wanted cross platform for the latest Os's[19:15:03] <jesse1010> I imagine the latest opengl would be the way to go[19:15:12] <derhass> no[19:15:40] <derhass> the actual GPUs out there are a bigger limitation[19:16:01] <derhass> first of all: you sad linux/win/macos[19:16:03] <jesse1010> isnt opengl an abstraction of the gpus[19:16:03] <derhass> forget macos[19:16:08] <jesse1010> no[19:16:12] <derhass> apple deprecated GL in their OS[19:16:12] <jesse1010> macos is a big market[19:16:35] *** smitop <smitop!uid328768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftwntpsbohtogduc> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[19:16:46] <derhass> MacOS GL support already is horrible[19:16:51] <derhass> it won't get any better[19:17:02] <derhass> if you want to target MacOS, use metal[19:17:09] <derhass> that's what apple wants you to do[19:17:20] *** DrGonzo <DrGonzo!~DrGonzo@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[19:18:46] *** learning <learning!~learningc@121.121.98.127> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[19:18:47] <jesse1010> how are there games on mac os then?[19:19:01] <derhass> most still use GL[19:19:26] <derhass> but that does not mean that they will still run in one of the next OSX releases[19:19:43] <derhass> it is totally unclear what apple will do, actually[19:19:59] <derhass> but your whole approach is moot anyway[19:20:30] <derhass> you were talking about win98, and then about latest GL version, and seem to have no idea what that actually means[19:22:23] <derhass> the GL support on OSX stopped at 4.1, which was 9 years ago by now[19:22:51] *** Kane <Kane!~Kane@home.yarg.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[19:25:52] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[19:33:17] *** alexge50 <alexge50!~alexge50@unaffiliated/alexge50> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:38:47] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[20:22:33] *** Kestrel-029 <Kestrel-029!~Nicmavr@unaffiliated/nicmavr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:23:52] *** Nicmavr <Nicmavr!~Nicmavr@unaffiliated/nicmavr> has joined ##OpenGL[20:44:06] *** smitop <smitop!uid328768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qslwfvhecvesqlnh> has joined ##OpenGL[20:57:18] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@0547857b.skybroadband.com> 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