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[00:03:09] <sadtaco> So I'm confused on something
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[00:03:31] <sadtaco> SDL can be compiled to JS with emscripten? But then how does it access all those libraries it access?
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[00:04:36] <sadtaco> waynes, Firefox and Chrome have WebGL2 behind flags you have to enable
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[00:10:26] <btipling_> is my irc client broken
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[00:14:28] <dahlia> btipling_: yes
[00:14:42] <btipling_> wtf is that
[00:14:51] <btipling_> why would that be a thing
[00:14:58] <slime> sadtaco: which libraries?
[00:15:14] <sadtaco> Er, SDL 2.0?
[00:15:21] <slime> yes
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[00:15:29] <sadtaco> <slime> yes, SDL2 supports webgl via emscripten
[00:15:54] <slime> it has emscripten windowing/input/etc backend code
[00:15:55] <sadtaco> I don't follow how that works. Does emscripten do specific conversions to translate it to webgl bindings?
[00:16:05] <dahlia> yes
[00:16:07] <slime> emscripten does translate opengl es 2 calls to webgl
[00:16:14] <sadtaco> Oh. Okay.
[00:16:27] <sadtaco> That's.. very interesting.
[00:16:32] <dahlia> I think it's in emscripten.h
[00:16:48] <sadtaco> Not something for me, though.
[00:16:57] <dahlia> or you can compile it so it shows all the code in plain text
[00:17:11] <sadtaco> I'd rather do the other way around. Write in JS with specific API for opengl es 3 calls that gets compiled to native.
[00:17:42] <dahlia> good luck with that :)
[00:18:25] <sadtaco> There is uh
[00:18:36] <sadtaco> nodejs modules for opengl bindings beyond webgl.
[00:18:55] <dahlia> I think native apis are a security risk
[00:18:57] <sadtaco> But it's a different matter to have that plus nodejs itself running as an application.
[00:19:25] <sadtaco> and on different platforms
[00:19:36] <sadtaco> so idk
[00:20:03] <sadtaco> That would be ideal, if I could simply bundle nodejs as an application on multiple platforms with one of those modules for open gl es 3.0 bindings
[00:20:41] <dahlia> I think the problem is all the h4x0rs will use any vulnerability they can find in a browser and native apis are not secure
[00:21:06] <sadtaco> idk how'd that happen without some eval() laying around to make its own native calls
[00:21:22] <dahlia> so the browsers wrap all the GL apis with a bunch of stuff to make sure no ebil happens
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[00:47:46] <reduz> what am I doing wrong? :( http://pastebin.com/ZFfpWfAQ
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[00:48:45] <reduz> when I later run glBindVertexArray(data.canvas_quad_array); to draw, it doesn't work. If I bind the thing manually without VAO it runs fine
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[00:55:09] <Nimmy> reduz how do you draw it
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[01:05:55] <reduz> Nimmy,
[01:05:58] <reduz> glBindVertexArray(data.canvas_quad_array);
[01:05:58] <reduz> glDrawArrays(GL_TRIANGLE_FAN,0,4);
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[01:06:47] <reduz> if I replace glBindVertexArray for setting up the buffer manually (no VAO), it works
[01:07:27] <Nimmy> well i dont see anything wrong with your pastebin code
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[01:41:12] <reduz> Nimmy, neither do I and I don't see any gl error
[01:41:33] <Nimmy> how big is your code
[01:41:40] <Nimmy> maybe paste all of it somewhere
[01:41:48] <Nimmy> or on git
[01:43:59] <reduz> oh, it was getting disabled later, i didn't realize the thing remains there and it can be further modified
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[03:16:16] <Cra2yZer0> how to use opengl to create a cube ?
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[03:17:41] <Cra2yZer0> I don't konw any linear algebra at all
[03:17:48] <foobaz> Cra2yZer0: try the tutorial in the topic
[03:19:37] <Cra2yZer0> i don't understand the mechanism of opengl
[03:19:59] <foobaz> you need to create an opengl context, compile/link shader programs, upload a VBO with the cube vertexes, create a VAO, bind your vertexes to shader attributes, and then call glDrawArrays or glDrawElements
[03:20:04] <Cra2yZer0> what means pipeline ?
[03:20:20] <foobaz> pipeline is like an assembly line
[03:20:27] <foobaz> there are many stages doing different kinds of work
[03:21:31] <Cra2yZer0> thanks, i'll try
[03:24:43] <foobaz> what is your goal? do you want to make a game?
[03:25:07] <foobaz> if you are a beginner you might want to use an easier graphics API, opengl is low level and difficult
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[04:21:23] <[_]b> g-truc had a cool poster of the entire opengl pipeline
[04:21:25] <[_]b> it was huge
[04:22:15] <[_]b> http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~pcozzi/OpenGLInsights/OpenGL44PipelineMap.pdf
[04:23:07] <[_]b> huge, yet beautiful
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[09:48:49] <Helel> [_]b, Xeek: Sorry to bother you again guys, but may it be that I'm having Z-Ordering problems because I'm trying to sort EVERY rendered object in view? As in, also the background tiles (which's what's fucking me up)? Just thought about this, do you guys only sort stuff that actually needs collision checking and whatnot, or do you sort everything at
[09:48:49] <Helel>  once (as in also background stuff)?
[09:51:12] <grim002> Helel, your question isn't specific about what your problem is
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[09:53:38] <Helel> grim002: Well, I asked it to these guys since I was talking to them yesterday night, but if you want to chim in: essentially, I'm having problems with Z-Ordering in 2D, and as stated above, I'm actually trying to sort every renderable object in view at once, which seems what's causing my issues. Do you guys usually sort only specific objects (i.e:
[09:53:38] <Helel> the ones that need to collide or do other stuff), or also tiles?
[09:54:10] <xaxxon> what is the actual problem?
[09:54:13] <grim002> that wasn't any more specific about what your problem is
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[09:54:20] <xaxxon> don't guess about what you think is causing it, just show the actual problem
[09:54:50] <Helel> Simply put, I can't get the objects to order correctly. What should be on top, isn't
[09:56:09] <grim002> and why do you think the number of things you're sorting should have anything to do with this?
[09:56:51] <Helel> It's the background tiles that sometimes appear on top, and that shouldn't be that way, so I was wondering if it's proper to also try to sort tiles (like background tiles) into the mix or just leave them be
[09:57:24] <Helel> grim002: No, that isn't the problem, more like the TYPE of things, I'm trying to sort both tiles and entities all at once, which is wrong, I'm starting to believe
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[09:57:43] <grim002> again, why do you believe that?
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[09:58:18] <grim002> OpenGL doesn't care what you are rendering
[09:58:41] <Helel> Indeed, I know that, so what's the problem, exactly?
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[09:59:02] <Helel> How would you handle 2D Z-ordering?
[09:59:30] <Helel> i tried using the Depth Buffer but it doesn't work as nicely with Blending
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[10:01:15] <grim002> you haven't described the problem, other than "doesn't appear in the desired order"
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[10:02:35] <Helel> grim002: What exactly do you need to know? I'm sorting them based on their Y + H, higher Y + H places the entity on top of others with a lower one
[10:03:22] <grim002> there are a dozen reasons you could have problems
[10:04:07] <grim002> maybe you haven't set the Y and Height of everything properly. maybe your game logic messes with those values. maybe your comparator or sorting algorithm are flawed. maybe you aren't uploading things in a proper manner.
[10:05:10] <Helel> grim002: As I said, my problem is actually my background tiles for now, since, when sorting, they're also placed in the sorting algorithm, which means that ANY background tile placed below ANY entity has a higher Y + H, which means they'll be rendered on top of them, that's what I was talking about before
[10:05:32] <Helel> grim002: That's why I asked if it were proper to sort everything at once or just whatever is logical to sort
[10:06:34] <Helel> grim002: I could divide them into proper layers, rendering background tiles, sorted entities and then whatever should always be on the foreground, but I wanted to try something else
[10:06:40] <grim002> so your sorting algorithm can't handle a tile behind an entity that starts at a higher position
[10:06:56] <grim002> yes, it sounds like you should do tiles separately
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[10:08:02] <grim002> if there's only one layer of tiles, you shouldn't need to sort them at all
[10:08:03] <Helel> grim002: Well, tbh I'm actually using std::sort to test it, but I'm sure I could work out a better algorithm suited for my needs, but I'm not sure if it could impact performance a lot if there were a lot of entities to be sorted
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[10:09:12] <grim002> my recommendation is timsort, which benefits from objects being mostly pre-sorted
[10:09:24] <grim002> std::sort is probably quicksort, which does not benefit from that
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[10:44:30] <Helel> Well, I fixed it by first sorting by their depth and then, for each depth level, sorting them by their Y + H positions
[10:45:08] <Helel> Going to check how much of a performance hit is going to cause with lots of tiles and entities now
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[15:24:43] <btipling> hi
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[16:43:31] <dau> uniform buffer object question: when I define such a std140 uniform block in, for example, my vertex shader - what do I do when I want to access some of these uniforms also in the geometry or fragmnet shader?
[16:43:44] <dau> do I have to define such a block in each shader?
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[16:49:27] <exDM69> dau: yes, I think that's the way to do it
[16:49:30] <exDM69> (too lazy to check)
[16:50:11] <dau> or perhaps, can I copy&paste the block definition and opengl is so clever to share it? (like it does with uniforms that have the same name)
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[17:00:00] <grim002> dau: copy and paste the whole block to every stage of the shader program you intend to use it in
[17:00:29] <grim002> the UBO is global state for the whole shader program at the moment of the draw call
[17:05:25] <dau> great, thanks
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[20:03:48] <magellan> Hi, is there anyone willing to give me their opinion on this argument I'm having with this professor regarding "blend shaders"?
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[20:09:59] <Codex_> magellan: what about them?
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[20:10:57] <magellan> Codex_: So, a question on a quiz asked "What is a blend shader? Describe what it does."
[20:11:16] <Nimmy> what is a blend shader
[20:11:27] * tomaka_ has no idea what a blend shader is
[20:11:28] <magellan> And my response was basically "blend shaders don't exist, the blending stage of the rendering pipeline is not a shader."
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[20:12:06] <magellan> I argued this in before class began today with the professor
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[20:12:24] <tomaka_> That's the kind of question about a terminology
[20:12:33] <Yaniel> Well, blend shaders don't exist in any of the current graphics APIs
[20:12:33] <Codex_> maybe they're thinking something else than glBlendFunc?
[20:12:39] <magellan> and a lot of his argument boils down to "I can make a blend shader. In unity, I can check of this box that enables blending; therefore, I just made a blend shader."
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[20:12:59] <tomaka_> When you're asking what A is, you're supposed to repeat what the teacher said about A instead of trying to interpret the name "A"
[20:12:59] <magellan> I argued that that isn't creating a blend shader, that is setting the blend mode of the rop
[20:13:04] <tomaka_> when you're asked*
[20:13:11] <Yaniel> But there is technically no reason why the blending  couldn't be programmable
[20:13:22] <Yaniel> A checkbox in unity?
[20:13:25] <Yaniel> Lol
[20:13:25] <slime> blending is programmable
[20:13:28] <slime> on some GPU architectures
[20:13:33] <slime> such as every iphone's GPU
[20:13:52] <Yaniel> Does metal expose that?
[20:13:59] <slime> e.g. https://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/extensions/EXT/EXT_shader_framebuffer_fetch.txt
[20:14:00] <slime> yes
[20:14:15] <Yaniel> Okay, then I stand correxted
[20:14:39] <Yaniel> Still, blend mode != blend shader
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[20:15:04] <slime> yeah
[20:15:06] <slime> well, it depends
[20:15:14] <magellan> I just want points back on my quiz :(
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[20:15:32] <slime> on architectures that support the above extension, it's likely that "blend modes" are implemented by patching the shader with some extra math at the end
[20:15:41] <slime> instead of an actual fixed function hardware thing
[20:15:44] <Yaniel> Sure
[20:16:06] <magellan> The fixed-function stages of the pipeline are not shaders though
[20:16:24] <slime> right
[20:16:55] <magellan> I think a lot of the argument boils down to whether or not "shader" means the same thing in a game development and graphics rendering context
[20:17:46] <magellan> Because if you can argue that "shader" in a game development context refers to a per-object material, then you can say that a shader consists of multiple shaders, textures, maps, modes, etc
[20:18:22] <Yaniel> Uhh what kind of course was this again
[20:18:42] <magellan> It's called "Introduction to the game development process"
[20:18:48] <magellan> It's an into game development course
[20:18:57] <magellan> I'm a senior taking this because I thought it would be fun
[20:19:13] <Yaniel> Because that explanation seems like a lot of handwaving
[20:19:38] <Yaniel> "It will be fun, they said"
[20:19:55] <Yaniel> Anyway I think even unity distinguishes between shaders and materials
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[20:27:59] <magellan> Can I use your quote as coming from "industry professionals?"
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[20:28:30] <magellan> Another of his points is that "I can use the term 'blend shader' with industry professionals and they will understand me."
[20:29:06] <Nimmy> Tell him we said "What the fuck is a blend shader"
[20:29:09] <magellan> I was doing research into this and the amount of references to the term in literature is sparse
[20:29:55] <magellan> And online, like in the unity docs or opengl wiki, the exact phrase "blend shader" appears 0 times
[20:31:40] <Nimmy> I mean i guess OpenGL could replace their blending constants for a little piece of shader code
[20:31:42] <Nimmy> but they havent
[20:31:47] <Nimmy> so theres that
[20:32:00] <zgreg> I guess your professor might be looking at this from a "high level" :)
[20:32:10] <magellan> That's another one of his arguments
[20:32:54] <magellan> He says that "calling it a blend shader is less confusing to people and more people will know what I'm talking about rather than using the technically correct terminology"
[20:33:00] <zgreg> but if unity doesn't have anything called "blend shader" of course it still doesn't make sense
[20:33:40] <Nimmy> i think we need quotes around "professor" as well
[20:34:06] <zgreg> Nimmy: heh
[20:34:14] <zgreg> the chinese students around here call everyone involved in teaching "professor" :p
[20:36:35] <magellan> I'm not going to reveal personally identifiable information about the professor, but I will note that he has 30 years of industry experience in software engineering
[20:36:49] <magellan> And he was the CTO of 4 fully-funded game startups
[20:37:09] <zgreg> magellan: ...and?
[20:37:31] <magellan> I don't understand why he calls fragment shaders "pixel shaders" and says that enabling blend mode makes my shaders into "blend shaders"
[20:37:52] <zgreg> pixel shaders is a common term
[20:38:10] <magellan> Yeah, I will cede that point
[20:38:24] <zgreg> if you insist on calling them fragment shaders that is quite a bit of nitpicking
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[20:41:14] <Nimmy> blending only happens after all shaders are executed
[20:41:25] <magellan> I have told him that too
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[20:41:45] <slime> (my earlier points still stand)
[20:41:46] <magellan> And that is explicity stated in the opengl wiki, directx wiki, unity docs, and unreal docs
[20:42:02] <slime> the term 'shader' in terms of graphics programming is older than programmable vertex and pixel shaders, though
[20:42:57] <magellan> A simple modern definition of shader is "A user defined program that runs on some stage of a graphics processor"
[20:44:23] <slime> in unity, their Shader objects and such control blending as well
[20:44:30] <slime> ( https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/SL-Blend.html )
[20:47:20] <magellan> So, in that case, the term "shader" refers to an object in the game engine that controls the entire rendering behavior which is different from the term "shader" in a rendering pipeline context. I guess I will give up my points then. :(
[20:47:54] <magellan> Even on that page, they state that blending occurs after the execution of shaders.
[20:48:45] <slime> the page should say "after all programmable shader stages" instead of "after all shaders" probably
[20:48:59] <slime> since a Shader object in unity encompasses most of thepipeline state, yeah
[20:50:08] <magellan> Yeah, the unity docs describes shader assets which are programmable in unity's ShaderLab language which includes, but are different from, shaders in a graphics pipeline context.
[20:50:49] <magellan> If the professor was using that definition of shader, then there is merit in his argument and we were talking about different concepts.
[20:50:57] <Yaniel> right
[20:53:02] <Yaniel> also hehe, "I can use the term 'blend shader' with industry professionals and they will understand me." ...they probably do the OpenGL thing and silently fail, but instead default to something that happens to match his expectation ;)
[20:53:37] <magellan> Lol. Alright guys, thanks for all the help. I guess I'll just eat the points and apologize.
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[21:25:17] <Xeronate> Can someone help me understand how the orthographic projection in glm works? I have tried many combinations of things, but I can't get my cube to show up on the screen.
[21:25:18] <Xeronate> https://gist.github.com/SeanScheetz/71666c943088bf8e44cfb7bad503255a
[21:25:50] <Xeronate> I think that the coordinates are being clipped after they are translated to view coordinates because the perspective transformation is wrong.
[21:25:57] <Xeronate> *projection
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[21:29:45] <derhass> Xeronate: your cube is half a pixel, at the bottom left corner
[21:30:24] <Xeronate> I don't understand what that is happening.
[21:30:25] <Xeronate> glm::perspective(45.0f, static_cast<GLfloat>(window.windowWidth) / static_cast<GLfloat>(window.windowHeight), 0.1f, 100.0f)
[21:30:31] <Xeronate> This perspective matrix works as expected
[21:30:43] <derhass> the ortho one does too
[21:30:58] <derhass> your setup is just weird
[21:31:01] <Xeronate> Right yeah I got that. But I guess I don't understand how the ortho one is working.
[21:31:32] <derhass> you are just defining an axis-aligned cuboid in eye space as the viewing volume, that's it
[21:31:47] <Nimmy> it makes your view a rectangle of Window.width wide and Window.height tall and 99.9 deep
[21:32:51] <Nimmy> your cube is 1 unit big
[21:33:03] <Nimmy> and it is in the bottom left of your screen
[21:33:29] <derhass> it is half outside of the screen, actually
[21:33:32] <Nimmy> yes
[21:33:48] <derhass> 3 thirds even
[21:33:59] <derhass> 3/4 I mean
[21:34:00] <Nimmy> 3 fourths
[21:34:01] <derhass> whatever
[21:34:04] <Nimmy> :p
[21:34:06] <Nimmy> so pedantic
[21:34:06] <Xeronate> lol well with your advice I at least drew it in the center of the sceren
[21:34:14] <Xeronate> gotta think about it some more though ha thanks
[21:34:31] <Nimmy> maybe change your ortho parameters to be -Window.width/2 to Window.width/2
[21:34:38] <Nimmy> and -Window.height/2 to Window.height/2
[21:34:46] <Xeronate> projection = glm::ortho(-5.0f, 5.0f, -5.0f, 5.0f, 0.1f, 10.0f)
[21:34:49] <Xeronate> is what I have rgith now
[21:34:53] <Nimmy> fair enough
[21:35:00] <Xeronate> your suggestion will center it , but it will still be 1 px big right?
[21:35:13] <derhass> yes
[21:35:16] <Nimmy> yes, you would have to make the cube bigger
[21:35:25] <Nimmy> or just do what you did now
[21:35:28] <derhass> or the view volume smaller
[21:35:41] <Xeronate> thanks..gotta a think a bit more about what makes it 1 px big but other than that I think I've got it
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[21:36:47] <Nimmy> well, your cube is 1 unit big
[21:36:58] <Nimmy> your view is Window.widthxWindow.height units big
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[21:37:18] <Nimmy> so your cube will occupy 1 / Window.width x 1 / Window.height space on your screen
[21:37:20] <Nimmy> or 1 pixel
[21:38:05] <Nimmy> 1 out of Window.width x 1 out of Window.height I should say*
[21:39:35] <Xeronate> thanks
[21:39:36] <Nimmy> now your view is 10x10 units, and your cube is 1x1, so it will take 1/10 of your window
[21:40:18] <derhass> in each direction. so it will be strechted with your aspect ratio
[21:42:49] <Xeronate> the near/far works the same way expect  it just changes how big it looks on the z axis
[21:43:24] <Xeronate> so if I use the same distance on all 3 axes my cube still won't look like a perfect cube because the dimensions of the window are different
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[21:44:29] <Nimmy> you have to scale your view width appropriate to your aspect ratio
[21:44:49] <derhass> (assuming your display's pixels are square)
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[21:45:43] <Xeronate> Heh man this is so hard.
[21:46:29] <Nimmy> you dont have to make your near/far the same as the other directions btw
[21:46:35] <derhass> Xeronate: it is quite simple if you draw it on paper
[21:46:43] <Nimmy> you will never see how far it goes in the Z -direction
[21:47:17] <derhass> Xeronate: if your window is twice as wise as it is tall, the part of the scene which is mapped to that window must also be twice as wide as it is tall, otherwise it will be stretched
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[21:47:55] <Xeronate> oh man yeah I was expecting my near far would have to be [-6.0f, 6.0f], but [0.1f, 100.0f] gives the same result
[21:48:16] <Xeronate> one sec derhass testing what yous adi
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[21:57:35] <Xeronate> okay so I tried scaling the model to 300x its size, and using the window to create the orthographic projection instaed of just making the viewing model smaller.
[21:58:00] <Xeronate> but now my model isn't showing up on the screen again =S. I feel like it is within the cuboid though
[21:58:01] <Xeronate> https://gist.github.com/SeanScheetz/71666c943088bf8e44cfb7bad503255a
[21:58:38] <Nimmy> you're inside the cube
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[21:58:42] <Nimmy> you need to move the view
[21:58:48] <Nimmy> and not in the negative direction
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[22:00:16] <derhass> Xeronate: draw it on paper
[22:00:26] <Xeronate> Okay one sec
[22:01:55] <xerpi> hi, I have a function that draws text (using a texture atlas). the function allocates 4 vertices and 4 texcoords in the stack, and for each glyph, I change them, then I upload the data to the GPU (glBufferSubData) and then I perform a glDrawArrays. afaik this is a very poor way of doing it, any suggestions?
[22:02:12] <xerpi> I think an improvement would be to use instancing, so only a draw call would be needed
[22:02:25] <Nimmy> VAOs
[22:02:35] <slime> you don't need instancing to batch it into one draw call
[22:02:51] <xerpi> but then I have to malloc, fill mesh data, draw, free on each font.drawText(...) call
[22:03:05] <slime> just keep the memory around if you need
[22:03:18] <xerpi> but the user can pass variable sized strings
[22:03:48] <xerpi> font.drawText(10, 10, "foo"); font.drawText(10, SCREEN_W - 100, "FPS: ..."); for example
[22:03:59] <slime> you still only need to reallocate if the size is larger than before, if you're keeping hte memory around
[22:04:25] <xerpi> yeah that would be a nice improvement, only realloc if new_size > old_size
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[22:05:28] <Nimmy> how much text is gonna be on screen
[22:05:34] <xerpi> not much
[22:05:36] <Nimmy> its hardly worth batching for 10 characters
[22:05:42] <xerpi> yeah
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[22:06:26] <xerpi> I'm already using a caching texture atlas so I have a nice performance improvement there over asking libfreetype every time for a glyph bitmap
[22:06:27] <Nimmy> just dont upload anything to the graphics card on each frame
[22:06:45] <derhass> Nimmy: why not?
[22:06:58] <xerpi> also this is going to be for 2d game, so I don't really need that "much performance"
[22:07:05] <Nimmy> derhass because its not necessary?
[22:07:14] <xerpi> Nimmy, what do you mean with that?
[22:07:15] <derhass> depends
[22:07:34] <Nimmy> xerpi use vertex buffer arrays to store your font character quads
[22:07:52] <Nimmy> and then bind the necessary characters to draw your text
[22:08:26] <Nimmy> alternatively
[22:08:44] <xerpi> so I should create a VAO for each glyph?
[22:08:58] <xerpi> this is what my code looks like right now: http://hastebin.com/yimaxigaze.cpp
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[22:09:46] <Nimmy> whats this for: glBindVertexArray(font->texture_vao);?
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[22:10:40] <xerpi> to use the vao
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[22:10:49] <Nimmy> what do you have stored in the vao
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[22:11:14] <xerpi> vertices and texcoords vbos
[22:11:26] <xerpi> positions and tex coords*
[22:11:38] <Nimmy> but.. you upload them to the graphics card before you bind it
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[22:12:19] <xerpi> well I do it in my constructor: http://hastebin.com/bugiguqofe.cpp
[22:12:52] <xerpi> iirc glVertexAttribPointer is what binds the VBO to the currently bound VAO
[22:13:03] <Nimmy> well you have two options
[22:13:28] <Nimmy> one VAO for each character and you dont upload any vertices or texCoords to the gpu on each frame, or your current approach
[22:13:41] <Nimmy> the VAO in your current approach is maybe a bit pointless
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[22:13:59] <xerpi> why is it pointless?
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[22:14:14] <xerpi> I'm relatively new to opengl as you can see xD
[22:14:18] <Nimmy> because you reupload the data on every frame
[22:14:32] <Nimmy> you can do that without binding a vao aswell
[22:15:06] <Yaniel> core profile mandates using a VAO
[22:15:13] <xerpi> but maybe there's another vao bound before calling font.drawText
[22:15:30] <Nimmy> which opengl version are you targetting
[22:15:43] <Yaniel> as long as you only set up the VAO once it should be okay
[22:15:46] <xerpi> I'm also not very good with OOP, so I'm not sure who should do the program bindings, vao bindings, passing attrib locations to other classes, etc
[22:16:41] <xerpi> yeah I should to the binding of the VAO in the beggining of the font.drawText method, not for each glyph
[22:19:23] <Nimmy> you need to figure out whats more expensive, binding a vao and uploading some position data for each character, or uploading all of the vertices and texturecoordinates for each character
[22:20:17] <Yaniel> binding a VAO is orthogonal to uploading anything
[22:20:17] <Xeronate> Okay I need a hint. I drew everything out, but I am not seeing it. Which axes am I inside the cube in?
[22:20:17] <Xeronate> https://gist.github.com/SeanScheetz/71666c943088bf8e44cfb7bad503255a
[22:20:37] <Nimmy> Yaniel what do you mean
[22:21:08] <Nimmy> Xeronate you should move the view by 500 not -500
[22:21:19] <Nimmy> You are looking in the forward direction behind the cube
[22:21:38] <Nimmy> and increase your near and far parameters
[22:21:38] <Yaniel> the VAO stores/loads vertex attribute pointer state, not buffer contents
[22:21:39] <xerpi> gonna check the FPSs, but this will be for a tiling based 2d game so I don't think I need to do things super optimally
[22:22:04] <Nimmy> Yaniel whats your point?
[22:22:41] <Yaniel> my point is that "binding a vao and uploading some position data for each character, or uploading all of the vertices and texturecoordinates for each character" does not make much sense
[22:22:57] <Nimmy> why not
[22:24:09] <Yaniel> because attrib pointers always point to whatever VBO was bound when they were set
[22:24:19] <Yaniel> and the VAO just stores that information for each attribute
[22:24:29] <Yaniel> whether the VBO contents change or not is irrelevant
[22:24:36] <Nimmy> yes?
[22:26:07] <Nimmy> im saying theres two approaches: either you store each font character in a separate VAO and bind them per character on drawing your string, but then you need to upload uniform position data to the shader to move the character to the correct place. Or the other approach being uploading vertex data or texture coordinate data directly to draw the stri
[22:26:07] <Nimmy> ng
[22:26:29] <Yaniel> separate VAOs for each character does not make sense
[22:26:40] <Yaniel> since they will all have the exact same vertex format
[22:27:15] <Nimmy> they vary by their size and anchor point
[22:27:31] <Nimmy> you can do that with a matrix but the question remains
[22:27:41] <Yaniel> vertex format == set of vertex attributes
[22:27:51] <Yaniel> all characters have vertex positions and texture coordinates
[22:28:32] <Yaniel> so you'll be effectively calling glVertexAttribPointer for each character, with exactly the same parameters
[22:28:44] <Nimmy> yes, once
[22:29:18] <Yaniel> and then you load that config for each character
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[22:29:31] <Yaniel> where the only actual change is the pointer
[22:29:38] <}> rawr, implementing audio in opengl turned out to be harder than I thought but I did it!
[22:30:11] <Yaniel> IMHO it would be much more sensible to make one VAO+VBO for all characters
[22:30:13] <Nimmy> then upload all character data to a single vbo and use offsets
[22:30:20] <Nimmy> vao*
[22:30:23] <Yaniel> and then construct an index buffer for each string
[22:31:00] <}> are you discussing text rendering? you can do it instanced if you keep a separate vbo around to store the texcoords+position offsets
[22:31:10] <Yaniel> again, there is absolutely no reason to bind different VAOs for each character
[22:31:26] <}> some of the implementations I've seen were quite terrible, calling glDrawArrays once per character
[22:31:40] <}> When you only need 1 call for any amount of characters
[22:31:48] <Yaniel> or you can do the instanced stuff as } said, but I don't know if that was an option here
[22:32:00] <Nimmy> think thats overkill for about 10 characters
[22:32:17] <}> anyway
[22:32:24] <xerpi> } that requieres to allocate a vbo of strlen(text) size
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[22:32:50] <xerpi> well strlen * sizeof(...) * ···  * 4
[22:32:55] <}> xerpi, you allocate one big ass VBO once during program start and keep re-fill it if you need different text
[22:32:58] <Yaniel> or you can just reupload the VBO data, while leaving the VAO untouched
[22:33:09] <Nimmy> + it doesnt allow people to run your game without opengl 3.3
[22:33:35] <}> anyway i have a burning desire to show off my musical opengl implementation
[22:33:49] <xerpi> I think I'll stick with the realloc approach, make the vbo bigger when drawing more characters than before
[22:33:51] <Yaniel> musical opengl wat
[22:34:09] <}> its faaaabulous
[22:36:12] <Yaniel> what does that even mean
[22:36:20] <tomaka_> you're playing a note at every OpenGL function called?
[22:36:43] <}> tomaka_, now thats an idea
[22:36:58] <Yaniel> that sounds closer to a drinking game
[22:37:06] <}> very lethal drinking game
[22:37:10] <Shockk> perhaps opengl being used for audio processing or something?
[22:37:53] <}> https://a.pomf.cat/nkcpys.mp4 this is it
[22:37:54] <}> behold!
[22:38:29] <}> Yaniel, and you make a cameo in that gif :-D
[22:38:56] <Yaniel> oh, a spectrum analyzer
[22:39:23] <}> Oh it's more than that, I had to go out of the way to implement my own windowing and smoothing functions to make everything nice and very fast
[22:39:37] <Yaniel> there was a very nice opengl-based visualization for itunes a few versions back
[22:39:40] <}> The fft does a prepass to figure out the optimal algorithm to use later on
[22:39:57] <Yaniel> http://steelskies.com/gaslight/
[22:40:27] <}> Now I just gotta figure out what pretty things I can do with it
[22:40:46] <}> Yaniel, Thanks that looks interesting
[22:40:48] <Yaniel> featuring a glow ARB_fragment_program glow shader
[22:41:02] <Yaniel> (so much glow I had to type that twice)
[22:41:53] <}> ARB_fragment_program? This was before fragment shaders were in core?
[22:43:36] <}> Oh, a nice thing about my integration of audio with opengl is that it doesnt cut off any frequencies, the one on shadertoy cuts off roughly 50% of frequencies
[22:44:15] <}> So if you upload a soundcloud audio file in high frequency and try to display it in shaderoy, you wont see much
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[22:51:41] <Yaniel> oh, looks like the visualizer has been updated to support modern itunes
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[22:57:28] <}> Yaniel, Any idea how those visualizers used to work ~15 years ago? It seems it would take way too much computation power for that era hardware
[22:58:04] <}> You need to demux/decode audio, preprocess it, fft it, convert it to an image, and I guess most of those implementations didnt use a GPU to render it
[22:58:57] <Yaniel> quicktime provides the fft
[22:59:26] <Yaniel> I guess the fft was just updated less frequently and instead interpolated
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[23:00:58] <xerpi> should I consider binding something in OpenGL modifiying the global state so any method that does that shouldn't be const?
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[23:01:19] <xerpi> or const should only apply to modify one's own attributes?
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[23:02:27] <}> xerpi, imho changing opengl state is not nice for const objects
[23:02:34] <}> even if it doesnt change the object
[23:02:47] <xerpi> yeah... that's what I'm thinking
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[23:03:29] <xerpi> I have Font depending on TextureAtlas depending on Texture
[23:03:52] <}> also be careful if you encapsulate opengl state in objects to not have unnecesary state switches
[23:04:09] <xerpi> and from Font I need to call a method of its texture atlas' texture, so I'm thinking about adding a getTexture() method to TextureAtlas returning a const reference
[23:04:36] <}> dont overengineer stuff, implement only what you use and nothing more
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[23:04:47] <}> most likely you will never need a separate font object
[23:05:00] <xerpi> yeah I need to do: font->texture_atlas->texture->method()
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[23:45:20] <nine_milli> yo anyway to easily print a function call stack in a c++ program?
[23:47:32] <Nimmy> http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/backtrace.3.html
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[23:50:55] <xaxxon> ^^ that's what I use .  I have an exception type that I throw that grabs the stack trace at the time.   getting the stack trace is cheap.   Doing the symbol2string lookups are expensive
[23:51:08] <xaxxon> so I only do that the first time I print out the exception, if I print it out at all
[23:51:29] *** ronaldsmazitis <ronaldsmazitis!~quassel@46.109.139.95> has joined ##OpenGL

   September 30, 2016  
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