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[01:47:29] <nine_milli> yo if you dont call glClear and dont do anything will the previous scene persist?
[01:47:55] <Xeek> i suppose that might depend on the driver :-P maybe so maybe not
[01:48:52] <nine_milli> fuk
[01:49:01] <Xeek> eh? what?
[01:49:12] <nine_milli> i was hoping the answer was yes
[01:49:16] <Xeek> "That escalated quickly"
[01:49:22] <Xeek> lol
[01:49:30] <Xeek> you can easily make that happen if you want to
[01:49:51] <Xeek> use an fbo and render to that, you can count on that persisting
[01:50:04] <nine_milli> ok thx
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[02:43:56] <notadeveloper> im an advance opengl programmer
[02:43:58] <notadeveloper> lol
[02:45:47] <Xeek> you shoudl throw in some hashtags with that
[02:46:05] <mudlord> then code me a raytracer on gpu
[02:46:06] <mudlord> now
[02:46:20] <notadeveloper> i not code renderer
[02:46:23] <notadeveloper> i code a drawer
[02:46:34] <Xeek> "im an advanced opengl programmer. lol #genius #opengl #ultimategamedeveloper #bestcoder #experienced #cplusplus"
[02:46:37] <notadeveloper> furniture not ornaments
[02:46:56] <Xeek> see all the comments you're getting?
[02:47:00] <Xeek> wait, this isn't facebook is it.
[02:47:31] <notadeveloper> it says advance opengl
[02:47:46] <notadeveloper> what im reading so i must be an advance opengl
[02:47:55] <notadeveloper> dev
[02:47:58] <notadeveloper> but im not a dev
[02:48:00] <notadeveloper> lol
[02:48:13] <Xeek> #professor #phD
[02:48:21] <notadeveloper> dont need it
[02:48:34] <notadeveloper> ;) i like coding
[02:48:36] <notadeveloper> thats all
[02:48:36] <Xeek> I woudl dthrow a meme in there but this is IRC
[02:48:50] <notadeveloper> sophos
[02:51:56] <notadeveloper> whats a meme?
[02:52:05] <notadeveloper> meme is a name of my friend
[02:52:12] <notadeveloper> lol
[02:52:20] <Xeek> "a humorous image, video, piece of text, etc. that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users."
[02:52:25] <Xeek> poor friend :-(
[02:52:28] <notadeveloper> meme is a pothead
[02:52:31] <Xeek> their whole life is a meme :-(
[02:53:19] <Xeek> notadeveloper: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/365/451/dc8.jpg
[02:53:28] <Xeek> a meme for you not knowing what a meme is
[02:53:30] <notadeveloper> i know it now
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[03:27:11] <Xeek> does 16bitsoft have facebook or twitter?
[03:27:16] <Xeek> woops, up a channel
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[06:22:37] <anli_> Can I use the render mode GL_SELECT to determine which object I am clicking?
[06:23:28] <Stragus> Old GL, that's deprecated/gone/purged
[06:24:39] <anli_> Too bad, would be of great help
[06:24:52] <Stragus> It was hackish and slow
[06:24:59] <Stragus> The best way is typically to compute the nearest intersection between the geometry and a ray coming from the camera toward the cursor
[06:26:46] <anli_> yeah
[06:26:55] <anli_> But I will need to do that for all triangles then
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[06:27:47] <Stragus> You might want some simple space partitionning, simplified geometry, etc. rather than testing all triangles
[06:27:53] <anli_> Hm, maybe I should do it in a draw cycle
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[06:30:38] <notadeveloper> what a productive day
[06:30:48] <notadeveloper> i wish every day is like this
[06:31:11] <notadeveloper> not my regular thursday or friday
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[07:41:14] <anli> Does opengl set x and y to screen coordinates and z to 0 before I multiply with projection and modelview matrix?
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[07:48:42] <Bloodust> what
[07:48:43] <Bloodust> no
[07:49:17] <Bloodust> opengl doesnt do anything to them until your vertex shader ends
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[13:15:21] <Curious> Hey :) is anyone here familiar with clipmaps/clip coordinates?
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[14:46:28] <}> I wonder why theres glDrawRangeElementsBaseVertex, yet no glMultiDrawRangeElements
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[15:19:10] <Murloc992_> Hi guys, what would be a simple way to construct ortographic projections from frustum splits(near and far corners)?
[15:24:32] <exDM69> ortho projection is always pretty simple, isn't it?
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[15:25:18] <exDM69> just scaling factors to scale from your desired coordinate values to -1..1
[15:25:28] <exDM69> and potentially a little bit of translation
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[15:36:12] <Murloc992_> so I would take min/max XYZ values and create a box out of that?
[15:36:24] <exDM69> yeah, kinda
[15:36:28] <Murloc992_> probably would need to center it, too
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[15:37:15] <exDM69> Murloc992_: see here: http://docs.gl/gl3/glOrtho
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[15:40:28] <Murloc992_> well I got my ortho boxes now, was wondering how to orient it according to the camera..
[15:40:42] <Murloc992_> should I multiply every point by the view matrix before taking the min/max coords?
[15:41:28] <Murloc992_> every point of the ortho-to-be box
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[16:03:48] <clb_> does anyone know what is the significance of OpenGL extension headers (glext.h) #define GL_someext_h 1 on extensions?
[16:04:06] <clb_> for example in https://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/api/GLES/glext.h
[16:04:08] <clb_> there's
[16:04:14] <clb_> #ifndef GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias
[16:04:14] <clb_> #define GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias 1
[16:04:14] <clb_> #endif
[16:06:09] <clb_> these "#define xxx 1"s can't be used to check the presence of an extension at compile-time. Does the spec somewhere have a wording on what the intended meaning is of these defines?
[16:06:25] <clb_> looking at https://www.khronos.org/registry/implementers_guide.html but can't find an appropriate passage about that
[16:07:11] <Xeek> GL_someext_h just looks like a include guard, see the _h?
[16:07:58] <Xeek> clb_: have you not googled yet?
[16:08:07] <clb_> Xeek: sorry, the _h was a typo
[16:08:10] * Xeek is tempted too
[16:08:12] <clb_> I'm not referring to the include guards
[16:09:36] <Xeek> EXT_texture_lod_bias is just an extension
[16:09:40] <Xeek> an old one
[16:09:56] <clb_> that was an example
[16:10:08] <clb_> I'm not interested in any specific extension
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[16:10:36] <Xeek> I dont often try to make sense of what's in header files so long as they work when I include them :-\
[16:11:23] <Xeek> its obvious to me what those defines are, but it's so trivial that I dont think I understand what you're asking
[16:13:08] <clb_> why does glext.h have them? What can a conforming cross-platform client GL application deduce of their presence or non-presence?
[16:13:44] <Xeek> clb_: I dont think a client is suppose to deduce anything from them, it's probalby jsut there for gl internally
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[16:14:08] <clb_> this is a GL spec and implementor's question
[16:14:27] <clb_> ok. That is an assumption, do you have a reference to that? It would be very helpful
[16:17:22] <Xeek> I've used extensions but I've never cared to pick apart the actual headers as it has never been useful to me to do so. I'll wish you luck.
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[16:19:04] <clb_> thanks
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[18:14:45] <}> if i have a vbo/ibo and set up the vertex array format for it, is it safe to later add more things to the vbo/ibo? (calling glBufferData again) Basically in some situations I want to add more meshes to an existing vbo and keep calling glMultiDrawElementsBaseVertex
[18:15:06] <}> or do I need to delete the vao and re-create it again?
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[18:20:46] <ratchetfreak> it's safe though it won't necessarily be the fastest
[18:20:51] <ratchetfreak> and the vao will remain valid
[18:23:08] <notadeveloper> hey ratchetfreak
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[18:25:00] <}> ratchetfreak, what did you mean with it won't necessarily be the fastest?
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[18:32:59] <}> I was also wondering if it would be more efficient to use something like uniform bool pass1; with an if (pass1) { pass1(); } else { pass2(); } in a shader than having two shaders and switching between them
[18:34:07] <}> but i don't know if GLSL would be smart enough to run the if check only once, or it will run it for every fragment
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[18:49:04] <simias> heya
[18:49:54] <simias> if I use persistent buffer mapping, as a rule of thumb on the desktop is it better to use GL_COHERENT_BIT or use explicit barriers?
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[19:57:57] <Curious_> } it would not be efficient to use a uniform for if (pass1), use #ifdef PASS_1 instead
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[19:59:03] <Curious_> This requires to compile the shader twice ofc for different defines which is the same as writing 2 shaders which differ depending on the pass
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[20:12:14] <Codex_> i should probably do some skeletal animations :)
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[20:12:43] <Codex_> it's like significant gap in my animation capabilities..
[20:13:13] <}> Curious_, thanks, I guess I'll stick with multiple shaders
[20:13:29] <}> I saw that you can use shader subroutines with 4.x but I'm targeting 3.3 for now
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[20:14:50] <Curious_> } Thanks for mentioning this, first time I hear about it :) sounds very interesting since I am using 4.3+ right now
[20:15:27] <}> Curious_, https://www.opengl.org/wiki/Shader_Subroutine
[20:15:34] <Curious_> Ya got it :)
[20:15:39] <Stragus> Don't use shader subroutines, ever
[20:15:48] <Curious_> Why Stragus?
[20:15:53] <Stragus> You pay a significant performance cost for no reason. Just use multiple shaders
[20:16:24] <}> Hmm, you would think the driver would be smart enough to remove overhead for subroutines compared to multiple shaders
[20:16:51] <qptain_Nemo> am i correct in the assumption that generally the best way to move objects is by adjusting the vertices in the vertex shader?
[20:16:54] <dawik> Codex_: ive been struggling with kinni ng for maybe 2 months efficient time, that stuff is by no means trivial imo
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[20:17:08] <dawik> skinning*
[20:17:21] <Curious_> Stragus: Oh, ok. Good to know. I prefer performance
[20:17:52] <Codex_> dawik: sure, i estimate my plans to take 2 more weeks or so
[20:18:17] <Codex_> dawik: but I'm aiming for simple stuff like attaching vertices to a bone etc
[20:18:54] <dawik> good bplan¨
[20:19:12] <dawik> typing this on an airplane ^^
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[20:20:20] <Codex_> I still have shader missing, and I haven't ensured that the new attribute is actually working :-)
[20:21:03] <dawik> :)
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[20:26:27] <}> Oh, I was also wondering what the recommended source on portal rendering is? There's a lot on the web, but the quality of articles seems to vary a lot
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[20:28:56] <Codex_> dawik: does this result in good skeletal anim stuff: http://codepad.org/WcDfovaZ
[20:29:58] <Codex_> hmm, it might not work right :(
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[20:32:57] <noizex> that code doesn't look like it would work ;)
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[20:33:08] <Codex_> why?
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[20:33:21] <Codex_> it had minor vec3->vec4 problem
[20:33:29] <noizex> is it for skeletal animation?
[20:33:32] <Codex_> yup
[20:33:39] <Codex_> just wrote it 2 minutes ago
[20:33:44] <Codex_> no testing at all
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[20:34:38] <noizex> you retrieve bone matrix (just one) then some vec3 (called bone pos??) then multiply it by the matrix?
[20:35:20] <noizex> you usually want to add influence from up to 4 bones
[20:35:27] <noizex> multiplying them by each bones weight for a given vertex
[20:35:29] <Codex_> pos is the paramter to the function, which is offset from the bone position to the current vertex
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[20:38:00] <Codex_> oh, I only have one bone per vertex.
[20:38:19] <noizex> and 100% influence
[20:38:28] <Codex_> yup
[20:38:33] <noizex> well
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[20:38:42] <noizex> the usual way is to transform vertex to joint space
[20:38:47] <noizex> make the correct rotation/translation
[20:38:52] <noizex> then transoform it back
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[20:39:01] <noizex> that's what the bone matrix is about
[20:39:04] <Yaniel> hehe, joint space
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[20:39:18] <noizex> plus you probably want to have several weights per vertex, not just one
[20:39:21] <decimad> it's no colourspace, even if it sounds that way
[20:39:32] <Codex_> I'm using bone matrix for just rotating the bone from it's endpoint
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[20:39:55] <noizex> Yaniel: you bad boy, you!
[20:40:02] <noizex> I prefer joint instead of bone
[20:40:07] <noizex> (how does it sound..)
[20:40:12] <noizex> who doesn't right?
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[20:41:35] <Codex_> i'll try to implement simple version first
[20:41:47] <Codex_> add more complexity later
[20:41:52] <noizex> yeah, makes sense
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[20:42:13] <noizex> though it will be whole different approach compared to what you have now
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[20:43:06] <Codex_> well, I only see problems of this approach once I have working implementation :-)
[20:43:30] <Murloc992> how do I orient calculated orthographic projections according to the camera?
[20:43:39] <Murloc992> do I just multiply the corners by inversed view projection?
[20:43:45] <Murloc992> view matrix*
[20:43:56] <Murloc992> for CSM
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[20:45:13] <Codex_> but I have a feeling this skeletal anim stuff is not going to work in emscripten, because of webgl uniform variable limit :-)
[20:45:37] <Codex_> I bet it considers mat4 bones[50] as 50 separate variables :)
[20:46:05] <}> does webgl have uniform buffer objects?
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[20:46:16] <}> you could use that then
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[20:53:14] <Stragus> Codex_: Uniforms are for coherent access, not different shader invocations indexing different values
[20:53:20] <Stragus> Use a buffer texture or such
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[22:31:38] <btipling_> so quiet in here today
[22:31:50] <Xeek> yup'
[22:32:15] <btipling_> I'm reading up on math, so I can do the camera movement stuff
[22:32:20] <btipling_> still hasn't clicked for me
[22:32:29] <btipling_> nearly there
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[22:33:14] <btipling_> after that I want to learn ray casting and collision detection so I can highlight an object I'm looking at
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[22:33:21] <btipling_> I think I understand that math already
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[22:34:35] <btipling_> someone I know recommended this book too
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[22:34:41] <btipling_> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0201544121/
[22:34:49] <btipling_> no electronic version though
[22:34:50] <btipling_> :<
[22:35:18] <btipling_> not legally anyway
[22:35:25] <btipling_> :(
[22:35:32] *** huhlig <huhlig!sid17687@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iimtfpckumuwvkdp> has joined ##OpenGL
[22:36:22] <btipling_> so I bought the hard cover
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[23:04:02] <Curious_> This book costs $0.01...
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[23:09:05] <Curious_> btipling_ Get https://www.amazon.com/Ray-Tracing-Weekend-Minibooks-Book-ebook/dp/B01B5AODD8
[23:09:28] <btipling_> yeah I spent almost nothing on a hardcover book that once sold for $100+
[23:09:30] <Curious_> Lots of fun.
[23:09:37] <btipling_> nice
[23:09:53] <btipling_> I bought it Curious_ :)
[23:09:59] <Curious_> Wrote a CPU and GPU raytracer myself. Good exercise
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[23:10:15] <btipling_> yeah, this will be cpu since I want to know at cpu time what object I'm looking at
[23:10:23] <btipling_> it's not just decorative
[23:10:39] <btipling_> I want to modify the the currently selected object
[23:10:41] <Curious_> I love how raytraced images are so close to reality
[23:10:49] <btipling_> yeah
[23:10:56] <btipling_> shader toy is all ray tracing isn't it?
[23:11:01] <btipling_> you only get a fragment shader
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[23:11:05] <btipling_> and it runs for every pixel
[23:11:09] <btipling_> so it's all ray tracing iirc
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[23:11:30] <Curious_> Yeah, they do a lot of raytracing
[23:12:24] <dahlia> here's one of my few simple minded attempts to do raytracing http://wwweb3d.net:8099/screenshots/csharpRaytracer06.jpg
[23:12:45] <Curious_> Nice :)
[23:12:49] <Codex_> dahlia: how many fps?
[23:12:53] <btipling_> https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ld3Gz2
[23:12:59] <btipling_> that one is amazing
[23:13:17] <dahlia> Curious_: you mean how many spf?
[23:13:25] <btipling_> dahlia that's awesome
[23:13:28] <dahlia> http://wwweb3d.net:8099/screenshots//csharpRaytracerInterpolatedNormals.jpg
[23:13:41] <btipling_> dahlia the whole scene is ray tracing?
[23:13:47] <dahlia> ya
[23:13:58] <btipling_> dahlia do you have a youtube?
[23:14:07] <dahlia> not with any raytracing
[23:14:29] <Curious_> GPU raytracing can be done in realtime btw. and produce realistic images. Check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT6MkCeP7Y
[23:14:40] <dahlia> ya Ive done spheres on gpu
[23:14:57] <dahlia> lots of examples on shadertoy
[23:15:54] <Curious_> I mean large scenes with arbitrary geometry, not just tiny examples with simple geometry
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[23:16:57] <dahlia> ya spheres are a lot easier than trimesh
[23:17:08] <Curious_> Won't be used in games for the next decade at least though because of noise
[23:17:19] <dahlia> spheres, planes, boxes... all pretty easy
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[23:18:34] <dahlia> anyway the raytracing code for those pics is c# so not a speed demon
[23:18:48] <dahlia> was more just me learning the concept
[23:19:06] <btipling_> dahlia do you have a youtube with your graphics work?
[23:19:27] <dahlia> with some
[23:19:28] <btipling_> Curious_ that's an amazing video
[23:20:33] <dahlia> btipling_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNYxylL2A1k
[23:20:47] <btipling_> nice
[23:20:51] <btipling_> subscribed
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[23:22:59] <btipling_> dahlia where did you get the animations from for the people?
[23:23:19] <btipling_> did you write the animation parts yourself? does that involve like a ticker?
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[23:23:41] <foobaz> hell, CPU raytracing can be done in realtime, and has been since the '90s
[23:24:12] <btipling_> wouldn't some of it have to be cpu
[23:24:42] <foobaz> i said cpu
[23:24:51] <dahlia> btipling_: Ive collected a lot of them over the years. I wrote the animation code, it's part javascript and part glsl. It's also doing almost 300 mesh morphs per character in real time along with the skeleton animations, in glsl
[23:25:01] <Curious_> If you need some quality animations and models for free check out: https://www.mixamo.com/
[23:26:40] <btipling_> is the trend toward raytracing instead of vertices?
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[23:28:00] <Curious_> Like I said before. Not expecting it to replace current standard (triangle rasterization) for at least the next decade
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[23:30:46] <btipling_> but someday vertices will be gone and it will all be raytracing?
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[23:31:36] <Stragus> Who said raytracing doesn't use vertices?
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[23:32:35] <notadeveloper> does anyone know a compatibility chart for 3+ server-side gl capabilities?
[23:32:51] <Curious_> I guess he is referring to triangle rasterization - and I do believe that raytracing will be the standard in the far, far future
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[23:33:15] <dahlia> what's wrong with vertices anyway? There's some pretty impressive looking stuff out there that use them
[23:33:15] <btipling_> Stragus shadertoy doesn't
[23:33:30] <btipling_> you ray trace for every pixel
[23:33:39] <Stragus> Shadertoy is a toy
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[23:33:50] <btipling_> well the fragment shader runs against every point pixel or whatever
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[23:34:36] <derhass> btipling_: that is totally orthogonal to how your objects are described
[23:34:46] <btipling_> ah
[23:34:55] <Curious_> We could make some calculations on how far "far" really is based on hardware improvements/year and algorithm improvements/year but sometimes unpredictable things like quantum computing might change these predictions
[23:35:00] <btipling_> I don't know much about raytracing in practice yet
[23:35:07] <btipling_> just have looked at some of the math
[23:35:31] <derhass> notadeveloper: what are server-side gl capabilities?
[23:35:34] <dahlia> I dont know much either, just a few of the concepts
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[23:35:45] <Curious_> Well more likely cloud computing will be used for AAA games with raytracers.
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[23:36:00] <notadeveloper> your wifes the server that likes sockets
[23:36:04] <notadeveloper> lol jk
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[23:36:42] * derhass throws a bunch of JK flip flops at notadeveloper
[23:37:06] <Curious_> Oh did anyone here see Crackdown 3 technology? The physics simulation on the cloud is really impressive
[23:37:08] <btipling_> derhass I think maybe he means stuff like OnLive
[23:37:21] <Curious_> Cloud Computing is the future
[23:37:28] <dahlia> didnt OnLive die?
[23:37:31] <btipling_> yes
[23:37:36] <derhass> what is onlive?
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[23:37:56] <btipling_> a cloud gaming service that sent frames from their servers to your tablet
[23:38:00] <btipling_> and your inputs back to the server
[23:38:10] <btipling_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive
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[23:38:19] <btipling_> tablet phone whatever
[23:38:25] <dahlia> it rendered in the cloud and streamed the video
[23:38:26] <Stragus> And people complain about a 2-3 frames latency due to GPU buffering...
[23:38:29] <btipling_> yes
[23:38:31] <derhass> btipling_: I have neither :)
[23:39:01] <btipling_> I like being able to carry multiple giant math textbooks on my tablet
[23:39:03] <dahlia> well some gamers get upset at 100ms ping
[23:39:06] <btipling_> it's pretty convenient
[23:39:25] <Curious_> 100ms is unacceptable in many realtime action games
[23:39:26] <btipling_> it weighs nothing and I can easily switch between books to cross reference stuff
[23:39:39] <btipling_> OnLive's technology worked, they just ran out of money iirc
[23:40:42] <Stragus> And that 100ms ping isn't a frame rendering delay, you can still look around "instantly"
[23:40:44] <derhass> well, whatever. I don't see how notadeveloper's question would be related to that
[23:40:56] <btipling_> yeah maybe I misunderstood
[23:40:58] <dahlia> so with onlive, you have ping between user and rendering service, then ping between rendering service and game server, then add in rendering time
[23:41:04] <dahlia> and codecs and all
[23:41:08] <dahlia> so moar loag
[23:41:11] <dahlia> *lag
[23:41:25] <dahlia> so 100ms becomes 200ms
[23:41:27] <dahlia> or 500
[23:41:45] <btipling_> it doesn't seem appealing to me
[23:41:46] <Curious_> Indeed dahlia. This is currently a big problem
[23:41:51] <btipling_> I like having a pc I can do things with
[23:42:47] <Curious_> I've seen a friend stream from his computer to another device though (smartphone) and it seemed to work perfectly fine. Don't remember how the new streaming service of nvidia is called
[23:43:11] <Stragus> Local area network latency might be fine
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[23:43:15] <btipling_> steam lets you stream to your tv or other computer
[23:43:20] <btipling_> but it's all on your local network
[23:43:25] <btipling_> iirc
[23:43:47] <dahlia> ya my local lan seldom sees 1ms ping
[23:43:54] <Curious_> Not just local network
[23:43:54] <btipling_> I will probably play civ 6 that way
[23:43:58] <btipling_> since my laptop is a macbook
[23:44:05] <derhass> lol, civ6
[23:44:06] <btipling_> and I prefer playing civ on my laptop
[23:44:15] <btipling_> what's wrong with civ 6
[23:44:15] <derhass> that one is _very_ critical to latency
[23:44:27] <Curious_> You do need a fast network ofc
[23:44:29] <btipling_> it's turn based
[23:44:48] <btipling_> I have gigabit wifi I think
[23:44:50] <Curious_> Turn based games are perfect for this ^^
[23:44:52] <btipling_> I should be fine
[23:44:58] <btipling_> civ 6 is turn based
[23:45:18] <Curious_> I don't think anyone would complain about 100ms latency in a chess game
[23:45:41] <btipling_> I dunno I will try it and if it sucks just play it sitting at my pc
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   September 13, 2016  
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