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[01:27:41] <sohail> I have a OpenGL regression test where I render something to the screen and then do glReadPixels on it, do a RMSE calculation to determine if the image is different
[01:27:55] <sohail> on vista**
[01:28:40] <sohail> now, when the build server's screen saver or monitor power saving mod ecome on (not sure if either is the cause actually), rendering multiple models in the same process is now giivng the same output from glReadPixels
[01:28:49] <sohail> i.e., the first is the same as the second is the same as the third
[01:28:53] <sohail> I cannot figure out why
[01:29:10] <sohail> If I log back into the machine and run the tests, they pass just fine
[01:29:11] <sohail> so... wtf
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[01:30:11] <sohail> the card is ATI Radeon 3600 I believe
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[01:31:17] <MatthiasM> sohail: if your GL window is hidden then rendering to front or back buffer is undefined
[01:31:33] <MatthiasM> as this falls under the pixel ownership test
[01:32:41] <sohail> MatthiasM, I see, so it can count as being hidden eh?
[01:32:52] <sohail> yeah that makes sense
[01:33:06] <MatthiasM> render using a FBO to bypass this issue
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[01:33:35] <sohail> hm
[01:33:42] <sohail> are FBOs supported commonly?
[01:33:55] <sohail> I remember suggesting this a while back and it was said not to use them because htey were not well supported
[01:33:56] <MatthiasM> check the extension
[01:34:20] <MatthiasM> depends on your target audience
[01:34:53] <sohail> in this specific case, it is a demo application
[01:35:07] <sohail> people already have a difficult enough time deciphering it :-)
[01:35:09] <MatthiasM> well - my demo app requires GLSL and FBO :)
[01:35:16] <sohail> haha
[01:36:02] <MatthiasM> but you have an ATI - and using GL on ATI is always fun :)
[01:37:19] <sohail> yep
[01:37:46] <sohail> and this is one reason I hope we can eventually put in a software renderer by default
[01:37:54] <sohail> accuracy is important
[01:38:08] <MatthiasM> use Povray :P
[01:38:34] <sohail> well I don't want to get *fired* from this contract, I do like it
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[01:45:16] <RTFM_FTW> using GL on ATI *is* definitely fun... and much more stable than using GL on Nvidia AFAIC :P
[01:45:25] <RTFM_FTW> heh at least for the platform I care about :P
[01:45:37] <MatthiasM> but not on the other platforms :)
[01:45:58] <RTFM_FTW> no I've had similar issues on those "other platforms"
[01:46:09] <RTFM_FTW> when it comes to GL
[01:46:33] <RTFM_FTW> in any case if I was doing Windows development I wouldn't be wasting my time w/ GL in the first place :P
[01:46:41] <RTFM_FTW> D3D FTW over there
[01:46:42] <RTFM_FTW> heh
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[01:47:20] <udoprog1> yay... another one cheers for proprietary graphics libraries
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[01:48:14] <RTFM_FTW> ugh not this again
[01:48:45] <MatthiasM> well - somehow on WinXP - OpenGL performs better then D3D - esp when doing alt-TAB :)
[01:48:59] <RTFM_FTW> LOL you wish
[01:49:02] <innnit> anyone used/using QGLViewer?
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[01:53:19] <udoprog> i bet all those nice undocumented system calls dx uses might give them abit of a heads up : P
[01:56:38] <udoprog> i was wondering if GLfloat is the same on all platforms, that is, if i pack it into binary format, write it to a file, reads it again (somewhere else) am i bound to get the same value? - and if so, how is that accomplished?
[01:57:34] <MatthiasM> assuming that your system uses standard IEEE754 float point format, and that you account for endian issues it should work
[01:59:45] <udoprog> MatthiasM: so it is not specified if the GLfloat should be a little or big endian?
[02:00:23] <MatthiasM> it's a data type - there is no point in specifying endianess for a primitive data type
[02:00:39] <MatthiasM> endianess only matters when you serialize it into a byte stream
[02:01:12] <udoprog> yeah, which is what i'm about to do : P guess ive gotta find a cross platform serializer/deserializer then...
[02:01:57] <udoprog> or just go with the flow until there are problems, thanks MatthiasM
[02:04:24] <fusi> if i may add my 2p
[02:04:45] <fusi> i beleive the endianness of the value is specific to the platform, thus changable
[02:05:04] <fusi> also i bleive you can determine the endianness of a platform with some bitwise stuff
[02:05:39] <fusi> so you jut check and flick the switch on ur serialiser to teh right setting
[02:05:55] <fusi> i may be babbling nonsense i only read a few lines up :p
[02:06:06] <MatthiasM> if you use C then you can check preprocessor directives, Java has a ByteOrder class, other languages should have something similar
[02:06:23] <fusi> boost <3
[02:07:35] <fusi> any luck with those textures MatthiasM ?
[02:07:44] <MatthiasM> not tried yet
[02:07:50] <MatthiasM> working on other things :)
[02:07:54] <fusi>  (:
[02:08:10] <RTFM_FTW> GLint v = 1; (*(char*)&v) ? ...BIG_ENDIAN... : ...LITTLE_ENDIAN... ;
[02:08:14] <RTFM_FTW> there you go
[02:08:17] <MatthiasM> I just started a build - I can show you a demo in 1 min :)
[02:08:32] <fusi> give that man a cookie
[02:08:51] <fusi> MatthiasM: im actually goin right now
[02:08:52] <MatthiasM> Mercurial + Hudson is really great :)
[02:08:55] <fusi>  cya tomoz tho
[02:08:58] <fusi> gtg o/
[02:09:14] <RTFM_FTW> of course any platform targeting multiple CPU types (and little / big endian) will have compile time defines to do this for you
[02:09:31] <MatthiasM> fusi: http://twl.l33tlabs.org/
[02:10:22] <RTFM_FTW> and anyone using the snippet above would be advised to reverse the ...BIG_ENDIAN... and ...LITTLE_ENDIAN... :P
[02:10:26] <RTFM_FTW> heh
[02:10:45] <MatthiasM> RTFM_FTW: where is then fun then :P
[02:11:17] <RTFM_FTW> LOL indeed
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[02:14:00] <udoprog> hm. i could store a reference number in the top of my file which i could check endianness from?
[02:14:31] <MatthiasM> udoprog: that's a common partice - or just choose a fixed endianess and stay with it
[02:14:49] <RTFM_FTW> or you could just use the compile time #defines supported by your platform
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[02:15:20] <MatthiasM> using a fixed endianess - like little endian - allows you to have only one code in your binary to load the data
[02:15:32] <RTFM_FTW> any platform worth targeting is likely to have something like #if __BIG_ENDIAN__ ... #else ... #endif available
[02:15:47] <MatthiasM> otherwise you have to have both loaders and check on load which format the file has
[02:16:10] <udoprog> so i should choose my target platform, and on the other do conversion when reading from/writing to the file?
[02:16:18] <udoprog> target *endian
[02:16:32] <MatthiasM> yes
[02:16:41] <RTFM_FTW> multi-arch "fat" files are common on certain platforms
[02:16:47] <RTFM_FTW> Apple being one such example
[02:17:08] <MatthiasM> how is that related to data files ?
[02:18:32] <RTFM_FTW> heh its related to what I said earlier concerning preprocesser defines
[02:19:11] <udoprog> so does GLfloat have a fixed size? or do i have to worry about that aswell?
[02:19:21] <RTFM_FTW> being that one could use those defines to effectively stitch multiple arches together into a single binary blob containing their application code
[02:19:25] <MatthiasM> not really - if you have source code which can handle both endians - it doesn't matter if you compile it into one binary or several
[02:20:26] <udoprog> ... by handling i meant using preprocessor defines?
[02:20:28] <RTFM_FTW> carefully note what I just wrote before responding... I wasn't referring to a runtime check here
[02:20:29] <MatthiasM> udoprog: size of float point numbers is also implementation dependant - but nearly all systems today use IEEE754 which has 32 bit floats and 64 bit doubles
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[02:21:39] <MatthiasM> udoprog: yes - use preprocessor defines - and best define a few helper methods - like getInt, getFloat etc - which are endian dependant - so that you don't have #ifdef in your loader code
[02:22:36] <udoprog> sigh, should make thos inline aswell. so you don't think i should check size with sizeof to determine that the floats really are 32 bits long?
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[02:23:30] <MatthiasM> you can check the size with some preprocessor tricks like this "static int testSizeOfFloatArray[sizeof(GLfloat) == 4 ? 1 : -1];"
[02:23:31] <RTFM_FTW> sizeof(GLfloat) is a free operation
[02:24:00] <RTFM_FTW> always use sizeof
[02:24:12] <RTFM_FTW> as assumption is the mother of all fuckups :P
[02:24:19] <MatthiasM> the above code will cause a compiler error if the size doesn't match
[02:24:38] <udoprog> yes, determined during compilation as a size_t which should always be one byte each right?
[02:25:04] <MatthiasM> well - C doesn't require that a char is 8 bit
[02:25:17] <udoprog> but size_t isn't a char
[02:25:39] <udoprog> it's the size in bytes right?
[02:26:37] <MatthiasM> well - standard comform crossplatform is really ugly in C - but most systems have sizeof(char) == 1, char holds 8 bit, sizeof(int) >= 4, etc
[02:26:42] <udoprog> shit, it returns the size in chars...
[02:26:50] <MatthiasM> yep
[02:27:10] <MatthiasM> if you would run it on some older system with 6 bit bytes ...
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[02:28:05] <MatthiasM> you could try uint8_t from inttypes.h
[02:28:37] <udoprog> so if sizeof(uint32_t) == sizeof(GLfloat)?
[02:28:43] <MatthiasM> yes
[02:28:56] <udoprog> weeee... :)
[02:29:40] <udoprog> thanks : P sleeptime
[02:30:16] <sohail> <RTFM_FTW> in any case if I was doing Windows development I wouldn't be wasting my time w/ GL in the first place :P
[02:30:17] <sohail> <RTFM_FTW> D3D FTW over there
[02:30:26] <sohail> sure, if it was Windows only
[02:30:29] <sohail> oh wait a minute, it is
[02:30:31] <sohail> ;-)
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[02:31:15] <udoprog> btw, when is the next version of  the opengl spec scheduled?
[02:32:41] <MatthiasM> it's on the site
[02:35:55] <RTFM_FTW> huh?
[02:36:02] <RTFM_FTW> the next version isn't on the site yet
[02:36:17] <RTFM_FTW> the next version being *after* GL 3 that is
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[03:17:42] <Rangar> I've found 2500 FREE mocap BVH files at http://sites.google.com/a/cgspeed.com/cgspeed/motion-capture/cmu-bvh-conversion if anyone is interested :)
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[03:51:38] <jli> I don't quite understand what the difference between float and GLfloat is
[03:51:46] <jli> (and int, GLint, etc.)
[03:51:51] <kbotnen> any tip on "developing" own file format for loading 3d geometry into openGL? right now Im loading from .obj files, but that takes forever compared to what it should. So I wonder how I should fix such a problem.
[03:51:59] <HuntsMan> jli: probably none
[03:52:05] <jli> okay, neat.
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[03:52:58] <kbotnen> I guess I have to parse / load the obj and then put it out as some other format, but what should that be? is there any special consideration I have to take? andn what is a format that openGL reads fast?
[03:56:20] <mlucassmith> you could store it how you're going to give it to ogl as a VBO
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[04:00:55] <kbotnen> hmm... Ill read on VBO to see what it is. Can I store it to disk or memory only?
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[04:17:18] <mlucassmith> well it's just a big blob of data you give to opengl and you tell opengl how to interpret it, so yah, you can store it on disk
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[04:22:12] <jli> why's selection/picking bad, now? expensive?
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[04:29:52] <jli> San Felasco?
[04:29:59] <jli> er, excuse me.
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   January 27, 2009  
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