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[02:02:59] <DragonRift> has anyone here used speedtree before?
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[02:09:13] <rooly> does anyone in here have experience with speedtree?
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[02:12:31] <Ragnarok_> will a nVidia 8800GT have problems supporting OGL3?
[02:12:36] <Ragnarok_> when its release
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[02:14:00] <rooly> if ogl3 is not backwards compatible, possibly
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[02:16:26] <Ragnarok> damn
[02:17:07] <DragonRift> hes back
[02:17:12] <DragonRift> he will be ehre soon
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[02:30:24] <obmij_> Do I need to enable GL_BLEND for passing alpha values through gl_FragColor ?
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[02:43:46] <Ragnarok> is this good?
[02:43:48] <Ragnarok> http://www.directron.com/512p3n802ar.html
[02:48:25] <obmij_> you know Ragnarok
[02:48:33] <Ragnarok> =)
[02:48:33] <obmij_> let me give you a great advice
[02:48:44] <obmij_> you haven't baught it yet have you?
[02:48:49] <obmij_> bought*
[02:48:51] <Ragnarok> iono i've heard that 9800 sucks
[02:48:56] <obmij_> alright hold
[02:48:58] <Ragnarok> i get it tomorrow
[02:49:03] <obmij_> I have the 8800 GTX
[02:49:05] <obmij_> but hold
[02:49:07] <Ragnarok> okies
[02:49:12] <obmij_> you haven't spent money have you?
[02:49:58] <Ragnarok> nope not a penny yet
[02:50:03] <obmij_> ok
[02:50:35] <obmij_> give me 1 moment
[02:51:38] <Ragnarok> the only thing that confuses me one site offers the GT, GTS, GTX but this other site doesn't carry the GTS and GTX
[02:51:45] <obmij_> give me a moment
[02:51:50] <Ragnarok> ok
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[02:53:53] <obmij_> If I was you
[02:53:56] <obmij_> I'd save them money
[02:53:58] <obmij_> for
[02:55:18] <obmij_> ATI HD 3870 X2
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[02:55:33] <obmij_> this is coming from a man who spend $680 CAD for a eVga nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX
[02:55:57] <obmij_> I've virtually seen nVidia butchered everytime ATI released something after their releases
[02:56:06] <DragonRift> I use sli 8800 GTS
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[02:56:30] <obmij_> I was up in heaven after spending that money on my 8800 GTX, not realizing that HD 9200 XT would smoke it
[02:56:37] <obmij_> then the 9800 GX2 came out
[02:56:44] <DragonRift> and it beats a ati when using my game engine
[02:56:44] <DragonRift> :)
[02:56:46] <obmij_> and I was planning on getting it again
[02:57:05] <Ragnarok> i've had nothing but bad experience with ATI
[02:57:07] <obmij_> knowing that I would have to buy my current thing
[02:57:09] <obmij_> and put $100 on top
[02:57:14] <obmij_> Then what happens?
[02:57:23] <obmij_> 3870 X2 comes out,... again cheap
[02:57:25] <obmij_> and FASTER
[02:57:41] <DragonRift> u could not pay me to use ati
[02:57:41] <DragonRift> :/
[02:57:43] <obmij_> and I have nothing but curse words for all the places that nVidia fucked up on keeping OpenGL standards
[02:57:45] <Ragnarok> obmij_, but remember my motherboard doesn't support PCI-e 2.0
[02:57:57] <obmij_> My mobo supports PCI-e 2.0
[02:58:19] <obmij_> Ragnarok, one good suggestion, upgrade BOTH your mobo AND your power supply
[02:58:21] <obmij_> for high end cards
[02:58:29] <obmij_> I have a Asus p5kse and a 700 watt power supply
[02:58:44] <Ragnarok> obmij_, i don't have much for a mobo to support PCI-e 2
[02:58:46] <obmij_> and yeah, it IS needed
[02:58:52] <obmij_> these things suck power like a mother f****er
[02:58:57] <obmij_> and heat up your room like a oven
[02:59:28] <obmij_> but honestly
[02:59:35] <obmij_> I wish I had saved up for a 3870
[03:00:01] <obmij_> it smacks down 9800 GX2 on the latest 3DMark benchmarking software
[03:00:12] <obmij_> like a little b***h
[03:00:34] <obmij_> I simply lost my nVidia fanboyism
[03:00:50] <obmij_> also I'm not a big fan of 'amd' btw
[03:01:10] <obmij_> eventhough my friends work over there
[03:01:12] <obmij_> 2 of them
[03:01:52] <obmij_> but if you're not in a rush, wait for HD 4xxx series
[03:01:54] <obmij_> (r700)
[03:02:20] <Ragnarok> what motherboard brand names are good?
[03:02:30] <obmij_> I got a Asus p5kse, I'm happy with it
[03:02:35] <obmij_> just saying
[03:02:43] <Ragnarok> its not available at this store
[03:02:53] <obmij_> well ask the store guy ;)
[03:03:01] <obmij_> I usually trust them :D
[03:03:06] <Ragnarok> im on the website
[03:03:08] <obmij_> anyway, I gotta head to buy some stuff
[03:03:12] <obmij_> oh ok
[03:03:19] <obmij_> anyway, good luck with the upgrade
[03:03:23] <Ragnarok> thank you
[03:03:28] <obmij_> no prob
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[03:30:04] <obmij_> ok back!
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[03:37:54] <Ragnarok> obmij_, wb
[03:38:11] <Ragnarok> this benchmark shows that the hd 3870 X2 sucks
[03:38:22] <obmij_> which one?
[03:38:39] <obmij_> I actually saw the one on the 3DMark website
[03:38:47] <obmij_> interestingly enough, I can't find it anymore
[03:39:30] <obmij_> show me the benchmark though, I'm interested in all the information gathered so far
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[03:41:29] <obmij_> compared to what by the way? the 9800 GX2?
[03:41:34] <Ragnarok> http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ3NSwyLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
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[03:48:08] <obmij_> interesting
[03:52:01] <obmij_> keep in mind, it's always hard to say if there's no 'bias by financial backing' or plain ol' fanboyism squeezed in
[03:52:35] <obmij_> Either way I'm gonna see if I can find the 3DMark benchmarks... not that I trust them 100% either
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[03:54:08] <Ragnarok> haha
[03:54:27] <Ragnarok> so i can stick a pci-e 2.0 9800 in a pci-e x16 slot?
[03:54:58] <obmij_> http://www.legitreviews.com/article/656/8/
[03:55:53] <obmij_> yeah there's the compatibility
[03:56:11] <obmij_> but, you always want the best output you can get, don't you? ;_
[03:56:13] <obmij_> ;)
[03:56:18] <Ragnarok> so i can buy a 9800 :D
[03:56:26] <obmij_> Hmm, are you *sure*?
[03:56:28] <Ragnarok> ill be fucking pissed if its not
[03:56:33] <obmij_> look at those 3dmark benchmarks
[03:56:48] <Ragnarok> yeah it doesn't show nothing against the 9800 only the 8800
[03:56:55] <obmij_> Hmm that's true
[03:57:02] <obmij_> buy a Gx2 :D
[03:57:06] <obmij_> for the hell of it
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[03:57:14] <obmij_> if you're grabbing 9800, grab gx2! :D
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[03:57:27] <obmij_> hey, I work hard too but ...
[03:57:29] <bfrog> internally in graphics memory images are stored in bgra order?
[03:57:38] <bfrog> not in rgba?
[03:57:44] <obmij_> bfrog, if it is little endian yeah
[03:57:56] <obmij_> which I'm betting it is
[03:58:00] <bfrog> it is
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[03:58:07] <obmij_> then yes!
[03:58:15] <obmij_> guess what? the same is about your PC as well
[03:58:41] <obmij_> if you store the string "hello" somewhere in memory chances are it's like '\0'olleh
[03:59:25] <bfrog> oh right... thats right, memory pointer decrements in x86 if I remember correctly no?
[03:59:27] <obmij_> '\0' for nul termination
[03:59:41] <bfrog> or like whatever, edp. I can't remember
[03:59:49] <bfrog> several years since I took the asm class...
[03:59:54] <obmij_> :)
[03:59:54] <bfrog> I should review that stuff
[04:00:33] <obmij_> how many years?
[04:00:43] <bfrog> 4 now
[04:00:49] <obmij_> ok
[04:00:51] <bfrog> 4 and then some probably
[04:00:56] <obmij_> there's a bunch of new x86 instructions etc.
[04:01:00] <obmij_> check out i686
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[04:02:28] <bfrog> question for gurus... say I want to pack in the intensity of 4 horizontal pixels in a bgra image such that b is the intensity of the first pixel, g is the intensity of the second pixel, etc
[04:02:39] <bfrog> the resulting image would be 1/4 the width of the original no?
[04:02:41] <Ragnarok> i wanna learn assembly :(
[04:03:45] <obmij_> yeah
[04:03:56] <bfrog> ok, well opengl is doing something funny then
[04:04:08] <obmij_> opengl, aint doing anything funny ;D
[04:04:20] <obmij_> first things first, does you card support RGBA formats? :)
[04:04:25] <bfrog> yes
[04:04:30] <obmij_> then look around for bugs
[04:04:38] <obmij_> I've done this long ago
[04:04:43] <obmij_> for cube maps
[04:04:53] <obmij_> I had done this long ago... in fact
[04:05:10] <bfrog> http://dev.chicagoedt.org/phobos/file/58d4a1a63975/src/libs/phobosdisparity/adaptivedp.cpp
[04:05:12] <bfrog> look at compute skews
[04:05:25] <obmij_> oowww man
[04:05:38] <obmij_> I really ... gotta work on my own thing now :D
[04:05:48] <obmij_> that's huge...
[04:06:01] <bfrog> :-(
[04:06:25] <bfrog> I guess I should make a little computeSkews test program until I get it right then :-/ gar
[04:07:50] <obmij_> did you enable GL_BLEND?
[04:07:57] <obmij_> just got reminded
[04:07:57] <bfrog> no
[04:08:02] <bfrog> I don't think so
[04:08:06] <obmij_> give that a try
[04:08:17] * obmij_ runs to the washroom
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[04:22:41] <Ragnarok> bfrog, why you using Qt?
[04:24:25] <bfrog> eh, its got a million nice features built in that I don't have to worry about
[04:26:10] <bfrog> why, you one of those masochists that actually like gtk+ ?
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[04:27:16] <Ragnarok> no
[04:27:26] <Ragnarok> even  though I use gnome over kde
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[04:28:09] <obmij_> hmm I'm wondering... does Bioshock run on WINE?
[04:28:16] <obmij_> any of you tried? :)
[04:28:22] <Ragnarok> no
[04:28:24] <Ragnarok> try it
[04:28:28] <bfrog> just look at winehq
[04:28:42] <obmij_> windows here :D
[04:28:49] <Ragnarok> i wanna play Halo 1 in Wine but it doesn't work right
[04:29:39] <Ragnarok> bfrog, I use Qt4 :D
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[04:30:12] <Ragnarok> the only reason I don't use GTKmm is because it doesn't have networking
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[04:30:41] <obmij_> damn, apparently it still crashes
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[04:30:50] <Ragnarok> haha
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[04:31:20] <obmij_> :D
[04:31:34] <Ragnarok> go play on windows =)
[04:31:39] <obmij_> I have
[04:31:41] <obmij_> and finished it
[04:31:48] <obmij_> I have Windows XP SP2
[04:31:50] <Ragnarok> then continue to :)
[04:31:52] <Ragnarok> SP3 is out
[04:31:57] <obmij_> but on the FreeBSD box I have wine installed
[04:32:10] <bfrog> could always just use good ole bsd style sockets
[04:32:10] <Ragnarok> FreeBSD hates me =(
[04:32:12] <bfrog> :-P
[04:32:18] <Ragnarok> bfrog, ewww
[04:32:20] <bfrog> but then... it doesn't go so well on windows apparently
[04:32:22] <Ragnarok> I hate C
[04:32:35] <obmij_> FreeBSD doesn't hate you
[04:32:40] <obmij_> FreeBSD is like Jesus, it loves everyone
[04:32:44] <Ragnarok> yes it does boy
[04:32:46] <obmij_> but unlike Jesus, it's real
[04:33:04] * obmij_ dodges
[04:33:06] <Ragnarok> hahaha
[04:33:12] * Ragnarok is agnostic
[04:33:18] * obmij_ is a weak atheist
[04:33:30] * Ragnarok is studying Wicca though
[04:33:43] * Ragnarok needs to study more and more
[04:33:48] * obmij_ facepalms
[04:33:55] <Ragnarok> ?
[04:34:07] <Ragnarok> obmij_, use Gentoo ;)
[04:34:15] <obmij_> what?
[04:34:26] <obmij_> I had that pain-in-the-ass on my laptop for a long time
[04:34:34] <Ragnarok> u use FBSD all the time?
[04:34:44] <obmij_> then I decided that I didn't need to compile everything and put up with bullshit like hard/soft masking
[04:34:52] <obmij_> it's on my server box
[04:34:54] <obmij_> and it's served me good
[04:35:04] <bfrog> archlinux buddy
[04:35:15] <bfrog> or fbsd is nice too
[04:35:33] <obmij_> 81 days since I upgraded to 7.0-rel
[04:35:37] <obmij_> not a single problem, or anything
[04:35:39] <Ragnarok> i always wanted freebsd but it hates my mouse
[04:35:44] <obmij_> and I update all my ports on a weekly basis
[04:35:46] <bfrog> how...
[04:35:53] <Ragnarok> it jerks it around everywhere
[04:36:07] <obmij_> if I count in the uptime excluding kernel+world upgrades
[04:36:11] <Ragnarok> it worked perfectly when I had a wireless logitech mouse
[04:36:11] <obmij_> it would probably go up to a year
[04:36:19] <Ragnarok> i hate wireless keyboards and mouses
[04:36:32] <obmij_> I almost was forgetting I even had a server
[04:36:37] <bfrog> obmij_: I've had freebsd boxes run for several years running simply samba and cups
[04:36:39] <Ragnarok> lol
[04:36:47] <obmij_> This one is heavy duty
[04:36:49] <bfrog> cause there was a win2k server, dual xeon, kept crashing cause of all the print jobs
[04:37:00] <bfrog> I put fbsd, cups, samba, on a p2 350mhz with 128mb of ram
[04:37:06] <Ragnarok> dual xeon *drools*
[04:37:08] <bfrog> did the same print jobs for like 3 years
[04:37:18] <bfrog> no crashes
[04:37:18] <bfrog> ever
[04:37:21] <obmij_> it's basically doing virtual hosting for 3 sites, running a no-ip client, running BIND for authoritative NS for 2 sites, a non-relay SMTP server, an FTP server...
[04:37:32] <obmij_> let's see
[04:37:34] <obmij_> what else
[04:37:43] <obmij_> MySQL + Apache
[04:37:48] <Ragnarok> imma have a 4TB Server :)
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[04:37:54] <bfrog> mysql is shit on freebsd you know
[04:38:01] <bfrog> postgres works better
[04:38:03] <Ragnarok> postgres ftw
[04:38:05] <obmij_> Sometimes I just boot up X and play with wine
[04:38:14] <Ragnarok> wine is crap
[04:38:16] <obmij_> bfrog, mysql is shit on everything
[04:38:21] <obmij_> slighly better on FBSD
[04:38:21] <bfrog> so true :-)
[04:38:23] <bfrog> hah
[04:38:44] <obmij_> and I've got all sorts of limits and stuff set up
[04:38:52] <obmij_> for potential breaks, memory leaks etc.
[04:38:57] <Ragnarok> i still sadly can't find any decent tutorials on VBO
[04:39:02] <obmij_> a fork bomb couldn't pass through my login.conf ^_^
[04:39:08] <bfrog> vertex buffer objects?
[04:39:11] <Ragnarok> yes
[04:39:14] <obmij_> a freaking fork bomb!
[04:39:22] <obmij_> Ragnarok, there's TONS
[04:39:24] <bfrog> I tried to get that working... I gave up and just stuck with render arrays
[04:39:31] <Ragnarok> obmij_, all so cryptic too
[04:39:38] <obmij_> well I have not only vertex buffers
[04:39:43] <bfrog> at least on my more finalized stuff
[04:39:45] <obmij_> but almost *buffers for anything passing down
[04:40:05] <obmij_> and don't tell me you want me to tutor you
[04:40:17] <Ragnarok> sure
[04:40:17] <Ragnarok> :D
[04:40:30] <obmij_> so anyway to wrap up
[04:40:35] <obmij_> FreeBSD has been like a slave for me
[04:40:37] <obmij_> and has worked like a superman
[04:40:50] <obmij_> I've gotten this server up to avg. loads of 100
[04:40:52] <Ragnarok> FreeBSD has great security too
[04:40:54] <obmij_> and it's run like a charm
[04:41:02] <obmij_> Ragnarok, the security goes as far as you take it
[04:41:02] <TheLorax> obmij_, as opposed to linux?
[04:41:09] <obmij_> but it's got all the flexibility
[04:41:41] <obmij_> TheLorax, gotta admit, only tried Gentoo and gave up. I'm sure there are great linux distros out there ;)
[04:41:54] <obmij_> actually I might get Debian on this box later on
[04:41:56] <TheLorax> obmij_, yeah, I'm on gentoo now :)
[04:41:56] <bfrog> centos :-P
[04:41:56] <obmij_> maybe next year
[04:42:13] <Ragnarok> Linux Narf 2.6.26-rc3-zen0 #1 SMP Fri May 23 18:20:22 CDT 2008 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[04:42:21] <Ragnarok> tomorrow it will be Intel Q6600
[04:42:26] <obmij_> counting seconds till Microsoft drops support on XP
[04:42:28] <bfrog> why would you run a rc of the kernel...
[04:42:38] <Ragnarok> because i can?
[04:42:48] <bfrog> nvidia drivers work with it?
[04:42:56] <obmij_> as soon as they try to push this Vista bullshit, this thing is running Debian
[04:42:58] <obmij_> and so is my laptop
[04:43:00] <Ragnarok> my gentoo system is unstable(means no stable releases)
[04:43:06] <Ragnarok> Debian sucks
[04:43:12] <TheLorax> I think most people run rc's for kernels...
[04:43:15] <Ragnarok> thats why Ubuntu fails
[04:43:22] <obmij_> yes yes
[04:43:26] <bfrog> TheLorax: who's most people?
[04:43:26] <obmij_> whatever floats your boat
[04:43:38] <Ragnarok> Ubuntu tried to be like Gentoo but for Debian
[04:43:43] <bfrog> I know folks still running 2.2...
[04:43:43] <TheLorax> bfrog, every machine I've ever taken to the time to check
[04:43:47] <obmij_> No.. it didn;t
[04:43:54] <Ragnarok> bullshit
[04:44:00] <obmij_> no you're bullshit
[04:44:00] <TheLorax> bfrog, every computer at my uni....
[04:44:11] <obmij_> Ubuntu is the ANTI-debian
[04:44:13] <Ragnarok> when I had a ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro AGP. The stupid livecd wouldn't even run
[04:44:20] <obmij_> err
[04:44:22] <Ragnarok> Ubuntu IS Debian
[04:44:24] <obmij_> ANTI-Gentoo*
[04:44:29] <obmij_> sorry ANTI-Gentoo**
[04:44:31] <Ragnarok> lol
[04:44:36] <Ragnarok> Gentoo > Ubuntu
[04:44:48] <obmij_> Gentoo == PITA
[04:44:55] <Ragnarok> it was when I first tired it
[04:45:02] <obmij_> it still is
[04:45:04] <Ragnarok> took 18 tries for a successful install
[04:45:09] <TheLorax> stop bashing gentoo, my system is so stable it's from an 04 install....
[04:45:15] <obmij_> yeah whatever
[04:45:21] <Ragnarok> TheLorax, you use Gentoo?
[04:45:23] <obmij_> if you can put up with hard/soft masks
[04:45:25] <bfrog> well according to RTFM_FTW aka feelgood OS X and Apple are > all so everyone needs to stfu
[04:45:27] <hibread> I also use gentoo
[04:45:34] <Ragnarok> Gentoo FTW
[04:45:34] <TheLorax> Ragnarok, only distro I ever used
[04:45:50] <hibread> TheLorax: im the same
[04:45:58] <Ragnarok> TheLorax, damn I've tried too many and always went back to Gentoo like a slut that I am to Gentoo
[04:46:13] <hibread> but im thinking of swapping over to ubuntu with a new system.. but i probably dont need to
[04:46:22] <bfrog> Ragnarok: never tried arch?
[04:46:24] <Ragnarok> hibread, nooooooooooooooooooo
[04:46:28] <obmij_> don't go for ubuncrap
[04:46:33] <Ragnarok> bfrog, yeah but could never figure it out
[04:46:38] <obmij_> at least go for the real deal
[04:46:38] <Ragnarok> but that was forever ago
[04:46:38] <obmij_> Debian
[04:46:40] <bfrog> funny...
[04:46:42] <obmij_> yeah Debian FTW!
[04:46:47] <hibread> Ragnarok: :) i really dont care for this type of war anyway. Unless its fun for you
[04:46:49] <TheLorax> unbuntu makes less sense to me than gentoo lol
[04:46:56] <Ragnarok> hibread, it is
[04:47:06] <hibread> then, carry on
[04:47:14] * Ragnarok pokes at hibread
[04:47:22] <Ragnarok> I will mister hibread
[04:47:24] <Ragnarok> xD
[04:47:26] <obmij_> the only sense Ubuntu makes is for people trying to switch over
[04:47:31] <Ragnarok> from windows
[04:47:44] <obmij_> But if you're going to give away all the flexibility
[04:47:49] <Ragnarok> then Ubuntu screws up like a cheap lightbulb in a socket
[04:47:49] <obmij_> why the hell switch to Windows?
[04:47:51] <hibread> and why there hell is there a separation between ubuntu and kubuntu??
[04:47:56] <obmij_> just listen to the ads on the walls
[04:48:00] <obmij_> and buy Windows
[04:48:02] <hibread> I want to use kde, even if that is a sin
[04:48:02] <obmij_> and say 'Wow'
[04:48:04] <obmij_> the wall says so
[04:48:06] <bfrog> thats not a sin
[04:48:11] <Ragnarok> I use Windows for trying to make a cross-platform game with Qt4. And then for gaming itself
[04:48:11] <bfrog> gnome is evil
[04:48:21] <Ragnarok> I'm only use Gnome til KDE-4.1.0
[04:48:26] <bfrog> gtk+ is an evil ugly blotch on foss
[04:48:44] <obmij_> Ragnarok, meh, use a good IDE
[04:48:44] <bfrog> now I'm going to hear about how wrong I am right?
[04:48:55] <obmij_> I've heard some nice things about NetBeans from one of our profs
[04:48:59] <TheLorax> boost is coming out with a windowing toolkit, it's gonna rock
[04:49:06] <obmij_> but must say, he's a Javahead
[04:49:17] <bfrog> windowing or widget?
[04:49:22] <TheLorax> both
[04:49:25] <TheLorax> basically like gtk
[04:49:32] * obmij_ goes back to work
[04:49:39] <TheLorax> but their dropping C off a cliff, finally
[04:49:53] <TheLorax> a true C++ widget toolkit
[04:50:17] <obmij_> meh most of my code is C style anyway
[04:50:24] <obmij_> C++ has to support C
[04:50:29] <TheLorax> not the libraries
[04:50:34] <HuntsMan> not the code
[04:50:41] <obmij_> No...
[04:50:57] <TheLorax> obmij_, don't worry, C will always be there, just not for boost
[04:51:10] <Ragnarok> obmij_, I switch between haiq and kdevelop
[04:51:18] <Ragnarok> C should die
[04:51:18] <obmij_> I'm talking about a compiler btw
[04:51:19] <TheLorax> haiq?
[04:51:24] <obmij_> Ragnarok, you should die
[04:51:26] <Ragnarok> its too fucking old and a pita
[04:51:30] <obmij_> No it is not
[04:51:32] <Ragnarok> yes it is
[04:51:34] <obmij_> maybe for a newbie like you
[04:51:40] <bfrog> C is actually really simple
[04:51:40] <obmij_> who has to make everything bloated
[04:51:42] <Ragnarok> you write more code for C than C++
[04:51:54] <obmij_> Yeah, but it doesn't come out as junk and you know what you're doing
[04:52:19] <obmij_> I use a hybried 'style' of code
[04:52:22] <Ragnarok> obmij_, I can achieve 20 functions for C in 1 function in C++
[04:52:27] <obmij_> I use C++ whenever it is truly needed
[04:52:29] <TheLorax> obmij_, every write a project with 10k + lines?
[04:52:34] <obmij_> yes
[04:52:36] <obmij_> make that 35k
[04:52:36] <TheLorax> all in C?
[04:52:43] <obmij_> C-*style*
[04:52:45] <obmij_> 80%
[04:52:48] <TheLorax> wow
[04:52:54] <obmij_> I DO make use of C++... whenever really needed
[04:53:01] <obmij_> polymorphism, classes, virtual stuff etc.
[04:53:06] <TheLorax> I couldn't do that, I'd need C++ to stay organized and manage memory
[04:53:18] <TheLorax> do away with pointers
[04:53:20] <Ragnarok> I just wish there was a pure C++ wrapper of OpenGL
[04:53:20] <bfrog> just make a giant global buffer
[04:53:22] <obmij_> Right, pay close attention... 'whenever needed' :)
[04:53:28] <bfrog> one big enough to fit *all* needs
[04:53:48] <obmij_> Hence I call it 'hybried'
[04:53:53] <obmij_> hybrid*
[04:54:03] <TheLorax> obmij_, can I see it :P
[04:54:17] <obmij_> you want me to upload my current entire project for you? :D
[04:54:33] <obmij_> and there is some stuff in there that I'd wish to keep secret... for now
[04:54:33] <bfrog> void* x = malloc(100000000000000000000);
[04:54:35] <TheLorax> uhhh, no, I thougth it may be already uploaded
[04:54:35] <bfrog> done
[04:54:39] <bfrog> no more memory problems
[04:54:49] <obmij_> but let me tell you
[04:54:57] <obmij_> I use C++ in my code
[04:54:57] <obmij_> for example
[04:55:00] <obmij_> Polymorphism
[04:55:02] <obmij_> can't live without
[04:55:10] <obmij_> Classes
[04:55:21] <obmij_> umm
[04:55:39] <obmij_> never use vectors or new/delete, I always stay with malloc realloc free
[04:55:41] <obmij_> or linked lists
[04:55:46] <obmij_> or hash tables if needed
[04:56:14] <obmij_> oh operator overloading
[04:56:16] <obmij_> definitly
[04:56:31] <obmij_> and many other things I can't recall
[04:56:38] <TheLorax> sounds like you're about to switch over
[04:56:41] <obmij_> but I don't use namespaces or iostream or a lot of that stuff
[04:56:49] <obmij_> TheLorax, sounds like *no*
[04:56:58] <TheLorax> sounds like you already have
[04:57:05] <obmij_> Naw, C++ is much bigger :D
[04:57:14] <obmij_> have you ever read a C++ reference text? :D
[04:57:19] <obmij_> it's huuuge
[04:57:22] <TheLorax> Effective C++
[04:57:33] <obmij_> that f***er stroustrop had one hellova wild imagination
[04:57:52] <obmij_> there's stuff in there that I can never imagine using
[04:59:38] <obmij_> but the old C libraries can't be done away with ... never
[04:59:42] <TheLorax> oh hey, while I'm here. what's the best cross-platform way to draw text in opengl?
[04:59:47] <obmij_> you can never take away std* from a system
[04:59:57] <obmij_> TheLorax, bitmap fonts
[05:00:02] <Ragnarok> obmij_, you never should use malloc etc in C++
[05:00:13] <obmij_> Ragnarok, I *know* what I'm doing
[05:00:15] <obmij_> ;)
[05:00:28] <obmij_> let me place more emphasis on know
[05:00:30] <Ragnarok> thats what makes C++ suck is backwards compatiability
[05:00:32] <obmij_> *->know<-*
[05:00:37] <obmij_> It makes it good
[05:00:41] <Ragnarok> pfft
[05:00:49] <obmij_> of for pete sake stop being such a dumb newbie
[05:00:54] <Ragnarok> I wish C++ was pure OO
[05:00:59] * obmij_ shoots Ragnarok
[05:01:06] * Ragnarok kicks obmij_ in the forehead
[05:01:13] <obmij_> I shot you, you're dead already
[05:01:15] <TheLorax> any other ideas, besides bitmap fonts?
[05:01:27] <obmij_> TheLorax, put your bet on it, it's your most cross-platform, safest way
[05:01:46] <TheLorax> I didnt' realize drawing text could be unsafe
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[05:02:00] <obmij_> I use the word safe, whenever I feel safe
[05:02:05] <obmij_> :D
[05:02:20] <obmij_> a bit more code means a more solid result
[05:02:32] <obmij_> hey remember, this application might run on BeOS
[05:02:34] <obmij_> :D
[05:02:41] <obmij_> or who knows? Plan9!
[05:03:38] <obmij_> either way, taking stdio/stdlib away from a system means good bye dependable system
[05:03:45] <obmij_> and f***k standards
[05:03:58] <obmij_> and any decent system wouldn't do that
[05:04:10] <obmij_> hey MicroBust might
[05:04:25] <obmij_> who knows... they once wanted to make their OpenGL non-accel OCDs a D3D wrapper
[05:04:32] <obmij_> I wonder if they got anywhere with that
[05:04:46] <obmij_> Steve Bummer is insane
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[05:05:32] <Ragnarok> didn't they try to make a OGL wrapper around D3D?
[05:06:08] <Ragnarok> like throw away the real opengl code and replace it with nothing but d3d
[05:06:16] <Ragnarok> but use the same naming crap
[05:06:32] <Ragnarok> i heard thats what they did on vista
[05:07:02] <obmij_> Hahah the really DID it?
[05:07:16] <Ragnarok> iono
[05:07:18] <Ragnarok> rumours
[05:07:23] <obmij_> I mean imagine
[05:07:32] <obmij_> how pathetic and mentally unstable you must be
[05:07:42] <Ragnarok> they fucked opengl on Windows XP
[05:07:46] <obmij_> to put in all the effor to convert one completely different API
[05:07:48] <Ragnarok> why wouldn't they on Vista
[05:07:50] <obmij_> with a complete different pipeline
[05:07:56] <obmij_> effort*
[05:08:02] <obmij_> and a completely different coding style
[05:08:13] <obmij_> to another one, just for a minor gain.... for really nothing
[05:08:15] <Ragnarok> are u calling me unstable?
[05:08:21] <obmij_> who the hell uses a non-accel OCD ... ANYWAY?
[05:08:29] <Ragnarok> OCD?
[05:08:31] <obmij_> Ragnarok, no, Microsoft...
[05:08:33] <Ragnarok> ah
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[05:08:49] <Ragnarok> I heard that OpenGL being slower on vista was bullshit
[05:09:06] <obmij_> If you install your drivers you'll be using your card vendor's drivers
[05:09:29] <obmij_> You'll have nVidia or Intel or ATI or w/e card you have 'drivers'
[05:09:36] <Ragnarok> yeah
[05:09:41] <Ragnarok> isn't that what we already do?
[05:09:43] <hibread> obmij_: precisly. Opengl is only a spec
[05:09:50] <Ragnarok> yeah
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[05:09:55] <Ragnarok> but Direct3D isn't
[05:10:00] <Ragnarok> its a toolkit
[05:10:08] <obmij_> Direct3D is a turd that refuses to flush
[05:10:10] <obmij_> because of money
[05:10:12] <Ragnarok> a bloated 600MB one
[05:10:32] <obmij_> Hehe, one of the guys in another channel said
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[05:10:40] <obmij_> "I see Microsoft becoming a gaming company in 10 years"
[05:10:43] <obmij_> so true XD
[05:10:58] <obmij_> with vista f'ing up, they only have XBOX 360s to rely on
[05:11:02] <obmij_> and the Live! gaming BS
[05:11:22] <obmij_> You see steve bummer giving a speech on "Gamers, gamers gamers.... YEAH!"
[05:11:34] <Ragnarok> Direct3D would be bad if it was backwards compatible with other editions. they update it every 2 months. You can't use DirectX 10 on DirectX 9 cards. And its not cross-platform
[05:12:10] <obmij_> they say it's because they updated the whole driver structure and all
[05:12:19] <Ragnarok> obmij_, too bad you can't tell the gaming word to switch to OpenGL
[05:12:27] <Ragnarok> world*
[05:12:29] <obmij_> Ragnarok, give it some time
[05:12:33] <obmij_> you don't tell the gamer world
[05:12:35] <obmij_> you tell the developers
[05:12:38] <Ragnarok> we have for 10+ years
[05:12:40] <obmij_> you give them enough resources
[05:12:50] <obmij_> you give them OGL 3.0
[05:12:56] <Ragnarok> I want OGL 3 now
[05:12:58] <obmij_> which has a much more slick infrastructure
[05:12:58] <Ragnarok> V_V
[05:13:06] <hibread> I think thats one benifit of DX though... each installment can be rebuilt from the ground up. Which has its pro's and con's obviously
[05:13:11] <obmij_> and tides slowly being to turn
[05:13:37] <Ragnarok> I'm not going to say DirectX sucks. Its actually very good. But the way its managed sucks
[05:13:52] <obmij_> It sucks
[05:13:54] <obmij_> period
[05:14:03] <Ragnarok> I've used it before and enjoyed it
[05:14:03] <obmij_> it has nothing to offer but monopoly
[05:14:13] <obmij_> well you sir, think through your eyes
[05:14:16] <Ragnarok> WalMart is a monopoly just like Microsoft
[05:14:30] <Ragnarok> walmart generated over 810 billion dollars
[05:14:34] <obmij_> WalMart isn't serving the software industry
[05:14:52] <obmij_> the software industry is not selling brooms and household crapware
[05:15:00] <Ragnarok> obmij_, they put KMart out of business pretty much where I live
[05:15:04] <Ragnarok> hahah true
[05:15:13] <hibread> kmart in austalia is still going strong hehe
[05:15:18] <Ragnarok> but they are just as bad as Microsoft in a sense
[05:15:29] <hibread> we dont have walmart though (atleast in the city i live)
[05:15:42] <obmij_> I use to code D3D+HLSL
[05:15:49] <obmij_> do you know what was the moment I switched?
[05:15:54] <Ragnarok> hibread, where you live. My friend lives in South Wales something bullshit
[05:16:01] <Ragnarok> iono
[05:16:31] <obmij_> The moment MS made the claim about converting their OGL OCDs. I didn't have a doubt about them not being able to do it. But it just struck me how they could abuse their power for the stuff they owned.
[05:16:48] <obmij_> And also how they stopped supporting D3D on NT4 systems.
[05:17:07] <Ragnarok> NT4 is old
[05:17:20] <obmij_> That simple incompatibility got me into a bit of a trouble
[05:17:30] <obmij_> long story
[05:17:35] <obmij_> but either way, it DID
[05:17:43] <Ragnarok> you really expect them to stil support windows 95 in 2007/8 etc
[05:17:51] <obmij_> No no no
[05:17:53] <obmij_> you don't understand
[05:18:09] <obmij_> they cut D3D support for their SERVER line
[05:18:14] <obmij_> NT4 was new back then
[05:18:19] <obmij_> DX was only at 8.1
[05:18:19] <Ragnarok> ah
[05:18:33] <obmij_> god it pissed me to no ends
[05:18:38] <obmij_> and made me look like a jackass in front of someone
[05:18:38] <Ragnarok> why would you run it on a server? unless like MMORPG etc?
[05:18:46] <Ragnarok> im sorry
[05:18:59] <Ragnarok> sorry for my confusion
[05:18:59] <obmij_> sigh
[05:19:22] <Ragnarok> imma shut up
[05:19:32] <obmij_> err why?
[05:19:41] <obmij_> I'm not pissed at you
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[05:19:49] <Ragnarok> u sighed
[05:19:53] <obmij_> I'm just pissed at what happened ... back then... well it's in the history
[05:20:07] <TheLorax> ha, yeah....DX 8, that's when I was kinda new at programming and thought i was stupid cuz all the cool kids could do it
[05:20:31] <obmij_> Man I would tell you the whole story of what happened
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[05:20:43] <obmij_> but it would just put salt on my long gone embarassment
[05:20:53] <hibread> they must have gone frmo dx1 throgh dx8 in 8 years or something.. and now 2 incarnations in another 10 years
[05:21:01] <Ragnarok> will OGL 3 run on Win 98?
[05:21:03] <Ragnarok> xXD
[05:21:14] <obmij_> Now that I think about it... why didn't I start with OpenGL?
[05:21:22] <obmij_> My code would've run
[05:21:29] <obmij_> people would've realized I wasn't making shit up
[05:21:29] <Ragnarok> the reason I didn't. I was a MS fanboy
[05:21:31] <Ragnarok> xD
[05:21:33] <hibread> obmij_: you obviously didn't like what id were doing
[05:21:40] <hibread> id = the company
[05:21:48] <obmij_> No .. no... I knew what they were doing
[05:21:55] <Ragnarok> doesn't ID only do OGL now?
[05:21:57] <obmij_> it's just that, it never really hit me
[05:22:02] <obmij_> the 'cross-platform' factor
[05:22:07] <hibread> Ragnarok: always have used OGL for the renderer
[05:22:31] <obmij_> he 1 companies wild rouge bullshit policies can give you a hard time
[05:22:33] <hibread> well.. since they supported hardware accel
[05:22:35] <obmij_> s/he/how
[05:22:54] <obmij_> s/companies/company's
[05:23:43] <Ragnarok> wow my bro hooking me up with a parole chick xD
[05:23:59] <obmij_> Ragnarok, he's doing the world's biggest mistake
[05:28:47] <obmij_> hibread, I suggest take OAL for the audio to go with that
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[05:47:26] <bfrog> can I render an rgba -> luminance fbo ?
[05:47:36] <bfrog> what swizzle would I use?
[05:47:52] <bfrog> like using a shader to find the intensity of each pixel
[05:47:54] <bfrog> and dumb it out
[05:47:56] <bfrog> *dump
[05:54:42] <DragonRift> hi bfrog
[05:54:50] <bfrog> hey
[05:55:04] <DragonRift> wasap
[05:59:20] <DragonRift> no answer?
[05:59:22] <DragonRift> :p
[06:00:22] <DragonRift> bfrog: I am unable to answer your question due to lack of programming knowledge.
[06:00:41] <bfrog> fail
[06:00:59] <DragonRift> sorry
[06:01:25] <bfrog> damn
[06:01:27] <bfrog> its not
[06:01:38] <bfrog> at least not from the fbo spec that I'm reading... I think this is up to date
[06:01:40] <bfrog> if so that blows
[06:02:38] <bfrog> nv_float_buffer did though...
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[06:04:17] <bfrog> yes, I'm making a shader
[06:04:27] <bfrog> well... more like a program...
[06:04:32] <bfrog> that uses shaders...
[06:06:33] <DragonRift> sorry for deturbing you
[06:06:38] <DragonRift> desturbing
[06:26:00] <RTFM_FTW> no you cannot renderer into (nor can you create) a L, LA, A FBO
[06:26:32] <RTFM_FTW> the FBO specification (I forget which point this is...) expressively prevents this
[06:27:20] <RTFM_FTW> although certain vendors might support this behind the scenes its entirely implementation dependent
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[06:51:50] <DragonRift> hi RTFM_FTW
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[07:00:44] <obmij_> just wondering
[07:00:49] <obmij_> are sampler arrays possible in GLSL?
[07:01:06] <obmij_> like uniform sampler2D whatever[5]; ?
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[07:05:09] <obmij_> Ragnarok, if you're still here, check this out: http://www.guru3d.com/news/ati-radeon-hd-4870-vs-geforce-9800-gx2-benchmark-results/
[07:05:41] <Ragnarok> someone said i might have to flash my vbios to get a 2.0 card to work in 1.0/1
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[07:06:20] <obmij_> That's another review in my favor
[07:06:28] <Ragnarok> i won't use ATI
[07:06:31] <Ragnarok> bad experience
[07:06:33] <obmij_> not really that ATI is my favorite but
[07:06:38] <obmij_> Just saying
[07:06:43] <Ragnarok> its favourite*
[07:06:45] <Ragnarok> xD
[07:06:55] <obmij_> I just want you to have all the input
[07:07:01] <obmij_> that's all... really
[07:07:08] <obmij_> so you don't look back and say 'darn'... like I did
[07:07:13] <Ragnarok> obmij_, just wait for an 9800 Ultra
[07:07:15] <Ragnarok> :)
[07:07:36] <Ragnarok> thats when I will buy an 9800 when that hits the stores
[07:07:41] <obmij_> heh, I'm waiting to see which one kicks the other one's ass
[07:08:23] <Ragnarok> so do i really need to flash it?
[07:08:31] <Ragnarok> or u ono?
[07:08:53] <obmij_> you might
[07:09:10] <obmij_> flashing the bios shouldn't be a hassle if you know what you're doing
[07:09:15] <obmij_> if you don't, the don't do it
[07:09:17] <obmij_> you might screw up your mobo
[07:09:48] <obmij_> just curious, what was your problem anyway?
[07:10:01] <Ragnarok> they haven't even released the 4xxx
[07:10:43] <Ragnarok> me having a PCI-e 1.1/0 x16 slot, and the card I want a 8800GT which is PCI-e 2.0 x16 only
[07:10:48] <obmij_> I know but the guys get the early peek :D
[07:13:05] <HuntsMan> wasn't 2.0 backwards compatible with 1.0/1.1?
[07:13:25] <Ragnarok> yeah
[07:13:51] <obmij_> it is
[07:13:59] <obmij_> but you might need to flash your bios
[07:14:01] <Ragnarok> PCIe 2.0 is backward and forward compatible with PCIe v1.x. Graphic cards and motherboards designed for v2.0 will be able to work with v1.1 and v1.0, and vice versa. In some rare cases it is possible that a PCI-E 2.0 card will not work correctly on a PCI-E 1.0a slot. This is only limited to certain video cards.
[07:14:17] <obmij_> dude
[07:14:19] <obmij_> try it out
[07:14:28] <obmij_> if it doesn't work see if you need an update
[07:14:30] <Ragnarok> i don't have the card yet V_V
[07:14:35] <obmij_> for your bios
[07:14:45] <Ragnarok> and call evga and ask
[07:14:47] <obmij_> you can always call up tech support for your mobo
[07:14:58] <obmij_> not really their fault, but yeah they could be helpful too
[07:15:00] <obmij_> so wait
[07:15:05] <Ragnarok> the motherboard is a asus p5n-e i think or something similar
[07:15:10] <obmij_> you getting a 9800 GX, GX2? or waiting for Ultra?
[07:15:21] <Ragnarok> for the 9800 imma wait for the ultra
[07:15:29] <obmij_> what are you getting now?
[07:15:38] <Ragnarok> evga 8800GT
[07:15:40] <obmij_> darn if you're getting the 8800 I don't know if you can sell it later
[07:15:45] <Ragnarok> thats all i can afford
[07:15:50] <obmij_> the price will rocket down
[07:15:58] <obmij_> gee man save up, don't make my mistake
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[07:16:09] <Ragnarok> its normally at $300 and at sale at $189
[07:16:11] <obmij_> I have a GTX and I wish I had gotten something better
[07:16:21] <obmij_> rather waited
[07:16:26] <obmij_> and gotten something better
[07:16:36] <obmij_> dunno man, your money, your life, your choice
[07:16:41] <Ragnarok> i wish I didn't buy the AGP ATI I have
[07:16:47] <Ragnarok> $60 waste
[07:17:12] <obmij_> heh
[07:17:15] <obmij_> AGP... when did you buy it?
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[07:17:19] <obmij_> the stone ages? :D
[07:17:24] <Ragnarok> like a couple of months ago
[07:17:32] <obmij_> well... *duh*
[07:17:34] <Ragnarok> ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro
[07:17:39] <obmij_> pffft
[07:17:41] <Ragnarok> lol
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[07:17:43] <obmij_> what did you expect? shader model 4?
[07:17:51] <Ragnarok> yesh
[07:17:56] <obmij_> Hahahhaah
[07:18:01] <obmij_> no wonder you're afraid
[07:18:04] <Ragnarok> it was DX10 card xD
[07:18:14] <obmij_> XD
[07:18:20] <obmij_> Maybe you should've *asked*
[07:18:20] <Ragnarok> it ran Crysis fine
[07:18:22] <obmij_> someone
[07:18:27] <Ragnarok> on low xD
[07:18:32] <obmij_> if fine is 0.1 FPS
[07:18:34] <obmij_> oh man
[07:18:37] <Ragnarok> 17 FPS
[07:18:47] <obmij_> dude... it's not ATI's fault
[07:18:49] <obmij_> it's PEBKAC
[07:18:55] <Ragnarok> ?
[07:18:57] * obmij_ goes back to work
[07:19:05] <obmij_> Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair
[07:19:13] <RTFM_FTW> yes arrays of samplers are supported in GLSL
[07:19:13] <Ragnarok> fuck u xD
[07:19:15] <DragonRift> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EryUvBttVCY
[07:19:23] <obmij_> RTFM_FTW, yeah figured... thanks
[07:19:37] <DragonRift> :p
[07:19:39] <obmij_> DragonRift, old
[07:20:01] <obmij_> it's no surprise btw
[07:20:03] <obmij_> it's H2S
[07:20:05] <obmij_> and that's flamable
[07:20:19] <obmij_> old toilets have histories of being blown up actually
[07:20:55] <bfrog> oh opengl genie, grant me opengl mastery and solve all my opengl problems :-P
[07:20:57] <Ragnarok> tomorrow i'll have a 800W PSU, Intel C2D Q6600, and a 880GT(if it works)
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[07:21:35] <obmij_> bfrog, *wrrrrrrring* at your service
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[07:21:48] <obmij_> 800 watt PS? good choice
[07:21:53] <obmij_> Quad core? not bad not bad
[07:22:03] <obmij_> 8800 GT? GOOOOD I WISH I COULD SHOOT YOU
[07:22:21] <obmij_> get a 9800 GX2
[07:22:23] <obmij_> or wait for the 10 series
[07:22:37] <obmij_> ok you hate ATI, FINE! wait for GeForce 10!
[07:22:41] <bfrog> question... are vertices 8bit values for each axis in opengl? if so I may know my issue...
[07:22:56] <obmij_> err ...
[07:23:01] <obmij_> verticies are floats
[07:23:06] <obmij_> and by NO means they're 8 bits
[07:23:08] <bfrog> they can't be though right? since rects and 2d's support 4096x4096...
[07:23:18] <obmij_> .... .... ....
[07:23:35] <obmij_> don't tell me you thought a double word float is just a byte long
[07:23:43] <bfrog> no
[07:24:00] <bfrog> but opengl, last I checked anyways, was using 8bit vals for most everything fragment wise...
[07:24:07] <obmij_> ... =D
[07:24:22] <RTFM_FTW> yes vertices are effectively single precision floating-point
[07:24:42] <obmij_> man you gotta check that 'checking' skill
[07:24:49] <obmij_> sure needs some checkin'
[07:24:49] <RTFM_FTW> and no OpenGL doesn't use 8-bit values for most everything fragment wise
[07:24:54] <RTFM_FTW> far from it in fact
[07:24:58] <obmij_> lol
[07:25:09] <RTFM_FTW> since damn near everything fragment wise is 32-bit single precision FP
[07:25:20] <obmij_> LOL, even till a WHILE ago
[07:25:23] <bfrog> so each channel of each pixel is stored as 32bit float?
[07:25:25] <obmij_> ints were emulated FLOATS!
[07:25:41] <bfrog> so wtf is GL_RGBA8 then
[07:25:49] <Ragnarok> i want CoD4
[07:25:51] <Ragnarok> :(
[07:25:53] <RTFM_FTW> just what it says RGBA 8:8:8:8
[07:26:04] <obmij_> the color channels are dealt with by 0-1 range in the shader
[07:26:04] <bfrog> 8bits per channel per pixel, no?
[07:26:16] <bfrog> well aware...
[07:26:37] <RTFM_FTW> what makes you think that you can't represent a 8:8:8:8 32-bit surface via 32:32:32:32 et al components?
[07:26:51] <RTFM_FTW> answer: you can
[07:27:10] <obmij_> I'm right now wondering
[07:27:15] <RTFM_FTW> in any case the TP on a modern GPU supports a number of formats (int, float, ...)
[07:27:17] <obmij_> what the ... hell... are you doing over there?
[07:27:28] <bfrog> drinking beers?
[07:27:39] <bfrog> taking out my frustration on the keyboard?
[07:27:41] * obmij_ goes back to work :D
[07:27:43] <RTFM_FTW> this is independent of the SP (shader pipe) though
[07:27:45] <bfrog> maybe a little of both...
[07:28:01] <bfrog> TP ?
[07:28:06] <RTFM_FTW> texture pipe
[07:28:14] <bfrog> I was about to say a stupid joke... but ok
[07:28:32] <obmij_> tp for your bung hole?
[07:28:36] <obmij_> we know you like beavis and butthead
[07:28:39] <obmij_> we like them too
[07:28:41] <bfrog> I thought I was specifying the internal format though opengl uses
[07:28:48] <bfrog> like on the hardware itself
[07:28:56] <RTFM_FTW> in any case both the TP, SP on a modern ASIC are fully FP (acronyms FTW)
[07:29:01] <bfrog> see... I just need to get rid of opengl altogether and have some sort of hardware language
[07:29:01] <bfrog> like...
[07:29:04] <bfrog> let me at the damn hardware
[07:29:12] <RTFM_FTW> you couldn't deal with it
[07:29:17] <RTFM_FTW> none of you could
[07:29:19] <RTFM_FTW> heh
[07:29:23] <bfrog> gallium3d?
[07:29:47] <bfrog> how hard could it be... load a chunk of memory... now do some shit with it and store it somewhere else
[07:29:54] <RTFM_FTW> yeah what the hell just let everyone construct raw HW packets
[07:30:06] <RTFM_FTW> "how hard can it be" LOL
[07:30:14] <bfrog> easier than trying to understand 2 decades of bandaids
[07:30:29] <RTFM_FTW> while you are at it make you that you construct a good shader compiler
[07:30:51] <bfrog> yeah... that might be a bit trickier :-(
[07:30:59] <RTFM_FTW> along with all of the kernel work (mmm GART...)
[07:31:12] <bfrog> k-e-r-n-e-l noooooooooooooooooooooo
[07:31:20] <bfrog> I don't wanna
[07:31:34] <RTFM_FTW> yes quite a bit of a modern GPU driver exists at the kernel layer
[07:31:57] <RTFM_FTW> and many of the fun problems sit at that layer as well
[07:33:45] <bfrog> they need to make the cell chip like a pcie addon card
[07:33:53] <bfrog> for $100
[07:33:55] <bfrog> bitch ass ibm
[07:35:05] <bfrog> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mercury-s-Cell-PCIe-Plug-in-Accelerator-31560.shtml
[07:36:49] <obmij_> something tells me Windows is using up video ram memory
[07:37:12] <obmij_> or maybe it's opengl's temporary memory
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[08:01:23] <DragonRift> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXkw3L7oxwk <- lol
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[08:22:14] <notsonerdysunny> Hello, I am trying to use GLIntercept to debug my opengl programs. However, the log file keeps saying "GLI | The GLSL logger needs OpenGL 2.0 or better to run" .. I looked up to find out my version of opengl.. it shows that my graphics driver can run upto opengl 1.5 .. Is there a way to get around this problem.. I am a novice in opengl matters.. please tell me if I am going down the wrong...
[08:22:16] <notsonerdysunny> ...path for debugging my opengl application..
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[09:14:33] <quicksilver> is there any reason to prefer triangles to quads in models?
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[09:27:22] <predaeus> quicksilver, I've heard quads are prefered in some modelling tools because of the characteristics of subdivision algorithms, but quads pose can pose problems when rendered when not all 4 vertices lie on a plane. So triangles are prefered there. In the end the GPU renders only triangles anyway (it automatically creates 2 triangles from a quad).
[09:28:02] * quicksilver nods
[09:28:13] <quicksilver> predaeus: I tend to work with quads in blender
[09:28:18] <quicksilver> because the tuts I initially followed worked that way :)
[09:28:32] <quicksilver> I guess blender doesn't produce non-coplanar quads in export in any case.
[09:28:59] <quicksilver> I was wondering if there was any reason to think a quad-based model would render more slowly and I should ask blender to traingulate
[09:29:10] <predaeus> quicksilver, that is practically impossible to achieve due to rounding errors.
[09:29:12] <quicksilver> (by the way, YAY! got my VBO code to work ;)
[09:29:21] <quicksilver> predaeus: OK, nearly coplanar :)
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[09:30:39] <predaeus> quicksilver, I don't know if it is slower, I would think so though since the triangles have to be generated additionally. Still many renderers only support triangles I think and also many tools for generating triangle-strips etc.
[09:31:00] <predaeus> quicksilver, lets wait for some pro to show up and enlight us some more
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[09:33:47] <[AD]Turbo> yo
[09:35:30] <predaeus> quicksilver, do you have experiences with Blender's Collada plugin? It seemed a bit buggy last time I've tested, and I don't think there is much dev going on.
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[09:52:49] <quicksilver> predaeus: no, I've just been using OBJ for now
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[10:39:09] <notsonerdysunny> Hello
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[10:40:13] <notsonerdysunny> I am using GLIntercept to debug my program.. it shows the error GL_INVALID_OPERATION.. is there a way to find out where this error is being raised?
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[11:38:35] <vasoq> does anyone happen to know if getting an (R dot V)^a to be 50^10 is crazy using phong's specular reflectance?  it seems really high
[11:43:39] <Ingenu> you don't trust your implmentation of phong highlighting ?
[11:45:36] <vasoq> i don't trust my math
[11:45:56] <vasoq> i can't find out what's supposed to be reasonable for that part of the equation, but it seems high
[11:48:30] <predaeus> vasoq, maybe you forgot to normalize the vectors
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[12:11:20] <vasoq> predaeus: i did, thanks :)
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[12:15:29] <WhitAnglAtWork> Hi! It seems that we cannot pass parameters by reference in GLSL (compile error: "unexpected token &").. How can I output several values in a glsl function ?
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[12:26:26] <quicksilver> are vertex arrays faster than display lists, if your card doesn't do VBOs?
[12:27:13] <predaeus> WhitAnglAtWork, GLSL functions accept in, out and inout (or something) attributes (?) for function arguments, you can also return a vector.
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[12:28:34] <WhitAnglAtWork> thanks :)
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[13:10:45] <Skarab_> plop
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[13:35:51] <WhitAnglAtWork> In my shader I get the warning: (399) : warning C7506: OpenGL does not define the global function atan2
[13:36:20] <Ingenu> you're using an nVidia board and nVidia doesn't know what complying to a specification means
[13:36:23] <WhitAnglAtWork> What will be the behaviour of my atan2 (it compiles properly) ?
[13:36:25] <Ingenu> (likely)
[13:36:30] <WhitAnglAtWork> ok
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[13:36:37] <WhitAnglAtWork> yep, I have a 8800
[13:36:41] <Ingenu> it won't run on anything but nVidia hardware
[13:36:47] <WhitAnglAtWork> but it will work as expected ?
[13:37:07] <Ingenu> you should force nVidia compiler to comply to the OpenGL Shader Language specs
[13:37:12] <Ingenu> (but I don't remember how exactly)
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[13:37:23] <WhitAnglAtWork> mmm.. ok
[13:37:25] <Ingenu> on nVidia boards it'll run, on anything else it will fail
[13:37:25] <WhitAnglAtWork> thanks :)
[13:37:47] <Ingenu> I think it's a flag in the shader
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[13:38:28] <Ingenu> BTW nVidia is responsible for a lot of limitations in Vista driver model, because they do things *wrong*
[13:39:44] <Ingenu> (so MS made sure they couldn't do too many wrong things in Vista)
[13:43:22] <WhitAnglAtWork> I also have the error: "C1011 : cannot index a non-array value".. I asked yesterday in this chan and I've been told that I could use the operator[] for vec3 (to ask for my_vec[0] instead of my_vec.x).. is it the problem here ?
[13:43:48] <Ingenu> #version 110
[13:43:52] <Ingenu> and #version 120
[13:44:03] <Ingenu> should turn it to compliant compiler
[13:44:24] <WhitAnglAtWork> to put in the shader or in my c++ program ?
[13:44:47] <Ingenu> in the shader
[13:44:49] <Ingenu> that's a shader directive
[13:45:02] <WhitAnglAtWork> ok thks :)
[13:45:20] <Ingenu> maybe it'll also fix that vector indexing issue
[13:45:25] <Ingenu> I remember I got it too
[13:46:42] <WhitAnglAtWork> with #version 120, I don't have any warning anymore (even my implicit conversion from int to float, and no more error C1011), but my atan2 warning turned into a compile error
[13:47:35] <Ingenu> 120 is the latest revision of the language (atm of course)
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[13:49:15] <WhitAnglAtWork> and with 110, it's all my implicit cast from int to float which cause errors instead of warnings :s
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[13:50:17] <WhitAnglAtWork> mm.. I see that atan2 is in fact atan
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[13:51:41] <WhitAnglAtWork> oh no, with 120 in fact I still have my indexing issue :s (C1011)
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[14:35:34] <Ingenu> mmmh
[14:35:54] <Ingenu> it'd be nice to have ATi compiler to test on
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[14:36:05] <Ingenu> ATi is much more on specs
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[14:38:45] <michele_m> you're talking about..?
[14:39:56] <Ingenu> nvidia glslang compiler not complying to specs
[14:40:19] <michele_m> ahh ok
[14:41:05] <michele_m> actually I always felt better with nVidia compiler though
[14:42:08] <Ingenu> there are specs, just follow them
[14:42:42] <Ingenu> sometimes it makes life easier, but you still can't trust the code you wrote on an nvidia board to be compliant and so to run on every hardware
[14:42:44] <michele_m> well that would be sweet
[14:42:48] <Ingenu> that's a big issue
[14:43:26] <michele_m> yes, the best solution is to try code on different hardware but sometimes you just can't do that
[14:44:18] <michele_m> in a project I'm working on even code written on nvidia hardware that's working 100% on windows just doesn't work on Mac
[14:44:25] <michele_m> even though the hardware is quite the same
[14:45:02] <michele_m> i know the problem in my case is a bit different
[14:45:14] <Ingenu> that's the same idea
[14:45:23] <Ingenu> different drivers = different behavior
[14:45:25] <Ingenu> that's a problem
[14:45:27] <michele_m> but if there were true standars.. that shouldn't happen
[14:47:13] <hibread> Ingenu: do the nvidia glsl compilers warn when you're going against the spec? "warning C7516: OpenGL does not allow constant arrays".
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[14:49:44] <vagothcpp> Where can I find help with rendering objects from files?
[14:50:18] <michele_m> hibread: infact under windows I use nVemulate
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[14:50:25] <michele_m> to force warnings as errors
[14:50:53] <michele_m> even by doing this however something doesn't work :S
[14:52:55] <hibread> if you can push standards along by doing things like nvidia supposedly does, then i support their move :)
[14:53:08] <Ingenu> if the specs doesn't allow something, it's an error to write it
[14:53:38] <hibread> Ingenu: an error to write it?
[14:53:42] <Ingenu> #version 110
[14:53:51] <Ingenu> forces compliance on nVidia compiler
[14:54:04] <Ingenu> warnings aren't for things that are errors :p
[14:54:06] <Ingenu> that's what I meant
[14:54:31] <Ingenu> using something that isn't in the spec means you've wrote something wrong, hence you get an error message
[14:55:15] <hibread> Ingenu: are you suggesting that the result i get (which is a compiled shader that works as "I" want it) means i wrote something wrong? :)
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[14:55:30] <hibread> assuming there is one of those warning:errors
[14:56:31] <michele_m> sometimes warning msges just hints you that you have written something partially wrong
[14:56:39] <Ingenu> I mean that getting a warning when you are violating the specs is lame
[14:56:41] <michele_m> that's not an error after all and helps you debug faster
[14:56:49] <michele_m> since there isn't a true debugger for shaders
[14:56:56] <Ingenu> you shall get an error and the compiler should physically hurt you :p
[14:57:01] <michele_m> ahah
[14:57:18] <hibread> Ingenu: sounds like you're using non-innovative ati hardware/drivers :)
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[14:58:17] <hibread> Ingenu: whats the code look like for initializing an array of vecs in glsl?
[14:59:00] <hibread> im getting a warning (an error that compiles on my great nvidia hardware)  warning C7549: OpenGL does not allow C style initializers
[14:59:37] <hibread> or should i not use arrays and just use a texture?
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[15:00:07] <michele_m> to be compliant with glsl you should :)
[15:00:35] <michele_m> it's a matter of 'where my shader is going to run'?
[15:00:37] <hibread> so there is no compliant way to have arrays of floats/vec2/etc ?
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[15:01:12] <michele_m> I always used textures as arrays
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[15:01:59] <michele_m> infact a texture is a bunch of data in vram.. you can use indexes to fetch from texels..
[15:02:46] <hibread> yeah. Using say GL_TEXTURE_RECTANGLE will make access easier also
[15:03:31] <michele_m> so you not get mad at calculating the correct index :)
[15:03:52] <hibread> yeah mad
[15:05:07] <michele_m> to be more practical: if you just need a shader to run on your pc, then use whatever you want
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[15:05:47] <michele_m> but if you are going to release a public project, try to be as stictly compliant as possible
[15:05:53] <hibread> i agree
[15:06:14] <michele_m> it will be much easier to manage bugs :)
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[15:09:32] <KU0N> I need 12 more questions about OpenGL, for a quizz, anybody got an idea? I'm out of imagination
[15:20:29] <prophile> into which of your orifices will prophile insert a red-hot soldering iron if you use immediate mode?
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[15:27:00] <michele_m> it depends on how much geometry you are gonna draw
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[16:05:55] <KU0N> 10 more questions to go
[16:06:03] <KU0N> that's boring
[16:08:53] <Nayena> 10 opengl questions?
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[16:10:35] <dv_> 10 opengl questions
[16:10:35] <dv_> hmm
[16:10:43] <dv_> one of them must be about rect textures
[16:11:01] <KU0N> I already made 250 questions
[16:11:06] <KU0N> I'm out of imagination:(
[16:11:15] <Nayena> 250 opengl questions
[16:11:17] <Nayena> thats kinda wicked
[16:11:26] <Nayena> do something about shaders also :P
[16:11:40] <KU0N> there are 50 GLSL questions
[16:12:05] <Nayena> oh
[16:13:10] <dv_> hmm
[16:13:14] <dv_> some about MSAA?
[16:13:25] <KU0N> already put some
[16:13:26] <dv_> some about VBOs?
[16:13:32] <dv_> FBOs?
[16:13:41] <dv_> texture arrays?
[16:13:49] <KU0N> did all
[16:14:32] <Nayena> hmmm
[16:15:10] <dv_> primitive and reasonably well AA
[16:15:19] <dv_> 'ed
[16:15:41] <dv_> RTFM_FTW, that texAA page is gold
[16:16:20] <RTFM_FTW> yep Alex is a pretty cool guy
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[16:22:20] <KU0N> I'll aske glu questions
[16:23:57] <hibread> KU0N: asked questions about floating point buffers and their advantages/disadvantage etc?
[16:24:19] <KU0N> no
[16:24:31] <KU0N> I don't know what to ask
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[16:28:28] <KU0N> yea, it's a multiple choice test
[16:29:04] <RTFM_FTW> teaching a course?
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[16:29:53] <KU0N> no, some customers did not pay me, and only job I found quickly is test creation
[16:29:57] <KU0N> for expert rating
[16:30:07] <KU0N> so I can pay my monthly bills
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[16:36:24] <KU0N> I'm wondering, is the glu nurbs toolkit still used?
[16:37:48] <Ingenu> no clue
[16:37:50] <Ingenu> in games not
[16:38:11] <Ingenu> (ok that was somewhat of a joke, OpenGL isn't used in games anymore but by iD, AFAIR)
[16:38:29] <Ingenu> [ok and on the very small Apple market share :p]
[16:42:19] <belou> iD rocks !
[16:42:54] <KU0N> We decided to use OpenGL on all platforms for our game.
[16:43:25] <belou> KU0N, nice choice
[16:43:44] <belou> your game will be available on GNU/linux distributions ?
[16:43:49] <KU0N> And we have very good results on all platform
[16:43:57] <KU0N> yea, macosx, linux and windoes
[16:44:09] <belou> what is your game name ?
[16:44:11] <hibread> I seriously wonder what the hell the hold up with GL3.0... i'm expecting some hugely significant thing that is causing such hold up
[16:44:19] <KU0N> Universe of Siderus
[16:45:23] <hibread> url? google doesn't appear to be at all helpful
[16:45:34] <KU0N> hibread: website is not released yet
[16:45:46] <hibread> i see, yep yep
[16:46:19] <KU0N> we are preparing to release a website, alongside of arts, and a novel about the game lore will follow in the end of july
[16:46:48] <KU0N> until then, most of it is under nda
[16:48:20] <KU0N> I can't wait to discuss it:)
[16:48:56] <hibread> how are you going to "release" it? Published by a publisher or what ever?
[16:49:10] <KU0N> it should be released in 3 years
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[16:49:18] <Nayena> :D
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[16:50:07] <KU0N> but we want to let people follow the dev
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[16:51:14] <belou> nice !
[16:51:21] <hibread> whats the nature of the project? As in, is this just a project on the side for the devs.. or is it their job for the next 3 years?
[16:51:25] <belou> can we have any idea of what kind of game it is ?
[16:51:35] <KU0N> it's a space mmo
[16:51:47] <KU0N> but unlike anything that already exists
[16:52:01] <belou> can we take planets as avatar ?
[16:52:03] <KU0N> it's some large scale FPS mixed with RTS
[16:52:27] <belou> nice
[16:52:28] <KU0N> belou: no, avatars will be restricted to creatures.
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[16:52:45] <belou> damn i really wanted to be an asteroids under steroids
[16:52:48] <hibread> Creatures on the C64 was a cool game
[16:52:58] <KU0N> hibread: we are currently 15 working on it, and we as soon as the website is launched, we will send our project to some venture capitals
[16:53:11] <KU0N> to get some money to hire some artists
[16:53:31] <hibread> KU0N: so how does that work? They sponsor the project, and what.. take a % cut of the profits?
[16:54:20] <KU0N> they give us, let's say, 1mio $, and we give them back 10mio$ gradualy, without any guarantee
[16:54:22] <KU0N> that's the idea
[16:54:29] <KU0N> then, you should discuss all the details
[16:54:34] <Ingenu> http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/mod/journal/journal.asp?user=ysaneya
[16:54:41] <Ingenu> space MMOG
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[16:55:27] <hibread> KU0N: i see yep. Huge interest, but in a sense risk free interest
[16:55:29] <KU0N> looking at those shots, I can say it will be very different
[16:56:22] <KU0N> Ingenu: but those shots are nice
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[16:58:09] <belou> need some betas testers ?
[16:59:05] <KU0N> yea, we will
[16:59:09] <KU0N> but right now, I need artists
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[17:00:17] <belou> where are you in the world ?
[17:00:25] <KU0N> switzerland
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[17:00:47] <belou> i'm from france
[17:00:56] <KU0N> but the problem is, right now, I don't have money, and I need artists to do a couple of drawings, so I can go see the investors with something to show
[17:01:26] <KU0N> we have a lot of code working, but that's not something to show:)
[17:01:44] <belou> do you need some musicians to ?
[17:01:49] <KU0N> yea, we will
[17:02:23] <hibread> those terrain scenes are unreal (what Ingenu linked to above)
[17:04:17] <Ragnarok> if a board is Crossfire compat will that make SLI not compat?
[17:05:37] <hibread> Generally speaking intel chipset motherboards are crossfire only
[17:05:46] <hibread> nvidia boards are both? i think
[17:05:55] <fargiolas> hey could I ask a quick question about glsl shaders? is it better to have a program that links all the shaders or a program foreach vertex/fragment couple?
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[17:12:15] <ricket> I created a sample Ogre3D application and tried to run it, and the console prints "GLXWindow::create" and then "Segmentation fault" and closes. My guess would be that it's an OpenGL problem. I'm on Ubuntu 8.04 - any ideas how to figure this out?
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[17:26:32] <ricket> Nevermind my question, I solved it. I hadn't initialized Ogre the correct way. :)
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[18:16:02] <thomash_> hi
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[18:18:09] <thomash_> i've got a project in a very short timescale. the idea is to make an application that looks like sand and when you can draw in the sand by dragging the mouse through it
[18:18:38] <thomash_> i was thinking of starting by rendering a height map as quads and modifying the height map
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[18:19:10] <thomash_> anyone have an idea/advice what to look out for?
[18:19:15] <Nayena> that could be possible
[18:19:17] <thomash_> i would be mapping a sand texture onto the map
[18:20:31] <thomash_> or is there a way to just pass a height map to opengl and let it perturb a textured surface based on it
[18:20:56] <thomash_> bump mapping just changes the lighting on the texture and i'm not sure if that would give enough effect
[18:23:29] <thomash_> i'm quite new to opengl. i'm asking just so i don't start by making things overly complex when opengl could do it for me
[18:23:31] <tmccrary> voxels may be the way to go
[18:24:19] <Weiss> thomash_: you could use a simple vertex shader to do the perturbation "for real" according to a texture
[18:24:26] <Weiss> (i think...?)
[18:24:49] <Weiss> actually, ignore that
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[18:25:10] <thomash_> weiss: do you think the shader would cause enough effect
[18:25:18] <thomash_> i read about bump mapping
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[18:25:37] <thomash_> i wasn't sure if it would be enough to make it look realistic
[18:25:53] <thomash_> or should i actually change the surface
[18:26:33] <Weiss> thomash_: "enough"? - i meant you could actually modify the geometry according to a texture, but afaik you can't do texture lookups in a vertex shader so that wouldn't work (at least without an extension)
[18:27:22] <thomash_> oh i see
[18:27:29] <Weiss> you could design some sort of cunning way of splitting a mesh up into regions, and have a separate VBO for each region, and only modify regions as they're affected
[18:27:46] <Weiss> since you only have one hand (?)
[18:28:00] <thomash_> so my current approach would be to draw like 1024x1024 quads according to a height map
[18:28:08] <thomash_> is that in any way feasible?
[18:29:20] <Weiss> so.. about 4M vertices - my low-end graphics card would struggle with that, but i think better ones would have no problem
[18:29:42] <Weiss> you'd definitely want to do something with VBOs to avoiding sending the whole load across to the graphics card each frame
[18:29:56] <thomash_> okay. i'll look into that
[18:30:31] <thomash_> i need to exploit the fact that only regions are changed that are close to the place where the sand is being displaced
[18:30:33] <Weiss> or save vertices by turning the whole thing into a mesh of triangle strips
[18:30:38] <Weiss> yes, exactly
[18:31:21] <Weiss> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/using_vertex_textures.html
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[18:32:50] <thomash_> thanks
[18:37:01] <thomash_> there's a paper on what i'm trying to do
[18:37:03] <thomash_> To achieve this we divide the regular height
[18:37:05] <thomash_> field area into a set of 10x10 OpenGL display lists.
[18:37:05] <thomash_> Once the user makes a stroke, only the affected display
[18:37:05] <thomash_> lists are updated. Once the area is eroded (all the angles
[18:37:05] <thomash_> in the simulated area are smaller than the talus angle)
[18:37:05] <thomash_> and no material is moved, the display lists are not updated
[18:37:07] <thomash_> anymore. Technically this means that the system
[18:37:07] <thomash_> is slowest when there are many areas eroded (touched)
[18:37:09] <thomash_> at the same time.
[18:37:46] <thomash_> that's essentially what you were saying no?
[18:37:59] <Weiss> yes, exactly
[18:38:16] <Weiss> although i was suggesting using VBOs rather than display lists, but it's essentially the same idea
[18:38:34] <Weiss> send all the data to the graphics card then only change a bit of it at a time, because there's so much of it
[18:38:54] <thomash_> do you think display lists would be easier to use?
[18:39:02] <thomash_> for someone who is not that familiar with opengl
[18:39:22] <Weiss> yes, if you're just starting
[18:39:40] <Weiss> but VBOs aren't very scary - it just means you have to faff with some arrays and a few extra calls
[18:40:18] <thomash_> okay i'll have a further read
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[18:42:18] <Weiss> sounds like quite a nice project to learn quite a lot quite quickly
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[19:00:56] <thomash_> Weiss: maybe too quickly ;-). i need to get a demo ready by friday. it should be fine unless i run into severe issues
[19:01:51] <Weiss> eek.. that's going to be quite intense
[19:02:28] <thomash_> if i take the display list approach essentially each rendering frame i have to instruct opengl to render every display list but i modify only the ones that are affected
[19:03:06] <Weiss> and from there isn't nothing harder than glBegin()..glEnd(), so pretty easy
[19:03:25] <thomash_> can you span a texture across multiple quads easily?
[19:03:37] <thomash_> i just reference a different texture position for each quad
[19:05:11] <Weiss> yep, pretty easy (though you may have to sit down with pen and paper for a little while)
[19:06:00] <thomash_> yeah i often make the mistake of throwing myself into the coding before i have figured out what i have to do exactly
[19:06:10] <thomash_> sometimes it works and sometimes i dig myself into a hole
[19:06:46] <Weiss> yeah, you really have to think hard before starting with this stuff
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[19:07:18] <Weiss> i have a "lab book" filled with scribbles related to my silly game
[19:07:47] <thomash_> hehe
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[19:08:55] <Weiss> the most satisfying thing is when something which you worked out from the ground up with algebra works for real
[19:09:57] <thomash_> yeah and you don't end up having to add 0.5 in odd places
[19:10:02] <thomash_> to make it work the way it should
[19:11:19] <Weiss> "calibrating" the code to make it work is very dangerous.. i've done my fair share of that in the past and it doesn't lead anything
[19:11:27] <Weiss> as soon as it doesn't work properly, you just have to get the pen and paper out again
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[19:13:40] <Weiss> doesn't lead anywhere*
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[19:43:36] <fargiolas> hey, I'm writing a shader with a uniform sampler2drect containing that should look up the active texture, is it necessary to pass it with glUniform1i? it seems to work even commenting it out..
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[22:54:03] <elite01> how would you save the frame buffer and restore it later? is there something easier than glTexCopy2D, and drawing a textured quad?
[22:54:27] <elite01> oh, i meant glCopyTexImage2D
[22:54:54] <rnx> glDrawPixels
[22:55:38] <elite01> hmm, but that will use main memory, won't it?
[22:56:23] <speedy1> elite: try rendering to FBOs
[22:58:02] <elite01> thanks, i think that's what i was looking for
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[23:31:34] <danieljames> hello, oh 3d gurus.  Can anyone tell me the easiest way to draw 2d annotations over a 3d object.  I need to do the classic thing where a thin white line comes out from an object at an angle, then goes horizontal, to a small piece of text.
[23:32:24] <danieljames> ..any tips where to start googling would be appreciated.
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[23:35:41] <MatthiasM> danieljames: just project the 3d position of the object's bounding box to 2d - and draw your text where you want it
[23:38:09] <danieljames> ok.  (am just looking at NeHe tutorial for freetype fonts.)  Do you mean just draw the text 3d, rather than 'stencilled' over the top?
[23:38:54] <MatthiasM> I suggest that you use a bitmap font loaded as texture
[23:39:13] <MatthiasM> you can take a look at Angelcode's BMFont as a starting point
[23:39:24] <danieljames> will do.  thanks
[23:39:36] <bobbens> you think rendering different parts of a gigantic bitmap font is faster then many tiny images as a display list?
[23:39:43] <MatthiasM> it is
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   May 28, 2008  
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