May 24, 2008 
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May 24, 2008 [00:00:32] *** PainBank has quit IRC[00:01:51] <RTFM_FTW> as I recall as of GLSL 1.20 ARB_draw_buffers is no longer a required #extension option[00:02:07] <RTFM_FTW> OTOH both of the ones I gave above are[00:02:18] <RTFM_FTW> assuming you want to access those features[00:02:41] *** dvoid has quit IRC[00:03:46] *** dvoid has joined ##OpenGL[00:03:55] *** PainBank1 has quit IRC[00:06:39] *** elite01_ has joined ##opengl[00:09:22] *** elite01__ has joined ##opengl[00:10:29] *** elite01__ has quit IRC[00:12:35] <RTFM_FTW> GL_EXT_geometry_shader4, GL_EXT_bindable_uniform and GL_EXT_texture_array would be a few more relevant #extension options[00:14:36] *** huperniketes has quit IRC[00:16:11] *** huperniketes has joined ##OpenGL[00:17:54] *** amz has quit IRC[00:23:38] *** Dew420 has joined ##OpenGL[00:23:57] *** amalon has joined ##opengl[00:24:11] *** elite01 has quit IRC[00:26:59] *** elite01_ has quit IRC[00:27:55] *** scy has left ##opengl[00:31:12] *** DarkUranium has quit IRC[00:32:07] <Weiss> would you say that if i have a little over 100,000 vertices in my scene, i need to cut it down to something much smaller? (if not, i'm clearly creating some kind of bottleneck somewhere because my machine doesn't seem to be able to keep up with that at ~50fps)[00:35:12] *** amz has joined ##opengl[00:35:15] <furrywolf> depends on what the scene is. I've been testing my code on a model with 12,000,000 triangles. :)[00:35:35] <MatthiasM> Weiss: it mostly depends on your target audience[00:35:53] <NeoThermic> Weiss: sounds like you've got bottlenecks :P[00:35:59] <speedy1> 8800 GTX - fully shaded scene, 66Miltris/sec @ 60Hz[00:36:24] <MatthiasM> Weiss: but 100k is not much today :)[00:37:48] <Weiss> i have a very modest graphics card (X600)[00:38:40] <MatthiasM> 100k @ 50Hz is just 5M per sec - maybe your shaders are too complex[00:38:58] <Weiss> this is without any shaders at all :/[00:39:06] <MatthiasM> you should check the CPU load and test different texture sizes and screen sizes[00:39:18] <NeoThermic> I'd consider thorwing a profiler at it :)[00:39:30] <MatthiasM> you always have some shaders running - even if you let the driver create them for you :)[00:39:37] <Weiss> indeed.. that's the next thing on my list to do[00:39:44] <RTFM_FTW> profiling should *always* be your first line of defense[00:40:05] <NeoThermic> I thought logical coding was the first line of defense?[00:40:08] <RTFM_FTW> guessing is morons :)[00:40:13] <RTFM_FTW> err is for morons[00:40:24] <Weiss> it's definitely a geometry thing rather than a fill thing, since the framerate goes right up if i don't subdivide as much - i'll investigate[00:41:00] <speedy1> count on approx 1.5 GPU cycles per triangle w/o shaders[00:41:12] <RTFM_FTW> huh?[00:41:21] <MatthiasM> that's a funny :)[00:41:29] <RTFM_FTW> I'm not sure why you would count on that :P[00:42:08] <dv_> ah, my favourite mac zealot is back :)[00:42:08] <RTFM_FTW> and concerning his hardware there isn't anything such as "no shaders" to begin with[00:42:29] *** korff has joined ##OpenGL[00:42:36] <RTFM_FTW> since the fixed function GL et al path on that ASIC is entirely driven via the programmable path[00:42:44] <speedy1> Yoda: sure thing[00:42:51] <MatthiasM> Weiss: if you know it's geometry related - are you using VBOs or DL - don't upload data every frame as a test[00:43:02] <speedy1> but I think he got what I mean[00:43:46] <Weiss> MatthiasM: VBOs, yes - i switched it from arrays to buffers a little while ago, and it didn't make any difference - hence wondering where the bottleneck might be[00:43:54] <Weiss> speedy1: sure[00:44:04] <dv_> maybe your arrays werent big enough[00:44:13] <MatthiasM> Weiss: also disable every unnecessary work - like normalizing normals, unused lights etc[00:44:18] <dv_> below a certain amount the vbo gain is small[00:44:25] <Andon> Could be your choice of primitives. For larg vertex arrays, you really want to use cache friendly primitives like strips or fans.[00:44:29] <Andon> large[00:44:32] *** [this] has joined ##opengl[00:44:37] <dv_> erm.[00:44:48] <MatthiasM> Weiss: try that: http://home.comcast.net/~tom_forsyth/papers/fast_vert_cache_opt.html[00:44:50] <dv_> cache friendlyness can best be achieved by optimized triangle lists.[00:44:54] <RTFM_FTW> proper usage / access hints are useful as well[00:45:18] <RTFM_FTW> furthermore buffer object appending can be a possible performance issue if you are doing that[00:45:30] <RTFM_FTW> which is quite common in D3D land[00:45:54] <MatthiasM> Weiss: also don't carry unused parameters in your vertex buffers - use only natives types (float and UBYTE4)[00:45:55] <dv_> Weiss, I had awful performance with VAs and a >50mio tri object[00:46:08] <dv_> Weiss, I then switched to VBOs, and the thing got MUCH better[00:46:41] <MatthiasM> Weiss: use uint16 index buffers[00:47:48] <Weiss> this isn't anything more complicated than putting some primitives (~10k vertices each) into about 6 VBOs, and drawing them with a single texture and some simple lighting[00:48:06] <Weiss> i'm thinking more and more that this is something in my code rather than a GPU thing[00:48:32] <RTFM_FTW> bad programmers are always quick to blame the driver :D[00:48:41] <RTFM_FTW> specifically bad programmers in this channel :P[00:48:58] <dv_> well, in case of the linux fglrx drivers its inevitable :P[00:49:03] <RTFM_FTW> although all the pointers given above are good to follow[00:49:09] <MatthiasM> well - we gave you some general tips for VBO usage[00:49:10] <dv_> although they DID get better.[00:49:15] <Weiss> well... it's important to have some kind of vague idea about what kind of performance to expect[00:49:53] <MatthiasM> well - in tests I was able to draw ~50M triangles/sec on a 7800GT :)[00:50:14] <MatthiasM> but this is a useless number in it self :)[00:50:23] <RTFM_FTW> performance expectations are context dependent[00:50:45] <RTFM_FTW> so any "answer" you are going to get is all but meaningless for your specific usage cases[00:50:50] <Weiss> http://home.comcast.net/~tom_forsyth/papers/fast_vert_cache_opt.html[00:51:03] <Weiss> whoops.. sorry, hit the wrong button there[00:51:07] <MatthiasM> heh[00:51:32] * dv_ expects the first one to hit the wrong button with porn links in his clipboard[00:52:16] <Weiss> indeed.. i got away lighting there :P[00:54:03] <Weiss> lightly*[01:11:14] *** Burga has quit IRC[01:11:57] *** korff has quit IRC[01:13:22] *** Yustme has quit IRC[01:17:53] *** mediogre has quit IRC[01:22:19] *** dv_ has quit IRC[01:23:18] *** bbeausej has quit IRC[01:26:15] *** [AD]Turbo has joined ##OpenGL[01:28:31] *** [AD]Turbo is now known as TurboAWAY[01:31:25] *** neoneurone has quit IRC[01:31:43] *** furrywolf has quit IRC[01:34:13] *** LiQuiDninja has joined ##OpenGL[01:35:14] *** MatthiasM has quit IRC[01:35:20] *** MatthiasM has joined ##opengl[01:38:54] *** amalon has quit IRC[01:40:16] *** Dew420 has quit IRC[01:43:51] *** speedy1 has quit IRC[01:43:58] *** juanmabc has quit IRC[01:49:12] *** pablo_ has joined ##OpenGL[01:49:21] *** Walt has quit IRC[01:51:08] *** Walt has joined ##opengl[01:53:12] <pablo_> Hi, I'm changing the projection matrix with gluPerspective and a couple of transformations, after that I want to know the region that will be projected, I mean the frustum coordinates, is it posible ?[02:08:45] *** korff has joined ##OpenGL[02:09:14] *** korff has quit IRC[02:12:43] *** prophile has quit IRC[02:16:10] *** LtJax has quit IRC[02:25:59] *** rnx has quit IRC[02:30:07] *** juanmabc has joined ##opengl[02:31:37] *** neoneye2 has quit IRC[02:45:16] *** dvoid has quit IRC[02:46:44] *** dvoid has joined ##OpenGL[02:56:18] *** furrywolf has joined ##opengl[03:07:50] *** edub4rt has quit IRC[03:11:13] *** Xmas| has joined ##OpenGL[03:15:20] <Ragnarok> blah this is confusing how my 3d math book does the complete opposite of the opengl implentation of matrices[03:16:03] *** dvoid has quit IRC[03:21:35] *** Amorphous has quit IRC[03:22:49] *** Amorphous has joined ##opengl[03:23:53] *** speedy1 has joined ##OpenGL[03:29:40] *** freespac1 has joined ##opengl[03:32:52] *** druggy_ has quit IRC[03:32:55] *** druggy has joined ##opengl[03:33:06] *** Jernej has joined ##OpenGL[03:35:07] *** memfr0b has quit IRC[03:36:08] *** freespace has quit IRC[03:37:23] *** forrestv has quit IRC[03:40:14] *** memfr0b has joined ##opengl[03:40:18] *** Diagmato has quit IRC[03:41:09] *** Ademan has quit IRC[03:42:13] *** Ademan has joined ##OpenGL[03:44:57] *** paragon has joined ##openGL[03:48:12] *** JernejL has quit IRC[03:50:45] *** Disruptor has joined ##OpenGL[03:51:01] *** Disruptor has left ##OpenGL[03:51:09] *** Disruptor has joined ##OpenGL[03:51:18] *** Disruptor has left ##OpenGL[03:58:44] *** [this] has quit IRC[04:00:30] *** speedy1 has quit IRC[04:02:04] *** freespac1 has quit IRC[04:05:31] *** freespace has joined ##opengl[04:08:52] *** pablo_ has quit IRC[04:09:09] *** amalon has joined ##opengl[04:13:36] *** paragon is now known as paragon-sleep[04:15:47] *** ajww has quit IRC[04:20:32] *** ajww has joined ##OpenGL[04:22:08] *** druggy_ has joined ##opengl[04:24:28] *** amalon has quit IRC[04:26:25] *** ajww has quit IRC[04:32:58] *** demio has joined ##OpenGL[04:33:01] <demio> hey guys[04:33:04] <demio> im trying to compiler my app[04:33:08] <demio> but I keep getting this[04:33:11] <demio> c:\documents and settings\work\desktop\cg\projecto_cg\trunk\cglib.dev\asteroids\src\screen.cpp(26) : error C3861: 'glutStrokeString': identifier not found[04:33:32] <demio> but glutStrokeChar works[04:33:32] <demio> wtf[04:34:04] <demio> i mean[04:34:05] <demio> glutStrokeCharacter[04:34:20] *** druggy has quit IRC[04:35:11] <LiraNuna> get freeglut[04:37:38] <demio> err[04:37:41] <demio> that's not an option[04:38:45] *** Xmas| has quit IRC[04:43:09] *** Suprano has quit IRC[04:43:10] <Ragnarok> demio, why not?[04:43:19] <demio> it's not[04:43:27] <Ragnarok> why not[04:43:56] <demio> is it really that important[04:43:58] <demio> it's jut not[04:44:13] <Ragnarok> why can'[04:44:17] <Ragnarok> why can't you[04:44:24] *** skyway has joined ##OpenGL[04:44:27] <Ragnarok> and freeglut is more up to date than glut itself[04:46:23] <demio> good for them[04:46:27] <demio> it's not an option to use it[04:52:05] *** blbmp has quit IRC[04:52:38] *** blbmp has joined ##OpenGL[04:53:54] *** blbmp has quit IRC[04:57:24] *** neunon has quit IRC[04:58:49] <Ragnarok> demio, and u can't tell us why its not?[04:59:21] <NeoThermic> if he tells us, I guess he has to kill us.[04:59:32] <Ragnarok> rofl[04:59:45] <Ragnarok> its top secret shit biotches[04:59:46] <Ragnarok> xD[04:59:54] *** Walt has quit IRC[05:00:06] <demio> it's just none of your business[05:00:27] <Ragnarok> haha guess he has no reason to not use freeglut[05:00:43] <demio> yea, I'm not going to use it out of spite[05:00:45] <demio> makes sense[05:00:48] <NeoThermic> anyway, logic would dictate that if your version of glut is missing a function, then either update your glut, switch your glut to something more up to date, don't use glut, or don't use the function. Getting bitchy on an irc channel to those who are helping isn't going to fix anything.[05:01:03] <demio> getting bitchy?[05:01:04] <demio> wtf[05:01:09] <demio> I asked a question and it was answered[05:01:31] <NeoThermic> actually, it wasn't, heh[05:01:38] <Ragnarok> lol[05:01:45] <NeoThermic> a suggestion of freeglut was pushed, you said no, we enquired why.[05:01:53] <demio> it was answered[05:01:58] <demio> glut doesnt have the function[05:02:10] <Ragnarok> then use freeglut ffs stop being a pita[05:02:15] <demio> wtf[05:02:18] <demio> being a pitA?[05:02:21] <demio> wtf did I do[05:02:26] <Ragnarok> pita = pain in the ass[05:02:39] <demio> I am aware of that[05:02:39] <NeoThermic> I guess you didn't answer the question with enough emotion :)[05:02:44] <Ragnarok> haha[05:03:03] <Ragnarok> <satan>use freeglut hitler</satan>[05:03:49] <demio> o_o[05:04:39] <Ragnarok> if i make a left hand matrix class. will glLoadMatrix accept it?[05:04:44] <NeoThermic> but really, answering why you can't use freeglut isn't too hard. "Client requirements are these libs, nothing new", "I'm not familiar with freeglut and want to get this working" or even "I tried to use freeglut in the past but it killed my sister"[05:05:03] <Ragnarok> killed my sister?[05:05:30] <NeoThermic> you never know these days what software might do![05:05:37] <Ragnarok> :P[05:06:00] <Ragnarok> but goddamn why did gl have to use column major instead of row major like normal people[05:06:24] <NeoThermic> To piss off anyone writing their own matrix class.[05:06:49] <Ragnarok> blah[05:07:22] <NeoThermic> I mean, really, if you didn't know that, you might want to adjust the tinfoil hat, as they're getting to you man! they're getting to you!"[05:07:45] <Ragnarok> who me?[05:08:01] * Ragnarok beats NeoThermic with a 500 pound woman[05:08:08] <Ragnarok> lol[05:15:06] *** alpharesearch has joined ##OpenGL[05:18:49] <alpharesearch> is there a way to create a x11 windows application with opengl without a window border, I want to create a calculator application that looks like a real calculator and just sits on the desktop... is this possible with opengl - I'm using Ubuntu)[05:22:38] <alpharesearch> my plan is to create a real looking 3d calculator in Blender and display with opengl (but don't rewrite the calculation part at all, reuse the app from gnome)[05:23:43] <alpharesearch> of course I never used OpenGL before and also don't know much about anything[05:24:35] <Ragnarok> question, why write a calculator in 3d?[05:24:43] <Ragnarok> opengl*[05:25:33] <alpharesearch> I like my casio table calculator and I want the same look and feel on my computer[05:26:10] <Ragnarok> wow ur going to have a tough mission[05:26:34] <Ragnarok> do u want like to rotate the visual mathmatics?[05:26:36] <Ragnarok> etc[05:27:11] *** demio has quit IRC[05:27:37] <Ragnarok> it'd be best to do the look in a normal api then just for the screen do opengl[05:27:40] <alpharesearch> no I just want the calculator on the desktop to look like my casio calculator on the table...[05:27:43] <alpharesearch> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7942892719183549116&q=blender+calculator&ei=2Yo3SInJJ57k4AKvmtnnAw&hl=en[05:28:00] <alpharesearch> this is a video of the calculator I made in Blender[05:28:08] <Ragnarok> wow[05:28:14] <Ragnarok> props[05:28:39] <Ragnarok> yeah i think u can but X11 isn't exactly easy[05:29:45] <alpharesearch> I want to just display the model and use the 3d keys instead of gtk or qt for example[05:30:18] <alpharesearch> and this is a non graphical calculator by the way...[05:30:27] *** KU0N has quit IRC[05:31:13] <Ragnarok> holy shitz[05:31:13] <Ragnarok> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=bert&hl=en&sitesearch=#q=opengl&hl=en&sitesearch=[05:32:01] <Ragnarok> yeah u can but i never done something like that you can try in #xorg for more help if needed[05:33:06] *** LiQuiDninja has quit IRC[05:33:24] <alpharesearch> ok thank you[05:34:19] *** Burga has joined ##OpenGL[05:34:54] *** juanmabc has quit IRC[05:41:17] *** m4ggus has joined ##opengl[05:47:42] *** ectropy has joined ##OpenGL[06:05:46] *** Knightingale has joined ##OpenGL[06:09:58] *** BahamutZERO has quit IRC[06:13:42] *** TheLorax has joined ##opengl[06:19:55] *** pablo_ has joined ##OpenGL[06:19:57] *** pablo_ is now known as pablo[06:26:34] *** HuntsMan has joined ##opengl[06:28:12] *** stringfellow has joined ##opengl[06:45:00] *** PainBank has joined ##OpenGL[06:49:43] *** Watermelon2 has joined ##OpenGL[06:54:17] *** the_darkside_986 has joined ##OpenGL[06:58:08] <the_darkside_986> i notice that in ortho mode, drawing an image below an image with transparency (by specifying a lower z coordinate value) does not work if the image on-top has been drawn first. any way around that?[06:59:58] <the_darkside_986> i want to render all the static objects of my gamemap, including ground and structures, before rendering the other sprites, which may or may not be below any given map structure.[07:00:35] *** mm^away has joined ##opengl[07:01:19] <the_darkside_986> the only thing i can think of is putting them all in the same list and software-sorting them as necessary, but that seems a bit unclean in design.[07:04:17] <TheLorax> the_darkside_986, yeah that happens in 3d too[07:04:51] <TheLorax> the_darkside_986, software sorting is the easy way to do it, there is also mutiplicative blending that is order independent but looks a bit crappy and saturated[07:05:33] *** servus has quit IRC[07:05:38] <TheLorax> there are some shaders that can do decent order independent transparent rendering but back to front additive is still the best[07:07:55] <the_darkside_986> i see.[07:08:01] <TheLorax> indeed[07:09:11] <the_darkside_986> i guess i will place my TileMap class in charge of rendering everything (except HUD, GUI, etc.)[07:09:27] <the_darkside_986> afterall, anything walking around on the map IS part of the map, sorta.[07:09:35] <Watermelon2> ...[07:11:08] <the_darkside_986> i mean that for the sake of design, i can't think of any other way to make sure all objects are rendered in the correct order.[07:12:04] <TheLorax> why not just have everything inherite from sprite, then have a "world" object have a list of sprites?[07:12:11] <TheLorax> then sort that list[07:13:03] <Watermelon2> yea add the objects to draw a list or 'cache'[07:13:14] <Watermelon2> then draw the list as a vertex array[07:13:22] *** mediogre has joined ##OpenGL[07:13:27] <Watermelon2> *draw list[07:15:59] <the_darkside_986> i'm dealing with 2D isometric view, the user being in front of a non-moving tree or walking behind it perhaps, both being drawn with transparent textures. but yeah, everything will have to be in the same list.[07:17:41] *** mm765^away has quit IRC[07:18:00] <the_darkside_986> my whole OOP design is broken now that I think about it... I should make an IRenderable and IUpdatable interfaces instead of my stupid abstract GameObject class.[07:19:48] <Watermelon2> plain old C ftw...[07:20:40] <Watermelon2> you/your projects dont benefit much from oop[07:20:54] *** PainBank has quit IRC[07:20:55] <Watermelon2> and you end up spending more time on worthless design than your actual game[07:23:10] <the_darkside_986> well, I certainly will port this from D+MiniD to C+Lua if I port it to the PSP, which doesn't have a D compiler (for good reason too)[07:23:46] <the_darkside_986> but the psp GU is hell compared to the simplicity and usability of openGL.[07:25:05] <Watermelon2> probably because it has less raw power than average pc gfx card i guess...[07:26:18] <the_darkside_986> that and forgetting to put a few lines of strange code will cause random graphics errors such as psychedelic colors and multiple miniature screens :/[07:27:08] <Watermelon2> lol[07:27:58] <the_darkside_986> i mean, sure, there is "pspgl" which i believe is a minimal opengl-like interface to the pspgu but i don't know how capable it is of anything.[07:28:41] <sohail> is there some windows exe I can run to determine the video cards GL capabilities?[07:28:47] <Watermelon2> maybe it's powerful enough for your 2d game?[07:29:28] <Watermelon2> dunno it's just a string after all...[07:36:14] *** PainBank has joined ##OpenGL[07:37:20] *** skyway has quit IRC[07:41:39] <TheLorax> the_darkside_986, can you get full gpu power off the psp when doing homebrew stuff?[07:42:30] <the_darkside_986> as far as i know, people have written some 3D stuff but it's a really ugly API and tricky to work with, so most people get scared and resort to writing 2D Lua scripts :/[07:43:06] <the_darkside_986> but most of the openGL knowledge can be applied. the examples in the gu folder help a lot.[07:43:27] <TheLorax> gu folder? is this some sort of offical sdk?\[07:44:16] <the_darkside_986> it's a homemade port of the GNU compiler tools such as gcc for the PSP. it requires an unofficial firmware to run homebrew code.[07:44:29] <TheLorax> neat-o[07:44:31] <the_darkside_986> i'm still on 3.4-OE, upgraded from 1.5.[07:44:58] <TheLorax> I _ALMOST_ got one for homebrew only, still thinking about it[07:45:44] <the_darkside_986> people run homebrew on the new slim ones but i don't know how successful they are. seems like a lot of homebrew releases are specifically patched for PSP slim.[07:48:00] <the_darkside_986> i personally only use it for developing homebrew or occasionally playing snes games. other than, most homebrew releases are... lacking.[07:58:44] *** korff has joined ##OpenGL[08:06:45] *** korff has quit IRC[08:12:19] *** scy has joined ##opengl[08:14:38] *** ectropy has quit IRC[08:23:29] *** fargiolas has joined ##OpenGL[08:30:01] *** TheLorax has quit IRC[08:50:13] *** Lucine2 has quit IRC[08:50:33] *** Lucine2 has joined ##OpenGL[08:50:47] *** [this] has joined ##opengl[09:27:35] *** [this] has quit IRC[09:30:57] *** neoneye has joined ##OpenGL[10:08:25] *** Yustme has joined ##opengl[10:13:40] *** predaeus has joined ##opengl[10:15:26] *** sohail has quit IRC[10:17:09] *** predaeus_ has joined ##opengl[10:19:02] *** rutski has quit IRC[10:34:09] *** predaeus has quit IRC[10:37:37] *** nathan_ has joined ##OpenGL[10:43:24] *** Burga has quit IRC[11:00:12] *** mm^away is now known as mm765[11:00:13] *** BahamutZERO has joined ##OpenGL[11:13:12] *** hubbe3 has quit IRC[11:14:05] *** hubbe3 has joined ##OpenGL[11:16:07] *** neoneurone has joined ##OpenGL[11:17:13] *** dvoid has joined ##OpenGL[11:21:44] *** joakim12 has joined ##OpenGL[11:23:59] *** nathan_ has quit IRC[11:26:21] *** nathan_ has joined ##OpenGL[11:28:16] *** Burga has joined ##OpenGL[11:35:08] *** dv_ has joined ##OpenGL[11:37:12] *** IJs\laptop has joined ##OpenGL[11:37:17] *** DobosCake has quit IRC[11:43:10] *** dvoid has quit IRC[11:45:13] *** m4ggus has quit IRC[11:45:16] *** m4ggus_ has joined ##opengl[11:45:23] *** m4ggus_ is now known as m4ggus[11:50:17] *** nytejade has quit IRC[11:50:52] *** servus has joined ##opengl[11:51:53] *** LtJax has joined ##opengl[11:52:33] <LtJax> any of you guys got a numerically robust matrix to quaternion conversion?[11:53:14] <LtJax> all the ones I found on the net fail with a specific case I got[11:57:08] *** Suprano has joined ##OpenGL[11:57:29] *** Ademan has quit IRC[11:58:24] *** Ademan has joined ##OpenGL[12:03:09] *** Jupp3 has joined ##OpenGL[12:04:34] *** Robbo has joined ##OpenGL[12:06:46] <Robbo> Hello[12:07:06] <Robbo> Is it possible setting multiple pixel maps?[12:09:30] *** DarkUranium has joined ##OpenGL[12:09:32] <LtJax> what do you mean by pixel maps?[12:09:38] <DarkUranium> hey guys[12:09:45] <LtJax> hey[12:09:54] <DarkUranium> where could I find some bone animations?[12:10:24] <LtJax> check out alternative quake3 models ;)[12:10:27] <DarkUranium> _bone_ animations, so no *.md2[12:10:37] <DarkUranium> do they come with bone anim?[12:10:41] <LtJax> I think so[12:10:52] <DarkUranium> because md2's animation is based on polys[12:10:56] <LtJax> I think that was one of the new things with q3[12:11:01] <DarkUranium> o[12:11:12] <DarkUranium> didn't know that... I assume I'd find them in Q3 source?[12:11:15] <DarkUranium> no?[12:11:16] <LtJax> I thought q2 had keyframe anim[12:11:21] *** joakim12 has quit IRC[12:11:28] *** joakim12 has joined ##OpenGL[12:11:30] <LtJax> no, the source doesn't come with the data[12:11:44] *** Watermelon2 has quit IRC[12:11:57] <DarkUranium> "Each frame contains the positions in 3D space for each vertex of each triangle that makes up the model. Quake 2 (and Quake) models contain only triangles."[12:12:04] <DarkUranium> from a site with Q2 model specs[12:12:14] <DarkUranium> and each vertex of each triangle -> poly-based[12:12:25] <DarkUranium> it only says that for Q2 and Q1, so you might just be right...[12:12:35] <LtJax> yea, that's keyframe animation[12:12:43] <DarkUranium> ah[12:12:48] <LtJax> tho bone anim can be keyframed too[12:12:54] <LtJax> hm[12:13:03] <LtJax> yea, you're right - it's not the same[12:13:45] <LtJax> they might have added bone animation in TeamArena but I'm not sure about that[12:13:51] <LtJax> anyways, it's in the q3 source[12:14:16] <DarkUranium> it is?[12:14:21] <DarkUranium> yay if it is :)[12:14:27] <DarkUranium> anyways, I only need the bones (for now)[12:14:32] <LtJax> "With the release of Quake III: Team Arena, support for skeletal models was also added."[12:14:37] <LtJax> from wikipedia[12:14:38] <DarkUranium> I see[12:14:52] <DarkUranium> but the thing is that it doesn't neccesarilly mean that they used skeletal models[12:15:12] <DarkUranium> in fact, I bet they kept them the "old way", since the models were already done for Q3A[12:15:20] <DarkUranium> there was no need to remake them for Q3TA[12:16:31] <DarkUranium> I could try getting Q3TA demo first, just to see if it contains the stuff[12:16:44] <LtJax> that's true, but maybe the models from the free quake variant use bones[12:16:51] <DarkUranium> yeah[12:16:55] <DarkUranium> and Q3A source is 2.2MB[12:16:59] <DarkUranium> no way there would be all the models in there[12:17:49] <LtJax> check out open arena[12:18:44] <LtJax> ah, they got no skelettal models either[12:18:45] <LtJax> damn[12:19:20] <DarkUranium> I guess I'll just need to get someone to do them manually...[12:19:22] <DarkUranium> darn[12:19:28] <DarkUranium> I need the damn bone anim[12:19:40] <LtJax> there's some in the Ogre sdk[12:19:52] <DarkUranium> hmm... yeah, I've totally forgotten[12:19:55] <DarkUranium> and G3D comes with a model pack[12:20:00] <DarkUranium> have to check that out[12:20:15] <DarkUranium> there's a robot.skeleton[12:20:21] <DarkUranium> ninja.skeleton[12:20:44] <DarkUranium> etc etc[12:22:26] <DarkUranium> G3D only comes with Q2/Q3 stuff though[12:28:42] *** korff has joined ##OpenGL[12:29:49] <DarkUranium> now to find out how to open it...[12:29:59] <DarkUranium> ah, there's a #ogre3d :)[12:30:07] *** nathan__ has joined ##OpenGL[12:30:21] *** nathan_ has quit IRC[12:34:01] *** obmij has joined ##OpenGL[12:34:09] <obmij> sampler arrays are allowed in GLSL, eh?[12:36:29] *** [this] has joined ##opengl[12:48:18] *** Watermelon2 has joined ##OpenGL[12:51:43] *** Xmas| has joined ##OpenGL[12:56:41] *** dvoid has joined ##OpenGL[13:05:16] *** korff has quit IRC[13:13:29] *** nathan__ has quit IRC[13:28:06] *** korff has joined ##OpenGL[13:33:01] *** dolphin has joined ##OpenGL[13:34:17] *** Burga__ has joined ##OpenGL[13:39:05] *** Burga has quit IRC[13:43:05] *** mediogre has quit IRC[13:43:29] *** korff has quit IRC[13:50:39] *** dolphin has quit IRC[13:56:45] *** [this] has quit IRC[14:04:39] *** prophile has joined ##opengl[14:06:13] *** m4ggus has quit IRC[14:08:12] *** Ademan has quit IRC[14:09:49] *** Ademan has joined ##OpenGL[14:11:17] *** scy has left ##opengl[14:12:47] *** Roderic has joined ##OpenGL[14:12:48] *** Roderic is now known as Ingenu[14:13:30] *** DobosCake has joined ##OpenGL[14:20:15] *** LordMetroid has joined ##OpenGL[14:35:38] *** magnet___ has quit IRC[14:35:43] *** magnet__ has quit IRC[14:35:54] *** obmij has quit IRC[14:36:56] *** KU0N has joined ##OpenGL[14:46:30] <KU0N> hello[14:47:10] <DarkUranium> hi[14:56:27] *** Suprano has quit IRC[14:57:35] *** Suprano has joined ##OpenGL[15:08:33] *** Suprano has quit IRC[15:11:18] *** rnx has joined ##opengl[15:12:23] *** Ademan has quit IRC[15:14:14] *** Suprano has joined ##OpenGL[15:15:01] *** Ademan has joined ##OpenGL[15:25:07] *** Watermelon2 has quit IRC[15:34:00] *** Suprano has quit IRC[15:36:05] *** Suprano has joined ##OpenGL[15:38:41] *** paragon-sleep is now known as paragon[15:42:08] *** fargiolas has quit IRC[15:44:12] *** nytejade has joined ##OpenGL[15:54:07] *** Walt has joined ##opengl[16:09:46] *** LordMetroid has quit IRC[16:11:41] *** m4ggus has joined ##opengl[16:12:56] *** BadChoice has joined ##OpenGL[16:13:09] <BadChoice> hi!, is ftgl a good text library ?[16:14:34] <prophile> no[16:14:37] <prophile> it's not[16:14:57] <prophile> it uses immediate mode[16:14:59] <prophile> it's horrible[16:15:02] <prophile> use freetype and implement your own text renderer[16:15:03] <prophile> it's really not as hard as it looks[16:15:26] <BadChoice> mm[16:15:38] <BadChoice> but I want something easy, at least for now[16:15:56] <BadChoice> something llike, drawtext("hello world")[16:16:08] <BadChoice> and draws the text where the glmatrix is located[16:19:52] *** juanmabc has joined ##opengl[16:25:49] *** DarkUranium has quit IRC[16:26:40] *** huperniketes has quit IRC[16:30:44] *** huperniketes has joined ##OpenGL[16:36:10] *** fargiolas has joined ##OpenGL[16:46:27] *** Tag^None has joined ##OpenGL[16:55:49] *** Tag^None has quit IRC[16:56:01] *** neoneye has quit IRC[16:56:02] *** amalon has joined ##opengl[16:56:53] *** Ademan has quit IRC[16:58:35] *** BahamutZERO has quit IRC[17:02:25] *** Xmas| has quit IRC[17:05:06] *** amalon has quit IRC[17:05:38] *** Robbo has quit IRC[17:12:21] *** dv_ has quit IRC[17:13:57] *** ectropy has joined ##OpenGL[17:17:49] *** m4ggus has quit IRC[17:21:00] *** wcstok has joined ##OpenGL[17:25:48] *** demio has joined ##OpenGL[17:43:53] *** Xmas| has joined ##OpenGL[17:50:59] *** demio has quit IRC[17:52:40] <BadChoice> a good text library for opengl?[17:56:44] *** alpharesearch has quit IRC[17:58:23] <rnx> ui libs do text and chances are you'll need one anyway[18:01:10] *** sohail has joined ##OpenGL[18:06:02] *** mm765 is now known as mm765^away[18:06:36] <BadChoice> what are ui libs?[18:09:01] <prophile> libs that do UI[18:09:06] <prophile> like CEGUI[18:09:13] <Jupp3> BadChoice: You might want to look into SDL_ttf[18:09:24] <Jupp3> Although no idea what kind of "text library" you want[18:09:47] <Jupp3> SDL_ttf or any ui libs most certainly won't help much if you want 3D text meshes, for example[18:13:59] <BadChoice> no.. i just want normal text[18:14:00] *** gusnan has joined ##OpenGL[18:14:09] <BadChoice> i'll take a look at SDL_ttf[18:14:13] <BadChoice> is it easy to use?[18:14:33] <bobbens> it's not for opengl, you'd have to do a weird approach[18:14:50] <bobbens> it creates "surfaces" which you'd have to convert to opengl texturse and then draw[18:14:57] <bobbens> overall i'd say it's a Bad Choice[18:15:03] <BadChoice> mmm[18:15:14] <BadChoice> mmm[18:15:25] <BadChoice> if its a surafce I can handle it well I think[18:15:32] <BadChoice> i'm developing a quicklook for linu[18:15:33] <BadChoice> linux[18:15:38] <BadChoice> I have it in a very good way![18:15:57] <BadChoice> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo09GRwbokU[18:16:01] <BadChoice> this is a early version[18:16:12] <BadChoice> now I can load txt files pdfs images and mp3[18:16:43] <BadChoice> I'll try with sdl_ttf and i'll tell you how it goes![18:16:44] <BadChoice> thanks![18:27:45] <Jupp3> bobbens: Well it's just that quite many people use OpenGL with SDL[18:27:57] <bobbens> still, it's slow if you want dynamic text[18:28:00] <Jupp3> Biggest problem is that it creates surfaces with the size of the rendered text[18:28:03] <bobbens> unless you preload it all[18:28:38] <Jupp3> bobbens: Well when I said that, there was no other info except for "good text library for opengl"[18:28:46] <Jupp3> Which doesn't really tell anything[18:29:02] *** demio has joined ##OpenGL[18:29:05] <demio> hi guys[18:29:08] <Jupp3> SDL_ttf is ok for "pre-rendered" text[18:29:15] <demio> what should I compare a GLboolean against?[18:29:19] <bobbens> i wish there was a good text library (tm) for opengl[18:29:22] <Jupp3> For "fast" text you might want to use specially created font[18:29:30] <bobbens> demio: GL_TRUE i believe or something like that[18:29:37] <demio> ok[18:29:38] <Jupp3> demio: GLbloolean perhaps?[18:29:52] <bobbens> Jupp3: i use a display list with pregenerated characters[18:29:56] <bobbens> but i don't think it's the best approach[18:30:07] <Jupp3> bobbens: Sure isn't, firstly it won't work on OpenGL ES[18:30:23] <bobbens> my main issue is with unicode :P[18:30:46] <Jupp3> bobbens: I could describe my system... I have a pre-created vertex table, which has coordinates for each char (with max length, of course)[18:31:06] <Jupp3> And when I want a string, I simply generate text coordinates, which put right chars at the correct "slots"[18:31:12] <MatthiasM> bobbens: Angelcode's BMFont utility can handle unicode font[18:31:49] <Jupp3> Currently I do that per-frame, but the final idea is to do allocation system, where you can allocate text, you can draw and change with its unique ID[18:32:15] <bobbens> MatthiasM: issue isn't generating the unicode[18:32:19] <bobbens> my code can handle it :)[18:32:20] *** BahamutZERO has joined ##OpenGL[18:32:20] <Jupp3> Each string having common vertex coordinates and index array, and own texture coordinate array and amount of vertices[18:32:21] <bobbens> it's just properly using it[18:32:27] <bobbens> seeing what symobls to pregenerate, etc...[18:32:41] <MatthiasM> there is also a cross platform tool available that can also create BMFont files: http://slick.cokeandcode.com/demos/hiero.jnlp[18:32:58] <MatthiasM> bobbens: ??[18:33:19] <bobbens> is it actually an API? or just a font generation tool thingy?[18:33:40] <MatthiasM> well - there is an example for using the files with C and GL 1.1[18:33:53] <MatthiasM> and there are a lot of java libs that can render this text format[18:34:05] <MatthiasM> one of them is slick[18:34:27] <MatthiasM> but you need a unicode aware string library[18:34:34] <MatthiasM> (if you don't use java)[18:35:01] *** Knightingale has quit IRC[18:35:35] *** gus4n0 has joined ##OpenGL[18:36:25] *** the_darkside_986 has quit IRC[18:36:49] <bobbens> might look at it a bit more[18:36:56] <bobbens> but have other higher priority things now :)[18:40:15] *** JernejL_ has joined ##OpenGL[18:42:24] *** Andon has quit IRC[18:42:41] *** Andon has joined ##OpenGL[18:45:05] *** BadChoice has quit IRC[18:47:23] *** LtJax has quit IRC[18:50:19] *** gusano has quit IRC[18:57:33] *** TheLorax has joined ##opengl[18:57:50] *** fargiolas has quit IRC[18:58:28] *** Jernej has quit IRC[19:01:57] *** fargiolas has joined ##OpenGL[19:04:01] *** BadChoice has joined ##OpenGL[19:06:10] <Weiss> am i right in thinking that there's no way to find out if a particular light is enabled or disabled (via glEnable(GL_LIGHT0) etc.) in a shader, and i must use, say, a uniform variable to emulate this? - or is there something the GLSL cheat sheet isn't telling me?[19:09:36] *** wcstok has quit IRC[19:13:39] *** juanmabc has quit IRC[19:17:41] *** JagWire has joined ##OpenGL[19:32:19] <prophile> Weiss: a uniform I'm afraid[19:32:30] <prophile> or just different shaders for it if is or isn't there[19:40:48] <Weiss> yeah, it's not much bother to implement, i just wondered if there was something i'd missed[19:45:26] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[19:53:40] *** BadChoice has quit IRC[19:53:59] *** Xmas| has quit IRC[19:56:26] *** JagWire has quit IRC[19:57:04] <MatthiasM> Weiss: why not switch completly to a shader/uniform based system and ignore the FF states[19:57:26] *** poseidon has joined ##OpenGL[19:58:11] <poseidon> What would you guys recommend for game developement? openGL+SDL or openGL+FLFW[19:58:24] <MatthiasM> lwjgl :)[19:58:29] <poseidon> *GLFW[19:59:07] <poseidon> MatthiasM, sorry, with c++[19:59:56] <ville> I'd probably go with SDL and OpenGL, or even Ogre3D.[20:00:55] <ville> No experience with GLFW though so I can't give any technical reason why I wouldn't choose it.[20:02:35] <MatthiasM> you may want to take a look at OpenSceneGraph too[20:09:03] *** joakim12 has quit IRC[20:09:58] *** joakim12 has joined ##OpenGL[20:17:04] *** replor has quit IRC[20:18:20] <charlie5> poseidon: one possible limitation of GLFW is that it only supports a sinlge window[20:18:25] <charlie5> <single>[20:19:53] *** joakim12 has quit IRC[20:20:15] <prophile> but so does SDL[20:22:04] *** joakim has joined ##OpenGL[20:23:30] *** joakim has quit IRC[20:23:43] <charlie5> ah, i dont know SDL[20:23:44] *** joakim has joined ##OpenGL[20:23:56] <charlie5> freeGLUT allows multiple windows[20:24:58] <prophile> but that has the downside of being GLUT[20:25:07] <prophile> to be honest, if you need multiple windows, the best way of going about it is to write your own layer over target OS windowing systems[20:25:10] <prophile> gives you a little more control[20:33:44] *** poseidon has quit IRC[20:39:39] *** fargiolas is now known as fargiolas|afk[20:48:50] *** HuntsMan has quit IRC[20:53:55] *** blbmp has joined ##OpenGL[20:57:59] *** joakim has quit IRC[21:01:09] *** HuntsMan has joined ##opengl[21:06:08] *** TheLorax has quit IRC[21:13:09] *** whoppix has joined ##OpenGL[21:17:45] *** predaeus_ has quit IRC[21:18:56] *** mm765^away is now known as mm765[21:20:21] *** rutski has joined ##OpenGL[21:29:10] *** LiQuiDninja has joined ##OpenGL[21:35:43] *** mads- has joined ##OpenGL[21:35:48] *** demio has quit IRC[21:50:40] *** scy has joined ##opengl[22:00:13] *** bolides has joined ##OpenGL[22:01:30] *** nplus has joined ##OpenGL[22:04:14] *** rsaltini has joined ##OpenGL[22:05:14] *** wcstok has joined ##OpenGL[22:05:48] <rsaltini> hello, i don't understand why the spotlight direction is transformed by the inverse of the modelview matrix[22:06:37] *** BahamutZERO has quit IRC[22:09:42] <LiQuiDninja> light? can you provide a link to the shabby tutorila that confused you? if not then paste your code as usual[22:11:06] <rsaltini> I read from http://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man/[22:13:01] <rsaltini> this is the entire sentence: The spot direction is transformed by the inverse of the modelview matrix when glLight is called (just as if it were a normal),and it is stored in eye coordinates. It is significant only when GL_SPOT_CUTOFF is not 180, which it is initially. The initial direction is 0 0 -1.[22:25:43] <MatthiasM> rsaltini: this allows you to specify lights with your current matrix[22:26:11] <MatthiasM> eg you can translate and rotate - setup a light - and then render what you want with any transform - the light is where you set it up[22:34:25] <rsaltini> I don't understand why it's used the inverse matrix[22:34:43] *** TheLorax has joined ##opengl[22:38:00] <MatthiasM> rsaltini: becase the model view matzrix define object space -> world space[22:38:12] <MatthiasM> *eye space[22:47:21] *** amalon has joined ##opengl[22:47:44] <rsaltini> is the direction expressed in eye coordinates?[22:48:40] <MatthiasM> no - in object space[22:52:30] *** demio has joined ##OpenGL[22:55:04] <rsaltini> and so the direct matrix should be used not the inverse one....[23:17:10] <rsaltini> where am I doing wrong?[23:18:57] <MatthiasM> sorry can't help you now - maybe look in the red book or the GL specs[23:45:18] <mm765> hm. transformed by inverse of modelview matrix and stored in eye-coordinates - object space->eyespace is the modelview matrix, so that would mean its converted into worldspace by negating the transformation into eyespace (which is probably the default with all values passed to gllight)- but then again, with the opengl documentation its anyones guess what they really mean by it