[00:00:39] <angasule> KittyCat: http://www.anduin.net/~angasule/  <-- released (cleaned up, placed copyright notices, etc)
[00:07:25] <angasule> KittyCat: around? I was thinking of sending that link to the openal list
[00:07:53] <angasule> KittyCat: btw, openal-soft is now in debian testing, which is what debian desktop users use, and what ubuntu uses as a base for its releases
[00:07:59] <angasule> so, yay :)
[00:08:03] <KittyCat> cool
[00:08:20] <wild13> thats odd
[00:08:26] <KittyCat> writing to the mailing lists sounds like a good idea. I've mentioned wanting to make a configurator like that, so letting them know that there is one would be nice
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[00:08:55] <angasule> wild13: what is?
[00:09:19] <wild13> cCreate(); takes two strings
[00:09:22] <wild13> and im getting a
[00:09:41] <wild13> no matching function for call to cAudioManager::cCreate(const char [5],const char [6]
[00:10:35] <KittyCat> they need to take std::string or const std::string& to implicitly convert a char array
[00:10:45] <KittyCat> the latter preferred if it doesn't need to be modified
[00:11:08] <wild13> no it will never need to be changed
[00:11:42] <KittyCat> then make it a const reference
[00:12:31] <wild13> wow it worked XD
[00:12:35] <wild13> the entire audio manager
[00:13:09] <wild13> how would i go of deleting all the objects inside the map
[00:13:24] <wild13> i already use a iterator to go threw each object and call ->release on each one
[00:13:54] <KittyCat> i = audiomap.erase(i); (where i is the iterator to the current one)
[00:14:15] <KittyCat> make sure you *don't* do i++ after an erase like that, otherwise you'll skip one
[00:14:25] <wild13> i dont
[00:14:54] <KittyCat> even the for() loop
[00:15:01] <wild13> wait then how do i get each one
[00:15:27] <KittyCat> while(i != audiomap.end()) {
[00:15:37] <KittyCat>   i->second->release();
[00:15:45] <KittyCat>   i = audiomap.erase(i);
[00:15:47] <KittyCat> }
[00:15:47] <wild13> seperate loop?
[00:16:04] <wild13> sofor the release i shouldnt use a for loop
[00:16:10] <wild13> a while would work?
[00:17:18] <KittyCat> yeah, just like what I wrote
[00:17:45] <KittyCat> if you only want to delete a specific one:
[00:17:47] <wild13> i dont think you ment to put the i=
[00:17:58] <KittyCat> I did
[00:18:03] <wild13> it didnt workw ith it
[00:18:11] <wild13> audiomap.erase(i) worked
[00:18:25] <KittyCat> i = audiomap.erase(i) should work
[01:20:48] <wild13> kittycat do you know of any way that i could create the engine so no runtime would be needed
[01:20:51] <wild13> for windows
[01:22:01] <KittyCat> you'll need the openal runtimes to use openal
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[04:28:32] <wild13> hey everyone
[04:28:55] <KittyCat> hi
[04:29:01] <wild13> hows it going?
[04:29:18] <KittyCat> alright
[04:29:33] <wild13> working on anything?
[04:30:08] <KittyCat> not at the moment
[04:31:11] <angasule> The same thing we do every night, wild13- try to take over the world.
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[04:36:18] <wild13> mwhaha
[04:36:38] <wild13> i dont have to worry about messing with openal for a while unless someone finds a bug in my engine
[04:37:22] <wild13> what are you working on agasule
[04:38:05] <angasule> I just released a little Qt4 app to configure openal-soft
[04:38:14] <wild13> linky?
[04:38:40] <angasule> http://www.anduin.net/~angasule/
[04:40:10] <wild13> cool
[04:52:14] <wild13> you guys dont have much casual conversation in here
[04:53:34] <KittyCat> nah. the channel was actually pretty dead for a while, but its picked up some lately
[04:53:55] <wild13> ahh
[04:54:16] <wild13> what are you guys planning to do for the 4th of july
[04:54:49] <wild13> i belive the reason why the channel is dead is becuase its really hard to start using openal
[04:54:56] <wild13> and all refrences are ethier outdated or unusable
[04:55:28] <KittyCat> yeah. which is part of the reason I started openal soft
[04:55:39] <wild13> so everyone who is new to openal give up
[04:55:43] <wild13> o you started it?
[04:55:47] * wild13 bows
[04:56:06] <KittyCat> the linux version of openal was old and rather unuseable
[04:56:11] <wild13> agreed
[04:56:14] <wild13> cracky
[04:57:00] <wild13> we need to throw up a openal site were one can learn
[04:57:07] <wild13> how to really use it detailed
[04:57:19] <angasule> wild13: the 4th of july is a friday, I could never get the hang of fridays...
[04:57:32] <angasule> a wiki, yes
[04:57:50] <wild13> i got a webhost already and ill buy a domain if you guys will help me fill the wiki
[04:58:01] <wild13> i enjoy using openal from what kitty has taught me of it
[04:58:16] <angasule> hmm, speex is more popular than I thought
[04:58:37] <KittyCat> a wiki probably needs too much maintanence
[04:58:49] <KittyCat> keeping an eye on edits, spam bots, etc..
[04:58:59] <wild13> im in highschool and on summer
[04:59:06] <angasule> dunno
[04:59:08] <wild13> and all i do day and night is program
[04:59:15] <angasule> rss feeds of edits + login required help a lot
[04:59:20] <wild13> im stuck at home so i could probley handle it
[04:59:30] <wild13> i got my friend who could also assist us
[04:59:42] <wild13> i just need people who know a lot about openal a lot more then i know
[04:59:53] <angasule> that's not me :P
[05:01:32] <wild13> its almost impossible to find a good openal refrence
[05:01:37] <wild13> openal in itself needs a lot of work
[05:02:54] <KittyCat> I dunno, the openal reference and user guide is pretty good for getting into it
[05:03:28] <wild13> there good if you have a basic understanding of openal
[05:03:32] <wild13> but for those who know nothing
[05:03:37] <wild13> << how i came to you
[05:04:01] <KittyCat> freealut needs more work and documentation, too
[05:04:12] <KittyCat> better support for different formats, streaming, etc..
[05:04:51] <wild13> in my eyes it seems openal is dieing other then how its used in the game industry
[05:04:58] <wild13> and only a few companys use it
[05:06:12] <wild13> last update 06
[05:06:16] <KittyCat> it's pretty much the only choice for open source gaming with 3d sound, afaik
[05:06:31] <wild13> irrklang
[05:06:43] <angasule> fmod has a few nice features
[05:06:46] <wild13> but has a shitty licence
[05:06:48] <angasule> too bad it's closed
[05:06:53] <KittyCat> creative last updated their drivers summer '07. openal soft had a release not too long ago. not sure what osx's is doing..
[05:07:27] <wild13> fmod is nice
[05:08:00] <wild13> http://www.ambiera.com/irrklang/
[05:08:00] <KittyCat> closed source, though
[05:08:08] <KittyCat> and requires licensing for commercial use
[05:08:12] <wild13> my engine has everything but mp3 and wav support
[05:08:19] <wild13> but feature wise it dosnt come close
[05:08:30] <wild13> openal needs more sound effects
[05:09:32] <KittyCat> unfortunately effects isn't something I'm good with. though I did do a low-pass filter and reverb implementation
[05:09:57] <angasule> wild13: do you have any effects in mind?
[05:10:12] <wild13> matching those of irrklang would be a start
[05:10:17] <wild13> echo would be nice
[05:10:24] <KittyCat> part of the issue is the cpu processing needed. without hardware, it can be rather difficult to do when you want low latency
[05:11:16] <wild13> hmm
[05:12:22] <angasule> chorus, compressor, distortion, echo, flanger, gargle, and 3 others I'm not clear about
[05:12:46] <wild13> echo well you know what a echo is right
[05:12:58] <angasule> btw, irrklang only has those effects on DirectSound8 (which means Windows XP only)
[05:13:07] <wild13> yeah
[05:13:20] <wild13> i belive it uses the directx audio to pull the effects off
[05:13:38] <wild13> hence why if we could get the effects into openal or create a extention libary
[05:13:43] <wild13> it would be up there with fmod
[05:16:41] <KittyCat> openal can use th ose effects
[05:16:48] <KittyCat> either with the EAX or EFX extensions
[05:17:08] <KittyCat> but it depends on the hardware (and/or directsound) to support it
[05:17:41] <wild13> hmm
[05:19:14] <KittyCat> standard reverb and lowpass filters can be done with the software driver (and eaxreverb with creative's driver). but the rest depend on hardware
[05:20:05] <wild13> wonder how directsound pulls it off
[05:20:22] <KittyCat> hardware, most likely
[05:20:39] <wild13> works on any box though
[05:21:06] <wild13> so if we wanted to pull off effects we would have to utilize the hardware itself
[05:21:47] <angasule> umh
[05:22:20] <KittyCat> eax is proprietary, though. I don't know if anyone's figured out how the poke the hardware to m ake it do so. at least, not through ALSA or something
[05:22:58] <wild13> maybe oss?
[05:23:08] <angasule> I thought EFX was replacing EAX?
[05:23:32] <KittyCat> angasule, for openal, sure
[05:23:42] <KittyCat> but there's still no information on how to make the hardware do it
[05:24:33] <angasule> KittyCat: I've been meaning to talk to you about it, how about contacting asus about the xonar?
[05:25:18] <angasule> if they released the docs to make a driver, we'd have at least one card capable of hardware OpenAL on linux with free drivers
[05:25:45] <KittyCat> I think the best way to do it would be through ALSA. get the specs for it so someone can make an ALSA driver and expose the interface to apply effects
[05:26:01] <wild13> hmm
[05:26:11] <KittyCat> and so subdevices can have their sound properly positioned for 3d attenuation
[05:26:15] <wild13> wouldnt they have to install the alsa driver
[05:26:21] <wild13> over there current one
[05:26:36] <KittyCat> would hopefully be included with alsa, like the other drivers
[05:26:55] <angasule> but they haven't released the specs, I believe?
[05:27:17] <wild13> we could contanct them
[05:27:44] <angasule> yup
[05:28:04] <wild13> wouldn't that make it linux only?
[05:28:07] <angasule> we could get some muscle behind, though
[05:28:13] <angasule> linux, bsd
[05:28:29] <wild13> true
[05:28:34] <angasule> the windows driver already supports openal, I hope?
[05:29:28] <wild13> ment if we were to add effects
[05:30:26] <KittyCat> not if its done through the efx extension
[05:30:35] <KittyCat> of course, it would still rely on the hardware
[05:31:59] <wild13> hmm
[05:35:21] <wild13> alsa pokes at the hardware as it does right
[05:35:33] <wild13> someone whould have to code a driver that lets others poke at it
[05:35:41] <wild13> like you said right kitty
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[05:39:02] <wild13> what if we send the buffer threw a filiter
[05:39:03] <angasule> hmm
[05:39:06] <wild13> ont he software end?
[05:39:13] <angasule> looks like the xonar is doing all 3d in software? :(
[05:39:24] <wild13> whats xonar angasule?
[05:39:45] <angasule> a card by asus
[05:40:00] <KittyCat> wild13, doing it in software is what we're trying to avoid with using the hardware
[05:40:23] <wild13> i dont think it would take much proccessing time by using filters
[05:40:45] <KittyCat> since in the end you'd end up streaming each source to the card and flood the pci bus, ultimately ending with worse performance than doing it all in software
[05:41:45] <angasule> hmm, is that so for PCIe?
[05:42:32] <KittyCat> I don't know, but at that point you might as well do it all in software
[05:42:43] <KittyCat> well..
[05:43:17] <KittyCat> *maybe* if the card can do the "3d positioning" and good quality resampling
[05:43:39] <angasule> and it's probably a PITA anyway
[05:45:05] <wild13> hmm so difficult to do something that shouldnt be
[05:49:36] <wild13> googling around and the most common debates on forusm if openal is dead or not
[05:50:47] <KittyCat> on linux, it was for a bit
[05:51:13] <KittyCat> some apps were starting to drop it. but I hope they reconsider now
[05:52:32] <wild13> hmm
[05:52:48] <wild13> on the gamedev side most indie developers dont wanna use openal becuase of its lack of effects
[05:52:59] <wild13> most go the irrklang,fmod,or bass route
[05:53:55] <wild13> and the big time companys that do use openal create there audio file with the effect already in it
[05:54:44] <wild13> problem with that is lets say i want distortion to happen when i have a huge explosion near the characters eqar
[05:54:44] <KittyCat> yeah. hardware effects seem to be dying. creative seems to be the only one that does it
[05:54:47] <wild13> ear*
[05:55:02] <KittyCat> though I'd blame creative for that, given their dubious practices
[05:57:55] <wild13> man
[06:01:53] <wild13> if we could figure out a way to add effects without killing the soundcard or the proccessing time
[06:01:56] <wild13> we would be good
[06:04:16] <angasule> good night :)
[06:04:37] <wild13> night
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[20:49:12] <wild13> kittykat you here?
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[21:14:04] <wild13> hi
[21:16:51] <Halifax> Hey wild13.
[21:17:00] <Halifax> wild13 == wildrj?
[21:17:02] <wild13> << is wildrj
[21:17:07] <Halifax> Yup, haha.
[21:17:21] <Halifax> I didn't know you hung out in this channel until your post.
[21:17:38] <wild13> oo yeah kittykat is the one who taught me all i know about openal
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[21:18:10] <Halifax> Yeah, he's cool. He helped me a lot to.
[21:18:27] <Halifax> Hey, about that segfault bug, why does it do that? You don't think it can be fixed?
[21:20:40] <wild13> the one that happens if you dont create a object first?
[21:20:50] <Halifax> Yeah.
[21:20:51] <wild13> i can make a quick fix
[21:21:12] <wild13> using a bool lean that if its false ->update wont do anything i think ill do that
[21:21:43] <wild13> i already fixed 3 others. 1.streaming was broke inside and outside of the audio manager
[21:21:57] <wild13> 2. the streaming file loader wansnt working
[21:22:05] <wild13> 3. i never gave acess to streaming fromt he audio manager
[21:22:26] <wild13> 4 bugs
[21:22:28] <Halifax> Ah, alright.
[21:22:49] <wild13> also there was a for loop embeded into the update class that capped it speed and when used inside the irrlicht while loop messed up a lot of things took that out
[21:24:04] <Halifax> Hey well I have to leave for a little bit, I'll be back on later. And I hope you can sort those bugs.
[21:24:16] <Halifax> Keep up the good work, wild13. (And KittyCat)
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[22:05:24] <wild13> wb
[22:14:57] <angasule> thanks
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[23:10:52] <angasule> KittyCat: how is openal-soft's capture working these days?
[23:11:23] <KittyCat> it should work fine. just don't expect to get huge capture buffers
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