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[00:32:22] <mpbot> snc is Jeremy and maintainer of kde-l10n-ar, py27-sqlite, py27-shapely, and mgzip (of 169 total) and is in Boston; local time is Thu 18:36 EDT
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[00:55:15] <snc> jmr_mp: does the /etc/hosts files in lion still work, do you know?
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[01:02:09] <jmr_mp> snc: no idea
[01:02:33] <snc> alrighty
[01:02:53] <WantSBCL> SBCL is failing to build right away
[01:03:06] <WantSBCL> error:build Target org.macports.build returned: can't read "host_lisp": no such variable
[01:03:21] <snc> just copy/paste the "darwin10" block as "darwin11"
[01:04:03] <WantSBCL> wow thats simple enough
[01:04:13] <WantSBCL> thanks
[01:04:13] <jmr_mp> https://trac.macports.org/query?status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&order=priority&port=%7Esbcl
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[01:05:32] <WantSBCL> oh does +threads finally work too?
[01:06:05] <dijital1> 2.0.0 works under Lion?
[01:06:29] <snc> yup, 2.0.0 works under lion
[01:06:38] <snc> wantsbcl: as for threads, i forget which of the two variants didn't work
[01:06:42] <snc> there was definitely one that did not
[01:08:16] <WantSBCL> clisp gets a build error too :-/
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[01:22:09] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80944 /trunk/dports/python/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
[01:22:09] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80944
[01:22:09] <CIA-46> py*-curl: license
[01:23:07] * neverpanic is always amazed how many people apparently use lisp
[01:23:19] <neverpanic> (apart from the emacs guys, who have no choice)
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[01:24:42] <dports> emacs lisp is not even a particularly good Lisp...
[01:26:35] <neverpanic> or maybe it's just me noticing the guy building sbcl for $random_uncommon_architectures for debian at my university ;)
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[01:27:07] <neverpanic> crtxc: can you link me to your bug-report# again?
[01:27:31] <crtxc> hey neverpanic, how are you?  Your still here.
[01:27:44] <crtxc> oh sure obsolely
[01:28:13] <neverpanic> crtxc: yeah, still trying to fix my lion problem. But I'm still awake, not awake again like you probably are ;)
[01:28:29] <crtxc> :)
[01:28:39] <crtxc> absolutely
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[01:31:38] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80945 /trunk/dports/python/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
[01:31:38] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80945
[01:31:38] <CIA-46> py*-crypto: license
[01:31:45] <crtxc> here ya go; https://trac.macports.org/ticket/27858.  I filed my own report, but I got spanked for duplicating, so I appended to the report already made.  My mess begins after the first entry.
[01:31:58] <WantSBCL> snc it works? why isnt the portfile updated with that fix
[01:32:29] <snc> we can do that; i remember a certain bit of rage about things not being tested.
[01:32:56] <crtxc> neverpanic: how are you doing with your disc problem?
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[01:33:40] <neverpanic> crtxc: Have given up, backing up everything, going to format.
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[01:33:54] <WantSBCL> thanks again for your help. bye
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[01:35:45] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80946 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-params-check/Portfile:
[01:35:45] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80946
[01:35:45] <CIA-46> p5-params-check: license
[01:36:23] <crtxc> Ok.  Whenever I install a fresh I always backup everything and fresh install.  I am pretty persnickety about clean installs.
[01:36:58] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80947 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-module-load-conditional/Portfile:
[01:36:58] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80947
[01:36:58] <CIA-46> p5-module-load-conditional: license
[01:37:23] <crtxc> You might be better off in the log run.  Maybe lion change some of its design in Lion.
[01:38:06] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80948 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-extutils-parsexs/Portfile:
[01:38:06] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80948
[01:38:06] <CIA-46> p5-extutils-parsexs: license
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[01:40:55] <neverpanic> unfortunately I even have problems doing that.
[01:41:11] <ahammond> I'm trying to install MacPorts on Lion. I downloaded the latest .dmg and it failed, complaining about missing Xcode. Installed Xcode from AppStore, still complains about missing Xcode or installed with UNIX Development or Command Line Support deselected. Help?
[01:41:16] <neverpanic> although neither the install log nor the error message tells me what's wrong
[01:43:26] <crtxc> neverpanic: oh.  What is your scenario again?  I remember you saying something about lynx and ssh?
[01:44:07] <neverpanic> broken filesystem on snow leopard disk, stuck in lion installer (which has a copy of Safari ;))
[01:44:15] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80949 /trunk/dports/textproc/docbook-xml-4.5/Portfile:
[01:44:15] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80949
[01:44:15] <CIA-46> docbook-xml-4.5: license
[01:45:13] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80950 /trunk/dports/textproc/docbook-xml-4.3/Portfile:
[01:45:13] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80950
[01:45:13] <CIA-46> docbook-xml-4.3: license
[01:45:58] <crtxc> Oh.  Maybe if you use a live disc like riplinux first, format the drive in whatever format Mac can read, then, with diskutility format it to HFS+ (does Lion use HFS+?)
[01:46:27] <fried1> neverpanic: compile from source?
[01:46:32] <geekosaur> it does
[01:46:33] <crtxc> Of course backup everything first
[01:46:43] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80951 /trunk/dports/textproc/docbook-xml-4.4/Portfile:
[01:46:44] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80951
[01:46:44] <CIA-46> docbook-xml-4.4: license
[01:46:54] <neverpanic> crtxc: I can format using Disk Utility from the installer
[01:47:04] <neverpanic> crtxc: backup is what I'm doing
[01:47:04] <crtxc> Ok
[01:47:13] <neverpanic> fried1: compile what? OS X?
[01:47:14] <crtxc> Ok :)
[01:47:25] <neverpanic> fried1: especially without Developer Tools? :P
[01:47:26] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80952 /trunk/dports/textproc/docbook-xml-4.2/Portfile:
[01:47:26] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80952
[01:47:26] <CIA-46> docbook-xml-4.2: license
[01:47:53] <fried1> neverpanic: doh, looked at wrong post 8-)
[01:47:58] <geekosaur> ahammond: did you install it fully?  what you get from the App Store is an instaler that has to be run to get the real Xcode installed
[01:48:15] <neverpanic> !port info libtorrent-rasterbar
[01:48:16] <mpbot> libtorrent-rasterbar @0.15.6 (net)
[01:48:16] <mpbot> Description:          A C++ bittorrent library designed to run on anything from embedded systems to large scale seed servers. It comes with python bindings and detailed documentation.
[01:48:16] <mpbot> Homepage:             http://www.rasterbar.com/products/libtorrent/
[01:48:16] <mpbot> Build Dependencies:   pkgconfig
[01:48:16] <mpbot> Library Dependencies: python26, libgeoip, openssl
[01:48:17] <mpbot> Platforms:            darwin
[01:48:19] <mpbot> License:              unknown
[01:48:21] <mpbot> Maintainers:          devans at macports dot org, openmaintainer at macports dot org
[01:48:23] <ahammond> Aaaaaaah, thanks. Where do I find the installer?
[01:48:38] <jmr_mp> ahammond: your applications folder
[01:48:57] <geekosaur> I presume the Applications folder (I haven't actually done it yet, no am I jumping on Lion; I'm kinda badly in flux here)
[01:48:59] <jmr_mp> and yes, that's a blatant violation of the app store rules
[01:49:08] <geekosaur> yep
[01:49:37] <ahammond> thanks all!
[01:49:55] <crtxc> neverpanic: I was wondering do you program at all?
[01:50:03] <geekosaur> (nor macports 2.0 final, since the devel drive is sitting in the back of my car)
[01:51:03] <neverpanic> crtxc: I'm Google Summer of Code student with MacPorts this year
[01:51:09] <neverpanic> So, yes, I do.
[01:51:43] <CIA-46> macsforever2000 at macports dot org * r80953 /trunk/dports/audio/pianobar/Portfile:
[01:51:43] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80953
[01:51:43] <CIA-46> pianobar: Update to version 2011.07.09. (#30098)
[01:53:14] <crtxc> Fantastic.  I thought it would be good to trying to learn C++.  I started about 4 months ago.  Some people in another channel said that C++ was idiotic and that C was the only way to go; that I wasted my time learning the c++ I learned.  What are your thoughts?
[01:53:20] <neverpanic> crtxc: Did you add the --with-boost-libdir switch to the command line only, or did you also try adding it to the portfile?
[01:54:01] <neverpanic> crtxc: C++ is quite hard for starters and there are a lot more pityfalls in C++
[01:54:26] <neverpanic> but for larger projects I welcome C++ (being object oriented and having a STL)
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[01:54:53] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80954 /trunk/dports/x11/xorg-cf-files/Portfile:
[01:54:53] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80954
[01:54:53] <CIA-46> xorg-cf-files: license
[01:55:52] <neverpanic> Because from my POV is seems #27858 should have been commited long ago
[01:56:04] <neverpanic> But I won't do it before I can test it
[01:56:27] <crtxc> neverpanic: I tried both.  The port file, located at /opt/local/var/macports/sources/rsync.macports.org/release/ports/net/libtorrent-rasterbar/Portfile, and at the command line as a swithch with sudo port install.
[01:56:54] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80955 /trunk/dports/ruby/rb-rest-client/Portfile:
[01:56:54] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80955
[01:56:54] <CIA-46> rb-rest-client: license
[01:57:16] <crtxc> Both methods resulted in the said error.
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[01:58:23] <neverpanic> Btw, has anyone accomodated to Lion's scrolling yet? ;)
[01:58:44] <snc> I've become acclimated to it.
[01:58:54] <snc> pretty easy; not like a video game where it forever ruins your game
[01:59:10] <fried1> snc: agreed, especially if you have iOS devices.
[01:59:35] <snc> i don't have, nor ever have had, an iOS device
[01:59:46] <jmr_mp> are you referring to the backwards scrolling or the disappearing scroll bars?
[01:59:54] <snc> the backwards scrolling
[01:59:56] <jmr_mp> you can turn both off
[02:00:04] <snc> right but it's just as easy to get use to
[02:00:07] <snc> IMO
[02:00:24] <jmr_mp> I really hate the scroll bars appearing and covering up part of the content though
[02:00:34] <neverpanic> yeah, you _can_ turn both off, but the question is do you want to?
[02:00:47] <neverpanic> also: Will you be able to turn that off in Lion+1?
[02:01:20] <neverpanic> I like it when using the touchpad, but I'd rather have the mousewheel behave windows-like.
[02:01:29] <neverpanic> But I guess that's impossible to set up?
[02:01:34] <jmr_mp> probably
[02:02:04] <crtxc> In Lion, can you use a mouse in the terminal.app?
[02:02:14] <CIA-46> dports at macports dot org * r80956 /users/dports/ports/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[02:02:14] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80956
[02:02:14] <CIA-46> texlive portgroup: create a texlive.mktexlsr function that runs
[02:02:14] <CIA-46> `mktexlsr`, and also runs `mtxrun --generate` (for ConTeXt) if it's
[02:02:14] <CIA-46> installed.
[02:02:15] <CIA-46> Add texlive.use_mktexlsr option (on by default) to control whether to
[02:02:15] <CIA-46> run mktexlsr during post-activate. texlive-documentation-base needs to
[02:02:17] <jmr_mp> as much as you can in 10.6
[02:02:44] <neverpanic> Terminal.app in Lion has 256-color support. About time.
[02:02:55] <neverpanic> Not sure if I'm going to switch back from iTerm though
[02:03:00] <crtxc> Ok.  I am on 10.5 still.
[02:03:42] <crtxc> You use iterm neverpanic?  Better than terminal.app?
[02:03:43] <jmr_mp> 10.6 doesn't have any more mouse support in Terminal than 10.5, that I'm aware of
[02:04:13] <neverpanic> crtxc: yes, I use iTerm, because I want 256 colors in my terminal, especially in vim
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[02:04:21] <crtxc> I am mostly in screen anyways.  Except when I am using elinks.  Elinks colours are weird in screen.
[02:04:48] <neverpanic> I've configured screen to support 256 colors, too
[02:04:55] <neverpanic> It only breaks when using screen in screen
[02:05:08] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80957 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-perl-ostype/Portfile:
[02:05:08] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80957
[02:05:08] <CIA-46> p5-perl-ostype: license
[02:05:10] <neverpanic> But I might be switching to tmux soon
[02:05:31] <crtxc> screen with 256?  Are you a wizard ;)
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[02:06:14] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80958 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-module-metadata/Portfile:
[02:06:15] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80958
[02:06:15] <CIA-46> p5-module-metadata: license
[02:06:29] <CIA-46> dports at macports dot org * r80959 /users/dports/ports/tex/texlive-context/Portfile:
[02:06:29] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80959
[02:06:29] <CIA-46> texlive-context: add texlive-latex dependency back; turns out we do
[02:06:29] <CIA-46> need it because it contains mptopdf.
[02:06:44] <neverpanic> It looks a lot like wizardry, but it is indeed possible
[02:06:55] <neverpanic> Don't ask my why it works, though. I seriously don't know.
[02:07:18] <neverpanic> ask me**
[02:07:42] <crtxc> :)
[02:08:37] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80960 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-module-corelist/Portfile:
[02:08:38] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80960
[02:08:38] <CIA-46> p5-module-corelist: license
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[02:10:25] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80961 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-ipc-cmd/Portfile:
[02:10:25] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80961
[02:10:25] <CIA-46> p5-ipc-cmd: license
[02:10:34] <neverpanic> crtxc: http://pbot.rmdir.de/7d61bcab67d90977b7e48101aa61e1e3 <- my .screenrc in case you want to give it a try
[02:11:20] <crtxc> neverpanic: ty for that neverpanic. :)
[02:11:48] <dports> I switched to tmux largely out of a desire not to look at my .screenrc anymore. It was full of stuff like that.
[02:12:03] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80962 /trunk/dports/perl/p5-cpan-meta-yaml/Portfile:
[02:12:03] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80962
[02:12:03] <CIA-46> p5-cpan-meta-yaml: license
[02:13:41] <crtxc> I will try it as soon as I sine out.  I am in screen right now :); unless, I can edit screenrc without closing.  Can I do that?  Or does screen read its .rc file at boot only?
[02:14:17] <neverpanic> you can edit it, it just won't be read unless you restart your screen
[02:15:25] <crtxc> :) I will do it later then.
[02:19:42] <crtxc> neverpanic, that is a really nice pastebin.  I never would have found that.  It should be number one on google search.  So clean and simple.
[02:20:32] <neverpanic> crtxc: if you want something as simple as that you need to set it up yourself (which is what somebody at my university did)
[02:20:45] <neverpanic> feel free to use it, but remember posts are only kept for a couple of days
[02:21:24] <crtxc> Thank you.  Ya  it doesn't have all the bells but it is nice and clean.
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[02:24:06] <crtxc> Can I ask what your studying at University?
[02:24:18] <neverpanic> computer science
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[02:25:21] <crtxc> Nice
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[02:31:53] <crtxc> I wonder why apple's terminal app is less appealing than an independent person like the person that made iTerm, when Apple is so big and iTerm is so little?
[02:37:33] <neverpanic> I wonder why Microsoft Office is less appealing than an independent developer groups like the one that made OpenOffice, when Microsoft is so big, and the OpenOffice group is so small?
[02:37:41] <neverpanic> basically the same question
[02:37:52] <neverpanic> and the answer probably is: different use-cases, requirements, etc.
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[02:58:13] <crtxc> Ya, ic.
[02:59:56] <crtxc> I don't know how the development machine works.  I was just curious.
[03:00:54] <crtxc> neverpanic, how is your install coming along?
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[03:02:49] <jmr_mp> "leverage installed base to perpetuate vendor lock-in" isn't a requirement designed for end user appeal
[03:05:34] <crtxc> ?^
[03:06:06] <jmr_mp> that's one of the main requirements for new MS Office releases
[03:11:23] <crtxc> I understand.  Yes.  All the vendors use this technique.  No?
[03:12:58] <neverpanic> crtxc: progressing slowly, but steady.
[03:13:15] <neverpanic> Got everything backed up, now debugging why it won't install to a blank disk
[03:14:30] <crtxc> good neverpanic.  Does Diskutility say your disk is good?  Can it verify the disc?
[03:14:55] <neverpanic> It's a new disk. It's find (and yes it did verify fine)
[03:15:04] <neverpanic> it's fine**
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[03:18:02] <crtxc> Sorry I am not helpful.  That is really weird.  The only thing I ever experience similar to this is writing to DVD's.
[03:18:29] <neverpanic> It's trying to search for the install data at a location that doesn't exist
[03:18:42] <neverpanic> Now I need to find out how to fix this
[03:19:10] <crtxc> Oh your actual install DVD is corrupt?
[03:20:54] <neverpanic> I don't think it's on the DVD
[03:21:15] <neverpanic> but the installer reads some path from somewhere and tries to open it
[03:21:26] <neverpanic> The DVD is only the dmg from within the Lion installer
[03:25:28] <crtxc> :/
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[03:34:49] <neverpanic> and there it is: install-product-urlx-osproduct://B3B05A84-D629-3D48-8AA4-8DCD490CFC51/Mac%20OS%20X%20Install%20Data
[03:34:53] <neverpanic> nvram -p
[03:35:04] <neverpanic> and that UUID doesn't exist
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[03:37:17] <crtxc> :/
[03:41:33] <neverpanic> deleting that entry fixed it, installing now. finally.
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[03:48:09] <crtxc> good job.  Were was that "entry" anyways.
[03:52:46] <crtxc> Were was it physically
[03:53:00] <crtxc> physically located
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[04:31:31] <crtxc> neverpanic, now you can sleep easy.
[04:37:16] <neverpanic> crtxc: non-volatile ram, used by OS X to store such things as startup volume
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[04:38:14] <crtxc> can you access non-volatile ram like any other disk?  How did you mount it to delete the offending entry?
[04:38:31] <pogma> man nvram
[04:38:42] <crtxc> ty pogma
[04:38:52] <crtxc> ty neverpanic
[04:41:01] <crtxc> Ok, there it is nvram -d my-variable
[04:41:54] <neverpanic> that's what I did
[04:42:14] <crtxc> very clever.  Good job. :)
[04:42:37] <crtxc> I didn't know we had that tool.  Computers are fun.
[04:43:15] <crtxc> My ignorance is not.
[04:43:23] <crtxc> :)
[04:43:26] <neverpanic> just be careful, you can easily fuck up your mac with this tool
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[04:44:01] <neverpanic> erm. that should probably have been worded differently.
[04:44:27] <crtxc> Yes.  I wouldn't ever use it unless I was in a situation like you were and I knew with certainty that it's useage would fix the problem.
[04:44:44] <crtxc> It is just the idea that is cool.
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[04:49:55] <mpbot> ToHellWithGA is Ryan Stonecipher (rmstonecipher) and maintainer of twolame, gstreamer, vorbis-tools, and libcue (of 31 total) and is in Columbia, MO; local time is Thu 21:54 CDT
[04:50:13] <ToHellWithGA> have any of y'all had trouble installing 2.0.0?
[04:50:19] <ToHellWithGA> s/installing/selfupdating to/
[04:50:36] <ToHellWithGA> it's whinging at me about /lib/cpp
[04:52:53] <jmr_mp> WFM
[04:53:13] <jmr_mp> other people have mentioned that happening when building ports on lion
[04:53:35] <jmr_mp> do you have he normal dev tools stuff in /usr/bin?
[04:54:53] <ToHellWithGA> i don't have lion
[04:55:11] <ToHellWithGA> i would assume the dev tools xcode 3 stuff landed in the default location
[04:55:31] <ToHellWithGA> do you have lion, josh?
[04:55:42] <ToHellWithGA> i'm trying to figure out if i will have to buy xcode as well
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[05:00:58] <jmr_mp> ToHellWithGA: 4.1 is free
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[05:02:20] <ToHellWithGA> that's better then
[05:02:42] <ToHellWithGA> i guess i can blow $30 on a bunch of itouch-esque features that i don't intend to use
[05:04:01] <ToHellWithGA> my trackpad could detect all of the multi-touch gestures in linux, but apple never enabled them for my old macbook in os x
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[05:06:09] <ToHellWithGA> is face time free with lion?
[05:07:20] <jmr_mp> yes
[05:08:20] <ToHellWithGA> i'm a skype nerd but face time is more mainstream
[05:08:29] <ToHellWithGA> easier for the kids :)
[05:09:21] <jmr_mp> I still wonder why it isn't just an enhancement for iChat
[05:09:49] <ToHellWithGA> after using gaim i thought ichat was pretty weak
[05:10:17] <jmr_mp> sure, I just mean Apple already had a video chat app
[05:10:21] <ToHellWithGA> then again, i guess i just dated myself with that statement
[05:10:32] <ToHellWithGA> it hasn't been called "gaim" for years lol
[05:11:02] <jmr_mp> don't worry, I still have an ICQ account
[05:11:12] <ToHellWithGA> perhaps they were trying to do exactly one thing as well as possible with each program rather than having multifunction programs
[05:11:25] <ToHellWithGA> i forgot my ICQ number a long time ago
[05:11:36] <ToHellWithGA> i wish i could remember it XD
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[06:30:49] <ceej> hey, anyone around?
[06:32:09] <ceej> I just run upgrade outdated (you shouldn't do it) now everything is broken :/ (on lion) https://gist.github.com/990c4bebcd0a841345a4
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[06:44:56] <Tenacious_Techhu> Hello, I have some stupid questions.
[06:45:15] <Tenacious_Techhu> Anyone here to answer them?
[06:45:25] <jmr_mp> do you accept stupid answers?
[06:45:47] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well, I prefer my stupid answers to either be correct or humorous, but yes, I accept those.
[06:46:04] <uebera||> great
[06:46:12] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K....
[06:46:33] <uebera||> 42. yw.
[06:46:35] <Tenacious_Techhu> Is MacPorts just a way of resolving Linux dependencies that OS X doesn?t solve on its own?
[06:46:55] <jmr_mp> for some definition of "Linux dependencies", I guess
[06:47:14] <Tenacious_Techhu> Does it do anything besides that?
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[06:47:42] <jmr_mp> again, for some definition of "resolving dependencies", I guess not
[06:48:11] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., well, I was wondering what it would take for a given piece of Linux software to run on Mac OS X.
[06:48:21] <jmr_mp> varies wildly
[06:48:28] <Tenacious_Techhu> The most obvious thing is that all the Linux dependencies have to be satisfied somehow, right?
[06:48:57] <jmr_mp> sure, or they wouldn't be dependencies
[06:49:26] <Tenacious_Techhu> So is Mac Ports just a way to resolve those dependencies, or is there more to it than that?
[06:50:08] <jmr_mp> I don't know, do you count building software as more?
[06:50:32] <Tenacious_Techhu> It depends on whether it actually NEEDS to be built, or if it?s only doing it out of open-source habit.
[06:50:57] <jmr_mp> it needs to be built sometime, that's where binaries come from
[06:51:01] <Tenacious_Techhu> Personally, I think the notion of having end-users compiling things is silly, but that?s just me.
[06:51:58] <Tenacious_Techhu> Anyway, here?s what I?m looking at...
[06:52:33] <Tenacious_Techhu> There?s some embedded development kit stuff with Linux versions out there that I?d like to run from my Mac.
[06:52:33] <jmr_mp> if you're asking if macports automatically changes use of, say, linux-specific syscalls into Mac OS X compatible ones, no, it doesn't
[06:53:01] <Tenacious_Techhu> Ah.
[06:53:02] <jmr_mp> it's "ports" in the sense of "freebsd ports"
[06:53:15] <livinded> only easier to use
[06:53:38] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well, now I?m a bit confused. So you aren?t resolving the dependencies then?
[06:53:46] <jmr_mp> freebsd ports does that
[06:54:03] <Tenacious_Techhu> Still confused.
[06:54:03] <livinded> jmr_mp: now that os x ships git with xcode any chance of moving away from svn and rsync?
[06:55:09] <jmr_mp> a necessary condition for that to happen would be all our supported platforms shipping git
[06:55:20] <livinded> will tiger still be supported?
[06:55:42] <jmr_mp> tiger has been unsupported since snow leopard shipped
[06:55:45] <livinded> xcode 4+ all ships with git I believe
[06:56:01] <livinded> and it's easily installable if you happen to still use 3.x
[06:56:22] <Tenacious_Techhu> Is there going to be a free version of XCode 4, or are they still charging for that?
[06:56:25] <jmr_mp> Tenacious_Techhu: I'm confused by your confusion
[06:56:30] <livinded> 4.1 is free if you use Lion
[06:56:31] <jmr_mp> 4.1 is free
[06:56:43] <jmr_mp> it's free if you don't use Lion, you just can't run it :P
[06:56:46] <livinded> 4.x is only paid if you use snow leopard or leopard
[06:57:19] <livinded> glad that apple is really killing off powerpc hardware
[06:57:31] <livinded> and 32bit
[06:57:40] <Tenacious_Techhu> It saddens me, but it?s necessary.
[06:57:49] <Tenacious_Techhu> *really likes PowerPC chips
[06:58:06] <Tenacious_Techhu> All 3 Mars Rovers used PowerPC...
[06:58:08] <livinded> they switched to intel in what, 2001?
[06:58:12] <Tenacious_Techhu> Plus some other Nasa stuff.
[06:58:28] <livinded> I think it's time for an upgrade if you're still using hardware from then
[06:58:30] <Tenacious_Techhu> That doesn?t mean the Intel chips are better. :P
[06:58:39] <jmr_mp> well, most commercial app developers will tell you they have to target 10.5 still to make money
[06:58:40] <Tenacious_Techhu> No, I?m not, I just miss ?em. :)
[06:59:03] <Tenacious_Techhu> I just wish we were using PowerPC chips that were beating the snot out of Intel chips.
[06:59:08] <Tenacious_Techhu> Or hell, at least AMD chps. :P
[06:59:20] <Tenacious_Techhu> Moving on, if you would...
[06:59:21] <livinded> now if only apple would tell adobe to fix their fucking software to support case-sensitive filesystems and disable case-insensitivity I would be reasonably happy
[06:59:32] <Tenacious_Techhu> Oh yeah, here here...
[06:59:41] <livinded> I honestly don't understand why anyway would write software that depends on case-insensitivity
[06:59:47] <livinded> anyone*
[06:59:53] <Tenacious_Techhu> Agreed.
[07:00:03] <Tenacious_Techhu> But uh... back to my problem, if you don?t mind... ^_^;
[07:00:10] <livinded> what's your problem?
[07:00:17] <Tenacious_Techhu> The dependencies thing.
[07:00:24] <livinded> what about it? macports resolves them for you
[07:00:46] <Tenacious_Techhu> The way I see it, unless I?m missing something, so long as all the dependencies are resolved, nothing about the original software needs to change, right?
[07:00:58] <livinded> what are you changing?
[07:01:06] <jmr_mp> sure, but we don't have a port for "Linux kernel"
[07:01:34] <jmr_mp> or glibc for that matter
[07:01:38] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well yes, but the same software runs on OS X as on Linux all the time, doesn?t it?
[07:02:02] <livinded> assuming it's not linux dependent and you build it on os x it does
[07:02:22] <livinded> os x for all intents and purposes is a severely hacked up FreeBSD
[07:02:41] <livinded> with a bunch of mach stuff that you probably will never notice unless you're doing fun stuff
[07:02:41] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yes, that I get. What is so different that it has to be built separately?
[07:02:49] <livinded> os x doesn't support ELF
[07:02:59] <livinded> it wont run FreeBSD binaries
[07:03:25] <jmr_mp> anything that depends on /proc is problematic, as one example pulled out of the air
[07:03:27] <Tenacious_Techhu> And ELF is more or less the Linux equivalent to EXEs?
[07:03:33] <livinded> the syscalls are mostly the same. For example, if you know anything about writing exploits, FreeBSD shellcode will generally work on os x
[07:04:05] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: the windows executable file format is COFF
[07:04:19] <livinded> or was
[07:04:35] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., lost again. :)
[07:04:48] <livinded> ELF is the executable format that virtually all open source operating systems use
[07:04:52] <Tenacious_Techhu> *has tried to figure out ELFs before, with no such luck*
[07:05:11] <Tenacious_Techhu> Could you be more descriptive, please?
[07:05:14] <livinded> it stores the machine code, linking information, and all other information needed to load a binary into memory and begin execution
[07:05:42] <Tenacious_Techhu> Is that different than the file format for an executable?
[07:05:43] <livinded> os x uses something called Mach-O which is actually fairly similar to ELF in a lot of aspects, but is different
[07:05:46] <CIA-46> fotanus at macports dot org * r80963 /branches/gsoc11-post-destroot/base/src/ (pextlib1.0/macho.c port1.0/portcheckdestroot.tcl):
[07:05:46] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80963
[07:05:46] <CIA-46> Now macho.c functions responds to non-binary files
[07:05:46] <CIA-46> this is needed in order to skip non binary files.
[07:05:46] <CIA-46> also, did some code cleanup
[07:05:57] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yeah, looked that up too, still don?t get it.
[07:06:34] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: so when you have an executable that's compiled to machine code (the binary data that a cpu runs) it needs to be stored in a file format that the kernel can load
[07:07:11] <Tenacious_Techhu> And isn?t that an EXE on Windows? Or is that just an equivalent to a bundle?
[07:07:16] <livinded> there are all kinds of things that need to be known by the kernel in order to execute the code. The file format includes all that information which tells the loader (program responsible for making an executable runable) how to do what it needs to do
[07:07:26] <livinded> ya, it's like an exe on windows
[07:07:35] <livinded> a bundle on os x is just a directory with files in it
[07:07:45] <livinded> right click on one and hit inspect contents
[07:08:20] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., so the Mach-O file is somewhere in the bundle, and that has all the code in it?
[07:08:22] <jmr_mp> technically you could use raw binary images and just clag them into RAM, if you didn't want to do anything clever like dynamic linking
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[07:08:38] <livinded> jmr_mp: ya, but generally speaking
[07:08:45] <livinded> and trying to avoid being confusing :D
[07:08:49] <jmr_mp> :)
[07:08:59] <Tenacious_Techhu> No, clag I understand.
[07:09:08] <Tenacious_Techhu> I come from a more embedded-development side of things.
[07:09:31] <Tenacious_Techhu> Hence, why getting my tools running on OS X is important to me.
[07:09:34] <livinded> so you know how you flash your code onto the chip?
[07:09:46] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yup.
[07:09:51] <jmr_mp> yeah, I did that once for some slugs
[07:09:57] <livinded> you don't do that on normal computers
[07:10:04] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yes, I figured.
[07:10:12] <Tenacious_Techhu> I was just confused as to how it all works out.
[07:10:24] <jmr_mp> DOS was pretty close though
[07:10:26] <livinded> if you have like 15-20 minutes I can give you a short lecture on loading files
[07:10:29] <Tenacious_Techhu> Not something they teach in Computer Science, sadly.
[07:10:45] <Tenacious_Techhu> They need to quit with the ?Computer Science? and get into ?Computer Engineering?.
[07:11:04] <jmr_mp> that's my degree
[07:11:14] <livinded> I quite CS and changed to philosophy
[07:11:18] <livinded> CS was boring
[07:11:23] <livinded> quit*
[07:11:35] <Tenacious_Techhu> These days, ?Computer Science? is stuff like Quantum Computers and DNA computers and the like. :P
[07:12:00] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: no, most CS programs are just Software Engineer factories
[07:12:07] <livinded> and not even good ones
[07:12:18] <Tenacious_Techhu> I know, but they?re doing it wrong because it?s not an engineering program.
[07:12:25] <jmr_mp> unless you mean that's what comp sci *should* be
[07:12:30] <Tenacious_Techhu> They live too much in the theoretical.
[07:12:42] <Tenacious_Techhu> And there should be a place for that, and Computer Science is it...
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[07:12:54] <Tenacious_Techhu> But engineering for computers is not the same thing.
[07:12:56] <jmr_mp> Software Engineering was a different program again at my Uni
[07:13:15] <Tenacious_Techhu> And I feel sad for anyone thinking that they?ll learn about OpenGL in a computer science class.
[07:13:30] <livinded> anyway. For the most part when you want to execute a file on a system the file will be mapped into swap space/virtual memory. Then then the loader will go through, figure out which dynamic libraries need to be loaded, load in all supporting code, copy the sections into memory that need to be used, and then begin execution
[07:14:13] <Tenacious_Techhu> But it will copy the ELF on Linux, and the Mach-O on OS X.
[07:14:25] <livinded> none of that information is loaded
[07:14:31] <Tenacious_Techhu> So no matter what, OS X can?t run a Linux binary that way.
[07:14:33] <jmr_mp> not exactly copy
[07:14:54] <Tenacious_Techhu> Sorry, that isn?t loaded?
[07:14:56] <livinded> Mach-O and ELF are only there for the loader to read to tell what it has to do in order to execute the file
[07:15:01] <jmr_mp> map in some parts laid out based on the other info
[07:15:04] <Tenacious_Techhu> Ah.
[07:15:11] <Tenacious_Techhu> So they just dictate how the loading is done.
[07:15:22] <jmr_mp> and also contain the actual code and data
[07:15:30] <CIA-46> ryandesign at macports dot org * r80964 /trunk/dports/graphics/GraphicsMagick/Portfile:
[07:15:30] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80964
[07:15:30] <CIA-46> GraphicsMagick: apparently fix build on Lion; see #30049
[07:15:31] <livinded> the loader will map the actual data and code (which are really the same thing) into memory as it's needed
[07:16:02] <Tenacious_Techhu> Ah. So it contains the instructions on what to load, and the material to be loaded, but the instructions on what to load aren?t loaded themselves.
[07:16:04] <livinded> I don't know how much you know about virtual memory and computer design
[07:16:12] <livinded> but that's more or less what's going on
[07:16:19] <Tenacious_Techhu> Virtual Memory I understand.
[07:16:24] <Tenacious_Techhu> And hardware.
[07:16:36] <Tenacious_Techhu> Page Swapping, and such.
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[07:17:07] <livinded> the Mach-O file itself has all the code and data in it, but the file format is essentially meta data included with the data and code that tells the loader how to start execution of the program
[07:17:10] <Tenacious_Techhu> Not recommended for hard-real-time systems, unless you start managing the page swapping manually. :P
[07:17:15] <jmr_mp> everyone seems to get confused by virtual memory because it's been conflated with paging by certain OS vendors
[07:17:30] <livinded> once the program is loaded the kernel takes over and handles swapping in pages of memory and execution
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[07:17:43] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., maybe you better explain the difference, then.
[07:17:50] <livinded> or the kernel delegates the task to whatever is responsible for doing that
[07:18:16] <Tenacious_Techhu> The memory management unit, or DMA, or whatever.
[07:18:34] <livinded> the loader just looks for like the Mach-O magic in a file. When it finds it it says, "Oh this is an executable, I need to handle this."
[07:18:44] <jmr_mp> virtual memory simply means you have virtual addresses and physical addresses
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[07:19:17] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well yes, which can be good on its own sometimes, but usually you map extra address space onto a hard drive, and page in and out.
[07:19:30] <Tenacious_Techhu> Is that all you meant?
[07:19:37] <livinded> then it reads the rest of the meta data, figures out what's needed to run the executable (libraries), if there are any contstructors, etc. that need to be run and turns over control to the kernel to execute the actual program
[07:19:53] <jmr_mp> sure, paging is one useful thing you can do with VM
[07:20:15] <livinded> you can also do cool stuff like ASLR
[07:20:31] <Tenacious_Techhu> ASLR?
[07:20:37] <livinded> address space layout randomization
[07:20:56] <Tenacious_Techhu> When would that be a benefit, exactly? Security?
[07:21:04] <livinded> method used for defending against memory corruption exploitation
[07:21:21] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yeah, not generally a concern in an embedded controller.
[07:21:37] <jmr_mp> you can also do allocations that aren't backed by anything until used
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[07:21:40] <Tenacious_Techhu> Generally, if you have access to an embedded controller, and you want it to not work so well anymore, you just smash it. XD
[07:21:43] <livinded> each time you execute a program the memory addresses are different so you can't have dependable locations for executing code that you overwrite into memory
[07:21:59] <jmr_mp> shared memory, COW, that kind of thing
[07:22:15] <livinded> PAE also
[07:22:18] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yes, that I got.
[07:22:47] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K.... So in order to get Linux software to run on Mac OS, you genuinely have to build it, because the executable format is different, yes?
[07:22:59] <livinded> it's not "linux" software
[07:23:07] <livinded> it's posix compatible software
[07:23:11] <jmr_mp> not if it builds on OS X anyway
[07:23:50] <Tenacious_Techhu> I would argue that Mac OS X runs posix, and therefore, since it?s an ELF file, it isn?t posix compatible.
[07:23:56] <livinded> like all UNIX and UNIX like operating systems all use ANSI C and Libc/glibc
[07:24:00] <Tenacious_Techhu> But I might be wrong about that, and I?d be glad to hear why.
[07:24:29] <livinded> as long as you stick to using only aspects of those it should run on any UNIX like operating system as long as you build it for that architecture
[07:24:59] <Tenacious_Techhu> Back before I knew what a hard-real-time system was, I wanted to make a hard-real-time physics engine for a game, and so I did an awful lot of looking into posix for thread control. :)
[07:25:19] <jmr_mp> it's possible to add an ELF loader to XNU, but then the syscalls are different
[07:25:23] <jmr_mp> so yeah
[07:25:24] <Tenacious_Techhu> My point is, you can?t take a compiled binary for Linux and just copy it to OS X and run it.
[07:26:03] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: you technically could if you wrote an ELF loader and a syscall translation layer and the binary didn't depend on anything that was linux specific
[07:26:15] <livinded> but just assume you can't
[07:26:36] <livinded> if you have the source code you can however build the program on os x and run that
[07:26:39] <jmr_mp> everything is possible in software, but much is way more trouble than it's worth :)
[07:26:45] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., for the sake of argument, why doesn?t MacPorts just take that approach? What is better or easier about the way they do things now?
[07:26:58] <jmr_mp> see "way more trouble than it's worth"
[07:27:00] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: because writing a linux syscall emulation layer is a lot of work
[07:27:06] <livinded> translation*
[07:27:12] <livinded> and it's slower
[07:27:17] <Tenacious_Techhu> *nods*
[07:27:34] <livinded> and you still need to emulate/implement all types of linux specific stuff that BSD/Mach doesn't support
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[07:28:24] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K.... so MacPorts satisfies the dependencies, and builds the software to the correct executable format...
[07:28:31] <Tenacious_Techhu> What else does it do?
[07:28:45] <jmr_mp> flipping it around, why not just implement the Mac UI on Linux?
[07:29:05] <Tenacious_Techhu> Because it?s closed source, naturally. :)
[07:29:26] <Tenacious_Techhu> I?m sure you could come close with OpenStep, and you might even get it to be cross-platform compatible that way.
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[07:30:22] <Tenacious_Techhu> I?m honestly not aware of how popular OpenStep is in Linux circles, but I?d imagine that if it was, there would at least be some talk about it that I?ve heard of.
[07:30:24] <jmr_mp> not sure being closed source is more of a barrier than not existing, like the linux syscall emulation layer
[07:31:24] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yes, but the OpenStep stuff that already exists presumably uses the current Linux GUI stuff.
[07:31:50] <Tenacious_Techhu> Hmm.
[07:32:16] <Tenacious_Techhu> But that doesn?t really apply to my problem, which is getting some Linux things to work on OS X.
[07:32:19] <jmr_mp> I dunno, what more do you want?
[07:32:25] <jmr_mp> builds disk images?
[07:32:52] 
[07:33:00] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: what do you want working on os x?
[07:33:12] <Tenacious_Techhu> Some embedded development stuff.
[07:33:16] <Tenacious_Techhu> Particularly for FPGAs.
[07:33:26] <livinded> is it proprietary?
[07:33:27] <Tenacious_Techhu> Linux versions, no Mac versions.
[07:33:42] <Tenacious_Techhu> There are some that are open-source, but usually only for a specific vendor.
[07:33:52] <livinded> you're better off using a vm probably then
[07:34:08] <Tenacious_Techhu> To be honest, I?d rather not...
[07:34:09] <livinded> vmware and parallels both have full usb passthru
[07:34:22] <Tenacious_Techhu> *nods*
[07:34:37] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: if it's even possible to do, it's probably not worth the time it's going to take to get it working
[07:35:08] <Tenacious_Techhu> So what are the other issues that I?d run into, then?
[07:36:00] <livinded> if binaries aren't offered for os x you're going to have to find some way to load ELF binaries on os x which is not really available
[07:36:14] <livinded> I mean you can do it, it's just a lot of work and not worth the hassle
[07:36:22] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yes, but there?s open-source available.
[07:36:31] <livinded> then build the open source tools
[07:36:34] <Tenacious_Techhu> I?d be stuck using that one vendor?s FPGA chip, but that?s fine.
[07:36:54] <Tenacious_Techhu> Right, but is it as simple as running the open-source tools through MacPorts, or is there more to it than that?
[07:37:03] <livinded> you have a compiler on os x
[07:37:13] <livinded> as long as there is nothing linux specific in the code you can build it
[07:37:38] <Tenacious_Techhu> And if there is, I?d need to try using MacPorts?
[07:38:27] <livinded> if there is you need to rewrite it to not use linux specific code
[07:38:32] <livinded> or use something else
[07:38:41] <livinded> macports wont make linux software magically run on os x
[07:39:00] <jmr_mp> macports doesn't do anything you couldn't do yourself with a toolchain and infinite patience
[07:39:32] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well yes, but I don?t have infinite patience. :)
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[07:40:16] <Tenacious_Techhu> So what does MacPorts do to regular Linux software? Or does it have to be modified in some way before it works in MacPorts?
[07:40:33] <jmr_mp> I'm just saying, macports isn't about figuring out how to build stuff for you, but about codifying it once it's figured out
[07:40:59] <jmr_mp> so only one person has to figure it out and write a portfile, which everyone else can then use
[07:41:53] <Tenacious_Techhu> So MacPorts mostly just stores open-source, solves some dependency problems, and then compiles it into an executable format?
[07:42:16] <jmr_mp> that about covers it
[07:42:45] <jmr_mp> keeping track of installed files is kind of important too
[07:43:38] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., so if I lost my sanity for a moment, and decided to port the software, what library or whatever would I use to use the MacPorts solution to the dependency problem?
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[07:44:28] <jmr_mp> not sure what you mean
[07:45:10] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well, MacPorts does something to resolve the different dependencies between OS X and Linux, right?
[07:45:18] <jmr_mp> not as such
[07:45:29] <Tenacious_Techhu> O.K., clarify, please.
[07:45:38] <jmr_mp> portfile authors specify what each port depends on
[07:48:26] <livinded> Tenacious_Techhu: macports has nothing to do with linux
[07:48:46] <livinded> it's a package management system
[07:49:02] <livinded> think of it like yum, apt, pacman, etc.
[07:49:13] <crtxc> or FreeBSD ports
[07:49:34] <livinded> crtxc: or FreeBSD ports, portage, etc.
[07:49:42] <Tenacious_Techhu> So it doesn?t actually do anything to resolve the dependencies that you?d find in Linux for a port to the Mac of that software.
[07:50:12] <livinded> the software isn't really a mac "port" of linux software
[07:50:29] <livinded> it's software that is designed to run on unix like operating systems (or possibly windows)
[07:50:40] <Tenacious_Techhu> Isn?t that kind of misleading?
[07:50:50] <livinded> how so?
[07:51:15] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well, if it was designed to run on it, it isn?t really being ported, now is it?
[07:51:28] <livinded> nobody is saying anything is ported
[07:51:38] <Tenacious_Techhu> How is it a port if it wasn?t ported?
[07:51:58] <livinded> macports is named after the "ports" package management system in FreeBSD because it is designed in a somewhat similar way
[07:52:19] <livinded> it's not for software that's ported to mac
[07:52:24] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well, why does it make sense in that context, then?
[07:54:28] <Tenacious_Techhu> ...
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[07:56:19] <livinded> I don't understand your question
[07:57:37] <Tenacious_Techhu> Why does it make sense to call it ?FreeBSD Ports? if nothing?s being ported?
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[08:01:43] <Tenacious_Techhu> ...
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[08:06:02] <faraway> hi .. i have a question to the migration is the "Reinstall ports" only if the architecture changed, or also if the major os version changes ?
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[08:07:50] <faraway> ah ok .. haven't seen the last part of the first sentence :D
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[08:09:06] <Tenacious_Techhu> Um... well?
[08:15:07] <crtxc> Tenacious, the way I see it, and I don't know a bunch, is that the "ports" are just sets of instructions.  These instructions wrap up, if you will, an application so that it can work on the OS X system.  So in this way the apps are ported, or carried (like the native North Americans ported their canoes arround water falls, via a active called portage by the French that immigrated to Eastern Canada)
[08:15:58] <Tenacious_Techhu> Seems kind of a stretch, given the way ?port? is currently used to imply moving from one platform to another.
[08:16:01] <crtxc> MacPorts provides an isolated file system to keep all the files in.
[08:16:16] <jmr_mp> port means a lot of things
[08:16:53] <crtxc> like fermer la porte :) close the door
[08:16:54] <jmr_mp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ports_collection
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[08:17:18] <Tenacious_Techhu> Yes it does, but in the context of compiled software for computers, I?m not convinced it means more than one thing.
[08:17:46] <Tenacious_Techhu> But I guess you guys don?t have an answer for me about this, and that?s all right. I can tell you tried. ^_^
[08:17:54] <crtxc> Maybe so.  Maybe your thinking in a closer to machine language sort of way.
[08:18:16] <Tenacious_Techhu> So, what sort of thing should I watch out for, which would indicate that it?s too ?Linux Specific??
[08:18:40] <fidencio> someone have issues to build gmp on updated macports?
[08:20:21] <crtxc> I don't know, sorry.  I think there are some programms that will not run on os x no matter what.  Like that audio stuff, can't remember the name, that is linux specific.
[08:22:17] <crtxc> The difference between OpenBSD, FreeBSD and OS X, I think, don't quote me, is that the first 2 in the list have the capability to emulate linux, OS X doesn't I don't think.
[08:23:11] <Tenacious_Techhu> Hypothetically, would that be a Darwin level project, to get OS X to emulate Linux?
[08:23:15] <crtxc> So there is a "sort of kernel" support by Open and FreeBSD for linux that OS X does not play around with.
[08:23:37] <crtxc> yes, maybe, I don't know for certain.
[08:24:31] <crtxc> But I know nothing of linux emulation.  I have used it a few times but on OpenBSD, not OSX
[08:24:32] <Tenacious_Techhu> Sounds like someone should get on that... I?m sure the Darwin developers aren?t wasting any time, but their results are less than obvious to the end-user.
[08:25:06] <fidencio> sorry, but, what ... exactly ... is your point?
[08:25:10] <fidencio> Tenacious_Techhu: ^
[08:25:49] <crtxc> Maybe.  I think If I had the skill to do what you say, I would just do want Torvolds did an name the system "sxytime"
[08:26:11] <Tenacious_Techhu> Heh. :)
[08:26:15] <crtxc> :)
[08:26:26] <Tenacious_Techhu> I didn?t mean to imply that presumption.
[08:27:08] <crtxc> :)  Just teasing.  I was imagining Borat pownding at the keyboard in his green thong.  :)
[08:27:21] <Tenacious_Techhu> Anyway, thank you guys for your help, even though it didn?t lead me anywhere I wanted to go.
[08:27:25] <Tenacious_Techhu> Ah.
[08:27:49] <Tenacious_Techhu> I know just enough about Borat to get that, and I?m pretty sure I don?t want to know any more. ;)
[08:28:05] <Tenacious_Techhu> Not really my taste in comedy. :)
[08:28:14] <crtxc> ok, like I said Tenacious_Techhu I am not really sure what your asking.  But MacPorts makes a little more sense to me than say, fink or something.
[08:28:52] <Tenacious_Techhu> Well, what I really want is a few specific Linux programs to work on OS X so O don?t have to stoop to using Linux.
[08:29:04] <Tenacious_Techhu> Err, so I don?t... :P
[08:29:30] <crtxc> I just see it as a way to install without having to spend hours downloading, unpacking, ,/configuring, make ....
[08:29:36] <Tenacious_Techhu> So I?ve been trying to figure ways around the problem, but it seems like a bit of a lost cause. I?d have to port the damn thing, and who knows how that would turn out?
[08:30:02] <Tenacious_Techhu> And that?s quite a bit of work for someone who prefers to do embedded development than working on Desktop Applications.
[08:30:18] <crtxc> Oh, well some things haven't build for me but almost everything has build really well.
[08:30:32] <crtxc> Ok
[08:30:48] <Tenacious_Techhu> Thank you anyway, though.
[08:30:53] <Tenacious_Techhu> Good night, gentlemen.
[08:30:55] <crtxc> have a good day.
[08:31:01] <crtxc> have a good night
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[09:10:41] <crtxc> :)
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[09:37:24] <Dynetrekk> hi, I saw macports 2.0 uses 'privilege dropping by default'. I assume this means that it installs stuff as $USER ? does this mean that I should reinstall or chmod stuff on my existing install?
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[12:02:34] <phennim> Hey all. I get an error installing ncurses on Lion. Anybody know the problem? Log: http://pastebin.com/trQKGaa3
[12:22:13] <phennim> never mind 'sudo su' && 'clean ncurses' && 'install ncurses' fixed my problems
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[13:21:53] <cosmos2> hi folks
[13:22:08] <cosmos2> is there a workaround to install mesa on a tiger ppc?
[13:22:37] <cosmos2> jeremyhu: have you an idea?
[13:22:57] <cosmos2> I'm still stuck with the gnuradio install
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[13:51:34] <MacinMan> is macports 2.0.0 for Lion? i was coming by to find out what version to use
[13:52:00] <RaYmAn> MacinMan: http://www.macports.org/install.php
[13:52:13] <RaYmAn> I was just looking for the same info and the install page mentions Lion specifically =P
[13:52:39] <MacinMan> thank you so much :)
[13:52:56] <Raim> yep, 2.0.0 is the first release officially supporting Lion
[13:54:13] <MacinMan> got it thanks, bbl
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[14:06:20] <neverpanic> 07:10:20  Tenacious_Te) Yeah, looked that up too, still don?t get it.
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[14:25:05] <neverpanic> sry.
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[15:03:41] <prof> Hey guys.
[15:04:46] <prof> I do have a fancy new problem with Lion and MacPorts.
[15:05:29] <prof> Neither the 2.0.0 Lion DMG from macports.org nor selfupdate nor compilation from svn does work.
[15:05:32] <prof> Installing new MacPorts release in /opt/local as egger:admin; permissions 0755; Tcl-Package in /Library/Tcl
[15:05:32] <prof> checking build system type... i386-apple-darwin11.0.0
[15:05:32] <prof> checking host system type... i386-apple-darwin11.0.0
[15:05:32] <prof> checking target system type... i386-apple-darwin11.0.0
[15:05:32] <prof> checking MacPorts version... 2.0.0
[15:05:32] <prof> checking for sw_vers... /usr/bin/sw_vers
[15:05:33] <prof> checking for defaults... /usr/bin/defaults
[15:05:33] <prof> checking for xcode-select... no
[15:05:34] <prof> checking Mac OS X version... 10.7
[15:05:34] <prof> checking Xcode version... 3.2.6
[15:05:35] <prof> checking for gcc... /usr/bin/llvm-gcc-4.2
[15:05:35] <prof> checking whether the C compiler works... no
[15:05:36] <prof> configure: error: in `/opt/local/var/macports/sources/rsync.macports.org/release/base':
[15:05:36] <prof> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[15:05:37] <prof> See `config.log' for more details
[15:05:37] <prof> shell command "cd /opt/local/var/macports/sources/rsync.macports.org/release/base && CC=/usr/bin/llvm-gcc-4.2 ./configure --prefix=/opt/local --with-tclpackage=/Library/Tcl --with-install-user=egger --with-install-group=admin --with-directory-mode=0755 --enable-readline && make && make install" returned error 77
[15:07:31] <prof> Obviously the reported XCode Version is wrong (I do have 4.1 installed) and there's no /usr/bin/llvm-gcc-4.2 since it now resides in /Developer/usr/bin. Overriding that with CC=/Developer/... results in the inability for configure to link against libcrt.
[15:07:34] <prof> Any clues?
[15:08:19] <prof> The installer complains with: MacPorts-2.0.0 can?t be installed on this computer. Xcode is not installed, or was installed with UNIX Development (10.5+) or Command Line Support (10.4) deselected.
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[15:24:02] <Raim> prof: hm, developer tools should be available from /usr/bin
[15:25:04] <prof> They were in SL. They're not Lion.
[15:25:57] <Raim> they are on my Lion system
[15:26:07] <Raim> but that was not a clean install...
[15:26:19] <prof> Mine was an upgrade from SL.
[15:26:33] <prof> Obviously the tools were removed during the update.
[15:27:03] <Raim> prof: but you installed Xcode 4.1 by running the "Install Xcode.app", right?
[15:28:20] <prof> Uhoh. No I didn't.
[15:28:27] <Raim> the App Store download is just the installer, you still have to execute it manually
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[15:29:06] <prof> Darn. I had the impression it was automatically installed since Xcode automatically downloaded Java when I tried to start it.
[15:29:23] <Raim> guess you launched the old Xcode 3.2.6 ;)
[15:30:13] <prof> Probably. I didn't know the autodownload functionality was also in earlier versions. :/
[15:31:20] <prof> I'm doing so right now...
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[15:41:01] <Raim> prof: the auto-download must be a feature of OS X itself, not Xcode. it was already being used in SL for Rosetta.
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[15:43:26] <prof> Alright then. Seems to work now. Thanks for your support!
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[16:54:09] <rkmichael> Hello all.  Can someone give me the correct usage to install an old version of a port?  From "man port", I've tried "port install MacVim @7.3.snapshot59 +(my variant stuff)", but it still installs ss59 (latest).  Thanks!
[16:54:51] <neverpanic> rkmichael: https://trac.macports.org/wiki/howto/InstallingOlderPort
[16:55:18] <rkmichael> neverpanic: Thanks!
[16:55:34] <neverpanic> Why do you want an older version of vim, though?
[16:55:43] <rkmichael> Latest segfaults. :-(
[16:56:02] <neverpanic> debug and fix it?
[16:56:30] <rkmichael> I'm doubtful I could.  But in any case, I need at least 1 machine with functioning vim. :-)
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[17:06:23] <yeled> bravo for 2.0
[17:14:10] <rkmichael> Alright.. seems to be the ruby variant: "port install macvim +ruby" SEGVs
[17:15:01] <CIA-46> snc at macports dot org * r80965 /trunk/dports/python/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[17:15:01] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80965
[17:15:01] <CIA-46> py2[5-7]-googleappengine:
[17:15:01] <CIA-46> * update to 2.5.2
[17:15:01] <CIA-46> * mark conflicting
[17:26:34] <CIA-46> snc at macports dot org * r80966 /trunk/dports/security/ykpers/Portfile:
[17:26:34] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80966
[17:26:34] <CIA-46> ykpers: update to 1.6.0
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[17:52:59] <rkmichael> neverpanic: Thanks for the push.  Ripping out my vim dotfiles brings vim back to life ; so it's config.  Perhaps a bug to be filed against vim.  I'll keep looking.
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[17:54:23] <neverpanic> rkmichael: Thanks for the effort
[18:02:34] <rkmichael> The macvim portfile contains: "depends_lib-append port:ruby".  Does this mean MacVim will build and link against macports installed ruby, not system ruby?
[18:03:55] <neverpanic> yes
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[18:04:45] <neverpanic> depends_lib-append lib:libruby.dylib(orwhateverit'snameis):ruby would do the other thing and install the ruby port only if libruby.dylib isn't available
[18:04:54] <neverpanic> (from what I understand)
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[18:25:28] <rkmichael> From the FAQ, I've understood it's best to leave it alone.  It was a vim ruby plugin built against system ruby (therefore, ruby mismatch) which is caused the problem.  I've adjusted the plugin to build against macports ruby.  Thanks!
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[18:34:42] <neverpanic> If that was caused by an erroneous portfile you might want to file a ticket against it
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[18:34:49] <neverpanic> too late. :(
[18:36:35] <Sebastian_> Trying again to raise some interest in a patch I submitted 3 months ago and pinged the mailing list about a bit ago: If anyone has any comments on what I can do to get https://trac.macports.org/ticket/28750 committed, I would be very happy indeed. ML-post: http://lists.macosforge.org/pipermail/macports-users/2011-July/024704.html
[18:37:08] <Sebastian_> it's a bit sad to see that patches get overlooked so easily with very little feedback :(
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[18:38:42] <neverpanic> !port info wml
[18:41:01] <neverpanic> Sebastian_: In this case the port has no maintainer, so there's nobody felling responsible for it.
[18:41:12] <neverpanic> But you could volunteer to do it if you want
[18:41:28] <Sebastian_> As I can see it there are two problems
[18:41:37] <Sebastian_> one problem is obviously the breakage with the newer perl version
[18:41:50] <Sebastian_> the second problem is that the port requires that you install perl with the +shared variant
[18:41:59] <Sebastian_> which somehow can't be communicated through macports
[18:42:15] <Sebastian_> Maybe some people actually looked at it, noticed it didn't work for them, and forgot about it
[18:42:16] <neverpanic> yeah, dependencies on variants are currently not possible
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[18:42:32] <Sebastian_> obviously I would be happy to "maintain" the port. But I don't know what's involved in this.
[18:42:39] <neverpanic> but one can check for the file in the portfile and issue a message if it doesn't exist
[18:42:49] <Sebastian_> oh
[18:42:53] <Sebastian_> that would be a neat workaround
[18:43:15] <neverpanic> that's been done before in other ports, you might try grepping the portfile repository
[18:43:33] <neverpanic> I don't know what ports though, so I can't give you a hint, sorry.
[18:43:38] <Sebastian_> alright
[18:43:41] <Sebastian_> i will see what I can find
[18:44:03] <neverpanic> I have no idea how to become a maintainer though, probably ask the mailinglist; I'm rather new to the project
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[18:44:37] <neverpanic> and I'd have a look and commit your patch, if I had any time now; have to leave in a couple of minutes
[18:44:48] <neverpanic> but if noone responds feel free to get back to me next week
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[19:29:25] <CIA-46> macsforever2000 at macports dot org * r80967 /trunk/dports/aqua/qtiplot/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
[19:29:25] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80967
[19:29:25] <CIA-46> qtiplot: Update to version 0.9.8.7. Add python27 variant. (#30269)
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[19:38:54] <vyshaya> how do i install db46 + macports + Lion ?
[19:54:27] <CIA-46> ryandesign at macports dot org * r80968 /trunk/dports/net/httping/Portfile:
[19:54:27] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80968
[19:54:27] <CIA-46> httping: update to 1.4.3; fix livecheck; support build_arch and universal variant (#23884)
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[20:51:56] <vyshaya> i guess i say 'dont use java'
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[21:45:54] <Bart-> it takes ages an selfupdate today
[21:46:01] <Bart-> like over 45 mins
[21:46:09] <Bart-> but bsdtar is still working hopefully nothing hangs ;)
[21:46:34] <jmr_mp> yeah, all installed ports are converted to the new image format
[21:46:44] <Bart-> yeah that takes ages :=)
[21:46:49] <Bart-> i have a lot installed
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[22:07:59] <snc> a heads up: http://guide.macports.org/#internals.hierarchy needs updated
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[22:08:17] <snc> specifically regarding images/archives affect on var/macports/software
[22:08:44] <snc> we should probably check for all instances of image mode in the guide
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[22:18:15] <snelly> ahhdem of course you can
[22:18:19] <snelly> oops wrong window sorry
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[22:24:10] <snelly> so, does anybody know if following the migration instructions on the wiki will fix the compilation issues i'm having with perl under Lion?
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[22:24:32] <snelly> i saw some indications somewhere that this may be a problem with xcode, not macports
[22:25:00] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80969 /trunk/base/src/port/port.tcl:
[22:25:00] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80969
[22:25:00] <CIA-46> fix port variants --index
[22:25:29] <jmr_mp> snelly: which perl version and what issues?
[22:25:39] <snelly> i tried 5.8 and 5.14
[22:25:43] <snelly> here's what i get:
[22:26:26] <jmr_mp> 5.8 has a ticket
[22:26:58] * jmr_mp hopes a pastebin link is coming, not a flood :)
[22:27:59] <snelly> http://pastebin.com/N5BYd8Gc
[22:28:06] <snelly> of course :)
[22:28:24] <jmr_mp> yeah, that's https://trac.macports.org/ticket/30032
[22:29:12] <snelly> so it's basically still an  outstanding issue eh
[22:29:29] <snelly> shoot, i may have to go build ImageMagick by hand
[22:29:35] <snelly> it will be like 1997 all over again
[22:30:27] <jmr_mp> at first glance the code looks invalid
[22:30:37] <jmr_mp> guess gcc is more lenient in that case than llvm
[22:32:15] <snelly> is llvm being used now?
[22:32:18] <snelly> i didn't even look
[22:34:21] <jmr_mp> yes, llvm-gcc-4.2 is default
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[22:35:21] <snelly> hmm
[22:35:28] <snelly> looks like xcode also includes a non-LLVM gcc?
[22:35:32] <snelly> gcc-4.2
[22:35:42] <jmr_mp> yeah, for now at least
[22:35:55] <snelly> is there a quick and dirty way to get macports to use that
[22:36:02] <jmr_mp> could you install perl5 +perl5_12
[22:36:14] <jmr_mp> imagemagick seems to just depend on perl5
[22:37:06] <jmr_mp> I just tried gcc-4.2 and it fails the same way, sorry
[22:37:33] <snelly> cjs@roatan [115] 14:41:30 [~]-> sudo port -f activate perl5
[22:37:33] <snelly> Error: port activate failed: Registry error: Please specify the full version as recorded in the port registry.
[22:37:51] <snelly> i'm pretty new to macports if that isn't obvious
[22:38:24] <jmr_mp> sudo port activate perl5 @5.12.3_1+perl5_12
[22:38:46] <snelly> ban
[22:38:48] <snelly> err
[22:38:48] <snelly> bam
[22:38:56] <snelly> i deactivated 5.8 and then tried again
[22:39:02] <snelly> now i'm in business.  thanks!
[22:39:05] <jmr_mp> yw
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[22:41:13] <snelly> take care
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[22:48:23] <CIA-46> raimue at macports dot org * r80970 /trunk/dports/editors/ (vim/Portfile vim-app/Portfile):
[22:48:24] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80970
[22:48:24] <CIA-46> editors/vim, editors/vim-app:
[22:48:24] <CIA-46> Fix +xim variant, #30197
[22:56:59] <Bart-> yeah
[22:57:00] <Bart-> finish
[22:57:03] <Bart-> after 2 hours
[22:57:04] <Bart-> ;)
[22:58:40] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80971 /trunk/base/src/port1.0/portutil.tcl:
[22:58:41] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80971
[22:58:41] <CIA-46> don't clobber other variant info when setting is_default
[23:00:50] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80972 /branches/release_2_0/ (9 files in 6 dirs):
[23:00:50] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80972
[23:00:50] <CIA-46> merge r80969 from trunk:
[23:00:50] <CIA-46> fix port variants --index
[23:02:40] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80973 /branches/release_2_0/ (9 files in 6 dirs):
[23:02:40] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80973
[23:02:40] <CIA-46> merge r80971 from trunk:
[23:02:40] <CIA-46> don't clobber other variant info when setting is_default
[23:03:21] <CIA-46> dports at macports dot org * r80974 /users/dports/ports/tex/texlive-xetex/Portfile:
[23:03:21] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80974
[23:03:21] <CIA-46> texlive-xetex: exclude tlpostcode/xetex.pl to prevent warning
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[23:09:29] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80975 /trunk/dports/databases/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
[23:09:29] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80975
[23:09:29] <CIA-46> Berkeley DB ports: change no_java variant to java, make java default on pre-Lion only, and change no_sql to sql
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[23:27:51] <inspiran> hey all
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[23:28:35] <inspiran> annyone facing issues with libiconv after upgrading to Tiger?
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[23:29:32] <byoung> I botched my lion upgrade; I'm having issues with port wanting to convert the registry to sqlite format (which is failing).
[23:29:52] <byoung> I can't uninstall or migrate using the standard methods
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[23:30:12] <byoung> any hints?  I'm willing to completely remove macports and reinstall
[23:31:42] <uebera||> byoung: Did you have a look at -->https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Migration already?
[23:31:50] <Raim> byoung: http://guide.macports.org/chunked/installing.macports.uninstalling.html
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[23:32:55] <byoung> The problem is that *no* port command works at all.
[23:32:56] <Raim> byoung: just skip the first step if port itself isn't functional any more, usually all files are in the paths removed below
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[23:33:29] <byoung> e.g.:
[23:33:30] <byoung> sudo port -qv installed > myports.txt
[23:33:30] <byoung> Password:
[23:33:30] <byoung> Warning: Converting your registry to sqlite format, this might take a while...
[23:33:30] <byoung> Error: /opt/local/bin/port: Failed to initialize MacPorts, Failed to convert your registry to sqlite!
[23:34:00] <byoung> @raim: ok
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[23:40:48] <byoung> looks like that worked, after a re-install of macports, and now I'll be boiling the oceans for a day or two.
[23:43:36] <jmr_mp> watch out for files left over in /Applications/MacPorts or /Library/LaunchDaemons
[23:44:22] <jmr_mp> debug output for the failed conversion might have been interesting; normally it's a corrupted receipt but you never know
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[23:56:40] <CIA-46> jmr at macports dot org * r80976 /trunk/dports/_resources/port1.0/group/python-1.0.tcl:
[23:56:40] <CIA-46> http://trac.macports.org/changeset/80976
[23:56:40] <CIA-46> add unified python portgroup (#16723)
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