June 21, 2019 
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June 21, 2019 [00:52:18] *** Lestat <Lestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has joined #libgdx[01:02:18] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has joined #libgdx[01:27:17] <WickedShell_> bomb I've never tried, but I used to run LibGDX in a swing application without to much hassale. I eventually did away with the Swing side of it and moved to just using LibGDX for everything, but I didn't have any real problems with it being in swing. Pretty sure you can stick Swing stuff into JavaFX if you wanted...[01:27:54] <WickedShell_> I just gave up because the Swing/AWT UI was a hassle to lay out, and wasn't very responsive once I had enough nodes loaded...[01:28:41] <bomb> WickedShell_: too bad i need some traditional GUI stuff :|[01:31:16] <bomb> WickedShell_: oh but i'll use Clojure for Swing stuff this time[01:31:20] <bomb> namely Seesaw[01:31:38] <bomb> 100% tettinger approved solution[01:32:05] <WickedShell_> lol I started with that, then play-clj and got more frustrated[01:32:25] <WickedShell_> My application is a LibGDX one written all in Clojure... I found just doing the interop to be more straightforward :)[01:32:32] <bomb> i never like anything that Scala touches[01:32:59] <bomb> i mean, it's very unlike Clojure[01:35:32] <WickedShell_> Honestly I've got mixed opinions. Clojure was great for spining up/prototyping. But it's horrid for maintenance[01:35:45] <WickedShell_> And I really wish I'd stuck with something that had stronger typing[01:35:56] <WickedShell_> because refactoring is a nightmare :([01:36:00] <bomb> i'd agree with that[01:36:37] <bomb> well, my clojure program is like 20 LoC, so my experience doesn't mean shit here XD[01:37:05] <bomb> how was clj + gdx?[01:37:22] <WickedShell_> Just shy of 20k here, and that ignores the stuff I factored out to seperate libraries/open sourced :P[01:37:43] <bomb> wowza[01:37:57] <WickedShell_> Clojure + GDX is actually easy/straightforward[01:38:41] <bomb> i don't code professionally anymore, i just want to bring some fun to the programming[01:38:47] <bomb> but i want to stay around JVM[01:38:50] <WickedShell_> There's a bit of a paradigm difference of retained state vs functional, but it's not hard to manage. The only thing that really bugs me is that clojure has a problem with calling super on proxied classes... Generates reflection[01:39:01] <bomb> Clojure looked like a good idea. thanks for verifying it[01:39:06] <WickedShell_> But I only hit that twice in a rare case, and just live with the reflection[01:39:36] <bomb> that would affect performance, i guess[01:39:36] <WickedShell_> For the record I don't make games, I make ground control software for UAV's (drones) as well as do the actual flight code, so my experience is aimed at something else :)[01:39:58] <bomb> oh, i don't do games either[01:40:12] <WickedShell_> oh and avoid clojure.core/cache. That's responsible for 60% of all my memory allocation, and I can't wait to shoot it[01:40:15] <bomb> just want some GUI for audio stuff[01:41:04] <bomb> was gdx really better choice than swing/javafx for that controller software?[01:41:07] <WickedShell_> I ended up heavily using core/async and core/match which are really nice[01:41:09] <bomb> i'm surprised[01:41:17] <WickedShell_> Absolutely![01:41:37] <WickedShell_> Drawing maps + waypoints + aircraft trail + hud is a great way to watch Swing fall over :)[01:42:03] <WickedShell_> vs GDX I can shove all the satellite tiles into a single texture, and draw them in one call[01:42:03] <bomb> hehehe[01:42:26] <WickedShell_> Also fixed a lot of OS look and feel issues between windows/linux[01:42:47] <WickedShell_> And I've never seen performant antialiased lines in Swing :P[01:42:56] <bomb> i think you'd enjoy javafx too[01:43:37] <WickedShell_> I also got into problems once I had scroll panes containing ~1000 lines of label + textfield, notable hitching when scrolling[01:44:05] <WickedShell_> And I need it to work on low end windows machines (IE Atom Z3735f with 2GB of RAM)[01:44:36] <bomb> oh, gdx worked well on those netbooks?[01:44:40] <WickedShell_> Yeah[01:45:00] <bomb> i have a plenty around, i think i can still make use of them[01:45:08] <WickedShell_> I don't do continous rendering because I don't need to. I still end up redrawing at ~20Hz because of external events, but I can render my application in <16ms on those machines[01:45:39] <bomb> wow[01:47:18] <bomb> is it, at least screenshots, openly available somewhere online?[01:51:04] <WickedShell_> bomb https://imgur.com/a/b3zSbvO some random screenshots now[01:51:30] <WickedShell_> Probably not the most compelling demo[01:52:01] <WickedShell_> The last one is actually all real time slope shading based on a texturebuffer containing height data[01:53:06] <WickedShell_> Which I actually paid Tomski to implement the rendering of, because I was low on time :([01:53:18] <WickedShell_> Still need to find more time to add the other rendering modes over top of it[01:54:15] <bomb> it's all looking great[01:55:05] <bomb> a JavaFX GUI with equivalent complexity would run like ass on those Atom netbooks[01:55:19] <bomb> and you don't even have access to the GL context in JavaFX[01:55:35] <WickedShell_> Which is really unfortunate that it would run so badly. I don't really understand why...[01:56:06] <WickedShell_> I mean I get that for the map rendering I cheated and could control the texture storage, but even if it's all individual textures per tile that's not actually a big perf hit on desktop machines...[01:56:18] <WickedShell_> (It is however a huge hit on Android, but that's fair)[01:57:27] <bomb> it's still pushing polygons and textures to the GPU, meanwhile JavaFX needs to rasterize all the vectors and text first[01:58:32] <bomb> i'm glad we have a performant option for GUI on low-end computers[01:58:38] <WickedShell_> Yeah. I found the trick with performant swing was knowing when you could skip calling super() on derived stuff, but even that was a total mess[01:59:04] <bomb> did you use LuaJ for scripting, btw?[01:59:10] <WickedShell_> Clojure is probably going to be your main impedement to ringing more perf out. Usually not because it's slow, but random GC'ing will hurt[01:59:16] <WickedShell_> lol those lua comments are from the vehicle[01:59:37] <WickedShell_> I've actually embeded a lua runtime into the vehicle, and just didn't turn it off in the simulator for taking screenshots :P[01:59:46] <bomb> hehe[02:00:14] <WickedShell_> Clojure on android is a nightmare :/[02:00:15] <bomb> just curious, if you wrote all these in Java...[02:00:24] <bomb> how big the codebase would be?[02:00:42] <WickedShell_> IDK, I'm slowly rebuilding the same application in Java for Android reasons...[02:00:45] *** Thinkofname <Thinkofname!~Think@5.135.185.23> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:00:54] <bomb> ouch[02:01:21] <WickedShell_> My original plan said Android was going to be easy because LibGDX can handle it, but Clojure support for android/development basically died around the time I started writing the entire program. Didn't notice till I wanted to do the port 4+ years later...[02:02:14] <WickedShell_> The parser for the telemetry stream from the vehicle is amazingly shorter in Clojure then Java...[02:02:38] *** Thinkofname <Thinkofname!~Think@5.135.185.23> has joined #libgdx[02:03:02] <WickedShell_> The Java version that floats around for the same thing generates ~400 classes that you have to link in. The clojure version parses the XML spec at runtime, then decodes the entire telemetry stream into maps (the clojure version) with the fields looked up by keyword[02:03:27] <WickedShell_> The parser then pushes them onto a core/async channel which I feed to a publisher, and parts of the code just sub/unsub for the topics they want[02:03:56] <WickedShell_> Was waaaayyyy easier to manage then the Java version which you individually feed bytes to, then it handed you back an instance of Message and you had to do a switch on what type of message then shove it around[02:04:12] <bomb> that sounds terrific[02:04:23] <bomb> i should just sit down and learn Clojure[02:04:42] <WickedShell_> Really worked well because of the immutable data structures, as each consumer of the same message got to safely look at the same version[02:05:12] <WickedShell_> So if a heartbeat came in, there might be 5 people looking at it, but it's all using the same backend instance safely, and they can just conj on new fields when they want and pass it around[02:05:30] <WickedShell_> I'm dreading going back to the Java version when I get there in the rewrite...[02:06:55] <WickedShell_> If you've ever done multi threaded stuff in Java, I think you'll find the Clojure stuff in core/async to be amazing[02:07:26] <bomb> sounds exciting[02:08:08] <bomb> by the way, looks like JavaFX falls back to software rendering on Intel Atoms. that explains the poor performance[02:11:00] <bomb> WickedShell_: i need to leave now. thank you for sharing details about your software[02:11:21] <bomb> just right on time when i was curious about Clojure :)[02:13:36] <WickedShell_> lol I've been dodging work so I should go back to it :)[02:14:51] <bomb> hehe. cya![02:14:54] *** bomb <bomb!~bomb@gateway/tor-sasl/bomb> has quit IRC (Quit: .)[02:35:32] *** Lestat <Lestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:35:38] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has joined #libgdx[02:38:33] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:38:46] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has joined #libgdx[03:13:17] *** niloc132 <niloc132!~colin@c-73-228-219-105.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #libgdx[03:13:23] *** niloc132 <niloc132!~colin@c-73-228-219-105.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[03:16:06] *** niloc132 <niloc132!~colin@c-73-228-219-105.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #libgdx[03:28:27] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection refused)[04:17:44] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has joined #libgdx[04:18:16] *** niloc132 <niloc132!~colin@c-73-228-219-105.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: niloc132)[04:30:42] *** cypherdare <cypherdare!~cypherdar@cpe-74-128-156-161.kya.res.rr.com> has joined #libgdx[05:06:39] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection refused)[05:23:05] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has joined #libgdx[06:11:07] *** Corbit <Corbit!~corbit@2001:a61:34f2:d101:cd8f:6d88:7693:c5a7> has joined #libgdx[06:31:43] *** cypherdare <cypherdare!~cypherdar@cpe-74-128-156-161.kya.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[07:48:22] *** Tomski <Tomski!Tski@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-isoctjmykazesvvl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[08:05:08] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[08:10:36] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has joined #libgdx[08:10:36] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[08:26:51] *** xLestat <xLestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:07:48] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has joined #libgdx[09:07:48] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[09:12:07] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has joined #libgdx[09:37:53] *** Corbit <Corbit!~corbit@2001:a61:34f2:d101:cd8f:6d88:7693:c5a7> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[09:41:09] *** WickedShell_ <WickedShell_!~WickedShe@159-118-128-145.cpe.cableone.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:49:55] *** [AD]Turbo <[AD]Turbo!~ADTurbo@93-40-209-27.ip40.fastwebnet.it> has joined #libgdx[09:49:57] <[AD]Turbo> hi there[11:16:48] *** TEttinger <TEttinger!~notostrac@76-217-24-171.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[11:29:05] *** Me4502 <Me4502!~Me4502@unaffiliated/me4502> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[11:29:48] *** Corbit <Corbit!~corbit@2001:a61:34f2:d101:b987:d4a6:ddc:3a5e> has joined #libgdx[11:52:45] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@ip4d168992.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #libgdx[11:56:43] *** bomb <bomb!~bomb@gateway/tor-sasl/bomb> has joined #libgdx[13:10:46] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #libgdx[13:25:14] *** dissolution2 <dissolution2!54cad7f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.202.215.241> has joined #libgdx[14:40:59] *** wickedshell <wickedshell!WickedShel@gateway/shell/firrre/x-xbbuyuierayuvxzc> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[14:48:41] *** Corbit <Corbit!~corbit@2001:a61:34f2:d101:b987:d4a6:ddc:3a5e> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[14:56:51] *** Lestat <Lestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has joined #libgdx[14:59:13] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[15:26:35] <bomb> Lestat: https://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=11472[15:41:53] *** Corbit <Corbit!~corbit@2001:a61:34f2:d101:b987:d4a6:ddc:3a5e> has joined #libgdx[15:51:57] *** jwinterm <jwinterm!~quassel@unaffiliated/jwinterm> has quit IRC (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)[15:56:43] *** jwinterm <jwinterm!~quassel@unaffiliated/jwinterm> has joined #libgdx[15:56:43] *** jwinterm <jwinterm!~quassel@unaffiliated/jwinterm> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[17:07:52] *** isdera <isdera!~isdera@cpe-74-78-184-169.maine.res.rr.com> has joined #libgdx[17:08:22] <isdera> any idea why my Box2D bodies keep sticking together and overlapping and won't separate? I read it might have to do with my timestep, I've tried delta-based time step and 1f/60 timestep.[17:12:14] <Corbit> so physics simulation looks not correct?[17:13:11] <isdera> yeah.. objects should collide and bounce of each other, not overlap, go through each other, or stick together.[17:13:37] <isdera> if I throw an object really hard, it will pass through another object instead of collide. Or it will stick to the object and not seperate.[17:15:53] <Corbit> do you have a variable timestep or a fixed one?[17:17:01] <isdera> i have tested both delta and 1f/60, it happens either way. I also tried increasing velocity and position iterations.[17:22:08] <isdera> maybe it has to do with dynamic body density?[17:25:59] <Corbit> good suspect[17:30:40] *** [AD]Turbo <[AD]Turbo!~ADTurbo@93-40-209-27.ip40.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC ()[17:41:01] *** Tom <Tom!~smuxi@cpc116372-oxfd27-2-0-cust352.4-3.cable.virginm.net> has joined #libgdx[17:41:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tom[17:41:20] *** Tom is now known as Guest37911[17:41:26] *** Guest37911 is now known as Tomski[18:42:41] *** bomb <bomb!~bomb@gateway/tor-sasl/bomb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:51:48] *** bomb <bomb!~bomb@gateway/tor-sasl/bomb> has joined #libgdx[18:55:37] *** dissolution2 <dissolution2!54cad7f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.202.215.241> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[19:25:24] *** bomb is now known as bonb[20:00:26] *** bonb is now known as bomb[20:06:28] *** niloc132 <niloc132!~colin@172.56.20.231> has joined #libgdx[20:09:52] *** niloc132_ <niloc132_!~colin@172.56.21.63> has joined #libgdx[20:09:55] *** niloc132_ <niloc132_!~colin@172.56.21.63> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:11:56] *** niloc132 <niloc132!~colin@172.56.20.231> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[20:18:28] *** bomb <bomb!~bomb@gateway/tor-sasl/bomb> has quit IRC (Quit: .)[20:25:27] *** isdera <isdera!~isdera@cpe-74-78-184-169.maine.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:54:45] *** TEttinger <TEttinger!~notostrac@76-217-24-171.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #libgdx[21:07:27] *** WickedShell <WickedShell!~WickedShe@159-118-128-145.cpe.cableone.net> has joined #libgdx[21:19:30] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@ip4d168992.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye!)[21:44:12] *** mxttie <mxttie!~mattie@ptr-82njb8jygx4gzi82v7a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined #libgdx[22:31:30] *** Corbit <Corbit!~corbit@2001:a61:34f2:d101:b987:d4a6:ddc:3a5e> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[23:51:55] *** Lestat <Lestat!~Zoryth@177.237.5.35> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection refused)