May 20, 2018 
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May 20, 2018 [00:00:02] <horribleProgram> FattyOwl: Are you designed a game?[00:00:33] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@45.250.56.145> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[00:00:38] <FattyOwl> do you mean, have i[00:00:48] <horribleProgram> yeah[00:01:12] <FattyOwl> not anything interesting yet[00:01:30] <horribleProgram> I feeel you[00:02:03] <horribleProgram> I got a few ideas, and my New Years Resolution was to create 2 full blown games this year[00:02:28] <FattyOwl> good luck[00:02:29] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@117.194.196.136> has joined #libgdx[00:03:25] <horribleProgram> you two[00:03:27] <horribleProgram> too*[00:05:31] <grim001> what kind of game do you want to make in 6 months[00:05:45] <horribleProgram> some shitty 2d side scroller or some shit[00:06:09] <horribleProgram> the type of stuff you guys build in 2 weeks[00:06:16] <horribleProgram> or less[00:06:35] <horribleProgram> wby?[00:08:03] <grim001> just curious[00:08:20] <grim001> I assume you want to build it in libgdx, using self-made pixel art?[00:08:22] <horribleProgram> sorry, wby looks like why[00:08:29] <horribleProgram> what about you is what I meant to say[00:08:37] <horribleProgram> yeah[00:10:02] <grim001> I've been working on a project for a long time, a pixel art isometric RPG with inspirations from ultima, diablo and dark souls[00:10:15] <grim001> rendering engine is "almost" complete... but there's always something else to add or fix[00:11:04] <horribleProgram> desktop? you do realize full teams of game developers work on those projects[00:11:40] <grim001> inspired by doesn't mean it's on the same level of scope, particularly with a pixel art game[00:11:59] <FattyOwl> sounds good grim001[00:12:33] <horribleProgram> I like it[00:12:39] <horribleProgram> rpgs[00:12:45] <horribleProgram> I grew up on Runescape[00:12:50] <horribleProgram> and WoW[00:13:12] <horribleProgram> Not to be offensive[00:13:16] <horribleProgram> but why not Unity[00:14:41] <horribleProgram> I mean, its a pretty fucken great engine that takes care of everything for you, collision, particles, cameras,[00:15:03] <horribleProgram> lighting[00:15:53] <myke> you're free to go that route[00:17:05] <horribleProgram> yeah, it's not out of the cards yet, I'm trying them both[00:17:45] <horribleProgram> My choice will be depending on which game idea I end up committing to[00:36:14] *** horribleProgram <horribleProgram!~quassel@unaffiliated/horribleprogram> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:38:41] <grim001> unity is great if you want to go 3d, a little overkill for some 2d projects[00:39:26] <FattyOwl> java has a huger number of interesting libraries too[00:39:32] <FattyOwl> huge[00:39:53] <myke> i don't like that in unity the answer for everything seems to be buy a thing[00:40:01] <myke> can't get your tilemap camera to work? buy this camera add-on[00:40:04] <FattyOwl> i used this in a prototype i made recently http://jgrapht.org[00:40:23] <FattyOwl> just as an example[00:44:30] *** DranikProgrammer <DranikProgrammer!~vlad@82.209.215.9> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:51:35] <TEttinger> had some interesting performance results benchmarking Java and Rust random number generators. the fastest one I've found in Java is also the fastest I've found across languages that doesn't have glaring statistical issues (actually really good stat quality). only comparing generators without serious flaws, Linnorm in Java is fastest, followed by SplitMix in Rust[00:51:44] <TEttinger> Java ain't slow[00:55:12] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@cli-5b7ec28e.ast.adamo.es> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:00:31] <FattyOwl> i know right. still startup time and gc lag are still a pain[01:01:31] <TEttinger> I guess. even with startup time this is doing well[01:01:46] <TEttinger> 21 vs. 31 seconds to generate the sum of 20 billion longs[01:10:24] <grim001> in my game, which uses objects very freely, I tend to get GC pauses in the range of 2-3 milliseconds every 5 or 6 seconds[01:10:47] <grim001> a slight increase in frame time, but not enough to be visually noticable[01:11:35] <grim001> well, that was before I took object allocation out of some of the low level render loop areas, it's probably quite a lot less now[01:12:16] <grim001> however, before profiling what GC was actually contibuting to the stuttering issue, I assumed the GC was at fault[01:12:49] <grim001> even this G1 garbage collector which isn't particularly well suited for realtime (supposedly) isn't so bad[01:13:01] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjmyfvqhskhfkzrw> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[01:17:27] *** Oebele <Oebele!~quassel@143.177.58.202> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:31:02] *** mutilator <mutilator!muti@c-73-144-231-9.hsd1.mi.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:31:20] *** mutilator <mutilator!muti@c-73-144-231-9.hsd1.mi.comcast.net> has joined #libgdx[01:36:45] <myke> reduce and reuse, then recycle[01:51:39] <grim001> the actual culprit had turned out to be some driver thing, which resolved itself when I updated drivers[01:51:53] <grim001> but people will rush to blame the GC if it's java[01:52:32] <grim001> even if you employ absolutely no strategies to reduce GC usage, you'd have to be doing an awful lot of wasteful allocation to make it lag in a visually noticable way[02:14:13] *** intrigus <intrigus!uid114902@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jzdfsdrgoxycfmgo> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[03:07:40] *** dsbk <dsbk!~Bokudesu@79-69-48-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:11:31] *** jwinterm <jwinterm!~quassel@unaffiliated/jwinterm> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[03:57:41] <DB219> what's everyone up to?[03:57:59] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@117.194.196.136> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[04:00:02] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has joined #libgdx[04:01:29] *** OtakuSenpai is now known as Neel[05:35:38] <TEttinger> hey DB219[05:35:51] <Sneakywee> sup FattyOwl[05:35:55] <TEttinger> my computer is attempting to achieve liftoff[05:38:13] <TEttinger> doing RNG testing. 16TB tested in one window, wide spectrum of tests, running on 8 threads (going for 32 TB tomorrow). 70TB tested on a different test in another window, only one thread. one 4-hour test finished, no failures. another will soon[05:38:36] <TEttinger> so glad I got a better laptop cooling pad[05:39:04] *** Neel <Neel!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[05:42:53] *** horribleProgram <horribleProgram!~quassel@unaffiliated/horribleprogram> has joined #libgdx[05:44:02] <myke> still a better use of computer hardware than mining bitcoin[05:44:13] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nnnbokagbsfhempr> has joined #libgdx[05:45:15] <TEttinger> no GPU involved, also the laptop uses relatively low power[06:17:40] *** DB219 <DB219!4344a212@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.68.162.18> has quit IRC ()[06:18:02] *** blahblah <blahblah!~bigtest@78.192.105.72> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[06:39:21] <horribleProgram> Im so proud of myself[06:40:19] <horribleProgram> I have the ability to create 3D games that would have been very impressive if it were 1993[06:42:18] <TEttinger> heh, 3d isn't easy[06:42:35] <TEttinger> 4d, getting hard[06:42:49] <TEttinger> 6d, now we're talking[06:43:02] <myke> a guy i went to uni with made a 4d game[06:43:25] <TEttinger> I've played 4d tic tac toe, it's not easy either. first move has a strong advantage[06:43:35] <horribleProgram> every game is 4d[06:43:42] <myke> https://www.fourthdimensionapp.com/[06:43:43] <TEttinger> except for 2d games[06:43:50] <horribleProgram> yeah, 2d games are 3d[06:44:25] <TEttinger> 4 spatial dimensions are really hard to wrap your brain around. like the intersection of two circles in 4D is another circle[06:45:14] <TEttinger> I have a 6D simplex noise impl that I've optimized but don't exactly understand the math underlying it[06:45:46] <TEttinger> I mean a 6d simplex is easy enough, but I have no idea what their honeycomb is[06:51:42] <TEttinger> hm, that makes me wonder about some other basis for continuous noise...[06:53:46] <horribleProgram> ?[06:56:32] <TEttinger> I've done little experiments on different ways perlin-like noise could be made without the requirement for a simplex lattice to be known and coded for a given dimensionality of noise. classic perlin noise scales cleanly up to very high dimensions, but gets really slow[06:57:15] <TEttinger> since it needs the hash of pow(2, d) corners to be calculated, and each hash gets harder to calculate with more dimensions[06:57:38] <TEttinger> so 2d needs 4 corners (of a square), 3d needs 8 (of a cube), 4d needs 16...[06:58:49] <TEttinger> simplex noise only needs d+2 corners to be hashed[06:58:53] <TEttinger> err, + 1[06:59:21] <TEttinger> in 2d it's a triangle, in 3D it's a tetrahedron (4 corners), in 4d it's something weird[06:59:25] <TEttinger> (5 corners)[07:13:32] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@191.255.154.48> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[07:45:16] *** Neel <Neel!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has joined #libgdx[08:57:24] *** Neel <Neel!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[09:02:50] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has joined #libgdx[09:27:07] *** OtakuSenpai is now known as Nawab[09:27:31] *** Nawab is now known as Neel[09:28:38] *** cackling_ladies <cackling_ladies!~cackling_@117.0.251.112> has joined #libgdx[09:40:03] *** horribleProgram <horribleProgram!~quassel@unaffiliated/horribleprogram> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:38:34] *** Oebele <Oebele!~quassel@143.177.58.202> has joined #libgdx[10:52:43] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@p200300F4E3C353003CC537BD469F7647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[12:08:24] *** cackling_grandma 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<codi^r!~CoDi@p200300F4E3C353003CC537BD469F7647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[15:26:42] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has joined #libgdx[15:32:11] *** bomb <bomb!bomb@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/bomb> has joined #libgdx[15:32:20] <bomb> guys, listen to this[15:32:37] <bomb> LibGDX + JRE package == 13MB![15:33:34] <bomb> this jlink thing works like a charm. you strip off everything you don't need, like CORBA or XML, and you'll get a compact JRE![15:38:13] <bomb> then bundle your jar with it using launch4j or javapackager. then your libgdx game is ready for Steam, Mac App Store and even freaking Windows Store![15:48:01] *** []J <[]J!~Z@115.63.174.124> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[15:56:15] *** DranikProgrammer <DranikProgrammer!~vlad@82.209.215.9> has joined #libgdx[15:57:39] <FattyOwl> cool bomb[15:58:51] *** cackling_ladies <cackling_ladies!~cackling_@117.0.251.112> has joined #libgdx[15:59:20] <bomb> apparently you can use 7zip to make a self-extracting archive, and it's 10MB thanks to LZMA[15:59:46] <FattyOwl> how big was it before[15:59:53] <Ashiren> or you could make bomb-zip[16:00:25] <bomb> uncompressed JRE is 35MB, contains only java.base module[16:00:47] <bomb> but that's all you need anyway: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/10/docs/api/java.base-summary.html[16:01:12] <FattyOwl> that's java 10 though[16:01:19] <bomb> and?[16:01:26] <FattyOwl> does that even play nice with android dev[16:02:10] <bomb> no idea. i used Azul Zulu;s JDK to build the JRE[16:02:43] <FattyOwl> um[16:03:47] <bomb> for JVM trimming using jlink you need either Java 9 or 10 anyway[16:07:00] <FattyOwl> good to learn about this though https://github.com/giltene/jHiccup[16:10:11] *** []J <[]J!~Z@115.63.173.253> has joined #libgdx[16:16:32] <bomb> speaking of JVM[16:16:54] <bomb> anyone tried Graal and Truffle?[16:20:26] *** Zta <Zta!~stephan@static-5-186-52-63.ip.fibianet.dk> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:22:40] *** Zta <Zta!~stephan@static-5-186-52-63.ip.fibianet.dk> has joined #libgdx[16:49:36] *** Oebele <Oebele!~quassel@143.177.58.202> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:55:57] *** Neel <Neel!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has joined #libgdx[17:13:58] *** Neel <Neel!~OtakuSenp@117.194.193.77> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[17:32:10] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has quit IRC (Quit: https://i.imgur.com/xrUtDu3.gif)[17:42:29] *** Bokudesuu <Bokudesuu!~Bokudesu@79-69-48-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> has joined #libgdx[17:43:34] *** dsbk <dsbk!~Bokudesu@79-69-48-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[17:47:34] *** intrigus <intrigus!uid114902@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmuwsaxqbytpmjxe> has joined #libgdx[17:49:05] *** jwinterm <jwinterm!~quassel@unaffiliated/jwinterm> has joined #libgdx[18:44:37] <DranikProgrammer> I see it just as a thing to play with[18:57:42] *** cackling_grandma <cackling_grandma!~cackling_@117.0.251.112> has joined #libgdx[19:01:20] *** cackling_ladies <cackling_ladies!~cackling_@117.0.251.112> 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#libgdx[20:27:28] *** LuaKT <LuaKT!~LuaKT@luakt.net> has joined #libgdx[20:27:28] *** LuaKT <LuaKT!~LuaKT@luakt.net> has quit IRC (Changing host)[20:27:28] *** LuaKT <LuaKT!~LuaKT@unaffiliated/luakt> has joined #libgdx[20:40:05] *** vector2718 <vector2718!~vector271@ip-78-45-150-57.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:43:42] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@p200300F4E3C353003CC537BD469F7647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[20:43:59] *** []J <[]J!~Z@115.63.173.253> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[20:44:00] *** kjeldahl <kjeldahl!~kjeldahl@124.205.189.109.customer.cdi.no> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[20:44:00] *** the_al <the_al!~al@unaffiliated/the-al/x-0324965> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[20:44:03] *** Megumiin <Megumiin!~Megumiin@unaffiliated/megumiin> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[20:44:08] *** the_al <the_al!~al@unaffiliated/the-al/x-0324965> has joined #libgdx[20:44:24] *** kjeldahl <kjeldahl!~kjeldahl@124.205.189.109.customer.cdi.no> has joined #libgdx[20:44:36] *** Megumiin <Megumiin!~Megumiin@unaffiliated/megumiin> has joined #libgdx[20:47:19] *** Shockah <Shockah!~PircBotX@63.ip-92-222-74.eu> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[20:47:27] *** Shockah <Shockah!~PircBotX@63.ip-92-222-74.eu> has joined #libgdx[20:50:13] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has joined #libgdx[21:14:22] *** []J <[]J!~Z@115.63.173.253> has joined #libgdx[21:23:07] <TEttinger> bomb: huh, I thought some module info in libgdx was needed to use jlink[21:36:52] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:37:34] <TEttinger> bomb: if you followed any resources to get you to 10MB bundles, do you have links to those resources?[21:38:56] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkbuatnhirsephqq> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[21:41:26] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has joined #libgdx[21:45:28] *** segurb 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