May 3, 2018 
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May 3, 2018 [00:07:58] *** dsbk <dsbk!~Bokudesu@79-69-48-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:09:51] *** ryanastout <ryanastout!180e4373@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.14.67.115> has joined #libgdx[00:14:24] *** ryanastout <ryanastout!180e4373@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.14.67.115> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[00:48:17] *** Frotty <Frotty!~FrottyZao@ip-178-201-132-41.hsi08.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:49:10] *** Frotty <Frotty!~FrottyZao@ip-178-201-132-41.hsi08.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #libgdx[00:50:09] *** Frotty <Frotty!~FrottyZao@ip-178-201-132-41.hsi08.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[00:52:58] *** Frotty <Frotty!~FrottyZao@ip-178-201-132-41.hsi08.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #libgdx[00:54:03] *** Frotty <Frotty!~FrottyZao@ip-178-201-132-41.hsi08.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[00:57:44] *** Frotty <Frotty!~FrottyZao@ip-178-201-132-41.hsi08.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #libgdx[01:03:40] *** lhro <lhro!~Lee@li732-135.members.linode.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Quit)[01:05:34] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has joined #libgdx[01:06:23] *** gerds0n <gerds0n!~textual@ipbcc3188b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Quitting...)[01:09:14] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@ip4d179dca.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[01:09:41] *** qaisjp_ <qaisjp_!sid26374@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtxpyuthdiwhqiva> has joined #libgdx[01:15:33] *** the__al <the__al!~al@2001:bc8:23ca::> has joined #libgdx[01:16:10] *** Krash_ <Krash_!~Krash@the.time.cab> has joined #libgdx[01:16:20] *** bhldev <bhldev!~bhldev@69-165-248-89.cable.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:16:44] *** bhldev <bhldev!~bhldev@69-165-248-89.cable.teksavvy.com> has joined #libgdx[01:16:46] *** Gratin[m] <Gratin[m]!gratinmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nyzubtiblotuxvip> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[01:16:47] *** qaisjp <qaisjp!sid26374@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qeueuwrctntsatku> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[01:16:47] *** the_al <the_al!~al@unaffiliated/the-al/x-0324965> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[01:16:48] *** Krash <Krash!~Krash@the.time.cab> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[01:16:48] *** the__al is now known as the_al[01:16:48] *** qaisjp_ is now known as qaisjp[01:16:51] *** Krash_ is now known as Krash[01:17:30] *** bhldev <bhldev!~bhldev@69-165-248-89.cable.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:18:16] *** bhldev <bhldev!~bhldev@69-165-248-89.cable.teksavvy.com> has joined #libgdx[01:23:46] *** Gratin[m] <Gratin[m]!gratinmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bjyrdfrgjkppjaor> has joined #libgdx[01:24:54] *** the_al is now known as the_al2[01:24:55] *** the_al2 is now known as the_al[01:25:18] *** the_al <the_al!~al@2001:bc8:23ca::> has quit IRC (Changing host)[01:25:18] *** the_al <the_al!~al@unaffiliated/the-al/x-0324965> has joined #libgdx[01:26:28] *** luisfpetrucci <luisfpetrucci!~LDuque@vpn.azende.com> has joined #libgdx[01:47:57] *** isdera <isdera!~isdera@cpe-74-78-187-102.maine.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[02:05:11] *** intrigus <intrigus!uid114902@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijrqeupyxdilqyxw> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[02:08:30] *** isdera <isdera!~isdera@cpe-74-78-187-102.maine.res.rr.com> has joined #libgdx[02:12:57] *** isdera <isdera!~isdera@cpe-74-78-187-102.maine.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[02:15:23] *** luisfpetrucci <luisfpetrucci!~LDuque@vpn.azende.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:21:45] *** blahblah_ <blahblah_!~bigtest@78.192.105.72> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[02:46:20] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:46:44] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has joined #libgdx[03:16:08] *** DB219 <DB219!4344a212@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.68.162.18> has joined #libgdx[03:27:52] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdyuaeqwyxjlvqih> has joined #libgdx[03:41:56] <grim001> crushed several items on my to-do list[03:42:24] <grim001> full multisampling support with custom resolve[03:48:54] *** guardianxxx <guardianxxx!~guardian@b4FFD.static.pacific.net.au> has joined #libgdx[03:57:17] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has joined #libgdx[04:13:38] *** guardianxx <guardianxx!~guardian@b4FFD.static.pacific.net.au> has joined #libgdx[04:16:57] *** guardianxxx <guardianxxx!~guardian@b4FFD.static.pacific.net.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:37:05] *** DB219 <DB219!4344a212@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.68.162.18> has quit IRC ()[04:39:32] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: bye.)[04:46:24] *** guardianxx <guardianxx!~guardian@b4FFD.static.pacific.net.au> has quit IRC ()[04:57:43] *** guardianxxx <guardianxxx!~guardian@b4FFD.static.pacific.net.au> has joined #libgdx[05:35:27] <SuckyNoob> nice[05:36:05] <grim001> apparently I'm strange for wanting MSAA on my UI layer[05:36:29] <SuckyNoob> hmm I dunno I prefer a nice sleak UI as well[05:36:47] <grim001> so you need a custom resolve to get MSAA to play with alpha blending[05:37:12] <grim001> or really, a different custom resolve shader for each number of possible samples[05:38:11] <SuckyNoob> I'll keep that in mind for the future. Right now I am working on roguelike type stuff, so I dont need anything quite like that yet[05:38:28] <SuckyNoob> is it you that has the isometric game?[05:38:34] <grim001> yes[05:38:36] <SuckyNoob> with the goat and wolf and such[05:38:37] <SuckyNoob> nice[05:38:52] <SuckyNoob> An RPG right?[05:39:14] <grim001> yes, that one[05:39:38] <SuckyNoob> will it be like baldurs gate or more like diablo?[05:40:27] <grim001> baldur's gate and diablo are both on my inspirations list, but I would say more Ultima-like than either of those[05:40:46] <SuckyNoob> oh ya I like Ultima too, tho was a bit too young to have played it as a kid[05:41:01] <SuckyNoob> always wanted Ultima online but my parents wouldnt get it haha[05:41:29] <SuckyNoob> that was a long time ago. Sweet when do you think it'll be ready for release?[05:41:44] <grim001> Ultima Online had some great combat mechanics that were obscured by design choices that practically made 3rd party helper software and tons of macros needed[05:42:06] <SuckyNoob> I just remember reading on the box I could build a house and a boat and have a horse :P[05:42:24] <SuckyNoob> I've since tried it a couple years ago. Looks like it would have been fun in it's day[05:43:10] <SuckyNoob> watched someone play Ultima 8 the iso one. Too bad they didnt make it better with more classes and less linear etc, more variety in terrains[05:43:15] <grim001> over the last couple years I've taken that Ultima-like skeleton and added unique ideas and streamlined combat/controls[05:43:28] <SuckyNoob> nice can't wait, I love RPG's[05:43:39] <grim001> not going to be ready anytime soon though[05:43:57] <SuckyNoob> mine either haha, I might have to go back to work and keep working on it on my offtime[05:47:03] <SuckyNoob> trying to figure out where this game will fit in my storyline right now[05:47:15] <SuckyNoob> before I finish planning the ECS[05:50:15] <grim001> the best part of Ultima Online's combat was its magic system, which gave you a spellbook with 64 different spells. problem is you would need dozens of macros to use all of the useful ones[05:50:49] <grim001> togther with 3rd party software, I typically had over 50 keybindings with various modifier keys, and some complex macros[05:51:34] <SuckyNoob> hmm ya mine will have a lot of spells too I hadn't thought of that yet. I'll have to make some sort of nested UI thats easy to use and find what you're looking for[05:52:32] <grim001> I needed a magic system with a large number of spells, but without the need for individual keybindings[05:52:55] <grim001> although I feel like the majority of indie games, particularly the popular ones, have tried very hard to be streamlined[05:53:24] <grim001> down to the point where you can play them with a few buttons on a controller, also to facilitate console ports[05:55:15] <grim001> I want to hit the sweet spot between streamlined controls and mechanics and the full MMO-like complexity not typically seen in a single player game[05:56:30] <SuckyNoob> ya me too same goal. Maybe not MMO complexity tho[05:57:44] <grim001> so my approach has been to put way too many ingredients in the soup, and let it condense over time until only the essence remains[05:58:01] <grim001> I've probably forgotten more ideas than I've retained at this point[05:58:38] <SuckyNoob> I have a giant porfolio folder full of graph paper with ideas, categorized etc[05:58:47] <SuckyNoob> it keeps getting bigger[05:58:54] <SuckyNoob> well not lately actually[05:59:00] <SuckyNoob> and not all for the same game[06:00:52] <grim001> what is your main project[06:01:44] <SuckyNoob> Well after Im done this C tutorial on the roguelike and ECS and the algorithms inside it. I will probably continue with my strategy game cause it's the easiest[06:01:57] <SuckyNoob> though now I'm starting to want to make an RPG as I go through this roguelike tutorial lol[06:02:53] <SuckyNoob> I have plans for both and probably one or 2 other genres. All a part of the same series/grand story type thing[06:03:35] <SuckyNoob> I'd call it my main project cause I'm more passionate about the story these games would take place in. I have other ideas for like city builders, managerial games etc[06:04:33] <SuckyNoob> but they don't hold my interest as much, to keep on learning etc[06:04:55] <grim001> it takes years to make a single game, better to focus all your energy onto one goal imo[06:05:03] <grim001> once you find the right one[06:05:12] <grim001> everything before that is just for fun and experimentation[06:05:25] <SuckyNoob> ya for sure. It's only one goal. I would make them in series not parallel[06:05:47] <SuckyNoob> though never know there could be some advantages to that, haha. after I get the first one down I'm sure others in the series will share some things[06:07:57] <SuckyNoob> they are self contained stories too[06:08:01] <bomb> 🐦[06:08:06] <SuckyNoob> they just exist in a bigger story[06:08:20] <bomb> i like snapchat stories of hawt checks[06:08:43] <SuckyNoob> though getting a roguelike to fit into the story is proving a bit challenging haha[06:08:51] <SuckyNoob> hawt checks?[06:08:59] <SuckyNoob> hot chics?[06:09:30] <TEttinger> haute czechs[06:09:37] <TEttinger> https://i.imgur.com/vLHWLJ8.gifv[06:09:49] <TEttinger> I can't believe it's not approximated atan2![06:09:50] <bomb> not tits ^[06:10:03] <TEttinger> it is round[06:10:16] <SuckyNoob> Have you tried making earth with it yet?[06:10:27] <bomb> i believe it's flat[06:10:36] <TEttinger> SuckyNoob: yep![06:10:43] <TEttinger> not with the view from space[06:10:58] <SuckyNoob> cool[06:18:57] <SuckyNoob> lol thought u were gonna post one :P[06:24:48] <TEttinger> http://squidpony.github.io/SquidLib/MimicWorld.png[06:25:11] <TEttinger> climate is random, positions are from a ma[06:25:12] <TEttinger> p[06:26:39] <SuckyNoob> ah wow that looks nice[06:26:51] <SuckyNoob> now I just need some settlers and scouts and a warrior[06:27:20] <SuckyNoob> :P[06:31:40] <SuckyNoob> I think I figured out how I can mix the RL into the story. If I take part of what was supposed to be a game with a story (and inject the story from that into "visions" the player will have, no matter what race/class combo they choose to play as.[06:32:15] <SuckyNoob> that might be really overdone tho[06:40:13] *** echelog <echelog!~echelog@108.61.103.42> has joined #libgdx[07:10:04] <grim001> I also went through a short phase of trying to mix RL elements into my story[07:11:52] <SuckyNoob> I'm going over it now, I just need to rewrite one section of the timeline[07:12:14] <SuckyNoob> no one got the reference to Civilization :P about settlers and TEttingers pic[07:12:15] <SuckyNoob> ah well[07:12:16] <SuckyNoob> lol[07:12:24] <SuckyNoob> What did you end up deciding grim001[07:14:05] <grim001> those were really early ideas that I dropped a long time ago[07:15:54] <grim001> it would split the focus of the story too much[07:16:40] <grim001> and it can be a cop out from developing the story's unique themes to just bring real life elements into it[07:19:56] <grim001> I have always placed story at the bottom of the heirarchy of ideas for developing a game[07:20:19] <grim001> which means, when people ask me about the story and what the game "is about" they don't get a very satisfying answer[07:21:03] <SuckyNoob> I think I may be able to pull it off. The problem for me is. The really story heavy games in the series (if it ever takes off), with the most emotional impacts (hopefully) would require traditional animation for cutscenes etc. Too much for my plate right now, and I don't have enough money to hire a bunch of people. So if I can just make a game thats fun, and that introduces to the bigger story, but leaves some mystery or[07:21:03] <SuckyNoob> something then it'll hopefully get people to want to play the next ones. To uncover the lore etc. Nothing like Assassins creed games tho, they push that shit too far[07:21:16] <SuckyNoob> haha[07:21:31] <SuckyNoob> that's okay I'd rather play it than ask you to tell it to me, and discover the story on my own if there is one[07:21:49] <grim001> take a page from a game like Undertale (I haven't played it, I've only watched the first 30 minutes or so)[07:22:04] <grim001> very little in the way of graphics, but the writing alone is enough to carry the emotional impact of the story[07:22:08] <SuckyNoob> haven't heard of that[07:22:48] <SuckyNoob> Ya I want the games to be probably 1/4 to a 1/3rd of the focus of the game, otherwise i want to make interesting gameplay[07:22:50] <SuckyNoob> for the rest[07:23:14] <grim001> when I say story goes at the bottom of the heirarchy of ideas, I don't mean that it's last place in importance[07:23:15] <SuckyNoob> So I'm pretty much the same as you, I just add story cause I also like to make stories haha[07:23:36] <SuckyNoob> ya for sure I know what u mean[07:23:37] <grim001> I just mean that game mechanics come first, because you don't have a game without mechanics, and it won't be a good game without good mechanics[07:23:52] <grim001> then you need a world and a story that exploit those game mechanics to their fullest[07:24:17] <grim001> developing the game's mechanics is part of the process of discovering them[07:24:46] <SuckyNoob> for sure. I just want to get this outta the way (I already did a whole writeup etc). Just need to edit it a bit. Only cause it's bugging my brain while I'm trying to plan out my systems for the ECS, and distracting me haha[07:24:46] <grim001> so once you have a working sandbox of game elements, you can "feel" what the game is about, and create a suitable environment[07:24:58] <SuckyNoob> Oh I see, ya I do it opposite[07:25:14] <SuckyNoob> have to come up with a universe too in my head then play around with ideas of what I can do in it[07:25:43] <grim001> I think that sort of approach is more suitable for movies, books and other non-interactive mediums[07:25:52] <SuckyNoob> then i usually write down some sort of pseudo codish stuff to see what might work then refine that for a bit til I've got something I'm satisfied I should go ahead and start coding[07:26:19] <SuckyNoob> it works for this too[07:26:25] <SuckyNoob> you just gotta imagine playing the game[07:26:34] <grim001> you don't have a game until you've discovered some really interesting set of mechanics to exploit or at least refine beyond what's been done before[07:26:36] <SuckyNoob> you probably do it all the time[07:27:09] <SuckyNoob> ya I've read alot and watched alot, (and played alot =) ) of games[07:27:21] <SuckyNoob> but coding them ya, definitely a different story[07:27:55] <grim001> which one are you working on? the strategy game or the roguelike?[07:28:42] <SuckyNoob> right now im just doing a rL tutorial in C, but I left off on the strategy game. Which now, if I wanted, I could even mix them together probably haha. Most of the concepts and algorithms are the same for a TBS and RL[07:29:11] <SuckyNoob> and I am going to rewrite what I have for the strategy one with ECS either way[07:29:42] <grim001> so what gameplay elements are going to make this an exceptional RTS or roguelike game compared to other indie games released within the past few years, or other major products that people are familiar with?[07:29:50] <SuckyNoob> which wasn't all that much. Thats where all the graph paper comes in, I already planned it out, so now that I need to rewrite it (cause ECS is better) I can just change some stuff up[07:30:10] <SuckyNoob> It's a secret haha[07:30:40] <grim001> fair enough, I'd say the same if someone probed me for all of my game's ideas, although I could always offer a synopsis[07:30:42] <SuckyNoob> hopefully you'll see if it gets released and is popular (fingers crossed)[07:30:59] <SuckyNoob> I love talking ideas tho dont get me wrong[07:31:17] <SuckyNoob> There will be a story, most RL's dont have that[07:31:36] <SuckyNoob> and the strategy one, is based on tried and true ideas, that I was gonna make better[07:31:51] <SuckyNoob> and at the same time they're all games I want to play, that don't exist[07:32:01] <SuckyNoob> (that aren't overly ambitious)[07:32:26] <grim001> you might have better luck combining them. a roguelike RTS sounds like an interesting idea[07:32:48] <grim001> a roguelike with a story, or a "better" RTS aren't particularly exceptional ideas by themselves[07:33:04] <SuckyNoob> I think I might stick to TBS, RTS I'm not too confident in my skills I could pull off[07:33:32] <grim001> it takes years to make a game, your goal should be set based on the skills you want to develop, not what you have right now[07:33:39] <SuckyNoob> definitely there are other gameplay elements that I think are novel (they aren't really fully worked out yet tho, and some of them secret)[07:34:05] <grim001> I knew absolutely nothing about graphics programming when I started developing my game[07:34:21] <SuckyNoob> only reason I treat some things secret is cause someone once told me "Ideas are worthless" and they've signed NDA agreements etc and trash talked them lol[07:34:31] <grim001> but I had a particular vision for what I wanted it to look like I kept moving toward that incrementally for a couple years[07:35:01] <SuckyNoob> which i highly disagree. That's how technology gets buried etc. Is talking about ideas without patenting them or something first. Then some big multinational comes along and either buries it or steals it[07:35:19] <SuckyNoob> software isnt as serious I guess but its the principle :P[07:35:28] <SuckyNoob> Ya I think it looks great[07:36:03] <SuckyNoob> I haven't gone deep into the graphics, like using OpenGL directly[07:36:31] <grim001> my engine is written with LWJGL which is just a java wrapper for direct OpenGL access[07:37:51] <grim001> generally using a pre-existing engine is a better idea[07:38:16] <SuckyNoob> Agreed, I wouldn't try doing it from complete scratch. Way out of my league lol[07:38:28] <grim001> but I had some unique goals in mind, and I wanted to learn at the same time[07:38:35] <SuckyNoob> if I spent a few years learning maybe not, but that's a lot of time[07:39:26] <SuckyNoob> Ah so you wrote one from scratch then[07:41:08] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~Neel@117.194.219.113> has joined #libgdx[07:41:52] <grim001> at this point I'm very glad to have the unlimited freedom[07:42:08] <grim001> plenty of things I wouldn't have been able to do with the constraints of any pre-existing engine[07:43:58] <SuckyNoob> Ya freedom is good. This C gives a lot of freedom. Or I dunno I find it easier to learn/follow. Probably cause it's older[07:45:17] <SuckyNoob> and there are lots of libs for stuff. I'm just now the last couple months getting into the wonderful world of libs haha, been going through lots of them[07:45:27] <grim001> how are you going to use libGDX if it's in C?[07:45:46] <SuckyNoob> libgdx was also easy to learn[07:45:57] <SuckyNoob> I'm not using gdx atm[07:46:28] <SuckyNoob> easier at least[07:46:39] <SuckyNoob> than others I've tried[07:48:16] <grim001> being in java makes it easier to use[07:48:19] <SuckyNoob> I haven't decided what to use yet like I said I am rewriting the strategy one. Or mashing it into the RL. So it's a choice between Haxe/Haxeflixel, Libgdx, SFML, or this bearterminal[07:48:31] <SuckyNoob> I dunno I like C without all the inheritance tbh haha[07:48:41] <SuckyNoob> especially now that I've been learning to do ECS with it[07:49:20] <SuckyNoob> I have been planning on finding some stuff to read and watch on why C++ and OOP languages are better tho, now that I somewhat know how C works[07:50:23] <grim001> OOP is pointless if you don't have a firm understanding of how it works[07:50:42] <grim001> and for people that do enjoy using it a little too much, they tend to create a house of cards that is quite fragile[07:52:02] <SuckyNoob> what do you mean[07:52:43] <SuckyNoob> about the house of cards I mean[07:52:58] <grim001> giant inheritance heirarchies tend to not be flexible enough to create modular and reusable code for games[07:53:17] <grim001> and a major change somewhere in that hierachy can break everything dependent upon it[07:53:41] <grim001> that is one of the reasons that some people prefer the ECS style[07:53:55] <SuckyNoob> indeed, so in that case why not use C?[07:54:14] <SuckyNoob> if you are trying to not use inheritance anyway?[07:54:31] <SuckyNoob> thats why I was going to look up videos[07:55:01] <SuckyNoob> I started with learning C++ til it got too hard haha, or I ran into something I could do so tried out other stuff, which eventually led to GDx now I'm doing this other thing[07:56:07] <SuckyNoob> ive tried engines too, like godot. Still haven't learned to use it 100% though. Not really a fan of the scripting and scripts[07:56:18] <grim001> it's not that inheritance is bad, it's just that people who don't have enough experience tend to overuse it or use it badly[07:57:31] <SuckyNoob> hmm I guess I should have said. If you're doing ECS anyway, what really needs to be inherited?[07:57:53] <SuckyNoob> I guess the higher level langauges have other stuff available to them though don't they[07:57:59] <SuckyNoob> like math stuff etc[07:58:21] <SuckyNoob> I'm not really sure[07:58:38] <grim001> higher level languages don't offer any advantage when it comes to math... except maybe operator overloading which java lacks anyway[07:59:03] <grim001> it is true that ECS style game programming is well suited to lower level languages than java[07:59:33] <SuckyNoob> ah I remember now[07:59:44] <SuckyNoob> java is a VM right you can put it on many many things[07:59:59] <grim001> the other justification for ECS style game programming is that it shoves a lot of data into contiguous memory space in arrays which improves cache efficiency[08:00:24] <SuckyNoob> ya I've read a lot about that, cache hits and misses etc[08:00:41] <grim001> java's coding style makes this difficult, since you're always dereferencing objects and chasing pointers and jumping around to different memory locations if you code idiomatically (not pretending you're in C)[08:02:52] <SuckyNoob> so what are the advantages then?[08:03:07] *** LionKing <LionKing!29e1936e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.225.147.110> has joined #libgdx[08:03:25] <grim001> normally you'd say that java has a lot of libraries, but that's not really the case for game dev, most of the libs are C++ for that[08:03:47] <SuckyNoob> so javas libs are more for business apps etc[08:03:54] <TEttinger> there's still a lot of java code out there[08:03:56] <SuckyNoob> and web apps[08:04:00] <TEttinger> some of it is useful for gamedev[08:04:09] <SuckyNoob> ya squidlib thats huge lol[08:04:14] <TEttinger> haa[08:04:17] <SuckyNoob> so many files[08:04:18] <TEttinger> it is though[08:04:20] <SuckyNoob> or code I mean[08:04:26] <TEttinger> much files. such codes[08:04:46] <grim001> java has portability, consistency in its language spec wrt memory and threading behavior, a good stable language design if you're a fan of OOP (which I am), and it's very fast despite what critics say[08:04:51] <TEttinger> but Java's also fairly easy to port code to[08:05:29] <TEttinger> I've ported Clojure, C#, C, and C++ code to Java in my current project[08:05:33] <SuckyNoob> I've never been making anything that had any need to run faster than what I have seen java do. Perhaps blank projects take a bit more memory tho[08:06:17] <grim001> the best argument is that using a higher level language can speed up development time and reduce errors- without actually harming real world performance much for indie games[08:06:41] <grim001> which basically leaves you with java or C# as options, everything else is too slow[08:06:50] <grim001> amongst the higher level languages[08:07:17] <grim001> there's also the JVM language variants like clojure or whatever flavor you enjoy[08:07:36] <guardianxxx> agreed[08:07:47] <guardianxxx> java and c# are as high level as i'd want to use[08:08:00] <guardianxxx> but if you're doing a very simple game, something like lua with love2d would be ok[08:08:10] <SuckyNoob> well I think I've written a program in C++, C#, Java, Haxe, Godot GDScript, and C now[08:08:27] <SuckyNoob> So as I get better I'm sure I'll develop a taste for one[08:09:08] <SuckyNoob> I also like robotics etc, and am interested in machines etc. So that's why I've been sticking more around the C++ and java[08:09:25] <SuckyNoob> I guess python would be good for that too[08:10:03] <SuckyNoob> there are so many, I've seen lua and love2d etc, and then I've heard people talk about programming in lisp etc, there are too many[08:10:03] <grim001> I don't think robots move fast enough to care how fast the programming language that runs them is... but that's just a guess[08:10:07] <TEttinger> I thought this description of why bitwise ops are easier in Java than C was interesting https://www.nayuki.io/page/some-bit-twiddling-functions-explained[08:10:26] <TEttinger> grim001: drones[08:10:31] <TEttinger> anything that flies[08:10:33] <grim001> yeah, true[08:11:41] <TEttinger> a weirdly high amount of flight software is done in Ada I think, though mainly due to its old military history[08:11:53] *** LionKing <LionKing!29e1936e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.225.147.110> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[08:12:07] <TEttinger> like the software that flies big ol' passenger jts[08:12:08] <TEttinger> jets[08:13:31] <guardianxxx> yep[08:13:34] <TEttinger> the biggest effect on performance is usually not language but algorithms[08:13:47] <guardianxxx> i want to check out ada some time, but it's pretty low priority thing, just for fun[08:13:49] <TEttinger> at least if your dataset is large enough to matter[08:14:06] <TEttinger> Ada seems pretty painfully verbose, but it has neat features[08:14:20] <guardianxxx> i use java, verbose is ok[08:14:34] <SuckyNoob> I'd need to go down the rabbit hole another level or two I think to start learning about that stuff[08:14:39] <TEttinger> like declaring a type that has valid integer values from 0 to 99, if you assign 100 it wraps to 0[08:14:44] <SuckyNoob> like how the compilers do their things and languages are written etc?[08:15:13] <TEttinger> yeah, you'd want to know some lisp to write a language, or you could learn forth by writing a forth[08:15:22] <SuckyNoob> lol[08:15:27] <TEttinger> forth is often learned by implementing[08:15:38] <guardianxxx> i couldn't care less how compilers work, but i want to create cool apps[08:15:40] <SuckyNoob> never heard of that[08:15:41] <TEttinger> very small, customized languages[08:15:57] <SuckyNoob> ya me too I dont care at the moment how all of it works just that it does, til I can make a game lol[08:16:17] <SuckyNoob> unless its something I need to know, theres just too much of it TOO know :P[08:16:26] <guardianxxx> mmhmm[08:16:41] <TEttinger> forth is notable because it can run on almost nothing for hardware reqs. I've used a forth interpreter to interact with the power and fans of a server that was powered of[08:16:41] <TEttinger> f[08:16:55] <SuckyNoob> interesting[08:17:25] <TEttinger> it was using the very low current it got from being plugged in but off[08:18:04] <TEttinger> factor is a more real-world-oriented forth, but it's rather weird[08:18:17] <myke> iirc the second stage freebsd boot loader is written in forth[08:18:24] <TEttinger> sounds right[08:18:36] <TEttinger> starlight was an early EA game written mostly in forth[08:19:26] <TEttinger> page 29: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oflcdvc7dolstip/Forth.pdf?dl=0[08:19:34] <TEttinger> fascinating interview with the devs[08:23:26] <SuckyNoob> so could you turn on the server then?[08:23:40] <SuckyNoob> while it was off[08:24:11] <guardianxxx> and what was the program running on?[08:27:13] <TEttinger> guardianxxx: the Lights Out Management module of that server, a Sun Netra X1[08:27:31] <TEttinger> real chunk of garbage by the time I got one for free from by brother's college dumpster[08:27:38] <TEttinger> actually, 17 for free[08:27:54] <guardianxxx> ok[08:27:55] <TEttinger> they're from 2001 and i got them in... 2009 or later[08:28:32] <TEttinger> LO or LOM is a common acronym in server hardware, at least from that period[08:29:08] <guardianxxx> i see[08:30:04] <TEttinger> I don't know how its memory worked... you could define a small amount of forth words, I think[08:30:38] <TEttinger> do the ol' "1 2 +"[08:39:59] *** mk1 <mk1!5098fe1b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.152.254.27> has joined #libgdx[09:02:30] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdyuaeqwyxjlvqih> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[09:05:36] *** smelc <smelc!~churlin@4be54-1-81-56-4-73.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #libgdx[09:17:57] *** LionKing <LionKing!29e1936e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.225.147.110> has joined #libgdx[09:18:12] <LionKing> Good morning everyone[09:22:24] <LionKing> Where can I advertise an indie game for free ? it is a very good one.[09:22:29] <LionKing> thank you in advance[09:34:10] <LionKing> I guess you guys are working, so good day :)[09:34:14] <LionKing> peace[09:34:18] *** LionKing <LionKing!29e1936e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.225.147.110> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[09:36:40] <bomb> :|[09:37:04] *** guardianxxx <guardianxxx!~guardian@b4FFD.static.pacific.net.au> has quit IRC ()[09:53:56] <Tomski> magic[09:56:17] *** []J <[]J!~Z@115.63.174.106> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[10:00:34] <smiley_> :D[10:02:10] *** [AD]Turbo <[AD]Turbo!~ADTurbo@93-40-209-27.ip40.fastwebnet.it> has joined #libgdx[10:24:48] *** []J <[]J!~Z@115.63.170.14> has joined #libgdx[10:40:47] *** intrigus <intrigus!uid114902@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuqiicsrhwlmzits> has joined #libgdx[10:43:34] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has joined #libgdx[10:45:44] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~Neel@117.194.219.113> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[10:52:48] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fiefcqvoglyenfvm> has joined #libgdx[10:52:51] *** Alukoni <Alukoni!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has joined #libgdx[10:53:18] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD0860025888E462EDB0CF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[10:55:26] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[10:57:59] <SuckyNoob> speaking of magic, anyone here play that?[11:03:11] *** lhro <lhro!~Lee@li732-135.members.linode.com> has joined #libgdx[11:03:25] <mk1> magic is no game. you can really hurt ppl with it[11:03:40] <SuckyNoob> what lol[11:03:50] <mk1> j/k[11:03:59] <SuckyNoob> if I speed toss a card at them?[11:04:01] <mk1> I played occasionally with a few buddies[11:04:04] <SuckyNoob> Or you mean pride[11:04:11] <mk1> well, you should have specified Magic TCG[11:04:18] <SuckyNoob> lol[11:04:20] <mk1> magic is just magic[11:04:32] <Shockah> i like how you used the word "just"[11:04:46] <FattyOwl> i had a friend in highschool who forced me to play magic with him[11:04:52] <FattyOwl> he went on to win some tournaments[11:05:41] <mk1> yeah, they're always trying to convince you to play[11:05:47] <SuckyNoob> that's pretty cool. I only watched a few games people played in highschool. I've played some of the one on Steam tho, expensive game if you play it physically[11:06:21] *** Alukoni <Alukoni!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:06:29] <FattyOwl> yeah we actually mainly played with this software[11:06:33] <FattyOwl> can't remember what it's called[11:06:37] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD6D00001CAACD892C93C58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[11:06:50] *** Alukoni <Alukoni!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has joined #libgdx[11:07:12] <SuckyNoob> actually I think kids were playing it back in grade school now that I think about it[11:07:24] <SuckyNoob> its older than me im pretty sure[11:18:00] <mk1> published 1993[11:18:07] <SuckyNoob> played a game just got my ass whopped[11:18:11] <SuckyNoob> ah then I am older :P[11:20:39] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has joined #libgdx[11:22:58] <smiley_> speaking about games.. I saw Slay the Spire was quite high up on twitch toplist of streams yesterday[11:25:02] *** megasoft78 <megasoft78!~megasoft7@net-93-147-54-127.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #libgdx[11:25:33] <megasoft78> hi everyone[11:25:50] <megasoft78> I'm having a strange issue with libgdx html5[11:26:17] <megasoft78> when I try to run using gradlew html:superDev[11:26:46] <megasoft78> if I check with Chrome I can see the atlas been downloaded twice[11:27:16] <FattyOwl> https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/989396634848104449 are PhDs really the thing to put money into[11:27:28] <megasoft78> one say png and the other one xhr[11:28:44] <mk1> FattyOwl: what do you mean?[11:30:11] <FattyOwl> does funding PhDs have a good RoI[11:31:10] <grim001> I can create some really interesting abstract art by rendering my circles with a very low number of sides...[11:31:31] <mk1> which makes it a polygon[11:32:18] <grim001> they're always polygons[11:32:47] <grim001> they just happen to look like true circles if I use 128+ sides[11:35:39] <Ashiren> oO[11:40:40] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD6D00001CAACD892C93C58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[11:51:22] *** mutilator <mutilator!muti@c-73-144-231-9.hsd1.mi.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[11:52:58] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD7D50098BA9105FD0ED787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[11:59:31] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD7D50098BA9105FD0ED787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[12:07:13] <SuckyNoob> do you have other screenshots grim001?[12:11:53] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD822007CC434466A58CE3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[12:14:11] *** mk1 is now known as mk1_lunch[12:14:45] <SuckyNoob> mm lunch[12:27:54] *** cackling_ladies <cackling_ladies!~cackling_@117.5.165.228> has joined #libgdx[12:42:03] *** urluck <urluck!urluck@2604:180::680e:f05> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[12:42:18] *** urluck <urluck!~urluck@23.226.237.192> has joined #libgdx[12:43:39] <SuckyNoob> was just wondering what it looks like in the daytime[12:43:53] <SuckyNoob> in the game[12:52:36] *** bomb <bomb!bomb@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/bomb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[12:59:49] *** wheeler <wheeler!3efd5782@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.253.87.130> has joined #libgdx[13:02:59] *** RazielZ <RazielZ!~Raziel@unaffiliated/raziel> has joined #libgdx[13:23:36] *** bomb <bomb!bomb@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/bomb> has joined #libgdx[13:45:17] *** dsbk <dsbk!~Bokudesu@79-69-48-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> has joined #libgdx[13:59:41] *** mk1_lunch is now known as mk1[14:06:53] <SuckyNoob> mmm was it good lunch?[14:24:20] *** cackling_grandma <cackling_grandma!~cackling_@117.5.165.228> has joined #libgdx[14:28:11] *** cackling_ladies <cackling_ladies!~cackling_@117.5.165.228> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[14:58:10] *** [AD]Turbo <[AD]Turbo!~ADTurbo@93-40-209-27.ip40.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC ()[14:59:42] *** [AD]Turbo <[AD]Turbo!~ADTurbo@93-40-209-27.ip40.fastwebnet.it> has joined #libgdx[15:01:51] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBD822007CC434466A58CE3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:15:11] *** mipesom <mipesom!~mipesom@p200300E6EBDC7400F00DF7C591E9133D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[15:29:51] *** cackling_grandma <cackling_grandma!~cackling_@117.5.165.228> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[15:34:05] *** RazielZ is now known as Raziel[15:36:55] *** Alukoni is now known as Nawab[15:39:17] *** mutilator <mutilator!muti@c-73-144-231-9.hsd1.mi.comcast.net> has joined #libgdx[16:05:52] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has joined #libgdx[16:11:05] *** wheeler <wheeler!3efd5782@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.253.87.130> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[16:13:53] *** cackling_grandma <cackling_grandma!~cackling_@117.5.165.228> has joined #libgdx[16:36:20] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has quit IRC (Quit: https://i.imgur.com/xrUtDu3.gif)[17:04:54] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[17:08:31] *** smelc <smelc!~churlin@4be54-1-81-56-4-73.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[17:19:56] *** [AD]Turbo <[AD]Turbo!~ADTurbo@93-40-209-27.ip40.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC ()[17:20:14] *** intrigus <intrigus!uid114902@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuqiicsrhwlmzits> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[17:21:57] *** linuxfranz <linuxfranz!~franz@p54A53542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #libgdx[17:58:39] *** mk1 <mk1!5098fe1b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.152.254.27> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[18:11:01] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@201-93-223-135.dsl.telesp.net.br> has joined #libgdx[18:26:45] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[18:26:52] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@201-93-223-135.dsl.telesp.net.br> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:33:17] *** Oebele <Oebele!~quassel@143.177.58.202> has joined #libgdx[18:38:40] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has joined #libgdx[18:45:41] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has joined #libgdx[18:46:46] *** intrigus <intrigus!uid114902@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbqtrzqkgbmhjpmi> has joined #libgdx[18:49:38] *** Alukoni <Alukoni!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has joined #libgdx[18:50:43] *** dsbk <dsbk!~Bokudesu@79-69-48-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:52:14] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[19:13:52] *** Zta <Zta!~stephan@static-5-186-52-63.ip.fibianet.dk> has joined #libgdx[19:19:19] *** Alukoni is now known as Neel[19:31:52] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@ip4d179dca.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #libgdx[19:51:55] *** Neel <Neel!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:02:30] *** mujjingun <mujjingun!uid228218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fiefcqvoglyenfvm> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[20:13:14] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has joined #libgdx[20:17:20] *** mxttie <mxttie!~mattie@94-224-64-59.access.telenet.be> has joined #libgdx[20:20:46] *** mxttie <mxttie!~mattie@94-224-64-59.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:47:22] *** codi^r <codi^r!~CoDi@ip4d179dca.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[20:58:15] *** cackling_grandma <cackling_grandma!~cackling_@117.5.165.228> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:08:35] *** alyphen <alyphen!alyphen@znc.seventh-root.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Seeya!)[21:09:05] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:10:52] *** cobolfoo <cobolfoo!~cobolfoo@modemcable234.250-70-69.static.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[21:34:41] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has joined #libgdx[21:50:31] *** alyphen <alyphen!alyphen@znc.seventh-root.com> has joined #libgdx[21:57:45] *** bomb is now known as terrorist[22:00:05] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[22:00:32] *** linuxfranz <linuxfranz!~franz@p54A53542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[22:07:10] *** terrorist is now known as bomb[22:20:58] *** segurb <segurb!~segurb@unaffiliated/segurb> has quit IRC (Quit: https://i.imgur.com/xrUtDu3.gif)[22:32:55] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has joined #libgdx[22:33:19] *** Xoppa <Xoppa!~Xoppa@5468961A.cm-12-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #libgdx[22:33:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Xoppa[22:44:02] *** Oebele <Oebele!~quassel@143.177.58.202> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:46:20] *** oseph <oseph!~waxfigs@173-230-191-187.cable.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: bye.)[22:50:14] *** SuckyNoob <SuckyNoob!~SuckyNoob@2607:fea8:7d1f:fd54:f43d:31c2:90a:d0f8> has joined #libgdx[22:54:26] *** OtakuSenpai <OtakuSenpai!~Neel@117.194.199.11> has quit IRC (K-Lined)[23:08:12] *** megasoft78 <megasoft78!~megasoft7@net-93-147-54-127.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:42:01] <grim001> I can post some screenshots later today