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[00:07:45] <rpetti> Is there any way to 'lock' a node so it doesn't get deallocated?
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[00:10:05] <rpetti> I'm trying to get an online node for a particular job, but I'm afraid that once I get it, jenkins will turn it off before I can use it.
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[00:19:39] <kohsuke> rpetti: not that I can think of right now
[00:19:43] <kohsuke> I think it needs a new extension point
[00:19:52] <kohsuke> you want to temporarily disable RetentionStrategy
[00:19:54] <kohsuke> right?
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[00:29:56] <sietse> Is it also possible to aggregate other information downstream (i.e. cobertura report, findbugs output etc)?
[00:30:22] <kohsuke> good question. I don't know, but it seems like a good feature
[00:30:28] <kohsuke> I'd encourage filing an issue
[00:31:17] <sietse> ok, I will do that
[00:31:34] <DKo5> I'm getting an exception during build_log_regex - anyone around that can help?
[00:32:00] <DKo5> My regex seems simple enough.
[00:33:22] <jenkinsci_builds> Starting build 600 for job jenkins_main_trunk (previous build: SUCCESS)
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[00:45:33] <kohsuke> abayer: I see that the 'dogfood' support is off for plugins on ci.jenkins-ci.org --- is that intentional or just an oversight?
[00:45:42] <abayer> Oversight.
[00:45:48] <kohsuke> Thanks
[00:45:53] <abayer> Wait, no, that's a per-plugin thing.
[00:45:54] <abayer> I think.
[00:46:18] <kohsuke> So if the plugin owner wants it it's OK to flip it on
[00:46:26] <abayer> Yeah.
[00:46:30] <kohsuke> Thanks
[00:46:37] <kohsuke> Just double checking
[00:53:50] <mwhudson> is making a pull request on github the right way to get your patch looked at?
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[00:55:17] <kohsuke> Yes
[00:55:25] <kohsuke> Or poke us in the IRC or the dev list, which you are already doing
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[01:24:09] <mwhudson> cool
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[02:10:34] <rpetti> kohsuke: I think so. Our polling strategy involves looking for active slaves configured to run the job, and attempting to use those to poll the server.
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[02:11:45] <rpetti> kohsuke: The reason is that the perforce configuration provided by the user in the job is only really guaranteed to work in the environment for which it was configured, so we can't assume it will also work for the slave.
[02:12:42] <kohsuke> Oh, so you'll keep the slave online indefinitely? as opposed to just temporarily?
[02:12:57] <rpetti> I want to keep it online until the polling operation is complete.
[02:13:30] <rpetti> originally we were using requiresWorkpsaceForPolling=true, but that just causes continuous builds when running on-demand slaves.
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[02:15:47] <rpetti> basically I want it to look for online slaves for which it was configured and poll using them, or fall back to using the master if none are available.
[02:16:16] <rpetti> unfortunately, slaves like to just randomly shut off, either hanging the poll or generating a stack trace
[02:18:46] <rpetti> If there isn't already a mechanism for that, then I'll just need to add another option for those running their builds on on-demand slaves. So no big deal.
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[02:32:52] <mwhudson> kohsuke: thanks, now to work on something a bit less trivial :)
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[04:01:33] <mwhudson> sigh, my inexperiuehm
[04:01:34] <mwhudson> bah
[04:01:46] <mwhudson> is there some easy ish way of running plugins under the debugger?
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[04:04:50] <mwhudson> oh heh, seems the 'debug' button in netbeans does what i want :-)
[04:05:06] <mwhudson> well according to the docs anyway
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[04:15:24] <mwhudson> can i uninstall a plugin just by rm -rf ing the files from $JENKINS_HOME/plugins?
[04:15:36] <mwhudson> given that my instance doesn't start due to my fooling around :)
[04:16:17] <mwhudson> google suggests yes, and it's not like i have a lot to lose
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[05:15:14] <eskp> so i've installed notifo plugin, but can't find any configuration fields anywhere within jenkins interface ?!
[05:15:26] <eskp> does anyone use it and can point me in the right direction?
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[05:33:19] <eskp> i've also installed email-ext and irc bot but neither of them seem to work..
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[05:45:48] <eskp> irc bot and email-ext plugins don't notify of build fails
[05:46:00] <eskp> and i can't see any configuration fields of notifo plugin
[05:46:41] <eskp> the job type is external and the logs report "build action completed: FAILURE"
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[05:57:19] <lifeless> check your global config
[05:57:26] <lifeless> and the log in case errors have happened
[05:57:36] <lifeless> mwhudson: netbeans integration is -awesome-
[05:59:31] <eskp> lifeless: Manage Jenkins > Configure System > nothing about notifo plugin
[05:59:54] <eskp> email-ext and irc all have general values setup
[06:00:00] <eskp> nothing about triggers
[06:00:17] <lifeless> I didn't say anything about triggers
[06:01:04] <eskp> ok, sorry, main configuration all looking fine - test emails work
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[06:01:55] <lifeless> eskp: and you've checked the per-build configuration as well?
[06:01:56] <lifeless> bbiab
[06:05:32] <eskp> in job configure screen i see three fields - job name, desc., and disc. old builds
[06:05:55] <eskp> in build configure screen i see two fields - display name and description
[06:09:50] <eskp> lifeless: ok i think email-ext plugin is not setup for 'external jobs'
[06:11:20] <eskp> i just created a test 'free-style software project
[06:12:20] <eskp> .. job, which has post build actions configure screen with irc and email notifications
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[06:34:48] <eskp> why is there so few configuration parameters for external jobs?
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[06:54:02] <lifeless> they're somewhat new I think
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[07:04:51] <rtyler> lifeless: external jobs have been around for a few years
[07:04:59] <rtyler> they're just not used often it seems
[07:08:55] <eskp> rtyler: may i ask what you use to monitor your cron outputs?
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[07:09:18] <rtyler> I don't use cron anymore :P
[07:09:53] <rtyler> how's that for a smug bullshit answer :P
[07:10:14] <rtyler> TBH anywhere I have tasks that need some level of monitoring, I've put them into Jenkins
[07:10:25] <rtyler> I have a corporate/internal instance, and an instance on our production cluster as well
[07:16:49] <eskp> and do you get notified about build statuses of your tasks, rtyler ?
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[07:17:30] <rtyler> yes, the tasks are regular free-style jobs in Jenkins
[07:17:37] <rtyler> most running monitoring scripts for other services every minute
[07:19:39] <eskp> how do you submit output of external command to free-style job?
[07:19:57] <eskp> i thought a job has to be external type for external command to submit output
[07:21:05] <rtyler> you're not understanding me
[07:21:13] <rtyler> I'm saying I *do not* use external commands whatsoever
[07:21:23] <rtyler> everything is run as a regular free-style job in Jenkins
[07:21:31] <eskp> oh
[07:21:48] <rtyler> instead of creating cronjobs, I create jenkinsjobs :)
[07:22:11] <rtyler> the "hudson" user on all the prodcution machines has sudoer access to a scripts directory, and everything that needs automation goes there
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[07:26:52] <eskp> hmm that's a different approach
[07:27:15] <eskp> what do you consider as fail though?
[07:28:25] <rtyler> what do you mean?
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[07:32:12] <eskp> rtyler: well my situation is i have backup scripts that run on machines and i want to monitor the output produced with hudson and get notified on fail
[07:32:38] <eskp> now i was thinking of feeding that output to jenkins from those machines
[07:33:29] <rtyler> that seems sane to me
[07:33:42] <rtyler> IMO it's easier to have jenkins run the backup itself via an SSH slave
[07:33:51] <eskp> speaking to you, i realised i can setup a free-style job, that runs a script from jenkins that in turn executes the backup on the remote machine
[07:34:48] <rtyler> :)
[07:35:59] <eskp> by ssh slave you mean just a machine with ssh? no jenkins installed?
[07:36:23] <eskp> and SSH Plugin would help me with that wouldn't
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[07:37:07] <rtyler> you can configure the slave-agent to be run on the machine via SSH
[07:37:20] <rtyler> so you don't install anything on the machine, you just create a "jenkins" account with an SSH key :)
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[07:42:14] <eskp> rtyler: thanks so much!
[07:42:32] <eskp> i gotta go, will be working things out tomorrow though ;)
[07:43:39] <rtyler> eskp: i'll be here tomorrow as well :)
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[11:52:09] <kutzi> olamy are you listening?
[11:54:16] <olamy> sometimes yes :-)
[11:54:30] <kutzi> okay great :)
[11:55:01] <olamy> complicated question ? :-)
[11:55:10] <kutzi> a little bit, yes
[11:55:36] <olamy> ouch near the lunch time
[11:55:55] <kutzi> Some time ago, I've built something for the Maven2 plugin, so that modules which are been build - in incremental builds - are not displayed with a blinking icon
[11:56:13] <olamy> ah
[11:56:22] <kutzi> i.e. they are set to NOT_BUILT at the beginning of the reactor build
[11:56:29] <olamy> this doesn't work anymore
[11:56:31] <olamy> ?
[11:56:38] <kutzi> I don't see something similar in the Maven3 build
[11:56:46] <olamy> ah
[11:56:49] <kutzi> honestly, I've not tested it
[11:56:54] <olamy> me too
[11:57:03] <olamy> I don't use the incremental stuff
[11:57:21] <olamy> but maybe something not working with maven3 (arghhh)
[11:57:42] <kutzi> but since it is implemented in the MavenModuleSetBuild$Builder and Maven3 uses the maven3Builder (?) this won't work an ymore, right?
[11:57:59] <olamy> uhm
[11:58:20] <olamy> I have to check
[11:58:39] <olamy> currently my eclipse workspace is the job one I have to switch
[11:58:52] <kutzi> if you have the time, could you have a look at MMSB$Builder#preBuild : I had implemented it there
[11:59:15] <kutzi> I'd be happy to apply it for Maven3, too
[11:59:33] <kutzi> maybe you have an idea what the analogue place in Maven3Builder would be
[11:59:48] <olamy> k as I have some memory issue (sometimes transient :-) )the best is probably to mail or load a jira :-)
[12:00:16] <kutzi> k I'll write a jira issue
[12:00:27] <kutzi> thanks for your time
[12:00:44] <olamy> always a pleasure :-)
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[12:06:23] <olamy> magnayn if you are listening I have cleanup the token macro stuff in maven-plugin
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[12:11:00] <olamy> kutzi maybe something to in MavenExecutionListener constructor
[12:11:04] <olamy> I will check that later
[12:12:30] <kutzi> looks like it's a little bit too early
[12:12:41] <kutzi> but you should know the new code much better
[12:13:12] <kutzi> you've to hook into the build after maven itself has determined which modules have to be build
[12:15:58] <olamy> yup probably sessionStarted will tell us which projects will be build
[12:15:58] <kutzi> BTW and totally unrelated: have you mentioned MavenRedeployer? Looks like an early experiment to implement something like RedeployPublisher
[12:16:08] <kutzi> but then abandoned long ago
[12:16:19] <kutzi> should we delete it?
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[12:17:21] <olamy> MavenRedeployer ?.it's a plugin ?
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[12:17:50] <kutzi> a class in the maven-plugin
[12:18:19] <kutzi> f**king maven code. almost void of any Javadoc
[12:18:58] <kutzi> e.g. ExecutionListener
[12:19:54] <olamy> :-)
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[12:20:21] <olamy> MavenRedeployer is used
[12:20:40] <kutzi> I've also thought that sessionStarted might be the right place, but then I lookerd for Javadoc ...
[12:21:24] <kutzi> where is it used? I've searched for references in my eclipse workspace, but didn't find one
[12:22:14] <olamy> As I remember it's a notifier plugin
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[12:24:29] <kutzi> but it does nothing than logging a 'TODO' to the build console, right?
[12:25:31] <olamy> let me open IDE I don't all sources in my small head :-)
[12:25:56] <kutzi> there's no @Extension and it's not registering itself actively, so I guess it should be ignored
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[12:26:27] <kutzi> sure and with an empty stomach it's even more difficult to concentrate ;)
[12:26:38] <olamy> :-)
[12:26:57] <olamy> yes you know lunch time is very important in France !
[12:27:49] <kutzi> I can imagine. I also have to fetch something to eat in the next time
[12:28:43] <olamy> where are you located ?
[12:29:03] <kutzi> Hamburg, Germany
[12:29:21] <kutzi> In which city are you?
[12:29:26] <olamy> near Paris
[12:29:33] <kutzi> nice
[12:29:39] <olamy> ~20 km from Paris
[12:29:39] <javabot> olamy, what does that even *mean*?
[12:30:01] <olamy> ~help
[12:30:01] <javabot> for a FAQ and a quick tutorial on how to use javabot, see: http://kenai.com/projects/javabot/pages/Home
[12:30:46] <olamy> ~help commands
[12:30:46] <javabot> olamy, what does that even *mean*?
[12:31:02] * olamy sorry for this bot noise
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[13:45:00] <prusswan> hi, may I know who I can approach for account creation problems?
[13:47:58] <drulli> I think you need to wait until someone from the west coast is awake...
[13:48:32] <sietse> You might consider filing a JIRA issue
[13:48:34] <prusswan> I see..thanks for replying though!
[13:49:22] <prusswan> @sietse it is not a problem with jenkins, but rather I'm unable to create an account on the jenkins site
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[14:06:16] <sietse> prusswan: ok, discard my message then
[14:06:34] <sietse> prusswan: I actually succesfully created an account yesterday night
[14:06:49] <sietse> FWIW
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[14:32:53] <jieryn-w> damn.. i didn't win the sonatype ipad
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[14:33:12] <jieryn-w> ..they probably had it laser etched on the back with:  THERE IS ONLY ONE HUDSON!
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[14:36:38] <olamy> jieryn-w mee too didn't win it :-)
[14:38:37] <jieryn-w> well, he works for a non profit library .. guess it isn't so bad
[14:38:56] <prusswan> just btw, is anyone else using the continuous integration game plugin with maven 2 project?
[14:39:17] * jieryn-w shakes his head no
[14:39:38] * prusswan thanks jieryn-w
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[14:45:48] <wiki-doesnt-work> hello
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[15:01:20] <schwullo> um, anyone having problems with reaching the jenkins wiki?
[15:02:04] <wiki-doesnt-work> aaa, yeah
[15:02:05] <prusswan> me
[15:02:11] <schwullo> :-)
[15:02:17] <prusswan> as your name says..
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[15:06:51] <kensho> me too
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[15:09:47] <wiki-doesnt-work> does anyone know what happened to the wiki?
[15:09:52] <sietse> same here: Service temporarily Unavailable
[15:12:19] <wiki-doesnt-work> Maybe the laptop that hosts the VM running the wiki went to sleep or something? :)
[15:12:50] <sietse> I think Confluence (or its container) is down
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[15:14:16] <prusswan> is anyone here currently using the continuous integration game plugin?
[15:14:45] <kensho> prusswan: I do
[15:15:35] <prusswan> kensho: what kind of project are you running it on, and the versions of the static analysis plugins are you using?
[15:17:23] <kensho> prusswan: most are freestyle projects, a few are maven2 projects but those don't use any static analysis plugins
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[15:20:21] <prusswan> kensho: I'm using a maven2 project, and the latest available plugins, but the static analysis rules are never effected (despite changes in the counts from build to build), and no errors are reported. I've only ever seen points awarded for successful/fail builds. I can't tell if it's a wrong configuration on my part
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[15:23:30] <kensho> prusswan: hm, I have one job that reports pmd violations but this is always considered successful by the cigame and 1.0 points are awarded for each build ... but this is a freestyle project (php/phing)
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[15:24:53] <prusswan> kensho: I take it you mean you have seen a net change in pmd violations, but no points are awarded for pmd related rules?
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[15:27:38] <kensho> prusswan: yes, at least as far as I can tell. But this particular job is still running on a very old instance where the cigame plugin version is 1.17
[15:29:15] <prusswan> kensho: okay, but 1.17 isn't really that old considering that the latest is only 1.18
[15:29:47] <sietse> wiki online now btw
[15:29:53] <schwullo> yey \o/
[15:29:58] <prusswan> thanks
[15:30:13] <schwullo> or is it? :)
[15:30:50] <kensho> prusswan: i looked through the build history and found a build where pmd violations increased. the cigame correctly awarded a negative score
[15:31:24] <prusswan> may I know which version of pmd violations plugin are you using?
[15:31:58] <kensho> prusswan: it's 3.10
[15:32:13] <prusswan> kensho: thanks this would be helpful
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[15:32:29] <kensho> prusswan: np
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[15:38:02] <wiki-doesnt-work> wiki no work
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[15:57:18] <rcampbell_> is http://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/ down?
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[15:58:09] <schwullo> rcampbell_: http://www.downornot.com/wiki.jenkins-ci.org
[15:58:10] <schwullo> :)
[15:59:38] <rcampbell_> heh, thanks
[16:00:14] <rcampbell_> well, i guess it's still early for abayer & rtyler
[16:03:30] <kohsuke> argh
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[16:03:50] <rcampbell_> ah, I didn't think you'd be awake yet ;-)
[16:04:06] <kohsuke> I'm still changing my cloths indeed
[16:04:14] <kohsuke> but restarted
[16:04:46] <kohsuke> I need to run daemontools or something to have this service respawned automatically
[16:04:56] <kohsuke> ideally something that fits better with /etc/init.d stuff
[16:05:10] <rcampbell_> there is a respawn directive you can use
[16:05:13] <rcampbell_> for init.d stuff
[16:06:50] <kohsuke> what's that? never heard of it
[16:07:23] <rcampbell_> What version of the Android SDK do you need? Is the latest sufficient: android-sdk_r10-linux_x86.tgz ?
[16:07:23] <rcampbell_> What plugins do you need for this? The android emulator plugin? Anything else?
[16:07:23] <rcampbell_> Thanks,
[16:07:23] <rcampbell_> Ryan
[16:07:25] <rcampbell_> woops
[16:07:34] <rcampbell_> crappy emacs cut & paste
[16:07:43] <rcampbell_> echo SV:123456:respawn:/command/svscanboot >> /etc/inittab
[16:08:20] * rcampbell_ goes to fix emacs key bindings
[16:08:26] <kohsuke> That's inittab. So I guess you are saying I need to bypass /etc/init.d
[16:08:31] <kohsuke> or rather /etc/rc.d
[16:08:43] <rcampbell_> right, inittab is the only thing that has the respawn I think
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[16:10:01] <kohsuke> I've used http://libslack.org/daemon/manpages/daemon.1.html
[16:11:01] <rcampbell_> looks like a lighter-weight daemontools
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[16:12:31] <kohsuke> Wiki is dead because it filled up all the heap
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[16:17:36] <rcampbell_> wiki is back up for me, thanks kohsuke
[16:17:51] <schwullo> yey
[16:17:51] <kohsuke> In one way or another, we'll find more memory
[16:17:52] <schwullo> same here. thanks
[16:18:13] <rcampbell_> does it need a new box?
[16:18:37] <kohsuke> I believe it's being shipped to the hosting place
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[16:18:44] <prusswan> incidentally i had a permgen problem with jenkins running too many goals, in the end jrockit was the only solution
[16:18:45] <kohsuke> rtyler would know for sure
[16:19:11] <rcampbell_> ah cool
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[16:55:49] <kohsuke> prusswan: if you can, please send us the heap dump so that we can take a look
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[16:58:52] <prusswan> kohsuke: I'll try
[16:58:57] <kohsuke> Thanks
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[17:02:23] <prusswan> btw, can I check if the account prusswan is registered recently on the jenkins site? I suspect I might have registered using a wrong email address
[17:02:45] <kohsuke> sure
[17:02:46] <kohsuke> checking
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[17:04:07] <kohsuke> it's registered to prusswan at gmail dot com
[17:04:21] <prusswan> yes, it is my email
[17:04:44] <prusswan> but I have not been able to receive any of the notifications, and the password reset emails
[17:05:15] <prusswan> in fact a few hours ago, I registered another account momos using the same address, and it worked
[17:06:09] <kohsuke> Hmm
[17:06:24] <kohsuke> Want me to reset the password?
[17:06:58] <prusswan> yes, I would prefer to have the first account fixed, and second one can be deleted...if this is really a glitch
[17:08:01] <kohsuke> what's the second one?
[17:08:06] <kohsuke> I can set the password the safe
[17:08:32] <prusswan> momos, but I was only trying to figure out what's wrong
[17:13:39] <kohsuke> safe -> same
[17:14:53] <prusswan> yes, that would be fine
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[17:16:33] <harpreet> Hi All
[17:16:44] *** karol^ has joined #jenkins
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[17:17:37] <harpreet> I have a small question regarind deb package of jenkins
[17:18:04] <harpreet> suppose I create a deb package from source after applying some patch
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[17:18:32] <harpreet> so will I be able to upgrade it with apt-get command command over next releases
[17:18:36] <harpreet> ?
[17:18:59] <harpreet> INFO: I am using ubuntu 10.04
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[17:19:30] <karol^> Hi, I'm using jenkins for php projects... php clover coverage doesn't support "conditionals", so all my projects show at <20% health regardless of my test coverage, because "Conditionals 0% (0/0)"... is there anyway around this?
[17:24:21] <sietse> strange, how can 0/0 ever result in 0% coverage
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[17:24:50] <prusswan> 0/0 is undefined
[17:24:58] <prusswan> or NaN in java :p
[17:25:07] <sietse> cobertura reporting allows you to see thresholds for different categories
[17:25:13] <sietse> yes, agree
[17:25:42] <sietse> s/see/set
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[17:27:09] <karol^> I tried setting conditionals threshold to 0, but it doesn't help
[17:28:55] <karol^> oh, -1 worked
[17:29:09] <karol^> lol, sometimes it's best to try something crazy
[17:29:13] <sietse> ok
[17:29:46] <sietse> karol^: Did you find that somewhere are was that just a wild guess?
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[17:29:56] <sietse> s/are/or
[17:30:22] <karol^> just a wild guess
[17:30:31] <sietse> ok, nice
[17:30:51] <sietse> good to know because soon I have to deal with PHP projects as well
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[18:02:03] <fredgarth> hi
[18:02:26] <fredgarth> i'm a newbe in jenkins
[18:02:38] <harking> anyone notify y'all that the wiki is 503'ing?
[18:02:50] <fredgarth> and i'm trying to set up a system with multiple vbox nodes
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[18:04:43] <fredgarth> the trouble is that i can only target specific nodes when i use a multi-configuration project but only with free-style projects can i run build scripts
[18:05:03] <fredgarth> i mean, the build scripts are not run in multi-configuration projects
[18:05:13] <fredgarth> can anyone shed some light here?
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[18:23:26] <karol^> sietse: it's still doesn't play well, it ignores other thresholds, so I can't tell it to report 50% test coverage as 100% for example
[18:23:41] <karol^> it's better than 0 though
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[18:51:50] <herque> hey all, I'm playing around with the promoted builds plugin, and the doc says that PROMOTED_JOB_NUMBER is being exposed, but when I try to pass it along to the promotion job it isn't working.  PROMOTED_JOB_NAME and PROMOTED_URL work, just not this one
[18:52:02] <herque> any ideas?
[18:52:52] <prusswan> FWIW, good news for those using cuke4duke 0.4.3 on XP
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[18:53:25] <jmalicki> where is the source code to jenkins?  i can't find any links on jenkins-ci.org?  are they cleverly hidden?
[18:54:29] <_W_> it's on github
[18:54:47] <jmalicki> which is the one i should download?
[18:54:57] <jmalicki> (there are many on github)
[18:55:09] <_W_> https://github.com/jenkinsci/ presumably
[18:55:13] <jmalicki> thank you!
[18:55:38] <_W_> wow 484 repositories
[18:55:57] <_W_> https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins
[18:56:27] <prusswan> kohsuke: don't mean to sound impatient, but when would my account be fixed?
[18:56:39] <kohsuke> sorry, on the phone
[18:57:14] <abayer> ?we have a governance meeting today, don't we. Argh. I have to miss it.
[18:59:53] <_W_> yeah, though I'm not sure I have the time and timezone right, seems the wiki is temporarily unavailable
[19:00:45] <abayer> Restarting wiki, and yeah, this is the right time. Sorry for not being able to attend - I gotta run in half an hour.
[19:12:08] <_W_> well it's either in one hour or three - I see now it's three
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[19:18:35] <kohsuke> abayer: the minutes show March 16th 1pm PST / 10pm CET / 9pm GMT
[19:18:46] <kohsuke> but it fails to take the DST shift into account
[19:18:54] <kohsuke> 9pm GMT is 2pm PST now
[19:19:08] <kohsuke> Can we do it in 2pm PST / 10pm CET / 9pm GMT?
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[19:20:09] <kohsuke> I think I take silence as yes. I'll write a reminder
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[19:35:27] <abayer> kohsuke: oh yeah, I forgot we moved it to 1 (or 2 - pesky DST) for Dean. Nice!
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[19:53:42] <prusswan> how do I specify JAVA_OPTS = ...MaxPermSize etc for the JVM processes evoked for the maven goals? as opposed to JAVA_OPTS for starting jenkins (hosted on Tomcat6)? I suspect this could be the cause of the permgen issues I'm facing
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[19:55:04] <jieryn-w> prusswan: try Manage Jenkins > Configure System :: Global Properties
[19:56:00] <prusswan> jieryn-w: makes sense, I will do that
[19:58:14] <jieryn-w> :)
[19:59:33] <prusswan> actually, I just recalled the reason why I did not try that approach at first glance
[20:00:51] <prusswan> the environmental variables such as JAVA_OPTS that is visible to jenkins itself, are already visible under Manage Jenkins -> Environmental Properties
[20:01:30] <prusswan> so I thought it was only reasonable that they will be passed to any JVM processes started by jenkins
[20:02:31] <jieryn-w> environmental variables configured in the job itself?
[20:02:46] <prusswan> at the operating system level
[20:03:19] <jieryn-w> well, possibly jenkins is clobbering your JAVA_OPTS
[20:03:28] <jieryn-w> i wouldn't expect it to, but......
[20:03:34] <prusswan> I mean what u suggest could possibly work too
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[20:03:51] <jieryn-w> well, we can both agree that the way you've suggested isn't working? :)
[20:03:57] <prusswan> but in case you are not clear where I am coming from on this matter...
[20:04:13] <jieryn-w> you export JAVA_OPTS in the script that launches jenkins
[20:04:15] <jieryn-w> i think i get it
[20:04:18] <prusswan> I'm trying to get a confirmation on how this is supposed to work, rather than just making reasonable guesses
[20:04:31] <jieryn-w> i'm saying that jenkins may clobber this env variable as part of its spawn processing ... i don't expect that, but i can't rule it out
[20:04:33] <prusswan> yes..something like that
[20:05:14] <jieryn-w> the best way to do this would be something like...    http://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/DumpInfo+BuildWrapper+Plugin   and add it to your job
[20:05:22] <jieryn-w> make sure the env is what you expect it to be ..
[20:05:40] <jieryn-w> if you've exported JAVA_OPTS, but are not seeing it in your job.. then somewhere along the way it is either unset or clobbered
[20:06:16] <prusswan> is there a way i can verify this? ( whether it is clobbered during the job run etc)
[20:06:22] <herque> after downloading the source turns out it is PROMOTED_NUMBER not PROMOTED_JOB_NUMBER, would be nice if someone could fix the wiki with that
[20:06:52] <jieryn-w> prusswan: use that plugin i just linked
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[20:07:16] <prusswan> jieryn-w: okay
[20:14:00] <herque> turns out I can modify the wiki, so its right there now
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[20:47:41] <prusswan> jieryn-w: wow I finally figured out how to do it
[20:48:46] <prusswan> it only reads it from MAVEN_OPTS
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[20:59:19] <prusswan> and this MAVEN_OPTS isn't actually the environmental variable, but rather an option specific to jenkins itself (u really need to set it there)
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[21:08:43] <kutzi> kohsuke do you remember the conversation we had about MailSender#includeCulpritsOf?
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[21:11:48] <Weltraumschaf> hi
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[21:13:25] <jieryn-w> prusswan: any luck?
[21:14:04] <prusswan> jieryn-w: yes, I finally understood the implicatons of this: http://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-2932
[21:14:13] <jenkins-admin> JENKINS-2932:maven2 project doesn't pick up environment variable MAVEN_OPTS (Closed) http://jenkins-ci.org/issue/2932
[21:14:33] <prusswan> it turns out that i misunderstood how it is supposed to work
[21:14:56] <prusswan> 1) wrongly assumed JAVA_OPTS would be used by maven processses
[21:15:39] <prusswan> 2) MAVEN_OPTS at different levels are additive, but they really just replace one another
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[21:18:16] <jieryn-w> so maybe just set global property:   MAVEN_OPTS  ->  -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -XX:PermSize=256M -XX:MaxPermSize=256M
[21:18:21] <jieryn-w> or whatever you need
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[21:18:50] <prusswan> right, but I have some arguments that are job specific
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[21:19:30] <prusswan> so it means i need to set whatever i need at the job level and append the whatever that's at the global level
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[21:23:13] <Slashbunny> in debugging another issue today, I noticed this output in my jenkins log, 873 times... it doesn't appear to be causing any issues that I can see, but it is a little concerning: http://pastebin.com/Cd3t1WKX
[21:24:19] <prusswan> that's a pretty long warning..
[21:27:25] <kutzi> olamy hi again
[21:27:34] <olamy> pong
[21:27:52] <kutzi> another question from me ;)
[21:28:10] <olamy> hehe
[21:28:43] <kutzi> RedeployPublisher line 191. Shouldn't that read build.getWorkspace().act... ?
[21:28:45] <olamy> when I am available for a beer is your question ?
[21:29:02] <kutzi> that's also a good question :))
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[21:30:45] <olamy> yes you're rigth !!!
[21:30:52] <olamy> I'm fixing that
[21:31:00] <kutzi> same some lines down
[21:31:14] <olamy> I have tested on that on nodes which have same settings.xml
[21:31:22] <olamy> if not it can break sure
[21:31:56] <kutzi> made me wonder, because it does clearly not what the comment directly above says
[21:32:31] <olamy> sure :-)
[21:32:53] <olamy> usually comments are wrong/missing but not here :P
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[21:33:55] <olamy> so I have to think how to add test for this
[21:34:01] <olamy> complicated
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[21:34:38] <olamy> I need to have an infra in which I could create real remote nodes for testing
[21:35:38] <olamy> pushed
[21:35:52] <olamy> kutzi thanks to your eyes :-)
[21:36:10] <kutzi> you're welcome!
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[21:36:21] <kutzi> Yeah, in m
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[21:36:34] <kutzi> my eyes we need much more automated testing in jenkins
[21:37:02] <olamy> :-)
[21:37:55] <kutzi> I'm sorry to say that, but I think the hudson guys are not on a bad way regarding that issue
[21:38:06] <abayer> We definitely need that.
[21:38:11] <abayer> We just need resources.
[21:38:27] <olamy> yes
[21:38:34] <phyto> which is something oracle has a bunch of ;)
[21:38:54] <prusswan> what kind of resources?
[21:39:07] <olamy> the main is how test real remote stuff
[21:39:18] <kutzi> maybe we can 'steal' some of their tests once they commit them ;)
[21:39:20] <olamy> the current its use a "local remote" node
[21:39:29] <olamy> hehe
[21:39:29] <abayer> People to help implement automated testing, and eventually machines to run 'em on.
[21:40:27] * phyto thinks the ec2 plugin might come in handy there, with a little care given to it
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[21:40:53] <mwhudson> or something involving lots of VMs?
[21:41:22] <prusswan> i have a test environment used for investigating the suitability of jenkins, but it still has room for some other jobs
[21:42:18] <phyto> suitability? you mean vs other CI servers?
[21:42:58] <prusswan> yes, I was tasked to get one up, and so far I seemed to have achieved it
[21:43:24] <phyto> don't know why anyone would use anything else.. bamboo is miserable, so is CC
[21:44:09] <prusswan> previously hudson was used, but a very old version and rarely updated
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[21:46:46] <phyto> if kohsuke were only here to tell me why I need to use ComputerConnector (in addition to ComputerLauncher)
[21:47:04] <kutzi> regarding the tests, I think every committer can do a little bit by making sure that every bug and every new feature has an unit test
[21:51:02] <phyto> the software industry at large could use a practical approach to that problem
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[21:51:42] <hare_brain> I would include people who contribute patches as well. Patches are great, but what would be greater is if tests were also included.
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[21:53:32] <phyto> how would you enforce that on contributions to plugins
[21:53:49] <phyto> plugins are the wild wild west typically
[21:54:02] <hare_brain> I think it's up to each plugin owner to do that.
[21:54:08] <phyto> fair point
[21:54:41] <kutzi> hare_brain: yes agreed. Usually I would only accept patches if they contain a test, too
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[21:56:10] <kohsuke> jenkins-admin: fork emanuelez/hudson-periodicbackup on github as periodicbackup-plugin
[21:57:39] <phyto> i watched a vid by Linus on GIT where he talked about 'circle of trust'.. seems relevant to this discussion
[21:58:05] <magnayn> network of trust
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[21:58:16] <phyto> i.e. patches/fixes/etc go through the owner/trusted committer.. yeah magnayn that was it
[21:59:50] <phyto> kohsuke: quick qn if you have a sec
[21:59:58] <kohsuke> if it's quick, sure
[22:00:26] <phyto> the other day you mentioned that I needed to write a ComputerConnection as well as a ComputerLauncher...
[22:00:32] <phyto> i'm not sure why i need the former
[22:01:01] <phyto> so far the launcher is looking like it will get me there (this is in regards to the EC2 plugin enhancement)
[22:01:11] <kohsuke> IIRC, I think you need to write a computer launcher that delegates to another ComputerConnector
[22:01:12] <Weltraumschaf> when i recognize an inconsitent checkout in MySVM.compareRemoteRevisionWith() my approach was to call workspace.deleteRecursive(); But hen i got NullPointerException: Failed to record SCM polling.
[22:01:26] <Weltraumschaf> MySVM == MySCM
[22:01:57] <phyto> kohsuke: do you mean a ComputerLauncher that delegates to another ComputerLauncher?
[22:02:27] <phyto> i.e. EC2InstanceLauncher extends DelegatingComputerLauncher ?
[22:03:00] <hare_brain> Time to start?
[22:03:22] <abayer> Yeah - FYI, I'm fairly distracted and so can't run it. =)
[22:03:31] <kohsuke> OK
[22:03:48] <kohsuke> robobutler: help
[22:03:48] <robobutler> kohsuke: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
[22:04:07] <kohsuke> hmm, where was that page that talks about this bot
[22:04:39] <hare_brain> http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html
[22:04:45] <hare_brain> #startmeeting
[22:04:46] <robobutler> Let the Jenkins meeting commence!
[22:04:52] <kohsuke> #startmeeting Governance meeting
[22:04:52] <robobutler> kohsuke: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
[22:04:58] <kohsuke> oh
[22:04:59] <gmcdonald> oops
[22:05:02] <kohsuke> #endmeeting
[22:05:03] <hare_brain> #chair kohsuke abayer hare_brain rtyler
[22:05:03] <robobutler> Current chairs: abayer hare_brain kohsuke rtyler
[22:05:05] <hare_brain> LOL
[22:05:13] <kohsuke> #startmeeting Governance meeting
[22:05:13] <robobutler> kohsuke: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
[22:05:23] <hare_brain> kohsuke, I started it.
[22:05:23] <kohsuke> Ah, wait got it. Sorry.
[22:05:45] <kohsuke> So the first topic was the JIRA split discussion, but
[22:06:04] <kohsuke> aheritier has sent in his regret, so we'll skip that one for now
[22:06:19] <kohsuke> #topic trademark registration status
[22:06:19] *** robobutler changes topic to "trademark registration status"
[22:06:55] <kohsuke> The current status is that ...
[22:07:31] *** wis775 has joined #jenkins
[22:07:41] *** richardm55 has joined #jenkins
[22:07:52] <kohsuke> I believe the interim board is willing to accept the offer from CloudBees to fund the registration, in the interest of getting it going quickly
[22:07:59] <abayer> I am, yes.
[22:08:04] <kohsuke> ... contingent on getting a paper in place that the trademark will *NOT* be owned by CB
[22:08:08] <abayer> Yup.
[22:08:09] <hare_brain> Yes
[22:08:29] <kohsuke> And I believe abayer had a conversation with Sacha, CB CEO, and that this is not a problem
[22:08:34] <abayer> Ahyup.
[22:08:43] <kohsuke> #action so the action is for me to finally get the ball rolling
[22:09:04] <kohsuke> And the process itself should be fairly straight-forward.
[22:09:23] <kohsuke> So I apologize for a slow progress, but a progress is being made
[22:09:33] <kohsuke> Darn, I forgot to use the #info tag
[22:09:37] <kohsuke> Anyway.
[22:09:53] <kohsuke> Any questions about this topic?
[22:09:57] <kohsuke> Or shall we move on?
[22:10:35] <kohsuke> #info the interim board is willing to accept the offer from CloudBees to fund the registration, in the interest of getting it going quickly contingent on getting a paper in place that the trademark will *NOT* be owned by CB
[22:10:40] <kohsuke> That should do for the minutes
[22:10:44] <kohsuke> OK, next topic...
[22:10:52] <kohsuke> #topic SFC response / umbrella org
[22:10:52] *** robobutler changes topic to "SFC response / umbrella org"
[22:11:12] <kohsuke> #info So I pinged SFC again, and they said they are still reviewing applications.
[22:11:20] <kohsuke> I believe it's not just ours but others' as well
[22:11:31] <kohsuke> #info In the mean time, I pinged SPI as well
[22:11:48] <kohsuke> http://www.spi-inc.org
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[22:12:01] <kohsuke> And got a favorable first set of replies
[22:12:09] <abayer> #info Also, Kohsuke and I had an informal sitdown with Doug Cutting of ASF last week.
[22:12:13] <kohsuke> Yes.
[22:12:33] <kohsuke> And Doug said ASF would be very happy to have us
[22:13:02] <kohsuke> #info so the good news is that we have some orgs that are willing to take us
[22:13:33] <kohsuke> So the question is, how should we proceed?
[22:13:48] <abayer> I think we should investigate all our options thoroughly.
[22:14:08] <abayer> I personally lean towards ASF, but not to the exclusion of other options by any means.
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[22:14:33] <kohsuke> #idea So I guess we should explore SPI bit further, too, then
[22:14:39] <abayer> +1
[22:14:49] <abayer> I think we should aim at making an educated decision as to which way to go by end of April.
[22:15:05] <abayer> SFC said they'd get something back to us by then, I believe.
[22:15:07] <kohsuke> I think we should also write down our conversation with Doug, the points raised, etc
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[22:15:15] <abayer> AGreed.
[22:15:30] <hare_brain> Yes, I'm interested in seeing what he had to say.
[22:15:30] <kohsuke> Aiming to build the similar write up for SPI might be a good way to drive this
[22:15:47] <kohsuke> And SFC, too.
[22:16:02] <kohsuke> OK, that's clearer
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[22:16:30] <kohsuke> I think those are the only organizations that we are considering, right?
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[22:16:38] <abayer> I don't know of any other real options.
[22:16:54] <olamy> do you know others ?
[22:16:56] <_W_> one other option is to go alone, though I see the benefits of an umbrella
[22:17:02] <hare_brain> Something to think about is these foundations each stand for something, and seem to expect their projects to be representative of those principles.
[22:17:17] <kohsuke> Oh, I think you had a suggestion of the Dojo foundation
[22:17:19] <hare_brain> So the question to us is, what does Jenkins stand for, and how well does that mesh with each of these?
[22:17:45] <abayer> _W_: Yeah, I admit to strongly wanting to get under an umbrella - I'd really like to get the legal support, infrastructure etc without having to run them ourselves.
[22:17:54] * _W_ nods
[22:18:00] <hare_brain> Regarding Dojo, only because I stumbled across in when I was researching something else. I don't really know anything about them.
[22:18:10] <kohsuke> hare_brain: I think in case of Apache I understands that they have certain principles
[22:18:27] <kohsuke> I suspect it's less true for SFC and SPI
[22:18:49] <kohsuke> But I agree with later part of "what does Jenkins stand for, and how well does that mesh with each of these?"
[22:18:50] <hare_brain> I can't tell if they're interested in accepting any project, or if they're only interested in projects related to Javascript tools.
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[22:19:18] <magnayn> You can get infrastructure support from many places (e.g: Codehaus)
[22:20:33] <kohsuke> I think some kind of legal entity is needed for us to hold assets on behalf of the project
[22:20:38] <olamy> magnayn the infra stuff is not the most important IMHO : trademark legal stuff is more important
[22:20:48] <abayer> Yes.
[22:20:49] <kohsuke> olamy: +1
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[22:21:02] <abayer> I really don't want to have to deal with registering a nonprofit myself, etc. =)
[22:21:12] <olamy> ack
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[22:21:25] <magnayn> ack - but if infra is an issue it doesn't have to drive the decision
[22:21:40] <kohsuke> Yes
[22:21:44] <olamy> sure
[22:21:47] <abayer> magnayn: Very true. It's more of a nice bonus.
[22:22:04] <kohsuke> Although being a guy involved in that infra work, it sure is a nice bonus
[22:22:54] <phyto> re an earlier conversation an org that gives you some infra might help the remote testing effort
[22:23:14] <olamy> but moving to asf infra will means moving some infra stuff (git etc ...)
[22:23:23] <kohsuke> I should add that to the topic --- rtyler isn't here but we can report about some of our recent progress in getting hardware
[22:23:51] <magnayn> olamy: away from github? ugh..
[22:23:55] <kohsuke> Do people think it'd be worth sending a quick email to the Dojo foundation to find out if they take projects outside JavaScript/HTML stuff?
[22:24:15] <kohsuke> On one hand, I feel like we have enough choices already,
[22:24:28] <gmcdonald> kohsuke: as an apache committer already, you should know how it works
[22:24:33] <kohsuke> but OTOH, it does seem to do the kind of things we want and doesn't do kind of things we don't want
[22:25:25] <kohsuke> gmcdonald: Yes, I think there are many Apache committers here, many more active than I am, that we have good sense of what Apache Jenkins would mean
[22:25:42] <hare_brain> #info http://dojofoundation.org/about/hundredpoint
[22:25:46] <kohsuke> #action I think abayer and I take an action to write down what we discussed with Doug Cutting as the starting point
[22:25:58] <olamy> +1
[22:26:15] <gmcdonald> kohsuke: does jenkins.apache.org appeal , becuase at ASF thats all the branding you will get
[22:26:46] <kohsuke> I think there are various appeals and there are some concerns
[22:26:49] <gmcdonald> everything is to be ASL v2.0 licensed and ASF as a foundation own copyright
[22:27:19] <kohsuke> gmcdonald: why don't we let abayer and I create a Wiki page first because it answers many of the questions you are raising
[22:27:50] <gmcdonald> as an infra committer at ASF I know you would be looked after well
[22:27:51] <kohsuke> We've discussed those aspects in the past meetings, and I think having a page would help focusing the conversation
[22:28:05] <gmcdonald> kohsuke: sure, thanks
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[22:29:03] <kohsuke> Now, where is my agenda page...
[22:29:17] <hare_brain> CLA
[22:29:27] <kohsuke> #topic CLA
[22:29:27] *** robobutler changes topic to "CLA"
[22:29:36] <hare_brain> Which sort of dovetails into the foundation discussion anyway.
[22:29:40] <_W_> indeed
[22:29:43] <kohsuke> True
[22:30:19] <kohsuke> And I still haven't caught up on that thread yet
[22:30:21] <_W_> first question, just since I'm not 100% on this; are there parts of the intellectual property in the core that is not owned by people now involved in Jenkins?
[22:30:35] <kohsuke> Yes.
[22:30:51] <kohsuke> For example, Oracle owns copyright on a considerable portion of the source code.
[22:31:14] <abayer> In fact, they own at least shared copyright on everything in core up until not too long ago.
[22:31:26] <hare_brain> And that actually might make it hard to change the license.
[22:31:36] * _W_ nods
[22:31:53] <magnayn> given they're not so friendly..
[22:31:54] <_W_> changing the license, getting copyright assignments, seems to be a moot point because of this
[22:31:58] <prusswan> it's currently MIT right?
[22:32:01] <abayer> According to Doug Cutting, it's not a problem for going to Apache - the old code would remain as is, with new changes made under the new license.
[22:32:12] <hare_brain> OK. Good to know.
[22:32:19] <_W_> abayer, did he ok that from a legal standpoint?
[22:32:22] <abayer> So yeah, going somewhere that would require full copyright reassignment wouldn't be an option.
[22:32:25] <_W_> derivative work status etc?
[22:32:27] <kohsuke> #info So yeah, there's no conversation of changing the license for the existing code
[22:32:40] <abayer> _W_: He said that was Apache policy.
[22:32:41] <kohsuke> We just can't do it.
[22:32:42] <olamy> so those code need to have double licenses when we change it ?
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[22:32:57] <_W_> abayer, that probably means their lawyers have looked at it, indeed
[22:33:00] <abayer> Yeah.
[22:33:09] <_W_> olamy, if the project goes apache, at least
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[22:33:27] <olamy> I mean now
[22:33:40] <magnayn> therefore if (c) cannot be assigned, future CA is moot too..
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[22:33:53] <abayer> Right now, you should just make sure your changes have attribution.
[22:33:59] <abayer> magnayn: ? Not sure how that would be?
[22:34:42] <magnayn> put another way - what benefit can be gained by the *partial* copyright being assigned to one entity ?
[22:34:51] <magnayn> SInce relicensing is therefore not possible
[22:34:58] <abayer> The CA would be applying to all new code.
[22:35:06] <magnayn> But how does that help ?
[22:35:18] <_W_> also, what would be the point of *requiring* CA - if some code is OK not being assigned, why can't more such code be added?
[22:35:52] <abayer> Ok, I'm not an expert on the CA stuff by a long shot. I just know that a good number of companies require that open source projects have them before letting their employees contribute. That's the only reason I care.
[22:35:55] <_W_> (independent of whatever demands Apache has, of course)
[22:36:01] <kohsuke> IANAL, but the model we are trying to get to is that all the code are covered by some CLA.
[22:36:05] <magnayn> ISTM the only benefit of CA is ability to easily relicense. But that's not possible becuse of the (c) owned by Oracle
[22:36:06] <_W_> abayer, do you have any more details on that?
[22:36:15] <_W_> abayer, e.g. demand that *all* code myst be assigned?
[22:36:20] <_W_> because Jenkins will always fail that
[22:36:22] <magnayn> kohsuke: yes, but _why ?
[22:36:40] <kohsuke> so that people contributing code can't turn around and sue us or users
[22:36:49] <kohsuke> #info http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/cla.xml
[22:36:50] <magnayn> But a CLA can't help with that
[22:37:01] <kohsuke> For example in Apache CLA, it does
[22:37:11] <_W_> The way I perceive it is that CLAs are a response to the very murky ownership of IP in most open source projects - I think that can be avoided with Jenkins without a CLA
[22:37:12] <abayer> _W_: I just know what my CEO told me. =)
[22:37:24] <_W_> abayer, so he was ambiguous on that point then
[22:37:27] <lifeless> abayer: surely we could have an optional one
[22:37:36] <abayer> He didn't cover that one, no.
[22:37:37] <magnayn> _W_:  yes, if the CLA applies CA...
[22:37:44] * rtyler wakes up
[22:38:00] <magnayn> E.g: Linux does neither CA nor CLAs... doesn't seem to be holding it up
[22:38:27] <hare_brain> Linux has Linux Foundation handling all the legal work.
[22:38:30] <lifeless> kohsuke: that osswatch article is factually incorrect
[22:38:57] <lifeless> kohsuke: this is a really tricky subject
[22:39:05] <kohsuke> magnayn: yeah, that Linux kernel approach is a mystery to me. Why their lawyer thinks it's OK while other lawyers don't approve of it
[22:39:22] <kohsuke> I want them in the same cage and watch what they say
[22:39:22] <_W_> from that link "The purpose of a CLA is to ensure that the guardian of a project's outputs has the necessary ownership or grants of rights over all contributions to allow them to distribute under the chosen licence"
[22:39:33] <_W_> which is not applicable to Jenkins for previously mentioned reasons
[22:39:43] <magnayn> And it's not true anyway
[22:39:48] <lifeless> indeed
[22:40:09] <lifeless> its usef if doing license changes / dual licensing / open core
[22:40:14] <magnayn> I can sign a piece of paper that gives you the rights to my Neighbour's house... doesn't mean it's legal
[22:40:24] <lifeless> it *used* to be argued that you needed one copyright owner to win court cases
[22:40:52] <lifeless> but since the frence VLC lawsuit that *users* brought held up the GPL without any copyright owners involvement, that argument is shown flawed
[22:41:23] <prusswan> owner of the entire software, or a part of it?
[22:41:23] <kohsuke> lifeless: you work for Canonical, right? What does Canonical do for its open-source projects?
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[22:41:43] <lifeless> kohsuke: we require a CLA + CA, and this is a huge bone of contention
[22:41:48] * mwhudson is _really_ tempted to say "cause annoying flamewars"
[22:41:50] <rtyler> requires copyright assignment to Canonical, lulz
[22:42:04] * mwhudson works there too
[22:42:07] <abayer> My question for those who oppose having a CLA is what should I do, then, when my employer blocks me from contributing to projects without a CLA? (caveat - I do have a waiver right now for Jenkins, but that's with the assumption that Jenkins will end up with a CLA)
[22:42:10] <lifeless> kohsuke: *personally* I think we lose a substantial number of contributors because of this
[22:42:28] <magnayn> abayer: sign an optional CLA
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[22:42:31] <_W_> abayer, talk with your employer and find out *what exactly*  is required
[22:42:33] <kohsuke> lifeless: yeah copyright assignment is hard to sell
[22:42:37] <_W_> since what you have is ambiguous
[22:43:16] <_W_> abayer, as I said in the mailing list, while I am opposed to requiring a CLA, I have no objections to letting people sign one and contribute under it - even encouraging people to do so - if that is what it takes to placate lawyers
[22:44:01] <_W_> abayer, but from what you say, you can't contribute to Jenkins anyway, since you aren't likely to get a CLA from Oracle
[22:44:16] <magnayn> FWIW, I'm not even opposed to signing a CLA. I'm just against pointless paperwork, and I think it's better to not put up barriers to contribution
[22:44:44] <magnayn> Fringe benefit : If jenkins has no CLA, Jenkins can take contribs to Hudson core, but not vice-versa... :-)
[22:44:50] <abayer> I still don't know what you mean, _W_ - I don't understand how Oracle's ownership of copyright on older code has an impact on my right to contribute.
[22:45:09] <_W_> abayer, if your employer requires that all the code in the project is under CLA
[22:45:24] <abayer> I'm pretty sure it's my contributions that are in question, not all code.
[22:45:36] <kohsuke> I'm under the impression that users would prefer a project having CLA. Is that generally not the case?
[22:45:47] <_W_> then I don't see why a CLA can't just be offered as an option for people like you abayer, while not requiring it for everyone
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[22:45:53] <abayer> Since Cloudera (my employer) technically owns my output, they want protection, etc.
[22:45:54] <magnayn> I doubt users care..
[22:46:09] <hare_brain> Depends on the user.
[22:46:22] <lifeless> abayer: what I don't understand - CLA's are generally only signed by the contributor, not countersigned.
[22:46:27] <hare_brain> If a user is a company, they probably care.
[22:46:29] <lifeless> abayer: so they offer -no- protection to the contributor
[22:46:47] <magnayn> they cannot offer protection to the contributor anyway
[22:46:52] <_W_> as a _user_ I don't care - who owns it matters not at all, as long as I feel confident the license is valid
[22:47:02] <lifeless> magnayn: they can if they are a contract, with consideration etc etc
[22:47:22] <abayer> This is part of why I really want an umbrella org - no offense to anyone here, but I don't think any of us are lawyers, especially not corporate ones. I don't know what the legal considerations are, I just know what I've been told I need to do.
[22:47:24] <_W_> (which with a big project like Jenkins I would feel very confident about)
[22:48:16] <kohsuke> abayer: I'm on the same basis --- I hate paperwork overhead as much as anyone else, but I'm not quite ready to dismiss CLA as "needless" when so many lawyers seem to be saying that you should have one
[22:48:21] <_W_> as a contributor, I have long ago considered whether I am willing to sign any such agreement, and have come down on a solid "no" - reasons for not contributing to JAXB and Hudson under Oracle
[22:48:45] <_W_> kohsuke, it is possible to take a more empirical approach
[22:48:46] <magnayn> lifeless: ok, but there'd have to be stipulated compensation (e.g If I infringed an MPEG2 patent...)
[22:49:03] <_W_> since none of us are lawyers, we can emulate those that have lawyers - and those that do don't uniformly go for CLA
[22:49:04] <kohsuke> _W_: OK, so in your case us requiring a CLA would be a deal breaker for you, whereas for magnayn, it's something he can live with.
[22:49:16] <abayer> I want it to be as easy as possible for people to contribute, and I want to have as large a pool of possible contributes as we can, but I think it's improtant to remember that many of us aren't able to make decisions on the CLA thing due to our employers.
[22:49:34] <lifeless> magnayn: thats not the sort of the a cla could help a contributor with - but what it could is if the *project* violated a patent, then the contributors that *didn't* add the violation could be insulated
[22:49:40] <magnayn> abayer: That's only an argument for an optional CLA though
[22:49:55] <lifeless> magnayn: you'd need a entity with pockets etc through
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[22:50:24] <abayer> And I also think it's important to remember that when I say I'm for having a CLA (and if optional's all we need, hey, that's fine with me - but I don't know if that's the case), I'm not saying I agree with CLAs, etc.
[22:50:24] <magnayn> lifeless: agreed. Which is why it's always the customers who get sued, not the developers (SCO, Linux)
[22:50:24] <lifeless> kohsuke: FWIW Canonical has no issue signing CLA's and CA for its staff (assuming sane CLA's) for open source projects
[22:51:25] <kohsuke> lifeless: good. So far I haven't come across many developers who aren't willing (or unable) to sign Apache-style CLA
[22:51:49] <kohsuke> So I was under the assumption that our impact on the possible contributor base is small, even if the paperwork overhead is annoying
[22:52:05] <magnayn> kohsuke: It's mostly because the Apache CLA is not countersigned, and therefore legally worthless..
[22:52:12] <lifeless> kohsuke: I think its hard to assess that
[22:52:19] <lifeless> kohsuke: as a for instance
[22:52:23] <abayer> the gist I'm getting here is that an optional CLA would be preferable, so now we need to determine if that can satisfy the needs/requirements of those parties that require/want CLAs.
[22:52:28] <_W_> I do have a compromise I would likely agree to contribute under as well - me writing public domain code, and others (who have signed a CLA) integrating it to the core, much like any other third party dependency
[22:53:05] <lifeless> kohsuke: I would probably have waited until I had most or all of my changes done a year+ago rather than contributing them back - because getting a CLA signed is an interrupt to legal - its several hundred dollars of staff time all told
[22:53:13] <rtyler> abayer: that sounds like an #action item
[22:53:25] <lifeless> kohsuke: so there is a natural reaction to not do it until there is a clear ongoing stream of patches
[22:53:43] <kohsuke> lifeless: right, I see your point
[22:53:43] <gmcdonald> _W_: that happens all the time, for patches etc that woould be fine, for big code contributions probably not so
[22:54:15] <_W_> I do believe Jenkins uses third party libraries without a CLA already?
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[22:54:20] <magnayn> gmcdonald: yeah, I've always wondered how that'd stand up given in how few lines one can infringe a patent...
[22:54:23] <_W_> ("big" ones even)
[22:54:30] <kohsuke> Time check ... do we want to move on to cover two more topics we've added?
[22:54:33] <gmcdonald> _W_: at ASF for instance, attaching a patch to a Jira issue and 'tick the grant ASF use' box is all that is needed
[22:54:37] <kohsuke> I don't think this topic will wrap up any time soon
[22:54:54] <kohsuke> Or is this more important than others?
[22:55:10] <hare_brain> I have a hard stop at 3, and I don't think this will wrap by then, so...
[22:55:17] <gmcdonald> kohsuke: it will decide if you go to asf or not
[22:55:35] <gmcdonald> kohsuke: as you know ALL committers require a iCLA
[22:55:52] <kohsuke> Yes, this is quite related to the umbrella org, like hare_brain said early on
[22:55:53] <gmcdonald> if not ,then they stay as 'contributors'
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[22:56:07] <kohsuke> OK, let's do other topics quickly
[22:56:33] <kohsuke> #action (02:49:33 PM) abayer: the gist I'm getting here is that an optional CLA would be preferable, so now we need to determine if that can satisfy the needs/requirements of those parties that require/want CLAs.
[22:56:49] <kohsuke> I'll do a research on my side as well
[22:56:52] <kohsuke> #topic logo contest
[22:56:52] *** robobutler changes topic to "logo contest"
[22:56:58] <kohsuke> abayer: status update?
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[22:57:02] <kohsuke> oh
[22:57:08] <kohsuke> hmm
[22:57:14] <kohsuke> Let's do infra hardware first then
[22:57:18] <kohsuke> #topic infra hardware
[22:57:18] *** robobutler changes topic to "infra hardware"
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[22:57:35] <kohsuke> rtyler: can you quickly share the status of the new machines we are getting?
[22:58:00] <kohsuke> AIU, we are getting two more boxes on OSUOSL for the project
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[22:58:19] <kohsuke> And we got another server VM from Rackspace
[22:58:20] <abayer> ?sorry, new office network is barfy.
[22:58:53] <kohsuke> We currently run both JIRA and Confluence on the same box, and ...
[22:59:04] <kohsuke> it's really running out of memory, causing instability
[22:59:31] <kohsuke> So we are planning to move one of the services to a new machine to solve the situation
[22:59:47] <rtyler> kohsuke: yes indeedy
[22:59:50] <olamy> nice
[22:59:50] <kohsuke> I hoped rtyler would have some time line about when the new machines would come online, but I guess he's busy
[22:59:51] <kohsuke> Oh
[22:59:57] <rtyler> alright then
[23:00:01] <rtyler> pay attention children
[23:00:12] <rtyler> our current infrastructure includes:
[23:00:23] <rtyler>   * cucumber (jenkins-ci.org) colocated at Contegix
[23:00:40] <rtyler>  * eggplant ([wiki/issues].jenkins-ci.org) a VM hosted with OSUOSL
[23:00:55] <rtyler>   * spinach (?) a yet to be utilized VM at Rackspace
[23:01:04] <kohsuke> yah, it's spinach
[23:01:12] <olamy> rtyler could you put a infra.txt text file in github with some details ?
[23:01:14] <abayer> ?fyi, spinach is a build slave on ci.jenkins-ci.org.
[23:01:28] <rtyler> I have a quote on shipping costs for two additional machines donated from a company that's decommissioning them in Chicago
[23:01:57] <rtyler> we will (tentatively) be receiving a 2U and a 3U machine, both beefy boxes
[23:02:17] <gmcdonald> (being the ASF info dude here) At ASF all that would be hosted for you, externally hosted infra would have to move (but not right away)
[23:02:17] <rtyler> both machines are multiple cores with *lots* of disk space
[23:02:47] <rtyler> gmcdonald: ASF already has hardware at the OSUOSL, so we wouldn't be too far away ;)
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[23:02:55] <gmcdonald> yep :)
[23:03:25] <rtyler> In general, I'd assume that the additional hardware won't be at the OSUOSL for at least another week
[23:03:50] <hare_brain> I need to drop. Carry on.
[23:03:58] <rtyler> #action rtyler to work with kohsuke to move the wiki to a beefier machine
[23:04:31] <kohsuke> I wonder if it's useful to have some small informal money pool to pay for those expenses
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[23:04:41] <rtyler> #action rtyler to schedule shipping the two additional machines (cabbage and lettuce) to the OSUOSL
[23:04:54] <gmcdonald> great machine names btw
[23:04:58] <rtyler> kohsuke: I was just going to steal money from abayer's pockets
[23:05:04] <abayer> Always a safe bet.
[23:05:09] <kohsuke> It sure is nice to do that via an umbrella org, but it's taking time, and I think for the time being, the amount is small enough that one of us can be trusted enough, I think.
[23:05:28] <rtyler> I have to negotiate with the data center where those two machines will be shipped from
[23:05:40] <rtyler> the current prices they're quoting me to package the machines up is *outrageous*
[23:06:02] <rtyler> worst comes to worst, I'll find some sucker in Chicago to go pick the machines up, and ship them for us ;)
[23:06:03] * kohsuke wonders if any of us are in Chicago that can help :-)
[23:06:12] <rtyler> right
[23:06:17] <kohsuke> OK
[23:06:36] <rtyler> anywhoo, I just got the quote this morning at 6am, so I haven't had a lot of time to work with it yet ;)
[23:07:10] <kohsuke> I guess we are moving Wiki to either cabbage or lettuce, right?
[23:07:13] <rtyler> #action rtyler to publicly thank Rackspace and OSUOSL for putting up with all our crap
[23:07:20] <kohsuke> +1
[23:07:26] <ccutrer> my sister lives in chicago, but I doubt she could be suckered into it
[23:07:32] <rtyler> kohsuke: that's my longer-term plan, we might need to move wiki. sooner rather than later
[23:07:41] <ccutrer> worth a try, if necessary, though
[23:07:48] <rtyler> #agreed Rackspace and the OSUOSL are nice folks, and we <3 them
[23:07:56] * rtyler loves cluttering up the meeting notes
[23:07:57] <kohsuke> rtyler: If Wiki won't move soon, maybe we can beg OSUOSL one more time for a bit more memory, temporarily?
[23:08:09] <kohsuke> I think another half a gig would make a real difference
[23:08:23] <rtyler> #action kohsuke to contact the OSUOSL about increasing eggplant's RAM allotment until more hardware arrives in Oregon
[23:08:32] <kohsuke> Good
[23:08:41] <rtyler> anything else I can offer from the infra side of things? :)
[23:09:00] <kohsuke> I think we are good
[23:09:12] <kohsuke> And we are overrunning time, so ...
[23:09:14] <rtyler> good my phone is rinning :)
[23:09:18] <kohsuke> #topic next governance meeting time
[23:09:18] *** robobutler changes topic to "next governance meeting time"
[23:09:29] <kohsuke> I think another one in two weeks?
[23:09:37] <abayer> Yeah, probably back to 11am Pacific.
[23:10:10] <kohsuke> So that's 18:00 GMT
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[23:10:24] <kohsuke> Any objections?
[23:10:26] <abayer> When does Europe go to daylight savings?
[23:10:41] <kohsuke> (I thought only US is crazy enough to do that)
[23:10:43] <magnayn> 27 march for UK
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[23:10:57] <kutzi> same in Germany I think
[23:11:04] <_W_> yeah it's EU standardized
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[23:11:12] <abayer> Alright, then let's make sure to mark the time of the meeting in GMT and *DT. =)
[23:11:20] <kohsuke> Yes
[23:11:32] <kohsuke> 18 GMT it is
[23:11:46] <kohsuke> #agreed the next meeting is March 30th 18 GMT
[23:12:09] <kohsuke> With that, shall we call it a wrap?
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[23:12:27] <kohsuke> I take the silence as consent...
[23:12:45] <kohsuke> Thanks everyone for coming. See you in two weeks.
[23:12:49] <kohsuke> #endmeeting
[23:12:49] *** robobutler changes topic to "Jenkins CI: http://jenkins-ci.org | Paste: http://jenkins.pastebin.com | Log: http://echelog.matzon.dk/?jenkins | Twitter: http://twitter.com/jenkinsci | Identi.ca: http://identi.ca/group/jenkinsci | Committers should have voice"
[23:12:49] <robobutler> Meeting ended Wed Mar 16 22:10:18 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://www.jenkins-ci.org/meetings/ . (v 0.1.4)
[23:12:49] <robobutler> Minutes:        http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2011/jenkins.2011-03-16-21.02.html
[23:12:49] <robobutler> Minutes (text): http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2011/jenkins.2011-03-16-21.02.txt
[23:12:49] <robobutler> Log:            http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2011/jenkins.2011-03-16-21.02.log.html
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[23:22:15] <gmcdonald> so was there any forward movement after that mtg then?
[23:22:27] <rtyler> hm?
[23:22:31] <abayer> On which point? =)
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[23:31:27] <gmcdonald> any
[23:31:51] <gmcdonald> rtyler: you ignored my offer, thats a no then I take it ?
[23:32:39] <kohsuke> For me, checking status on action items was useful, so is getting the sense that people have issues with CLA.
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[23:33:42] <kohsuke> gmcdonald: what offer?
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[23:49:06] <rtyler> I could have sworn I responded
[23:50:19] <rtyler> gmcdonald: I can talk more about it with you later, I'm a little behind (came into the office later than usual)
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[23:51:29] <gmcdonald> rtyler: no worries, look forward to it
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[23:58:53] <MichaelG_> hi guys. I'm still pretty new sry.  I'm trying to have Jenkins test PHP syntax   I can do a syntax check on every file with this command: find  . -type  f -name "*.php" -exec php -l {} \; | grep -v 'No syntax errors'  but Jenkins doesn't error when the "php -l" errors, it just returns the exit code of the find which is always 0.  Anyone know a better method than writing a shell script to do this? ty
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