April 28, 2019 
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April 28, 2019 [00:13:01] <rmustacc> richlowe: No. It looks like it's showing up in the create-vlan docs?[00:15:13] <richlowe> yeah.[00:15:21] <richlowe> I admit, I'm not entirely sure what you'd say instead right now[00:15:58] <rmustacc> I would probably just not use the term PPA there.[00:16:10] <rmustacc> I can take a swing at it and you can tell me how much it still sucks?[00:18:01] <richlowe> if you're bored enough, sure.[00:18:07] <richlowe> if not I'll get there eventually.[00:18:12] <richlowe> if I get to the other manual page thing from yesterday[00:18:26] <rmustacc> What was that?[00:18:59] <richlowe> #10857[00:19:32] <richlowe> really not liking this "never omit the framepointer" patch.[00:20:00] <richlowe> really not looking forward to trying to understand how gcc handles the command line, either.[00:30:20] <jperkin> that's why I did the crap patch, trying to work out cmdline parsing was a headache[00:34:18] *** wiedi <wiedi!~wiedi@ip5b4096a6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #illumos[00:36:14] <richlowe> jperkin: the problem is the existing patch seems to behave differently (and undesirably?) compared to the flag[00:36:27] <richlowe> a lot of the noise I get is because obviously the flag is ignored[00:36:37] <richlowe> but some of it is actually different between saying -fno-omit-frame-pointer and the patch.[00:37:38] <jperkin> yeh I saw[00:41:06] <richlowe> wish there was an easier way to separate "this surprises the test suite" and "this is bad"[01:23:07] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@94.14.32.34> has quit IRC (Quit: andy_js)[02:19:27] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:20:09] <richlowe> of course, the other fun is save-args forces an fp too[03:11:23] *** idodeclare <idodeclare!~textual@cpe-76-185-177-63.satx.res.rr.com> has joined #illumos[03:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:20:07] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has 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(Read error: Connection reset by peer)[13:06:46] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[13:16:18] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@196-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[13:28:43] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[13:51:28] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:52:06] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has joined #illumos[13:54:57] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:59:36] <despair86> D:[14:10:18] *** Kruppt <Kruppt!~Kruppt@50.111.7.207> has joined #illumos[14:15:46] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has joined #illumos[14:16:22] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@208.79.89.189> has quit IRC (Changing host)[14:16:22] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@unaffiliated/hemi770> has joined #illumos[14:17:38] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[14:45:30] *** fireglow <fireglow!~fireglow@fireglow.su> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:47:52] *** fireglow <fireglow!~fireglow@fireglow.su> has joined #illumos[14:51:32] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has joined #illumos[14:59:32] *** khng300 <khng300!~khng300@unaffiliated/khng300> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)[15:01:13] *** khng300 <khng300!~khng300@unaffiliated/khng300> has joined #illumos[15:02:57] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has joined #illumos[15:07:04] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[15:07:31] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:09:10] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@98.13.72.207> has joined #illumos[15:29:55] <igork> tsoome: you try update the same components with NULL issue. but with debug build?[15:30:32] <igork> why not try to fix DEBUG build first and save time ?[15:31:44] <tsoome> sure. if you know how to do things, just do it.[15:34:51] <tsoome> sometimes things just happen:)[15:54:24] <igork> :) as you know, i do debug builds for zfs test all time[15:57:38] <tsoome> thats really nice, but does not help gate. as simple as that.[15:58:00] <igork> tsoome: it help to pint you to issue with loader :)[15:58:09] <igork> with color[15:58:26] <tsoome> well, that was issue with tem actually.[15:59:12] <tsoome> and not even an issue because “production” build has all those asserts wiped. so we never know about them.[16:00:22] <igork> if you think it is not issue - remove all debug ASSERT and be happy :)[16:01:09] <tsoome> it is nice to have some sort of traps like those asserts, but the way how it is done right now is far from ideal.[16:02:19] <rmustacc> There are trade offs with all such things. Some ASSERTs should probably be VERIFYs and better error checking. Some maybe not. But we can improve things.[16:02:32] <tsoome> yes exactly[16:03:28] <rmustacc> So let's not complain about folks who are doing useful work to make the system better, even if it's not the work you want them to do or how you would do that. If you want to change that, do it, don't type it here.[16:03:51] <rmustacc> Otherwise, it honestly just get's tiring for those who are trying to do so.[16:05:04] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@98.13.72.207> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:05:05] <igork> i'm not complain - i see a lot of commits with NULL updates and see it again for the same list of components[16:05:17] <rmustacc> igork: Unfortunately, that's not how it comes across to everyone.[16:05:46] <tsoome> yep, and that was my mistake to miss them in first place:) but just show me someone never doing any mistakes:D[16:05:51] <rmustacc> I know there are a lot of challenges with language, but I just want to be honest with how it reads to other people. Even if that's not what you intend. There are sometimes negative connotations.[16:06:23] <rmustacc> Honestly, there are many times lately where you end up demotivating some folks, at least myself, by how our engagements go here.[16:06:28] <igork> it is not negative - it was just question - to be sure i;m not wrong[16:06:43] <rmustacc> I know it's not your intent, but it's built up by a lot of other things that happen.[16:07:21] <igork> what you mean? how i can demotivating some folks ?[16:07:33] <igork> just point to issue?[16:07:57] <igork> i try to help by additional testing[16:08:13] <igork> and point to issue what i can found[16:08:30] <igork> how this point can demotivating some folks?[16:10:22] <rmustacc> It depends how you communicate and if it comes off as trying to help or just complain.[16:11:03] <igork> sorry in this case, but more times they are not complain - they are just reports[16:11:54] <igork> the same reports about zfs panic on debug build and i have provided changes how i have fixed it[16:11:56] <rmustacc> It's not this specific case per se. Look, I know we have challenges with language. Just sometimes that's what happens.[16:12:26] <igork> probably it is issue with reports or how they can be present[16:12:58] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[16:13:11] <igork> but it was not negative reaction - i just wanted to show how i have found issue and provide inof[16:13:14] <igork> *info[16:13:28] <igork> nothing special[16:14:35] <igork> i do the same on others projects - apt, dpkg, etc[16:15:16] <igork> different platforms can produce different results with the same codebase[16:15:20] <rmustacc> Look, it's not always the case. Sorry, I shouldn't have brought this up.[16:16:59] <igork> if i do mistake by your opinion - let me know - and i'll try provide additional info for better understanding[16:17:27] *** chrisBF <chrisBF!519d0514@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.157.5.20> has joined #illumos[16:21:54] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[16:24:13] *** chromatin <chromatin!~chromatin@d149-67-249-75.try.wideopenwest.com> has joined #illumos[16:24:56] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:25:31] <igork> Example answer to my question about NULL updates: why not to fix debug build first?[16:25:31] <igork> i though to see just: i forgot about it OR will try to do it now OR something else.[16:25:31] <igork> it was NOT complain - it was just question with a little joke ...[16:25:47] *** sarvet <sarvet!~sarvet@dslb-088-078-195-184.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #illumos[16:27:07] <tsoome> that is the problem, some forms of expressions do look positive and some do look negative. I constantly mix them up myself:)[16:27:31] <igork> tsoome: you know russian jokes :)[16:27:55] <tsoome> yes, thats part of the thing - not everyone do.[16:28:02] <igork> how this one was negative?[16:29:46] <tsoome> there is one general suggestion - do not tell people how they should act, tell how you will. I heard this recently from the trainer of dogs, and I found it brilliant.[16:29:55] <igork> tsoome: thanks for loader update based on my patch for 64bit GNU ld :)[16:30:22] <tsoome> yw[16:31:15] <igork> tsoome: as you can see - i didn't say what you should to do :) it was just question with 'a little joke' :)[16:32:18] <tsoome> well, I did realize that same thing just when I noticed the errors popping up:)[16:32:58] <igork> :)[16:33:48] <rmustacc> I missed that there was a joke entirely, fwiw.[16:34:10] <igork> sorry for confusion[16:34:32] <igork> i saw tsoome comments on rb with fixing debug builds[16:34:55] <tsoome> rmustacc: did you by change see https://illumos.org/rb/r/1793/ ?[16:35:11] <rmustacc> tsoome: No, I missed it.[16:35:35] *** freakazoid0223 <freakazoid0223!~matt@pool-108-52-159-210.phlapa.fios.verizon.net> has joined #illumos[16:35:49] <rmustacc> I was actually going to step away from the computer for a little bit, I'll look, but I might not get to it until Monday.[16:35:53] <igork> tsoome: you fixed NICENUM_BUFLEN :) nice[16:36:17] <tsoome> I did move mdb_nicenum() to be part of public api, but with it also the snprinfrac() and prefixed it.[16:36:39] <rmustacc> OK, I'll take a look.[16:37:01] <rmustacc> I can add it to the mdb book once we're happy with it.[16:37:03] <tsoome> I am not sure how good idea it is about snprinfrac, but it is used by mdb_nicenum, and zfs module..[16:37:21] <rmustacc> Yeah, it's also possible to just use some of the internal routines in other modules.[16:37:24] <rmustacc> FWIW.[16:37:34] <rmustacc> There's a lot of non-public mdb functions modules use because they're in the tree.[16:38:17] <rmustacc> But, I'll go through it. Thanks![16:39:19] <tsoome> yea, I did not want to create another nicenum if we have one already:)[16:41:24] <tsoome> and the nicenum for ::vtoc :)[16:43:26] <rmustacc> Makes sense, I'll get through both of them, most likely Monday.[16:43:54] <tsoome> no hurry, thanks:)[16:48:56] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has joined #illumos[16:51:25] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:58:45] *** serapheim <serapheim!~serapheim@172.92.5.112> has joined #illumos[17:01:51] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:03:10] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[17:03:55] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has joined #illumos[17:06:56] *** fanta1 <fanta1!~fanta1@p200300F76BC0E000D4CAB3BE6F7EE676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: fanta1)[17:08:32] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[17:15:24] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc92716-cmbg20-2-0-cust138.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has joined #illumos[17:23:18] *** tomww <tomww!~tom@unaffiliated/tomww> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:35:26] *** vila <vila!~vila@lstlambert-658-1-248-94.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[17:37:22] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@98-19-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[17:39:40] *** tomww <tomww!~tom@unaffiliated/tomww> has joined #illumos[17:43:35] *** chromatin <chromatin!~chromatin@d149-67-249-75.try.wideopenwest.com> has quit IRC (Quit: chromatin)[17:46:17] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:47:22] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has joined #illumos[17:53:43] *** mnrmnaugh <mnrmnaugh!~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh> has joined #illumos[17:58:30] *** vila <vila!~vila@lstlambert-658-1-248-94.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #illumos[18:01:44] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@225-39-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[18:04:12] *** serapheim <serapheim!~serapheim@172.92.5.112> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[18:25:28] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@225-39-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[19:04:53] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has joined #illumos[19:09:38] *** wacki____ <wacki____!~wacki@i577B0F77.versanet.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:00:23] *** Kruppt <Kruppt!~Kruppt@50.111.7.207> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:28:43] *** sarvet <sarvet!~sarvet@dslb-088-078-195-184.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:29:01] *** sarvet <sarvet!~sarvet@dslb-088-078-195-184.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #illumos[20:29:25] <richlowe> it's generally safe to assume sus/posix means what they say, even what they say is stupid, right?[20:46:58] <LeftWing> richlowe: I think that's about right -- certainly if any reframing in the Linux and BSD manual pages seems to concur.[20:51:11] *** sarvet <sarvet!~sarvet@dslb-088-078-195-184.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: sarvet)[20:55:02] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:57:09] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has joined #illumos[21:11:56] *** rsully <rsully!~rsully@unaffiliated/rsully> has joined #illumos[21:14:36] <Smithx10> LeftWing: Dominating that GoLang build tag!!!! w00t w00t[21:14:48] <LeftWing> Giving it a shot anyway[21:14:56] <richlowe> LeftWing exists to suffer[21:15:03] <Smithx10> richlowe: and its all my fault!![21:15:04] <Smithx10> Muahahahahha[21:15:09] <Smithx10> never trust a ginger![21:15:23] <LeftWing> Trying to understand how to get the CLA thing in place, and then get my change up for review on their Gerrit[21:15:24] <richlowe> LeftWing: you should do ocaml and haskell next :)[21:16:07] <LeftWing> richlowe: No, I do not like it. Not one little bit.[21:16:54] <Smithx10> richlowe: or ruuuust?[21:17:09] <Smithx10> lol, that is someone elses pain for the moment I believe :P[21:17:15] <LeftWing> This mess is so big, and so deep, and so tall. We cannot pick it up, there is no way at all![21:18:02] <Smithx10> Imagine an OS that only supported C. "_"[21:18:08] <LeftWing> Glorious.[21:19:22] <Smithx10> Do an entire reboot of the entire worlds software in C.[21:19:33] <Smithx10> ready.....set......go.[21:21:05] <richlowe> Smithx10: rust is already someone else's problem :)[21:21:11] <richlowe> though LeftWing joining them would no doubt help[21:21:23] <Smithx10> noooooo, Golang first!!!! :P[21:21:29] <Smithx10> ./soooooo selfish i am.[21:21:29] <richlowe> I'd rather imagine an OS that didn't support C :\[21:21:33] <richlowe> used them, I have![21:21:59] <Smithx10> richlowe: which language would you choose ?[21:22:34] <richlowe> Not sure, I'd just grow to hate that instead.[21:23:51] <Smithx10> So.... is Cantrill always ask.... what is software? I guess software is the act of Growing to Hate something?[21:24:02] <Smithx10> as Cantrill always asks*[21:24:07] <Smithx10> lolol[21:24:10] <LeftWing> richlowe is auditioning for the part of Marvin[21:24:17] <Smithx10> <3 that damn robot[21:24:34] <richlowe> robot or speed bump victim in pulp fiction[21:24:58] <Smithx10> LeftWing: Who is Marvin's human Doppelganger ?[21:26:20] <richlowe> LeftWing: after X days of the test suites, etc, maybe now is not the time for me to have opinions on C, I admit.[21:26:39] <richlowe> LeftWing: but I'll never understand how you see through glasses that rose tinted, either.[21:29:03] <Smithx10> richlowe: I think it's because he is actually Connor MacLeod.... ./plays queen[21:35:20] *** chrisBF <chrisBF!519d0514@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.157.5.20> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[22:04:24] <LeftWing> richlowe: It's a rubbish fire, but it's _my_ rubbish fire.[22:16:53] *** serapheim <serapheim!~serapheim@172.92.5.112> has joined #illumos[22:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:20:06] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[22:38:46] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc92716-cmbg20-2-0-cust138.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:43:51] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has quit IRC (Quit: jcea)[23:10:10] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has joined #illumos[23:51:31] *** MarcelT <MarcelT!~marcel@tortuga.telka.sk> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)