April 27, 2019 
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April 27, 2019 [00:08:34] *** medfly <medfly!~fly@unaffiliated/medfly> has joined #illumos[00:09:01] <medfly> hello illumos people. does illumos generally identify as solaris2.10 in configure scripts?[00:11:32] <medfly> I think that's 2. "output of uname -r"[00:12:59] <LeftWing> medfly: I think it depends a lot on the toolchains involved, the age of the autotools you're using, etc[00:13:42] <medfly> there's a thread in some mailing list and I don't know enough about whether I should angrily reply to it yet![00:13:58] <richlowe> 2.11[00:14:01] <medfly> oh. thanks![00:14:02] <LeftWing> I would encourage thoughtful, polite replies where possible![00:14:20] <medfly> replies to 6 months old threads are angry by default[00:14:21] <richlowe> LeftWing: scroll up, see my gist, and debug it for me? :)[00:14:29] <LeftWing> richlowe: Can't, busy becoming a Go maintainer![00:14:48] * medfly feels a weird connection to LeftWing[00:15:11] <richlowe> LeftWing: later, then?[00:15:22] <LeftWing> k[00:16:31] *** slumos <slumos!slumos@gateway/shell/firrre/x-anzjlialpsqtuhwa> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[00:16:44] *** slumos <slumos!slumos@gateway/shell/firrre/x-qyequojcxhqrebzm> has joined #illumos[00:17:01] <medfly> It's https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2018-10/msg00139.html[00:18:13] <richlowe> we're definitely 2.11 as far as gcc is concerned[00:18:24] <medfly> Cool.[00:18:54] <richlowe> the other illumos v. gcc issues brought up there are a largely a result of Rainer and I each having little free time, I think[00:32:50] <richlowe> and if you're replying into that, feel free to mention if there's stuff we can do that I can fit into that amount of free time, I absolutely will :)[00:34:50] <LeftWing> Yeah, I think there's actually nothing off the table per se. We're not avoiding contributing on point of principle, per se -- it's just about time and resources. Forks of compilers with our own patches are easy to maintain in the limited time we've had, so that's what we've been doing. But upstreaming is good, and I think we'd all love it if we were able to do that more.[00:36:55] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p57A27663.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[00:37:12] <richlowe> well, that and 90% of the remaining changes are just... not really useful?[00:37:33] <richlowe> a bunch of patch surface is hamstringing things.[00:38:11] <richlowe> and stuff like msave-args was written by them (under contract) in the first place[00:38:20] <richlowe> so it's far from clear how we'd sign GNU paperwork for that :\[00:38:53] <richlowe> but I'd 100% do anything I can to make things better[00:39:08] <richlowe> and LeftWing could probably browbeat a coworker into it, too[00:39:24] <richlowe> I mean, if he's throwing himself infront of Go, won't _won't_ he do? :)[00:40:24] <LeftWing> :P[00:41:48] <richlowe> the most useful thing to contribute would be autoconf magic to know what we fixed v. what oracle have[00:41:50] <richlowe> or a host triplet[00:43:00] <richlowe> yuri's cmn_err fixes, too[00:43:21] <LeftWing> Yeah it'd be great to get a host triplet[00:44:10] <richlowe> most useful _to me_ would be save-args and the -fno-clone/-fstrict-cc stuff[00:44:20] <richlowe> but they're also probably among the more dubious[00:44:50] <LeftWing> One suspects we could instead invest time in getting to Magic DWARF Country[00:44:59] <LeftWing> (for save-args)[00:45:50] <richlowe> or implementing it as a plugin[00:45:56] <richlowe> but right, that's exactly the "How much free time I have" thing I mean[00:46:21] <richlowe> to the degree caring about this stuff is tsoome, alarcher and I, it's not like any of us can dedicate a full working week to this stuff[00:47:38] *** despair86_ <despair86_!~rick@cpe-68-203-175-104.tx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[00:47:56] *** despair86_ <despair86_!~rick@cpe-68-203-175-104.tx.res.rr.com> has joined #illumos[00:48:03] *** despair86_ <despair86_!~rick@cpe-68-203-175-104.tx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[00:48:20] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p50905AF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[00:48:45] *** despair86 <despair86!~rick@cpe-68-203-175-104.tx.res.rr.com> has joined #illumos[00:49:18] <LeftWing> Aye[00:54:26] <despair86> medfly: if you're like me and need to be able to run on sun solaris+illumos, it may be possible to move up to opensolaris 2009.* or even openindiana oi_151a (last Oracle-derived version)[00:56:25] <despair86> i'll have to ask around to see what the companies what package java 1.11+ for solaris do, since i have java 1.11 on my oi_hipster[00:57:51] <despair86> gah i still need to get around to making an SVR4 package of the RWSTDCXX 2.x updates[00:59:28] <despair86> inb4 'fatal relocation error......__Crun::ex_dealloc(...)'[01:00:49] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@37.48.118.41> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:01:03] <richlowe> obviously you should trade one C++ runtime hell for another.[01:04:00] <despair86> i get my java from bellsoft so sunstudio is going to be a PITA for a bit longer *shrugs*[01:08:39] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@94.14.32.34> has quit IRC (Quit: andy_js)[01:17:51] *** kkantor <kkantor!~kkantor@c-24-118-59-107.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.1)[01:37:27] *** idodeclare <idodeclare!~textual@cpe-76-185-177-63.satx.res.rr.com> has joined #illumos[01:38:09] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@unaffiliated/hemi770> has quit IRC (Quit: Oh my god, it's full of stars!)[01:50:21] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@208.79.89.189> has joined #illumos[02:46:03] <richlowe> rmustacc: ping?[02:47:50] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@170-21-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[02:51:42] *** serapheim <serapheim!~serapheim@DELPHIX-COR.ear2.SanJose1.Level3.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[02:56:37] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@208.79.89.189> has quit IRC (Quit: Oh my god, it's full of stars!)[02:58:08] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@208.79.89.189> has joined #illumos[03:01:13] *** jubal <jubal!~jubal@226-5-237-24.gci.net> has joined #illumos[03:12:18] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@unaffiliated/wli> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[03:15:59] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@rrcs-184-74-185-250.nyc.biz.rr.com> has joined #illumos[03:16:06] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@rrcs-184-74-185-250.nyc.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Changing host)[03:16:06] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@unaffiliated/wli> has joined #illumos[03:16:25] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@unaffiliated/wli> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[03:16:49] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@unaffiliated/wli> has joined #illumos[03:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:20:10] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[03:43:30] <richlowe> LeftWing: don't suppose the new redmine does markdown? :)[03:43:44] <LeftWing> It does, but it's a big switch.[03:43:55] <LeftWing> I need to finish writing a converter[03:44:08] <LeftWing> For all the existing markup[03:44:26] <richlowe> oh, it's not per-thing or anything? :\[03:44:34] <LeftWing> Right, they didn't do it a sensible way[03:44:52] <LeftWing> i.e., store whichever was in use when the text was stored[03:53:25] <richlowe> sheesh, can we kick ksh93 to userland already :\[03:56:36] *** gh34 <gh34!~textual@cpe-184-58-181-106.wi.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[03:57:46] *** wacki <wacki!~wacki@i577B0C9B.versanet.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:15:44] *** hadfl <hadfl!~hadfl@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: bye...)[04:15:44] *** andyf <andyf!~andyf@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: nn)[04:16:11] *** andyf <andyf!~andyf@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has joined #illumos[04:16:37] *** hadfl <hadfl!~hadfl@omniosce.ee.ethz.ch> has joined #illumos[04:27:45] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:28:07] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has joined #illumos[04:31:55] <LeftWing> richlowe: IPD![04:38:50] <richlowe> your manual page one first![04:42:49] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@unaffiliated/wli> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:58:20] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has quit IRC (Quit: jcea)[04:58:32] *** nyc <nyc!~nyc@unaffiliated/wli> has joined #illumos[05:16:12] *** medfly <medfly!~fly@unaffiliated/medfly> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[05:19:12] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@208.79.89.189> has quit IRC (Quit: Oh my god, it's full of stars!)[05:27:03] *** TwoADay <TwoADay!~hemi770@208.79.89.189> has joined #illumos[05:40:57] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has joined #illumos[05:58:23] *** freakazoid0223 <freakazoid0223!~matt@pool-108-52-159-210.phlapa.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC 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connection)[07:55:24] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has joined #illumos[08:21:10] *** hemi770_ is now known as hemi770[08:44:33] <rmustacc> richlowe: pong?[08:49:52] <tsoome> https://paste.dilos.org/?a7c165473ff18af7#53fhPYWE0zfQ3RNcNMCCiAV/G1k3wXsjnoqgk8Hr7+U= - the data is all there, now need to pretty print:)[08:57:11] <clapont> hi everyone![09:02:00] *** wacki <wacki!~wacki@i577B823E.versanet.de> has joined #illumos[09:02:42] *** khng300 <khng300!~khng300@unaffiliated/khng300> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)[09:02:57] *** khng300 <khng300!~khng300@unaffiliated/khng300> has joined #illumos[09:20:39] *** clapont <clapont!~clapont@unaffiliated/clapont> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[09:27:42] *** jelmd <jelmd!~purple@port-ip-88-150-100-107.reverse.mdcc-fun.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:47:03] *** jocthbr <jocthbr!~salci@138-122-44-143.host.cicloti.com.br> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:47:03] *** alanc 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has joined #illumos[11:55:06] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@94.14.32.34> has joined #illumos[11:59:23] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has quit IRC (Quit: 410 Gone)[12:04:31] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has joined #illumos[12:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:20:09] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[12:29:21] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@131.234.43.230> has joined #illumos[12:30:07] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:32:31] *** despair86 <despair86!~rick@cpe-68-203-175-104.tx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:32:43] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has joined #illumos[13:01:09] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: nbhauke)[13:02:17] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[13:04:26] *** amrfrsh <amrfrsh!~Thunderbi@131.234.43.230> has quit IRC (Quit: amrfrsh)[13:07:33] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:24:46] *** baojg <baojg!~baojg@162.243.44.213> has joined #illumos[13:30:59] *** psarria <psarria!~psarria@142.red-79-146-98.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:50:52] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[13:52:54] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[14:16:34] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: nbhauke)[14:26:28] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[14:27:51] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:04:34] <toasterson> Would anybody be interested to kick Chop SUNcs into peices to have a slimmer base install?[15:14:25] *** Kurlon_ 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seconds)[18:20:09] <richlowe> rmustacc: Were you against telling gcc we did hidden linkonce properly because it needed the fixed ld?[18:20:29] <richlowe> rmustacc: (it'd make my test results cleaner.)[18:21:05] <rmustacc> I don't recall ever reaching any decision there.[18:21:09] <rmustacc> I'd defer to you.[18:21:29] <rmustacc> It is certainly complicated to always orchestrate that, but sometimes those are the costs we have to pay.[18:21:34] <richlowe> well, I don't actually mind beyond being annoyed we fail so many tests because the tests assume it'll work[18:21:40] <richlowe> despite the code only doing it when gld[18:21:48] <richlowe> (in 7)[18:22:20] <richlowe> I/we can wait, and see how long things take[18:22:28] <richlowe> it's possible by the time we care, having the new ld won't be so unlikely[18:23:10] <igork> richlowe: did you test gcc8?[18:23:22] <richlowe> toasterson: chopping up SUNWcs would be good, but it's not easy and it's likely you'd end up having to provide enough dependencies it wouldn't actually slim things down that much[18:23:28] <richlowe> finally renaming SUNWcs would be good too :)[18:24:46] <richlowe> toasterson: the annoying part is you don't want people upgrading to have things disappear from under them.[18:26:33] <richlowe> toasterson: but in general, anything that required the manual pages being split into *.inc.* manifest files, would benefit from splitting up just to make it less of a damn mess :)[18:27:01] <richlowe> igork: yes, it knows we support it properly.[18:27:07] <richlowe> igork: actually, it thought we did before I fixed it so we actually did[18:27:54] <igork> richlowe: thanks for info. i have plans to test it on next month[18:28:18] <richlowe> as of right now, I have 3 illumos bugs to fix the thunk naming issue, and 1 gcc/binutils bug we don't care about.[18:28:31] <richlowe> "... bugs to fix, the thunk naming ..."[18:28:56] <igork> richlowe: did you try to use/test 64bit as default with gcc+binutils?[18:29:08] <richlowe> and the thunk naming is up to rmustacc and timing whether we want to work around it, or fix it.[18:29:59] <rmustacc> igork: richlowe certainly didn't test things that you want to the degree you want. Just do it yourself, please.[18:30:04] <rmustacc> You're in your own world, anyways.[18:30:27] <igork> rmustacc: i do my test, my question was about tries, nothing else[18:30:56] <rmustacc> richlowe: Yeah, I need to get back and figure out the right answer there, sorry.[18:31:34] <rmustacc> igork: That's not been my experience with your requests. ;)[18:32:36] <richlowe> 8 is at the bottom of my list of things, because 7 is the better target[18:33:00] <richlowe> so I won't be trying anything new there until I know 7 is ok[18:33:08] <igork> rmustacc: my question was to richlowe while he try to do something with gcc. i do my own tests with 64bit bootstrap - gcc+binutils - a long time and i'm interested in if someone else tried it[18:33:44] <igork> richlowe: thanks for info[18:52:43] *** idodeclare <idodeclare!~textual@cpe-76-185-177-63.satx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[19:01:25] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p5DEEF946.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[19:10:13] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p4FFAB4F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[20:02:53] <toasterson> richlowe yes i know. I basicly want to unify what tribblix and omnios have done on their own and update it with some sensible changes. The Idea is that illumos-consolidation (probably not it's correct name) includes everything and the seperate package only have dependencies on what they really depend. With that we do not uninstall anyting (Which IPS doesn't do anyway IIRC) that people have atm and still allow for the flexibiltiy to[20:02:54] <toasterson> create very small footprint colsolidations that can be used in zones instead.[20:04:49] <richlowe> you're using the terms probably-wrongly in a way that means I don't understand.[20:05:19] <richlowe> but splitting SUNWcs, system/library, etc, would be good![20:05:32] <richlowe> system/library, especially, is also easy, since the boundaries are really obvious :)[20:42:56] <toasterson> richlowe I was trying to adress your concern about removing software from peoples computers. The way I see it the consolidation packages like osnet-consolidation should install everything the way we know it. system/library should only install libc and have no dependencies. In that way people (i.e me) whio want a minimalist base with only libc and consorts for zones can do that. While people that want the full os still have all the[20:42:56] <toasterson> tools.[20:43:53] <richlowe> consolidation packages don't install anything[20:43:57] <richlowe> they just constrain versions[20:44:13] <toasterson> richlowe yes. and thus pull all the others[20:44:20] <richlowe> no[20:44:59] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@98.13.72.207> has joined #illumos[20:46:39] <richlowe> and the surprise removal happens because SUNWcs gets upgraded (removes bin/foo), but nothing depends on system/foo (now contains bin/foo)[20:46:50] <richlowe> and if you make SUNWcs depend on system/foo to rectify that, you haven't actually made the install surface smaller[20:53:22] <toasterson> yeah you are right. consolidation/osnet/osnet-incorporation only installs itself.... and does not pull dependencies.[20:53:49] <toasterson> Thats not behaviour I would have expected.[20:54:46] <toasterson> what I was thinking of is to have certain packages pull in both system/library and system/foo and thus not have system/library depend on system/foo[21:03:18] <LeftWing> toasterson: An incorporation is not a meta package, as I understand. It merely _constrains_ the set of other packages and package versions that can be installed.[21:03:51] <toasterson> yep I just realized that thought error when playing woth pkg :)[21:03:53] <LeftWing> There are examples of meta packages (e.g., "build-essential" on OI) that are really just packages that don't deliver anything but "depends" entries[21:04:03] <LeftWing> OK, great haha[21:04:53] <toasterson> What is interesting to me is that they both use the depend action for that. I'll have to dig into some manifests to look at those two packages.[21:05:40] <toasterson> ah found the deifference[21:05:55] <toasterson> type=require vs type=incorporate[21:15:31] *** chrisBF <chrisBF!519d0514@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.157.5.20> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[21:26:42] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:27:10] *** jelmd <jelmd!~purple@port-ip-88-150-100-107.reverse.mdcc-fun.de> has joined #illumos[21:27:54] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has joined #illumos[21:36:42] *** ghost1 <ghost1!~ghost1@c-73-245-52-228.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[21:42:16] *** fanta1 <fanta1!~fanta1@p200300F76BC96E009011F2EDEB361F1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: fanta1)[21:58:27] *** ghost1 <ghost1!~ghost1@c-73-245-52-228.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: ghost1)[22:02:57] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[22:04:47] *** ghost1 <ghost1!~ghost1@c-73-245-52-228.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[22:05:01] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has joined #illumos[22:15:19] <igork> richlowe: https://paste.dilos.org/?b3e26b44bb0d37c3#ZUa4EVrfvfrG/WyesF4FCJkVe7Feoid4Y9BQKsaLap8=[22:15:39] <igork> try to pre-build illumos-ld and try to build illumos by it[22:16:20] <igork> it was working some time ago - i didn't try it a long time, but today, with new ld updates, it is not working[22:17:02] <igork> question is: do i need build new build with new LD -> install it -> and try repbuild illumos again by new ld ?[22:17:17] <igork> or you have some another hint how to do it?[22:19:02] <igork> i have used steps: https://paste.dilos.org/?e8ff5210b1787aca#bm1hm5Gqr1EdSKMACE++XNPlvInWGmxVyHfDGGHPqVg=[22:19:39] <igork> and i failed now on libld[22:19:57] <igork> if i try to do origin debug build - no issues[22:20:01] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:20:10] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[22:20:23] <igork> but by original steps i still using ld from build host[22:21:55] *** wacki <wacki!~wacki@i577B823E.versanet.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Lingo: www.lingoirc.com)[22:31:05] *** nbhauke <nbhauke!~hauke@p4FFAB4F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: nbhauke)[22:33:18] <richlowe> looks like you're not building the things ld needs[22:34:03] <igork> richlowe: they are steps based on your older info. could you please help me identify steps for pre-build ld?[22:34:14] <igork> what i missed?[22:34:39] <richlowe> well looking at that, libelf?[22:34:57] <igork> https://paste.dilos.org/?e8ff5210b1787aca#bm1hm5Gqr1EdSKMACE++XNPlvInWGmxVyHfDGGHPqVg=[22:35:00] <igork> line 17[22:35:12] <igork> or - libelf need for libld ?[22:35:32] <igork> and need change oreder?[22:36:25] <igork> i see now - need libelf before libld[22:38:39] *** lblume <lblume!~lblume@greenviolet/laoyijiehe/lblume> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[22:39:12] *** lblume <lblume!~lblume@greenviolet/laoyijiehe/lblume> has joined #illumos[22:50:38] <igork> richlowe: sorry for disturb, it is working now - will wait new build by new ld[22:57:17] *** CVLTCMK0 <CVLTCMK0!~Ident@ool-2f1257d8.dyn.optonline.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[23:00:23] <richlowe> am I alone in thinking dladm(1M) using the term PPA is a poor choice?[23:00:41] <richlowe> (I'm not keen on it in the (7D) manuals either)[23:01:00] <richlowe> anything that requires a normal person to read dlpi(7P) seems like crap.[23:03:41] *** CVLTCMK0 <CVLTCMK0!~Ident@ool-2f1257d8.dyn.optonline.net> has joined #illumos[23:15:02] *** wiedi <wiedi!~wiedi@ip5b4096a6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: ^C)[23:37:48] *** ghost1 <ghost1!~ghost1@c-73-245-52-228.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: ghost1)