November 26, 2010 
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November 26, 2010 [00:06:03] *** dobah has quit IRC[00:52:57] *** Aram has quit IRC[00:55:18] *** gebi has quit IRC[01:04:47] *** trbs has quit IRC[01:09:24] *** gber has quit IRC[01:39:04] *** edude03 has joined #illumos[01:52:16] *** Hedonista has quit IRC[01:55:23] *** Hedonista has joined #illumos[02:04:52] *** hajma has joined #illumos[02:11:29] *** _ams_ has quit IRC[02:19:54] *** zynox has quit IRC[02:23:23] *** zynox has joined #illumos[02:24:51] *** Sloar has joined #illumos[02:31:41] *** Sloar has left #illumos[03:15:40] *** tomww has joined #illumos[03:16:08] *** sparc-kly has quit IRC[03:36:00] *** xmikus01 has quit IRC[03:36:28] *** jelmd has quit IRC[03:42:32] *** xapiens has quit IRC[03:46:56] *** andersenep has joined #illumos[03:48:11] *** jelmd has joined #illumos[03:53:08] *** davenz has joined #illumos[03:53:10] *** andersenep has quit IRC[03:54:31] *** marsell has quit IRC[04:07:22] *** marsell has joined #illumos[04:09:22] *** Shoggoth has joined #illumos[04:31:00] *** POloser has joined #illumos[04:31:48] *** marsell has quit IRC[05:33:09] *** Thrae has joined #illumos[05:35:49] *** davenz has left #illumos[06:19:03] <Thrae> What's the current Xen status? It'd at least like to run Illumos as a Xen guest using xVM.[06:20:18] <Triskelios> domU should work, dom0 only kinda works[06:25:44] <Thrae> As much as it would be pure evil, I'm thinking of upgrading from OpenSolaris to Solaris 11 Express and running Illumos as a guest until I can switch 'em.[06:28:05] <Triskelios> the dom0 support is sketchy (and Oracle is EOFing it). it wasn't able top use all of the physical memory on the system I tested it on[06:34:43] <Thrae> Yeah. I'm torn on what to do for the production system's future, currently also running OpenSolaris. We're looking at HIPAA-compliant storage and I don't like where Oracle Solaris is heading.[07:03:42] *** Zauberpo1y has joined #illumos[07:05:02] *** Zauberpony has quit IRC[07:06:59] <FrostCS> I've been stringing myself along as well where to go from xVM, seems like xenserver will be on the testing block next time I have a chance.[07:21:42] *** crazybiceps has joined #illumos[07:22:02] <crazybiceps> where do i download illumos?[07:23:37] <Triskelios> crazybiceps: http://www.illumos.org/projects/illumos-gate/wiki/How_To_Build_Illumos[07:30:12] *** crazybiceps has left #illumos[07:30:12] *** DaQatz has quit IRC[07:30:24] *** DaQatz has joined #illumos[07:42:54] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[07:43:52] *** coaster has joined #illumos[07:44:35] *** McBofh has quit IRC[07:50:32] *** alhazred has joined #illumos[08:00:27] *** gebi has joined #illumos[08:29:14] <madwizard> Coffee[08:32:11] *** RoyK has quit IRC[08:41:08] <lblume> Yes, that.[08:46:05] *** HyperJohnGraham has quit IRC[08:47:11] <madwizard> :)[08:49:47] *** freetown2 has quit IRC[09:02:16] *** CVLTCMK0 has quit IRC[09:07:30] *** HyperJohnGraham has joined #illumos[09:07:35] *** CVLTCMK0 has joined #illumos[09:08:37] *** e-jones has joined #illumos[09:20:05] *** m2acis has joined #illumos[09:21:46] *** h- has joined #illumos[09:32:39] *** joffe has joined #illumos[09:34:46] <madwizard> Coffee, ginger and cinnamon[09:36:46] <lblume> Eeek, cinnamon[09:36:58] <joffe> :/[09:37:16] <frankS2> eeeeeew ginger[09:38:51] *** hnhn has joined #illumos[09:39:46] *** gber has joined #illumos[09:41:52] *** e-jones has quit IRC[09:43:35] * lblume has delicious ginger candy[09:47:50] *** e-jones has joined #illumos[09:50:55] *** saablover has joined #illumos[09:54:02] *** schily___ has quit IRC[09:56:23] *** McBofh has joined #illumos[09:58:32] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[09:59:13] *** schily___ has joined #illumos[10:00:51] *** Aram has joined #illumos[10:01:44] *** dmarker has quit IRC[10:01:48] *** dmarker has joined #illumos[10:09:59] *** POloser has quit IRC[10:10:49] *** russiane39 has joined #illumos[10:28:10] *** POloser has joined #illumos[10:28:39] *** TBFOOL has quit IRC[10:33:55] *** kart_ has quit IRC[10:34:14] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[10:35:34] *** dobah has joined #illumos[10:48:49] *** saablover has quit IRC[10:50:09] *** slpz has joined #illumos[10:53:03] *** hsp has joined #illumos[10:55:47] *** hajma has quit IRC[10:55:49] *** hajma_ has joined #illumos[11:10:51] *** dobah has quit IRC[11:11:31] *** mavhc has quit IRC[11:13:49] *** sancho has joined #illumos[11:18:09] *** smrt has quit IRC[11:18:26] *** smrt has joined #illumos[11:24:13] *** pablomh has joined #illumos[11:28:01] *** kart_ has quit IRC[11:29:01] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[11:30:11] *** Tenzer|work is now known as Tenzer|off[11:32:03] *** sancho has quit IRC[11:37:16] *** mavhc has joined #illumos[12:00:34] *** xmikus01 has joined #illumos[12:09:08] *** TBCOOL has joined #illumos[12:09:18] *** Gervystar has joined #illumos[12:14:19] *** trbs has joined #illumos[12:19:56] *** jobo has joined #illumos[12:20:13] <jobo> hello, folks! i have some hard problems getting an Intel 631xESB/632xESB SATA RAID Controller running.[12:21:28] <jobo> the thing is: the BIOS doesn't let me configure that controller as a plain sata controller. so it is a PCI_MASS_RAID and ahci does not attach, i do not see any drives.[12:21:46] <jobo> i would *love* to have a way to let ahci attach. I've tried some tweaks that google gave me, but no success so far.[12:22:00] <jobo> ain't there a magic boot arg?[12:22:13] <jobo> ( i just asked the very same question on #openindiana; actually i mixed up both projects. )[12:22:31] <lblume> IF controller is RAID, the driver won't work.[12:22:44] <lblume> You should ask Oracle how they managed to certify that hardware.[12:22:46] <jobo> lblume: nice to see you again. :)[12:23:00] <Triskelios> the HCL normally has the driver info[12:23:12] <Triskelios> jobo: you can try to force ahci to attach by using update_drv[12:23:37] <jobo> google told me about update_drv, but does this work at install time?[12:24:29] <Triskelios> in the installer environment, anyway[12:25:41] <jobo> you mean: i use a livecd, make a voodoo update_drv, driver attaches and install results in a bootable system?[12:26:12] <Triskelios> *if* it attaches[12:26:46] <Triskelios> you'll probably have to edit driver_aliases on the installed system to make the same change[12:28:26] <Triskelios> some controllers at least need memory mappings set up very early in boot so it's not guaranteed to work, but certainly doesn't hurt to try[12:29:26] <Triskelios> ...oh, wow, someone has patched GRUB to fix this[12:29:33] <jobo> as far as i've learned there is an if statement at http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/intel/io/pci/pci_boot.c#is_pciide that blocks this[12:29:36] <Triskelios> http://rants.atmurray.net/2009/06/sata-ahci-mode-on-systems-without-bios.html[12:30:57] <Triskelios> jobo: that doesn't matter, it's special casing for parallel ATA[12:32:00] <jobo> ok, makes sense. i found that line of code in a bug ticket, where the reportee talks about a legacy pata workaround.[12:32:22] <jobo> but the grub hack looks promising[12:32:34] <jobo> ...more generic[12:32:53] <Triskelios> yeah, it changes the device mode early enough that the OS doesn't have to do anything and guarantees that the BAR and other addresses are set up correctly[12:32:57] *** e^ipi has quit IRC[12:33:17] *** POloser has quit IRC[12:33:18] *** FrostCS has quit IRC[12:33:18] *** sponix has quit IRC[12:33:37] *** sponix has joined #illumos[12:33:39] *** POloser has joined #illumos[12:33:46] *** e^ipi has joined #illumos[12:33:49] <Triskelios> GRUB is in the illumos tree, although you can build it by itself. you need the Solaris and ZFS patches, though[12:34:14] *** FrostCS has joined #illumos[12:34:47] <jobo> you mean, the illumos grub already contain solaris+zfs[12:35:30] <jobo> and i'd have to port the patch from grub-0.97 to illumos[12:36:21] <Triskelios> jobo: should be trivial, we're also GRUB 0.97[12:36:58] <jobo> could i patch illumos' grub, build it on illumos and just take the stage1 binary and use it for opensolaris/openindiana/solaris-express?[12:37:24] <jobo> where "use" is defined as: rebuild a livecd[12:37:43] <jobo> (well, not with express)[12:38:21] <Triskelios> yes, unless Solaris Express' GRUB has changes to support their new zpool version[12:39:25] <jobo> hm, didn't know about new zpool version.[12:40:25] <jobo> but this is a general drawback: i would like to have a stable solution. with a simple boot arg i could implement that stability by documentation.[12:40:30] *** hsp has quit IRC[12:41:03] <jobo> with a grub hack, that new zpool version is one example of a continuation barrier.[12:44:17] <His_Holiness> btw .. does SE11 support LDOMs on t5* servers ?[12:45:13] <Triskelios> His_Holiness: why are you asking here?[12:46:14] <His_Holiness> Triskelios: because you mentioned se11 few lines above so now - why did you do so?[12:46:50] <Triskelios> I only mentioned it once after jobo had a question about GRUB[12:47:20] <His_Holiness> Triskelios: do you touched|harmed by my previous Q: ?[12:47:26] <His_Holiness> ++feel ^^[12:47:28] <Triskelios> yes, it's off topic[12:47:41] <Triskelios> for a competing system, no less[12:48:23] *** robski has joined #illumos[12:48:45] <robski> anyone home ?[12:48:47] <His_Holiness> hmm, okay .. thanks much for leting me know .. i'd no more call daemons here[12:49:21] <robski> hi all, here is a newbie calling for Illumos, trying to figure out if and how I can help the development[12:51:19] <Triskelios> robski: hi again :)[12:51:25] <robski> ;-)[12:51:40] <robski> long time agoooo[12:52:42] <jobo> ain't grub gpl and oracle must publish any patches?[12:53:07] <jobo> ...well, off topic, i guess :)[12:53:11] <Triskelios> jobo: yup (to anyone to recieves the binary anyway)[12:55:27] <robski> got just my first Nexenta installation completed on a VirtualBox VM, looking now to start contributing to Illumos[12:56:13] <robski> Illumos says I should be running b134, well... the latest Nexenta I just installed apparently does (134f)[12:58:21] <Triskelios> I suspect it would be difficult to satsify the build requirements on Nexenta[12:58:55] <Triskelios> also you wouldn't be able to 'onu' the new packages without an IPS-based system[12:59:17] <robski> mmm... Illumos site doesn't mention which OS to install[12:59:30] <robski> only mention "if you are running OpenIndiana..."[12:59:44] <robski> shall I install OpenSolaris x86 first ?[13:00:01] <Triskelios> "You should be running b134, the last build available from pkg.opensolaris.org/dev"[13:00:13] <Triskelios> that's referring to the OpenSolaris distribution[13:00:15] <robski> ok, openSolaris then we go for. Stay tuned...[13:01:11] <madwizard> I compiled illumos on openindiana dev_147[13:01:11] <Triskelios> I would recommend OpenIndiana if you don't want a weird mixture of old and new software[13:01:19] *** sancho has joined #illumos[13:01:19] <robski> yuk... get the Oracle logo on their page[13:02:55] <Aram> robski: just use OpenIndiana from the start. it works and it's faster (no need to do two upgrades).[13:03:25] <Aram> Triskelios: my system is a mixture of old OSOL, OI and SX 11 :D.[13:04:23] <robski> ok, downloading OpenIndiana 147 x86 now ...[13:04:53] <robski> (and trashing my Nexenta virtualbox machine meanwhile)[13:06:51] *** Gervystar_ has joined #illumos[13:06:51] *** Gervystar has quit IRC[13:06:52] *** Gervystar_ is now known as Gervystar[13:07:33] *** McBofh has quit IRC[13:09:47] *** eXeC001er has joined #illumos[13:12:07] <robski> booting the VirtualBox off the OpenIndiana 147 ISO now...[13:12:51] <Aram> You will have a very unpleasant experience with VirtualBox[13:13:05] <jobo> how do i patch+build illumos' grub? will i pass it when i follow the wiki instruction on how to build illumos-gate?[13:13:17] <Aram> it could take 12 hours to build, you hit a pathological case when building illumos.[13:13:34] <robski> Aram, why is that ?[13:13:42] <madwizard> Depends on machine[13:13:47] <Aram> because VirtualBox has a bug.[13:13:57] <Aram> that is triggered by the compilation process.[13:13:59] <madwizard> Ah, VBox, right[13:14:01] <robski> nearly all programs have bugs[13:14:06] <His_Holiness> Aram: virtual box is one big bug[13:14:28] <robski> Aram, which bug is that ?[13:15:03] <madwizard> VBox is nice, because it's completely free and works *on* illumos, but if VMware released a illumos server, I'd grab it any time.[13:15:28] <Aram> a bug that causes it to work very unsatisfactory. I don't think VBox developers are even aware of this bug.[13:15:41] <madwizard> No one filed the bug?[13:16:28] <robski> has "the bug" got any identification ?[13:16:40] <Aram> no, and no.[13:16:52] <robski> aah...[13:17:25] <robski> ok, we will see how it behaves with the compilation.[13:17:52] <madwizard> Aram: And could you file this bug?[13:18:05] <jobo> erm, i am confused. where do i find grub!? illumos, oi?[13:19:30] <Aram> madwizard: filling a bug this vague "illumos takes 5 times longer to build in VBox then in VMware" is unlikely to get resolved. Probably most VBox devs are not even aware of illumos. The problem should be broken down to it's root cause, that requires some analysis and as far nobody had the time/spirit to do it.[13:19:35] <Aram> jobo: illumos.[13:20:34] <jobo> ok, i am cloning illumo-gate and afterwards (seems to takes some hours or so for some reason?) i will find my beloved egg? :)[13:20:46] <Aram> jobo: you can build only grub, if that's what you care about. you don't have to build all the tree.[13:21:22] <Aram> yes, it takes hours to clone, maybe you could try bitbucket or github, I've heard that repo is faster.[13:21:33] <Aram> hg.illumos.org is required only if you need to push.[13:21:48] <jobo> i couldn't even browse the hg repo by www[13:22:00] <jobo> because it's so slow[13:22:03] <Triskelios> http://hg.openindiana.org/illumos-gate is also a mirror[13:22:13] <Triskelios> hgweb is broken in illumos.org[13:22:17] <jobo> aaaaw, thx[13:25:51] <robski> fun... the OpenIndiana install ISO gets loaded (have to choose the text console), asks keyboard and language, then drops straight into console login prompt. Which default pwd for "root" ?[13:26:21] <Aram> jobo: even if Oracle publishes grub patches for newer zpool version, they wouldn't be of much use since we don't support the newer zpools anyway :-).[13:26:53] <Triskelios> robski: you can't log in as root, use jack/jack[13:26:54] <jobo> my aim is to build one stage1 and use it on whatever brand i wish to.[13:27:04] <Triskelios> robski: the installer needs X..[13:27:07] <robski> bingo ! Thx, Triskelios[13:27:17] <Triskelios> (unless you downloaded the text installer)[13:27:45] <robski> no, the X installer blocked, launch the welcome screen, then nothing anymore[13:28:17] <robski> trying now with the VESA driver...[13:28:20] <jobo> my understanding is, that i just need a patched stage1. i do not need to touch any other bits of grub. i hope, that's right. :)[13:29:20] <jobo> sry for being indifferent about the "brands" of solaris. i don't want to touch feelings here. ;)[13:29:51] <robski> like starting a discussion about the best editor ... is like holy wars[13:30:10] <robski> as long as it fits the man's job, I alway say[13:30:52] <jobo> same here. i even have windows on one disk and a hackintosh for some esoteric apps.[13:30:53] *** mustang has joined #illumos[13:31:20] <jobo> wel, let's not start that discussion ;)[13:32:51] <lblume> Let's have a coffee instead.[13:33:21] <lblume> Though I do enjoy following one of those crazy discussions while sipping on my coffee. That makes it for a great Friday afternoon.[13:33:38] <jobo> lol[13:33:52] <robski> the OpenIndiana installation with VESA driver gets stuck at the same point: launches the graphics console, but no window or prompts for any next step in its installation[13:34:12] <robski> lblume... don't tempt[13:34:19] <robski> lol[13:35:28] *** joffe has quit IRC[13:35:30] <jobo> "if apple had taken zfs i'd kick out solaris."[13:35:33] * lblume points randomly and shouts: THIS GUY THERE SAYS EMACS SUCKS![13:36:02] <robski> rofl[13:36:52] <robski> the OpenIndiana boot message says that it detects 32 CPUs on my server... Cool, since it runs in a VBox machine on a PC with only a single CPU socket[13:36:57] <robski> OpenIndiana is great !![13:37:49] <lblume> Yup. With each copy of it, you get up to 31 free CPUs.[13:37:51] <madwizard> robski: It detects 256 cpus on my 4coure i3[13:38:08] <madwizard> Coffee[13:38:39] <jobo> sx11 also has that magic cpu multiplier[13:38:58] <lblume> madwizard: I'll go with that. Please get the flame-war started while I go pour myself a cup.[13:39:03] <robski> a fast road to supercomputing on affordable desktops[13:39:19] <madwizard> :)[13:39:41] <robski> but it's stuck again after launching the graphical 'console'[13:39:56] <robski> ok, I run this bit inside a 'rdesktop' session to my PC...[13:40:12] <robski> Should I give it a true monitor, and launch it directly from the PC itself?[13:41:07] <lblume> robski: It's the way I run it, and it works fine.[13:41:45] <lblume> though I've disabled gdm now, not needed.[13:55:02] <robski> ok, got the OpenIndiana proceeding now : had to increase the amount of RAM for the Vbox VM to 512MB[13:55:47] *** joffe has joined #illumos[13:56:48] <robski> RTFM : installation system requirements for OpenIndiana ... it's Friday[14:01:15] <madwizard> robski: 1 Gig of RAM is a minimum for sensible work[14:03:46] <lblume> VBox default to 768 when you select the OpenSolaris OS type.... So you have a streak of masochism deep inside, right?[14:03:53] <robski> I would love that, but this PC has only 1 GB[14:04:05] <lblume> Then it's just not fit for virtualization[14:04:22] <robski> lblume... yup, I am dating from the stoneages, where we had to squeeze our code in a few MB of RAM[14:04:25] <Aram> you can't physically build illumos with that amount of RAM. it's not slow, it can't be done.[14:04:27] <lblume> Skip a coffee and buy yourself 3 GB more[14:04:51] <robski> gonna wash some cars at the supermarket, this weekend[14:05:35] <jobo> am i about to run into the same problems with 1783MB ram=[14:05:37] <jobo> ?[14:05:48] <lblume> robski: Stone age means flipping mechanical switches. MB are the Golden Age.[14:06:00] <robski> aha... double checked this PC, it has 2 GB[14:06:05] <lblume> Guys, honestly, virtualization starts at 4 GB[14:06:29] <jobo> my host has 4, i am talking about the guest[14:06:53] <lblume> Because at the first hint of swapping, you are in big trouble (I know, I did that by mistake a few days back when I fired S11X alongside an already running XP)[14:06:53] <robski> ok, this is off track for Illumos, but since people love to go sipping coffee, let's continue a little bit on that virtualization resources track :[14:07:30] <robski> won't run a full desktop in a virtual server, to start with : using way too many resources like RAM[14:07:57] <robski> ok, in a virtual desktop, yes. Then you need a big $$ server that can supply tons of RAM to its guest VMs[14:08:18] <robski> that's what I fancy so much on Solaris zones (containers) : their limited resource needs[14:08:40] <robski> sharing resources with the host, not dedicating (typically unused) resources to VMs[14:09:53] <robski> all the hypervisor based VMs just need sooo much RAM : VMware, Vbox, LDOMs, vPars (HP), ...[14:09:55] <Aram> jobo: I don't know if you can build with 1.7GB RAM, it's won't be pleasant for sure if it can be done.[14:10:04] <Aram> s/it's/it/[14:11:05] <jobo> well then i'd temporarily assign 3gb to the guest for building. hope my host can live w/ 1g[14:12:22] <robski> isn't building UNIX code just a bunch of Makefiles, gcc (or cc), ar, ld, ... ? Which part you guys recon consumes so much memory ?[14:14:18] <lblume> Compiling.[14:14:27] <lblume> You've never seen a compiler at work optimizing code?[14:14:36] <robski> I surely did[14:14:51] <lblume> So? That can use a huge amount of memory[14:15:25] <robski> never noticed that, honestly. Problably my programs weren't *that* big.[14:16:08] <robski> only a few thousand lines of code[14:16:16] <lblume> It can also depend on the level of optimization[14:16:35] <robski> true[14:17:11] <robski> and I might even think that it also depends on the length of the routines/functions, no?[14:22:00] <estibi> schily: ping[14:22:16] <robski> ......[14:24:46] *** randw has joined #illumos[14:26:28] <madwizard> robski: ON is a big motherfucker, it really can take your ram[14:27:15] <robski> ok, I got the message, subtly speeking...[14:27:20] <jobo> http://illumos.org/projects/illumos-gate/wiki/How_To_Build_illumos at the bottom is a tabular with some compile time numbers.[14:29:53] <robski> jobo: thx a lot, that's the kind of objective information needed in such arguments: the facts[14:30:42] <jobo> yeah, i got big eyes in front of that table just 10 secs before your last statement ;)[14:31:14] <robski> I will attempt to contribute my own measurements of the compile to this table soon[14:35:27] <jobo> hehe, i am curisous about "soon"[14:35:32] *** held has quit IRC[14:36:14] <robski> will try to launch it before heading for the weekend[14:39:53] <robski> OI is now installed, it is rebooting.[14:40:36] <robski> That "How_To_Build_illumos" page lists some 10's of additional packages to be installed for building the illumos code. Is this for all OI installations?[14:40:40] <robski> rob[14:41:57] <Triskelios> robski: yes[14:43:14] *** cuguardo has quit IRC[14:44:43] *** edude03 has quit IRC[14:51:30] *** Gervystar has quit IRC[14:51:32] *** toddf has quit IRC[14:51:33] *** Andrew1 has quit IRC[14:51:34] *** |woody| has quit IRC[14:51:34] *** schily has quit IRC[14:51:34] *** trbs has quit IRC[14:51:34] *** TBCOOL has quit IRC[14:51:34] *** Aram has quit IRC[14:51:34] *** CVLTCMK0 has quit IRC[14:51:35] *** zynox has quit IRC[14:51:35] *** odyi has quit IRC[14:51:35] *** pothos has quit IRC[14:51:35] *** Tenzer|off has quit IRC[14:51:36] *** lblume has quit IRC[14:51:36] *** movement has quit IRC[14:51:36] *** glance has quit IRC[14:52:41] *** POloser has left #illumos[14:53:07] <robski> wow... just running a first "pkg install", seeing that this apparent "python" script becomes 282 MB of VSZ !![14:54:19] *** Gervystar has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** trbs has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** TBCOOL has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** Aram has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** CVLTCMK0 has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** zynox has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** odyi has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** pothos has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** glance has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** movement has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** lblume has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** Tenzer|off has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** toddf has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** Andrew1 has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** |woody| has joined #illumos[14:54:19] *** schily has joined #illumos[14:55:14] <Triskelios> robski: pkg creates *extremely* large graphs in memory... also the solver is CPU-intensive =\[14:57:09] <robski> is there any background documentation about how "pkg" works? Just curious to understand its methods.[14:57:58] <lblume> It tries hard to reproduce by itself all the shortcomings that have been solved years ago in other package managers.[14:58:50] <robski> Has it been written in OpenSolaris/OI, or imported from some Linux build ?[14:59:19] <Triskelios> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/pkg/gate/doc/[14:59:50] <lblume> They were careful to ignore completely all other package managers to be sure they would not inadvertently miss a single of those possible problems.[15:01:15] <robski> it's only completed now, for a single package... 23 minutes[15:01:20] <Triskelios> robski: it was designed from scratch, just slightly overengineered... the most similar system would be Conary[15:01:31] <robski> ok, where is my beloved "pkgadd" ?[15:01:46] <madwizard> IT's there[15:01:51] <madwizard> You can still use old packages[15:02:01] <robski> I know, "pgkadd" is also not perfect.[15:02:53] <madwizard> Nothing is[15:03:29] <madwizard> However some of us, if not all here, agree that it would be of greater benefit to use some existing package managers and fix it/enhance[15:03:30] <lblume> Yeah, well, ok, but some are closer to it than others. And pkg is not high on the list.[15:03:34] <robski> what is the strategy for Illumos ? Continuing the "pkg" way of working (needs a bit tuning...), or the Solaris "pkgadd" (and alike) way of working[15:03:50] <madwizard> robski: Illumos is not distribution[15:03:56] <madwizard> robski: OpenIndiana is[15:04:12] <robski> ok, sorry forgot that. As said, I am new to it[15:04:14] <madwizard> robski: illumos wants to be as package manager independent as possible[15:04:23] <madwizard> If I understood Garrett properly[15:04:35] *** hajma_ has quit IRC[15:05:51] <robski> ok, but the "how to build Illumos" page lists to use "pkg" , and this doesn't sound 100% package-manager independent[15:07:14] <madwizard> robski: Because now compilation process builds IPS pakcages[15:07:23] <jobo> illumos does not self host and oi seems to be the prefered build environmen[15:07:24] <jobo> t[15:07:27] <madwizard> robski: It was done that way by Sun[15:09:38] *** hnhn has quit IRC[15:10:30] <madwizard> robski: I don't even try to understand what would have to be done, to remove that dependency. And I think that having some kind of packaging for this is Good For You [tm][15:10:46] <madwizard> I think Garrett wanted to get back to old package format[15:11:05] <madwizard> I may be wrong, however[15:11:33] *** held has joined #illumos[15:12:34] *** hajma_ has joined #illumos[15:13:09] <madwizard> robski: As I understand it, illumos is for people that want to build it themselves and don't mind getting their hands dirty, however acutal build process is pretty simple.[15:13:38] <robski> sure, I have no problem with that. Will get my hands very dirty if needed.[15:13:39] <madwizard> robski: For people that jsut want to use the system, there is nexenta, openindiana, belenix or any other distro[15:15:09] <jobo> ah, the build uses multicore automagically?[15:16:21] <madwizard> Yes[15:17:51] <madwizard> There is even a bit of technology mixed in this process. :)[15:18:14] *** McBofh has joined #illumos[15:18:27] <lblume> I was told the kernel itself was made of pure fairy dust?[15:19:00] <jobo> lol[15:19:15] <jobo> seems to be a different world than linux[15:20:08] <robski> can someone tell me if there is a document/wiki somewhere of the Illumos project which describes the strategies selected to work on its architecture ? I mean, like where to avoid re-use of any principles from existing OSes[15:22:11] <madwizard> robski: I don't think so, so far. You can look for opensolaris developer guide, should be sufficient for now[15:24:07] <Triskelios> http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+on/dev_solaris[15:24:34] *** PatrickS__ has joined #illumos[15:25:09] <Triskelios> (and the links on the left)[15:26:22] *** PatrickS_ has quit IRC[15:26:45] <madwizard> And coffee[15:27:21] <madwizard> A bucket of coffee[15:27:23] <madwizard> Or twoi[15:27:27] <madwizard> s/twoi/two/[15:29:44] *** xapiens has joined #illumos[15:33:02] *** PatrickS___ has joined #illumos[15:33:06] *** hajma__ has joined #illumos[15:33:43] *** hajma_ has quit IRC[15:34:25] *** hnhn has joined #illumos[15:36:24] *** PatrickS__ has quit IRC[15:37:22] <robski> Triskelios, thx a lot for that link. I started my bucket. Do you guys base your work on these texts? Or is there some 'secret' (yummie) agenda for Illumos ?[15:38:21] *** gdamore has quit IRC[15:39:52] *** gdamore has joined #illumos[15:39:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gdamore[15:41:02] *** sergov has joined #illumos[15:41:03] *** kart_ has quit IRC[15:42:03] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[15:43:51] *** gber has quit IRC[15:49:39] *** eXeC001er has quit IRC[15:50:27] *** eXeC001er has joined #illumos[15:52:15] *** sergov has quit IRC[15:55:32] *** carlomagno has quit IRC[15:55:51] <jobo> btw, is zfs specific code actually inside grub/stage1? i just got the idea that zfs might be in stage2 only...[15:57:12] *** carlomagno has joined #illumos[15:58:54] <jobo> ...and stage 1.5[16:31:39] *** RoyK has quit IRC[16:37:07] *** gber has joined #illumos[16:48:43] *** lattera has joined #illumos[16:52:40] *** robski has quit IRC[16:59:38] *** m2acis has quit IRC[17:01:23] *** Triskelios has quit IRC[17:04:33] *** Triskelios has joined #illumos[17:09:14] *** Gervystar has quit IRC[17:09:37] *** Gervystar has joined #illumos[17:26:09] *** kovert has joined #illumos[17:26:16] *** LeftWing has quit IRC[17:27:03] *** hajma__ has quit IRC[17:27:10] *** hajma__ has joined #illumos[17:27:30] *** xmikus01 has quit IRC[17:32:05] *** kart_ has quit IRC[17:32:44] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[17:33:36] * lewellyn reads some random scrollback[17:34:52] <lewellyn> why wouldn't oracle (virtualbox) be aware of illumos, when they support running on opensolaris? they don't live under rocks...[17:35:20] <lewellyn> and how would they fix bugs that haven't been filed, easily?[17:37:11] *** anilg has joined #illumos[17:39:43] <gber> lewellyn: their recent packages already explicitly support OI[17:41:39] *** Tenzer|off is now known as Tenzer[17:42:33] <lewellyn> OI isn't based on illumos yet, afaik. also, those are resposes to scrollback, from hours ago :)[17:43:42] <gber> lewellyn: no, it isn't yet, I was just trying to illustrate that the VBox team is looking beyon the borders of their company[17:44:00] <lewellyn> gber: that's what i was saying too[17:44:48] <lewellyn> scroll back like 6 hours for that conversation i slept through[17:49:23] <lewellyn> now, coffee... *wanders*[17:49:24] *** LeftWing has joined #illumos[17:49:44] *** psychicist has joined #illumos[18:01:08] *** e-jones has quit IRC[18:02:33] *** hnhn has quit IRC[18:06:00] *** Gervystar has quit IRC[18:06:25] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[18:08:12] *** RoyK has quit IRC[18:20:14] *** Triskelios has quit IRC[18:29:02] <disharmony> Which version is the illumos gate currently based on? Is it based upon b147 ?[18:31:52] *** xmikus01 has joined #illumos[18:33:08] *** slpz has quit IRC[18:35:30] *** Triskelios has joined #illumos[18:38:32] *** edp_mobile has joined #illumos[18:44:28] *** hnhn has joined #illumos[18:44:40] *** ffea has joined #illumos[18:49:35] *** cuguardo has joined #illumos[18:56:24] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[19:00:16] *** RoyK has quit IRC[19:03:52] *** andy_js has joined #illumos[19:10:08] *** held has quit IRC[19:11:20] *** xapiens has quit IRC[19:21:25] *** xmikus011 has joined #illumos[19:23:46] *** xmikus01 has quit IRC[19:25:18] *** befreax has joined #illumos[19:25:49] *** xmikus01 has joined #illumos[19:27:03] *** xmikus011 has quit IRC[19:27:36] *** befreax has quit IRC[19:27:53] *** xmikus011 has joined #illumos[19:28:16] *** kart_ has quit IRC[19:29:30] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[19:30:03] *** xmikus01 has quit IRC[19:30:25] *** xmikus01 has joined #illumos[19:33:23] *** xmikus011 has quit IRC[19:36:52] *** held has joined #illumos[19:40:06] *** ffea has quit IRC[19:40:33] *** sergov has joined #illumos[19:53:00] *** HyperJohnGraham has quit IRC[20:00:47] *** Tenzer is now known as Tenzer|off[20:01:26] *** HyperJohnGraham has joined #illumos[20:02:32] *** anilg has quit IRC[20:10:45] *** xapiens has joined #illumos[20:11:03] *** dobah has joined #illumos[20:16:41] *** andy_js has quit IRC[20:23:18] *** andy_js has joined #illumos[20:23:47] *** PatrickS___ has quit IRC[20:27:44] *** dobah has quit IRC[20:29:21] *** dobah has joined #illumos[20:34:33] *** dobah_ has joined #illumos[20:35:29] *** dobah has quit IRC[20:37:36] *** mikw has joined #illumos[20:46:15] *** dobah_ has quit IRC[20:48:55] <igork> hi all[20:49:21] <igork> is anybody know how to create new device in /devices/pseudo ?[20:49:56] <igork> what tools ? is it mknod ?[21:00:31] <h-> devfsadm[21:01:56] <igork> what command line ?[21:02:14] <igork> if I need use it in different root[21:02:28] <igork> devfsadm -r <root>[21:02:32] <igork> what next ?[21:04:24] <igork> # devfsadm -r /tmp/miniroot -i nulldriver[21:04:24] <igork> devfsadm: driver failed to attach: nulldriver[21:06:03] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[21:06:50] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[21:15:14] <tomww> igork: use of mknod is highly unusual on solaris. what do you want to achieve?[21:15:44] <igork> I have to add driver to miniroot[21:16:51] <igork> I have manifest with line: driver name=poll perms="* 0666 root sys"[21:17:13] <igork> how to correct add this driver to miniroot ?[21:17:53] <tomww> probably /et/7minor_perm[21:18:03] <tomww> and /etc/minor_perm[21:18:04] <igork> I have run only add_drv -b <miniroot dir> -p "<>"[21:18:16] <tomww> and assignment pci vendor:card ids is in /etc/driver_aliases[21:18:38] <igork> yes[21:19:01] <igork> all lines presented , but /drvers/pseudo is empty[21:19:45] <igork> what tool created device node in /devices/pseudo ?[21:19:55] <tomww> no need[21:20:24] <tomww> it's created dynamicly, this isnt like with linux where it needs to be created in advance[21:20:29] <igork> maybe I need start devfsadm from svc ?[21:21:05] <tomww> no[21:21:25] *** coaster has quit IRC[21:21:27] <tomww> look:[21:21:37] <igork> I can see message: WARNING: failed to resolve 'scsa,probe' driver alias, defaulting to 'nulldriver'[21:21:42] <igork> how to resolve it ?[21:22:08] <tomww> rep devfs /etc/mnttab[21:22:09] <tomww> /devices /devices devfs dev=66c0000 1290762795[21:22:40] <tomww> igork you might want to stop now trying to populate an empty mountpoint .-)[21:22:49] <igork> what I need to do for resolve my problem ?[21:23:28] <tomww> you do not need to create anything inside /devixes[21:23:30] <igork> I need create miniroot[21:23:42] <igork> with drivers[21:23:47] <tomww> update miniroot? there is already on. you need it for installation?[21:23:55] <igork> yes[21:24:00] <igork> I need new miniroot[21:24:29] <igork> I have crean miniroot and manifests in MOG files[21:24:54] <igork> I want to try prepare my own miniroot[21:25:28] <igork> I can see: driver alias=scsa,nodev alias=scsa,probe name=nulldriver[21:25:29] <tomww> well, the driver is in which format ? SVR4 or somthing else? you could let pkgadd -R /minirootmountpoint AAAthisdriver do the work[21:25:39] <igork> IPS[21:25:58] <tomww> is the driver provided in old SVR4 format?[21:26:10] <igork> I have IPS[21:26:19] <igork> from illumos[21:26:22] <tomww> or do you want to extract the driver from the IPS repository?[21:26:23] <igork> build[21:26:28] <igork> yes[21:26:34] <tomww> ah, okay.[21:26:58] <tomww> cant help much then, you would have to duplicate what the package install does on the live system.[21:27:04] <igork> maybe you know how to work postcripts from IPS packages ?[21:27:32] <tomww> IPS has no postscripts, only very few well defined actions, like macros.[21:27:43] <igork> how to extract postcripts from IPS ?[21:27:52] <igork> ok[21:27:54] <tomww> you could as well try pkg install -R /minirootmountpoint ?[21:28:23] <igork> if /miniroot is zfs vol[21:28:40] <tomww> but this might be not working well, if I think on dependencies not satified on a miniroot... well. not well organized then, this driver addition.[21:28:48] <tomww> ist this a storage driver you want to add?[21:28:49] <igork> I know how to instal driver to another patrition - I want to know - what commands ? :)[21:29:07] <igork> post operaions[21:29:11] <tomww> miniroot might never be a zfs, should be UFS IIRC[21:29:14] <igork> how to find ?[21:29:20] <igork> yes[21:29:27] <igork> miniroot have UFS[21:30:23] <igork> I want to learn how to IPS package driver install to live system[21:30:52] <igork> what post operations will be done after installation ?[21:31:59] <tomww> you would look at the package and watch out the keywords in the pkg python code (pkg source can be checked out from hg repository)[21:33:34] <igork> ok[21:33:37] <igork> thanks[21:34:03] *** randw has quit IRC[21:56:03] *** jobo has quit IRC[22:04:42] *** hsp has joined #illumos[22:07:50] *** marsell has joined #illumos[22:17:01] *** sancho has quit IRC[22:23:52] *** hnhn has quit IRC[22:37:08] *** pjfloyd has joined #illumos[22:40:11] *** spanglywires has joined #illumos[22:57:01] *** hajma has joined #illumos[22:57:24] *** hajma__ has quit IRC[23:02:31] *** sergov has quit IRC[23:05:26] *** hsp has quit IRC[23:10:14] *** spanglywires has left #illumos[23:21:37] *** Aram has quit IRC[23:27:45] *** andy_js has quit IRC[23:28:12] *** h- is now known as hy[23:32:50] *** mikw has quit IRC[23:38:16] *** eXeC001er has quit IRC[23:43:47] *** Gaston|Home has joined #illumos