November 17, 2010 
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November 17, 2010 [00:01:12] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[00:02:06] *** jamesd2 has joined #illumos[00:05:31] *** spked has quit IRC[00:06:54] *** lattera has quit IRC[00:08:04] *** bayoda has quit IRC[00:08:25] *** bayoda has joined #illumos[00:15:05] *** FrostCS has joined #illumos[00:22:49] *** pizdec has quit IRC[00:42:31] *** Shoggoth has joined #illumos[00:50:55] *** xmikus01 has quit IRC[01:11:39] *** Aram has quit IRC[01:13:15] *** sponix has quit IRC[01:13:57] *** postwait has quit IRC[01:21:43] <nrubsig> So... quiet.[01:21:57] <nrubsig> Sounds like Solaris 11 Express stole all the users of Illumos.[01:23:03] <jkimball4> I told you that you summoned the wrong demon[01:23:08] <alanc> zfs crypto is much sexier than slightly-less-crufty-pkgadd[01:23:11] <lewellyn> nrubsig: that or people are busy working.[01:24:58] <alanc> and more seriously, new releases are simply something to check out - someday illumos will start having to have regular snapshots if only to wake people up every so often to say "have you seen what's new since the last one?"[01:25:22] *** sponix has joined #illumos[01:44:32] *** alfism has quit IRC[01:49:48] <freetown2> nrubsig, can't you here the deafening sound of silence?[01:49:53] <freetown2> s/here/hear/[01:50:55] <nrubsig> freetown2: I'm working.[01:51:06] <nrubsig> iconv right now, per gdamore's orders[01:52:40] *** gber has quit IRC[02:01:04] <alanc> if they're his orders they should be accompanied by a check from nexenta[02:01:15] <alanc> otherwise it's just a suggestion/request[02:01:58] <nrubsig> alanc: well, I already have a running prototype which beats Solaris's current /usr/bin/iconv[02:02:08] <jkimball4> sell it![02:02:11] <nrubsig> alanc: faster and as long options[02:02:21] <nrubsig> s/as/has/[02:02:33] <nrubsig> jkimball4: well, tell that gdamore[02:09:48] *** jwit_ has joined #illumos[02:11:08] *** jwit has quit IRC[02:14:06] *** sponix has quit IRC[02:14:58] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[02:16:01] *** boyd has quit IRC[02:16:02] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[02:16:04] *** held has quit IRC[02:16:59] *** HyperJohnGraham has quit IRC[02:17:45] *** HyperJohnGraham has joined #illumos[02:19:43] *** ShadowHntr has joined #illumos[02:21:23] *** sponix has joined #illumos[02:22:15] *** Jondice has quit IRC[02:29:50] *** jwit_ has quit IRC[02:32:26] *** sponix has quit IRC[02:34:46] *** jwit has joined #illumos[02:36:33] *** hajma has joined #illumos[02:41:47] *** sponix has joined #illumos[02:54:32] *** sponix has quit IRC[02:58:18] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[02:58:46] *** boyd has quit IRC[02:58:47] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[03:04:25] *** sponix has joined #illumos[03:24:49] <lewellyn> gdamore: ping?[03:27:58] <lewellyn> gdamore: did you do something for "Marvell 88E8050 Gigabit Ethernet" at some point?[03:30:22] <McBofh> lewellyn: I don't think so[03:30:42] <McBofh> that's pci11ab,4361 which is covered by yukonx - and you have to snarf that directly from Marvell[03:32:10] <lewellyn> McBofh: thanks. i was having a tough time finding it in prtconf[03:32:18] <lewellyn> it's pci8086,3439 here[03:32:29] <lewellyn> yay compatible ids[03:32:36] <McBofh> indeed :)[03:33:06] <lewellyn> as i'm currently using nwam, i don't "need" that interface. and the other is e1000g, so i'll prefer that over a marvell driver any day.[03:33:32] <McBofh> you might find that Masa's myk driver works better for that chip[03:33:35] <lewellyn> McBofh: also, i noted the follow. am i that interesting? ;)[03:33:36] <McBofh> better than yukonx, that is[03:33:47] <ShadowHntr> yeah i've used yukonx on my gateway notebook in the past[03:33:48] <lewellyn> yeah. i was going to try myk if gdamore didn't poke at it at some point.[03:34:00] <ShadowHntr> and myk[03:34:02] <lewellyn> i have had issues with myk in the past though.[03:34:22] <lewellyn> nothing i could really ever pin down. most of masa's drivers, in fact. :([03:34:34] <McBofh> me too, but I could only ever ascribe that to the particular version I found in the Dell I was using[03:34:44] <McBofh> otoh, you _might_ be able to get it working with yge[03:34:47] <McBofh> lemme check something...[03:35:00] <lewellyn> yeah. i don't have enough random hardware around to rule out the buggy onboard crap.[03:35:26] <lewellyn> and that's about the only time i need to head over to get things like nfo or myk[03:36:10] *** Edgeman has joined #illumos[03:36:25] <McBofh> lewellyn: you might be in luck - yge.h:#define DEVICEID_MRVL_4361 0x4361[03:36:42] <lewellyn> orly[03:36:50] <McBofh> so see if you can update_drv -a -i ' "pci11ab,4361" ' yge[03:36:59] <lewellyn> i'll try that later. though i can't figure out why i would need a second nic on here.[03:37:22] <lewellyn> yge0: flags=1000802<BROADCAST,MULTICAST,IPv4> mtu 1500 index 3[03:37:26] <lewellyn> well i can plumb it[03:37:32] * lewellyn hands McBofh a cookie[03:37:47] <McBofh> ta, as long as it's not a ddi_iblock_cookie_t[03:37:51] <lewellyn> hahaha[03:38:04] <lewellyn> nothing anywhere near that complex[03:38:48] <McBofh> phew[03:38:51] * McBofh chomps[03:41:58] *** dreh has quit IRC[03:52:24] <jbk> haha[03:52:56] <jbk> ISTR garrett encountered enough illogical behavior w/ the yukon chips that he gave up[03:53:16] <lewellyn> why am i unsurprised?[03:56:12] *** N2Deep has quit IRC[04:00:33] *** edude03 has joined #illumos[04:09:57] *** HyperJohnGraham has quit IRC[04:10:05] *** edp_work has quit IRC[04:20:48] *** xapiens has quit IRC[04:24:21] *** edp_work has joined #illumos[04:25:21] *** dnm has quit IRC[04:31:43] *** descipher has joined #illumos[04:32:39] *** POloser has joined #illumos[04:35:48] <jbk> btw, anyone who has an interest in ipsec, the ike config file format is going to be changing a bit[04:36:07] <jbk> (the whole ipsec config model should probably be scrapped and redone, but that's a separate issue)[04:36:34] <samuelyounge> Changed how so?[04:36:57] <jbk> well there won't be (at least initially) support for looking up certs in ldap[04:37:14] <jbk> it'll be using kmf to access any certs[04:37:20] <samuelyounge> ok[04:37:33] <jbk> so one thing is that you'll define your keystores and give them names[04:37:54] <jbk> then for either default or specific endpoints, you'll list (by name) which ones to use[04:38:08] <jbk> at least that's my thoughts for now[04:38:23] <nrubsig> jbk: maybe these were all workarounds for patents in the yukon chips ?[04:39:59] <jbk> no idea[04:40:35] <samuelyounge> So was the OpenSolaris ZFS crypto project scrapped? Or has the group continued that effort?[04:40:48] *** greenman31 has joined #illumos[04:40:57] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC[04:41:28] <jbk> well the project was finished.. just it was never done out in the open[04:41:36] <jbk> even before oracle slammed the door shut[04:42:07] <samuelyounge> So did they manage to realse the source on CDDL?[04:42:08] <McBofh> samuelyounge: http://blogs.sun.com/darren/entry/introducing_zfs_crypto_in_oracle[04:42:19] <McBofh> samuelyounge: no, the source has not been released[04:42:27] <jbk> no, as i said, the project was never done out in the open[04:42:38] <jbk> all the source was always behind the firewall[04:43:16] <samuelyounge> Probably slow as molasses anyway.[04:43:39] <McBofh> samuelyounge: you've got no clue[04:43:46] <descipher> jbk: I don't see crypto in demand at this point anyway, however it will be as cloud infra matures in hte next 4-5 years.[04:45:03] <jbk> i did.. i've known overly paranoid places where just the secure deletion aspect of it would be attractive[04:46:37] <descipher> Closed crypto mode is something many government agengies we not be to warm about.[04:48:32] <descipher> I do like the idea that a serviced disk can walk away not have any data leakage effect.[04:49:50] <McBofh> descipher: iirc, the Correct And Certified Way(tm) that's accomplished is with a sledgehammer[04:49:55] <McBofh> literally[04:50:04] *** ShadowHntr has joined #illumos[04:51:16] <freetown2> someone highly recommends the blow torch over the sledgehammer[04:51:22] <freetown2> zero chance of recovery[04:55:57] <alanc> I thought grinders/shredders were often involved as well[04:57:06] <alanc> though of course, at the ultra-secure government sites, they do all three, and then bury the slag behind fences with armed guards, since they still aren't sure the chance of recovery is low enough[04:57:14] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[04:57:18] <ShadowHntr> degausser probably isn't dod compliant[05:11:35] *** smrt has quit IRC[05:11:52] *** smrt has joined #illumos[05:14:34] *** davenz has left #illumos[05:23:58] <jbk> heh i remember that fun.. at a previous job, there was one group that dealt with a government contract[05:24:07] <jbk> and they had to be specially trained[05:24:19] *** HyperJohnGraham has joined #illumos[05:24:22] <jbk> as well as the sun service guys[05:24:31] <jbk> it also meant we had to purchase every hd taht went bad[05:24:51] <jbk> as it couldn't be refurbed like most stuff[05:25:01] <jbk> and that wasn't even dealing with classified info[05:25:23] <alanc> yeah, there's certain customers you just don't RMA drives for, just sell them a new one[05:39:28] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC[05:40:10] <descipher> We actually have an enforced policy that does not allow any harddisk to leave the building alive... :o[05:41:26] *** russiane39 has quit IRC[05:41:32] <descipher> At one point it was $2500 a pop on FC ...ouch![05:44:26] *** russiane39 has joined #illumos[06:09:53] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[06:14:59] *** nrubsig 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#illumos[17:17:50] *** randw has joined #illumos[17:28:57] *** magnon has joined #illumos[17:33:57] *** ravenslay3r has left #illumos[17:37:04] *** randw has quit IRC[17:47:33] *** magnon has quit IRC[17:49:07] *** sponix has quit IRC[17:52:25] *** anilg has joined #illumos[17:52:42] *** postwait has quit IRC[17:53:14] *** |AbsyntH| has quit IRC[17:53:41] *** _ams_ has joined #illumos[17:55:17] *** randw has joined #illumos[17:55:51] *** postwait has joined #illumos[17:59:04] *** joffe has joined #illumos[18:00:54] *** magnon has joined #illumos[18:01:04] *** magnon has quit IRC[18:01:08] *** m2acis has quit IRC[18:05:45] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #illumos[18:12:32] *** held has quit IRC[18:26:32] *** n1c0b has joined #illumos[18:31:46] *** sponix has joined #illumos[18:33:11] *** held has joined #illumos[18:37:01] *** sponix has quit IRC[18:44:10] *** nikolam has joined #illumos[18:50:36] *** samuelyounge has quit IRC[18:52:06] <gdamore> richlowe: ping![18:55:40] *** mikw has 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and running[23:00:08] <madwizard> Coffee[23:00:30] <madwizard> Eh, I'm not up to date[23:00:36] <madwizard> g11 mirror? :)[23:00:43] <lewellyn> i think he forgot an n[23:01:13] <madwizard> I'm on itil training, I'm mostly off the net[23:01:23] <lewellyn> i'm poking at "things"[23:01:24] <madwizard> And this weekend is my conference, so I'm not exactly sane now :)[23:01:46] <lewellyn> madwizard: good luck with the conference. wish i could be there![23:02:11] <madwizard> lewellyn: I wish too, hopefuilyy next year[23:02:16] <lewellyn> yes[23:02:23] <madwizard> Coffee[23:02:43] <madwizard> I hope to have enough business case to get someone from core illumos team to get sponsored here :)[23:02:49] <madwizard> Next year, lso[23:02:50] <madwizard> :)[23:03:03] <lewellyn> this weekend, i'll be rounding up the people i know have no plans and no place to go for thanksgiving and inviting them to my place. that way i can make sure to buy enough stuff. like chairs :)[23:03:26] <lewellyn> it's sad. i have no chairs here aside from our desk chairs.[23:03:46] <lewellyn> i didn't realize that i haven't had the time to have company since we moved in. over a year ago :([23:04:46] *** smrt has quit IRC[23:05:01] *** smrt has joined #illumos[23:09:10] <lblume> lewellyn: 晚上好！[23:09:20] <lewellyn> lblume: ???! to you too[23:10:20] <lblume> someday, I'll complain about your lack of openess :-D[23:10:40] <lewellyn> some day, i'll upgrade securecrt[23:10:46] <lblume> haha[23:10:58] <lewellyn> i only ever think about it when i have a dozen tabs open though[23:11:25] <lblume> I should poke you more often![23:11:26] <lewellyn> hm. it's been a month or two. i should look into windows x servers again.[23:11:46] <lewellyn> i really really want something that doesn't suck and has licensing appropriate for my needs.[23:12:08] <lblume> both at the same time?[23:12:09] <lewellyn> mi/x would be great, aside from the fact that i don't need anywhere near the number of licenses to be able to use floating licenses.[23:12:12] <lewellyn> lblume: yes[23:13:06] <lblume> maybe someday MS will work on it seriously.[23:13:27] <alanc> I've only used Cygwin/X in recent years, Exceed long long ago (NT4/early XP timeframes)[23:13:42] <alanc> but I also don't use X on Windows all that often[23:15:02] <lblume> Cygwin/X was Good Enough for me a few years back. But yeah, my needs were reduced. Decent xterm, editor and remote X.[23:17:16] <lewellyn> alanc: cygwin's X has fundamental problems. at&t's X has problems (not the least of which is that it's ancient). opentext doesn't want to deal with me anymore now that i only need 3 licenses or 2 floating (and they have lots of cruft)...[23:17:29] <lewellyn> how old is xterm 213, btw? :)[23:21:37] *** gdamore has quit IRC[23:22:00] <lewellyn> we scared him off![23:23:17] <alanc> was looking for where the log is in the build, since it's not something easy to find like "ChangeLog[23:23:19] <alanc> "[23:23:27] <alanc> Patch #213 - 2006/4/30 - XFree86 4.5.99.905[23:23:44] *** vitaliy_gusev has quit IRC[23:24:05] <alanc> maybe I should consider updating our xterm again now that the three-releases-a-day spat is past[23:24:10] *** ams_ has quit IRC[23:24:12] *** mikw has quit IRC[23:25:01] <alanc> (well, I guess 3 a week is more correct, but he had a few bum releases in a row)[23:25:16] *** n1c0b has quit IRC[23:25:52] <lewellyn> alanc: see, at&t's is ancient. :P[23:26:00] <lewellyn> they're worse than solaris for xterm updates! ;)[23:26:19] <lewellyn> i am not even sure which version of XF86 they're using[23:26:44] <lblume> 3.3 something?[23:28:41] *** gdamore has joined #illumos[23:28:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gdamore[23:30:30] *** vitaliy_gusev has joined #illumos[23:30:40] <lewellyn> http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2010/11/how-china-swallowed-15-of-net-traffic-for-18-minutes.ars[23:30:44] <lewellyn> totally unrelated[23:30:51] <gdamore> hi vitaliy.[23:31:46] <gdamore> lewellyn: interesting[23:32:10] *** ams_ has joined #illumos[23:32:14] <lewellyn> gdamore: it is, yes. shows how fragile routing can be.[23:32:47] <Meths> BGP routing is the elephant in the room of internet security.[23:33:18] *** kovert has quit IRC[23:33:34] <gdamore> heh.[23:33:50] <gdamore> btw, if Trisk is here, I can't recall the IP of the SPARC system I was supposed to be using.[23:34:23] <Meths> Tenzer: ping[23:34:34] <Tenzer> Meths: Pong[23:34:40] <Tenzer> Oh, 2 sec gdamore[23:35:01] <lewellyn> speaking of sparc, i need to figure out why my poor man's lom isn't working. it seems a rabbit found my type 5 keyboard's cable. again.[23:35:19] *** kovert has joined #illumos[23:35:59] <Tenzer> gdamore: Check /msg[23:38:29] *** stallion has quit IRC[23:48:35] <nrubsig> lewellyn: AT&T UWIN X11 ?[23:48:41] <lewellyn> yes[23:48:58] <lewellyn> isn't that the only x11 of theirs now?[23:49:14] <nrubsig> lewellyn: for Windows, yes[23:49:27] <lewellyn> nrubsig: what else do they do X servers for now?[23:49:29] <nrubsig> lewellyn: what is the current version ? X11R6.7 ?[23:49:45] * lewellyn mumbles and points at alanc[23:50:02] <nrubsig> lewellyn: they have two own distributions for deployment on the server farms they have.[23:50:23] <lewellyn> ok. for external consumption.[23:50:37] <nrubsig> lewellyn: UWIN is basically to control and maintain the Windows machines and consists of the UWIN layer+AST[23:50:45] <nrubsig> lewellyn: both are externally used, too[23:51:08] <lewellyn> ok. uwin's the only at&t x server i've seen recently.[23:52:30] <Triskelios> nrubsig: the current monolithic release of the reference X11 implementation is Xorg 7.5 (with 7.6 pending)[23:52:45] <nrubsig> monotithic ?[23:52:51] * alanc got X11R7.6RC1 published last week before Oracle's mail servers decided x.org was an evil spam domain and cut me off[23:53:05] <lewellyn> alanc: maybe they're hinting something?[23:53:06] <alanc> nrubsig: not monolithic in the sense you're thinking of[23:53:25] <nrubsig> Triskelios: Last which was monolithic is X11R6.9, the whole X11R7.x series is modular and has pretty much eliminated all options for cross-compile[23:53:40] <alanc> nrubsig: bullshit[23:53:47] <alanc> (re: cross-compile)[23:53:49] * lblume realizes Oracle has fired the last of the QA testers for desktop tools on Solaris.[23:54:04] *** hsp has quit IRC[23:54:09] <nrubsig> alanc: Compile on Linux and use on Cygwin is reportedly no longer working[23:54:11] <jbk> s/for desktop tools on Solaris//[23:54:18] * lblume goes patchrm'ing on Firefox and Thunderbird.[23:54:21] <jbk> my experience is that Oracle has fired _all_ QA[23:54:28] <alanc> people cross-compile current builds quite often (and let us know when it fails)[23:54:31] <lewellyn> nrubsig: is it possible that's a cygwin issue, at all?[23:54:31] <lblume> jbk: *somebody* still builds packages.[23:54:32] <jbk> given the rather basic nature of a number of bugs i've encountered[23:54:36] <lblume> patches, I mean.[23:54:37] <lewellyn> considering what brokenness cygwin is[23:54:59] <alanc> mostly they cross-compile on Linux/x86 systems for ARM or other embedded targets[23:54:59] <lblume> Though they forgot the README in the last X patch *looks at alanc*[23:55:03] <nrubsig> alanc: I'm just reporting what the cygwin user list said.[23:55:25] <lewellyn> i stand by my question[23:55:25] <alanc> nrubsig: broken for one case != "eliminated all options"[23:55:47] <alanc> lblume: fortunately, I haven't worked on X patches in quite a long time[23:56:23] <alanc> we don't go around reporting "ksh93 eliminated all command pipe support" just because you had a bug[23:56:24] <lblume> Somebody is wasting your efforts downstream! :-)[23:57:03] <lewellyn> hahaha. people love messing with me. they told me my name was mentioned in an ubuntu changelog.[23:57:05] <nrubsig> alanc: erm... what's wrong with command pipes ?[23:57:08] <lewellyn> turned out to just be mksh :P[23:57:40] <nrubsig> alanc: do you mean x=$(...) or x${ ...;} ?[23:57:45] <nrubsig> er[23:57:51] <nrubsig> x=${ ...;}[23:57:55] <jbk> lblume: well on the DB and E-business suite side, it's pretty bad[23:57:56] * lewellyn hands alanc a cookie[23:58:07] <jbk> basic stuff like 'does it work' seem to go untested[23:58:08] <alanc> I don't remember the exact bug off hand, the details aren't important[23:58:25] <jbk> i guess larry needed another yacht[23:58:33] <jbk> or to buy another racing cup[23:58:46] <nrubsig> alanc: CR #6946957 ("Nested sub shell in command substitution with lots of data hangs") ?[23:58:52] <nrubsig> alanc: That's a bug in fifofs[23:59:22] <nrubsig> alanc: basically we avoid using fifofs now for command substitutions and therefore no longer hit that bug in fifofs.[23:59:47] <alanc> you really want a list of all ksh93 bugs just to prove that we don't tell people "ksh93 eliminated pipes" when the truth is "ksh93 has some bugs"?[23:59:50] <lblume> jbk: You mean, his actor's fee was not sufficient?[23:59:51] <nrubsig> alanc: I've notified kupfer and a few others about the fifofs isssue but the interest is.. low.