November 10, 2010 
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November 10, 2010 [00:02:32] <Triskelios> nachox_: that would be ironic if it was accurate, but opensolaris the distro is gone, but the umbrella infrastructure and subprojects aren't[00:03:19] <nachox_> most of the subprojects arent you mean, ON IS gone[00:04:45] <Triskelios> sure, you could say ON (and the external ARC) were the heart of the project[00:05:39] <nrubsig> s/could/must/[00:05:42] *** PatrickS_ has joined #illumos[00:05:57] <nrubsig> OpenSolaris.org is like a twitching zombie right now[00:06:52] *** Edgeman has joined #illumos[00:07:07] <nrubsig> Oracle ripped (maybe by accident) the heart out of OpenSolaris and then succeded to do the same with the community and _lots_ of customers.[00:07:23] <e^ipi> you think it was accidental?[00:07:31] *** PatrickS has quit IRC[00:07:43] <e^ipi> or that oracle gives a crap about community?[00:07:47] <nachox_> i think IPS and the parts of solaris that were already open before opensolaris are part of the opensolaris umbrela now[00:07:58] <e^ipi> sun did, occasional mismanagement notwithstanding[00:08:04] <nrubsig> If you want to make money than Solaris-to-(Linux|OSX|AIX)-migration is a golden path.[00:08:45] <nachox_> i've seen a lot of new aix deployments here in argentina... and i cant really blame them, its a nice os to work with[00:08:57] <nrubsig> e^ipi: well, I lack finer vocabulary for what happened[00:09:10] <Triskelios> nachox_: erm, what was open before opensolaris (the project, not the distro)?[00:09:18] <nrubsig> nachox_: wanna have fun ? Guess how IBM updated ksh93 in AIX ?[00:09:26] <nachox_> Triskelios, X, gnome[00:09:40] <nachox_> nrubsig, ripped the opensolaris port?[00:09:47] *** joffe has quit IRC[00:09:49] <nrubsig> nachox_: correct[00:09:52] *** Bleubeard has joined #illumos[00:09:56] <nrubsig> no joke[00:10:17] <nachox_> nrubsig, the one in aix 7 or 6?[00:10:28] <nrubsig> nachox_: basically they took the core, build a static ksh93 with it and then ported the custom testsuite stuff to AIX[00:10:32] <nrubsig> AIX7[00:10:49] <nachox_> impressive, very opensource like :)[00:10:57] <nachox_> but hey, they do the same thing with apache[00:11:40] <nachox_> wait, a static ksh93? how much space does a single ksh instance need?![00:11:53] <nrubsig> nachox_: interestingly they inherited the issue with the $(...) command substitutions (minus those caused by Solaris's fifofs) and then updated to the latest ksh93t+ version to get rid of that issue[00:12:25] <nachox_> i'm not familiar with the issues, sorry[00:13:06] <CIA-68> illumos Garrett D'Amore <garrett at nexenta dot com>: (log message trimmed)[00:13:06] <CIA-68> 403 remove support for SVR3 packaging Reviewed by: a.eremin at nexenta dot com Reviewed by: peter.tribble at gmail dot com Approved by: gwr at nexenta dot com -- usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/libadm.h --- a/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/libadm.h Mon Nov 08 21:52:02 2010 -0800 +++ b/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/libadm.h Tue Nov 09 10:20:47 2010 -0800 @@ -262,7 +262,6 @@ extern char *pkgparam __P((char *pkg, char *param)); extern void set_PKGpaths __P((char *path)); extern char *get_PKGLOC __P((v[00:13:06] <CIA-68> __P((void)); -extern void psvr4mail __P((char *list, char *msg, int retcode, char *pkg)); -extern void psvr4pkg __P((char **ppkg)); - /* ptext.c */ /*PRINTFLIKE2*/ extern void ptext __P((FILE *fp, char *fmt, ...)); | usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h --- a/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h Mon Nov 08 21:52:02 2010 -0800 +++ b/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h Tue Nov 09 10:20:47 2010 -0800 @@ -515,7 +515,6 @@ #define ERR_MNT_NOROOT gettext("get_mntinfo()[00:13:23] <e^ipi> oh god, is it going to be dumping patches nowL[00:13:25] <CIA-68> device to install from") @@ -718,13 +717,10 @@ #define MSG_DOREMOVE_INTERRUPTED gettext("## interrupted: package <%s> not installed") #define MSG_DOREMOVE_INTERRUPTED_B4_Z gettext("## interrupted: package <%s> not removed") #define MSG_DRYRUN_DONE gettext("Dryrun complete.") -#define MSG_EXE_INSTALL_SCRIPT gettext("## Executing INSTALL script provided by package") -#define MSG_FAIL gettext("\n## Pre-SVR4 package reports failed installation.") #define MSG_HRDLI[00:13:34] <Meths> +q ?[00:13:42] *** ehcah has left #illumos[00:13:45] <nrubsig> nachox_: on SPARC I currently get 8999528 bytes. A version with libshell/libast/etc. dynamically linked is below that[00:14:00] <CIA-68> %d package pathnames are already properly installed.") @@ -737,7 +733,6 @@ #define MSG_LOG_ERROR gettext("ERROR") #define MSG_LOG_WARNING gettext("WARNING") #define MSG_LOG_DEBUG gettext("DEBUG") -#define MSG_MAIL gettext("An attempt to install the <%s> pre-SVR4 package on <%s> completed with exit status <%d>.") #define MSG_MANMOUNT gettext("Assuming mounts have been provided.") #define MSG_MORETODO gettext("\nThere are %d more packages to be removed.") #defin[00:14:06] <nrubsig> e^ipi: You asked for CIA help...[00:14:19] <e^ipi> i did no such thing[00:14:28] <nrubsig> e^ipi: they'll to a complete job, including gas and burning corpses[00:15:00] <CIA-68> gettext("Removals of <%s> has been suspended.") #define MSG_UGID gettext("%s <installed with setuid/setgid bits reset>") | usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/libinst/Makefile --- a/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/libinst/Makefile Mon Nov 08 21:52:02 2010 -0800 +++ b/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/libinst/Makefile Tue Nov 09 10:20:47 2010 -0800 @@ -30,7 +30,7 @@ finalck.o findscripts.o fixpath.o flex_dev.o \ isreloc.o lockinst.o mntinfo.o nblk.o \ ocfile.o pathdup.o pkgdbmerg.o procmap.o \ - pkgobj[00:15:08] <FrostCS> heh[00:16:00] <CIA-68> ((info.status == PI_INSTALLED) || - (info.status == PI_PRESVR4)) + if (info.status == PI_INSTALLED) pkgokay++; } } while (++i < nlist); | usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/libinst/psvr4ck.c --- a/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/libinst/psvr4ck.c Mon Nov 08 21:52:02 2010 -0800 +++ /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 @@ -1,417 +0,0 @@ -/* - * CDDL HEADER START - * - * The contents of this file are subject to the terms of the - * Common Development and Distribution License (the "Lice[00:16:05] <nrubsig> nachox_: I wrote http://svn.genunix.org/repos/on/branches/ksh93/gisburn/scripts/tests/sun_solaris_command_substitution.sh to test for the bugs. See "test6" ...[00:16:15] <nrubsig> CIA-68: SATAN![00:19:19] <nachox_> nrubsig, and that solaris_command_substitution script is part of aix7 too? :)[00:19:59] <nrubsig> nachox_: they don't ship it.[00:20:06] <nrubsig> AFAIK[00:20:38] <nrubsig> I'm just stunned about having the bug reports[00:21:38] *** stallion has quit IRC[00:23:48] <nrubsig> Grumpf... Illumos "od" seems to be vulnerable to SIGFPE[00:26:32] *** lblume has quit IRC[00:26:41] <nachox_> you mean that it crashes when it receives a SIGFPE signal?[00:28:09] <nrubsig> nachox_: No, I mean it goes away if a ramdom file printed as floating-point values has special bits set[00:28:45] <nrubsig> nachox_: I just added it to my dump of things I need to do for Illumos.[00:28:58] <nrubsig> This is item #402[00:29:33] <nachox_> ouch[00:30:09] *** eXeC001er has quit IRC[00:30:28] <nachox_> back in a bit[00:30:33] *** nachox_ has quit IRC[00:33:19] <nrubsig> HURRAY: We pass http://svn.genunix.org/repos/on/branches/ksh93/gisburn/scripts/tests/unfixed_tests/sun_solaris_script_l10n.sh[00:34:38] *** dnm has quit IRC[00:37:21] *** postwait has quit IRC[00:38:08] *** spked has quit IRC[00:44:58] *** pjfloyd has quit IRC[00:46:47] <nrubsig> gdamore: grep -r is completed.[00:47:48] * nrubsig leaves IRC for now... need some rest.[00:48:01] *** nrubsig has quit IRC[00:49:08] <alanc> lewellyn clearly needs to fix his CIA feeding script to not pass through the code changes[00:55:17] *** __schily_ is now known as schily_[00:57:28] *** dnm has joined #illumos[01:06:22] *** joffe has joined #illumos[01:11:42] *** taemun has quit IRC[01:12:37] *** nachox has joined #illumos[01:15:05] *** gber has quit IRC[01:17:52] *** lyarick has joined #illumos[01:23:16] *** ganbold has joined #illumos[01:24:54] *** Tempt has joined #illumos[01:25:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tempt[01:29:15] *** taemun has joined #illumos[01:39:26] <lewellyn> alanc: hm?[01:39:27] *** samuelyounge has quit IRC[01:39:28] * lewellyn scrolls up[01:39:48] <lewellyn> heh. guess i need to fix the irc reporter bot thinger.[01:44:15] *** samuelyounge has joined #illumos[01:44:19] * lewellyn wonders why it's showing the diff since he only told it to list the log. *sigh*[01:46:07] *** glagasse has quit IRC[01:49:34] *** jkimball4 has quit IRC[01:49:56] *** jkimball4 has joined #illumos[01:51:15] *** pasik has quit IRC[01:51:47] <lewellyn> oh well, it's saner for the moment. i'll figure out the XPath to exclude the diff later. i find it annoying that "log" includes "diff" for irc output.[01:53:20] *** palowoda has joined #illumos[01:57:37] *** jamesd_laptop has joined #illumos[02:01:09] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC[02:03:02] <lewellyn> i guess i'll see what happens the next time someone commits something[02:05:32] *** Bleubear_ has joined #illumos[02:08:49] *** Bleubeard has quit IRC[02:10:53] *** piwi has joined #illumos[02:15:33] <lewellyn> gah. how the hell do i actually file an issue on illumos.org? :P[02:16:02] <bdha> I configured the GitHub bot to log in and spit out commits.[02:16:04] <bdha> Is it not doing so?[02:16:13] <bdha> (GitHub commits lag by ~1m)[02:16:29] <lewellyn> bdha: i've not seen anything since CIA decided to include that patch earlier.[02:16:38] <lewellyn> what's the github bot called?[02:17:41] <bdha> Something random I don't remember. It was more than a month ago.[02:17:51] * bdha looks.[02:20:03] <lewellyn> well, "bdha" looks awfully random... are you sure you're not the bot in question? ;)[02:23:13] <bdha> Initials.[02:25:22] * lewellyn watches the funny miss[02:25:53] <lewellyn> anyhow, router belch. that was distressing! i thought i was a goner and would have to watch irssi reconnect![02:29:55] *** jamesd__ has joined #illumos[02:30:24] *** jamesd_laptop has quit IRC[02:39:45] *** Stellar has quit IRC[02:51:45] *** Gervystar has quit IRC[02:53:19] *** hecsa has quit IRC[02:53:22] *** Gervystar has joined #illumos[02:56:16] *** |gnite has joined #illumos[02:59:21] *** boyd has quit IRC[02:59:29] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[02:59:49] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[03:01:57] *** Gervystar has joined #illumos[03:02:44] *** |gnite has quit IRC[03:02:56] *** piwi has quit IRC[03:02:57] *** Gervystar has quit IRC[03:03:59] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[03:04:18] *** boyd has quit IRC[03:04:18] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[03:07:37] *** piwi has joined #illumos[03:09:32] *** gwr_ has joined #illumos[03:12:56] *** gwr has quit IRC[03:17:18] *** jamesd2 has joined #illumos[03:18:34] *** jamesd_laptop has joined #illumos[03:19:27] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC[03:21:44] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[03:22:16] *** jgrafton has quit IRC[03:23:43] *** stallion has joined #illumos[03:23:59] *** rnewman has quit IRC[03:24:17] *** postwait has joined #illumos[03:27:53] *** piwi has quit IRC[03:29:03] *** boyd has quit IRC[03:30:14] *** boyd has joined #illumos[03:30:57] *** nachox has quit IRC[03:32:52] *** movement has quit IRC[03:33:49] *** movement has joined #illumos[03:43:26] *** jamesd_laptop has quit IRC[04:08:39] *** boyd has quit IRC[04:09:00] *** boyd has joined #illumos[04:23:15] *** |needle has joined #illumos[04:27:43] *** POloser has joined #illumos[04:50:57] *** lyarick has quit IRC[05:05:13] *** |needle has quit IRC[05:13:17] *** Jondice has quit IRC[05:19:52] *** Jondice has joined #illumos[05:26:42] *** postwait has quit IRC[05:30:35] *** stallion has quit IRC[05:36:34] *** samuelyounge has quit IRC[05:37:12] *** samuelyounge has joined #illumos[06:02:32] *** ruse39 has quit IRC[06:13:30] *** jamesog_ has joined #illumos[06:13:39] *** crsd_ has joined #illumos[06:13:48] *** gwr_ has quit IRC[06:15:42] *** gwr has joined #illumos[06:15:56] *** TBFOOL has joined #illumos[06:16:13] *** Red_Devi1 has joined #illumos[06:16:20] *** Tempt_ has joined #illumos[06:16:24] *** oninoshiko1 has joined #illumos[06:16:33] *** sommerfeld_work has joined #illumos[06:17:15] *** enderst_ has joined #illumos[06:17:21] *** ChrisL__ has joined #illumos[06:17:33] *** crsd has quit IRC[06:17:36] *** zynox has quit IRC[06:17:36] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC[06:17:37] *** Cobi has quit IRC[06:17:38] *** freetown2 has quit IRC[06:17:39] *** TBCOOL has quit IRC[06:17:39] *** Tempt has quit IRC[06:17:39] *** oninoshiko has quit IRC[06:17:39] *** ChrisL_ has quit IRC[06:17:40] *** Red_Devil has quit IRC[06:17:41] *** enderst has quit IRC[06:17:41] *** jamesog has quit IRC[06:17:41] *** joshua_ has quit IRC[06:18:02] *** freetown2 has joined #illumos[06:18:18] *** Cobi_ has joined #illumos[06:18:59] *** Edgeman has quit IRC[06:19:46] *** Edgeman has joined #illumos[06:20:20] *** zynox has joined #illumos[06:28:38] *** RoyK has quit IRC[06:29:04] *** MJBrune has joined #illumos[06:29:58] <MJBrune> so this is the new open solaris basically?[06:31:45] <taemun> this is the new ON[06:31:51] <taemun> #openindiana is the new opensolaris[06:32:00] *** kart_ has quit IRC[06:32:50] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[06:33:05] <MJBrune> ON?[06:33:56] *** ruse39 has joined #illumos[06:35:31] <lewellyn> smrt: explain ON[06:35:31] <smrt> The OS and Networking consolidation - contains the userland and kernel components of OpenSolaris. Source for the current release at http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate. See also http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/ and http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/devref_toc/[06:37:29] *** enderst_ is now known as enderst[06:37:36] *** boyd has quit IRC[06:38:32] *** boyd has joined #illumos[06:44:40] <bradend> Hi smrt![06:45:43] <jkimball4> i know this has been asked a billion times[06:45:59] <jkimball4> but why isn't inkscape not available for us?[06:46:36] <McBofh> jkimball4: I thought I saw that somebody had packaged it up[06:46:40] <Triskelios> jkimball4: I've used inkscape on osol before[06:46:41] <McBofh> but I can't recall who[06:46:45] <jkimball4> hmm[06:46:52] <jkimball4> way back someone said it had some wierdness[06:47:05] <jkimball4> Triskelios: got some packages around? :)[06:47:25] <Triskelios> just use an old build of SFEinkscape[06:48:07] <Triskelios> there's C++ horribleness in the newer versions...[06:48:27] <freetown2> oh, the joys of gcc...[06:48:45] <jkimball4> or c++[06:49:26] *** ChrisL__ has quit IRC[06:49:38] * McBofh about to embark on building gcc4.5.x against snv_134[06:49:39] <McBofh> sigh[06:51:07] <jbk> hope you have plenty of alcohol handy :)[06:51:11] <Triskelios> McBofh: suggest looking at experimental/SFEgcc-4.5.0.spec[06:51:24] <McBofh> ooh nice, thankyou[06:53:23] <Triskelios> heh, or 4.5.1 now[06:53:36] <Triskelios> you can thank tomww :)[06:53:39] *** kart__ has joined #illumos[06:53:40] *** kart_ has quit IRC[06:59:25] *** steleman has quit IRC[07:01:12] <gdamore> Triskelios: http://mexico.purplecow.org/gdamore/webrev/nowsreg/[07:01:32] <gdamore> (and anyone else who would like to see illumos lose another dependency and is willing to review the code. :-)[07:01:48] *** Tempt_ has quit IRC[07:01:55] *** Tempt has joined #illumos[07:01:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tempt[07:03:04] <lewellyn> gdamore: speaking of code, you saw that i finally beat hgcia into submission?[07:03:04] *** Zauberpony has joined #illumos[07:04:37] *** Zauberpo1y has quit IRC[07:04:54] <McBofh> gdamore: looks good to me[07:05:30] *** boyd has quit IRC[07:05:33] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[07:05:53] <jbk> gdamore: the old svs3 pkg stuff?[07:05:54] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[07:05:58] <Triskelios> gdamore: looks fine, I saw the same changes in the previous cleanup webrev for svr4pkg[07:06:10] <Triskelios> jbk: no, prodreg/wsreg support[07:06:15] <jbk> oh[07:06:29] <jbk> can anyone actually tell me what the hell the point of prodreg was?[07:06:41] <lewellyn> i've never been sure.[07:06:49] <jbk> the first time i saw it it was like, uhh so there's some other packaging mechanism?!?[07:06:54] <Triskelios> to generate these warnings: http://mexico.purplecow.org/gdamore/webrev/nowsreg/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h.udiff.html[07:06:57] <jbk> i could never quite figure out what it was for[07:07:30] <Triskelios> actually it was handy for mass-uninstalling staroffice at one point[07:08:08] <Triskelios> something that's annoying to do in SVR4[07:09:54] <lewellyn> what was cfent for? i don't see anything else about it aside from check.c[07:10:06] *** enderst has quit IRC[07:10:31] <lewellyn> just wondering if it was a convenient target while poking there, or if it's somehow interrelated.[07:11:54] <Triskelios> I doubt we have the history for it[07:17:47] <gdamore> yeah, prodreg was useful for dealing with lack of decent dependency management in svr4 toolset.[07:18:07] <gdamore> webstart in general also provided an "installshield" like interface...[07:18:14] <gdamore> not sure if many people ever used it.[07:19:06] <jbk> probably not[07:19:14] <jbk> i just remember seeing it on the solaris install cds[07:19:29] <jbk> i just figured it was yet another naming exercise for something :)[07:21:42] *** boyd has quit IRC[07:23:03] *** boyd has joined #illumos[07:23:59] <jbk> packaging was amusing[07:24:01] <jbk> like[07:24:08] <jbk> the packaging guide[07:24:15] <jbk> not some internal document[07:24:26] <jbk> but the actual guide on docs.sun.com reference sun-internal utilities[07:25:01] <jbk> 'why the hell are you documenting something in documentation aimed at customers/ISVs that they do not have access to?'[07:26:24] *** joffe has quit IRC[07:26:57] <jbk> i ran into that one when i started learning packaging to help simplify stuff at one of my old jobs[07:31:28] *** enderst has joined #illumos[07:38:09] *** bayoda1 has joined #illumos[07:53:03] *** hajma has quit IRC[08:01:17] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[08:02:55] *** m2acis has joined #illumos[08:21:04] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[08:21:33] *** boyd has quit IRC[08:21:34] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[08:26:19] *** bayoda1 has left #illumos[08:28:56] *** davenz has joined #illumos[08:30:02] *** kart_ has joined #illumos[08:32:34] *** joshua___ has joined #illumos[08:32:45] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[08:33:12] *** kart__ has quit IRC[08:34:11] *** joshua___ is now known as joshua_[08:36:35] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[08:37:19] *** boyd has quit IRC[08:37:19] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[08:48:41] *** trbs has quit IRC[08:56:04] *** schily__ has joined #illumos[08:57:45] *** |AbsyntH| has joined #illumos[08:59:03] *** schily_ has quit IRC[09:04:19] *** joffe has joined #illumos[09:06:56] *** joffe has joined #illumos[09:08:15] *** biant92 has joined #illumos[09:10:43] *** joffe has quit IRC[09:11:08] *** joffe has joined #illumos[09:11:27] <samuelyounge> Where is MadWizard with his daily coffee announcement?[09:11:42] <joffe> coffee[09:13:06] *** lblume has joined #illumos[09:14:15] *** pasik has joined #illumos[09:20:33] <lewellyn> lblume: tea?[09:21:43] <lblume> lewellyn: yes, definitely.[09:21:57] <lblume> 绿茶[09:22:19] <lewellyn> ?? to you too :)[09:23:40] <lblume> lewellyn: Gosh, you are still dabbling with non-Unicode devices?[09:24:02] <lewellyn> today i am.[09:24:19] *** sancho has joined #illumos[09:24:29] <lewellyn> btw, i think i know how to send/recieve unicode on my phone now. when i reformat it this weekend, i'll try it. then i get to try to get a pinyin ime working! :D[09:25:23] <lblume> Go go pinyin![09:29:09] <samuelyounge> Has anyone played around with improving the responsivness of the Gnome GUI, maybe toying with priority or nicer?[09:30:40] <lblume> There's already the X IA extension that does that[09:31:19] <lblume> Beside, I don't find gnome unresponsive on less than 5 year old system?[09:32:07] <samuelyounge> Does not seem to work well, when ever I have high HD IO, the GUI seems to have too low of a priority.[09:33:05] <lewellyn> that's not gnome's fault[09:33:11] <lewellyn> you'll see the same without X running[09:33:44] <samuelyounge> What would you say the cause is? I am guessing zfs[09:34:45] * lewellyn mumbles indistinctly[09:34:54] <samuelyounge> lol[09:35:00] <lewellyn> the cause is, basically, the problems of trying to make a general purpose operating system[09:35:17] <lewellyn> you can't excel at both desktop and server tasks with the same tuning.[09:35:35] <lblume> samuelyounge: Ah yes, that is an old bug[09:35:42] <lewellyn> as both become more intensive, the disparity will continue to grow[09:35:59] * lewellyn is trying hard to avoid the usual debate which would be going on right now ;)[09:36:08] <lewellyn> btw, it's worse if you're using cmdk...[09:36:15] <lblume> There have been some workarounds floating by, but which were not very effective in my case.[09:37:14] <lblume> lewellyn: I don't think that's really a tuning issue, more like a bad interaction between the ICH driver and zfs[09:37:15] <samuelyounge> Right, I hear you. I think console user input should always be top priority no matter if the system is a server or workstation. Nothing enrages an admin more than not being able to do anything at the console because of unresponsiveness.[09:37:16] <lewellyn> the one i saw for nvidia sata stopped working at like 118 or so. the bug hasn't been updated though :([09:37:35] <lewellyn> lblume: cmdk exacerbates it. that much i'm 110% sure of.[09:37:54] <lblume> I could never try it with cmdk, sadly.[09:37:56] <lewellyn> samuelyounge: nothing enrages the people who write the checks more than when their stuff is unresponsive.[09:38:11] <samuelyounge> Good point.[09:38:17] <lewellyn> there is no easy answer[09:39:00] <lewellyn> ideally, someone with the skill (and the balls) will track it down, make it a tunable, and distros can figure out which way to flip the switch.[09:39:05] <lblume> lewellyn: But my Asus P5Q desktop and my Aspire One netbook both have an ICH chipset, and yet only the Asus was hit by that.[09:40:02] <lewellyn> lblume: yeah. i have a workstation that's ICH and uses cmdk and god it sucks when firefox crashes. even with savecore turned off, the sudden influx out of swap sucks.[09:40:19] <samuelyounge> How about having the system adjust priority dynamically, if the console is idle then maximize server operations, if the console is active maximize console user responsiveness?[09:40:23] <lewellyn> "oh hi! we suddenly have 4 gigs of ram free! let's swap in!"[09:40:52] <lewellyn> samuelyounge: even microsoft can't get that to work properly. which is why they have toggles to tune it, even. ;)[09:41:01] <lewellyn> you at a windows box?[09:41:08] <samuelyounge> Mac[09:41:33] <lewellyn> and their solution is to have two totally different OSes ;)[09:42:01] <samuelyounge> I remember NT3.51 and earlier has this issue serverly. Windows does a much better job of it now.[09:42:06] <lblume> Sun said 12 years ago that was not needed anymore[09:42:39] *** mikw has joined #illumos[09:42:43] <lblume> samuelyounge: Solaris also does. That particular issue only impacts a very limited kind of chipset[09:47:19] <nettezzaumana> moin[09:47:26] *** gber has joined #illumos[09:47:52] *** biant92 has left #illumos[09:57:27] <lewellyn> lblume: not quite.[09:57:51] <lewellyn> and we've discussed it before. without a wide range of hardware, it'll be hard to find out exactly what's up.[09:58:38] <lblume> Without having an actual developer workstation being hit by the issue :-)[09:59:32] *** davenz has quit IRC[10:04:03] *** Tenzer|off is now known as Tenzer|work[10:09:13] *** sancho has quit IRC[10:09:49] *** dmarker has quit IRC[10:12:49] *** sancho has joined #illumos[10:13:16] <lblume> where can I find the lsiutil tool?[10:15:16] <madwizard> lewellyn: Wow[10:15:18] <madwizard> Coffee[10:15:32] <lewellyn> madwizard: sorry. they have a monthly fee[10:15:36] <lewellyn> lblume: from lsi? ;)[10:15:51] <lblume> lewellyn: That'd be too obvious.[10:15:59] <lewellyn> smrt: search lsiutil[10:16:06] <lewellyn> 01:19 -smrt(saloonkeep@greenviolet/bot/smrt)- Hrm. I have no factlets related to lsiutil... Please try a different search term.[10:16:09] <lewellyn> bah[10:16:23] <lblume> smrt: You disappoint me.[10:16:26] <madwizard> lewellyn: I was referring to your illumos-pl show u[10:16:27] <madwizard> :)[10:17:05] <lewellyn> scroll back about 10 hours. you'll see why i was concerned :)[10:17:13] <lewellyn> (in here)[10:22:42] *** sancho has quit IRC[10:26:22] *** bayoda1 has joined #illumos[10:27:24] <lewellyn> madwizard: was the polish understandable, i hope? :)[10:31:35] <estibi> lewellyn: not really ;)[10:31:59] <lewellyn> oh well :)[10:33:05] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[10:34:19] *** boyd has quit IRC[10:34:19] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[10:35:14] <lblume> Not enough vodka![10:35:59] <madwizard> :P[10:38:49] *** boyd has quit IRC[10:39:36] *** boyd has joined #illumos[10:43:57] *** dmarker has joined #illumos[10:47:37] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[10:48:43] *** boyd has quit IRC[10:48:43] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[10:49:26] *** hajma has joined #illumos[10:51:49] *** bayoda1 has left #illumos[10:53:07] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[10:53:13] *** boyd has quit IRC[10:53:13] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[10:54:05] *** hnhn has joined #illumos[10:55:28] *** Aram has joined #illumos[10:59:54] *** ganbold has quit IRC[11:01:04] <madwizard> richlowe: What do you think about that: https://www.illumos.org/issues/391[11:01:38] *** ruse39 has quit IRC[11:01:50] *** ruse39 has joined #illumos[11:02:04] *** ganbold has joined #illumos[11:02:13] *** boyd has quit IRC[11:02:46] *** ruse39 has quit IRC[11:03:07] *** boyd has joined #illumos[11:07:37] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[11:07:37] *** boyd has quit IRC[11:07:41] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[11:10:21] *** ganbold has quit IRC[11:11:46] *** ruse39 has joined #illumos[11:12:23] *** ruse39__ has joined #illumos[11:13:03] *** ruse39__ is now known as ruse39[11:14:04] *** ganbold has joined #illumos[11:20:08] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[11:21:07] *** boyd has quit IRC[11:21:07] *** boyd_ is now known as 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#illumos[14:29:44] *** jamesd2 has joined #illumos[14:36:52] *** postwait has joined #illumos[14:38:19] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[14:42:26] *** xapiens has quit IRC[14:50:08] *** |AbsyntH| has joined #illumos[14:55:20] *** axscode has joined #illumos[14:55:25] *** axscode has left #illumos[14:58:06] *** POloser has left #illumos[14:58:34] *** _ams_ has joined #illumos[15:02:55] *** anilg has joined #illumos[15:04:42] *** carlomagno has quit IRC[15:05:35] *** carlomagno has joined #illumos[15:07:39] *** gber_ is now known as gber[15:08:08] *** samuelyounge has quit IRC[15:11:15] *** anilg has quit IRC[15:11:18] *** cuguardo has quit IRC[15:12:16] *** joffe has quit IRC[15:13:07] *** Cobi has quit IRC[15:13:41] *** anilg has joined #illumos[15:17:25] *** stallion_ has quit IRC[15:17:30] *** anilg has quit IRC[15:21:13] *** hnhn has quit IRC[15:21:51] *** joffe has joined #illumos[15:21:52] *** Cobi has joined #illumos[15:32:32] *** xapiens has joined #illumos[15:33:57] *** lattera has joined #illumos[15:40:52] *** hnhn has joined #illumos[15:41:54] *** gebi has joined #illumos[15:42:41] *** Protux has joined #illumos[15:43:34] *** axisys has quit IRC[15:46:47] *** xapiens has quit IRC[15:47:15] *** estibi has quit IRC[15:47:52] *** Protux has quit IRC[15:49:35] *** xapiens has joined #illumos[15:51:20] *** lblume has quit IRC[15:56:18] *** axisys has joined #illumos[16:01:23] *** estibi has joined #illumos[16:02:44] *** robinbowes has quit IRC[16:08:05] *** sancho has quit IRC[16:08:54] *** jamesd_laptop has joined #illumos[16:10:54] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[16:12:04] *** hsp has joined #illumos[16:13:55] *** dnm has quit IRC[16:15:17] *** spked has joined #illumos[16:28:39] *** stallion has joined #illumos[16:29:44] *** RoyK has quit IRC[16:34:17] *** nachox has joined #illumos[16:37:47] <gdamore> good morning all.[16:38:20] <jbk> hello[16:38:23] <estibi> afternoon[16:42:36] *** ravenslay3r has joined #illumos[16:44:19] *** Protux has joined #illumos[16:45:58] *** Protux has quit IRC[16:49:01] *** Protux has joined #illumos[16:51:03] <gber> what is the difference between cmd and tools category in the bugtracker?[16:51:33] <gber> or in which category should ksh bugs be filed?[16:51:52] <estibi> tools are the ON build tools like nightly, bldenv..[16:52:07] <sommerfeld_work> if it follows the distinction solaris uses: tools are things specific to the build (usr/src/tools); cmd is stuff that gets delivered. so cmd[16:52:16] <gber> ok, thanks[16:53:00] <gdamore> cmd is the right category....[16:53:07] <gdamore> don't worry too much if you guess wrong....[16:53:14] <gdamore> we're not using the category for much right now.[16:53:52] <gber> I'd directly assign to Roland but he doesn't seem to be registered there[16:54:17] <jbk> man this file format is archaic...[16:54:22] <jbk> somewhat amusing[16:54:32] <jbk> (segy -- used for seismic data)[16:55:32] <jbk> they updated it in 2002 to allow ASCII and IEEE floating point values :)[16:55:52] <jbk> but still support IBM floating point and EBCDIC[16:56:03] *** sommerfeld_work has quit IRC[16:56:03] *** dnm has joined #illumos[16:56:49] *** sommerfeld has joined #illumos[16:57:05] <alanc> jbk: so around 2050 they'll add UTF-8 support?[16:57:39] <sommerfeld> ick. FP format conversion is messy[16:59:37] <jbk> alanc: possibly :)[16:59:59] <jbk> really, if i had the contacts[17:00:08] <jbk> what the oil and gas industry pays for software is obscene[17:00:15] <sommerfeld> (in a past job I worked on an RPC system which attempted to use the native data representation of the sender.[17:00:19] <jbk> a lot of it you could charge half of what the big players charge[17:00:26] <jbk> and make enough to retire on in a few years[17:00:49] <jbk> like tens of thousands of dollars for effectively a database schema + _crappy_ gui[17:00:51] <sommerfeld> no doubt given the rest of what oil production costs, it's roundoff error[17:00:54] <gwr> sommerfeld: dce-rpc?[17:00:56] <jbk> no complicated math[17:00:57] <sommerfeld> yes[17:01:06] <jbk> nothing technical[17:01:18] <gwr> you aware of follow-on work on dce-rpc?[17:01:20] <jbk> just a schema[17:01:21] <alanc> but aren't they paying those big bucks so that they can get support for it for the next 30 years without having to replace their hardware or software?[17:01:32] <sommerfeld> gwr: blissfully ignorant.[17:01:42] <gwr> :)[17:01:58] <gwr> It's getting new life thanks to the need for MS-compatible RPC in CIFS servers...[17:02:20] <gwr> (DCE-RPC is _almost_ MS-RPC, but not quite:)[17:02:44] <gwr> Some people are working on the "not quite" part.[17:02:46] *** crsd has quit IRC[17:03:18] <gwr> You know, catching up with what MS did with their "embrace and extend" engineering approach:)[17:03:34] <gwr> (a.k.a. subvert and make incompatible:)[17:04:15] <gwr> Actually, a lot of their improvements were really good.[17:04:49] <gwr> Just wish they had been able to work with the OSF instead of leaving the OSF code behind...[17:05:42] *** robinbowes has joined #illumos[17:06:43] *** jamesd_laptop has quit IRC[17:07:34] *** jamesd2 has joined #illumos[17:07:37] *** gdamore has quit IRC[17:14:59] <ravenslay3r> Ok my NFS4 worked great on b134 but does not under b145. could be some kind of dns/domain/mapping issue. Done alot of reading and testing and can't figure out what changed, or how to fix it.[17:15:54] <ravenslay3r> changes to /etc/default/nfs 'nfsmapid_domain' don't solve the problem and don't persist across reboots in b145,[17:16:01] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #illumos[17:19:01] *** m2acis has quit IRC[17:37:01] <Aram> haha, joerg made a new od(1).[17:45:08] <gwr> "Does not play well with others." :)[17:48:02] <Aram> I could not stop myself from posting my snarky sod(1) remark on the ML :D.[17:48:19] *** samuelyounge has joined #illumos[17:48:24] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[17:52:28] *** trbs has joined #illumos[17:53:45] *** ravenslay3r has left #illumos[18:02:50] *** edp_mobile has joined #illumos[18:06:25] *** gdamore has joined #illumos[18:06:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gdamore[18:07:23] <gdamore> hi *[18:07:53] <Triskelios> morning[18:10:25] *** MJBrune has quit IRC[18:11:03] *** |AbsyntH| has quit IRC[18:11:38] <sommerfeld> gdamore: didn't you replace most of the closed-source crypto bits?[18:11:45] *** glagasse has joined #illumos[18:11:57] <sommerfeld> (I'm wondering what dennis is ranting about)[18:12:33] <alanc> dennis is often disconnected from reality[18:12:55] <gdamore> I'm responding to dennis now. He's full of shit.[18:12:55] <sommerfeld> of course[18:13:06] <sommerfeld> ok. i'll hold fire[18:15:52] <gdamore> I just fired. :-)[18:16:02] <gdamore> geez... I thought Dennis was smarter than that.[18:17:28] <gdamore> the only closed crypto that I know about is certain sparc hardware drivers....[18:17:43] <gdamore> and bits of the gss libraries.... which don't participate with kcf or pkcs11.[18:18:10] <gdamore> oh, there's ike as well, but its not closed for crypto reasons, I think.[18:22:25] *** Protux has quit IRC[18:29:04] *** sancho has joined #illumos[18:31:36] <jbk> it shouldn't be[18:32:00] <jbk> as it shouldn't be doing any encryption on it's own[18:32:08] <jbk> (well it has no reason to)[18:34:03] *** hajma has quit IRC[18:38:41] <lattera> I wonder if oracle will open the source for zfs crypto[18:39:41] <RoyK> I wonder if Jesus will step down and reunite the world...[18:39:53] <FrostCS> I sense the heat from a burning bush.[18:41:40] * RoyK tosses Mjöllnir in FrostCS's direction[18:43:49] <sommerfeld> lattera: zfs crypto is, as I understand it, tightly coupled to the rest of the zfs implementation.[18:43:49] <e^ipi> moving all of zfs to usr/closed wouldn't be that hard[18:43:49] <e^ipi> this is assuming we ever see any source out of oracle again[18:43:49] <e^ipi> which I doubt[18:43:49] <RoyK> sommerfeld: it won't stop Oracle for filing a truckload of patent applications for stuff already in there, and then, it'll take a rather large amount of money to invalidate those[18:43:51] <e^ipi> RoyK: cddl gives patent immunity[18:44:03] <e^ipi> it was kindof the whole point of the license[18:44:04] <RoyK> oh - it does?[18:44:11] <RoyK> I didn't know...[18:44:25] <RoyK> then how did oracle manage to stop Apple implementing zfs?[18:44:47] <Triskelios> lol[18:44:51] <e^ipi> apple dropped ZFS well before oracle had anything to do with it[18:44:53] <lattera> did oracle stop apple or did apple stop on its own accord?[18:44:55] <FrostCS> umm.. wasn't that like years ago?[18:45:04] <FrostCS> apple stopped on it's own[18:45:44] <sommerfeld> FrostCS: i've heard many rumors, all inconsistent with each other.[18:45:45] <RoyK> I read Apple stopped after getting warned by Oracle, and after Oracle sued netapp[18:46:00] <jbk> oracle did not sue netapp[18:46:02] <jbk> sun did[18:46:13] <jbk> in response to netapp sueing sun as i recall[18:46:16] <jbk> (which is common)[18:46:17] <RoyK> ok[18:46:18] <tomww> after being sued by netapp?[18:46:19] <RoyK> ha[18:46:23] <e^ipi> RoyK: i should clarify that CDDL gives patent immunity on the CDDL source. Reimplementing it (eg if they wanted to make a linux version with the same algorithms under GPL) doesn't[18:46:27] <RoyK> right - netapp sued sun[18:47:00] <RoyK> e^ipi: reimplementing that in GPL will probably break CDDL in the first place[18:47:10] <sommerfeld> anyhow, the patent immunity in CDDL is useful as a defense in a lawsuit. it does not however prevent a suit from being filed.[18:47:31] <FrostCS> sommerfeld, I've probably heard the same, but I didn't see any concrete evidence leading to legal disputes, and since they implemented dtrace.. I doubt there was one. Though I guess we will really never know.[18:47:34] <e^ipi> RoyK: no, cleanroom implementation wouldn't, but you'd lose the patent immunity[18:51:07] <RoyK> e^ipi: so if someone manages to build a specialized abstraction layer between zfs (like fuse, but specialized) and linux, it should be pretty clean?[18:51:13] <RoyK> not that it'd be easy, though[18:52:44] <e^ipi> as far as the cddl is concerned you can just drop zfs in to linux. In that case it's a gpl violation (not a cddl violation.) assuming you accept that the GPL allows you to build such a shim without violating it, then you could do that[18:53:07] <e^ipi> nvidia does that (lgpl layer to link to a binary blob), some people think it's a violation[18:53:56] <e^ipi> i tend to agree[18:54:32] <sommerfeld> i tend to think that anyone who objects to mixing gpl and cddl code has too much free time on their hands.[18:54:45] <FrostCS> I tend to feel violated.[18:54:47] <RoyK> so long as GPL doesn't stop you from link to proprietary source, it's no problem[18:55:07] <e^ipi> whether or not it should is a question of "is" vs. "ou ght", and I don't have the energy to spend too much time on that problem[18:55:09] <RoyK> or proprietary libs, that is[18:55:24] <e^ipi> RoyK: the gpl does stop you from linking to proprietary source[18:55:32] <sommerfeld> people's front of judea vs judean people front all over again.[18:55:34] *** heldchen has quit IRC[18:55:39] <e^ipi> just nobody's bothered to sue nvidia over it yet[18:55:50] <FrostCS> If it's the internet, there is bound to be a disagreement about something.[18:55:58] <RoyK> e^ipi: no, it doesn't, it just says if you do, and then, if you distribute the final binary, then you must expose all source[18:56:02] <FrostCS> even if it makes no sense..[18:56:16] <RoyK> e^ipi: but if you don't distribte the binary, well, gpl doesn't cover that[18:56:34] <jbk> and you know what they say about arguing on the internet... :)[18:57:07] <FrostCS> probably cause nvidia would say well then.. no cake for you.. since they are the only ones who actually try and support something other than windows.[18:57:46] <FrostCS> jbk, let me go get my helmet.[18:58:04] <sommerfeld> http://xkcd.com/386/[18:58:06] *** venture37 has joined #illumos[18:58:17] * RoyK takes FrostCS's helmet from jbk and bangs it on FrostCS's head a few times[18:58:48] <RoyK> sommerfeld: good 'un :)[18:59:29] *** Bleubeard has joined #illumos[19:00:31] <steleman> there are binary only drivers from nvidia and ati and they aren't in violation of GPL. you only get a warning about tainting the kernel.[19:00:51] <e^ipi> they claim not to be violations[19:00:59] <e^ipi> this has not been tested in court[19:01:19] <jbk> there's also binary only drivers from emc for powerpath[19:01:23] <jbk> binary only drivers for veritas[19:01:33] <steleman> the only ones who can make the GPL violation claim are the FSF. since they haven't made the claim, there is no GPL violation.[19:01:49] <e^ipi> FSF doesn't own the code in the linux kernel[19:02:02] <sommerfeld> actually, it's the copyright holder, not the license author, who would have standing.[19:02:08] *** libkeise1 has joined #illumos[19:02:09] <e^ipi> linus doesn't require copyright reattribution, so the linux kernel is owned by thousands of people[19:02:24] <e^ipi> any one of whom with a grudge could sue nv or emc[19:02:26] <steleman> ok so then where is the GPL violation?[19:02:37] <steleman> no you can't just sue just because you want to. you need to show that you have standing first.[19:02:50] <e^ipi> actually you can sue anyone for anything you like[19:02:54] <steleman> ok.[19:02:56] *** libkeiser has quit IRC[19:02:59] <e^ipi> how successful that will be is another story[19:03:20] <sommerfeld> steleman: standing is dealt with relatively early, but after filing.[19:03:23] *** nachox has quit IRC[19:03:35] <sommerfeld> s/is/can be/[19:03:39] <e^ipi> anyhow, this is a stupid argument. point being there are potentials for a license violation that haven't been tested[19:04:12] <sommerfeld> but there are always potentials for license violations[19:04:22] <FrostCS> yep, so back on topic.. what was the best shell again?[19:04:25] <FrostCS> just kidding.[19:04:26] <steleman> sommerfeld: yes, at pre-trial motions. my point was that such a suit would never make it past pre-trial motions phase[19:04:48] <steleman> KSH93 FTW!!!!![19:05:15] *** Red_Devi1 has quit IRC[19:05:44] <steleman> they should capitalize the name of the binary because we aren't paying enough attention to it[19:06:44] *** hnhn has quit IRC[19:07:56] *** Red_Devil has joined #illumos[19:08:23] *** Red_Devil is now known as Guest85012[19:09:06] *** Tenzer|work is now known as Tenzer|off[19:09:28] *** n1c0b has joined #illumos[19:09:41] *** held has joined #illumos[19:09:51] *** nachox has joined #illumos[19:18:51] <tomww> 1 from me[19:25:06] *** RoyK has quit IRC[19:26:12] *** ruse39 has quit IRC[19:28:16] *** ruse39 has joined #illumos[19:28:33] *** libkeise1 has quit IRC[19:30:02] *** libkeiser has joined #illumos[19:31:38] *** boyd has quit IRC[19:31:55] *** boyd has joined #illumos[19:49:32] *** pablomh has quit IRC[19:59:38] *** Bleubear_ has joined #illumos[19:59:39] *** hajma has joined #illumos[20:02:15] *** Bleubeard has quit IRC[20:02:41] *** libkeiser has quit IRC[20:04:56] *** taemun has quit IRC[20:05:21] *** taemun has joined #illumos[20:05:30] *** DaQatz has quit IRC[20:06:17] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[20:10:36] *** DaQatz has joined #illumos[20:13:10] *** RoyK has quit IRC[20:13:56] *** RoyK has joined #illumos[20:14:51] *** boyd has quit IRC[20:14:59] *** boyd_ has joined #illumos[20:15:19] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd[20:16:20] *** libkeiser has joined #illumos[20:20:40] *** edp_mobile has quit IRC[20:25:34] *** manofquagga has joined #illumos[20:26:19] <manofquagga> Hello, can someone tell me why this of package never ended in its destination: http://goo.gl/JFXJk[20:26:45] *** n1c0b has quit IRC[20:27:32] *** manofquagga is now known as errorist[20:27:37] *** errorist is now known as dummyy[20:27:42] *** dummyy is now known as gisburn[20:29:18] <Triskelios> gisburn: missing/incorrect docs of some kind, maybe customs[20:29:38] *** libkeiser has quit IRC[20:30:00] *** steleman has left #illumos[20:30:11] *** lattera has quit IRC[20:30:29] <gisburn> Triskelios: guess again[20:30:57] <gisburn> Triskelios: disclaimer: This was _NOT_ my package.[20:32:05] <gisburn> Triskelios: s/quagga/al-quieck-duck-a/[20:33:07] <gisburn> alanc: ping![20:33:32] <Triskelios> "item incorrectly declared as a box of soap, instead of a bomb"[20:34:15] <gisburn> alanc: Is there anywhere a bug report saying that |signbit()|'s header definition clashes with gcc's xaliasing optimisation ?[20:34:45] <gisburn> Triskelios: did you guess that ?[20:36:05] <gisburn> I was a bit stunned that UPS did leave the package information in their database.[20:39:52] *** dreh has joined #illumos[20:40:10] *** _ams_ has quit IRC[20:40:35] * gisburn subscribes schilly@illumos.org to the feed of that package with the comment "that's my package, I want it delivered. The POSIX conformance of the delivery process is broken otherwise."[20:40:37] *** hsp has quit IRC[20:41:43] *** kart_ has quit IRC[20:41:48] <gisburn> Did anyone see steleman today ? I'd like to discuss some C99 alias optimisation issues with him (|signbit()| included)[20:42:22] <Triskelios> he left shortly after you joined[20:42:31] <Triskelios> wonder why :P[20:46:46] *** pjfloyd has joined #illumos[20:47:44] *** gebi has quit IRC[20:49:04] <gisburn> Next on this channel: shodfview.sh[20:49:44] <sommerfeld> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/30/google_open_source_talk/[20:52:07] <gisburn> sommerfeld: That's a bit old, even the theme is as old as OpenSource.[20:52:26] <sommerfeld> i think it's relevant now[20:52:57] <gisburn> sommerfeld: in which context ?[20:53:38] <jbk> heh[20:53:43] <jbk> i thought it was obvious[20:54:28] <jbk> ...perhaps if the answer was archived[20:54:43] <gisburn> jbk: well, it could apply to me, schilly, Oracle or you.[20:55:20] * gisburn waits for jbk screaming "why... why... why ME ?" ...[20:55:43] <jbk> haha[20:56:14] *** dreh has quit IRC[20:56:19] <venture37> so, what colour is the bikeshed going to be?[20:56:33] *** libkeiser has joined #illumos[20:58:15] <gisburn> sommerfeld: in which context ?[20:59:04] *** Tenzer|off is now known as Tenzer[21:00:06] * gisburn is away - WOP (=WifeOnPhone)[21:02:24] <sommerfeld> There is an aphorism in poker that goes, if you look around the table and don't know who the chump is, then it's you[21:02:35] <sommerfeld> maybe that applies here, too :-)[21:03:45] *** libkeiser has quit IRC[21:05:17] *** dreh has joined #illumos[21:12:30] *** libkeiser has joined #illumos[21:17:12] *** libkeiser has quit IRC[21:17:38] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[21:18:13] *** libkeiser has joined #illumos[21:18:44] *** sancho has quit IRC[21:22:00] *** ganbold has quit IRC[21:23:54] *** DaQatz has quit IRC[21:29:54] *** jamesd2 has joined #illumos[21:36:56] *** DaQatz has joined #illumos[21:38:17] <alanc> gisburn: I don't see any bugs like that against signbit in a simple search[21:40:38] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[21:43:26] *** samuelyounge has quit IRC[21:46:29] *** jamesd2 has joined #illumos[21:49:14] *** samuelyounge has joined #illumos[21:54:19] *** Bleubeard has joined #illumos[21:56:21] *** Bleubear_ has quit IRC[21:57:14] <CIA-68> illumos Garrett D'Amore <garrett at nexenta dot com>: 300 svr4pkg dependency on wsreg.h from closed admin consolidation Reviewed by: trisk at nexenta dot com Reviewed by: jason.brian.king at gmail dot com Approved by: gwr at nexenta dot com -- usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h --- a/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h Tue Nov 09 10:20:47 2010 -0800 +++ b/usr/src/cmd/svr4pkg/hdrs/messages.h Wed Nov 10 12:47:49 2010 -0800 @@ -689,7 +689,6 @@ #define HLP_PKGREMOVE_DEPEND gettext("Other[21:57:39] <gdamore> do we really need the full diff?[21:58:29] <gdamore> (its not full... but I would tend to think a link the diffs would be adequate, with just the change comment...)[22:04:08] <alanc> lewellyn was supposed to fix it to drop the diffs[22:05:54] *** Bleubear_ has joined #illumos[22:08:51] *** Bleubeard has quit IRC[22:13:55] <gisburn> gdamore: should I write a bot which works better than CIA and allows queries, too ? Mozilla.org was fed-up with CIA and developed mozbot instead.[22:14:49] * bdha pokes at github.[22:15:04] <gdamore> i wouldn't complain.... but as I said, I think you have bigger fish to fry[22:15:54] * gisburn looks besides his desk... being watched by his little baby monster...[22:15:56] <bdha> meh.[22:16:05] <gisburn> gdamore: agreed.[22:16:06] <bdha> gisburn: Heh, will be there soon myself.[22:16:20] <gisburn> bdha: baby ?[22:16:44] <bdha> Aye.[22:16:53] <bdha> <2 weeks to go.[22:16:55] <gisburn> bdha: boy, gird or DONTKNOW[22:17:01] <bdha> Girl.[22:17:06] <bdha> We don't like surprises. :)[22:17:16] <gisburn> bdha: is the cradle already prepared ?[22:17:35] <bdha> I should actually just give richlowe a shell on this box so he can fix the pushes while I'm unavail.[22:17:42] <bdha> gisburn: Yeah, everything has been done for a few weeks.[22:17:55] <bdha> Last thing to do is install the carseat.[22:18:05] <gisburn> bdha: sleeping bag included, that you can sleep on the balcony,too ?[22:18:10] <bdha> And that's, literally, the last thing on our Freakin' Huge List.[22:18:21] <bdha> 14th floor, no balcony. Seems scary. And cold.[22:18:27] <gdamore> lol[22:19:03] <gisburn> bdha: not scary. Prepare for mood changes. And suprise attacks of the mommy if you handle the baby slighty wrong.[22:19:29] <bdha> gisburn: Yeah, no worries. Other fathers have given me the requisite Talks.[22:20:41] <gdamore> btw, I apologize for sticking my foot in the whole "od" pile of .... you know....[22:21:40] <alanc> of that word e^ipi keeps using on the mailing list?[22:21:57] <gisburn> alanc: worse[22:26:56] <gisburn> Is there anything you want to see in the next vesion of /usr/bin/sh ?[22:28:39] <sommerfeld> I've found procmail (or equivalent) to be helpful in avoiding time wasted responding to uncooperative people.[22:29:12] <samuelyounge> gisburn:are you doing anything with /usr/bin/bash?[22:29:34] <gisburn> bdha: BTW: For later... consider just picking one type of playing bricks and stay with it. We're figured that instead of buying Playmobil, BRIO, DUPLO etc. in a mixture it is better to pick just one. That way the baby has more from one kind.[22:29:58] <gisburn> samuelyounge: for Illumos, yes. I'm sick of the complains of bash4.x in SFWNV[22:30:28] <gisburn> bdha: e.g. we picked DUPLO for example.[22:30:49] <bdha> Wise.[22:30:50] <samuelyounge> It would be nice if the "bashtrap()" call back function worked in bash[22:30:52] <gisburn> bdha: as result we now have enougth to litter our living room with two layers of a complex railroad system[22:31:00] *** Triskelios has quit IRC[22:31:10] <bdha> haha.[22:31:25] <gisburn> bdha: including family house, farm house and construction site.[22:31:38] <gisburn> bdha: and 880 extra bricks[22:31:43] <bdha> That's a lot of bricks.[22:31:55] <gisburn> bdha: no, just 10x the 80 pick package[22:32:34] <gisburn> but my wife hates it a lot because our daughter just plays with it, then after 30mins switches to Gozilla mode and then leaves the disaster area[22:32:53] <bdha> How old is she?[22:32:59] <gisburn> she stepped to often on a DUPLO brick or train track.[22:33:05] <gisburn> bdha: two years[22:33:17] <bdha> Yeah, soon you can do the whole "clean up" thing, hopefully.[22:33:37] <bdha> arite, I need to bill some clients. :)[22:33:37] <bdha> bbl[22:33:54] <gisburn> bdha: If my wife asks her who should do the cleanup our daugher says "roland must do it"[22:35:00] *** estibi has quit IRC[22:35:20] <alanc> smart girl[22:36:06] <gisburn> alanc: I think it's very sad that there is no longer a way and time to let her loose in MPK17. Somehow I hoped we can do that next year but then Oracle took over.[22:36:15] <gisburn> alanc: Stuarts dog would be the first victim.[22:37:24] <gisburn> alanc: then she would likely proceed to investigate each single office in detail.[22:40:13] <alanc> walking through MPK17 is weird now, almost a ghost town[22:40:29] <alanc> just the labs left there now, those are moving over the next couple months[22:40:33] <gisburn> alanc: Are you still there ?[22:41:14] <alanc> in MPK17? No, my office moved to SCA17 in August with the rest of Solaris engineering[22:41:22] <alanc> just go when needed to visit our lab[22:42:04] * gisburn wonders what would happen if he lets Valeria loose in SCA17...[22:43:00] <alanc> she'd probably find a couple offices where I know people have cookies & candy for visitors[22:43:19] <alanc> hopefully not the ones with wine & whisky[22:44:16] <gisburn> alanc: We know that for vodka she just proceed to throw the content of the bottle away, with the comment that the jiuce inside is rotten.[22:44:40] <alanc> well, it is rotten potato juice[22:44:58] <gisburn> that was the attempt to teach her that if it smells like that she should not drink it.[22:45:11] <gisburn> but instead she had her own thoughts about it.[22:45:24] <gisburn> she throws paper money away, too.[22:45:30] <gisburn> and only keeps the coins[22:46:14] <gisburn> we likely lost 50 euro that way. Or Lera is hiding this in her "cave". We don't know.[22:47:32] <alanc> need to teach her about recycling![22:48:21] <gisburn> alanc: She already recycles the 2 euro coins. basically she is the richest person in our home now.[22:49:11] <gisburn> alanc: each money purse is ritually inspected when we come home. Removed will be only the 2 euro coins.[22:50:50] *** xapiens has quit IRC[22:50:52] <sommerfeld> solaris development was split between SCA17 and SCA18[22:51:22] <sommerfeld> (connected via corridors on all 3 floors so it's almost as if it was one building)[22:51:51] *** eXeC001er has quit IRC[22:56:16] <McBofh> gisburn: we've found that telling C that she has to tidy up her toys or they'll disappear into the vacuum cleaner forever seems to be workable[22:56:23] <McBofh> also, timber trainsets ftw[22:57:29] <gisburn> McBofh: we tried that.[22:57:37] <gisburn> McBofh: unbearable screaming is the result.[22:57:44] <McBofh> :([22:58:01] <gwr> bdha: you won't have to worry for a while, but once she becomes mobile, please be careful about leaving small (choke-able) objects around.[22:58:03] <McBofh> we're currently working on removing the dummy, getting our eardrums bashed up in preparation for toilet training[22:58:52] <gisburn> McBofh: Valeria is already toilet-trained[22:58:59] <McBofh> yay![22:59:11] <gisburn> McBofh: interesting ahead of all other kids in that age here in Germany.[22:59:40] <gisburn> McBofh: my mother-in-law did that...[22:59:55] <McBofh> wow[23:00:05] <gisburn> McBofh: don't ask for the methods being used.[23:00:51] <gisburn> McBofh: basically it boils down to the issue that people in the Ukraine are poor, so they don't have diapers.[23:01:00] <McBofh> ah[23:01:55] <gisburn> McBofh: but you must not try it before an age of ~~20 months, otherwise it's hopeless.[23:02:23] *** Stellar has joined #illumos[23:02:53] <gisburn> McBofh: the babies must understand action--->result first, which usually developed with 20months, +/- three months[23:03:22] <gisburn> s/developed/develops/[23:04:01] <gisburn> McBofh: next step is to tell the baby what the toilet is used for (just tell&&show).[23:04:08] <McBofh> yeah, we're at that point[23:04:15] <McBofh> and she's sitting on the loo now, quite happily[23:04:21] <McBofh> just hasn't got timing right[23:04:43] <gisburn> McBofh: the ukrainian method is to have the baby breakfast on the toilet.[23:04:53] <McBofh> ugh[23:05:02] <gisburn> only breakfast, until the "result" is there[23:05:06] <gisburn> erm[23:05:13] <gisburn> _not_ the way you think[23:05:19] *** piwi has joined #illumos[23:05:22] * gisburn tries to squish this in words[23:06:05] <gisburn> basically the babies need to go to the toilet during or shortly after breakfast.[23:06:06] *** carlomagno has quit IRC[23:06:27] <gisburn> basically you use this kind of timing to plant the baby on the baby toilet.[23:06:29] <gisburn> one sec[23:06:39] *** Triskelios has joined #illumos[23:06:51] <gisburn> http://images.esellerpro.com/2149/I/114/smWTP-flush-sounds-potty-a.gif[23:06:53] <gisburn> that one[23:07:10] <gisburn> perferably without sound or other circus[23:07:15] <gwr> Yup. And get them comfortable sitting up there. (Here, have a book!:)[23:07:30] <gisburn> (the imaged one makes sound, which is just distrating)[23:08:39] <gisburn> if this works and has become a ritual the next step in the ukrainian method is to skip the diapers (I've protested at that point... to no avail...)[23:09:03] <gisburn> interestingly thos worked after a day.[23:09:11] <McBofh> hmmm[23:09:13] <gisburn> s/thos/this/[23:09:34] <gisburn> but I'm still unhappy because it is IMO a bit cruel[23:09:45] <gisburn> (the final part)[23:10:10] <McBofh> we've got something like that[23:10:18] <McBofh> hmm www.pottytrainingconcepts.com[23:12:37] <gisburn> McBofh: yes, in Germany they do similar stuff. Typical age here for being toilet trained is around 4-5 years.[23:13:05] <McBofh> I can't wait that long![23:13:11] <gisburn> McBofh: and Valeria is two years old.[23:14:02] <gisburn> McBofh: which somehow makes me think that the whole circus with sounds, flashing lights, dancing puppes and DVD's for babies is more distracting.[23:14:17] <McBofh> yeah[23:14:26] <McBofh> or, to quote Chef from South Park "fuck that shit"[23:14:29] <McBofh> ahem[23:15:12] <gisburn> Valeria for example was afraight of the toilet seat because it made sounds when sitting on it.[23:15:40] <McBofh> gisburn: 19week scan of #2 for us today[23:16:21] <gisburn> McBofh: everything OK so far ?[23:16:53] <McBofh> it's been difficult[23:17:09] <McBofh> threatened miscarriage x2 in the first trimester[23:17:22] <e^ipi> evidently having the kid run around bottomless is both messy & disgusting, and effective for potty training[23:17:25] <McBofh> and the stress from that, too[23:17:42] <gwr> I have boys, who come more slowly to all of this. But one thing we discovered quite by accident:[23:18:02] <gwr> They're not really aware of what goes on "down there" while they wear diapers.[23:18:34] <McBofh> that's what I've been starting to think too[23:18:35] <gisburn> gwr: exactly. That why I said the babies must be aware of action--->result[23:18:37] <gwr> We (bad parents) let them run naked sometimes in the warm weather, and discovered that they suddenly became much more aware:)[23:18:50] <joffe> bad parents?[23:18:54] <gwr> (boys looking around the yard for things to pee on :)[23:18:55] <joffe> sounds like a learning experience to me[23:18:58] <e^ipi> i don't really see how that makes a bad parent[23:19:27] <gwr> Some neighbors seem to think: oh, those are the people with the naked kids running in the yard...[23:19:58] <gwr> Conclusion: basically, diapers are _too_ good. No feedback.[23:20:02] <e^ipi> but then I don't really think of nudity as something shameful , or for that matter that big of a deal[23:20:06] <joffe> well[23:20:10] <gisburn> gwr: maybe you'll get jailed in the US for child abuse and attempted baby prostitution, but not here in Europe.[23:20:11] <joffe> the neighbors can go and..[23:20:20] <joffe> who cares what other people think[23:20:28] <joffe> lovely stereotyping there gisburn[23:20:33] <gwr> Yea, largely a USA thing. We've never quite fit in with that aspect of the culture here.[23:21:17] <gisburn> joffe: that stereotype was in the AP news feed of March 2010[23:21:23] <gwr> Yeah, it's OK for the TV to show them exploding heads and dismemberment, but not plain old natural s*x.[23:21:59] <gwr> Seems pretty twisted to me, but as I said (not quite fitting in)[23:22:13] <joffe> who watches tv anyway[23:23:03] <gisburn> joffe: like thet case where someone was going to his office and was arrested for looking into someone else's window. Ended-up as child molestor for looking by accident into a window.[23:23:25] <e^ipi> gwr: the "puritans" that colonized this continent weren't called that because they had funny hats[23:24:09] <gwr> yeah. But what about all the emigrants afterward? Makes no sense.[23:24:24] <joffe> wanna switch?[23:24:30] <gwr> It's OK. I live in Massachusetts, where it's still hard to buy booze before noon on a Sunday:)[23:24:46] <e^ipi> gwr: on the other hand you can get gay married[23:24:54] <gwr> :)[23:25:05] <gwr> Yeah, it's a funny place.[23:27:37] <jbk> and i live where 'alcohol, tobacco, and firearms' was taken as a suggestion :) (there's a store on the way to san antonio that sells all 3 :P)[23:28:43] <gisburn> jbk: .50 BMG included ?[23:28:51] *** arek_deepinit has joined #illumos[23:28:55] <gisburn> fully-automatic of course[23:29:17] <gisburn> maybe with timed aurburst ammo[23:29:28] <gisburn> s/aurburst/airburst/[23:29:39] <jbk> while it wouldn't surprise me, i don't know[23:29:51] <gisburn> (just to make sure it's really illegal everywhere else in the world)[23:30:16] <gisburn> If that is _legal_ where you live... what do the cops have ?[23:30:51] <gisburn> If anyone can have a semi or fully atuomatic .50 BMG...[23:31:00] * gisburn *shudders*[23:32:37] <jbk> have you seen what you can rent and shoot out in the desert in az?[23:33:20] <gisburn> jbk: a tank ?[23:33:35] <gisburn> jbk: not the most effective for small crime endevours...[23:35:34] <jbk> i think it was daily show.. someone did a segement on it[23:40:54] <joffe> gisburn you're aware it doesn't matter what's legal or not as to what the cops have[23:41:05] <joffe> criminals, by definition, don't particularly care about gun laws[23:41:15] <joffe> they don't care that murder is forbidden, much less anything else[23:41:54] <gisburn> joffe: .50 BMG is a very large caliber. Very unusual for civillians.[23:42:39] <gisburn> joffe: someone wielding such a thing here in Germany would provoke a large scale police response ASAP[23:43:06] <gisburn> just carrying it around[23:43:19] <joffe> it's not something you 'carry around'[23:43:34] <gisburn> on your back[23:43:40] <joffe> but either way, if a civilian has it.. so what?[23:43:47] <joffe> it's legal in nearly all US states[23:43:48] *** PatrickS_ has quit IRC[23:43:58] <joffe> when do you hear about a legally owned .50 being used for any kind of crime, ever?[23:44:01] <joffe> never, that's when[23:44:09] <gisburn> .50 BMG is _LEGAL_ to carry around in the US ?[23:44:26] <joffe> where is the highest concentration of gun crime in the US? the large cities, chicago, los angeles, baltimore, DC[23:44:34] <joffe> all places where gun laws are as strict or stricter than here in europe[23:44:57] *** bradend has quit IRC[23:45:03] <joffe> it's pretty simple logic[23:45:18] <joffe> but i guess if you're not used to it you're focused on the dead objects rather than the people still[23:45:47] *** estibi has joined #illumos[23:45:59] *** bradend has joined #illumos[23:46:26] *** spked has quit IRC[23:47:00] <e^ipi> joffe: more interesting is the comparisons to canadian cities[23:47:15] <e^ipi> the culture and socioeconomic status being roughly equal[23:47:56] <FrostCS> where I am from we use the .50's for keeping the squirrels off the feeders.[23:48:02] <joffe> as you should[23:48:06] <joffe> darn squirrels[23:50:50] *** axscode has joined #illumos[23:52:37] <gisburn> night[23:52:41] *** gisburn has quit IRC[23:54:34] *** Tenzer is now known as Tenzer|off[23:55:29] <joffe> http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1289396994146[23:55:30] <joffe> :D[23:57:00] *** mikw has quit IRC[23:57:59] *** gebi has joined #illumos[23:58:00] *** gebi has joined #illumos