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[01:43:09] <samuelyounge> Anyone know how illumos determines how much memory it uses for caching?  I am running it with 2GB, which is not fully utilized, but none is being used for caching?
[01:50:10] <tomww> memory free is on solarish OS displayed completely different.
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[01:56:00] <McBofh> samuelyounge: if you want to understand kernel caching for OI, you need to read Solaris Internals 2nd ed
[01:56:25] <samuelyounge> Okay
[01:56:34] <McBofh> it isn't easy to get through, either
[01:56:42] <samuelyounge> I can imagine
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[02:00:00] <e^ipi> samuelyounge: it is using all of it.
[02:00:19] <e^ipi> as it should
[02:00:46] <samuelyounge> That is good.  I wonder why the Gnome performance monitor says it is not using any?
[02:01:07] <McBofh> because that would be full of linuxisms
[02:01:15] <McBofh> which don't apply, especially to the OI kernel
[02:01:20] <Triskelios> samuelyounge: that's about memory available for applications, not cache
[02:01:46] <Triskelios> "free" memory is always used for caching
[02:01:54] <samuelyounge> If you mouse over the display it shows app and cache usage
[02:02:55] <e^ipi> that's because it's wrong
[02:03:05] <e^ipi> GNOME doesn't really understand solaris all that well
[02:03:10] <samuelyounge> :P I can live with that.
[02:03:11] <Triskelios> samuelyounge: not seeing that here
[02:03:29] <Triskelios> samuelyounge: mousing over the usage graph?
[02:04:06] <samuelyounge> Add performance monitor to the top toolbar then change the property of it to show memory usage, then mouse over it.
[02:05:08] <Triskelios> oh, a panel applet? yeah, it's probably broken
[02:05:33] <samuelyounge> Yea, it works great other than not reporting any memory cache usage
[02:06:04] <McBofh> samuelyounge: why is that a problem, though?
[02:06:32] <samuelyounge> Not a problem as long as free memory is being used for caching
[02:08:43] <samuelyounge> Is there a command line monitor that works with caching that we can use verify proper operation of caching?  Something like `top` but shows cache usage?
[02:10:18] <McBofh> samuelyounge: no
[02:11:00] <samuelyounge> McBofh: I see that Solaris Internals 2nd ed. is 1100 pages!  I will get to it after I finish Kuth's first volume on the Art of Programming.
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[02:20:27] <e^ipi> samuelyounge: by 'top' do you mean resource hungry and incorrect ?
[02:20:36] <samuelyounge> lol
[02:22:04] <e^ipi> prstat is less resource hungry and a great deal more correct
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[02:33:44] <samuelyounge> My poor mac-mini has so much going on that it is about pop.  I really need a better machine.  A desktop Cray would work nicely.
[02:35:23] <e^ipi> you just need more ram
[02:35:31] <samuelyounge> I have 4GB
[02:35:33] <e^ipi> CPUs have been fast enough for most stuff for at least 10 years
[02:35:54] <e^ipi> apps are almost never bound by CPU
[02:36:03] <e^ipi> and almost always bound by IO & ram
[02:36:43] <samuelyounge> My internal HD is maxed out and between VMs and development environments I am strapped for all resources.
[02:37:50] <e^ipi> so you're basically just out of HD space
[02:38:01] <e^ipi> you know you can buy 2TB drives for $80 these days
[02:38:23] <samuelyounge> Yea, I have three external 2TB drives
[02:38:38] <CodeWar> cray on the desktop .. pheww wonder what that looks like
[02:39:45] <samuelyounge> I guess I am going to have to off load my VM images to my external drives.  I don't want to though, they run slow enough as it is.
[02:39:48] <e^ipi> CodeWar: like a bunch of atom machines glued together with gigabit
[02:39:57] <e^ipi> they're pretty unimpressive
[02:40:48] <CodeWar> this is for the workstation crowd? glued with gigabit? it provides a shared memory illusion
[02:41:01] <e^ipi> i don't know what crowd it's for
[02:41:22] <e^ipi> like, i can't actually think of a use case for them
[02:42:01] <CodeWar> intel cpus are getting so good on the desktop one doesnt need to pull these tricks to get more performance
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[02:57:47] <njm> any ideas on quietting an in-house v40z? i'd like to water cool it, and perhaps even build a soundproof case for it.
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[03:00:24] <e^ipi> not have an in-house v40z ?
[03:02:02] <e^ipi> replace it with something cheaper, quieter and faster
[03:02:12] <e^ipi> like an i3 something
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[03:09:02] <samuelyounge> Anyone ever seen this message in a VMware VM running illumos?  A virtual CPU has entered the shutdown state.  This would have caused a physical machine to restart. This can be caused by an incorrect configuration of the virtual machine, a bug in the operating system or a problem in the VMware Fusion software. This can also be caused by running an early release of Solaris 10 x64 on an Intel Core 2 or Core i7 processor. Make sure
[03:10:15] <njm> e^ipi: it's inpartable in senses, 16 channels of memory is just so sexy. it'll likely happen eventually though, i've not had it long as it stands to be anyways.
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[03:13:18] <njm> e^ipi: i'd actually like something 1u like a t2000 it's just too expensive.
[03:13:31] <e^ipi> to what end?
[03:13:40] <njm> green paper money.
[03:13:46] <Meths> t1000, t2000s are 2u
[03:13:51] <e^ipi> no, i mean why would you want one
[03:13:59] <e^ipi> T-series are slow as balls
[03:14:11] <e^ipi> and loud
[03:14:22] <e^ipi> in my house is probably the last place I'd want a 1U machine
[03:14:47] <njm> they are novel, to be honest it makes me feel better running software on true hardware... say what what you will, everyone "in-the-know" on irc these days is so anti realism.
[03:14:50] <e^ipi> I don't need to rack them up because i'm not constrained by DC dimension requirements
[03:15:10] <njm> also i'm a latency freak
[03:15:17] <njm> i see true responsiveness on said hardware.
[03:15:23] <njm> right now i'm on a sparc64 in here
[03:15:26] <e^ipi> on a T1000? i seriously doubt that
[03:15:57] <njm> i'm sure you do
[03:16:10] <njm> your name is also e^ipi not njm
[03:16:35] <njm> :-/
[03:19:45] <e^ipi> i just have no interest in old stuff that was competitive for specific purposes that aren't what I use a machine for when it came out but still costs as much as machines 5x as fast
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[03:21:07] <njm> e^ipi: would you rather have a pc or a sparc hanging from your ceiling?
[03:21:18] <e^ipi> why would i hang anything from my ceiling ?
[03:21:31] <e^ipi> toss a $400 whitebox in the corner and call it a day
[03:21:36] <njm> it's novel, as i said.
[03:21:46] <dizko> it felt very nice to finally give up on keeping old gear around
[03:22:50] <e^ipi> dizko: it costs more to run than it's worth
[03:22:54] <dizko> when i left sf i put like 4 u60s, 2 280Rs, an SGI, some other old sparcs, a color next slab, etc on the curb
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[03:23:01] <dizko> put it on craigslist as free stuff
[03:23:03] <dizko> was gone in an hour
[03:23:16] <dizko> yeap, my power bill was like $400/mo and i wasnt even running very much
[03:23:53] <dizko> i got down to a atom330 with 4 drives as my file--server, running osol, and a laptop hooked to a 30" monitor
[03:24:14] <dizko> recently though my desire to play civ5 prompted me to build a real machine, but im careful to put it to sleep whenever its not in use
[03:24:18] <njm> it's novel, it provides smoother transaction without the hickups under load as the hardware is done correctly, it provides better responsiveness/latency
[03:24:32] <njm> trust me i've had this argument and the only winning factor to x86/pc hardware is price
[03:24:36] <njm> as dizko said
[03:24:44] <dizko> latency is such a generic measurment, it totally depends on the application
[03:25:13] <njm> eh.. i'm not talking latency measured in throughput
[03:25:22] <dizko> latency in what
[03:25:22] <njm> i'm more or less interchanging it with responsiveness, hence the slash
[03:25:28] <njm> responsiveness
[03:25:57] <dizko> well, the work i currently do involves extremely low latency tollerance....couting things by the microsecond
[03:26:25] <njm> actually i don't know how it goes recently but things like alpha used to be 10x as precise of a clock as the equiv x86
[03:27:17] <dizko> using the fastest possible x86 chip is much, much lower than anything else we can throw at it
[03:27:22] <e^ipi> the only real advantage to sparc these days are that they can run sparc legacy apps
[03:27:45] <njm> really? i find it strange that even not taking architecutre, ie cisc vs risc into account
[03:28:00] <e^ipi> njm: that's because that war is dead and gone
[03:28:01] <njm> power7 on a frequency scale scale towers over x86
[03:28:03] <e^ipi> x86 won
[03:28:06] <njm> power7 frequents at over 5ghz
[03:28:57] <dizko> not only did x86 win, sadly linux won
[03:29:26] <dizko> so it doesnt always ahve to be about waht the "Best" is
[03:29:38] <njm> linux? that's funny too... netbsd 5.x benchmarks show it to be the only public, mainstream os that outperforms linux
[03:29:50] <njm> as far as forks per second, threading timings, you name it.
[03:30:26] <dizko> im not suggesting linux is the best
[03:30:34] <dizko> just that its become the defacto solution
[03:30:40] <dlg> lucky my production apps arent microbenchmarks
[03:30:59] <e^ipi> dlg: they aren't ?
[03:31:08] <e^ipi> i thought everyone ran benchmarks all the time
[03:31:46] <dizko> speaking of T-series cpus, i worked somewhere that bought a couple t2000s to run an fpu intensive app =)
[03:31:55] <njm> well luckily they don't with solaris yet it's still the most loved os ;)
[03:31:59] <e^ipi> that was really dumb of them
[03:32:01] <dizko> so, back to my original point it really depends on what your app is
[03:32:09] <dizko> e^ipi indeed
[03:32:38] <njm> i'd like to benchmark osol 134 running on this v40z, i had arch linux on it and forked a bunch of sleep processes, it shot up to 20 thousand easily and then slowed down up to 30 thousand and then just started to not be really slow
[03:32:46] <njm> i imagine it is scanning through a task structure
[03:33:00] <njm> idling with thoes processes is still around 0.00 though
[03:33:14] <njm> i'm wondering how osol 134 will be different i havn't tried it yet
[03:33:23] * alanc really doesn't need his machine to sleep faster
[03:33:51] <dizko> just run everything on your gpu
[03:33:53] <njm> nice joke! as i was simply doing a rough test of fork and process creation time
[03:34:03] <njm> dizko: :>
[03:34:14] <njm> :>
[03:35:08] <dizko> i built the new wintendo so i could play civ5, installed cuda accelerated h.264 codec....1080p video takes like 1% of my cpu
[03:35:23] <dizko> at work, testing out a market data feed handler that uses gpu
[03:35:56] <njm> dizko: wicked i was just playing a 10GB 1080p version of avatar on my laptop earlier, it used up about 30% though :o(
[03:35:56] <e^ipi> dizko: HFT ?
[03:36:25] <njm> x264 also
[03:36:27] <dizko> e^ipi ya i work for a large bank/brokerage and support the hft desk for infrastructure stuff
[03:36:33] <e^ipi> cool stuff
[03:36:42] <njm> sounds fun
[03:36:55] <dizko> yea its kinda funny when you start picking apart how to shave off a couple us
[03:37:02] <dizko> arista switches, etc
[03:37:40] <dizko> also, its clear what the cause of hte next financial crash will be =)
[03:37:52] <e^ipi> heh
[03:39:00] <jbk> naah, that's just screwing up stock prices
[03:39:03] <njm> does illumos have intent to place SCLA/brandx or something else to support linux binaries, or does it already?
[03:39:19] <njm> also how difficult would it be to have illumos on the v40z
[03:39:27] <snuff-work> ppl were going to bring back brandx/z..
[03:39:32] <jbk> when cashflow dries up due to all the unrecognized losses at the big banks, that'll be the next crash =]
[03:39:55] <dizko> =)
[03:40:04] <dizko> so long as i keep getting paid in yen, im happy
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[03:40:28] <jbk> of course I can't rag too much
[03:40:46] <njm> dizko: did you clime back in yur hole? :>
[03:40:47] <jbk> i was supporting some autotrading systems at a large bank/brokerage prior to this job as well =]
[03:40:48] <dizko> ii just save all my money and dont worry about whe it comes to an  end
[03:41:19] <dizko> and im happy that im not doing any ops work or anything like that
[03:41:28] <dizko> since everything went linux i dont have interest in being hands on
[03:41:39] <dizko> i might be totally useless in a few years though ;)
[03:41:44] <jbk> yeah, the stuff i dealt with (in the end) was all linux
[03:41:47] <jbk> it was hell
[03:42:02] <jbk> (only partly due to linux)
[03:42:13] <dizko> i dont mind running linux....on my car stereo....or my phone
[03:42:34] <dizko> lol, actually im running it on this vaio p-series
[03:42:55] <dizko> but its either windows or.....this
[03:43:09] <njm> linux's primary use for me is tc, neither bsd (altq is broken) or solaris can do qos down to a fine art.
[03:43:16] <njm> i shouldn't say that
[03:43:28] <njm> a lot of time was spent with crossbow
[03:43:54] <dizko> bbiab
[03:44:10] <njm> later dizko, take care.
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[04:05:04] <rkhshm> i'd like to know what are the procedures for 'integration review' ? I just had a webrev reviewd and accepted. This will be my first commit .. Can anyone advice ?
[04:05:07] <Guest21437> great now i've two sparc64 machines in here under a Guest name.
[04:06:13] <e^ipi> sparc64 is like saying x86-32
[04:06:31] <e^ipi> of course it is, there haven't been otherwise in 20 years
[04:06:48] <e^ipi> you're very unlikely to run across a sun4m or a 286
[04:07:03] <Guest21437> e^ipi: so it is, i'm not even sure what architecture this machine here is it's not mine, Guest55110 is sparcv9
[04:07:24] <alanc> technically, SPARC64 is Fujitsu's trademarked brandname for their 64-bit SPARC CPU's, so most machines people call "SPARC64" are not really
[04:07:35] <e^ipi> true enough
[04:07:37] <alanc> sparcv9 is the name for the 64-bit SPARC ABI
[04:08:17] <e^ipi> the architecture is sun4u , unless they're niagra boxes ... then it's sun4v
[04:08:35] <Guest21437> indeed, both of them are bsd, this one is an ultrasparc IIi i just looked, openbsd bleh.. the other is netbsd.. they're too slow to run solaris :>
[04:08:55] <Guest21437> Guest55110 is a blackbird regular us II u30
[04:09:05] <Guest21437> i don't even know what this machine is, i believe he told me at one point
[04:09:26] <LeftWing> US II/IIi will certainly run Solaris.
[04:10:06] <Guest21437> true i suppose, solaris 7 ?
[04:10:59] <Guest21437> LeftWing: i've had solaris 10 on it, it runs it just doesn't get the most out of a machine such as a u30, solaris on a u30 there is about a 1.5 second delay in opening a man page, netbsd on a u30 it's instant
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[04:13:01] * Guest21437 saves solaris for the v40z :> the the u30 is 512MB 300mhz the v40z is 20gb 4x opteron 2.4ghz and two new 15K rpm fujitsu that are in raid 0 for its primary zone
[04:13:39] <alanc> Ultra 30 can run up through Solaris 10, and even SXCE - Solaris 11/OpenSolaris officially dropped support (though they mostly work, if you have enough RAM, and don't need X)
[04:14:48] <Guest21437> nod i was going to put osol on it though with only the zfs option and 512mB it never happened
[04:15:26] <Guest21437> u30 has 16 dimms although, and will support up to 2gB, i just have not found enough of a need to buy more memory for it :-/
[04:15:54] <gwr> rkhshm: email to gwr, garrett, richlowe; include pointer to webrev, test results, build output (mail_msg file).
[04:16:46] <Guest21437> it's my little baby in a sense :> i've used it as a router and it can handle many of thousands of connections very smoothly compared to consumer routers that die at a couple hundred connections :> and i use it for irc.
[04:17:48] <Guest21437> mint condition u30. free from a friend, the datacenter he was working for didn't require it any longer.
[04:18:22] <alanc> not surprising, few datacenters need 10 year old workstations
[04:18:47] <Guest21437> he has a u60 or u80 he wanted to give me a while ago also, with 4GB and 4x 400mhz, although i wasn't in a position to take it.
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[06:37:31] <samuelyounge> Unified Extensible Firmware Interface, the long awaited successor of age-old BIOS is finally real.  It is shipping on a newer Intel system board.  Not sure what impact this has on hals and kernels.
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[09:41:54] <RoyK> anyone care to take a look at this bug? https://www.illumos.org/issues/396
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[10:37:27] <madwizard> Coffee
[10:37:29] <madwizard> pipul!
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   November 5, 2010  
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