April 16, 2014 
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >
April 16, 2014 [00:02:00] <jessicah> nice :)[00:02:17] <jessicah> js: hmm, i think maybe more in your approach to it[00:02:28] <jessicah> people seemed disappointed you gave up on it, from what i saw[00:03:05] <jessicah> hmm, the war on ARM begins in earnest... new intel-based android tablets hitting the market[00:03:23] <jessicah> samsung galaxy tab 3 among them :o[00:06:13] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:10:22] <AlienSoldier> jessicah until we finally get the holy grail, 6502 chip[00:13:15] <jessicah> 6502?[00:13:41] <AlienSoldier> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502[00:19:27] <jessicah> ah :)[00:23:32] <umccullough> I wouldn't call it so much a "war on ARM", but intel finally realizing what people want/need vs. what they want to shove down their throats[00:23:56] <umccullough> power efficiency is a big deal these days[00:24:22] <umccullough> and even if intel's high-end processors are efficient, they're usually far more than an average desktop user really needs[00:24:32] <umccullough> let alone a mobile device[00:25:33] <umccullough> intel has handily won at the high end of the retail market[00:30:19] <jessicah> :)[00:30:30] *** [JJ]Albert is now known as albertistestingt[00:30:38] *** albertistestingt is now known as [JJ]Albert[00:31:17] *** [JJ]Albert is now known as albertistestingt[00:31:26] *** albertistestingt is now known as [JJ]Albert[00:35:11] <js> jessicah: there were way more complains on signing itself than on the design. actually, only bonefish commented the design at all.[00:35:12] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[00:36:06] <jessicah> it's probably related to the convolution of package signing combined with secure boot[00:36:10] *** scanty_ has quit IRC[00:36:21] <jessicah> the two are fairly independent[00:36:37] <js> jessicah: probably. I only wanted to point out that the design is compatible with SecureBoot, I said nothing more about that in the proposal[00:36:42] <jessicah> i'm assuming what you were trying to do is something similar to how windows binaries are signed[00:37:13] <js> nah, not at all[00:37:23] <jessicah> no?[00:37:25] <js> I wanted to have an easy signature with code that is so small that it's easily auditable[00:37:30] <js> so I only wanted to sign hpkgs[00:37:32] <js> using Ed25519[00:37:42] <js> without all that X.509 etc. crap[00:38:29] <jessicah> hmm, do you have an actual design document?[00:38:48] <jessicah> just something simple to break it all down?[00:39:25] <jessicah> i guess people just don't understand what the ultimate goal was :)[00:39:36] <jessicah> i'm not entirely sure atm either ;)[00:39:38] <js> jessicah: yes I have - that was the initial post[00:39:46] <js> I outlined how I wanted to do things and why[00:39:52] <jessicah> the post had lots of words ;)[00:40:01] <js> it even contained the structs I was going to use[00:40:27] * jessicah goes back to the email[00:40:35] *** Cenbe has quit IRC[00:40:41] <js> the only technical discussions that followed were with bonefish[00:40:59] <js> to which I just didn't answer at some point anymore because I gave up on it altogether to the the amount of opposition to even having packages signed[00:41:47] <jessicah> ah, i see[00:41:56] <jessicah> it got derailed at paragraph 2[00:42:10] <jessicah> "However, if we want to go the SecureBoot route, ..."[00:42:14] *** Cenbe has joined #haiku[00:42:42] <jessicah> so your post became almost entirely about SecureBoot, and not about signed packages[00:43:17] <jessicah> oh heh. "Remember our file system is encrypted"[00:43:48] <jessicah> js: this is why it became not about signed packages[00:44:11] <jessicah> if you can do a proposal that's independent of these two, i think people will be on board[00:44:41] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[00:45:25] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[00:45:31] <umccullough> yes, there were too many security-related features involved in a single discussion, it went horribly wrong[00:45:51] <js> jessicah: it actually is independent and only outlines how it could integrate with secureboot[00:46:03] <umccullough> it doesn't matter, this was a public forum[00:46:09] <umccullough> too many people were involved[00:46:13] <js> the thing is, if you do a crypto design, you need to think of what your use cases and attack vectors are[00:46:19] <js> and create a security model first[00:46:35] <umccullough> but you also can't approach it from a "here's all the problems we have to solve" point of view[00:46:39] <umccullough> that's impossible[00:47:17] <umccullough> anyhow, i've already pointed this out privately, i don't need to rehash it[00:47:27] <jessicah> if it's independent, write a proposal that's independent. add a note that this will integrate with secureboot, and make that an entirely separate proposal[00:48:12] <jessicah> landonf ran into the same problems you did with trying to propose something[00:48:23] <jessicah> and ended up quitting the haiku community instead :([00:48:41] <js> jessicah: well, crypto designs don't work if you don't do a full design and let others them audit early on[00:48:52] <js> if the haiku community is like this, well, then the haiku community will just never get crypto[00:49:13] <umccullough> i think that's wrong - crypto, like anything, should be broken down into pieces that can be discussed and implemented in chunks[00:49:13] <js> or we need to decide to exclude the community in some decisions[00:49:31] <jessicah> put your reference docs in a wiki, one references the other; but make the proposals for the parts that can operate independently, but with references to the others[00:49:33] <umccullough> and that would also be wrong[00:49:38] <js> umccullough: no, as every change later on needs a new review[00:49:47] <js> see how such a simple thing as ping broke SSL for 2/3 of the internet[00:50:06] <umccullough> if you start from the "we must implement all of this at once, and never touch it again", you will fail[00:50:10] <umccullough> sorry, that's reality[00:50:17] <js> umccullough: I never said we need to implement all of it at once[00:50:26] <umccullough> but that's how you planned to discuss it, all at once[00:50:28] <js> I said we need one crypto protocol that doesn't get changed later on much[00:50:37] <jessicah> js: you have to break it down into separate proposals[00:50:44] <jessicah> it's fine if one needs to depend on another[00:50:45] *** bebop-haiku has left #haiku[00:50:53] *** Cenbe has quit IRC[00:50:57] <jessicah> but you can't discuss 2-3 things in detail in the same thread[00:51:06] <js> jessicah: but that's not how a crypto protocol works. the security is that of the weakest part, so you need to design it with the whole thing in mind, not with parts[00:51:08] <umccullough> let me be clear, the technical aspects are not what i'm talking about here - it's the process of discussing a technical problem that failed[00:51:23] <jessicah> js: i'm not saying that[00:51:36] <js> what I wanted to do is outline the whole design[00:51:48] <js> so everybody can seek the weakest part there and look for flaws[00:51:54] <js> the first step is the design, not the implementation[00:52:08] *** Cenbe has joined #haiku[00:52:46] <jessicah> js: yes, but you're introducing it in a way that can't be discussed easily[00:53:19] <js> guess my problem is that I'm used to RFC-style discussions[00:53:27] <js> i.e. someone writes up a long proposal, others comment it[00:53:35] <umccullough> yeah, that doesn't tend to work in FOSS[00:53:57] <js> I only was at an IETF meeting once, but that worked pretty well, I have to admit :)[00:54:42] <js> anyway, I think the problem here is the community, which is full of people who don't care about or don't even want security[00:54:45] <umccullough> let me ask - do you think that's how openssl folks discuss changes?[00:54:54] <js> umccullough: they already *have* a protocol[00:55:00] <js> umccullough: OpenSSL is an implementation, not a protocol[00:55:08] <umccullough> you're not answering my question[00:55:09] <js> umccullough: guess how TLS was discussed?[00:55:16] <js> umccullough: it does asnwer your question[00:55:20] <umccullough> whatever[00:55:21] *** umccullough has left #haiku[00:55:24] <js> umccullough: the protocol and the implementation are two different things[00:57:04] <jessicah> js: you've been given suggestions on a better way to approach the community, and refuse to take it onboard[00:57:36] <js> jessicah: because I'm not willing to work on this anymore when people clearly state that they consider security an annoyance and not a feature[00:58:14] <jessicah> from your email, the impression I got was an all or nothing approach[00:58:25] <jessicah> i need secure boot, and encrypted FS, and this signature thingy[00:58:45] <jessicah> sure, maybe they depend on each other for good auditing[00:58:50] <js> jessicah: no, I said in every 2nd mail that this is not about secureboot, but that it would be compatible with secureboot. but that's the line everybody was ignoring all the time.[00:59:00] <jessicah> but you state here, right now, that you don't need all the parts[00:59:06] <jessicah> so make it so[00:59:10] <js> I got really tired repeating over and over again that it is not about secureboot[00:59:15] <jessicah> do a design for *signed packages*[00:59:20] <js> that's what I did[00:59:33] <js> and I pointed out how this design is future-proof in case we want secureboot[00:59:34] <js> that's all[00:59:43] <jessicah> no, you did a design for signed packages, secure boot, and a dependency on encrypted FS from your initial email[00:59:52] <js> no, the first part is about signed packages[00:59:59] <js> the second part explains how this can be used for secureboot[01:00:20] <js> every 2nd after that included a "But this is not about secureboot, even though it is compatible with it", which everybody ignored[01:00:32] <js> and after that it was "we don't want any kind if security at all, this is haiku!"[01:00:46] <js> s/2nd/& mail/[01:01:43] <js> jessicah: anyway, you're free to write a proposal of you're own :). That's way more productive than discussion something that has been buried and the branch dropped anyway[01:01:48] <js> s/you're/your/[01:02:02] <js> s/discussion/discussing/[01:03:16] <jessicah> alright then[01:03:37] *** nighty-_ has quit IRC[01:04:08] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[01:04:09] *** HaikuUser is now known as SMCollins[01:05:19] *** nighty-_ has joined #haiku[01:09:01] *** rennj has quit IRC[01:09:10] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[01:13:10] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[01:14:10] *** _marc` has quit IRC[01:15:16] <js> jessicah: anyway, what I'm way more interested in is making Haiku build without the repositories[01:15:31] <js> so it doesn't get in my way when I just refuse to download any binaries and thus couldn't care less about signing :)[01:16:04] <jessicah> mm yeah, that'd be useful :)[01:16:09] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[01:16:10] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[01:16:46] <js> jessicah: I did an initial patch that didn't work at all, I later realized[01:16:48] <js> jam is strange[01:17:34] <jessicah> yes, yes it is[01:18:55] <js> it seems to use different stages and there's one where it would always evaluate the download rule, even if dependency checking gave the result that no download is needed, thus triggering my error message[01:19:19] <js> jessicah: and the worst part of jam seems to be that we only have one developer who really understands it :([01:22:25] <jessicah> yep..[01:23:00] <js> I'd even go so far to say that Jam is what's holding Haiku back :/[01:23:10] <js> many developers are scared away from Haiku by it[01:23:37] *** mmadia has quit IRC[01:24:30] <jessicah> what would you replace it with?[01:31:26] *** ex-parrot has joined #haiku[01:35:07] <js> jessicah: that's a good question. I don't like CMake, but many love it and it can build huge projects like KDE. So maybe that.[01:35:27] <js> I myself prefer makefiles, but I guess I'm alone with that[01:36:20] <js> anyway, time to sleep! night![01:36:27] <jessicah> goodnight[01:42:20] *** NumberNoid is now known as zz_NumberNoid[01:51:12] *** hmstrmn has joined #haiku[01:57:38] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[02:15:22] *** KapiX has quit IRC[02:23:05] *** nighty-_ has quit IRC[02:23:12] <AlienSoldier> scanty[02:33:53] <IIsi50MHz> js, I suggest including everything like your original proposal, but move mentions of SecureBoot and encrypted FS to a footnote section. To encourage people to read all the way through your package signing without getting distracted[02:34:58] <IIsi50MHz> by thoughts like "But I HATE SecureBoot! That's what prevented me from putting Win7 on my Win8 laptop without sending it back to Lenovo for modification! Grrr, mutter-grumble, forgot original topic while screaming."[02:55:30] *** bob_ok has joined #haiku[03:02:30] *** bob_ok has quit IRC[03:05:43] *** kkux has joined #haiku[03:10:18] *** Bryanstein has quit IRC[03:20:02] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[03:23:32] *** Guest11130 has quit IRC[03:24:42] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[03:48:47] *** BitPuffin has quit IRC[03:52:36] *** Bryanstein has joined #haiku[03:57:21] *** pdziepak has quit IRC[03:57:22] <AlienSoldier> what is the syntax to start an app we don't want to appear in the Deskbar list of running app?[03:57:32] <AlienSoldier> from the terminal[03:57:55] <puckipedia> You need to add it to the rdef actually, iirc[03:58:03] <AlienSoldier> rdef?[03:58:13] <AlienSoldier> ressource?[03:59:35] <AlienSoldier> i see backgroud app, i guess this is it[04:00:20] <puckipedia> Yep, you need to change a flag in the file itself[04:00:23] <AlienSoldier> thats it, thanx[04:01:07] <AlienSoldier> no need for that big theScheduler icon on the screen[04:03:38] *** vgezer has quit IRC[04:14:28] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[04:22:35] *** epigraph has quit IRC[04:38:23] <bbjimmy> AlienSoldier theScheduler sounds like something I could use.[04:39:02] <AlienSoldier> bbjimmy i really like it. It is weird at first but i can't work without it now[04:39:18] <AlienSoldier> that said i can't seem to get the sound working with it in haiku[04:39:45] <AlienSoldier> at worst i can start media player with the window hidden (if haiku support that)[04:39:47] <bbjimmy> can it launch a script?[04:39:51] <AlienSoldier> yes[04:40:06] <bbjimmy> playsound .... soundfile[04:41:05] <bbjimmy> I have all kinds of things happening at intervals .... using sleep is a poor solution.[04:45:18] *** rennj has joined #haiku[04:47:30] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[04:49:37] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[04:50:42] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[04:50:43] <AlienSoldier> bbjimmy the sound player seem to want to play a little bit of the start of the sound once it reach the end. Seem to happen more with smaller file (i am testing wav)[04:53:26] <AlienSoldier> in media player it stop before the end (the progress bar still ahave a bit to go). So perhaps that non played part get played by playsound[04:53:46] <AlienSoldier> VLC and soundplay seem to play it well, so it seem an haiku native issue[04:55:40] <AlienSoldier> the sound preference must use the same playsound as it does the same bug. I am using the BeBeep.wav sound of R5 in case someone want to test[05:03:21] *** flos has joined #haiku[05:06:20] *** kkux has quit IRC[05:06:45] *** kkux has joined #haiku[05:13:18] <bbjimmy> theScheduler rocks[05:19:31] *** Guest11130 has joined #haiku[05:19:33] <jessicah> AlienSoldier: feel free to create a ticket and attach the soundfile to it ;)[05:23:19] *** ex-parrot has quit IRC[05:43:48] <AlienSoldier> bbjimmy did you got it to produce sound? Perhaps the single sound player was dirrerent in R5[05:44:34] <bbjimmy> not interested in sound, usst starting scripts.[05:47:50] <AlienSoldier> ii don't remember if it can start 2 in a row or if you have to add a time to each[06:35:39] *** SonicX has joined #haiku[06:42:53] *** KapiX has joined #haiku[06:45:45] *** pseudomind has joined #haiku[06:48:58] *** flos has quit IRC[06:54:24] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[07:00:45] *** kcj has joined #haiku[07:14:32] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[07:30:31] *** tqh has joined #haiku[07:37:42] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[07:52:43] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[07:53:13] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[07:55:55] *** Slor has quit IRC[08:00:12] *** Slor has joined #haiku[08:16:24] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[08:16:48] *** hmstrmn has quit IRC[08:20:21] *** pseudomind has quit IRC[08:21:08] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[08:35:42] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:36:37] *** alpha123 has quit IRC[08:38:26] *** alpha123 has joined #haiku[08:40:56] <irker-367> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev47120 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=0c11998+%5E840839b[08:40:56] <irker-367> 0c11998: Require SVG files to start with <?xml tag[08:46:54] *** pseudomind has joined #haiku[08:47:50] *** pseudomind has quit IRC[08:52:06] *** [JJ]Albert is now known as movc[08:53:00] *** movc is now known as [JJ]Albert[09:01:28] *** SonicX has quit IRC[09:03:34] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[09:23:50] *** soakbot has quit IRC[09:24:02] *** soakbot has joined #haiku[09:25:11] *** Blub\0 has joined #haiku[09:26:33] *** zeusk has joined #haiku[09:27:23] *** Blub\w has quit IRC[09:27:54] <zeusk> hi[09:30:58] *** _3dEyes has joined #haiku[09:56:06] *** TheHitMan has joined #haiku[09:57:15] *** Slor has quit IRC[09:58:08] *** nighty-_ has joined #haiku[10:02:47] *** TheHitMan has left #haiku[10:27:18] *** zeusk has quit IRC[10:42:01] *** jcay_mobile has joined #haiku[10:51:31] *** tqh has quit IRC[11:08:56] *** DKnoto_W has joined #haiku[11:13:34] *** Slor has joined #haiku[11:25:22] *** xlvbmca has joined #haiku[11:26:45] <xlvbmca> Hi. can somebody tell me a way to set global hook for some keyboard's keys?[11:27:51] <HAIKU-Buildbot_> build #2545 of x86-FreeBSD-host is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-FreeBSD-host/builds/2545[11:33:03] *** leszek has joined #haiku[11:42:38] *** xlvbmca has quit IRC[11:58:33] *** zz_NumberNoid is now known as NumberNoid[11:59:44] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[12:21:49] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[12:27:23] *** kcj has quit IRC[12:28:23] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[12:29:00] *** vgezer has joined #haiku[12:30:53] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:33:04] *** _3dEyes has quit IRC[13:59:07] *** Luko has joined #haiku[14:04:36] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[14:05:40] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[14:09:39] <Luko> hi[14:11:43] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[14:11:43] *** Luko has quit IRC[14:12:32] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[14:16:59] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[14:21:12] <js> IIsi50MHz: yes, indeed. if I ever pursue it again ;)[14:32:52] *** Blub\1 has joined #haiku[14:35:18] *** Blub\0 has quit IRC[14:43:00] *** _marc` has quit IRC[14:43:06] *** Blub\w has joined #haiku[14:46:04] *** Blub\1 has quit IRC[14:51:00] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[14:54:53] *** vgezer has quit IRC[14:57:30] *** DKnoto_W has quit IRC[14:57:45] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[14:58:18] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[14:59:06] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[15:04:39] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[15:07:55] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[15:08:54] *** leszek has quit IRC[15:10:51] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[15:11:23] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[15:12:23] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[15:27:56] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[15:28:49] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[15:31:25] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[15:31:38] *** tgkokk is now known as Guest35761[15:31:47] *** Guest35761 has quit IRC[15:37:42] *** tgkokk` has joined #haiku[15:38:48] *** tgkokk` has quit IRC[15:39:30] *** tgkokk` has joined #haiku[15:40:04] *** tgkokk` has quit IRC[15:51:04] *** SonicX has joined #haiku[15:58:23] *** axeld has joined #haiku[15:58:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[15:58:28] *** i336_ has quit IRC[16:09:23] *** Guest11130 has quit IRC[16:13:17] *** Cyrano has joined #haiku[16:26:11] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[16:32:45] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[16:37:55] *** poxip has joined #haiku[16:41:58] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[16:43:05] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[16:45:11] *** Cyrano has quit IRC[16:54:50] *** BitPuffin has quit IRC[16:55:29] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[16:56:14] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[17:01:03] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[17:03:37] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[17:08:29] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[17:09:05] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[17:13:48] *** poxip1 has joined #haiku[17:15:18] *** poxip has quit IRC[17:24:06] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[17:37:57] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[17:39:52] *** fhein has joined #haiku[17:46:49] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[17:51:26] *** epigraph has quit IRC[17:52:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[17:53:02] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[18:05:17] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[18:18:28] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[18:23:05] *** wpsea has quit IRC[18:23:24] *** wpsea has joined #haiku[18:25:36] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[18:26:42] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[18:29:06] *** vgezer has joined #haiku[18:29:30] <scanty> AlienSoldier, are you there?[18:29:55] <AlienSoldier> hi Scanty, i was not able to start pretendo[18:30:16] <scanty> it doesn't run at all?[18:30:24] <AlienSoldier> it does, but it terminate[18:30:36] <scanty> during rendering?[18:30:38] *** bebop-haiku has joined #haiku[18:30:41] <AlienSoldier> never see a window[18:30:49] <scanty> hm that's strange[18:31:11] <scanty> what kind of CPU do you have?[18:32:42] <AlienSoldier> P4[18:33:19] <AlienSoldier> tread "pretendo" caused exeption: invalid opcode exeption[18:33:42] <puckipedia> Ooh, your pc probably is too old[18:33:56] <puckipedia> is it an x86 app (gcc4)?[18:34:06] <AlienSoldier> an hybrid[18:34:15] <puckipedia> How's the app built?[18:34:22] <puckipedia> scanty: ^[18:34:23] <AlienSoldier> as QT work on it and so is older app[18:34:31] <puckipedia> so x86, check[18:34:52] <AlienSoldier> last thing i see in the terminal becore terminate or control C is "[Mapper::register_mapper] Registering Mapper: 0"[18:35:24] <scanty> built iwth gcc4 on gcc2h system[18:36:39] <puckipedia> AlienSoldier: does your cpu have sse3? May be that problem...[18:36:59] <AlienSoldier> i don't know[18:37:25] <PulkoMandy> Pentium 4 probably doesn't[18:37:45] <PulkoMandy> would be nice for the emulator to check this before starting[18:37:48] <AlienSoldier> it is a pre hyperthreading P4[18:38:38] <puckipedia> You can run sysinfo and checj if theh "Extended Intel" mentions SSE3[18:38:43] <puckipedia> the*[18:39:56] <AlienSoldier> PSE36 CFLUSH DS ACPI MMX FXSTR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM PBE[18:40:08] <puckipedia> nope, no sse3 I think[18:40:12] <puckipedia> That's probably the problem[18:43:12] <scanty> one of the blitters uses sse[18:43:15] <scanty> so it could be that[18:46:31] <scanty> but the app should still start[18:46:37] <scanty> since sse isn't used until blitting time[18:47:04] <PulkoMandy> depends which flags you used to compile the C code as well (-mcpu and -marchà[18:47:41] <scanty> they're in assembly, the blitters[18:48:41] <scanty> i guess maybe gcc is using sse instructions as well[18:48:45] <AlienSoldier> scanty in the debugger i see pretendo::addmenu(void) and...[18:48:45] <scanty> and that's why it crashes[18:49:39] <AlienSoldier> fisttp 0x230 (%esi)[18:49:45] <AlienSoldier> if that give you a hint[18:51:03] <puckipedia> That's SSE3[18:51:12] <puckipedia> So, you're out of luck[18:51:26] <scanty> AlienSoldier, I have to go out now, I wil build a version without SSE3 later on[18:51:34] <scanty> with mcpu and march[18:51:50] <scanty> the SSE blitter is regular SSE (not SSE3) so itshould be OK on your system[18:52:38] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[18:52:49] <AlienSoldier> ok, i will wait all day, dont forget to give me water before closing the door :P[18:53:30] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[18:53:39] <scanty> hehe[18:56:11] *** poxip1 has quit IRC[19:02:41] *** hamishm has joined #haiku[19:05:20] *** humdinger_ has joined #haiku[19:06:46] *** bebop-haiku has quit IRC[19:07:11] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[19:09:23] *** humdinger has quit IRC[19:09:23] *** humdinger_ is now known as humdinger[19:10:11] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[19:10:29] *** leszek has joined #haiku[19:11:17] *** rennj has quit IRC[19:14:21] *** timblaer has joined #haiku[19:14:50] <timblaer> Hello everyone![19:14:52] <timblaer> lol[19:17:25] *** timblaer has left #haiku[19:19:49] *** humdinger has quit IRC[19:23:43] *** rennj has joined #haiku[19:27:13] *** leszek has quit IRC[19:29:28] *** kkux has quit IRC[19:48:42] *** Luko has joined #haiku[19:54:14] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[19:54:43] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[19:54:53] *** jcay_mobile has quit IRC[19:55:52] *** Luko has quit IRC[20:07:28] *** FreeFull has joined #haiku[20:26:11] *** paulivanov has joined #haiku[20:31:22] *** dcase has joined #haiku[20:32:48] *** SonicX has quit IRC[20:34:15] *** endomancer has left #haiku[20:34:31] *** axeld has quit IRC[20:35:24] *** endomancer_ has joined #haiku[20:35:49] *** axeld has joined #haiku[20:35:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[20:36:39] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[20:38:18] *** endomancer_ has quit IRC[20:38:41] *** endomancer_ has joined #haiku[20:39:46] *** FreeFull has quit IRC[20:48:20] *** kkux has joined #haiku[20:48:22] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[20:53:05] *** pseudomind has joined #haiku[21:09:04] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[21:15:32] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[21:15:48] *** FreeFull has joined #haiku[21:18:42] *** pseudomind has quit IRC[21:24:09] <scanty> AlienSoldier, still there?[21:24:31] <AlienSoldier> scanty yes, between deskbar crash :)[21:24:49] <scanty> i'm going to compile a non sse3 version for you[21:26:31] <AlienSoldier> nice[21:27:04] <AlienSoldier> out of curiousity, what % in performance decrease this could bring?[21:29:29] *** poxip has joined #haiku[21:29:40] <scanty> probably nothing noticeable. the app was crashing on something haiku was doing, and not the emulator[21:30:02] <scanty> the compiler was using sse3 stuff by defalut, so i turned it off[21:30:05] <scanty> and am recompiling now[21:31:08] <scanty> compile takes a while in the VM[21:31:10] <scanty> bbiab[21:33:34] *** fhein has quit IRC[21:39:57] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[21:47:52] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[21:48:26] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[21:48:43] *** Vidiot_X has joined #haiku[21:49:51] <scanty> AlienSoldier, remove the old package[21:49:54] <scanty> and replace it iwth[21:49:55] <scanty> this one[21:50:10] <scanty> http://shell.reverse.net/~eli/incoming/pretendo.hpkg[21:50:21] *** poxip has quit IRC[21:51:19] <AlienSoldier> vision do not handle the hpkg file right :)[21:51:52] <scanty> yeah you will have to "save link as" from your browser[21:52:18] <AlienSoldier> used wget[21:52:25] <scanty> that works too :-)[21:55:05] *** hamishm has quit IRC[21:56:36] <scanty> does it work?[21:58:11] <AlienSoldier> scanty can't see to find the executable[21:58:39] <AlienSoldier> i wonder if i did something different, i am still not used with those packages[21:59:19] <scanty> ok, to remove the old one goto ~/config/packages[21:59:24] <scanty> and there will be a pretendo.hpkg[21:59:26] <scanty> delete it.[21:59:34] <scanty> then put the new package in ~/config/packages[21:59:44] <scanty> then goto ~/config/apps[21:59:50] <scanty> and there should be a pretendo folder there[21:59:51] *** i336_ has joined #haiku[22:00:25] <AlienSoldier> weird, that is what i did before. perhaps i was having it in both config and system[22:00:36] <AlienSoldier> i see it now, let's launch it ....[22:01:37] <scanty> it should work, i compiled for i686[22:02:55] <AlienSoldier> scanty Be is on screen :)[22:03:15] <AlienSoldier> took a while to start but it seem all my app start very slow[22:03:43] <AlienSoldier> i would assume that haiku app should start almost immediately, something is fishy there[22:03:44] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[22:05:42] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[22:05:47] *** kcj has joined #haiku[22:06:46] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[22:07:08] <AlienSoldier> scanty using direct window and bitmap does not give the same exact blue in the Be[22:07:33] <scanty> yeah, the colours are different in BDIrectWindow than in Bitmap[22:07:46] <AlienSoldier> in overlay i see a bit or artefact around the mouse (i use the software mouse pointer)[22:07:47] <scanty> no way around that, i'm afraid[22:08:04] <scanty> yeah, that's because there's no hardware cursor yet.[22:08:08] <AlienSoldier> you could correct it will a filter i guess[22:08:10] <scanty> but overlay works for you?[22:08:15] <AlienSoldier> yes[22:08:22] <scanty> great![22:08:30] <scanty> did you try full screen?[22:09:18] <AlienSoldier> Bdirect window cause a trace of black following the mouse cursor path[22:09:28] <scanty> yeah i know about that[22:09:34] <scanty> it's because there's no hardware cursor[22:09:46] <scanty> it's a haiku problem, not pretendo[22:10:49] <AlienSoldier> full screen show something but trammed or garbaged, not usable[22:11:11] <scanty> that's weird.[22:11:14] <scanty> it works here[22:12:13] <scanty> sound is OK?[22:12:37] <AlienSoldier> it then let a lot of white on the desktop i have to "paint" by moving windows over it[22:13:48] <scanty> i'm almost certain that's a haiku issue[22:13:55] <scanty> this code worked in BeOS![22:14:04] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[22:17:16] <scanty> i don't know of any other apps that use bwindowscreen so it's not likei have a reference to compare to.[22:17:29] <scanty> i implemented it by the book so it should work that way.[22:19:35] <AlienSoldier> scanty took me a while to check sound, seem all the game i checked did not have sound in attract mode :) The emulation is really slow here, the sound work on slow motion, feel to me 8 time slower (P4 1.6Ghz)[22:19:54] <scanty> yikes[22:20:47] <scanty> it does require a lot of CPU to emulate it cycle accurate, but it should be fine on a P4 IMO[22:21:03] <PulkoMandy> scanty: our BWindowScreen is very likely broken :([22:21:23] <scanty> ah[22:21:29] <scanty> well that explains that problem ;-)[22:21:57] *** dcase has quit IRC[22:23:52] *** rennj has quit IRC[22:24:09] <AlienSoldier> scanty sound work but just like i remember the R5 one, i have a speaker DC oumph when i use pause[22:24:50] <AlienSoldier> video emulation see good, keyboard work (did not test diagonal, i was plaing galaga)[22:24:59] <AlienSoldier> *seem[22:25:04] <scanty> yeah, that's from the BSoundPlayer stopping itself[22:25:06] <scanty> it crackles[22:25:13] <scanty> not much I can do about that either, unfortunately[22:25:23] <AlienSoldier> weird, why so?[22:25:34] <AlienSoldier> iot is part of the hardware?[22:25:38] *** axeld has quit IRC[22:25:39] <AlienSoldier> *is[22:25:43] <AlienSoldier> **is it[22:26:01] <scanty> i don't know exactly, it crackles here too when I pause[22:26:06] <scanty> or stop/start[22:26:12] <gordonjcp> AlienSoldier: like a click from the speaker?[22:26:31] <gordonjcp> AlienSoldier: possibly when you pause, you want to ramp the volume down over some small number of milliseconds[22:26:32] <AlienSoldier> gordonjcp like connecting a speaker with a biad dc[22:26:36] <AlienSoldier> *bias[22:26:40] <gordonjcp> yup[22:27:07] <gordonjcp> or apply a DC removal filter (really stupid single-pole highpass)[22:27:29] <AlienSoldier> scanty i think that the older R5 one you gave me where not cycle accurate so i can't really compare the speed[22:27:43] *** Megaf has quit IRC[22:27:48] <scanty> yeah the old one was not cycle accurate[22:27:52] <scanty> so it was much faster[22:27:59] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[22:28:30] <AlienSoldier> i am not hyper treading either[22:28:55] *** kcj has quit IRC[22:30:00] <scanty> well, it is an alpha build[22:30:07] <scanty> so..... ;-)[22:30:17] <AlienSoldier> it really is small on my monitor. It does not help that LCD have static resolution and that pixel need to be drawn many time to give a bigger picture[22:30:36] <AlienSoldier> ho, i appreciate the work, don't get me wrong :)[22:30:36] <scanty> you can make it double size[22:30:48] <jessicah> change screen res :P[22:30:55] <scanty> just hit maximise[22:30:58] <scanty> on the window tab[22:31:03] <scanty> it will go from 1x to 2x[22:31:23] <jessicah> i've used 720p on a 1080p monitor to get better fullscreen movie playback in haiku ;)[22:31:31] *** paulivanov has quit IRC[22:31:41] *** epigraph has quit IRC[22:32:06] <AlienSoldier> scanty now it's better[22:32:29] <scanty> cool[22:33:50] <AlienSoldier> i got it to crash with the hard reset[22:34:03] <AlienSoldier> also at one point i was no longer able to pause or stop[22:34:23] <AlienSoldier> +1 for the memory usage, it really does not seem to take much[22:34:43] <AlienSoldier> all the cpu usage seem to be in the "pretendo thread"[22:35:54] <scanty> yeah taht's the main thread that runs the show[22:36:33] <AlienSoldier> still don't support zipped rom? :P[22:36:41] <scanty> nope[22:36:44] <scanty> sorry![22:37:41] <scanty> anyways, I need a nap. feel free to send suggestions by e-mail.[22:37:43] <scanty> i'll bbl[22:37:45] <scanty> enjoy[22:37:49] *** idefix_gromit has left #haiku[22:45:59] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[22:46:25] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[22:47:03] *** luroh has joined #haiku[22:53:04] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[22:53:06] <Premislaus> hello[22:57:46] <gordonjcp> evening[22:57:48] *** Vidiot_X has quit IRC[23:00:09] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[23:00:42] <Premislaus> http://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhaiku-os.pl%2Fnode%2F1624&edit-text=[23:02:50] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[23:03:43] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[23:08:28] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[23:14:06] *** IIsi50MHz has quit IRC[23:14:25] *** the_clanks has quit IRC[23:14:27] *** IIsi50MHz has joined #haiku[23:18:22] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:20:53] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[23:24:59] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[23:25:11] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[23:25:21] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[23:26:00] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[23:27:34] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[23:36:42] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[23:39:46] *** paulivanov has joined #haiku[23:43:15] *** orealis has quit IRC[23:50:06] *** Muzer has quit IRC[23:57:28] *** Muzer has joined #haiku