February 15, 2014 
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February 15, 2014 [00:00:27] <ravens> how i see if a have bad init code:[00:07:22] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[00:08:08] <umccullough> dunno[00:11:08] *** Gedrin has quit IRC[00:11:58] *** ravens has quit IRC[00:12:07] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, do you remember the name of that program that allowed you to the raw key codes when you press a key in the command line?[00:15:44] *** Miyu is now known as hackkitten[00:17:30] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, nm, I found it[00:19:55] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, also, DropBox links crash Web+ more on that later[00:25:14] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[00:26:26] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[00:36:10] *** ravens has joined #haiku[00:36:32] <ravens> hi again[00:39:28] *** rdmr has quit IRC[00:51:43] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[00:53:08] <irker-111> haiku.master: jscipione * hrev46874 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=ceafe5b+%5E480a333[00:53:08] <irker-111> ceafe5b: Fix 2 shortcut bugs, one in Web+, one in S&T[00:54:02] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[00:54:08] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[00:57:28] *** tidux has left #haiku[01:00:31] *** ravens has quit IRC[01:01:47] *** jua_ has quit IRC[01:07:59] <js> mmu_man: they sometimes do in new stuff[01:10:00] <mmu_man> like, WinFS ? ;-)[01:25:29] *** bbjimmy1 has joined #haiku[01:26:05] <bbjimmy1> What eve[01:26:22] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[01:26:42] *** bbjimmy1 has quit IRC[01:27:14] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[01:29:26] <waddlesplash> arfonzo: can you rebuild your Qt packages with gcc4?[01:29:36] <waddlesplash> *gcc4.8[01:31:35] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:39:24] *** drcouzelis has joined #haiku[01:40:53] <drcouzelis> Hi, waddlesplash! What's up? :) (I'm very new to IRC.)[01:41:07] <waddlesplash> How new? ;-)[01:42:10] <waddlesplash> drcouzelis: I've been using it for 8mo now, so I'm sorta new[01:42:10] <drcouzelis> I can connect and type messages. That's about it.[01:42:27] <waddlesplash> Using a webclient or Vision or what?[01:42:39] <drcouzelis> At the moment, XChat in Arch Linux.[01:43:12] <waddlesplash> Ah, an Arch user. I keep telling myself I should switch from Kubuntu to Arch...[01:44:50] <waddlesplash> I'm not nerdy enough to want to manage partitions from a CLI tho :-P[01:48:38] <FreeFull> I've been on freenode for almost 7 years now o.o[01:48:44] <FreeFull> How time flies[01:50:55] *** oco2 has quit IRC[01:53:57] *** Plazma has joined #haiku[01:57:33] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[01:57:45] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[02:08:16] *** puckipedia|away is now known as puckipedia[02:17:45] *** puckipedia is now known as puckipedia|away[02:23:41] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[02:25:08] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[02:30:12] *** NumberNoid has quit IRC[02:31:31] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[02:37:24] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[02:48:55] <irker-111> haiku.master: js * hrev46875 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=a781bea+%5Eceafe5b[02:48:55] <irker-111> a781bea: Add zsh for x86[02:55:22] <irker-111> haiku.master: js * hrev46876 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=47343f6+%5Ea781bea[02:55:22] <irker-111> 47343f6: Update libpcre to 8.33-1 for x86[03:03:40] *** johndrinkwater has quit IRC[03:03:46] *** johndrinkwater has joined #haiku[03:10:28] *** mta has quit IRC[03:11:44] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[03:11:49] *** umccullough has quit IRC[03:11:49] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[03:20:36] *** orealis has quit IRC[03:21:57] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[03:34:06] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[03:35:03] *** orealis has joined #haiku[03:40:25] *** umccullough has quit IRC[03:40:36] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[03:44:41] *** epigraph has quit IRC[03:47:11] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[03:54:41] *** rvalles has quit IRC[03:55:44] *** drcouzelis has quit IRC[03:57:52] *** rvalles has joined #haiku[04:00:57] *** umccullough has quit IRC[04:01:07] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[04:23:12] *** soakbot has quit IRC[04:23:27] *** soakbot has joined #haiku[04:24:53] *** subcritical has quit IRC[04:38:14] *** NegrO_ has joined #haiku[04:42:12] *** Negr0_ has quit IRC[04:51:40] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[04:55:24] *** dr_evil_ has quit IRC[04:57:47] *** _3dEyes has joined #haiku[05:19:17] *** Barrett has quit IRC[05:21:18] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[05:22:04] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[05:31:28] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[05:32:00] *** hmstrmn has quit IRC[05:35:30] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[05:38:56] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[05:39:04] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[05:47:10] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[05:53:20] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[05:53:33] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[06:08:37] *** NegrO_ has quit IRC[06:19:27] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[06:40:14] *** BitPuffin has quit IRC[06:53:27] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[07:00:27] *** Xenmen has joined #haiku[07:04:46] *** mta has joined #haiku[07:52:24] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[08:07:45] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[08:13:25] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[08:19:22] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[08:23:40] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[08:30:00] *** puckipedia|away is now known as puckipedia[08:33:56] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[08:35:08] *** Blub\0 has joined #haiku[08:38:19] *** Blub\w has quit IRC[08:46:58] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[09:08:36] *** arselinux has quit IRC[09:09:24] *** jua_ has joined #haiku[09:11:55] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[09:12:27] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[09:13:00] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:15:19] *** fhein has joined #haiku[09:24:07] *** kneekoo has quit IRC[09:47:41] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[09:50:32] *** comrad has joined #haiku[09:50:35] *** comrad has joined #haiku[09:59:53] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[10:05:11] <humdinger> hullo.[10:05:20] <humdinger> I need a little bash help.[10:05:48] <humdinger> If i want to wait until some file exitst, that can be done with[10:06:02] <humdinger> while [ ! -e "$FILE" ] ; do[10:06:22] <humdinger> Can I also wait until either of two files exists?[10:06:55] <humdinger> mayb: while [ ! -e "$FILE" || "$FILE-2 ] ; do[10:07:20] <puckipedia> I guess you need to use -or[10:07:42] <humdinger> "-or" instead of the "||" ?[10:07:50] <puckipedia> Actually, like while [ ! -e "$FILE" ] || [ ! -e "$FILE" ][10:08:08] <humdinger> aha. I'll try that Thanks![10:15:53] <humdinger> For the records: "until [ -e "$FILE1" ] || [ -e "$FILE2" ]" works as expected.[10:23:37] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[10:38:44] *** fleph has joined #haiku[10:39:32] <fleph> hello there, people[10:39:40] <humdinger> oi fleph[10:40:19] <fleph> what's goin on humdinger?[10:40:42] <humdinger> nothing much...[10:40:51] <fleph> oh no![10:41:00] <humdinger> I finally got round to improve UberTubers GUI responsiveness[10:41:21] <humdinger> So that's a little personal win :)[10:41:38] * fleph embarassingly is googling ubertubers[10:41:57] <humdinger> my little youtube etc. viewer[10:42:20] *** Xenmen has quit IRC[10:43:48] <fleph> how's that workin out then?[10:44:11] <fleph> hopefully better than gnash. I couldn't get that working on haiku or even linux, really[10:44:41] <humdinger> It's really just a little GUI that uses youtube-dl for downloading a clip and playing it in MediaPlayer.[10:47:44] <fleph> that's really elegant. not to be too candid, but I hate the idea that to get to content (such as youtube) you've got to introduce haiku to a ton of BS[10:48:35] <humdinger> fleph: nah. having a video playing inside Web+ would be nice.[10:49:03] <humdinger> But first the MediaKit has to learn about streaming...[10:49:46] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[10:51:05] *** stippi has joined #haiku[10:51:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[10:51:08] <fleph> well, I like that I can control down to the very bottom EXACTLY what I'm accepting to be run on my computer. if I don't want images, I don't get images. if I don't want silverlight or flash, I don't get them. I might be thinking of this all too simply or maybe a bit outdated, but incorporating the whole kitten kabootle seems as good as it does bad[10:51:22] *** Sir_Designer has quit IRC[10:52:17] <fleph> that said, I use a mac half of the time, so I'm not a radical[10:52:28] <humdinger> fleph: we're not talking about integrating flash into Web+, but supporting html5 video.[10:52:33] <humdinger> that would be nice, right?[10:52:45] <fleph> well, any video in haiku would be good[10:53:36] <humdinger> I do agree though on the control. I wouldn't want media to start playing in websites by themselves.[10:53:49] <humdinger> I'll have "play" button, thank you...[10:54:54] *** Sir_Designer has joined #haiku[10:56:14] <fleph> I think that goes deeper than just things playing when you don't want them to. but that's another story.[10:56:35] *** freedomrun has joined #haiku[10:58:01] <fleph> but I do appreciate the wealth of video/audio software for Be and Haiku. I was surprised to find Handbrake was originally a Be program![10:58:45] <humdinger> yes. though I doubt Haiku really has a wealth of video/audio software...[10:59:35] *** Sir_Designer has quit IRC[11:00:16] <PulkoMandy> many half-working software, unfortunately :/[11:00:52] <fleph> well, all the Be stuff half-works on Haiku[11:01:02] *** Sir_Designer has joined #haiku[11:01:15] <fleph> but from a half-full perspective, it's pretty good[11:01:32] <humdinger> bloody optimists :P[11:02:05] <PulkoMandy> computer scientists see the glass 2 time as big as it needs to be, right ?[11:02:56] <fleph> each mL of the water in the glass is full, and thus the glass reaches its potential as there are no empty mLs[11:03:41] <humdinger> I'll leave you two philosophers to it...[11:03:42] <fleph> I guess it helps that I never used BeOS back in the day (though I desperately wanted to). the fact Haiku works at all astounds me.[11:03:51] * humdinger enjoys the sunny weather[11:04:03] <humdinger> cu[11:04:06] *** humdinger has quit IRC[11:05:33] *** Sir_Designer has quit IRC[11:07:05] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[11:07:09] <fleph> really, I hate computer science students. they're all an arrogant bunch of fcks, and around here, they hope to work at Texas Instruments, which has been laying off more people than it employes for a decade[11:07:36] <comrad> fleph: thank you. but i dont want to work at TI[11:08:06] *** Sir_Designer has joined #haiku[11:08:09] <fleph> comrad: I suppose you're a computer science dude[11:08:53] <comrad> fleph: i don't talk to you, as i am arrogant[11:08:59] <gordonjcp> fleph: tell us what you *really* think, eh, don't hold back[11:09:29] <puckipedia> Mostly, I guess it has to do with the Dunning-Kruger effect[11:10:29] <fleph> nah nah nah. I'm just generalising based on the people at my school. would you not agree that a lot of your classmates think they can MOV heaven and earth?[11:10:40] <puckipedia> MOV earth, heaven[11:10:50] *** fhein has quit IRC[11:10:50] <fleph> YES[11:10:51] <puckipedia> STZ hell[11:11:21] <PulkoMandy> when I was at school, I think not much of the other students wanted to work with computers - they came because the school was so close to the beach or something[11:12:39] <puckipedia> The school I'm in has a computer class thing[11:12:56] <puckipedia> First half year, everyone has to have it, mostly word + the elo[11:13:10] <fleph> Electric Light Orchestra?[11:13:14] <puckipedia> e-learning[11:14:00] <fleph> you mean that EVIL incorporation of computers with real lessons? like Blackboard ?[11:14:00] <puckipedia> For the second and third year, I don't quite know what happens (I don't have it, irony)[11:14:16] <puckipedia> Our system (itslearning) is actually quite good[11:14:32] <fleph> oh, well that gives me hope. I thought it was all just a big scam[11:14:34] <puckipedia> But the system they use for marks and the calendar, it runs on Silverlight[11:14:40] <puckipedia> And has 70% market share[11:14:46] <puckipedia> in the NL (high school)[11:20:31] <fleph> what is that, exactly?[11:20:53] <puckipedia> Silverlight, or the system?[11:21:03] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.[11:21:07] <puckipedia> Hi[11:21:30] *** Turingi has joined #haiku[11:21:58] <brobostigon> hi puckipedia[11:21:59] <fleph> the system your school uses. like I said, mine (and most schools I know in the US) use "BlackBoard Inc." which is EVIL. :)[11:22:09] <puckipedia> We use itslearning and Magister[11:22:26] <PulkoMandy> I don't remember what the system we have infrance is called[11:22:36] <puckipedia> Magister has a proprietary API, secured, but I didn't care and reverse-engineered it[11:23:03] <PulkoMandy> there is the open source http://www.tablix.org/ - why is no one using that ? :)[11:23:12] <puckipedia> It doesn't have support?[11:23:44] <fleph> because FAT CATS / WINING+DINING heheh[11:23:59] <puckipedia> Also, here's my client for the Magister API: https://github.com/puckipedia/MagisterAPI[11:24:26] <fleph> really, I talked to the dean of my school about this Blackboard nonsense and he seemed like he was totally swayed by whatever "[11:24:36] <fleph> "they" told him[11:24:43] <puckipedia> Blackboard and Magister and such all have very good support[11:25:09] <PulkoMandy> I guess the command line based interface doesn't help, either :)[11:25:18] <puckipedia> "If you're running Tablix in GNU/Linux you're probably using Bash as your shell."[11:25:33] <puckipedia> Most school IT will be "WTF is GNU/Linux? WTF is Bash?"[11:25:39] <puckipedia> "WTF is a shell?"[11:26:29] <puckipedia> Has anyone else ever experienced PowerFuse?[11:26:31] <fleph> as much as I like computers, I prefer pencil and paper when it comes to TESTS. to make all the teachers switch to a broken system (Blackboard AND 'Campus Connect v3' AND Campus Connect v4 AND the main website, none of which cooperate) is just bad bad bad[11:27:06] <fleph> I can't change my password in campus connect, although when I tried, it changed my password in blackboard[11:27:18] <puckipedia> wtf[11:28:27] <puckipedia> AD domains gone wrong[11:30:29] <fleph> see, that's why I'm sort of a luddite in these cases. people were doing just fine before computers. then instructions came from higher up to BUY new computers and try to make sense of them. not that computers are bad. they just aren't always needed, or appropriately applied.[11:30:49] <fleph> I'm done preaching now. what's up with you guys[11:30:52] <PulkoMandy> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espace_num%C3%A9rique_de_travail[11:31:18] <PulkoMandy> mh... looks like the french government gave a spec and there are a few dozen matching implementations[11:31:44] *** NumberNoid has joined #haiku[11:31:57] <puckipedia> Somewhat better?[11:32:22] <PulkoMandy> the one I had to use was ok, but I don't remember which one it was[11:32:57] <PulkoMandy> we used to open bug reports with the university system support, and then they were ping-ponging thoses between services and no one actually solved the bugs[11:33:00] <puckipedia> Woo! It's learning (or itslearning) is actually a supported ENT?[11:33:21] <fleph> man, the rest of the world is way ahead of this place[11:33:42] <gordonjcp> fleph: where are you?[11:34:02] <fleph> US. Texas.[11:34:43] <PulkoMandy> puckipedia: only for primary school ( <12 year old children)[11:34:43] <fleph> "silicon valley of the south" whatever[11:34:51] <puckipedia> sigh[11:34:57] <PulkoMandy> well, that's what the wikipedia article says, at least[11:35:40] <PulkoMandy> we didn't have such things when I was that young - we got an ISDN internet access just the last year I was there[11:35:59] <gordonjcp> heh[11:36:03] <puckipedia> Our network connection just doubled, 60/20 iirc[11:36:11] <gordonjcp> we didn't have Internet access at uni[11:36:12] <gordonjcp> well[11:36:22] <gordonjcp> JANET, if you could steal a username and password[11:36:49] <puckipedia> Our school "paper" has a top ten "what's wrong with the school"[11:36:56] <puckipedia> top one: Wifi for students[11:37:19] <gordonjcp> when I was at school, we had dial-up 2400bps modems[11:37:52] <fleph> to put it in perspective, I'm 22 years old and have had internet since I was 7. I really think it's harmed my psychological health.[11:37:59] <gordonjcp> fleph: heh[11:38:15] <PulkoMandy> I was at school in Lannion, where Orange (France Télécom) developped ADSL technology - so we had proper internet access at least[11:38:19] <gordonjcp> let's see, I first used the Internet... before you were born[11:38:30] <gordonjcp> fuck[11:38:45] <fleph> well, as being 22 years old, I've got to blame something for everything.[11:38:48] <puckipedia> I can't even remember having dial-up, we never had it afaik (14 years old)[11:39:17] <gordonjcp> puckipedia: you're 14 years old?[11:39:21] <puckipedia> yes[11:39:47] <gordonjcp> you're younger than the newest release of BeOS[11:39:49] <fleph> righto. puckman, fight the good fight[11:40:05] <gordonjcp> puckipedia: how did you get into Haiku?[11:40:30] <puckipedia> 2 years ago, I saw a tweet from @google about the Google Code-In[11:40:34] <gordonjcp> cool[11:40:35] <puckipedia> I went with netbsd, for some reason[11:40:41] <gordonjcp> NetBSD is good[11:41:10] <fleph> what about the rest of you, if it's not insulting to ask?[11:41:15] <puckipedia> This year, I saw the organisations[11:41:28] <puckipedia> And I saw Haiku, and I thought it would be fun to try[11:41:35] <gordonjcp> fleph: I got into Haiku because I'd played with BeOS back when it was current[11:41:42] <gordonjcp> puckipedia: best reason of all, imho[11:42:19] <irker-111> haiku.master: js * hrev46877 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=2937677+%5E47343f6[11:42:20] <irker-111> 2937677: Downgrade libpcre for x86[11:42:33] <PulkoMandy> I'm 25[11:43:03] <PulkoMandy> I got into Haiku because I had a very outdated computer in 2006 and BeOS would be the only OS that would run at acceptable speed on it :)[11:43:21] <js> puckipedia: heh, NetBSD is also quite nice :)[11:43:42] <fleph> I remember wanting DESPERATELY a BeBox. I had a Mac Quadra handmedown and my dad had an Amiga for work.[11:43:47] <gordonjcp> right, coffee time[11:43:47] <puckipedia> Although the mentors were, I would say, weird[11:44:02] <gordonjcp> and then I must get some MIDI server crash traces[11:44:20] <puckipedia> One of my tasks took 14 days to finish[11:44:54] <gordonjcp> I love how you can build the whole world in about twenty minutes from cold[11:45:12] <puckipedia> make world[11:45:16] <fleph> building coffee?[11:45:24] <gordonjcp> Haiku's probably small enough to fit the entire codebase in your brain[11:45:51] <puckipedia> git clone https://github.com/haiku/haiku.git /dev/brain[11:45:59] <gordonjcp> it's such a clean design you don't really need to though[11:45:59] *** stippi has quit IRC[11:46:07] <gordonjcp> orthogonality ftw[11:46:10] <js> gordonjcp: I disagree :P[11:46:19] <js> I can't even fir all my own code into my brain[11:46:21] <js> *fit[11:47:03] <irker-111> haiku.master: ithamar * hrev46878 [5 commits] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8f4db36+%5E2937677[11:47:03] <js> and since I know that, I comment tricky parts so that I don't always think "this is a problem" just to realize after thinking about it for some time that it actually does work this way because of $reason[11:47:04] <irker-111> 3eb1ffd: kernel/arm: implement stubs for new functions[11:47:04] <irker-111> 5cef6be: arm/atomic: fixup arch_atomic.h[11:47:04] <irker-111> 4b47d96: arm: fix compiler ARM architecture detection[11:47:05] <irker-111> f5e19a3: board/arm: cleanup setting of ARM compiler options[11:47:05] <irker-111> 8f4db36: arm/atomic: round of atomic function changes[11:47:18] <puckipedia> arm![11:47:29] <fleph> really, haiku is more stable than most OSes. it's VERY close to using for my primary OS[11:47:41] <fleph> even being alpha or whatever[11:47:44] <puckipedia> Ask PulkoMandy, he uses it[11:47:59] <puckipedia> Also, try the nightlies, if you haven't tried them[11:48:06] <js> it's close to being usable as a primary OS, but not quite there yet :/[11:48:19] <fleph> I haven't tried the package management whatnots yet[11:48:21] <PulkoMandy> I get some annoying panics and some fs corruption these days[11:48:25] <puckipedia> We just had a new scheduler[11:48:31] <PulkoMandy> but then again, I'm stressing the OS by compiling webkit all day long[11:48:43] <puckipedia> while true; do make webkit; done[11:48:59] <PulkoMandy> yeah, mostly that[11:49:13] <gordonjcp> js: youtube and facebook need to be rock solid for mass market appeal[11:49:24] <PulkoMandy> we even have a script doing that in the background in the webkit repos[11:49:27] <js> gordonjcp: facebook does work, youtube can be used using UberTuber[11:49:33] <js> gordonjcp: it's other things that worry me[11:49:42] <gordonjcp> js: facebook works *sometimes*, but messaging doesn't[11:49:49] <fleph> honestly, ubuntu server edition + MATE wm makes more drastic/devastating changes than Haiku..[11:49:51] <gordonjcp> also it's annoying that USB audio doesn't work[11:50:01] <PulkoMandy> gordonjcp: get a nightly - I'm fairly sure facebook works now[11:50:03] <gordonjcp> MATE is horrible though[11:50:03] <puckipedia> !patchwanted gordonjcp[11:50:06] <puckipedia> ugh[11:50:20] <PulkoMandy> at least no one complained in the ticket about it when I told 'this is probably fixed, anyone wants to test?'[11:50:20] <gordonjcp> MATE is the hideous reanimated corpse of Gnome 2, exhumed and roughly stuck together with tape[11:50:25] <fleph> NO NO NO MATE is a good friend of mine! NO[11:50:44] <gordonjcp> puckipedia: it's on my list[11:51:17] <fleph> we must differ here. I guess I could use XFCE or something, but I've been with MATE from the very beginning and I'm attached.[11:51:31] <js> gordonjcp: you could use a different browser if webkit gives you problems[11:51:33] <gordonjcp> I much prefer Unity these days[11:51:36] <js> erm, webpositive I mean[11:51:49] <PulkoMandy> I heard XFCE is getting worse since GNOME-2 nostalgic people started patching it :p[11:51:53] <gordonjcp> js: or just not dick about on facebook and youtube when I should be hacking[11:52:36] <fleph> I tried Unity. I could maybe get used to it, but it would take some tweaking, and I don't want to tweak. (not in the software sense, at least. ;) )[11:53:03] <js> while I really like PulkoMandy's work on WebKit, we're really not there yet when that's done. To use it as a primary OS, we need to disable some debugging (easy), have a working upgrade path and have signed packages[11:53:11] <gordonjcp> fleph: about the only "tweaking" I do is change the desktop background to something neutral, turn down the icon size, and turn off screen lock[11:53:39] <fleph> I've got the background a big Amiga checkmark.[11:53:39] <gordonjcp> PulkoMandy: is there a ticket for stripping leading spaces off pasted URLs in W+?[11:53:47] <fleph> otherwise MATE is a-ok[11:53:52] <PulkoMandy> gordonjcp: not that I know of[11:53:56] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[11:53:57] <gordonjcp> PulkoMandy: if I paste in a URL with a leading space, it tries to search[11:54:01] <js> gordonjcp: writing it takes less time than creating a ticket ;)[11:54:14] <gordonjcp> js: aha, I'm putting it up for discussion first[11:54:35] <gordonjcp> I believe the sane thing to do would be to strip leading spaces if it would otherwise be a valid URL[11:54:40] <puckipedia> I would say, just override the paste[11:54:45] <PulkoMandy> yes, the "smart" parser in Web+ really isn't that smart[11:54:47] <js> huh, why does the WebPositive copyright say "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY APPLE COMPUTER, INC."?[11:54:53] <puckipedia> WebKit?[11:54:58] <gordonjcp> js: Apple wrote most of WebKit[11:55:04] <puckipedia> Google Chrome trims the spaces too, even on searches[11:55:07] <js> gordonjcp: it didn't write a single line of Web+[11:55:07] <fleph> Apple controls most of the universe[11:55:23] <gordonjcp> js: it started out as part of Konqueror, got patched massively by Apple, and folded back into KDE as WebKit[11:55:26] <gordonjcp> iirc[11:55:30] <PulkoMandy> not Web+[11:55:32] <js> gordonjcp: I said WebPositive, not WebKit[11:55:42] <PulkoMandy> and no, it's not folded back into KDE at all[11:55:43] <gordonjcp> js: the libraries are from apple[11:55:55] <js> window->AddCopyright(2007, "Haiku, Inc.");[11:55:57] <js> that could also use some updating[11:55:59] <PulkoMandy> (Qt5 is moving to Blink anyway)[11:56:02] <gordonjcp> PulkoMandy: oh, I thought it was, maybe they just folded back to WebKit[11:56:14] <js> PulkoMandy: any idea why Web+ talks about Apple?[11:56:19] <gordonjcp> anyway, I might take a crack at that leading space thing myself[11:56:19] <js> sounds like header copy&paste to me[11:56:19] <PulkoMandy> js: that's ok, the AboutWindow parameter is "initial year"[11:56:46] <PulkoMandy> js: I think the license for parts of WebKit required that[11:56:53] <PulkoMandy> it's 2-clause BSD[11:56:57] <js> PulkoMandy: what do you think about s/APPLE COMPUTER/HAIKU INC./?[11:57:08] <js> I think this could even be a problem if Apple finds out[11:57:26] <js> I'll bring it up on the ML[11:57:39] <PulkoMandy> "[11:57:39] <PulkoMandy> 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright[11:57:39] <PulkoMandy> notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the[11:57:40] <PulkoMandy> documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.[11:57:41] <PulkoMandy> "[11:57:45] <PulkoMandy> this is WebKit license[11:58:37] <js> PulkoMandy: this is something completely different[11:58:48] <PulkoMandy> where do you see that apple computer in Web+ anyway?[11:58:52] <js> you are not required to list apple inc in the copyright of YOUR FILES[11:59:00] <js> you must show it in an about box or the documentation[11:59:03] <PulkoMandy> you mean in the sources?[11:59:05] <js> PulkoMandy: yes[11:59:11] <js> BrowserApp.cpp[11:59:22] <js> and .h[11:59:31] <js> BrowserWindow.cpp[11:59:33] <js> etc.[11:59:55] <PulkoMandy> only these two files, it seems[12:00:16] <PulkoMandy> this was first developed as part of WebKit (as the HaikuLauncher)[12:00:29] <gordonjcp> I think the MIDI server needs a bit of love, there's some really odd stuff going on[12:00:31] <PulkoMandy> but yes, we should change that now that it's moved out of it[12:00:37] <js> still, listing Apple Computer if not a single line is from them seems just wrong :)[12:00:53] <PulkoMandy> it's not a copyright[12:00:57] <gordonjcp> when I boot Haiku with my W30 plugged in over MIDI, the W30 starts spamming masses of statuses[12:01:11] <gordonjcp> and this KDLs Haiku[12:01:40] <js> PulkoMandy: exactly, Apple is not in the copyright, but in the disclaimer[12:02:29] <PulkoMandy> let me check WebKit licenses...[12:02:37] <PulkoMandy> they say to use this: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebKit/LICENSE[12:02:40] <PulkoMandy> for all new files[12:02:46] <fleph> the "spiggot of information"[12:03:23] <js> PulkoMandy: for files inside of WebKit, yes[12:03:24] <PulkoMandy> http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebKit/LICENSE[12:03:35] <PulkoMandy> yes, as I said, these were written in the WebKit tree first[12:03:46] <PulkoMandy> then split out as the Web+ browser, then merged into Haiku[12:04:04] <PulkoMandy> so we need agreement from Stephan and Ryan to change the license to regular MIT one[12:07:39] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[12:13:50] <fleph> so has anyone got a video (/RF) capture card working on Haiku?[12:17:00] <gordonjcp> two secs[12:17:09] * gordonjcp rummages[12:17:48] <gordonjcp> no[12:17:52] <fleph> :([12:18:27] <gordonjcp> it sees my EasyCap as a new USB devce but does nothing with it[12:18:37] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[12:19:53] <gordonjcp> cheapy Logitech webcam, shows as a fullspeed device, says it's connected, says it's removed, says the port is disabled[12:21:08] <gordonjcp> can't find my Philips PVC[12:21:29] <gordonjcp> or the *really* cheap and shitty Tesco Value Webcam (yes really)[12:23:31] <gordonjcp> I think that USB video might need isochronous USB first[12:24:07] <puckipedia> Audio too, I guess[12:24:21] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[12:33:33] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[12:36:00] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[12:37:35] *** kcj has quit IRC[12:42:47] *** fleph has quit IRC[12:54:32] *** Turingi has quit IRC[12:57:41] <PulkoMandy> gordonjcp: I had this problem with full speed usb too[12:57:49] <PulkoMandy> only one of the 3 ports on my laptop works with those[13:00:44] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[13:05:50] *** puckipedia is now known as puckipedia|away[13:07:42] *** Pardoxon has joined #haiku[13:17:41] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[13:24:48] *** alvin_ has joined #haiku[13:24:52] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[13:25:42] *** tqh has quit IRC[13:33:32] *** rdmr has quit IRC[13:35:41] *** Blub\0 is now known as Blub\w[13:39:53] *** fhein has joined #haiku[13:41:32] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[13:47:53] *** ksx4system has quit IRC[13:48:25] *** ksx4system has joined #haiku[13:52:13] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[13:57:54] *** _3dEyes has quit IRC[13:58:06] *** idefix_gromit has left #haiku[14:17:06] *** subcritical has joined #haiku[14:21:05] *** jua_ has quit IRC[14:33:40] *** jua_ has joined #haiku[14:59:39] *** Negr0_ has joined #haiku[15:07:58] *** tqh has joined #haiku[15:10:18] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[15:20:16] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[15:25:45] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[15:58:47] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[16:18:19] *** stargater has joined #haiku[16:19:14] <stargater> hi[16:22:26] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[16:22:40] <brobostigon> moin stargater[16:27:35] *** oco2 has quit IRC[16:29:56] <scanty> does haiku/amd64 follow system v calling convetion?[16:30:04] <scanty> i.e. the way every OS does it *except* windows?[16:30:18] <scanty> (ignoring mac OSX rip-relative stuff)[16:31:13] <OmniMancer> is that the same as the itanium ABI?[16:31:23] <scanty> no, itanium is a separate achitecture.[16:31:32] <scanty> I am referring to amd64/x86_64[16:31:38] <OmniMancer> maybe that is just for C++[16:32:08] <OmniMancer> yes it's its own arch but the C++ ABI is used as a base for everything AFAIK[16:32:45] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[16:33:16] <OmniMancer> scanty: it probably uses whatever GCC does for it with elf[16:33:37] <scanty> ok, then i'll assume it follows system v[16:33:49] <OmniMancer> why do you ask btw?[16:34:00] <scanty> i write a lot of assembly.[16:34:07] <OmniMancer> ah[16:34:14] <OmniMancer> for any particular purpose?[16:34:31] <scanty> all kinds of things, my latest project is a 6502/2A03 CPU emulator for my NES emulator, pretendo[16:34:34] <scanty> which is Haiku native.[16:34:52] <OmniMancer> scanty: you can check if you need to by just making the compiler spit out assembly[16:35:02] <scanty> yeah, that's true[16:35:03] <xyzzy> yes, it's the SysV ABI[16:35:11] <scanty> cool thanks[16:35:13] <OmniMancer> :)[16:35:25] <OmniMancer> hi xyzzy[16:35:36] <xyzzy> hi[16:35:44] <umccullough> he's alive![16:35:48] <umccullough> :)[16:36:32] <scanty> hi umccullough going to try installing haiku to it's own drive soon.... just cleaning up my old one and moving some files around[16:36:36] <scanty> moved from linux to freebsd[16:36:37] <xyzzy> heh, been very busy the last few months[16:36:40] <umccullough> nice[16:36:56] * umccullough has been busy too[16:37:27] <scanty> GRUB2 scared me a little bit, but i used your example to chainload both windows (which i never use) and freebsd, and it worked like a charm[16:37:40] <umccullough> good deal[16:37:51] <scanty> yeah, turned out to be really easy![16:37:52] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[16:38:05] <umccullough> grub's config tool can auto-detect windows at least[16:38:14] <umccullough> and the one I showed you was an auto-detection of haiku ;)[16:38:24] <scanty> i couldn't autodetect anything from freebsd[16:38:29] <umccullough> ah, yeah[16:38:29] <scanty> not even freebsd itself[16:38:31] <umccullough> lol[16:38:39] <scanty> so i just manually did everything, took 5 minutes and two reboots[16:39:14] <umccullough> fbsd has its own bootloader doesn't it?[16:39:28] <OmniMancer> yes[16:39:29] <umccullough> or does it also use grub by default?[16:40:00] <OmniMancer> pretty sure it has its own first and second stage BL[16:46:29] <scanty> it has BTX[16:46:53] <scanty> which i think is second stage[16:46:56] <scanty> i don't really know.[16:47:01] <scanty> all i know is chainloading it from grub2 works[16:47:04] <scanty> so :-)[16:47:06] <umccullough> i know my freenas machine has some weird bootloader thingy[16:48:46] <scanty> i like freebsd much more than ubuntu, which i was previously using[16:50:37] <umccullough> i pretty much avoid ubuntu at this point[16:50:50] <umccullough> although, i'm still using mint[16:50:59] <scanty> i used mint for a while, too[16:51:07] <scanty> tbh, i miss slackware.[16:51:11] <umccullough> heh[16:51:16] <scanty> but i just got tired of linux, and i don't like any of the distros.[16:51:35] *** Turingi has joined #haiku[16:51:35] *** Turingi has joined #haiku[16:51:50] <scanty> i just hope i can get quartus working under LBE[16:52:02] <umccullough> slackware was the first distro I ever downloaded (on floppies)...[16:52:16] <OmniMancer> you do fpga stuff?[16:52:26] <scanty> OmniMancer, yeah, i just started learning verilog.[16:52:33] <scanty> I can do simple gates, but that's about it for now[16:52:35] <OmniMancer> EVIL![16:52:55] <OmniMancer> I prefer VHDL because it doesn't have magical implicit behaviour[16:53:09] <scanty> i went with verilog because it looks a lot simpler than VHDL[16:53:17] <scanty> and everyone i know who does FPGAs does verilog[16:53:20] <OmniMancer> it's less verbose[16:53:27] <OmniMancer> also you are in the US i guess[16:53:31] <scanty> yes[16:53:31] <OmniMancer> where they do verilog[16:53:40] <OmniMancer> here in NZ VHDL is supposed to be more prevalent[16:53:45] <scanty> ah[16:53:58] <OmniMancer> I just like vhdl because you say what you mean :/[16:54:18] <scanty> hehe[16:54:40] <OmniMancer> also I feel like some of the arithmetic is easier to control than in verilog[16:54:53] <OmniMancer> you know if you are getting signed or unsigned arithmetic[16:55:16] <scanty> they're both pretty tricky if you're coming from a C/C++ background.[16:55:24] <scanty> totally different programming methodology.[16:55:25] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[16:55:42] <OmniMancer> well they aren't programming so much as describing how hardware works[16:55:50] <scanty> yeah[16:56:12] <OmniMancer> you can't do sequential unless you make state machines[16:56:17] <scanty> right[16:56:21] <OmniMancer> or chains of registers[16:59:07] <OmniMancer> in vhdl there are sequential constructs, but they are only sequential in the logical ordering of values and actions when making the "circuit" not actually sequential[17:00:05] <scanty> ah[17:01:45] <OmniMancer> you can have if and case statements, but all they do is describe selection of logic or registers (you have to do registers with a certain pattern where you have an if with no else clause)[17:02:13] <scanty> you have that in verilog too.[17:02:18] <scanty> afaik[17:02:33] <OmniMancer> verilog does let you declare things as registers[17:02:40] <OmniMancer> but I don't know if that does anything[17:02:41] <scanty> yes[17:03:11] <OmniMancer> in VHDL a register is just a signal that gets assigned only in certain conditions, such as a clock edge or a reset signal condition[17:04:45] <scanty> has qt been ported to haiku? i thought i saw something to that effect a while ago.[17:05:19] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[17:05:24] <OmniMancer> yes AFAIK[17:05:38] <scanty> neat[17:05:42] <scanty> wonder if i could build kicad[17:06:53] <OmniMancer> hmm[17:09:25] *** stargater has quit IRC[17:16:53] *** alvin_ has quit IRC[17:21:53] *** Pardoxon has quit IRC[17:23:19] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[17:23:47] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[17:27:07] *** hmstrmn has joined #haiku[17:37:50] *** puckipedia|away is now known as puckipedia[17:37:59] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[17:38:36] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[17:42:55] *** JonathanThompson has 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has quit IRC[19:41:09] *** HubertX4 has joined #haiku[19:42:58] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[19:52:27] *** HubertX4 has quit IRC[20:05:27] *** HubertX4 has joined #haiku[20:14:14] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:22:18] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC[20:22:24] *** stargater has quit IRC[20:28:12] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[20:30:20] *** PasNox has quit IRC[20:40:47] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[20:44:13] <Not-003> [haikuporter] zooey pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://bitbucket.org/haikuports/haikuporter/commits/[20:44:16] <Not-003> [haikuporter] zooey 939d630 - Allow fixing of the port versions put into the repository. * explicit port versions specified via a portsfile are now respected when the repository is being populated[20:50:22] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[20:51:33] *** Paradoxon has joined #haiku[20:52:47] <irker-111> haiku.master: axeld * hrev46879 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=ef18b77+%5E8f4db36[20:52:48] <irker-111> ef18b77: trim: added debug output.[20:54:03] *** kkux has quit IRC[20:54:36] *** kkux has joined #haiku[21:19:59] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[21:29:27] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[21:33:26] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[21:44:15] *** kkux has quit IRC[21:47:34] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[21:49:01] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[21:50:29] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[21:50:30] *** fhein has quit IRC[21:51:44] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[21:55:27] <bbjimmy> What findpaths directory constant should I use to replace GCC_OPT = $(DBG) $(OPT) -I. -I/boot/home/config/include/ -I/boot/home/config/include/ncurses/ -DHAVE_CONFIG -DUNIX $(HAIKUOPT)[21:56:29] <bbjimmy> still fixing having ncurses_devel installed in /boot/home/config/packages[21:57:51] <bbjimmy> part of the BuildFactory AutoFooter.mak file ... htto://fatelk.com/yab yab-ide.hpkg[21:58:12] <bbjimmy> http://fatelk.com/yab[21:58:24] *** HubertX4 has quit IRC[21:59:30] <bbjimmy> There is no /boot/home/config/include in a PM haiku[22:00:33] <gordonjcp> evening[22:01:51] <bbjimmy> Afternoon[22:02:36] <bbjimmy> Pacific time: Sat Feb 15 13:02:25 2014[22:06:53] *** HubertX4 has joined #haiku[22:09:18] <puckipedia> bbjimmy, correct[22:09:30] <puckipedia> actually, nvm somewhat?[22:09:51] <bbjimmy> ??[22:09:59] <puckipedia> iirc, they may be made if a package with that folder is added[22:10:45] <puckipedia> The config/non-packaged/include will not be merged with config/include, due to performance issues iirc[22:11:56] <bbjimmy> tab BuildFactory is looking for ncurses headers there, they are not installed in an "includes" directory, they are installed in development/headers[22:12:11] <bbjimmy> *yab[22:12:23] *** HubertX4_ has joined #haiku[22:12:42] *** HubertX4 has quit IRC[22:12:48] *** HubertX4_ is now known as HubertX4[22:13:18] <bbjimmy> How do I make sure they are found weather the ncurses_devel is installed in /syste,/packages or /boot/home/packages?[22:13:30] <bbjimmy> #system[22:13:37] *** kneekoo has joined #haiku[22:13:54] <puckipedia> I guess change the -I/boot/home/config/include part with $(add_prefix -I,$(add_suffix ncurses/,$(shell findpaths B_FIND_PATH_HEADERS_DIRECTORY -c " ")))[22:14:03] <puckipedia> Might work, but I'm not 100% sure[22:14:39] * bbjimmy gives it a try[22:14:50] <Anarchos> puckipedia ever be careful when using black magic....[22:15:10] <puckipedia> this will take the list of development headers, seperated by a space, suffix it with ncurses/, and prefix it with -I (/system/development/headers/ will become -I/system/development/headers/ncurses/)[22:15:52] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[22:18:58] *** nighty^ has joined #haiku[22:21:23] *** poxip has joined #haiku[22:23:03] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[22:25:53] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[22:44:43] *** freedomrun has quit IRC[22:53:08] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[22:53:20] *** niklaskorz has joined #haiku[22:54:46] <niklaskorz> Hello[22:55:07] <poxip> hi[23:02:11] *** comrad has quit IRC[23:02:46] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:03:36] *** arselinux has joined #haiku[23:04:54] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[23:14:16] <gordonjcp> evening[23:15:56] *** puckipedia is now known as puckipedia|away[23:22:48] *** hackkitten has quit IRC[23:23:59] *** hackkitten has joined #haiku[23:26:53] *** nighty^ has quit IRC[23:31:34] *** kkux has joined #haiku[23:32:29] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[23:33:19] <HaikuUser> hey guys, i can get throught the install fine and everythign goes well until i restart, then I just get a blank screen...? This is with the alpha3 and alpha4 iso[23:33:25] *** HaikuUser is now known as ceh421[23:36:58] *** Negr0_ has quit IRC[23:42:00] *** ceh421 has quit IRC[23:45:17] <bbjimmy> OK, here is the real issue. if ncurses_devel is installed under system, a libncurses.so link is created under /systemdevelop/lib, if it is installed under config, there is no lncurses.so link.[23:47:58] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[23:48:51] *** stargater has joined #haiku