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[00:04:50] <umccullough> so, you have to "install" it by launching it from there and telling it to live in the deskbar
[00:05:10] <umccullough> oh, he left
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[00:46:04] <irker-091> haiku.master: axeld * hrev46795 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=cc94643+%5E6464f4f
[00:46:05] <irker-091> cc94643: Screenshot: fixed alpha channel handling.
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[00:56:48] <Maqs> so. gute nacht
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[01:03:24] <mildused> hello anyone activ
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[02:10:26] <irker-091> haiku.master: jscipione * hrev46796 [14 commits] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8197db5+%5Ecc94643
[02:10:26] <irker-091> eb774c2: TextView: Update navigation shortcuts
[02:10:27] <irker-091> c40938a: Mail: update quote shortcuts.
[02:10:27] <irker-091> 37fa822: Mail: Make quote and unquote work better
[02:10:28] <irker-091> 2a64403: Mail: Tiny style fix
[02:10:28] <irker-091> 9f7f92d: Mail: Make quote work with B_OPTION_KEY too.
[02:10:29] <irker-091> 741987b: WebPositive: Style fixes, 80 char limit and ws
[02:10:29] <irker-091> c21873f: WebPositive: BTextView shortcuts work in URL bar
[02:10:30] <irker-091> 27b7673: App Server: Fix typo
[02:10:30] <irker-091> 3779f5c: App Server: Style fixes only
[02:10:31] <irker-091> ...
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[04:21:45] <waddlesplash> __HaikuNoob__: new user?
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[04:24:08] <waddlesplash> __HaikuNoob__: are you a new user?
[04:25:45] <waddlesplash> For anyone reading this: Do you have any CTags alternatives that AREN'T listed here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7748454/is-there-an-alternative-to-ctags-that-works-better
[04:25:45] <waddlesplash> If you do, please tell me as I need one!
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[04:30:58] <OmniMancer> waddlesplash: do you have the same requirement stated in the question?
[04:31:13] <waddlesplash> actually
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[04:32:39] <waddlesplash> "expands #define(x, y) x ## y style macros for function declarations" -- would be nice, not making that a requirement tho
[04:32:39] <waddlesplash> "processes #include statements" -- need this to be optional - I want a list of #includes but not the symbols in the #include files themselves
[04:32:39] <waddlesplash> also, I need it to print the entire function declaration (meaning, "int\n main(int argc, \n char* argv[])" appears as the same thing minus the '\n's
[04:32:42] <waddlesplash> OmniMancer: ^
[04:33:41] <OmniMancer> hmmm
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[04:34:15] <waddlesplash> currently, CTags doesnt do #1, probably could do #2, and doesn't do #3 for sure
[04:34:35] <waddlesplash> OmniMancer: I care about the last above all of them, if it doesn't have that, I won't accept it
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[11:35:35] <irker-091> haiku.master: threedeyes * hrev46797 [2 commits] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=712bf75+%5E8197db5
[11:35:35] <irker-091> 385e65f: NTFS: Fix Coverity CID 1108342: resource leak
[11:35:35] <irker-091> 712bf75: NTFS: Fix TRACE position
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[17:19:58] <Premislaus> hello
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[17:21:27] <humdinger> hu
[17:22:43] <umccullough> Premislaus, are you sure that hardware can even handle 64bit addresses to begin with? :)
[17:22:51] <umccullough> a lot of old devices can't
[17:23:05] <Premislaus> why not?
[17:23:17] <umccullough> because the hardware was designed for 32bit addressing?
[17:23:27] <umccullough> remember, these devices share memory with the main system
[17:23:33] <umccullough> via DMA
[17:23:42] <umccullough> or otherwise
[17:24:22] <umccullough> and so, they will need some hacks to reserve memory ranges that can be translated to 32bit
[17:24:35] <Premislaus> Many people bought Alpha-based servers, which are 64-bit and put there Voodoo.
[17:24:36] <umccullough> it can get pretty messy from what I gather
[17:24:46] <umccullough> you're talking about a scenario that doesn't even exist in haiku
[17:24:53] <umccullough> 1. there are no people running haiku on alha
[17:24:55] <umccullough> alpha
[17:25:24] <umccullough> and the ticket was about x86_64, not alpha64
[17:25:32] <umccullough> so, that is a completely different problem
[17:25:52] <umccullough> in any case - like i said - if nobody is actually going to test it, then it's pointless to add them
[17:26:02] <umccullough> a broken driver is worse than no driver, in many cases
[17:26:21] <umccullough> especially when the fallback is vesa, and working
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[17:27:23] <umccullough> so, i see no immediate need to clog up the x86_64 images with useless, potentially-broken drivers - do you?
[17:27:35] <Premislaus> I know one person who want port Haiku to the DEC Alpha, but doesn't have time.
[17:27:37] <Premislaus> :P
[17:27:41] <umccullough> but again
[17:27:46] <umccullough> how does that affect x86_64 images?
[17:27:59] <umccullough> totally, completely unrelated
[17:28:21] <umccullough> let me point out, NONE of those drivers are currently included on powerpc
[17:28:31] <umccullough> becuase NONE of them have been fixed and tested to see if they work there
[17:28:41] <Premislaus> You are right
[17:29:13] <umccullough> now, on the other hand...
[17:29:33] <umccullough> i happen to have hardware supported by those drivers lying around here somewheree...
[17:29:49] <umccullough> and if I can find an AMD64 box with an AGP slot, i might even test it :)
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[17:30:17] <umccullough> but... last time i tried 3dfx driver on haiku, it didn't even work for me
[17:30:26] <umccullough> so, as far as I'm concerned, that driver is already broken anyway
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[17:31:12] <umccullough> i wanted to test the ATI driver too, as I have a couple old Rage cards - but they're all packed up, and I moved to a new house since it was added to haiku :/
[17:31:40] <umccullough> so, if I ever dig that stuff out of storage...
[17:32:01] <Premislaus> Personally, I think we should not cut off support for old hardware that can work.
[17:32:04] <Premislaus> http://www.shopzilla.com/asus-k8t800pro-motherboard/328539508/shop#details
[17:32:10] <umccullough> i never said to cut off the support
[17:32:21] <umccullough> i simply asked: why add it if nobody is using it?
[17:32:37] <umccullough> when someone actually has a use for it, we can fix the driver, test it, and add it
[17:32:52] <Premislaus> *http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/chipsets_d/ASUS/K8T800+Pro+VT8237/
[17:33:01] <umccullough> it's far more likely that people are going to use that hardware on a 32bit haiku than a 64bit haiku
[17:33:07] <Premislaus> OK
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[17:34:29] <umccullough> i find it amusing that there are variants of linux now that use 32bit addressing in 64bit mode because 64bit slows everything down
[17:34:46] <umccullough> and is usually unnecessary for most things
[17:35:21] <Premislaus> umccullough: BTW Pdziepak bought a server with Sparc - T1 (Niagara), 32 logical CPUs. We can persuade him to port ;-).
[17:35:40] <umccullough> sounds like a huge project ;)
[17:35:40] <puckipedia> Now that it's possible :)
[17:35:50] <pdziepak> i am not going to port haiku to sparc ;)
[17:35:53] <puckipedia> 32 logical cpus are now finally addressable
[17:36:06] <umccullough> sparc is basically dead anyway
[17:36:17] <pdziepak> i can't even cross build x86[_64] because of the strict alignment
[17:36:27] <pdziepak> and apparently our host tools ignore that matter
[17:37:07] <umccullough> honestly, i'd rather we ported haiku to arm before anything else :P
[17:37:20] <umccullough> there's a lot more usefulness in that
[17:37:33] <umccullough> but, everyone has an itch to scratch
[17:37:46] <Premislaus> Why, ARM is dying ;-)
[17:38:14] <umccullough> not remotely
[17:38:21] <umccullough> amd just announced their new ARM chips
[17:38:29] <Premislaus> The new Intel processors are more efficient, consume less electricity.
[17:38:32] <puckipedia> You could make Haiku for Android
[17:38:33] <Premislaus> for servers
[17:38:50] <umccullough> good thing intel isn't the only processor maker on earth :D
[17:39:02] <Premislaus> We have a working code.
[17:39:45] <umccullough> so, let me understand - you'd rather we ported haiku to sparc and alpha, but not arm?
[17:40:00] * umccullough 's head explodes
[17:40:43] <PulkoMandy> I could help with the ARM port, if I had suitable hardware
[17:40:44] <puckipedia> Cleanup on channel #haiku please!
[17:40:51] <puckipedia> PulkoMandy: You have a phone?
[17:40:57] <umccullough> PulkoMandy, what's "suitable" ?
[17:41:07] <PulkoMandy> puckipedia: not a mobile one
[17:41:07] <umccullough> rpi?
[17:41:18] <umccullough> beaglebone?
[17:41:23] <umccullough> cubieboard?
[17:41:24] <umccullough> :)
[17:41:26] <puckipedia> Amd seattle?
[17:41:30] <PulkoMandy> :)
[17:41:36] <umccullough> name your device...let's see what we can do
[17:41:48] <PulkoMandy> I guess anything with a serial port and uboot is ok for initial debugging
[17:41:59] <umccullough> i think we still have some gumstix overo devices
[17:42:01] <PulkoMandy> so, what do you want it ported to?
[17:42:07] <Premislaus> No, Haiku should have a good x86-64 port. But computers based on PPC, Alpha, Sparc, Mips are better than ARM. Because they are more efficient, have IDE, SATA, expandable RAM.
[17:42:14] <puckipedia> Lol
[17:42:15] <umccullough> pfoetchen might still have one of them he's not currently using
[17:42:21] <puckipedia> ppc I can expect
[17:42:37] <PulkoMandy> http://utilite-computer.com/web/home
[17:42:45] <umccullough> Premislaus, i don't think it's about efficiency - it's about usefulness
[17:42:48] <PulkoMandy> ARM, SATA, and enough RAM
[17:42:48] <puckipedia> PulkoMandy: Beaglebone black has a uboot, and serial: http://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBone_Black_Serial
[17:43:00] <umccullough> there are a lot more cheap arm devices out there capable of running an OS like haiku (if it was properly ported)
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[17:43:17] <Premislaus> PulkoMandy: which boards?
[17:43:32] <umccullough> PulkoMandy, cubieboard would be a good option i think?
[17:44:38] <Premislaus> only one sata, no PCI-E, no RAM slots, etc.
[17:44:39] <pfoetchen> umccullough: ithamar should have the gumstix board now. I have send it to him some while ago
[17:44:44] <umccullough> ok
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[17:44:57] <umccullough> one sata isn't enough for development?
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[17:45:31] <PulkoMandy|2> at this point, we only need the serial debug, really
[17:45:55] <OmniMancer> it doesn't matter if they have expandable ram if they don't exist and people don't have them to use
[17:45:58] <puckipedia> the cubieboard has serial, and u-boot
[17:46:08] <OmniMancer> its an A10/20
[17:46:15] <OmniMancer> it has all the necessary things
[17:46:22] <PulkoMandy|2> yes, cubieboard looks like a good choice
[17:47:05] <PulkoMandy|2> argh
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[17:47:16] <PulkoMandy|2> USB KDL when running recover is all I needed...
[17:48:30] <puckipedia> No continue, I presume?
[17:49:32] <Premislaus> What performance has Cubieboard in video transcoding, h264 and h265 (hd movies will occupy less space)?
[17:49:51] <puckipedia> Premislaus: Doesn't matter, it has serial and a screen
[17:49:56] <PulkoMandy|2> Premislaus: they have proprietary drivers for accelerating this
[17:50:08] <PulkoMandy|2> and open source reverse engineering making very good progress
[17:50:49] <PulkoMandy|2> also, there's a lot of very cheap allwiner-a10 based hardware as pc-on-a-stick with hdmi output
[17:51:08] <PulkoMandy|2> I even have one of these, but there's no serial port, so I can't really use it for kernel hacking
[17:52:20] <Premislaus> Personally, I think ARM in its present form does not make any sense. Because they do not offer this what we have with x86 desktop. Even the cheapest motherboard with Atom has more capabilities.
[17:53:08] <PulkoMandy|2> Premislaus: http://utilite-computer.com/web/home
[17:53:28] <PulkoMandy|2> there are quite good quad-core ARM stuff as well
[17:53:48] <PulkoMandy|2> but, you have to search in the same price range as equivalent intel stuff
[17:54:12] <PulkoMandy|2> don't expect a $30 computer, even ARM based, to match ATOM stuff that costs $200
[17:54:13] <OmniMancer> yes no reason to compare a 60 dollar arm computer to an x86 one
[17:54:43] <umccullough> well, i own a few atom-based small-form-factor machines i bought for $85-90/ea
[17:54:46] <umccullough> but no ram
[17:55:04] <umccullough> with ram + disks, i use them to run freenas
[17:55:23] <umccullough> but..
[17:55:28] <umccullough> they aren't that speedy :(
[17:55:49] <umccullough> i tried to use ZFS on them, and it was pretty bad
[17:56:34] <PulkoMandy|2> yes, $30 ATOM based computer don't do much better than the ARM counterparts either
[17:58:40] <umccullough> and amusingly, the intel chipset they included with it uses more power, and generates more heat than the atom CPU itself
[17:59:07] <umccullough> so, even if the atom itself is efficient, that's only half the story ;)
[17:59:28] <OmniMancer> atleast with arm SoCs you can tell if the thing is power hungry or not
[18:01:07] <Premislaus> https://soekris.com/
[18:02:04] <Premislaus> More expensive, but good for the NAS.
[18:03:07] <Premislaus> There are also micro ATX with Celereon 847 (Sandy Bridge).
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[18:04:07] <Premislaus> 100$ in Poland
[18:05:10] <Premislaus> and mini-itx
[18:07:47] <MrPoxipol> trzy banie Premislus kurde
[18:07:49] <MrPoxipol> :P
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[18:37:01] <Premislaus> !haiku
[18:37:01] <epigraph> Yellow titlebars
[18:37:02] <epigraph> dot the workspaces. See my
[18:37:03] <epigraph> productivity!
[18:37:04] <epigraph> - Brent P. Newhall
[18:38:01] <puckipedia> !haiku
[18:38:01] <epigraph> Buy some freaking stock
[18:38:02] <epigraph> All you stupid investors
[18:38:03] <epigraph> Make lots of money
[18:38:04] <epigraph> - anonymous
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[20:02:45] <Premislaus> Hmm Haiku support software raid?
[20:03:19] <umccullough> good question, i don't think so though
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[21:59:41] <gordonjcp> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Funicular-Railway-/131106658086 <- we could have a Haiku Railway
[21:59:50] <gordonjcp> did you know you can buy complete trains on eBay
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[22:13:54] <umccullough> i'd rather own this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdQ-2mnODCo
[22:15:13] <puckipedia> Lol: Item condition:Used
[22:15:13] <puckipedia> “In good condition as it's never used in heavy snow conditions.”
[22:15:34] <umccullough> the property in that video is for sale ~ $3.5M
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[22:16:35] <puckipedia> But the best thing is the money back guarantee
[22:16:45] <puckipedia> ¨We guarantee you get the item you ordered or your money back¨
[22:18:10] <umccullough> does it come with the tunnel?
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[22:18:29] <AlienSoldier> i once investigated buying a mini train to carry my wood
[22:18:38] * umccullough logs into ebay to ask
[22:18:44] <AlienSoldier> steam powered
[22:20:39] <umccullough> question submitted :)
[22:37:42] <umccullough> AlienSoldier, a wood burning steam engine? :)
[22:37:56] <AlienSoldier> yes
[22:37:59] <AlienSoldier> or coal
[22:38:00] * umccullough wonders if it would make it back with any wood left
[22:38:50] <umccullough> would be fun - but laying the track seems like it would be a huge project
[22:39:07] <AlienSoldier> yes, the track is what stopped me
[22:39:14] <puckipedia> You could use it as a portable barbeque
[22:41:18] <AlienSoldier> if i was to make an eco tourist attraction it would be a different calculation
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top

   January 31, 2014  
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