January 1, 2014 
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January 1, 2014 [00:00:08] <puckipedia> Happy new year![00:02:10] <umccullough> yeah, gimme another 9 hours :P[00:10:32] *** gramas has joined #haiku[00:11:11] <gramas> Happy New year![00:12:31] <HAIKU-Buildbot_> build #2072 of x86-Linux64-host is complete: Failure [failed [x86]] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-Linux64-host/builds/2072 blamelist: Alexander von Gluck IV <kallisti5 at unixzen dot com>[00:12:54] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[00:13:21] *** epigraph has quit IRC[00:14:18] *** umccullough has quit IRC[00:14:18] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[00:21:55] <Not-006> [haikuports] scottmc pushed 2 commits to master [+2/-0/±0] https://bitbucket.org/haikuports/haikuports/commits/[00:21:59] <Not-006> [haikuports] tgkokk 92677f7 - Added MasterPiece recipe and patch[00:22:02] <Not-006> [haikuports] scottmc 65fda89 - Merged in tgkokk/haikuports/masterpiece (pull request #104) Added MasterPiece recipe and patch[00:29:35] *** mikedld has quit IRC[00:31:08] <Mrowqa> it was great midnight ;) btw puckipedia are you live in GMT+1?[00:31:08] <Mrowqa> and of course - Happy New Year! :)[00:31:58] <NumberNoid> 21 mins to go ere[00:32:02] <NumberNoid> and happy new year :P~[00:33:57] <puckipedia> Mrowqa: Of course![00:35:25] *** _3dEyes has joined #haiku[00:36:06] <Mrowqa> puckipedia: so I am ;) where are you from? Germany?[00:37:03] <puckipedia> The Netherlands[00:41:26] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[00:41:28] <Premislaus> hello[00:41:32] <Mrowqa> hi[00:41:34] <Premislaus> Happy New Year![00:41:55] <Mrowqa> puckipedia: I'm from Poland ;)[00:44:29] *** bosii has joined #haiku[00:48:42] *** Muzer has joined #haiku[00:56:02] *** bosii has quit IRC[01:00:17] *** puckipedia has quit IRC[01:06:13] *** Bloodmanovski has joined #haiku[01:10:33] <FreemanLou> How can do I checkout svn on Haiku? It says that cant locate SVN/Core.pm then fails to get packages[01:10:49] <umccullough> hm?[01:11:01] <FreemanLou> I tried git svn[01:11:10] <NumberNoid> yay[01:11:11] <umccullough> why not just install subversion?[01:11:14] <NumberNoid> 11 mins into the year[01:11:18] *** stargater has joined #haiku[01:11:48] <FreemanLou> umccullough, I looked for svn not subversion :)[01:11:52] <umccullough> ;)[01:12:12] <umccullough> in fact, i thought it came preinstalled on the nightlies[01:12:21] <umccullough> but maybe we removed it after we switched to git[01:12:21] <johndrinkwater> happy new years :)[01:12:30] <FreemanLou> nope[01:12:37] <umccullough> it should be in haikudepot i think[01:12:39] <mmadia> iirc, it was removed for size constraints prior to PM.[01:12:43] <FreemanLou> yeah found it[01:13:31] <stargater> happy new year[01:13:43] <umccullough> it's only ~4pm here :([01:14:21] <Mrowqa> hm, ~1 after midnight here ;)[01:14:30] <alpha123> umccullough: US west coast?[01:14:54] <umccullough> yep[01:15:00] <stargater> 1:14 here in germany[01:15:01] <Mrowqa> gtg, i need some sleep ;)[01:15:09] <stargater> :-)[01:15:47] *** Mrowqa has left #haiku[01:16:13] <_3dEyes> 11:15am :P[01:24:36] *** Admixior has quit IRC[01:30:52] *** _3dEyes has quit IRC[01:37:53] *** bosii has joined #haiku[01:39:57] *** Admixior has joined #haiku[01:43:45] *** noryb009 has joined #haiku[01:45:03] <Admixior> Happy new year[01:45:05] <Admixior> :p[01:45:17] *** Premislaus has quit IRC[01:46:13] *** jua__ has quit IRC[01:48:04] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[01:52:57] *** gramas has quit IRC[01:59:03] *** soakbot has quit IRC[01:59:13] *** soakbot has joined #haiku[02:00:53] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[02:06:56] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[02:07:17] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[02:11:48] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[02:13:21] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[02:21:48] *** Vidiot_X has joined #haiku[02:23:49] *** stargater has quit IRC[02:25:39] *** useragent has joined #haiku[02:28:06] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[02:28:19] <HAIKU-Buildbot_> build #652 of x86-Linux-host is complete: Failure [failed [x86_gcc2]] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-Linux-host/builds/652 blamelist: Alexander von Gluck IV <kallisti5 at unixzen dot com>[02:35:34] *** epigraph has quit IRC[02:39:49] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[02:43:39] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[02:44:44] *** arti__ has joined #haiku[02:47:02] *** arti has quit IRC[02:55:18] *** bosii has quit IRC[02:57:28] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[03:02:34] *** juser has joined #haiku[03:04:10] *** Luko has joined #haiku[03:04:22] *** hackkitten has joined #haiku[03:05:03] *** Luko has quit IRC[03:05:13] *** Luko has joined #haiku[03:06:27] *** Miyu has quit IRC[03:06:41] *** Luko has quit IRC[03:07:50] *** Luko has joined #haiku[03:11:18] *** Luko has quit IRC[03:12:09] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[03:13:00] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:14:00] <HAIKU-Buildbot_> build #2073 of x86-Linux64-host is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-Linux64-host/builds/2073[03:14:57] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[03:16:29] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[03:18:45] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[03:40:12] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[03:44:39] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[03:45:04] <mmu_man> Happy GNU year![03:48:48] *** NumberNoid has quit IRC[03:49:10] *** NumberNoid has joined #haiku[03:51:49] *** Xenmen has quit IRC[04:19:49] <Admixior> mmu_man: Happy MIT year! :p[04:22:38] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[04:27:31] *** NegrO_ has joined #haiku[04:28:22] *** epigraph has quit IRC[04:31:49] *** Negr0_ has quit IRC[04:32:35] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[04:38:35] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[04:41:40] *** Miyu has joined #haiku[04:41:41] *** hackkitten has quit IRC[04:48:00] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[04:49:25] *** NumberNoid has quit IRC[04:56:44] *** CrazyIvan_ has joined #haiku[04:57:02] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[04:57:17] *** CrazyIvan_ has quit IRC[05:00:19] *** CrazyIvan has quit IRC[05:03:17] *** Admixior has quit IRC[05:14:17] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[05:14:27] *** kcj has quit IRC[05:15:49] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[05:32:42] *** Guest2961 has quit IRC[05:43:26] *** johann_ has quit IRC[05:44:41] *** johann_ has joined #haiku[05:45:12] *** hackkitten has joined #haiku[05:46:56] *** Miyu has quit IRC[05:47:58] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[06:08:11] *** noryb009 has left #haiku[06:13:20] <jstressman> Happy New Year! (from EST time zone) ^_^[06:26:49] *** FreemanLou has quit IRC[06:35:51] *** JoFo has quit IRC[06:37:34] *** kcj has joined #haiku[06:38:35] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[06:39:28] <HAIKU-Buildbot_> build #653 of x86-Linux-host is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-Linux-host/builds/653[06:41:48] *** hackkitten has quit IRC[06:44:38] *** hackkitten has joined #haiku[06:54:39] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[07:20:39] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC[07:33:41] *** NegrO_ has quit IRC[07:39:34] *** hub has joined #haiku[07:55:35] *** Miyu has joined #haiku[07:56:17] *** hackkitten has quit IRC[07:57:48] *** hub has joined #haiku[07:58:25] *** hub is now known as Guest29524[08:00:45] *** Luko has joined #haiku[08:00:50] *** Bryanstein has quit IRC[08:04:55] *** Guest29524 has quit IRC[08:08:00] *** Bryanstein has joined #haiku[08:10:35] *** Luko has quit IRC[08:14:16] *** Bryanstein has quit IRC[08:14:22] *** hub_ has joined #haiku[08:18:09] *** Bloodmanovski has quit IRC[08:22:14] *** Richie has joined #haiku[08:24:31] *** Bryanstein has joined #haiku[08:26:04] *** alvin_ has joined #haiku[08:26:51] *** hackkitten has joined #haiku[08:28:15] *** Miyu has quit IRC[08:28:48] *** hub_ has quit IRC[08:30:40] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[08:35:34] *** Sir_Designer_ has joined #haiku[08:54:32] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[08:57:07] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[09:18:13] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:34:13] *** Vidiot_X has quit IRC[09:38:40] *** Richie has quit IRC[09:43:23] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[09:50:42] *** Mrowqa has joined #haiku[09:53:21] *** Sir_Designer_ has quit IRC[10:24:21] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[10:32:04] *** fhein has joined #haiku[10:48:38] *** tqh2 has joined #haiku[10:49:49] *** tqh has quit IRC[10:50:35] *** jua_ has joined #haiku[10:57:01] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[10:57:45] *** JoFo has joined #haiku[11:01:11] *** Nozy has quit IRC[11:03:59] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[11:04:17] *** vongrippen has quit IRC[11:04:23] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[11:05:48] *** humdinger has quit IRC[11:10:11] *** vongrippen has joined #haiku[11:13:40] *** freedomrun has joined #haiku[11:18:17] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[11:20:38] *** puckipedia has joined #haiku[11:25:05] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[11:31:18] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[11:38:35] *** kcj has quit IRC[11:38:39] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[11:47:33] *** hub has joined #haiku[11:47:57] *** hub is now known as Guest73828[11:48:04] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[11:55:03] *** gramas has joined #haiku[11:58:41] *** Luko has joined #haiku[12:05:17] *** Guest73828 has quit IRC[12:22:38] *** Sue has quit IRC[12:31:07] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[12:32:42] *** Luko has quit IRC[12:35:12] *** Sue has joined #haiku[12:35:12] *** Sue has joined #haiku[12:38:36] *** useragent has quit IRC[12:38:56] *** juser has quit IRC[12:45:08] <Mrowqa> where can I find source of MediaPlayer?[12:49:17] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[12:49:50] <puckipedia> http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/apps/mediaplayer[12:50:08] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[12:50:14] <Mrowqa> thanks[12:50:56] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[12:51:47] *** Liknus has joined #haiku[12:52:06] <Liknus> Hi all![12:52:07] <gcibot> Liknus, hey![12:52:15] <Mrowqa> hi! :)[12:52:20] <Liknus> Good new year to everybody[12:52:35] <Liknus> or better, happy new year![12:53:28] <Liknus> This is the first time I'm using Haiku OS, and it is pretty much amazing! = )[12:54:09] <Liknus> Thanks to everybody who's developing it and all the applications (both developing and porting)[12:58:38] <Liknus> May I ask you if haiku-it IRC Channel is just temporarily down or definitively instead?[13:01:42] <Begasus> ok, don't now what the timeframe is when creating a gcc4 package with haikuporter, but from the download 'till now its almost 2 hours and it's still "pupulating the package" ...[13:03:27] <puckipedia> Which package?[13:03:38] <Begasus> 'source package'[13:03:47] <Begasus> for gcc4[13:03:48] <puckipedia> Which source package?[13:04:17] <puckipedia> Actually, probably it's gcc/binutils[13:04:28] <Begasus> binutils is already done[13:04:34] <puckipedia> then it's gcc[13:04:43] <Begasus> yep[13:04:44] <puckipedia> It's going to take a while probably[13:05:00] <Begasus> I know it's huge, but still seems a long time to me ;)[13:05:13] <puckipedia> GCC is quite big, and BFS isn't optimised for small files iirc[13:05:18] <Begasus> also, does anyone notice any lag on Tracker?[13:05:26] <Begasus> ok thanks puckipedia :)[13:06:03] <Begasus> it's probably related to the stuff running in the background with haikuporter also ...[13:09:30] <Liknus> May I even ask you if it is possible to get wifi working with the b43legacy driver? 'Cause by following the procedure on the haiku-os.org guide my wifi is not working yet! : )[13:10:09] *** louisdem has joined #haiku[13:10:55] <Begasus> think it heard me puckipedia ;) compiler is doing it's checks now :)[13:17:34] *** louisdem has quit IRC[13:19:01] *** snawster has joined #haiku[13:21:01] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[13:33:16] *** jua_ has quit IRC[13:33:26] *** puckipedia has quit IRC[13:33:42] *** jua_ has joined #haiku[13:42:03] *** nighty^ has joined #haiku[13:44:08] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[13:46:37] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:49:40] *** MrPoxipol has joined #haiku[13:50:09] *** bosii has joined #haiku[13:51:43] *** NumberNoid has joined #haiku[13:52:11] *** puckipedia has joined #haiku[13:54:51] *** Liknus has quit IRC[14:02:13] *** Admixior has joined #haiku[14:08:21] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[14:08:52] *** idefix_gromit has quit IRC[14:17:59] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[14:18:10] *** bosii has quit IRC[14:21:03] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[14:22:53] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[14:25:57] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[14:36:54] *** rdmr has quit IRC[14:42:40] <Mrowqa> how to get path to development headers in .recipe file?[14:42:58] <Admixior> $includeDir[14:43:03] <Admixior> :)[14:43:12] <Mrowqa> it doesn't work, i tried[14:45:51] <Admixior> what is the problem?[14:46:00] <Mrowqa> $includeDir point to /packages/..., but the headers, which i need isn't there; it's in /boot/home/config/develop/headers/[14:46:59] <Mrowqa> i don't want it to create devel package, i need variable to get headers of existing dependencies[14:49:47] <Mrowqa> runConfigure doesn't work; configure script crashes when i'm trying use runConfigure[14:50:30] <Admixior> try to use includedir=`finddir B_COMMON_DIRECTORY`/include[14:50:42] <Admixior> or something similar :)[14:51:39] <Mrowqa> B_COMMON_DIRECTORY is $prefix afair[14:51:50] <Mrowqa> i tried use it[14:53:04] <Mrowqa> i need $includeDir of dependency, not the building object[14:58:28] *** NumberNoid has quit IRC[15:03:06] *** subcritical has joined #haiku[15:06:26] *** MrPoxipol has quit IRC[15:08:35] *** humdinger has quit IRC[15:10:08] *** nighty^ has quit IRC[15:15:10] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[15:18:47] *** Sir_Designer_ has joined #haiku[15:22:32] <subcritical> it's usable the haiku port of raspberry pi?[15:27:59] <luroh> subcritical: no, only x86 and x86_64[15:29:21] <subcritical> how is that port?[15:29:36] <subcritical> is in advanced state?[15:30:03] <puckipedia> IIRC, it doesn't build (due to PM)[15:30:14] <puckipedia> Before that it just got to the boot screen[15:30:41] <luroh> other than that, i'm not sure it's that far along, but you'd have to ask kallisti5 for details[15:33:28] <subcritical> i have one[15:33:33] <subcritical> now i'm in pi[15:33:57] <subcritical> is a great comunity[15:34:04] <subcritical> without much oses[15:34:19] <subcritical> is slow machine but seems ok[15:34:21] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[15:36:10] <luroh> yeah, it's basically various debian respins, as far as i understand[15:36:31] <puckipedia> luroh: That's the official os[15:37:08] <puckipedia> luroh: You can install a variant of Arch Linux, and RISC OS and plan 9[15:37:22] <luroh> ah ok, didn't know that[15:38:24] <luroh> i wouldn't be surprised if they released a new model this year[15:43:51] <Mrowqa> great... i made package which makes haiku not responsible during activation ...[15:46:18] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[15:50:50] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[15:51:30] *** alvin_ has quit IRC[15:51:53] *** noryb009 has joined #haiku[15:57:45] *** FreemanLou has joined #haiku[16:09:11] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[16:15:49] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[16:19:27] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[16:24:41] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[16:40:20] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[16:52:22] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[16:56:01] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[16:57:53] *** johndrinkwater has quit IRC[17:00:07] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[17:15:03] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[17:15:17] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[17:16:56] *** kcj has joined #haiku[17:19:35] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[17:21:07] *** Negr0_ has joined #haiku[17:22:15] *** Sir_Designer_ has quit IRC[17:28:41] *** Barrett has quit IRC[17:42:04] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[17:43:23] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[17:58:32] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[18:13:01] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[18:17:37] <humdinger> hey luroh. Did a rebuild that does boot...[18:18:06] <humdinger> luroh: was a bit strange, because my first jam try failed...[18:27:27] *** freedomrun has quit IRC[18:29:15] *** NumberNoid has joined #haiku[18:33:07] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[18:39:56] <irker-373> haiku.master: humdinger * hrev46630 [2 commits] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=080cf3b+%5Ed068e94[18:39:56] <irker-373> 047dc33: Improved sniffer rule of I-O-M files.[18:39:57] <irker-373> 080cf3b: Corrected typo in overwrite alert.[18:41:11] *** kcj has quit IRC[18:42:03] *** freedomrun has joined #haiku[18:46:31] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[18:47:12] *** johndrinkwater has joined #haiku[18:55:39] <irker-373> haiku.master: humdinger * hrev46631 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=f1227e7+%5E080cf3b[18:55:40] <irker-373> f1227e7: Updated WebPositiveBookmarks optional package[19:05:07] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[19:07:22] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[19:09:09] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[19:15:23] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[19:15:41] *** DaniG__ has joined #haiku[19:18:40] *** bombuzal has quit IRC[19:20:33] <luroh> humdinger: strange indeed... were you cross-compiling or building from haiku?[19:21:48] *** PasNox has quit IRC[19:28:25] <humdinger> luroh: cross compiling. Haven't Haiku installed on the desktop in the basement. Also, under Haiku built images have still issues with SMP, I think.[19:29:54] <luroh> yeah, i was just curious if you had run into any SMP issues while building on Haiku (which you didn't, and weren't)[19:31:01] <irker-373> haiku.master: humdinger * hrev46632 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=482f0f7+%5Ef1227e7[19:31:01] <irker-373> 482f0f7: Corrected type from hrev46630. Sorry...[19:32:43] <humdinger> *typo... ironically[19:33:03] <luroh> :p[19:37:06] <puckipedia> lol, didn't notice[19:37:46] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[19:38:17] <Mrowqa> how to assign CID to me on coverity?[19:39:16] <PulkoMandy> we don't bother with that usually[19:39:45] <Mrowqa> so I should only send a patch to tracker, shouldn't I?[19:39:51] <PulkoMandy> they are usually fast enough to solve, and there isn't much people looking at them so you don't really risk a conflict[19:40:02] <PulkoMandy> yes, and add a comment to the CID to point there[19:41:13] <Mrowqa> how to add this comment? i cannot click "Apply" in Triage subwindow[19:43:58] <Mrowqa> what are username and password for registration on Trac?[19:45:24] *** nighty^ has joined #haiku[19:54:27] *** me-1 has joined #haiku[19:55:00] <me-1> hi....is it true Haiku does not have PATA support[19:55:56] <AlienSoldier> me-1 it have ide driver and pata driver[19:56:16] <AlienSoldier> but one of them was to be removed because of redundancy i think[19:57:00] <me-1> basically I am trying to do... https://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/can_i_install_haiku_pentium_iii_256_mb_ram#comment-27784[19:58:00] <me-1> can I install it from USB flash..?[20:00:12] *** johann_ is now known as myrkraverk[20:00:19] *** myrkraverk has quit IRC[20:00:20] *** myrkraverk has joined #haiku[20:00:21] <humdinger> me-1: Installing from USB-stick is the normal procedure, I'd say.[20:00:35] <humdinger> me-1: only, if your old equipment is able to boot from one...?[20:01:56] <me-1> humdinger, I can use newer PC to install and then put the HD back to older one if that is posible[20:02:06] <AlienSoldier> yes[20:02:37] <me-1> I do this with Linux distros[20:02:54] <AlienSoldier> i still only have IDE HD myself[20:03:16] <me-1> so IDE HD works..?[20:03:23] <AlienSoldier> for me yes[20:03:35] <AlienSoldier> some older IDE HD might have problem[20:04:11] <AlienSoldier> also i never looked if they can reach their maximum DMA speed, i will test that one day.[20:04:25] <AlienSoldier> It sure is not just PIO speed[20:04:46] <me-1> I thought Haiku was a good solution for old hardware but with lack of IDE support it is not good[20:05:31] <AlienSoldier> so far ALL my IDE HD work, and i have quite old one[20:05:58] <me-1> then its fine[20:06:31] <me-1> I want to use Haiku on bare metal rathar than Virtualbox[20:06:45] <AlienSoldier> that is what i do[20:07:11] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[20:07:34] <me-1> what about the support for IDE CD rom[20:07:45] <PulkoMandy> never had a problem with IDE here[20:07:56] <AlienSoldier> work also, you need to find other reasons not to install it :P[20:08:07] <PulkoMandy> I have a system that's a bit newer than yours (2003, Athlon XP based) and as far as Ican tell it works well[20:08:58] <AlienSoldier> i remember gotting a bit of trouble with the CD player app, but that was probably the CD app causingthe problem, being ages i did not test if stability improved on the CD playing front.[20:09:55] <me-1> so why did the guy on haiku forums (link in my first post) asked me to install older version of haiku because of lack of IDE and PATA support...?[20:10:59] <AlienSoldier> probably a Microsoft operative :P[20:11:19] <me-1> :)[20:11:55] <me-1> an Apple spy[20:12:18] <alpha123> A linux agent?[20:12:19] *** humdinger has quit IRC[20:12:19] *** DKnoto has joined #haiku[20:12:40] <AlienSoldier> an amiga mole[20:12:59] <me-1> he was seen in FreeBSD camps[20:13:08] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[20:14:08] <alpha123> A member of a Plan9 secret society.[20:14:52] <me-1> trained from Minix3[20:15:48] *** idefix_gromit has quit IRC[20:16:53] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[20:17:21] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[20:18:07] <mmadia> https://www.haiku-os.org/news/2014-01-01_happy_contract_extensions[20:18:15] *** mmadia has quit IRC[20:19:42] <alpha123> yay![20:19:45] *** me-1 has quit IRC[20:20:04] *** tgkokk has quit IRC[20:20:23] *** tgkokk has joined #haiku[20:25:43] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[20:25:52] <AlienSoldier> double yay! i guess that mean that in around 3 wek all the sheduler work will be merged[20:25:58] <AlienSoldier> *weeks[20:29:03] *** DKnoto has quit IRC[20:48:17] *** hamishm__ has joined #haiku[20:52:33] *** planktonizer has joined #haiku[20:53:39] *** [lewellyn] has joined #haiku[20:53:57] *** gordonjc1 has joined #haiku[20:54:21] *** jrabbit_ has joined #haiku[20:56:21] *** HAIKU-Buildbot has joined #haiku[20:58:19] *** plankton1zer has quit IRC[20:58:20] *** HAIKU-Buildbot_ has quit IRC[20:58:20] *** hamishm has quit IRC[20:58:29] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[20:58:32] *** gordonjcp has quit IRC[20:58:33] *** Not-006 has quit IRC[20:58:33] *** lewellyn has quit IRC[20:59:02] *** noryb009 has left #haiku[21:01:36] *** [Beta] has joined #haiku[21:01:37] *** tjader_ has joined #haiku[21:03:41] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[21:03:41] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[21:03:54] *** JoFo has quit IRC[21:04:18] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[21:04:19] *** GeekShadow has quit IRC[21:04:19] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[21:04:39] *** lewellyn has joined #haiku[21:05:26] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[21:05:28] *** TronDD has joined #haiku[21:05:41] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[21:05:52] *** hamishm__ has quit IRC[21:06:01] *** hamishm has joined #haiku[21:08:06] *** AmineKhaldi__ has joined #haiku[21:08:07] *** Luigi021 has joined #haiku[21:08:38] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[21:09:04] *** jrabbit_ has quit IRC[21:09:04] *** [lewellyn] has quit IRC[21:09:06] *** johndrinkwater has quit IRC[21:09:06] *** subcritical has quit IRC[21:09:12] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[21:09:13] *** AmineKhaldi has quit IRC[21:09:14] *** GeekShad1w has quit IRC[21:09:20] *** tjader has quit IRC[21:09:21] *** Luigi021 is now known as Beretta021[21:09:21] *** tjader_ is now known as tjader[21:09:41] *** subcritical has joined #haiku[21:09:51] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[21:12:07] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[21:14:30] *** valeriusL has quit IRC[21:19:29] *** JoFo has joined #haiku[21:20:15] *** lewellyn has quit IRC[21:20:29] *** lewellyn has joined #haiku[21:20:49] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[21:22:54] *** JoFo has quit IRC[21:25:24] *** JoFo has joined #haiku[21:26:15] *** valeriusL has joined #haiku[21:26:57] *** noryb009 has joined #haiku[21:27:03] *** axeld has joined #haiku[21:27:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[21:30:23] *** tqh2 has quit IRC[21:32:15] *** lewellyn has quit IRC[21:33:19] *** lewellyn has joined #haiku[21:34:51] *** [Beta] has quit IRC[21:43:46] *** arti__ has quit IRC[21:44:45] *** arti__ has joined #haiku[21:47:00] *** yosafbridge has quit IRC[21:47:08] *** noryb009 has left #haiku[21:55:12] *** yosafbridge has joined #haiku[22:03:28] *** fhein has quit IRC[22:12:36] <m0ns0on> Hello[22:12:51] <m0ns0on> Is haikuware the main software repository?[22:12:51] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[22:15:13] <luroh> m0ns0on: no, that would be haikuports[22:15:43] <luroh> http://haikuports.org[22:15:48] *** gordonjc1 is now known as gordonjcp[22:18:20] <m0ns0on> luroh: Ok[22:18:26] <m0ns0on> luroh: But that's not self contained.[22:18:37] <m0ns0on> luroh: But it'll probably be better after I install python :)[22:19:04] <PulkoMandy> there's an app named HaikuDepot in the latest nightlies[22:19:10] <PulkoMandy> or the command-line pkgman[22:19:22] <PulkoMandy> not all the packages from haikuports are there, yet[22:19:27] <PulkoMandy> but we're working on it[22:19:47] <PulkoMandy> on the alpha, that won't work, so your best choices are an older version of haikuporter, or haikuware[22:19:57] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[22:22:12] <m0ns0on> oki[22:22:20] <m0ns0on> ok[22:22:25] <m0ns0on> How far is the next release?[22:22:47] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[22:22:47] <m0ns0on> Many people probably ask :)[22:23:26] <m0ns0on> Also, I'm still confused with all this GCC2.95 and GCC4.0 stuff.[22:23:31] <m0ns0on> Getting scitzo :D[22:23:50] <m0ns0on> As I see alot of software requiring GCC4[22:23:59] <m0ns0on> But Alpha 4.1 is still 2.5[22:24:01] <m0ns0on> 2.95[22:24:14] <umccullough> it's both[22:24:24] <m0ns0on> ok[22:24:28] <m0ns0on> So they coexist?[22:24:36] <m0ns0on> I can't find GCC4 anywhere on the default install.[22:24:40] <umccullough> it's there[22:24:42] <m0ns0on> ok[22:24:55] <umccullough> if you're on alpha4, just use setgcc gcc4 from a terminal to switch[22:25:09] <umccullough> if you're on a recent nightly, things have changed a bit[22:25:38] <umccullough> the problem is - a lot of software packaged on haikuware doesn't necessarily understand a hybrid version of haiku[22:25:52] <m0ns0on> oki[22:26:08] <m0ns0on> sure because it's really a beos site.[22:26:15] <umccullough> well...[22:26:19] <m0ns0on> or it's gone scitzo :D[22:26:30] <umccullough> it's really a haiku site that provides a lot of old broken beos software[22:27:14] <m0ns0on> I think a lot of interested devs and other people have forgot about Haiku for a while. Because of the looong time between each release.[22:27:16] <umccullough> but a lot of the people who upload crappy ports of games and stuff didn't really take any care to package them properly for a gcc2h build of haiku[22:27:17] <m0ns0on> I know I have.[22:27:23] <m0ns0on> But it'll improve :)[22:27:34] <m0ns0on> Sure.[22:27:59] <umccullough> now that we have a somewhat more intelligent packaging solution, i hope that will become a smaller problem[22:28:01] <m0ns0on> But I guess it's like the wild west at the moment.[22:28:15] <m0ns0on> I was never interested in packaging for Haiku.[22:28:23] <m0ns0on> But it's cool for system requirements.[22:28:29] <m0ns0on> And upgrading the base system.[22:28:35] <umccullough> it's ridiculous in this day and age not to have *some* packaging option[22:28:43] <m0ns0on> Well[22:28:49] <umccullough> unzipping a zipfile to /boot and hoping it doesn't destroy your system is crazy[22:28:55] <m0ns0on> Well, why to boot[22:28:59] <m0ns0on> Why not just make a folder?[22:29:04] <m0ns0on> That's the simplest way.[22:29:07] <umccullough> because of libs and dependencies[22:29:12] <umccullough> that have to go somewhere[22:29:16] <PulkoMandy> m0ns0on: did you try our package system yet.[22:29:28] <m0ns0on> PulkoMandy: No, because it's not included on the alpha :)[22:29:33] <PulkoMandy> it's even simpler, now you just drop the package in a folder, you don't even have to extract it anymore[22:29:34] <m0ns0on> PulkoMandy: Just installed this one fresh.[22:29:41] <PulkoMandy> and to uninstall, you just move it away from there[22:29:46] <m0ns0on> Cool! :)[22:29:54] <umccullough> yeah, the hpkg concept is pretty simple for the end user[22:29:58] <PulkoMandy> it's not anything like the way it's done on your typical linux system[22:29:59] <umccullough> a little more complicated for developres[22:30:23] <PulkoMandy> well, doing things right is always more complicated than hacking stuff around for developers[22:30:26] <m0ns0on> I always liked how Amiga did software installation. And on Linux I keep the system in it's unix folders, and I compile and install new software in self contained folders in a "Programs" folder...[22:31:07] <m0ns0on> Libs should be handled by the devs.[22:31:13] <m0ns0on> Include what's required[22:31:22] <m0ns0on> Search for what should be on the system[22:31:29] <umccullough> eh, now you just tell the packaging system what libs you need, and it takes care of it[22:31:35] <puckipedia> That's exactly what the PM does![22:31:55] <m0ns0on> Ok, but do you need to recide on the official servers? Is there a central repo?[22:31:59] <m0ns0on> Or do you have something like PPA[22:32:13] <puckipedia> Haikuporter is hosted on bitbucket, bitbucket.org/haikuports/haikuporter iirc[22:32:33] <m0ns0on> Yes but could I host my binaries on my own server?[22:32:40] <umccullough> absolutely[22:32:43] <m0ns0on> Ah cool.[22:32:53] <umccullough> in fact, you don't even need a repository[22:32:55] <m0ns0on> My biggest objections with pm's is when they are centralized.[22:32:57] <puckipedia> Haikuporter does not contain sources[22:33:00] <umccullough> you can just download a .hkpg and put it where you want[22:33:01] <m0ns0on> Ah cool.[22:33:05] <m0ns0on> Awesome :)[22:33:16] <puckipedia> Haikuports contains a repo with instructions on how to get/build source to a hpkg[22:33:16] <m0ns0on> In use, it's a bit like dmg then.[22:33:24] <m0ns0on> Even though it's different, technically.[22:33:33] <umccullough> but a repository makes it easy to find dependencies and automatically install them, etc.[22:33:34] <m0ns0on> Ah cool.[22:33:38] <m0ns0on> Sure.[22:33:43] <umccullough> and you can add more repositories[22:33:59] <m0ns0on> That's what I like to hear :D[22:34:09] <m0ns0on> Any idea when Haiku is Beta 1?[22:34:13] <umccullough> no clue[22:34:16] <m0ns0on> Or are you going for another alpha?[22:35:18] <puckipedia> (The joke is that Haiku releases nightly)[22:35:19] <m0ns0on> The roadmap page looks like the organization just fell through the floor :D[22:35:23] <m0ns0on> Haha.[22:35:32] <m0ns0on> Well, so does other less respected projects! :)[22:35:36] <m0ns0on> Don't fall into the trap![22:37:30] <m0ns0on> Anyone work on decors?[22:37:36] <m0ns0on> I remember BeOS had an AmigaOS decor.[22:38:10] <puckipedia> That was BeOS[22:38:26] <puckipedia> Haiku has everything rewritten, and afaik there's no easy theming yet[22:38:32] <umccullough> with font-sensitivity (and scalable UIs), decors start to become a bit more complicated now[22:38:50] <puckipedia> It may be cool to have decors as add-ons[22:38:54] <m0ns0on> Oh, because it seems to have a GUI for choosing decors.[22:39:06] <m0ns0on> And a command line tool as well.[22:39:13] <umccullough> and there's two distinct parts - there's the window decoration, and there's the control look[22:39:56] <m0ns0on> Sure.[22:40:04] <m0ns0on> Not a biggie really.[22:40:32] <umccullough> at some point, there were some improvements to the "R5" decor to make it look more like beos :P[22:40:45] <m0ns0on> Haha[22:40:46] <m0ns0on> :)[22:40:48] <puckipedia> I would like that, including aliased fonts[22:40:55] <umccullough> heh[22:40:56] <m0ns0on> Sure[22:41:08] <m0ns0on> To each his own. That's why the GUI should be configurable :)[22:41:33] <m0ns0on> Just looking forward to the day when Haiku finally is ready enough to become a stationary target for devs.[22:41:39] <umccullough> there's something to be said for keeping the internals simple and the look-and-feel consistent across the userbase too ;)[22:41:44] <m0ns0on> For somebody to say officially: "Now devs, you have a target!"[22:41:48] <puckipedia> I like retro stuff very much[22:42:04] <m0ns0on> umccullough: Sure, as long as it fits your workflow.[22:42:10] <puckipedia> Well, the API is quite stable (It's almost BeOS)[22:42:24] <m0ns0on> umccullough: And white colors tears my eyes to shreds when working whole days the whole week.[22:42:33] <umccullough> heh[22:42:39] <umccullough> colors are one thing[22:42:49] <umccullough> and that should be very easy to customize[22:43:00] <m0ns0on> The only must for me on Linux desktops are that I can have a negative UI, for my eyes :)[22:43:27] <m0ns0on> Also, would be cool to be able to force windows to stay on the desktop, and not move offscreen.[22:43:31] <m0ns0on> Also an Amiga quirk :D[22:43:57] <puckipedia> m0ns0on: Maybe nice for you: You can have desktops with different resolutions[22:44:12] <puckipedia> You can't overlay them, that would be nice actually[22:44:23] <m0ns0on> puckipedia: It worked on Amiga... :)[22:44:47] <m0ns0on> brb 1 sec[22:44:48] <umccullough> didn't amiga support screen areas with different resolutions simultaneously?[22:44:57] <puckipedia> IIRC, they did[22:45:02] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[22:45:02] <luroh> m0ns0on: regarding colors, have you tried redshift or F.lux on linux?[22:45:13] <puckipedia> His username: ~AMIGA[22:46:23] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[22:46:36] <waddlesplash> tgkokk: ping[22:49:39] <waddlesplash> tgkokk: I didn't remove anything from it, just binaries[22:49:43] *** m0ns00n has joined #haiku[22:49:47] <waddlesplash> I didn't move any folders around, IIRC[22:49:48] <m0ns00n> :) back[22:49:59] <tgkokk> waddlesplash: you remove ArpLib from the root directory[22:50:01] <tgkokk> *removed[22:50:17] <tgkokk> that's what the makefile uses to place its libraries in[22:50:40] <waddlesplash> tgkokk: looking into this right now[22:51:06] *** AmineKhaldi__ has quit IRC[22:51:06] *** AmineKhaldi__ has joined #haiku[22:51:11] *** AmineKhaldi__ is now known as AmineKhaldi[22:52:56] <waddlesplash> tgkokk: ok, pushed something[22:52:58] <waddlesplash> try that[22:53:18] <m0ns00n> umccullough: Amiga had screens with differing resolutions, able to overlay at the same time. But it also used Public Screens.[22:53:42] <m0ns00n> umccullough: Which were of different resolutions - and apps could be "promoted" to move between these screens.[22:53:54] <m0ns00n> umccullough: so it's a poor mans workspaces :)[22:54:17] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: like X11 and Windows's multiple screens feature? drag windows from screen to screen[22:54:19] <waddlesplash> etc.etc[22:54:42] <m0ns00n> umccullough: But even though later versions of AmigaOS had "offscreen move" as an option - the default mode was to lock the windows to the screen dimensions. Which IMO worked quite well to solidify the desktop environment.[22:54:54] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: Well, kindof, but more primitive.[22:55:22] <waddlesplash> ah[22:55:29] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: Do simulete "workspaces", each screen could be larger than the visible screen space. And you could scroll around in the screen with the mouse.[22:55:42] *** Paradoxon_m has joined #haiku[22:55:47] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: Nobody thought of making a stationary workspaces like applet actually :) But it could be quite easily implemented.[22:56:26] *** Paradoxon_m has quit IRC[22:56:32] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: but then you could also have multiple workspaces pr. screen. Would probably be confusing :D[23:02:20] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[23:02:41] <waddlesplash> And another boring day at HaikuArchives...[23:02:52] <waddlesplash> Anyone got stuffs to Be archived?[23:03:26] *** m0ns00n has quit IRC[23:03:47] *** Paradoxon_m has joined #haiku[23:04:37] *** m0ns00n has joined #haiku[23:06:24] <m0ns00n> How do you get haikuports to work?[23:06:33] <m0ns00n> I installed Python, but I still get an error when running it.[23:06:33] *** jua__ has joined #haiku[23:06:46] <m0ns00n> Get a traceback.[23:06:51] <m0ns00n> line 9[23:07:02] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[23:08:27] <puckipedia> file?[23:09:14] <m0ns00n> haikuporter gives a error, from HaikuPorter.Main import Main[23:09:18] <m0ns00n> and[23:09:28] <m0ns00n> line 38, except BaseException as exception[23:09:33] <m0ns00n> Perhaps wrong Python version?[23:09:44] *** jua_ has quit IRC[23:09:48] <puckipedia> Which version?[23:09:53] <puckipedia> do you have?[23:09:58] <m0ns00n> python 2.4.2[23:10:19] <puckipedia> That's old... mine is 2.6.8[23:10:24] <puckipedia> Which Haiku version?[23:10:25] <m0ns00n> it's from haikuware[23:10:30] <m0ns00n> alpha 4[23:10:32] <m0ns00n> 4.1[23:10:48] <puckipedia> AFAIK, alpha 4 is too old for the new HaikuPorter[23:10:53] <m0ns00n> ..[23:10:55] <m0ns00n> ok[23:11:09] <PulkoMandy> yes, you need to grab an older version of it[23:11:15] <m0ns00n> you guys should really consider making a new alpha which isn't stuck in the past :)[23:11:19] <PulkoMandy> but, yes[23:11:31] <puckipedia> Or upgrade to a recenter nightly[23:11:39] <m0ns00n> but then I need to compile?[23:11:42] <m0ns00n> and it might break?[23:11:56] <puckipedia> No, you don't need to compile nightlies[23:11:57] <PulkoMandy> get the nightlies at http://www.haiku-files.org[23:12:09] <m0ns00n> oki. but nightlies, aren't they bleeding edge?[23:12:14] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[23:12:15] <m0ns00n> like, they might crash on my hw[23:12:15] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: more or less, yes[23:12:19] <m0ns00n> :/[23:12:21] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: use a VM.[23:12:23] <PulkoMandy> yes, but we usually don't break stuff for fun[23:12:28] <puckipedia> I haven't had any recent crashes[23:12:34] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: No Idea why I would use a VM.[23:12:38] <PulkoMandy> so they should work - possibly better than the alpha[23:12:38] <puckipedia> 19 hours uptime[23:12:39] <waddlesplash> puckipedia: I get them quite a lot[23:12:43] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: it's safer?[23:12:55] <waddlesplash> It only will destroy a file on your HDD instead of your whole PC?[23:12:59] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: for playing, sure :) I want it on real hw. I'm not a betatester.[23:13:11] <m0ns00n> Oh I have computers enough.[23:13:13] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: well I am :D[23:13:15] <m0ns00n> This one is dedicated to Haiku.[23:13:33] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: actually, the nightly is more stable than R1a4 in some ways[23:13:39] <waddlesplash> you won't want to go back ;)[23:13:52] <luroh> that reminds me, how come haikuporter isn't available as a package?[23:13:52] <waddlesplash> Like, package manager, better web browser...[23:13:59] <m0ns00n> ok[23:14:03] <waddlesplash> luroh: good question, I was going to ask that somewhere too :D[23:14:07] <m0ns00n> Can I upgrade from within Haiku?[23:14:09] <waddlesplash> probably should file a bug about that[23:14:13] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: somewhat[23:14:18] <m0ns00n> ?[23:14:20] <waddlesplash> it crashes 50% of the time[23:14:24] <m0ns00n> ouch![23:14:25] <waddlesplash> the other 50% of the time it works[23:14:41] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: but you lose all your deskbar settings if it does work[23:14:42] <m0ns00n> You guys rewrote the installer?[23:14:48] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: yeah, they did[23:14:52] <m0ns00n> :([23:14:55] <m0ns00n> But it worked[23:14:56] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: what?[23:15:03] <waddlesplash> why the ":("?[23:15:10] <m0ns00n> Because, don't rewrite what works! :)[23:15:21] <m0ns00n> You'll never finish that way.[23:15:22] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: It didn't do packags.[23:15:30] <waddlesplash> But the installer doesn't do upgrading anyways[23:15:32] <puckipedia> So it was broken[23:15:33] <waddlesplash> the package manager does that[23:15:38] <waddlesplash> puckipedia: yes. it was, in a way[23:15:48] <m0ns00n> ok.[23:15:51] <m0ns00n> Here goes then[23:15:53] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: it's a bajillion times faster though![23:15:54] <puckipedia> Except updating from a pre-pm haiku iirc[23:16:04] <waddlesplash> puckipedia: true[23:16:07] <puckipedia> I removed the haiku package from my os, 10/10 would recommend again[23:16:25] <waddlesplash> puckipedia: XDXDXD[23:16:36] <puckipedia> Also, the bootloader has packagefs recognition?[23:16:43] <waddlesplash> puckipedia: it has to[23:16:56] <waddlesplash> it mounts the root package and launches the app_server and stuffs[23:17:05] <waddlesplash> tgkokk: how's that working for ya?[23:17:45] <tgkokk> waddlesplash: great[23:17:53] <waddlesplash> is it compiling yet?[23:17:57] <tgkokk> not yet[23:18:03] <tgkokk> fixing some iostream errors now[23:18:09] <m0ns00n> By the way, Haiku needs to do more publicity.[23:18:18] <m0ns00n> And there's a very silent community.[23:18:23] <waddlesplash> tgkokk: split it into multiple commits, ok? not just one giant one[23:18:24] <m0ns00n> Googling stuff is very confusing.[23:18:29] <tgkokk> waddlesplash: sure[23:18:35] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: not if you're a search engine wizard ;)[23:18:43] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash.[23:18:44] <m0ns00n> :)[23:18:52] <m0ns00n> Lots of broken pages.[23:18:55] <m0ns00n> Lots of outdated info.[23:19:05] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: that's what date filtering is for[23:19:09] <m0ns00n> Even Haiku-os.org is becoming more and more irrelevant for would be users.[23:19:21] <m0ns00n> Read: supporters :)[23:19:46] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: did you hear about Blender3D's website redesign?[23:19:56] <m0ns00n> I didn't hear about it. But I saw it.[23:19:59] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:20:00] <waddlesplash> They basically said "the homepage is full of news and no new info for users"[23:20:10] <m0ns00n> Yup[23:20:12] <waddlesplash> so "rewrite homepage to be impressive" was the goal[23:20:15] <m0ns00n> I prefer the old page.[23:20:26] <m0ns00n> The new page looks like "nothing is happening".[23:20:26] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: well, that just means you're not a n00b :D[23:20:43] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: Definately. I've used Blender for over a decade.[23:21:02] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: the old news page is still around, you know[23:21:03] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: http://www.blender.org/news/[23:21:36] <m0ns00n> Sure :) But the new Blender page isn't really a disaster. And it's been xmas..[23:21:49] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: But Haiku should have more exciting stuff.[23:21:53] <m0ns00n> Screenshots of new apps.[23:22:01] <m0ns00n> New features in images.[23:22:05] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: you a web designer?[23:22:08] <m0ns00n> Perhaps somebody should blog for real.[23:22:09] <m0ns00n> Yes.[23:22:15] <waddlesplash> ah, ok[23:22:16] <m0ns00n> :) Actually, I own a web company.[23:22:16] <m0ns00n> :)[23:22:31] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: blog for real? meaning -- blog about what you can do with haiku, etc, etc?[23:22:33] * alpha123 mentions that he's a web designer[23:22:44] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: yes, ofc.[23:22:47] <alpha123> m0ns00n: Oh, what's your company?[23:22:51] <gordonjcp> I'm not[23:22:55] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: and get a user/supporter company going.[23:23:02] <m0ns00n> alpha123: ideverket.no[23:23:04] <waddlesplash> alpha123: m0ns00n: let's pester umccullough until he lets us design a new theme for Haiku, lol[23:23:07] <m0ns00n> just got a new page before xmas :D[23:23:17] <alpha123> waddlesplash: I'm in. :D[23:23:19] <m0ns00n> don't validate it! we've not done it yet :D[23:23:56] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: the current website isn't bad. you just need to update it with nice tasting content![23:24:16] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: so basically, redo the big header bar.[23:24:18] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: I don't wanna (as a user) head about all kinds of internal info.[23:24:27] <m0ns00n> head=hear[23:24:30] <waddlesplash> replace it with slick screenshots, move the news to a small sidebar[23:24:40] <m0ns00n> not only screenshots, but latest blogs etc[23:24:43] <waddlesplash> create a new "Haiku for the User" blog[23:24:46] <m0ns00n> latest on haiku-files f.ex.[23:24:52] <m0ns00n> Yes![23:25:07] <m0ns00n> I'd be happy to volunteer my voyage into becoming a Haiku developer :)[23:25:16] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: maybe we should use a Wordpress site for that? Haiku's BlogOSphere is more for devs[23:25:17] <m0ns00n> Working on a web browser kind of thing, and a file transfer app[23:25:40] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: yes, but haiku-os is where you go to get the official news.[23:25:47] <m0ns00n> could be cool to see it connecting with users more.[23:26:02] *** axeld has quit IRC[23:26:03] <m0ns00n> to me it just looks like a dev-fest and no new release for over a year.[23:26:04] <gordonjcp> http://gjcp.net <- I like minimal web pages[23:26:07] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: the web browser needs work in ALL areas -- I mean, the WebKit port needs work, the browser needs a full history/bookmarks manager (doesn't have one)[23:26:31] <waddlesplash> gordonjcp: I like http://www.gjcp.net/about/ better[23:26:48] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: my project has nothing to do with HTML I'm afraid. It's gonna be more like a "discmag browser". only browsing sites online.[23:27:10] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: "discmag"?[23:27:22] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: and my file transfer project is also gonna be simple - but so you can work on files and store them on a linux box for safe keeping.[23:27:28] <waddlesplash> ah, ok[23:27:32] <gordonjcp> waddlesplash: it loads nice and fast[23:27:37] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: the nightlies have NFS4 support now[23:27:42] <waddlesplash> dunno if that helps[23:28:28] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: my browser is like an experiment. to see if it's possible to make nice looking websites without all the tech's in todays browsers. CSS, Javascript, HTML revisions, etc.[23:28:45] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: https://github.com/HaikuArchives/FlyingTroll[23:28:47] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: ofc it helps! :)[23:29:20] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: cool - a bit what I'm working on.[23:29:23] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: just add networking to FlyingTroll using the new libNetApi that PulkoMandy has invested so much time in[23:29:29] <waddlesplash> and you're good to go :)[23:30:02] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: mine is not for reading docs. it's for reading demoscene like presentations with multiple subsections. f.ex. you could make a BBS with my system - and the client would render animations and sound effects.[23:30:16] <waddlesplash> ah, I see[23:30:44] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: but we need new kinds of apps. not just compilations of what we already use.[23:30:55] <waddlesplash> New kinds of apps....[23:31:07] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: in the 90s lots of new apps appeared.[23:31:13] <waddlesplash> well, yeah[23:31:21] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: there's no reason why it stopped.[23:31:42] <m0ns00n> waddlesplash: perhaps devs got greedy and started exclusively targeting "mainstream end users"[23:31:45] <waddlesplash> Um, because no one could think of new apps?[23:31:52] <m0ns00n> doubtfully[23:32:11] <waddlesplash> well, I'm no genius at software dev[23:32:15] <waddlesplash> a few things here an there[23:32:17] <waddlesplash> *and[23:32:23] <waddlesplash> e.g.[23:32:26] <waddlesplash> soakbot: about[23:32:27] <soakbot> I'm the Modular JS-based bot. Operator: "waddlesplash".[23:32:27] <soakbot> enabled modules: gci-tasks[23:32:28] <soakbot> src code at https://github.com/waddlesplash/waterbot[23:32:29] <m0ns00n> Today, all users to is check email, chat a bit, use facebook. play some games. I won't target those users :)[23:32:57] <m0ns00n> We need users to have to learn new things.[23:33:10] <waddlesplash> Good luck.[23:33:11] <m0ns00n> Get a new app, and see something completely new.[23:33:12] <m0ns00n> :D[23:33:16] <m0ns00n> Yes it's worth my time.[23:33:24] <waddlesplash> I'll do that. Everyone here will. But will the average end user?[23:33:28] <waddlesplash> 1% chance.[23:33:32] <m0ns00n> In the daytime, I work on conventional software[23:33:42] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: That's why Windows is so popular. It never really changes.[23:33:42] <m0ns00n> Who cares about the average user?[23:33:51] <waddlesplash> And that's also why Win8 was so UNpopular[23:33:52] <m0ns00n> Who cares about them?[23:34:03] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: the people who care about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4[23:34:06] <puckipedia> The average user buys stuf[23:34:07] <m0ns00n> When I started out with computers, there was no "average" user :)[23:34:10] <puckipedia> f*[23:34:21] <waddlesplash> puckipedia: that looked like a swear word[23:34:26] <waddlesplash> that you **d out[23:34:28] <m0ns00n> There were "average people".[23:34:29] <puckipedia> fu[23:34:38] <puckipedia> That's all I can uncensor...[23:34:42] <m0ns00n> And they harrassed everyone who were "nerds".[23:34:44] <waddlesplash> lol[23:34:53] <m0ns00n> Now we're supposed to please them? =)[23:35:10] <waddlesplash> m0ns00n: GIVE US APPS OR DIE OF STARVATION basically[23:35:14] <m0ns00n> Hahaha[23:35:36] <m0ns00n> You can make a few "tap on images that looks the same" type of iPhone apps.[23:35:47] <m0ns00n> Then the average joe will throw you some bucks.[23:35:53] <puckipedia> Also, convenience sells too[23:35:57] <puckipedia> (and free stuff)[23:36:13] <m0ns00n> But I'd rather use a creative OS with creative, enabling apps. :)[23:36:18] <puckipedia> One of my apps was featured (free), and it was suddenly downloaded 1000* more[23:36:48] <m0ns00n> :)[23:37:03] <m0ns00n> I see a divergence in computers these days.[23:37:26] <m0ns00n> And "consumers" (hate that word) degenerate to the lowest level of computer use.[23:37:42] <m0ns00n> But there are hundreds of thousands of advanced users - probably millions.[23:37:57] <m0ns00n> And they would get a kick out of apps that were common in the 90s.[23:38:04] <m0ns00n> Video titling apps.[23:38:10] <m0ns00n> Cel animation[23:38:17] <m0ns00n> We still have such apps.[23:38:25] <waddlesplash> OOOOOOOOOOOH[23:38:26] <waddlesplash> http://web.archive.org/web/20010809023232/http://www.objektsynth.com/2.html[23:38:27] <m0ns00n> But it's kindof grown into a fixed shape.[23:38:45] <m0ns00n> Nice[23:38:50] <m0ns00n> I used a synth type app for BeOS[23:38:53] <m0ns00n> I don't remember it's name[23:39:01] <m0ns00n> It had a simple horizontal sequencer (midi like)[23:39:09] <m0ns00n> Made a couple of songs and exported them to mp3[23:39:25] *** DaaT has quit IRC[23:39:31] <m0ns00n> But if you can deliver an OS that will make artists of people, not just "users" or developers, you've done a great job.[23:39:52] <luroh> waddlesplash: could you possibly file the 'provide HaikuPorter as a package' ticket? i don't have a bitbucket account[23:39:56] <m0ns00n> I don't think as many people become an artist with modern OSes anymore.[23:39:58] <waddlesplash> luroh: k[23:40:02] <luroh> if the idea is just stupid, you can blame me[23:41:07] <waddlesplash> luroh: https://bitbucket.org/haikuports/haikuporter/issue/23/provide-haikuporter-as-a-package[23:41:12] <waddlesplash> luroh: no I wanted it too :)[23:41:40] <luroh> thanks :)[23:42:25] *** hub has joined #haiku[23:42:48] *** hub is now known as Guest58152[23:43:40] <m0ns00n> Hm[23:43:43] <m0ns00n> The nightly[23:43:57] <m0ns00n> Can you from Haiku easily "burn the image" to a USB stick?[23:44:17] <puckipedia> Yeah, download the anyboot[23:44:27] <m0ns00n> hm[23:44:31] <puckipedia> Just dd (or imgwrite) the image[23:44:36] <m0ns00n> Ah like that[23:44:53] <m0ns00n> But can you also upgrade Haiku directly with theiImage?[23:45:04] <m0ns00n> Ah I'll try anyboot[23:45:47] <m0ns00n> Anyhow[23:45:52] <m0ns00n> It's bedtime for me :)[23:45:55] <m0ns00n> Be back tomorrow! =)[23:46:06] *** m0ns00n has quit IRC