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[00:42:38] <buschhardt> Hallo I've 2 questions to haiku os: is there a usermanagement and where i can find a howto install wpa sup instruction for my wireless card (intel Pro Wireless 2200BG)?
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[01:44:06] <CIA-63> haiku.master: bonefish * hrev44273 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=06e8742 :
[01:44:06] <CIA-63> Fix #8643: AVLTreeMap strategy Auto discards const
[01:44:06] <CIA-63> Signed-off-by: Ingo Weinhold <ingo_weinhold at gmx dot de>
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[03:56:47] <[JJ]Albert> Well, this has been a lovely week. :-\
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[03:58:30] <[JJ]Albert> The only joyful event was me finally clearing the dust out of my laptop's passive cooler. Which it really is one -- The one fan is meant for all the other main motherboard stuff.
[03:59:02] <[JJ]Albert> Now the fan is no longer revving up. I'm getting FAR better performance now. :D
[04:00:30] <[JJ]Albert> Also figured out that Ubuntu package resources can force a half-update between 11.10 and 12.04. I will fully move onto 12.04 later for this old laptop, it's just I'm not willing to see any performance breaking features.
[04:00:44] <[JJ]Albert> Which happens often w/ Ubuntu. :-\
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[05:36:01] <Xeon3D> woop woop
[05:36:05] <Xeon3D> who was looking for old OS'es?
[05:36:09] <Xeon3D> BeOS-PR1.7z <- just in
[05:38:44] <DHowett> coool.
[05:39:14] <Xeon3D> sad thing is I don't have the hardware to play with it.
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[07:44:25] <buschhardt> Is there a user management in Haiku?
[07:45:23] <augiedoggie> not really
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[12:39:01] <Haikuness> Hey, I have a oldish machine at home and i figured it'd be a good idea to run haiku on it since it's not as heavy with resources and well, it's awesome.
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[12:39:08] <Haikuness> The main problem is i need wireless
[12:39:20] <Haikuness> It'll be a usb stick with a rt73 card in it
[12:39:54] <Haikuness> now I know haiku's has limited wireless drivers but, I heard and read it could be possible to use bsd's wireless drivers?
[12:42:42] <johnny_b> if you don't get an answer try on the mailinglists
[12:42:52] <Haikuness> okay thanks
[12:42:55] <johnny_b> there are more core devs than here
[12:44:16] <johnny_b> Haikuness: check this too : http://haikuware.com/hardware/
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[12:46:43] <Haikuness> johnny_b: thanks, i had a quick look through, it doesn't seem to be there
[12:48:10] <johnny_b> okay :)
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[18:05:27] <Hiryu> commits have really slowed down lately, is there a convention or something?
[18:09:41] <luroh> Hiryu: it's mainly due to a lack of active developers
[18:10:38] <luroh> and a big chuck of what ever activity there is goes into gsoc mentoring
[18:12:17] <Hiryu> ah
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[18:12:48] <luroh> to be honest, the project has slowed down to a point where it has not even been possible to find someone to step up as release manager
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[18:15:00] <Hiryu> hmm
[18:15:14] <johnny_b> ouch :(
[18:15:21] <Hiryu> I'll go ahead and donate some $. It's been a while since the last time
[18:17:09] <johnny_b> luroh: that sounds really really badly
[18:17:41] <PulkoMandy> we're not dead, don't worry :)
[18:17:53] <PulkoMandy> the release manager role is not something that you want to do twice
[18:18:06] <luroh> well, it is what it is. that said, this round of gsoc seems to be doing great and aldeck has been slaving away on a WebPositive refresh
[18:18:09] <PulkoMandy> and all the ones who wanted to do it, already did :)
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[18:19:30] <luroh> i think there may be a secure keystore implementation around the corner as well
[18:19:59] <luroh> and yes, donating is always a good thing :)
[18:20:25] <johnny_b> :)
[18:28:01] <Hiryu> PulkoMandy: sounds like a fun job
[18:28:26] <Hiryu> I didn't haiku would be dead... the drop off in commits was abrupt and I figured I'd hear something in the news before things got severe
[18:30:16] <Hiryu> I just donated a whole $20
[18:30:24] <luroh> i think the project is in great shape, it just moves along at glacial speeds currently :)
[18:30:32] <Hiryu> yah :/
[18:30:50] <Hiryu> so much works and so much of it works great... it really seems like R1 shouldn't be that far off
[18:31:10] <PulkoMandy> actually
[18:31:16] <PulkoMandy> we are 8 issues off alpha 4
[18:31:23] <PulkoMandy> but none of these are hard to solve
[18:31:33] <PulkoMandy> so it is not time to start working on new and shiny features
[18:31:33] <Hiryu> yah, 8 doesn't seem like a lot
[18:31:38] <Hiryu> can haiku handle beos pkg's yet?
[18:31:43] <PulkoMandy> and no one manages to fix those
[18:31:50] <PulkoMandy> it does, there is a simple installer
[18:32:01] <Hiryu> yah, I think working on new features instead of what needs to happen for R1 is a really bad idea
[18:32:26] <PulkoMandy> yes, so at the moment it's not moving a lot
[18:32:29] <Hiryu> I'd love to have multi user, 64 bit support, inodes, etc, but a stable release should happen. I think it will attract a lot more users (and more potential devs)
[18:32:52] <PulkoMandy> finishing R1 is a more boring job
[18:33:05] <Hiryu> yep, I'll agree
[18:33:20] <Hiryu> polishing things up is a pain in the ass
[18:33:39] <Hiryu> PulkoMandy: where are the 8 issues listed? I'm curious :)
[18:33:43] <Hiryu> I wish I had the time to contribute
[18:34:34] <PulkoMandy> http://dev.haiku-os.org/query?status=assigned&status=in-progress&status=reopened&status=new&group=status&milestone=R1%2Falpha4
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[18:35:04] <luroh> well, all of those could easily be deferred to a5
[18:35:19] <luroh> there are worse regressions around that are not on that list
[18:35:35] <luroh> those 8 issues are not the problem
[18:37:49] <Hiryu> gotcha
[18:38:06] <Hiryu> a5? I heard talk of a4... but of course a3 was supposed to be the last alpha
[18:38:17] <PulkoMandy> we can go on forever...
[18:38:29] <PulkoMandy> the package manager is the missing feature for entering beta stage
[18:41:08] <luroh> heh, however awsome, the package manager alone will take a couple of years to implement, deploy and debug
[18:42:59] <luroh> i'm willing to bet $100 right here that it will not have reached R1 release status by 2014
[18:43:36] <luroh> by 2014-12-31, even
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[19:14:23] <Hiryu> seems like the pkg manager... especially one from 2000 would be fairly simple to do
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[19:57:45] <luroh> Hiryu: not sure if you're up to speed with the project's plans for a pkg mgr, but they are far more elaborate than the solutions available back in 2000
[19:59:16] <luroh> i think it will be absolutely awsome, but it will take a big effort implementing, testing, packaging and setting up the infrastructure
[20:00:13] <luroh> and i don't see why it should be allowed to hold back R1
[20:04:50] <PulkoMandy> a lot of it is already written, actually
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[20:07:49] <luroh> yes, there is a skeleton and proof of concept (which was demonstrated a couple of years ago to much acclaim) but it has a long ways to go still
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[20:08:24] <luroh> none of that code has been released into the wild yet, afaik
[20:09:32] <johnny_b> :(
[20:10:00] <luroh> i am accepting the status quo as a fact, but i feel we're squandering enthusiasm and potential contributions by clinging to a release model that doesn't suit us at all
[20:11:01] <jua_> the code is public, it's just not in the main repository
[20:12:20] <luroh> i know, but it doesn't really change anything
[20:12:37] <luroh> no one has any idea of when it (and by extension R1) will actually be "done"
[20:12:57] <johnny_b> the project itfself is rotten too it needs serious rethinking imho
[20:13:51] <luroh> nah, don't agree there. i think the only thing we need is to switch to time-based releases
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[20:14:16] <johnny_b> and many other things
[20:14:39] <luroh> never knowing if/when the next release will happen is holding us back
[20:14:39] <jua_> seeing how bad the time-based release stuff works for linux, I don't agree :P
[20:15:21] <luroh> jua_: i guess we don't agree then
[20:15:23] <jua_> also, it's not like development would suddendly become faster just because more releases are made. in the end, there's a nightly build every day, if you want to stay current
[20:15:52] <luroh> well, that's not quite how it works
[20:16:06] <luroh> we have stable releases for a couple of reasons
[20:16:11] <johnny_b> true
[20:16:23] <jua_> there hasn't been a "stable" release so far though, just alphas :P
[20:16:49] <luroh> well, you know what i mean, official releases would perhaps be a better term
[20:17:18] <jua_> yeah
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[20:17:26] <luroh> for instance, third party developers are less than enthusiastic about tracking nightly builds
[20:17:55] <luroh> they need something they can actually support, not something that is constantly changing
[20:18:02] <jua_> My point is simply: the reason for the feeling of slow progress lately is mainly that many core developers don't find much free time currently to work on it. A tighter release schedule wouldn't change anything about that.
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[20:18:30] <luroh> indirectly, i believe it will, for a few reasons
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[20:19:13] <luroh> one, knowing that there will be a release at some known point in time will spur developers to implement stuff to make it into the release
[20:19:36] <luroh> not knowing when a release will happen, you tend to postpone things
[20:19:52] <johnny_b> true
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[20:21:09] <luroh> two, it lets developers actually plan stuff ahead, not needing to unnecessarily hold back features that may endanger the overall stability
[20:22:33] <luroh> example: i know that kallisti5 was hesitant to push ahead with more gallium stuff, fearing it would lead to many problems and regressions
[20:23:17] <luroh> sure, you can proceed with such stuff in a branch somewhere, but not knowing when/if the next release will happen, how fun is that?
[20:23:25] <johnny_b> luroh: why not make an experiment? (i'd hate to use the word 'fork')
[20:24:29] <luroh> nah, not needed, that would be throwing out the baby with the bath water
[20:24:35] <johnny_b> :)
[20:24:41] <johnny_b> i see
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[20:24:59] <robert_negro> AROS OS has drivers for hw accelerated graphics (both ati and nvidia). Why don't someone port them to haiku?
[20:25:01] <johnny_b> then i'd like to read your plan :)
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[20:25:29] <geist> what's their license?
[20:27:36] <robert_negro> They are surely opensource
[20:27:52] <augiedoggie> heh
[20:28:02] <johnny_b> geist: http://aros.sourceforge.net/license.html
[20:29:22] <geist> oh hmm, no idea what that is
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[20:33:27] <johnny_b> it says AROS Public License is based on MPL
[20:33:40] <johnny_b> Mozilla Public License
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   June 29, 2012  
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