June 21, 2012 
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June 21, 2012 [00:00:28] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[00:01:03] *** XenoDuck has joined #haiku[00:07:22] *** synchris has joined #haiku[00:07:22] *** synchris has joined #haiku[00:15:13] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[00:18:40] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[00:22:49] *** redblue has joined #haiku[00:25:39] *** Huggy has quit IRC[00:34:53] *** KapiX has left #haiku[00:37:45] *** KapiX has joined #haiku[00:47:56] *** Habstinat__ has quit IRC[00:55:13] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[01:00:34] *** orbital_fox_ has quit IRC[01:01:04] *** orbital_fox has quit IRC[01:02:52] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[01:07:01] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[01:08:59] *** Nozy has quit IRC[01:09:17] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[01:13:13] *** KapiX has left #haiku[01:15:58] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[01:19:12] *** Barrett has quit IRC[01:22:53] *** KapiX has joined #haiku[01:27:10] *** stpere has joined #haiku[01:28:25] *** oco2 has quit IRC[01:37:25] *** dak has quit IRC[02:03:08] *** stpere has quit IRC[02:09:27] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[02:12:50] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[02:15:37] *** BitPuffin has quit IRC[02:19:50] *** petterhj has quit IRC[02:24:01] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[02:32:44] *** Nozy has quit IRC[02:34:14] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[02:35:55] *** Habstinat has joined #haiku[02:47:00] *** synchris has quit IRC[02:50:08] *** carter has quit IRC[02:53:21] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[02:55:07] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[02:58:10] *** Barrett has quit IRC[03:00:18] *** ninjapig has joined #haiku[03:00:46] <ninjapig> how many of you use haiku as your primary os?[03:02:05] <augiedoggie> a good portion of those who do are Haiku devs and many of them avoid this channel[03:02:45] <ninjapig> where do i find these people[03:02:57] <augiedoggie> the mailing lists?[03:03:07] <ninjapig> nice nick btw[03:03:12] <augiedoggie> :P[03:03:32] <augiedoggie> I used to use it for ~75% of my computing time[03:03:40] <AlienSoldier> ninjapig i would if it was working on my PC. I use R5 full time that said[03:03:42] <augiedoggie> but these days it's more like 20%[03:04:08] <tidux> I've been using it as my only OS for two days now[03:04:12] <ninjapig> how's the java support[03:04:16] <tidux> while my Debian laptop goes through the mother of all e2fscks[03:04:19] <ninjapig> i see very mixed stuff[03:04:28] <tidux> swing and awt don't really work yet[03:04:37] <tidux> there's a GSoC 2012 project about that, though[03:04:39] <hamishm> do they not? :P[03:04:49] <ninjapig> i know hamishm[03:04:54] <ninjapig> he's on the screenshot[03:05:01] <ninjapig> for the first item in the java search[03:05:05] <ninjapig> I KNOWS IT[03:05:38] <tidux> three days of e2fsck... good thing I have another computer or I'd be going nuts[03:05:53] <hamishm> yeah, I'm doing the openjdk port[03:05:56] <tidux> oh[03:05:59] <ninjapig> yeah[03:06:01] <tidux> slowpoke.gif @ me[03:06:02] <ninjapig> good man hamishm[03:06:07] <tidux> how's that going?[03:06:31] <hamishm> not bad, the awt port is mostly complete (but buggy)[03:06:36] <tidux> cool[03:06:38] <ninjapig> also, hamishm why are you so interested in haiku/beos[03:06:45] <ninjapig> im curious[03:07:08] <hamishm> I don't really use it as an os[03:07:15] <hamishm> I just enjoy hacking on it[03:07:59] <ninjapig> hacking.......the beos itself?.....i know hacking is a general term[03:08:20] <hamishm> well hacking meaning writing code[03:08:50] <ninjapig> really? that's actually fascinating[03:08:58] <hamishm> also it's interesting to work on an open source project with fewer developers[03:09:00] <ninjapig> why hack on beOS as oppposed to a linux variant[03:09:15] <tidux> more low-hanging fruit?[03:09:23] <hamishm> ^ pretty much this[03:09:37] <ninjapig> i don't get the metaphor[03:09:46] <ninjapig> do i not deserve to be here[03:09:48] <ninjapig> :([03:09:56] <hamishm> well on an OS like haiku there's more gaps to be filled[03:10:17] <hamishm> so I can take on a bigger project like openjdk port and get a lot of experience[03:10:27] <hamishm> while on linux it's difficult to find something like that to do[03:10:30] <augiedoggie> you can be a big fish in a small pond[03:10:36] <augiedoggie> is that metaphor better?[03:11:08] <tidux> ninjapig: think of hacking skill as stilts height[03:11:22] <tidux> if you've got stubby little stilts it's easier to pick fruit from a low-hanging branch[03:12:41] *** ninjapig1 has joined #haiku[03:12:55] <ninjapig1> yeah[03:13:07] <ninjapig1> makes sense[03:13:15] <ninjapig1> i don't get the reward part of it[03:13:25] <ninjapig1> but it makes sense[03:13:27] <tidux> it's like a fisherman[03:13:30] <tidux> just for the halibut[03:13:39] <tidux> :P[03:14:35] *** ninjapig has quit IRC[03:14:47] <ninjapig1> this sounds noobish to ask but does the beOS terminal work unix-like?[03:15:09] <augiedoggie> yes[03:15:20] <augiedoggie> (not counting a few bugs here and there)[03:15:20] <ninjapig1> nice[03:19:21] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[03:25:12] *** KapiX has left #haiku[03:28:55] *** TimKack_ has joined #haiku[03:30:43] *** TimKack has quit IRC[03:30:44] *** TimKack_ is now known as TimKack[03:35:48] *** XenoDuck has quit IRC[03:50:55] *** ninjapig1 has quit IRC[03:52:57] *** _marc` has quit IRC[03:53:03] *** AmineKhaldi has quit IRC[03:53:32] *** AmineKhaldi has joined #haiku[03:53:51] *** ninjapig has joined #haiku[03:55:16] *** cnuke has quit IRC[03:55:28] *** cnuke has joined #haiku[04:01:15] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[04:05:25] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[04:08:14] *** jua_ has quit IRC[04:08:21] *** juaa_ has joined #haiku[04:08:33] <CIA-64> haiku.master: mmadia * hrev44251 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=55713ee : Updated URL's for WifiFirmwareScriptData. Fixes #8645.[04:08:44] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[04:09:07] *** ninjapig1 has joined #haiku[04:09:22] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:10:43] *** ninjapig has quit IRC[04:14:13] *** ninjapig1 has quit IRC[04:15:24] <[JJ]Albert> Woohoo.[04:16:40] <tidux> ?[04:17:33] <[JJ]Albert> Um, nothing.[04:18:08] <[JJ]Albert> Just me being silly in my first comment since logging in. :-\[04:18:20] <[JJ]Albert> Forgive me.[04:19:10] <[JJ]Albert> It's a quiet day, all around.[04:19:16] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[04:19:36] <[JJ]Albert> Wednesdays usually are more exciting for me; I guess that's only when I'm busy.[04:19:47] <[JJ]Albert> :-p[04:20:49] <tidux> my laptop battery died when it said it had 5% life left[04:21:09] <tidux> so now I'm nearly 36 hours in to the world's longest e2fsck job[04:21:09] <tidux> :/[04:21:25] <[JJ]Albert> Oh dear. :([04:21:36] <tidux> yeah[04:21:41] <tidux> ~30GB music[04:21:44] <[JJ]Albert> Well, this certainly is a terrible day for some ppl.[04:21:44] <tidux> ~30GB videos[04:21:53] <tidux> all my school work[04:22:04] <[JJ]Albert> Shame I can't buy you a roast beef sandwich[04:22:10] <tidux> the school work's really what I'd miss though[04:22:16] <tidux> the rest can be reripped or retorrented[04:22:22] <[JJ]Albert> Those things cure everything. :-([04:22:26] <tidux> also my configuration files and such[04:22:41] <tidux> although most of my important configs I've got backed up on my server[04:23:09] <[JJ]Albert> Well, that's good.[04:23:15] <[JJ]Albert> You got dropbox?[04:23:28] <tidux> no[04:23:33] <tidux> I can get it easily enough[04:23:41] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, well that might've saved you on some things.[04:24:00] <[JJ]Albert> Obviously, I wouldn't keep legally ambiguous stuff on it.[04:24:04] <tidux> but between my space on my college's servers, my SDF shell, and my home server, I've got disasterproof backups if I do rsync properly[04:24:11] <tidux> at least for text files, small projects, etc.[04:24:16] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, yeh.[04:24:23] <tidux> sadly, I haven't been[04:24:24] <tidux> d'oh[04:24:41] <[JJ]Albert> Again, a roast beef sandwich would do you well. :-\[04:24:53] <tidux> lol yeah it would[04:24:53] <[JJ]Albert> It made my terrible day much better.[04:24:56] <tidux> those things are delicious[04:25:00] <[JJ]Albert> Yup.[04:25:04] <[JJ]Albert> With horsey sauce.[04:25:07] <tidux> mmm[04:25:15] <[JJ]Albert> Damn, I want moar.[04:25:18] <[JJ]Albert> :([04:25:27] <tidux> "Yo mama's so dumb, she thought the seven layer model was a girl holding a burrito"[04:25:35] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[04:25:46] <tidux> "Yo mama's so ugly even TCP won't acknowledge her"[04:25:57] <[JJ]Albert> Heheh.[04:26:18] <tidux> "Yo mama's so fat her dress size can only be stored as bignum"[04:26:46] <[JJ]Albert> Yo mamas so fat, that she covers several timezones.[04:27:10] <tidux> yo mama's so fat, steven hawking uses her as an experimental lab to test his theories about supermassive black holes[04:27:24] <[JJ]Albert> OK, where did we start with the yo mama jokes again?[04:27:27] <tidux> yo mama's so poor lehman wouldn't give her a mortgage[04:27:38] <[JJ]Albert> Settle down, tidux.[04:27:52] <tidux> horsey sauce -> horseradish sauce -> mmm, roast beef sandwiches are good -> I don't have roast beef[04:28:04] <tidux> I do have burritos -> seven layer burrito -> OSI model -> the joke[04:28:15] <[JJ]Albert> I've unleashed a monster. :([04:28:23] <[JJ]Albert> A roast beef monster![04:28:25] <tidux> nah, my brain does this all the time[04:28:34] <[JJ]Albert> I see... >_>[04:28:46] <tidux> the random ping ponging between topics[04:28:50] <tidux> not thinking about sandwiches[04:29:00] <[JJ]Albert> Damn.[04:29:55] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[04:31:41] <[JJ]Albert> Well, here's the backb0ne of this channel, right now.[04:33:55] <[JJ]Albert> ... Yeah, that pun fell on its back. :p[04:34:06] <tidux> bone[04:34:16] <[JJ]Albert> Yup.[04:34:33] <[JJ]Albert> I'm speaking of the guy who came in.[04:35:45] *** ChanServ has quit IRC[04:37:12] <tidux> chanserv failing on a netsplit?[04:37:15] <tidux> that's so freenode[04:37:21] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, weird.[04:37:24] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[04:50:44] *** ChanServ has joined #haiku[04:50:44] *** calvino.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ[04:53:06] <[JJ]Albert> The almighty chanserv has returned.[04:53:18] <[JJ]Albert> :p[04:59:51] *** Xeon3D|Zzz is now known as Xeon3D[05:06:08] <tidux> well I'm fucked[05:06:12] <tidux> the partition in question is gone[05:06:14] <[JJ]Albert> Ah.[05:06:21] <[JJ]Albert> Darn. :([05:06:23] <tidux> yeah[05:06:40] <tidux> it's OK though[05:06:47] <tidux> most of my school work's on my server[05:06:50] <tidux> my configs are all backed up[05:06:55] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, kewl.[05:07:05] <[JJ]Albert> And music isn't too difficult to replace.[05:07:07] <tidux> most of what I lost are pictures, music, documents, a few one-liner scripts[05:07:14] <tidux> VM/install media images[05:07:20] <[JJ]Albert> yeh.[05:07:28] <tidux> the ~/Documents contained some cool stuff though[05:07:32] <[JJ]Albert> Still, costs some freetime.[05:07:37] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[05:07:39] <[JJ]Albert> :([05:10:57] *** tidux has left #haiku[05:17:15] *** Nozy has quit IRC[05:19:16] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[05:19:30] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[05:35:09] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[05:42:13] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[05:48:35] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[05:49:47] <hdanak> Hi, I noticed the norcal-hug.org site is down... is this permanent?[05:50:08] <hdanak> or is it just under maintainance?[06:03:21] <augiedoggie> I'll ask him[06:04:47] <augiedoggie> I know he moved a bunch of his domains off of godaddy in protest of their support of SOPA[06:05:34] *** swarfega|away has quit IRC[06:07:04] *** hdanak has quit IRC[06:07:21] *** swarfega|away has joined #haiku[06:07:22] *** swarfega|away is now known as swarfega[06:07:25] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[06:07:48] <hdanak> augiedoggie: referring to Urias?[06:07:55] <augiedoggie> yes[06:08:29] <hdanak> ok, if you guys need any help hosting it, I have a static IP and a few spare servers, wouldn't mind helping out.[06:10:38] *** Archlyric has joined #haiku[06:10:46] <Archlyric> anyone here remember Phos?[06:10:59] <augiedoggie> I try not to[06:11:00] <Archlyric> or looncraz[06:11:32] <augiedoggie> he spams the ML and shows up in irc every once in a while :P[06:11:36] <Archlyric> im archiving vintage os's etc. making sort of a little museum in my basement lol[06:12:31] <Archlyric> what about 64BeOS?[06:12:49] <augiedoggie> never heard of it[06:12:52] <Xeon3D> me neither[06:12:59] <Xeon3D> PhOS I had b5 or b6 at some time[06:13:08] <hdanak> augiedoggie: are you in the bay area?[06:13:15] <augiedoggie> Denver[06:13:16] <Archlyric> i used to have b5 and b6 years ago lol[06:13:21] <Archlyric> nobody is on beshare anymore[06:13:36] <Archlyric> i miss it :([06:14:00] <Xeon3D> I has BeOS 5.0 Professional, BeOS Dev. Edition 1.1, PE Max Edition 4b1[06:14:08] <hdanak> Archlyric: I wonder why...[06:14:11] <Xeon3D> some bootlimiter floppy disks images[06:14:20] <Xeon3D> and I can prolly get BeOS 4.5 and 3.0[06:14:20] <helf> hello[06:14:30] <Xeon3D> hi helf[06:14:35] <helf> phos is terrible[06:14:39] <helf> *was[06:14:39] <augiedoggie> +1[06:14:49] <helf> hey Xeon3D, augiedoggie[06:14:58] <augiedoggie> howdy helf[06:15:09] <augiedoggie> I think I'm about to retire your old P4 :P[06:15:11] <Archlyric> i got 3 and 4.5[06:15:25] <helf> hahah[06:15:28] <helf> that poor box[06:15:32] <augiedoggie> heh[06:15:34] <helf> which one did you get?[06:15:36] <helf> 3.2?[06:15:42] <Archlyric> and 5 and dano and all the official zeta[06:16:18] <Archlyric> cant find any of my old rc cds of zeta tho[06:16:38] <helf> do you have that weard R5.1?[06:16:49] <helf> the hacked up one with zeta kernel + drivers and r5 everything else?[06:18:00] <Archlyric> nah i got official 5.1 beta[06:18:47] <Archlyric> i also grabbed the "BeOS MacWorld Preview 1997" but i havent got the right ppc macs, stupid imacs[06:18:56] <helf> oh wait[06:19:00] <helf> its 5.05 im thinking of[06:20:20] *** P4R4N01D has joined #haiku[06:20:57] <Xeon3D> BeOS 3.1, BeOS 4.5, BeOS 5.0 PE, BeOS 5.0 Prof. Ed.[06:21:29] <Xeon3D> IBM OS2 1.1c [Nokia OEM] (3½) <- :O[06:21:33] <helf> have Shark?[06:21:49] <helf> that really early build for the hobbit box[06:23:04] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[06:23:22] <Archlyric> after i archive everything i can for beos, its off to qnx[06:23:31] <Archlyric> and os/2[06:23:46] <Archlyric> each box built specifically for each os[06:23:46] *** hamishm has quit IRC[06:24:48] <Archlyric> after seeing that 90% of every beos site is gone i would like to archive and coument everything[06:25:03] <Archlyric> document*[06:25:27] <Xeon3D> oh OS/2[06:26:23] <Xeon3D> http://cl.ly/2G0c1O2J3X3Y071V1Z2M[06:27:17] <Xeon3D> qnx: http://cl.ly/2G1L3C0v0k412R1Y3R1a[06:27:36] <Archlyric> beta archive?[06:28:04] <helf> the QNX4 boot floppies were my favorite things for al ong time[06:28:25] <Xeon3D> y[06:28:27] <helf> I used to have an old 386sx-25 with 12mb of ram and an NE2000 ISA nic that I surfed on[06:28:41] <helf> because it was fast and had a snappy UI and browser[06:28:44] <helf> on a 25mhz 385[06:28:47] <Xeon3D> helf: indeed, gui + network + browser in 1.44mb was freaking amazing[06:28:48] <helf> 386[06:28:52] <helf> ya[06:29:03] <helf> oh and an isa svga card[06:29:15] <Xeon3D> I had "Impossible Disk" written on mine.[06:29:16] <Archlyric> i still have the zeta activation crack sweeet[06:29:18] <helf> I wish I still had that box[06:31:04] <hdanak> has anyone tried running haiku on the thinkpad t430 or x230 ?[06:32:33] <hdanak> interesting that looking at the haikuware hardware database, a lot of the older t-series laptops run haiku well, including the t60/61 and t400[06:32:53] <hdanak> and you can probably pick those up for < 300usd[06:32:56] <augiedoggie> most of the core devs use t series[06:34:55] <hdanak> so if you stick SSDs in a bunch of old t400 laptops or such, you can roll out fairly functional and performant haiku machines for cheap[06:36:12] <helf> i have a t60 im selling[06:36:17] <helf> it has a 40gb intel ssd in it[06:36:23] <helf> and a 120gb data drive[06:36:28] <helf> and mobility firegl graphics[06:36:35] <helf> 1400x1050 14.1" LCD[06:37:01] <hdanak> reading Pete's email regarding 'ZaReason' in Berkeley, it makes me think it wouldn't be terribly hard to find someone to promote it either, assuming it works well[06:37:39] <hdanak> it seems like a lot of haiku promotional activity has slowed down considerably in the last year or so[06:38:05] <hdanak> helf: how much?[06:39:04] <helf> hadnt really decided... make an offer? :p[06:39:11] <helf> has wifi and finger print reader[06:39:18] <helf> current dualbooting win7 ultimate and fedora core 17[06:39:36] <hdanak> runs haiku well?[06:39:49] <helf> no idea, never tried[06:40:29] <augiedoggie> I'm not sure if firegl is supported by any of the drivers[06:40:44] <Archlyric> how is fc17?[06:40:45] <hdanak> funny, I remember a few years ago I found some crap website selling a BeOS cd, and tried it in an old toshiba laptop I acquired, worked out of the box, I think including audio[06:40:46] <helf> its just an x1900[06:40:49] <helf> basically[06:40:55] <helf> Archlyric, I like it so far[06:41:03] <helf> not really any different from 16 that ive noticed anyways[06:41:05] <hdanak> i think i had to import video drivers, maybe audio as well[06:41:05] <augiedoggie> but that's in the range where one driver stops and the other starts[06:41:17] <helf> ah[06:44:12] <hdanak> http://images.dailytech.com/files/RadeonX1900.pdf[06:44:24] <hdanak> looks like someone leaked the x1900 manual in 2006[06:45:27] *** Archlyric has quit IRC[06:45:45] <hdanak> nevermind, this is just a bullshit consumer manual[06:46:24] <hdanak> http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/RRG-216M56-03oOEM.pdf[06:46:38] <hdanak> amd released it legitimately in 2008[06:55:02] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, kewl stuff y'guys.[06:55:22] <[JJ]Albert> QNX, I've read about before.[06:55:43] <augiedoggie> helf: for a while I thought that box died, but it turned out to be too much dust :P[06:58:08] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[06:58:09] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[06:58:13] <[JJ]Albert> After I build my new system, I'm thinking of throwing together a custom P3 machine for dos/win98 gaming[06:58:45] <[JJ]Albert> W/ a voodoo 5 card. I got a load of classic games that run poorly on newer OS.[06:58:58] <[JJ]Albert> So I figure, it's cheap to find old system nowadays.[06:59:09] <[JJ]Albert> And so that's what I'll do.[07:03:34] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: why not just use a VM?[07:03:47] <[JJ]Albert> Not the best for some games.[07:03:50] <hdanak> and starve it of resources :)[07:04:00] <hdanak> run in qemu software emulation[07:04:13] <[JJ]Albert> Like Thief Dark Project. That game is horrible to run on newer systems.[07:04:20] <[JJ]Albert> Doesn't like wine.[07:04:29] <hdanak> i mean put windows in a VM[07:04:29] <[JJ]Albert> Doesn't run very well in VM.[07:04:35] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh, I know.[07:04:43] <hdanak> is it because of timing issues?[07:04:55] <[JJ]Albert> Well, it's due to CPU issues.[07:05:02] <hdanak> i remember a lot of old games used to have silly divide by zero issues[07:05:08] <hdanak> because the cpu was so fast[07:05:12] <[JJ]Albert> It's also due to bugs which breaks some aspects of the game on newer systems[07:05:15] <hdanak> so you hit turbo[07:05:32] <hdanak> which somehow slows you down ?!?[07:05:40] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, yeh weird.[07:06:12] <hdanak> well, bad coding is generally the cause, and the fact that they were running on DOS so they could get away with it usually[07:06:17] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #507 of x86-FreeBSD-host is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-FreeBSD-host/builds/507[07:06:33] <[JJ]Albert> Well Thief is a windows 98 game.[07:06:56] <hdanak> Which is DOS[07:07:01] <hdanak> with a GUI shell[07:07:10] <[JJ]Albert> Er, true, but it runs 32 bit.[07:07:15] <hdanak> ah, fancy[07:07:34] <[JJ]Albert> Lol. Yes, but it's a buggy game because it was a buggy engine.[07:07:47] <[JJ]Albert> An engine that only liked systems of the time.[07:07:52] <[JJ]Albert> Nothing newer, or older.[07:08:04] <hdanak> well, at least you'll get that fuzzy nostalgia feeling when you flip on that old AT switch[07:08:12] <[JJ]Albert> Although newer mods have made it run better on newer systems.[07:08:35] <[JJ]Albert> It's still just nice to play it the way it was intended. Dunno, that's just me.[07:08:56] <hdanak> i remember being impressed as a kid that a 386 chip could run without a fan without totally frying[07:09:15] <hdanak> wasn't sure if that was the proper operating condition, but apparently it worked ;)[07:09:26] <[JJ]Albert> Well, here's an example of why I still play thief: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dydHehoa4c[07:09:35] <[JJ]Albert> This is a 12 year old game.[07:09:44] <[JJ]Albert> Well, just about.[07:09:53] *** Spacewalker has quit IRC[07:09:56] <[JJ]Albert> The sequel is just 11 now I think.[07:10:07] <[JJ]Albert> The first game was released in 98-99[07:10:15] <hdanak> at work, can't watch at the moment[07:10:20] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, srry[07:10:24] <hdanak> np[07:10:25] <[JJ]Albert> Want a screenshot?[07:10:28] <hdanak> sure[07:10:58] <[JJ]Albert> http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg178/scaled.php?server=178&filename=fppic03wk6.jpg&res=landing[07:11:17] <hdanak> looks fancy[07:11:22] <[JJ]Albert> 11 old game in the hands of a modern FM maker.[07:11:31] <[JJ]Albert> year old, yeh.[07:11:41] <hdanak> so 2001?[07:11:45] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh[07:11:55] <hdanak> not that old... but yeah, not bad[07:12:01] <[JJ]Albert> 1999 is when the first game came out I think.[07:12:12] <hdanak> about when Be died...[07:12:16] <[JJ]Albert> Well, for 2001 the games graphics werent perfect.[07:12:25] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh, that sucks. :([07:12:40] <[JJ]Albert> I remember when I first learned about Be.[07:12:44] <hdanak> remember the old game called LBA, or Twinsen's odyssey?[07:12:49] <[JJ]Albert> Yup[07:12:58] <[JJ]Albert> I played the sequel first.[07:13:15] <[JJ]Albert> I accidentally broke the CD. Then learned it's rare in the US. >_>[07:13:28] <hdanak> pretty awesome graphics for its time[07:13:40] <[JJ]Albert> Thank goodness though, there's a website called LBAHQ[07:13:53] <[JJ]Albert> That has iso files of the 2 games.[07:14:03] <[JJ]Albert> And modified to run on newer OS.[07:14:29] <hdanak> i was contributing a little to a FOSS game called freedroidRPG which has a few similarities, but LBA2 totally blows it out of the water[07:14:49] <hdanak> you could throw a ball around !![07:14:57] *** lollo64it has joined #haiku[07:15:28] <[JJ]Albert> Kewl[07:15:32] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, yeh[07:15:44] <hdanak> funny, there is a red/blue Be mug in the kitchenette at work, no one knows where it came from[07:15:58] <[JJ]Albert> It's odd how the camera works in LBA2[07:16:11] <[JJ]Albert> I thought it'd be nice if it followed you outside.[07:16:27] <[JJ]Albert> The game seems to run fast enough for outside following camera.[07:16:54] <[JJ]Albert> freedroidrpg looks interesting.[07:17:17] <[JJ]Albert> Very interesting.[07:17:52] <hdanak> i feel like a lot of times projects like freedroidrpg have the notion that there aren't enough devs to really make drastic changes beyond maintenance[07:18:19] *** cherrypai has quit IRC[07:18:20] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, yeh.[07:18:42] <hdanak> i'd prefer that they would ignore that and take that leap of faith[07:18:46] <[JJ]Albert> There's just no real motivation to make indie games stand alone in the scene.[07:18:53] <[JJ]Albert> The open source scene[07:19:03] <[JJ]Albert> The commercial indie scene is doing fine.[07:19:09] <[JJ]Albert> Better than what it once was.[07:19:23] <[JJ]Albert> The open source scene hasn't really kicked off yet.[07:19:25] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[07:19:32] <hdanak> like, the guy who maintains freedroidrpg honestly doesn't think it's possible to make it fully 3d at this point[07:19:52] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, darn.[07:20:00] <hdanak> on the other hand, every release breaks savegame compatibility, so they can't say they're trying to be stable[07:20:52] <hdanak> but i can understand the constraints, everyone is busy with work, and it's fairly demotivational to spend the free time you have on something that probably will never take off[07:21:09] <hdanak> doesn't have that 'critical mass' so to speak[07:21:38] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[07:21:41] *** Habstinat has quit IRC[07:22:06] <[JJ]Albert> If it was a good enough engine to make another game with then maybe some motivation might grow?[07:22:15] <[JJ]Albert> I am itching to do such a thing. :p[07:22:24] <hdanak> yeah, but just look at the code[07:22:29] <hdanak> totally mess[07:22:43] <hdanak> but i really do think it can be modularized[07:22:51] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh, true. :\[07:23:06] <hdanak> otoh, I agree it should be done in a gradual way, without a sudden code shift[07:23:10] <[JJ]Albert> If someone would clean it up, then I could see someone else doing something w/ it.[07:23:18] <augiedoggie> hdanak: btw, urias said hosting isn't a problem, but he just isn't motivated to put the old content back up[07:23:28] <[JJ]Albert> Like, a motivational project.[07:23:43] <hdanak> augiedoggie: ok, let me know if I can help with anything[07:23:58] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: you think you might be interested in contributing to freedroidrpg?[07:24:24] <hdanak> since the reason I no longer touch it is partly that I don't feel like it's really going anywhere[07:24:30] <hdanak> anywhere interesting at least[07:24:57] <[JJ]Albert> I am no programmer, sadly.[07:25:06] <[JJ]Albert> So I'm one to talk. :\[07:25:24] <[JJ]Albert> I'm more interested in learning to design a game. For fun, mostly.[07:25:44] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: is it that you want to learn programming in the process?[07:25:57] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, I would like to brush up.[07:26:04] <hdanak> or just designing the game from a story-board perspective[07:26:04] <[JJ]Albert> What's it written in?[07:26:07] <hdanak> C[07:26:18] <[JJ]Albert> Ah, well I know the syntax a little bit.[07:26:50] <[JJ]Albert> a bit of storyboarding too. Although I like my idea. Design a different game as a sort of experiment[07:27:02] <[JJ]Albert> Aye, nay?[07:27:10] <hdanak> well, I wouldn't mind forking it if you're interested[07:27:29] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, well nothing serious at all.[07:27:41] <[JJ]Albert> I would give it a little bit of study.[07:27:52] <[JJ]Albert> Learn how it works, all while learning the process.[07:28:03] <[JJ]Albert> Then, maybe. Just maybe, a fork.[07:28:08] <hdanak> well, honestly I don't expend any fork of mine getting integrated back anytime soon[07:28:20] <hdanak> well, I'll do it anyway, we'll see where it goes[07:28:27] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, OK.[07:28:35] <[JJ]Albert> I think this might be interesting.[07:29:05] <hdanak> sure, i've been wanting to expand on it for a while, but my time is spread pretty thin atm[07:29:22] <hdanak> where are you geographically?[07:30:06] <[JJ]Albert> US[07:30:09] <[JJ]Albert> Midwest[07:30:13] <[JJ]Albert> Indiana[07:30:33] <hdanak> k, I'm in the Bay Area in CA, US[07:30:33] <[JJ]Albert> So, just central US really.[07:30:38] <[JJ]Albert> Kewl.[07:31:30] <hdanak> looks like they cleanup up a bit of the code since I last looked at it[07:31:45] <[JJ]Albert> Interesting[07:32:09] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: http://freedroid.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=freedroid/freedroid;a=tree[07:33:12] <[JJ]Albert> goin right now[07:33:17] <[JJ]Albert> to the link[07:35:12] <[JJ]Albert> I have seen this link.[07:35:25] <[JJ]Albert> This is the entire source package, yes?[07:35:36] <[JJ]Albert> I admit, this'll be a learning process.[07:35:50] <hdanak> yeah, just take it slow, it'll grow on you[07:35:54] <hdanak> in a weird way[07:35:55] <[JJ]Albert> I've only ever downloaded source files off of servers.[07:36:03] <hdanak> you can read it online on gitweb[07:36:06] <[JJ]Albert> Like SF.[07:36:30] <[JJ]Albert> er, SVN[07:36:41] <[JJ]Albert> Yeah, so is SF going with git too now?[07:37:14] <hdanak> i think they've had the option for a little while,[07:37:28] <hdanak> freedroid was using svn, eventually moved to git[07:37:42] <[JJ]Albert> Ah, interesting.[07:37:44] <hdanak> back when I was working on it I had to use git-svn, a real pain[07:38:14] <[JJ]Albert> I've not heard the nicest things about git from some of my programming pals.[07:38:46] <[JJ]Albert> Although maybe it was just trauma of using svn so long?[07:38:54] <hdanak> it's cool, way better than SVN in my opinion, doesn't tie you down[07:39:12] <hdanak> i really can't stand SVN, never really have[07:39:12] <[JJ]Albert> Ah, well again it's all just learning.[07:39:36] <augiedoggie> it's better than cvs :P[07:39:49] <hdanak> i mean, the idea that you have to wait on someone to accept your patches, and you can't even keep them up to date easily[07:39:58] <[JJ]Albert> Isn't cvs dead?[07:40:18] <hdanak> augiedoggie: well, I guess I agree there, I was pretty relieved when I first switched from CVS to SVN[07:40:27] <hdanak> but essentially the same workflow[07:41:01] <[JJ]Albert> brb[07:42:48] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[07:43:12] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[07:43:17] *** [JJ]Albert_ has joined #haiku[07:43:19] <[JJ]Albert> back.[07:45:12] <hdanak> lol, when I first started looking at freedroid I really only knew Java from school, had the crazy idea of trying to implement it Java[07:45:34] <[JJ]Albert> lol[07:45:35] <hdanak> i was briskly shot down by the project maintainer, for good reason...[07:45:40] <[JJ]Albert> Java is crud.[07:45:58] <hdanak> yeah, I didn't really have a clue then[07:46:09] <hdanak> I won't touch it anymore[07:46:19] <[JJ]Albert> I dunno Java, but I definitely know it's performance issues.[07:46:26] <hdanak> unless compelled by large sums of cash[07:46:27] <[JJ]Albert> I can't play Minecraft.[07:46:32] <[JJ]Albert> A simple game, graphically.[07:46:42] <hdanak> naw, that's not why I don't like it[07:46:44] <[JJ]Albert> Marred by terrible coding and an unforgiving interpreter.[07:46:57] <hdanak> the language is bureaucratic as hell[07:47:04] <[JJ]Albert> That too.[07:47:07] <hdanak> but they made it run fast[07:47:19] <[JJ]Albert> It only became popular because of the web plugin.[07:47:23] <hdanak> by now a long-running java server will probably be on par with native[07:47:34] <[JJ]Albert> One of the earliest interpreted langs to do so.[07:47:39] <[JJ]Albert> Aside from Flash.[07:47:40] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: that was the nineties[07:47:51] <[JJ]Albert> Yep. But it grew up.[07:48:05] <[JJ]Albert> And now it's learning to adapt to the open source scene.[07:48:29] <[JJ]Albert> Meh, dunno. All I know is that I don't use it.[07:48:56] <hdanak> well, I think the politics are a bit hairier than that[07:49:10] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, yeh.[07:49:23] <[JJ]Albert> Listening to a bit of chiptunes.[07:49:38] <[JJ]Albert> W/ java[07:49:53] <hdanak> why?[07:50:05] <[JJ]Albert> to listen to music on modarchive.org[07:50:16] <[JJ]Albert> They use a Java mod music player.[07:50:34] <[JJ]Albert> Just an example of why Java still lives. It's more foolproof than html5[07:51:11] <hdanak> to be honest Java is the most mindless language I've programmed in, in a sort-of nice way[07:51:14] <[JJ]Albert> I just don't like Java when it comes to desktop stuff. It's too bloated for that crap.[07:51:22] <hdanak> i can just type, without thinking, and something will work[07:51:22] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[07:51:31] <hdanak> if you try-catch enough it will all be fine[07:51:52] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[07:51:58] <[JJ]Albert> Here, give this a listen: http://modarchive.org/data/downloads.php?moduleid=81977#horizon.mod[07:52:04] <[JJ]Albert> Tell me if I'm crazy or not?[07:52:12] <[JJ]Albert> That'd make a nice game theme.[07:52:16] <hdanak> i'll be back in about 35 minutes, need to take subway[07:52:19] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, kk[07:52:23] *** hdanak has quit IRC[07:52:24] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, right.[07:52:32] <[JJ]Albert> Still @ work. Or, leaving work...[07:52:33] <[JJ]Albert> :p[07:52:41] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[07:52:46] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[07:52:47] <[JJ]Albert> It's too late for my brain to work correctly.[07:52:55] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[07:55:50] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[07:56:33] <phoudoin> hi[07:56:36] <[JJ]Albert> hi[07:56:41] <[JJ]Albert> How's it goin?[07:56:52] <[JJ]Albert> Tis goin fine, over here.[07:56:55] <phoudoin> fine[07:57:16] <[JJ]Albert> You listen to mod music?[07:57:36] <phoudoin> nope[07:57:47] <[JJ]Albert> Though y'know what it is?[07:57:59] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[08:00:16] <phoudoin> not sure[08:01:02] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, well mod music is the sorta stuff from the 90s.[08:01:09] <[JJ]Albert> When MP3s were to big.[08:01:33] <[JJ]Albert> mod music sounds a bit like 80/90s video game music. And then, it can produce some cool stuff.[08:01:53] <[JJ]Albert> There's a bit of everything to be found in this type of music: http://modarchive.org/[08:01:55] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[08:01:58] <[JJ]Albert> Oh.[08:02:00] *** phoudoin2 has joined #haiku[08:02:00] <[JJ]Albert> :([08:02:03] <[JJ]Albert> http://modarchive.org/[08:02:05] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[08:02:15] <phoudoin2> i am trying to catch up with haiku community after having RL issues. I am part of haiky devs. or was until recently[08:02:27] <[JJ]Albert> Oh yeh.[08:02:32] <Xeon3D> I call it chiptunes :D[08:02:38] <[JJ]Albert> It's a slow night, so forgive the confusion.[08:02:53] <phoudoin2> okay then i am old enough to knoW whay is Mod music indeed[08:02:55] <[JJ]Albert> Chiptunes, yeh. But that's actually a title of the subgenre in module music.[08:03:09] <[JJ]Albert> Well, now it is.[08:03:49] <[JJ]Albert> Here's a good little tune: modarchive.org/data/downloads.php?moduleid=81977#horizon.mod[08:04:39] <phoudoin2> which sw do you use to play them under haiku ? SoundPlayer ?[08:05:24] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, I'm nix.[08:05:26] <augiedoggie> I thought vlc could handle mod, but I don't know if ours has that enabled[08:05:28] <[JJ]Albert> I use VLC.[08:05:48] <[JJ]Albert> Altho I imagine there's a better player for *nix, someplace.[08:05:52] <phoudoin2> i dunno[08:05:59] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, yeh.[08:05:59] *** jjido has joined #haiku[08:06:12] <phoudoin2> most probably[08:06:14] <[JJ]Albert> Woah, another guy w/ two jj's in his name.[08:06:20] <[JJ]Albert> Er, jj.[08:06:28] <[JJ]Albert> :p[08:07:00] *** phoudoin2 has quit IRC[08:08:53] <[JJ]Albert> Ooh, timidity++ plays mod files with ALOT more oomph! :D[08:09:12] <[JJ]Albert> Alot clearer quality.[08:09:38] <[JJ]Albert> Well, the stereo is alot cooler, anyways.[08:10:59] <[JJ]Albert> If Timidity++ gets ported over to Haiku, that'd be pretty freaking awesome.[08:11:14] <[JJ]Albert> The audio handling on mod files is alot kewler.[08:11:34] <[JJ]Albert> Better than timidity++'s default midi playback.[08:11:42] <[JJ]Albert> Which is what it's really designed for.[08:13:02] <[JJ]Albert> But it seems to love giving extra muscle to module music.[08:13:06] <[JJ]Albert> From what I'm hearing.[08:19:19] *** jjido has quit IRC[08:20:54] *** rimio has joined #haiku[08:23:12] <[JJ]Albert> Wonder when hdanak will be back on? He said 35 min subway ride.[08:33:52] *** datadigger has quit IRC[08:39:29] *** Archlyric has joined #haiku[08:39:50] *** _marc` has quit IRC[08:41:07] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[08:42:09] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[08:43:20] *** datadigger has joined #haiku[08:47:20] *** kcj has joined #haiku[08:53:53] *** Xcyish has joined #haiku[08:59:51] *** TimKack_ has joined #haiku[08:59:52] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[09:00:02] *** [JJ]Albert_ is now known as [JJ]Albert[09:00:17] *** [JJ]Albert_ has joined #haiku[09:02:56] *** TimKack has quit IRC[09:02:56] *** TimKack_ is now known as TimKack[09:09:38] *** Yeti has joined #haiku[09:11:12] *** Negr0_VoP2P_LMin has joined #haiku[09:13:53] <Yeti> I am minutes away from trying to dual boot my notebook using Ubuntu 12.04 and Haiku R1 Alpha 3. I will post my success or failure tomorrow after some thorough testing.[09:14:20] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[09:14:21] <augiedoggie> a3 is fairly old now[09:15:02] <[JJ]Albert> WB, hdanak[09:15:13] <hdanak> hi[09:15:25] <hdanak> took longer than I thought[09:15:26] <Yeti> What is the latest release?[09:15:26] <[JJ]Albert> Whelp, I know I've got much to learn.[09:15:42] <augiedoggie> a3 is the latest "release", but it's a year old[09:15:51] <[JJ]Albert> I couldn't get freedroidrpg to compile, hdanak.[09:15:56] <augiedoggie> the nightlies are what most people run[09:16:07] <[JJ]Albert> Even after getting all the files required. :p[09:16:15] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: what's the issue?[09:16:47] <hdanak> I know it can be a pain, especially at first[09:16:50] <Yeti> Ahh, but alpha 3 is the current stable release. Right?[09:16:55] <[JJ]Albert> I dunno how to run it now. I compiled it, I think. I dunno, I haven't compiled stuff ala *nix console in awhile.[09:17:11] <[JJ]Albert> Last time I succesfully compiled something in nix was zdoom.[09:17:13] <augiedoggie> Yeti: sure, but reporting success/failure is relatively useless[09:17:20] <[JJ]Albert> I was really proud of myself. :p[09:17:26] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: ./src/freedroidrpg or something[09:17:52] <hdanak> don't have it locally, i can test it out in a min[09:18:02] <[JJ]Albert> Kk[09:18:15] <[JJ]Albert> I might've buggered a step, anyways.[09:18:39] <hdanak> not unlikely[09:18:42] <Yeti> augiedoggie: It would be more of a celebration.[09:19:02] <augiedoggie> ok, but chances are much better that a nightly will support your hardware[09:21:09] <Yeti> Please tell me that the current nightly build supports accelerated graphics.[09:21:23] <[JJ]Albert> Yes, that would be nice to know.[09:21:32] <augiedoggie> depends on your definition of accelerated[09:21:40] <augiedoggie> there is no hardware GL for any card[09:21:56] <augiedoggie> and very little in the way of 2D for any card either[09:22:43] *** Xeon3D is now known as Xeon3D|Zzz[09:22:54] <[JJ]Albert> Darn.[09:22:56] <[JJ]Albert> :([09:23:56] <augiedoggie> it's not really all that noticeable, maybe a bit slow on window redraws and stuff[09:24:32] <Yeti> I read on the haikuware blog about somebody ( a team of people? ) working on adding support to Haiku for accelerated graphics. I didn't know how far they had gotten since I read that post.[09:24:40] <hdanak> it that why menues drag in a VM?[09:25:21] <augiedoggie> dunno, the only time I really notice it is when I'm moving large windows around[09:25:58] <augiedoggie> and some flicker when redrawing controls/widgets[09:26:02] <[JJ]Albert> I remember that stuff myself.[09:26:14] <[JJ]Albert> Dunno what happened to that brave group?[09:26:38] <Negr0_VoP2P_LMin> augiedoggie: Haiku on an VM is hell slow. On normal Hardware it is a 100% different thing :)[09:26:49] <augiedoggie> yes, I'm aware[09:27:02] <augiedoggie> although performance in vbox has gone down since A3[09:27:08] <Yeti> augiedoggie: For the overall GUI I agree with you, but I believe that Haiku would be an awesome gaming OS due to its multi-threading. With accelerated graphics support of course.[09:27:20] <[JJ]Albert> Yup.[09:27:22] <augiedoggie> huh?[09:27:27] <augiedoggie> i wasn't arguing that[09:27:34] <augiedoggie> just telling you the current limitations[09:27:53] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, well I wasn't arguing against or for.[09:27:55] <Yeti> I wasn't arguing with you.[09:28:07] <[JJ]Albert> Oh?[09:28:13] <hdanak> Yeti: well, any modern OS support smt[09:28:15] <[JJ]Albert> Er, whoops.[09:28:23] <Yeti> Well, with anyone.[09:28:24] <[JJ]Albert> :p[09:29:19] <hdanak> actually, 'pervasive' threading i guess[09:29:36] <hdanak> as Be people like to say :)[09:30:30] <[JJ]Albert> Whelp, I got the game running, hdanak[09:30:37] <hdanak> cool[09:30:39] <hdanak> gl?[09:30:44] <hdanak> or sdl[09:30:54] <Yeti> hdanak: And that includes Haiku? I was under the impression that its largely based off of mid-90's technology a.k.a. BeOS.[09:31:23] <hdanak> Yeti: BeOS was ahead of its time[09:31:41] <hdanak> but now it's mainstream[09:31:55] <[JJ]Albert> It totally was revolutionary then.[09:31:58] <[JJ]Albert> But yeh.[09:32:14] <hdanak> and really the scheduling algorithm is what matters[09:32:16] <[JJ]Albert> Today, it's saving grace would be it's rediscovery in new form.[09:32:28] <Yeti> I was poking at the 'modern' OS reference.[09:32:59] <hdanak> the alternative is cooperative multitasking[09:33:56] <hdanak> which requires threads to hand back the execution context[09:34:40] <Yeti> That would be cool. I'm impressed with Haiku's (BeOS's) application messaging.[09:34:43] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[09:35:46] <hdanak> Yeti: you can still pretend to do that, with the coroutine abstraction[09:35:54] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[09:36:22] <Yeti> Nice.[09:36:41] <hdanak> but the big deal with BeOS was that it essentially did the opposite[09:36:55] <Yeti> How so?[09:37:14] <hdanak> it forced the execution context away from the running thread when its time was up[09:37:20] <hdanak> so...[09:38:20] <Yeti> And Haiku still supports this?[09:38:40] <hdanak> in mac os or dos+windows(early), clicking a dropdown menu would force the system to halt until the user releases the thread[09:39:44] <hdanak> in BeOS, the menu UI element had its own thread, which the OS would swap in and out of execution[09:40:21] <Yeti> This is the multi-threading I'm so excites about.[09:40:37] <hdanak> if the thread says that it's sleeping (waiting on user), the OS won't bother wasting time on it[09:41:04] *** Xeon3D|Zzz is now known as Xeon3D[09:42:00] <hdanak> that way your other threads (music, etc) can run even when you click on menus (imagine that!)[09:42:43] <hdanak> of course it's all fun and games until you run into race conditions,[09:42:52] <Yeti> The applications are awe inspiring. Well, for a computer scientist such as myself. For a general user the awe would be in using an OS that works with them and not against them (to use my own terminology).[09:43:30] <hdanak> where the OS swaps you out when you don't expect it, etc[09:44:18] <hdanak> thats why some people like to use a coroutine abstraction within a single process[09:46:04] <hdanak> coroutines are a more general form of subroutines (or procedures), where you ca essentially pause the function context, fold it up, and pass the execution back to the caller[09:47:38] <hdanak> in the abstract, another way to see it is that when you have one procedure calling another, the second one executes and returns execution -- a sort-of master-slave relationship[09:48:09] <Yeti> My thought is to create a mobile OS based on Haiku in the same vain as Android/Linux. Imagine Haiku with its more sophisticated handling of threads powering an ARM processor in your pocket.[09:48:41] <Yeti> Thanks for the info by the way. It will help in my development process.[09:48:51] <hdanak> with coroutines, two of the call each other back and forth, as siblings[09:49:49] <augiedoggie> the other frameworks caught up to beos/haiku a long time ago in terms of responsiveness, the difference is in the way the app is designed[09:49:53] <hdanak> Yeti: no problem; by the way, the last two things were paraphrased from Knuth, who came up with the idea[09:50:38] <Yeti> Seems I need to research Knuth.[09:50:55] <hdanak> i think from volume 1, The Art of Computer Programming[09:51:25] <hdanak> really quirky guy, dry sense of humour[09:51:48] <hdanak> but the books are actually very readable,[09:52:04] <hdanak> although at times he goes down a rathole[09:52:30] <Yeti> Ahh, I know who you're talking about. The father of computer science, right? I think he just came out with vol. 4 (or vol. 5?) in that series.[09:52:32] <[JJ]Albert> And won't come out again, save for the allure of cheese?[09:52:50] <hdanak> and spends a page and a half on etymology or some other relatively minor curiosity[09:53:03] <[JJ]Albert> Oh.[09:53:05] <[JJ]Albert> :p[09:53:14] <[JJ]Albert> Gee, I'm so tired.[09:53:29] <hdanak> Yeti: he did a lot of foundational work[09:53:48] <hdanak> started off wanting to write a book on compilers[09:54:05] <hdanak> recursively dug deeper i guess[09:54:12] <Yeti> I've been meaning to research him. Alas, I can't afford his books. I know him more as a mathematician though... odd.[09:54:32] <hdanak> library is where i got mine from[09:54:41] <[JJ]Albert> Good examples of what I must read up on.[09:54:54] <[JJ]Albert> And to think I'm going into computers. Sad. :\[09:55:03] <[JJ]Albert> I[09:55:15] <hdanak> would also generally recommend Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs[09:55:19] <[JJ]Albert> I'm out of my game. It's been a mind-depleting year.[09:55:30] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert : takes time[09:55:49] <Yeti> I've been spending all of my time reading G. H. Hardy.[09:56:30] <augiedoggie> SICP is awesome[09:56:30] *** [jimage] has quit IRC[09:56:34] <[JJ]Albert> Oh most certainly.[09:56:43] <augiedoggie> I still have the lecture videos downloaded :P[09:56:46] <[JJ]Albert> I am a self-taught computer user, mostly.[09:56:56] <[JJ]Albert> Hence, I got to linux through trial-error.[09:56:56] <hdanak> augiedoggie: MIT or Berk?[09:57:00] <augiedoggie> MIT[09:57:05] <hdanak> k :)[09:57:14] <[JJ]Albert> If only I had money for MIT.[09:57:22] <Yeti> Albert: From one computer scientist to another... You could spend a lifetime reading the works of other comp. scientist.[09:57:24] <[JJ]Albert> Nope, sadly I'm stuck on a state program.[09:57:40] <[JJ]Albert> I'm going to my local university.[09:57:42] <hdanak> was the first course for CS majors at Berkeley until recently[09:58:01] <[JJ]Albert> I might get into computer tech. Not sure.[09:58:09] <hdanak> then they totally ****ed it up[09:58:11] *** Nozy has quit IRC[09:58:24] <hdanak> and "translated" it to Python[09:58:25] <[JJ]Albert> But I've got to go w/ my primary courses first.[09:58:39] <[JJ]Albert> I'm on state scholarship[09:58:39] <Yeti> augiedoggie went to MIT... I'm jealous.[09:58:45] <hdanak> when the prof who taught it retired[09:58:56] <[JJ]Albert> Which allows me to jump to any state colleges.[09:59:14] <hdanak> within Indiana?[09:59:18] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[09:59:24] <Yeti> Don't feel bad Albert. I'm from a state college.[09:59:31] <[JJ]Albert> Purdue is a fine college.[09:59:33] <[JJ]Albert> But lol[09:59:33] <augiedoggie> I didn't go to MIT[09:59:36] <[JJ]Albert> I'm not goin there[09:59:42] <[JJ]Albert> I'm goin BSU.[09:59:50] <[JJ]Albert> Where David Lettermen went to[09:59:52] <hdanak> [JJ]Albert: check out MIT OCW[09:59:54] <[JJ]Albert> Someone shot me.[10:00:00] <augiedoggie> Yeti: I got the lecture videos from MIT[10:00:06] <[JJ]Albert> *shoot[10:00:08] <augiedoggie> they're free to download[10:00:11] <Yeti> augiedoggie: I misunderstood.[10:00:14] <[JJ]Albert> Oh yeh[10:00:22] <[JJ]Albert> MIT does happen to post lecture videos.[10:00:25] <Yeti> Open Courseware[10:00:28] <[JJ]Albert> :)[10:00:36] <augiedoggie> these ones are ancient though, from the 80's[10:00:41] <[JJ]Albert> Oh.[10:00:42] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:00:48] <augiedoggie> crazy hair and clothing styles :P[10:00:49] <Yeti> I guess we all could go to MIT![10:00:54] <[JJ]Albert> I could travel to the past and it'd work.[10:01:03] <[JJ]Albert> Poll our money?[10:01:04] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:01:10] <hdanak> Berkeley has it online for Brian Harvey's cs61a[10:01:13] <[JJ]Albert> Sell our houses and move into a condo. xD[10:01:21] <Yeti> I'm in.[10:01:24] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:01:40] <hdanak> the best part is, every year is identical, completely verbatim[10:01:57] <[JJ]Albert> It's as if they're computers themselves?[10:02:19] <[JJ]Albert> Also, I've found a cool minecraft mod. Computercraft.[10:02:30] <hdanak> he got his lecture notes to a fixed-point of perfection over tge years[10:02:38] <Yeti> Check out Harvard's CS50 via iTunes or cs50.tv[10:03:12] <Yeti> It an intro course, but there is some nuggets in there that are worth watching for.[10:04:48] <Yeti> Stanford has some good videos also. Especially for iOS development *shock and guffaw*[10:05:45] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:06:21] <[JJ]Albert> Isn't the iPad CPU an ARM processor?[10:06:27] <Yeti> My favourite are the how-to videos from the early 80's on BASIC programming on the Spectrum ZX.[10:06:37] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, the speccy[10:06:43] <Yeti> Nope, iPad is running the Apple A5 chip.[10:06:43] <[JJ]Albert> That system is awesome.[10:06:58] <[JJ]Albert> But is that not an ARM-like CPU?[10:07:57] <Yeti> I think it ARM based, but only similar. The differences are many.[10:08:02] <[JJ]Albert> The state program has 1 perk. As long as I'm clean record and crap, I get my basic tuition and stuff handled.[10:08:23] <hdanak> it is ARM[10:08:28] <[JJ]Albert> Besides accommodations and overpriced texts.[10:08:31] <hdanak> architecture[10:08:37] <Yeti> I don't have that advantage.[10:08:42] <[JJ]Albert> Those textbooks are expensive.[10:08:52] <hdanak> with extra simd stuff i think[10:09:05] <[JJ]Albert> Well, Indiana only has a couple memorable colleges/universities anyhow.[10:09:29] <[JJ]Albert> It's an ugly state anyways, hence "the crossroads of America"[10:09:39] <[JJ]Albert> :p[10:10:00] <[JJ]Albert> At least it's affordable mostly.[10:10:12] <hdanak> i guess that implies you can go anywhere...[10:10:14] *** [jimage] has joined #haiku[10:10:21] <Yeti> Well, ARM based. But there is a lot of stuff Apple crammed in that makes it stand on its own.[10:10:22] <[JJ]Albert> Yup.[10:10:41] <Yeti> Integrated GPU is questionable.[10:10:46] <hdanak> ARM is an ISA, like x86 and amd64[10:12:08] <hdanak> for example, both amd and intel have their own extensions on top of x86, etc[10:12:08] <Yeti> Power consumption is admirable, but not enough gain to be worth the hassle.[10:12:30] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[10:12:53] <Yeti> Hella space saver though.[10:13:00] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, totally.[10:13:14] <hdanak> for Apple i think it was more of an operational rather than technical decision[10:13:20] <[JJ]Albert> BTW, whats your CPU of choice, guys?[10:13:41] <augiedoggie> in what device? desktop?[10:13:48] <[JJ]Albert> desktop[10:13:50] <[JJ]Albert> yup[10:14:08] <Yeti> ARM. Have you guys seen the servers they're making out of those things?[10:14:13] <augiedoggie> I've had AMD's for many years now, currently a Phenom II X4[10:14:14] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:14:21] *** Huggy has joined #haiku[10:14:25] <[JJ]Albert> I am goin for AMD now.[10:14:33] <[JJ]Albert> I can't stand[10:14:36] <[JJ]Albert> Intel[10:14:55] <[JJ]Albert> anymore.[10:15:23] <augiedoggie> although my pandaboard should show up tomorrow and it'll be used as a desktop[10:15:41] <hdanak> augiedoggie: you're kidding, right?[10:15:58] <augiedoggie> nope, more like a mini server than a desktop though[10:16:11] <Yeti> Low power consumption = low heat output. They're stacking silly amounts of them (like thousands) good ol' RISC style.[10:16:21] <augiedoggie> just need something efficient to run znc/nfs/web server[10:16:21] <Yeti> Pandaboard![10:17:40] <[JJ]Albert> Kewl panda[10:17:59] <hdanak> just got my raspberry pi[10:18:07] <[JJ]Albert> Oh dear[10:18:13] <[JJ]Albert> I want that too. :([10:18:16] <hdanak> haven't had time to try it out[10:18:19] <augiedoggie> I'll probably get one to toy with[10:18:44] <augiedoggie> but I'm sick of seeing people who expect it to be a miracle device that does everything[10:19:05] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:19:09] <[JJ]Albert> But it is, man![10:19:15] <[JJ]Albert> xD[10:19:52] <[JJ]Albert> In as much as it can be used by those who know how to compile stuff.[10:19:56] <[JJ]Albert> Not too hard.[10:20:13] <Yeti> augiedoggie: Right! A computer the size of a flash drive and they want it to be a gaming computer.[10:20:33] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:20:40] <[JJ]Albert> It could play quake 3[10:21:05] <augiedoggie> barely, and that's with absolutely nothing else running[10:21:12] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:21:18] <[JJ]Albert> Pandaboard then.[10:21:24] <[JJ]Albert> That thing could do it.[10:21:30] <Yeti> Including the OS.[10:21:38] <Yeti> Catch 22[10:21:41] <Yeti> LOL[10:21:45] <[JJ]Albert> :p[10:21:53] <[JJ]Albert> I am goin AMD tho[10:22:01] <[JJ]Albert> For desktop and gaming.[10:22:06] <[JJ]Albert> And development.[10:22:11] <[JJ]Albert> Probably.[10:23:12] <[JJ]Albert> Oh yeh[10:23:28] <[JJ]Albert> Has anyone seen this game, http://www.ace-spades.com/ ?[10:23:49] <[JJ]Albert> The 3D voxel engine is completely CPU based.[10:24:54] <[JJ]Albert> I'd love to see that engine on some ARM device.[10:25:11] <Yeti> What about the mainframe/client scheme? In other words... A networked behemoth of a computer set-up at your house and a raspberry pi acting as its client. Big comp. would handle processing, pi would translate data where ever you were.[10:25:38] <[JJ]Albert> But software has to be designed for that.[10:25:44] <[JJ]Albert> Time-consuming.[10:25:48] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh?[10:26:00] <Yeti> Then you could play Quake 3 on a pi.[10:26:16] <Yeti> Cloud arch is all you would need.[10:26:22] <[JJ]Albert> Do you have a group of indentured servants to undertake this?[10:26:29] <Yeti> JuJu, etc.[10:26:54] <augiedoggie> the gpu of the pi can handle it, the problem is ram and cpu[10:26:54] <Yeti> Most cloud frameworks are open source.[10:27:16] <Yeti> Damn.[10:28:05] <[JJ]Albert> Yes but those frameworks aren't meant for casual use.[10:28:16] <Yeti> What are they up to? 1 GHz 1 core CPU and 512 MB RAM?[10:28:17] <[JJ]Albert> They do calculations, science and simulations.[10:28:24] <[JJ]Albert> :p[10:28:32] <Yeti> Neither is most of my system.[10:29:12] <Yeti> Just because it's not meant for casual use dosen't mean you can't use it.[10:31:17] <[JJ]Albert> True.[10:31:25] <Yeti> Remember, everything you currently casually use was meant for enterprise use at one time (ARPANET!!!!).[10:31:28] <[JJ]Albert> But it isn't really optimized for that.[10:31:56] <[JJ]Albert> Meh, maybe there's some stuff I'm missing. Dunno.[10:32:18] <[JJ]Albert> My body is wanting to sleep, but my brain says no. :([10:33:13] <Yeti> A mainframe/client is easy to set-up. Most of the hard work has been done via TCP/IP, etc.[10:33:47] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh.[10:34:26] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[10:34:28] <Yeti> I wonder if DARPA calls their network DARPANET since they changed their name.[10:34:51] <Yeti> If they don't they should.[10:35:58] <Yeti> I think we should all write them a letter thanking them for paving the way to the internet... and then tell them that CERN did it better.[10:36:40] <[JJ]Albert> And then rub it in their faces? Good idea.[10:37:12] <[JJ]Albert> They'll be rightly embarrassed by a group of disconnected IRC lurkers.[10:37:19] <Yeti> Of course CERN did make the LHC. No one can compete with that.[10:38:14] <Yeti> Hey, strength in numbers. I think Anonymous started on a IRC channel.[10:39:25] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, they did.[10:39:28] <Yeti> #we_are_legion[10:39:30] <[JJ]Albert> That they did. :p[10:39:34] <[JJ]Albert> Oh dear.[10:39:47] <Yeti> #expect_us[10:40:02] <[JJ]Albert> #Mankiewicz[10:40:11] <[JJ]Albert> Er, there's no such channel.[10:40:17] <[JJ]Albert> Just making crap up.[10:41:03] <Yeti> I know! it was #pissed_off_in_parents_basement[10:41:23] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:41:48] <Yeti> #v_for_vendetta_fans[10:42:21] <[JJ]Albert> #pizza[10:43:03] <Yeti> #mmorpg_are_not_dangerous_enough[10:43:29] <Yeti> #international_men_of_mystery[10:43:40] <Yeti> #virgins[10:43:47] <Yeti> I could go all day...[10:44:25] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[10:44:59] <Yeti> It's too late... must sleep...[10:45:11] <Yeti> Everyone have fun![10:45:33] <[JJ]Albert> lol[10:45:34] <[JJ]Albert> kk[10:45:36] <[JJ]Albert> cya[10:45:49] *** Yeti has left #haiku[10:49:37] <hdanak> i stepped out for a bit...[10:54:18] *** [aspirin] has quit IRC[10:54:26] *** [aspirin] 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jjido has quit IRC[19:14:32] *** jjido has joined #haiku[19:16:21] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[19:17:00] *** dcase has joined #haiku[19:18:26] *** kemps4 has quit IRC[19:18:51] *** kemps4 has joined #haiku[19:19:00] *** kemps4 has quit IRC[19:19:41] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[19:25:24] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[19:31:54] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[19:32:05] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[19:32:35] *** hamishm_ has joined #haiku[19:35:51] *** hamishm has quit IRC[19:36:06] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[19:36:07] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[19:38:15] *** jjido has quit IRC[19:39:10] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[19:39:57] *** Barrett has quit IRC[19:43:58] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[19:45:44] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[19:47:51] <HaikuUser> The wallpaper has disappeared in Hybrid gcc 4, now only blue screen[19:48:35] <[JJ]Albert> hm.[19:52:27] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[19:55:33] <HaikuUser> does anyone know when the next release should be out?[19:55:59] <HaikuUser> an alpha 4 or whatever :)[19:57:42] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:04:27] <[JJ]Albert> No clue,[20:04:34] <[JJ]Albert> prolly when you least expect it.[20:07:35] *** luroh has joined #haiku[20:08:22] <HaikuUser> Ok thanks. Just have to wait and watch[20:08:58] <HaikuUser> and keep using nightly builds[20:13:13] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[20:17:02] <qptain_Nemo> do you use them natively?[20:19:11] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:21:25] *** danielsaan has joined #haiku[20:21:29] <danielsaan> wow![20:21:45] <danielsaan> was NOT expecting so many people![20:25:10] <PulkoMandy> :)[20:25:37] <danielsaan> :)[20:26:15] <danielsaan> guys, I am no coder but if you ever want stuff spell checked or something, ping me a ping[20:26:22] <danielsaan> this project sounds worth while[20:26:25] <danielsaan> nice :)[20:31:07] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:31:20] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:46:15] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:46:30] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:48:47] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[20:52:40] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[20:52:43] <humdinger> danielsaan: If you're not a native English speaker, there may be some translation work on the user guide.[20:52:57] <humdinger> Or you could check theEnglish user guide for errors.[20:55:19] <augiedoggie> humdinger: Beezer is still using bitmap icons because I haven't been motivated to create vector ones yet[20:55:31] <augiedoggie> feel free to work on some if you want[20:55:53] <humdinger> So, if some people would provide vector icons, you'd have it use those?[20:56:03] <augiedoggie> sure[20:56:07] <humdinger> cool![20:56:40] <danielsaan> humdinger: i only speak english![20:56:49] <humdinger> I guess, I'll post on the new awakened forums to see if anyone wants to help-[20:56:51] <danielsaan> but I will take a look over the dox[20:57:05] <humdinger> augiedoggie: or do you want to start a request, being the dev and all?[20:57:16] <augiedoggie> meh, I'm too lazy :P[20:57:28] <[JJ]Albert> Lol[20:57:31] <humdinger> danielsaan: Great. Also have a look what needs to get updated. Some things are a bit behind the nightlies...[20:57:36] <[JJ]Albert> Same here, bro.[20:57:41] <humdinger> augiedoggie: OK. Will do soon.[20:57:43] <[JJ]Albert> I'm too lazy for jack.[21:02:35] <danielsaan> humdinger: i will see what I can do :)[21:03:15] <humdinger> Thanks! Make sure you'll test the guide that comes with a nightly. I think what's online is still a bit old.[21:03:29] <humdinger> I have to poke nielx to do a fresh export soon.[21:04:04] <humdinger> ... to get the newest version into the nightlies.[21:07:31] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[21:11:13] *** KapiX has left #haiku[21:11:45] <danielsaan> will do my best![21:12:08] <danielsaan> I am goingt to study now, but I will look over some dox as soon as I have some time.[21:12:19] <danielsaan> Many thanks for the welcome.[21:12:27] *** danielsaan is now known as danielsaan|a[21:13:33] <humdinger> danielsaan|a: Thanks![21:15:19] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[21:24:59] *** synchris has quit IRC[21:31:39] *** Spacewalker has quit IRC[21:32:00] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[21:33:06] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[21:43:55] *** DebianTUX has quit IRC[21:44:13] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[21:49:06] <CIA-64> xyzzy-github.x86_64: xyzzy-github * 1651dd72d9dbd14fa8e97a204b166c0f32d97e90 : Merge branch 'master' into x86_64 [4 commits][21:54:19] *** humdinger has quit IRC[21:56:37] *** KapiX has joined #haiku[21:58:49] *** leszek has joined #haiku[21:59:13] <leszek> hi[21:59:35] *** RQ has quit IRC[22:04:52] *** DebianTUX has joined #haiku[22:08:53] *** orbital_fox_ has joined #haiku[22:09:03] *** orbital_fox has joined #haiku[22:09:10] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[22:09:27] *** DebianTUX has quit IRC[22:13:08] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[22:13:35] *** robert_negro has left #haiku[22:14:18] *** tqh has quit IRC[22:17:14] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[22:18:28] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[22:25:13] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[22:25:22] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[22:25:54] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[22:30:08] *** aldeck has quit IRC[22:32:00] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[22:32:00] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[22:44:00] *** Zevs_ has joined #haiku[22:46:27] <Zevs_> Hi! Does anyone know when the next alpha or beta release will be released?[22:47:15] <Zevs_> alpha 3 is kinda old...[22:47:20] <PulkoMandy> no date set yet[22:47:36] <PulkoMandy> there are only 8 bugs blocking alpha 4, but they are not easy to fix ones[22:47:38] <Zevs_> so the nightly is the best one then?[22:48:09] <PulkoMandy> yes[22:48:34] <Zevs_> i downloaded a resent nightly, installed it to an aspire one. great stuff, but it seems that alot of libraries are missing?[22:48:51] <PulkoMandy> mh ? what do you miss ?[22:50:37] <Zevs_> i dont remember what libs that where missing, but i did try to install different stuff from haikuwares, and almost nothing would install and run[22:50:59] <Zevs_> i got firefox to work, but it is dead slow... :-D[22:51:38] <Zevs_> i even tried beUAE, but that may be an old BeOS binary[22:52:17] <Zevs_> are they fully compatible? beos and haiku?[22:52:32] <mmadia> `installoptionalpackage bezillabrowser` ... don't use any "Firefox" labeled builds, as they're extremely old and less featured than bezillabrowser.[22:53:09] <mmadia> and even though it's only 2.xx, its codebase is newer than the 3.x betas of firefox for beos.[22:53:09] <Zevs_> owb is coming soon too? :-)[22:54:43] <Zevs_> how come the nightly has so little software? i had some apt get script a while ago that would download some useful stuff. that would been nice to have in an nightly :-)[22:56:20] *** fhein has quit IRC[22:56:38] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[22:58:46] *** leszek has quit IRC[22:58:47] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[22:59:14] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[22:59:25] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:03:31] *** DebianTUX has joined #haiku[23:04:06] *** lorglas has quit IRC[23:08:29] <Anarchos> Zevs_ in order to let the download fast enough, you must download soft after installation with installoptionalpackage in a Terminal[23:11:03] *** DebianTUX has quit IRC[23:14:43] * Anarchos finds Archiving/Unarchiving BMessage very frustrating...[23:19:04] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[23:19:34] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[23:20:06] *** Spacewalker has quit IRC[23:20:20] *** sambagirl has joined #haiku[23:21:31] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[23:27:08] *** kcj has joined #haiku[23:31:32] *** drshafiee has joined #haiku[23:31:54] <drshafiee> helo[23:32:51] <drshafiee> is there somebody to have some talk about this room and its goal[23:33:03] *** synchris has joined #haiku[23:33:03] *** synchris has joined #haiku[23:33:10] <mmadia> hi there. it's better to simply ask questions.[23:33:33] <drshafiee> sorry[23:33:45] <mmadia> and http://www.haiku-os.org/about would be a good starting point too :)[23:33:46] <drshafiee> ??????????[23:40:15] *** dak has joined #haiku[23:44:08] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[23:44:35] *** swarfega is now known as swarfega|away[23:44:45] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[23:46:21] *** [JJ]Albert_ is now known as [JJ]Albert[23:53:18] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[23:53:22] *** Zevs_ has quit IRC[23:57:10] *** petterhj has quit IRC