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[00:38:41] <newbiehptouchpad> anyone here ever install cyanogenmod ?
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[00:43:46] <augiedoggie> just stick with webos, it's better than android anyhow :P
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[07:56:13] <DHowett> It's haiku_loader and not the kernel that supports being a multiboot kernel, right? ;P
[07:56:33] <DHowett> eh, either way, it doesn't do so hot trying to multiboot from EFI mode ;P
[07:57:22] <DHowett> btw, "Welcome to Boot Loader Death Land" is also hilarious. :P
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[08:44:17] <DHowett> (I've given up on the "Getting Haiku to boot" thing again :P)
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[15:52:59] <tidux> anyone else having problems using aliases in Vision?
[15:53:12] <tidux> the "add alias" button does nothing
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[16:44:56] <CIA-64> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1942 /haikuports/trunk/packs/optionalpackages/optionalpackages-0.7-gcc2.bep http://ports.haiku-files.org/changeset/1942  : Fix typo in libedit's version number
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[21:09:25] * Anarchos got only 2 errors while compiling TexLive on HaikuOS
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[21:11:59] <tidux> cool, Anarchos
[21:12:16] <tidux> have you tried compiling FonzoTerm?
[21:12:27] <Anarchos> tidux i don't know what fonzoterm is
[21:12:34] <tidux> it's a fork of Terminal
[21:12:45] <tidux> arfonzo's the one who's doing it
[21:12:59] <Anarchos> tidux why should i compile it ?
[21:13:04] <tidux> it's supposed to have much better colors in general, and ANSI color support in particular
[21:13:36] <tidux> I've been trying on a nightly from last week (gcc2h) and it fails with a jam error (don't know how to make target "all")
[21:14:03] <tidux> short version: it's supposed to make irssi in screen and ANSI BBS art work properly
[21:14:44] <Anarchos> tidux good luck for compiling
[21:14:44] <tidux> I don't think the binary will work since it was compiled for gcc4h
[21:14:51] <tidux> thanks
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[21:15:37] <tidux> good luck to you too with TexLive
[21:16:06] <tidux> I use TexLive and Vim to do my writing assignments, so it'd be nice to do that on Haiku
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[21:19:01] <Anarchos> tidux you can download my binaries on pulkomandy's site
[21:20:29] <tidux> Anarchos: are they still the ones from TexLive 2009?
[21:20:31] <Anarchos> vim works fine on haiku
[21:20:36] <tidux> Anarchos: yeah I know
[21:20:40] <tidux> it's my preferred editor
[21:20:47] <Anarchos> tidux i think so for texlive, just give it a try
[21:20:50] <tidux> it's usually the first thing I install
[21:21:12] <tidux> Anarchos: I did try, and it installed with no binaries
[21:21:26] <tidux> but the binaries from pulkomandy.fr don't work right for some reason
[21:21:53] <Anarchos> tidux they should. Did you follow the instruction on his site ? Cause i use to test it
[21:22:14] <tidux> yeah, they say they can't find mktexfmt
[21:22:18] <tidux> there's a kpathsea error
[21:22:50] <tidux> I copied over my MLA template LaTeX file from one of my other machines, and tried compiling it with "latex mla-template.tex"
[21:22:55] <tidux> that's when I got the errors
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[21:23:17] <tidux> where do you usually install it?
[21:23:25] <tidux> I did /boot/common/texlive/2011
[21:23:32] <PulkoMandy> mh
[21:23:36] <cutestuff> !help
[21:23:37] <tidux> er
[21:23:40] <tidux> /boot/common/texlive
[21:23:46] <tidux> what's up, cutestuff ?
[21:23:49] <tidux> wow, that sounded creepy
[21:23:53] <PulkoMandy> you may need to unpack some archives in the bin directory inside texlive IIRC
[21:23:58] <cutestuff> ^^ i hoped for a manual before i ask questions
[21:24:01] <Anarchos> tidux you better ask to PulkoMandy since i am compiling new versions since PulkoMandy site has been setup
[21:24:23] <PulkoMandy> the binaries are gzipped for some reason
[21:24:27] <cutestuff> but i would like to install firefox into my haiku, sadly i don't have much experience with installing stuff into unix systems
[21:24:29] <tidux> xz'd actually
[21:24:36] <tidux> cutestuff: there's no current Firefox port
[21:24:56] <PulkoMandy> cutestuff: open a terminal and type this: installoptionalpackage BeZillaBrowser
[21:24:58] <tidux> the "bezilla" package available in installoptionalpackage is the BeOS port of Firefox 2
[21:25:06] <PulkoMandy> but yes, it's a version of Firefox 2
[21:25:07] <tidux> so it's 11 major versions out of date
[21:25:11] <PulkoMandy> well
[21:25:28] <PulkoMandy> can we still call them major versions now that there is one every week ?
[21:25:32] <tidux> lol
[21:25:39] <PulkoMandy> it's 5 years late, anyway :)
[21:25:41] <cutestuff> hm, are there plugins for the haiku browser?^^
[21:25:45] <tidux> no
[21:25:58] <tidux> Flash isn't on Haiku, and likely never will be
[21:25:59] <cutestuff> if there's an adblock or noscript addon for it i'd like to use it
[21:26:11] <tidux> nope, there are none
[21:26:25] <cutestuff> my email provider uses html5
[21:26:42] <cutestuff> seems buggy in haiku browser^^
[21:26:51] <tidux> that's not going to work properly in WebPositive
[21:26:54] <jua_> tell them to offer pop3 or imap, then use a proper email client ;P
[21:27:18] <tidux> yes
[21:27:30] <tidux> I SSH to a Linux box and use Mutt to check my gmail
[21:27:36] <tidux> since mutt supports IMAP4 and SMTP
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[21:27:49] <cutestuff> first things first, i need ma firefox
[21:28:02] <[JJ]Albert> Lol
[21:28:04] <cutestuff> my provider doesn't give me imap
[21:28:05] <cutestuff> :D
[21:28:13] <tidux> nothing to :D about
[21:28:16] <cutestuff> suckers want money <_< i have none
[21:28:16] <tidux> that's disgusting
[21:28:27] <tidux> wtf
[21:28:28] <[JJ]Albert> Malicious
[21:28:32] <tidux> just get a GMail and set up forwarding
[21:28:42] <cutestuff> i'm paranoid
[21:28:44] <cutestuff> :(
[21:28:55] <[JJ]Albert> nothing to :( about
[21:28:57] <cutestuff> lemme get firefox first^^
[21:28:58] <[JJ]Albert> that's disgusting
[21:29:01] <tidux> if you're truly paranoid
[21:29:03] <tidux> self host
[21:29:11] <[JJ]Albert> wtf
[21:29:15] <cutestuff> not enuff skill yet
[21:29:20] <[JJ]Albert> tidux: ;)
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[21:30:11] <cutestuff> <<-- afk for an hour or so
[21:31:22] <[JJ]Albert> Welcome, Jonathan from WA.
[21:32:23] <tidux> wow
[21:32:48] <tidux> traceroute from me to him goes boston, connecticut, nyc, chicago, denver, seattle, belleveue
[21:32:55] <tidux> he's in Bellevue, WA or close by
[21:33:22] <[JJ]Albert> Lol
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[21:33:39] <[JJ]Albert> Washington is an awesome state.
[21:33:57] <[JJ]Albert> Twin Peaks was set there, I think/
[21:34:33] <[JJ]Albert> Speaking of which, I'd kill for some piping, hot coffee...
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[21:52:59] <CIA-64> haiku.master: axeld * hrev44249 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=d6e44a2 : Fixed BootLoaderTest build and debug build. [2 commits]
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[22:20:54] <Archlyric> Hey anyone here still running r5?
[22:21:50] <tidux> I think most people here have moved on to the nightlies
[22:22:04] <[JJ]Albert> Kewl
[22:22:10] <tidux> r1a3 was a year ago, dunno why we haven't done r1a4 yet
[22:22:21] <PulkoMandy> I have a BeOS R5 instal around, can boot it if needed
[22:22:25] <tidux> cool
[22:22:28] <PulkoMandy> tidux: there are 8 bugs left
[22:22:31] <tidux> !
[22:22:32] <PulkoMandy> fix them and we do a release :)
[22:22:42] * tidux puts on his bug-hunting hat
[22:22:43] <[JJ]Albert> I've been waiting for gfx drivers on haiku.
[22:22:51] <tidux> [JJ]Albert: what hardware?
[22:22:57] <[JJ]Albert> intel.
[22:23:07] <[JJ]Albert> And ATI/Nvidia, but esp. intel.
[22:23:11] <tidux> is there an alpha 4 milestone to search tickets on dev.haiku-os.org?
[22:23:19] <PulkoMandy> yes
[22:23:26] <PulkoMandy> go in the roadmap tab
[22:23:27] <[JJ]Albert> I own more intel crap than I wish to own.
[22:23:30] <tidux> [JJ]Albert: for 2D work, the Intel drivers on my netbook are on par with Linux
[22:23:33] <Archlyric> having a hard time with it initializing the bfs and its really annoying me
[22:23:45] <Archlyric> just keeps failing due to a general os error
[22:23:59] <tidux> bleh
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[22:26:58] <Archlyric> im sorry im just not ready to let go of r5 yet lol
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[22:28:15] <[JJ]Albert> tidux: Whelp, I'll wait. 2D is fine and all, but 3D is necessary for me.
[22:28:33] <tidux> I haven't checked out the 3D
[22:28:38] <tidux> hang on a sec, I'll try glxgears
[22:28:44] <tidux> er
[22:28:46] <tidux> glteapot
[22:29:15] <tidux> ~73 FPS with one teapot on a GMA3150
[22:29:42] <tidux> ~40 FPS with two teapots
[22:30:03] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm.
[22:30:09] <[JJ]Albert> Not bad.
[22:30:13] <[JJ]Albert> Not bad.
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[22:30:33] <[JJ]Albert> Nor is it great.
[22:30:43] <[JJ]Albert> But at least it's something.
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[22:32:25] <tidux> [JJ]Albert: keep in mind this is a weaksauce GMA3150 paired with a 1.66GHz Atom N450 in a netbook
[22:32:42] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, true.
[22:32:46] <[JJ]Albert> But does it light game?
[22:34:03] <tidux> if by "light gaming" you mean "snes emulators" it'll do that fine
[22:34:11] <tidux> again, tiny, shitty netbook
[22:34:34] <[JJ]Albert> kewl
[22:34:42] <[JJ]Albert> How about open source FPS games?
[22:34:58] <[JJ]Albert> Or PS1 emulators?
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[22:37:46] <[JJ]Albert> But y'know
[22:37:56] <[JJ]Albert> I like those spec performances you mentioned.
[22:38:23] <[JJ]Albert> I'll just wait until I order my new computer. Before I sacrifice my netbook of similar specs to yours, tidux
[22:38:57] <tidux> probably a good call
[22:39:08] <tidux> I have a big 14" laptop with an i5 and 8GB RAM as my main system
[22:39:16] <tidux> that runs Debian, not an alpha-grade OS
[22:39:22] <[JJ]Albert> I'm looking at getting an APU AMD mobo and cpu
[22:39:25] <tidux> although when R1 rolls around I do have a 30GB primary partition set aside
[22:39:41] <[JJ]Albert> What do you think of the APU, tidux?
[22:40:34] <tidux> I think it's cool, especially with all the improvements in open source drivers under Haiku and Linux
[22:41:33] <tidux> WOOHOO!
[22:41:52] <tidux> I just built a version of kermit that can send files over a telnet connection as well as serial!
[22:42:09] <[JJ]Albert> Well then, I'm totally getting an APU mobo + cpu then.
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[22:42:59] <tidux> [JJ]Albert: I'd avoid the first generation Llano APUs
[22:43:15] <tidux> apparently they ended up memory-starving the GPU
[22:43:21] <tidux> Trinity should fix that, though
[22:43:39] <tidux> especially if AMD provides Trinity support for Coreboot the way they did for Llano
[22:44:15] <[JJ]Albert> How about this one, tidux? http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.951825
[22:44:34] <[JJ]Albert> That one is within my budget.
[22:45:26] <tidux> looks good
[22:45:30] <tidux> >Llano
[22:45:35] <tidux> that might work with Coreboot, too
[22:46:02] <[JJ]Albert> Kewl.
[22:49:48] <[JJ]Albert> I must ask though.
[22:49:58] <tidux> yes?
[22:50:16] <[JJ]Albert> My budget isn't great, so I'm looking at this ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148488
[22:50:51] <[JJ]Albert> Is that OK ram, for getting a Llano board?
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[22:51:26] <tidux> you might want more RAM
[22:51:30] <tidux> it's dirt cheap these days
[22:51:37] <tidux> and Haiku can address at least 8GB
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[22:53:43] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm.
[22:54:06] <[JJ]Albert> What is the cheapest 8gb of DDR3 ram I could get?
[22:54:22] <[JJ]Albert> The most I'm wanting to spend is just slightly less than 225.
[22:54:25] <[JJ]Albert> That is including.
[22:54:32] <tidux> for the whole build?
[22:54:34] <[JJ]Albert> two sata cables and a DVD drive.
[22:54:39] <[JJ]Albert> I am leaving out a case
[22:54:42] <[JJ]Albert> A PSU
[22:54:51] <[JJ]Albert> And, 1 sec
[22:55:16] <tidux> oh my goodness, I think I may have built C-Kermit with SSH support
[22:55:20] * tidux crosses fingers for the build
[22:55:53] <tidux> ah shit
[22:55:59] <tidux> failed on the final link
[22:57:10] <helf> you can get 8gb of ddr3 for like $120
[22:57:32] <helf> newegg.com
[22:57:55] <tidux> hm, I'm having a problem building something that needs to link against OpenSSL
[22:58:04] <tidux> I get "-lssl not found" errors
[22:58:12] <tidux> but that's a valid flag for Web+
[22:58:13] <[JJ]Albert> :\
[22:58:21] <[JJ]Albert> 120 is not a good deal for me, ATM.
[22:58:21] <tidux> so ld can find it sometimes...
[22:58:31] <[JJ]Albert> Sadly, I might just have to get the 4GB.
[22:58:49] <[JJ]Albert> I'll get more RAM later when I've recouped my finances.
[22:59:14] <[JJ]Albert> Again, I've got a case.
[22:59:16] <[JJ]Albert> PSU
[22:59:23] <[JJ]Albert> Fans and CPU fan.
[22:59:37] <helf> oh
[22:59:37] <helf> wait
[22:59:41] <helf> i was looking at fast ram
[22:59:44] <helf> shit is cheap now
[22:59:44] <helf> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006126%20600006069&IsNodeId=1&name=8GB%20%282%20x%204GB%29
[22:59:49] <helf> $40 for 2x4GB
[22:59:52] <[JJ]Albert> Lol
[23:00:03] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh, I am getting cheap slow ram.
[23:00:33] <[JJ]Albert> Er, rather, 2 sticks of 2GB. But 2 sticks of 4GB each is a bit slower than I want.
[23:00:39] <[JJ]Albert> Again.
[23:00:51] <[JJ]Albert> I think I'll just get the two sticks that combine to 4GB.
[23:01:02] <[JJ]Albert> Even if RAM is cheap.
[23:01:06] <helf> why?
[23:01:14] <helf> you can get a single 8gb stick for $46
[23:01:15] <[JJ]Albert> It's not in my cheap main system budget of 200 and so.
[23:01:27] <[JJ]Albert> I most definitely need.
[23:01:44] <helf> i miss my old tower
[23:01:49] <[JJ]Albert> A sata CD drive. Sata cables. MOBO and CPU. And DDR3 ram.
[23:01:50] <helf> sold it to pay for a vacation, lol
[23:01:56] <tidux> aha, I think I was forgetting to pass -I/path/to/openssl
[23:01:58] <[JJ]Albert> I have a Case.
[23:02:06] <[JJ]Albert> PSU. Fans. Oh, and a sata drive.
[23:02:43] <[JJ]Albert> That is another thing. When I do save up money again, I'll most likely just buy a terrabyte drive. Or maybe the cheapest new ones of bigger size?
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[23:05:17] <PulkoMandy> for Haiku you need 1 or 2 GB :)
[23:07:03] <tidux> it's super speedy with 2GB on my netbook
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[23:16:18] <[JJ]Albert> Well Linux does fine at 4GB. No?
[23:16:28] <[JJ]Albert> DDR3 that is.
[23:16:42] <[JJ]Albert> Not ideal, but on the tight wallet.
[23:16:52] <tidux> Linux does fine on 512MB
[23:16:55] <tidux> Hostname: plug - OS: Linux 2.6.38-bpo.2-kirkwood/armv5tel - CPU:  - Processes: 73 - Uptime: 44d 6h 15m - Load Average: 0.02 - Memory Usage: 92.97MB/503.23MB (18.48%) - Disk Usage: 2.88GB/4.20GB (68.61%)
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[23:21:56] <helf> well
[23:22:00] <helf> you cant jsut say "linux"
[23:22:06] <helf> because "linux" does fine in a couple of MB
[23:22:16] <helf> arch,vector,debian, etc run fine in low ram constraints
[23:22:27] <helf> fedora core does /not/ like low amounts of ram
[23:23:10] <helf> the bare minimum for most OSes, these days, is 1gb with 2-4gb preferable for optimum performance
[23:23:22] <[JJ]Albert> Howabout mint?
[23:23:24] <helf> anything over that is just if you are a really heavy user
[23:23:32] <helf> mint runs fine in 1-2gb
[23:23:35] <[JJ]Albert> Also, Xubuntu seems to actually be fine with 1-2gb.
[23:23:43] <[JJ]Albert> As long as you have a good CPU.
[23:23:45] <helf> like I said, pretty much everything is fine in 1-2gb now
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[23:23:54] <[JJ]Albert> So 4GB is alright then.
[23:23:56] <helf> 1gb will be tight
[23:23:58] <helf> yes
[23:24:10] <helf> I'm running in 8gb
[23:24:21] <helf> currently using ~6gb :p
[23:24:31] <helf> but I like to have tons of crap open
[23:25:33] <helf> my t60 laptop that I'm selling has 2gb
[23:25:44] <helf> and I ran FC on it forever with no issues
[23:26:14] <[JJ]Albert> I like to use little ram as possible. Unless I'm gaming.
[23:26:18] <[JJ]Albert> 4GB will just about cut it, no?
[23:26:53] <helf> should be fine
[23:27:11] <helf> and ram is cheap and lets modern systems cache everything
[23:27:25] <helf> so the more the merrier. running in tight ram for no real reason is pointless
[23:27:38] <[JJ]Albert> Yup.
[23:27:57] <[JJ]Albert> Which 4GB is not too tight. If I use XFCE.
[23:27:59] <[JJ]Albert> Which I do.
[23:28:05] <[JJ]Albert> I care for performance.
[23:28:09] <[JJ]Albert> Not make-up.
[23:28:28] <helf> unless you have a really old system, just about everything will perform well
[23:28:36] <[JJ]Albert> Yup
[23:28:40] <helf> I dislike XFCE, but to each his own :p
[23:28:44] <[JJ]Albert> Lol
[23:28:47] <[JJ]Albert> And what do you use?
[23:28:58] <helf> openbox or gnome3
[23:29:02] <[JJ]Albert> Oh, ok...
[23:29:11] * [JJ]Albert inches away from the gnome3 user
[23:29:27] <[JJ]Albert> Although I do like openbox sorta.
[23:29:28] <helf> People hate gnome3 for usually because "its different omg!11"
[23:29:43] <helf> It does take some getting used to and can be a bit wonky about things
[23:29:45] <helf> but it is improving
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[23:29:53] <helf> 3.2 fixed a lot of issues
[23:30:01] <helf> I didnt run it till 3.2
[23:30:05] <[JJ]Albert> Hmm, I guess I'll glance at it through a keyhole when my new system is built.
[23:30:06] <helf> it was just too buggy
[23:30:10] <dreamed> mac 4 life :P
[23:30:23] <[JJ]Albert> mac 4 life minus mac os x you mean?
[23:30:25] <[JJ]Albert> xD
[23:30:27] <helf> but, really, most of the hate I see piled on to gnome3 is by people that actually havent used it
[23:30:33] <dreamed> why would I want to use a mac and not use osx?
[23:30:35] <tidux> 3.0 had this weird bug where transparency didn't work in non-maximized windows
[23:30:35] <helf> OR super heavy multitaskers
[23:30:40] <tidux> Fedora 16 was rather nice
[23:30:45] <[JJ]Albert> I guess you are right, helf.
[23:30:46] <helf> I can see it getting into the way of some peoples work flows
[23:30:54] <helf> but i got used to it and ended up loving it
[23:30:59] <helf> tidux, yeah, FC16 is great
[23:31:06] <[JJ]Albert> But we can all agree unity sucks?
[23:31:08] <helf> I'm on windows 7 right now for various reasons
[23:31:13] <tidux> [JJ]Albert: no
[23:31:16] <[JJ]Albert> Lol
[23:31:20] <tidux> Unity is actually pretty good in 12.04
[23:31:22] <helf> I dislike unity, but I'm sure it works for some people
[23:31:27] <[JJ]Albert> We will have catfights in here, I see.
[23:31:30] <tidux> all the annoying bugs from 11.10 are gone
[23:31:34] <helf> its a ridiculously basic UI
[23:31:42] <saivert> somebody think of Haiku in all this
[23:31:48] <[JJ]Albert> Xubuntu 11.10 isn't so bad on older laptops.
[23:31:48] <tidux> I am
[23:31:52] <[JJ]Albert> I'm using that now.
[23:31:55] <tidux> I replaced Ubuntu 12.04 with Haiku on this netbook
[23:32:04] <tidux> although I think I stopped over in OpenBSD land on the way
[23:32:06] <helf> I've never been very fond of ubuntu
[23:32:10] <[JJ]Albert> But, it's not perfect for slow ass old laptops.
[23:32:13] <helf> every blasted release has had weird random issues for me
[23:32:20] <[JJ]Albert> Just slightly older. Like the first core 2.
[23:32:25] <helf> I just use debian, vector, arch, or chrunchbang most of the time
[23:32:29] <helf> FC on newer machines
[23:32:34] <[JJ]Albert> I liked crunchbang.
[23:32:44] <[JJ]Albert> But, I liked to be at least summat up to date.
[23:32:48] <dreamed> I had issues with my kde install and moved back to windows 7 last week. There's something very wrong with the install though - was crashing every night (oem install)
[23:32:49] <tidux> crunchbang is preconfigured debian with openbox
[23:32:50] <helf> I have crunchbang on my old portege with the liquorix kernel
[23:32:51] <[JJ]Albert> I
[23:32:52] <dreamed> so I'm back to kde today
[23:32:59] <tidux> if you want "up to date" you can just dist-upgrade to testing or sid
[23:33:01] <[JJ]Albert> I'm glancing at linux mint.
[23:33:03] <helf> tidux, I know
[23:33:06] <[JJ]Albert> KDE is the plague.
[23:33:18] <dreamed> because why?
[23:33:21] <tidux> most Mint versions don't use KDE by default
[23:33:26] <[JJ]Albert> Kewl
[23:33:32] <helf> Mint uses a customized gnome3
[23:33:36] <[JJ]Albert> KDE is all gloss.
[23:33:37] <helf> since v12
[23:33:38] <tidux> they use Cinnamon, their own GNOME 3 UI
[23:33:45] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, Cinnamon and MATE.
[23:33:45] <dreamed> when was the last time you used kde?
[23:33:46] <tidux> the way Unity is Ubuntu's GNOME 3 UI
[23:33:52] <tidux> 4.8, a few weeks ago
[23:33:55] <[JJ]Albert> Those are the oddest bedfellows, ever.
[23:34:00] <tidux> Activities are finally starting to make some goddamn sense
[23:34:02] <helf> I just used the latest version a few weeks ago
[23:34:04] <helf> dislike it
[23:34:06] <[JJ]Albert> Cinnamon and MATE.
[23:34:07] <helf> I tried it for over a month
[23:34:16] <helf> of KDE, that is
[23:34:30] <tidux> it's too slow for my tastes, even on an i5
[23:34:41] <dreamed> it's faster on this machine than gnome2 is, oddly
[23:34:42] <tidux> I use Window Maker as my X window manager these days
[23:34:53] <[JJ]Albert> One is reinventing an old wheel, and the other threw out parts of the new wheel to imitate the other new-ish wheel. Cinnamon and MATE in a nutshell.
[23:34:53] <tidux> weird, dreamed
[23:35:02] <[JJ]Albert> Haven't used either, but they look harmless.
[23:35:02] <dreamed> I know right
[23:35:06] <dreamed> it's also more stable
[23:35:15] <dreamed> possibly it's just an ubuntu thing
[23:35:19] <dreamed> haven't tried other distros
[23:35:26] <helf> gnome2 is old and flaky
[23:35:27] <dreamed> possibly also related to the laptop hardware
[23:35:29] <luroh> heh, tried opensuse the other week, they always put together a decent KDE desktop, i thought
[23:35:30] <tidux> it's possibly a "Debian sucks at packaging KDE" issue on my end
[23:35:34] <dreamed> heh
[23:35:46] <dreamed> luroh: ya, KDE is developed on SUSE from memory
[23:35:49] <helf> I just didnt like how it looked and functioned
[23:35:51] <helf> even with a lot of customizing
[23:35:53] <luroh> man, what a nightmare... plasma crashing left and right, severe networking problems, yikes
[23:36:00] <helf> definitely subjective
[23:36:02] <tidux> Slackware also makes a good KDE, but there hasn't been a release in a while so it's a bit out of date
[23:36:05] <helf> but KDE feels like a giant clusterfuck
[23:36:11] <[JJ]Albert> plasma...
[23:36:21] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, it is the definition for clusterfuck.
[23:36:34] <[JJ]Albert> KDE - A clusterfuck,
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[23:36:37] <dreamed> kde and gnome both required a bit of work for me to enjoy other
[23:36:41] <dreamed> but kde feels a lot more consistent
[23:36:51] <[JJ]Albert> BitPuffin left. D:
[23:36:52] <helf> Than Gnome3?
[23:37:01] <[JJ]Albert> I haven't talked to that guy in ages
[23:37:02] <dreamed> helf: yeah, I really don't like gnome 3 or unity
[23:37:06] <helf> gnome3 continues the long line of no options
[23:37:09] <helf> but I dont mind it much
[23:37:12] <[JJ]Albert> oh well... mebbe later. :(
[23:37:15] <dreamed> I don't care that it has no options
[23:37:24] <dreamed> not having options can make for stronger design
[23:37:30] <dreamed> I just don't feel that it's a strong design to start with
[23:37:38] <helf> the default KDE themes/icons/everything look like a giant mishmash of styles
[23:37:46] <helf> you can fix it, granted
[23:37:46] <[JJ]Albert> Yup
[23:38:07] <tidux> I mostly use Window Maker, Firefox/Icweasel, and a bunch of applications that either run in textmode or don't really have a visible UI
[23:38:31] <dreamed> helf yeah, I won't disagree with that
[23:38:34] <dreamed> and themeing kde is nightmarish
[23:38:38] <dreamed> given it requires c++
[23:38:42] <dreamed> which is a pity, or I'd fix it
[23:39:04] <dreamed> I tried Window Maker, but had some issues with that crashing
[23:39:06] <[JJ]Albert> I'd fix it with a crowbar and C4.
[23:39:08] <dreamed> (still ubuntu)
[23:39:08] <helf> I'll just continue not using kde
[23:39:14] <helf> WMaker is basically dead
[23:39:15] <dreamed> which is a pity. I like docks.
[23:39:29] <dreamed> everything that's not gnome/kde/xfce/unity is basically dead
[23:39:33] <tidux> not really, helf
[23:39:37] <tidux> there are new releases from this year
[23:39:38] <helf> tidux, its getting some work done
[23:39:40] <helf> I know
[23:39:41] <tidux> including xrandr support
[23:39:46] <helf> but its not like much gets done with it
[23:39:51] <tidux> so?
[23:40:03] <tidux> as long as it's actively maintained and not bit-rotting, I don't want it to change much
[23:40:11] <helf> ok
[23:40:29] <tidux> if I wanted an experimental UI I'd use Unity or GNOME Shell or something
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[23:40:43] <helf> I like how people get so defensive over their chosen poison
[23:40:49] <helf> I like wmaker
[23:40:55] <helf> just saying it doesnt get /that/ much updating done
[23:41:12] <helf> I tried using the latest builds a few months ago and was having no end of isseus with dock applets
[23:41:24] <helf> but it could have just been me
[23:41:24] <luroh> xfce could use some polish but it's decent and out of your way
[23:41:41] <dreamed> the only issue I had with xfce was the desktop metaphor was really strange
[23:41:43] <helf> 'eh, I've never cared for it
[23:41:49] <dreamed> otherwise it was quite nice
[23:42:06] <tidux> helf, the big issue with dockapps is that a lot of them tie into HAL
[23:42:09] <tidux> which is deprecated
[23:42:12] <luroh> dreamed: really strange, in what way?
[23:42:15] <helf> aha
[23:42:17] <helf> that could be it
[23:42:22] <tidux> or they haven't been updated for changes in kernel features
[23:42:50] <helf> I hate the stock xfce taskbar settings
[23:42:52] <dreamed> luroh: drag and drop behaved very oddly compared to other implementations
[23:42:58] <helf> the fact it expands drives me insane
[23:43:06] <dreamed> WillUsingThePrefixCyberMakeMeLookLikeAnIdiot.com
[23:43:15] <luroh> dreamed: ah, you're right, sometimes it moves, sometimes it copies
[23:43:29] <helf> heh, isnt that a linux problem in general? :p
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[23:43:55] <[JJ]Albert> Yup, that's linux for ya.
[23:44:00] <[JJ]Albert> Unpredictable.
[23:44:22] <helf> Its vastly improved over a few years ago
[23:44:46] <dreamed> [JJ]Albert: which is why I prefer osx, it's consistent
[23:44:53] <dreamed> consistently bad in some cases, unfortunately
[23:44:55] * dreamed snorts
[23:44:57] <helf> lol
[23:45:04] <helf> its OK
[23:45:06] <dreamed> one day they'll stop fixing what's already good
[23:45:10] <dreamed> and just fix the stuff that's bad
[23:45:11] <dreamed> surely
[23:45:15] <helf> I sold my last intel apple, tho
[23:45:19] <helf> just have an old g4 I never use
[23:45:28] <tidux> does Haiku PPC work on it yet?
[23:45:39] <helf> I havent cared enough to pay attention
[23:45:53] <helf> I'd just get rid of it but noone will give me anything for it
[23:45:57] <helf> its a quicksilver 2002
[23:45:58] <tidux> I'm psyched for the RasPi port, although I think mmadia's still knee deep in kernel space on that one
[23:45:59] <luroh> helf: yeah, the expanding taskbar sucks, so do the xfce panel plugins
[23:46:08] <[JJ]Albert> dreamed: OK. If you enjoy walled gardens, then enjoy os x.
[23:46:17] <helf> [JJ]Albert, oh give it a rest
[23:46:18] <[JJ]Albert> ;)
[23:46:23] <tidux> helf, pic?
[23:46:25] <[JJ]Albert> Alrighty, sorry.
[23:46:36] <helf> tidux, I can take one. hold on a sec
[23:46:37] <[JJ]Albert> helf, forgive me. I'm not a mac fan. Tis true.
[23:46:43] <helf> its a bit scratched up
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[23:47:00] <[JJ]Albert> Actually, I'm not big mac hater, just not a mac fan.
[23:47:06] <[JJ]Albert> I do like my ipad though.
[23:47:09] <helf> tidux, its a 933mhz, 768mb ram, radeon 7500 video, ~60-80gb hdd with 10.5 on it
[23:47:27] <helf> [JJ]Albert, the iOS world is the very definition of a walled garden ;)
[23:47:34] <dreamed> [JJ]Albert: I do enjoy walled gardens. The quality is considerably higher, and there's no malware. I'm not sure what that has to do with OSX though .. surely you're referring to iOS
[23:47:36] * helf wouldn't trade his iPad 3 for anything ,tho
[23:47:45] <helf> dreamed, yeah, exactly.
[23:47:56] <tidux> I don't think curated repositories are a bad thing at all
[23:48:05] <tidux> I use Debian for my primary OS after all
[23:48:16] <tidux> I just think it's borderline criminal to FORCE somebody to use it
[23:48:25] <dreamed> I'd be more concerned about the modern chipset boot signing stuff that's come up recently
[23:48:31] <tidux> ooh yeah
[23:48:32] <dreamed> requiring certs to run a bootloader
[23:48:39] <dreamed> that's actually scary, instead of just trolling
[23:48:43] <tidux> yes
[23:48:53] <luroh> heh yeah, that's a cluster f*** if i ever saw one
[23:48:58] <luroh> mindboggling, really
[23:49:00] <tidux> hopefully the EU smacks it down on antitrust grounds
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[23:49:09] <dreamed> I hope so
[23:49:12] <[JJ]Albert> Yeh, true.
[23:49:19] <tidux> so even if the US gets shafted, I can still buy parts from the other side of the pond
[23:49:20] <luroh> yep, let's hope Neelie Kroes never retires...
[23:49:21] <[JJ]Albert> I was being stupid about Mac
[23:49:23] <[JJ]Albert> OS
[23:49:26] <[JJ]Albert> X and iOS
[23:49:31] <dreamed> it's basically taking the problem of malware, and treating it as a nail - because you have a nice shiny hammer that guarantees licensing costs and a way to lock people out of your platform
[23:49:34] <[JJ]Albert> Lol, enter key hates me today.
[23:49:55] <[JJ]Albert> My pinky finger hates me, rathre.
[23:49:56] <helf> It's supposed to be something you can disable in the firmware
[23:50:02] <[JJ]Albert> *rather
[23:50:03] <helf> but I'm sure most OEMs will neglect to enable that option
[23:50:17] <tidux> I think it's funny how all the "client" operating systems from the 90s that were supposed to be better for home users than server/workstation OSes
[23:50:25] <tidux> got replaced by those same big-iron operating systems
[23:50:25] <luroh> well, that's just the beginning of the headache
[23:50:35] <tidux> MacOS => NeXTStep
[23:50:36] <[JJ]Albert> I love mac hardware. I'm just not fond of their OS X.
[23:50:39] <dreamed> Mountain Lion does have a new signed app thing as well. Currently you can disable it .. we'll see
[23:50:39] <tidux> Windows => NT
[23:50:44] <tidux> and NT is VMS in sheep's clothing
[23:50:49] <helf> heh, mostly
[23:50:51] <dreamed> don't knock VMS
[23:50:53] <helf> Cutler was pretty epic
[23:50:56] <tidux> I'm not
[23:51:01] <tidux> I had an account on deathrow for a while
[23:51:05] <helf> VMS is an amazing OS. I dont think he was knocking it :p
[23:51:13] <luroh> it's all based on a chain of trust - you need to sign everything, kernel, drivers, firmware
[23:51:16] <dreamed> my last company was still using it .. once they got to the point where six refurbished controllers were DOA they emulated it
[23:51:19] <dreamed> heh
[23:51:21] <tidux> VMS is the only OS that has ever made more sense to me while I was drunk
[23:51:22] <luroh> and by you, i mean microsoft
[23:51:25] <dreamed> NT4 was my favourite NT
[23:51:33] <tidux> first St. Patrick's Day I was legal, I got absolutely hammered
[23:51:54] <tidux> and instead of going out and causing trouble, I stumbled my way home, sat down with a laptop, and played with a VMS shell account
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[23:52:00] <helf> heh, I ran NT4sp6a forever at work before they forced me to upgrade to xp
[23:52:12] <tidux> I ran Win2k for a long time before the XP upgrade was forced
[23:52:29] <helf> for my work requirements, NT4 did everything and was stable/fast. I didnt see the point
[23:52:39] <helf> xp was fine after sp2, tho
[23:53:13] <luroh> NT did everything, but usb :)
[23:53:27] <tidux> my mom's still on XP
[23:53:46] <tidux> I'm not looking forward to the day her laptop dies, if there aren't any Win8 compatible machines in the stores
[23:53:50] <tidux> *Win7
[23:53:54] <tidux> because of Win8
[23:53:58] <tidux> she'll hate it hate it hate it
[23:54:03] <tidux> even the desktop mode will be foreign to her
[23:54:14] <tidux> and the tech support calls I'll get...
[23:54:22] * tidux orders a pallet of migraine pills
[23:54:27] <luroh> win8 is a design study, i don't expect it to live longer than vista on the desktop
[23:55:02] <helf> they've improved a lot of the issues with it
[23:55:11] <helf> its multimonitor support has been mostly fixed
[23:55:17] <tidux> I refuse to pay for that abomination of an OS, so my next laptop will probably be from Emperor Linux, System76, or something
[23:55:41] <helf> I'll just buy whatever is awesome and fits my needs
[23:56:00] <helf> like the next macbook air that has a high resolution screen ;)
[23:56:04] * helf misses his 2011 air
[23:56:17] <helf> 2010
[23:56:32] * luroh is on a T42, ~1999?
[23:56:32] <tidux> I might get a used Thinkpad x120e and then just build a nice desktop for my primary
[23:56:50] <helf> anyone wanna buy a pimped out t60?
[23:57:16] <luroh> helf: i bet my T42 can pass right through your retina display without a scratch :P
[23:57:26] <helf> heh
[23:57:28] <helf> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helfer/sets/72157629985725944/
[23:58:05] <helf> 1.8ghz, 2gb ram, fingerprinter spanner, 1400x1050 14.1 LCD, ssd boot drive, 120gb data drive, ati mobility firegl v5200 w/ 256mb vram
[23:58:18] <tidux> no thanks, I don't like C2D laptops
[23:58:22] <tidux> they're prone to overheating
[23:58:27] <helf> uh
[23:58:28] <helf> ok
[23:58:38] <luroh> the t61 is, not the t60
[23:58:45] <tidux> I just have bad luck with these things
[23:58:46] <helf> ive never had my t60 overheat
[23:59:25] <luroh> i've even pimped mine out with a t7400 cpu

   June 18, 2012  
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